Cheeky not upset at Kings rejection
Cheeky Watson still says the Southern Kings will see Super Rugby action in future.
On Wednesday, Melbourne was awarded the 15th spot when the tournament expands in 2011, a decision that leaves the Port Elizabeth-based franchise struggling to achieve their goal. In future they could take the place of the worst-performing South African side, but they’ll have to first gain entry into the Currie Cup premier division.
Watson said he is ‘more resolute than ever’ in bringing Super Rugby to the Eastern Cape.
‘I said right at the beginning that we were not holding our hopes high on winning against Melbourne, so I’m not disappointed at all,’ EPRU president Watson told The Herald. ‘However, we are still fighting for a South African franchise like we were doing right from the beginning.’
Meanwhile, ARU CEO John O’Neill said this was a ‘vote for common sense’, as Melbourne would play in the Australian conference.
O’Neill added as many as 10 foreigners would be allowed to play for Melbourne, as not to deplete Australia’s other franchises.
‘The difference in broadcasting revenue between having a team in Melbourne versus having a team in Port Elizabeth was between a $15 million and $20 million [R137m] cost to Sanzar,’ according to O’Neill.
The Kings were deemed more ‘rugby ready’ than Melbourne, while the top Australian team in this year’s Super 14, the Waraths, ended fifth. Australia coach Robbie Deans was nonetheless ecstatic.
‘You’ve got rugby across the calendar year,’ said Deans. ‘You’ve got not only rugby, but local derbies, domestic rugby. Those two points alone are enormous. Easily said, but huge value.
‘It’s more top-end rugby and the reality is that players tend to be as good as the competitions they come out of and we’ve now got a top-end competition that will run from the start of the year to the finish.’
November 12th, 2009 at 10:56 am
Yeah, right.
November 12th, 2009 at 10:59 am
Cheeky Watson still believes the Southern Kings will see Super Rugby action in future … even if it requires political measures to kick out another South African franchise.
November 12th, 2009 at 11:04 am
A Promotion-relegation system must be implemented. The team coming last in our conference must play the team sitting out, and whoever comes out tops after home and away games get to play S15. No political buddy-buddy interference required.
November 12th, 2009 at 11:09 am
10 foreign players in Melbourne….
Make sure our saffa players got proper contracts….
Hier kom groot kak!
November 12th, 2009 at 11:17 am
This will be the vehicle by which Australia will bolster the Wallaby team.
You can guarantee that they’ll be waving their cheque books in front of every superstar South African schoolboy and U21 player they can find.
It’ll be a team brimming with Clyde Rathbones and Dan Vickermans.
November 12th, 2009 at 11:26 am
#5 WestAussieBok: It has to be. Where else will they find enough competent players to make up a Super team with enough depth? Now consider how teams like the Lions, Cheetahs, Force and Reds battle to build enough depth.
November 12th, 2009 at 11:29 am
#3 Katsesnor:
no chance that will happen, the Spears only way in is the political card, they cannot even compete in the currie cup.
I’m all for the Spears franchise, it should have been at the expense of the Melbourne region which is not interested in union, but instead they going to have to target SARU, since SANZAR are having none of it.
i’m afraid the Lions might very well be sacrificed, which will be an absolute tragedy and might well and truly be a nail in the coffin.
If a province loses their S14 franchise, they instantly lose massive money and sponsorship and players. Ellis Park and the heritage, down the tubes.
November 12th, 2009 at 11:31 am
Eish, 10 foreign players! That shouldn’t be allowed by SANZAR. We are going the English Club Rugby way.
November 12th, 2009 at 11:37 am
#8 Oubaas2009: #7 cab:
Welcome to the realities of professional rugby…
Now it is adapt or die.
And in the next few years, the most business savvy unions and franchises will survive.
And I can guarrantee you, it will be at the expense of some very old ‘rugby traditions’.
November 12th, 2009 at 11:39 am
Give Ellis to the soccer guys, they want it bad enough.
Let the Lions join the Bulls and form a super union (what they were before the BUlls broke away in 1937).
I cannot see many teams in the world, let alone SA beat a well managed Gauteng union…
November 12th, 2009 at 11:39 am
#10 PissAnt:
Hell it is not even Ellis Park anymore anycase.
November 12th, 2009 at 11:40 am
#7 cab: Cab, I’ve always been in favour of one Gauteng franchise but I just cannot ever see the Lions and Bulls joining-up into one Super franchise. The Cats was a complete failure because it had no unifying identity. Bloem and Joburg have nothing in common, but Joburg and Pretoria do (although die-hard fans will say no). The Lions may also prove to be a much tougher nut to crack in 2010 with a new coaching structure, new players, and new prez. Promotio-relegation must be the way to go – provided the Kings play in the CC Premier League. An EP + Border + SWD joint effort should get them into the Premier League, relegating the Pumas and Leopards.
November 12th, 2009 at 11:42 am
#3 Katsesnor:
I reckon a promotion/relegation system for the S15 is the wrong way to go. There’ll be far too much disruption with players being drafted for the two teams involved to ever build a strong side.
We need to ensure that we develop 5 strong regional sides who’s aim is to provide Springbok quality players. Once we bring relegation into the equation, the chequebook takes on an even bigger role.
November 12th, 2009 at 11:42 am
You have to hand it to these Watsons…………..they are positive thinkers.
November 12th, 2009 at 11:43 am
I am reminded of a story I read not too long ago about a guy that went along the platteland to all the old rugby dorpies you used to get…
Rugby in most those dorpies are gone, with only a few still going.
Speaking to people in pubs there, guys who has been supporting and following rugby for decades, he found it interesting to have a Griquas supporter state he supports the Bulls and the Griquas.
Most fans in dissolved rugby areas find new teams to support.
Hell the Griquas are one of the oldest rugby unions in SA and some die-hard Griquas guys ended up supporting the Bulls as years went on and rugby feeding systems to Griquas rugby died off slowly.
Professionalism in rugby will only start hitting the nerves of what pro sport is all about now and for the next 15 years.
I imagine, in 15 years from now, very little of what we see now (traditionally) will still be around.
November 12th, 2009 at 11:45 am
#10 PissAnt: Sell you mean (not give) … and that’s exactly where things get complicated. The GLRU owns 100% of EP (not to be confused with EPWOS in which Orlando Pirates have a 51% share). The Lions sit on a gold mine. They can very easily move to Soccer City, sell EP, have billions in the bank, and buy whatever player they want … and they may just be at a point of doing exactly this. Then a Bulls-Lions joint effort will be out of the window for good.
November 12th, 2009 at 11:46 am
#9 PissAnt:
yeah, but its got nothing to do with business, the Spears will get it for political reasons.
#12 Katsesnor:
yes, looks like that or either the Cats concepts will be the state of play, but Gauteng (joburg and surrounds) and Mpumulanga (pretoriaand north) are very distinct regions. Also traditionally the TVL-NTVL rivalry was a big one.
NSW and the Brumbies are the same, they are geographically close but miles apart.
In fact, the easiest solution would simply be a S16 in which the Spears are also allowed in and the tournament is reformatted into two pool groups so that there is less travel in general – which is killing the SH players.
November 12th, 2009 at 11:47 am
#14 cane:
hmmm, u reckon hey?
November 12th, 2009 at 11:47 am
And Anyway…………..Why can’t Western Province and Eastern Cape combine. All Cape Province are they not?
Storm Kings.
November 12th, 2009 at 11:49 am
Brokeback Spears.
November 12th, 2009 at 11:51 am
#19 cane: They could Cane but it will be like when Cheetahs joined with Lions. The distance between both cities are just too far.
Even more so from E. Cape to W. Cape. Just too far apart.
November 12th, 2009 at 11:52 am
#16 Katsesnor:
I think people miss the fact that the Franchises are seperate business entities to the unions involved in them, and often with different underpinning sponsors. Joining the Bulls and Lions for the S15 would create one very powerfull franchise and allow the two unions to compete in the CC.
I think the major problems with the Cats was the travelling distance and Luyts attempts to have the Lions controlling the franchise.
November 12th, 2009 at 11:53 am
#15 PissAnt:
PA, a man with his hand on the pulse.
Great post.
November 12th, 2009 at 11:54 am
#19 cane:
No, they’re different provinces entirely.
November 12th, 2009 at 11:56 am
#22 David:
That sounds like a position in which room must be made for the Spears at all costs. Not so easy if you a Lions supporter. They might be the lowliest province in the S14 now, but at one stage were riding high and it was the Bulls that were bottomfeeders. The cheetahs have also been there and done that and what happens if WP have that sort of season, do they also get relegated?
November 12th, 2009 at 11:57 am
#7 cab: Cab as bad as the Lions have been playing this year and the past, I don’t see such a huge union ever going anywhere. They will always be part of the CC and Super rugby. Actually some of the losses this year was so close if they had beaten Hurricanes and Chiefs which they could have Lions would not have looked too bad.
Have high hopes for that union next year. Think we will see a better Lions team in the S14 and CC.
November 12th, 2009 at 11:58 am
My god man, Ellis Park is a rugby icon, what happens does that just dissapear because of some stupid adage: adapt or die?
Rugby tradition is one of the reasons NZ and SA rugby is so strong and particularly why it is so widely followed in these countries.
November 12th, 2009 at 11:58 am
#16 Katsesnor:
What is the EPWOS?
November 12th, 2009 at 12:01 pm
#23 cane:
Biggest obstacle is geographical dynamics.
CPT is over 400km away from PE for instance.
However, PE, East London and George are what? About 200km radius from one another?
I would love to see these three unions form a super franchise.
November 12th, 2009 at 12:02 pm
#25 cab:
Remember, in the earlier days of Super rugby, WP was relegated from the Super series.
They came back and won the CC soon after once they got their house in order.
Relegation might not be a bad thing…
Especially if it gets rid of passengers (administrators and players)
November 12th, 2009 at 12:02 pm
#22 David: David, although it’s different entities it’s the same players. A Bulls-Lions joint venture will cause many S14/15 quality players to sit out – and they will want out of their contracts with their respective unions to go play Super rugby elsewhere … playing in the hands of Melbourne and others.
November 12th, 2009 at 12:06 pm
#24 David:
My 1966 School Boy Atlas shows:
- Natal.
- Transvaal.
- Orange Free State.
- Cape Province.
November 12th, 2009 at 12:06 pm
besides, every body or thing is going to die, makes no difference whether one adapts or not – if someone is so adaptive as to play 2nd fiddle to anothers wants and needs, they might as well be dead.
I say the Lions must fight the Spears and govt through the courts if needs be, unless there is a relegation play-off, there is nothing to lose, if the union is going down it might as well spend some money on making it as difficult as possible.
If on the other hand, there was a S16 or the Spears had got it instead of Melbourne, there would be no need for such a fight.
November 12th, 2009 at 12:06 pm
#29 PissAnt: EPWOS = Ellis Park World of Sports. They manage and maintain the three stadions in the area for the owners. They rent the stadions out and make money in the process. Like the Stade de France company will do with the new Cape Town Stadion.
November 12th, 2009 at 12:16 pm
#19 cane: Or join the two Wellingtons – the Storming Hurricanes
November 12th, 2009 at 12:17 pm
#34 Katsesnor:
Must be honest I never heard of them, even in the audit report from the GLRU I read in the recent past.
I know of the trust and EPRS which as you mentioned 51% was sold off to Pirates and naming rights sold to Coca-Cola.
November 12th, 2009 at 12:22 pm
#35 stormer in a D cup:
Farts in the Wind.
November 12th, 2009 at 12:22 pm
#34 Katsesnor:
But is it just a management function or do they actually own the stadia?
Something I read recently suggested Newlands is the only wholly owned stadium left in the country (owned by the union).
November 12th, 2009 at 12:24 pm
#32 cane:
There are now 9 provinces.
#25 cab:
I’m just advocating 5 permanent regional franchises for the S15 only.
The whole point of the Super Series was to showcase the countries top 150 players, which is contained in the Sanzar/Newscorp contract. In the last couple of years, how many Lions players would have fitted that bill? We need to ensure that the best players get game time, not just be hoarded by a couple of unions.
November 12th, 2009 at 12:27 pm
#32 cane: My 1977 Scope shows stars on the titties.
November 12th, 2009 at 12:29 pm
#33 cab:
The Argentine has already been admitted into the “4 Nations”.
They should have gotten the 15th franchise………….and the 16th…….. when it comes along.
Without Super Rugby Teams, their admission to the “4 Nations” is pointless.
They will be Dog Tucker, without fully Professsional Home Based Teams.
November 12th, 2009 at 12:31 pm
#40 katman:
I didn’t know you collected them.
November 12th, 2009 at 12:34 pm
#41 cane: That is right on the money. The Argies should have at least one spot. That would represent real commercial growth, taking it to a whole rugby country rather than a city that couldn’t give a toss. It seems that rugby is now being run for the potential fans rather than the existing ones.
November 12th, 2009 at 12:35 pm
#42 David: I thought I keep a few hundred. Old magazines are great for kids to cut things out from for school projects and art.
November 12th, 2009 at 12:36 pm
Sharks and Spears should amalgamate. Or Sharks and Cheetah’s, they practically raid these talent coffers every year anyway. Sharks of their own have zero feeder systems, their feeder schools are Grey Bloem or Grey College or St Andrews EC.
You want a politically activated EC franchise then let it swallow up Natal Sharks who only boast a handful of youngsters coming through the development system anyway.
Bulls, Lions, WP, Cheetah’s all have proper depth through their feeder bases and so too will Spears in time, its actually the Sharks who are raking talent off everyone else calling it ‘professionalism’ even to tune of importing French and Argie castaways instead of developing their own.
November 12th, 2009 at 12:40 pm
#41 cane: Agree with you Cane, Arg should have got the 15th and probably the 16th franchise. They will struggle in the 4 Nations without playing some really tough Super Rugby.
November 12th, 2009 at 12:45 pm
Here is some irony for you guys.
Since the inception of the Spears it was said that for just rugby reasons, they should not get a franchise and should ‘prove’ themselves in the game of union first…
Yet, when it came to awarding the 15th franchise ‘rugby reasons’ were seemingly overlooked in the awarding of the franchise (Kings had the better bid) and it was awarded on monetary considerations only/mostly…
Second piece of irony…
It is no secret O’Neil’s administration failed dismally in creating a local competition of union in Australia, dissolving the competition after only one year.
Now through the new Super 15 competition, and the conference system which is largely based on local derbies, SA Rugby and New Zealand rugby has basically gifted the Aussies a local competition of which they (SA mostly and NZ) help foot the bill for the competition!!!!????
As far as I can remember, it was said here and on various other blogs that if the Eastern Cape region, cannot get their own house in order and look after their structures first, and get rugby to be competitive there, SA Rugby and the other unions should not throw money at them
But ironically, we are now throwing money at the Aussies to help them establish union in their country where union is under massive threat from the other codes and where their administration failed to do this on their own?
And we are seemingly happy with this?
Just about every reason ever suggested not to give the Spears/Kings a franchise was overlooked, or reversed, in awarding it to Melbourne – and it is justified?
You just got to love the irony of all this…
November 12th, 2009 at 12:46 pm
#45 skopskiet: Oh really, so Habana, Jacques Fourie, Chavanga, Naquelevuki, Toomua, Jack Black, Tony Brown, Peter Grant, Boby Skinstadt, Luke Watson, Willem De Waal, AJ Venter, Ricky Januarie; Percy Montgomery; All from WP! Now you may hate the Sharks truth is WP is no way better than the Sharks allowing imports to take the place of their “talented youngsters” and still coming nowhere in S14!
November 12th, 2009 at 12:47 pm
#45 skopskiet: Alas in the age of professional sport it the results that count. The big city teams may raid the regions but they can do it because they know how to be successful. Why isn’t EP the best team in SA? Australia’s most successful side is ACT with a tiny player base, probably smaller than Border’s. They have put together a small but good squad and applied smart, professional principles to the way they have run their franchise. By all accounts they should be the weakest team in super rugby because they have the smallest local player base in the modern age there is no such thing as entitlement.You have to earn your place at the table. If you start out with a large talent pool and still can’t pip the likes of Griquas and Pumas and Leopards what the hell are you doing wrong and why on earth should you be given a place that you are completely unable to earn?
November 12th, 2009 at 12:47 pm
#41 cane:
#46 Puma:
I think that as a S15 franchise, it would clash with the NH club season.
Besides they are also the 6th ranked nation in the world, ahead of England and Wales. How could they play as a regional franchise?