‘Bully’ Boks won’t hold back
John Smit says French accusations of thuggery won’t stop the Springboks from favouring a belligerent approach.
The Boks received a chilly welcome on Wednesday, torrential rain pelting at tired bodies and French journalists unleashing a wave of criticism from the outset.
The local media seem to have picked up where the British and Irish whingers left off, taking their cues from French coach Marc Lievremont and loose forward Imanol Harinordoquy on the subject of robust play.
Lievremont told the media earlier in the week that the Boks don’t always play within the laws, a sentiment echoed by Harinordoquy. At a welcome press conference at Toulouse’s House of Rugby, Smit and Peter de Villiers were made to feel anything but welcome. The French pressmen addressed the Boks as the Butcher Boys of world rugby, something that shocked the South African captain.
‘It caught me completely by surprise,’ Smit told keo.co.za. ‘You don’t ever hear that from the Aussie or New Zealand guys during the Tri-Nations. We play as hard as we can, and most teams respect us for it.
‘We brought that physicality into the Lions series. You need to be more physical than the other side to win a Test match, and you can see in matches where we lost, we were perhaps not as physical.’
The Boks won the second Test of that Lions series, and rather than focus on the victory, the travelling journos attacked the Boks for their over-the top belligerence. Schalk Burger was yellow carded in this fixture for what was initially believed to be eye-gouging (and later confirmed as reckless play) while Bakkies Botha was cited for a (textbook) clearance at ruck time. The Boks have always enjoyed a physical reputation, but these incidences have created a misconception.
‘We’ve never been a side to hit and kick and bite,’ said Smit, ’so I don’t think you can call us a dirty team. Bakkies wasn’t in the wrong when he cleared that ruck, and Schalk was later cleared of gouging. But I can understand how those two instances may have spurred on this idea.
‘Nevertheless, we will try to be as physical as possible this Saturday.’
Smit was involved in the planning for a November tour that will sees the Boks playing three Tests in as many weeks. They play the French on Friday, but have strangely arrived in Toulouse just two days before kickoff.
The squad trained in Johannesburg earlier this week in completely different conditions to those experienced in Toulouse. The team arrived on Wednesday and spent 30 minutes doing various stretching exercises in pelting rain and a seven-degrees temperature.
‘We decided that we wanted to spend a little more time with our families before the tour. That was one of many reasons for arriving late,’ said Smit. ‘We also wanted to be fresh for the game on Friday and felt it would be better to come up a bit later.
‘We employed the same plan when we went to Perth in the Tri-Nations, and it worked on that occasion. We believe this plan will benefit us this Friday.
Smit reiterated that he is not concerned about the conditions.
‘If you want to be playing anywhere in France at this time of year, it may as well be in the south. It’s not too cold and it probably won’t rain that hard. I remember in 2005 they were clearing snow from that pitch in Paris, so compared to that, it shouldn’t be too bad.’
By Jon Cardinelli, in Toulouse
November 11th, 2009 at 8:42 pm
Dragons gonna bully the french!!
November 11th, 2009 at 8:49 pm
Tell the frogs to look in the book. who is number 1 in the world ?
Bunch of soft *****
November 11th, 2009 at 8:54 pm
Go Bokke !
November 11th, 2009 at 8:55 pm
these french journalists are lucky they get pdv now that he has mellowed out, he would’ve given them hell if it was last year, they’re would’ve been seeking the counsel of voltaire to decipher his sayings.
November 11th, 2009 at 8:57 pm
#2 Zulushark: agree 100%.
They need to put on their tutus and go for ballet lessons!!!
November 11th, 2009 at 9:01 pm
#5 ossewa:
Once famous oke said “The tallest tree always catchs the wind”.
I actually think the frogs are scared and the media are trying to phsyc their players up to front up
November 11th, 2009 at 9:06 pm
Bully Bok’s gonna get klapped from Toulouse into next week. Groot klap coming unless Frogs klap themselves.
Looks like its shaping up into a physical intimidation psyche out. So maybe Frenchies take their eyes off the ball and try play the man in which case it will work to our favor then we probably beat them. If on the other hand they concentrate on their strengths and creativity and run those big loosie’s and centers straight at our defence line, they could cause havoc.
This possibly one of the better Bok sides in history but its also a top notch French outfit, so the Battle of Toulouse is going to by one almighty showdown Friday night.
November 11th, 2009 at 9:23 pm
#7 skopskiet: for once in ur life show some patriotism!!!!!!!!!!!!
November 11th, 2009 at 9:28 pm
Bokke going to klap these frogs, dont matter what they do.
Their worst mistake was the pre-match stone throwing, the Bokke are going to be up for this.
November 11th, 2009 at 9:30 pm
Hang on a minute…….so now its the Boks accusing the French of thuggery in return to allegations from the French right ?
and the Boks are now taking the Moral Pedestal, right ?
“We’ve never been a side to hit and kick and bite,’ said Smit, ’so I don’t think you can call us a dirty team. Bakkies wasn’t in the wrong when he cleared that ruck, and Schalk was later cleared of gouging. But I can understand how those two instances may have spurred on this idea. Nevertheless, we will try to be as physical as possible this Saturday.”
Is there no end to this duplicity ?!
disgraceful arrogance.
November 11th, 2009 at 9:37 pm
French will prob want to play very quickly and do unusual things.
Boks concentration will have to be 100% for 85 min.
The introduction of a Morne Steyn into the Bok setup helps a lot. He plays, albeit in a lesser way, a similar role to what Carter played for Kiwis.
They apply the pressure and he slots the penalties.
Im asking for a 100% team effort from the Boks.
November 11th, 2009 at 9:37 pm
Froggies made the error of insinuating thuggery and heaping insult, now its a war, a gauntlet of the battle of the brave.
In the psychological stakes its standing at adv SA. Froggies shot themselves in the foot with the media psyche out, wrong call Messr Harinordoquy, now you gonna have to live up to your bravado.
Battle of Toulouse battle lines been drawn. Hope Kanko got the balls for it. Brussow, Schalk, Bakkies, Bismark gonna be chomping at the bit.
November 11th, 2009 at 9:42 pm
Patriotism, ha, what these poor fakers know about patriotism I wonder, anything at all?
False illusions of grandeur that they know plenty about, but patriotism not too much at all.
November 11th, 2009 at 9:43 pm
Waka, your ABs lost to both the boks and the french. Please show the necessary respect on this thread.
November 11th, 2009 at 9:48 pm
Bravo een, Bravo een, kom in oor!
November 11th, 2009 at 9:50 pm
dont care about patriotism, but i want the Bokke to win and think they are going to and have said as much, without vascillating on the fence with ifs and buts and psycholigical nuts.
November 11th, 2009 at 9:51 pm
charlie alpha bravo twee. . oor
November 11th, 2009 at 9:53 pm
just moer then boks…bloody big mouthed frogs pissing me off !
November 11th, 2009 at 9:53 pm
#14 Slappes: wakanathan & “respect” don’t go together like grant10 & jsmit is a tighthead…forget it…
November 11th, 2009 at 9:57 pm
#19 Transformation: J Smit not a tightheads ***!!
November 11th, 2009 at 9:57 pm
Stuur Bravo twee!
November 11th, 2009 at 9:57 pm
Frogs will target Zane Kirchener but he will be solid.
It will be different for Zane who played in dirt trackers and the time when 10 changes were made.
He now walks into an established setup and once they start kicking in he will fit in smoothly.
November 11th, 2009 at 9:58 pm
well I’m reasonably neutral in this issue, let the team that deserves the victory go out and claim it. It usually boils down to commitment and intent. If every effort is directed with sincerity and honor, usually the universe rewards accordingly.
He who put his best foot forward to all intents and purposes reap’s his intended reward. Go prince valiant, fortune usually favors the brave.
November 11th, 2009 at 9:59 pm
Matfield to rule the air in Toulouse……
November 11th, 2009 at 10:00 pm
Transie
, hiyas Grant!
November 11th, 2009 at 10:01 pm
The bok front row as it stands with beast, smit and bissie will boss the frenchies.
November 11th, 2009 at 10:03 pm
#25 Slappes: hi boet…i am pissed off with these Frenchies man….the whole week crying like girls….back at the ranch these buggers the vuil gattest of the whole lot….
Just hope we learned to scrum a bit….or we gonna get on our moer
November 11th, 2009 at 10:03 pm
BLOODY WELSH SHOWED THE ALL BLACKS NO RESPECT DURING THE HAKA.
November 11th, 2009 at 10:04 pm
#26 Wezwp: LOL….ja…and goldilocks married poppa bear!
November 11th, 2009 at 10:04 pm
Grant, btw Clifton aint got nothing on Blouberg when it comes to celebs. Robbie Wessels has moved in.
November 11th, 2009 at 10:05 pm
#28 Wezwp: screw the kiwis man….they show us no respect ever!
November 11th, 2009 at 10:05 pm
Whatever happened isaac ross? shame he shouldv joined the all blacks on tour.
November 11th, 2009 at 10:05 pm
#28 Wezwp: I was there, what did I miss??
Why should they anyway??
November 11th, 2009 at 10:05 pm
#30 Slappes: can he play tighthead??
November 11th, 2009 at 10:06 pm
#31 grant10: Snap!!
November 11th, 2009 at 10:07 pm
The psycho see saw swings between honor and bravado. Its such a fine line between those two impostors that its only when focussed on the task at hand that the gladiator can hone his anger and aggression towards his goal.
Now its all about focus, if they going to focus on the man and the bully factor or the proposed thuggery, then their focus is lost, if they keep their minds fixed on the task at hand, on the ball, cross the try line or slot the goals, thats all thats gonna count at the final whistle, not who out muscled or out bullied who.
November 11th, 2009 at 10:07 pm
my hands are black and blue from moering a drum….oke says its great for frustration….so i thought of that wally ratel msiur brussow and moered the **** out the drum!!
November 11th, 2009 at 10:08 pm
ADI
will gluide through their defense like a hot knife through butter. Just watch on friday night grant, our front row will destroy them.
November 11th, 2009 at 10:08 pm
Grant, yeah the frogs are digging their own grave. Boks just neutralise their pack and Morne will do the rest.
November 11th, 2009 at 10:11 pm
We all know smit cant last the 80mins though. With cj back in the fold we should be ok in that department.
November 11th, 2009 at 10:11 pm
bakkies must hone his klap on harindokay, end of.
poepalle.
November 11th, 2009 at 10:11 pm
#38 Wezwp: Adi will be fine….not sure about the front row…lets rather wait and hope for the best…pap snoek scrummers…
#39 Slappes: yeah …agree
November 11th, 2009 at 10:13 pm
The southern hemisphere will make it a clean sweep of victories against these european whingers.
November 11th, 2009 at 10:13 pm
#39 Slappes: Who will be left standing for the Sarries match?
Looks like I have a mate who wants to make it a girls ‘Nite Out’ at Wembley on Tuesday!!
Don’t really want to watch just ‘Dirt Trackers’ tho (no offence)!!!
November 11th, 2009 at 10:14 pm
#33 carol: And I will be there for the Argentina game!
November 11th, 2009 at 10:14 pm
Poor England…… Will they ever reach the standards of 2003..
November 11th, 2009 at 10:15 pm
Grant,
dont think Robbie can scrum but he can do a mean leeuloop.
November 11th, 2009 at 10:16 pm
#37 grant10: maybe you should try the other (softer) side!!
November 11th, 2009 at 10:18 pm
This is just a step further away from the traditional French rugby. They used to avoid the trash talk of rugby, leaving if for their bath shy cousins accross the channel. They also used to play unpredictable rugby, sometimes woeful, sometimes sublime.
They now are talking like the Welsh & playing crashball rugby like the poms. They have a couple of good backs that will be good on a counter attack, but not champagne rugby, they are now a route 1 team from phase play.
At least they don’t veil their talking, they have almost invited the boks to a brawl with all this talk.
For me, I would rather say all this stuff after the game. Look at the Welsh, they were too busy kicking 7 bells out of the AB aura last Saturday & the 15 players danced passed them again.
The eyes should always remain on the prize.
November 11th, 2009 at 10:18 pm
I still maintain. Alan wynn Jones, gareth cooper, james hook and shane williams are world class. Why they replacing peel with cooper i dnt knw. ……..And o yes jamie roberts, that man oozes class.
November 11th, 2009 at 10:20 pm
Carol, i think it will be the same bunch of dirty trackers as last week. Go watch the game, Saracens have a few boks as well!
November 11th, 2009 at 10:20 pm
#47 Slappes: if he can leeuloop he will fit in there at blouberg…although the south easter may affect his stepping!
November 11th, 2009 at 10:21 pm
#45 scar: All the way from the West Country……we have Aussie tickets not Argie ones.
Hope Wales at least beat the Argies!!
Have a great time…..!!
November 11th, 2009 at 10:21 pm
klap klap slap slap crunch crunch smack smack skop skop, hope Barnes got hair on his teeth and eyes in the back of his head, the two dirtyiest teams on the planet going to try f.k each other up Friday night.
November 11th, 2009 at 10:22 pm
#41 cab: See if he can run over his sternum again. For me I always had the belief if I don’t want my sternum broken, I won’t put it in the way of a 118kg marauding Sefrican
November 11th, 2009 at 10:22 pm
#50 Wezwp: I completely agree, and you have to add that the have a pretty good front row as well!
November 11th, 2009 at 10:22 pm
#49 The Bill: Have you ever stood in a ski lift with a bunch of Frenchmen early in the morning….watch what you say about the ‘bath shy’!!
November 11th, 2009 at 10:23 pm
and the flaming irish waiting at 82000 croke park….schalk may need a bullet proof vest……
Lekker man…luv it….
November 11th, 2009 at 10:24 pm
I You Tubed ‘Leeuloop’, I did feel a bit queasy afterwards!! Not big in England!!
November 11th, 2009 at 10:24 pm
#53 carol: All that I know is that I will have shirt that reads: “‘r Dde African” – hopefully it translates into “the South African”!
November 11th, 2009 at 10:24 pm
Grant, lol yeah our Robbies got the moves!
November 11th, 2009 at 10:24 pm
When i hear the names BAkkies, matfield, fourie du preez, morne steyn , bryan habana, schalkie, brussouw, john smit, beast, bismarck and adi. Those names leaves me with a smile on my face for friday.
November 11th, 2009 at 10:25 pm
Litre of water and bed….
Bloody drumming…made me far too thirsty…..
Hate to say it….Frogs by 12,,,,,
and with that ….
Outta here
November 11th, 2009 at 10:26 pm
#49 The Bill:
yeah big whingers as well, perhaps no-one’s been able to understand them before.
they are actually stupid, they should have just surprised the Boks like they usually do, but they’ve actually called it on, i was worried the Springboks would be laxidasical, but now they going to come out blazing.
November 11th, 2009 at 10:27 pm
Why were the sports teams wearing red badges over the weekend CAROL?
November 11th, 2009 at 10:28 pm
#57 carol: Nope, can’t say I have. I normally time my first run to avoid those doing the walk of shame…
I am still pretty sure the Poms save the most soap, just as the French blokes use the most perfume!
November 11th, 2009 at 10:28 pm
Bokke by 20.
November 11th, 2009 at 10:29 pm
FRANCE 27 BOKKE 36
November 11th, 2009 at 10:30 pm
Carol,
yeah he is our king of dance. Btw Grant does a mean version on the beach to impress the girls. He should maybe not do it in his speedo though.
November 11th, 2009 at 10:32 pm
Leonard is a real average scrumhalf. The all blacks should stick to Cowan.
November 11th, 2009 at 10:33 pm
#60 scar: That would be lost on me!!
November 11th, 2009 at 10:36 pm
#63 grant10: Night Grant….It will seem better in the morning!!
#65 Wezwp: Wes, we wear red poppies in the weeks leading up today 11th November our Rememberance Day for fallen troops in the WW1 & II and also in recent conflicts. Hence the two minutes silence observed before kick off!
November 11th, 2009 at 10:38 pm
#44 carol:
Should be well worth it! Great crowd expected, along with some live entertainment from Bok van Blerk and Francois Pienaar as the MC.
November 11th, 2009 at 10:39 pm
#66 The Bill: Respect- don’t know if I have EVER managed to be first on the slope!! Too busy in the shower I suppose!!
#69 Slappes: Do you think the London Keo Boys will Leoloop for me at the Barbarians game? I could always ask!!
Outta Here, say Hi to Robzim if he calls!!
November 11th, 2009 at 10:40 pm
Cheers all
November 11th, 2009 at 10:40 pm
#73 UKBokSupporter: It is sounding more interesting moment by moment!! Cheers…..!!!
November 11th, 2009 at 10:56 pm
i was unaware of the fact that the French were such whingers. they’re complaining before the game has even started… disappointing.
November 11th, 2009 at 11:00 pm
‘Of course, they play inside the rules, they don’t stamp on you or knee you because now if you do that it’s a yellow card or even a red card.’
This is actually what Harinordoquy said as reported by this website. Be consistent guys. Really shoddy work this.
November 11th, 2009 at 11:02 pm
Am I missing something here, is it true that Friday’s game won’t be shown in the UK? Can’t see Sky or BBC listing it…
November 11th, 2009 at 11:07 pm
Evening all…
Anyone know a few pubs in London that will definitely be showing the game?
November 11th, 2009 at 11:08 pm
#79 UKBokSupporter: hmm that is strange. you’ve got sky so maybe check around the French channels, it know France 1 (or France 2) will be showing it.
November 11th, 2009 at 11:09 pm
#79 UKBokSupporter: look in myp2p.eu in Friday afternoon, then you’ll see what opportunities are to watch it online.
French TV 2 will broadcast it, so probably some bars in UK with satellite dish should get it.
November 11th, 2009 at 11:11 pm
And Frogs by 10 or so.
November 11th, 2009 at 11:14 pm
“Talk are cheap, money buys the whisky” ~ so said PdV
November 11th, 2009 at 11:17 pm
#78 ad_oz:
do you have the footage of Harinordoquy punching Horwil in the face like a punch bag?
Only happened last June
November 11th, 2009 at 11:27 pm
#85 Hondo: urghh my link got moderated. go to youtube and search for “James Horwill fight comments” and there’s a pretty decent vid of the incident.
November 11th, 2009 at 11:49 pm
@ 79. UKBokSupporter
It’s showing in Ireland (I can’t believe my luck!) on RTE 2 from 7:30pm, if that’s avaialable to you…
November 12th, 2009 at 12:23 am
Quote from John Smit above,
“Nevertheless, we should try to be as physical as we can this Saturday”!!
What is happening on Saturday?
We need to know?
November 12th, 2009 at 12:42 am
#14 Slappes:
Bakkies got 2 weeks suspension from IRB. Upheld on appeal. And Smit and SARU fined by IRB.
Smit says ‘Bakkies did nothing wrong’….and youre telling ME to show some necessary respect ?!
arrogance, no less.
November 12th, 2009 at 12:52 am
No wonder, when it gets supported by ‘journalism’ as supportive as this cr@p
“Schalk Burger was yellow carded in this fixture for what was INITIALLY believed to be eye-gouging (and later confirmed as reckless play) while Bakkies Botha was cited for a (TEXTBOOK) clearance at ruck time. The Boks have always enjoyed a physical reputation, but these incidences have created a MISCONCEPTION.”
Oh, it was all an accident. It never really happened. What you read about was fictional. Your own eyes deceived you. Visibility wasnt very clear that day. Look in to my eyesssssssssssssssssss.
In ONE match, Burger GOUGED in the FIRST MINUTE. Botha was SUSPENDED for FOUL PLAY.
and thats someones idea of a ‘misconception’ ???!!!!
Respect, my ***.
November 12th, 2009 at 1:15 am
#90 WakaNathan: waka the rest of the civilised world is in bed , u might wanna try it u’re clearly very sleepy
November 12th, 2009 at 1:24 am
#91 mbaxman93:
whats your excuse ?
November 12th, 2009 at 2:32 am
Mark my words ALL YOU KIWI SUPPORTERS. The 2011 RWC is going to be the tournament of the old Sporting Cockerel…
I reckon France will be serious contenders next RWC.
The rdomestic rugby is going from strength to strength, their team is young and quite settled, and will have lots of experience by then, and they have the biggest pool of player reserves to pull from.
It is quite surprisingthat they have not won at least one RWC before. This fact me cause them to focus a little (their main achilles heel) for teh next.
And if they can beat SA now, they will havea track record to give them confidence – a win in NZ , a win in SA, and a win at home against the RWC champs.
KEO: Put this prediction somewhere that you can find it easily – and put a few bob on the French at the tattersalls now.
November 12th, 2009 at 3:46 am
#93 SjamBok: Hey dude, chill out.
November 12th, 2009 at 3:48 am
#92 WakaNathan: Sorry Sjammie, It was actually aimed at Waka.
November 12th, 2009 at 4:44 am
yes Sjambok I also noted somewhere recently that my money would be on a Nz or Sa vs France final in WC 2011 with France overdue a Wc win.
In 87 they took Nz to the wire at home with Serge Blanco and Phillipe Sella running some plays from behind their own try line. In 95 they actually beat SA in the rain in Durban semi only to be denied a certain try under the sticks by gold watch ref Bevan. And in 99 they pulled off the upset of upsets in France in the semi’s knocking out favourites Nz only to capitulate to Aus in the final.
So I reckon all things being equal its very much on the cards that their build up dictates that their luck might just be on the up n up for Wc 2011 in less than 2 years from now.
November 12th, 2009 at 5:51 am
#93 SjamBok:
the french are most unpredictable side in the world. Able to destroy Boks by 40pts on their day or lose by the same margin on a bad day.
its crazyy.
November 12th, 2009 at 6:09 am
#90 WakaNathan:
Hey doos, you need to move on from Bakkies and Schaulk! Most are tired of you constant bagging of these and other Boks. If you don’t like Saffa’s and the way we love and play our footie then log on elsewhere!
Mamparra!
November 12th, 2009 at 6:43 am
Beast is out of Bok side as he’s not an SA citizen.
November 12th, 2009 at 7:02 am
#99 David:
November 12th, 2009 at 7:07 am
#99 David: David…where you reading this?
November 12th, 2009 at 7:32 am
Thank goodness the French media is giving the boks some motivation.
November 12th, 2009 at 7:34 am
#97 greatest13gerber:
The record doesn’t support your thesis, I can see where the cliché came from
most of the tests between the Frogs and the Boks decided by 5-11 points, only in 1997 the Boks won by more than 40 points.
November 12th, 2009 at 7:37 am
#101 grant10:
It was a hoax circulated in SA last week
November 12th, 2009 at 7:41 am
#104 Hondo:
check out the timesalive website.
November 12th, 2009 at 7:53 am
Sorry “timeslive”.
November 12th, 2009 at 7:54 am
Well coming from the French this is a bit rich as they are arguably the dirtiest team historically in world rugby! Should be tasty!
November 12th, 2009 at 7:57 am
#106 David:
Read this:
Own Correspondent
November 10 2009 at 05:43PM
Tendai ‘Beast’ Mtawarira has been cleared to tour with the Springbok squad following discussions between the South African Rugby Union (Saru) and the Sports Ministry.
Saru was alerted to clauses in the National Sport & Recreation Amendment Act, 2007, which needed to be completed before Zimbabwean-born Mtawarira’s place in the end-of-year tour squad could be confirmed.
“We are delighted with the news after discovering this problem during the week,” said Saru president Oregan Hoskins.
“The government has been very helpful in expediting the completion of the necessary protocols and we’re all relieved that Beast will be available for selection for the Springboks against France in Toulouse on Friday.”
The protocol revolved around clause 6(3) of the National Sport and Recreation Amendment Act of 2007, which requires an explanation to the Minister of Sport for the selection of non-South African nationals. – Sapa
November 12th, 2009 at 8:01 am
It’s certainly there on The Times (SA) website…
November 12th, 2009 at 8:02 am
Tendai “Beast” Mtawarira is out of the Springbok team because he is not a South African national – even though he has already played 15 Tests in the green and gold.
The SA Rugby Union (Saru) had recently asked sport minister Makhenkesi Stofile to help expedite the Zimbabwe-born prop’s South African citizenship, but in a statement on Wednesday night Stofile’s ministry accused the union of poor administration.
“This request to have the Minister use his position to have the process of securing permanent residence and subsequently, citizenship expedited ahead of the year end tour in Europe, has exposed our sport administrators’ clear disrespect or lack of understanding of our laws,” the ministry said.
“Talented as he is, Tendai, like all foreign nationals plying their trade in South Africa, is bound by the laws of this country. The migration laws of our country are clear on issues relating to permanent residence and citizenship. We expect our sport administrators to understand and respect legislation that regulate their business. None of the athletes, sport codes, or federations can be bigger than the country.”
Mtawarira, who is in France with the Bok team, was one of the stars of the side that beat the touring British Lions earlier this year.
“While Tendai is a live wire on the field of play, the question is whether it is, in the first place, justifiable to say he has scarce skills – the rationale that would have enabled him to obtain the current work permit. If we go the route our rugby administrators are requesting us to take, and facilitate the fast-tracking of Tendai’s citizenship, what would this say to all rugby players in our country? We cannot as a
government department responsible for sport and recreation in this country, afford to insult our players like this.
“The principle here is clear: Only citizens of our country can play for our National team, irrespective of the sport code. Therefore, no foreign national can play for any of our national teams, no matter how
outstanding they may be. If any player in any code is to become a South African citizen, this has to be done within the legal framework of our country.
“Federations, provinces and clubs, are more than welcome to approach us for advice on similar issues, instead of trying to slip a player through the legal framework.”
November 12th, 2009 at 8:09 am
these are just mind games as the french are going to come full frontal at us
November 12th, 2009 at 8:32 am
First Bully Boys for the Bulls now Bully Boks… I think you need to come up with better adjectives…
November 12th, 2009 at 8:45 am
I can’t remember when last I was so amped to give these soft-**** pansy-assed crybaby frogs an ***-whipping that they’ll remember. It’s so undignified for a rugby team (and it’s media) to whinge like teenage girls bitching about boyfriend-stealers prior to a test match. It’s not what men do. You’ll NEVER see a Bok player, coach etc. behave like this. It’s just so self-castrating. I cringe for them. And for what Bakkies has planned.
November 12th, 2009 at 9:00 am
#113 katman: Whilst I’m laughing at your first sentence, I can’t agree that the Boks have never used the media to whinge about the opposition. It’s a tactic used to draw the refs attention to the oppositions strengths so he analyses them more closely. Like Richie McCaw at the breakdown or George Smith, or the illegal scrumming of other nations. I’ve heard Bok representatives mention these things in the build up to games before.
November 12th, 2009 at 9:05 am
#114 jonnymain: True, but for me there’s a real difference between pointing out technicalities of law infringements and having a good old cry about how badly someone might hurt them.
November 12th, 2009 at 9:13 am
#115 katman: The French aren’t afraid of the rough stuff. It’s just to draw attention to the physical strengths of the Bok gameplan. No other side has the same physicality as the Boks, which is why you don’t hear the Boks whingeing about being beaten up by the opposition!
November 12th, 2009 at 9:19 am
#110 ufo:
that is a blog entry on timeslive – not a news report
November 12th, 2009 at 9:21 am
Jon Smit should have just thanked the frogs for complementing his team and moved on. Since when has being physical been a bad thing in rugby.
November 12th, 2009 at 9:25 am
#117 charo:
It was written by a journalist, though.
November 12th, 2009 at 9:40 am
I love the “textbook” comment about Bakkies rucking style – go big man
November 12th, 2009 at 9:46 am
“Lievremont told the media earlier in the weak that the Boks”
JC – weak???
November 12th, 2009 at 9:53 am
#10 WakaNathan: Pot calling the kettle black??
Seem to recall thrre AB players being banned for foul play, and that’s just in the last two matches, and that’s not counting the incidents where AB players should have been cited, but were strangely mollycoddled!!
No probs, it makes us stronger!!
Go Bokke, play to your strengths, and score big tomorow!!
November 12th, 2009 at 9:57 am
waka
I normally dont get involved in this ‘who’s got the biggest d*ck ‘ contest which is permanently on the go here on site, but I must ask you.
What exactly is your problem, why do you continually cling to the odd stupid/idiotic comment from a bok fan, repeating it over and over and over ad nauseum?
Surely you realize that every country has these types, its the human condition. Have a lil peek into Silverfern for a few more examples.
It just makes you look like you are jealous of the bok success of late.
Maybe I’m wrong, so thats why I’m asking, please enlighten me.
November 12th, 2009 at 10:03 am
#116 jonnymain: Agree 100%
Now they calling us Butcher Boks/Our culture is to play to hurt!! They are really sounding like a bunch of cry babies there. French are physical too. Maybe trying to get on the refs side or something.
Go get em Bokke.
November 12th, 2009 at 10:09 am
#110 ufo: Now what is this all about again? Thought that it had all been sorted. That what I heard on SABC or do they just always get it wrong?
He has lived in this country for over 4 years. Also Beasts Parents live in Durban. He bought them a house.
He has paid tax here on his earnings too. They are just looking again to make trouble. Government should keep out of our sport.
How come in other countries you just live there 3 years and are allowed to play for a team? That rule applies for all countries. Ag, we have to live with this nonsense day in day out in this country. Many getting fed up and will leave. It is not just in sport but everything else.
November 12th, 2009 at 10:11 am
#117 charo: Thanks Charo, Thought it had been sorted out. Then thought no man, they starting nonsense again. Phew!! pleased it is fine. Go the BEAST. Love seeing him play.
November 12th, 2009 at 10:31 am
Has Tendai ‘The Beast’ Mtawarira got the boot?
Nov 12, 2009 9:10 AM | By Staff reporter
Although prop Tendai ‘The Beast’ Mtawarira has been named in the Springbok team to face France on Friday night, a statement by the Ministry of Sport indicates that Mtawarira is still ineligible to play in the green and gold.
Zimbabwean-born Mtawarira has already played 19 Tests in the green and gold and was a key player in the Springboks’ historic series victory over the British and Irish Lions.
Times LIVE has been unable to get comment from the SA Rugby Union or any further comment from the Ministry of Sport and Recreation.
The Springboks play France in Toulouse on Friday night (kick-off: 9.45pm SA time).
Read the media statement released by the Ministry of Sport and Recreation regarding Tendai “The Beast” Mtawarira’s inclusion in the Springbok rugby team and decide for yourself (key paragraphs underlined for emphasis).
SUBJECT: MINISTRY OF SPORT & RECREATION COMMENT ON TENDAI MTAWARIRA’s INCLUSION IN THE SOUTH AFRICAN RUGBY TEAM
1. SA Rugby has requested the Minister of Sport & Recreation SA, Rev Dr Makhenkesi Stofile to intervene in securing South African citizenship for Tendai “The Beast” Mtawarira, a Zimbabwean national, who plays professional rugby in South Africa.
2. This request to have the Minister use his position to have the process of securing permanent residence and subsequently, citizenship expedited ahead of the year end tour in Europe, has exposed our Sport administrators’ clear disrespect or lack of understanding of our laws.
3. Talented as he is, Tendai, like all foreign nationals plying their trade in South Africa, is bound by the laws of this country. The migration laws of our country are clear on issues relating to permanent residence and citizenship. We expect our sport administrators to understand and respect legislation that regulate their business. None of the athletes, sport codes, or Federations can be bigger than the country.
4. While Tendai is a live wire on the field of play, the question is whether it is, in the first place, justifiable to say he has scarce skills – the rationale that would have enabled him to obtain the current work permit. If we go the route our Rugby administrators are requesting us to take, and facilitate the fastracking of Tendai’s citizenship, what would this say to all rugby players in our country? We cannot as a Government Department responsible for sport and recreation in this country, afford to insult our players like this.
5. The principle here is clear: Only citizens of our country can play for our National team, irrespective of the sport code. Therefore, no foreign national can play for any of our national teams, no matter how outstanding they may be. If any player in any code is to become a South African citizen, this has to be done within the legal framework of our country.
6. Federations, Provinces and clubs, are more than welcome to approach us for advice on similar issues, instead of trying to slip a player through the legal framework.
Issued by: Sport and Recreation SA
November 12th, 2009 at 10:32 am
Sounds like its still up in the air. Best Wian start warming up!
SARU should just pull Beast out of the test until this is finalised. Let the team focus on the French and not all this.
November 12th, 2009 at 10:34 am
#125 Puma: you don’t think the government can actually run the country, they cause all this oher kak so draw attention away from the fact that they are all useless at running the country, keeping the economy decent etc etc
Perhaps Stofile doesn’t want to help the Beast because he doesn’t have an ANC supporters card.
November 12th, 2009 at 10:35 am
#127 Oubaas2009:
So the ministry is so worried about Tendai’s citizenship etc, but there are literally millions of illegal immigrants in RSA at the moment, taking work away from locals and contributing to crime.
What really is their agenda here?
November 12th, 2009 at 10:56 am
#98 whatever:
I like Safas but I dont like you.
#113 katman:
No, never never never. The Boks dont whinge, they armband.
Pull the other one, it plays Jingle Bells.
#122 Cheetah 4 Eva:
Oh, and where is the bit where the AB Capt or Management have complained about those bannings ? Where is the bit where they wear armbands on to the field in protest ? Where is the AB Capt denying any foul play occurred, saying that Sivi/Woodcock/DC “werent in the wrong” ?
arrogance supreme from Smit.
November 12th, 2009 at 11:19 am
#131 WakaNathan:
arrogance supreme from Smit.
Your opinion only, as worthless as any other’s.
November 12th, 2009 at 11:45 am
The french have made a mistake here. There is one thing with John, dont ever accuse the team of something they are not, it will only motivate them to play even harder.
I remember our opening game in the world cup against England. I think it was in Monties book in fact. The English press accused the boks of underhanded play and reports of “pinching” in rucks
This pissed John off so much that he told the team about these romers in the change room before the game. He then told them to show the poms how to play rugby, use brut force and show no mercy.
The boks sure did, gave them a 36 .0 leason that night.
Go Butcher Boys, show them why we are number 1.
November 12th, 2009 at 11:48 am
#133 Fidget: best game i ever saw…loved it!!
November 12th, 2009 at 11:49 am
Arrogance or not, Smit sure put a lovely hit on Thorne in the 3N.
haha
November 12th, 2009 at 12:01 pm
#134 grant10: Yeah, me too. Will never forget that night. I was at BOK Town, montecasono. The atmosphere was brilliant and then i played black Jack until 3am afterwards and won a few grand.
What a night
November 12th, 2009 at 12:05 pm
#135 cab: I remember that, was a scracker hit.
I just wish he would go back to Hooker though, the scrum has gone into a spiral and they just cant seem to get it right. I dont know if you guys have noticed but when Bakkies goes off the field, the scrums really go to ****. Something need to change.
November 12th, 2009 at 12:11 pm
#137 Fidget: And drop Bismark?
November 12th, 2009 at 12:38 pm
#132 Stawm:
Maybe I was under the mistaken impression that blogging is all about having an opinion and expressing it ?
If I pointed out each 1 I disagreed with, Id be here all day.
November 12th, 2009 at 12:39 pm
#135 cab:
Reuben ?
November 12th, 2009 at 12:53 pm
#132 Stawm: As worthless as yours too?
November 12th, 2009 at 12:54 pm
Dis you watch the game, if you did are you telling me Bakkies deserved to be banned?
November 12th, 2009 at 12:55 pm
#135 cab: Waited a full year for his revenge after getting his fat @rse dumped the year before by the very same Thorne
November 12th, 2009 at 12:55 pm
Dis = Did
November 12th, 2009 at 12:57 pm
#89 WakaNathan: Lets try again.
Did you watch the game, if you did are you telling me Bakkies deserved to be banned?
November 12th, 2009 at 1:00 pm
#145 who cares: F*ck sakes, let it go already. The whole world has moved on and you still feel done in! It’s over, ask Bakkies
November 12th, 2009 at 1:05 pm
#146 Richie_7: Was my messge directed at you, or is WN your bum-chum.
November 12th, 2009 at 1:05 pm
#143 Richie_7:
you still living in the jacaranda city…
the last few months must have been tough for you…
November 12th, 2009 at 1:06 pm
I know about Bissi and that is why management have stuck to their guns and give Smit a chance to sort things out. (me thinks anyway)They are stuck between a rock and a hard place. All it takes though is for the boks to be penalised heavily in one game and lose, things will then change, even if someone must go.
November 12th, 2009 at 1:07 pm
#147 who cares: “Who Cares” – clearly YOU do!
November 12th, 2009 at 1:08 pm
#148 gunther: Extremely!
November 12th, 2009 at 1:09 pm
Gee, I’m a new blogger to this site – you girls seem to fight alot.
Get over it, kiss and make up – lets talk Rugga?
November 12th, 2009 at 1:13 pm
#145 who cares:
1. Yes, of course.
2. Yes, of course.
He’s been cited/banned for exactly the same techniques previously. The IRB released a YouTube video ‘Dangerous play examples from IRB’ 6mths prior to Lions tour. It showed exactly the same techniques by a multitude of players, incl Bakkies – twice ! Its called a ‘WARNING’ in most peoples language.
So he does the same thing, again. And gets cited/banned.
And yet Smit continues to say ‘Bakkies wasnt in the wrong’.
Which in any culture is holding 1 middle finger up to the IRB and World Rugby.
November 12th, 2009 at 1:15 pm
#147 who cares:
my, how mature.
November 12th, 2009 at 1:19 pm
#153 WakaNathan: I disagree with you totally, it’s called cleaning out at the ruck and it was the prime example of how to do it. What do you think about the Lions prop who afterwards said that Bakkies didn’t deserve what he got, thats how the games meant to be played,
When was he cited baned previously for the same technique? I seemed to have missed that one.
November 12th, 2009 at 1:22 pm
#155 who cares: Even I hold up my middle finger to the IRB.
November 12th, 2009 at 1:22 pm
#153 WakaNathan: Bud, the bakkies thing is old news now and you have some valid points regarding smithy. Most rugga fans opinion though is that the clearing was leagal and bakkies was hard done in.
Really, lets move on.
November 12th, 2009 at 1:22 pm
#137 Fidget:
yeah G10 also want him back at hooker, cant see how one can drop Bismarck, he will be essentially tomorrow, tho i also expect a very big and physical game from Smit.
#140 WakaNathan:
Brad, not sure if there is an ‘e’ or not.
#143 Richie_7:
yeah diff is Smit’s was legal and not a spear.
November 12th, 2009 at 1:23 pm
#152 Fidget: Mostly we do. But sometimes characters like Wankathon try to stir things up. It all settles down eventually and then we’re back to discussing how the Lions should take the following year’s Currie Cup.
November 12th, 2009 at 1:26 pm
#157 Fidget:
Move on ? Who Cares cares. Amd isnt it Smit who refuses to let this issue ‘move on’ ?
November 12th, 2009 at 1:26 pm
The entire supersport panel on boots and all had a fat go at the IRB for 20 min over this issue. In fact, this is one of the first time i have come accross someone defending the IRB like this. If the Lions players say that it was fair play, then you must know the IRB are sucking hind ***
November 12th, 2009 at 1:26 pm
#154 WakaNathan: Thats right, and I have manners as well.
November 12th, 2009 at 1:28 pm
#152 Fidget: This is very, very tame here today Fidget.
It can get much, much worse the fighting.
Welcome on board.
November 12th, 2009 at 1:28 pm
#158 cab: Yeah, i agree with you. First prize will be to sort things out in the current set up. bissi is a monster player on his day.
November 12th, 2009 at 1:30 pm
#160 WakaNathan: You brought it up, imagine me calling Richie arrogant when he defends one of his players, especially on one of those down under sites.
November 12th, 2009 at 1:33 pm
#163 Puma: Thanks, hope to make a contribution to the discussions.
Hey, I’m so stoked. I just got 4 tickets to go to the cricket at the wanderer’s tom night. Going to be tight for the rugby but I should make it home in time.
November 12th, 2009 at 1:34 pm
#155 who cares:
A prime example how to do it is by entering NOT from the side but thru the gate; by ‘binding’ on to the ruck first – this would mean using your hands, not having them at your sides; and using your bound arm not your head/elbow/knee.
Oh, you dont recall him taking out the Aus Capt, Mortlock ?
Or the same ones for the Bulls ?
Im not making this up y’know – go to YouTube and search ‘Dangerous play examples from IRB’. This video was released by IRB………..6 months BEFORE the Lions……and you will see both cases fully illustrated. Tell me whether you think Bakkies did anything “in the wrong” as Smit would say ?
November 12th, 2009 at 1:38 pm
#165 who cares:
I didnt bring it up, Smit did. Read the article yet ?
I wouldnt give a sh*t because I dont respect you any more than you do me. But if a Bok/Capt/Manager said that about McCaw I’d be pretty p*ssed off.
Yes, that means you, Muller, White and Smit.
November 12th, 2009 at 1:49 pm
#168 WakaNathan: We are both fighting a losing battle here, my opinion is that Bakkies didn’t deserve to be banned after the Lions test, and if your opinion difers so be it, even after the whole Lions team agrees with me, so be it, I will now stop communicating with you.
You don’t get respect if you don’t know how to show it.
November 12th, 2009 at 1:57 pm
So, we all have our views. Interesting Video, i agree partly here WakaNathan but only partly.
Lets say that bakkies hit him on the head with his shoulder and he broke his neck, would it still be viewed by eveyone as legal clearing? Cause its not a tackle, its a clearing so it cant be called high but surely its would be dangerous if he broke the guys neck.
Must be said though, was one heluva clearing and glad it was not me.
November 12th, 2009 at 2:13 pm
THE BUTCHER BOYS,
It actually has a nice ring to it.
It really is growing on me. It’s a compliment don’t you think? The butcher boys, LOL, you have just pissed off Smity and the boys and now you going to pay.
Bakkis is going to do some more of that legal clearing and Scalky is going to remove more eyes. Stupid arrogant Frogs!!!!!!!
November 12th, 2009 at 2:22 pm
#169 who cares:
Quite.
Incorrect. The Lions Management just played the diplomatic line over Bakkies as they knew the IRB would cite him and therefore Lions Management wouldnt need to, thereby avoiding a diplomatic media storm. This however did not stop the Safas calling them whingers, despite the fact they werent.
But only 3 weeks ago the truth finally came out. Shaun Edwards, Lions forwards coach, used his weekly Guardian article to admonish dangerous play and used the Bakkies ‘clearout’ as the prime example of what the IRB are trying to eradicate.
So dont go fooling yourself that, as oft quoted here, that the Lions Management thought it “was OK”, because they didnt.
November 12th, 2009 at 2:28 pm
#170 Fidget:
Dont forget the key point is NOT BINDING. Its OK to ‘bind’ as you enter, even if that is grabbing a teammamte simultaneously as you enter. This is designed to slow the entry and make it safer. Check all those examples and theyre all flying in with a leading shoulder/head or in 1 case the whole body off the ground. The hands are not binding, they are at the side.
Check out that Bakkies hit on Mortlock again, he is aiming directly at the head/neck. Then watch him as he sees Mortlock immed drop unconscious to the ground. And tell me there is no intent from Bakkies there ?
Hideous.
November 12th, 2009 at 2:43 pm
#173 WakaNathan: my goodness Waka…are you sure you are not an extremely anxious australian rugby union supporter with pms? stop you whining, we are here to support the springboks and listen to interesting points of view from other supporters…not your drivel
November 12th, 2009 at 2:46 pm
you remind me of a cross between Col. Hans Landa from the inglourious ******** and thetackler
ps. any reports from mallet on Italy’s chances next week?
November 12th, 2009 at 2:49 pm
#174 BuckT:
on the contrary, I seem to be 1 of the only ones actually discussing the rugby points raised specifically by this article.
November 12th, 2009 at 2:55 pm
#176 WakaNathan: there is a difference between discussion and preaching from your moral high ground…why not focus on the positives of the all blacks instead of the ‘negatives’ of the springboks…
November 12th, 2009 at 2:58 pm
BuckT, you are wasting your time!
Had a look at the Kiwi wankers comments and are honestly struggling to understand his reason for being on this site.
Just wanna p!ss off some Boks supporters, that’s all.
Probably still crying himself to sleep after they lost the Tri-Nations…
November 12th, 2009 at 2:59 pm
#174 BuckT: Oh, is he a sheep shager? Now that puts his argument in a whole new light.
lol, just kidding blokes.
Lets lighten up a bit.
November 12th, 2009 at 3:03 pm
#178 Snotmossel: OH, is he a Kiwi, even worse.
Why does a Kiwi wear long Wellington boots? so that he can put the sheeps back legs inside the boots, makes it easier to shag them sheep.
haha, only a joke now boys.
November 12th, 2009 at 3:05 pm
Life is always greener on the other side
November 12th, 2009 at 3:08 pm
#180 Fidget: Kiwi, Aussie, all the same to me. Just made the assumption since one of his various highly thought-provoking comments was something along the line of him being upset if someone would make some of the remarks regarding our “dirty and butchery play” against someone like McCaw.
November 12th, 2009 at 3:10 pm
yeah but lets face it McCaw is a great cheat, one of the greatest ever, the thing with McCaw and Fitzy is their innocent choir boy faces – pure genius.
November 12th, 2009 at 3:12 pm
#177 BuckT:
Isnt it Smit, here, preaching from his Moral High Ground ?
Bakkies was banned. Smit, individually, was fined. As was the team.
and yet he’s still telling us “Bakkies wasnt in the wrong”.
Unless Im mistaken, THAT is preaching from a Moral High Ground. No ?
November 12th, 2009 at 3:16 pm
#183 cab:
Thing is, Fitzy and McCaw never complained. They know they get away with more than they get caught with. So they dont complain when they do.
Smit hasnt stopped about Bakkies. And the fans have been going on about unfair citings for a decade.
BS
November 12th, 2009 at 3:28 pm
#184 WakaNathan: you got one thing right, you are mistaken….john smit felt the ruling on bakkies was unfair, as did other players from other countries. he felt the irb made an unfair call and he is standing by his decision. it’s the same as you saying the ban on Carter was unfair…perhaps so…you just feel the need to come here and stick the knife in, so to speak, must fuel an underlying desire to always be right…you must argue a lot
November 12th, 2009 at 3:48 pm
#153 WakaNathan:
The IRB released a select number of clips and were unable to release the 1000’s of INDENTICAL clips that take place week in/week out of that sort of clearance.
The IRB were wrong to cite that. Adam Jones, the B&I Lions management said as much and 90% of right-thinking people know as much. It’s only those who are watching the incident with preconceptions that say different.
And good on Smitty for calling it as he sees it again. A man who stands by his convictions!
November 12th, 2009 at 3:49 pm
#186 BuckT:
Nah, no probs whatsoever with DC. It was high. Ive certainly seen worse but there you go. Cop it sweet my son.
The banning on Bakkies was not unfair. The IRB released that video 6mths prior to the Lions. How fair can you be ? The fact Bakkies and SA coaches chose to ignore it does not give them open licence to subsequently claim they are being persecuted. Quite the opposite.
Moral High Ground indeed.
November 12th, 2009 at 3:50 pm
#184 WakaNathan:
No- that’s calling it as he sees it. Moral high ground has nothing to do with it.
When you are accused of something you believe is absolutely wrong, do you just roll over and accept it? IF the laws of the game clearly state that what Bakkies did is a citable offence, then there should be citings every single week. And that is Smit’s gripe.
November 12th, 2009 at 3:54 pm
#187 Vetkoek:
1-eyed nonsense. The video released by the IRB included approx 20 cases and showed Boks, Kiwis, Brits.
By citing, the IRB were being consistent. The Lions Management were playing the diplomatic path. Shaun Edwards, Lions fwds coach, wrote an article about it in the Guardian 3 weeks ago, using Bakkies ‘clearout’ as the prime example of dangerous play. The truth will always out.
A.Jones is still out of all rugby, he will be for 6mths. How would Safas feel if that had been their TH, J.Smit ? The complaints wouldnt have stopped.
Besides, as the video shows Bakkies has a history of the same offence. How dumb and arrogant to assume you can just keep doing it, despite the warning.
November 12th, 2009 at 3:57 pm
#189 Vetkoek:
The laws of the game DO state its a citing offence – you must BIND when entering the ruck – he did not.
The IRB released the vdeo specifically to give examples of what the Laws are NOT.
Smit was wrong and the IRB have told him repeatedly, fined him. His reply is to give the Middle Finger time and again.
Moral High Ground.
November 12th, 2009 at 3:58 pm
#190 WakaNathan:
When and how was this warning issued to Bakkies? IF the warning was issued to everyone, why do we see the same clearing out in just about every test since.
Don’t tell me you don’t see it, because it is there every week. Perhaps if you took off your eye-patch, you’d get a better perspective on it.
November 12th, 2009 at 4:01 pm
#185 WakaNathan:
never complained?!
holy ****, you must have selective amnesia or something, entire fiction novels were created by Fitzy regarding supposed Suzie and Barnesey vendettas.
November 12th, 2009 at 4:02 pm
#191 WakaNathan:
Smit is not saying the law is wrong. He – like everyone else – is saying that is not applied consistently and that Bakkies has been made a scapegoat and that is wrong. Especially in the context of this article.
And he is 100% correct on that. I will ask one last time. Do you HONESTLY believe that nobody has cleared a ruck like that since Bakkies did it in that match?
Cos I see it happen at every level, every week.
November 12th, 2009 at 4:08 pm
#192 Vetkoek:
The video released by the IRB. If thats not a clear warning I dont know what was. Released just before the Lions series, not a coincidence.
The prime example was this year ABs vs Boks (Hamilton ?). Woodcock allegedly cleared out ‘like Bakkies’. And the whole of SA puffed out their indignant chests. But replays clearly showed he had his hands up, and his right hand bound to a teammate at the same time he cleared-out. He was bound. Thats the difference. Show me where Bakkies ‘bound’ – its clear he didnt. Check out that hit on Mortlock – his hands are near his pocket and he is clearly aiming his SHOULDER at Mortlocks head/neck.
#194 Vetkoek:
complete BS. “He – like every other Bok fan – is saying he did nothing wrong”
November 12th, 2009 at 4:12 pm
#195 WakaNathan:
Mate- your youtube video means nothing.
And if you read the transcript of the hearing involving Smit, he CLEARLY states that he believed Bakkies was being unfairly targeted, because that law is seen every week being broken.
Your little comment on the Bok fan thing says it all. This is not about being a bok fan. It means nothing now anyway.
Keep whipping out your little instances of people binding on whilst clearing aruck then watch both the tests from this saturday and see how many times is didn’t happen.
It’s BS. The laws are not applied consistently and Bakkies got treated as a scapegoat. Only thing is, the IRB hwave not cited one single person since then for the same offence.
November 12th, 2009 at 4:13 pm
#193 cab:
Cab, please search the entire internet for the bit where Fitzy complains about Suzie.
He doesnt.
In fact Fitzy is repeatedly on record as saying the whole ‘Suzie’ thing was a nonsense. Fitzy is famous for keeping schtum. In fact, he didnt even need to say anything about Chew la Roux because his face already said everything.
Suzie arose via Laurie Mains, not Fitzy.
Lets not forget it was a Safa who blew the lid on the poisoning in ‘95 – the security officer who was previously a bodyguard to Madiba. He saw it all and wrote about it. A well-respected Safa professional, no less
Fitzy had nothing to do with Barnes. Crickey, he’d been retired for 10years before Barnes shocker in Cardiff !!!
November 12th, 2009 at 4:16 pm
#196 Vetkoek:
Bakkies the scapegoat
ha HAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA !
BTW – it wasnt ‘my’ YouTube clip, it was rugbys governing body and lawmaker.
I imagine of I gave the Middle Finger to a Judge or a cop, he mightnt be too keen on that either.
November 12th, 2009 at 4:20 pm
#196 Vetkoek: Vetkoek ou maat, jy probeer praat met hierdie ou asof hy n redelike mens is – maar lees sy poste – hy is ongelukkig nie – en jy moet hom op daai manier hanteer
Hy probeer om SA ondersteuners om te krap en praat twak 99% van die tyd. Hy is n ongelukkige jong man wat wegkruip in n hol in London iewers en sy lewe spandeer om Suid Afrikaners die moering te maak, in plaas van op n All Blacks blad te gaan pos en met sy eie landsmense te gaan praat
November 12th, 2009 at 4:21 pm
#199 bokfan1:
BaXXies to you too !
November 12th, 2009 at 4:34 pm
#187 Vetkoek:
This is how much the ‘B&I Lions said it was wrong to cite Bakkies’
from the Guardian, Oct 30th, by Lions fwds coach, Shaun Edwards:-
” Beaumont and Davies, our manager in South Africa this summer, were at Rugby School this week when Beaumont, once England’s captain and now one of the game’s lawmakers, expressed alarm at the number of gratuitous hits delivered by players attempting to clear out rucks.
Beaumont said that if current research proved a need, he was prepared to legislate to stop the kind of incident to which Davies had referred earlier – the “tackle” by Bakkies Botha that put Adam Jones out of the tour and out of rugby so far this season. Davies described Botha as a “missile”.
He’s right and my particular worry is the way guys on the fringes, and therefore possibly unsighted, get hit when they are not expecting contact. Off guard they are doubly prone to injury.”.
Off-guard is exactly was A.Jones was as he suffered a direct hit from the Botha Missile.
November 12th, 2009 at 4:38 pm
#199 bokfan1:
Ja ek weet.
Ek het maar niks beter te doen vandag:)
November 12th, 2009 at 4:44 pm
#202 Vetkoek: Hahaha reg so – ag dan baklei n bietjie meer met die poephol
Ons kon almal sien die Britses het probeer om hard te speel, en vuil te speel om die Bokke se self vetroue te probeer skud. Dit het nie gewerk nie, en toe die Bokke net so hard terug speel, toe kon hulle dit nie behandel nie, en die ouens moes hospitaal toe gaan ens!
Ag nee wat, daar is n goie gesegte – Moenie die wolf wakker maak nie as jy hom nie kan dood maak nie!
November 12th, 2009 at 4:51 pm
#201 WakaNathan:
Great story. This from WalesOnline and the Western Mail:
IF there was one person you wouldn’t expect to back the controversial Justice 4 Bakkies Botha campaign, it would be Wales and Lions star Adam Jones.
But, despite being the victim of the big South African’s “dangerous play” – an act that left Jones with a dislocated shoulder and facing six months on the sidelines – the affable Welshman is adamant Botha didn’t do anything wrong.
“It was just one of those things that happens in rugby,” said Jones, speaking for the first time about the incident at the Ospreys’ new kit launch yesterday.
“Botha shouldn’t have been banned for it, nowhere near it.”
Following a post-match citing by the independent commissioner, the Springbok powerhouse was given a two-week ban for an illegal charge on Jones during the Lions’ Test in Pretoria.
Botha staunchly protested his innocence and, such was the outcry among his team-mates, the entire starting XV wore Justice 4 Bakkies armbands during the third Test.
The protest quickly earned SA Rugby an IRB charge for bringing the game into disrepute. And, after presenting their case to a disciplinary committee in Dublin on Monday, they are waiting to hear their punishment.
Jones’ version of the affair was then quite timely
But, as far as the 28-year-old prop is concerned, his injury was just part and parcel of the rough and tumble of international rugby.
Jones added: “I don’t have any complaints. He just cleared me out of the ruck and I got caught.
“Everyone counter-rucks nowadays and, if anything, I was in the wrong place. He just hit me and I was unlucky.
“So I was surprised to see he got banned. I know we didn’t cite him so I don’t know why the independent commissioner did.
“It was just a fair ruck from a hard player. When I have met him before he seems like a tidy enough bloke so I’m not seeing it as anything malicious.
November 12th, 2009 at 5:17 pm
#204 Vetkoek:
This from the guy of the team the Safas labelled as whingers.
Lucky players dont make the rules then huh. The IRB does.
November 12th, 2009 at 5:28 pm
#206 WakaNathan:
The point is as elusive to you as a world cup to a kiwi hey?
IRB makes the rules. Citing commissioners interpret them the way they want and one guy gets cited for an offence that happens every week. you like youtube so much, check it out for yourself. Unfortunately due to moderation, the 5 or so examples of Brad Thorn, Richie McCaw, Nathan Sharpe, Tony Woodcock and the British & Irish Lions hooker who hit Bakkies immediately after he hit Jones, that I posted the links for have been disallowed.
But if you look for them, you’ll find them.
November 12th, 2009 at 5:30 pm
#206 Vetkoek:
Goeie v@k, Vetkoek, maar jy is geduldig met die aap.
Smaak my die knaap kort ‘n lekker PK…..
‘n Lekker “Waka” teen die kop!!!
Is jy so verveeld?
November 12th, 2009 at 6:00 pm
#206 Vetkoek:
The point is that Bakkies was banned for an offence that others have similarly been cited/warned/banned for, as the clip shows. And Bakkies is a repeat offender of the same offence. Most people would be smart enough to learn to correct the problem.
What does it matter about who retaliated ? Woodcock is coming back from a 1-match ban for striking. The fact that G.Smith threw many punches at him and D.Mumm ran 20yards to throw another couple of blatant ones, seems not to have mattered to the Citing Commissioner either.
The IRB are trying to eradicate the cause not the effect. Which is why we have laws. Look for them, you’ll find them.
November 12th, 2009 at 6:17 pm
#139 WakaNathan:
Doesnt answer the question as to why you are always having a go at the boks and certain other bloggers.
November 12th, 2009 at 6:18 pm
#141 Richie_7:
Phew, what a conclusion you have come to.
Congrats, I thought no-one would figure that out.
November 12th, 2009 at 6:29 pm
#209 Stawm:
So its only fine here if its pro-Boks/SA ?
Funny, I dont see alot of pro-NZ/Aus/Engl…
And rest assured, Im probably harder on my own teams.
November 12th, 2009 at 7:14 pm
#212 WakaNathan:
Yes, it is.
Because we are the best team in the world.
And as such, you will treat the Boks with respect, heathen.
November 12th, 2009 at 7:26 pm
#211 WakaNathan:
No its not only pro boks, but what is the point really of nit picking stupid comments from bloggers all the time.
Also, you’ve made your point about how you think Smit is arrogant and the boks are arrogant, and the whole conspiracy theory etc, why do you keep on about it all the time.
Do you think you are going to change the minds of die-hard bok supporters to turn against their team, especially when the team is winning? Its not going to happen.
Mind you, having said all this, they are your ulcers you’re cultivating and you will reap the benefits of them sooner or later.
I shouldnt be interfering or else I am guilty of what I am accusing you of.
November 12th, 2009 at 7:30 pm
#212 Vetkoek:
Prepare to be disappointed then.
Respect is a 2-way deal mfraid. Which is not news to yer wee buddy, BokFan1 (BaXXies !).
November 12th, 2009 at 7:43 pm
#213 Stawm:
Actually if you saw thru the thick red mist and had been around longer than 5mins you’d have also noticed that Ive consistently said I would still pick Bakkies as a great player, that I backed Smit as a great Capt against a tide of naysayers here who barracked that he was “only the 3rd best hooker in the country”. I even called Jake White the answer to your prayers in the 2yrs prior to the RWC despite those same naysayers here who called for the axe. The same fickle and spineless bunch who now pat them on the back and say “I told you so”.
And the 2% of entries you read from me/others that arent hitting your Pro-Bok Approval levels are lost in a tsunami of 1-eyed hypocricy that sweeps ruthlessly in the opposite direction. Anyway, for a tough nation, cant you just see past all the bits you dont like and just focus on all the bravado that an endless supply of willing punters are only too happy to oblige ?
November 12th, 2009 at 8:12 pm
#215 WakaNathan:
Thick red mist? I presume you are insinuating that I am angry or lost the plot? Quite wrong, I am amused at your constant guidance of the bok supporter spirit.
Thanks for that.
As for being around longer than 5 minutes, I joined this site just about a month after it was launched, somewhere in 2003 I think – as I said earlier, I dont feel the need to compete in this ‘mine is bigger than yours’ saga that you seem to be attracted to.
As a matter of interest, who appointed you judge and jury of bok sentiment?
November 12th, 2009 at 8:43 pm
#216 Stawm:
If that is the case, then I wouldnt need to point that out to you either.
Who said anything about Judge & Jury and ulcers, tending towards the melodramatic now arent we ?
November 12th, 2009 at 10:24 pm
#213 Stawm:
BTW – on yest’s article about the AB lineup to play Italia, I called the ABs “arrogant”, 1 of the players hopeless and today that middleweights Italia have a genuine chance.
Is this acceptable to your tolerance levels or was it too anti-ABs ?
November 13th, 2009 at 9:19 am
Your few neg comments WRT the AB’s dont come near the number of neg comments WRT the boks.
You seem to take it to a personal level.
But in all honesty, I dont really care, enjoy your ulcers.
cheers
November 13th, 2009 at 10:57 am
#219 Stawm:
My few ‘negative’ comments re the Boks are a mere drop in the ocean compared to the bile directed at not only AB rugby, but towards Aussie, Poms, Lions etc here. Smits comments just showed he and many others dont feel the need to even put up a think veneer of respect to the lawmakers or his opponents.
So grow a spine, lightweight.
November 13th, 2009 at 11:14 am
New Zealand testicles are a delicacy in France.
November 13th, 2009 at 12:12 pm
#220 WakaNathan: Why can you not find another site? Google that is the easy way
November 13th, 2009 at 1:11 pm
#222 JL1:
I would miss winding you up far too much, JL1.
How are those stadium crowd stats for the tour coming on ? Still a few spare seats in the house for Udine, Italy, I see. The San Siro was Sold Out 2 mths ago, twice the capacity of the un-sold Bok venue.
What does that tell you ?