Tigers torture no issue for Boks
The Springbok coaches have called for perspective on the defeat to Leicester but are wary of the test that awaits them against France in Toulouse.
An inexperienced and ill-equipped South Africa were beaten 22-17 by a second-string Tigers outfit last Friday, exposing poor selections and under-preparation, particularly with regards to scrummaging, a facet of play were they were decimated.
However, head coach Peter de Villiers remained optimistic in his view of the defeat and diabolical performance, saying, ‘There are more positives than negatives in the loss.
‘Now we know where we’re going. We knew it would be tough with only a week’s preparation. It was an eye-opener, but if we didn’t have the game we wouldn’t have known what we do now.’
De Villiers peddled the same rhetoric after a Springbok B side were schooled by the British & Irish Lions in the third Test, making his explanation for the latest embarrassment perplexing. He continued by offering a lack of leadership for the dirt-trackers (captain Chiliboy Ralepelle limped off with a foot injury 20 minutes into the contest) as a mitigating factor for the defeat.
‘One of the problems we have agreed upon is that of leadership. We now know to address that,’ he said.
The first-choice Springbok combination won’t be short of experienced leaders on Friday evening, and will be favourites for victory, having bagged the notable scalps of the Lions and their southern hemisphere rivals Australia and New Zealand.
They will, however, have to make exponential improvements to the standard of scrummaging they have exhibited thus far to negotiate the challenge of Les Tricolores, as well as hope that the replacements for outstanding loose forwards Juan Smith and Pierre Spies offer them similar value in their areas of specialisation.
Assistant coach Gary said France would be as tough as the All Blacks, who the Springboks have beat thrice in Tri-Nations, in terms of physicality.
‘They have a big strong pack and they will be very physical,’ Gold said. ‘They’re the one team in the world with New Zealand who can match our forwards with size.
‘They’re an emotional team, with a lot of passion. They’ll be playing in a small stadium, and if a French side comes out firing they can rip the heart out of anybody.’
November 9th, 2009 at 3:19 pm
Crucial to win the tests.
November 9th, 2009 at 3:20 pm
Otherwise the knives will be out for PdV.
November 9th, 2009 at 3:20 pm
Damn !! Dantalian !!!
November 9th, 2009 at 3:21 pm
Crucial to win against France, imagine two losses in a row. Can only go downhill from there.
November 9th, 2009 at 3:22 pm
“There are more positives than negatives in the loss.”
Brilliant! The Greatest has discarded the muzzle and is right back into it with some pearlers.
November 9th, 2009 at 3:26 pm
Don’t be so fickle, PdV jst won Coach of the year, the Lion’s tour and the tri-Nations and beat the All-Black repeatedly this season. The B side lost 1 game, if we lose to France, NO knives are coming out… c’mon let’s be rational here
November 9th, 2009 at 3:29 pm
#6 The_Boss: That’s my point. Rational folks will take in the whole year’s results.
But the anti-PdV brigade hardly needs an excuse to sharpen their knives.
November 9th, 2009 at 3:31 pm
What is important is how PdV learns from this . So far he has shown very little that is inspired or creative, but his greatest strength has been to learn from his mistakes. He didn’t want Morne or Heinrich to start with, but when they came on and proved themselves he adapted. This kind of pragmatism is crucial in rugby, because we will all be proven wrong at some stage, it’s how we respond to it that matters. The belated inclusion of the Cheetahs frontrowers is a promising sign in this regard. Hopefully the folly of picking a team to appease braindead cabinet ministers is over for the moment and PdV will have a free hand to pick the team that belongs out on the field.
November 9th, 2009 at 3:34 pm
I’m very interested to see what the bench will look like.
based on friday’s performance, johnson and rose could be elevated, with pienaar 9/10 cover. Bekker as lock cover
Does Maku become the back-up hooker, or does Strauss leapfrog him on virtue of his test appearances and form?
CJ will most certainly be there though
November 9th, 2009 at 3:43 pm
And again it shows how PdV gets away with what previous coaches have been virtually fired for a similar result when will they be treated equally to prior coaches
November 9th, 2009 at 3:48 pm
“There are more positives than negatives”
Wrong! The negatives far outweigh the positives. Grow a brain snor
November 9th, 2009 at 3:48 pm
#10
Which coach got fired for loing a mid-week game with a B-side after winning the tri-nations, Lions tour etc.
November 9th, 2009 at 3:50 pm
#12 The_Boss: I was about to ask the same.
November 9th, 2009 at 3:50 pm
Kirchner
Habana
Pietersen
Fourie
Olivier
Steyn
Du Preez
Kankowski
Burger
Brussouw
Matfield
Botha
Smit
Bismark
Beast
CJ van der Linde
Adriaan Strauss
Danie Rossouw (lock)
Dewald Potgieter (Loose forward)
Jean Deysel (loose forward)
Ruan Pienaar (fly half, full back)
Francois Hougaard (scrum half, centre, wing)
That’s my preferred team, given the guys on tour.
November 9th, 2009 at 3:52 pm
# talking **** again. Who was fired when we lost 49-0. Or 7 out of 10 starts to Nz? Who was fired when we lost to France at home or lost to Ireland twice in succession, or lost to France again. . . and again away in 2005 and 2006. Who was fired when we came stone last in the tri nations 2006 and 2007?
Some punks are just that, small minded and short memory fools with agendas the size of their blatant prejudice.
November 9th, 2009 at 3:54 pm
#15 skopskiet:
Leave Jake White, man. He is not the issue, and has not been for a long time.
Focus on the here and now.
November 9th, 2009 at 3:54 pm
#15 skopskiet: I was about to ask the same
November 9th, 2009 at 3:56 pm
#14 Tacitus:
Although we might want to start with Rossouw at 8, rather than Kankowski. The only problem is, that brings Bekker back into the equation.
November 9th, 2009 at 3:58 pm
Rossouw is a better bet than Kanko for what the Boks what to achieve against France, i.e. complete physical forward domination. Kanko should maybe have a crack in the Italy test.
November 9th, 2009 at 4:00 pm
#19 Big Hit:
Agreed. Problem is, then we’re going to have Andries “The Gazelle” Bekker as back-up lock.
So much for physical domination.
November 9th, 2009 at 4:00 pm
#18 Tacitus: There is nothing wrong with Bekker. He is clearly the natural successor to Victor. If however Victor is going to be on the park for the full 80 and Bakkies is subbed, which makes sense, then a replacement for Victor is foolish. We need a No 4 on the bench.Danie is the only realistic candidate at this stage.
November 9th, 2009 at 4:01 pm
Just one question: SO Ryan you write “as well as hope that the replacements for outstanding loose forwards Juan Smith and Pierre Spies offer them similar value in their areas of specialisation.” Therefore you think that Burger is not a good replacement for Smith? and just give Johnson the no. 8 jersey – he was amazing on Friday.
November 9th, 2009 at 4:02 pm
#18 Tacitus: All Rossouw offers is a heap of misguided aggression, plenty of intense glowering, non-stop spitting, a lot of incoherent muttering and half a dozen spilled balls. Why would you suggest picking him?
November 9th, 2009 at 4:02 pm
#14 Tacitus: Lot of Bulls in that squad Tac!
Agree regarding Olivier, although Adi will most probably be at 12. Only hope that Olivier gets an extended run off bench, and starts in Italy test to show his true worth.
He is by far our best 12 on present form/availabilty, both on defense and attack.
Hougaard is exciting prospect, but would confine his role on this tour to sub against Italy, start against Saracens.
My bench would go like this
CJ
Strauss
Bekker
Johnson (reliable 8, incase kanko goes awol)
Pienaar
Olivier (preferably starting)
Ndugane (suitable fullback cover)
November 9th, 2009 at 4:03 pm
#21 stormer in a teacup:
Andries Bekker is a wannabe Habana, who does bugger all to add to the physicality of the pack.
Victor Matfield is a reincarnation of Kobus Wiese compared to “Chariots of Fire” Bekker.
November 9th, 2009 at 4:05 pm
#23 katman:
I disagree with you.
November 9th, 2009 at 4:06 pm
Since readmission what are the stats like for these mid-week games, seems so long since we have been playing them.
November 9th, 2009 at 4:07 pm
Bekker was more effective than Rossouw in the tight loose on Friday, and his performance in the CC semi suggests that his tiddlywink tag is a myth.
He’s come of age, and better give him the extended experience now in prep for 2011, since Rossouw has reached his zenith.
November 9th, 2009 at 4:09 pm
#23 katman: who should start at no.8 in your opinon?
November 9th, 2009 at 4:10 pm
#28 ali: Sheridan said he had a tiddlywink, true story
November 9th, 2009 at 4:10 pm
#28 ali:
Also, I think Bekker causes major scrum problems due to the mismatch in lenth between him and whatever lock he packs down with.
How the hell must the eightman add his weight to the scrum, if one guy’s arse sticks out half a foot further than the other’s?
Get rid of the Beanpole, I say.
November 9th, 2009 at 4:12 pm
#14 Tacitus: agree with you team 100%
pity jdv and f steyn is not there, but no use crying over spilt milk
over course spies would have mad a diffs too , again spilt milk
November 9th, 2009 at 4:13 pm
#31 Tacitus:
November 9th, 2009 at 4:14 pm
#25 Tacitus: Victor adds sod all to the physicality of the pack either. Who was out in the backs, playing centre, to collect Smitties grubber kick and score? The 5 is the lineout winner, the athlete in the tight 5. Victor replaced Albert “I run like a giraffe” van den Berg and will certainly be replaced by Bekker. Victor had to grow into the presence he is on the field. His talent was recognised early and he was developed by Griquas, the Bulls and the Boks into a top player. Bekker, with his pedigree has the potential to surpass him.
November 9th, 2009 at 4:15 pm
#16 Tacitus: we talking about firing coaches. You mate at #10 is suggesting that the current coach deserves to be fired over one loss on an away Eoyt and is getting preferential treatment based on his skin colour and that other white coaches were fired for less. Now you might have the same agenda running through your brain so I’m asking you again, who was fired when we lost 49-0 to Australia, or twice on the trot to Ireland, or 3 times on the trot to France, once cv home, or 7 times out of 10 to Nz? Some the agendas in here are so riddled and laced with under current prejudice as thick as the **** it stinks like perhaps your nostrils are closed to it, mine aint.
November 9th, 2009 at 4:15 pm
#31 Tacitus: 10cm taller than the incumbent hardly makes him a beanpole by lock standards.
in anycase, our current no.8’s have hardly shown a willingness to lend their weight in the scrum. Kanko, Spies and now Johnson all have their heads up in preparation for the forthcoming breakdown.
Bekker has developed suitable grunt, and together with his lineout proficiency makes him the perfect player to be on the bench.
November 9th, 2009 at 4:16 pm
#31 Tacitus:
For half a second I thought you may have a point.
But at the 1 sec mark I remembered that if he was a Blue Bull you would have viewed him differently.
You think just like the ANC.
November 9th, 2009 at 4:19 pm
#35 skopskiet:
Ja I guess that proves that you should not try to predict what’s going on in my brain.
I’m on record as not being a Jake White fan.
I’m also on record as tolerating Snor – as long as he delivers. The moment he starts sacrificing results for his “other” agenda, he is fair game.
As for his award as the top coach in SA. Let’s not go there.
Let me ask you this, though. How many international teams or foreign clubs would queue to sign him as their head coach?
November 9th, 2009 at 4:20 pm
#26 Tacitus: I’m guessing then that you wore your blue specs for the duration of the Leicester game. Because I saw a lot of Danie mouthing “fokkof” to no one in particular, a lot of him collecting and ejecting little spitballs, one temper tantrum off the ball and some of him sitting on the stands, muttering to himself.
November 9th, 2009 at 4:20 pm
Anyone in the UK know if this match is beiong televised…or is it gonna have to be viewed on some dodgy website??
November 9th, 2009 at 4:22 pm
#39 katman:
He’s obviously not used to playing in such a k*k team, and got somewhat irritated. I would too, if I was him.
November 9th, 2009 at 4:22 pm
#39 katman:
“collecting and ejecting little spitballs”
November 9th, 2009 at 4:22 pm
#38 Tacitus:
)
how many are queing to sign jw(note: without eddie)?
oh
and g’afternoon all (you included tac
November 9th, 2009 at 4:24 pm
#39 katman: Danie is our greatest asset. One bad game is for nothing. Danie is a king.
November 9th, 2009 at 4:25 pm
#43 ashley:
Did you even read my post? I wouldn’t sign JW either, because I think he is full of hot air, and a massive self promoter.
Rather, look at all of our other coaches that have been snapped up overseas.
November 9th, 2009 at 4:25 pm
#41 Tacitus: tacitus cant agree boet , one must admit he played **** in that game
and when hargreaves heinke and deysel came on the scrums got better
rossouw also lost a few lineouts
i am not saying he is **** , not at all, but in that game he was
November 9th, 2009 at 4:25 pm
#42 Sheriff:
hey lawman
hoe hang hulle broetsie?
November 9th, 2009 at 4:26 pm
#36 ali: Agreed. Bekker was way more physical than Danie against Leicester – it’s an area of his game that he’s improved on massively in recent months. Definitely the best lock cover we have in SA at the moment.
November 9th, 2009 at 4:26 pm
#29 Big Hit: Ryan Kankowski. It’s always been a toss-up between him and Spies, and nothing has changed. He’s one of the most gifted athletes in our squad and a real game breaker. Regardless of the hemisphere.
November 9th, 2009 at 4:27 pm
#45 Tacitus:
you know i cant read tac!!
November 9th, 2009 at 4:27 pm
and it was deysel that gave us some grunt
other problem was the forwards were not playing as a unit
November 9th, 2009 at 4:27 pm
#49 katman: And what of Ashley Johnson ?
November 9th, 2009 at 4:27 pm
transformation is of course racism.
its rhetoric for selecting player based purely on skin colour.
one can argue whether this racism is justified in light of previous racism, but it remains racism nevertheless – instead its been sold as ‘trasnformation’, actually no its worse than that, its being sold as ‘merit only’.
apparently a 2nd string leicester team beat a 2nd string Bok team if one can believe that malarchy.
November 9th, 2009 at 4:28 pm
#15
Get over yourself skop. You have such a massive chip on your shoulder and you make everything about colour!
Get over it now, you twisted old man, it’s getting tired now!
November 9th, 2009 at 4:28 pm
#50 ashley: oops: neither can I.
November 9th, 2009 at 4:29 pm
#51 sharks_lover: Deysel is only good going forwards. Even then he is fearful of contact situations. Watch for lines he running. He always run for smaller guys.
November 9th, 2009 at 4:29 pm
#53 cab:
Great post. Not sure which comment it was in response to, but I agree with your sentiments wholeheartedly.
November 9th, 2009 at 4:30 pm
#53 cab: hiyas cabby ,and this be true
i felt sorry for raubenheimer , he was clearly out of his depth and being subbed early means his confidence would have taken a pounding too
but its not use crying about it , we all know it will continue
November 9th, 2009 at 4:30 pm
#47 ashley:
How are you meneer?
Where have you been?
November 9th, 2009 at 4:31 pm
Johnson could be a surprise at 8 though, given the regard our coach holds in him, and subsequent habit of backing this.
If I’m not mistaken, he played behind Spies in the u21 WC, and was the captain for Snor’s Southern Spears team
November 9th, 2009 at 4:31 pm
#56 rugbygenius: That’s logical – more chance of him running over a small ‘un than a big ‘un. But he does often have a problem in keeping the ball in contact – gets turned quite often.
November 9th, 2009 at 4:32 pm
#56 rugbygenius: yeah thats why the 19 from the tigers that is bigger then deysel fell on his *** huh??
November 9th, 2009 at 4:32 pm
#60 ali: This is the best post of the whole day !
November 9th, 2009 at 4:32 pm
#53 cab: The most sense I have seen written on this website for a while.
November 9th, 2009 at 4:33 pm
#59 Sheriff:
ag, been away for a while, just got g@tvol with this site’s journalists … anyway, how’s life treating you, bru?
November 9th, 2009 at 4:34 pm
#61 Mutant: Yes thats what I mean. His technique is contact is at times a problem.
#62 sharks_lover: You are comparing him to a nobody . That number 19 was just a fat guy not strong . Deysel is for Super 14 only. For Boks – Johnson is the future sir. Sorry .
November 9th, 2009 at 4:34 pm
#61 Mutant: depepnding on how the tackler hits you anyone loses a ball
the ball pottie and deysel lost each the other night was purely because of no support
deysel was held up by 4 players and many seconds later the support came
a touch late id say
November 9th, 2009 at 4:34 pm
#65 ashley:
Die lewe is ‘n lied, sing hom uit volle bors?
November 9th, 2009 at 4:35 pm
#63 rugbygenius:
November 9th, 2009 at 4:36 pm
how many club or S14 franchises cue’d up to sign the WC winning coach? The issue is not how great a coach either of the protagonists are, the issue is that some dainty Sa supporters got knives out for this guy after a failed development game went sour, yet thus far his record still out shines every other white coach that went before him in internationals bar one.
The other issue is that it wasn’t even the development players who failed the test it was the hunky dory Bulls and Sharks front row vanguard plus their stalwart 2nd row lock that let the team down. Between Steenkamp, Ralepelle, Du Plessis, Roussouw, Bekker, Pienaar, Olivier and Ndungane, every one of them a seasoned capped Bok by JW, its them that let the famous bok team down, none of the so called quotas. Maybe its them that should get fired all these fancy pants 2nd grade Sharks and Bulls bok’s that can’t muscle in when required. Roussouw and Steenkamp and Du Plessis were exposed pretty bad. The front line Cc champ tough guys.
November 9th, 2009 at 4:36 pm
#64 Heavens Game:
youre not meaning
“the closest someone came to expressing your own sentiments’ perhaps?
November 9th, 2009 at 4:37 pm
#57 Tacitus:
just giving my opinion in general, probably not my place to comment.
#58 sharks_lover:
raubenheimer, like rallapelle, maku – and all the others should be playing regular S14 rugby for a full 80 mins – before being selected for the Boks.
If on the other hand its a development tour, this should be called for what it is – and not sold as ‘merit only’ where a depleted leicester side now have a Bok scalp to brag over.
It demeans the Bok, it demeans much of what the coach has achieved and it demeans the young players who are incorectly selected who have to bear the fallout of the expectant Bok public.
November 9th, 2009 at 4:37 pm
#14 Tacitus: Tac, Spot on that would be my starting 15 too. Actually think that will be the team selected to start. Now really do hope that Deysel is on the bench.
November 9th, 2009 at 4:37 pm
The thing about Deysel is that he has one run, where some guy tries a loose tackle on him and gets bounced. In the process Deysel makes a yard or two, but without it leading to anything major for his team.
That’s all that’s required for his vocal supporters to go ballistic and scream about the imperative need to have him in the Bok team.
Plenty of loose forwards score more tries, steal more balls, win more line outs, bust more tackles and gain more yards than Deysel.
He is strong, but you don’t see him running 40 yards with the ball, or busting through 4 guys to score tries.
There is just too much hype for the limited amount of achievement he produces, in my view.
November 9th, 2009 at 4:39 pm
#73 Puma:
That post wasn’t in response to you, Puma. It is just coincidence that it appeared right after your comment regarding Deysel.
November 9th, 2009 at 4:39 pm
#66 rugbygenius: firstly your so call genius is very very average as deysel is a flank and johnstone a 8thman , so go learn about the different positions first
2ndly johnstone played well but defended poorly the other evening , and it was a head on tackle he missed that gave their try away
3rdly the 19 was not fat , but big and strong , but also having read many of your posts i will say something i have been wanting to say to you for some time , you are nothing but a racist , and whenever you compare or complain or mention a super star , its always a player of colour , thus you just compared deysel to johnstone
November 9th, 2009 at 4:40 pm
#67 sharks_lover: It also depends how you go into contact, and Deysel is very upright a lot of the time – poor technique, especially when there is little support around you. Not only last game, but in the Super 14 and CC too. It’s an area he needs to work on, that’s all. I still rate him as the best 7 after Juan (and Schalk, who I believe should play there now considering Brussow’s form).
November 9th, 2009 at 4:42 pm
#52 rugbygenius: I like Johnson. And I’d be happy to have him on the bench instead of Deysel or whoever else is in our match-22 against the French. But in my mind the Springbok eightman is still a two horse race. Kankowski is the number one contender. Any other nation would kill for a player like him.
November 9th, 2009 at 4:43 pm
#66 rugbygenius: You talking nonsense
Deysel deserves to be selected for the Boks. He has proved himself a long time back. Not just a S14 player. He was one of a few that made a differenc on Friday night. Ashley did too.
Hoping Deysel makes the bench. Then we all know it will probably not happen. I think he deserves to and will be a great back up to Burger.
November 9th, 2009 at 4:44 pm
#74 Tacitus: now thats nonsence tacci and you know it
the thing is loose trio is a unit , and when you have someone strong like deysel being a ball carrier the need players feeding off his work not standing back like they did the other night
because he sucks in the 4 defenders you talk of, i guess you will prolly tell me pottie was better the deysel last friday night??
November 9th, 2009 at 4:44 pm
#70 Skopskiet
I totally agree as a sharks supporter I can’t stand the uselesness of Jannie Du plesis, at least Ndungane is a decent backup at S14 level, Jannie is totally useles…WRT chillipip Ithuoght he was amazing coming out of age-group level but sitting bench has done him no good, He played like **** alomg with Guthro, who starts at the bulls
November 9th, 2009 at 4:45 pm
So cab name me the players that were chosen out of merit. Which player contributed more to the loss than the other. Rose? Adams? Maku? Nokwe? Johnson? De Jongh? Viljoen? Hargreaves? Potgieter?
Or was it not perhaps Steenkamp, Ralepelle, Du Plessis, Roussouw, Pienaar, Ndungane, Olivier?
Your argument falls flat on its ***.
November 9th, 2009 at 4:45 pm
#78 katman: Katman I feel very positive that Kanko will make the starting 15. Well I do hope so. Will play well with Burger next to him and with Brussow at 6.
November 9th, 2009 at 4:46 pm
hmmmm,
seems like we’re comparing d*cks!!
..
well in that case, see you guys tomorrow!!
cheers everyone!!
November 9th, 2009 at 4:46 pm
#77 Mutant: mutant there is a lot wrong with many players because of poor coaching and i agree with you
lets take the locks and body positions in the scrums of the locks and loose forwards of the boks last friday
and so one can show many poor things , but why is the coaching staff not picking these things up , and not only bok coaches
all
November 9th, 2009 at 4:47 pm
#74 Tacitus: Rossouw does exactly the same, except he normally has the ball dislodged from his angry grasp in the process.
November 9th, 2009 at 4:48 pm
#75 Tacitus: Perfect timing then Tac
November 9th, 2009 at 4:48 pm
Guys relax.
Konka will play.
November 9th, 2009 at 4:48 pm
in fact the one black player who has really set the CC and has been playing regularly well every game, Mapoe, has not been selected. He and De Jong are merit selections and thoroughly deserve their Springbok selections, they are ready and have shown this week in and week out.
But Ralapelle, Maku and Raubenheimer are not – especially with the depth of talent in these positions where looseforward and hooker have alot of depth in SA rugby.
Liebernberg over Rallapelle
CJ or WP Nel over Jannie
Sykes over Becker
Deysel over Raubenheimer
Would have been a very different result imo.
November 9th, 2009 at 4:48 pm
#84 ashley: Cheers Ash.
November 9th, 2009 at 4:49 pm
Looking at the French Team I would definately have deysel and rossouw on the bench and no bekker. It just might be a bit of a risk if matfield gets injured.
November 9th, 2009 at 4:49 pm
#88 Sheriff:
November 9th, 2009 at 4:49 pm
#76 sharks_lover: don’t read too much in the missed tackle of johnson. he was rushing to cover the position, and its not unusual for someone to lose their footing when stepped by a player coming from opposite direction.
loose forward bench spot is a two-horse race between johnson and deysel. i’d be happy with either of them, so coach’s call.
potgieter is a talent but not sure yet of his physical readiness. in any case, as no.8 he is behind the current contenders, and both our flanks will be playing full 80 i suspect
November 9th, 2009 at 4:50 pm
#82 skopskiet:
you not listening to what i’m saying, you already have picked your side or cause.
November 9th, 2009 at 4:52 pm
#84 ashley: you have no ****?
November 9th, 2009 at 4:53 pm
Later mates.
November 9th, 2009 at 4:53 pm
Kankowski has to start against the French. Harinordique (forgive my spelling guess) is a similar kind of player, but Kanko has so much more… how you say, Va-va-voom?
November 9th, 2009 at 4:54 pm
#25 Tacitus: Tac, Brilliant.
That was funny but have to agree with you mate…hehe. Good one.
November 9th, 2009 at 4:55 pm
What’s actually worse to consider is had it been Smit and Beast propping against that front row they’d probably have got popped just as bad. Then what would the anti Pdv choir been singing this fine Monday morning if it had been Smit and Beast done like pannekoek by the Italian Stallion and his Leicester front row mates.?
November 9th, 2009 at 4:56 pm
this tour is kanko’s time to shine. i sincerely hope he produces the goods, otherwise we won’t be see him getting any meaningful game time when spies returns.
November 9th, 2009 at 4:56 pm
#93 ali: ali again you cant compare deysel to johnstone
the one a 7 flank the other an 8thman,
to me for the bench tacitus got it right
i seldom agree with taccy but he has got it right
and id play rossouw off the bench covering lock before i choose bekker as rossouw offers that physicallity
and pottie is a good player agreed does not have that physical presence , but he has a lot of heart
November 9th, 2009 at 4:56 pm
Duane Vermeulen was exceptionally unlucky not to be picked for this tour.
He has a better all round game than Deysel and holds onto the ball better than his Sharks counterpart.
He is also miles ahead of the very overrated Raubenheimer who was so badly out of his depth on Friday it was guite sickening!
Vermeulen and Deysel should both be over there. While Davon is exceptionally to get a one off tourist trip to Europe.
November 9th, 2009 at 4:57 pm
Johnson is another player that probably deserves his bok selection, though Vermeulen and Alberts have played extermely well for their respective teams for a couple of years now.
November 9th, 2009 at 4:58 pm
johnson should make it on hairstyle alone.
November 9th, 2009 at 4:59 pm
well who’s fault is it that they were “inexperienced and ill-equipped”
November 9th, 2009 at 4:59 pm
but it was not beast and smit that got done by rocky balboa and his teammates. more importantly it was not the experienced Bok pack thats decimated allcomers.
November 9th, 2009 at 4:59 pm
Now back to the article above. Did we not learn by selecting the best to play against the Lions in the last test? WE came horribly short there. Why did we have to do it again on Friday? Not selecting the best, well in this instance 2nd side?
Will the selectors now finally learn? Hope they will. Don’t throw our Bok name away like that. We are a proud rugby nation here.
November 9th, 2009 at 4:59 pm
#99 skopskiet: Forget about blindly defending Div for a moment and consider, in your most honest opinion, whether Friday’s Bok front row was the second best combination that Div could have picked. This is a simple yes/no question.
November 9th, 2009 at 5:00 pm
#107 Puma: meant not selecting the best
November 9th, 2009 at 5:02 pm
#104 charo:
November 9th, 2009 at 5:03 pm
#97 katman: #100 ali: agreed and as a sharks supporter i truelly hope he shuts many mouths , but you need more then 1 or 2 games to gell and shine with you team
one can only hope , but against the english the way their players fall all over rucks one needs a powerfull loose trio
i seriously would love to see a deysel schalk and alberts together up there
but yes lets hope kanko takes his chance
November 9th, 2009 at 5:04 pm
#104 charo: think he has replaced Francois
November 9th, 2009 at 5:05 pm
#102 WP_: i have noj doubt for the tigers game the loose trio that played against the lions in the midweek game should have been kept,, they were awesome as a combo on that day
deysel
vermeulen
pottie
reserve johnstone
loose forwards are a combo , and one could see last friday they were chosen as individuals
November 9th, 2009 at 5:05 pm
Skop just shut up will you.
You have a chip on your shoulder the size of table mountain, you make everything to do with race and it’s very old and tired by now. Just like you.
Get over Jake White, you always mention him, clearly you are in awe of him as you are always going on about him. Enough
November 9th, 2009 at 5:06 pm
Aaaaaaaag snot man!
Eish … ek sien nou net ADI speel 13 (en dus ook uit posisie) teen die Frogs……. O Bloed!
November 9th, 2009 at 5:06 pm
GM mr charoping ^5 how ru doing??
November 9th, 2009 at 5:08 pm
#115 Staal: Waar sien jy dit?
November 9th, 2009 at 5:08 pm
#113 sharks_lover: They should have selected those loosies Sharky, Why the heck not? They proved themselves in that E. Boks side. Should have stuck with what worked. They are our 2nd best loosies and probably could become our best ever. Then Brussow is still very young and probably stay at 6 for a long time.
November 9th, 2009 at 5:10 pm
nothing wrong with blooding development players none whatsoever. The issue was the front row, klaar. If that had been addressed, and that had f.all to do with development apart from Chili Boy, then that bok team would have won. The cancer is not blooding development players and chucking them in the deep end, the problem starring these coaches in the face is no props and 2nd row locks that can stand and deliver when push comes to shove.
November 9th, 2009 at 5:10 pm
#113 sharks_lover
Totally agreed SL. Why the selectors saw the need to exclude DV for DR is beyond me and was probably beyond rugby matters too, based on ‘other criteria’ which is a disgrace.
Serves them right, they got the result to match the team
November 9th, 2009 at 5:11 pm
if its a development transformation side, call it such, nothing wrong whatsoever, but totally wrong to call it a Springbok XV indicating they are the next best in SA, they are not.
November 9th, 2009 at 5:12 pm
#101 sharks_lover: i realise deysel and johnson play in different positions, but there’s only one space on bench for loosie reserve, and in this respect they are essentially competing for the same position.
November 9th, 2009 at 5:12 pm
#35 skopskiet:
Jake White did not lose us a home game in his first 2 seasons in charge.
He did give us 2 succesive home wins against NZ, something we had not managed in 5 odd years. In fact, the Kiwis got the biggest pumping ever at Ellis in 2004.
Our first away 3 nations win in 2005 in 7 years.
That Twakkie is lucky enough to piggy back all the ground work laid by White, says a lot.
And of course, Jake never needed his players to come out publicly to impress on the public what a good coach he was.
And he was 1 game away from getting the can on quite a few occassions.
Just a little perspective and humility hey, what White had when he started compared with what Twakkie got given….are just oceans apart.
Having been a “reader” for quite some time before becoming a “poster”, I can quite confidently say that no one is as consistantly wrong on everything so often. Wether it be players, tactics,results, coaches, tiddlywinks,whatever….Skopskiet may as well be talking Darts. It’s quite amazing really, even a complete loser would get it right by accident on occassion.
November 9th, 2009 at 5:13 pm
Nothing wrong in blooding development players. But please don’t call them SPRINBOKS. Call them a SA development team. Then I would have no problem with that.
November 9th, 2009 at 5:14 pm
#117 katman: News24 – Mossie is glo die “beplande” 12….
ja-ja ek weet ek is dalk te vroeg maar hêl Mossie is n monster op 13.!
watch this space.
November 9th, 2009 at 5:17 pm
#125 Staal: they can always swop around on the field so maybe not a bad thing boet
jaque will be stronger up against the big french inside center
November 9th, 2009 at 5:18 pm
#123 Brigadier Van Zyl: i see keo is posting under another name
November 9th, 2009 at 5:18 pm
#126 sharks_lover: ok – let’s hope for the best.
November 9th, 2009 at 5:18 pm
#123 Brigadier Van Zyl: or are you gavin rich or corne krige?
November 9th, 2009 at 5:20 pm
#125 Staal: we watching that space but all we see is ur eyes getting bigger and bigger
November 9th, 2009 at 5:21 pm
#127 moedeloos:
no not at all.White did many things that pissed me off as a fan.
But he definately raised the Springbok “bar” as it would be and for that he deserves definate praise and not ridicule.
November 9th, 2009 at 5:22 pm
#125 Staal: Ag, No please are we going to play JF out of position just to make space for Adi? Adi been out of form for a long time now. Leave JF at 13 and WO should play next to him for this game.
Not very worried about our scrums on Friday think we will be sorted there. I think they going to focuse on our centre channel. We need the best there that we have. JF/WO must start together. Or damn just bring back JdV.
November 9th, 2009 at 5:22 pm
#123 Brigadier Van Zyl: now that you have listed jake’s positives which he is due by the way, please list all the things he did wrong.
or lets put this another way, please list all the good things (wins in NZ, trophies, awards and winning percentage) achieved by the current coach.
November 9th, 2009 at 5:23 pm
Are you Ashfak Mohhamed from the CT Times?
because I think he’s a real prick.
November 9th, 2009 at 5:24 pm
#126 sharks_lover: Piet said that inside centre weighs 105kg? Damn heavy and will be very strong there.
November 9th, 2009 at 5:24 pm
#132 Puma: and fransie
November 9th, 2009 at 5:24 pm
#131 Brigadier Van Zyl: agreed, white did more right than wrong with his approach when he took over. in fact i was one of his biggest fans. but there are 2 sides to every story. dont trump up the positives of one coach and only focus on the negatives of another.
November 9th, 2009 at 5:25 pm
A teacher asks the class to name things that end with ‘tor’ that eat things.
The first little boy says, “Alligator.”
“Very good, that’s a big word.”
The second boy says, “Predator.”
“Yes, that’s another big word. Well done.”
The third boy says, “Vibrator, Miss.”
After nearly falling off her chair, she says, “That is a big word, but
it doesn’t eat anything.”
“Well my sister has one and she says it eats batteries like there’s no tomorrow!!
November 9th, 2009 at 5:25 pm
No, I read on news24 that Adi Joke-obs will be trying to play 12 and Mossie will be at 13
November 9th, 2009 at 5:27 pm
Jake White…..2 times IRB coach of the year.
similar situation when comparing Skalk Burger and Brussouw?
Do you think Brussouw will have such a profound impact on a team that he will get and IRB player of the year award?
Burger has.
what does that mean?
I don’t know.
just trying a bit of Skoppie logic.
is it working?
November 9th, 2009 at 5:28 pm
#134 Brigadier Van Zyl: Amen to that! just another glorified watson/dollie/twakkie propoganda machine
November 9th, 2009 at 5:31 pm
the other thing of course is that the Bok team to play France is also changed around. Jacobs and Fourie will make a new centre partnership, the backrow will have never played together before and there will be a new fullback who will be a bit shaky in this cooker.
The boks are ripe, but its still a very experienced unit. If our tight 5 and burger are up for it – i cant even see the French living with the Bokke – but will lose if 2nd rate effort. Kanko also needs to get stuck in, i would’ve preferred deysel or potgieter in the loosetrio up north, but good luck to kankofski who has alot of talent, hope he gets stuck in and no jan pierewitting.
November 9th, 2009 at 5:33 pm
#134
#141
Totally agree! He is a real doos! It’s clear from his writing that his rugby knowledge is limited and his arguments are laced with racist undertones most of the time. Tired and old.
November 9th, 2009 at 5:33 pm
#140 Brigadier Van Zyl: you are still shying away from post 133.
Div is the coach and his record reads well into his second year. he will be the coach until the next world cup. Why is so much time spent on attacking everything the man does?
Or are people happy to have the bittersweet feeling everytime the Boks win cause they dont really want Div to be successful.
I will support the coach until he starts getting bad results. (no that does not mean one or 2 losses)
November 9th, 2009 at 5:35 pm
#143 WP_: what is your opinion of Gavin Rach and Mark keohane?
November 9th, 2009 at 5:35 pm
#143 WP_: are you in fact talking about keo?
November 9th, 2009 at 5:37 pm
#141 ali: here’s hoping that kanko unleashes 6 months of bench-sitting frustrations onto the frogs. i’m really hoping he will step up in the physical stakes, and think he knows that the preference towards sies last year was precisely this.
still, deysel/johnson back-up if he doesn’t produce the necessary physicality
November 9th, 2009 at 5:40 pm
#143 WP_:
No ou doos is not limited in knowledge or otherwise, he like many others believes transformation is essential and should go through at all costs, i’m just not one for the rhetroic and bullshit sandwich that its delivered in.
Rather simply say, SARU and the coaching staff believe in the transformation idealogy, which is consicered to be just and fair.
Transformation however remains racism since it is reserving selection places based purely on skin colour.
November 9th, 2009 at 5:40 pm
can i ask what all you PdV haters are going to do if we win against France or Ireland, cause His Holiness Jake “Winning Ways” White failed to do either away from home. or will you just fall back on the “he inherited a great team” or the equally silly “the senior players are coaching the team.”
if you’re going to irrationally hate someone, you need to come up with some fresh excuses to do so cause the previous ones are old and tired.
November 9th, 2009 at 5:42 pm
moedeloos
Rich is alright, I agree with the majority of the things he says but not all, he can come up with some interesting, bordering on ridiculous, ideas sometimes. He’s controversial, so he gets a lot of flak, but tells it for the most part like it is so I enjoy reading his articles.
Keo is ok, I dont really agree with the majority of stuff he writes. He’s guite arrogant in the way he writes and I think he spouts rubbish most of the time!
And you?
Zelim Nel is a good journo too.
November 9th, 2009 at 5:42 pm
#143 WP_: ya, his ‘insights’ and opinion are especially non-sensical, and all too often resorts to sensationalism to get a belated point accross. he did come from a tabloid publication after all.
November 9th, 2009 at 5:44 pm
#136 sharks_lover: Yes select Frans Steyn too. Said it many times here this weekend. Would have been awesome just to go with our best side that won us the Lions series and TriNations. Two missing now. JdV and Frans Steyn. They both should have got selected too.
November 9th, 2009 at 5:46 pm
#149 AndrewBK:
I would suggest you read the Gary Gold blog.
It’s quite obvious who the brains of the operation are.
The Springboks are expected to win on Friday.
They are heavy favorites.
Only concerns are of our own making.
Poor scrummaging.
Adi at 12.
Not selecting f.Steyn or J.DeVilliers.
November 9th, 2009 at 5:46 pm
#149
Is that all you can do, compare JW to PdV? You cant compare, same players – further along the line. Poor comparison.
#148
Yeah I agree with that. He loves championing Transformation, which is in fact racism. Transformation should be from the bottom up, not the top down. More and more black players are coming through the ranks from schoolboy levels and so on. People must just be patient
November 9th, 2009 at 5:47 pm
These guys didn’t deserve to be on the field, period.
Take it like men and admit your selections were useless guys.
November 9th, 2009 at 5:48 pm
Me myself I am very worried for 3 things vs France.
Number 1 : The France wings and fullback are very very good. I am afraid that our back 3 will be put under pressure of high balls and other skills.
Number 2 : The France Back row is very good . Adi Jacobs is a defence problem sometimes. How will he stop them ?
Number 3 : Our front row. France are very good here even though many people don’t say so. IF we start to lose scrums – what is plan B ??
PLease answer and make me relax again .
November 9th, 2009 at 5:49 pm
#154 ali
Agree, he dishes up a particularly low level of drivel which I cant help but laughing out loud to when I bother to read it. Which is not often, I read other publications which so I bit more insight than that dope
November 9th, 2009 at 5:49 pm
#153 Brigadier Van Zyl: Who would that be? The brains trust at the Boks is pretty shallow on the coaching side, they are certainly not the 3 wise men.
November 9th, 2009 at 5:50 pm
Brigadier firstly your writing style and choice of phrasing suggests to me you are not a new poster but an old hand under a new nick which also, if true suggests you are a liar. Secondly you talk twak, seeing that is the frame of reference you tend to use to freely.
Jake was a diabolical coach. Name me one Springbok coach in the history of this sport that has ever lost by the margin of 49-0. Just one. Add to that a win loss ratio through his 3rd year at the helm of less than 40% success bolstered only by easy wins against weak touring sides otherwise it would have been far worse. A 33% success rate against Nz. A 0% success rate against France in 3 attempts. A 50% success rate against Ireland only due to them sending weak touring sides here. A 45% success rate in the tri nations overall.
Your hero Jake isn’t fit to tie Pdv’s boot laces in real terms of like for like capabilities. Yet your blind prejudice won’t allow you to recognize it.
November 9th, 2009 at 5:51 pm
#156 rugbygenius: the answer is clear: Earl Rose
November 9th, 2009 at 5:52 pm
#158
John Smit, Victor Matfield and Fourie du Preez?
The 3 wise men?
November 9th, 2009 at 5:53 pm
In your opinions – Is PDv as good as Kitch Christie or better ?
November 9th, 2009 at 5:54 pm
#160 AndrewBK: Yes his defence is better than Jacobs but what of the other two questions sir ?
November 9th, 2009 at 5:54 pm
#159 skopskiet: Still banging on about 49 nil? LOL
What do you make of those very bizzare selections though? I wish Div would get himself 2 better assistant coaches, don’t rate those 2 at all.
November 9th, 2009 at 5:54 pm
#150 WP_: keo used to impress me at first. (post staaldraad) but since he has gone to bed with Jake he is pushing certain agendas very hard, sometimes despite the facts. the same guy he slated in 2006 suddenly became a great coach after that. might have something to do with his agendas currently.
Rich mostly writes horse **** these days.
I prefer blogger opinions these days cause every journo has an agenda ( ashfak, JJ harmse, keo the whole lot)
The blogger opinions balance out and you get all the views when discussing an issue.
November 9th, 2009 at 5:56 pm
#161 WP_: Indeed, but not Gary Glitter and Tricky Dickie. Bozos delux. I know why ****’s there and it aint for the rugby although I know he likes to use his tackle on tour.
November 9th, 2009 at 5:56 pm
#165 moedeloos: The best rugby writers are the fans .
November 9th, 2009 at 5:59 pm
#164 goyougoodthing2: I like the current assistant coaches but if I had to select 2 others it would be Naas and Helgaard Muller.
November 9th, 2009 at 5:59 pm
#163 rugbygenius: well Earl Rose can cover tackle anything that leaks through the defense, and if our scrum is getting dominated Earl Rose can move to tighthead (during scrumtime) and revert back to fullback during normal play. problem solved.
November 9th, 2009 at 6:00 pm
#168 rugbygenius: Have you ever met either of them?
Anyway, there are much better rugby brains out there, I could count 10 better coaches than either of those 2.
November 9th, 2009 at 6:00 pm
Yussus skop you are thick!
Fck, how the hell did you graduate out of school.
JW was building a team you chump, PdV INHERITED his side, you cannot compare. JW was creating a World Cup winning team from the ashes of the terrible 2003 RWC. PdV gained a World champion side which he then led to 4 losses out of 6 in the Tri Nations.
2 in a row where at home, in his first year as coach! JW didnt lose one game as coach till year 3!
November 9th, 2009 at 6:01 pm
#169 AndrewBK: Earl has trouble catching a cold, let alone another man with a rugby ball, and wearing boots with studs!
November 9th, 2009 at 6:01 pm
#169 AndrewBK: No I don’t think that is possible. I have never been seeing that sort of play before. In anny case, Rose has not got the physical build for a prop sir. He can play fullback this weekend
November 9th, 2009 at 6:03 pm
#170 goyougoodthing2: What of Rassie ? And Willemse ?
November 9th, 2009 at 6:03 pm
#172 goyougoodthing2: Did he drop a single ball in the Leicster game sir ?
November 9th, 2009 at 6:05 pm
I liked Allistair Coetzee as an assistant coach. He has a sound rugby brain and keeps things simple.
He’s a good coach. Better than ****. Not too sure about Gold either.
November 9th, 2009 at 6:06 pm
cheers guys, off home.
my parting shot: lets not select stats and facts to suite our argument. acknowledge and give credit to coaches for all their achievements
November 9th, 2009 at 6:07 pm
#162 rugbygenius:
You cannot compare the records of PdV and Christy
Christy had much easier opponents – never coached away games against the AB’s, Wallabies etc.
One thing I know however is that Christy was a better selector than Peter.
November 9th, 2009 at 6:09 pm
Agree Moedeloos
Stats tell you very little about a coach, but the naive and ill-informed will wave them around till there’s on tomorrow trying to prove their one eyed opinions (Read Skopskiet)
November 9th, 2009 at 6:09 pm
#178 Robzim: Thank you for that insight. I can see what you mean.
November 9th, 2009 at 6:11 pm
As long as PdV keeps winning the tests is all that counts, but some very dodgy selections and rhetoric around merit-only that is complete and utter crud – can only assume its another cunning ploy…
November 9th, 2009 at 6:16 pm
#176 WP_:
I think Gold is an astute reader of the game….not sure about his coaching abilities though…
muir leaves me cold…
November 9th, 2009 at 6:28 pm
#182 gunther: The WP scrum was at it’s K@kkest when Gary was coaching the forwards…never understood his selection as a Bok coach…
November 9th, 2009 at 6:30 pm
#179 WP_: Yeah well…look at Frans Ludeke’s atrocious record with the Lions till he inherited a Heineke Meyer Bulls team
November 9th, 2009 at 6:38 pm
Storm outta hell.
Yeah that’s one way of looking at it!
Yeah i’m not sure old Dickie is going do much good at the Lions either.
Gunther
Agree, Gold knows a thing or two about rugby from analyst point of you. He’s good I reckon, agree Coaching not so much, he wasnt special at the Stormers.
November 9th, 2009 at 6:38 pm
Go to News24 dot com quickly to see the woman Toks vd Linde hit on national TV
He pick-up line was something like this: ” And the million dollar question is, what are you doing tonight? ”
She later walked passed and gave Tony Ndoro a kiss on the cheek which really freaked him (Tony) out; Tokka was also freaked out
November 9th, 2009 at 6:54 pm
Anyone ready to be seriously honest here, the real f’up under the circumstances on Friday night were not, Maku, Raubenheimer, Johnson, Adams, De Jongh, Nokwe, Rose, Hargreaves, Deysel, Potgieter or Viljoen.
The f’up was Steenkamp, Chili Boy, Du Plessis, Roussouw, Pienaar, Olivier, Ndungane.
Now if we had had a scrum that could have stood up to those guys I say we would have won, we were looking OK till the scrum half bust through the middle sent the center and wing away for their first try and thats when the panic set in and we disintegrated into a bunch of loss kop individuals with Roussouw and Bekker, and Deysel and Johnson trying to win the game on their own.
Poor planning and poor execution, purely out of a lack of cohesion and togetherness, and especially poor scrumming. But don’t start driving this transformation issue as the problem, the problem came from seasoned Springboks as much if not more than from the rookies.
November 9th, 2009 at 6:54 pm
#183 Storm outta hell:
yep mat proudfoot has turned that pack around…
November 9th, 2009 at 6:55 pm
#165 moedeloos: #187 skopskiet: is this the KEO you guys are yearning for?
Mediocrity triumphs
We are not a mediocre sporting nation that settles for second best. And what the Springboks have offered in the last 24 months has been second best, writes Keo in his Business Day column.
An opportunity was lost in not dismissing Jake White as Springbok coach. One victory, against an England side whose only success in their last nine internationals was against the Boks, has created an illusion of comfort.
The President’s Council determined that White was the right man to lead South Africa to the World Cup. They were comfortable in everything White was doing and expressed confidence in his so-called World Cup plan and in his team’s performances for 2006.
Apparently they also accepted White’s belief that Santa Claus lives.
Flying White to Cape Town from London to give him a pat on the back, at a cost of R40 000, was a farce and another example of the flaky fiscal discipline one associates with the South African Rugby Union.
The President’s Council, devoid of individuals with the rugby technical background, was ill-equipped to analyse White’s Boks. The structural weakness within the national organization was again exposed through the absence of a strong National Director of Rugby and a rugby technical committee. It is this Director of Rugby who should have led the inquisition into the national coach and Springbok rugby.
This person should have probed the details of White’s 59 percent success rate in 37 tests, which is less than the Boks historical test winning average of 62.24 percent. White’s success has dropped each year, from 69 percent to 66 percent to 41 percent in 2006. His selections have been poor; his choice of game plan equally poor and his refusal to change has stunted progress. These are all issues a rugby committee should have dissected.
Why could the Boks only score 18 tries in their last 11 tests? Why did they leak 33 tries in the same period? What was the explanation for crushing defeats at home against the French and All Blacks? How did the Springboks lose 49-0 to Australia in Brisbane and 32-15 to Ireland in Dublin? What technically was wrong with the Boks in Dublin that Ireland broke the Bok line on 18 occasions? Why were blokes picked and played out of position all year?
How difficult was White’s schedule when compared to the demands placed on Andre Markgraaff in 1996 when the Boks played the All Blacks five times, Australia twice and France twice in France? Or how different was it to Harry Viljoen’s 2001 when the Boks played the French three times, the All Blacks twice, Australia twice and a potent England at Twickenham? How different was it to every one of Nick Mallett’s years in charge or even Rudolf Straeuli’s? The fact is it wasn’t that much different and ever year the Boks have a difficult itinerary.
But it is expected that Springbok teams cope. Only New Zealand can compare with the production line of talent produced in South Africa. The expectation on the Boks is rightfully high and it is unacceptable when a Bok team gets thrashed twice in South Africa, as happened against France and New Zealand, and loses so easily against decent opposition away from home.
There should be a consequence to these results, which there was not otherwise White would not be the national coach this morning.
Asking everyone to be supportive of the national coach and to project an image of sunshine does not address the problems pointed out in this column. The Boks, in 2006, did not play good rugby and the national coach has not once given the public an explanation as to why this is the case.
The public should not be accepting of SARU press releases that state the coach explained to the President’s Council that his World Cup plan is on track. What plan? A plan that produced three wins in 10 against the major World Cup opposition? A plan based on picking 12 white players out of 15 on average every weekend?
Springbok teams cannot settle for second best and the paying public should never accommodate the kind of mediocrity the well paid White’s well paid professionals have produced.
In 2006 we’ve been forced to watch a clueless Bok team and then been subjected to the ramblings of a coach who has perfected the art of coming second and convinced the 14 provincial presidents that he has actually come first.
The New Year cannot come soon enough. Enjoy the man in the red suit with the white beard because he apparently also has a World Cup plan for White’s Boks.
This entry was posted on Monday, December 4th, 2006
November 9th, 2009 at 6:55 pm
Olivier wtf did he do wrong?
November 9th, 2009 at 6:56 pm
#186 Sheriff: tatum keshwar?
November 9th, 2009 at 7:19 pm
#189 Pearl Rose: key difference between JW and PDV:
JW loses – Keo hates him. JW wins – Keo loves him, pushes his book like it’s opium, erects a life-sized statue of JW in his living room.
PDV loses- Keo hates him. PDV wins – Keo hates him.
November 9th, 2009 at 7:19 pm
we can argue why they lost, but 2 things are not arguable:
1) transformation is selection based purely on skin colour
2) the midweek side that lost to leicester’s 2nd team is not the next best set of players in SA.
November 9th, 2009 at 7:25 pm
#193 cab:
The midweek side was never supposed to be the next best set of players, otherwise the Emerging Bok players would all have gone on tour.
November 9th, 2009 at 7:28 pm
#194 David:
but then why is mr oregan hoskins calling this squad a ‘merit-only’ squad?
merit only means the best players in SA, not the best players of a certain colour in SA.
i am not arguing for the merits or demerits of transformation, i simply stating what it is and what the present bok squad is.
November 9th, 2009 at 7:29 pm
#191 Pearl Rose:
Yes, thats the one.
Tokka was involved in a controversy a few years back in NZ; it seems like he has changed his mind in the meantime.
November 9th, 2009 at 7:47 pm
#195 cab:
I suppose it depends on what he considered the reference point for merit. If it was as backup to the existing Bok squad, then other players merited to go instead. If it was to get a look at the potential of young players who didn’t get much exposure at S14 level this year, then their selection was merited.
I reckon it all depends on the context of the purpose for selecting the extra dirt trackers.
November 9th, 2009 at 7:48 pm
#193 cab: to remedy what exactly cab…you are most definitely right on your point no.1 AND NO APOLOGIES NEED TO BE OFFERED!
November 9th, 2009 at 7:50 pm
#196 Sheriff: come on sheriff, toks said that woman was annoying, loud & acting like a groupie and they were trying to relax…she should’ve never put herself in that situation. plus Toks thought that word had stopped being hate speech!
November 9th, 2009 at 7:55 pm
#199 Transformation:
Tokka has been transformed.
He is breaking bread met South Africans across the spectrum these days
November 9th, 2009 at 7:55 pm
#194 David:
Making that kind of a bold statement first requires a definition:
“What WAS The midweek side ever supposed to be then”?
Does it need the C Team of Leicester to expose the futility of a non merit selection of 11 players who wouldn’t even make the Super14 bench?
I think not
November 9th, 2009 at 7:57 pm
#74 Tacitus: Amen, Amen Amen to everything you say.
#76 sharks_lover: And if you doing the same, minus the racism slant, what does that make you? Just a plain old bigot?
#80 sharks_lover:
You said it mate! No use running off Deysel or Ashley for that matter, they never pass the ball at any rate!
#113 sharks_lover:
Now you’re starting to make sense. Those 3 as a combo will be giantkillers.
November 9th, 2009 at 7:58 pm
#197 David: you’re getting close…the premise is that the super14 coaches are not helping the national cause ie Transforming Rugby in this country…PDV is a case in point…SARU had to bite the bullet & appoint him regardless of the ridicule & invective that thay anticipated…that’s what i reckon pdv was going for with some of the “off-beat selections” and i expect him to apply his “theory” of “black mechanic/white mechanic”
if he can perservere with a ouit of sorts pierre spies, then he can show faith in any other player he rates highly.
November 9th, 2009 at 8:01 pm
#197 David:#194 David: what was it supposed to be then? a fkn embarrassment?
November 9th, 2009 at 8:07 pm
again I ask which of those 22 that played against Leicester are not merit based and which were not next best?
Pdv was looking to promote players he believed could step up. He was wrong with a few but who were they?
1. Pienaar, Eddy Jones own Larkham type prodigy?
2. Roussouw, JW.’s (and Pdv’s) no.2 lock option behind Bakkies Botha?
3. Steenkamp, JW’s no.2 Lh prop behind Os Durant?
4. Du Plessis, Sharks backup no.2 bok TH in the country behind another pap broek Th J. Smit?
5. Bekker, 2nd in line line out option lock behind Matfield?
6. Olivier, next best no. 12 center behind Jdv?
7. Ndungane, incumbent bok right wing if JPP gets injured or subbed?
That tight 5 let the team down. The rot got exposed in the tight 5, not Raubenheimer, or Potgieter, or Johnson, or Adams, or De Jongh, or Nokwe, or Rose or Hargreaves or Viljoen or Deysel or Nokwe.
If the seasoned bok tight 5 players had stood up to the task the rest of the team would have won. Blame transformation and de merit selections all you like, the soft belly of the overrated springbok tight 5 back up was severely exposed. And I got a hunch the front line tight 5 and centers and full back going to get exposed perhaps just as bad this week coming.
Some us supporters been screaming into the ether that we living on borrowed credentials. We think we far stronger than we actually are. I would have brought new players into the front line team long ago already. Only now we going to see the results of trading on borrowed over traded legacy too long. Some big ego’s might get bust as a result. But rugby is not a stagnant gauge of talent and ability. You don’t move with the development and progress within your own talent base you going to come a cropper.
November 9th, 2009 at 8:07 pm
#195 cab:
Hoskins is not the problem here
The problem are those among us who paid attention to his drivel and took his nonsense as a face value.
Every time this CC season when Steenkamp took the field against Smit, FS’ Nel, Brock Harris or Kevin Buys he was whacked, now, how on earth you could select that token against a TH name Castrogiovani?
November 9th, 2009 at 8:13 pm
#197 David:
in its plain meaning ‘merit’ means the best, class or race is irrelevant.
we can use carefully constructed words like ‘transformation’ or ‘development’, or argue as to a subjective frame of reference of merit – but i would ask you a simple question, if you were to pick a side (the next best after the bok XV) to play for your life, would you currently pick ralapelle over liebenberg or raubenheimer over deysel?
#198 Transformation:
yes point 1 is definitely right, but whether or not transformation should be considered a necessary evil is for ppl to discuss and decide for themselves, i would say it is not clearcut at all – sins of the father and all.
November 9th, 2009 at 8:15 pm
can guarantee you Hondo that whichever Lh we played against Castrogiovani he would have got taken apart. Just as Heinke van der Merwe got to find out. Meanwhile on the other side of the scrum our other seasoned bok back up Th was getting shown his *** maybe even worse.
November 9th, 2009 at 8:20 pm
#205 skopskiet:
i said already who i considered to be quota selections.
Ralapelle, Maku, Raubenheimer should never have been there. They are not even close to the best in their position but worse have not played any regular first grade rugby.
They might be great players one day, but their is absolutely no justification for their being made Springboks other than race reservation based purely on skin colour.
November 9th, 2009 at 8:21 pm
#207 cab: until someone comes with an alternative & workable solution i reckon it will continue…because putting faith in people just changing their perceptions & habits fostered over years of indoctrination is a pipe dream.
November 9th, 2009 at 8:22 pm
the real problem with our game on fri was the very poor play up front in the loose and during set pieces, our fowards weren’t up for it and on top of that Ruan had a shocker of a game. Ruan should be left at 9.
November 9th, 2009 at 8:27 pm
#209 cab:
Do we have to assume then that Heini Adams, Earl Rose, Ashly Johnson and Nokwe are the best at their positions?
That’s what I conclude from your posting
November 9th, 2009 at 8:27 pm
#201 Hondo: #204 byoboy:
Stop looking at it from the perspective of who you think should have been selected and see it from what the perspective of what the intention was.
The core of that side were senior players from the Bok squad who generally came on off the bench. This included the whole tight five, the flyhalf and inside centre and both wings. Initially it was also supposed to include Brussow on the flank. Potgieter was also included, I suspect, as a replacement for Spies in the squad. Into that mix were a few players who were kept out of S14 game time for various reasons that the coaches wanted to get a better look at.
I would also like to point out that the CC is not the basis for full Bok selection, the S14 is.
Considering that most bloggers here reckon the CC is way above the NH competitions for quality, a game against what we knew would be a depleted Tigers side shouldn’t have posed a problem.
The reality, of course, was rather different.
November 9th, 2009 at 8:31 pm
I tell you where the problem is. Not Raubenheimer or Maku, Chili yes was an experiment doomed to fail. But Maku actually climbed in in the loose.
That f.ak up on Friday night you can lay squarely at the 2 soft pap broek seasoned props door. And a fly half that cringes when he has to deliver under pressure. Plus a right wing that is not an international class wing even though he’s been deputing for JPP since 2007 and even before.
Raubenheimer was in over his head to some extent, but the rot was in the tight 5, all long serving reasoned bok’s apart from the stand in hooker who did pretty much ok.
November 9th, 2009 at 8:32 pm
#82 skopskiet: I can’t fault your reasoning there Skoppie!
If the Boks go into the French test with the wrong loosie on the bench, we WILL lose. The sad thing is we are going to sit here next week lamenting his absense. And by the way, whoever reckons he is not physical or hard enough have never been tackled by him.
November 9th, 2009 at 8:34 pm
#212 Hondo:
No, but at least some of those get regular starting time and have play regular topgrade rugby in the S14.
De Jong and to a lesser extent Johnson add alot to the Bok squad. Mapoe would’ve done the same. Those are proper merit-only springbok selections.
November 9th, 2009 at 8:36 pm
#213 David:
It’s a well known mantra that it takes one passanger among the forwards to lose a rugby game
There were 4 on Friday: Steenkamp, Chiliboy/Maku, Ruabenheimer and Johnson.
They were whacked by a combination of Leicester’s ‘B’ and Reserved teams.
I took a bet on Friday morning and won comfortably, am I the only rugby knowledgable here?
November 9th, 2009 at 8:38 pm
#205 skopskiet:
You know Skoppie I wish you would tone down on the racial baggage cause I reckon I agree with you mostly on things rugby.
November 9th, 2009 at 8:39 pm
and Hondo’s mind simply can’t get round the fact that Rose and Nokwe played far better than seasoned Jw selections Pienaar and Ndungane.
I personally would have picked totally different players in position, but then I would have picked current form players from the Cc. I would have disregarded prissy prestige and reputation altogether.
My team would have represented the players that shone in the Cc and not one of those front 5 apart from Bekker would have started.
November 9th, 2009 at 8:41 pm
#217 Hondo:
I would add Dr Jannie Dup to the passenger list and remove Johnson who played quite well imo.
Danie Rossouw was also very average and Bekker only slightly better.
November 9th, 2009 at 8:44 pm
with the possible exception of raubenheimer, that forward pack should have matched the pack of any of the top 4 cc teams, never mind a leicester b team.
with the proper preparation that is.
but they had slapgat **** muir preparing them while pdv and gg were with the “1st” team.
they were caught cold because there was no hardnosed forwards coach making sure they scrummed as a unit on the hit and made the rucks their own.
stop blaming individuals – i am sick of you guys laying into gurthro, chili, jdp, bekker and pakslae.
they didn’t have a chance
November 9th, 2009 at 8:46 pm
the last “Springboks XV” to play before this one looked a little something like this.
Chiliboy makes history
Twenty year old Chiliboy Ralepelle will captain the Springbok XV when they take on the World XV on Sunday.
The SA U21 skipper becomes the first black player to lead a senior South African team in history, and the youngest across all demographics. He is also the second player from Pretoria Boys’ High to receive such an honour, John Smit being the first.
Ralepelle’s Vodacom Blue Bulls captain Gary Botha is on the bench for the first time on tour, and is expected to get game time in the second half, at which time he will also assume the leadership of the Bok team. This is also a first for Botha, who too has captained South Africa at U21 level.
The team for this non-cap international sees 10 changes from the side who defeated England at Twickenham last week. Wynand Olivier remains in the midfield, but Francois Steyn moves to flyhalf. In the pack, Danie Rossouw and Johan Ackermann stay put, while try-scorer CJ van der Linde shifts back to the tighthead side.
Ruan Pienaar finally gets a chance to start at scrumhalf, and JP Pietersen is also given a game albeit on the wing. After a tough introduction to Test rugby against the Irish at Lansdowne Road, Bevin Fortuin and Jaco Pretorius are once again named at fullback and right wing respectively.
Of the players who have flown over recently, De Wet Barry gets his first match in Springbok colours since the flop against France in June. Gerrie Britz and Wikus van Heerden join Rossouw in a big back row, while Meyer Bosman and Jongi Nokwe warm the bench.
Springbok XV: 15 Bevin Fortuin, 14 Jaco Pretorius, 13 Wynand Olivier, 12 De Wet Barry, 11 JP Pietersen, 10 Francois Steyn, 9 Ruan Pienaar, 8 Danie Rossouw, 7 Gerrie Britz, 6 Wikus van Heerden, 5 Albert van den Berg, 4 Johan Ackermann, 3 CJ van der Linde, 2 Chiliboy Ralepelle, 1 Deon Carstens. Replacements: 16 Gary Botha, 17 Lawrence Sephaka, 18 Selborne Boome, 19, Hilton Lobberts, 20 Ricky Januarie, 21 Meyer Bosman, 22 Jongi Nokwe.
This entry was posted on Wednesday, November 29th, 2006
November 9th, 2009 at 8:47 pm
#217 Hondo:
Your first sentence is spot on, but it was let down by 2 (not 4) of those selections. Ralapelle and Raubenheimer were carried.
However, transformation was def not the only reason for the loss, the other reason was that 3 of the tight 5 have not played regular first grade rugby for 80mins and the other reason was they were a team who had been throw together without any cohesion or training. A coach should be appointed and be allowed to work with these guys for a couple of weeks before, like the emerging boks v the BIL. in fact, wtf happened to Sykes and Deysel and Vermeulen who stood out in that game?
November 9th, 2009 at 8:48 pm
Well i just hope i never live to see the day a Bok scrum gets so manhandled again…i was bloody embaressed to say the very least. This **** that the set scrum is defunct and just a way to start the game bit us very hard on Fri….and may even do so again this weekend.
I am thrilled that PDV has acted ruthlessly in righting the ship….good on him on getting in his namesake to assist….he should go a step further and make a scrum coach a permenent post in his management set up.
Also CJ will hopefully add some stability…although the radical step of moving Smit to the bench or to hooker will probably come later….cant see PDV doing it now.
We aint beat those frogs in France since 1997…..tough ask…..
Bench will be crucial….
November 9th, 2009 at 8:49 pm
Morne Steyn and Hein Brussow excelled this year as they played in an established unit.
That is not the only reason, but it contributed far more than what the blokes like the keo writers would concede or understand.
Certainly the lack of: playing together, time to practise, combinations contributed to their performance. Also the different circumstances require getting used to.
This defeat is deliberately amplified but I know that if this same team plays together for 2-3 matches they would be a far better unit. I agree that certain players were very questionable for eg Raub before Deysel. Just plain stupid. And where did Hargreaves and Heinke come from all of the sudden?
Its actually terrible to play in that type of situation, cause you want to shine, but each man really wants to shine as an indiv cause there is no cohesion. Perhaps the 1st game must be shifted to a week later so these guys can at least practise together for 2 weeks.
But the situation is what it is: CC final and then a week later in NH. Not ideal.Even the 1st team will have to work hard to get its rhythm back and time is not on its side.
November 9th, 2009 at 8:49 pm
#221 charo:
If that is the case that **** was left on his own to do the coaching we can also not blame him for the fiasco as he is not a forward coach.
Who can we blame?
November 9th, 2009 at 8:49 pm
#217 Hondo: Now you talking sense. Blaming the tight-5 is stupid. The loosies dropped them big time and no amount of short Jonsonal-bursts will change that.
They were useless in the line-out as well, you know just about when Chilli/Maku were stuffing up the calls/throw-in.
Rose was a laugh, please realize we were playing a second string club side. One chip pony!!!
November 9th, 2009 at 8:50 pm
#220 Robzim:
Take a cue from Olie Le Roux:
The Bok scrum was humiliated by the Tigers on Friday night, but Le Roux believes things will be different with Du Preez and Strauss in the tight five.
“Wian attacks the tighthead a lot more, while Gurthrö is struggling along. Adriaan also helps mould the front row into a unit. If you put Jannie du Plessis, Adriaan and Wian together, you’ll have a pretty decent front row,” said Le Roux.
The Tigers exploited that lack of game time. Leicester bullied South Africa in the scrums and Van der Merwe’s scrumming did not justify his selection.
“Anybody could see Peter de Villiers (Bok coach) included players who did not deserve to be there,” said Le Roux.
“Steenkamp did not deserve his selection considering form, while the hookers Ralepelle and Bandise Maku have not even proved themselves at Currie Cup level. It is unfair towards players that have performed.”
Say no more!
November 9th, 2009 at 8:53 pm
#227 Kronung:
many bad apples on that day of shame!
See what Olie Le Roux has to say in #228
November 9th, 2009 at 8:53 pm
the passengers in that team Friday night were Roussouw, Du Plessis, Steenkamp, Chili Boy, Raubenheimer, Pienaar, Ndungane and perhaps Olivier.
None of the others.
Pdv made the mistake of trying to fly his transformation potential left field options around a foundation of seasoned bok’s who are papper than pap. More overrated and swak than they ever realized. The front 5 second option players were all JW NO. 2’s in their position each and every one of them were designated back up 2nd string bok’s from LH to TH to the two back up locks. They the ones that folded none of your quota bashing boys like Rose or Adams or Johnson or De Jongh or Nokwe. Look at your swak front row and 2nd row thats where you better focus your attention, idiots, leave the quotas alone.
November 9th, 2009 at 8:55 pm
#225 Sheriff:
To pick Heinke, who has not played any rugby for 6 months, ahead of battle hardened players must go down as one of the most stupid selections in SA rugby history.
November 9th, 2009 at 8:55 pm
#228 Hondo:
Its amazing how often Ollie le Roux gets quoted.
I guess its just so much easier to locate him, narrow down your search to places where they sell hamburgers.
November 9th, 2009 at 8:55 pm
#225 Sheriff:
yes agree with alot of that. the cohesion and lack of match prep is largely unavoidable. i actually have no idea why a player like sykes was not on this tour, its really beyond me, especially after the role he and deysel played in the BIL pack.
November 9th, 2009 at 8:57 pm
#226 Robzim:
hi rob,
i have advocated a hardnosed forwards coach for some time. almost every other international team has one. gg is a rugby brain/analyst – not a scrumming maestro.
balie swart, matthew proudfoot, os etc have proved their worth.
**** knows zip about forward play. so 8 newcomers are meant to suddenly gel and take on a club team who know each other.
no chance in my book
November 9th, 2009 at 8:59 pm
#223 cab:
That’s an open, fair discussion
Let me ask you this:
For argument sake a coach has a performance clause in his contract, then say his job’s on the line, would such a coach carry the like of Chiliboy, Steenkamp, Maku, Raubenheimer, Adams, Rose and few more to face Ireland and France in Europe?
November 9th, 2009 at 8:59 pm
A scrum under pressure is 1 thing…..
a scrum going back l;ike a turbo chsrged Maserati is another!
Really difficult to judge any of those players outside of the pack….its just not fair….
Even the loosies cop flack for what is primarily a tight 5 stuff up…..
I just hope some players reputations dont suffer irrepatable harm ….especially guys like A Johnson and Dewalt Potgieter….
November 9th, 2009 at 8:59 pm
#231 Robzim:
Bizarre.
November 9th, 2009 at 9:03 pm
#234 charo:
I guess you are right.
I saw on SABC news tonight Pieter de Villiers (the prop)working with the A team.
It appears as if he was urging them to pack down lower.
I am not sure whether such once-off sessions add much value though.
November 9th, 2009 at 9:04 pm
tHEY SHOULD WORRY, THAT WAS A K*K TEAM SELECTION AND HALF THE OUS GAVE UP HALFWAY THRU THE 2ND HALF. Sorry CAPS, **** also didnt pay attention to european conditions this time of the year….and no back up of any note for Chiliboy. The Boks played poorly.
November 9th, 2009 at 9:05 pm
Why the suprise about the bad scrumming against a “second string” Leicster team? They scrummed against a “third string” bok team. The cheetahs front row desmantled the Sharks and Bulls however better than 1st but not good enough for the 2nd? Someone is pushing the bill…
November 9th, 2009 at 9:06 pm
Potgieter and Brussow were the original flanks until Spies got injured, with Johnson at 8 and Raubenheimer on the bench. Does anyone have a serious problem with that? Wian has done very little, at 27 years, until this years CC to prove that he was an experienced or obvious replacement for Gurthro.
So, people would replace Danie with Sykes. Is that it?
November 9th, 2009 at 9:07 pm
our scrum is going to catch a wake up against France, we have had scrummage issues building for a while now.
November 9th, 2009 at 9:08 pm
#232 Sheriff:
hehehe!
Remember when he dropped a ball on the try line in Aus few years ago?
The media there was making a mince of Olie looks for a Bar One on the pitch.
I tell you, that Castrogiovani is of a monster status we haven’t seen since the Lud Muller/Heinrich Rodgers/Atti Straus/Tommy Laubscher/Guy Kebble era.
November 9th, 2009 at 9:08 pm
What I wanna know is how great was our Eoyt results the last 10 years, obviously those coaches like Streauli and White had performance clauses in their contracts and they didn’t select passengers, so how come they lost record scores to England, lost to Scotland, lost to Ireland every time they faced them, ditto for France. How come these performance based coaches that were so performance aligned and weren’t carrying any passengers f.ng LOST more than they won? Baffles the performance based brain!
Next time we play quotas just make sure we play a proper set of tight forwards to hang the transformation cookie on.
November 9th, 2009 at 9:09 pm
#242 4man: Dont mention that…you will get shot for treason for stating the obvious!
November 9th, 2009 at 9:09 pm
#213 David: ‘a game against what we knew would be a depleted Tigers side shouldn’t have posed a problem.
The reality, of course, was rather different.’
your arguement that because the ‘bok’ side lost on fri means the CC is not as good as we think makes no sense at all.
the reason that we lost against the tigers doesn’t mean that our CC sides are weak, i rek our top 6 CC sides could have kicked the tiger’s asses. We lost that game due to
1. only 3 training sessions,
2. untested combos ;and
3 some 3rd rate selections made obviously due to racist political agendas.
November 9th, 2009 at 9:10 pm
#241 David:
Well,
Moment of truth was last Friday, say no more
Wiam was good enough to nudge Oli Le Roux out of the Cheetahs front row, an excellent credential
November 9th, 2009 at 9:11 pm
#238 Robzim:
my view exactly – little knee jerk reaction sessions over a day or two add some value but we need a fulltime hardnosed no-kuk scrumming coach.
just like the old danie craven days when scrumming practice was hell but the forwards were well prepared for the game.
November 9th, 2009 at 9:11 pm
Just hope that the ex French 3 makes an impression on the front row….will be fantastic if we can at least get parity and secure our own ball from a solid platform. Then we in with a chance.
November 9th, 2009 at 9:14 pm
all the previous coahces had exactly the same transformation issues to deal with, and failed just as miserably. its got nothing to do with the coaches, its the policy, which means at least, maybe 2 and sometimes even more players are selected at a level where success depends on inches.
November 9th, 2009 at 9:15 pm
#243 Hondo:
I guess what puzzles me is this: since when is Ollie le Roux an expert?
But I guess he is just the type of guy that will be prepared to say what others wont.
If you think about it: Steenkamp, Chili and Doc Jannie are really underperformers consistently. Gastro not the guy he was a season or 2 ago.
Chili always as in always injured but also always 1st on the list when a Bok team is announced.
Doc Jannie – well he strikes me as a bit of a lazy ar$e. I know Cobus Visagie rated him a few years ago, but he has never quite delivered.
Its good that they’re working with Pieter de Villiers – knows French conditions and players, but they need to look to more permanent consultant, someone like Visagie – who specialised in tighthead and have earned respect in NH.
November 9th, 2009 at 9:15 pm
That frenchy PDV says in an interview that the French take the scrums as a Honour type thing…hate being bullied there….reckon they put a helleva lot more emphasis on scrums than here in SA….
That oke played 60 odd tests for France….now settled back in Stellenbosch….35 years old…pity he didnt have a season or 2 for Stormers!
November 9th, 2009 at 9:15 pm
we are going to f’ck dem frogs up…pity about kanko tho.
if i had my way, it would be ou dose steamrollering them into the ground.
November 9th, 2009 at 9:17 pm
Beasty must also stick his hand up and get a bit worked up.
Smit will bust his ballas, watch net.
November 9th, 2009 at 9:18 pm
at least with sharks missing out in semis a few boks will be well rested…
November 9th, 2009 at 9:18 pm
#249 grant10: Tight 5 will be ok come Friday. Loosies almost the same, but not quite. Smit and Kanko the only unknown.
Morne will save the game regardless. Goodness knows he did it for the Bulls with 25% possession.
November 9th, 2009 at 9:18 pm
#254 cab: Ja…Beast has gone off the boil a lot….
November 9th, 2009 at 9:22 pm
#256 Kronung: Hope so…we just need to get parity in scrums….then i am happy….
Lineouts we cool
MS and FDP can do the business …i reckon we will keep it tight….
I hear the french have a real monster 12….105 kg and out to make a name for himself….so Schalk and Brussow will need to get into that channel and cut him down….
Not sure if i would bet on Boks….but will be offering up sacrifices to the rugby Gods!
November 9th, 2009 at 9:22 pm
#252 grant10:
In Stellenbosch you will probably find more more ex internationals per square meter than anywhere else in the world.
We are going to k@k on Friday, the French team is very strong and not only in the scrums.
Their loose trio also worries me – big, fast and strong.
I watched the new no 8 (Louis Picamoles) a few times on TV. – really top class – Kanko better be up to it or there will be tears again on Friday night.
November 9th, 2009 at 9:24 pm
Boks will win, but just just. Its the only way I can see it. CJ will be better than what he was, European conditions are good for props to get better at their trade.
November 9th, 2009 at 9:24 pm
#259 Robzim:
picamoles is a toughie for sure.
should have been deysel at 7 and schalk at 8.
we still going to moer padda tho.
asb.
November 9th, 2009 at 9:25 pm
#246 byoboy:
just the tip of the iceberg
I watched a better Leicester team whacked a week ago by Leeds, YES, Leeds!
It was a ferocious rugby, imagine the SA XV would have lost to Leeds instead?
November 9th, 2009 at 9:25 pm
#259 Robzim:
crickey rob, how many ex internationals can fit into a sq metre.
sorry…weak joke – sounding like david now.
November 9th, 2009 at 9:26 pm
#260 4man:
Was the Boks Team for the French Test announced?
November 9th, 2009 at 9:28 pm
#259 Robzim: Ja….i am nervous about this one….Croke Park also gonna be a swine…..even the Italians will fancy there chances of dismantling our scrum Rob….and its often the start of trouble!
But lets hope Beast…Bissy and Smit do the business….
I have heard good things about the French loose trio as well….havent seen them a lot so look forward to the game….
#260 4man:
November 9th, 2009 at 9:29 pm
#261 cab:
Imagine the fireworks on keo if we should lose.
I am seriously worried – some of our top guys are moeg as well.
But we have Morne
Asb. once more.
November 9th, 2009 at 9:29 pm
kanko going to see his gat and Roussouw is not the answer to the Frenchie either. I got some serious worries about Smit he wont stand up for more than 50 min then CJ going to come on against these bust a gut Gallo boys. Then they left all their bruisers like Chabal to come off bench. These Frogs going to come at us like its the revolution and they aiming for a guillotine ritual or two.
November 9th, 2009 at 9:30 pm
#260 4man: Good to hear that CJ will have improved….good to have a genuine 3 in the mix again .
November 9th, 2009 at 9:31 pm
#264 Hondo: Not yet Boet.
November 9th, 2009 at 9:31 pm
i think we will do well in the scrums on friday, atleast parity i would say, whenever the pressure was on at scrum time the boys delivered, so im not to worried about our front row, more worried about the midfield
November 9th, 2009 at 9:32 pm
Cab seems confident….and living over there he must know a few things we dont….
Just cant get rid of this gut feel that says its gonna be a long night!
November 9th, 2009 at 9:32 pm
#263 charo:
Divan Serfonteyn has unfortunately moved to Bellville, he might have fitted in.
November 9th, 2009 at 9:32 pm
#260 4man:
yes that is what i think, hope cj on bench.
#266 Robzim:
lol, it will be carnage.
yes, once more.
yes chabal will come out, but Burger needs to hit him hard when he comes on. our boys must just bash em for 80.
November 9th, 2009 at 9:33 pm
#272 Robzim: LOL
November 9th, 2009 at 9:33 pm
can imagine the french will have more motivation than the boks.
beat ab’s in nz and now face world champions and trinations victors.
they will be fired up…hope pdv can get our boys psyched
November 9th, 2009 at 9:34 pm
#271 grant10:
nah, they very good, but this is a great bokke side if it plays with hunger, if matfield and kanko and beast go missing we poked, but if they all up for it – u not going to find any side to beat Bokke over 80mins.
November 9th, 2009 at 9:34 pm
Bok bench must be carefully selected and managed….vital.
No bloody softies for this one…
November 9th, 2009 at 9:35 pm
#276 cab: From your lips…
Cheers all
Outta here
November 9th, 2009 at 9:38 pm
#278 grant10:
See u, easy on Smittie tomorrow, he might soon be gone
November 9th, 2009 at 9:40 pm
cheers guys…supper time and the dog also wants me to throw the ball
November 9th, 2009 at 9:40 pm
24 – 18 to the bokke cant wait! expecting a few droppies from morne aswel, and wouldnt be fantastic if Adi scored a intercept try ala jdv
November 9th, 2009 at 9:41 pm
#280 4man:
See u, Mr Lifesaver.
November 9th, 2009 at 9:54 pm
#279 Robzim:
only if HE wants to
November 9th, 2009 at 9:58 pm
#283 charo:
Do you think John will be around till the next world cup?
My views are not much different to those of Grant on this issue, you know it is a WeePee thing
November 9th, 2009 at 9:59 pm
good thing Leicester did us 3 big favors. They got rid of Jannie pap broek, Gurthro and Chili in one fell swoop. So now it won’t be Jdp on bench, nor Chili or Gurthro. Now its Heinke and Strauss and Cj on bench, so who you gotta thank Leicester and Castro. Next problem is Deysel to play bench and Bekker or Danie or Potgieter. Our achilles heel is Kanko and perhaps mid field and full back.
Should have been Kanko on bench or Potgieter on bench. Brussow, Deysel and Burger to start.
Dusetoir, Harinordequi and Picamoles are going to be one handful. Kanko to soft for these oke’s and Roussouw to lam and slow. Should have been Burger, Deysel, Brussow with Potgieter off bench.
Adi and Fourie better deliver and Kirchner at back. Plenty going to hedge around how MS controls our go forward ball. I suspect kick n chase till the cows come home.
November 9th, 2009 at 9:59 pm
#252 grant10: We used to thnk like that but w ehave fallen through our asses with quotas and other interference.
November 9th, 2009 at 10:08 pm
anyone know when the team gets announced?
November 9th, 2009 at 10:12 pm
#284 Robzim: John Smit will be part of the squad but will not Captain. I have a sneaky feeling a certain man by the name of Brussow is tipped for that honour.
November 9th, 2009 at 10:12 pm
also is there anyway to change your name? i could just register again but then i lose my precious keo $$$
November 9th, 2009 at 10:12 pm
#195 cab:
“merit only means the best players in SA, not the best players of a certain colour in SA.”
merit (plural merits)
1. Something deserving either good or bad recognition.
2. Something worthy of a high rating.
Not according to wiki.
November 9th, 2009 at 10:13 pm
#281 Mustard: I hope so too. But my Crystal Ball is telling me France is winning by 8. I hope its broken.
November 9th, 2009 at 10:14 pm
Hmm
Ratel Brussow, Vin Deysel and Kanko. A new breed of loosies?
So we dont have a problem with loosies, as an ausie said before all south africans are born loosies we just start playing other positions. The question i keep asking is whats,whos after the due of matfield and botha????
Bekker is not the answer!!!! sorry wp supporters, and no one else is really putting their hands up!!
November 9th, 2009 at 10:16 pm
QUESTION !!!!!!!
What is a Ratel ?
IS this Heinrichs nickname in real life >>>
November 9th, 2009 at 10:16 pm
#266 Robzim:
Yeah. It seems some has already returned from R-T under different names waiting for that to happen. It will be mayhem here on Keo over the next three weeks, I tell you.
November 9th, 2009 at 10:16 pm
#287 AndrewBK:
Tomorrow at 12h00.
November 9th, 2009 at 10:19 pm
#293 rugbygenius:
Honey=badger.
November 9th, 2009 at 10:19 pm
#292 pvz.shark:
Well, Victor Matfield holds a different view about Bekker and he is not a WP supporter and should know a bit about whether a lock is good or not.
November 9th, 2009 at 10:20 pm
#296 nama1:
sorry: honey badger
November 9th, 2009 at 10:22 pm
Again. Would it be too far fetched to say that the inside centre position should be a loosie, piere spies type player.
then you have a 12 that can cover at 7 and vice verca?
just a thought. while the 7 is getting up from the brakdown the 12 gets in the thick of things in the new breakdown and 7 takes his place at 12?
hmmm
Ja ja. this from someone who stil thinks the freestate loose trio of adre,rassie and AJ was the best combo ever.
and the combo of atherton,andrews,
November 9th, 2009 at 10:22 pm
#293 rugbygenius: Nope dont know but he is as tough as one
November 9th, 2009 at 10:22 pm
#294 nama1:
I noticed a couple of dodge posters lurking around as well.
Some of them “sounds” very familiar but they use a different lay out (spacing and paragraphs)
I guess when the going gets tough and the klippies flow they might just blow their covers.
November 9th, 2009 at 10:23 pm
#298 nama1: Thank you NAMA . Is that his nickname or something ?
November 9th, 2009 at 10:23 pm
“They have a big strong pack and they will be very physical,’ Gold said. ‘They’re the one team in the world with New Zealand who can match our forwards with size.”
Actually teh English can do it too- but their general rugby skills suck and their kung-fu is weak.
November 9th, 2009 at 10:24 pm
#297 Robzim: Jip i am just an armchair rubgy player. but he is just good for line outs. not that hard of a worker. Lyk maar lomp.
November 9th, 2009 at 10:24 pm
#300 pvz.shark: Thanks PVZ- Shark. I keep hearing it . You wouldn’t happen to know ol’ Spies nickname would you ??
November 9th, 2009 at 10:26 pm
my gut says if France show us scant respect they can take us. If they apprehensive about our status as no.1 team and show us too much respect we should be able to handle them. If they are truly pumped for this test and throw the champs ullyses at us they’ll be one huge handful to handle in Toulouse.
We haven’t beaten France away since Mallets team of 1997
November 9th, 2009 at 10:26 pm
#305 rugbygenius: Nope. Just call him spies. Sharp and makes eina!
November 9th, 2009 at 10:28 pm
#307 pvz.shark: Heh heh heh. Ja . Spies is good enough isn’t.
November 9th, 2009 at 10:30 pm
#304 pvz.shark:
He is actually very good in the loose, is fast and has great ball skills.
The fact that he is nearly 8 feet tall makes him look more “lomp” than he really is.
His biggest problem seems to be injuries and that might stop him from reaching his full potential.
November 9th, 2009 at 10:30 pm
#292 pvz.shark:
One of the mistakes we make regarding that question is that we expect the incoming locks to be on a par with those two guys without realising that it took them time to get where they are now. Just think back about their first 30 test or so. Do you think they were this good back then?
What also helped a great deal in their case was the fact that they play for the same prince.
November 9th, 2009 at 10:32 pm
#302 rugbygenius:
Not sure.
November 9th, 2009 at 10:32 pm
#310 Robzim: Then i ask again
Who will fill the shoes.
We always had enforcers. Wiese,andrews,ackerman. Then for a short time we had none, then cam bakkies. whos next?
November 9th, 2009 at 10:34 pm
most underrated centre pairing in sa.
Brendon venter, helgard muller.
November 9th, 2009 at 10:34 pm
#312 pvz.shark: I’m sorry to but into your conversation. Danie Rossouw has a good few years left.
November 9th, 2009 at 10:35 pm
anyway, as long as it is not lobberts.
cheers everyone.
have a good one
November 9th, 2009 at 10:35 pm
Hargreaves Sykes Steenkamp Bekker De Villiers Lombard next generation of locks.
November 9th, 2009 at 10:36 pm
#313 pvz.shark: Here, here Muller was the bestest ! How many years for Vrystaat ? Most underated scrummie = Werner Swanepol.
November 9th, 2009 at 10:36 pm
#315 rugbygenius: Danie is like and old bedford. takes flippen long to start, then has n few hickups, then runs great til its shuts of again.
hit and miss
November 9th, 2009 at 10:37 pm
#318 rugbygenius:
ja old smiley. he was a genius.
November 9th, 2009 at 10:38 pm
#318 pvz.shark: But for an enforcer who is better ? He is our Troy Flavell. All Blacks and Aussies fear him . Leave the fancy stuff to the other lock. He’ll just be an enforcer.
November 9th, 2009 at 10:38 pm
#310 nama1:
That is why I don’t think exposing Hargreaves was such a bad idea. Who knows, come 2012/13 we might just be talking about him in the same way as we do about VM/Bakkies now.
Flippie’s laaitie (Francois) can also go far, I reckon given time and the right man management.
Btw what happened to his brother, who was at WP a few seasons back.
November 9th, 2009 at 10:40 pm
#319 pvz.shark: Since we are doing Nostalgia , can you imagine old Teichman behind todays pack ? With Andre Joubert at the fullback !
November 9th, 2009 at 10:40 pm
top 15 of my era
1.os
2.john smit
3.ollie
4.andrews
5.matfield
6 wahl/rassie
7. andre venter
8. gary teighman
9. josie
10.honiball
11.samll
14.kabous
12 japie mulder
13 pieter muller
15 andre jouba
November 9th, 2009 at 10:41 pm
#310 nama1:
prince=province
November 9th, 2009 at 10:41 pm
#323 rugbygenius: teichman would have been worlds best. and jouba with small.
November 9th, 2009 at 10:44 pm
#321 nama1:
His brother (Flip) went overseas to play rugby and study.
He already had a Masters degree before he left, so I think he is perhaps looking at other career options
November 9th, 2009 at 10:45 pm
#323 pvz.shark: No space for Pieter Rossouw ? Or Eddie Andrews ?
November 9th, 2009 at 10:46 pm
#325 pvz.shark: Yes . Deadly . Small under the bomb from Morne.
November 9th, 2009 at 10:47 pm
#328 rugbygenius: slaptjip[s was over rated. pieter hendriks was better than him
Or Eddie who?
November 9th, 2009 at 10:49 pm
#329 pvz.shark: Eddie Andrews . Under appreciated. One more ommision from your team is Percy . Jouba was old school.
November 9th, 2009 at 10:52 pm
#295 Robzim: thanks…
November 9th, 2009 at 10:56 pm
#326 Robzim:
Pity, if that is the case. I though he(Flip) showed more potential than Francois, who was playing for the Cheetahs at the time.
November 9th, 2009 at 11:07 pm
#332 nama1:
Sorry, I got the names mixed up. Francois is the one who played for WP and went overseas while Flip is the younger one who is at the moment with the Bulls and who previously played for the Free State.
November 9th, 2009 at 11:14 pm
#333 Robzim:
Then I had them mixed up as well.
Liverpool 1- Birmingham 2 after 48min. What do you think?
November 9th, 2009 at 11:55 pm
it’s over cadaver for Benitez, he is out of ideas…he can hide behind injuries but i’m not buying his nonsense. Anyway those american owners of liverpool are too broke to fire him cos Benitez signed a 5-year contract just last year so he’ll want a massive payout…
November 10th, 2009 at 12:09 am
French coaching staff
11/9/2009 4:34 PM
French coach: Good news ze playirs, Africa de Zuid will play a midget right in ze middle of ze field,so we just run right ova him. Assistant coach: Aaa, good idea, but we need to run up and support ze man there’s still a fullback to beat yes? French coach: Silly assistant coach, ze fullback’s not be Frans Steyn or Joe Peterson. Assistant coach: BUt they’re 2 best SA fullbacks no? French coach: Yes zey are, but zey are very white you see and so a guy called Kirchner will play ze fullback and ze just run around zhim like that.
joke on news24
November 10th, 2009 at 12:25 am
#336 hehehe
True things are said in jest!
November 10th, 2009 at 3:14 am
#336 mbaxman93: more like,FC: no our zpies took care of the frans steyn problem, zhey flashed ze money in hiz face & he unwittingly zigned a 3 year deal with our ztruggling zide racing metro, ha ha ha ztupid fool!”
“no coach, you iz making huge miztake !zane kirchner iz S14 & recently a currie cup winning fullback he’z got ze pedigree”
November 10th, 2009 at 4:11 am
There are too many players been carried by the system. How can a player be selected when he cannot make his own provincial team? We have Old boys club, provincial pressure and quotas.
Quotas: Chili, Maku, Ruabenheimer, Gufro, Adams, Odwa,De Jongh, Rose, Jacobs.
Unlucky: Free sate and province, Any hooker, Mapoe, Juries, Mbysio, Bosch, Joe Pietersen, Ebersholm, David De Villiers, SAREL PRETORIUS,
Old Boys: Dinosaruas, Jannie Kannie, Muller(he nearly got the nod), Smittie(he needs a rest but should stay.
Lucky: Potgieter, Hargreaves, Bosman, Jacobs, Rose.
The Bulls were loosing till their stars came back, yet players were selected from their loosing squad above teams that kicked their ***.
Maybe this will send a message about how quotas affect levels of play.
What I am thinking, NOT!
November 10th, 2009 at 7:14 am
#339 KevinRack: how raubenheimer, who played for griquas in the currie cup is a “quota” and yet mpho mbiyozo, who as far as i know has played one 15man game against the b&i lions is not a “quota” is really illogical to me.
Heinie is a quota yet francois hougaard is accepted on the strength of his “potential”, not what he has done. Maybe Ludeke is smoking his socks playing heinie before francois.
November 10th, 2009 at 7:23 am
#317 rugbygenius:
Spot on
November 10th, 2009 at 7:35 am
#306 skopskiet:
The French at home are difficult to beat.
You won’t pull it off with the like of The Beast, Jacobs, Ndungane or Ashley Johnson, rest assured
November 10th, 2009 at 7:40 am
#336 mbaxman93:
Has Kirshner forgotten Simon Shaw already?
Dusautoir, Harinordoquy and Picamoles are all mean, dirty fast loossies, Kirshner is well advised to stay at home
November 10th, 2009 at 8:02 am
#340 Transformation:
Adams is a good scrumhalf, his greates virtue is of NOT being a token off the bench, he never let the Bulls down!
At the Test level however there are better though; FdP, Pienaar, Vermaak, and Michael Classens can always be called up like CJ, then Rory Cockott and the WP scrummi are far better too.
November 10th, 2009 at 10:57 am
#323 pvz.shark:Jy sal moet oor kies Ollie het nie vaskop gespeel nie