Brüssow Boks’ ‘true poison’
Marc Lievremont says Heinrich Brüssow will have to be nullified as he has added an extra dimension to the Bok side.
Brüssow has had a dream run in his first full year of Test rugby, but in Toulouse on Friday night he will continue his learning curve. It will be the first time he comes up against a physical French pack and opensider Thierry Dusautoir in a hostile atmosphere in the 37 000-capacity Stade Municipal.
The Free State opensider was set to be dropped for this Test before Pierre Spies’s tour-ending injury, but France coach Lievremont singled out the Bok No 6 ahead of any of his other team-mates as one to keep quiet if they are to claim their third successive win over the Boks.
‘They have in their armour a fatal weapon in Brüssow,’ he said. ‘He is true poison. It is the first time that the Boks have relied on such a player, a great performer on the ground.
‘Because of that, they are even more complete than ever before. And having seen their provincial games, it is a sector in which they excel. I have learned that at training they do a lot of fighting and judo. It is perhaps the key to their success in this factor.’
Brüssow was one player singled out, but the Tricolores seem obsessed with the Boks’ physicality, and Lievremont said ‘they play to hurt’.
‘With them, it’s a cultural thing. They play to do bad things. It is not provocation. Of course they have players like [Bakkies] Botha who are sometimes at the limit of the rules, but I find them more and more disciplined.
‘They don’t make any of those stupid mistakes they made in the past and which have perhaps cost them some victories.’
It is clear from their comments that the French will be looking to niggle in order to disrupt the Boks’ focus, and here Botha, Brüssow and co will have to maintain discipline.
November 11th, 2009 at 10:58 am
Fearful Dragons!
If they focus on nullifying Brussow, which I’m sure Dusautoir and harinorodquy will br doing, they will open up space for Schalk Burger to run havoc on the ground as well!
November 11th, 2009 at 10:59 am
Enough of this talking…I say bring on the “thugy”
November 11th, 2009 at 10:59 am
meant “thugby” eish!
November 11th, 2009 at 11:07 am
Of course he is!
That he was going to be dropped proves how much of a tool PdV can be.
Who is their right mind drops there best forward I mean really? It’s like dropping Vic…
November 11th, 2009 at 11:11 am
jeez could tfrench talk this up anymore …. please tell me that neither bryce lawrence or stu dickenson are reffing this…
November 11th, 2009 at 11:11 am
#4 WP_:
You really dont think PdV knows what he is doing dont you?
November 11th, 2009 at 11:12 am
So with us it is a cultural thing and we play to do bad things!!!!!!!
Never heard such nonsense.. 
With Burger next to Brussow they can cause havoc to the French. Now just hoping that Burger does not give away any penalties or gets 10 min in the bin. Same for Bakkies no going to the bin in this game. If any player goes to the the bin it will cost us huge with this team. All the players must be very disciplined.
November 11th, 2009 at 11:13 am
i wonder what jake makes out of all of this “boks have an extra dimension & are a totally complete side” cause it is in a way revealing of a certain limitation in his thinking, a “blind spot” if you like…hhmmm. Well thank goodness now we have a coach who is adaptable & dynamic in his rugby thinking.
Go bokke!
November 11th, 2009 at 11:13 am
I’m worried about Adi at 12.
Its not like we have Butch at 10 any more (not that Steyn is a bad defender) to cover the flyhalf/12 channel.
November 11th, 2009 at 11:14 am
Is it just me or is something being lost in translation. I can’t imagine the French are really putting it in these coarse terms.
November 11th, 2009 at 11:15 am
#8 Transformation:
I’m with you. I still wonder if Jake would have overlooked HB.
But then again, Adi at 12 worries me a bit. When last did he play 12??????
November 11th, 2009 at 11:19 am
It’s not just Brussow they need to worry about but Bismarck’s fetching abilities are just as potent.
November 11th, 2009 at 11:22 am
at training they do a lot of fighting and judo
What utter nonsense
the wobblies are the only ones we know of that fight in training
the mind games have seriously begun
November 11th, 2009 at 11:23 am
The french centre weighs 105 KG, Maa’ Nonu weighs 104 KG, I never saw Nonu run through Adi.
Defence is a collective effort and as long as the guys communicate effectively, they should be ok.
I hope Adi is not pre-occupied with this whole “Adi can’t defend” notion. His major strength is his agility and eye for the gap.
Go Adi you good thing.
November 11th, 2009 at 11:28 am
Judo?
I thought that went out together with TDK cassettes and fax machines.
November 11th, 2009 at 11:28 am
We’ll see how Brussow plays up North. A few years back Spies was given a harsh introduction to the conditions and was run over a few times in the Irish game,
November 11th, 2009 at 11:28 am
#10 Big Hit: I agree. “They play to do bad things” ???? WTF
#5 gunther: Worse – Wayne Barnes !!! God help us
November 11th, 2009 at 11:29 am
#5 gunther: I think it is the “Frenchman” Wayne Barnes!
November 11th, 2009 at 11:29 am
#6 Ruggaluvva: the Namibian, Sharks, Southern Kings & Wallaby supporter: please dont entertain him, he’s been on this racially charged mode for almost two weeks now, something has really upset this dude
November 11th, 2009 at 11:29 am
#13 Papoose: I know for a fact that they do sometimes get Judo instructors in to help them. Honest truth. The principles definitely works for players like Brussouw.
November 11th, 2009 at 11:29 am
I am worried!
November 11th, 2009 at 11:31 am
#14 Jozi: Agreed. You are even more sheltered from One on one defending at 12….
Adi is a smart player, and i rekcon he could create some space for Mossie.
Lets hope for the best.
November 11th, 2009 at 11:32 am
#21 Staal: The fear of the unfamiliar….
Ons gaan hulle gatte skop ou maat !
November 11th, 2009 at 11:35 am
#4 WP_:
Can’t you just give it a rest? We all know by now how you feel about PdV. Your really are getting boring now.
November 11th, 2009 at 11:40 am
I have learned that at training they do a lot of fighting and judo. It is perhaps the key to their success in this factor.’
sweet lord but this is becoming surreal…perhaps they caught bakkies doing his yoga warm ups…
November 11th, 2009 at 11:42 am
#8 Transformation: To all those exclusively Pvd fans, as well as those exclusively JW fans. Grow up! If you cannot recognise that both these coaches have done a great for their country and that both these coaches have taken the SA game to new levels, you are ignorant and short sighted.
Jake White took a side that got pasted at the 2003 World Cup by England and NZ. A side with no direction and pretty much the laughing stock of world rugby. He took this side brought back fundamentals such as consistancy, having pride for the jersey, good discipline, etc. Under his coaching SA won the 3N and the World Cup. When he started coaching SA we were number 6 in the world, when he left we were number 1. He had to know something about rugby in order to achieve this. But, like all people in the world (including you self righteous bitter people who love to shoot him down) he made mistakes, made stupid comments at press conferences, had some shocking defeats and bad years as coach. But, not being able to recognise that Jake White did more for SA rugby than six four coaches before him, shows your own arrogance and ignorance. The same things you accuse him of.
The same goes for those of you who love to shoot your mouth of about PdV. Yes, he recieved the number 1 side in the world. A very settled side, but under his reign as coach the boks have beaten NZ in NZ (twice!), have beaten NZ 3 times in one year, have have won the 3N, went on an undefeated EOYT last year, started as number 1 and is still number 1. He has achieved alot which JW did not. Not being able to recognise that this man has taken SA rugby forward and that he must know something of rugby makes you ignorant and arrogant. Yes, he says stupid things, makes contruversial selections (who doesn’t!), has had some shocking defeats, etc.
SA rugby is better and where we are now (ON TOP OF THE WORLD!) because of BOTH these people and NOT in spite of them! Grow up please and give these men the honour they deserve.
November 11th, 2009 at 11:42 am
#13 Papoose:
I know that Paul Treu introduced it as part of his training methods with the sevens side. With our players being smaller than the Pacific Islanders, it teaches them to attack specific weak points at a specific angle in order to bring down a man much bigger than yourself much more easily. Just look how it improved Gio Aplon’s tackling ability.
November 11th, 2009 at 11:44 am
#9 CenturionShark (aka LondonShark): Feel the same with Adi at inside centre. Think that is where we could be weak. Adi is a 13 and playing out of position too. Also has not been the same player he was last year. Probably from being injured in that shoulder.
Also a bit worried with Zane at the back. Never played well in the E. Boks or the last test against the Lions. Now though he will be playing with much better players and have a lot of the Bulls players there that he is used to playing with. So maybe he will be fine.
November 11th, 2009 at 11:45 am
#17 Cheetha Champs:
#18 zimshark:
thats a worry …. he is bit of a home town ref and it doesnt get much more home town than 37,000 frenchman hopped up on cheap alchohol and gitanes…
November 11th, 2009 at 11:57 am
#17 Cheetha Champs: Wayne Barnes the ref? Not good news. Boks must just give no penalties away. Have to be very disciplined.
November 11th, 2009 at 12:19 pm
Brussouw has bested “Tackles” McCaw and George “Smeeth” already this year.
I’m banking on him making it 3 out of 3 here.
November 11th, 2009 at 12:26 pm
Someone needs to tell the selectors this obvious fact!!!
November 11th, 2009 at 12:39 pm
If Brussouw was to be dropped for this test, than who was going to replace him. Assume it was going to be Spies at 8, Burgher at 7 [to repalce Smith] so who was going to 6?
November 11th, 2009 at 12:48 pm
#20 Cheetha Champs: was referring to the fighting
who besides the wobblies do u know of were they’re fights during trainin?
November 11th, 2009 at 12:49 pm
#33 dj: kanko would have been 7 and schalk 6
November 11th, 2009 at 12:52 pm
#26 fsjakes:
if jake (thank you for everything you did) was out there in the rugby wilderness enjoying his millions & not constantly putting his boot in on everything to do with the springboks, then i would certainly not make comparisons between his thinking & that of ROBBIE DEANS & MARK LIEVREMONT and others.
this year robbie deans said
“Before the ban Burger was a mainstay of the loose trio, but Brüssow has excelled in his absence, making telling contributions to the Springboks’ recent success. He is yet to be outclassed, despite having played against two of the world’s elite opensiders in New Zeland’s Richie McCaw and Australia’s George Smith.
Australia coach Robbie Deans told keo.co.za on Thursday that Brüssow added a dimension to the Springboks that they hadn’t had before, referring to his potency at the breakdown, and the trio certainly has a more balance looked about it with the Free Stater in the mix.
and now mark lievremont says this
“Marc Lievremont says Heinrich Brüssow will have to be nullified as he has added an extra dimension to the Bok side.
‘They have in their armour a fatal weapon in Brüssow,’ he said. ‘He is true poison. It is the first time that the Boks have relied on such a player, a great performer on the ground.
‘Because of that, they are even more complete than ever before. And having seen their provincial games, it is a sector in which they excel. I have learned that at training they do a lot of fighting and judo. It is perhaps the key to their success in this factor
david pocock who with george smith nullified brussow in brisbane had this to say
David Pocock believes Heinrich Brussow should start in the Springbok No 6 jersey when Schalk Burger returns from suspension.
‘I personally think that when Brussow’s been on the field, he’s added another dimension to their game,’ Pocock told keo.co_za. ‘Having said that, Schalk has to be in a Springbok side [when he returns].’
Pocock said the pair would form an intimidating combination on the sides of the scrum, but was also complimentary of Juan Smith’s understated role in the team.
‘They are very different players: Schalk is a big ball-carrier, he’s a massive human being and he crashes into those rucks. I think Brussow has a body-shape that allows him to be a lot more accurate at the breakdown, as he’s more like George [Smith] and Phil [Waugh] – shorter and well built. Brussow gets around – he gets to a lot of breakdowns and is very busy.
‘I think it would be a pretty lethal combination,’ continued Pocock. ‘But then again I think Juan Smith offers you that lineout option. It’s pretty good to have that selection problem, having those three guys fighting for two spots in future.’
what has jake said in the same year?
“You don’t pick rugby teams based only on stats,’ White told The Sunday Times. ‘The tackle-count stats are only relevant if the opposing teams are making a similar number of tackles. Brüssow made 25 tackles against the Bulls, out of 237 tackles by the Cheetahs, which is massive. But look at the amount of defending his team was forced to do.
‘Tackles missed is a more vital stat, and if the difference is marginal, then what’s the big deal? The reality is that Schalk Burger can tackle and he has made 25 tackles in a Test before, so why are we suddenly concerned he won’t do it again?’
At the breakdown, the Cheetahs flank had forced 24 turnovers compared to Burger’s three, while the former had hit 80 rucks compared to Burger’s 52. Brüssow has conceded nine turnovers and 18 handling errors, compared to 15 and 22 respectively from Burger.
In a likely Bok loose-trio of Burger, Juan Smith and Pierre Spies the Boks would then have five lineout options – an area that is expected to be crucial in the Lions series – and here Burger edges the shorter Brüssow.
Burger has won eight set-pieces compared to Brüssow’s one and has also fielded four kick-offs to one. Burger has passed 102 times to Brüssow’s 65, as well as having more offloads – nine to seven.
These statistics for the Super 14 may point to a case for starting Brüssow against the Lions, but White is amazed this is even being contemplated.
‘Schalk is the best rugby player I’ve ever coached,’ he said. ‘The reason for that is simple — he’s the difference between winning and losing Test matches. Any guy who has that ability — a Jonah Lomu or a Jonny Wilkinson — has to be in your side.
‘That kind of player, who when he plays ensures the team is vastly better than when he doesn’t play, is special. Burger is that guy. He is the kind of player coaches can’t do without,’ said the former Bok coach.
‘Why would you want to drop a 1.93m, 49-Test veteran who’s won a junior and senior World Cup and is only 26, for a player with one Test cap in the most important series in the last decade?
‘Is dropping a player going to change the team or improve the team? If it’s the former, then why do it? If the answer is the latter, then it’s the right move.
‘Can we honestly say that at Test level dropping Schalk Burger will improve the team?’”
so please meneer, check yourself & calm down, this is rugby debate, i’m discussing rugby philosophy here not achievements. if you have a contribution to make try & formulate one. otherwise log off!
November 11th, 2009 at 12:54 pm
#26 fsjakes: this is the most impartial and correct view when comparing JW and PdV
wish more people would wake up to this view
sadly we saffas are too polarized by race and this is where alot of the posers really base they’re “Passion” on
lets move on and nt give them the airtime
November 11th, 2009 at 12:54 pm
#34 Papoose:
Rugby is a physical sport. If you dont fight during training, you are not doing it right !!!
November 11th, 2009 at 12:55 pm
#35 Cheetahboytjie:
I thought it would have been Kanko at 8 and Spies at 7 with Schalk 6. Although I can’t remember where I got it from.
November 11th, 2009 at 12:56 pm
#26 fsjakes: Well said. Hindsight is a beautiful thing. Selections get made based on team dynamics, game plans and opposition.Just because bloggers agree/disagree on team selection it should not be treated as the gospel. So a little perspective once in a while has never harmed anyone.
November 11th, 2009 at 12:57 pm
The question has to be asked WHY DROP HENRICH for the French test ? ? He is currently on top form ? Is PDivvy playing horses for courses , being experimental ? Surely on playing stats Schalk would be dropped to the bench than Brussow – or is this all mere speculation ?
November 11th, 2009 at 1:01 pm
#33 dj: The 3 loosies that stayed behind were Spies, Kanko and Burger
November 11th, 2009 at 1:05 pm
#39 David:
Tank Lanning?
November 11th, 2009 at 1:07 pm
#36 Transformation: as fsjakes said
both have made some very stupid comments
that shouldnt take away the reverence for the fat that they both moved us fwd
END OF STORY
November 11th, 2009 at 1:08 pm
#36 Transformation: Thatha Transie, babhide tyhopho ngolwimi lwakubo!!!!!
November 11th, 2009 at 1:13 pm
fact not fat
November 11th, 2009 at 1:22 pm
#43 nama1:
I don’t think so.
#41 stew:
They’d probably decided to give Kanko some game time at 8, which is why I seem to remember Spies playing at 7. It would have made sense to balance Kankos more open style with 2 big flanks.
November 11th, 2009 at 1:24 pm
#44 Papoose: asking questions on jake’s current rugby thinking is in no way meant detract from his past achievements. If mallet were to comment on the bok loose trio now, his own rugby thinking would have to be put to the test, nothing to do with the 17 consecutive tests he won as springbok coach!
We need to begin to detach sentiment from genuine rugby discussions, now THAT will be moving on!
November 11th, 2009 at 1:29 pm
#26 fsjakes: Excellent post!
#36 Transformation: You are glossing over the fact that PDV has expressed similiar sentiments regarding Schalk, professing 60% of his game plan to be build around him. And that Brussow was set to be dropped for the France test.
Jake White was/is a good coach, he has the accolades to back up that statement.
PDV is a good coach, he has the accolades to back up that statement.
I know that a large part of your anti-Jake sentiments stems from the unwillingness of a number of bloggers to recognise PDV as such. Dont let your their narrow-minded, myopic sentiments cloud yours.
November 11th, 2009 at 1:36 pm
#4 WP_: Heluim Snor really is a complete bufoon.
He is still riding on past talent and squad identification as when he makes his very own selections he tends to show how little he really knows about rugby.
Shocking stuff. We ought to win the RWC but after that, when the core leaves Helium will be left exposed and just does not have the substance to identify and coach new talent.
Hows this chop, wanting to leave Heinrich out?
Persisting with Ralepelle
Jannie dup
Rautenbach
Johnson
Ndungane
Earl Rose
Throwing the last Lions test away
When he gets it wrong against the Tigers, what does he do, chooses the players that we all KNEW should be there.
A rocket scientist old Snorrie is not.
November 11th, 2009 at 1:37 pm
Jake selected a team from scratch and coached us to greatness.
Helium got a great team and looks good.
November 11th, 2009 at 1:40 pm
#26 fsjakes: The only ignorant one here is you if you think that Heliums success is due to his coaching and not due to the fact that he got a great team that was about to peak and play really well.
Please wake up.
November 11th, 2009 at 1:41 pm
#51 dr dre: yaaaaaaaaaaawn
November 11th, 2009 at 1:48 pm
#51 dr dre:
Below is the 2003 WC squad. See how many Jake inherited rather than built from scratch. JdeV had to withdraw at the last moment due to a shoulder injury.
I think you’ll find that the bulk of Jakes side that he started with, were already Boks.
Name Club Position
De Wet Barry Western Province Centre
Richard Bands Northern Tranvaal Prop
Christo Bezuidenhoudt Northern Tranvaal Prop
Selborne Boome Western Province Lock
Bakkies Botha Northern Transvaal Lock
Schalk Burger Western Province Flanker
Danie Coetzee Free State Hooker
Thinus Delport Falcons Fullback
Neil de Kock Western Province Scrumhalf
Jaque Fourie Transvaal Centre
Werner Greeff Western Province Fullback
Derick Hougaard Northern Transvaal Flyhalf
Louis Koen Transvaal Flyhalf
Corne Krige (c) Western Province Flanker
Ricardo Loubscher Natal Sharks Fullback
Victor Matfield Transvaal Lock
Jorrie Muller Transvaal Centre
Breyton Paulse Western Province Wing
Faan Rautenbach Western Province Prop
Danie Rossouw Northern Transvaal Flanker
Dale Santon SWD Eagles Prop
Hendro Scholtz Free State Flanker
Lawrence Sephaka Transvaal Prop
John Smit Natal Sharks Hooker
Juan Smith Free State Cheetahs Number 8
Stefan Terblanche Sharks Wing
Joe van Niekerk Transvaal Flanker
Joost vanderWesthuizen Northern Transvaal Scrumhalf
Jaco vanderWesthuyzen Northern Bulls Fullback
Ashwin Willemse Transvaal Wing
November 11th, 2009 at 1:49 pm
#53 Valkyrie: go take a nap if your yawning ..
Must be exhausting being a C**t
November 11th, 2009 at 1:52 pm
#54 David: were they all boks playing in the current team? NO
Was it a successful bok side / players he took over. NO
All you have listed is a mix and match list of bok current and bok not so current players.
Different to identifying the right ones and moulding then into success at intl level.
Sorry old sport.
November 11th, 2009 at 1:53 pm
#49 Taahirah: please quote for me where pdv said he was going to drop heinrich for the french test? Please direct me.
“glossing over” in my initial post i said “thank you for having a current coach who is adaptable & dynamic in his rugby thinking” meaning even when he had thought of something he is not hard-headed & arrogant to a point where he won’t see the error of his initial judgement or the exciting possibilty of the alternative!
Jake before the tri-nations this year was still talking down Heinrich, asking questions whether brussow will ever win irb player of the year like schalk did & pointing out that he is not a lineout option, when in the team we have 4 superb lineout options already!
November 11th, 2009 at 1:53 pm
#55 dr dre: lol!
November 11th, 2009 at 1:54 pm
#54 David:
In fact the only two missing that he included are Butch James and Marius Joubert.
November 11th, 2009 at 1:56 pm
#8 Transformation: Jake still defends his decision. Must be very stubborn.
Although can’t understand de Villiers insistance not to select Brussouw either. Just think had Burger not been suspended we wouldnt have one thr tri nations and if Spies hadnt got injured we wouldnt be getting our first victory in france in ages.
Yes Brussouw does make that much of a dfifference to the team…
November 11th, 2009 at 1:59 pm
#54 David: Will make it easy for him, only Habana, JPP and Francois Steyn were identified by Jake White. FDP was already rooming with Geo Cronje during Kaamp Staaldraad
November 11th, 2009 at 2:00 pm
#56 dr dre:
The point is that Jake took the young players that Strauli had already identified and blooded in his WC 2003 squad and used them as the basis of his own squad. He didn’t exactly pick these guys out of nowhere, their talent had already been recognised.
Remember Stauli had just over a year to create a WC squad and team when he took over from Viljoen in 2002.
November 11th, 2009 at 2:00 pm
#59 David: hahaha
good 1
November 11th, 2009 at 2:05 pm
Brussow is a legend. How PdV and co. thought they could not have him for this game was pure madness.
November 11th, 2009 at 2:06 pm
#58 Valkyrie: was not meant personally as I dont know you ..
hehe.
November 11th, 2009 at 2:07 pm
#64 Ratel Brussow (MSIUR): Sweet mother of pearl….we actually agree on something!!!!
November 11th, 2009 at 2:10 pm
#56 dr dre:
Here is the side that lost to NZ in 2003. The pack and bench has an awfully familiar look to it, doesn’t it?
November 11th, 2009 at 2:11 pm
Springboks
15 Jaco van der Westhuizen, 14 Ashwin Willemse, 13 Jorrie Muller, 12 De Wet Barry, 11 Thinus Delport, 10 Derick Hougaard, 9 Joost van der Westhuizen; 8 Juan Smith, 7 Danie Rossouw, 6 Corné Krige (captain), 5 Victor Matfield, 4 Bakkies Botha, 3 Faan Rautenbach, 2 John Smit, 1 Christo Bezuidenhout. Replacements: 16 Danie Coetzee, 17 Richard Bands, 18 Selborne Boome, 19 Schalk Burger, 20 Neil de Kock, 21 Louis Koen, 22 Jaque Fourie.
November 11th, 2009 at 2:13 pm
Guys…
I know we all defend what we believe in and all have a point of view and that these points of view are based on a myriad of different things namely:
Experiences
What you were told
Media
Growing up
Race
And many other factors.
Thing is, if we lived in a colourless and bland world where most of our systems ran in neutral and things were as they seemed, would you really pronounce Snor to be an excellent rugby coach or would you, without emotion or other systems blinding you call it as you see it?
November 11th, 2009 at 2:14 pm
#14 Jozi: Agreed, he is pure class. I prefer him at 13 though and would tell Jacque Fourie the 15 jersey is his until the world cup
November 11th, 2009 at 2:17 pm
#67 David: I do see the point you make!
Jake instilled in those players the will to win, ethos, spirit, playing a clean game, fitness, and they believed in each other and him.
A winning culture was bred and its this culture we see peaking today.
My point is simple really.
PDV has thankfully kept largely to this recipe and we are still at the top. Imagine if he tried to change things and bring his own ideas and players into the system
Catastrophe.
November 11th, 2009 at 2:17 pm
#36 Transformation: Transformation, I have read hundreds of your posts and many arguments you ave had with many a blogger. I love it that you are accusing me of not entering into a rugby debate and only dicussing achievements.
First of all, my post was not just directed at you (although, you are one of the people who love to shoot down JW more than alot of other people), but to everyone who loves to shoot down both these coaches. Don’t ask me to calm down, you are the one who went a frantic debate and tried to bring across your point (using bold print and all).
Sescond, you are accusing me of of not being able to formulate a rugby argument. I just stated that both these coaches have achieved much and that SA rugby is better because of them and not inspite of them. Especially if you look at their achievements. How can that not be a logical rugby arguement? You start your arguement with: “if jake (thank you for everything you did) was out there in the rugby wilderness enjoying his millions & not constantly putting his boot in on everything to do with the springboks, then i would certainly not make comparisons between his thinking & that of ROBBIE DEANS & MARK LIEVREMONT and others.” Is that rugby philosophy or your own personal opinion?
Thirdly, you are generally the first person to jump on someones back if they make a comment that you regard as racist (wether they inetnd it or not). Is that rugby philosophy?
I did not attck you, PdV or JW. I simply said that both these coaches deserve their rightful place in SA rugby. That maybe we should stop bickering about who is better and who is not. Stop thinking across racial lines (which frankly, you seem to do just as much as aany other). With a name such as “TRANSFORMATION”, I would have thought that you of all people would be able to understand my very logical arguement.
November 11th, 2009 at 2:18 pm
#60 Bok fan:
How many bloggers on this site had HB in their starting line-up before the first Lions test? I can’t think of too many apart from G10 and Skoppie. They were lambasted here for even suggesting that Schalk should make way for HB. Now everybody is talking as if they would have gone the same route and that it was only PdV who was too stupid to see that it was the right move back then.
Have you ever think back and wonder what the outcry would have been if PdV dropped SB for the first test against the B & I Lions?
November 11th, 2009 at 2:20 pm
#26 fsjakes: Good points well said.
Dont always agree with them but they have both done great jobs as SA coaches
November 11th, 2009 at 2:21 pm
#72 fsjakes: Transformation allows his “life environment” and experiences to guide him in his thought processes.
You cant blame him, we all do it. It is difficult to think logically and without influence.
His ame should say why he disses Jake.
November 11th, 2009 at 2:22 pm
#73 nama1: Hey I was certainly saying that Heinrich must start. It was obvious, maybe not to the slow witted, but to everyone else Heinrich was an obvious choice. Just as Morne was too.
November 11th, 2009 at 2:24 pm
#52 dr dre: How can you say that? PdV and JW both coached the SA under 21 side before moving on to the senior. Both won the under 21 Wold Cups, both also lost out in the finals of the under 21 Wold Cups. Was PdV success at junior level also because of Jake White leaving behind a team? No!
Yes, PdV did recieve a settled and successful team. I’m not argueing against it. But, Jake White never won in NZ. He never went unbeaten against NZ in a season. He never went on an unbeaten tour of Europe. PdV has done these things. Did Jake White’s reign as coach helped in PdV success, ofcourse it did! Is PdV success only due to JW, never!
November 11th, 2009 at 2:27 pm
#71 dr dre:
I suppose I’m just trying to balance out the idea that Jake started from scratch, when in fact he already inherited the core of an extremely strong pack to build on. For me, his weakness was in his approach to the backs, who he seemed to regard purely as a defensive addition to the forwards.
That, I believe, is the one area that PdeV identified as needing changing, with his playing the situation philosophy.
What he underestimated was the mindset that had already been bred into the players.
November 11th, 2009 at 2:29 pm
#75 dr dre: Of the starting 15 that played in the WC final, only 4 made their debuts under JW. Of the team starting on friday 4 have made their debuts under PdV.
November 11th, 2009 at 2:32 pm
#71 dr dre: You are a serious **** ol’ chap, there are no Jake White players, there are no PDV players, these are South African young men, playing for their country.
Jake didnt discover these players why should PDV discover players?
” Thing is, if we lived in a colourless and bland world where most of our systems ran in neutral and things were as they seemed, would you really pronounce Snor to be an excellent rugby coach or would you, without emotion or other systems blinding you call it as you see it?”"
The answer is yes, the only reason you think it would be no, it is because of who you are not what the truth is.
November 11th, 2009 at 2:33 pm
For me i would still want Boks to have a ‘real ‘ tighthead….cant accomodate Beast and Smit…both pap snoek.
Brussow a non brainer…Steggmann must get in as back up.
Adi and WO ….jury out…perhaps even F Steyn at 12 vs Frogs….damn he was playing well at 12 in super 14 before ruan got injured.
MS at 10 a no brainer.
Adi may be the surprise packet Fri….Kanko as well….
November 11th, 2009 at 2:36 pm
PDV VS JW….no brainer…
PDV prepared to change…admit mistakes and take action….
JW…stubborn…conceited…and bullied LW …plonker….Hope his W W Ays never reach the Stormers…
November 11th, 2009 at 2:37 pm
The Boks potentially are going to have a very difficult time, because the french are talking themselves into war, one which i think the Boks can take to another level, but if they do so, will be sent from the field.
Its a real problem, especially if the ref lets them get away with stuff. Our coaches should have a chat to the ref pre-game, they will have to maintain their disciple but at the same time meet fire with fire.
November 11th, 2009 at 2:38 pm
#72 fsjakes: without putting my foot in, only Skoppies doesn’t regard what Jake White did as good/great for our rugby. The rest of us all agree he was the right man at the time and did a lot of great things.
November 11th, 2009 at 2:38 pm
#52 dr dre: Jake White did set the platform anybody who cant see this is blind or only started watching rugby this year – right on Dr Dre
November 11th, 2009 at 2:39 pm
#81 grant10: Think Kanko will struggle on the NH fields, but would be happy for him to surprise me.
One of the best things JW did was treat LW the way he was meant to.
November 11th, 2009 at 2:40 pm
this jake v pdv argument is sooooo tired…it’s been going on for almost 2 years now it’s bordering on obsessive…that’s all i have to say about that.
November 11th, 2009 at 2:40 pm
#73 nama1: and me
, remember I called people “Schalkanators”
November 11th, 2009 at 2:41 pm
Actually this entire pre-game talk appears to be read from some sort of contrived script, which i believe is totally unfair and is being used to single the Boks out – which not only creates a false impression in the minds of the public but the ref too – in affect the french are trying to beat the boks with propaganda before even taking to the field.
The french are one of the dirtiest sides in history and have absolutely no room to talk. Their hooker, scazevski, is even more of a hothead then bismarck and is constantly involved off the ball in his local league.
I hope the Boks absolutely bash em.
November 11th, 2009 at 2:43 pm
#78 David: Got to disagree with you on the back situation … The Boks have never looked as potent in the backline as they did during the WC – granted JW maybe forward orintated but he brought in Eddie Jones – the Boks to this day havent been as potent in the backs as they were in that WC …. differences maybe FSteyn at 12 , Butch and Eddie Jones
November 11th, 2009 at 2:43 pm
#77 fsjakes: it’s difficult to debate these things with ignorant fools like dr dre.i understand what you are trying to say,that jake as well as pdv brought something special to the rugby table and i totally agree with you.it’s very difficult,and it should not be,for bloggers here to give credit to both pdv and jake.viva jake!viva pdv!
November 11th, 2009 at 2:44 pm
#89 cab: Got to agree with you there…it seems there is a massive underlying agenda to paint the boks as dirty and try to influence the ref (who is he by the way). The French are well known as dirty players.
November 11th, 2009 at 2:44 pm
The Boks also have the skill to cut through this french side, which has been beaten by the australians and new zealanders – which the boks have beaten easily when in top form.
So the French are quite beatable if the Boks play to their form.
November 11th, 2009 at 2:44 pm
#80 XhosaKid: You are defending on the basis of colour. I cannot take that away from you and its fair enough.
Stick to your guns and go for it !! Clouded judgement or not, who am I to say.
What I will say is that PDV is out of his depth.
Put that in yer old pipe and smoke it bru.
November 11th, 2009 at 2:45 pm
#57 Transformation: No, he never uttered it outright. But if you were in a court of law the probative value of the evidence at hand (Schalk making up 60% of his game plan, Brussow flying out with the mid-week team)would be enough to safely assume that Heinrich would not have started. Again. That does not make him a bad coach.
Jake White believes in bulky loose forwards. It has brought him a great deal of success. Cant imagine any coach in the world saying no to a Tri-Nations title, a World Cup, 2 IRB coach of the year awards and a number 5 to number 1 ranking in a 4 year span.
Both are entitled to their respective opinions. Ultimately only results matter. Jake delivered results. PDV is delivering results.
November 11th, 2009 at 2:45 pm
#91 Valkyrie: Go take a nap son, your being one of those female organs again.
November 11th, 2009 at 2:47 pm
#90 stew: Some of the tries the Boks have scored this year (Fourie, Habana coming straight through the backline) have been outstanding. I recall few tries like that under JW. Our backline was sharp at the RWC, but they have been pretty potent this year.
November 11th, 2009 at 2:48 pm
#89 cab: Have to agree.
Many SA players plying their trades in the French leagues have expressed shock at the level of `off the ball` and dirty play culture that exists among the frog legs players.
November 11th, 2009 at 2:48 pm
#90 stew: You must also take in account the opposition that they were facing during the WC07. They did not exactly set the field alight with they were up against Fidji and Tonga.
November 11th, 2009 at 2:49 pm
#89 cab:
Fark that. I say Unleash the Dogs of War !
The messier and more manic-induced bodily mayhem causing piles of mashed-flesh, the better.
Toulouse will be a seething cesspit of spewing venom blended with a crazy cocktail of Gaulish scizophrenic insanity.
vs Bakkies.
Viva la France. Ama Bokke Bokke !
November 11th, 2009 at 2:49 pm
#72 fsjakes: you know what, never mind.
You say your posr wasn’t directed @ me yet my nick was right there @ the beginning of your post tagged…
it’s not my rugby thinking i asked you to interogate but jake’s vs that of lievremont, deans, pocock & everyone else who thinks the springbok has “an extra dimension” now if you seem not to be able to comprehend written word.
Where are the racial lines when i’m making a comparison between statements by coaches & players of different countries? Accusing me of playing “the race card” won’t win you points chap or discredit what i’m saying, that little trick is tired…
What you are asking me & others to do is basically not to question current anc policy or reasoning because they freed me & many others from bondage. Jake won the world cup, he solidified the team etc etc….but someone questioning his “current” rugby thinking is in no way
Taking away from the glory he brought to this country…the same as people are now questionin whether pdv intended to drop heinrich…
If you still can’t comprehend what i m saying just scroll past my posts…
November 11th, 2009 at 2:49 pm
when pdv wins in france and ireland he will yet again right one of jakes wrongs.go pdv,the supreme master.!
November 11th, 2009 at 2:50 pm
This french propaganda is swaying what was always a close game with spies, jdv and steyn out into an even closer contest.
i suppose there is little point complaining, but one wonders what would happen if the SA players and coaches provided quote after quote labeeling the french game dirty, nasty and so on.
The Boks beat the no 2 and 3 teams in the world without any dirty play whatsoever.
November 11th, 2009 at 2:51 pm
French have been spoiling for a fight all week….they using up all there energy beating there chests…screw them….
Bring it on Frogs…
November 11th, 2009 at 2:51 pm
Guys, anyone know who the ref is on Friday?
November 11th, 2009 at 2:52 pm
#100 WakaNathan:
lol, there is no way the ref will tolerate bakkies hitting anyone, he will be sent off and sentenced to weeks off from the game, you know it and i know it.
November 11th, 2009 at 2:53 pm
#94 dr dre: I recall that prior to the 3Nations you were concerned about Sa playing without structure. You also mentioned during that time that you will judge PdV on the team’s performance during the Trinations. I see that your opinion of the coach is still the same despite SA winning the Cup. Why is that?
November 11th, 2009 at 2:53 pm
#105 Mutant: Wayne Barnes
November 11th, 2009 at 2:54 pm
#103 cab: don’t take people too seriously that used to believe that a rugby players eyes should be part of a seafood platter!
November 11th, 2009 at 2:54 pm
#108 Ratel Brussow (MSIUR): Oh, that guy who blew the French into the RWC semis. Awesome.
November 11th, 2009 at 2:54 pm
#104 grant10: By the way, looks like I’m not the only one that thinks you are a rugby imbecile. Check the other thread.
November 11th, 2009 at 2:55 pm
#105 Mutant:
nope – Barnesey?
November 11th, 2009 at 2:56 pm
#110 Mutant: Are you from NZ. The All Blacks choked remember. Drop the goal, drop the goal!!
November 11th, 2009 at 2:56 pm
#109 Valkyrie:
i dont take the french seriously at all, its the ref i’m worried about.
November 11th, 2009 at 2:57 pm
French will be down to 13 men in the first few minutes if they carry on like mad Cockerills!!
Good heavens they preparing for a War!
Boks must not allow themselves to be dragged into the kak….Schalk…Bissy…Bakkies…take note….
Provacation…it be coming !!
November 11th, 2009 at 2:58 pm
#107 John1976: five out of six is too painful for him.he can’t utter those magic ‘five out of six’ words.laager mentality is extremely hard to over-come but don’t give up on him,he will see the light soon enough!
November 11th, 2009 at 2:58 pm
#113 Ratel Brussow (MSIUR): Drop the cup, drop the cup… True, but there was one forward pass try.
November 11th, 2009 at 2:59 pm
#111 Ratel Brussow (MSIUR): You a real snotkop….Go work on your Sharks team scrum!
November 11th, 2009 at 3:01 pm
#115 grant10:
no, what i’m worried about is that the french stuff will be tolerated as medicine for the ‘big brutish bullies’, while the first hint of retaliation will be punished.
Its going to be very difficult for the Boks to match the french intensity and not be provoked. if its a free-for-all then the ref must punish consistently.
November 11th, 2009 at 3:02 pm
#82 grant10:
mate when did jake “bully” luke….
I do remember luke calling jake white a disgrace to sa rugby (that was before jake was forced to pick him) try not fall for all of the propoganda all of the time….
by the way the boks have arrived in toulouse… smitty ha a good flight ….. apparently the boys were very sharp at practice on monday…
November 11th, 2009 at 3:03 pm
#117 Mutant: Still should have been able to win it from there. They also played kak, to blame it on 1 reffing decision is not fair.
November 11th, 2009 at 3:03 pm
#94 dr dre: why dont you try next door, I’m sure the manne at rugby talk dot co.za will appreciate your contributions, in fact, I bet you will feel right at home!!
Why do you say Ol’ chap?
November 11th, 2009 at 3:03 pm
#119 cab: This is also where you expect the 90 caps of your captain and other senior statesmen to come to the fore…will be a big test for them. Hopefully our experience will keep us calm. I think Bakdog will be fine. Just a bit worried about Brussow and Bissie.
November 11th, 2009 at 3:04 pm
#116 Valkyrie:Maybe he has inside knowledge as to the workings of the SA squad, and perhaps know a “open secret” or 2. Who knows?. Therefore he cannot give any credit to the coach.
November 11th, 2009 at 3:04 pm
#106 cab:
Only if there’s any justice(4) in this World, which I seriously doubt.
#108 Ratel Brussow (MSIUR):
So, God, you DID answer my prayers.
Amen to that !
November 11th, 2009 at 3:08 pm
76 Ratel Brussow (MSIUR)
88 XhosaKid
OK yes, you guys also punted him. Sorry.
Next we’ll see everybody has called for his inclusion much like everybody fought against apartheid.
November 11th, 2009 at 3:09 pm
#115 grant10: it will be too difficult for bakkies to ignore because he is naturally a person that carries around hatred in bucket loads just look at the the hatred and revenge(admitted by him) he carried around for the freestaters all these years after that final loss a couple of years ago and not to mention his hatred for province and that brain-explosion he had in the first minute of the semi-final at newlands.i can seriously see a straight red on friday and us down to 14men for a majority of the game.
November 11th, 2009 at 3:10 pm
#125 WakaNathan:
Still nothing for me?
November 11th, 2009 at 3:10 pm
Actually perhaps the Boks should be given clear instructions, since i sence there’s not much emphasis being placed on the rugby – if the french want to fight, give them one.
put cj and rossouw into the starting line=up, in the fisticuffs stakes i reckon danie will handle at least 3 frogs. i’m not sure about kanko tho.
November 11th, 2009 at 3:10 pm
#119 cab: ja…i see what you mean….ref must be tough …hence i see a few early yellows…
November 11th, 2009 at 3:11 pm
#127 Valkyrie:
You are a twat but I have to agree.
When Bakkies isn’t donnering anyone, he’s standing around doing nothing.
November 11th, 2009 at 3:12 pm
#120 gunther: thanks for the update….LW was bullied by not being chosen in 2006….but lets leave it….JW not my cup of tea….never will be…so no mind changing debates gonna happen here…
November 11th, 2009 at 3:12 pm
No Province players, no victory.
Easy.
November 11th, 2009 at 3:13 pm
What time is this game.
November 11th, 2009 at 3:13 pm
#129 cab: I’ll be worried about Danie, did not handle the headbutt by BoD to well.
November 11th, 2009 at 3:14 pm
#125 WakaNathan:
Come on. You can address a post to me.
I am so cool.
November 11th, 2009 at 3:15 pm
#129 cab: Ask Todd Clever how well Kanko punches
November 11th, 2009 at 3:15 pm
but who knows, perhaps the french like a good scrap, they better be prepared tho cos they might just bite off more than they can chew, i remember the last time they tried it, mark andrws and ruben kruger f’cked up their entire side, many a bloodcurdling french scream was heard that night when a bunch of duffers tried to rough up the widweek side.
November 11th, 2009 at 3:15 pm
#133 Dawn: What did Schalk sign for the Lions now? And Bryan torn up his contract already? Game kicks off at 21:45 SA time
November 11th, 2009 at 3:15 pm
#137 Sharksgirl:
November 11th, 2009 at 3:16 pm
#129 cab:
Danie is old.
He can’t handle his medication, never mind frogs.
November 11th, 2009 at 3:16 pm
#130 grant10: never fear Barnsey has everything under control
project mayhem
November 11th, 2009 at 3:17 pm
sorry keith andrews, not mark andrews, the wp hooker was a soutie with a great right hand and a terrible temper.
November 11th, 2009 at 3:17 pm
#131 Dawn: why so nasty?… and by the way who are you and do i know you?are you one of those harrington street girls?
November 11th, 2009 at 3:17 pm
#139 Mutant:
Wouldn’t be surprised!
What did Tiaan do wrong? and Joe Petersen?
November 11th, 2009 at 3:18 pm
#141 Dawn:
November 11th, 2009 at 3:18 pm
#127 Valkyrie: Well i just hope J Smit uses his leadership skills to calm the camp down….it really is obvious the French are spolinng for a fight ….in fact i cant remember a Test where so much war talk has been forthcoming.
As J Smit is in the team for his leadership…this is where he needs to lay down the law to his team.
November 11th, 2009 at 3:18 pm
#144 Valkyrie:
Maybe. What’s it to you.
You are nasty.
And my sinus is paining.
November 11th, 2009 at 3:20 pm
is Dalton still in jail or can we get him of out of retirement for this one? holy ****, that would be carnage.
November 11th, 2009 at 3:20 pm
#147 grant10:
I think the Keolings invented the war talk.
Everyone wearing poppies there. Peace has broken out all over Europe.
November 11th, 2009 at 3:20 pm
#138 cab: LOL
November 11th, 2009 at 3:21 pm
#145 Dawn: They were born white. Although I suppose that’s more their parents doing.
November 11th, 2009 at 3:21 pm
#148 Dawn:
November 11th, 2009 at 3:22 pm
#149 cab:
Can’t believe our rugby players go around donnering women.
I mean Percy, for crying in a bucket.
November 11th, 2009 at 3:23 pm
#148 Dawn: shame
November 11th, 2009 at 3:24 pm
#150 Dawn: I am all for a tough game of rugby….but the Frogs been upping the ante all week long….
Bloody okes eat frog legs….Barbarians i tell you!!
November 11th, 2009 at 3:24 pm
#132 grant10:
lol he “bullied” him by not picking him…. thats like $$saying my bank manager bullies me because he won’t give e a bond for a 20 million rand house…
November 11th, 2009 at 3:25 pm
#154 Dawn:
yeah thats pisspoor, too much ego, not used to mental sparring from an antagonist.
November 11th, 2009 at 3:25 pm
#147 grant10: I think it’s just the translation, they said the similar things before Twickenham and prepared for a huge forward battle, but we moved it wide and took them by surprise. Perhaps the Boks ought to try that.
November 11th, 2009 at 3:25 pm
#154 Dawn: Gotta teach them somehow…
November 11th, 2009 at 3:26 pm
#159 Big Hit:
thats actually what i was thinking, i reckon the boks can take them in the skill stakes too, esp with kanko, but seems like the french are hellbent on some sort of barney.
November 11th, 2009 at 3:28 pm
#156 grant10:
actually frogs legs are delicious…next time you ae in durban go to ile maurice the are delicious there…the french actually hardly eat them any more….
November 11th, 2009 at 3:28 pm
#126 nama1: LOL!!!!, I bet Tighthead wont though, miss his contributions
November 11th, 2009 at 3:28 pm
#161 cab: If you get it wide early it could surprise them like you did against Australia, that would take the sting out of them. Secretly though I’m hoping for a barney, an all war for the ages
November 11th, 2009 at 3:30 pm
#73 nama1: You can include me on that list. I had an entire blog argument explaining why I would start with Brussouw in such an important test series with so little experience. Brussouw just proved every point I made.
With regards to Schalk he is too good a test player(although had a few shockers lately) to be left out, that is why I would have left out Spies. Schalk or Juan at 8 and 7, with Brussouw at 6. Its still our best combination if everyone was fit.
November 11th, 2009 at 3:30 pm
#164 Big Hit:
exactly right, like the game in perth.
lol, there’s no ways the ref will allow a free-for-all as in days of old, esp Barnesey
November 11th, 2009 at 3:30 pm
#157 gunther: want a hand?
Thats what my company does….
November 11th, 2009 at 3:30 pm
#152 Mutant:
Hooliha!
November 11th, 2009 at 3:31 pm
#156 grant10: great sporting weekend for the french,first up the boks and on saturday the irish in the wc at croke park and my oh my if they win both games those poor frogs might,by monday,appear on the endangered species list!hehehe
November 11th, 2009 at 3:31 pm
#158 cab:
percy and tasmin …
mental sparring….
the mind is boggled…
November 11th, 2009 at 3:32 pm
#90 stew:
That was after almost 4 years and I think, like most people, that Eddie made the difference to our attacking play, even amongst the forwards.
#89 cab:
Frances’ dirty play goes back decades. I reckon it’s something to do with their Plantagenet heritage.
November 11th, 2009 at 3:32 pm
#159 Big Hit: Ja…sounds like a plan…with Adi at 12 its on i reckon…his natural instinct to create…WO more a basher.
November 11th, 2009 at 3:33 pm
#162 gunther: cool…will do that..
November 11th, 2009 at 3:33 pm
#167 grant10:
Excellent.
I need a 20million ZAR bond please?
Need to now move to Camps Bay.
November 11th, 2009 at 3:35 pm
Aren’t my bonny Scotsmen playing this year?
November 11th, 2009 at 3:35 pm
#137 Sharksgirl: well kanko thought he was tough but the italian lock proved he as as soft as baby doo doo…
November 11th, 2009 at 3:36 pm
#169 Valkyrie: Ja…my Irish will do the business…not so sure about the Boks….but will be screaming my head off in La Med at Clifton…in front of the big screen!Heehaa
November 11th, 2009 at 3:36 pm
Actually the way to do it is to try play positive rugby, and take as mush as what is dished out as possible on the chin, but if its time to snap, do so and finish them totally.
A bit like the 99 call, except we will have to call it ‘Boer Concentration Camp’ or something to really get the blood flowing.
That the french had nothing to do with the Boer war is a minor detail.
November 11th, 2009 at 3:36 pm
#168 Dawn: Don’t excite me
November 11th, 2009 at 3:36 pm
#172 grant10: the adi could be the making of the backline creatively, alternatively it could be a disaster, will be interesting finding out
November 11th, 2009 at 3:36 pm
#81 grant10: Agreed, as good as Bismark is, he should wait his turn. I never would have moved Smit to prop. Best possible SA team.
15. J Fourie
14. JP
13. Adi
12. F Steyn
11. Habana
10. M Steyn
9. Fourie
8. Juan/Schalk
7. Juan/Schalk
6. Brussouw
5. Bakkies
4. Victor
3. Daan Human/ WP Nel
2. Smit
1. Beast
November 11th, 2009 at 3:37 pm
#174 Dawn: For you …zero $ interest….100 year term…as long as you invite me across for cocktails once a month!!
November 11th, 2009 at 3:37 pm
#176 Transformation: Hey some Italians have hard heads
November 11th, 2009 at 3:38 pm
#178 cab: LMAO!!
November 11th, 2009 at 3:38 pm
#156 grant10: snails too
November 11th, 2009 at 3:38 pm
#185 Big Hit: Chabal eats them shell and all
November 11th, 2009 at 3:40 pm
#179 Mutant:
Why not !!!
November 11th, 2009 at 3:41 pm
#183 Sharksgirl: what you reckon about the azzuri’s chances against the ABs in the San Siro?
November 11th, 2009 at 3:41 pm
#143 cab: how Keith was a tighthead who was very mobile.
November 11th, 2009 at 3:42 pm
#182 grant10:
No worries!
November 11th, 2009 at 3:43 pm
#180 Big Hit: Yes….have a good feeling about the move to 12….i always felt he was a more natural playmaking 12 than 13….debated hard with Soda Joe and some others months back on the issue.
He was very good with the late Ettion Botha of the falcons playing 12….will be a great match…all the war drums certainly got my interest piqued….
Of course having CJ back the cherry on top for me as well….
I think PDV has done well with the match 22…perhaps i would have played Dewalt or Deysel in place of Bekker or Rossow…but all in all i am happy.
November 11th, 2009 at 3:43 pm
#186 Big Hit:
IMO Chabal is overrated.
Any rugby player who has a clothing line and a range of shampoos and conditioners …………………..
November 11th, 2009 at 3:44 pm
#175 Dawn: they’re playing Fiji this weekend
November 11th, 2009 at 3:45 pm
#192 Dawn: let me finish your sentence,
Any rugby player who has a clothing line and a range of shampoos and conditioners …………………..earns a helluva lot of Euros
November 11th, 2009 at 3:45 pm
#181 Bok fan: Interesting…would not do the J Fourie at 15 thing…and a big call to leave out spies!!
November 11th, 2009 at 3:45 pm
#188 Big Hit:
Ai caramba.
November 11th, 2009 at 3:46 pm
#187 Dawn: Your sinus is already paining, would hate to damage some other internal body parts
November 11th, 2009 at 3:46 pm
#193 Big Hit:
FIJI????
Begorrah.
November 11th, 2009 at 3:47 pm
#188 Big Hit: My heart wants the Azzurri to win but the ABs will take it. Easily I think.
November 11th, 2009 at 3:47 pm
#91 Valkyrie: Thank you!
November 11th, 2009 at 3:48 pm
#194 Big Hit: “…is ***” is the correct ending to the sentence.
November 11th, 2009 at 3:51 pm
#167 grant10:
I know…ts why I used the analogy….
I want better terms than dawn…. I make better cocktails than she does…. she can only drinks (in)famous grouse…
November 11th, 2009 at 3:52 pm
#197 Mutant:
Got any home remedies for sinus?
Dis baie seer.
Trane in my eyes.
November 11th, 2009 at 3:54 pm
#191 grant10: CJ is a helluva big cherry
#199 Sharksgirl: it won’t be easy imo, reckon they’ll be very motivated in front of 80,000. I’ve never been to the San Siro but I’m sure it’s a great atmosphere with the crowd so close to the pitch
November 11th, 2009 at 3:54 pm
#202 gunther:
Who needs cocktails when you have the Grouse.
But I do like that Mochito Mujito and that one with the strawberry and tequila.
November 11th, 2009 at 3:54 pm
#181 Bok fan: I am massive Juan fan, but he is not an “8″. His hands behind the scrum is a downfall and he is just to massive at “7″
November 11th, 2009 at 3:55 pm
#203 Dawn: Don’t they sell seawater nose spray in SA anymore?
November 11th, 2009 at 3:56 pm
#204 Big Hit:
Seen the San Siro on TV.
Crowd makes little or no difference to a team coached by that playboy Mallett who took the job to be near Italian babes!
November 11th, 2009 at 3:57 pm
#204 Big Hit: Went to a soccer match there, the atmosphere is excellent! I would have enjoyed it more, however, If only I had gone with my cousin instead of uncle who was convinced we would be murdered by the “soccer mobs”! :Evil:
The only thing with Italy is that they have very good forwards its just that the backs don’t really know what to do after they get the ball! (almost sounds like my Sharks
)
November 11th, 2009 at 3:57 pm
#203 Dawn: Snorting a shotglass of battery acid up each nostril sorts you out one time shoeshine.
November 11th, 2009 at 3:59 pm
#207 scar:
Does that work?
I have tried everything.
November 11th, 2009 at 4:00 pm
#210 katman:
No man
I’m serious
Dis regtig seer.
November 11th, 2009 at 4:01 pm
WHO ? WHO ELSE IS ABSOLUTELY SICK OF THIS KIND OF STATEMENT -
‘but the Tricolores seem obsessed with the Boks’ physicality, and Lievremont said ‘they play to hurt’.
I MEAN REALLY !
We are not rough ! We play the game like true gentlemen.
We are not physical. We play with skills but softly.
November 11th, 2009 at 4:03 pm
#211 Dawn:
sea water followed by a vindaloo works wonders.
#213 rugbygenius:
exactly Genius, smartest thing u said yet, like wee angels.
November 11th, 2009 at 4:04 pm
#208 Dawn: I’m sure Nick is a good family man and probably wouldn’t even notice those shapely tanned Italian beauties
#209 Sharksgirl: v.true about the backs, but I’m not sure the NZ pack is strong right now. San Siro looks like a terrific stadium. Should be an interesting game.
November 11th, 2009 at 4:05 pm
#205 Dawn:
*** on the beach?
November 11th, 2009 at 4:05 pm
#189 John1976:
sorry you right, but he also used to play hooker not so?
i seem to have this image of him feeding the lineouts in hoops.
November 11th, 2009 at 4:05 pm
#213 rugbygenius:
Bakkies is that you
November 11th, 2009 at 4:06 pm
#214 cab:
How do you get a vindaloo up your nose?
#216 gunther:
Very sandy. Highly overrated.
November 11th, 2009 at 4:06 pm
#213 rugbygenius:
And helpful as well. Look at Schalk helping Fitzgerald to fit his contact lense and Bakkies friendly welcoming butt on the shoulder.
November 11th, 2009 at 4:06 pm
#214 cab: Or you should go to Minato’s for sushi tonight and ask old Mr Minato for extra Wasabi. One heaped tablespoon, swallowed briskly, will render any sinus problems very low on your order or priorities.
November 11th, 2009 at 4:06 pm
#208 Dawn: Damn when he could have had an Italian babe here in SA
November 11th, 2009 at 4:07 pm
#219 Dawn:
that is a bit drastic, i was thinking in your mouth, tho the side-effect is felt the next day.
November 11th, 2009 at 4:07 pm
#213 rugbygenius: Yes Sir. Even ol’ Bakkies is unfairly targeted . Itsobvious when a big man like that is doing the tackles it is going to look worse than it really is .
TO PUT IT IN A CLEVER WAY …
It’s like when a Lion is playing with other lions.
It can look rough to peoples yes ?
But for the Lions, it is just some games with fun . Not sore.
Is the same for Bakkies and Spies doing tackles. Rugb men must be strong. It looks sore for us but for them its nice.
November 11th, 2009 at 4:08 pm
#221 katman:
hehe, you not wrong there, potent stuff.
November 11th, 2009 at 4:08 pm
#219 Dawn: No, you laugh really hard mid-mouthful and it comes out your nose.
November 11th, 2009 at 4:08 pm
#101 Transformation: Yes, I did reply to your comment (#8) the first time, because I saw that this was once again going to become a JW vs PdV discussion. I also then started of to say that my firts post is all poeple who like to take sides. (You were the first person so take side for PdV, just like WP was the firts person to take sides for JW).
Let me quickly remad you of what you said: “i wonder what jake makes out of all of this “boks have an extra dimension & are a totally complete side” cause it is in a way revealing of a certain limitation in his thinking, a “blind spot” if you like…hhmmm. Well thank goodness now we have a coach who is adaptable & dynamic in his rugby thinking.”
That comment is belitteling and disrespecful towards JW, just as many other bloggers comments are disrespectful to PdV. That is not “discussing rugby philossophy” as you liked to put it in your next comment towards me. All I tried to do was bring some perspective on the achievementys of both coaches, before people fall into the pit of name calling, like they always do. Now, is your comments so far you have called me:
Unable to duscuss rugby phylosophy
Unbale to formulate an arguement
Actually, unable to “follow the written word” , in other words, unable to read. Great discussion techinique!
What I find interresting is that most other bloggers who have commented on my first post, agreed with me (apart from Dr Dre) and did not read any of the things into what I said that you did. Nor did they accuse of being unable to read or formulate an arguement. Also, I did pull the race card on you. What I said was that you were accusing me of talking achievements instead of being able to discuss rugby phylossophy. I said that you, like all other people talk about things – like racial issues – instead of rugby phillosphy just as much.
Don’t worry, I’ll just scroll over your posts.
November 11th, 2009 at 4:08 pm
#218 Dawn: I cannot say. You will have to guess yes
!
November 11th, 2009 at 4:09 pm
#224 rugbygenius:
RG, i fear you may have migrated onto the harder stuff, slow down old boy.
November 11th, 2009 at 4:10 pm
#220 David: Is not to say some guys don’t get carried away .
To use my story again….
Sometimes when a lion isplaying – it can bite the other lion very hard and this is painful. The other lion, the one that was bitten must say ‘Hey stop that’ to the lion that bit him sir. Then they can play some more . Mistakes happen like this in rugy also.
November 11th, 2009 at 4:11 pm
#224 rugbygenius:
LOL. That is a very clever (South African) way. Couldn’t have said it better myself.
November 11th, 2009 at 4:11 pm
#229 cab: But do you understand where I am coming from my friend ?
November 11th, 2009 at 4:11 pm
Am squirting salt tonight.
November 11th, 2009 at 4:12 pm
#231 Mutant: Thank you Mutant. You see people have been saying ‘Hey wena rugbygenius – you are not a genius for supporting ol’ Earl’ . Now I must prove that I am a rugby genius .
November 11th, 2009 at 4:13 pm
#230 rugbygenius:
Why you use the lions as your hypothetical example.
katman my baas is in the vicinity.
November 11th, 2009 at 4:13 pm
#232 rugbygenius:
not really mate, but it seems to be a warm fuzzy place and all good.
November 11th, 2009 at 4:14 pm
#212 Dawn:
go to the pharmacy
ask for friars balsam and eucalyptus oil
add a few drops of each to a saucepan of boiling water
inhale deeply with a towel over your head for 5 minutes
repeat periodically
you will look like a suicide bomber but you will feel better…
November 11th, 2009 at 4:14 pm
#233 Dawn: I’m not sure what to make of that statement. Is it a cultural slang?
November 11th, 2009 at 4:14 pm
#231 Mutant:
You are hereby invited to a salt squirting session at my place!
November 11th, 2009 at 4:16 pm
#238 katman:
There’s a lot about my culture you don’t know, baas.
#237 gunther:
Thank you.
Will add that to the salt squirting.
November 11th, 2009 at 4:17 pm
#128 Dawn:
?
#136 Dawn:
?!
theres, thats 2 now. Dont be greedy.
#206 scar:
are you bigger than Kobus ?
#203 Dawn:
a Eucalyptus-infused steam inhalation does the trick every time.
Thats 3. Now going away, Im spoiling you.
November 11th, 2009 at 4:17 pm
#235 Dawn: We can say the same for the Hyena or the Wildehond. It is not just for the lions. #236 cab: Thank you sir.
November 11th, 2009 at 4:17 pm
#221 katman:
just don’t ask him where douglas green
#219 Dawn:
slippery nipple?
November 11th, 2009 at 4:18 pm
#241 WakaNathan:
Please sir … can I have some more?
November 11th, 2009 at 4:19 pm
#237 gunther:
that’ll be the 1 and the same.
I get shocking sinus problems. Too many broken noses. Eucalyptus inhalations are the biznoss.
November 11th, 2009 at 4:19 pm
#234 rugbygenius: he needs to put on some muscle and loose his silly michael jackson gear for people to take him seriously-maybe go overseas then return better ,prove he can make teams on merrit overseas -becuase unfortunately hes labled a quota
November 11th, 2009 at 4:19 pm
#244 Dawn:
whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaat ??!!!
MOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOORE ?!
November 11th, 2009 at 4:22 pm
#246 bolandboy: Ja BOLAND you are right. I think maybe Western Force should have taken him instead of that old man Pretorious. But even then he can still be a good player for Tolouse or Saracens. But we also need him here as a back up . If he goes away we may forget him and his skills.
November 11th, 2009 at 4:23 pm
#243 gunther:
All cocktails are **** except the two I mentioned.
And, of course, the Cuba Libre.
November 11th, 2009 at 4:24 pm
wonder what team PDV will pick to face Italy, will he give the SA 4 best that he took along a go at them, and risk a loss, or play the best 15 witch we only have 15 of over there, well 18 now that 3 of them have left…
November 11th, 2009 at 4:25 pm
#247 WakaNathan:
Dickens rocks.
November 11th, 2009 at 4:26 pm
#251 Dawn:
that also happens to be my kids favourite line of all time and we play that scene out no less than once a week, every week.
November 11th, 2009 at 4:27 pm
#239 Dawn: I warned you about exciting me…and that sounds amazing. See you in Camps Bay?
November 11th, 2009 at 4:30 pm
In order of goodness – who are the best flanks of ALL time.
November 11th, 2009 at 4:30 pm
#241 WakaNathan:
you are several steps behind dr gunther …
next you will be selling my buttered rum recipe on the interweb…
November 11th, 2009 at 4:31 pm
Actually Transformation, I made my initial post this morning in defence of both coaches, because I’m sick of people talking about the same things over and over again. Hoping it would bring some perspective.
I did not attack you. I did not call you names. (I did say that people – all people – who fail to recognise the achievements of these two coaches, are ignorant and arrogant.) I did not imply that you were stupid in any of my posts. Yet, you keep on imlying that I am stupid, unable to argue, even unable to read. Your posts is not discussion, its putting people down. Insulting their intelligence.
What I find funny is that in my first post, I actually stood up for PdV – the coach you were trying to defend against tyhe masses!
November 11th, 2009 at 4:33 pm
#253 Mutant:
Noooo!
At the moment I am a member of the working class.
Not yet Camps Bay!
Humble Wynberg, the bastion of the proletariat.
November 11th, 2009 at 4:34 pm
#254 rugbygenius:
Classic.
“In order of goodness ……… ”
November 11th, 2009 at 4:37 pm
#258 Dawn: Sorry my ENglish is not so good. What must I say ?
November 11th, 2009 at 4:37 pm
#249 Dawn:
do you have any cuban in you?
November 11th, 2009 at 4:37 pm
#254 rugbygenius: Pure genius
November 11th, 2009 at 4:39 pm
#259 rugbygenius: No but that’s why we love you genie boy, please don’t change your grammar. I reckon Michael Jones and Jan Ellis must be some of the goodest flanks.
November 11th, 2009 at 4:40 pm
#262 Mutant: Thank you but what of Ruben Kruger ?
November 11th, 2009 at 4:41 pm
#227 fsjakes: deans, pocock, lievremont, krige all said brussow adds another dimensionm white in two interviews this year tells us heinrich aint up to it, schalla is the man…if you ask me, after what i’ve seen this yearie brussow’s performances vs the way our loose forwards never competed on the ground, i agree with lievremont & co….what do u think?
There you go in simple english
Wha
November 11th, 2009 at 4:41 pm
#260 gunther:
Is that a leading statement.
November 11th, 2009 at 4:42 pm
#206 scar: Then Schalk can play 8. Always wanted him to get good practice in the Super 14 with Luke playing as a genuine fetcher alla Brussouw
November 11th, 2009 at 4:45 pm
Goodness
My flat is gonna be a mess tonight.
Salt squirting and eucalyptus and friars balsam everywhere
November 11th, 2009 at 4:45 pm
#259 rugbygenius:
in order of bestness…
from the most best
to
the worst best…
November 11th, 2009 at 4:45 pm
#265 Dawn: lol. Its a pickup line Dawn.
Should you say “No” his response will be.”I am Cuban. Would you like some Cuban in you?”
November 11th, 2009 at 4:46 pm
#256 fsjakes: transie is just too sensitive today…. seeing ghosts behind every tree i guess.
November 11th, 2009 at 4:47 pm
#254 rugbygenius:
you cant be for real surely ?
if so then wow, no wonder you rate rose as the best things since sliced bread.
November 11th, 2009 at 4:48 pm
#265 Dawn:
as in do you want some?
no…
but seriously get the balsam…go to wynberg pharmacy…
November 11th, 2009 at 4:51 pm
#269 Taahirah:
I know … just tugging his chain.
Gotta give him something to think about before his Pilates class later.
November 11th, 2009 at 4:51 pm
#267 Dawn:
dont forget the vindaloo, tho you *** might sting, does the trick everytime.
November 11th, 2009 at 4:52 pm
#270 Valkyrie:
Naaah.
He’s seeing the KKK under every bush.
November 11th, 2009 at 4:53 pm
#273 Dawn:
pilates thursday….
wednesday
massage
happy ending
steak
done…
November 11th, 2009 at 4:55 pm
#269 Taahirah:
no you just say…
do you want some…
you have to be cuban though
obviously…
November 11th, 2009 at 4:56 pm
#276 gunther:
Why you talking funny suddenly.
November 11th, 2009 at 4:57 pm
actually in rugby season up in the highveld it was tough to breathe with sinus problems, when it starts getting a greenish colour u apparently got to worry tho.
just have a snot blow-out.
dip in the ocean followed by courses of vindaloo curry and wassabe mustard, then some eucaplyptus steaming, and if still got problem – time for operation.
November 11th, 2009 at 4:57 pm
#274 cab:
Listen
I ain’t sticking no vindaloo up my ***.
November 11th, 2009 at 4:58 pm
ok enough kakpraat, i’m having an arse blow-out at present, ate something last night and never seen anything like it. dirty french ********.
November 11th, 2009 at 5:00 pm
#281 cab:
Ag nee sies man.
November 11th, 2009 at 5:01 pm
#282 Dawn:
ja maar dus waar, dankie vader dus n vakansie want ek slaap naby die toilet.
November 11th, 2009 at 5:04 pm
#281 cab:
in the words of the immortal hugh bladen beautiful..
#276 gunther:
its my schedule…
November 11th, 2009 at 5:08 pm
#264 Transformation: There you go again: “There you go in simple english”. Why always comments like these? Why always put people down? Why belittle people?
Secondly, never once did I say that Burger should be chosen before Brossouw, or visa versa for that matter. I actually never even commented once on any of these players. My post was about PdV and JW.
To answer your question. Brussouw deserves his place in the starting 15 at the moment. Yes, he does ad an extra dimension to the bok team. But, this was not you initial agruement. You argued that because JW did not rate Brossouw earlier in the year in two interviews, has a “blind spot”. And you used this arguement to substantiate the fact that PdV is therefore a better coach because he is able to adapt and change. Right? Did I read that correctly?
Using your logic? What do you think of the following?
PdV rates Ruan Pienaar as SA’s best flyhalf. He said so in an interview after the 3N. Steyn played deserved his place, but that Ruan was still the best flyhalf in SA. Plumtree thinks that Ruan is a scrumhalf, that he should play there and that it is his best position. Who is the one with a blindspot?
PdV rates Smit, Beast, Ralapelle, Maku, Steenkamp, Du Plessis as the best frontrankers in the country. Olle le Roux, Os, Dougie Heymans, Naka Drotske, Erasmus all regard Wian du Preez, WP Nel, Adriaan Sraus, Tiaan Liebenberg and Brock Harris as the best fron rankers in the country. Who has the blindspot?
PdV rates Earl Rose as a flyhalf or is it a fullback, anyway one of the most talented backline players in SA. He got dropped from the Lions side. Who has the blindspot?
Should I continue?
November 11th, 2009 at 5:19 pm
#264 Transformation:
that is not what I read that White said.
White said that he doubted if Brussouw would have the profound individual impact that Burger has had. (Unfortunately not for a while now)
Burger, in his first full season of international rugby was voted IRB player of the year.
Brussouw will not win that award in his first year. Possibly never.
White did not say that Brussouw is not a good player.
To suggest that White would not have selected Brussouw is pure speculation and quite frankly laughable. Comparing any Luke Watson “to small and not physical enough” comments with Brussouw are completely inaccurate. Brussouw is a short squat freak who is hard as nails….Watson, when compared…is a show-boating fairy.
Need we remind each other that it took the entire bench of forward substitutes to get injured in THAT 2nd test before DeVilliers eventually got Brussouw onto the pitch?
To be fair, the only reason we compare Brussouw and Burger is because they both wear a 6. Ocean’s apart withregards to what they both bring to a rugby field.
I personally have a lot of sympathy for Burger.For the past 18 months he’s had stop-start injuries and loss of form.
When on form….he’s one of the finest rugby players South Africa has produced. A complete freak.
I’m not sure we can say that of Brussouw yet.
November 11th, 2009 at 5:21 pm
#254 rugbygenius:
1. Michael Jones
2. R.McCaw
*daylight*
3. take your pick.
November 11th, 2009 at 5:24 pm
And….need it be reminded that until Pierre Spies got injured, DeVilliers had Brussouw excluded from this game.
November 11th, 2009 at 5:26 pm
1. Schalla “The Magnificent Wrecker” Burger
2. Andre Venter
3. Zinzan
Daylight
November 11th, 2009 at 5:27 pm
#287 WakaNathan:
Michael Jones?
Please, the game was way slower back then.
I could have played opensider.
Anyway, don’t exclude Neil Back from that list either. He was way underrated.
November 11th, 2009 at 5:30 pm
#290 Brigadier Van Zyl: Richard Hill even more so.
November 11th, 2009 at 5:31 pm
And anyway, the key to an opensider being able to do his thing, is to make sure the entire balance is just right.Generally with the blindsider and 8 being both very physical ball carriers.
Take George Smith for example. His initial impact way back when had that fat ******* Finegan and Somoan both playing with him if I remember correctly.
even mcCaw….is he as good without Jerry Colins not there?
Neil Back….Dayglo and Hill.
…that’s my theory.
use it,don’t use it.
November 11th, 2009 at 5:32 pm
#291 Big Hit:
snap!
November 11th, 2009 at 5:34 pm
#287 WakaNathan:
You wouldn’t be a bit biased, by any chance?
November 11th, 2009 at 5:36 pm
pinball wizards
1. jan boland
2. ruben
3. brussow
November 11th, 2009 at 5:37 pm
#289 cab:
Zinny was a superb flanker but on a technicality he must surely be considered solely as a no8. Which is not a flanker.
November 11th, 2009 at 5:38 pm
#296 WakaNathan:
gotta be one of the best looseforwards ever, had the lot, could truly play in any position in backrow.
November 11th, 2009 at 5:40 pm
only worldcup winners can be considered for this list.
that excludes all kiwis
“lol”
November 11th, 2009 at 5:41 pm
#290 Brigadier Van Zyl:
Slower ? clearly you never saw the Great Man.
Ive certainly never seen a finer player than Iceman, let alone a flanker.
But, then, perhaps coverage wasnt so fluid in his blooming years of the late-80’s…
Neil Back only deserves a mention in the Greatest Cheating Flankers of alltime.
November 11th, 2009 at 5:42 pm
#299 WakaNathan:
i thought the black panther was supposedly finer than the iceman?
November 11th, 2009 at 5:42 pm
#294 David:
Start writing a list of all the ones here who arent.
It will be a short list.
Very.
November 11th, 2009 at 5:44 pm
#299 WakaNathan:
please the oke was soft in the head.’
couldn’t even play on a Sunday.
November 11th, 2009 at 5:46 pm
#300 cab:
Icemans 1st media nickname was ‘Black Panther’ in a befitting reference to the great Waka. Same position, same teams.
But Iceman stuck soon after. Like most of his victims did to the ground.
Ice’d.
November 11th, 2009 at 5:48 pm
thought the black panther was waka and the iceman was jones.
appparently waka was very special but injured himself.
November 11th, 2009 at 5:50 pm
#302 Brigadier Van Zyl:
So soft, that opposition teams starting scheduling games on a Sunday.
The Wallabies built whole defensive patterns around buring Ice under rucks at 2nd phase.
I know it sounds a bit mythical. Like Camelot. But its all true.
Iceman on 2 goods leg circa 87 – 89 (before the horrific knee injury vs Argies) is THE best rugby player Ive been blessed to witness, ever.
November 11th, 2009 at 5:51 pm
#299 WakaNathan: michael jones was and is still the best,the greatest loose-forward i have ever seen in my life.jones is the king of loose-forwards and a very principled human i have to add.just have the greatest of respect for this rugby legend.
November 11th, 2009 at 5:52 pm
i think Cane was also a big waka fan, apparently he toured SA, will need to ask my old man.
the one that tore the bokke a new one was brian williams on the wing with those massive thighs, but think that was a little after waka.
November 11th, 2009 at 5:52 pm
#304 cab:
Ice Toeava is a podiatristic fraud !
November 11th, 2009 at 5:54 pm
#307 cab:
Never toured SA, Visa denied.
He was Auckland Capt and ABs star player.
What you lot got in RSA was merely a SA Govt Select’ed NZ XV masquerading as the ABs. Right up til 1992.
November 11th, 2009 at 5:55 pm
#308 WakaNathan:
yessus, sounds like a complex pun, i dunno about any of that, but what is beyond me is why Ice is not playing centre, he and kahui are the future – damn good.
November 11th, 2009 at 5:56 pm
#305 WakaNathan:
well, you obviously saw more of him than I did but the game was way slower back then.
November 11th, 2009 at 5:58 pm
#309 WakaNathan:
yeah thats true to a certain extent, but later on brian williams toured. the cavaliers in 86 were a pretty potent squad too – 87 RWC would have been very interesting if not for the stupid SA govt at the time.
November 11th, 2009 at 5:59 pm
#291 Big Hit:
jeepers while we are at it why not deano…
November 11th, 2009 at 6:00 pm
#309 WakaNathan: those maoris were better off at the end of the day…might have ended up at the bottom of a staircase!
November 11th, 2009 at 6:00 pm
#301 WakaNathan:
JP Reeves and Fergus Slattery are two that come to mind. Then there was the SA duo of Greyling and Ellis.
November 11th, 2009 at 6:01 pm
#315 David:
but who was better: jan boland or greyling, or is that like comparing brussouw to juan?
November 11th, 2009 at 6:03 pm
bladdy stupid south africans, i mean wtf were they banning these great maori players for, i know the answer of course, but the sheer arrogance.
November 11th, 2009 at 6:06 pm
imagine what nutjobs like Burger Geldenhys and Skalk senior would have done to Moari’s if they would have toured?
Imagine if Flippie van der Merve had decided to sit on one of these boys.
Heinrich Rogers,etc..
November 11th, 2009 at 6:07 pm
#318 Brigadier Van Zyl:
you seen the size of those maori fellas?
they make even our lot look like midgets.
November 11th, 2009 at 6:07 pm
if you think we have some nutters these days, back then they where positively phsyco’s
November 11th, 2009 at 6:08 pm
#319 cab:
Flippie was one fat *******.Even by todays standards.
November 11th, 2009 at 6:10 pm
#316 cab:
Yes, Ellis was the ultimate openside at the time, whilst Greyling was the ball carrier and extremely fast.
November 11th, 2009 at 6:13 pm
#321 Brigadier Van Zyl:
lol, yeah but those polynesian guys are massive too. see some of the guys that get drafted into the NFL or work on the doors over there, mamoth.
November 11th, 2009 at 6:14 pm
#322 David:
so who is the best ‘fecther’ SA opensider you seen:
ellis, jan boland or brussow?
November 11th, 2009 at 6:15 pm
#321 Brigadier Van Zyl:
1 of my alltime favourite rugby moments is Flippie being welcomed on to Athletic Park, Boks vs Wellington, 1981, by the announcer as such:-
“Flippie van der Merwe replaces ‘X’ in the no3 jersey today but will be wearing the blank jersey as he could not fit the replacements jersey”
or words to that effect.
I laughed about that for months.
He had a belly that swung in the scrums. Like Brigadier ‘Piet’ van Zyls.
November 11th, 2009 at 6:17 pm
#285 fsjakes: lol…fyi, in my initial post i made two observations.
1. lievremont & some other coaches think heinrich has added an extra dimension to the springboks, and continued to wonder what jake would make out of this, since he has been vocal about not selecting heinrich.
2. that the current coach, who by the way also didn’t select brussow, seems for our own good fortune and adaptable character who can be convinced to change his thinking.
now why you felt the need to respond to my post & bunch me in with the rest of the people you were addressing i have no idea. you have continued this whole afternoon to try and box me as a pdv defender and others as pdv critics, i hold no subscriptions to neither.
thank you for finally answering my question. it wasn’t that hard, was it?
November 11th, 2009 at 6:17 pm
#325 WakaNathan:
lol every ship needs ballast…
#324 cab:
ruben kruger pretty handy…
November 11th, 2009 at 6:18 pm
#312 cab:
‘to a certain extent’ meant that the ABs were limted to a max of 3 non-white players in 1970 and ‘76. This during a period where NZs total population of 2.2million was 30-40% Maori and 5-8% Polynesian.
So, no, not before the 1992 match did an AB team land in RSA with a ‘full team’.
November 11th, 2009 at 6:21 pm
#328 WakaNathan:
i would never make excuses for the SA govt policy, those f’ckwads should have been hanged but thats probably neither here nor there, what i am interested in tho is how many of the NZ touring teams that were beaten, would have won if they could select their ‘full’ teams?
also, they lost a few at home too, presumably with ‘full’ teams.
#327 gunther:
yeah one of my favourites, the silent assasin, great player.
November 11th, 2009 at 6:22 pm
#328 WakaNathan:
Which sort of means all your complaints about travel, quotas and citings rather pale to insignificance. Imagine the opposition, your main rivals, with hometown Afrikaaner refs, selecting your team before it left on the plane ?!
1992 onwards are the only reliable records between NZ vs SA. Fact.
November 11th, 2009 at 6:24 pm
#329 cab:
Only lost to SA once in NZ.
NZ has only 1 Series win in SA.
Both those were ‘full teams’. We were alot more hospitable in Aotearoa.
November 11th, 2009 at 6:24 pm
#326 Transformation:
I agree I see div’s willingless to admit his mistakes and make needed changes timeously as one of his greatest qualities…. most internatioal coaches of any sports code are notoriously stubborn…including the “special one”….
November 11th, 2009 at 6:24 pm
after 1992 these maori dominated all black teams quickly established a superior win-lose bok ratio.you just can’t but but admire the maori contribution to new zeeland rugby.
November 11th, 2009 at 6:26 pm
I’d have to add JP Rives, O.Finegan, J.Ellis and J.Kronfeld in the following bunch.
November 11th, 2009 at 6:26 pm
#316 cab: Different blokes different strokes.
Hard to compare them.
One was rock hard no nonsense, the other a better ball player.
November 11th, 2009 at 6:28 pm
the hometown refs probably made a difference, but i shouldn’t imagine nz would be much different, and even when they got a ‘neutral’ like norling, there was surely an offer of a farm in auckland to blow 10mins into the 3rd half…
what is fact, is that prior to 92, SA had the best test ledger of any team in the world of rugby union, and that includes a positive win record over the ABs.
November 11th, 2009 at 6:29 pm
#335 Kronung:
that you Piet?
so who was the best fetcher?
November 11th, 2009 at 6:37 pm
#324 cab:
I reckon Ellis, although the rules were different then. Most opensiders were of the “tearaway” type. Rob Louw was closer in style to Ellis than Brussouw and Boland was closer to Brussow.
I suppose if I had to rate the best opensiders it’d be
1 Ellis, 2 Louw, 3 Boland, 4 Tiaan Strauss. But that’s obviously just a personal opinion.
November 11th, 2009 at 6:43 pm
#337 cab: Nope not Piet.
November 11th, 2009 at 6:45 pm
#338 David:
Ellis, holy ****. Saw a bit of rob louw, liked his style, a bit like burger without the size. tiaan was great too. the wildebeest-tackling story was even better.
November 11th, 2009 at 6:51 pm
#330 WakaNathan: Waka we’ll open a TRC (Truth and Reconciliation Commission) headed by Desmond Tutu himself so we can help you get over this trauma of yours.
I feel some therapy is needed so you can finally move on.
November 11th, 2009 at 6:54 pm
#330 WakaNathan:
I agree.
November 11th, 2009 at 6:56 pm
I see two players from my alma mater have been selected for england on saturday nice work boys keep the flag flying…
November 11th, 2009 at 7:10 pm
#326 Transformation: Seeing that I can’t read or understand anything you say, please explain how I have been trying to “box you as PdV defender and all the rest as PdV critics.” I do however wonder, did you not try and defend PdV against WP’s comment (#4) by saing:
“i wonder what jake makes out of all of this “boks have an extra dimension & are a totally complete side” cause it is in a way revealing of a certain limitation in his thinking, a “blind spot” if you like…hhmmm. Well thank goodness now we have a coach who is adaptable & dynamic in his rugby thinking.”
Just a question, I might be reading it wrongly… being so illiterate and all.
That was your initial post (NO mention of Lievremont, etc. That only comes in your response to my first post) and the one that I made my comment about that both these coaches need to be respected based on their achievements. You the went on your whole Burger vs Brossouw crusade (which I did not enter into), as well as insulting me the whole way.
Never once did I disagree with anything you said regarding Burger or Brossouw, yet you keep on insulting me. That is what I have been taking issue with after my first post – NOT your view of PdV or Burger or Brussouw – but the way in which did it. Never once did you comment on anything I actually said. Then again, according to you I can’t read or understand.
Also, what I find interresting is that you keep on going at me on this Burger vs rant – even though I never made a comment on any of them initially. Yet, I have read many apost arguing against your point of what White’s view is on Brossouw and you never actually engaged in any of those arguments.
November 11th, 2009 at 7:10 pm
#332 gunther: that was my point G, but fskakes here had other intentions. pdv’s style of management reminds me of phil jackson with the chicago bulls in the late nineties, where he came into a team with jordan, pippen, kerr, kukoc, longley etc and made them invincible. sometimes he deferred plays to jordan to call, sometimes he would call a ply ending with michael taking the clutch shot & michael’d be like “nah let steve take it” and that’s how thy would win a game…anyway, people just like to put others in a box (don’t wanna sound ironic or what not incase i do it too)
eish, jose looks to be one stubborn mofo but i dig him anyway…
November 11th, 2009 at 7:14 pm
are you two still slugging?
stop it you friggin racists.
and grant, john smit is the greatest. you heard it here eh? bleddy provincialist.
November 11th, 2009 at 7:20 pm
#344 fsjakes: read the first line of this thread….
November 11th, 2009 at 7:22 pm
#346 rangerman:
amen….
November 11th, 2009 at 7:24 pm
#345 Transformation: When did I ever disagree with you on PdV’s management style? When did I ever disagree with you on ANYTHING? When did I ever put you into a box? You were the one you attacked my inttelect. You were the one who insulted me.
What was my “intentions”? like you put it to gunter. I was the first person on this thread today, that actually stood up for both coaches! Who had a complete impartial view! Who said that both should be respected in their own right! YOU were the one who then decided to insult me over that.
November 11th, 2009 at 7:24 pm
He who sometimes changes his mind is wise. He who constantly changes his mind is an indecisive fool…
#346,
In which position is he the greatest, and by greatest do you mean as a South African or internationally?
November 11th, 2009 at 7:26 pm
#349,
Don’t start, he has his period.
November 11th, 2009 at 7:27 pm
#348 gunther: njalo nje
#347 Transformation: hey quota blogger, hoesit?
November 11th, 2009 at 7:27 pm
#347 Transformation: #1 “If they focus on nullifying Brussow, which I’m sure Dusautoir and harinorodquy will br doing, they will open up space for Schalk Burger to run havoc on the ground as well!”
What does that have to do with your first post: ““i wonder what jake makes out of all of this “boks have an extra dimension & are a totally complete side” cause it is in a way revealing of a certain limitation in his thinking, a “blind spot” if you like…hhmmm. Well thank goodness now we have a coach who is adaptable & dynamic in his rugby thinking.”
Explain the logic?
November 11th, 2009 at 7:29 pm
By the look of the Bokke – France poll quite a lot of people will have a bad weekend on Superbru.
Fearsome Frogs by 11
November 11th, 2009 at 7:29 pm
#346 rangerman: Why call us racists? What have anyone said taday that was racist?
November 11th, 2009 at 7:29 pm
#350 Die_Valk: THE GREATEST.
simple really.
November 11th, 2009 at 7:30 pm
#352 rangerman:
bonsoir … how is the dodgy meat business when am I getting my “trade samples”….
November 11th, 2009 at 7:31 pm
SEABASS!!!!
November 11th, 2009 at 7:31 pm
#355 fsjakes: i take it back you bunch of crackers.
it comes from a context you were clearly not here for.
November 11th, 2009 at 7:33 pm
#356,
We all live in our own worlds I guess.
Frik du Preez as far as South Africa goes.
November 11th, 2009 at 7:33 pm
#357 gunther: at dinner with the in laws.
animals are my friends.
they taste good too.
November 11th, 2009 at 7:35 pm
#359 rangerman: Sorry man, did mean to snap. Have just been trying to reason with Transformation the whole day. Made me a bit on the edge.
November 11th, 2009 at 7:35 pm
#360 Die_Valk: no.
good man Oom Frik.
but he couldnt scrum like JS.
i am off racists, cheers!
November 11th, 2009 at 7:36 pm
“Didn’t mean to snap”
November 11th, 2009 at 7:40 pm
#349 fsjakes: when did you put me in a box?
“First of all, my post was not just directed at you (although, you are one of the people who love to shoot down JW more than alot of other people)”
“Stop thinking across racial lines (which frankly, you seem to do just as much as aany other).”
November 11th, 2009 at 7:42 pm
#352 rangerman: what’s up rangerman, you’ve been scarce here since the sharks capitulated. have you paid to fix the Kaizer Chiefs bus?
November 11th, 2009 at 7:42 pm
#355 fsjakes:
chill there pilgrim…the rsnger is talking with his large tongue in his small cheek…..
November 11th, 2009 at 7:45 pm
#366 Transformation: #367 gunther: you guys are two top chaps.
my skoonpa wants to moer me, must go.
November 11th, 2009 at 7:45 pm
#363,
I hope your joking. If not, you’ll get a reality check on Friday. Os is also one of the greats. 13 years in international rugby as a front rower is unheard of.
November 11th, 2009 at 7:50 pm
#351 Die_Valk: howzit valkie…
November 11th, 2009 at 7:54 pm
#369 Die_Valk:
Yeah, those Free Staters never did know when to give up.
November 11th, 2009 at 8:00 pm
#353 fsjakes: the first line of the article. jeepers…
November 11th, 2009 at 8:27 pm
Hey Trans.
#371,
Don’t get me started. Vrystaat!
November 11th, 2009 at 8:30 pm
#372 Transformation: Transformation, its been fun. I hope that the box that I put you in doesn’t get to small. I will go back to school and learn to “comprehend the written word.” You still haven’t ansewerd any of my questions either.
November 11th, 2009 at 8:32 pm
#372 Transformation: Transformation, its been fun. Hope that box I put you in doesn’t get to small.
November 11th, 2009 at 8:35 pm
#375 fsjakes: interesting nic… explain?
November 11th, 2009 at 8:39 pm
#374 fsjakes: cheers fsjakes…u must never!
November 11th, 2009 at 8:39 pm
#376 SpringbokSarah: fs – free state, the team I support appart from boks. jakes – my high school nick name.
November 11th, 2009 at 8:49 pm
#378 fsjakes: and #377 Transformation: Gents, come on, both of you guys respect both coaches , WTF is this, you would swear you okes are at Gaza Strip.
Both men, JW & PDV have done a great job for the Boks, one was a stubborn bugger, the other shows willingness to adapt, and neither of these traits are wrong, it just depends when are they applied.
November 11th, 2009 at 8:58 pm
#379 XhosaKid: We’ve burried the hachet. Moved on.
November 11th, 2009 at 9:12 pm
#374 fsjakes:
Just have anotherb go at spelling “philosophy”, you almost got there at the second attempt.
November 11th, 2009 at 9:13 pm
#381 David: I’ll do that and then you try “anotherb”…
November 11th, 2009 at 9:26 pm
#382 fsjakes:
That was a typo, not a spelling error, as you well know.
November 11th, 2009 at 9:28 pm
#383 David:
The point is, just calm down.
November 11th, 2009 at 9:31 pm
#384 David: Why are you on my case now? Calm down from what?
November 11th, 2009 at 9:35 pm
#384 David: You made a joke, I actually made one back… I know it was a typo, but in light of your comment, not a good time to make a typo. Therefore, my reply…
November 11th, 2009 at 9:36 pm
#379 XhosaKid: lol @ gaza strip. Hey ngqawa if i say nelson mandela seems to have a blindspot for the current anc administration, i don’t expect you to be jumping up & trying to paint me as ungrateful & trying to remind me that rholihlahla spent 27yrs in jail instead of examining whether i have a point or not in my observation…feel me?
Otherwise atheni na lama-french ethethela phezulu kangaka nje?
November 11th, 2009 at 9:37 pm
i can’t believe ad jacobs is playing, he was useless in EA Rugby 2007 and equally hopeless in real life.
November 11th, 2009 at 9:39 pm
#385 fsjakes:
You and Transie have been going on about “you said, I said” for over 3 hrs now. This is an open blog and it’s become boring for the rest of us. There have always been differences of opinion here regarding Jake and PdeV and we’ve come to accept it.
I realise that you think Transie might be a bit sensitive, but just read Hondos comments on the other thread about PdeV and quotas, and you’ll realise why.
November 11th, 2009 at 9:47 pm
#389 David: David, I actually never disagreed with him about any rugby matters. I did however take offense to the way he implied that I am stupid and can’t formulate an arguement, especially after I didn’t even attack him or said anything nasty about him initially.
I agree. It is boring! have been going on for way to long. But, he doesn’t want to stop. Read 387.
Sorry that we bored you!
November 11th, 2009 at 9:52 pm
#387 Transformation:
Give it a break, pleeeease.
November 11th, 2009 at 9:53 pm
#386 fsjakes:
Sorry, you did. I reckon the red wine is interfering with my sense of humour.
November 11th, 2009 at 9:55 pm
transie and jakes like 2 novice attorneys going at it for the 1 st time….
Almost as bad as my J Smit cant scrum tirade!!
And by the way…just for the record…he cant!
November 11th, 2009 at 10:06 pm
#393 grant10: What’t the verdict your honour?
November 11th, 2009 at 10:11 pm
#393 grant10: #391 David: nah man, i just had to go in on fsjakes…i could tell he is soft. Otherwise i’m cooler that freddie jackson eating ice cream in a snow storm.
hey grant, i don’t sense any nervousness in your posts, are you underestimating the french?
November 11th, 2009 at 10:12 pm
#395 Transformation: Insults, insults, insults…
November 11th, 2009 at 10:15 pm
#394 fsjakes: PDV a better coach by a country roll…you scrapped from the roll…
November 11th, 2009 at 10:16 pm
#395 Transformation: we will lose by 12…cant see us mentally getting there….nervous as all hell boet…but full of red wine…that helps.
November 11th, 2009 at 10:18 pm
#397 grant10: country mile….you struck from roll…sorry…lots of red wine…
But i cant stand jake…so dont mind me…
November 11th, 2009 at 10:25 pm
#399 grant10:
Had a good evening then, I presume?
November 11th, 2009 at 10:25 pm
#396 fsjakes: ag, fsjakes…i’m just yanking ur chain, chill out like ou David suggested…nothing on this blog is worth getting a hissy fit over…
November 11th, 2009 at 10:27 pm
#401 Transformation: it was a joke…
November 11th, 2009 at 10:29 pm
#400 David: always Dave…live it to the full….you know the drill!
November 11th, 2009 at 10:35 pm
#401 Transformation:
#402 fsjakes:
Are you two married?
November 11th, 2009 at 10:52 pm
Grant13,
I never liked him either, but he did win us the World Cup during extremely testing times. He deserves credit for that.
#404,
Looking at the daily conversations it seems like most of our bloggers have said their vows. Say what you want about RT, but there you can talk rugby in peace.
November 11th, 2009 at 10:53 pm
Whenever I feel like a bit of debate I come over here.
November 11th, 2009 at 11:05 pm
#406 Die_Valk:
Yes, that’s the difference. Personally, I prefer the open debate, however rough it becomes. Anyway, ‘night all.
The arguments will start in earnest tomorrow about how SARU will include the Kings.
November 11th, 2009 at 11:23 pm
I do think that WO and Adi are very close, but they are both miles behind JdV and JF.
Good night, probably going to dream about French front rows and Chabal running full-speed towards Adi. Perhaps he should do what he did against JLP and turn into a football-player for a few seconds, breaking his shoulder and then recover instantly.
Good luck to the Boks.
Prove me wrong, front row. And Kanko. And …
Ah *&^% it
November 12th, 2009 at 1:46 am
#336 cab:
remember to separate Fact from Fiction there Cab.
Fact = Afrikaaner refs and No/limited Visas to non-whites.
Fiction = “surely an offer of a farm in auckland…”
Dont assume every nation is as innately corrupt as those found in Africa.
November 12th, 2009 at 2:24 am
‘They don’t make any of those stupid mistakes they made in the past and which have perhaps cost them some victories.’
tell that to bl00dy Daniesaurus Rossouw who STILL cannot stop himslef form giving away penalties at stupid times when provoked.
November 12th, 2009 at 11:28 am
#409,
One can see why your country’s upstanding youth all go and work in Oz when one reads your comments.
November 12th, 2009 at 12:49 pm
#411 Die_Valk:
It raises the IQ of both countries.
November 12th, 2009 at 5:34 pm
#412,
Try being a little more original.
November 12th, 2009 at 7:46 pm
#413 Die_Valk:
Oh, like you ?