Smit set for No 2 jersey?
22 Nov 2009
Peter de Villiers has hinted John Smit could return to hooker against Ireland next Saturday.
The Springbok captain has made the move to tighthead with mixed results, but in the last quarter of their win against Italy, Smit packed down in his favoured hooker position. With a specialist tighthead and the other positions in the front-row filled by players playing in their preferred positions, it was no surprise that the South African scrum looked at its strongest this year.
It would be the logical decision to start Smit at No 2 with Bismarck du Plessis returning from injury off the bench, and the Bok coach suggested this could be the case.
‘Maybe next week I’ll use John [Smit] and Bismarck [du Plessis] as hookers against Ireland,’ said De Villiers.
‘It’s a nice problem to have, knowing that we can change things around,’ he said in reference to their front-row options now that Botha and fellow overseas tighthead CJ van der Linde are in the squad. ‘I will have to make some important decisions in this regard.’
De Villiers also admitted he was worried about the Bok scrum in the build-up to the Italy Test, and he conceded they looked strongest in the final 20 minutes.
‘I was a bit afraid coming into this game that psychologically [last week's scrummaging problems] would give more to the players than anything else. I know the ability of our scrums, I know that our players are world class, I know they can stand up for themselves under all circumstances and I think the last 20 minutes instilled that kind of confidence that we tried to bring to them in practice.’
The Boks reverted to a physical pack in the closing stages that has the ability to dominate Ireland at Croke Park next week. The Irish struggled against Australia at scrum-time last week, and if the Boks select their best unit, they could use it to disrupt the hosts’ dangerous backline and loose forwards.
‘Our boys regrouped pretty well and again we fell back on that experience of battling behind the things that worked for us,’ said Smit. ‘We stuck to a lot of those things that worked for us today and it ended up becoming a good result.’
In other team news, worryingly Fourie du Preez is reportedly in danger of missing the final tour match with a hand injury. News will be released at Monday’s press conference, but if he is injured, out of form Ruan Pienaar or Francois Hougaard could start at scrumhalf.
215 Comments
22 Nov 2009, 16:51 pm
Do we really have to give him a jersey?
22 Nov 2009, 16:57 pm
always just a matter of time.
22 Nov 2009, 16:58 pm
#2 grant10: what’s always just a matter of time?
22 Nov 2009, 16:58 pm
Ruan at 9 please if FDP out…..Croke Park…we will need experience.
22 Nov 2009, 16:59 pm
#3 SpringbokSarah: Smit back to 2…
22 Nov 2009, 16:59 pm
beach time….cheers
22 Nov 2009, 17:03 pm
Doesn’t Bismarck have a higher work rate in the loose though?
22 Nov 2009, 17:07 pm
#7 Partizan: Smit to start at 2….Bissy on for last 30….if Smit is needed for entire duration for captaincy, then Smit to 1 for last 30 minutes….
Far easier than 3….
wave calling
22 Nov 2009, 17:26 pm
My bench would be CJ…BISSY AND WIAAN DU PREEZ
22 Nov 2009, 17:36 pm
oh dear, now we will have quota hougaard playing against ireland, i forsee k@k…
22 Nov 2009, 17:49 pm
With Bismarck not there and with all the other front row injuries it makes sense to move Smit back to hooker for this last game of the season.
Next year is a different question however.
Smit’s move was to make space for Bismarck.
Bismarck has now had a full season for the Boks and for the Sharks. Maybe it’s time that he and Smit compete for the no.2 jersey again.
22 Nov 2009, 18:25 pm
What worries me is that it has again taken something like this to prove to the coach what a lot of us have been saying for a very long time. Your scrum strength is determined by your tighthead and John Smit is not an international tighthead. Can Div really now still claim to have enough technical knowledge to coach a national side?
22 Nov 2009, 18:47 pm
‘It’s a nice problem to have, knowing that we can change things around,’ he said
Its not so nice if you create many of the ‘problems’ yourself!!
22 Nov 2009, 18:50 pm
The Smit to tighthead move was stillborn….a train accident waiting to happen
Almost as bad as moving Gerrie Sonnekus to 8 th man vs B Lions in 1974.
Personally i pray PDV got the nuts to admit it and shelve it for all time….
The sight of the retreating Bok scrum will haunt me for years!
22 Nov 2009, 18:50 pm
sorry…gerrie to scrumhalf!
22 Nov 2009, 19:02 pm
ah yes, let the games begin, the wee maestro is hatching a plan…
22 Nov 2009, 19:04 pm
#14 grant10:
crickey you;ve obviously never been to twickenham from the years 2000-2005 – i’ll show you bok packs that were frognmarched back into the carpark and then we can share our nightmares.
22 Nov 2009, 19:05 pm
#12 kwas: Your arrogance is breathtaking. Who are you and what is your experience in international rugby? Managers make judgement calls all the time having assessed the risks and trade-offs involved in a decision using the best information available to them at the time. In moving Smit permanently to TH, Peter de Villiers made a judgement call the full details of which you have not been privy to. If coaches were not prepared to experiment and take risks the game would remain static; this in an environment where rugby is competing with numerous other sporting codes for the attention of fans. The springbok coach has undoubtedly learnt from the performance of the front row on this tour and I bet that the insights he has made are a bit more nuanced than the speculative observations of the average rugby supporter.
22 Nov 2009, 19:06 pm
#17 cab: Difference is i want it fixed….you find it acceptable.
22 Nov 2009, 19:07 pm
#18 radiohead: More nuanced?
What the devil does that mean….we not blind…this is not science…its bloody obvious man!
22 Nov 2009, 19:09 pm
till later
22 Nov 2009, 19:10 pm
Grant. Stop shrieking please, you’re tiresome.
22 Nov 2009, 19:17 pm
Apparently, what happens in the front row is entirely obvious to grant. Wow, there are many rugby minds of far greater pedigree who would be wary of making such a bold assertion.
22 Nov 2009, 19:41 pm
and so the seeds of doubt have germinated and are now desperate for more light in which to grow.
22 Nov 2009, 19:48 pm
So, it’s quite clear Smitty has reached the end of a pretty illustrious road. There’s a marginally better hooker in town and he’s never ever in 1000 years going to hack it as a real test prop. So it’s “ride off into the sunset” time for the hardy yeoman of the Bok front row. Times change.
22 Nov 2009, 20:19 pm
Smit needs go nowhere yet and should keep training.
i gotta a feeling the youngsters in SA still got a long way to go to prove themselves, and who knows, perhaps the all be calling for smit to return like what happened in 2008 after losing a few.
he’s been in outstanding form this year. and can go all the way to 2011 as a senior player, which is essential in any team to have these.
22 Nov 2009, 20:22 pm
#14 grant10: the funny thing about it is that, just two months ago the same Os Durant that everyone hails as a scrum miracle maker, commended smit on how he has made the “very dificult” adjustment. Os said smit only needed to get “mentally tough” so that he can handle the latter stages of a game. He revealed that smit spent a weekend @ his farm and he gave him advice.
Now all of a sudden smit’s conversion to tighthead is “stillborn”, a year after he has been playing there. Hhmmm?
22 Nov 2009, 20:23 pm
#19 grant10:
obviously i would prefer our scrum to be strong, but that is not the way its panned out, there’d prob be no-one to touch SA. our lineout and maul are the best tho and i would say on average we have the most intense and athletic forwards at the breakdown – tho france;s display seemed to blow us off the park here – but one wonders if the Bokke were blown away b4 even touching down.
22 Nov 2009, 20:48 pm
Smit is ok on the harder fields down SH way.
Up North where the set phases are crucial he has been found out.
Didn’t make the grade, a luxury we no longer can afford. His replacement at hooker has already been blooded. Fact of life.
22 Nov 2009, 20:53 pm
Something tells me Smit will be 1 st choice hooker at the lions competing for a spot come 2011 against Bissy
Just feel he will need to go head to head with Bissy….and the Sharks is not the place to do it….
I bet some interesting chats going down between Muir, BJ, Cj and Smit…..
Just got a feeling in the bones somethings cooking
22 Nov 2009, 20:55 pm
#30 grant10: I wish.
22 Nov 2009, 20:56 pm
And so he should be…
Ruan to start at 9 if needed
22 Nov 2009, 20:57 pm
#31 SodaJoe: Bob Skinstad reckons BJ keen on a return to SA….somethings gonna give Soda….watch this space!
Remember Alberts and Ludick…..i smell a deal….
22 Nov 2009, 20:58 pm
Smit best captain by a country mile.
But 3rd best hooker on offer.
I rather back the best hooker over the best captain any time.
His importance is overstated.
22 Nov 2009, 20:59 pm
Spurs beat Wolves 9-1 !!!!!!
22 Nov 2009, 20:59 pm
#34 Kronung: name the 2 better hookers??
22 Nov 2009, 21:00 pm
#35 justrugby: Jeepers!!
How did the golf go??
22 Nov 2009, 21:01 pm
#33 grant10: I hope so. We need a lot to set up 2010 and follow through to 2011.
Nice to see a stable scrum for once.
Spies coming off a strong scrum will be very dangerous.
On Saturday I would play Brussow, Deysel, Oom Danie at 8.
I thought Bekker had his best tight game in a green jersey on Saturday.
22 Nov 2009, 21:02 pm
#37 grant10:
Job done and dusted, get Blazer and trophy at our prize giving on Fri night !!!!
22 Nov 2009, 21:02 pm
#35 justrugby: Boet. Leeds 3 Brighton 1. 6 points clear, game in hand. That’s all that counts.
22 Nov 2009, 21:03 pm
#36 grant10: Biz & Strauss?
22 Nov 2009, 21:03 pm
#33 grant10:
but grantie are you talking out of your ring again, or do you actually get this info from a reliable source, not sauce?
22 Nov 2009, 21:03 pm
cheers guys.
22 Nov 2009, 21:04 pm
#36 grant10: Biz and Strauss, and Smit distant 3rd. Hooker needs to be mobile in the modern game, defence and breakdown, and with BJ, Beast, Bakkies and Victor packed around them the extra scrumming power of Smit is debatable.
Great gladiator, but time to go.
22 Nov 2009, 21:05 pm
#38 SodaJoe: Agree with those sentiments Soda…..
Last 20 minutes showed us the road forward i reckon….personally i would play Smit at 2, the leadership and extra scrumming oomph he gives is enough for me to play Bissy off the bench….
With a proper rotation policy Smit may still get to 2011 intact….as a 2…
A Bekker really has come on in leaps and bounds…great to know we will ‘survive’ should VM not be around.
Brussow….what a beauty!
22 Nov 2009, 21:05 pm
#35 justrugby:
think it was wigan, not wolves
22 Nov 2009, 21:05 pm
#40 SodaJoe:
LOl……about blady time…….we need them in the top flight !!!!!
22 Nov 2009, 21:06 pm
#39 justrugby: Congratulations!!!!
Fantastic…you biscuit….you the man!! We must celebrate soon!! Well done champ!
22 Nov 2009, 21:08 pm
#46 charo:
My aplogies , you right !!!
22 Nov 2009, 21:08 pm
#41 SodaJoe: I believe Smit better than them….close with Bissy …but his scrumming is a cut above them both. Smit for me…
#42 cab: speculating….but admit i heard something….but not substantiated.
22 Nov 2009, 21:09 pm
#38 SodaJoe: Have to agree with your trio SJ. The Bekker stigma is the same as AJ stigma. Bekker is just a phenomenal athlete. In the frontrow i would also like to see TM, JS, BJ. Bissy and CJ off wood.
22 Nov 2009, 21:10 pm
#50 grant10:
yeah but what i’m wondering is did you hear it down the pub or from someone close to the Boks.
22 Nov 2009, 21:10 pm
#44 Kronung: Ja…i am not sure as yet….
22 Nov 2009, 21:10 pm
#43 SodaJoe: cheers soda
22 Nov 2009, 21:11 pm
#48 grant10:
LOL….. thanks boet !!!!!!
I’m outa heer, shattered, walked 27 holes at Boshenmeer 30+ heat, early night.
Grant10 if a blind man don’t want to see………he will remain in the darkness !!!!!!
22 Nov 2009, 21:12 pm
Just rugby fill us in on your golfing exploits bud.
22 Nov 2009, 21:12 pm
ok, so bj was on holiday and did a rescue job on this eoyt.
come 2010 what happens in the trinations?
will cj and bj be called up again or will saru stick with the no overseas based players?
if the latter, how will pdv play it – go back to js at 3 or has he settled that js will captain from 2?
22 Nov 2009, 21:12 pm
Smit has been a good captain during difficult times. Those times are over however. Snor is shielding the players from the politics much more than Jake was ever capable of.
We needed a diplomat during the Thabo Mbeki years who gave unrestrained license to the likes of Khompela and other racial nationalists in the ANC. Zuma, on the other hand likes Boere and braais with Steve Hofmeyer and Victor.
Make no mistake, Saru would not have been able to give Stofile the finger over Beast if Mbeki was still in charge.
Having aid that, Smit has had one of his best years. After Bissy, Smit is still one of the best hookers in the country, and still has lots to offer.
But I’d give the captaincy the Matfield, and keep an eye on Brussow as the next long term captain.
That way we can pick Smit when he is needed.
22 Nov 2009, 21:14 pm
yip but if you guys are supposed to be the light in the promised land then we in deep ****. just because old Cyrille Winterbottom, the pubs’ greatest kenner from the kaap, says something is so does not make it so.
22 Nov 2009, 21:14 pm
#52 cab: Someone who is close to the sharks camp…..but its all just rumour…..
But with Jannie and Bissy there….makes sense Cab….
By the way i am sorry for the chidish outburst yesterday….it was uncalled for.
22 Nov 2009, 21:15 pm
#55 justrugby: cheers…chat tomorrow…damn thats great news!!
22 Nov 2009, 21:15 pm
#49 justrugby:
sounds like you had a good day on the course – what are you champion of?
22 Nov 2009, 21:16 pm
#60 grant10:
no problem
22 Nov 2009, 21:16 pm
#57 charo: million dollar question Charo!
22 Nov 2009, 21:18 pm
#62 charo:
I’m Chairman of a Golfing Society…..had our club Champs at Boshenmeer today !!
22 Nov 2009, 21:20 pm
#58 allamapstieks: I don’t think VM would be the right guy to lead the Boks.
22 Nov 2009, 21:22 pm
#66 Shakes: but its the safe option. 2x super 14 trophies ….a couple of CC trophys …and a legendary figure….imagine the outcry if Smit were to leave and someone else was elevated over his head!!
22 Nov 2009, 21:22 pm
#65 justrugby: Congrats Mr Chairman and enjoy your “green” jacket!
22 Nov 2009, 21:23 pm
#66 Shakes: Why not? He does pretty well for the Bulls and our first win against the All Blacks in NZ in 10 years were under him.
22 Nov 2009, 21:24 pm
#65 justrugby:
well done.
i play 2 x 18 holes every weekend here in ghana in 33-35c
killer weather but helps build up a thirst for the frosties afterwards
22 Nov 2009, 21:25 pm
#66 Shakes: …and John Smit often leaves the field at the 60 minute mark, leaving Victor in charge anyway.
22 Nov 2009, 21:26 pm
#69 allamapstieks: Need to invest in a jounger player as captain. Victor 2 years left tops.
22 Nov 2009, 21:26 pm
#67 grant10:
i think you are overplaying smit;s popularity, many ppl were calling for his head in the old days, remember the calls first for gary botha and then schalk brits. in fact, i think most would agree with you that smit should not prop at 3 = i happen to think its not been a bad experiment at all – it needs to be monitored and it may be that smit starts to play off the bench, but thats not a bad situation either.
22 Nov 2009, 21:28 pm
#72 Kronung: I agree, and that player is Brussow me thinks. But Brussow is too fresh to the scene to lead the likes of FDP, Habana, Bakkies and Matfield.
If Matfield leads for two years, then Brussow will have 30 caps come his captaincy, exactly the same amount that Smit had.
(I’m tempted to say make Habana captain actually, but how long does he have left)
22 Nov 2009, 21:30 pm
#67 grant10: G10 what you said is exactly the problem with our rugby and cricket for that matter. When players have too much say (power) you somehow trade some national interests for personal ones. I don’t see that happening in eg Aus. It is one of the major reasons why we tend to make the changes later than we actually should. In the context of our discussion I think the changes for 2011 will be made too late cos we holding on to dear buddies til the proverbial bitter end.
22 Nov 2009, 21:31 pm
#74 allamapstieks:
problem with habana is he;s involved in too many off the ball push and shove.
can a wing make a good captain? i cant remember one actually.
22 Nov 2009, 21:33 pm
here is what i cant understand tho – we have our most succesful season i can remmeber with PdV making this change and ppl are calling for sweeping changes, as if it has not worked whereas the results show the exact opposite, as did the EOY 2008. In fact, the only match we;ve lost on tour with smit at 3 is france in toulouse – that not too shabby at all.
22 Nov 2009, 21:33 pm
#76 cab: We’ll I thought Habana is a bit like Brussow, passionate and constantly encouraging their team mates.
Often players are moderated in their actions with responsibility that comes from being captain.
Take your point on wing though, however, was’nt Carel du Plessis the WP captain?
22 Nov 2009, 21:36 pm
#77 cab: Oh come on Cab, its been pretty clear that we have been suffering in the scrums for a long time. I’m a big Snor fan, but being better is never negotiable.
If we have a destructive scrum together with all the other facets of our play we’d be like Sean Fitzpatrick’s All Blacks, or like the Boks that never lost a test series until the 50′s.
Were the Springboks remember! We want perfection.
22 Nov 2009, 21:36 pm
#73 cab: i wasnt around on keo then….never personally believed he should of been dropped from 2 spot before….
As you know i dont believe he should play at 3…especially now with the pending return of BJ and CJ….
i reckon Smit would retire before accepting a sub role……
But…imo…he cuts it at 2…
22 Nov 2009, 21:37 pm
#71 allamapstieks: Currently VM is being overplayed and he might make it all the way to 2011. I actually see us going into a transition phase with perhaps more changes over the next 2 years. Not sure of his ability to lead and mould a young team. At the Bulls he has a settled team with many leaders in their own right.
22 Nov 2009, 21:38 pm
#78 allamapstieks:
yes and i think habana might be a good choice, was it carel or serfontein i cant remember.
22 Nov 2009, 21:40 pm
#8 grant10: I would have thoughtit better to have bissie for most of game, and if the scores are tight, then Smitty on for last 20 to use his experience to settle and guide the team to close out the game.
#27 Transformation: You cannot honestly tell me that the writing was not on the wall after the first couple of games? The time required for Smit to make a transition to international 3 is just too long. the bok supporters will NOT stand idly by as their bloody scrum gets decimated like it ha sbeen. We have not exactly been dominant in the past, but not FREAKING EMBARRASSED like that before.
FFS get Proudfoiot in from WP- he knows how to get the pack to gel in a scrum. Gary gold is gettig on my tits with his inability to reproduce the forward dominance of the first Lions test.
22 Nov 2009, 21:40 pm
#81 Shakes: Most of those settled leaders are in the Boks as well.
And if Matfield only makes it another season, then fine, bring in Brussow (who will have 20 caps).
22 Nov 2009, 21:40 pm
#75 Shakes: Not sure i feel that VM such a bad captain….in fact i cant really understand the negativity towards him….
He would be my choice…as Vice captain and a certain 1 st choice and a respected player with titles under his captaincy i am not sure why there is such a negative sentiment>?
Anyway…Dewalt Potgieter is being groomed …but currently not a 1 st choice??
Why are uyou so against his appointment if it happens….i would seriously like to know….you know i respect your opinion
22 Nov 2009, 21:41 pm
#74 allamapstieks: Beast has the presence and personality to lead the team. He will be around for a long time.
Pity Julius and company would have a hernia!!
22 Nov 2009, 21:41 pm
#79 allamapstieks:
well ok, you calling for change, lets hope you right, and otehr things not sacrificed. all i am saying is that smit was not playing when the bok scrum got done in by leicester and saracens. he started playing TH halfway thru 2008 where we made our first cleansweep of the EOY in ages, and we beat everyone in 2009 except the french – i can remember worse years with better TH’s – but now i actually want to see what happens with the more conservative selection push that is gathering pace.
22 Nov 2009, 21:42 pm
#77 cab: Cab leave it as it is and we will arrive at WC2011 like England after WC2003.
22 Nov 2009, 21:42 pm
js is one of the most destructive scrummaging hookers in the world.
if he goes back to 2, he should start and play for 60 mins with bismark coming on. thing will have loosened up and this will suit bissie’s style.
vm to take over captaincy when js goes off
22 Nov 2009, 21:43 pm
#77 cab: doesent conceal the poor scrum cab….cant hide it anymore…we need to sort it….no question
22 Nov 2009, 21:43 pm
#77 cab: Front row has not been convincing all year. Being the best doesn’t mean resting on your laurels. Constant improvement is a must.
22 Nov 2009, 21:44 pm
#90 grant10:
yes, i;m going to hold you to it grantie, we will see this new improved squad, you might just get what you hoped for…lets see. remember this conversation well.
22 Nov 2009, 21:46 pm
#89 charo: now we on the same page Charo
22 Nov 2009, 21:46 pm
#88 Shakes:
not so, england were old men by the time they arrived at the RWC 2003. Our boys that played France had an average age of 27, which is 2 years younger than the french at 29. The beauty of this squad is that all of them can prob go to 2011, where they will be about the age of the england squad.
22 Nov 2009, 21:47 pm
#89 charo: Charo, thats just not true.
During the 07 WC and before when he and Bissey ws still sharing the 2 birth, the scrum always went better with Bissey.
Sit may be a good scrummaging hooker, but Bissey is better on that score. In fact I’d go so far to say that an in form Bissey is the best hooker in the world by a country mile.
22 Nov 2009, 21:48 pm
#91 Kronung: absolutely….bear in mind the WC 2011 will be in NH type conditions as well….
#92 cab: My call for a proper tighthead…hold me to it with pleasure….i think that thinking showed merit already on Sat in last 20 min….
22 Nov 2009, 21:49 pm
#85 grant10: G10 I respect him as a player and I hope he is managed correctly to be there in 2011. I must admit that I base my opnion on my perception of him as captain being the following: When things are not going well he looks puzzled and defeated. He is never vocal enough on the field giving instructions outside of lineout calls.
22 Nov 2009, 21:49 pm
Bismarck is the best hooker in the world, and therein lies the problem. He is savagely good in the tightloose, young, fit and agressive. If we had another bismarck on teh field v the french, we would win.
22 Nov 2009, 21:50 pm
#96 grant10:
yes well we will, 20mins is easy when casto has been on for 60, as i say we will see and i will hold you to it.
22 Nov 2009, 21:51 pm
#97 Shakes: He he
Yes, but Smit also looks puzzled at times. But granted, Matfield looks puzzled and and very pissed off.
22 Nov 2009, 21:51 pm
#95 allamapstieks: Bissy is a great player….not sure i would agree that he is a better scrummaging hooker than Smit though?
Best scrums i saw from Boks in last 10 years was the Wales to Sa tour in 2007….Beast….smit and BJ….
But Smit will need to show he is the best at 2 ….lets wait and see…perhaps PDV decides to keep him at 3…
22 Nov 2009, 21:53 pm
#97 Shakes: okay….get your point…
22 Nov 2009, 21:53 pm
#95 allamapstieks: #95 allamapstieks:
mate, they never shared the no 2 berth at rwc2007.
bissie was clearly the reserve.
bissie seems to pop a lot in scrums – experts are saying this is because he extends a little too far forward on the hit.
at rwc2007, in the final, we never budged against england despite having cj at 3.
do you think bissie could move to 3? of course not. so how can he be a stronger scrumming 2 than js?
22 Nov 2009, 21:53 pm
i think bj is going to start at 3 versus ireland…so we going to be right into it.
22 Nov 2009, 21:54 pm
BJ did a good job of scrumming but again conceded a penalty
22 Nov 2009, 21:55 pm
#101 grant10: You can only compare like for like. Put Bissie in that front row and then compare.
22 Nov 2009, 21:55 pm
PDV is no fool.
It was obvious, with JS back at 2, the Italian scrum was in full retreat just like Al Alamein.
BJ, or any real number 3, will only make this bok team even more formdidable.
Being spoilt for choice with 3 great number 2′s does not mean putting one at number 3 is the right choice. It worked so so, I mean we won despite being under pressure in the scrums. Imagine with this important aspect locked up, and this attacking 15 man game we will truelly dominate.
I predict a comfortable win over the Irish, as long as we play 15 man game behind JS at 2 and BJ at 3.
Go boks.
22 Nov 2009, 21:55 pm
#99 cab: the 60 minutes were a low point of Bok scrumming….ever.
Damn it was poor…thank heavens it took 20 minutes for the 1 st scrum…..
Smit will add to the front row….Bob reckons at the practice session on thurs Smit at 2 with Bj was awesome….
22 Nov 2009, 21:56 pm
#104 cab: Yes he will start at 3 and John will be hooking again
I still feel that we are not comparing like for like
BJ came on at the end, will he still be as effective if he started the game?
22 Nov 2009, 21:56 pm
#101 grant10: G10 JS is definitely the best scrummager of our hookers with Strauss 2nd. It is BDP achilles heel.
22 Nov 2009, 21:57 pm
#106 allamapstieks: agree boet…
22 Nov 2009, 21:57 pm
#110 Shakes: Tiaan Liebenberg is a better scrummager than Strauss
22 Nov 2009, 21:58 pm
#107 uncleben: We also need to drop Adi now, this has been entertained for too long
22 Nov 2009, 21:59 pm
#103 charo:
“at rwc2007, in the final, we never budged against england despite having cj at 3.
do you think bissie could move to 3? of course not. so how can he be a stronger scrumming 2 than js?”
John Smit could not move to 3. That much is clear.
To make your deductions based on England circa 2007 WP final is not best I’d say. Besides, who was the tighthead?
22 Nov 2009, 21:59 pm
#107 uncleben: Your para 3….VIVA….
Exactly…well said young man….
No ‘accomodation ‘ selections….
Saw a blogger yesterday say smit to 2 and Bissy to flank!!!
WTF…i almost had a heart attack!
22 Nov 2009, 22:00 pm
#109 JL1: would he be worse???
22 Nov 2009, 22:00 pm
#112 JL1: I actually don’t think so and I support WP/Stormers. Anyway I confine it to the boys on tour.
22 Nov 2009, 22:00 pm
#110 Shakes: ja…i agree..
22 Nov 2009, 22:01 pm
Anyway menere. It’s been nice chatting. Have a good week. I feel positive about the Ireland game.
22 Nov 2009, 22:01 pm
It will be Beast/Smit/BJ, probably the best scrumming frontrow in SA, and i still so ireland are will outscrum them, and this from the weakest irish frontrow in a long time which even oz got the better of….but we wait and see now.
22 Nov 2009, 22:01 pm
#113 JL1: i thought Adi would do well at 12…i was sadly wrong…that channel is hectic, very physical….Adi needs a break…
22 Nov 2009, 22:02 pm
#116 grant10: Most probably not, he is after all a specialist tighthead and a short irritating one at that that, so he should be able to hold his own
So what do we do with beast? Replace him with CJ?
22 Nov 2009, 22:03 pm
#119 allamapstieks: cheers
22 Nov 2009, 22:03 pm
#113 JL1:
boet, you going to have bullshit bertie al over you like a bad rash
22 Nov 2009, 22:04 pm
watch it very carefully, cos there might be some open mouths and some big excuses being fretted over to save face and big words….kyk net.
22 Nov 2009, 22:04 pm
#121 grant10: He is defensive liability as the FH, Centers and every man and his dog attacks that channel
Oh if we could have Frans Steyn and JDV back, some players will never be of international quality
22 Nov 2009, 22:05 pm
Cheers everyone but as a final thought. Seeing that we using some overseas boys if I had one wish I would get JVN at 8 for this game. Goodnite
22 Nov 2009, 22:05 pm
#124 charo: I do not care, he was shoved away like a school boy when he tried to tackle
Do you agree that he should stay at 12?
22 Nov 2009, 22:06 pm
#122 JL1: Wouldnt be my call …CJ a specialist tighthead at Leinster….i dont like the ‘utility’ type selections….
No…Wiaan at 1…Beast on bench….or vice versa…..lets be frank….if adi makes way for WO…then Beast will start…transformation issues, etc.
22 Nov 2009, 22:08 pm
#126 JL1: i think either of F Steyn or JDV would be a most welcome addition to that channel come Sat….BOD will be chomping at the bit….i sense a rather long afternoon for the boks….
22 Nov 2009, 22:09 pm
#127 Shakes: cheers Shakes
22 Nov 2009, 22:09 pm
#129 grant10: We still need to find soem tightheads and centers and fullbacks and another Bakkies
The selectors messed up on this tour and PDV just followed
22 Nov 2009, 22:09 pm
#114 allamapstieks:
already said cj was the 3????
22 Nov 2009, 22:10 pm
#130 grant10: I know his family (BOD), cannot stand him though. He reckons he is above the game
22 Nov 2009, 22:11 pm
#134 JL1: i heard he has an ego the size of texas…well lets hope J Fourie and Co can do the job….must admit i am wary of this game…..
22 Nov 2009, 22:13 pm
#128 JL1:
no i don’t think adi should be 12.
in fact, if pdv feels he needs to play adi, then jf should play 12 and adi 13
22 Nov 2009, 22:14 pm
#134 JL1:
yeah seems that way, but he is bladdy good.
22 Nov 2009, 22:14 pm
#132 JL1: I still reckon we open this game up professionally and cancel the non selection of saffas overseas….we not stopping the okes from leaving anyway….
As you say….locks….tightheads…etc are required…Juandre Kruger….cj….vbj….JVN….loads and loads of talent there…perhaps we need to take the plunge?
22 Nov 2009, 22:20 pm
the heat is on Deans….another loss and who knows what may happen….
22 Nov 2009, 22:21 pm
best hooker’s in country after JS is Liebenberg then Bismark and Strauss. The Wc front row should go Heinke / Du Preez / Blaauw, Liebenberg/Smit/Bismark, WP Nel/ BJ or K. Buys.
22 Nov 2009, 22:21 pm
Cab…will let you know if i hear any more ‘gossip’
Cheers
Outta here
22 Nov 2009, 22:25 pm
yep, liebenberg is next best after bismarck and smit.
22 Nov 2009, 22:26 pm
#141 grant10:
lol, ok – just no more thumb suck.
i’m still waiting for smit;s ‘honorable’ resignation…
22 Nov 2009, 22:29 pm
#143 cab: May still happen…Just read news 24….fark me the Irish are beating the war drums….hectically!!!
Schalk must wear a bullet proof vest….the Croke Park gonna be insane…..oh hell….
22 Nov 2009, 22:32 pm
#144 grant10:
yeah, its one game i dont think schalj should play or if he does so to come in last 20, i think it should be brussow, deysel and rossouw with schalk and potgieter off bench.
22 Nov 2009, 22:33 pm
#143 cab: cabby hiyas mate , hope you are well
firstly smitty will not be leaving the sharks and nor will the dup brothers
i know this not only from what was said in the press but from the mouth of smitties best friend, name shall not be divulged in here
re BJ i cant say , but he did say once that he would never be able to play for another province in SA but the sharks , but who knows , maybe **** muir will convince him
smitty however is signed with the sharks till end 2010 , 2011 is world cup and as i know it thats when the boots get hung up
22 Nov 2009, 22:33 pm
Bismark is the liability at scrum time. Visagie pretty much confirmed it. Smit made way to 3 to accomodate Bismark which was the fly in the ointment all along. Nobody could undertame why but this has been the flaw. Bismark is a weak scrummager stands too tall. Strauss not much stronger. So Smit is best hooker for strong scrum, then Liebenberg, then Strauss Maku whoever. But if we want strength and solidity up front it has to be Du Preez, Blaauw, Heinke at LH, Smit, Liebenberg at Hooker, and WP Nel, K. Buys or perhaps Kruger at TH.
22 Nov 2009, 22:33 pm
#145 cab: Ja….especially if he is not 100 % fit….
Have to get the selection right….this not for the faint hearted…what a season finale!
22 Nov 2009, 22:35 pm
#144 grant10:
thats their best hope for this game..to try and turn it into a war and hope our disciplne lets us down…
22 Nov 2009, 22:37 pm
u have got to see this
h t t p : / /jokes24.co.za/pictures/more/45158_Contributed-by-SSPG13LRugbyPeter-de-Villierss-Christmas-card-to-the-Australian–English–New-Zealand-Rugby-Unions.htm?z=da46ba49172af7a3b5e3e08907724089&?CATEGBORY=pictures
22 Nov 2009, 22:37 pm
if its mobility and activity in loose then Bismark is ok but what he offers in loose he gives away at scrum time. So best candidate in my view is Smit at 2 now and Liebenberg to follow, Bismark off bench. Strauss Maku have to wait in the wings. Pity it won’t happen but thats the best option.
22 Nov 2009, 22:37 pm
skop…together with the right personnel we must look at a proper scrum coach as well….it is not a quick fix…need to employ a real guru specialist as well….Cobus Versagie may be the right oke….he seems to have had great success….Os …Proudfoot maybe….even the frenchie PDV…..
But the general neglect is not going to dissapear overnight.
22 Nov 2009, 22:40 pm
horses for courses Skop….thats the way to go in the pro era.
22 Nov 2009, 22:43 pm
Hi Grant, where has the reply arrow gone?
You will need them for the Ireland match too!!
You must have got the lucky underpants out again on Saturday.
22 Nov 2009, 22:45 pm
Hi Carol…i will follow all the rituals developed over 33 years of test matches….will gladly sacrifice the Golden Retriever to theRugby Gods for a win…
Well done with the cricket!!
22 Nov 2009, 22:47 pm
Gunther…sorry for being mouthy yesterday….wasnt cool..
22 Nov 2009, 22:47 pm
#80 grant10: I reckon Smit should be managed by only playing a sub role to guide teh Boks at the most critical part of the game.
and I think that if he felt the Boks needed him for a critical skill at a critical time, then he would not mind taking a “sub role”. Besides subs are pretty specialised positions nowadays.
22 Nov 2009, 22:48 pm
157….okay….if he was happy with the set up would be great…
22 Nov 2009, 22:49 pm
146 SL,
dunno what happened to reply button, but surely BJ not going to sharks with jan dup and smit? i mean it will be damn good for them, but get the feeling jan dup will want to move and get a starting spot. if they got alberts and maybe bj, going to be a big season, pity frans lost, he;s still leaps ahead of anything in SA.
22 Nov 2009, 22:49 pm
I notice some people still castigating this coach and his assistants for reading the scrum all wrong, for compromising the bok front row by playing Smit at 3 and Bismark 2 and Gurthro, Beast at 11 but which one of them a year ago would have done different. Bismark was hailed by all and sundry as the battle hardened hooker that we needed in the breakdown trenches. So Smit was shifted to 3 to accomodate him. Now it turns out that rules were changed and set scrum is all important again. Hence this chafing about the correct mix at front row. I would promote Heinke/Beast, Liebenberg/Bismark, WP Nel/K. Buys as my WC front row but looks like they going to want to drag Smit and Bismark all the way through
22 Nov 2009, 22:51 pm
11 = 1
22 Nov 2009, 22:51 pm
The golden retriever is not to be used as a bargining tool….
Collingwood was quite useful today wasn’t he, this does mean you will thrash us again on the next outing!!
22 Nov 2009, 22:51 pm
perhaps the WC pair of F Steyn and J Fourie may be the best combo at centre for the attritional war awaiting at Croke Park….fire with fire and all that.
22 Nov 2009, 22:52 pm
#152 g10
agree, we are now definitely on the same page
22 Nov 2009, 22:52 pm
what? did we lose to pomgola in cricket? that is disgraceful.
do we have any fast bowlers any more.
22 Nov 2009, 22:54 pm
162….The 1 day stuff is all kiss and cuddle …too much candy floss….5day test my forte….will spend a day or 2 with the Barmy Army at Newlands over New Year…
That for me is the real deal
22 Nov 2009, 22:57 pm
stuff skittle sticks who’s interested in such old mens tiddly winks pastimes like croquette or skittle sticks, rather talk soccer if you have to.
22 Nov 2009, 22:58 pm
hey it’s fine grant we are all passionate supporters.. another bonus from smit at 2 was the lineouts they looked much more potent sharp throwing to the back gave us a much better attack platform..something that has been missing a bit lately …
22 Nov 2009, 22:59 pm
166 Grant – You will have to get some chants sorted with Justrugby to counter the Barmy Army Boys!!
Get out your green and gold wigs too!! Or dress up as a Roman Gladiator…you probably have the legs!
22 Nov 2009, 22:59 pm
roundball? no ******, they roll around like its the cannes film festival – at least cricket requires some character.
22 Nov 2009, 23:00 pm
167 Hi Skop – You won’t be beating a path to Newlands over the New Year I gather!!
22 Nov 2009, 23:00 pm
168 Gunther…ja…Smit is a damn fine player….and as many have mentioned probably in the best form of his life when it comes to general play….certainly if he reverts to 2 and has a rotation type policy to keep him fresh i reckon that damn dinner will be on me!
22 Nov 2009, 23:01 pm
cab the truth was our batsmen didn’t get enough runs on the board…
22 Nov 2009, 23:03 pm
173 ….Gunther, and the luck was with us English, just for once!
22 Nov 2009, 23:03 pm
169…Carol….what was the song…great legs…shame about the face!!
Ja…Justrugby won the golf title today…so we will no doubt celebrate big …..hoping he will wait till next Saturday…..kill 2 birds with 1 stone…celebrate a bok win over Irish at the same time…
22 Nov 2009, 23:03 pm
173 gunther
hopeless – saw bits and pieces of the new black kid the other day on the 20/20 -sire was walloping it around, had an afr surname – damn good.
22 Nov 2009, 23:04 pm
I reckon he will have more gas in the tank at 2 as well
22 Nov 2009, 23:06 pm
talking of soccer….saw that Henry cheating the irish….bloody hell…was the ref blind….and the linesman?
Shocker…play it again Sam….
Going to the official WC draw party in Cape Town…200 days to go today…incredible.
22 Nov 2009, 23:06 pm
loots bosman.
was out of favour with mickey mouse for a while but now the bees knees
22 Nov 2009, 23:06 pm
175 – Grant..I will be willing the Boks to win. Will they be wearing blue or white next Saturday as the Irish will be in green?
22 Nov 2009, 23:07 pm
Good god who ever wanna waist a whole day or 3 snorting warm beer at Newlands in the hot midday sun. Only mad dogs and Englishmen perform such idiotic deeds. Swimming in the ocean or eyeing the chicks on Danger Beach St James far better idea. On any Sunday, or Friday or Saturday or any other day for that matter.
22 Nov 2009, 23:08 pm
Carol….mmmm…never thought of that….why dont Irish change there kit??
We the ‘guests’???
22 Nov 2009, 23:09 pm
ja ok, if u put it that way, i;d have to agree.
22 Nov 2009, 23:10 pm
seen some babes today that made my eyes bleed….Clifton is cooking…Gabrielle and i just shake our heads in despair….damn to be 30 again!!
22 Nov 2009, 23:11 pm
‘waist’ well thats cause had chicks on the brain, shoulda been ‘waste’.
Chicks waists now thats something worth talking about instead of skittle sticks.
22 Nov 2009, 23:12 pm
181 Skop, do you wear mirror shades so the chicks can’t see you oggling them? Heheheheheh
22 Nov 2009, 23:12 pm
Loots bowman … He has been around for awhile now good player would like to see him in the 50 over game
22 Nov 2009, 23:13 pm
well all….bloody bath water cold….so a shower it is…
Look forward to seeing what PDV has up his sleeve….
Dont be surprised if CJ starts at 3 …i have a hunch…
Outta here
22 Nov 2009, 23:13 pm
182 – England have some very nice purple kit the Irish could ‘borrow’!!
22 Nov 2009, 23:14 pm
188- See you Grant…mind those bleeding eyeballs!!
22 Nov 2009, 23:14 pm
you 40 something’s wishing you were thirty, spare a thought for us ou toppies we already waiting till next lifetime to hit the beach again. Passe is the by word, no more luck till next time around the block.
22 Nov 2009, 23:14 pm
Gunther…where is Gibbs and Kallis??
22 Nov 2009, 23:14 pm
bosman
22 Nov 2009, 23:16 pm
OK I must go…..Skop, nice to tease you again!
CAB, Charo, Gunther another time!
22 Nov 2009, 23:17 pm
Bok’s will take care of Irish no sweat they’ll be chicken feed next weekend nothing to worry about.
Out now.
22 Nov 2009, 23:18 pm
grant kallis injured for rest of one dayers and Gibbs dropped…
23 Nov 2009, 00:12 am
You negative chaps will not be happy unless John Smit – the most successfl Springbok Captain in history – has been dropped, or retires.
South Africa has a history of treacherous treatment of great Captains – Pienaar, Teichmann… Smit?
Build them up and shoot them down – like an English Tabloid – all emotion, minimal facts/knowledge, and a herd mentality.
23 Nov 2009, 00:50 am
Everybody has to retire/be replaced some day. It’s not treachery. It’s just the way the world works.
23 Nov 2009, 01:49 am
Boks should line up on the Irish side for the anthems and refuse to move. I hear that goes down well
198. it doesn’t make a lot of sense to retire when he’s playing the best rugby of his career and he’s the only viable option for captaincy
23 Nov 2009, 02:23 am
No question that Smitty’s currently the captain among captains.
But he’s definitely not the best tighthead prop for the job or even the best hooker for the job. Others are better.
So he has to go.
His time is up.
23 Nov 2009, 04:26 am
Takler you would give anything for smit to be on your side.He is by far the best international captain around
23 Nov 2009, 04:30 am
Please give pienaar a go at scrumi. Even though I think FDP is the best around At the moment , we have to look to the future world cups
23 Nov 2009, 04:30 am
Great captain and hooker but no prop.
23 Nov 2009, 04:37 am
Sarel Pretoruis is the next best world scrumhalf…
23 Nov 2009, 04:38 am
Woo-Hoo, I’ve been counting down the days for this match since the Second Lions Test. And you can be sure so have the Irish Players. This match will decide the Team of the year and World player of the year. From what I’ve seen so far of the Springboks they are a bit like the French in they don’t seem to travel well. Some exciting battles all around the park
Kearney – Kirschner
Bowe – Habana
BOD – Fourie
HOPEFULLY Sexton – Steyn
Heaslip – Kankowski
Wallace – Smit
Ferris – Burger
O’Connell – Matfield
Flannery(Would have started for the Lions if not injured) – Smith
It’s the Front Row where SA really have the Upper Hand, Healy is outstanding in the Loose but he only just turned 22 this month and his opposite’s experience will really be a factor.
23 Nov 2009, 06:06 am
Perhaps you muppets should just take a breath and look around before wailing that JS has been shown up. Why do I say this? Well look at what Italy did to the NZ scrum, even to the extent of bringing the NZ sleeper PoB out in defence of the AB’s. The Boks were not man shamed like the AB’s. Then consider that at least one of the penalties for the Eyeties was when they went around JS and wheeled the scrum. When the Boks did this to the Frogs, the Frogs got the penalty.
Finally, note that the scrum appeared to stabilise when the wily BJ Botha came on. A man much criticised by many keo muppets Botha pretty much proved his worth. He is probably SA’s only replacement for JS who will be better. The others touted by muppeteers are untried youngsters (from WP, that bastion of scrumming nogal), or have been shown up when they replace Smit in the last part of a game.
What to do? 2 choices – bring back BJ or coach JS and the SA scrum more intensively (Os where are you?) and pressure referees by analysing scrum penalties; pretty much like PoB did free for the AB’s. What will actually happen? Who knows as the administrative shambles that is SA rugby probably only has half an experienced person in total. And it’s the bottom half.
23 Nov 2009, 08:00 am
Our scrum was the most solid it’s been all year when Beast and BJ came on and John moved to hooker…
This should be our starting line-up from now on… Bring Bismarck on in the last 30 to run riot… with John moving to prop or leaving the field – depending on the match situation…
23 Nov 2009, 08:26 am
pienaar is out of form because of the national coach
23 Nov 2009, 09:16 am
Div should drop this foreign based selection policy….our biggest defensive weakness at the moment is called Adi, so bring in Jdv (does ANYONE in their right mind want to see Adi defending BoD’s channel???) and recall F. Steyn at fullback…Kirchner was wobbly at best, dunno how anyone could say his kicking out of hand was good, it was p*ss-poor! 3 mistakes in the first 10 muntes against Italy, 2 mistakes in his first 2 touches against France….F. Steyn can be prone to brain-farts at times, but he can punish opposition mistakes from just about anywhere, positionally far better than Zane and much much more to offer on both defence and attack. With Irelands backline and the Boks gassed at the moment we need to shore up our defense big time.
23 Nov 2009, 09:19 am
Div should drop this foreign based selection policy….our biggest defensive weakness at the moment is called Adi, so bring in Jdv (does ANYONE in their right mind want to see Adi defending BoD’s channel???) and recall F. Steyn at fullback…Kirchner was wobbly at best, dunno how anyone could say his kicking out of hand was good, it was poor! 3 mistakes in the first 10 minutes against Italy, 2 mistakes in his first 2 touches against France….F. Steyn can be prone to brain implosions at times, but he can punish opposition mistakes from just about anywhere, positionally far better than Zane and much much more to offer on both defence and attack. With Ireland’s backline and the Boks gassed at the moment we need to shore up our defense big time.
23 Nov 2009, 09:22 am
HUsky one thing that surprised me was when Mils got banged into touch and didn’t score, he had the ball under the wrong arm!! Schoolboy error….I’m pretty sure if he’d had it inhis left arm and reached for the line he could have dotted down before getting hit into touch
That said, the AB’s never really kicked it up into top gear…
23 Nov 2009, 10:44 am
206. husky:
Yes JS did ok as a decent tight head.
But be honest, we (boks scrum) has been under pressure!!!
No matter the cause this is the fact.
I for one, understand referee bias/ bs. But I am also tired of blaming the refs and screaming unfair even if Wayne Barnes is a DOOS.
So rather than that, BJ in front row and get the perception back that the boks are the best scrummagers in the world, like we used to be.
At least we have JS option to move to 3 as additional cover.
23 Nov 2009, 13:01 pm
@husky: You are spot on Husky. Basically the only SA TH better than JS is BJ and he plays overseas. Give Bissie a rest this game (from the bench) and start with BJ. In the 3N its back to Beast, Bissie, Smit. We should have 2 props on the bench rather than a hooker.
23 Nov 2009, 14:16 pm
@Ratel Brussow (MSIUR): Ja, lets try Smit back at hooker this game and see how he goes. The only game the front row of Beast, Bismarck and John have struggled in was against Aus. The others they’ve held their own or dominated.
24 Nov 2009, 15:55 pm
Hope Smit is Hooker. He is absolutely sh1te anywhere else in the front row. His best performances have only been from wearing the No.2. He is totally dominated by his opposition as prop. Please PDV keep him wearing no.2!!!!
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