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9 Nov 2009
The midweek Boks paid the price for Peter de Villiers’s selection policy, writes Keo in his weekly Business Day column.
Why the shock that a Leicester mix and match XV should so embarrass a South African Vodacom Cup XV parading as the Springboks?
The selections were terrible, as they were when the Springbok selectors looked to the future in the third and final Test against the British & Irish Lions and were similarly embarrassed.
At times too much is made of the future, and this is one of those times. Let’s focus on what happens in 2009 before wondering how our rugby will be in 2012, let alone the 2011 World Cup year.
The best players in the Currie Cup were not selected for the midweek side’s two matches in England. Coach Peter de Villiers wanted to make a statement about transformation and also about the fact that the provincial coaches are getting it wrong and he is getting it right. On both counts he failed, although to blame him for the defeat is wrong, as he had nothing to do with the coaching of the team, if you can call three sessions coaching the team.
Touring teams always struggle in the first fortnight of a tour and that is why so many of the success stories on end of year tours relate to national coaches investing in those who have succeeded as a unit in the domestic season. That way a national coach does not have to reinvent the wheel and does not have to try and teach players a specific approach in two or three training runs. The national coach trusts that he can tweak a provincial formula that has been successful and invests in the familiarity players get when they have functioned in a unit for the last six months.
De Villiers and his selectors did neither and paid the price for holding a trial game to assess how good the reserve depth is, which in itself was ridiculous because Leicester, by way of England commitments, another league match on Sunday and injuries, played without 12 first team regulars. For these imposter Boks to have lost to the best Leicester has on contract would not be a surprise, but to have been bullied and outthought by a couple of former All Blacks, a few other imports and mostly an Academy team is humiliating.
The Bok scrum disintegrated and hooker Chiliboy Ralepelle’s reputation took as big a beating. Ralepelle was supposed to be one of the new generation of South African player who would only be judged on ability because he was that good as a 19 year-old, but political agendas have again turned a quality talent into a professional quota. It is sickening.
Ralepelle should not have been on tour and belatedly Adriaan Strauss and Wian du Preez of the Cheetahs have been summoned to England to replace Ralepelle and Gurthro Steenkamp.
What does the Leicester defeat say about the depth of player outside the marvelous Bok Test XV that has dominated world rugby for the past few years? It says nothing because what we saw was not the next best on show. You could have picked any one of the Currie Cup semi-finalists as a unit and they would have thumped what Leicester put out as a team. Why is it that so often the Springbok midweek team does not reflect the best fringe players? It is not just something unique to the current coach and his selectors. We’ve seen this horror movie so many times.
If a national coach wants to take an Emerging team abroad then do so, but don’t call them the Springboks because Leicester, as an example, now have the famous Springbok head as a scalp in the clubhouse. It should never have been so.
The defeat does not influence anything in relation to Friday evening’s Test against France because the real Springboks will be playing in Toulouse, although the depth test here is more accurate because what will be answered is if the Boks have the same fluidity, stability and direction without Frans Steyn’s boot at the back, Jean de Villiers’s organization in the midfield and the power of Juan Smith and Pierre Spies in the back row.
This will be the Springboks’ toughest test of the year and to win they will have to play as well or better than at any stage this season. France are the best of the northern hemisphere teams and playing in Toulouse on a Friday night certainly gives the a greater advantage than the neutrality so often experienced at the Stade de France in St Denis, just outside Paris.
The Boks love that ground, but they’ve never played in Toulouse, which makes the decision to arrive in Toulouse 36 hours before kick-off even more of a risk.
170 Comments
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9 Nov 2009, 15:53 pm
What really blows my mind is the transparency of what’s going on here.
We’re not talking a couple of contentious, debatable selections that the coach may or may not have got wrong. We’re talking third, fourth and fifth choice players making up the bulk of the team, with an obvious political agenda. No rugby fan in SA – and no rugby coach, player or administrator in the world – believes that this was even remotely a second-best-boks team. So I’m not sure who the weak explanations and justifications by Div and **** are aimed at.
It seems to be the Sêffrican way though – do the unthinkable and then offer up some lame, stock standard excuse that you know will not be bought, but who cares? Because hey, you’re untouchable. Think Ministerial Handbook on spending, think ESKOM and SABC bonuses and pay-outs, think crime stats spin-doctoring, think BRT overspending, think blue light brigade intimidation.
We (the people) simply don’t have the clout or the balls to turn our indignation into action. So we mutter angrily about Div fcking the once-proud Springbok up the nought, but we’re as helpless in stopping this barbaric act of bestiality as we are at stopping the ministas from pulling poor Div’s strings.
9 Nov 2009, 15:53 pm
#97 Bokpoot:
guthro,potgieter,roussow and olivier played a CC final 6 days earlier.
Adams stayed on the bench for the final.
Ralapele wasn’t even fit for the final.Maku played 10 minutes or so?
9 Nov 2009, 15:54 pm
going to be one hellava game this friday against france, but it is going to be interesting to see who makes the bench and whether PdV actually selects players who can play 1st team rugby and not those who’ve been watching on the sidelines for most of the yr
9 Nov 2009, 15:58 pm
#71 John1976: serious??, we shouldn’t allow these people to do that to our bokke, I love these braai sessions where the real truth always comes out, dont you?
9 Nov 2009, 16:01 pm
#86 toughnrumble: It is a pity you caught me out before I just could use the phrases “everybody knows” or “everyone will tell you” in my post. Those phrases are the ultimate fall backs that are used on this site when there is no facts to support your argument.
9 Nov 2009, 16:06 pm
#101 katman: “barbaric act of bestiality”
9 Nov 2009, 16:18 pm
#106 AndrewBK: Wonderful phrase in a succinct paragraph of rugby prose
9 Nov 2009, 16:23 pm
#101 katman:
lol, yes, but i dont blame The Greatest, the problem is the ridiculous system that has been foist upon him and sold with ‘merit-only’ BS rhetroic and/or the S14 coaches who are unwilling to pick more of these S14 players.
I dunno if transformation is still deserved or not, but this **** about ‘merit-only’ is total and utter propaganda and the midweek team is not the 2nd best in SA, anyone with any brain can quite obviously see that.
9 Nov 2009, 16:32 pm
#98 Sharksgirl: Look, it may be true that no 10 is not Ruan’s preferred spot, but there are several counter-arguments:
1. How long can you continue to rely on the “out of position” excuse before you expose yourself to the rebuttal that you’ve had plenty of time to acclimatise, and now get your mind right and get on with it? Ruan has had plenty of exposure at flyhalf, and some of his performances there have been very good. Why then did he fold against a club team? In my opinion, his weakness is psychological.
2. Ruan has hardly set the world on fire with his performances at no 9 in the last year or so. It’s very presumptuous of you to assume that he would be the automatic back-up to FdP on merit, when we have guys like Sarel Pretorius and Jano Vermaak available.
3. The guy is in his mid-20′s. He’s not a kid any more. For a supposedly freakishly gifted inside back, he makes a lot of schoolboy errors that have very little if anything to do with what position he’s playing in. He could (and does) erroneously kick the ball dead from scrumhalf, flyhalf or fullback.
In short, I believe that Ruan is indeed an exceptional talent, but he needs a hefty dose of Harden The F**k Up before he can be considered for the Bokke again.
9 Nov 2009, 16:42 pm
#109 pierre: 100%
I was a very big Ruaan fan. He just had all the skills and ability and was a perfect fit for the game that Div wants to play. But he has not grabbed his opportunities at all. in fact i was more disappointed with his negative body language on Friday.
You play where the coach selects you. Ask Ashwell Prince and a young Dan Carter. He palyed 10, 12 and 15 for Cantebury during his early years and was happy to play there. Look at him now, he has established himself as the best in the world. Ruaan has had the same opportunities, just has not delivered.
We cannot allow a player who cannot toughen up a place in the Bok 22. And why has the media let him off the hook so easily?
9 Nov 2009, 16:42 pm
#101 katman:
Again, it has to be noted that Gurthro, Chilli, Jannie, Danie, Andries, Ruan, Jongi, Wynand and Odwa have all been the second-choice Boks in their positions for quite some time now.
Yes, the pressure on them was compounded by the fact that PDV chose to blood some bolters at the same time as giving the second-choice team a run.
But the guys mentioned above really should have fronted up. Danie, Andries and Jongi tried hard. The others were destroyed or rendered utterly ineffective.
The real issue here is that the second-choice players didn’t impose themselves as they should have to allow for a smoother transition for new players like Maku, Potgieter, Raubenheimer, Johnson, Adams, De Jongh etc.
9 Nov 2009, 16:58 pm
#110 moedeloos: and #111 puff: good posts, fellas, good posts
9 Nov 2009, 16:59 pm
#101 katman:
The Ministerial Handbook is my Bible.
9 Nov 2009, 17:02 pm
The players who should stay in the team for Saracens:
Rossouw
Bekker
Potgieter
Johnson
Nokwe
De Jongh
Rose
9 Nov 2009, 17:03 pm
#107 Mutant: lol
9 Nov 2009, 17:04 pm
#113 Dawn: Yes, I can easily see you milking the system for two Range Rovers with ceramic brakes and parking distance control. But luckily I also know that not even sleeping with Julius would get you into guvment.
9 Nov 2009, 17:08 pm
Another Monday, another thread with race underpinnings from Keo… and the obvious sucking up to a certain Mr. Jake “Winning Ways”… Blah, blah, blah ain’t anything new here now is it…
Isn’t Bekker the rightful heir to Big Vic’s throne? Isn’t Danie the normal no. 3 lock playing from the bench for the Boks? Isn’t Dewalt being touted as “the next best thing” by a number of rugby fundi’s? Isn’t Meisiekind the obvious replacement now that incumbent JdV is earning four-leaved clovers? Isn’t Deysel one of the most powerful blindside flankers to have emerged in SA over the last 3 years?
The names which I’m mentioning here is all players whom I rate right up there being a Bulls and Bokke fan. Some were also present when the pack got shoved backwards at alarming rate more often then not by the Tigers.
To mention the names of Chilli and Earl (almost) as if it’s central to the Bok defeat is total BS!! I can agree that these chaps probably do not deserve to be there, but that is also true for the likes of Doctor Jannie, Hargreaves, and Van Zyl. This we don’t mention because of ethnicity? And yes, even they played their part in Friday’s defeat. We could also add that more leadership and direction could have been expected from Danie and Meisiekind, never forthcoming though.
Then there is the question marks in respect of Kirchner (who not too long ago was the form 15 in the S14) and Adi’s “frailty’s” on the inside channel (because we have a clear policy re the selection on overseas based players), both quality merit based selections…
9 Nov 2009, 17:41 pm
Basically the selection policy for the dirt trackers makes no sense at all. Take BEE away from it completely because there were some very strange names in the mix.
Earl Rose was expected, Div loves him. I don’t but he didn’t play absolutely awfully.
Hargreaves??? Huh? Jannie Dup? Huh. Alistair is young, been injured most of the year, although did show good form early on. But he hasn’t played enough to warrant selection. He could just as easily injured himself again. Jannie is neither young nor black nor any good. Everyone knows his contract is written on the back of his brother’s.
Chili was going to be selected, but he didn’t deserve it and is still injured. Gurthro has never been a choice in my book.
Danie also hasn’t had a standout year, he plays for 20 mins when the game is won… Odwa is old and not up to it anymore, there are loads of players from the Cheetahs or the Griquas who run like the wind.
Bottom line is there is nothing to gain from playing these guys as they are either over the hill or have proved time and again they are not up to it. Ruan Pienaar cemented his position as the NOT number 10 in SA and there are 2 9s at the Sharks who are better than him on form. He also lives on past glory…
Basically in light of this, the coaches’ decision to select these guys is even scarier… do any of them know what they are doing???
9 Nov 2009, 18:06 pm
…sickening
…
9 Nov 2009, 18:10 pm
#101 katman: Poor little Bok…raped up the nought…the Seffrican way…
9 Nov 2009, 18:13 pm
#111 puff: …and everytime Guthro,Chilli,Jannie,Danie,Andries,Ruan,Jongi,Wynand and Odwa have come on in the last twenty the Boks are going backward in a Big way…
9 Nov 2009, 18:30 pm
Bulls.. I mean Bokke go down against Leicester:
Firstly, I do not perceive this as sour grapes, and suggest you take it from where it comes, so here goes…
PDV on Friday night replaced many a player from the bulls union with just another from the same union. Rallepele made way for Bandiso Maku, Heinie made way for Francois Hougaard, and so on and so on. All this proved to me is that the bulls are not so hot when the calls go against them for a change.
I know Stuart **** had a shocker, but somehow I have this view after every game Mark Lawrence or Marius Wanker is ref against my team. My theory is simply this:
1. The bulls won the Super 14 after having 11 games in this super 14 being refereed by SA refs. On Friday they were screaming and shouting at a “new unfamiliar” ref. The way the media and generally everybody speaking make them out to be this great era is not valid. Simply because of the refereeing towards them is almost always favorable.
2. I still have bitter feelings towards how Marius Jonker was involved in the downfall of the Sharks and Wp.. (Province were leading the league game vs Vrystaat 26 – 14 and the sharks 18 – 3 in the semis) He clearly had the bulls journey to yet another CC all plotted down or did Andre Watson…?
3. After seeing the way the Kiwis and Australia did against the NH teams, I think the outlook of the media mostly and the public about how good our boks are is ludicrous!! We obviously played weak SH teams in the Tri nations and by the looks of the NH teams also played a weak Lions team…. makes you wonder how good our boks really are….
4. Not picking a single player from Wp’s front row just strengthens my theory about ” Maak die bulle almal bokke” like a certain song goes Wicus Blaauw sorted out all these plonkers in the CC, so did Tiaan Liebenberg. Someway the bulls moaned like bit@hes about scrumming illegalities. They would not accept the fact that Wp shed the tag of the light five. utterly dissapointing.
So if PDV just follow popular belief and think that choosing just bulls will solve all his problems, maybe a better look is needed before we paint everything blue…..
The bulls… I mean the highly rated boks will get a beating by France, I think somewhere the rugby gods will ensure that Champagne rugby will prevail to this kickitandhopewegetapenaltytacticfromthebulls gameplan.
Use it, don’t use it….
Provvas
9 Nov 2009, 18:35 pm
My little trivia for the day to those who dont have blue balls hanging from their bakkie:
Q: How many tries did WO score in a springbok jersey?
Q: How many games have Wp won the last two yaers with Marius Jonker as ref?
9 Nov 2009, 18:38 pm
A: None!! Believe it. This “hot” Centre has never scored for the boks in any games….
A: Well your guess is as good as mine.. If memory serves me Correct it is 2 out of 12 games refereed by him. (Won against Lions without bonus point in S14 and won against Boland I think in CC 2009 2009) Lost to Valke in 2008 with Marius as ref… the valke who cannot make the premier division…. yeah right!!!
9 Nov 2009, 18:47 pm
#124 Provvas: Another statistical gymnast. Look at the scoreboard and trophy cabinet!!
9 Nov 2009, 19:01 pm
#125 Kronung: ja let’s look at the log
1. Shark
2. WP
3. Bulls
4. Cheetahs
5-8. who cares
9 Nov 2009, 19:02 pm
there was one very basic reason for the debacle at leicester.
that team was hopelessly underprepared.
the tight 5 are all boks, yet a bunch of no-name-brand players destroyed them in the scrums.
and the turnovers in the rucks were even worse – though leicester were illegal at almost every one.
9 Nov 2009, 19:03 pm
What an embarrassment! Springbok rugby was let down big time on Friday night. Not only by the bemusing selections but also by the lack of commitment from certain ‘quality’ players that started for the boks.
You would expect an SA 3rd XV to beat an academy team combined with a sprinkle of internationals. Ashley was the stand out player. Pienaar didn’t look like he cared that he had the Springbok emblem on. It was a perfect opportunity for him to control a game and show us his true potential. Rose in the context of things didn’t have such a bad game. Defensively he will always be suspect but he had a few good touches in attack.
As for Steenkamp I think he should go back to scrum school starting off in the U11B’s followed by Jannie.
However I blame the coaches (plural) entirely – as many of the players who were exposed should not have been selected in the first place. I thought £10 for a ticket to see SA vs Saracens was a bargain, I am not so sure anymore.
9 Nov 2009, 19:05 pm
#127 charo: thanks for an objective opinion. something that has been scarce on this blog since friday evening…
9 Nov 2009, 19:11 pm
#127 charo: Amen
9 Nov 2009, 19:12 pm
#126 SpringbokSarah: Why?
9 Nov 2009, 19:13 pm
My point in fact Kronung!!
Your eyes are so filled with the blue by referees and media that you cannot look past the hangover from the last year!!
Your bulls players were beaten by a simple club team called Leicester. I have no passion whatsoever for a team dominated by a bunch of dinosaurs, without any passion.. next time the bulls play, check out how many times they just dive in from the side, all over the show, bridge over rucks etc etc…. and then see them get away with it….
Danie rossouw obviously forgot the ref is not from Sa with that synical barge late in the game…
9 Nov 2009, 19:19 pm
#126 SpringbokSarah:
what does the log have to do with it …. who won? in other words lets select the province team because they finished top of the currie cup log?
9 Nov 2009, 19:20 pm
O ja, Scoreboard said wp 1 try bulls 0
it also said Mark Ilovethebulls Lawrence 7 penalties for 21 points – Wp 4 penalties for 12 points…
9 Nov 2009, 19:21 pm
#132 Provvas: Better yet next time the Bulls play pop in to see the trophy cabinet. Nice sight to behold.
Next time the Bokke play reflect on the year 2009, the team sheets and coaching staff. Nice also.
Any other opinion is merely significant in the eye of the beholder. Entertaining yes, but as always it means more to the penman than to anyone else……..
9 Nov 2009, 19:23 pm
Gunter the log states that over the season the top two teams were Wp and Sharks… not in that particular order but none the less
In earlier years the final would have been decided by the two top teams and not the Scaly back door Cheaters and Bulls.
I do not believe for one second that the cheetahs deserved their place…. neither did the bulls….. its a conspiracy!!!! LOL
9 Nov 2009, 19:27 pm
Kronung I must say that my core will not allow this!!
I can see the Sharks even the lions win the CC but the bulls….
Sorry they are just not likable to me…. something to do with the supporters, mindset and gameplan….. not sure… maybe all of the above…
Here is one for you: Sondag innie kerk het ons nagmaal gehad…. Die dominee vra toe : Wie wil die beker he? Al die Vrystaters steek toe hulle hande op….
9 Nov 2009, 19:40 pm
#136 Provvas:
in earlier years there was no vaccine for smallpox and polio …. should we return? lord knows its been a while since province were top of any log…should we suddenly change the rules now..
9 Nov 2009, 19:46 pm
No Gunther, I am only stating the obvious… that the two top teams did not compete in the final. But saying that these days we do something a certain way.. does that make it the right way?
Surely not? Read my first mail again about my opinion on refereeing these days…. My elder Bulls supporter have the same view on the golden 5 years from province… with the refs of those times always seeming to rule certain calls….
Andre Watsons era will also pass… and the wheel turns they say… Just so Slowly for us Wp supporters FFS!!! Heheheh
9 Nov 2009, 19:56 pm
When you invest in something, you identify potential with the hope of your investment growing to something substantial.
That is true in rugby as it is true in finance.
However, when an investment goes west, it is rather hard to let go and count your losses, or hope that your initial investment, thanks to ‘market’ fluctuations or changes, might just come off, or come good – because if it does, you will be one ahead of everyone else who decided to ‘sell’ off their investments too soon without showing some faith in it.
So it is a catch 22.
Having invested so much in certain guys it is tough to cut the tie, because the cause of the investment not paying off is usually something external that influenced it than the actual commodity you invested in, which is true in rugby too.
Coaches will never win.
Not with 44 million arm-chair experts with opinions.
9 Nov 2009, 19:58 pm
Keo:
I have asked so many times: Why cant we get a history of games played and Referee involved in the Currie Cup and Super 14? Is it such a secret.. the internet is also very vague as far as these stats are concerned.
Or maybe a referee report after each game.
Is there not a rotary system for certain refs for certain teams?
Why does Kaplan Always get Sharks cheetahs games and Jonker and Lawrence always Bulls Wp games?? How is it decided? Behind closed doors with no reasoning?
9 Nov 2009, 20:01 pm
#31 Simon:
No Simon, they are not capped, and they do not get a blazer. They are not Springboks in the sense you try to perpetuate.
9 Nov 2009, 20:02 pm
#142 PissAnt:
If they were, then all the Emerging Boks of the past would also be ‘Boks’
9 Nov 2009, 20:04 pm
Pissant:
Sometimes perceived investments are exactly the opposite: A irrational decision by emotion and no reasoning. In such a case to try and hold onto your “investment” holds no water. But like you say.. its catch 22 cause Passion and emotion for no reason sometimes just pays off….
By your view the following is also true: You dont see just everyday dudes from the street make major investments… It is in 90% of the cases the well Educated, well trained and experienced guys who tastes success.
9 Nov 2009, 20:10 pm
#144 Provvas:
You also have to keep in mind, many of the investments we are talking about now, were inhereted, not started.
9 Nov 2009, 20:18 pm
Keo,
If the boks never played in Toulouse, where did they play France on 23 Nov 1974?
9 Nov 2009, 20:22 pm
#145 PissAnt:
Like my one school teacher always said…. beginning something is so very hard…. but fine tuning something already there is so much easier. Playing down save lane all the time, will only take you SO far.
What is your view on Friday night come the big guns? Will they be the first team since 1997 to beat France in France??
9 Nov 2009, 20:27 pm
The way I see it, the hierarchy is as follows:
a. Capped Springboks (played tests)
b. Springboks (those selected for a springbok tour but who never played in a test)
c. Emerging Springboks/Junior Springboks/Gazelles
Category a is the real deal, while category b can also be called Springboks and is seen as more of an achievement or a “higher status” than category C.
Splitting hair perhaps, but still…
9 Nov 2009, 20:41 pm
#140 PissAnt:
Invest in gedge funds then
Chiliboy and Co hardly constitue hedge funds for the experienced investor
9 Nov 2009, 20:52 pm
#147 Provvas:
We will win
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