‘We’re creating memories’
18 Nov 2009
You can take away a trophy but you can never take away the memory of scalping the Springboks, says Brendan Venter.
The Saracens director of rugby watched on as Derick Hougaard hit a 75th minute drop goal. It was the telling blow as the Watford club went on to win the exhibition fixture 24-23.
Hougaard had blown hot and cold with the boot, missing four drop attempts in the build up to the decisive kick. In the aftermath, Venter said he never doubted the former Bulls match-winner.
‘Those were my orders. I told him to go for the drop goal,’ Venter told keo.co.za. ‘The big problem in the first half is that we didn’t have enough field position. So when we received that in the second half I told Derick to go for it.
‘When Mark [McCall, Saracens coach] asked me why Derick ws going for a fourth drop goal in any case, I told him to settle down. “Just watch”, I said, “he’ll get the next one.
‘When Derick got the next one, I said to Mark, “That is why he is going for it”. Derick’s had a hamstring injury recently, but he was absolutely brilliant in the second half.’
Venter made a statement on Monday that confirmed the match was not as important as the Premiership fixture against Wasps this Sunday. He stood by that statement, but said Saracens would never forget the day they beat South Africa.
‘We’re making memories. When they give you the cup for winning a competition, they can always take that away the following year. They can never take this away from us. We’ll remember this night for a long time.
‘It was a great thing for the club to win and get 46 000 people to Wembley, but it means nothing if we can’t beat Wasps this weekend. For me, it was great to see the guys come back form 18-6 down, and the fact that South Africa didn’t play badly is a big compliment for us.’
Venter offered an opinion on the midweek concept and also believes the Boks have sufficient depth.
‘Wynand Olivier, Juan de Jongh, Jongi Nokwe – these are all fantastic individual players. The problem is they didn’t really receive an opportunity to train much together, they were effectively a Barbarian side.
‘But I don’t think the experiment has failed. They will be better for this experience.
‘I also don’t think the Boks are in trouble when it comes to scrumming. On this occasion, they had a loosehead forced to play tighthead [Heinke van der Merwe switched sides when CJ van der Linde went off with an injury]. There are also a lot of tightheads out there with BJ Botha and Brian Mujati playing over here. So I don’t think it will be a problem in future.’
By Jon Cardinelli, in London
48 Comments
18 Nov 2009, 01:55 am
Looks good on his CV, for sure.
18 Nov 2009, 02:11 am
Brendons last paragraph is where I disagree. Doesn’t matter who we have. Why are we shunting them around ? Seems we get drukked by all North hemi teams in this dept.
I think we have a mental problem and esp with the coaching and decision makers.
18 Nov 2009, 02:14 am
Brendon, you should teach the announcer to say “HOUGAARD” and not “HOO-HAA”
18 Nov 2009, 02:38 am
Announcer was so excited he was hoo haa-ing all the way !
Brendon learned all he needed from that first 20 minutes.
Ras Dumisane is a genius. He is a household name. Had he sung well it would have been forgotten about already !
He read the book and took the course about negative publicity never being bad publicity.
18 Nov 2009, 03:43 am
Hoo-haa (is this the correct pronunciation?) has been very injury-prone up north. This always surprised me as he doesn’t seem the most physical of players.
18 Nov 2009, 05:34 am
#5 Big Hit: He has always been very careful to protect his slender frame, hence, he is always in the pocket.
18 Nov 2009, 05:38 am
SA scalped SA. The winner: SA.
18 Nov 2009, 05:40 am
This was a practice game, to give other players experience on a bigger stage and meld combinations. If it is continued, I think it would be positive for SA rugby.
18 Nov 2009, 07:49 am
To be fair, any of the top 5 provincial teams would of smashed that Saracens team. They were not that great. Does not say much for the boks team though. The selectors need to look at selecting in combinations next time. This team is a real mix and match team. No combinations! You cant throw a bunch of players together and expect them to gel in two weeks.
18 Nov 2009, 08:15 am
@ Sonito – Selecting combinations might suggest that we are playing for the win rather than the experiment…
18 Nov 2009, 08:34 am
Nokwe keeps scoring. It makes me wonder what the primary function of a winger is when so many saffas slate him for his defensive frailties.
Boland, Free State, Bok A Team and now with the Dirt trackers; Nokwe keeps scoring.
I choose to look on the bright side concerning Nokwe.
Come 2011 he’ll be our strike finisher behind Bryan.
18 Nov 2009, 08:41 am
It was still a joke of a side. Jongi Nokwe , Earl Rose , Heini Adams and then Davon Raubenheimer on the bench. Nevermind the transformation sh*t-> what was Heinke and Hargreaves doing there ???
No combinations , and then Pieter De Villiers plays a guy like Hargreaves young and no grunt ,and Heinke Van Der Merwe-out of position.
The entire Cheetah front row of Wp Nel , Strauss & Du Preez should have been starting. Province or Sharks pair of Locks-Van Zyl , Sykes, Bekker, Muller. Loose forwads were okay. Would have started Peter Grant at inside center and keep Wynand for the test side.
Aplon , Joe Pietersen , Stefan Terblanche , Mapoe etc… much better options for the back 3.
Geeze they could even have had Frans Steyn as fullback last night , but no we persist with the modern gaffie, i crack under pressure, cant kick,– Pienaar. The guy is not a goalkicker for f*cks sake, we would have won last night had we had a half decent kicker
Rory Kockott would have suited or game so much better than Adams and we would have had a settled half back combination.
Pieter De Villiers is ruining the best rugby year ever by thinking he can simply include second stringers such as Raubenheimer, Adams , Rose , Nokwe , Ndungane , Hargreaves. Our aim has gone from winning games to fielding enough players of colour.
What a sh*t way of ending an awesome season. Im just making this 1 comment so please dont reply to tell me our coach is not so bad. Ok. Frans Ludeke and the Bulls this year is a prime example of a coach being at the right place at the right time. But we all know its the players who made it happen,not the coach…
Pieter De Villiers is the weakest link in the Bok set up and i sure don’t hope for it , but I think we are in for a “2006″ year , next year.
18 Nov 2009, 08:58 am
For me, PDV is more suited to be Bok Manager than Head Coach.
18 Nov 2009, 09:33 am
It was like South Africa beating South Africa
Venter should know better too. A Dirt Tracker team is not the Test side.
Far too many changes so quick again last night cost us.
Only sub players if they are injured or dead on their feet.
Never play players out of position either.
Also SELECTION must be of a priority when selecting players to tour. Select the best 2nd side and Test side always.
Rose has surprised me and played really well now for a 2nd week. Well done to him.
18 Nov 2009, 09:35 am
#12 wp_boytjie: I disagree on some of your selection advise and agree with some. It was said before the tour that the dirt trackers were meant to be a look at post 2011 RWC. This is building for the future so it’s promising young players who have done well for their unions this past season and not for old timers like Muller etc. Your argument is flawed with regard to transformation because Adams played alright and at least looked lively but Hougard was rubbish and changed the game, not everything in life is a conspiracy bud, we played fantastic rugby in the first half but somehow lost the plot in the second half. If you read comments from the players in the Main bok side after the French game, they said that they (the players) hadn’t stuck to the game plan – this says to me that Snor had a plan just no one followed it, how can you then blame the coach. The ref was hopeless in the last ten minutes last night but in the same respect we should have been 36-6 up by that time anyways and not under the cosh! The players also need to be held accountable sometimes too you know. I do agree though that Peinaar is not a no 10 and should now be confined to no 9, finished and klaar.
18 Nov 2009, 10:05 am
#8 sglazer:
There is no positive from losing twice to club sides two weeks in a row, its a disaster and if any other top team had done it there would be hundreds on here saying so, don’t kid yourself.
18 Nov 2009, 10:10 am
Bottom Line is that it was terribly bad selected squad and hopefully the only positive to come out is that we have learned our leasson.
18 Nov 2009, 10:15 am
#12 wp_boytjie: Should always select the best and on merit. Colour should never come into it ever. This is South Africa and it always will.
Never play players out of position always going to come short doing that. Adams was playing okay, then Hougaard comes on and gets a kick charged down that lead to a try. That is where it all started going downhill. That is probably what lost us the game. Rose should have taken the kicks, Pienaar just has not got the nerves to do it. Still played well but not the kicking at posts.
Players hearts are not in this eoyt at all. They are all tired and just want to be home resting. Far, far too long this season with a Lions tour this year.
18 Nov 2009, 10:19 am
#16 NZINCHINA: Mate there is also no positive by not selecting the best players to tour. We have learned nothing by playing some of these players that should never ever have got selected. Far too many were left at home that should have been on this tour. Shame on the selectors. My feeling though is the coach is under huge pressure to select certain players.
18 Nov 2009, 10:30 am
#19 Puma:
Fair enough,but you should have put those two clubs sides away though.
18 Nov 2009, 10:43 am
#20 NZINCHINA: We should have with the players sitting at home. Some really daft selections for the Dirt Trackers.
Also cant understand the subs so quick? So stupid. Only sub if the player is injured or dead on his feet. Just messes the play up. Players were playing well together then all of a sudden there is another player there. Daft.
Tell you what we are missing JdV, Fransie, Spies and Juan in the Test squad too. Burger just not the same player he used to be either. Might be injured for this week then I would play Deysel at 7 or Potties. Also would still have selected JdV and Fransie for this tour.
We have learned nothing with our Dirt Trackers as most of them are not our 2nd best maybe our 4th best.
Only in South Africa that will happen. Other countries will always select their very best on merit. Not here.
18 Nov 2009, 10:52 am
This performance along with the Leicester fiasco is an embarrassment to the Springbok emblem/tradition. We should be hammering sides like these. Lack of decent preparation, not picking combinations in key positions and suspect selections have led to this situation. To avoid this embarrasment in he future, the midweek team should be called the emerging Boks and should contain no players with test caps.
Combinations are key: how many times have the following combinations played together? Adams/Pienaar, Adams/Johnson, Pienaar/Olivier/De Jonge, Ndungane/Rose/Nokwe, Johnson/Potgieter/Deysel, Strauss/Bekker/Rossouw(lineouts).
18 Nov 2009, 10:56 am
#16 NZINCHINA: Mate, the All Blacks has a very poor record against the provincial teams when on tour in SA. Heck, I’m almost certain the All Black has never beaten the Free State.
Ah. How I miss the tours.
18 Nov 2009, 11:09 am
I think it was doc Craven that said, when someone picks a team filled with all the best players, he will pick a team to beat that team.
18 Nov 2009, 11:11 am
#23 Bouts:
Crikey thats a good one, the Bokke lose two in a row to club sides and you talk about our record against Free state 40 years ago, are you a politician?
18 Nov 2009, 11:21 am
#23 Bouts:
1928…NZ 20, OFS 0.
1949.. NZ 9, OFS 9.
1960 ..NZ 8, OFS 9.
1970…NZ 30, OFS 12.
1976…NZ 31, OFS 12.
Your memory is somewhat clouded. The SA Province with the Best record is WP.
18 Nov 2009, 11:23 am
#26 cane:
Perfect – thank you sir.
18 Nov 2009, 11:26 am
This Team bore the name…South Africa. FULL STOP.
Forget the Dirt Trackers label and JC’s “Exhibition Match” quip.
Credit where it is due. A great achievement by Saracens.
18 Nov 2009, 11:30 am
#27 NZINCHINA:
No worries my old China.
I knew my “Man in Black” would come in handy one day.
Bouts is right about the Old Tours just the same. I miss them too.
18 Nov 2009, 11:59 am
I agree with NZINCHINA, this IS a disaster.
The rest of the world see’s this as the World Champions losing two weeks in a row to club sides. I’ve even seen headlines on CNN.
I cant believe I wasted valuable sleeping time 2 weeks in a row on this rubbish!
The rest of the world dont know or care that these players are not our first team.
This is a disgrace and this is exactly why we need to pick a competitive team for every single outing.
Nokwe to me needs to play in the test side instead of Pietersen.
Dewald Potgieter tried his guts out too.
18 Nov 2009, 12:01 pm
And Brad Barritt with that Village people moustache…what a douchebag.
18 Nov 2009, 12:29 pm
The sprinbok managment team have brought the wrong depth team to blood. They have it horribly wrong.
18 Nov 2009, 12:38 pm
We got beat by Ospreys who some of those players then are now representing wales.
Who the hell are the Tigers C side and Saracens B. All in the space of 3 weeks.
As I say, its a long time in rugby.
18 Nov 2009, 12:40 pm
#23 Bouts:
Remember it was touring in RSA and RSA refs.
18 Nov 2009, 13:26 pm
Well if nothing else, I reckon Sarries little marketing stunt to showcase themselves to the SA community in London had backfired. After last night I dont think many Saffas will support Sarries (I certainly wont).
The divide in the crowd was noticeable as all the Saffas were there for the Boks and the English guys all supported Sarries.
18 Nov 2009, 14:24 pm
Well it was hard to watch the second half. I feel the dirt trackers played quite well. But very few of the comments here are dealing with the referee.
HE WAS %#$$#$#$#$#$ HORRIBLE.
Granted he missed the knock on that gave SA the try at end of the first half.
However it looked like he changed his mind in the second half and made MAKE UP CALLS to get Saracans evened up? Does anyone agree?
DOES THE EDITOR HAVE the PENALTY and FREE KICK COUNT by HALF?
I recall these BLATANT GAFFS 2nd half:
1) Scrum we pushed early and free kick to Saracans. Next Scrum Saracans puch early, free kick to Saracans???
Saracans were POPPING OUR FRONT ROW, they were scrumming UP. THIS IS NOT ALLOWED LAST TIME I CHECKED? Paddy O Brian, the DOOS will not have anything to say.
2) Scew throws in ALL of them from Scalk Brits. I mean all.
3) Feeding under hookers feet, and early shoves by Saracans.
4) Entering the side, holding on and over the top, not blow ONCE in the second half against Saracans. When we did the same it was countless penalties. Potgieter example when Hougard got third pentalty was shameless and blatant.
5) Offsides call at the end of the second half, 75 minute, was BAD call.
6) Knock on by Saracans, when trying to save a kick into touch was given as a scrum direct into touch? I thought you had to CATCH it not KNOCK it ON?
7) Several tackles in the AIR, by chasing Saracans, not called ONCE.
I am surprised no one is more outraged?
Not that one should blame the ref. But hey, as Naas Botha said after the game, he “BLEW US OFF THE PARK” in the second half. It is not possible to get the ball, or any momentum when EVERY call is against you.
Am I right to be outraged? I do not mind losing, but hate being cheated by incompetance, or worse by BIAS.
That being said, I still think dirt trackers played well. Great performances by Bekker, Rose, Potgieter, Nokwe, etc.
18 Nov 2009, 14:26 pm
#36 uncleben: Correct, and Owen also blamed the defeat on the ref…looking forward to Boots ‘n All tomorrow night
18 Nov 2009, 14:28 pm
And one follow up point/ question:
End of the GAME.
Hourgard Liefling, kicked the ball into touch. The clock on the TV clearly showed at LEAST 5 seconds to play. Probably 10.
How can the ref blow the game when clearly the siren is not sounded?
He should have played ONE MORE LINEOUT?
Right???
Not that it would have changed the game, but I am exploring a case for BIAS by the referee.
UncleBen.
18 Nov 2009, 15:39 pm
I’m not so sure of that. Usually that is the rule with scrums, but line-outs are usually only ‘forced’ when the line has already formed.
Considering the performance of the second half, the boks are better of not having that lineout. Result could have been worse.
18 Nov 2009, 16:33 pm
#36. uncleben: I agree! I have never seen a worse referee performence. Ever!
The guy was totally out of his depth.
18 Nov 2009, 17:10 pm
While you’re all crying into your beer, here’s something else for you to consider:
That was NOT Sarries’ first team. Dr.Death has never picked that team before, and he’ll never pick it again. He’s never picked so many Saffas and ex-Saffas before, and he never will again. It was a team selected for commercial reasons, for sentimental reasons, and with one eye on the big Premiership derby against Wasps at the weekend (where Sarries’ strongest team will appear, and will look nothing like the team that played last night).
And in all your whining about the ref, you are missing the most glaring point: one of your tries came from a green knock-on (hilarious how he needed treatment to his fingertips afterwards), and another came from a blatant forward pass.
18 Nov 2009, 17:17 pm
#31. nicksteroonie:
From the website of the Rugby Players’ Association:
“Movember, the month formerly know as November, is into it’s second half, and the race is on amongst rugby’s Mo Bros to raise the most money for Movember’s charity, The Prostate Cancer Charity (TPCC), and the RPA Benevolent Fund, the Players’ Charity. This month, over 200 Mo Bros from the Premiership, Championship and beyond have been growing and grooming their mo’s (Aussie slang for moustache) to raise as much money as possible in the name of Movember, TPCC and the RPA Benevolent Fund.”
Yep, what a douchebag that Brad Barritt is, raising money for charity and all that.
18 Nov 2009, 17:18 pm
BAZZER
Read my post, JERK/ DOOS.
He was bad throughout, and missed that knock on.
He blew one eyed in the second half, maybe because he felt he missed that call. THis is my theory.
Or else he is JUST ****.
But I cannot see Saracans, B, C or D side, who cares, played SO MUCH better in the second half. Only thing that changed, was the way the whistle was blown and when it was blown, in the second half vs. the first half.
Boks are missing several players too who cares. The midweek games I have enjoyed and hope they continue. 47 thousand turned up to watch Saracans D team, wow, not sure their A team would get such a turnout at Wembly, you total smalll minded twit.
This is probably TOO much for you to handle, so go back to your rock pile.
18 Nov 2009, 17:54 pm
#43 uncleben:
You are one seriously bitter and unpleasant person. Why do you feel the need to be so offensive? What did Bazzer say to deserve to be called a doos or twit?
He was simply speaking the truth. 8 of sarries normal first team started today, with another 4 coming off the bench, so it was largely the first team, especially in the second half (i could post stats on appearances this season and sarrise idael first team but from the intellect shown in your posts i am not sure you will be able to take it). The fact that so many south africans started shows that sarries were more interested in playing their south africans (as they will be more motivated) and that the commercial aspect was also important. Of course, sarries wanted to win, but that was not the only thing on their minds when selecting the team (after all, they have a huge local derby vs wasps in a few days), if not sarries would have started all 13 first teamers who were available.
I am rewatching the match now, and the throws into the scrum were no worse than the springboks, and the lineout was not that bad. There were one or two that were bad, but most were fine. I agree that there were some dodgy decisions in the last ten minutes, but it hardly cost SA the match considering their dodgy two tries. I simply didnt see these tackles in the air that you are talking about. There are a couple of close calls, but none were in the air. Also, there is no full time hooter at wembley, neither is there a countdown clock that worked so he relied on his own watch like the old days. I think ten seconds off over 40 minutes is pretty good.
I agree that the ref didnt have a great game, messing up the two SA tries and making some dodgy calls for sarries from the Barritt on the ground incident onwards. Have you ever stopped and thought that maybe nobody has joined in your outrage because you are wrong (or maybe they dont want to complain because of the two SA tries which werent tries)? Yes, he made a few bad calls, but it is not as bad as you made out. Armchairs refs like you are a joke, and cannot accept they are wrong. Your posts reek of arrogance and self-righteousness, and your offensive name calling to someone stating his opinion is disgusting.
I now await your response, which i am sure will be full of profanities and more whinging and making comments without backing them up. But it doesnt matter, because to you this name calling will make you feel like the bigger man and you will feel like you won the argument.
P.S. from you calling Brendan Venter Dr.Death, i would guess you are a sinners (northampton saints) fan!
18 Nov 2009, 18:16 pm
Sorry, the p.s. at the end was aimed at Bazzer, not Uncleben. I couldnt care in the slightest who uncleben supports
19 Nov 2009, 02:13 am
#8 sglazer:
On a bigger Stage??
Playing a club side is a bigger stage now.
A bigger stage is playing against an International team,now thats a step up. The players that the Boks fielded that day was problably all from super 14 rugby.To be honest that is even a bigger stage.
19 Nov 2009, 11:13 am
Hi SLAI
No you missing the point.
I asked a question, does anyone think the ref was biased or bad. I said he missed the BOKS knock on, I know he was bad both ways, but I think he missed a host of calls in the second half all ONE way. This is my QUESTION and cited examples.
Bazzar was the one implying I am a twit, but stating Saracans were not playing their first team. This is irrelavant. Not the point. Who cares. Boks are not playing their first team either, so WHAT?
He also implied this game was meaningless for Saracans, again he is the one who is arrogant. So he is inflaming us by questioning my right to ask a question? Putting me in my little place? Just like you giving me a lecture?
I love the midweek games on this tour, and have no issue if the boks loose or win as long as they play well, and the ref is FAIR. SARACANS played GREAT, 1st or 5th team. Was a great spectacle, 47 j fans agree, but the ref SUCKED.
You admit yourself several calls not that bad. Sorry, not good enough a feed into a scrum or lineout cannot be not that bad, it has to be STRAIGHT.
I will watch my gurus Naas, Own and Darren on Boots and All tonight and will prefer to take their opinion, than yours (and your armchair comments are more of a joke again thanks for the insults which you seem to ignore).
If you don’t like a little passion, or controversy, then rather not reply.
Cheers.
19 Nov 2009, 18:30 pm
You took ‘not that bad’ out of context. I clearl said some were dodgy but most were straight. I did not mean that they were all ‘not that bad’. I used the term to collectively describe them.
That is the problem with your gurus, you listen to them without ever questioning them. Theyare so one-eyed it is disgusting. ‘the ref cost us the game’, they say, criticising every call against SA. No mention of the two dodgy springboks then.
Second half, all one way. What about the Nokwe forward pass try? I mean, that really benefited sarries, didnt it. I agree that the ref missed a few calls, especially a few penalties after the Barritt incident, but it definately wasnt one way.
You asked a question, and nobody seemed willing to back you up. You know why? because most fans know that there are more important things to do than blame the ref, and the fact that he gave you two tries that werent tries doesnt give them a leg to stand on.
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