PdV to blame for Leicester disgrace
7 Nov 2009
Peter de Villiers must take responsibility for his poor selections and the embarrassment that followed in Leicester on Friday.
It’s all good and well lauding De Villiers when his first-choice side steamroll opponents, but now when an opportunity presents itself to mould an inexperienced group, he and his fellow coaching staff looked out of their depth.
The Springbok ‘second-choice’ XV were annihilated by a club side without at least 16 of their regulars, also not helping their synergy. The Bok coaching staff will point to the lack of preparation time, but in that situation the common sense option is to pick combinations at provincial level. De Villiers ignored this, and the result was a disorganised showing in all facets that led to the South Africans being out-muscled.
While De Villiers stated this tour was about gauging his next best, his refusal to pick form players from the Currie Cup has now left him with more questions than answers.
This team were led out to be exposed by stupid selections and from numbers 1 to 22 there are few success stories from Welford Road.
De Villiers stated in the latest issue of SA Rugby magazine how his technical knowledge of the scrum is the best in the Bok camp. But if that was the case, he would’ve known before this match that Gurthro Steenkamp would’ve repeatedly unbound and taken his head out of the scrum, resulting in penalty after penalty. Instead of choosing Wian du Preez – who is now heading to Munster – and the rest of the Cheetahs front-row as a unit, they were all watching this debacle on TV.
That Chiliboy Ralepelle – the Bulls’ second-choice hooker – had the opportunity to lead his country after not being fit to take part in a Currie Cup final six days earlier is ludicrous. It wasn’t surprising he limped off after 20 minutes, and he should be on the next plane home. Jannie du Plessis’ days in the Bok set-up should also be numbered as he failed to produce any leadership or grunt required. How Heinke van der Merwe was suppose to perform after not playing in six months is a mystery, and one shudders at the thought of him having to play tighthead on this tour.
Danie Rossouw was a frustrated figure with the lack of leadership, and while he tried all night, it wasn’t enough. Andries Bekker also toiled throughout, but in a disorganised side, it was very difficult. That the Sharks’ fourth-choice lock Alistair Hargreaves came on to try and resurrect matters said it all. Even against 20-year-old rookies, Hargreaves was out of his depth and he would have benefited more from an Isaac Ross-course in bulking up over the summer.
Ashley Johnson and Jean Deysel were the standout loosies, but how Davon Raubenheimer was considered ahead of Duane Vermeulen, Francois Louw and Willem Alberts is beyond me.
Heini Adams, another who can’t start for his province, struggled behind a pack being shunted around. His tactical kicking was woeful, and Sarel Pretorius would’ve been a better option.
Ruan Pienaar did nothing to show he is anything close to an international flyhalf. Worst of all was his temperament, panicked decisions characterising his play. But what can you expect when the last time he played in the 10 jersey was on 25 July? De Villiers and Dick Muir’s obsession with versatility over specialists seems to be slowly but surely ruining what was a promising career.
Wynand Olivier, Juan de Jongh, Jongi Nokwe and Earl Rose all soldiered on with little quality ball, but Odwa Ndungane delivered a disinterested performance. Ndungane’s final minute knock-on capped off why Lionel Mapoe should have been in his place on tour.
The technical short-comings, especially at the breakdown, were disappointing, but what was even more worrying was the lack of commitment and desperation shown by some in a Bok jersey.
Victories over Ireland and France were the main aims of this tour, but just as important was judging the depth of South African rugby. De Villiers should now realise that the out-of-form third-tier players who weren’t good enough before, still aren’t good enough. What a waste of an opportunity to ignore those who deserved a chance to tour.
Leicester now have the Bok scalp as theirs. However, records won’t state it was a woeful Bok side, many of whom shouldn’t have been there. For that, De Villiers and his selectors must take the blame.
By Grant Ball
394 Comments
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7 Nov 2009, 12:43 pm
#234 Slumtown:
Essh you right man. His last complete game was the 1st Lions test.
7 Nov 2009, 12:50 pm
#48 Bentoshi: “A player of colour has to play has to play his heart out to achieve what a white player on average can do.” – Put really succinctly if unintentionally. White kids (especially Afrikaners) are way more naturally gifted rugby players and hence the domination in the sport. For some reason at senior level contrary to what you say, they work a lot harder hence perform at a way higher level. Like it or not!
7 Nov 2009, 12:51 pm
i really don’t know what all the fuss is all about.leicester wont be the last midweek club team that beat a touring team ,it happened to australia and the kiwis in the past and those countries are still standing today.the way some of the blokes on here are losing their cool it’s as if it is the end of the world and that tomorrow will never comes.pdv at least experiments in club games unlike jake white that showed no respect for test match culture and experimented in full-blooded test matches.he was at the end of the day forgiven for that because he won the world cup and i just wonder if pdv will be afforded the same forgiveness one day.what will it take?…mabe winning the world cup or beating the kiwis to a pulp in nz for thge next two years.just wondering
7 Nov 2009, 12:51 pm
Earl Rose was most impressive.
Give us another one like that Earl and I will publicly apologise.
Your only weakness was consistency, now give us that.
Oh and kudo’s to Ashley Johnson too.
7 Nov 2009, 12:52 pm
Thanks PoepolPiet,
that was a simple masterstroke for transformation.
That Chilli is something ‘ey?
What a captain.
Wow.
As for those other plonkers,
including Pienaar and his geen-ballasgaffie neigings.
Bravo.
Stunned the who world with your tactical genius there
Poepolpiet.
7 Nov 2009, 12:55 pm
#253 Valkyrie: You do know that Leicester was missing their top 16 players!
7 Nov 2009, 12:56 pm
Now that you Cleared away Transformation,
could you tackle corruption please
Poepolpiet,
your genius will surely save us.
7 Nov 2009, 13:03 pm
what i cant understand is when reading some stuff here is the lack of knowledge of the game
they will shout a players name for being brilliant without really knowing why he was good or bad
i will make 2 or 3 examples why i say this
ashley johnstone , i say was average , some say brillaint
i say deysel was the best looseforward , specially for the conditions up north last night
potti i say was average , while some say he was brilliant and its not his fault
these 3 are all loose forwards , and i wont even mention raubenheimer as he is not in that league yet and should not have been there
a loose forward has certain functions
scrumming
linking with backline
defence etc
lineouts
carrying balls up and driving
winning loose balls(fetching)
so if you took those 5 aspects of play and judged it honestly then see if the player you speak of truelly did well
1) DEYSEL scrummed well got body low and scrummed wich assisted jannie
he drove and gained meters , yes lost one ball no support
defended well , tried fetching but there no loose forward of the bok team should be blamed as the ref allowed the togers to fall over and come in from side so not a fair contest
linesouts fine
linked with backline and boks started getting some front foot ball
2) POTTIE did not scrum well and like raubenheimer and johnstone his body position ws to upright and gave the from 5 no support
missed a few tackles but he did tackle well , and tried to drive with passion but he does not have the deysel alberts schalk type stregnth
in saying that he also over ran the defensive lines twice which made gaps
lineouts fine
linked with backline fine
did not win a turnover but i have explained that
3)JOHNSTONE
scrummed poorly
linked with backline fine
lineouts okay
defence not good at all missed many tackles
did carry ball up strongly and showed good pace
agreed these players have not played together before
they cannot be blammed for lineout losses as the throw in’s were not up to scratch
so when one rates a player one should look at the total picture
and so one should look at each position ,
people blame the front row and i agree they did not play well
actuslly i thought jannie tried hard and was all over but he did keep giving away silly penalties in the loose play
how can we say the front row was so useless of the 5 behind them didnt scrum that well|???
that same tiger scrum would have gotten a beating if they scrummed with only the front row like we did
a scrum has to be 8 players shoving not just 4 or 5
7 Nov 2009, 13:04 pm
at the end of the day pdv is the supreme boss and all of us and some of the supposedly superior human beings on this website will have to live with pdv’s decisions for the bok team…end of story.i did not agree with jake white’s decisions two years before the world cup but i had to live with it.
7 Nov 2009, 13:04 pm
#254 PissAnt: was his best game in some time agreed but his defence was not good
and out of position quite a few times mate
same for odwa and nokwe
7 Nov 2009, 13:08 pm
#255 Duiwel: “PoepolPiet” bwhahahahahahaha!
7 Nov 2009, 13:08 pm
#254 PissAnt: Agreed Pissant. earl made some telling runs and never looked too flapped … unlike Ruaan – what an embarresment. I´m willing to give Rose another go, but thats the problem with him as you say…next game could be a shocker and then we´ll all be baying for him to get on the plane home again eish
7 Nov 2009, 13:10 pm
I know the match did not have anytyhing to do with race but as a black man, I have to be honest, PDV cannot keep making these race consolatory selections. I am for my brothers coming through but there are some talented players, that have been on the radar for a long time but did not get a chance.
Duane Vermuelan should have been in the squad, plus Derrick Kuun deserved a run too.
Ashly Johnson and Deysal were fantastic..
7 Nov 2009, 13:11 pm
next week might be tough again because still more useless sharks to feast my eyes upon.the front-row will definitely be **** and we don’t even need to be discussing this point.kanko is probably the most overrated bok loosie in the last decade,had numerous chances in the past and for god’s sake i don’t know why pdv is still persisting with this clown.
7 Nov 2009, 13:11 pm
Pienaar was rubbish at 10. He should have gone to 15..
7 Nov 2009, 13:11 pm
The other problem is the Boks arrogance
To hardly train as a team , and think we should just rock up and beat anyone is stupid to say the least
One could see the lack of scrummaging training with our front row
There was no cohession , they got split apart a few times
Heinke has not played with any of the other from row , and also has not played for most of the year , not even a warm up game and raw into a bok game ???????
In the driving mauls we were also to upright players like bekker never getting down to help push
SO many driving mauls etc with only a few forwards from us , the rest who knows where
The tigers had their whole pack driving and playing as a unit
so in all honesty , we can blame the players true, but coaching and bad planning was very evident in last nights game
that is besides the fact that a few players in that team should not have been there
7 Nov 2009, 13:12 pm
#265 Tbozknows: At the end of the day Pienaar played with the quality in front of him
A poor scrum, slow ball at breakdowns and poor service from his srummie, so look at it in context
7 Nov 2009, 13:13 pm
#267 JL1: amen i was about to tell him that
the backline got very poor ball on the back foot
and the scrummy gave poor ball ontop of that
7 Nov 2009, 13:14 pm
there is a lot of reason for last night , i have pointed out a few , but there is many more
7 Nov 2009, 13:16 pm
#266 sharks_lover: This Tigers team played against the 3rd and in some cases our 4 and 5th best players
Jannie dup must be 3rd best
Bandise and Chilli are bothe about 7th and 8th best
Guthro is just poor
Danie and Bekker OK
Raubenheimer must be at least 1oth best in SA
Pottie OK
Ashley OK
Heinie must be 4/th best
Pienaar-well not many better flyhalves than him walking about
7 Nov 2009, 13:18 pm
Brutally honest
Send Ruan home….that oke needs to get his head right.
Raubenheimer froze badly.
Guthro….not good enough for an international loosehead
Jannie Dup…should never don the green and gold again…ever…a tighthead that cant scrum is a huge no ..no…
DMuir…..seriously think the Lions gonna rue letting Heyneke Meyer get away…..
Boks….have to get a scrum doctor…..Os or Proudfoot….or Cobus Versagie…..
We have neglected the scrums…..we are in trouble….
Frogs waiting…..
7 Nov 2009, 13:20 pm
#270 JL1:
You weren’t good enough end of story.
7 Nov 2009, 13:20 pm
#241 David: Probably TV wrong then looked heavier then 92, that aside the Cheetas scrum munched every other front row and that applied in the tight phases as well.
When will SA rugby and this nation grow up and start playing the best players. We have seen what happens with ESKOM when people are put in places way out of their depth. How many more failures, governments and expriments does this nation have to go through before we realise that race has little if anything to do with ability to perform.
7 Nov 2009, 13:21 pm
i feel for those loosies…not easy to play when scrum being butchered…..
9 and 10 on a hiding to nothing….
Never knew there was such a thing as a turbo reverse scrum…..Boks against Aussies and Leicester redefined the word retreat at snot spoed….
Appalling….bloody hell…
7 Nov 2009, 13:22 pm
#271 grant10: we need os g10 and the sooner the better.jannie dup to be shot for crimes against humanity.i mean,a th that cant scrum and still getting paid for it is nothing short but a disgrace.
7 Nov 2009, 13:23 pm
#272 NZINCHINA: Thanks for stating the bloody obvious, I am trying to make sense of it and also to blame someone or something
A couple of beers might help
7 Nov 2009, 13:24 pm
Personally i would love to get BJ and CJ e mail so i can write to them….
Dear BJ and CJ
All is forgiven…there is huge kak in bok land….
please come home urgently.
Rassie will make a plan for you at the stormers….
Thanks
7 Nov 2009, 13:25 pm
can’t we find a couple of nursies for jannie dup to keep him extremely busy…day and night.
7 Nov 2009, 13:25 pm
#276 JL1:
Or a keg.
7 Nov 2009, 13:27 pm
#179 WP Till I Die: Wikus Blaauw is a loosehead!
7 Nov 2009, 13:28 pm
To me the following bok team should have been chosen for the conditons up north,
And i know someone like grant will have a dirty thong here after
The way games are officiated up north is not the same as down in the south, also teams dont know about fetching , even Brussow last night would have been unsuccesful as teams up north ruck and maul over the ball and seal it going to ground
15 Kirschner ( should have been F Steyn)
14 JPP
13 Fourie
12 WO
11 Habana
10 M Steyn
09 Dupreez
08 Alberts
07 Deysel
06 Schalk
05 matfield
04 Bakkies
03 Smitty
02 Bismark
01 Beast or Wian Dupreez
16 Strauss
17 Dupreez
18 Roussow
19 brussow
20 Adi
21 Ruan
22 Mapoe
of course had players like BJ been available to play one could have had Smitty to start at 2 and BJ at 3 , with Smitty later on moving to 3 and Bismark coming on from the bench
7 Nov 2009, 13:32 pm
PoepolPiet,
your incisive rugbybrain
stunned the whole rugby world.
Boet, you should be President.
You’re a greater poepol than Zuma
as far as i’m concerned.
Maybe you can pull in Luke Watson,
markgraaf ,strauelli and just take the world
by storm,PoepolPiet.
Like a poep.
All promise and bad aftertaste
but no substance.
You are the strategos unique PoepolPiet
your greatness known from afar.
7 Nov 2009, 13:32 pm
#274 grant10: grant sorry boet but that comment shows me your lack of knowledge about the game
the scrum was always in **** because the loosies were not doing their job
GET IT IN YOUR HEAD MATE 8 PEOPLE SHOULD SHOVE NOT ONLY 3 OR 4
Naas actually gave a good example at half time last night , and ont could see how our locks and loosies were in bad body positions in the scrums
no forward pack would have had a chance last night if the 5 behind them dont scrum too
7 Nov 2009, 13:34 pm
grant look at the total picture boet not only things you want to see
i am not saying the front row was good not at all
7 Nov 2009, 13:34 pm
Nicks boys to claim their first scalp
against PoepolPiets spuitpoepbende.
7 Nov 2009, 13:39 pm
#281 sharks_lover: Let’s just face it our first 15 that won WC and Trinations were an exceptional side with hardly any weakness (an we jsut beat one of the worst the AB teams incidentally) now we have lost two players who are amongst the best in their postions one that can bang in kicks from 65 metres an one that can take the gap anytime.
We do not have replacements of equal ability nor will we find them in the short term so we must realise that NO1 in the workld was a fleeting moment and time to face the hard facts.
The side fielded Friday is not even a developmental side, it is a politically appeasing side that was beaten by a league team without their top 10 players. Now that should bring everyone down to earth and back to reality. Many of the players in the midweek side are good journeymen but not world beating talents, nor will they ever become one. So they got thrashed. More thrashings like that and less players wil want to play for them. Instead of having a look at soem talen we made up a team that appeased Banana Khompela and hs co-horts. That is discgraceful to say the least. But then we are gifted with organisations like SAFA, the PSL and ASA so not much to expect in time to come.
7 Nov 2009, 13:40 pm
Oh bullshit.
The scrum was in trouble cause the front
three consistet of two wannabees
and one hasneverbeen
sent to the pitch by a poepol
and trained by a clublevel trainer.
Its hilarious.
Is that what the great SA has to offer
after 15 years of transformation.
Some lost plonker trying his primary school stuff
having their arses handed to them
by a szecond strings side
the captain ducking off
at the first possibility.
Their coach an absolute
galactical Poepol with a poor me inferiority complex
with the diction and grammar that’ll make a chimp squirm.
As for ruaan pienaar.
Go play marbles boet.
At least gaffie played well
for five minutes.
7 Nov 2009, 13:41 pm
#235 Objective 101: #241 David: That’s because, between the knuckleheads down at Supersport and the dutchies down in Bloem there’s hardly an IQ that breaks three digits. They list WP Nel, on-screen, as 92kg. And no one seems to be able to look at the size of the fella and say, hang on that can’t be right. So when they compare front row weights, the Supersport calculator reckons the Cheetahs come in at around 300kgs – always a good 20 or 30kg lighter than their opponents. The same Cheetahs Supersport stats have Jacque-Louis Potgieter down as 1.98m tall. Which is odd when you see him next to Nico Breedt. Because for two guys who are apprently the same height, the camera sure does play strange tricks on the eye.
7 Nov 2009, 13:41 pm
it’s really a sad day that a bok team has to depend on a shark front row and dodgy loosies like kanko and deysel,ffs this is a povince that was the laughing stock of sa rugby for 100 years
7 Nov 2009, 13:43 pm
Just an idea, but i really think Raubenheimer needs to make the move to number 5, he’s tall enough (1.95m) light enough(99kg) as well as being quick and strong. He has a large ammount of potential – although not at 7 as he is nowhere near physical enough to make a side ahead of the likes of smith, deysel, vermeulen, alberts, potgeiter and louw to name but a few. As far as i can remember his lineout work for the griquas was alright but if he spends a few years as undrerstudy to matfield he should improve exponentially. I think that in him we could find ourselves a long term replacement for Matfield after 2011.
Last night he was nowhere, made a fair few tackles but apart from that was far too quiet.
7 Nov 2009, 13:45 pm
#287 Duiwel: im not really going to comment on stupidity
7 Nov 2009, 13:46 pm
#288 katman: Haha have you ever been into the main hall of Grey Bloem? Many peope there with more than three IQ digits. Great to see the Freestate being able to retain some of its talent.
If Grey kept their players andpassed them on they would as usual beat everyone else.
7 Nov 2009, 13:47 pm
#286 Objective 101: true but there were a lot pf problems last night , really open to see
7 Nov 2009, 13:47 pm
just maybe sa only have 22-25 good players and we all deluding ourselves thinking that we have all these wonderful players like deysel,potgieter,stegman and others who are nothing but super14 players for all the hype. just maybe you only need 22players to win a world cup..just maybe.
7 Nov 2009, 13:48 pm
The sheer genius of PoepolPiet,
have’nt seen a side moer naam weg like that
in years.
Noticed he hasn’t been available for comment.
Or that great captain Chilli.
You bcan run oh greatPoepol
but you can’t hide.
More games to be lost ,boet.
7 Nov 2009, 13:49 pm
#292 Objective 101: decimals don’t count, remember.
7 Nov 2009, 13:52 pm
SL,
great,what a relief.
even better,
you shouldn’t comment at all.
Most of the Sharks on the pitch last night
looked pathetic.
The scrummaging or lack of it was the loosies fault.
Wow,
you should contact Poepolpiet for a job.
You’re just what he is looking for
7 Nov 2009, 13:53 pm
gotta luv the sharks fans….scrum in turbo boost reverse…and they blame everyone except the props…..
None so blind as those that will not see….
Jannie Dup….Fark me man…pap snoek!
Guthro…jelly baby!
J Smit…tele tubbie….
French front row licking there lips….
But blame it on the a bekker…Raubenheimer…anyone but the slapgat,weak kneed.jelly baby so called props….
7 Nov 2009, 13:53 pm
#296 katman: Yep they do not. I am not an ex Grey (can’t spek the crunchie lingo) but have to recognise that as a school they have both brain and brawn. They are unbeatable at most sports and they have a huge number of As so they must be doing something right.
7 Nov 2009, 13:54 pm
then i know nothing about the game??
LOL
I know you get moered in the scrums you in the kak….that i farken know!!!!
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