Melbourne clinches S15 spot
Melbourne has beaten the Southern Kings in the race for a Super Rugby franchise.
An Expert Determination Panel was asked by the Sanzar Executive Committee to decide on the location of the 15th Super Rugby team. The Experts were former World Cup-winning captain David Kirk and retired New Zealand High Court Judge, the Hon Barry Paterson QC.
In a statement, Sanzar said the key reasons for the Experts selecting Melbourne over the the Southern Kings from South Africa, were:
· The Experts commented that both applicants were able to point to excellent infrastructure support, and both provided sound business plans and financial forecasts, with the support of their National Unions, guaranteeing financial viability.
· The Southern Kings proposal was more advanced with regard to business and financial planning and organization structure and governance. The Southern Kings were also able to point to a strong rugby tradition, a large playing base and presented a stronger case than Melbourne as to their rugby readiness.
· These strengths of the Southern King’s Application did not, however, offset the benefits in geographical location and commercial value to Sanzar (both of which criteria the Experts were asked to place considerable weight on) that the Melbourne Application was able to deliver.
· The 15th Super Rugby team will play in the Australian Conference under the new Super Rugby competition format from 2011. This means they will play both home and away against the other four Australian Conference teams. As a result the Southern Kings would be required to make two crossings of the Indian Ocean in a season. The local derby aspect of matches in Australia, an important issue for generating attendances and broadcasting value, would also have been diluted and it would not have been possible to schedule at least two matches in each country each weekend. In addition having the team resident in South Africa introduces additional costs to SANZAR of around NZ$720,000 per annum.
· The Melbourne Application provided considerably greater commercial benefit to SANZAR than the Southern Kings Application. Evidence was provided that revenue from the sale of broadcasting rights to Australasian broadcasters would be reduced by US$15-20m over the course of a five year agreement should the 15th team be resident in South Africa, with little or no commensurate rise in the value of South African broadcasting revenue.
November 12th, 2009 at 8:15 am
Didn’t the Boks vs Tigers game show us against whom we should be playing franchise rugby? To late now, unfortunately.
November 12th, 2009 at 8:16 am
Springbok Team (Test caps in brackets): Team review:
15. Zane Kirchner – Needs to pull up his socks, not playing as he use to in Griekwas jersey, lacks confidence not his best season – I believe the best is still to come from him
14. JP Pietersen – Below par as well, can do allot better, needs to go and find work, go and watch a few games Paulse played & get standard back – Haven’t seen his best yet, still waiting on that 1 test
13. Jaque Fourie – best in the world – French will have no answer
12. Adi Jacobs – Tackle boetie tackle like you use to – still under par, but solid in mid field 11. Bryan Habana – Can do better
10. Morné Steyn – best in the world – can run more as confidence grow
9. Fourie du Preez – best in the world – just keep on doing what you’re doing
8. Ryan Kankowski – can dominate from behind the scrum – send Fourie away in there 22
7. Schalk Burger – Coming back to 2006- 07 form – need a solid performance from him
6. Heinrich Brüssow – Keep grinding you’re becoming the best in the world
5. Victor Matfield – Keep it tight you’re not an inside centre
4. Bakkies Botha – Keep the discipline
3. John Smit – captain – Best in the world
2. Bismarck du Plessis – Keep discipline need to play the ball not the man – still waiting on better performance from him
1.CJ can der Linde – not sure if he was selected to play, if so please get the front row sorted
November 12th, 2009 at 8:17 am
#100 sglazer: No matter how much you may wish otherwise, Oz and NZ will always stick together when the going gets tough. SA is simply the cash cow that they have to put up with in order to fill their ever-growing coffers. What does SA get in return for this? Think how much more money could be made by throwing SARU in with the major NH unions! Having said that it may destroy the Sprinboks as it is destroying England. Too much money means too many imported superstars to the detriment of developing local talent.
November 12th, 2009 at 8:18 am
The Super series is DEAD. There’s nothing super about it anymore. It’s boring. SA should have climbed out to get involved in a new series with NH teams.
November 12th, 2009 at 8:18 am
The French is over confident the Boks is not number 1 on the world for nothing – the French will loose with more than 20 points
November 12th, 2009 at 8:27 am
one thing I’d like to know is… where did SANZAR get their information before restructuring the S15 into three conferences saying that fans prefer to see local derbies? I for one far prefer to watch the NZ and Aus teams at Newlands than the local teams. We watch the local teams during the CC and (used to) in the S14…
HAs anyone worked out now how many foreign teams fans are likely to see at their (the fans) home ground? If your team makes it thru to the second round you will see four foreign teams playing. If your team doesn’t you’re not going to see any international players at all…?
How can this be a good thing for rugby fans? And how can this increase TV viewership as Andy Marinos said?
Unless I’m just being really stupid… (go for it!)
Can any of the really clever guys here explain this to me…
Would appreciate it…
November 12th, 2009 at 8:27 am
#105 Kwagga: And you say the French are over confident! There isn’t 20 points in this game, there isn’t even 10 points in it! Too many factors at play to be confident, tired players, not the best prep for wet NH conditions, partizan Toulouse crowd, tight stadium, no Spies or Juan, no JdV or Frans Steyn. This isn’t the same Bok team that waltzed the 3N or beat the Lions.
November 12th, 2009 at 8:33 am
#106 ufo:
I reckon you’re a 100% correct. Having 2 rounds of a glorified CC isn’t what the Super Series should be about. Basically, we’ve handed the Aussies a local competition and helped to foot the bill for it.
The Air NZ cup has also been faltering, so a regional competition would help them as well.
November 12th, 2009 at 8:37 am
#95 jonnymain:
I dont know so much…
Surely the IRB will have protocols in place that only allows for qualified people to represent international teams?
If SA played an illegal player there might be an issue – remember the whole thing with Chavanga?
November 12th, 2009 at 8:42 am
#108 David:
eish David… doesn’t look good…
David, I agree with you… it’s boosted the NZ and especially Aus domestic rugby but is going to hurt ours… So much for protecting the Currie Cup…
If anyone knows Marinos, please ask him where SANZAR got their intell..? How many bloggers here or any other site in SA, Aus, or NZ where asked their opinions…? I think we cover a fair cross-section of rugby supporters… but I bet you you won’t find a single supporter who was canvassed for his or her opinion…!!
This is just some marketing spin that SANZAR has come up with and us gullable fans just accept it…
November 12th, 2009 at 8:46 am
#109 PissAnt: Hmm. Not sure about that one. Hell the consequences could be severe if that is the case!
Is this not a result of a recent change in SA policy though? That being the case Beast was eligible under the old laws but not the new? Dunno, if they don’t sort this out it could be big trouble!
November 12th, 2009 at 8:47 am
#108 David:
David, did anyone ask your opinion or those of your members…?
November 12th, 2009 at 8:48 am
#108 David:
That said our Currie Cup is strong, and a strong Aus and NZ can surely just aid our rugby too since we play them most of any other team?
What worries me from the above is that the decision was not made in the interest of rugby.
Aus’ rugby has been spiralling downwards at a rate of knots, and I am sure I am not the only one who is sceptical about what the Melbourne franchise will do for them?
From where I sit, this was a last ditch, desperate effort to save union in Aus.
And make no mistake, I think union post RWC 2011 will be in serious trouble in NZ too.
November 12th, 2009 at 8:49 am
#111 jonnymain:
I don’t think the new ammendments affect the basic requirements for national representation. It is directed more at club or provincial sides and was introduced because of the influx of foreign soccer players into our clubs sides.
November 12th, 2009 at 8:49 am
#111 jonnymain:
Well either way, it is government interference within the sport and I am very interested to see if the IRB is going to respond either positvely or negatively to this…
Knowing them, they have as much balls as SARU.
November 12th, 2009 at 8:50 am
#108 David: Spoke to a Kiwi friend of mine (a Cantabrian) about the Air NZ Cup and the shocking attendances. He said that Kiwis value the Ranfurly Shield more than the Air NZ Cup itself, and that Super Rugby is the main focus now for the fans. Seems to be a case of too much rugby for the Kiwis, the expanded S15 will only exacerbate the problem for the provincial competition.
November 12th, 2009 at 8:51 am
#112 ufo:
If you’re referring to SARSU, it sadly doesn’t exist any longer.
November 12th, 2009 at 8:53 am
#117 David:
I was… oh hell David… sorry to hear that…
November 12th, 2009 at 8:56 am
#116 jonnymain:
I wonder whether NZ provincial rugby will go the same was as it has here in the case of the Sharks and Bulls, where the provincial union and regional franchise are effectively the same team?
November 12th, 2009 at 8:58 am
#99 ufo: All the Force did was show up how bad the Reds management is, as they performed better in their 2nd year with a bunch of Reds 2nd stringers.
I think there is enough players for a 5th team if managed properly.
I actually think the NZRU system of centrally contracted players would be much more effective to ensure all teams are competitive from the start.
Being a privately owned team, it may face the same issues that the Force did initially and SA Rugby do at the moment, that is the hording of players by bigger unions.
November 12th, 2009 at 8:58 am
#118 ufo:
Yeah, a Keo/RT situation.
November 12th, 2009 at 9:01 am
#120 DonutDunning:
That’s a major problem here and one of the reasons, I suspect why PdeV brought certain players on tour to get a look at them.
From what I’ve seen, though, the ARU excercises more control in the form of salary caps, than SARU do. Here, it’s just a free for all and buggar the national consequences.
November 12th, 2009 at 9:04 am
#106 ufo: I’ve had the same question running through my head.
While undoubtedly the biggest Brumbies game of the year is vs the Waratahs, the next biggest is actually the Crusaders and in the last couple of years, the Bulls have become 3rd.
I don’t want to lose these international rivalries just to watch the Brumbies beat the Reds over and over again.
November 12th, 2009 at 9:04 am
#119 David: Hard to say. I think the NZ provinces have a wider spread of talent than in SA and they also have this draft system which they utilise to share players who aren’t getting enough gametime at their franchise. If you look at the Bulls as an example, they have a surfeit of talent in most positions and players who could be doing a job for other SA franchises but will spend the majority of the S14 on the bench.
November 12th, 2009 at 9:07 am
#121 David:
You know David… it is a pity it didn’t work out… but… at least you got off your butt and tried something…
most of us here… me included… just sit on our butts and moan and… occassinally… don’t…
kudos to you… sincerely…
November 12th, 2009 at 9:11 am
#122 David: That is true. The unions can only offer a certain base amount to players ($AU150,000 i think maximum), everything else comes from ARU contracts, and more recently these stupid 3rd party deals.
Melbourne isn’t a known rugby city, but has quite a few strong rugby private schools and an amateur rugby base, as well as big corporate deals to get these players to the city.
They are in a much better position than Perth, and should have been given the franchise 5 years ago over them.
The CEO before Jon O’Neill didn’t have the balls to take on the AFL in its heartland, but failed to realise that Perth is just as AFL dominant as Melbourne.
November 12th, 2009 at 9:16 am
#126 DonutDunning:
I thought the Perth decision was more about giving the game a wider geographic spread. With the number of ex Saffas there, it shouldn’t take too long before they can start recruiting locally.
November 12th, 2009 at 9:18 am
#127 David: I’m not sure of the demographics, but I would bet that Melbourne has a fairly large number of Kiwis in exile, as does Sydney. I for one hope it works out for them but I have my doubts.
November 12th, 2009 at 9:26 am
#127 David: That was all spin.
Perth was the ’safe’ option.
The growth potential in Melbourne was much bigger, both player and money-wise, but they saw it as too much of a risk and instead went with Perth, where they thought they were at least guaranteed the fan base of the Saffa Expats.
The Victorian Rugby Union (VRU) in Melbourne may still only run amateur rugby, but has been around for 100 years.
Have a look at the Force’s homeground and you will see how big rugby is in Perth among the locals, they don’t even have a rectangular ground.
November 12th, 2009 at 9:30 am
#128 jonnymain: That is the fear, that the ship has already sailed.
) and when Aus Rugby’s growth was at its highest.
Melbourne should have been announced the team in 2004, right after Australia hosted an extremely successful World Cup (result aside
Now after five lean years for the Wallabies, interest in rugby outside the loyal supporters has waned.
I’m still hopeful though.
November 12th, 2009 at 9:30 am
Just to clarify things:
1. SANZAR’s only loyalty is to the Super Competition. The recent outcome is an example of that. No surprises there.
2. SARU must aggressively look after our interests. Not rely on others to do it for us.
3. The conference system is most beneficial for the Aus teams as they don’t have a regional competition of note.
4. The conference system is worse for us because the more Super Rugby, the more it erodes the CC. Playing Super rugby into October will definately have that effect.
5. The politicians care more about representation and ego than results. If you remember this one thing, all those ridiculous statement coming out of their mouths will be less surprising. (that’s why they re-hired the Bafana coach. He’s Brazillian and a WC winner and they want to associate with that (EGO). They don’t care that a local coach who knows the systems and players is likely to achieve more).
6. We live in a country where mediocrity at the highest level of officialdom is tolerated and ignored. To address these things would be admitting (from a politician’s viewpoint) that they too, are not up to standard.
7. The goal of a ruling party is not really to govern and serve, but rather to ensure that they are re-elected. All statements, policies, posturing etc, must be seen in this light. Hence the Julius factor.
8. Sport in this country is political. Which means that we as the fans (and by virtue of our support, the investors and “fund” – ers) have to make things happen. Don’t allow them to get away with mediocrity. Chellenge at every turn. That’s what patriotism is all about.
November 12th, 2009 at 9:32 am
#127 David: Maybe they just dont want a political based team in there. Do they really want to dance to the SA Governments pipes?
The Spears or the Kings dont even win the B division CC ion SA.
November 12th, 2009 at 9:43 am
#132 111BIG5:
I’m sorry, but I thought we were discussing the benefits of Melbourne over Perth and the effect on Aussie rugby.
November 12th, 2009 at 10:02 am
#133 David: O OK my wrong then.
But why do you always blame the others on the SARSU failure, i do not know the whole story but you sound so holy on this issue. Did you ever take some blame on that, are you the innocent one?
November 12th, 2009 at 10:06 am
#134 111BIG5:
I’ve never discussed the issue, here or anywhere else. So what the hell are you talking about?
November 12th, 2009 at 10:08 am
All in all a good decision however sad it is for the Kings.
Was never going to work having a South African side based in Australia for the conference matches.
Get the Kings into the S15 along with Cheetahs, Bulls, Sharks, Stormers. Lions players should play for the Bulls and Bulls should play at Loftus and Ellis. Keep the franchises for the Currie Cup but let the Lions back in so there are only 6 sides.
It’s a win win. The Kings have to start playing in the S15, its inevitable and will develop rugger in the E Cape no end.
November 12th, 2009 at 10:11 am
#108 David: That is spot on.
November 12th, 2009 at 11:11 am
#26 grant10: Biko? Is he a yarpie cyclist?
November 12th, 2009 at 11:13 am
#138 TheTackler: hey!!!
You a mad oke…but enjoy your stuff…very funny….but dont mess with Biko….MY HERO…
November 12th, 2009 at 11:34 am
Sanity at last.
Lets reverse the situatation.
Would SA admit an Australian Franchise into their Conference, at the expense of one of their own Teams?
To all the hand-wringers, whiners, Conspiracy Theorists, Xenophobes and Parnoids.
GET REAL.
November 12th, 2009 at 12:05 pm
#106 ufo:
It all started when RSA wanted 2 teams in the finals every year and sanzar said that must be done through qualifying. RSA was not satisfied so Oneill proposed top six qualify for the fianls. RSA wernt satisfied.
It seems like regardless RSA wanted 2 qualifiers irrespective of placement.
Then other formats were put to the table and the 3 conference format seemed to suit RSA although it may have interfered with the CC.
It was aus and NX trying to accomodate RSA but RSA played their cards too early. They got what they wanted with the qualifying now when it came down to a fifth franchise Aus came in and said…”you have got what you wanted this is what we want”..”you cant have everything!”
RSA shooting before the bullet has been loaded!
November 12th, 2009 at 12:14 pm
#133 David:
The effect of having the cheetahs in s14…cellar dwellers.
The Force – have been competitive and knocking on the door of the finals.
RSA currently has 3 poor teams in S14 and Aus has one. I am talking about consistently.
November 12th, 2009 at 12:31 pm
#106 ufo:
I think the conference system is a very poor decision. A top six qualifier in the old format would have been much better.
Or one year split half way and 8 teams play each other and the other 7 have their own group and top two team from each qualify for semis.
At least not many games and fully charged affairs due to players being somewhat fresh.
November 12th, 2009 at 12:33 pm
SA can support 4 franchises, Australia 3 at most. Expansion has diluted the player pool to the detriment of the competition. I could be wrong but this latest franchise will only serve to make this problem worse.
November 12th, 2009 at 1:54 pm
#113 PissAnt:
Yes. The hosting of a RWC in your country usually does immediately lead to the sports loss in popularity….
What you hope and what you get and 2 different things, Pissant.
#143 wallabie.:
The Conference system came about simply due to the SARU holding their SANZAR partners over a barrell by insisting that they should be guaranteed playoff spots and, therefore, network coverage. They wanted to host the big games, not hope for 1 to be involved and then usually play away from home.
So Aus & NZ keeled over and granted them their guarantee. And thats how we got in this mess.
November 13th, 2009 at 3:52 am
SANZAR is a kiwi aussie joke. South Africa should never be here. We provide the cash but get left behind. The winners are aussie rugby, which is dying, saffas and islanders that want to leave.
We only start winning the S14 when a Saffa sponsor came on board. We had a leading kiwi ref with an e-mail telling the other SANZAR refs how to screw South Africa. We have a leading Aussie ref, Dicko, who every time any saffas are involved rorts us. This an embarassment for South Africa.
We want consistant refeering. Look at all the spear tackles that were missed in front of the refs but every time we commit an offence out comes the card!
S14 is one sided with teams like the Cheetahs with a neutral ref will kill most aussie sides.
We should be in Europe where the money is, and leave SANZAR behind.
November 13th, 2009 at 6:02 am
#146 KevinRack:”We should be in Europe where the money is, and leave SANZAR behind.”
So what do you want? No Trinations,
No Super 14 or 15,
A place in the 6 nations (now to be 7 nations)…
No year end tours because it would be pointless.
To stand aside and watch Australian rugby struggle because they compete against other codes.
Have you thought your proposal through carefully?????
Making a 5th team an Australian team is the best thing for SA rugby. Look at the bun fight above amongst the Saffas about player theft within your own conference!! Now you suggest a 6th team will improve things!! And if you don’t get it you will take your bat and ball and go north. Tell me, just who is the child here?
The decision is made. Australia has more players than given credit for, the domestic and club comps are still very good, it just they have never been able to get a provincial team going. Now it will happen and SH rugby will be all the better for it. If they poach some SA talent, and they turn out to be a find, that’s great they are still available for Bok selection.
Please enough of the persecution complex.
May I suggest a more pragmatic approach
November 13th, 2009 at 1:21 pm
#146 KevinRack:
Off you go then you whining whinging malcontented insufferably persecuted little victim. Nothing is yours as of Right, you have to go out there and earn it first.
#147 muffy:
Leave him be. He wants to play Italian club sides every weak, he wants his International opponents to be sides he can guarantee increased Win-stats so that his puffed-up little ego can run laps around the in-goal area and claim vicarious heroism on the back of others achievements.