CJ back for Boks
8 Nov 2009
Peter de Villiers has been forced to compromise on his stance of not picking up overseas-based-players by calling up prop CJ van der Linde as a replacement for the injured Jannie du Plessis.
Du Plessis has withdrawn from the European tour with a hand injury sustained against Leicester on Friday. Van der Linde, who plays for Leinster in Ireland, last played for the Springboks in 2008, but has since been overlooked after opting to continue his career outside of the country.
The Free Stater is a solid, experienced scrummager who’ll add great value in a facet of play that is likely to be the talking point ahead of the Test against France on Friday.
‘It’s fantastic that we’re able to call on a player with CJ’s experience to join the squad,’ said Bok coach De Villiers.
‘With such a tight schedule it is also helpful to be able to bring in someone who has been part of the group before, knows the systems and will settle in quickly. CJ is also a specialist tighthead who will provide the type of cover we will need.
‘It is unfortunate that we have lost three players so early in the tour but that is part of the game and we have to be able to manage such setbacks.’
Du Plessis’ injury means that the entire starting front row who were decimated at scrum time against the Tigers have been forced to return home, with hooker Chiliboy Ralepelle and prop Gurthrö Steenkamp suffering with foot and knee knocks respectively.
Van der Linde will travel to France on Wednesday where the rest of the squad, arriving from Johannesburg and London, will converge in Toulouse. The other two replacements Wian du Preez and Adriaan Strauss will join the squad in Johannesburg on Sunday.
249 Comments
8 Nov 2009, 18:56 pm
this is intense.
8 Nov 2009, 18:56 pm
woo hoo getting better n better Grant10 gonna have a coronary attack when he sees this.
Jannie gone ow how good can it get. Now let Odwa get a hammie and call up Mapoe and we ready to cook with some gas again.
8 Nov 2009, 18:58 pm
it is strange how injuries keep seeming to work in our favour.
8 Nov 2009, 19:04 pm
Bloody hell….about time….best news ever man!!
Now we starting to bring in the real manne!!!
Fark i am over the moon now!!!
Gonna pop a beer…..
8 Nov 2009, 19:04 pm
thank f’ck.
now its starting to look like a decent Bok touring squad with CJ and Deysel.
8 Nov 2009, 19:05 pm
#4 grant10: saw that coming. think everyone’s smiling.
8 Nov 2009, 19:07 pm
Good Call PDV! Maybe BJ will be next!
8 Nov 2009, 19:09 pm
Divine Providence or a little shake of the wiggle wand stick, whichever way Pdv sees the light ain’t no sweat. At least the man knows when to back down and admit he’s starring down the barrel, he’s pride ain’t as un bending as some other twits who would go down 49-0 without a fight.
8 Nov 2009, 19:10 pm
NOW WE’RE TALKING!!!
Du Preez, Strauss & v.d. Linde would have given that Leister pack a moerse klap; no question!!! Makes a mockery of Piet Helium’s selections in the 1st place!
8 Nov 2009, 19:12 pm
hey PdV grew a braincell! Congrats!
Now grow 2 more and get Jean and Luke in the side
8 Nov 2009, 19:13 pm
Jannie should have signed for WP; the fact that he’s not getting game time isn’t helping his development as a tighthead one bit!!!
8 Nov 2009, 19:14 pm
So, if he called up CJ, then he can call up Frans Steyn and Jean De Villiers.
8 Nov 2009, 19:14 pm
So the entire front row gone home battered and bruised !!!!
That’s what happens when you take knives to a gun fight !!!!!
8 Nov 2009, 19:16 pm
#11 Limerick-Bok: I think WP’s bought enough for this year
8 Nov 2009, 19:16 pm
Forget luke. We have a wealth of looseforwards in the country. Great news about CJ. If BJ, JdV and FS also get selected how great would the Bok squad be then!
8 Nov 2009, 19:17 pm
I can sleep easy tonight.. Its about time we get some power back into the Bok scrum. Plus this dragon can cover loose head and tight head..
8 Nov 2009, 19:17 pm
Cmon Boks….take the quantum leap….embrace the professional era….call F Steyn, J DE Villiers and BJ….
Sommer now man!!
Why wait…we will be unbeatable if we cross the Rubicon….only fear fear itself boys…..we must lead …not follow…perhaps the Leicester win was divine bloody intervention….
GO BOKKE….Lets get Luke there too!!!
8 Nov 2009, 19:17 pm
#13 justrugby: LOL
8 Nov 2009, 19:18 pm
#11 Limerick-Bok: no thanks…we want to compete here in Cape Town!!
8 Nov 2009, 19:19 pm
Smitty next and Odwa, get Mapoe on board to back up Habana or JPP.
Smitty should play 2 only, we still short a proper TH.
8 Nov 2009, 19:19 pm
It was more like water pistols to a gun fight..
8 Nov 2009, 19:20 pm
Anyone know, honestly, how CJ’s been playing?
8 Nov 2009, 19:21 pm
crossing the rubicon…was that caesar or die groot krokodil?
bugger the rubicon, revert to ou doos rugby style quicksmart, dont mean you have to also raise the KKK flag
8 Nov 2009, 19:22 pm
#12 A_Poc: **** I forgot about Steyn
#15 Partizan: You can’t not pick the Absa Currie Cup player of the year, the player who scored 11 tries behind a so called light 5
8 Nov 2009, 19:23 pm
#23 cab: Screw the KKK…and all that think like them!
8 Nov 2009, 19:23 pm
#24 SpringbokSarah:
Hehe. Steyn would be my second choice after Brussow if I had to pick the team.
8 Nov 2009, 19:25 pm
#22 ad_oz: Only just back for Leinster after a long injury…Big Hit gives me a weekly report but havent seen him today….no doubt licking his wounds after poms 2 nd half capitulation!
8 Nov 2009, 19:25 pm
#25 grant10:
dont confuse the kkk with the rugby pack style, its the blend that is necessary, the bokke packs of old were formidable for a reason.
8 Nov 2009, 19:25 pm
#26 A_Poc: Heinrich? Isn’t he already with the Boks?
8 Nov 2009, 19:26 pm
Kiwis and aussies will be wary now….they no longer fooling us into believing fetchers and scrums are superfulous!
8 Nov 2009, 19:28 pm
#30 grant10:
watch Burger against the french, you will see who the master is.
8 Nov 2009, 19:28 pm
#28 cab: Agree….some good old fashioned afrikaans beef in the tight 5…all for that ….
8 Nov 2009, 19:29 pm
Fate smiles on the Bok supporters
8 Nov 2009, 19:30 pm
#32 grant10:
yes the souties are absolutely kak, especially the WP ones.
8 Nov 2009, 19:31 pm
#31 cab: Burger at 7 will be a very important part of the strategy….Schalk will be refreshed and raring to go….he needs to step up big time cab…we will need a vintage fire and brimstone effort from schalk the weekend….
I will be behind him 100%….that i promise you, remember my criticism of Smit and schalk had everything to do with a belief that they are playing out of position…
8 Nov 2009, 19:31 pm
#29 SpringbokSarah:
I meant that if I were to pick the Bok team from scratch that I would start with Brussow and then Steyn. Based on your comment that you forgot about Steyn.
8 Nov 2009, 19:32 pm
#34 cab: LOL….Those souties pushed the bulls and sharks about a few times this season…..
Next super 14 will be great…outta here
A happy man
Cheers …
8 Nov 2009, 19:37 pm
So does this open the door for overseas players P Div, or is this an isolated case of wrong selections in the first place ?
8 Nov 2009, 19:42 pm
Didier Drogba just got a few studs to his chest and he goes down like the grim reaper just called his name. These round ball prima donna’s should get 40 min of rugby thrown at them then they’ll know what some studs in the chest feel like.
Chelsea just scored from set piece free kick. 1-0 Blues
8 Nov 2009, 19:43 pm
#36 A_Poc: oh lol ok
8 Nov 2009, 19:44 pm
#10 SpringbokSarah: Luke!
8 Nov 2009, 19:44 pm
Great, now off your high horse and bring in Frans and Jean
8 Nov 2009, 19:45 pm
Grant10 is going to have an org@sm when he reads this. lol.
But on a serious note, great news this
8 Nov 2009, 19:47 pm
Again De villiers needs an injury to force him to pick the best player.
Showing his ineptitude for spotting talent! sigh.
8 Nov 2009, 19:53 pm
f.ak anyone who should get off their high horses are these high horse poepol palooka supporters who can’t appreciate a coach that recognizes his folly and rectifies it. Its these other twat twits that lose to Ireland and France and record losses to Aussie that were inept in recognizing their own failures. Just like the bunch of second grade supporters that lick their dumb *** losing ways back sides.
8 Nov 2009, 19:55 pm
#41 scar: what? How many awards does he have to win before he gets in
8 Nov 2009, 19:57 pm
Well that’s interesting.
Personally I would have taken WP Nel ahead of CJ. But I would take Skopskiet to play 3 ahead of Jannie Poep.
That Leicester front row did us a big favor – in terms of personnel & approach.
Be interesting to see the Bok 22. Be nice to have a decent bench for a change. Have both Wian & CJ on the bench. I hope not to see Maku & CJ (who can cover both sides).
8 Nov 2009, 19:59 pm
I am sure Oddjob’s hammie is buggered and he needs to fly home too. Bring in Mapoe.
8 Nov 2009, 19:59 pm
#47 SodaJoe: rofl
8 Nov 2009, 20:00 pm
#48 SodaJoe: Who’s Oddjob?
8 Nov 2009, 20:03 pm
#50 SpringbokSarah: Odwa. Who I actually like, but his form is horrible right now.
8 Nov 2009, 20:04 pm
this is almost the best news of the day.
Heyeneke Meyer reported to be returning to the Bulls as Director of Rugby.
Please sweet Mary, recruit CJ to the Bulls ASAP. Also Mapoe as a replacement for Habana.
#45 skopskiet:
But when Jake recognized his folly….as you put it. He got Eddie in and won the world cup.
But for this you actually critisize him?
Is that not bizarre on your part.
Incidently, CJ is also a Jake White Bok.
8 Nov 2009, 20:05 pm
Very good news. Finally some good selections. CJ can play LH and TH so he covers both positions
Do feel for WP. Nel though who had a oustanding CC season.
Now PLEASE PdV select JdV and Frans Steyn.
Then we are well selected for the tests.
8 Nov 2009, 20:06 pm
#51 SodaJoe: oh right shame man… but hey you can’t keep a good man down… he’ll be back
8 Nov 2009, 20:06 pm
45
If he had a functioning brain he would never made such stupid and naive picks in the first place.
You can go on all you like about how we’re bad supporters blah, blah blah.
But We, as supporters expect the best players to be picked to form the best team. We do not appreciate quota selections and for the coach to pick certain players ahead of more deserving others just to make the squad’s representation more colourful.
Sad but true. But not good enough!
8 Nov 2009, 20:07 pm
#52 Brigadier Van Zyl: You skelm you
You get HM back and want the best in Mapoe and CJ. Rather let them come to the Sharks 
8 Nov 2009, 20:07 pm
and with that I am out
cheers guys
8 Nov 2009, 20:08 pm
#55 WP_: Hello WP. Well said mate. 100% behind you there.
8 Nov 2009, 20:09 pm
#39 skopskiet:
footballers sometimes play 3 times in a week.
Ralepele plays 3 times a season.
8 Nov 2009, 20:09 pm
I would still like to have WP Nel there
CJ has always had a suspect bind
8 Nov 2009, 20:10 pm
#53 Puma: I am pretty worried about Adi at 12. Morne needs to be protected and we don’t need him to have to make too many Johnny Wilkinson tackles, and Adi doesn’t need his shoulder permanently buggered. 6 & 8 going to have to make some very big tackles, and hoepfully our scrum is not going backwards.
I would have CJ and Beast on the bench. Smit, Biz, Wian. (Not going to happen I know – but would work better). CJ very quick for a huge man.
Move Smit to hooker – and blitz them with pace and power from CJ & Beast in the last 30.
8 Nov 2009, 20:10 pm
#57 SpringbokSarah: Bye bye Sarah.
8 Nov 2009, 20:10 pm
100% for John Smit as captain, tighthead, and player.
100% for Schalk Burger as world class flanker.
Just thought I’d piss off a few WP serial posters here
8 Nov 2009, 20:11 pm
#60 JL1: I agree.
8 Nov 2009, 20:13 pm
Howsit Puma
Yeah it’s sad that had to be said but it happens alright. And it was shown up on Friday night.
It’s quite ironic how these 3 front rowers who have been called up are much better players than those sent home injured. Injuries force de villiers to make decent picks!
8 Nov 2009, 20:14 pm
this could potentially lead up to a second piece of great news: could CJ’s selection not maybe be an indication that he has plans on returning to SA? it was reported that he was keen to return about 6 months ago in any case.
8 Nov 2009, 20:15 pm
perhaps this is another stunningly crafty ploy by the Maestro, before he unveils the big guns on saturday.
8 Nov 2009, 20:15 pm
#63 Lions Soutie
Agree mate
8 Nov 2009, 20:15 pm
#59 Brigadier Van Zyl: He plays?
I have seen him once in 2007 I think play
PDV and his selectors destroyed many young players in this Tigers game. I am sure that many will not play for SA ever again or for their provinces.
8 Nov 2009, 20:17 pm
#64 SodaJoe: He slips th ebind and gifts 3 pointers to the opposition, same as BJ.
I reckon Cheetahs frontrow with Os are the form guys followed by Province with Matthew Proudfoot
8 Nov 2009, 20:18 pm
Chilliboy should just retire, he’s just wasting time playing a few games a season then getting injured again and again
8 Nov 2009, 20:20 pm
Die voorry van Vrydagaand en hulle ondersteuning was baie duidelik nie opgewasse vir hulle taak nie, om watter rede ookal, en dit is dus nie ‘n verrassing dat aldrie seergekry het nie.
8 Nov 2009, 20:20 pm
#61 SodaJoe: Joe, That is what I said to G10. Move John back to Hooker and leave Bissie on the bench.
Adi for me is not at test level this year. Not the same player as last year. Should have selected JdV and F. Steyn. With W.du Preez and CJ there too we would be a brilliant side. Would have no worries at all.
Now still worried with Adi at centre they going to run through that channel for sure.
Also with Fransie big boot they would not just be kicking it down to us. Not too sure with Zane at FB but we don’t have many to choose from except J. Pietersen from WP. I would not even have thought about it but called JdV and F. Steyn back to play in this tour.
8 Nov 2009, 20:21 pm
#69 JL1: Chili’s role as head Bok cheerleader has done his career and body irreparable harm. He should have been getting fit, playing rugby, honing his craft and experience.
Now he’s toast. I can’t see any S14 franchise taking him bar the Bulls. And Maku will eat his lunch there.
I feel for Guthro – one of my favorite players – great in the loose and all heart, but he may not resurrect himself from this either.
Jannie – needs to further his medical career now.
Bekker – for once and for all needs to watch Victor Matfield and just do that.
Odwa – go and have a rest come back for a great S14.
8 Nov 2009, 20:22 pm
#70 JL1: 100% agree. I am not a huge fan of either BJ (penalty machine) or CJ (has he actually played this year?)
8 Nov 2009, 20:24 pm
#69 JL1: Very true and that is what they said on “All Out Rugby” tonight. Kobus was furious with the selections and G. Wright.
8 Nov 2009, 20:25 pm
#75 SodaJoe: Should have given WP Nel a chance. Been outstanding for the Cheetahs.
8 Nov 2009, 20:25 pm
#74 SodaJoe: You are right, many provinces will not select these guys again and I do not see any foreign teams wanting to sign them up
Transformation is killing some of these players, Jannie had the chance to move but declined
Guthro will not be in the Bulls starting line up once they get a better prop on board, and I am sorry to say Raubenheimer will be remembered for his great photography work
8 Nov 2009, 20:25 pm
WP both you and Puma go on like a bunch of two faced twats with nappy rash. You got such inherent disdain for this coach its down right open sighted and blatant. So far this coach has surpassed anything any other twat twit white coach has done before yet first chance you *** wiggle wanks get you on his case like a bunch of moffo’s.
Other twat twits lost more than they won on Eoyt’s, never beat France once, record losses to Aus and Eng and Nz. Yet you suck up to their ballas like you got twinkle eyed star dust in your eyes. This coach wins the tri nations, and Br Lions, and Nz twice away and you still gaan aan like the two faced jaundiced quack’s you are.
He was intent on providing some development of players that were being sidelined by the provincial franchises and its about time somebody did. Now he takes remedial action in situations that are palpably obviously necessary and you crucify him still. Whereas another twat twit white coach would never back down on his idiocy and rather go down 49-0 instead. Punk *** palooka 2nd grade half wit supporters like you he can well do without.
8 Nov 2009, 20:26 pm
CJ is a very good pick, he’s not a monster scrummer, but he;s held his own versus the top SA packs and knows how to win on these EOY tours, he is also a collosus in the tightloose when hungry.
8 Nov 2009, 20:27 pm
#67 cab: Howzit Cabbie,
I think the Maestro is a little worried after the silly selections on Friday Night.
8 Nov 2009, 20:29 pm
#79 skopskiet: Skop I have seen 49-0 now for about the 2 thousand time. YAWN.
Did you watch All Out Rugby tonight? Well Kobus and Wright think the same as the whole country that means me and WP and yes you guessed all of South Africa but not you though
8 Nov 2009, 20:30 pm
Thank goodness! This is the happiest news I’ve received today, after Man U’s loss to Chelsea! Smit will really feel the pressure to perform as a tighthead, which I’m sure he will do; and suddenly WIan du Preez, Adriaan Strauss and CJ van der Linde are the back-up front row. That improves our scrum ability dramatically
8 Nov 2009, 20:32 pm
#81 Puma:
long as they keep winning the tests is what counts.
bout time the provinces gave these youngsters like ralapelle and maku a shot, it needs to be balanced, but the signing of gary botha and conversion of kuhn to hooker shows teams like the bulls are just into window-dressing so the national coach has no choice, its all arse about face.
8 Nov 2009, 20:37 pm
#84 cab: G10 says its confirmed that Maku and Murray are going to the Lions. So Maku will get to start there and then after S14 think we will have a great player in him. For this tour no, just a little undercooked. After getting plenty game time at the Lions he will be a far better player have no doubt. He has great talent. So does Chili just so injury prone I feel for him. Needs more game time too.
8 Nov 2009, 20:37 pm
Jannie Dup, Gurthro Steenkamp and Chili Boy Ralepelle were all JW bok’s, all touted as second in line behind Os, Bj or Cj before Smit moved to Th.
Wp Nel, Blaauw, Du Preez, Buys, Oosterhuizen, have so far only phone in the Cc against fellow provincial opposition. None of them have fared either in S14 or internationals yet. Still they are probably better than the front line player that were held inn esteem like Smit, Jannie Dup, Beast, Gurthro before.
Now all these side winding couch potato coaches are telling everyone its the national coaches fault that no front row props are developed. If we threw Blaauw or Du Preez in against Leicester you reckon they wouldn’t have been chewed up by the Italian just as bad, let alone Beast or Gurthro or Smit the hero.
Jannie Dup was never an option ever. This should have been realized long time back. Neither Smit at 3. So if he can’t cut it at 3 then its time for him to hang up his boots because he’s not no.1 hooker neither.
8 Nov 2009, 20:38 pm
WP Nel is a good prospect…but he is very young…give him a super 14 before a Test i reckon….
CJ and BJ may have limitations….but i defy anyone who tells me Smit a better bet at 3…thats just downright idiocy and preposterous.
8 Nov 2009, 20:39 pm
phone – shone
8 Nov 2009, 20:40 pm
or whats even worse, the other couch potatoes who pick a new frontrow to replace the world cup winning Boks who have been there and done that against everyone including the BILS and ABs, instead they tear down the very heralded players that have taken the boks to these illustrious heights.
8 Nov 2009, 20:40 pm
those leicester forwards must be having on hell of laugh right now!
they fcuked up our whole front row all the way to sickbeds. I hope cj is up to the task, he can also be a penalty liability!
8 Nov 2009, 20:40 pm
#79 skopskiet: You call the Leicester fiasco “development”? Don’t be ridiculous. None of the young players were “developed” by that experience. If anything, they’ve had their confidence shattered. PdV is destroying careers because he overestimates the ability of some players and underestimates the strength of the opposition. He is an extremely infantile coach who allows success to go to his head, and is tripped up by his own arrogance.
8 Nov 2009, 20:41 pm
#76 Puma: I do not get to see any of the SA rugby programs here in the UK, it is a pity because Sky is just rubbish when it comes to rugby
8 Nov 2009, 20:41 pm
#83 Mbhubesi: It does and good news. Just feel for WP. Nel he has played superb rugby and maybe should have got a call before CJ. Then CJ can play LH and TH and playing over in NH so probably that got him the selection.
8 Nov 2009, 20:41 pm
Must say I like the way PDV changes his mind. Why have one if you can’t change it.
8 Nov 2009, 20:44 pm
In fact even Wickus Blaauw as well…give him a full super 14 first…At least Wiaan du preez is 27 years old and a real haardebaard…A Strauss is a real leader and has played for boks too….
Personally i would feel more comfortable with BJ or CJ at 3 than a novice rookie….give the young props like wp…wickus ,Buys and Coenie next year at super 14 to see there worth i reckon…
8 Nov 2009, 20:45 pm
#86 skopskiet: Somehow evertiem our srum gets mauled, Bekker seems to be the lock behind the frontrow
Time to start asking questions about the whole pack and their technique
PDV selected many favourites who did get game time at their provinces but will not get much in the future after Friday night
Ashley Johnson played no S14 and he looked OK to me
8 Nov 2009, 20:45 pm
#89 cab: 2007 WC Front row was????
2 Smit
3 CJ
1 OS
8 Nov 2009, 20:45 pm
#92 JL1: I would miss them. Pity you don’t get to see them and what they have to say. Kobus and Wright were just furious with the selections. Especially Kobus saying now that Tigers think they have beaten the Springbok World Champs. Which they never but it will go down in history like that. We here all have our pride.
They all said it was selections that cost us and all said that we should always select the best to tour. Something I had gone on and on about on Friday night here and some just had to have a go at me because of that. Think most of SA felt like me and a few here that were posting on Friday night. The ones that called in felt just the same.
Now I do wish they could select JdV and F. Steyn too. Then we all set and ready.
8 Nov 2009, 20:46 pm
#91 Sidewinder: He did publicly say that not NH side will be able to hold their own against the SH sides
Tigers must be a SH side
8 Nov 2009, 20:47 pm
there’s another reason that team was on a hiding too nothing, other than they had not played before and had 9 new caps, half of those selected have not played 80mins of first class rugby in the last 6 months.
Ralapalle, Dup, Rossouw and Becker have mostly been on the bench. Raubenheimer and Johnson have not even played S14 let alone test matches.
8 Nov 2009, 20:48 pm
I have been waiting for this headline for a bloody year….skoppie i almost fell off my chair when i saw your post….man this is xmas come early for me…
Precedent now set…bring on Frans Steyn, JDV , and BJ as well!
8 Nov 2009, 20:49 pm
#98 Puma: Selections is what it all boild down to
Remember Markgraaf that picked Tobie Oosthuizen, never heard of him again
You take the best and blood young ones around the experience-None of those guys learned anything on Friday, except that Leicester has great curry houses
8 Nov 2009, 20:50 pm
#102 JL1:
spot on
8 Nov 2009, 20:51 pm
#101 grant10: Not a chance he selected James befoe and never again
This is an exception to the rule I would say
8 Nov 2009, 20:52 pm
End of the road for a few players after the friday fiasco….with that jersey comes responsibility and accountability….i have some serious reservations about a few players there….
Seems that a few reputations were destroyed….may be a long steep path back i reckon.
8 Nov 2009, 20:53 pm
#98 Puma: Did you hear the caller on All Out Rugby relate the radio interview with PdV, in which Hugh Bladen asked him why Joe Pietersen had not been selected. PdV responded “Who’s Joe Pietersen”. When he was told he was WP fullback, PdV said it wasn’t his business to follow WP rugby. What an idiot!
8 Nov 2009, 20:54 pm
#65 WP_: Yes have to agree again.
8 Nov 2009, 20:55 pm
1. Gurthro (Heinke) 2. Liebenberg 3. CJ (WP) 4. Sykes 5. Rossouw (Alberts) 6. Potgieter 7. Deysel (Louw) 8. Alberts (Vermeulen)
Thats a NH Bok midweek pack that would have beaten anyone.
8 Nov 2009, 20:56 pm
#104 JL1: Ja….i know…but dreams are good friends!!
I have been calling for CJ to return for a year….just enjoying the moment!!
But i seriously believe we need to embrace the reality…players will play overseas…and perhaps we need to become a bit more flexible here…..
I am kakking myself for the french and irish in particular…perhaps even italians will not fear us…..
Now if we had Frans Steyn, JDV …would feel a lot more comfortable. Those are world class players…not easily replaceable…
8 Nov 2009, 20:57 pm
#106 Sidewinder: YES, Damn that was terrible. How could PdV not even know who J. Pietersen is. All those callers felt the same as me and probably the whole country. The selections that cost us. Why not select the best to tour? So very, very stupid. We missed the boat there. Would have seen who we had in our 2nd best side if any got a serious injury. Now we may never know and carry on selecting players that don’t make the grade.
8 Nov 2009, 20:58 pm
#108 cab: ashley johnson deserves a spot….he was outstanding
8 Nov 2009, 20:59 pm
Johnson came through fine from Friday. Adams did ok. Deysel also. Nokwe and Rose both had good games.
Only ones should be shattered by their performances are old stalwart palooka’s like Steenkamp, Du Plessis and Roussouw with Pienaar and Odwa Ndungane both having mare’s too.
None of the development players let the team down. Not Johnson or Nokwe or Adams or Rose or Viljoen or Hargreaves. Raubenheimer had a quiet game behind a losing tight 5 but so did Potgieter. It won’t shatter their confidence at all. The ones to get worried about are Steenkamp Du Plessis and Roussouw and Pienaar all seasoned JW Springbok’s who got rattled when push came to shove.
Bulls calling for Gary Botha a has been 2nd grade hooker shows their window dressing agenda outright now they jump on Mapoe cause Habana gone. Good opportunist window dresser’s they are too. Rassie should have signed Mapoe long before he chased Habana and Fourie.
Development is paramount in the game here and if Cc coaches won’t do it then national coach has to take the gamble and risk his credibility so you can crucify him about it. But the problem rests with the provincial franchises not developing players like Maku, Raubenheimer, Adams, Nokwe or Pienaar correctly so then they get thrown to the wolves on tours like these.
8 Nov 2009, 20:59 pm
#109 grant10: Grant we are going to miss JdV and Fransie huge. Adi just not playing like he was in 2008. Think that shoulder injury set him back huge.
8 Nov 2009, 20:59 pm
#110 Puma:
i dont think there is any TH in SA who can stay with castriogiavani, and the power of Bakkies and Bismarck, also increases the Boks firt XV immensely.
8 Nov 2009, 21:01 pm
#73 Puma: I think Zane Kirchner is an excellent full back. Good hands, good positional sense, brave, can kick. Deserves another chance.
8 Nov 2009, 21:02 pm
#110 Puma: It was just a prank interview on Darren’s breakfast show; Just Plain Breakfast!!
Someone imitating PdV.
8 Nov 2009, 21:03 pm
in a game defined by inches, typically fought for upfront in NH conditions, what you former backline coach potatoes fail to grasp is that the veterans have to try and make up the ground for every greenhorn in the pack.
this is precuisely why JL is right, you dont pick 9 new caps, you pick maybe 1 or 2, and more importantly you pick players who’ve played S14 – not thumbsucks, injuries, replacments or transformers – that is if you want to win of course.
8 Nov 2009, 21:07 pm
Johnson had quite a few solid runs, brute force stuff.
He won’t get away with that for long, guys going to read him and dump him.
Technically he was terrible.
8 Nov 2009, 21:08 pm
gary gold might be a clever analyst and reader of the game but he knows zip about real forward play, especially scrums.
we don’t need a coach for the lineouts, victor knows more than any coach worldwide. but, we sure as hell need a scrumming coach.
i can remember when balie swart was the scrumming coach at sharks – they stood back for nobody. now we are seeing the effect that os and proudfoot are instilling with cheetahs and wp.
why the hell can’t the boks get a scrumming coach?
we have 2 tenderfoots in beast and js in the front row and no specific coach.
arrogance or stupidity – i don’t know.
8 Nov 2009, 21:09 pm
great news this! but i wouldov been more happy if they gave bj botha a call instead, hes a better scrummager than cj but less mobile and influencial in the loose, give or take situation i gues, but give beasts exploits in the loose, id take bj instead
8 Nov 2009, 21:11 pm
@119 charo, couldnt agree with you more
8 Nov 2009, 21:11 pm
#112 skopskiet: You seem to forget that they were playing a club side that was missing 14 first choice players. The two centres were 18 and 19 years old. The one flank had to be borrowed from Nottingham, a second division team. There is no way the Boks should have lost to such opposition.
In the end, we learnt very little from the experience, just as we learnt very little in the 3rd Lions test. You have to develop young players by surrounding them with experience and slotting them into settled combinations. You can’t just throw them together and expect them to shine. Friday’s team was poorly selected. “Coming through” such a match proves nothing about a player’s ability to step up to the next level.
8 Nov 2009, 21:12 pm
#119 charo: PDV has called on the EX French tighthead …also Pieter de Villiers….and he will join boks tomorrow for the week to assist with scrums
8 Nov 2009, 21:12 pm
how many scrums were there?
it is important, but the bokke B were losing the collisions.
its all downhill from there.
8 Nov 2009, 21:13 pm
#115 SodaJoe: Zane is good but Frans Steyn is a lot better. Especially with that big boot.
Ag, he is gone now to Metro so have to forget him getting selected. Zane is our best there and probably J. Pietersen.
#114 cab: Not at this stage now. Agree with Bakkies and Victor in the Test side it does make a difference. You always notice when Bakkies goes off after 60min. Hope he can play for longer on Friday night.
Why so late the start there? Think it is 9.45pm our time and 8.45pm your time. Those French must enjoy playing at night. Like most of the games were in the WC unless it is for TV.
8 Nov 2009, 21:14 pm
#122 Sidewinder: Best post of the night. Agree 100%
8 Nov 2009, 21:15 pm
bu who do u guys think should be the scrum doctor, Os has obviously disagreed with pdv selections in the front row, and if memory serves me correct, he was against smits move to tighthead, unless he changes hes views i dunno, maybe Proudfoot?
8 Nov 2009, 21:16 pm
#109 grant10: Stuart Barnes reckon that the SA v France game could be a dress rehearsal for the 2011 RWC final
8 Nov 2009, 21:17 pm
#123 grant10:
hi grant – yes i saw that but it strikes me as a last minute knee jerk reaction.
the group needs a full time scrumming coach – especially if pdv is going to stick with js at 3 and beast at 1.
not just front row technical stuff, but full eight man shove, timing the hit – everything.
8 Nov 2009, 21:17 pm
#125 Puma:
victor makes buggeral difference to the collisions, in fact, if he does not carry his own versus france, we lose on sat also. he’s never been much chop on these EOY tours, far from the melktert.
8 Nov 2009, 21:17 pm
@ 123 grant 10, is that official boet?
8 Nov 2009, 21:18 pm
#119 charo: Howzit Charo, That is exactly what I said to G10 today. We need a specialist scrum coach. Not just a scrum coach for a week, but one until the world cup. I suggested Os too. The Cheetahs scrum has got to be the best in the country. Os has a lot to do with that. Bring him on board to the Boks and let him coach.
8 Nov 2009, 21:19 pm
#112 skopskiet: BS, PDV said resting players is not his business it is the CC coaches and S14 unions problem. He does not want to meddle, so the same should be for development
PDV should not use the iternational platform to development players
8 Nov 2009, 21:20 pm
#130 cab: hahaha. Cab I remember you saying those Bulls could do nothing without their melktert when the toured in the S14 this year. They won the S14 bud. Without Victor in the Lineout we wont have our greatest weapon there. We need him in the Boks side for sure.
8 Nov 2009, 21:20 pm
#124 cab: the 2 often go hand in hand cab…backfoot ball is a cancer….you go back…other team go forward….you get moered at the breakdown…..
Scrums are non negotiable…cannot ever allow a bok front row to be seen like last friday ever again…..saw highlights this afternoon….all 3 front row men injured….physically and mentally….it was carnage!
8 Nov 2009, 21:21 pm
#133 JL1: Well said.
8 Nov 2009, 21:22 pm
#130 cab: Bakkies loves playing against the French. I saw him the last time in Stade de France and he was the only forward shaping that day
It was cold, 2 degrees and snowing
8 Nov 2009, 21:22 pm
#127 Mustard: they have contracted the ex french tighthead …also called peter de villiers…he stays in stellenbosch now…joins boks tomorrow.
8 Nov 2009, 21:23 pm
#128 JL1: wow…KIWIS will kak themselves!!
8 Nov 2009, 21:23 pm
#134 Puma:
yup they stuffed the melktert up my keyster, but it def bakkies’ doing with the help of gurthro and dewald – the others too busy thinking of the heerlike terte (koeke en tannies) after the game.
8 Nov 2009, 21:24 pm
#138 grant10: Ja and I guess his French is a little bit better than Os with his English ek sê
8 Nov 2009, 21:25 pm
#137 JL1:
i hope so, am hoping the BBB clan (Bakkies, Burger and Bismarck) pitch up and dont do anything stoopid.
8 Nov 2009, 21:25 pm
#128 JL1: Well you never know but we play All Blacks in the Semi. If we get that far. I think we will. Then that is going to be a HUGE game playing ABs in their backyard. Very tough and sad that one of our teams will be out before the final. Would have loved a AB/Bok final.
It should always be worked out that the number one and two never meet in the semi but rather the final. More like the tennis and other sports do.
8 Nov 2009, 21:27 pm
#142 cab:
The BBB clan!! very funny had a good laugh there.
8 Nov 2009, 21:28 pm
#138 grant10: Peter de Villiers was a capable TH, nothing spectacular. Sending him instead of a top scrumming-coach is dicey. Besides Gold has guided the forwards to a few solid victories. Besides he can only work with what he is given.
8 Nov 2009, 21:28 pm
#140 cab:
Those Bulls got to give them credit. They were awesome this year and the final of the S14. They blew the Chiefs away good and solid.
8 Nov 2009, 21:29 pm
Remember Harry Viljoen selected Joe van Niekerk out of obscurity and Joe fitted straight into international rugby when SA didn’t even have such a strong team. That my friends is class.
Similarly Habana was selected after one Currie Cup at the Lions and whap-bang fitted right in to international rugby.
You can say what you like about Harry and Jake’s coaching, they did have a good eye for talent.
PDV may have been trying too hard mid-week to uncover another gem. It was perhaps a bit unfair on the players to be exposed in a mix-and-match team.
8 Nov 2009, 21:29 pm
#142 cab: They all owe us big games
OK Long post if you do not like it leave
France face South Africa in Toulouse, the nation’s rugby epicentre, on Friday. A rugby nation who have been plotting their course towards the next World Cup in 2011 against the world champions, who remain the best side in the world; halfway between the previous and the next World Cup this is “the turning point”, as the French coach, Marc Lievremont, describes the match.
The erratic selections that have been his trademark since he took over seem destined to be history. He has lost many games to find his framework but, after an away win in New Zealand in the summer, something solid is arising out of the wreckage of desperate defeats such as the 34-10 loss at Twickenham as recently as this year.
France have named a squad of 30 players. Only four of the initial selections were uncapped. The experimentation is almost over. “A group of 20-25 players is in place that works. We will gradually move towards 2011,” Lievremont says. Nothing franks the coach’s statement quite as much as the decision to remove Lionel Nallet — ” as a captain he was impeccable” — and replace him with the inspiring Toulouse flanker Thierry Dusautoir.
Lievremont no longer wants somebody to nurse a bewildering variety of young players; he wants a man to lead them to victories. Dusautoir is an outstanding candidate in an area of outstanding strength for France.
Related Links
Failing French put to the sword by Deans’ men
Chabal returns to French back row
Lievremont rings changes for England
If they are to beat the Springboks on Friday they will have to dominate one of South Africa’s strongest sectors, the back row. The injury to Pierre Spies is cause for French optimism but if Juan Smith overcomes his knee ligament problem South Africa will remain both powerful and balanced in the back row with Heinrich Brussow, arguably the flanker of 2009, and Ryan Kankowski complementing the wiles of Smith.
France also have glorious back-row talent. Their captain is an incredibly consistent performer but the outstanding individual performer is the moody Basque warrior Imanol Harinordoquy. He has sulked his way through some lean years but is back to his best — and setting new standards for himself — as one of the supreme lineout forwards and link players on the planet. The main worry for France is deciding who plays alongside these phenomenal performers.
If France wish to challenge the Victor Matfield lineout fiefdom, Fulgence Ouedraogo is the lithe option. If they decide to compete physically, Toulouse’s Louis Picamoles stands out. Picamoles plays as if hewn from marble, hard while also elegant, maybe not quite in the mould of a Rodin but tough on the tackler and easy on the eye; Lievremont has to make this core selection decision based on French strategy.
No side has dominated South Africa physically for some time but the Lions showed the scrum can be vulnerable. With William Servat an imposing hooker between Perpignan’s granite prop Nicolas Mas and Stade’s timeless Sylvain Marconnet, France might just fancy a full-on physical assault in, which case Pascal Pape starts in the second row with a charged-up Sebastien Chabal hurling himself into the fray for an hour or so. This promises to be a titanic forward battle in which France are capable of holding their own, inspired by the fanatical fans from their southwest heartlands.
Behind the scrum France also have a rising tide of talent. Maxime Mermoz is off the same production line that gave us Phillipe Sella and Yannick Jauzion while Maxime Medard is a chip off the Blanco block. Like the great man he makes errors but the brilliance of his attacking game and his vision mean he is a certain starter, with a host of flying wingers from whom to choose.
Scrum-half concerns have been eradicated with the emergence of Julien Dupuy as first choice and Morgan Parra a younger, contrasting back-up.
The one glaring weakness is at fly-half. Frederic Michalak has been recalled with the coach wistfully hoping he can reach his potential. Having already had 50 opportunities this is wishful thinking, which leaves France dependent on Francois Trinh-Duc. He was magnificent in the first Test victory against New Zealand but has to find the consistency and the control before the position can be considered anything but a relative weakness.
The Springboks themselves began the year with a quandary at fly-half but they have found, albeit reluctantly on the part of their coach Pieter de Villiers, a steady fly-half who happens to be a great goalkicker. In this season’s Tri-Nations Morne Steyn landed a stunning 29 from 33 attempts. The majestic series-winning kick against the Lions in Pretoria was a sighter for things to come.
France must keep the discipline with which Lievremont’s predecessor, Bernard Laporte, was obsessed and they will have to march the Springbok pack onto the back foot to prevent the world’s best rugby player, Fourie du Preez, from dictating the shape of the game from scrum-half. Du Preez, with Matfield and the captain, John Smit, will have to be wrapped in cotton wool to make 2011 but, if they are fit and raring to go by then, South Africa will be the team to beat, such is the vibrant talent simmering away.
New Zealand will probably crack under the pressure of internal expectations as World Cup hosts. And that could open the way for Friday night’s match to be repeated as the final in Auckland. The countdown to 2011 begins in Toulouse.
8 Nov 2009, 21:30 pm
#135 grant10:
you obviously have not been watching bok rugby for the last decade or so….i’ve been to twickenham virtually every time and have witnessed the bokke scrummed back into the carparck on every occasion apart fromn the last 2 years – you want to talk of embaressing – to get mullered by the pommeranians like that. hell, the best thing is just to keep silent, cos our scrumming has been a disaster. even cj and bj, our top props, aint exactly excelled upfront in the NH.
8 Nov 2009, 21:31 pm
#129 charo: Agree Charo….fully. I dont want to spark a lynching but i honestly believe the Smit at 3 move must be aborted….Time to get back to basics….lets rather embrace a true 3 and let Smitty do his thing from 2 or off the bench…
Smitty can cover 1 …2 and 3 in an emergency….
Seriously we need to get serious about our scrumming again…we have a master lineout….a match winning 9 and 19…a 8 amnd 6 that will be amazing if we scrum well….we havent seen the best of brussow and spies yet ….
I really believe last Fridays abortion can be the smack that we needed to wake up ….turn that negative into a positive by wising up…..
Kiwis gonna have Hayman back….French…poms…argies will target us at scrumunless we change our attitudes…now is the time i reckon.
I truly applaud PDV for this radical steps….but he mustmt stop now…he must sort this out 100%…and it may still offend some fans i am afraid!
8 Nov 2009, 21:31 pm
first it was the Lions, next it was the Tri-Nations and now you deny Peter a third time before the cockerel of France crows.
8 Nov 2009, 21:31 pm
these club teams are no walk overs. We seem to forget Munster took the full strength Ab’s to the wire. Connaught gave our Wc 2007 team a fright. Leicester had some seasoned international professionals in the side like Mauger, the front row, Tuilagi, the scrum half and the full back.
I’m not suggesting it was a well selected side we played. But it was a development side needing exposure. It was a gamble that didn’t come off and thankfully it happened early on the tour so the remedial action can take place. Int touring sides have lost to club sides before playing first choice selections. We can be glad it was not Smit and Beast exposed by that Leicester front row because what would you guys had said then if Smitty and Beast were destroyed by that 2nd grade club side.
I stand by De Villiers stance that development players are not given proper opportunity in our domestic competitions. He was at fault under estimating the Nh club rugby strength but so was JW before being big bok before playing Ireland and losing. . Twice.
The development players like Adams, Viljoen, Johnson, Hargreaves I still stand behind. Its the rest of the old staid setup that needs an overhaul. I’m afraid for Smit and Beast next. Because they would have been drilled just as badly as Gurthro and J. Dup.
8 Nov 2009, 21:32 pm
this was obviously last resort by divvy, it does set a precedent though going forward, i wonder if he’l change hes stance on foreign based players, say for instance adi gets injured or flops as badly as Jdp, would he call on Jdv, we’l wait and see
8 Nov 2009, 21:33 pm
#130 cab: LOL
#131 Mustard: YIP
8 Nov 2009, 21:33 pm
#148 JL1:
interesting, shows what it means to the french.
yessus i might have problems accepting a loss after this great year.
Come on, skopgat Bokke, one more asb.
8 Nov 2009, 21:35 pm
#145 Kronung: YES…but he is French and knows those players well i suppose…so should help.
8 Nov 2009, 21:36 pm
#155 cab: We must win, I am also going to Ireland and need a Croke Park win, I have not had a win in France against the French or Ireland in Ireland so please let it be this time
8 Nov 2009, 21:36 pm
#152 skopskiet: Waka says that was not a full strength ABs side. I agree with him they had already lost about 16 players to NH before the Tri-Nations last year. So it was not their full strength side. ABs still trying to recover from losing so many of their players to NH last year.
8 Nov 2009, 21:37 pm
#158 Puma: Sorry meant to say Not a full strength Ab side that played Munster last year.
8 Nov 2009, 21:38 pm
Bokke can no longer afford the luxury of Barney for his skipper talents alone.
8 Nov 2009, 21:39 pm
#157 JL1: Lucky you going to Croke Park. Enjoy it.
We just seem to struggle agains the French in France. Need to beat them and Ireland then we finish on a high this year.
8 Nov 2009, 21:40 pm
#157 JL1:
yes that would be bladdy great, i just hope they can hold together, they normally buggered by this time, and its been even heavier this year.
8 Nov 2009, 21:42 pm
#149 cab: been watching and studying religiously since 1976…agree we not great at scrumming….but really cab this year the weakness has been glaringly obvious…despite the wonderful season….
We cannot say its always been like that so lets live with it….
We have to try and get parity….the professional era we cant rely on our backs and lineouts only….
My whole debate has been lets see where and how we can improve…thats all…
8 Nov 2009, 21:44 pm
#163 grant10:
i say keep smittie where he is, who knows, maybe he shows all u doubting thomases a thing or two one more time?
8 Nov 2009, 21:45 pm
CJ hasn’t had a lot of rugby in truth, don’t think he’s played a full game. Can’t wait to see the France forward line-up, unlike NZ and Aus they have the forwards to make it a war, if they select them.
8 Nov 2009, 21:46 pm
#160 Kronung: amen….
8 Nov 2009, 21:46 pm
#164 cab: “who knows maybe” is the part that worries me………..
8 Nov 2009, 21:46 pm
after watching fridays game again, iv noticed one thing about the breakdown, NH sides commit much more players to the breakdown, and on heavier fields a fetcher wouldnt be as effective if he doesnt have some help. Thats why im pleased burger is playing with brussouw, and they both should play towards the ball not brussouw alone, and bakkies should keep hitting those dam rucks like hes life depends on it, otherwise dussetoir (sp?) gona gives huge headaches
8 Nov 2009, 21:47 pm
#162 cab: Same as the ABs the eoyt take it out of the players, should send Emerging Boks
England and Wales have always send second stringers and then they get clapped and claim that they are developing players
Yet they still never win
8 Nov 2009, 21:48 pm
#164 cab: i just dont believe its possible cab….it would be fantastic…but the odds are stacked against him….I sincerely believe he should revert to 2….or bench.
8 Nov 2009, 21:49 pm
#165 Big Hit: That does my nerves no good!!
Hi Bh…xmas come early for me my man!!
8 Nov 2009, 21:50 pm
#164 cab:
#168 Mustard: Agree there. Hope that Deysel is on the bench. He does a lot of fetching for the Sharks. He and Brussow would work well together too. Though pleased that Burger is playing at 7 we need some real hard men out there. Deysel is a good back up if Burger gets injured.
8 Nov 2009, 21:51 pm
#168 Mustard: yea….gotta commit to the rucks…no showboating….someone please tell kanko!!
8 Nov 2009, 21:53 pm
#133 JL1: since when is development here Bs. It is incumbent on Pdv as national coach to ensure that development takes place. Some you guys sitting up there in your cushie European hidy holes don’t seem to realise the reality on the ground. We have to try keep on winning but we have to promote development also. If Cc and S14 coaches are too bang to do it then Pdv has to take it on the chin and do it instead.
I stand behind him 100% in this cause even if such 2nd grade two face supporters who run for the hills first chance they get or want lily white boer and brandewyn teams representing their country like Puma or WP or yourself or whoever the cap fits don’t.
Its still a prerequisite on the mandate to develop players from all over the demographics of the country so the Cc coaches better get to grips with the program and get down to it else we could face what nobody wants and that is a sliding scale of standards forced upon the situation.
8 Nov 2009, 21:54 pm
#172 Puma: Deysel seems to be getting pinged once to often in kickable positions?
8 Nov 2009, 21:54 pm
i see Dan Carter been cited for high tackle…never saw the game so cant comment.
8 Nov 2009, 21:54 pm
grant10, id play danie at 8 instead of kanko, but thats a whole otha debate
8 Nov 2009, 21:58 pm
#177 Mustard: Yep, spot on. Might give Skopskiet a hernia, but the right call none the less.
8 Nov 2009, 21:59 pm
About the developmentand transformation….would be great if we could get the Southern Kings a franchise…..then ‘force’ the franchises that are keeping the Makus, Chilliboys, Roses, Floors,etc to release those players for the duration of the super 14 to the Kings….it is a huge dilemma having these okes sitting on the bench all the time. I see Lions doing a deal for Maku….
Mametsa…tiger Mangweni also good players who just dont get to play!!
There are enough players…problem is the actual game time.
8 Nov 2009, 21:59 pm
#178 Kronung: Kanko is an impact player, bring him on at 60-minutes.
8 Nov 2009, 22:00 pm
#175 Kronung: I would still have him on the bench. One of the better players on Friday night. Made a bit of a difference when he came on.
Think they will have Danie on the bench though. Or maybe to start instead of Kanko. Have to see the selections. Not sure when that will be released.
They only leave tomorrow night. I know Kobus on the chat show tonight had a problem with that. I don’t at all. Think it is a brilliant idea. They will still have the altitude conditioning in them this weekend. That will give them more lung and leg power, wont tire as easy. Then by the following week it will be lost but at least will have it for the French game.
8 Nov 2009, 22:01 pm
#174 skopskiet: Did he sign up for a transformation team or a winning team?
Development is taking place, you just go down to Craven week and see how many players are getting opportunities,after that is where there is a breakdown. How many players have the discipline to keep going after that. Tybilika (spelling) Owen Nkumane, Lawrence Sephaka etc etc etc etc etc etc where did they all go to
All the coaches in the S14 give players a chance- Raubenheimer for example will not get a look in at the Cheetahs S14, WHY because they have half a dozen better players in those position than him, so why pick him then for a national side
Mapoe is there (in the Cheetahs team) on his ability, but NO!! Piet reckons he knows what he has in him and will not select him
Where were the players that played for the Emerging Boks
This man has not a plan but reacts on instinct due to losses and injuries and that is about all
8 Nov 2009, 22:01 pm
#177 Mustard: If wet perhaps….i would understand your reasoning….
Personally i rate Dewalt Potgieter highly….he would be my 8 before Kanko if its an attritional war…which i believe it will be.
8 Nov 2009, 22:02 pm
#176 grant10: Not much in it. Should have been a penalty. Can’t remember if one was given. Linesman may have told Joubert afterwards, as he missed it at the time. Really can’t remember. But not really worth a card. It was accidental.
8 Nov 2009, 22:03 pm
#179 grant10: and you could say that about many white players warming benches in SA-Kockott is one surely he could also be developed the same as Heinie Adams? Or does he need a tan, a frizz and a tease in his hair?
8 Nov 2009, 22:03 pm
anyone ahead of Kanko but preferably not Danie. Dusetoir and his musketeers will have both Kanko or D. Roussouw for breakfast unfortunately. Might have to resort to a Brussow Deysel Burger combination if all else fails.
8 Nov 2009, 22:05 pm
Kanko deserves his shot. A couple of seasons back he had an awesome Super 14 and the Kiwis were raving about him. I know this is Test rugby in the north, but give him a shot. Burger is no number 8.
8 Nov 2009, 22:06 pm
#186 skopskiet: ja-nee, Kanko needs more mielie pap before he could stand up and be counted
8 Nov 2009, 22:06 pm
#176 grant10: He did do a high tackle. Let see what happens.
If it was the high tackle I am thinking about, damn those Welsh must have shown it over about 30 times
They just kept on going on why the ref missed it and said that would have changed the game and they could have won. Oh bugger, had to have a laugh. The ref was way out of sight of it.
Also that run away try near the end. That welsh guy was just sooooooooooooooooooooooo slow otherwise should have gone over for a try and he also had no back up. Was way in front but got caught by a AB player.
Jeepers they can moan up north
8 Nov 2009, 22:07 pm
Also, Danie has never let the Boks down at number 8 in the NH. Haven’t watched the Leicester game yet, but am about to. Reserve judgment on him until then.
8 Nov 2009, 22:07 pm
#174 skopskiet: the problem is that development from the top-down is not sustainable; the transformation only lasts as long as the player, which in international rugby amounts to on average about 5 years.
Bottom-up grassroots development is the only way to initiate any meaningful representation, because the focus is on long-lived infrastructure rather than picking a few individuals each year
8 Nov 2009, 22:08 pm
#187 kaksioek: Agree give Kanko a chance. He did play great in that game end of year against the Welsh. Scored a try too.
8 Nov 2009, 22:08 pm
#192 Puma: Was end of 2007
8 Nov 2009, 22:08 pm
#174 skopskiet: This was the Emerging Boks Squad v BIL:
Jacques Botes, Jean Deysel, Wian du Preez, Werner Kruger, Patrick Cilliers, Tiaan Liebenberg, Bandisa Maku, Dewald Potgieter (c), Wilhelm Steenkamp, Steven Sykes, Franco van der Merwe, Duane Vermeulen, Heini Adams, Bjorn Basson, Willem de Waal, Zane Kirchner, Danwel Demas, Morgan Newman, Earl Rose, Deon van Rensburg, Jano Vermaak, Luzuko Vulindlu.
So why are they not there combined with the experience??
8 Nov 2009, 22:09 pm
#192 Puma: Of course, you’re also a Sharks supporter, aren’t you?
8 Nov 2009, 22:09 pm
#164 cab: grant thinks Leicester were providing some divine intervention for the Springbok team
#171 grant10: evening grant, I wouldn’t worry, they’re French so their selection will probably be wacky and not even consider the opposition. No one understands the frogs and they don’t understand us, that’s why they call them unpredictable
8 Nov 2009, 22:10 pm
No fighting with me now chaps…but here is my team for French test if i am coach….
[ fark i am heading for the trench as i type! ]
15 Kirchner
14 JPP
13 J FOURIE
12 ADI
11 HABANA
10 M STEYN
9 FDP
8 DEWALT POTGIETER
7 SCHALK
6 BRUSSOW
5 MATFIELD
4 BAKKIES
3 CJ
2 J SMIT
1 WIAAN DU PREEZ
16 BEAST
17 D ROSSOW
18 BISMARCK
19 J DEYSEL
20 kanko
21 r pienaar
22 w olivier
Bring it on frogs!
Bring it on Frogs
8 Nov 2009, 22:10 pm
#190 kaksioek: I say again good call with Kanko on at 60.
Brussouw, Burger, Danie – not to be taken lightly.
8 Nov 2009, 22:10 pm
#182 JL1: Well said JL1 agree with your post there.
8 Nov 2009, 22:10 pm
‘It is unfortunate that we have lost three players so early in the tour but that is part of the game and we have to be able to manage such setbacks.’
Actually no it is not ‘unfortunate’ as chilliboy was already injured and should never have played. And the other two were out of their depth and badly coached.
8 Nov 2009, 22:11 pm
Just to clear it up, Munster put out their reserve team shorn of all their Irish internationals. NZ put out their midweek team + Roko, same as the Boks. However unlike the Boks they put insurance All Blacks like Thorn on the bench to steal the result late on.
8 Nov 2009, 22:11 pm
#185 JL1: ja…its a complex issue
8 Nov 2009, 22:11 pm
#193 Puma: Yes:
Ryan made his test match debut in the Springbok’s 34-12 victory over Wales at the Millennium Stadium on 24 November 2007, crossing the line for his team’s 5th try to secure a resounding victory to start their reign as World Champions.
8 Nov 2009, 22:12 pm
So when three guys get injured we finally pick the logical choice…
8 Nov 2009, 22:13 pm
#197 grant10: Potgieter is noty an 8th man – not big enough or tall enough. Two traditional strengths of an 8th man.
Rather Vermeulen or Frans Viljoen (or even big Joe). Actually after Ashley Johnsons displayon Friday, I really have not obkjections to him being there either.
/he was teh only player (besides Bekker) that enhanced their reputation.
8 Nov 2009, 22:15 pm
#198 Kronung: That would probably be very effective. I would still be tempted to start with Kanko though. Maybe not against the Poms (who we aren’t playing) or the Irish (who we are), but against the French I think he could do well. Still, it is the NH, so Danie would be a banker.
8 Nov 2009, 22:15 pm
#205 SjamBok: ashleighs time will come….i look forward to seeing him in super 14 next year….
Anyway…i am over the moon with cj back…
Outta here
Nite all
8 Nov 2009, 22:16 pm
Adams far better scrum half than Kockott. I would also have selected Mapoe ahead of Ndungane but Ndungane like Gurthro and others were seasoned bok’s ahead of him.
I would never have selected Bosman, Le Grange or Grant ahead of him. Viljoen I would play before Kirchner.
Tybilika was Jakes way of avoiding Watson, so was Floors. When Schalk and Bakkies were injured Jake played Danie and Cronje and Joe van Niekerk and Juan Smith and lost 49-0. That was with Os, CJ and Smit in the front row and Matfield cv lock. So every coach has his blind spots. Raubenheimer will get another look in and so will others like Johnson and Adams and Hargreaves. Pity is Adams was never used before because he’s been warming the Bulls bench behind Fdp for 5 seasons already.
If they not prepared to develop the players lower down the order then prepare for a lowering of standards, those are the risks and the parameters at stake. Close your eyes to it all you like, those are the realities in the circumstances.
8 Nov 2009, 22:16 pm
Cheers Grant. Me too out of here now. Cheers all.
8 Nov 2009, 22:18 pm
G’night everyone
8 Nov 2009, 22:20 pm
#197 grant10: David in the centre is a bit of a monster if selected to go up against Adi, Mermoz showing magic in recent weeks with Perp.
8 Nov 2009, 22:22 pm
#210 kaksioek: Cheers Kaksioek.
8 Nov 2009, 22:34 pm
Potgieter is good but maybe still a bit lightweight at the moment. It doesnt help when he is asked to play openside neither
8 Nov 2009, 22:37 pm
#191 ali:
Spot on Ali thats why the Cc franchises should be taken to task for not developing these players that are shining in the craven week comp and then fall through the cracks at provincial level. It should not be the national coaches task to develop these players but if the Cc or franchise coaches are not doing it then he has to take the gambles and the risks that go along with the challenge of bringing these players up to int standard.
8 Nov 2009, 22:46 pm
#8 skopskiet: So explain to me why PdV must have his arm twisted behind his back every time before he sees the light. If these are his selections then he must stick to coaching and leave talent spotting to those who can. Or call this the Experimental Boks and play them as such. But he is playing with fire if he thinks the Bok supporterss are going to just allow the ******** around with the Bok name like this.
I (and I suspect many other fans) HATE the fact that the Leicester fans can now say that they beat the Trinations and RWC champs. We all know that this was a badly coached 3rd string side, but history books don’t reflect that. F#%$#CK!
Where the Bok name is concerned, there is no room for shoddiness. AT ALL. The Bok means excellence.
How do the coaches think the senior players and ex-players feel about having put in all the work to make the Bok name respected again, so that they can treat it like they just got it in a F@#%$ING lucky packet at the corner cafe?
It is NOT F@#%#$ ACCEPTABLE!!
The coaches expect excellence from the players, but in return, the fans expect the same from the coaches. The excuses about lack of time together and bad slections are just a reflection on a badly planned and badly handled campaign.
8 Nov 2009, 22:49 pm
#214 skopskiet: Ultimately it comes down to poor talent identification. not many provinces look past their traditional feeder clubs/schools, mainly because with so many talented players there is no need to go past the status quo. to use WP as an example, almost every local player has come from maties, with universities such as UWC totally ignored. i suspect this may be the case elsewhere as well.
just think, somewhere out there, probably in the EC, is our very own Dan Carter playing in some obscure club. we’ll just never find him because of zero impetus on the part of lazy unions
8 Nov 2009, 22:54 pm
#122 Sidewinder: This is exactly right.
8 Nov 2009, 22:58 pm
#215 SjamBok: well prepare to continually tear your hair out! Coaches have previously cheapened the springbok name by selecting 2nd string teams to go to new zealand & play in the tri-nations & used the world cup as the reason for leaving out some players.
i can’t imagine how you felt when the springboks were belted 49-0, lol…
everyone here always agrees that the coach must build depth going into 2011 but when he does it, they moan & wail like widowed housewives.
8 Nov 2009, 23:01 pm
#148 JL1: Eish it’s a good team. All over the park.
WE will do very well to win. Very well.
We need the assassin at 10 to be at his best.
Adi at 12 is a huge worry for me.
8 Nov 2009, 23:02 pm
#205 SjamBok: Shimmie – the only thing we can read from a game against a CLUB team without their English internationals is this – the rubbish were diabolical. The good were only good against a CLUB team.
8 Nov 2009, 23:34 pm
#218 Transformation: Are you stupid or just an bloody idiot. Whatever happened in the past does not justify wrong doings of the now.
You are such a donkey.
8 Nov 2009, 23:54 pm
#221 Balletjies: lol…hayi, i’ve never been called donkey before it’s a first!!
Who said anything about “justifying”? Ungabo khamisa utyhale sibhanxa!!!!!!!
8 Nov 2009, 23:56 pm
#130 cab:
Victor Matfield…..man of the match, worldcup final 2007.
Not much impact?
9 Nov 2009, 00:01 am
#214 skopskiet:
you do realize that there are only 15 players in a rugby side?
are cc coaches expected to drop senior players every year to accomodate craven week players?
9 Nov 2009, 00:07 am
#201 Big Hit:
Yep Thorn came out and saved the day for NZ,dont be a stupid fool.
And of course thanks to Munsters Kiwis they came close in beating NZ
9 Nov 2009, 00:07 am
#223 Brigadier Van Zyl:
i think he’s probably the most naturally talented lock to ever play, no-one can touch him in the air, he’s got the pace of a wing, great hands, unbeliebavle anticipation and rugby brain and gets through alot of tackles when needs be.
however, he can rest on his laurels at times imo and is more than aware of his own value – which at times, esp in lesser matches, makes him tend to coast a bit when what is required is a full committment from all to the b/d contest.
this is why JW was also relucantant to get his buy-in originally.
9 Nov 2009, 00:09 am
On the matter of CJ’s inclusion. As far as I can remember PdV always stated that he would select a overseas based player ONLY IF THERE IS NO ONE IN SA that HE FEELS can do the job for him. Now, one might feel a bit sorry for WP Nel, but do we really want the kid to go and play against the French, Ireland and Italy at this stage? In CJ we have someone who played more than 50 tests and who knows the conditions over there. I therefore don’t think that PdV has created a precedent by selecting him. Think back to the selection of Butch James in 2008, who was also an overseas based player at the time when PdV selected him.
As far as calling on other overseas players like F. Steyn and JdV, it is obvious that PdV feels that he has adequate cover in Kirchner and Pienaar (for Steyn)and Adi and Meisiekind (for JdV). Therefore he will not call on them.
What do you guys think will happen to our local game if the likes of F. du Preez, Bismarck, Beast, HB, Spies, Scalk, Habana, Mossie, JPP, and M. Steyn all feel that they are the no. 1 choices in their respective positions and all of them sign overseas contracts with the believe that they must be/will be selected for the Bok team?
9 Nov 2009, 00:13 am
#224 Brigadier Van Zyl:i think skop was talking about the apparent lack of faith shown by the cc coaches towards some players. For example the limited gametime vulindlu has had @ centre vs numerous opportunities for rubbish like strauss & swannie?
9 Nov 2009, 00:35 am
#228 Transformation: It is more a case of selecting the better rubbish: Strauss vs. Vulindlu.
9 Nov 2009, 07:27 am
Grant must be a happy chappy this morning…!!
Why are people jumping on PdViva? He is not the first coach who said he would not select players playing overseas…
All coaches announce ‘their policies’ and how things will be done under their watch etc… Most coaches have a few players they don’t rate even while the public rates them highly…
What PdV deserves credit for is being mature enough and man to acknowledge mistakes and correct them… unlike most of his predecessors who stuck to their guns bloody-mindedly right until the very end…
Well done PdViva!
Congratulations CJ!!
9 Nov 2009, 07:29 am
It’s a combo of mumble jumble and confusion
CJ is a LH, he can cover for a TH too but his preferred Test position is the LH
Now, was he called up to be the back up for the Beast? that by itself is a humilation for a great Test prop
And what about Heineke v.d. Merwe, he is a superb LH, where will he slot in this set up?
Or, was CJ called up to be the back up for JS? that’s must be a joke, BJ is the best S African TH.
And then, is Strauss expected to be behind Maku in the pecking order, another humilation.
Wiam Du Preez the only one who plays this game as a pro: he goes to Ireland while saying all the right things
9 Nov 2009, 07:45 am
#231 Hondo:
under Jake White CJ covered both positions… everyone thought it was cool at the time and proved how good CJ is…
everyone’s been shouting about picking CJ (and BJ)… now that they get their wish… but suddenly PdV’s wrong for picking CJ???
You guys shift the goal-posts quicker than the swirling Cape wind…
9 Nov 2009, 07:47 am
#231 Hondo: CJ has played tighthead throughout Jake Whites reign so i think he is experienced enough and his ability in the loose has far more impact than BJ – i think this is a good call by Pdivvy
9 Nov 2009, 08:11 am
Morning all
See arcticle on Superrugby….PDV states categorically that CJ has been chosen as a specialist tighthead.
The end of an era in sight….watch this space gents….
I called the end of schalk as an opensider….
J Smit wont last at 3…his role will be redefined…remember BJ also on record he will be back prior to 2011 to compete for 3 jersey.
It is the right step for our rugby…simply could not let such a fundamental facet of the game be neglected as we have done …..
Last Friday served a healthy reminder of that point.
9 Nov 2009, 08:19 am
#234 grant10: I saw the predicted French line-up, doesn’t appear to be a very big pack.
9 Nov 2009, 08:27 am
Which Northern hemisphere traitor voted that the French would win by 7 ?
9 Nov 2009, 08:28 am
#234 grant10: So are you suggesting returning Smit to hooker – you need Smit for his captaincy no doubt about it.
9 Nov 2009, 08:29 am
#236 stew: well it wasn’t me, I haven’t seen the poll yet. I would’ve backed France if they had selected a big pack but it seems they’re going with mobile units, it’s a 50/50 game for me now.
9 Nov 2009, 08:40 am
#234 grant10:
I don’t know if you missed the report, but SARU had invited CJ to be part of the Bok squad almost 2 months ago. They also stated that he hadn’t responded by the deadline they’d set, and didn’t know whether he was interested in making himself available.
9 Nov 2009, 08:46 am
#235 Big Hit: Interesting…i thought they would have wanted to attack us in set scrums and bank on the Bok’fatigue’ factor….perhaps they looking at our new midfield and reckon they can run at us as well?
#237 stew: Either that or a supersub type role….remember he can do the 1….2….and 3 jobs…
#239 David: I knew he was in the mix but i think the injury and the contract was a problem
Dont like to spread gossip but i can tell you BJ Botha also left Sharks a bit pi ssed off…leave you to work out the detail…
9 Nov 2009, 08:48 am
#236 stew: Perhaps that traitor predicting with his head as opposed to his heart??
9 Nov 2009, 08:55 am
#232 ufo:
He is not wrong
I asked 3 questions and have no answer, did they pick him up as a reserve?
9 Nov 2009, 08:59 am
#233 stew:
CJ is better than either JS or the Beast at their respective positions
BJ is a better TH than CJ
now, please explain, is CJ called up to be a sub for JS nad the Beast?
That’s a joke, unless CJ was assured of a Test spot he shouldn’t agree to join the Boks, that’s my opinion.
9 Nov 2009, 09:01 am
#231 Hondo:
CJ is the perfect bench replacement as he can cover both 1 and 3 if needed.
Does anyone know when the new 8 man (mandatory 3 front row replacements) bench rules come into effect?
9 Nov 2009, 09:01 am
#236 stew:
Too early, we neede to see if the quota lords have their say in the Boks team’s selection, any speculation now is futile
9 Nov 2009, 09:05 am
#244 David:
Nonsense
he is a far better prop than JS and the Beast will ever be tzusamen, selecting to the bench your A option to be a back up for two C options is a kinky, distorted mind
Or PdV’s mind for that matter.
9 Nov 2009, 09:10 am
The team that lost on friday lost because they did have enough time to prepare and they were playing together for the 1st time,its got nothing to do with the selections,why do you think the Barbarians struggle all the time?I remember a couple of years back they had Richie McCaw,John Smit,Jerry Collins,Schalk Burger but they still got pasted.Its a fact of life if you dont have enough time to prepare you will fail no matter how good you are.
9 Nov 2009, 09:52 am
I don’t understand why WP Nel was not called up with his front-row partners. This makes little sense.
9 Nov 2009, 22:01 pm
This should be interesting if CJ starts, Healy(new Irish Prop) apparently was CJ’s understudy until he got injured. Actually Healy attributes most of his skills to Springbok props. He considers Ollie Le Roux his mentor and now CJ. Should be great fun to see them up against each other.
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