Bittersweet blow for Boks
8 Nov 2009
Chiliboy Ralepelle and Gurthro Steenkamp have been ruled out for the rest of the European tour due to injury.
Ralepelle, the South Africans’ midweek captain, left the field in the 20th minute of Friday’s game against Leicester. It’s yet to be confirmed whether the foot injury is the same that sidelined him for the back end of the Currie Cup, and he will see a specialist on his return to South Africa.
On the back of a poor performance against the Tigers at scrum time, Steenkamp also returns from England having suffered a knee injury. Jannie du Plessis is also reported to have a hand injury, but at this stage will remain with the touring party.
Cheetahs duo Wian du Preez and Adriaan Strauss, who should have been included on this tour ahead of Steenkamp and Ralepelle by weight of performance in the Currie Cup, will now join the Boks.
The addition of Du Preez and Strauss should bolster the South Africa XV scrum significantly, but it will be interesting to see whether the coaching staff persists with the Heinke van der Merwe tighthead move if Du Plessis’ injury is serious.
The call up should also see the Free State pair warm the bench in the upcoming Test against France. Strauss played for the Boks last season while Du Preez has trained with them before. They’d be the natural selections given their experience, but it will be interesting to see whether Peter de Villiers picks them ahead of Bandise Maku and Van der Merwe.
Maku has battled for game time at the Bulls in 2009 while Van der Merwe is coming off a serious injury and did not play for the Lions in the Currie Cup.
It makes sense to pick Strauss and Du Preez, but it also raises the question of why they weren’t selected in the first place.
213 Comments
7 Nov 2009, 21:55 pm
and this a bittersweet blow becuase ?????
7 Nov 2009, 21:56 pm
Hallelujah
7 Nov 2009, 22:05 pm
What’s obvious is that PdeV has considered Wian and Adriaan as being Bok contenders and not part of his experimental dirt track side.
7 Nov 2009, 22:07 pm
Sorry for the ones injured but this is good news. A. Strauss and W.Du Preez should have been in the team last night already. Many others too. Just pleased that they will be going over. Struass too should start as hooker in the next Dirt Tracker game ahead of Maku he is way, way better. Maybe he even makes the bench for the Boks too.
Also H. Van der Merwe as good as he is should never have been on this tour with no game time at all. Let W. Du Preez play.
7 Nov 2009, 22:07 pm
Now we just need certain backline players to get injured and sent home to be replaced by better players and we will have a decent tour.
7 Nov 2009, 22:08 pm
these ‘injuries’ couldn’t have come at a better time..
7 Nov 2009, 22:09 pm
#3 David: Makes you wonder David. These players should have been playing there last night already.
Just logged in quick to post there. Cheers David out of here now.
7 Nov 2009, 22:12 pm
Could not have planned it better after the diabolical scrumming on Friday. WP Nel unlucky.
7 Nov 2009, 22:15 pm
shameless repost: i have one last post regarding this game. if we look back on some of the great tours of the UK and Ireland in the past, such as the grand slam winning Aussies in 1984 and the All Blacks in 1978, you will notice that they too lost to club sides. does this make them “a disgrace?” in fact, the Aussie side of 1984 is recongnised as one of the best ever. yet they lost 4 (count em) games to club sides… so lets stop being pathetic and using this as a platform to attack PDV who thus far this year has not let us down in the international area. post over.
7 Nov 2009, 22:16 pm
I feel bad for the guys,injuries are always a terrible thing but I think Karma played a hand here because they both deserved to be there in the first place..
7 Nov 2009, 22:20 pm
Most of you guys are ignoring the obvious. Wian and Adriaan have always been in line for the Boks whilst the kids in the midweek team are possibilities for post 2011.
7 Nov 2009, 22:28 pm
Everybody is talking about 2011,thats still a long time away.. We still have to get through a gruelling 2010 schedule as well as Super 14,Currie Cup etc as well as the Tri Nations in 2011,anything can happen to our top players,surely we would want to develop the next best because God forbid something happens to John,Victor etc we have a plan B. Lets worry about post 2011 after the World Cup..
7 Nov 2009, 22:31 pm
#1 mbaxman93: Its bittersweet because Ralepelle is going home ( shouldnt be there in the first place following so close on his injury with no game time for weeks and being way below the 4th selection for hooker).
Bittersweet because Wian du Preez deserved to be there. Bittersweet because Adriaan Strauss deserved to be there and may I add ditto for Deysel. Like the curse of Tutankamen PDiv has brought a curse upon himself that seems to be writing all his wrongs, pity about Gurthro (but really he was poor at scrumtime) and pity about Spies. Hence the bitter.
Simple my old fruit! Hopefully Jannie goes home and they bring Wp Nel over. Justice 4 all heheh.
7 Nov 2009, 22:34 pm
#11 David: Adriaan is only 24, he will most definitly be able to play post 2011. Unless he gets injured consistently of course
7 Nov 2009, 22:35 pm
#9 AndrewBK: If they lost after a great game, no. It would be fine. But that scrum was pathetic.
7 Nov 2009, 22:45 pm
I broke out laughing when Chilli got injured… again. Hey, I think he’s a fine player, but everyone with any sense knew he wasn’t ready!! **** and PDV knew better than us, right.
7 Nov 2009, 22:46 pm
I am 100% sure Jannie Poep’s hand is shattered and he needs to go home.
WP Nel – get on the plane.
7 Nov 2009, 23:02 pm
well at least we can blame injuries to key personnal if we lose any more games..
7 Nov 2009, 23:07 pm
I hope Wian du Preez ans Adriaan Strauss make to the Bok bench next week! As much as I am pro transformation, Maku needs a full season or two of regular action in the Super 14 and Currie Cup, before being considered for the senior Bok team. That’s why I think he should move to the Lions, as he will not be a regular at the Bulls.
7 Nov 2009, 23:17 pm
#19 Mbhubesi: Agree, the bulls have three capable hookers, and maku will do well to go to a union where he can push for a starting berth. so many players in this country stagnate by signing onto succesful teams, instead of teams where they can get realistic amounts of game time.
7 Nov 2009, 23:26 pm
jannie pap broek bust his hand and Odwa pulled a hammie. Wp Nel and lionel Mapoe to get on the next plane north
8 Nov 2009, 00:01 am
Justice!
8 Nov 2009, 00:05 am
Good riddance,
I wrote on Thu that both are in danger of breaking their necks if they’ll attempt to thrust straight at the engagement.
Well, they didn’t so my concerns were dispelled
Adriaan and Richardt Strauss, Leibenberg, Kuun and the GL hooker all held their own comfortably againg Bismark Dup and don’t need any credentials from this Blog, Gary Botha is in SA and available too.
8 Nov 2009, 00:06 am
Thank you Lord!
8 Nov 2009, 00:10 am
did jannie dup hurt his hand picking his gumshield out of his arse I wonder…
8 Nov 2009, 00:10 am
If Adriaan Strauss has any ounce of a self respect and esteem, he mustn’t agree to be Maku’s back up off the bench.
After all, this is exactly the reason why he left the Blue Bulls in 2006
8 Nov 2009, 00:12 am
#25 gunther:
I think that was Steenkamp actually after he was whacked by Nel from the Cheetahs last week.
8 Nov 2009, 00:18 am
Rallepelle, Potgieter, Bandise Maku,Francois Hougaard, Heini Adams…these players have been chosen to play for the boks. Now just look back. These players played for the Bule Bulls in the Currie Cup, for a Blue Bulls side without their Bok players, and if I remembered, it was a Bulls side that ended 5th on the log, without their Bok players, while teams like the Sharks and WP were above them at that stage. So why choose these players, when they couldn’t even make the semi’s by themselves. This is one factor that will cause the downfall of SA rugby. Players like Francois Louw, Wicus Blaauw, Duane Vermeulen, Tiaan Liebenberg, Jean Deysel, Ryan Kankowski, Joe Pitersen etc. have been playing their hearts out for a couple of seasons, AND they are better then the current players in the squad, so play weren’t they chosen??? These talented players will get fed up with the current structure in SA Rugby, and they will leave the country. Anyone that wants to differ from me, please do so, but this is a FACT! I have never seen such poor selection in my ENTIRE LIFE!!! It is ridiculous!!! Absolutely pathetic!!!
8 Nov 2009, 00:24 am
#28 Jeantji:
Old story, there are 14 new SA players in Europe this season you never heard their names, they saw the broader picture
But that’s the SA reality
8 Nov 2009, 00:29 am
The rugby gods this year seem to have a few tricks up their sleeves to set things the way it should have been in the first place.
Remember how Brussow got into the tests against the Lions by accident!
Remember how Jaque Fourie finally became first choice no 13?
Morne Steyn was also not PdV’s first choice no 10?
But alas – some television character (Yster Swart) always said: Mense wat dink hulle is so donners smart is nie altyd so donners smart nie!
8 Nov 2009, 00:30 am
#28 Jeantji: You are dead right but sad as is to say, performance in the Currie Cup comp, good or bad does not seem to count when it comes to selection of the Bok side (eg. Steenkamp et al).
8 Nov 2009, 00:33 am
#26 Hondo: Dude tell your employer that and see what happens. If Strauss has any ambition to be a bok he will do as told.
He is a decent player, best hooker available not sure about, but certainly a good backup.
5. Troedels: Who do you want injured? Steyn and De villiers arent going to play so I am not sure which guys you want there?
8 Nov 2009, 00:42 am
Big blessings in disguise. Wian Dup and Adriaan Strauss you deserve it on merit.
Jannie Dup must just do the right thing and convince all that his hand is f*cked so WP Nel can join the party.
8 Nov 2009, 00:52 am
#28 Jeantji:
Dude, don’t include Potgieter and hougaard with the other names.
no one expects the Ralapele’s et al there, bulls fans included.
But let’s just be clear on one thing.
S14 is a generally regarded as a way better guage of ability than CC. And all those WP,cheetah and Shark names where nowhere when it mattered. And surely you are not suggesting that a meagre 4 extra Currie Cup log points make the WP players super chmps all of a sudden?
Nonetheless,personally I would have rested the entire contingent of senior Boks and just selected genuine “form” CC players, again, with genuine ability to play Bok rugby longterm. Included in that group would be the 2nd tier Boks who possibly haven’t played as much.
8 Nov 2009, 00:54 am
the entire situation could get much worse.
The Cheetah front row end up making it…..and our scrum still takes a beating.
imagine that.
8 Nov 2009, 01:00 am
#34 Brigadier Van Zyl:
I am sure PDV would as well but I think there is pressure from above for him to maintain his winning streak we won all our gaqmes last year this NH tour is a bit of a waste after such a long season. This should be a grooming tour for the upcoming players (alot left behind) and cementing for the fringe.
I am glad we have some decent back up and thats what we needed
8 Nov 2009, 01:15 am
#35 Brigadier Van Zyl:
The Cheetahs front row donnered the Sharks front row and the gave the Bulls front row something to think about.
So if the Cheetahs/Bok front row get donnered as you say, at least we’ll know that it could have been worse. But I doubt that will happen with them in the mix.
That front row from Bloem is presently the best around.
We have to get ball on the front foot and having Chiliboy and Gurthro out is an opportunity to show the Frogs some other dynamite. More dynamic dynamite. More donner them dynamite.
8 Nov 2009, 01:16 am
zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz time…
8 Nov 2009, 02:26 am
A blessing in disguise for the boks, but as a prop myself, I do feel sorry for Guthro. He is being unfairly scapegoated. Many people misunderstand a props role in the scrum. The prop is the power interface, he channels the entire packs power including his own. The ENTIRE pack. Looking at you Ashley, Dewaldt and Davon.Guthro cant take on a entire pack of forwards by himself. Daniesaurus may be strong physically, but is he he a strong scrummaging forward? No, he isn’t. As for Andries, he needs to work on tight play drastically if he wants to become a international level lock.
8 Nov 2009, 05:38 am
best news ever
8 Nov 2009, 07:18 am
#32 armchair coach:
He can do what his cousin Richardt did: bolt for a greener pastuer!
Strauss doesn’t even have a Boks contract, so your assertion of PdV to be his employer is a false one
In terms of rugby, he doesn’t need to show anything, he already destroyed Bismarc Dup at the CC Semi Final.
8 Nov 2009, 07:18 am
finallyy justice. God is Great!
Chilly and Gurthro should neverr have being on the train.
Has Chilly EVER played 80mins game??
8 Nov 2009, 07:25 am
#16 Bouts:
Please tell us WHEN during the last 3 years Chiliboy WAS actually ready?
8 Nov 2009, 07:32 am
#42 greatest13gerber:
Not in the last 3 years at a First Class rugby, no
He played 30 minutes against the B&ILs at Ellis Park in the 3rd Test, the Lions popped him up 3 times and then he retired to a static role and was replaced by Du Plessis.
8 Nov 2009, 08:04 am
Sorry to say it, but this seems to be the workings of divine providence. The two players in question cheapen the Bok jersey and are going back home which is where they should have been all along.
8 Nov 2009, 08:14 am
Never knew a damaged ego could lead to being sent home. Must be a very serious “injury”.
8 Nov 2009, 08:24 am
Gurthro has been IMMENSE in the every aspect of the game (bar a few scrums) this very long season for the Bulls in both the S14 and CC… scrumming next to the ‘purportedly’ weak Kuun… so it’s a tad unfair to be calling him a ‘quota’… the ‘chosen’ one on his inside however… don’t make me laugh… one day someone like him is going to get seriously injured thanks to the selectors!
8 Nov 2009, 08:27 am
#47 bryce_in_oz:
At least he has been the first choice for his S14 cup winning province… and IMO at least in the top 4 LH’s in the land with a few solid caps behind him… bring on Wian…
8 Nov 2009, 08:31 am
Hooray finally some players who actually deserve to be there.
8 Nov 2009, 08:37 am
FFS I am so tired of what a lucky little ******* PDV is. He always puts the players that originaly deserved to be in the team in, and then he gets the credit for “finding” them! Nevermind the media and us fans screaming at him all along to put them in, he gets lucky that his little butt-suckers get injured and he comes out looking like the hero.
Examples are:
Morne Steyn & Ruan Piennar
Brussow wasn’t even in the Lions squad till Burger’s injury
Adi Jacobs started over Fourie before his injury
He wanted Jantjies to be our fullback till he got injured
Deysel in for Smith and Spies absence – watch how well Deysel is gonna do.
And now this! PDV is the luckiest prick of all time!
8 Nov 2009, 09:13 am
What is all the fuss?
Face facts, the SA first XV is that, the 2nd, 3rd, 4th is not.
South Africa is kidding if we think there is real depth.
8 Nov 2009, 09:18 am
Poll needs one more option
It was a run for players who do not deserve test caps
8 Nov 2009, 09:19 am
Guys maybe I’m wrong but I suspect the problem does not really lie so much with the individual players (Chile worries me though) but more with the coaches. The FS front row was nothing special until Os got involved and then very quickly they were beasting just about everyone, including Beast. Sticking my neck out I would say Chris Jack did a similar thing at WP, not only adding power and effort but mentoring the younger floaters and glory boys. His influence lasted after he left but waned, ultimately costing WP a place in the CC final.
So, we need an outstanding front row coach (OS?) and for more players to stay in the Bok mix, not be plucked out of obscurity and injury and jammed into a makeshift team.
A flier: what about F Hougaard to be groomed as back up for Morne Steyn.
8 Nov 2009, 09:25 am
#39 fran1807: Agree except for one little detail!
Guthro got pummeled,in the final too, with both Vic and Bakkies behind him, add Spies, Rossouw, and Potgieter!!
Guthro isn’t the 2nd best loosehead in SA currently, and that’s fact!!
8 Nov 2009, 09:31 am
#48 bryce_in_oz: And your point is what actually??
You think Wian is a weaker option than Gurthro?
Oh dear, the Cheetahs front row destroyed most scrums in the CC, and they didn’t have bakkies, and Vic behind them, just a very well coached, and cohesive scrum
8 Nov 2009, 09:35 am
rugby writer is the biggest prick of all time
Gurthro Steenkamp and Chili Boy Ralepelle were both enshrined Blue Bulls Bok’s since 2005 or thereabouts discovered by Jake the Fake
Chili Boy has been groomed by the rugby guru’s of this country as J. Smits successor since junior level and Gurthro Steenkamp has been regarded as the best LH in the country in the tight loose mold same as John Smit along with Beast since 2007 so even if it were Jake White as coach those two would have been in the party to begin with.
Just because some pricks in this country have unparalleled prejudice eating up their brains since childhood don’t make these selections any more lucky or enlightened than they like to dream about.
Pdv is quite aware of who the best up and coming players are and who he would like to put in position but just like Bismark du Plessis and Frans Steyn were ‘discovered’ by Jake during Wc 2007 because Pierre Spies was withdrawn with roids clots and Jdv went down injured, so too do the cream players rise to the occasion when the selections take care of themselves.
8 Nov 2009, 09:46 am
#55 Cheetah 4 Eva:
Not at all mate… don’t get your Oranje knickers in a knot… I’ve rated Wian for quite some time and was chuffed when he (and Liebenberg) were included in the 2007 RWC extended squad… the point was simply that some are being quite harsh towards Gurthro… a bloke that has been the first choice for an entire season in his double CC and S14 winning team… simple as that…
8 Nov 2009, 09:49 am
#56 skopskiet:
Maybe Jake the Fake but PDV can only win with Jake the Fakes core team. The minute PDV selects a team without the CORE of Jakes team they get done by a CLUB team.
Anyway it augurs well for the future. PDV has proven that quotas, favoritism and plain politics do not cut it. Pretty much the same way Jake the Fake did.
Tell the admin / politicos to go donner themselves because they know absolutely Jack Sheeet about rugby.
8 Nov 2009, 09:50 am
#51 oodles: There is real depth Oodles, but the right players need to be picked! The following players in back up are right up there, except in certain positions!
1. Wian, Heinke, Blauuw
2. Strauss, Liebenberg
3. WP Nel, Kevin Buys, Pat cilliers
4. Sykes, Anton van Zyl, Flip vd Merwe (a gap here)
5. Bekker, David de Villiers, Muller
6. Stegman, Louw, Grobbelaar
7. Vermeulen, Deysel
8. Alberts, Johnson,Potgieter,Ernst Joubert, Johnson
9. Sarel Pretorius, Jano Vermaak, Dewaldt Duvenhage, Mc Leod
10. JL Potgieter, Lionel Cronje, Sias Ebersohn (big gap)
11. Nokwe, vd Heever, Mvovo, JJ Engelbrecht
12. Robert Ebersohn, Bosman, le Grange, Grant
13. Hollenbach, Newman, Uys,
14. Maoe, Basson, Demas
15. Kirchner, Pieterson
Add to that some real talent overseas, and in the under 21 ranks, and there is more than enough depth, it’s the selection of the right combinations that will be the real question!
8 Nov 2009, 09:54 am
#57 bryce_in_oz: Quite chilled mate, was just asking, not knotting my knickers at all!
Feeling a bit abrasive this morning?
8 Nov 2009, 09:59 am
that club team front row would have drilled our or Jake the Fakes first choice front row. We damn lucky it weren’t Beast Bismark and Smit packing down against that Italian Stallion prop and his mates because they would have been done in just the same as our other seasoned Jake the Fake stalwarts like Gurthro Chili and Jannie pup.
In fact I fear we in for much of the same with our Jake the Fake core team come next Friday in Toulouse.
8 Nov 2009, 10:00 am
#60 Cheetah 4 Eva: #60 Cheetah 4 Eva:
Nope mate… barmy evening here… Riesling in hand… and watching the replay of the greatest heavy-weight in Mixed Martial Arts 2nd round knock-out and re-emergence on the scene…
You can see it on mmascraps (dot) com…
Go Strauss and Wian!
8 Nov 2009, 10:07 am
#61 skopskiet: Front row has been faking it for a while. As all good things, they come to an end.
8 Nov 2009, 10:08 am
Take Matfield and Botha out of the scrum and the pack folds like a cheap deck of cards.
8 Nov 2009, 10:09 am
The scrumming was atrocious and the players and coaches must all take the blame.
But despite the player’s failings, everyone needs to acknowledge the power of combinations and continuity.
Just like a centre pairing, a halfback pairing, a loose trio, a back three etc. a pack needs to scrum together as a unit.
The pack needs time to do this, both in practice and match settings.
These guys had never scrummed together properly.
Some of them were playing together for the first time.
The front five, in theory, should’ve gone well as 1, 2 and 4 are all Bulls and 1 to 5 have all been in the Springbok set-up for some time.
But the loosies were all new to each other and to the Bok set-up, so the pack was always going to be up against it.
That said, in terms of PDV’s initial objectives for this tour, there is some success in the form of Ashley Johnson.
I believe he’s a real find and well suited to the game on northern hemisphere fields.
Frankly, I’d consider him in the Bok 22 mix for the game against Italy.
8 Nov 2009, 10:15 am
#61 skopskiet: Oh so after claiming that the past success has had all to do with PdV and nothing to do with Jake, you want to go blaming the **** up on Jake? Sounds very similar to the government and their tendency to blame stuff on apartheid 15 years after the fact….
When Jake was coaching, his scrums werent going backwards like that mate. That was ALL PdV’s chickens coming home to roost for just downright shoddy recognition of talent and his refusal to recognise form. PdV is NOT a great talent scout.
Hell the fact that it took so long and so many injuries for him to finally get Brussow in ther says it all – and then he wanted to take him out of the first team again! He needs a hat with those slap hands on it that slap him every twenty seconds to get him back to reality.
8 Nov 2009, 10:19 am
#56 skopskiet:
What an idiot you are. For one, it is preposturous to think that Chilliboy could come even close to bringing the leadership that Smit does (or Matfield for that matter). Jake had to put them in, PDV WANTS to. We all know Gurthro is not the best LH in the country. Wian and Blaauw are both way more effective. And typical idiot arguement, saying I’m “prejudiced”, for what? Becuase I insulted PDV? Where did I mention ANYTHING about race? You obviously choose not to argue with rugby facts, but with calling me prejudiced. You can’t deny that almost every great find by PDV has been because of injury to his favourites. JW didn’t FIND Frans Steyn becuase of JDV’s injury you stupid idiot. JW knew how good Frans Steyn was, but with James at FH, JDV at CT, and Percy at FB, there was no place for him, so JW had to put him on the bench. This as opposed to PDV not even putting Brussow in his original squad. This as opposed to him leaving out Wian du Preez who has destroyed his opponents scrums for a guy who hasn’t played in half a year. This as opposed to probably the most in-form hooker in the country not even making the squad behind 2nd and 3rd choice hookers. You my friend need to catch a wake up
8 Nov 2009, 10:20 am
It’s a win win situation really.
Those who shouldn’t have been picked in the first place are going home and those who should have been picked are rightfully joining the Boks.
8 Nov 2009, 10:21 am
and here you have cheetah4eva suggesting J. Muller should still be a back up 2nd row option, haven’t we tried that failed experiment time after time after failing time again and again and again already?
Only answer is to blood new up and coming players and stick with them you don’t create world beating players in one trial experiment, you identify the players that can do the business early on then you mold and develop them into a combination. What they done to Pienaar destroying his confidence like that is next to criminal.
8 Nov 2009, 10:34 am
yeah you are prejudiced for sure rugby writer both Gurthro and Chili boy where in Jake the Fake’s team before and would have both been in whether you agree with them or not just as they were in 2007. Furthermore I have witnessed you calling Pdv the ‘luckiest little *******’ not once but a few times already, so pretend all you like but your prejudice ooze’s out your brain whether you intend to expose it or not.
8 Nov 2009, 10:40 am
Old skoppie’s still frothing at the mouth about Jake ‘the Fake’ (wasn’t it Snake?). Things never change for small minded bitter people, I guess.
It’s time to let go skoppie, release all that built up tension.
8 Nov 2009, 10:42 am
#69 skopskiet:
Yet you know I am correct and you don’t stand a chance in debating the facts I’ve presented, so you persist in calling me “prejudiced”. Yes, I’ve called SNor a lucky little ******* a few times, why is that? Maybe – Just maybe – It’s becuase…he is infact…wait for it… a lucky little *******? I mean, I haven’t lied about anyhting and all my facts were accurate. You’re only arguement is that I hold a prejudice. Haha, idiot. This site is about rugby. If you want to talk politics go to news24 or something
8 Nov 2009, 10:43 am
Its funny how it is important to protect the confidence levels of every white player in country the but black players must learn to deal with it. Hats off to Earl Rose… 10/10 for tenacity… Imagine if he had the same protection from PDV as Ruan… WE would then really discover who is the Tiger Woods of rugby… It also amazes me how every coach in the country is afraid to play him at FH… but would throw him in teh scrum if they could… Long Live Earl Rose
8 Nov 2009, 10:44 am
#70 wooden spoon: How are you young man
8 Nov 2009, 10:46 am
#73 Langenhoven:
I would argue with you, but people like you are just a waste of matter
8 Nov 2009, 10:47 am
#73 Langenhoven: Hello Langers, where have you been lately, attepting coup d’etats on other racist blogs? Veni, vidi but not quite vici eh?
Lol, hows London these days?
8 Nov 2009, 10:48 am
#74 rugbywriter: I think you have an inferiority complex… maybe thats the reason why can’t argue with me… BUt thanks for elevating me to King of the blog
8 Nov 2009, 10:49 am
Well got to go out for lunch, lovely chatting with you chaps. I’m just loving the shlimp flied spling lolls out here, later.
8 Nov 2009, 10:52 am
#75 wooden spoon: There is always a warm place to have a drink in London… its like the sunny days in Africa even when its snowing… and BTW why do you guys keep giving me a nick when you went through all the effort to expose me…Shaun is the name
8 Nov 2009, 10:53 am
#76 Langenhoven:
I take it you’re black and have a chipon your shoulder about Apartheid
8 Nov 2009, 10:55 am
#75 wooden spoon: BTW.. have managed to dictate discussion on the BBC business blog…. I am awesome!!!
8 Nov 2009, 10:59 am
#79 rugbywriter: I am mostly human hence my preoccupation with fighting inhumanity… BTW Skop is not black either… your theory is therefore ****
8 Nov 2009, 11:00 am
#81 Langenhoven:
Did I say Skop was black? And what theory?
8 Nov 2009, 11:03 am
#66 rugbywriter:
It is a fact that Jake considered Gurthro as Os’s natural successor.
And it would seem from what has been reported that, if Jake continued as Bok coach, he would’ve urged Smit to retire and have Bismark and Chilli as his two hookers.
HAD to include them?
I don’t think so.
8 Nov 2009, 11:04 am
Well this is something….2 front row forwards on way home and the boggest slap snoek of them all has a hand injury too….
All we need is J Smit to do a hammie nd we well on our way to getting a proper front row!
8 Nov 2009, 11:05 am
#82 rugbywriter: The theroy that you have to be black to have a problem with Apartheid and racism in general… but you should stop now.. you are about to get slaughtered. Imbeciles are easily exposed
8 Nov 2009, 11:05 am
Come on people, let’s be reasonable.
Gurthro might not be a strong scrummaging loosehead, but he is a handful in the loose and tackles well.
He may be a little lower on the list of SA 1s in the scrummaging dept, but in the loose he is up there along with Beast.
Heinke (when game fit) can scrum, but where else does he impose himself at match time?
8 Nov 2009, 11:06 am
I am 100% saffa….whats all this colour kak!!
8 Nov 2009, 11:08 am
For all those that have an issue with size.. Damn you should have seen David slay Goliath last night… a bit better than Aplon lifting and driving Matfield back in a tackle
8 Nov 2009, 11:09 am
#86 puff: Agree puff….but if you happy to go with a slight less powerful loosehead to accomodate there other virtues, then you must have a brute of a 3….
J Smit aint no brute 3 !
And beast is like Guthro….excellent in tight loose but not the best scrummager.
Cant have a weak 1 and 3 scrummager.
Thats our dilemma
8 Nov 2009, 11:10 am
#88 Langenhoven: did he beat the russian???
Hell…how?
8 Nov 2009, 11:11 am
To all “mostly humans” out there,…………..commiserations.
In the Bad Old Days, the Boks took a mounted Springbok Head with them on Tour, and it was presented to the first Club or Provincial Side to beat them (if any).
I hope the tradition is still alive.
8 Nov 2009, 11:12 am
#87 grant10: Hows you broer… Raining out my way.. but the house is warm…
8 Nov 2009, 11:13 am
#91 cane: instead of leaving a Bok head can we leave Jannie Du Plessis behind….please..
8 Nov 2009, 11:13 am
rugby writer you a f.ak’d up prejudiced fool whether you ready to admit it or not. This other twit wooden spoon not all that much better. But nevertheless we still talking rugby here and as much as I or anyone else would suggest that Wian du Preez and Wicus Blaauw along with Tiaan Liebenberg and Adriaan Strauss with WP Nel and Kevin Buys should be in the squad ahead of Gurthro, Beast, John Smit, Chili Boy Ralepelle and Jannie Pap Broek Dup, it were never going to happen. All those players being entrenched in the front line since 2007 already thanks to who.
So talk a whole lot of prejudiced ‘little *******’ sh’t all you like facts remain what they are. This country needs to develop second tier talent and it needs to promote Poc players whether you ready to shove your prejudice where it don’t fit or not.
Pdv took Rose, Nokwe, Adams, Potgieter, Viljoen, Maku, Raubenheimer, Hargreaves, De Jongh, along as his selection of players who he believed were due some blooding and exposure. Out of those who let the team down on Friday. Guess who, Chili, Gurthro, Jannie, Danie, Ruan and Odwa. Those were the players, each and every one of them seasoned WC winners under Jake the Fake, that let the team down, not the new kids but the old Poc players of yesteryear, they the ones that let us down.
8 Nov 2009, 11:14 am
#92 Langenhoven: That boxing….what happened there boet??
Cold and miserable here too…..looking forward to chelsea and man u later
8 Nov 2009, 11:14 am
#90 grant10: He almost knocked him out in the 12th… He boxed clever thoughout the fight though… hit and run… The Russian hardly had a clear scoring punch
8 Nov 2009, 11:14 am
#85 Langenhoven: Idiocy knows no colour. You’re doing a good job of proving that point. Thank you.
8 Nov 2009, 11:16 am
#91 cane: LOL
8 Nov 2009, 11:18 am
#96 Langenhoven: so the brit won??
8 Nov 2009, 11:18 am
#97 Sidewinder: We have different perceptions of idiocy then??
8 Nov 2009, 11:19 am
#96 Langenhoven:
Biggest Heavy Weight Champion ever (144kg, with a 13 inch advantage in reach)………murdered by a Cruiser Weight.
Incredible, Great to see.
8 Nov 2009, 11:19 am
#99 grant10: Yep… Hayes slayed Valuev… Two judges gave to him by 4 and the third called it a draw
8 Nov 2009, 11:21 am
#100 Langenhoven: No, I think we have the same definition. It’s just that you fail to realise that you’re the perfect embodiment of it.
8 Nov 2009, 11:21 am
#101 cane: and two foot taller
8 Nov 2009, 11:22 am
Gurthro smashed.
Chilli hobbled off.
Jannie smashed.
Rossouw and Bekker tried to no avail.
Potgieter tried, but was up against it.
Raubenheimer looked like the occasion was too big for him.
Johnson – gonna be a superstar.
Looks average and ill-equipped for up north when not behind a dominant pack.
Pienaar – most overrated player in SA. I’ll put him in the same boat as Rose. And Rose had a much better game than he did.
Nokwe – same strengths, same weaknesses as before. Can be effective within a certain game plan. Still has enough attributes to be in the mix.
Olivier – hmmm. I have sung his praises of late, but the guy desperately needs to step up a gear at test level. Hopefully he will when placed into a team of first-choice players.
De Jongh – was kept out of the game, but will be a star.
Ndungane – Mapoe, Mapoe, Mapoe.
Rose – see Pienaar above.
8 Nov 2009, 11:23 am
#102 Langenhoven:
The Judge giving the drawn must have had a little wagger on the side. Was there a Pakistani Judge by any chance.
8 Nov 2009, 11:23 am
The “Looks average” comment above needs Adams’ name before it.
8 Nov 2009, 11:24 am
#103 Sidewinder: You are free to think mate… but all arguments require Premise, Evidence, qualifications, warrantees..etc.. I single statement just will not do…
8 Nov 2009, 11:24 am
that is amazing….saw a excerpt where the cruiserweight was interviewed….super confident oke….reckoned he would sort the Russian no problem….damn thats good news!
Now Jannie dup to confirm he is on way home and my day will be made….
Of course a man u win will be the cherry on top.
8 Nov 2009, 11:25 am
1. Mtawarira
2. Du Plessis
3. Smit
4. Botha
5. Matfield
6. Brussow
7. Burger
8. Kankowski
9. Du Preez
10. Steyn
11. Habana
12. Jacobs (gonna be interesting to see how he handles 12)
13. Fourie
14. Pieterson
15. Kirchner
16. Du Preez
17. Strauss
18. Bekker
19. Rossouw
20. Adams (worrying)
21. Pienaar (worrying)
22. Olivier (needs to impose himself)
8 Nov 2009, 11:26 am
#105 puff: i would play Rose at 10 against Saracens…send Ruan home to go get his head right on the beach.
8 Nov 2009, 11:27 am
PDV could spring a surprise and have Pienaar on the bench as 9 cover and Rose on the bench as 10/15 cover.
Hmmm…
8 Nov 2009, 11:27 am
#105 puff:
Over the last year and a half, there seems to have a pre-occuptation in SA Rugby, of finding a place for Ruan.
Why is beyond me.
If he was good enough, Ruan would find a place for himself.
8 Nov 2009, 11:27 am
#111 grant10:
I agree.
This is who I think the 22 will be against France though…
8 Nov 2009, 11:29 am
#110 puff: If i was coach….and obviously without the saffas overseas….
I would…witrh this squad….play Dewalt Potgieter at …. Deysel at 7….Wiaan Du Preez at 3…
8 Nov 2009, 11:29 am
#106 cane: The only damage that Hayes had to his body was a hicky on the side of the neck… about the Pakistani judge.. that is racist mate.. He could have been an Afghan President.. or Saudi prince.. or george Bush
8 Nov 2009, 11:30 am
dewalt at 8
8 Nov 2009, 11:31 am
Best Try of the Weekend…….and contender for Best try of the Year.
Quade Cooper against England.
It remindeed me of Jonah for a moment or two.
8 Nov 2009, 11:31 am
#113 cane: amen!! Pity our best advices seem to come from Kiwis and Poms…here we just so damn blinkered it is scary.
8 Nov 2009, 11:33 am
#118 cane: wasnt Cooper mate!
8 Nov 2009, 11:35 am
congratulations to my black brother,haye,for slaying the russian ****!black power rules!
8 Nov 2009, 11:37 am
#115 grant10: Grant, Please explain the dynamics of the scrum to me..for real.. I plead ignorance on this one and I will accept your expertise … How much of a role does the Hooker play in pushing the scrum. Also does the TH and LH have the same value in pushing the scrum
8 Nov 2009, 11:38 am
#120 grant10:
Sorry…….Adam Ashley Cooper.
8 Nov 2009, 11:40 am
#121 Valkyrie: Racism is not cool mate… I am more particular about height and weight..Being a short **** weighing in at 90kg
8 Nov 2009, 11:41 am
need a couple more bulls to break something and 90%of the sharks contingent to be wiped out by something really contagious.
8 Nov 2009, 11:48 am
#121 Valkyrie:
Easy Sister…….easy.
Or you’ll end up in the “Sin Bin” with Lilly……..etc…
8 Nov 2009, 11:52 am
#122 Langenhoven: Bloody hell…i am a / was a flyhalf…!
But ….your 3 is the pillar….very important that your tighthead provides stability ….it is the most difficult and physically demanding roles in the front row.
The loosehead of course needs to scrum…but often the 1 is less tight than the 3 …and gets about the park more…makes more tackles…etc….like Os….
The bok problem is …in Beast and Guthro….we have not got the best scrummaging looseheads….therefore we need a very powerful tighthead….J smit is a Hooker…and struggles physically to impose himself….same as Jannie Dup…so we get onto the back foot…which has a negative effect on our loosies and half backs….it really is a cancer…spreads through the team…..
Bismarck du plessis also has his detractors as a scrummaging hooker…some knowledgeable okes reckon T Liebenberg and A Strauss the best scrummaging hookers in SA….
As i said…i am no expert…but i am not blind…i know when a front row is being ‘done’….
Perhaps some more knowledgeable bloggers around than me though….
By the way J Smit was recognised as a very good scrummaging hooker…
8 Nov 2009, 11:54 am
#105 puff:
Agree with you on almost everything.
I just don’t think AShley Johnson is gonna be a star. He had a good game, but so did Earl Rose.
But I’m truly happy to see people starting to wake up and realise how average Ruan is. When I used to be on the supersport blog a while ago everyone used to call me an idiot and a fool when I used to say that Pienaar wouldn’t even make my squad, nevermind XV. I’m glad people are starting to wake up BEFORE he starts costing us tournaments
8 Nov 2009, 11:55 am
#126 cane: I see Hayman being aggressively ‘ courted ‘ by the kiwi management…..
That scares me…
8 Nov 2009, 11:56 am
#128 rugbywriter: Reality is our front row will cost us tournaments before our backs….thats the glaring area of concern.
8 Nov 2009, 11:58 am
Shaun….the best scrummaging loosehead in SA is…when fit….Heinke V D Merwe….
Best scrummaging tighthead in SA is WP NEL…..
Our best 2 x tightheads are in Ireland….
8 Nov 2009, 11:58 am
On watching all the games over the weekend it would seem that it is important not to go wide under the new rules. You can win a game by winning scrums, mauls, loose ball and effecting penalties… The game is now about setting the position for a shot at goal. I would suggest that they downgrade tries to a two pointer and upgrade penalties and drops to 5 in keeping with their (IRB) aim to make the game more accessible to the less athletic fat okes.. Rugby oblivion is now visible… The end is nigh
8 Nov 2009, 12:00 pm
this my team I’d put out against France
W. Du Preez
J. Smit
WP Nel
B. Botha
V. Matfield
H. Brussow
S. Burger
D. Vermeulen
Fdp
M. Steyn
B. Habana
A. Jacobs
J. Fourie
L. Mapoe
R. Viljoen
H. Van der Merwe / W. Blaauw
B. Du Plessis
A. Bekker
W. Alberts / D. Potgieter
R. Pienaar
J. De Jongh
Z. Kirchner
8 Nov 2009, 12:01 pm
#129 grant10:
When he (Hayman) left for the Euro, he said he would be back in 2010 if wanted.
Come on home Carl……
Very surprised to see Chris Jack rated so highly in the CC. I thought his best days would have been behind him by now. It seems he may also have something to offer.
8 Nov 2009, 12:03 pm
#132 Langenhoven:
8 Nov 2009, 12:04 pm
#132 Langenhoven: LOL ..Classic!
#133 skopskiet: Better balanced front row than what will eventually run out….i see you a Ruan Viljoen fan…would like to see him play some Super 14 first….
Mapoein plave of JPP?
Maybe also let him do his thing at super 14 level….
And i reckon Dewalt Potgieter at 8….
8 Nov 2009, 12:07 pm
#134 cane: Jack was immense Cane….bloody wonderful to watch him at Newlands…he left a lasting impression.
For me Jack, A Williams and Hayman ….2011 ….its Kiwis for the taking….
Boks will find it a year too fat….too many aging legs….almost like Aussies of 1995…..1 year too far.
Cant see Matfield,J Smith, Bakkies, Smit making the grade….too much rugby and poor player management….
8 Nov 2009, 12:11 pm
#127 grant10: OK that confirms what I saw on FRiday…The first failure in the front three definitely came at 3 and as you said it spread like cancer… The next player to shoulder the load is LH… and the loosie behind 3, Davon Raubenheimer is immediately unsettled… I think that Jannie Dup had an attitude more than a physical problem in this game and should carry the blame for the whole fiasco… WE all know him to be a strong lad and his failure in teh scrum is a bit mystifying… I smell a rat especially since DM decided to persist with him
8 Nov 2009, 12:17 pm
#137 grant10:
Victor…. doesn’t exactly wear himself out every match he plays, he’ll be fine come 2011.
BTW….I thought he should have been the “Bok of the Year”.
Bakkies….If he can stay fit, he will have what it takes.
Smit….here you have a dilemma. Best Capt or best Hooker.
Juan…..not sure how old Juan is, but I always thought he would make a good Capt.
8 Nov 2009, 12:19 pm
#131 grant10:
I actually think CJ could be our best loosehead. Yes, that’s right, loosehead.
Nel looks imposing at 3.
I agree with the sentiment of turning Heinke into a 3. I believe he has all the attributes to dominate the game from this position.
But it is wrong to take him on a tour when he has had no game time since the start of the year. Plus converting him to 3 is a long term solution, and doesn’t fix our lack of depth in that position now.
8 Nov 2009, 12:20 pm
R. Viljoen is next best we have to F. Steyn, given correct exposure and introduced correctly he has all the makings of a class FB.
Adams did nothing wrong Friday, neither did Maku. Raubenheimer had a quiet game so did Potgieter for that matter.
Front 5 disintegrated with the Tiger’s onslaught up front and we were getting drilled at the breakdown thanks to Dickenson allowing them to encroach over the dead ball and blowing us up for similar.
Pienaar started well and then started freezing up when pressure was on, as is prone to do under duress but boy needs confidence not detractors killing his self esteem.
Rose had a blinder took every high ball and delivered a try scoring grubber weighted perfectly into the corner. Nokwe chased and harried well all game long and scored the try.
Players that were found out were Danie Roussouw, Gurthro Steenkamp, Chili Boy Ralepelle, Jannie Du Plessis, Ruan Pienaar, and Odwa Ndungane. They the ones need replacing. Though under more dominating front 5 I still believe Ruan can deliver the potential Pdv sees in him. Me too I believe he still has plenty potential in abundance just needs the confidence back that some his provincial coaches and bok’s back line coach has obliterated from his mind.
8 Nov 2009, 12:21 pm
#138 Langenhoven: It would be ridiculous to judge players outside of the tight 5 in that game….the pressures that come with a retreating and under pressure pack is a reality. It is damn tough on the back foot….as it is compounded by the opposition loosies swarming all over you as well…..
I felt for Heini Adams more than all of them….hell it must of been a nightmare begind a turbo reversing scrum!!
Raubenheimer ,Dewalt and Ashleigh Johnson were doing what they could to stem the tide….but if blame needs to be laid at anyones door it is first and foremost the front row…and the 2 locks are not immune from criticism.
But Shaun this was bound to happen sooner or later. Some bloggers here who rate there own opinions have been saying the scrums arent important …that the other facets are far more vital …etc. When i read that i kakked myself….thats a cop out of note….and the Kiwis ..aussies…poms would love that kak attitude coming from boks….
The scrums are the launchpad…must never be underestimated…..you may get away with it for a while….and that gave boks a deluded sense of security.
Well now we see the rot has set in deep….but hopefully we will man up and do what is neccessary.
Start by getting a proper scrum coach in….
And select the right props….Tough calls because it may mean a new role for J Smit….perhaps off the bench or retirement….but its the only way….cant procrastinate….
8 Nov 2009, 12:23 pm
#128 rugbywriter:
Time to change your nickname, mate.
Your logic is flawed.
You don’t think Johnson will be a star.
And your argument to support this is that Earl Rose had a good game too.
???
So what?
We’re talking about Ashley Johnson – not Rose, or any other player for that matter.
His type of game and his barrel of a physique makes him a different type of option at 8 than racehorses like Spies, Kanko and Van Niekerk.
He is more in the Willem Alberts mode and we need these types in the loosie mix.
8 Nov 2009, 12:24 pm
#139 cane: Juan only 28 but has a history of concussion problems….hope he makes it…great player.
Bakkies only plays 50 minutes so lets see….
VM …yeah…a great…and doesent hit the rucks that often …so who knows….
J Smit…make him scrum coach….retirement the best imo.
8 Nov 2009, 12:26 pm
#141 skopskiet: #142 grant10:
Well written.
8 Nov 2009, 12:26 pm
#140 puff: CJ can play 1….Heinke plays like a 3…strong and doesent get around as much as a beast or guthro so i can understand the reasoning….
What say CJ at 1….Bissy 2 and BJ at 3..?
8 Nov 2009, 12:27 pm
#144 grant10:
Disagree here though.
Smit to start at 2 with Bismark on the bench.
8 Nov 2009, 12:29 pm
Wynand did ok. The hookers did a decent job of finding their jumpers.The hilight of the weekend would have to go tp Alan wyn jones, i cant believe how he didnt get man of the match.
8 Nov 2009, 12:29 pm
#146 grant10:
Everyone rates BJ so highly, but I have yet to see him impose himself credibly at test level.
I’m just saying.
Once Heinke has had some game time at 3, I would like to see:
1. Beast
2. Smit
3. Heinke
subs:
CJ
Bismark
8 Nov 2009, 12:29 pm
Our Back Up Boks, these dudes can play:
1. Gurhtro Steenkamp
2. Tiaan Liebenberg
3. WP Nel
4. Anton van Zyl
5. Andries Bekker
6. Francois Louw
7. Willem Alberts
8. Ashley Johnson
9. Ruan Pienaar
10. Earl Rose
11. Jongi Nokwe
12. Peter Grant
13. Juan de Jongh
14. Lionel Mapoe
15. Joe Pietersen
23. The Dude
8 Nov 2009, 12:30 pm
#142 grant10: The game has changed and i accept that TH is now absolutely vital… UNder ELV’s, as it was played last season or before, mobility was important and scrums had lesser impact on the game… The game today is about holding the ball rather than quick release to a dynamic backline.. I am still mystified by Jannie Dup’s capitulation… seems more planned than accidental
8 Nov 2009, 12:32 pm
#71 rugbywriter: Rugbywriter do you think JW would have picked Brussouw?? What was his words? A fetcher is someone that brings me beer…..
Say what you want about PDV but he knows when he is wrong and quickly rectifies it, where as JW was very stubborn.
8 Nov 2009, 12:32 pm
I still wonder how the Boks will cope without The boot of Francois steyn and The influence Jean has on The backline.
8 Nov 2009, 12:34 pm
#143 puff: He meant to say Ashley Johnson like Earl Rose are both not white and will therefore not amount to much
#128 rugbywriter: You’r an obvious twat mate
8 Nov 2009, 12:36 pm
#94 skopskiet: great post boet
8 Nov 2009, 12:37 pm
Although
Beast
Bismark
Heinke
Could well be the trio to take the Boks forward at some point.
I would not disregard John Smit now and would like nothing more than for him to take the Boks to NZ in 2010.
He could play flyhalf for all I care, but I would have him in my team.
8 Nov 2009, 12:38 pm
Thank god that Guthro is heading home. He wasn’t injured, the only thing about him that’s injured is his reputation.
Go work on your scrumming, fat *******.
8 Nov 2009, 12:39 pm
Chiliboy’s inclusion still baffles me. Maku was fantastic, They should bring in Kuun..
8 Nov 2009, 12:39 pm
And it seems people are too quick to pounce on Daniesaurus.
He toiled hard on Friday and was clearly frustrated with the state of play.
Bakkies’ endurance come 2010 rests as much on Danie’s shoulders as his.
There is no-one more effective than Rossouw to come on for Bakkies round about the 50 minute mark.
The problem is PDV and co are replacing Bakkies with Bekker at the mo, which makes little sense.
8 Nov 2009, 12:39 pm
#153 Wezwp: Not well. We have players to replace them although there are questions about Adi at 12 given that he has always played at 13. Who knows maybe JF will play 12.
Kirchner OK although later on this year he did not set the world alight as at the start of the year. What puzzles me is our scrum. Why donlt we get a decent scrum coach (Gold is terrible in this department where is Os?)
Midweek team was pathetic and I stil wonder why we play Rose who is out of his depth at CC level let alone at international level. Johnson and Potgieter had a respectable game although they did not do much at scrum time. The whole of our backline was pathetic just as bad as out tight five. But then what do you expect from a team that is picked not on merit.
Where is Mapoe? Why was he left behind as the most effective wing in the CC?
8 Nov 2009, 12:40 pm
forget CJ and BJ, They’re the past. CJ can come back and play LH only if W. Du Preez or W. Blaauw don’t cut it at international level. Future is H. Vd Merwe, (and I agree turn him into a TH because his strength and not his mobility is his asset), W. Du Preez, K. Buys, WP Nel, and maybe C. Oosterhuizen.
We have the players just need to blood them and mold them in time.
2nd row is next worry. Thats why blooding Hargreaves nothing wrong in that thinking. But we need another enforcer lock and Danie Roussouw or J. Muller is not him. D. De Villiers or N. Breedt or A. Van Zyl or perhaps even W. Alberts ala Brad Thorn to fill that role. Not convinced about Sykes will have to see. Bekker the successor to Matfield, who to succeed Bakkies?
8 Nov 2009, 12:40 pm
Sorry
2011
8 Nov 2009, 12:41 pm
#147 puff: that wouldnt be a bad move at all…..
I have absolutely nothing but respect for J Smit….and would never have asked him to convert to 3 in the first place…..
It was the poor selections that have put us in this mess…and people not wanting to make the hard calls….Bissy from the bench after 50….maybe move smitty to loosehead last 30….but never to 3…
8 Nov 2009, 12:43 pm
#149 puff: i could live with that….lets first see hoe Heinkes conversion goes?
8 Nov 2009, 12:43 pm
#153 Wezwp: I always believed that Frans Steyn was useless and probably still do… but the new game is designed around guys like him and he should prospur… Dynamic backline is not essential to the game any longer.. Your pivot is now set at TH..
Never heard about Frans for a while… any news anybody??
8 Nov 2009, 13:00 pm
#160 Objective 101: Rose and Johnson were the 2 stand out players along with Deysel when he came on and Nokwe and Adams did nothing wrong either in the time they were on. Players that were rubbish were front row and Odwa and Pienaar who froze. D. Roussouw got turned over and isolated time and again trying to muscle it up alone, same with Potgieter and Deysel also trying to muscle up and take on the whole Tigers defense single handed without linking.
The cherry on top was when we were actually dominating last 5 minutes and pressurizing their line we did not have the confidence once in a 22 phase play to swing the ball out to the backs to try break the defense, instead we picked and drove without winning an inch as we are always prone to do due to our lack of back play ability or confidence.
Forwards are supposed to win the set piece, drive forward in the loose, create the probing gaps and then let the backs loose against a stretched defense, we did not do that once, and that is where our weakness lies, we need proper attack minded strategists in the coaching dept., we haven’t had that since our team of 98 and we only saw glimpses of it occasionally last year against Aus in Jhb and England at Twickenham, rest of the time it has been same staid old bust it up biff bash crash rugby that is the bane of SA rugby lack of progressive strategy thinking. Thinking that our brawn and lack of brains will do the trick but it never will.
8 Nov 2009, 13:09 pm
#166 skopskiet: Skop,you should have watched the Hayes v Valuev Fight last night… Huge lesson in Brains over Brawn
8 Nov 2009, 13:45 pm
Nothing bitter about this! Just a sweet, sweet result!
It’s amazing how snor de villiers NEVER picks the best players first time. Brussow, M Steyn, then Deysel and now these two. Wow when will he learn.
8 Nov 2009, 14:00 pm
Breaking news
PDV will use a 5 ….2 split on bench for test….
Pieter de villiers….ex French tighthead now back home in Stellenbosch…has joined the bok camp in joburg to assist with the Bok scrum training…great move PDV….he knows all the french players well…great move by PDV…
AND…HEYNEKE MEYER WILL BE BACK WITH BULLS FROM NEXT WEEK….D O R TYPE ROLE!!
Bloody Lions so stupid to have let him slip the noose…
8 Nov 2009, 14:15 pm
#167,
That said, Valuev isn’t much of a boxer. Real, classy boxers have not been around in decades. Marciano against Jersey Joe Walcott is my favourite fight of all time.
Marciano had a brilliant technique, that’s why he’s the only truly undefeated heavyweight champion in history. Something our scrummagers could learn. Technique in any sport can easily overcome pure strength or talent.
The only thing that can make us lose against France is if we are constantly on the backfoot due to our scrum, and injuries to key players.
It will be a miracle if Bakkies, du Preez, Matfield and the other core members of our first-team are not injured.
Perhaps Pdv, in spite of his Tri-Nations victory, still feels enough pressure to think success on this tour is critical. Hence these selections. I do not like the circumstances that surrounded his appointment, neither his selection policies or his personality and his frailty and yet I can’t help but feel sorry for him. He is obviously not equipped to deal with the press, and the pressure that this country puts on him is immense and not completely fair.
I will never be a fan of his, as there are better coaches around, but a part of me still wants the man to do well.
8 Nov 2009, 14:21 pm
great news about Pieter de Villiers been a long time coming to get a front row specialist in. I was also thinking a 5-2 split may be the way to go up there but I would have preferred a real hard line no.8/no. 4 back up like Vermeulen and / or Alberts. Guess Pdv covering his back with a weak Kanko to start so he’ll probably have a prop a hooker a lock and 2 loosie with one that can cover 6 and another to cover 7, 8 and 4. Or else he’s going with 2 back up props on bench. Most likely play both Potgieter or Deysel and Roussouw with Bekker, Strauss and W. Du Preez.
Probably start Kirchner at back with Pienaar, Rose or Viljoen off bench.
8 Nov 2009, 14:22 pm
#169 grant10: Mate you have me laughing here. Our Breaking News Man…..
I know it is good to have some French TH here helping with our scrums especially since we going to play there. BUT we don’t really need him. Why has PdV not employed Os until the wc 2011? Think about it, the Cheetahs scrums was no where near affective as it is until Os came on board there. He MUST be doing something VERY right there cause they have the best scrum in the country. Boks need a specialist scrum coach and not just for a week but all the time. Bring in Os I say.
I think it is good that HM finally will be used in SA rugby and probably the Bulls for that matter. He has HUGE respect there. Yes, I think Lions missed out on having him coach them next year. Muir I hope can do the business there. He never done it with the Dirt Trackers, then rubbish selections and not enough time to train together never helped. He did well with the E. Boks so do hope for the Lions he can turn it around there.
8 Nov 2009, 14:25 pm
#169,
Interesting. The Bulls keep on doing the right things.
Pieter de Villiers is a great player, but, as the saying goes, you can’t put in what God’s left out. With our captain and ‘Beast’ at the opposite ends of our front row, our scrum against France will not, and can not succeed.
I’ve always been an admirer of the French. Great tradition in their rugby. And the beautiful flair of the french…
Those tries in the early nineties, beautiful.
The best try of all time, in my view, was on the french’s victorious tour of New Zealand in 1992. The one against England in 1991 also comes close.
8 Nov 2009, 14:26 pm
#171 skopskiet: Bench will be….imo….Wiaan du preez….A Strauss….Jannie dup…[ save our souls]….Dewalt…A Bejkker…R Pienaar…E Rose
8 Nov 2009, 14:27 pm
#172,
My view exactly. Your one of the few that speaks sense.
8 Nov 2009, 14:28 pm
#172 Puma: Perhaps becuse he knows the French team so well…remember he was playing for them up to a few months ago!!
Heyneke will really be a wonderful acquisition for Bulls…with there favorable draw in next years super 14 they a tighthead away from real superstardom…
8 Nov 2009, 14:31 pm
Puma,
Lyk my jou Superbru vaar goed, maar ek’s darem kort op jou hakke. Blerrie Portugal
8 Nov 2009, 14:34 pm
#177 Die_Valk: hehehe. Portugal. I had to have a huge think about that. Don’t know any of the players have never seen them play either.
My first time playing SuperBru in the rugby too. Feel great to be on top of 3 pools there. Not for long though I am really quite useless at predictions it has all been bit of guess work. I fell flat with the Dirt Trackers. You done well to go with the Tigers there.
8 Nov 2009, 14:38 pm
#176 grant10: Bulls have a great draw for S14 next year and with HM back and with their star players I expect them to maybe keep that title.
Ja, look it is good to have someone from France here and know the conditions, well okay it is fine for playing against France. BUT we need a specialist scrum coach all the time and not just for a week. Boks must get one soon and I think Os is our man. Everyone respects the greatest LH we ever had too. PdV should bring him on board like he done with Percy. Bring back that eye coach too. Getting closer to wc he must bring in the best now.
8 Nov 2009, 14:40 pm
Die Valk I doubt you need to feel sorry for anyone apart from those really needing you sympathy. Pdv’s problem has been largely in his selection of his assistants. Both Muir and Gold are simply not up to the real task of formulating proper back line or forward strategy or dominance.
The ability of Pdv to recognize weakness and then go about trying to rectify it has been his saving grace so far, unlike coaches before him who simply dug their heels in when their true shortcomings were exposed and then got done by 49-0 or got beaten by France every single time or by Ireland everytime they played them away.
Pdv should get shot of Muir to start and perhaps with prop Pieter de Villiers coming in now he stands a chance of rectifying the front row catastrophe. A true leader selects the best support staff to surround him he can and delegates his trust in them. If they can’t produce the results then he has to make some tough calls just like JW had to call in E. Jones when he realized between himself, Coetsee and Smal he didn’t have a clue wtf was cutting anywhere around him whatsoever.
8 Nov 2009, 14:41 pm
#175 Die_Valk: Dankie Valk.
8 Nov 2009, 14:42 pm
#179 Puma: Os had a full dig at the Bok management for not taking Wiaan du preez on tour….he was scathing and blunt….hope there is no bad blood….
Agree…Os should be brought in to the fold.
8 Nov 2009, 14:43 pm
#178,
Ja, I think many people will now be backing the Saracens in a knee-jerk reaction. I get sick reading some of the comments from our (not so) esteemed bloggers. Sports fans can be tremendously fickle and blinded by prejudice.
I think that with our scrum sorted and Castro not there we’ll pull trough.
I will be backing France though.
Good luck with your predictions and you never know, maybe this is your breakthrough year.
8 Nov 2009, 14:46 pm
France game will be a helleva tough ask for Boks….really going to be a tough game….
Like they say in the classics….
Ek sal bid…maar ek belowe Niks!!!
8 Nov 2009, 14:54 pm
#182 grant10: I don’t think there will be bad blood for Os saying that. Everyone respects him, and yes he must be brought on board as the Boks scrum coach.
#183 Die_Valk: I will wait and see who we play against Saracens. Think we will win there. Lots of saffa players in that team.
Phew!! France think we have to play really well to beat them and they have a great scrum. Then with France they are either brilliant or not very good on the day. Will have to think about that one. Probably go with my heart and say Boks.
#184 grant10: Grant it is going to be tough but let us see how it goes. I know I have said this many times but us staying here and training at altitude will give us extra power. Lungs and leg wise. Even if their conditions are different to our hard fields pleased we stayed here to train. Just hope not major injury to any of our top players. Looking forward to the Ireland game big time. Just wish PdV could still have selected JdV and Frans Steyn. Huge loss those two.
8 Nov 2009, 14:57 pm
#185 Puma: More breaking news for you Puma….seems Maku and W Murray are on way to Lions after all…
Sharks better find some backs!!
8 Nov 2009, 15:01 pm
#186 grant10: Pleased for Maku to be going to the Lions. Will get to start or play far more rugby there and that is what he needs. Murray was superb in 2007 but without Barritt next to him he does not seem the player he was. Then maybe he too was injured for a long time and not enough game time to get back to where he was.
Yes Sharks need some backs for sure. Not sure where we going to find them this late. Should have been looking to some saffas overseas. See that M. Joubert is playing some brilliant rugby. Well not seen but heard he is.
8 Nov 2009, 15:07 pm
#186 grant10: Grant, Sharks have such a rubbish draw for the S14 next year, similar to WP bad draw they had this year. Not sure how well we will do with a draw like that. Will just hope we travel well we did win most of our game over there this year.
We play Chiefs first up at the Tank. Going to very tough in Feb in the humid weather and Chiefs are a very good team. Then our bogey team Cheetahs who always seem to have our number we play them next at the Tank. Off to NZ next to play Saders then to Oz to play two games then back to NZ to play another two games. Crazy why not play all the games when a team is in a country. It makes sense money wise with the travel and also brings down the weary travel thing.
8 Nov 2009, 15:08 pm
Out of here now. Cheers Grant and all.
8 Nov 2009, 15:11 pm
Maku is a fine prospect unlike Chili who can’t see out a half let alone a whole game. Chili is a done cause they should simply shelve that idea.
Os is a Jw sing along disciple and most likely anti Pdv so how you expect a coach to work with someone going to contradict your reasoning all way through. Problem with Sa rugby is that its so intertwined with preconceived ideological prejudice you first got to get through the mine field of personal prejudice before you start addressing the proper rugby issues.
Pity Pdv picked Muir as his confidant thats his first problem right there, not too sure about Gold whether he has what it takes either.
8 Nov 2009, 15:13 pm
#187 Puma: Ja…M Joubert…B Russell….all seem to be excelling.
8 Nov 2009, 15:15 pm
#188 Puma: Ja…Sharks will struggle…and a weak front row only the start of there problems…R Pienaar not sure whats going to happen with him…F Steyn gone…W Murray outta there….
But they will buy…
8 Nov 2009, 15:27 pm
Not bittersweet, just sweet!
8 Nov 2009, 15:35 pm
The golden Lions is the graveyard of black rugby talent… Any black player going there without the tenacity of Earl Rose will die there…Useless management to start with and then they employ DM to worsen the situation… If waylon is going to the LIOns then he must remember it was DM who plotted is downfall… and Whats more ..JW is the consultant… Golden Lions raid on the best black talent is a sham designed to destroy black talent.
8 Nov 2009, 15:36 pm
2 things I have been thinking of lately is :
1. If we are going to play mid week games on the eoyt and we are not going to play a full strength sides why don’t the dirt trackers play under the guise of the emeging Boks ??
This way if we do lose it is not the Bok brand that is tarnished as it was on Friday night, and clubs like Leicester don’t walk around with “hard ons” for a week because they beat the world Champions.
If however, before a tour we decide that we want to win all games on tour and that we will field a side that can be considered a test side or as close to a test side as possible and we then lose ,then fair game and the “hard ons” are deserved.
But if experimentation is the name of the game then it should be under the guise of emerging Boks.
2. Why after the hooter has gone is play allowed to continue till an infringement or a mistake occurs ?? Surely the game is played over 80 min plus injury time ???/IMO once the hooter has sounded that is it, game over, ref should blow time immediately !!
8 Nov 2009, 15:37 pm
#190,
I don’t usually respond to anything, but Os is one of the most respected and greatest players in the game that we love. Talking about him like that says nothing about him, who is a decorated player and a successful man-manager and coach, but a lot about you.
His views are his own, as he is an intelligent individual.
One’s opinion is exactly that, and if some people here are to be believed there are a million ways to succeed and they would make better coaches than anyone out there. Laughable.
#193,
Indeed.
8 Nov 2009, 15:38 pm
‘the tenacity of Earl Rose’
8 Nov 2009, 15:40 pm
#183 Die_Valk: I AM esteemed… so you cannot be talking about me… I like your delusions of grandeur… feeling sorry for PDV as if you are able to sit as his table or show him the door.. The man is currently the best coach in the world.. Even if I don’t like him… So who might you be..
8 Nov 2009, 15:44 pm
#198,
Even if you don’t know it you have a fantastic sense of humour.
Who am I? A student.
And who are you to measure success in such a shallow manner?
8 Nov 2009, 15:46 pm
Puma,
As jy nog in die omgewing is wil ek net cheers se.
Lekker dag.
8 Nov 2009, 15:59 pm
Os is to all accounts a good sound student and advocater of forward ability and would be a good acquisition as front row mentor and doctor in the Bok setup, as would Cobus Visagie or M. Proudfoot. However he would still need to see eye to eye with the current bok management setup, and if such consensus is unreachable then whatever his strengths of reasoning or man management abilities might be, his input would to all intents and purposes be more counter productive than productive under the circumstances.
Rugby philosophy differs between individual to individual so for a particular combination to work it would need complete buy in from all involved and not one opinion contradicting the next. This is why it possibly would not work for Os to be aligned with bok’s under Pdv unless they can both read from the same hymn sheet.
8 Nov 2009, 16:07 pm
#194 Langenhoven: Since Walyon kept Adi out of the 13 berth while Muir was in charge, and won his test caps while White was with the boks, hardly makes your statement credible.
I don’t support the Lions at all but I’m glad that Maku and Murray will go to a team where they have a good chance of starting, and subsequently excelling.
Maku has loads of potential and Murray was before his injury one of the few physically imposing centres in this country who actually went for the gap. His partnership with La Grange should be interesting.
Agree that Lions tend to buy all their POC players, but not sure if you can call them a graveyard just yet. Although Rose’s fall from consistent WP grace did start at the Lions…
8 Nov 2009, 16:14 pm
#201,
I totally agree. I think the problem Os has is that he’s a realist and speaks his mind when necessary. A vice in our beloved country.
8 Nov 2009, 16:28 pm
if ludick doesnt move to the tank then i think muir will start rose at 10 consistently under instruction from pdivy
8 Nov 2009, 16:34 pm
No since when is being honest about anything a vice. Most people that find things untenable in a particular setup or surrounding usually pack up and make like Donald and duck for greener pastures or new less demanding circumstances.
Perhaps both Os du Randt and Pdv have headstrong ideas about what they think to be valuable in the country’s rugby ambition. If those ideas are not aligned in a similar direction then it could not work. On the other hand if ideological differences can be set aside for the sake of a win win result. Then the sky is the limit and we could all prosper. It depends largely on individuals understanding the overall big picture view and not their own petty introspect ideas or ambitions.
Anyone seeing an individual as being inferior to himself purely as a result of some underlying preconceived ethnically inspired prejudice is not seeing the true picture in true perspective but through the shady spectacles of color coded prejudice.
Pdv may have his flaws of that I have no doubt, but most rugby ideologists in this country don’t see his flaws for what they are, they see his personality and his background first and judge him with the eyes and ears of judgmental delinquents. Unfortunately the rugby going public in this country are not free of preconception or prejudice, it is so inherently ingrained it is practically enshrined in rugby’s religious thinking before any rational thought takes place at all.
8 Nov 2009, 17:24 pm
#192 grant10: A lot has been said, mainly I believe, due to each blogger’s sincere disappointment at Friday night’s loss, and with each blogger having their favourites they punt, things have sometimes gotten totally out of hand here on this site. This morning I sat down and watched the game for I think the fourth time. This time I tried to remain objective and look past the individuals to look for where things went wrong. These are my honest feelings about it all.
1. Yes, there were some dodgy selections which were shown up. These were not necessarily youngsters(in fact mostly the contrary), quota-related, or even really bad selections, and the coaching staff have obviously had some specific questions about individuals that they needed to have, and I believe have been, answered. In their quest I suspect they always knew they might be exposed in the process, but the answers they needed lie at the heart of their way forward in developing this team personnel and playing style wise, and had to be answered.
2. Not enough credit is being given to the wiley Leicester coaching staff. They picked two monster props who are veterans and ‘hardebaarde/ou manne’ and two hookers of the same calibre. Losing Ben Kay just before the match, they pulled Ayerza the prop and replaced him with Stankovitz, an even better scrummager, because they were then forced to pick two smaller inexperienced locks. Cudos to them. I don’t believe the Bok test pack would have done any better.
3. Everybody is blaming our loosies for not providing us with an 8 man scrum, but the truth is Leicesters’ loosies didn’t scrum either. Go and look at the match again. Their loosies’ body position looked good and low while ours look high and bad, because we were going backward at a rate of knots. It was a question of their tight five monstering ours. And our props opted for illegal tactics to bail out of the scrums by collapsing, so no amount of further pressure from behind by the loosies would have made a difference. in fact during one scrum that split, Danie Rossouw went hurtling out of the scrum past Gurthro, and could have been injured. Truth being, in the Southern hemisphere 8man scrums are a luxury due the speed of the game, and you need especially your fetcher to hang loose to buy that extra split second. Hence the term loose forwards. So if 8man scrums were required, it should have been identified by the coaches and practiced in properly, as it is a departure from our style of play. Enough said.
4. One problem though, mentioning the scrum splitting, it showed one of the unsung values/ assets of Pierre Spies’ upper body power to keep the locks together behind the scrum when the frontrow struggles. This is one area where we missed him, and our no 8 defended on an ad hoc basis out wide and on the chase, but he was conspicuously abscent at the breakdown and tightloose in a team being severely stretched in those areas. But with ball in hand, to his credit, he was great, although it would have been nice if he could have made the cover tackle on Amorosino. At this level it is not good enough just to get there- you have to nail the tackle as well. And in the final moments, it would also have been nice if he had stuck to the structure instead of hurling the ball out wide in a high risk move, wheras the plan was clearly to slow it down until the defence was sucked in. But he was brilliant with ball in hand.
5. The Tigers’ style of play at the breakdown is a coached set style of play ensuring numbers and going forward over the ball to counter any possibility of fetching at the tackleball. Often, in the Southern hemisphere, they do not support their own weight in the rucks, and don’t even try. Instead, they go to seal off the ball. So, in my view, not even Heinrich Brussow would have been able to make a single steal on Friday.
6. As regards the captaincy, we should have started the game with the captain we ended it with. The moment he took over, the guys came together and he was clearly the glue that made them stick together in the last 10 minutes. Again I believe the coaches should have been on top of that one as well. Clearly, and hindsight is an exact science, the guys rallied behind him and for the first time played as a team. I predict a huge step up against Saracens.
7. I also got the feeling that the more experienced guys (the ussual test reserves), to a man, did not show any leadership in the team to help to pull the youngsters together and settle in.
8. Finally, they had an on-form 10 while ours made too many basic errors and kicked badly tactically. If I were the coach, given Earl’s game, I would have switched 10 and 15 early on. On that point, I believe Earl put one over on all his detractors in this game. Now I’m waiting for the consistency.
8 Nov 2009, 18:00 pm
#206 catleya:
I agree with most of what you said and pointed out, on Saturday, that PdeV was probably giving some of the senior players a make or break opportunity before he builds his WC squad next year. It was the senior players who performed badly, in the main, as you state.
Regarding body position, this has always been an area where we fall short, due I believe to the harder grounds where players tend to be more upright and use size and momentum to break tackles, whereas in the NH, they tend to go to ground more often because of the playing conditions and use the low body drive to go forward rather than relying on momentum.
8 Nov 2009, 18:14 pm
Nh rugby is a go to ground, seal off and recycle kind of strategy and dominate front foot set phase possession. We been sucker’d into the idea that mobility in the tight 5 is more important than power, hence our reliance on mobile less dominating forwards.
The old set of standards where props were the cornerstone of the vanguard has been supplanted by the idea that props must be ball carrying specialists who drive and fetch in the loose. The pace of the game is far slower in the Nh but structure is far more dominant. And this up n under kick n chase game won’t work up there either. We will have to learn to carry and off load the ball into space and create opportunity if we want to be successful rather than rely purely on individual brawn to bust through defences.
9 Nov 2009, 04:21 am
Chiliboy and Gurthro? Both are only “quotas”, aren’t they?
9 Nov 2009, 10:17 am
Some of the bloggers, especially on keo and rugby365.com, have been all to quick to blame the “quotas”
Personally I think the following did really well – Rose, Johnson, Olivier,
The following didn’t do enough to put their hands up – De Jongh, Bekker, Nokwe, Potgieter, Ndungane, Maku,Adams
AND the following were extremely disappointing, out of their depth or should just be @ home getting rest – Pienaar, Guthro, Chilli, Russouw, Raubenheimer, Janni,
9 Nov 2009, 17:44 pm
Thank the lord for small miracles. P Div either saw this coming and played the politicians, or he is the luckiest SOB in SA.
9 Nov 2009, 17:47 pm
#210 Papoose: agree, it’s not quota players, it’s just mad, bad selections.
Have your say
You must be logged in to post a comment.