Cotton wool key to Bok backlash
There’s nothing to be gained by starting an already exhausted Bok senior side against Saracens and Italy.
Peter de Villiers was clear about his goals when naming a 37-man squad to tour England, France, Italy and Ireland. Five wins from five matches was the target, and the Bok coach also hoped to develop some untried youngsters and work on strengthening the second-choice combinations.
South Africa suffered the worst possible start to the tour with the dirt-trackers going down to a depleted Leicester, and the Boks’ reserve front row returning home with injury. The senior side was outmuscled in Toulouse, and unless the Boks reassess their priorities, the tour could finish in disaster.
To salvage this tour, the Boks need to beat Ireland in Dublin. To beat the Irish, the incumbents will need to time to recuperate, and giving them the next week off could also aid De Villiers’ secondary ambition of developing the second-string.
It’s yet to be confirmed whether the team named to start against Saracens will be available for starting positions in the Italy Test. One hopes this is the case, because the Boks’ best could do with a break, especially after the beating they took at Stade Municipal.
Wian du Preez, Adriaan Strauss and CJ van der Linde are picked to front Saracens, a powerful Free State combination that should provide the South Africans with stability at scrum time.
The smart move is to start these three against Italy, a side renowned for their scrum. The Boks would have a shot at parity despite the absence of Beast Mtawarira, Bismarck du Plessis and John Smit, while the frontline players would be spared a physical tussle a week before the game that really matters.
Ireland’s scrum was poor against Australia on Sunday, an encouraging sign for a Bok team that’s endured their own problems in this facet. Nevertheless, you’d want your best players available for this clash, and you’d want them firing at something close to 100%.
Again, the Boks are well capable of beating this Irish outfit, but after Friday’s French lesson, they will know that intensity is everything. It’s the last game at the end of a taxing year, but they’ll need to be at their brutish best.
The most recent selection suggests De Villiers and company are taking the Saracens match seriously, but they need to keep their eyes on the prize. The Six Nations Champs have been hyping the 28 November fixture as the ultimate north versus south clash, and those British & Irish Lions players who tasted defeat earlier in the year will be desperate for revenge.
It won’t help the senior Boks’ cause to arrive in Dublin after what should be a physical battle in Udine. With respect to Italy, this is a Test where the fringe players should get a start. Start Danie Rossouw and Andries Bekker in a Test environment, and see what loose forwards Jean Deysel and Dewald Potgieter have to offer when awarded an official Test cap.
For Du Preez and Strauss, it’s a massive challenge scrumming against a team that includes Martin Castrogiovanni, but they’ll have one of the world’s best and most experienced tightheads alongside them. In an ideal rugby world, that’s how you’re supposed to blood newcomers – by surrounding them with experience.
So let’s hope the announcement of the side to face Saracens isn’t a case of the Bok management hitting the panic button. Let’s hope the first team aren’t rolled out in Udine, because it won’t contribute to success in Dublin.
The Irish press believe De Villiers’ job will be on the line by the time the Boks arrive. There’s no chance of the South African coach being sacked after the Boks’ success in the Lions series and Tri-Nations. But the Irish are correct in assuming South Africa’s tour would amount to a failure if they’re downed at Croke Park.
By Jon Cardinelli, in London
November 16th, 2009 at 5:39 am
Dragon Schmagon
November 16th, 2009 at 5:44 am
Boks vs Italy:
1. Du Preez
2. Strauss
3. Van Der Linde
4. Rossouw
5. Bekker
6. Brussow
7. Potgieter
8. Johnson
9. Adams
10. Steyn
11. Habana
12. Olivier
13. Fourie
14. Pieterson
15. Kirchner
16. Du Plessis
17. Smit
18. Matfield
19. Deysel
20. Du Preez
21. Pienaar
22. Jacobs
November 16th, 2009 at 5:49 am
Bring back Butch,Frans and Jdv-
Bring in Mapoe
chuck out Ndungane
November 16th, 2009 at 5:52 am
Who is cotton wool anyways-is he any good?
November 16th, 2009 at 5:52 am
any idea who the ref is for the italian test? he will need to know his scrum rules inside out, coz there sure will be many of them.
November 16th, 2009 at 6:11 am
#3 leerkassie:
While I agree, it would be great to have these players in the mix, the game against France was not lost by the backs – even though Morne Steyn had a bad game.
Our front row lost their battle.
Bakkies and Victor were both bullied.
Schalk slipped off way too many tackles.
And Kanko was nowhere.
November 16th, 2009 at 6:14 am
Although Adi at 12, in terms of him giving us go-forward ball, was an utter failure.
November 16th, 2009 at 6:18 am
Imagine:
Mtawarira
Smit
Van Der Linde
Botha
Matfield
Brussow
Smith
Spies
Du Preez
Steyn
Habana
JDV
Fourie
Pieterson
Steyn
Van Der Merwe
Du Plessis
Strauss
Nel
Rossouw
Bekker
Burger
Potgieter
Pienaar
Hougaard
James
Olivier
Jacobs
Mapoe
Ludik
November 16th, 2009 at 6:23 am
The dirt-track front row will be utterly smashed by Italy. In fact, the glory boys of the best possible front row are going to be crushed by Italy too.
A Bok scrum simply completely lacking the front-row grunt to destroy Italy?
Italy? Jeepers!
The times, they sure are a’ changin’ …
November 16th, 2009 at 6:25 am
#9 TheTackler: Yep, especially with New Zealand’s front row getting beaten by the Italians the week before.
Van der Linde is not a great scruming prop, never has been. I don’t know why every-one thinks he is going to sort out the scrum.
November 16th, 2009 at 6:31 am
Well, the Italians sure dealt to the second-string AB scrum. No doubt about that, and good on Mallett’s men. At least the ABs came away with a win, which is all that counts. But, rest assured, if you dare to field a discombobulated experimental legion against the Roman Empire, you’re marching to a crucifixion. It can get messy.
November 16th, 2009 at 6:38 am
#11 TheTackler: The Italians have a good scrum, both nothing else. The Boks can get massacred in the scrum and will still win easily. Brussouw will destroy them at the break down, the Boks will rule at the lineout and will dominate the tackle point.
November 16th, 2009 at 6:48 am
The Irish will be as up for it as the French were.
O Connell, O Gara and O Driscoll will be burning to put one over the Boks after losing the Lions series.
I await with morbid fascination to see the hits O Gara gets from Bismark, Bakkies and Schalk.
November 16th, 2009 at 6:53 am
#11 TheTackler: A4Y’s
November 16th, 2009 at 6:55 am
Did anyone notice that Sarries only had one Saffa in the side against the Ospreys? It looks like they rested them to play against the Boks.
It’ll be interesting to see how Johnson and Deysel get on against the likes of Ernst Joubert and WO against Barritt.
BTW, what’s this rubbish of calling it an FS front row? I thought CJ was a Leinster player?
November 16th, 2009 at 7:00 am
More Mnr Staal.Hoe lyk dinge?
November 16th, 2009 at 7:21 am
#15 David:
Brits
Reynecke
Van Heerden
Joubert
Melck
De Kock
Hougaard
Barrit
November 16th, 2009 at 7:35 am
#17 puff:
Yeah, Reyneke was the only one to play on Saturday. The loose trio contest should be a humdinger. My money’s on the Sarries trio. Always was a fan of Ernst and Wickus should give Pottie a lesson due to his experience. I actually see young Potgieter as a Wickus in the making.
November 16th, 2009 at 7:42 am
#7 puff: Seems that you do not know much about rugby
November 16th, 2009 at 7:47 am
i will pack out laughing if saracens & the italians smash the two-thirds of the much vaunted free state frontrowo smithereens. Then we will be back to square one.
November 16th, 2009 at 8:17 am
#20 Pearl Rose:
So what is your prediction, rugby is a simple game, isn’t it?
November 16th, 2009 at 8:19 am
#19 Charlie:
And you seem so observant
November 16th, 2009 at 8:20 am
#20 Pearl Rose:
I can just imagine the panic around here if that is going to happen.
November 16th, 2009 at 8:26 am
#20 Pearl Rose:
And that you will find amusing ? why ??
November 16th, 2009 at 8:35 am
#24 justrugby: because the fs frontrow is over-rated!
November 16th, 2009 at 8:39 am
#25 Pearl Rose: If that is the case i dont want to even think how poor the Sharks and current Boks front row is.
That Cheetahs front row moered them stupid!!
November 16th, 2009 at 8:40 am
#25 Pearl Rose:
The current one is (individually good players but don’t gel as a unit) , whether the one picked for Tues is , we don’t know, they certainly proved their worth in the CC.
Even if they were to be exposed at a higher level, it’s no laughing matter, well not to this Bok fan anyway !!
November 16th, 2009 at 8:41 am
En Tannie Kofski was useless, Ad is nie ‘n binnesenter nie, Beast was absent
November 16th, 2009 at 8:42 am
The midweek match is beginning to resemble a Springbok trial game. God help us if Sarries hammer us as we’ll have Grant10 screaming for all their Saffas to be brought back to SA.
November 16th, 2009 at 8:43 am
#20 Pearl Rose: Why , they showed against all local opposition that they were the best.
November 16th, 2009 at 8:44 am
If Spies played like Tannie Skofski did, we would have had an outrage this morning. I seriously think he must play 7’s
November 16th, 2009 at 8:45 am
#26 grant10:
Maybe that’s the point, G10. Maybe, just maybe we don’t have a front row good enough to compete, let alone dominate, the NH teams’ packs. That would be a travesty in itself.
Can you imagine?
November 16th, 2009 at 8:48 am
#30 capebull:
The best in SA, does not translate to the best in the world.
You can be the best sprinter in your school and still come stone last in the inter school’s competition.
November 16th, 2009 at 8:48 am
I wish Keo would start a new thread on Ras Dumisani.
I need a laff.
November 16th, 2009 at 8:50 am
Has anyone else picked up that with the Aussies hell bent on improving their physicality , scrum dominance and aggresive play at the breakdown, all good things I might add !!!!…..their back line suddenly looks sterile and devoid of penetration !!!!!
November 16th, 2009 at 8:52 am
#35 justrugby:
If Ireland drew with Australia, they will beat SA.
November 16th, 2009 at 8:53 am
JC, why is there nothing about the reduction of Heidelberg RC’s suspension on the site? You did run the story when it broke. It would just be good journalism to report on it now that it is finally concluded, don’t you think?
While I’m at it, can’t you keep us up to speed with the treatment against cancer of one of my all time favourites, Rob Louw, in the USA, please?
November 16th, 2009 at 8:56 am
That Ras Dumisani lost us the game.
November 16th, 2009 at 8:56 am
#35 justrugby:
“…their back line suddenly looks sterile and devoid of penetration !!!!!”
Let’s stick to rugby here, JR.
November 16th, 2009 at 8:56 am
#37 nama1:
Rob Louw has cancer?????
November 16th, 2009 at 8:58 am
#29 David: LOL…i will be chomping red meat and drukking my 10 kg dumbbells ….try and sort the kak out myself….
Rather put me at 3 vs Irish though…..very scared of those spaghetti boys after witnessing there demolition of the kiwi scrum!!
November 16th, 2009 at 8:59 am
#32 nama1: Sacriliege i tell you!
The Boks and Kiwis have gone soft….strange that the 2 x best scrums in the SH is Aussies and Argies!
November 16th, 2009 at 9:00 am
#35 justrugby: missed the game…but was ecstatic at the result…..BOD is the man!
November 16th, 2009 at 9:02 am
#35 justrugby: if they struggling to penetrate i know a good Pharmacist!
November 16th, 2009 at 9:02 am
#36 Dawn: Good morning young lady…..had a jorl Fri nite at Firemans Arms….
November 16th, 2009 at 9:03 am
#38 Dawn:
Just listened to his interview with John Robbie on 702. Just heard one of his songs – it was really good.
November 16th, 2009 at 9:04 am
#43 grant10: That guy is pure class mate.
November 16th, 2009 at 9:06 am
Fck the front row selections against the Italians. Who are we going to pick as singer? In the land of opera, this is potentially our biggest embarrassment of the entire tour. The way things are going for us, I wouldn’t be the least bit surprised if Div steps up to the mike and clears his throat.
November 16th, 2009 at 9:06 am
#47 Blindspot: yeah…..best on the planet….arguably of all time…..although Danie Gerber may sneak my vote.
November 16th, 2009 at 9:09 am
#44 grant10:
It’s one thing having the “goods”, it’s another thing altogether knowing what to do with it !!!
November 16th, 2009 at 9:09 am
Justrugby reckons the Bok front row look too clean cut…..perhaps he has a point….
Difficult to be intimidating if you all freshly shaved and smelling of Aqua Velva….
Check those Argies and Italians….French too….bloody front rows look like cavemen ….and smell of stale tobacco , beer and garlic…..
No wonder we get moered!!
November 16th, 2009 at 9:11 am
Aden Thomas on Cape Talk this morning interviewed our boy Ras and got him to sing it again over the radio live………..I thought he was worse this morning !!!!
November 16th, 2009 at 9:11 am
#50 justrugby: LOL….this is an undisputable fact!
November 16th, 2009 at 9:12 am
#52 justrugby: LOL….i was shocked to silence….the entire pub just came to a stunned silence!
November 16th, 2009 at 9:14 am
This is the best article written on Keo in a while. Totally agree JC! Our boys need rest!
November 16th, 2009 at 9:16 am
Have to agree with you on Danie Gerber mate – he was something special but current players BOD rocks
November 16th, 2009 at 9:18 am
WILL SOMEONE PLEASE TELL ME ABOUT ROB LOUW !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
November 16th, 2009 at 9:19 am
#35 justrugby: and the lineouts too, which for a decade were one of our biggest strongpoints.
That said, with the backs it’s hard to tell, as they are so bloody intent on kicking all possession away. The few times they spread it wide against Ireland they made huge ground.
#39 nama1:
November 16th, 2009 at 9:20 am
#52 justrugby: Did he have Ebony and Ivory, the special needs drummers, on the radio too? Or did that al dente pastafarian opt for a stirring a cappella rendition?
November 16th, 2009 at 9:22 am
Eish , what a disaster ! think it’s time we listen to Mr Tim Noakes. The guys are realy tired after a long season. Handling errors is something to realy get worried about. Lets hope these guys get some off time before the new seasons starts.
November 16th, 2009 at 9:22 am
#59 katman:
Ol’ Ras should lay off the doobie.
But when I heard it on the radio this morning I had to laugh.
Man it was kuk funny.
November 16th, 2009 at 9:24 am
#60 Andre_WP:
Don’t they get paid lots for these games.
How come no other country is using the “tired” excuse.
November 16th, 2009 at 9:24 am
#58 DonutDunning:
If they get the balance right, they will be the side to watch out for come 2011 !!
November 16th, 2009 at 9:24 am
#61 Dawn: I think Ras Dumisani is a shining example of what Tim Noakes was warning about. That’s burn-out, if ever I’ve seen it.
November 16th, 2009 at 9:25 am
#59 katman:
LOL….the latter !!
November 16th, 2009 at 9:27 am
#61 Dawn:
LOl…my daughter said that’s the first time she has heard someone sing worse than me !!!!……thank you Ras !!
November 16th, 2009 at 9:31 am
#66 justrugby:
Man, the look on Schalk Burger’s face was classic!
Ras is lucky to get away with his face intact!
November 16th, 2009 at 9:31 am
#57 Dawn:
Sorry Dawn, I was out for a while.
He is currently in the USA where he receives treatment for cancer. He underwent an operation two weeks ago to cut out the cancer from his intestines. His next treatment, which includes chemo, begins on 09/12/09.
He seems to be positive about the treatment and hope to be back home early next year.
November 16th, 2009 at 9:33 am
#48 katman:
I said a mayhem is brewing, sit back and enjoy!
Not surprisingly they don’t blame the Boks ‘management’, nor the Embassy officials, the department in SARU which is in charge of the travelling and overseas Tests’ arrangements (there is one) or the rag tag singer.
November 16th, 2009 at 9:33 am
#68 nama1:
That’s horrible.
I really like him.
One of the best.
November 16th, 2009 at 9:34 am
#22 puff:
November 16th, 2009 at 9:36 am
Just heard him resing the anthem on 702. Worse than the first time. He doesn’t even know the words. It was even more funny.
My word SA has talent.
November 16th, 2009 at 9:36 am
#58 DonutDunning:
Specifically, M Styen and FdP kicking possession away because they don’t know any better.
The alternative of passing to Jacobs isn’t an option and rightly so!
November 16th, 2009 at 9:40 am
“already exhausted Bok senior side”
is this jetlag from crossing all those time zones?
November 16th, 2009 at 9:40 am
Another thing – I used to scoff at old Rocky Elsom’s fingerless gloves. There was a time when many players wore them, but only Rocky has persisted. Like he thinks he’s the drummer for Poison. But after the amount of balls we coughed up on Friday, I’m having 22 pairs couriered up today.
November 16th, 2009 at 9:42 am
#70 Dawn:
Yeah. And yet nothing about it on SA’s favourite rugby blog, Keo.co.za.
I wonder if the fact that LW once dated Roxy has anything to do with it!!!
November 16th, 2009 at 9:42 am
#75 katman:
Listen.
The manne are tired.
Los uit.
November 16th, 2009 at 9:44 am
#76 nama1:
Ssshhh.
That isn’t funny!
Rob is a special guy.
November 16th, 2009 at 9:48 am
#73 Hondo:
Hondo, Hondo, Hondo.
Stop your ADI bashing. The man had a good enough game compared to some others on Friday night. Your perception of him makes you blind for the good thing that he did in every game he has played this year.
I will take you more serious if you also talk about the poor game that SB, Kanko, MS had every time you post here. Your failure to do so make it seems if you down ADI because of…
November 16th, 2009 at 9:49 am
#72 Blindspot:
Not unreasonable to assume that if it was Johnny Clegg they asked to perform there would have been no ramifications, right?
Maybe it was Leon Schuster in disguise?
November 16th, 2009 at 9:50 am
#80 Hondo:
Isn’t Johnny Clegg from Zim?
November 16th, 2009 at 9:53 am
#73 Hondo:
November 16th, 2009 at 9:53 am
#56 Blindspot: BOD is a vuilgat player that has forgotten all about rugby
During the BIL tour in SA he was the one that declined an offer to have post match drinks with the Boks, all other teams, All Blacks, Aussies etc do the couple of drinks with the Boks and there is no bad blood, but the BOD reckons he is above rugby
November 16th, 2009 at 9:54 am
#78 Dawn:
OK, sorry.
Yes, he is special. As I said, one of my all time favourites. Not just because of his rugby but also because he was open about his political stance in a time when it was not fashionable for whites to swim upstream.
November 16th, 2009 at 9:56 am
#60 Andre_WP: It does not matter what Tim says. The senior players wanted to go on this one. Many has not beaten France in France and that was the challenge. Now you do not just fly in for one test and then not the others, so yes they all know that they are tired but wanted the French and the Irish matches
November 16th, 2009 at 9:56 am
Let’s just put something right here. CJ isn’t part of the Cheetah front row. He hasn’t been for years. (Heck, he last played for Cheetahs when Jannie was still there and one or two seasons after Guthro left.)
WP Nel should have been there.
#80 Hondo: As an ex-player, Schuster wouldn’t dare messing up the anthem, so you can scratch that off the list. Heck, I can’t think of anyone, able to sing or not, who would sink to the level of this weekend, besides this rasta…
November 16th, 2009 at 9:56 am
#79 nama1: Ja well Nama1, I just love for that type of comments…
November 16th, 2009 at 9:57 am
#84 nama1:
Ja.
Him and Michael du Plessis.
November 16th, 2009 at 9:58 am
I wonder if the All Whites will be received by the SA locals as much as the All Blacks.
November 16th, 2009 at 9:59 am
Die Rasta sê hy het al twee Albums uit en sy verkope is goed. Maar hy moet net onthou dat almal wat hom luister gerook is, dan klink alles goed.
November 16th, 2009 at 10:00 am
Tannie kofski is nie moeg nie, net treurig.
November 16th, 2009 at 10:01 am
#87 Charlie:
Ja, well Charlie. Enjoying Hondo’s comment at 73 and not liking mine is an answer in itself.
November 16th, 2009 at 10:02 am
#87 Charlie:
LAUGH 
November 16th, 2009 at 10:03 am
#79 nama1:
SB was SB, he only performs when Juan Smith and JvN are the combo, seldom otherwise
And yes, he is deteriorating since the departure of Eddie Jones, in 2007 he learned how to off load at the tackle, but not anymore
Kanko should never been there in the first place, I kept saying it, not worth referring to, Vermulen and Albert are far better, let alone JvN.
MS: See my #73, R Potgieter, Meyer Bosman or Peter Grant if given a game time are all better because they have the option.
Pienaar is my first choice anyway.
I ran the replays on Jacobs twice, enough said.
November 16th, 2009 at 10:03 am
#92 nama1: Sorry
November 16th, 2009 at 10:03 am
#91 capebull: Daai ou was nog altyd over rated, hy is nie ‘n internasionale toets speler nie, selfde as Adi,Ndungane
November 16th, 2009 at 10:05 am
#94 Hondo: You ran the replays on Jacobs twice, what all 12 seconds of it?
November 16th, 2009 at 10:07 am
#90 capebull: and almal is gesuip vir Steve Hofmeyer. Think before you make a judgement. Reggae is far mor original than what is dished up by Steve to you Bulls supporters.
November 16th, 2009 at 10:07 am
#96 JL1: Nee , maar ons moes tot vervelens toe hoor dat Spies nie werk in tight games nie, ( what a load of rubbish) . Ons kon Vryadg sien hoe lyk ‘n speler wat net wil los speel.
November 16th, 2009 at 10:09 am
#98 kevin w: Waar kom jy vandaan speel die Rasta dan vir die Sharks, dit lyk so.
November 16th, 2009 at 10:10 am
#81 chch – welcome back Laulala:
Oh No!
He was born in the UK but was raised in SA, he sings in Zulu and English, a wonderful performer.
November 16th, 2009 at 10:11 am
#94 Hondo:
SB did perform well against the AB’s in the last test when none of the players you mention were involved. The also don’t play for WP or the Stormers where SB performs well more time than not.
#95 Charlie:
No problem. Everybody makes mistakes.
Just want Hondo to allow Adi that “privilege” also. He only sees the mistakes the man makes.
But enough of that.
November 16th, 2009 at 10:11 am
#98 kevin w: Of dink jy dalk die Rasta was goed, ek sal nie verbaas wees nie, ek het al vreemder goed gesien.
November 16th, 2009 at 10:14 am
#103 capebull: didn’t say he was good, but its immature to say that people listening to reggae are all stoned.
I’ll take Marley … you can keep Steve.
November 16th, 2009 at 10:15 am
#102 nama1: Remember we are just saying you need a different skill for 12 , AD has not got those. He has proven himself over and over at 13.
The same as Ruan is 9 not 10.
Tannie Kofski is a 7’s bok not 15 man
November 16th, 2009 at 10:17 am
#96 JL1: #97 JL1: BHWAAAAA !!!
November 16th, 2009 at 10:18 am
#89 chch – welcome back Laulala:
What are you talking about?
November 16th, 2009 at 10:18 am
#101 Hondo:
Maybe he travelled with a Zimbabwean passport in the days of the cultural boycott? I’m not sure, but that could be what’s confusing Laulala.
You know why there were a cultural boycott against SA, don’t you?
November 16th, 2009 at 10:19 am
#104 kevin w: OK I will say,
You are confussed, to appreciate that Rasta , you have to be stoned.
Do you argue that ???
At least with Bob you have a choice, not with that guy.
November 16th, 2009 at 10:19 am
#105 capebull: So a 12 needs to be a stampkar ?
November 16th, 2009 at 10:21 am
So why can CJ play, but not Jean De Villiers or Frans Steyn?
November 16th, 2009 at 10:21 am
Tim Noakes is correct. The guys get paid to tour and wont pass on the pound. This is sad but a reality. Sorta why I dont mind seeing Smittie go.
They return from the NH tour and the S14 training kicks off again after a couple of weeks. They need more down time.
We have plenty of players who could fill the void, of course if they selected on logic and not on race, old boys club or politics.
Adi, whom I also rated, must move over for Ebersholm,Pienaar or etc…this tour should have seen young blood or new faces. We should not make the same mistakes the Kiwis make by trying to win every game. We need to blood new guys and maybe take a loss.
November 16th, 2009 at 10:22 am
#107 Dawn:
Hi Dawn, how does the couch?
I am referring to the NZ national football team the All Whites. We just qualified for South Africa. Great crowd.
A Maori guy was holding up a big White Power banner
We have the most un-PC national sports team name
November 16th, 2009 at 10:22 am
#113 chch – welcome back Laulala:
How GOES the couch
November 16th, 2009 at 10:26 am
#98 kevin w: I love good reggae. But what this zolkop and his two djembe goons dished up on Friday was not reggae, and they’re certainly not musicians. Have a look on Youtube. Watch the white guy with the Marge Simpson dread stack. What’s he doing? Because he’s not drumming along with the mess we’re hearing. And what is the homeless guy next to him doing? They’re not even on the same planet, let alone the same hymn sheet. Maybe they’re trying to salvage the disaster brought about by the gangaman on the microphone. Maybe they’re playing it fast and loose, like improv jazz. Maybe they’re employing a sub-pentatonic scale and complex polyrhythm that we just don’t understand and appreciate.
I just suspect that the poor sod who ended up prostrate on the halfway line after attempting the ceremonial kick-off and failing on an epic scale would have looked like Jose Careras behind the mic compared to this lot.
November 16th, 2009 at 10:27 am
So what did Adi Jacobs do wrong ? Fact base please…
November 16th, 2009 at 10:27 am
#105 capebull:
Well, as far as I can tell by looking at the different 12’s playing for different teams, every coach has his preferred set of skills that he requires from his 12.
Do you think Henry would have played JdV, who does not have a good kicking game, at 12? No, I don’t think so. Does Henry’s opinion then make JdV a bad 12? No, I don’t think so. It’s just a question of what the coach prefer.
Maybe, PdV prefer the skills that Adi has at 12. It may not be your preference, but then, you’re not the coach.
November 16th, 2009 at 10:29 am
Kanko and Adi balance out Brussouw’s contribution by coughing up everything he steals. Jaque Fourie is probably sending JdV i miss you cards as we speak, not that he was great either. Zane deserves another chance though, but Burger’s tackling technique is shocking. No comment on the she-beast or the front row as a unit. Pieter Helium needs to swallow pride and rethink Smith at 3.
November 16th, 2009 at 10:29 am
#99 capebull: Ja ek sien hy het die bal ook gelos
November 16th, 2009 at 10:32 am
#105 capebull: Kanko and Raubenheimer are fast becoming the best rugby photographers in World Rugby
All they do is take photos
November 16th, 2009 at 10:33 am
#112 KevinRack:
For all his good attributes and wonderful schoolboy career, Eberson has not proven himself at senior level yet. Not to say that he won’t, but let’s not make another Chilli mistake here.
#111 kevin w:
The coach feels that he has adequate back up in those two positions.
November 16th, 2009 at 10:36 am
#112 KevinRack: Look Smit and many of the international players have a charit dinner in London, then there is the Barbarian game – no money there though, so killing a couple of birds with one stone
November 16th, 2009 at 10:37 am
apparently Ras Dumisani is Tackler’s father…
November 16th, 2009 at 10:38 am
#117 nama1: Spot on
November 16th, 2009 at 10:40 am
I’m sure you get a medicated cotton wool that won’t give the Boks a backrash.
November 16th, 2009 at 10:43 am
#115 katman:
Jissus you are a vretende kanker.
Ras Dumisani is now persona non grata.
We know!
November 16th, 2009 at 10:44 am
#115 katman: i am not saying he was great … but i made the point that it was immature to label it all around being stoned. Then everybody who like Steve Hofmeyer is gesuip on Brandy at Loftus. It’s just a stupid generalisation.
The embassy provided the list – why he was on there on;y they can answer.
But it’s sad to see that our ‘nasty” boks were sung / shouted / slurred out of the match. It’s a pathetic excuse for the players, coaches and fans to be using.
November 16th, 2009 at 10:45 am
Ras is kuk funny.
I can’t help it.
He had me laughing in the traffic on a Monday morning.
November 16th, 2009 at 10:48 am
I think on Friday Morne showed everyone what a match winner he really is for SA.
Because he had an off day we lost…
November 16th, 2009 at 10:55 am
#129 Bok fan:
Yes, you right. But if we start to rely on one man to win us every game, we’re in trouble. Imagine him having an off day in a WC semi or final!!!
November 16th, 2009 at 11:05 am
#130 nama1: If you look at RSA rugby teams, all the teams use a strong 12 ( you are right NZ does not/ Auz do ) so AD does not fit that mold , he’s cause of his size much better at 13, cause he has more space. We play a game that the 12 must take a lot of contact, then again AD is a runner not a big guy to take contact.
November 16th, 2009 at 11:07 am
#110 Charlie: Thats the way we play , I do not agree with it , but that a fact.
Barry, JdV, Barrit, WO, Bosman, Grant , Swanepoel weighs 100kg
November 16th, 2009 at 11:09 am
#127 kevin w: He was rubbish , the only way you can appreciate him is if you are stoned.
November 16th, 2009 at 11:18 am
131 capebull & 132 capebull:
It is obvious then that PdV prefer something else than the rest of the coaches, at least for now. Whose to say he is not right? Only time will tell.
November 16th, 2009 at 11:19 am
#130 nama1: Or getting injured for a couple of years like Wilkinson!
November 16th, 2009 at 11:21 am
#89 chch – welcome back Laulala: They will be happily received. They were here for the Confederations Cup. Congrats on them making 2010!
By the way, I love the song the Saders sang for Laulala at his last game for the black and reds.
“lau la la….lau la la…hey hey hey….good bye…”
November 16th, 2009 at 11:22 am
#130 nama1: Luckily he doesnt have too many off days. Actually the first one I’ve seen this year
November 16th, 2009 at 11:25 am
#134 nama1: Time will not tell, it was told on Friday, AD lost almost all the balls in contact in that channel.
November 16th, 2009 at 11:31 am
Viva Ras you da man mon, you managed do fok op die hele bok span voor die eerste skop.
Musta been the guys still giggling through the first 30 min that put them off their game.
Actually the loss came about purely by one moments loss of composure. Straight after John Smit was gifted an open try which he himself couldn’t quite believe, directly from kick off Kanko gets nailed by Harinordoquy spilling the kick directly in French hands. 3 missed SB tackles later and not a wing or center or full back defender in sight and they’ve scored in the corner. That was the turning point in the game right there. That spilled kick by Kanko cost us the match, thats the thing that gave them belief they could take us. We didn’t score another point from there throughout second half and played off back foot right through.
November 16th, 2009 at 11:41 am
Have SA forgotten how to scrim at all?! The tightheads don’t anchor properly & hooker/loosehead don’t get a propper shoulder in. As a unit the guys don’t get a propper hit-in. Some of the rules just dont make sence any more. How on earth does a prop get a proper bind on the other guy with these tight jearseys? Rule needs to be re-looked. Generally, we scrummed poorly because France pulled back in almost every scrum, causing our boys to loose the bind and go down. Ref never picked up on this. SA needs to spend a couple of hours on the old scrum-machine again!
November 16th, 2009 at 11:47 am
#140 Beast: All about coaches:
Wp got -Proudfoot in
Cheats got OS in
Bulls uses Balie
Sharks use no-one
Bokke uses Gold
Gold could not teach Stormers how to scrum
November 16th, 2009 at 11:47 am
Jacobs was the only back trying to breach the gain line unfortunately when you have two half backs like Fdp and Steyn who don’t actually have a clue what to do when a running game is required everybody else is left stranded and flat footed. Bulls patroon don’t work then you have to adapt. Fdp and M. Steyn are as limited and one dimensional as they come, expect more of the same before somebody recognizes the malady and breaks the stagnancy and moves on.
November 16th, 2009 at 11:50 am
I see Bulls are trying to sign Charl Heyman former NZ prop. Only problem is , he does,nt understand the words of Blou Bul vreet nie van vloer af nie.
Jurie is blykbaar in NZ besig om hom te leer, as hy tyd af het , met sy besige hofsaak, maar dit lyk of sy opponent besig is om Klei te trap.
November 16th, 2009 at 11:51 am
#142 skopskiet: Tipies Shark support , AD is ‘n 13 nie ‘n 12 nie en Konko was useless verby
November 16th, 2009 at 11:55 am
Skop en trek rugby is so fundamentally one dimensional and boring and once you worked it out dead easy to counter against that unless this team develops a couple more strings to our bow we not going to progress one little bit from Friday night. Fdp and M. Steyn a big part of the problem.
November 16th, 2009 at 11:55 am
“Wian du Preez, Adriaan Strauss and CJ van der Linde are picked to front Saracens, a powerful Free State combination that should provide the South Africans with stability at scrum time.”
DONT COUNT ON IT. CJ was manhandled like a girl when he came on in the last game. he is experienced but inconsistent. i have never rated him as a dominent tighthead.
Saracens, Italy will screw him at scrumtime. Look at what Italians did to AB chokers??.
the Italians will back themselves against us especially after AB game and they will target the scrum weakness.
November 16th, 2009 at 11:55 am
#142 skopskiet: You are talking rubbish. Adi Jacobs got turned over when he ran crap lines without support, trying to play crash ball. There was one moment in the game when he ran into the entire French backrow, with the ball being stolen. If he cannot be dominant at the tackle point as a 12, you can’t play there, unless (like the Aussies often do) you are willing to give the ball to your 13 to take it up.
For all your attempts to make Jacobs sound like a rare talent and Steyn and du Preez sound crap, Jacobs did not once pass the ball to Jacque Fourie, didn’t beat any players and got turned over almost every-time he got the ball. It has to also be said, a lot of the ball he got was so slow because Kankowski and the Beast weren’t willing to hit any rucks, but Jacobs was crap. Unfortunately, most of the other Boks were also crap.
November 16th, 2009 at 11:55 am
#141 capebull: Absolutely agreed! Os made a huge diffirence with the Cheetahs as did Proudfoot with WP. Both these teams, to my dismay, murdered the Bulls. Shows what should be done!
November 16th, 2009 at 11:58 am
#145 skopskiet: So two players who have dominated every-one this year are suddenly crap? Almost all the Bok tries come from du Preez, and Steyn is the best running flyhalf in South Africa at the moment (probably because he is the only player that you can call a flyhalf).
November 16th, 2009 at 12:04 pm
#145 skopskiet: If you actually understand rugby , you will know that if the T5 battles , so will the rest.
November 16th, 2009 at 12:06 pm
#137 Bok fan:
One hopes that he does not make a habit of it. I think he’ll be OK this Saturday. Remember, it’s his first tour with the Boks to the NH. New experience and all, and all. Can’t remember if he ever played there!!!
#138 capebull:
You can’t really tell after one game, Capebull.
November 16th, 2009 at 12:10 pm
#129 Bok fan: Morne was in actuall fact the match loser on Friday. He got sin-binned which added too much pressure to get into the game plus his many pointless up and unders that got carried away by the wind.
So Morne is to bl… Wait! No, what am I saying? Its the anthems fault we lost, not Morne’s pathetic performance
November 16th, 2009 at 12:14 pm
Jacobs might have run wrong lines according to his support runners but where were they, no back up whatsoever?
Also Schalk for all his mayhem tackling misses more than he nails.
Kanko is a dead loss. CJ hardly any better. Danie is past tense. Bakkies and Victor were both bullied didn’t know quite what hit them. Brussow and Smit the only 2 forwards producing any sustained pressure.
Behind pack Kanko Fdp and Morne were providing zero workable ball. Steyn stands far too deep in the pocket to provide attack mode ball. Its the wrong game to play this kick n chase stuff every time. When Steyn went off to the bin we suddenly started some momentum but didn’t get past the breakdown getting turned over at the tackle point.
A flat hard running Fh with a quick distributing scrum half much more effective than a couple half backs that know one thing only, put boot to leather and hope for the best.
November 16th, 2009 at 12:23 pm
#152 The Dude: That was my point. He had a shocker and we lost.
Had Kanko played as well as Brussouw, we still would have lost but if Morne had played his usual game, we would have scrapped through.
November 16th, 2009 at 12:24 pm
Your flyhalf is crucial, especially if he’s the kicker as well
November 16th, 2009 at 12:26 pm
Brussow was awesome… I literally lost count of all the turnovers he won… would love to see the stats…
best player on the park… IMO
He has to get the IRB newcomer of the year award…
November 16th, 2009 at 12:29 pm
Not sure about you all laying the blame at Jacobs feet. He at least got his tackles in. Problem was that on attack, he had no support runners helping him out when he got isolated. Where was Brussow, Schalk and Kanko or even JF?
Not saying Adi had a great game but I certainly didn’t think he was the one to blame out there.
The blame lies at a tired forward pack, Victor, Bakkies, Beast, Bismarck, all didn’t feature like they usually do. Hope we rest them against Italy.
My side against Italy would be:
1. Wian Du Preez
2. Andries Strauss
3. CJ Van der Linde
4. Danie Roussow
5. Andries Bekker
6. Schalk Burger
7. Dewald Potgeiter (c)
8. Ashley Johnson
9. Ruan Pienaar
10. Morne Steyn
11. Bryan Habana
12. Adi Jacobs
13. Jacques Fourie
14. JP Pietersen
15. Zane Kirchner
16. Bismarck Du Plessis
17. John Smit
18. Victor Matfield
19. Heindrich Brussouw
20. Jean Deysel
21. Frans Hougaard
22. Wynand Olivier
November 16th, 2009 at 12:30 pm
#156 ufo:
Congratulations to the Frogs…!!
Now at least we all know who are the real butcher boys of world rugby….!!
Within 15 minutes Bakkies, Victor and John were all bleeding…!! What’re the odds…?
November 16th, 2009 at 12:33 pm
Biggest factor in the lose.
How do you play an 80 minute game with 14 men for 60 minutes? Its never going to work.
November 16th, 2009 at 12:33 pm
#159 Oubaas2009: Sorry meant, 14 men for 20 minutes!
November 16th, 2009 at 12:38 pm
#145 skopskiet: So the Player of the Year and the Players’ Player of the Year is the weak link in our side?
November 16th, 2009 at 12:38 pm
#159 Oubaas2009:
Biggest factor in the loss…
We played kak rugby… pure and simple…
November 16th, 2009 at 12:39 pm
We actually got left stranded in no mans land this year. We think we progressed since 2008, well I.m saying we deluding ourselves. Steyn won some games with some pretty impressive place kicking that about sums up the entire success of our 2009 year. Plus the fact that we pressurized Nz and Lions into mistakes adopting this new dangle approach this kick n chase einstein rugby ploy. Without the advent of Brussow at breakdown and M. Steyn off the kicking tee this team would have been no way better than they were in 2008. Whats worse is noone can even see it. At least towards end of 2008 we saw some progress against Aus in Ellis Park and England at Twickenham. Since then we’ve reverted to staid old up n under zero back line efficiency rugby. Fdp and M. Steyn two of the main proponents of this low risk style non evolving rugby that we become so enamoured with because it wins games in the Sh when oppo make all the mistakes or ref blowing in our favor at the tackle point.
We had every opportunity to progress and evolve, instead we love to retreat into our comfort zones and play boring one dimensional non creative rugby. We made the biggest mistake ditching an all out total rugby approach because captain and senior players threw their tantrums about not wanting to evolve and revert back to our winning ways style instead. So now we have a fly half who stands so deep Naas Botha would have problems getting close to him, and a scrum half that choke’s any momentum through either kicking everything away or losing the impetus through the back line with his slow pedantic service.
Give me an attack minded half back pair any day of any week over a 10 from 10 kicking machine. Long as my forwards produce front foot ball I’ll win most games by scoring tries while you rack up your 3 point penalties.
November 16th, 2009 at 12:44 pm
#163 skopskiet: So you don’t think every time Adi Jacobs took a fith+ phase ball on the crashtackle and got turned over lost us any momentum?
November 16th, 2009 at 12:45 pm
#163 skopskiet: Seems like you have all the answers. Only thing is they don’t make sense.
November 16th, 2009 at 12:51 pm
#149 WOLFMAN21:
‘Steyn is the best running flyhalf in South Africa’
And I’m Tina Turner.
November 16th, 2009 at 12:53 pm
Skopskiet,
You are in denail. The Super 14 and the Currie Cup in one season say it all. You state that Danie Rossouw is past tense. I refer you to Sir Alex Ferguson’s (Google his name) viewpoint: one weak performance does not make a player past tense.
November 16th, 2009 at 12:55 pm
i don’t mean to be funny but if we don’t field our strongest team against Italy we run the very serious risk of losing every single game on this tour.
November 16th, 2009 at 12:56 pm
#167 Lang Giel:
Fantastic football manager. Sad excuse of a human being.
November 16th, 2009 at 12:57 pm
#163 skopskiet:
Hi Skop
The problem with an all out attack is that most sides are so defensively organised these day that trying to break down defenses is becoming increasingly more difficult.
Also with eveyone employing out and out fetches who’s primary function is slow ball down and win turnovers, gives sides the luxury of organising defenses, the nett result is the kicking game.
The answer lies somewhere in between, knowing when it’s “on” vs just kicking it away !! this is where perhaps our half backs can improve, I think it’s more a decision thing than and ability issue !!
November 16th, 2009 at 1:04 pm
#166 Die_Valk: Check my comment after that. Who is better than him? Pienaar? Not a chance. Herkie Kruger? Peter Grant who plays most games at 12? The best would then be Steyn or JLP.
November 16th, 2009 at 1:05 pm
#170 justrugby: We saw where attack minded rugby got us last year.
November 16th, 2009 at 1:06 pm
#170 justrugby:
Amen.
France varied their game perfectly, and were unlucky not to win by more. They used to be pretty prancing ponies who had the ability to score the best team-tries in history and yet not be a real force.
You could say their old team and ours are polar opposites, but they’ve become more robust (to put it mildly) and yet have not lost that creative spark.
We need a little more ingenouity, that’s all. That’s largely down to gifted, specialist coaching in my view.
I am ignoring our current technical problems on the field, I just feel as if that’s the big picture.
November 16th, 2009 at 1:09 pm
#171 WOLFMAN21:
I’m not saying he’s not our best flyhalf, but you’d have to look far and wide for a worse runner.
I’d imagine he could have been a great one as he’s intelligent enough, but he does not have any pace whatsoever.
November 16th, 2009 at 1:12 pm
#172 WOLFMAN21:
Don’t shoot it down because it failed in 2008. Our players have the ingredients, they just need some astute coaching.
Look at 1998 for instance, I’ve not felt that kind of euphoria even when we won the World Cup. It was breathtaking.
November 16th, 2009 at 1:16 pm
#166 Die_Valk: Kan jy die volkslied sing?
November 16th, 2009 at 1:21 pm
T5 performance is a non negotiable facet of the game. Thats why if I were coach I’d have picked the performing front row in the Cc and not the one based on twenty voetsek reputation. Why they take Sharks and Bulls front row when it was actually Cheetah’s and Stormers front rows that were doing the business. Why take Kankowski and Roussouw when far better 8th men and 2nd row locks available.
Its too late bar the shouting now but if were me I would have taken this team to Nh and can vouch would have performed better than we have.
Du Preez, Blaauw, vd Merwe
Liebenberg, Strauss, Maku
Nel, Buys, Smit
Botha, Sykes
Matfield, Bekker, Hargreaves
Brussow, Potgieter
Deysel, Mokuena
Vermeulen, Johnson, Alberts
Pretorius, Hougaard, Adams
Pienaar, M. Steyn, Rose
Le Grange, Grant, De Jongh
Jacobs, WO, Fourie
Habana, Mapoe
JPP, Joe Pietersen
Viljoen, Kirchner
And my starting A side would go something like this. We would have done no worse than we have and perhaps more than likely a whole lot better.
Du Preez
Liebenberg
Nel
Botha
Matfield
Brussow
Deysel
Vermeulen
Pretorius
Pienaar
Habana
Le Grange
De Jongh
Fourie 14
M. Steyn
Vd Merwe / Blaauw
Strauss / Maku
Buys / Smit
Bekker
Alberts / Potgieter
Hougaard
Viljoen
November 16th, 2009 at 1:24 pm
#174 Die_Valk: Flyhalf stocks are very depleted after Steyn. I think he’s great but look what comes after him in the CC or S14.
Ruan Pienaar – still finding himself. Much better at 9 anyway.
JLP – decent CC player but certainly not an international flyhalf.
Herkie Kruger – useless
Peter Grant – spends most of his time at 12 now days. Can’t dominate a game from 10.
Best other options????
Have to resurrect Butch’s knees perhaps? Doubt he’s got 2011 in him.
Burton Francis? Untried?
Frans Brummer? Untried?
Guy Cronje? Small & Untried?
Frans Steyn? How many times will he prove to us he’s not a 10!
Is there anyone else? Gone blank on who was at 10 for WP in the CC?
November 16th, 2009 at 1:26 pm
#177 skopskiet: Thank god your not a selector!
November 16th, 2009 at 1:26 pm
Can almost guarantee my team above would have dealt with France far better than our 2007 model did. Pretty much convinced about it 100%.
November 16th, 2009 at 1:28 pm
PDV has a huge dilemma. He is ‘asking’ senior players whether they are ‘prepared ‘ to be rested. He reverts to game plans of old as a result of senior player interventions…..He has compromised till the cows come home.
My advice to PDV is plain and simple…..do what you believe in….go on your own instincts…..yes…there will be outcrys and emotional outbursts…..but PDV know 1 thing….this boat is springing leaks…..and those same self senior players that insist on playing to deepen the bank balances will not be there to say we were too tired and should of stayed at home rather.
At the end of the day you PDV will be the one facing the firing squad….not the senior players .
I am not advocating a dictatorship….but i get the impression that a few ’senior’ boks got too much sway in that set up.
November 16th, 2009 at 1:32 pm
#178 Oubaas2009: Toomua and w de waal.
November 16th, 2009 at 1:34 pm
#176 capebull:
Elke woord. Het koor gesing.
November 16th, 2009 at 1:34 pm
#182 grant10: Oh ja.
Well Toomua is an Aussie and as good as WDW has played over the years in the CC, I don’t think he’s our answer as backup for Morne Steyn.
Never thought of it like this. But we are in serious kak. No wonder PDV is trying to conjour up a flyhalf out of Ruan.
November 16th, 2009 at 1:34 pm
Yes JC, I agree. The team to face Italy should be:
Wiaan
Strauss
CJ
Danie
Bekker
Brussow (C) (needed to win and people will follow him!)
Deysel
Kanko (we need to develop his tight game) or Potgieter/Johnson (whoever plays better Tuesday)
Ruan
Morne
Habana
Adi
Fourie
JPP
Kirchner
Bench (important to have the big boyz in case)
Bissie
Smit
Bakkies
Victor
Potgieter/Johnson/Kanko/Schalk
FdP
Wynand
November 16th, 2009 at 1:36 pm
#178 Oubaas2009:
Again, I do agree that he’s currently the best.
November 16th, 2009 at 1:36 pm
I’m not going to drop them all at the first sign on difficulty, if that had happened, we would never have won the RWC07 and we’d be back in the strauli era handing out caps like smarties or worse with harry viljoen who invented a cutting edge game plan each week, like no-kicking, only to nearly lose to argentina.
The SA mindset is prone to very between too conservative and as flakey as one can get – a balance is needed but even the overly conservative mindset of old produced the best teams in the world, which tells you were the bias should be.
Ou doos style will always win more games.
November 16th, 2009 at 1:37 pm
#181 grant10: You’re just upset John Smit tuned your boyfriend in his new book!
November 16th, 2009 at 1:38 pm
#181 grant10:
PdV is a professional, we are all just armchair critcs that are very passionate, but talk more sh1t than anything, you more than most. The only advice PdV needs to take is not to read this board.
November 16th, 2009 at 1:41 pm
#184 Oubaas2009: i hope the young u 21 flyhalf Lionel Cronje puts his hand up for WP and Stormers….
Cupboards bare….MS goes down its an unhappy Ruan at 10.
November 16th, 2009 at 1:42 pm
#188 Ratel Brussow (MSIUR): Ja….LW will hopefully turn the other cheek and not stoop to the same levels that Smitty did.
November 16th, 2009 at 1:42 pm
#156 ufo: He must get IRB player of the year – there are few candidates who have made as much impact as Brussow – he had a good game on a losing side on Friday
The Boks did look jaded . After all the hype of the Boks physicality , they looked scared and overwhelmed
The scrum has now become a critical issue – if the Boks do not get this right immediately , dont expect them to beat Ireland and they will have a frustrating time against the Ities. They gave away 9 points at least to scrum penalties – you just cant win test matches this way.
November 16th, 2009 at 1:44 pm
Was nothing wrong with Grant or Pienaar at Fh before they ruined them both. Also nothing wrong with JL Potgieter’s potential.
The mistake in 2008 was playing Fdp and Butch instead of January and Grant or Pienaar. If we would have bitten the bullet in 2008 we would have been all the way down the road by now.
Problem with Sa rugby is they so damn chicken coward to get out of their one track mind conservative cowardice, they never progress at all till someone or something forces them to do it. Look at Jw staring down the barrel of no hope strategy not knowing which way to turn so he gets in an outsider who shows him the way.
Bunch of sissyfied cowards that cannot see potential while its staring them in the face always reverting to dead and buried old hat options. Was the biggest mistake reverting to Butch James last year and biggest mistake not taking the crash ball running game approach with Grant at pivot January at 9- what did Fdp and Butch offer us, 3 losses on the trot. Kak sleg option should never have chickened out. Bang f.ng broek’s thats Sa rugby coaches and tactical geniuses for you.
November 16th, 2009 at 1:44 pm
#189 cab: Sound advice
#178 Oubaas2009: Our flyhalf stocks are better than they’ve been for years, you’re just to blind to see it. Morne Steyn has broken just about every record this year FFS.
November 16th, 2009 at 1:44 pm
#189 cab: Thanks…very nice of you.
November 16th, 2009 at 1:45 pm
#192 stew: according to a lot of bloggers the scrums are more than acceptable.
November 16th, 2009 at 1:46 pm
#194 Ratel Brussow (MSIUR): I think he is talking about 10 backup.
November 16th, 2009 at 1:47 pm
#191 grant10: And suddenly, it all makes sense why you want JS out. Sentimentality!
November 16th, 2009 at 1:48 pm
#197 grant10: Pienaar and Grant used to be 1st choice.
November 16th, 2009 at 1:51 pm
Pdv wanted to progress John Smit Victor Matfield Juan Smith and co all pulled back and bailed out.
Now we stuck somewhere half way in between.
Problem is I don’t think Pdv got the courage to take those tough calls because all those around him have blunted his vision. Now its one compromise after the next.
Go for f.ng broke I tell you stuff the rest of them.
November 16th, 2009 at 1:52 pm
Some people need to get over the childish notion that JS (being the legend he is) and other senior playes as well, are not open to critism.
If they are not on form , or if they are playing out of possition this forum allows people to voice those opinions, I don’t care if JS is the greatest captain and the finest gentleman around, that is secondary, if he is not currently delivering then it should be highlighted and discussed without all the freekin sensitivity !!!
Leave our Captain, don’t touch our legend etc etc……….well all of us agree with these sentiments but a pity a few cannot see past this idolisation in order for them to question themeselves honestly !!!
November 16th, 2009 at 1:52 pm
#196 grant10: It seems NZ scrumming also under-fire. The 2 best teams in the world, whining about the scrums. maybe someone should listen?
November 16th, 2009 at 1:53 pm
We simply lacked proper execution against a very fired up French side.
Rugby is a game where 80 minutes of full committment is needed and we did not show that.
If we are looking to fix things simply ask why this is.
November 16th, 2009 at 1:54 pm
#198 Ratel Brussow (MSIUR): can we have an adult chat today?
Go see my posts Sat morning. Smit and Brussow were the only Boks worthy of the name on Fri nite.
I clearly would like Smit at 2….he adds stability to the front row from there….and the way he played he would, on merit , deserve to leap frog Bissy.
Clearly you believe the Bok front row as is is okay.
So lets just leave this tired debate now….we will see who is right or wrong…perhaps a lot sooner than you think.
November 16th, 2009 at 1:55 pm
#157 Oubaas2009:
Somebody with some sense.
Blame him if he plays badly, not just for the sake of it.Up until Friday night he could not tackle to save his life according to some. Then he had a very good game defensively. Now they have to find something else to blame him for, like running away from his support runners.
The support runners must make sure that they keep up with the ball carier, was how I always understood the game to be played. I guess in Adi’s case everything got switched around as long as he is the villain in the story after all being said and done.
November 16th, 2009 at 1:56 pm
#196 grant10: I watched the game 3 times on the weekend – believe me the penalty count at scrum time is scary ! 3 penalties in the second half in front of the polls !
November 16th, 2009 at 1:57 pm
#205 nama1:
Adi is the least of our concerns.
November 16th, 2009 at 1:57 pm
#201 justrugby: We have had a fantastic year and to make sweeping changes at this stage would be stupid. However legendary Schalk should be booted so far from that test side its a joke. Kanko too. The other veterans need rest. Play Kanko against Italy and Danie against Ireland.
November 16th, 2009 at 1:58 pm
#202 Ratel Brussow (MSIUR): Italy absolutely moered the Kiwis sat…i watched and literally have never seen a All Black team [ given a 2 nd string that is ] get so moered!
It is a SH issue….Argies and Aussies are fine …but Boks and Kiwis in disarray.
Mallet is a stickler for the getting it right at the set phases…damn i was proud of what he achieved with that Italian pack.
November 16th, 2009 at 2:00 pm
#206 stew: It is a disaster….but it will be fixed…Gold and PDV will make some calls there….i am sure of it.
November 16th, 2009 at 2:00 pm
#209 grant10:
And its interesting that Arg and Aus does not have the same play-load on their players as SA and NZ
November 16th, 2009 at 2:03 pm
Kanko is now the villain of the peace….Adi and the halfbacks being fingered….Schalk as well….
I consider that very unfair….
Its damn hard when the tight 5 is being smashed…..
That tight 5 were destroyed…VM and B Botha as well….
Thats always been my point….when the scrum …and on Fri the lineouts too…get pressurised the cancer spreads….and often the blame gets deflected….
November 16th, 2009 at 2:03 pm
#188 Ratel Brussow (MSIUR): John Smit aparently says in his book that at kamp Staaldraad they spread their ass cheeks looking for contraband and at the end says that if he had the chance to do it again, he would. WTF!
Is John Smit gay?
Obviously JS is looking for a nice retirement nest egg and needed a controversial book to out sell Joost’s crack cocaine, whoring book.
He is getting killed at scrum time, and knows the end is near. What better timing to sell out a player he captained and make a buck. No rocket science there.
Next year part II will come out, a tell all on Schalk maybe. Then, he’ll pick on someone else he captained for more cash.
Soul selling is an addictive business.
November 16th, 2009 at 2:04 pm
#206 stew: How many ruck penalties did France give away? To me a penalty count of 14 to 5 seems a bit one sided for a game that was in the balance for most of it. Even if you take out the 3 scrum penalties 11 – 5.
#204 grant10: But when on form Bissie and possibly Tiaan outplay Smit. And this is where you’re little koo starts. At 3 JS is the best option in SA when everybody is on form. How long would it take for you to start shouting for PdV to drop JS from hooker? 1 season, a couple of bad games? Lets just trust in a side that has played so well this season. I believe fatigue is the real reason.
November 16th, 2009 at 2:04 pm
#207 PissAnt:
Then people like Hondo should stop putting him down and concentrate on the real problems we have.
November 16th, 2009 at 2:05 pm
#208 Ratel Brussow (MSIUR):
Schalk still got plenty to offer the Boks, as for Kanko, in the right conditions I also think he has still got something to offer. He has not taken his opportunities therefore will need a big game in his next outing, if he gets a shot against Italy he will need the game of his life.
He is not a bad player ,he seems to lack confidence and a bit of the intimidating/imposing factor.
For his sake i hope the sharks pack next year allow him front foot ball as this when he comes into his own.
Schalk will always be on my teamsheet, I am biased though !!
November 16th, 2009 at 2:09 pm
#216 justrugby:
I want to see any loosie shine when his tight 5 is being shafted…
Brussow had reasonable success only on defense and that is mainly thanks to his pace around the park.
November 16th, 2009 at 2:09 pm
#205 nama1:
That first line should read: Finally, someone that agrees with me.
Nothing against you, but people’s list of ‘guys who talk sense’ mostly consist of those who are in agreement with them.
#213 rossoneri:
Rubbish, look at our recent matches. The other side of the scrum is the liabilty.
November 16th, 2009 at 2:10 pm
#216 justrugby: #212 grant10: Lets be honest,
Schalk played with injury and he should’nt have played.
If your T5 struggle why the is your number 8 standing on the wing ??
Ad lost to many balls trying to run crash ball at 12.
November 16th, 2009 at 2:10 pm
#211 PissAnt: Fatigue certainly has a massive role in these performances…without doubt at all.
November 16th, 2009 at 2:12 pm
#219 capebull:
Agree ……..games won and lost with a competitve T5
November 16th, 2009 at 2:12 pm
#216 justrugby: So what you are saying is play Kanko against the minno’s and he will shine. Just keep him away from the physical stuff. Why do the Sharks want to buy Alberts if Kanko is so great ?
November 16th, 2009 at 2:12 pm
Where is Keo’s column or did Ras put him off also? Or is he maybe Ras? There was some kind of resemblance.
November 16th, 2009 at 2:13 pm
#217 PissAnt:
Agreed. As in every sphere of life, most things can be judged by how it performs under strain.
November 16th, 2009 at 2:15 pm
#212 grant10: Come on Grant, don’t look at things in isolation. Kanko lost the ball so much in contact it was an embarrassment. Had nothing to do with set pieces as he often lost the ball from phase play or broken play. Schalk got bounced 3 time and did nothing at all, he also lost the ball a plenty. Brussow had a great game fetching behind an out-muscled pack. Hard to do. Yes we struggled at the set-pieces but our ‘rested’ loose forwards were terrible.
November 16th, 2009 at 2:16 pm
#222 capebull:
Kanko has shown in the S14 what a good player he can be, it could be that he is one of those players that battle to make the step up !!
November 16th, 2009 at 2:16 pm
#218 Die_Valk:
Thanks for the lesson,Mr Falcon. Will try to remember it.
November 16th, 2009 at 2:17 pm
#212 grant10:
“Kanko is now the villain of the peace…”
well if you disturb the peace… you are a villain…
Thing is we’ve got to bring in a system where the Boks are rested and play fewer games during the domestic season… Resting the Boks for Tests is daft and illogical…
It’s like electing a government minister… paying him his salary… and telling him not to come to parliament…
November 16th, 2009 at 2:17 pm
Schalk is klaar oo much pumishment to that physique already and a mind that is not bullet proof even if he thinks it is, I would call it off if I’m Schalk he’s liable to really hurt himself one day if he’s not careful
Kanko never been a tight playing 8, fine in S14 or CC where its all open and flash but not in tests never.
Best T5 for the moment is the one I put up earlier
Du Preez / Blaauw
Liebenberg
Nel / Buys / Smit
Bakkie
Victor non negotiable for now though Bekker had a better game Friday than either of them
Loose trio
Brussow
Deysel / Potgieter
Vermeulen / Alberts
FDP and M.Steyn only good in a kicking duel, very limited as a go forward option. You want to know where the cancer in the back line is, look no further than there.
November 16th, 2009 at 2:18 pm
#214 Ratel Brussow (MSIUR): Then Smit from bench….we cannot carry anyone….simple.
Currently though i believe Beast and Bissy are kaput moeg…and would play them from bench.
November 16th, 2009 at 2:18 pm
Back later !!
November 16th, 2009 at 2:19 pm
#226 justrugby: Now we agree , Kanko is a good player at S14 level, sometimes spectacular , but not a test player.
Ruan seem to have the same problem
November 16th, 2009 at 2:19 pm
#227 nama1:
The very fact that there wasn’t any swearing/insults in your comment already says a lot.
And I do agree with most of your views.
November 16th, 2009 at 2:20 pm
#216 justrugby: In that case, heed your own advice: “Some people need to get over the childish notion” that SB “(being the legend he is) and other senior playes as well, are not open to critism.”
Schalk has done nothing to warrant his selection for the boks for 18-24 months. The best game he had was when he made that monster hit on FdP, well one tackle doesn’t make a bok.
November 16th, 2009 at 2:22 pm
#225 Ratel Brussow (MSIUR): agree….Brussow and Smitty the only standouts.
November 16th, 2009 at 2:24 pm
Crying over spilt milk is not going to change much. The question is, what happens if the so-called “A”-frontrow (in some peoples eyes) get drilled tomorrow? Where does that leave us with Saturdays test in mind?
November 16th, 2009 at 2:25 pm
Dont know if you guys watch Italy vs New Zealand this weekend. Right at the end of the game, they packed down for 12 scrums in a row. NZ got so many penalties, a yellow card was dished out at them and the ref should have awarded a penalty tri.
The NZ pack was under huge pressure, props not binding under immens pressue, drifting, front row poping up and and and…
Bottom line – Italy had them in all knotted up.
I understand that the the first line of boks need a rest but if we lose to Italy come Saturday because we fielded a second string Scrum, we will be at our lowest point in a long, long time.
November 16th, 2009 at 2:26 pm
#217 PissAnt: Brussow was nothing short of brilliant.
#229 skopskiet: “FDP and M.Steyn only good in a kicking duel, very limited as a go forward option. You want to know where the cancer in the back line is, look no further than there.” Wow, I think I’ll have to stop reading your posts.
November 16th, 2009 at 2:28 pm
Best side they would have used this tour one more time
Du Preez
Liebenberg
Nel
Botha
Matfield
Brussow
Deysel
Vermeulen
Pretorius/Hougaard
Pienaar/M.Steyn
Habana
De Jongh
Jacobs
Fourie (wing)
Viljoen
Bench
Blaauw / Vd Merwe
Bismarck
Smit
Bekker
Alberts / Potgieter
FdP
Kirchner
November 16th, 2009 at 2:28 pm
#228 ufo: LOL…yes…i said when these guys went into the CC that the EOYT was going to be a bridge too far.
Just hope we restore pride over last 3 matches
November 16th, 2009 at 2:28 pm
#236 nama1: #234 Ratel Brussow (MSIUR):
Not that you said the same thing but I reckon the response covers both comments to a certain extent.
Good players do not suddenly become poor or average.
We need to ask why guys now don’t show the intensity they did in the B&I lions matches and for most of the 3N?
Bismarck did not suddenly forgot how to throw into line-outs, nor did Beast suddenly forget how to scrum and Schalk forget how to tackle…
These players have the skills to klap the best in the world, we need to figure out why that drive and lack of execution is missing currently.
November 16th, 2009 at 2:30 pm
#214 Ratel Brussow (MSIUR): Look it did seem on many occassion that the French were way offside at the breakdown but they got away with it – but giving away scrum penalties in front of the poles is not just wrong – it is heartbreaking for any team
November 16th, 2009 at 2:30 pm
#234 Ratel Brussow (MSIUR): no arguments with me about Schalk either….he has been on borrowed time for 2 years.
November 16th, 2009 at 2:30 pm
Saracens side to play against the Boks have been posted on another thread.
Saracens – 15 Michael Horak, 14 Noah Cato, 13 Kameli Ratuvou, 12 Brad Barritt, 11 Michael Tagicakibau, 10 Derick Hougaard, 9 Neil de Kock, 8 Ernst Joubert, 7 Justin Melck, 6 Wikus van Heerden (c), 5 Hugh Vyvyan, 4 Mouritz Botha, 3 Richard Skuse, 2 Ethienne Reynecke, 1 Rhys Gill.
Subs: 16 Schalk Brits, 17 Carlos Nieto, 18 George Kruis, 19 Andy Saull, 20 Kevin Barrett, 21 Alex Goode, 22 Rodd Penney.
As you can see there are 10 SA’s in the side.
November 16th, 2009 at 2:31 pm
I said it before, we have gone into this EOYT with the aim of winning the battles but unfortunately at the price of ultimately losing the war.
November 16th, 2009 at 2:32 pm
Read my posts – don’t read them, if you want a go forward back line momentum, forget FdP and M.Steyn, one track ponies, boot to ball, first option, think about it, think again, maybe run if nothing else on. Slow and second phase thinking, far too flat footed behind the scrum, nothing on, always playing catch up or skop en trek rugby, front foot attack, a none entity in their minds eye.
Get Pienaar up to speed or play Grant or get JLP up to scratch, but M.Steyn is a tee kicking machine, Naas Botha would be very proud. FDP another fly half at scrum half, 2 kicking fly halves behind the scrum then WTF you expect, back line cancer thats about it.
November 16th, 2009 at 2:33 pm
#236 nama1: Ah, good point and my thoughts too. We will see tomorrow night.
The consequences of changing Smit to 3 to get bismaak in has come at a price as there was no “B” plan if it never worked. I thought Smit played well on Friday but why are we the only nation in the world that plays our players out of position????
I know that we won everything with this combination but something is very wrong with the dynamics of the front row.
November 16th, 2009 at 2:34 pm
#236 nama1: Deep in the kak!
November 16th, 2009 at 2:34 pm
#237 Fidget: Yep the Ities can scrum , they have the prop from Leciester so they should know how he plays ….. But if they lose against Italy , this will be a low point of a fantastic season ….. A bridge too far ?
November 16th, 2009 at 2:34 pm
#235 grant10: #237 Fidget: The cancer in world rugby at the moment is the scrum. Nobody knows whats going on. If you watched Wales vs Aus, the Welsh commentators said it (early on), NZ say it, SA say it. By the sounds of things the Irish are also less than happy. The British Lions said it. Its clear there is a problem, but the IRB does squat. The only games there seem to be no problems is when SA plays NZ. Now is this the battle of the 2 softy scrums or as Bissie says is this because they both respect the hit and spend less time cheating?
November 16th, 2009 at 2:35 pm
#237 Fidget: 2 nd team scrum may be bettter than 1 st team scrum?
November 16th, 2009 at 2:36 pm
#241 PissAnt: fatigue and intensity go hand in hand…like salt and pepper
November 16th, 2009 at 2:40 pm
#244 nama1: More Saffis that anything else??
November 16th, 2009 at 2:41 pm
#250 Ratel Brussow (MSIUR): LOL…kiwis biggest bloody chears ever….2 kakkest scrums….thats the truth
Problem is kiwis will have Hayman…Jack…ali williams back…problem solved.
November 16th, 2009 at 2:41 pm
#253 Fidget: SA 2nd team vs sa 3 rd team….will be a tough one …
November 16th, 2009 at 2:43 pm
#241 PissAnt: Bissie and Beast are tired from a physical year. Schalk has hardly played and is not the player he once was, he’s still young, but his body is old. Look at Gerrie Collins. No man is unbreakable.
November 16th, 2009 at 2:44 pm
#234 Ratel Brussow (MSIUR):
He did have a very good game vs the AB’s in the last 3nations match for the Boks.
#241 PissAnt:
Agree on your point regarding good players. Just don’t want to blame it on fatigue either. As you saw last week a guy like FdP played the equivalent of only 23 matches this year. Way inside the recommended 26-28 matches per year.
At the end of the day the answer to your question may just be that the French outsmart, outrun and outplay us. What we need to do now is go back, analyse what went wrong, where it went wrong and why it went wrong. Come up with a plan to ensure that this tour can still be regarded as a success. That mean, we HAVE to win the two remaining tests matches.
November 16th, 2009 at 2:44 pm
#195 grant10:
lol
November 16th, 2009 at 2:48 pm
#257 nama1: True, he had a decent game, but herdly a stand-out. One can only wonder how Vermuelen, Alberts or Deysel would perform if given the chance. Surely better than one good game between what can only be described as nightmares. On S14 form he has been even worse.
November 16th, 2009 at 2:48 pm
#255 grant10:
Good one. Real funny.
November 16th, 2009 at 2:49 pm
#257 nama1:
Unfortunately it is not as simple as putting a blanket number on recommended amount of games for all players.
If we apply the science of player fatigue to players it has to be done properly and also individually for all our top Boks/pro players.
#256 Ratel Brussow (MSIUR):
Players do get broken, this is what the player fatigue issue all boils down to.
What we need to figure out is how far down the line someone like Schalk (and do not forget Juan Smith in all this) is and see if it is still possible to reverse the effects cause by stupid amounts of rugby and physical abuse these players are subjected to.
November 16th, 2009 at 2:50 pm
#250 Ratel Brussow (MSIUR): At the moment you got to say battle of the softies ….. Did you see how well the Aussies scrummed against the Irish ?
Now you wouldnt in your wildest dreams say that the Australian pack is better than South Africa but in reality the Aussies will outscrum most teams at the moment – this therefore comes down to technique ….. The Springbok pack need a massive wake up call , just because you are WC champions dont expect to walk onto the pitch and walk away with a win , every team will want to knock them over – the pressure is on
November 16th, 2009 at 2:53 pm
#261 PissAnt: Well Schalk, is an easy one. Rest him for all Springbok games until his domestic form has improved. Ie. drop him like he’s hot. Juan Smith still has it. We must manage our players properly. Maybe, the CC should be shortened to coincide with the 3N?
November 16th, 2009 at 2:55 pm
Noakes actually sums it up nicely where he says a team that has been successful for some time runs the risk of developing the disease of success.
He puts something I tried to say a couple of weeks ago so much better (winning the battles but losing the wars) where he mentions that a successful team, like the Boks needed to shift their goal from winning, to perfection.
They are not busy trying to perfect the art at the moment, they are all too hell-bent on just winning (at disastrous costs) the small battles and to repeat myself again, lose the war.
Perfecting the art now, in my my, has to include amongst a host of other things developing world class back up’s and depth in association with ensuring our top Boks are always in 100% peak physical and mental condition when taking the field and for that, sacrifices need to be made.
It is a broad topic and one not easily understood or grasped because as fans we are obsessed with winning.
November 16th, 2009 at 2:57 pm
#244 nama1:
that eittienne reyneke is damn good, another great hooker lost, and who, the Lions again.
November 16th, 2009 at 2:58 pm
I suppose we will see tomorrow if the 2nd stringers can scrum, the problem is that Italy scrum will be far, far better that scarecens.
Picture this: They may do well tom night, get picked for Saturday, get hammered on Saturday, SA Lose against Italy.
Then i will just shoot myself in the foorking head.
November 16th, 2009 at 3:00 pm
Question is: How did the All Blacks manage to maintain their intensity for so many years… season in season out… at home and away… game after game…
How come they never suffer from fatigue but our guys do???
November 16th, 2009 at 3:01 pm
#266 Fidget: LOL…ja…that will be a bridge too far for me too….bloody hell…the mighty boks lose to Italy….ooooohhh hell…i am off this sire for a week i tell you….fark me it will be a shitstorm!!
November 16th, 2009 at 3:01 pm
#264 PissAnt: Agree, we should never have sent our tired guys on this tour, but then we also need to choose the best possible back-up team. Something we normally fail at.
November 16th, 2009 at 3:01 pm
#267 ufo: they embrace that squad system a lot more than we do??
November 16th, 2009 at 3:03 pm
#268 Ras_nervous_grant10:
at it again, i see!!
November 16th, 2009 at 3:03 pm
#234 Ratel Brussow (MSIUR): Cool if that is your opinion !!!
I would still have him on my teamsheet !!
November 16th, 2009 at 3:04 pm
Another bok who is all over the bloody place is JPP…He must be wide awake …that Mapoe gonna be blowing down his neck!
November 16th, 2009 at 3:06 pm
#271 ashley:
What you doing here
Has your website died.
November 16th, 2009 at 3:07 pm
#267 ufo: They built a squad of 30 and alternated every-one. Something that also cost them at WC time.
#264 PissAnt: Maybe the answer is to pick mainly on form. To a logical point obviously, keeping the tired stalwarts in the squad, but only start them when they actually deserve their spot. Most of the stalwarts in 2008 were terrible and shouldn’t have been starting. Then we might still have been smashed by everyone, but at least some other players might have been uncovered.
November 16th, 2009 at 3:07 pm
Yes PA this is why I say my team above would have more than likely perhaps won the battle and to cap it off possibly won the war too.
Du Preez
Liebenberg
Nel
Breedt
Bekker
Brussow
Deysel/Potgieter
Vermeulen
Pretorius
Pienaar
Le Grange
De Jongh
Mapoe
Joe Pietersen
Viljoen
Blaauw
Strauss
Buys
Sykes
Alberts
Hougaard
Kirchner
Would have possibly achieved more with this team in the battle and perhaps won the war too down the line
November 16th, 2009 at 3:07 pm
#270 grant10:
don’t think they do… Carter and McCaw play every game they’re allowed to… They never look jaded…
November 16th, 2009 at 3:07 pm
#274 Dawn:
naaah, i missed you
November 16th, 2009 at 3:07 pm
#267 ufo:
Our manne are always tired.
Graham Smith has stomach cramps. Poor baby.
November 16th, 2009 at 3:08 pm
#278 ashley:
Did they insult you in some racist despicable fashion.
November 16th, 2009 at 3:09 pm
#277 ufo:
Our manne are gatvol for all the politics.
First it was Beast, then the incredible Ras!!!!!
November 16th, 2009 at 3:10 pm
#278 ashley:
How you could go blog with that bunch of nwatas is beyond me.
November 16th, 2009 at 3:10 pm
#271 ashley: Hi there my man…ja…wheels coming off a bit now….i see the boys on the other site agree with me about Smit….close to 84% of them agree Smit back to 2!!
Not often those guys and i agree…LOL
November 16th, 2009 at 3:11 pm
#280 Dawn:
never in a lifetime, dawnie
anyway
how’s life treating you?
November 16th, 2009 at 3:11 pm
#264 PissAnt: I see your point here.
Look, We have the rights to an exclusive springbok photo to put on all our products. Its called “The Conquerors” and we are very amped about the forth coming sales. The problem is that if this tour is not successful , they are no longer, “The Conquerors” which will ultamately impacts on our numbers, how we market etc, etc. Losing is bad for business, for everybody. Do you have any idea how much money SARU make out of Brand Royalties, product comm?? I know, and it will knock your socks off.
My partner said something true, every side has its cycle of ups and downs and no side can stay on the top forever. It all comes down to player management at the end of the day to ensure more overall success over a longer period of time. This comes with sacrificing games, rather running the risk of loosing but protecting your best for the WARS and not risking them in the BATTLES.
Nicely said.
November 16th, 2009 at 3:12 pm
#277 ufo: that team vs\italy??
November 16th, 2009 at 3:12 pm
#279 Dawn:
Dawn…
Thought you were ignoring me this morning…
But I’ll take your word for it that our manne are always tired…
November 16th, 2009 at 3:13 pm
#62 Dawn: u gotto listen to what Noakes is saying
regardless of guys now being professionals..because of tiredness and fatigue the players become more prone to make mistakes they wouldnt ordinarily make, and more prone to injuries
u cant outwork or outsmart your body telling you you’re playing too many games in a year
November 16th, 2009 at 3:13 pm
#269 Ratel Brussow (MSIUR):
Rest the buggers during the S14 and CC, never at the expense of a Bok side. The Boks should always field the best.
The realities for this to happen are far to complex to discuss here.
Bok caps should only go to the best of the best.
I don’t care what the NH sides do when they come here.
I hate seeing understrength Bok teams. I have no problem with a squad system as long as those picked are the best in their posistions.
Palying S14 and 3N’s in the same year is ludricous, with all the travelling, and I propose that in a WC year that no S14 or 3N rugby be played.
This will allow injuries to mend, conditioning to take place and fitness levels to be increased.
Then when the WC is played the best players in the best possible physical condition are showcased to the world.
Should that not be the case ?
But money dictates so it will never happen !!
November 16th, 2009 at 3:14 pm
#283 grant10:
difficult one that grant (although i suspect tighthead wont agree with me)
we might be giving up when he’s about to turn the corner for good!!
November 16th, 2009 at 3:15 pm
#286 grant10:
not saying they played well against Italy… they didn’t… but they just didn’t play well… they didn’t look fatigued like our guys did…
November 16th, 2009 at 3:16 pm
#288 Papoose:
Noted.
But I also notice that Noakes re-hashes that story EVERY YEAR this time.
Surely by now, after 6 re-writes, he has come up with a solution.
November 16th, 2009 at 3:17 pm
#287 ufo:
Man, poor ol’ Graham.
He is a true hero.
November 16th, 2009 at 3:18 pm
#268 grant10: I know, imagine how many heads will be called for, gosh, i will stay well away from Rugga sites, my stomache goes into knots just thinking about it.
when i told my wife, she said – lord please dont let this happen, my husband will not speak to the rest of the family for a month!!!
November 16th, 2009 at 3:20 pm
#294 Fidget:
They won’t lose to Italy, but they will lose to Ireland.
Mark me.
November 16th, 2009 at 3:23 pm
#157 Oubaas2009: in a side which includes senior boks u want to give the captaincy to pottie???
nuff said
transformation window dressing and nepotism is rife in our rugby
November 16th, 2009 at 3:23 pm
#295 Dawn:
Mark me, you mean trust me? Or do you have access to our personal info? That was just a little wierd.
November 16th, 2009 at 3:25 pm
#292 Dawn: less i’m mistaken he said the core players shouldn’t have gone on this tour or at least they shouldn’t be part of the currie cup and should be managed better during the Super 14
look how crap Smit and Matfield were last year after continuing they’re careers in France
too many games
u nt sharp and it leads to injuries
November 16th, 2009 at 3:26 pm
#283 grant10: Hi there Grant! Nice to see you are still blogging away. When you say “guys from the other site” are you refering to whom I think you are?
November 16th, 2009 at 3:28 pm
#296 Papoose:
JS got the captaincy ahead of a few seniors as well !
The best man for the job irrespective of age , true leaders overcome these things, potgieter appears to be one of those individuals !!
November 16th, 2009 at 3:28 pm
#299 rossoneri: Yeah, what other site is this?
November 16th, 2009 at 3:29 pm
#299 rossoneri: Ja…those RT okes….some knowledgeable fellows there…
But regretfully they left here…
Its great to have Ashley blogging here again….a good man.
November 16th, 2009 at 3:31 pm
#285 Fidget:
I think that is where perfecting the art of success or playing rugby consistently well comes in.
We play the game to win, and winning should never be sacrificed but I think this is where most people lose the plot with boxing clever and rather winning the wars than the odd battle.
Perfecting what you have created is exactly that – taking what you have and making it better, eliminating common risks and closing down on the margin’s of errors we find in the game of rugby.
This most importantly means we never take the field with half-baked, tired players – that is not perfecting your game but rather panicking and falling back on what worked before and hoping somehow you will get the same result.
Point is you are not progressing.
For me part of perfecting the art for the Boks is to ensure our boys are 100% conditioned when taking the field. No excuses of fatigue or long seasons or too many games.
That of course means sufficient rest for players, as well as ensuring test quality back up in this wings on which we fail on both counts currently.
November 16th, 2009 at 3:34 pm
#301 Fidget: Long story.
#302 grant10: You are too nice. I wouldn’t go that far. Too many battles.
Truth is. I am enjoying blogging without blades and ammo, waiting to reload every 5 seconds. It’s nice to see good banter.
November 16th, 2009 at 3:36 pm
#289 justrugby: Post of the decade!!
Right up there with ‘when is just being a saffa ever going to be enough!’…
November 16th, 2009 at 3:38 pm
#290 ashley: He cant make it at 3 Ashley….and if he can…only for 40 minutes
November 16th, 2009 at 3:41 pm
#291 ufo: no…my point was its the kiwis 2 nd team….we dont seem to want to risk our 2 nd team in tests
November 16th, 2009 at 3:44 pm
#307 grant10:
to risk our second team… we’ve got to pick our second team!!
November 16th, 2009 at 3:48 pm
#304 rossoneri: LOL…regretfully the ‘wars’tended to detracr from the rugby debate and banter….but i got my share of blood on my hands too…LOL
November 16th, 2009 at 3:52 pm
#309 grant10:
sheesh grant… you have been at it the last few weeks…
sometimes I’m scared to chat to you…!!
November 16th, 2009 at 3:53 pm
#308 ufo: true boet…very true!
November 16th, 2009 at 3:53 pm
#264 PissAnt:
Sounds like something G. Henry was trying to do until he flopped at the WC.
I wonder what happened to old Keo today? Nothing from him yet.
November 16th, 2009 at 3:54 pm
#309 grant10: You were fiercely provocked as I recall and if you had blood. I was swimming in bodies.
Anyway. In the past.
I honestly never thought I’d see the day that this year 2009! The Boks iconic year, that people would be nervous about Italy?
November 16th, 2009 at 3:55 pm
#310 ufo:
meant with lots of love and respect…
of course…!!
November 16th, 2009 at 3:57 pm
#310 ufo: No….i think you got a cool rugby brain and knowledge…..i feel strongly about very few things…they include
Players out of position…makes me nervous.
Racism
and making idols out of human beings…..
But i welcome a good debate…damn i even agree with Ratel Brussow at times …and hell we been at it for a while now….
No…i promise you i am as meek a person as you will find….but after watching amnd loving this game since 1976 it is true i have strong opinions…and not scared to voice them. I get it wrong too…i honestly believed F Steyn would be a magic flyhalf!!
November 16th, 2009 at 4:00 pm
#313 rossoneri: Yes….great year…maybe thats the problem…..intense battles sure to take there toll….and sometimes all the wins breeds complacency….Those Italians will come out snorting….Mallet knows how to get the best out of teams….the warning lights are flashing brightly!
November 16th, 2009 at 4:02 pm
#315 grant10:
just teasing grant… got no problem with your views or how you express them…
most of the time well reasoned and communicated…
I share a helluva lot of them…
some I don’t but that’s what makes life interesting hey…?
Only 1976…? You’re a spring chicken bud!!
November 16th, 2009 at 4:02 pm
#313 rossoneri: Well i should learn to walk away….and stick to the rugby….
Easier said than done at times….
Regret a lot of what was said and done.
November 16th, 2009 at 4:02 pm
#317 ufo:
1976???
I was only born then…
November 16th, 2009 at 4:02 pm
Why is everyone being nice here.
November 16th, 2009 at 4:03 pm
#315 grant10:
one more thing…
I STILL believe Frans will make a magic flyhalf… his time is still coming…
this is one of our “interesting” points…
November 16th, 2009 at 4:03 pm
#317 ufo: 46 years old now….but feel 16 so thats cool….
Work to do…cheers all…till later
Outta here
November 16th, 2009 at 4:04 pm
#320 Dawn:
maybe because i’m back?
November 16th, 2009 at 4:04 pm
#319 PissAnt:
November 16th, 2009 at 4:05 pm
#322 grant10:
i feel the same after a few beers!!
November 16th, 2009 at 4:05 pm
#321 ufo: better 12….and a great 15….great kid that F Steyn…what a player!Discuss next time…
Cheers
November 16th, 2009 at 4:06 pm
#319 PissAnt:
what can I say mate… another springchicken…!!
first Province rugby match I watched was in the Summer of Love!!
November 16th, 2009 at 4:09 pm
#313 rossoneri:
Ironic, isn’t it?
SA went over to NZ and Aus and played a wonderful test match first up against the Aus. Lost the second one playing woefully. As I recall, apart from Ras Dumisani staffing up the anthem, the excuses for that lost was about the same. The Boks then bounced back with a convincing display against the AB’s to win them for the third time in a row.
Now we are nervous about Italy.(no disrespect intended)
The mind boggles.
November 16th, 2009 at 4:10 pm
Lemme go get some flowers and pixie dust to fling around the place.
November 16th, 2009 at 4:11 pm
#319 PissAnt:
Another chicken then, spring that is.
November 16th, 2009 at 4:12 pm
#326 grant10:
cool Grant
cheers
November 16th, 2009 at 4:12 pm
#330 nama1:
Seems I am surrounded by toppies!
November 16th, 2009 at 4:14 pm
But I am out for now too.
Cheers.
November 16th, 2009 at 4:15 pm
#332 PissAnt:
you know what they say about youth hey…?
wasted on the young!!
November 16th, 2009 at 4:17 pm
#334 ufo:
now
with that
i can agree!!
November 16th, 2009 at 4:17 pm
#328 nama1:
Ras rocks!
November 16th, 2009 at 4:21 pm
#335 ashley:
and we all do it…!!
November 16th, 2009 at 4:22 pm
#336 Dawn:
Dawnie… Your fav reggae song?
November 16th, 2009 at 4:23 pm
#338 ufo:
Three Little Birds.
November 16th, 2009 at 4:24 pm
#336 Dawn:
you cant be serious!!
November 16th, 2009 at 4:26 pm
#336 Dawn:
Is that Rastafari language for, “Ras rook?”
November 16th, 2009 at 4:27 pm
#328 nama1: I just never saw it comming. Not this year.
#320 Dawn: It’s freaking me out too. But in a good way.
#318 grant10: I don’t. But I have a naturally vengeful spirit so don’t pay attention.
#336 Dawn: He should sing someone elses anthem next? Which country do you recon. England?
November 16th, 2009 at 4:28 pm
I gotta run. Have a good afternoon everyone.
November 16th, 2009 at 4:28 pm
agree Ras rocks is it his fault that rugby players and supporters can’t appreciate some heart n soul reggae bunch of soul less teeny bopper’s
November 16th, 2009 at 4:31 pm
#344 skopskiet:
Ras has volunteered to sing the Irish national anthem when we play them.
November 16th, 2009 at 4:33 pm
#339 Dawn:
very cool song…
mine
Look at the Mountains… Best feel good song ever…
always imagine a full Newlands singing…
“I’m going up there…! I’m going up there….!! Who’s coming with me??”
Would be the best stadium song ever…!
November 16th, 2009 at 4:33 pm
#343 rossoneri: Jah save da queen.
November 16th, 2009 at 4:33 pm
#341 nama1:
November 16th, 2009 at 4:36 pm
#347 katman:
and if he forget his words like in the last part of “nkosi sikelel”?
November 16th, 2009 at 4:37 pm
#347 katman:
November 16th, 2009 at 4:39 pm
ok, guys
i’m out of here
see ya tomorrow
November 16th, 2009 at 4:39 pm
#346 ufo:
My dream is to be in charge of stadium music.
I truly madly deeply hate that Newlands stadium announcer with his funereal drone.
November 16th, 2009 at 4:45 pm
#351 ashley:
why don’t you pull some of your strings and set it up…
me too… sounds like a fast-food announcer for the retirement home…
November 16th, 2009 at 4:45 pm
#350 ashley: No, he won’t forget. The lyrics are really simple:
Jah save our irie queen
One love, da reggae queen
Jah save da queen
Give her da irie bong
Make sure she hit it long
Then pass it on to I and I
Jah save da queen
November 16th, 2009 at 4:47 pm
#353 ufo:
huh?
#354 katman:
lmao!!
November 16th, 2009 at 4:47 pm
ufo out…!!
November 16th, 2009 at 4:48 pm
#354 katman:
But …… will it be in tune?
November 16th, 2009 at 4:49 pm
#355 ashley:
#%^&(#%$&(#
Sorry Ashley…
that was meant for Dawn #352…
November 16th, 2009 at 4:49 pm
now have to go…