Deans in no danger of axe
23 Nov 2009
Australian Rugby Union chief executive John O’Neill says that coach Robbie Deans’s job is safe despite a season of poor results.
The Wallabies were woeful in their 9-8 defeat to Scotland at Murrayfield on Saturday, and Deans has an ordinary record of just 14 victories and a draw from 27 Tests since taking over last year. Under his leadership they have won just two of their last 10 Tests, including winning just one match in the Tri-Nations.
O’Neill said he was ‘devastated’ by the loss, but he refuted the suggestion that Deans, who is contracted until after the 2011 World Cup, was in danger of losing his job.
‘We have every confidence in Robbie Deans being the right coach for us,’ O’Neill told the Sydney Morning Herald.
O’Neill explained that there would be a review of the season with Deans and leading officials from the ARU after their year-end tour, but stressed that it wouldn’t be an attack on the coach.
‘The results are clearly disappointing and not acceptable,” O’Neill said. ‘We have two more games to go on the tour and rest assured we will be reviewing every aspect of this tour. [High Performance manager] David Nucifora, myself, Robbie Deans and the ARU board will have a good, hard look at what is going wrong.
‘It will be an objective, balanced assessment of the pros and cons of this entire season. It will take in all of the Test matches starting from June and finish off with this tour. ‘It is crucial that we are really confrontational with every aspect of “Team Wallaby”.’
Defeat in the midweek fixture against Cardiff on Tuesday is sure to heap additional pressure on Deans. However, he has named a young but competent side to face the Blues.
Australia - 15 James O’Connor, 14 Lachie Turner, 13 Ryan Cross, 12 Tyrone Smith, 11 Kurtley Beale, 10 Matt Toomua, 9 Luke Burgess, 8 Richard Brown, 7 Matt Hodgson, 6 Mitchell Chapman, 5 Dean Mumm (c), 4 Dave Dennis, 3 Sekope Kepu, 2 Tatafu Polota-Nau, 1 Pek Cowan.
Subs: 16 Salesi Ma’afu, 17 Matt Dunning, 18 Mark Chisholm, 19 George Smith, 20 Richard Kingi, 21 Quade Cooper, 22 Luke Morahan.
189 Comments
23 Nov 2009, 08:32 am
not so sure
23 Nov 2009, 08:40 am
Isn’t that the sort of press statement that often gets released just before a coach leaves??
23 Nov 2009, 08:55 am
Oh Flower of Scotland ! Cant believe Giteau missed the conversion – made my evening !
23 Nov 2009, 08:58 am
Today, the whole day, and the whole week, and the whole of next year, ……….
I AM A SCOT !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
23 Nov 2009, 09:08 am
Oh Wallabie
Wherefore art thou?
Speak up loser!
23 Nov 2009, 09:21 am
Wallabies are brilliant one week and shocking the next.
23 Nov 2009, 09:36 am
No, Wallabies are brilliant one week and shocking the next 4 – 5.
23 Nov 2009, 10:06 am
an axe by any other name… is still an axe…
The headline says “Deans in no danger of axe”
Well, if the rumours are to be believed, I’m sure Phil Waugh and few other players wouldn’t mind burying the hatchet with Deans…
burying it as deeply as possible in his back…!!
I’d say he’s in big danger…!!!
23 Nov 2009, 11:35 am
I am here.
Not too far away.
I am not too concerned about the wallabies. they are crossing the line but failing to turn it into points.
Deans is not getting the rub of the green…it will come. I would be concerned if they did not have opportunities.
This a young side teething towards maturity.
Enjoy our loss while it lasts because I will be enjoying our victories very soon.
Although our loss to Scotland cant be as bad as olosing to Leicester and Saracens.
23 Nov 2009, 11:36 am
Deans is safe because we all can see what he is trying to do…building up the stocks and getting youth in.
He gets it right next year it is going to be a sorry few years for many a opposition.
23 Nov 2009, 11:48 am
@wallabie.: Keep on saying to yourself you might even believe it
23 Nov 2009, 11:54 am
@wallabie.:
What’s with the stupid pencil-thin taches all your players have now.
23 Nov 2009, 11:58 am
@Dawn:
They are actually all wannabie porn stars..they are in the wrong game!!
pun intended.
23 Nov 2009, 12:01 pm
@JL1:
what were the boks track record a year out before the world cup.
Reckon the wallabies still have a better year than that of the boks then.
23 Nov 2009, 12:02 pm
@wallabie.:
Goodness they look stupid.
23 Nov 2009, 13:01 pm
S C O T L A N D !
S C O T L A N D !
S C O T L A N D !
S C O T L A N D !
S C O T L A N D !
S C O T L A N D !
S C O T L A N D !
S C O T L A N D !
S C O T L A N D !
23 Nov 2009, 13:05 pm
@wallabie.: TEST MATCH RUGBY!!!! Actually the last time we lost to Scotland was in the dark years of Straeli. He kept saying he was building for the future and concentrating on the World Cup. Sound familiar? It was our worst WC ever!!!!
23 Nov 2009, 13:07 pm
@wallabie.: Walla what happened against Scotland
23 Nov 2009, 13:10 pm
@Dawn:
Good on you Dawn. Proud of those Scots beating Oz. They defended like demons well bravehearts 
Felt good for my Scottish mates to get that win. They probably still having a party over there
23 Nov 2009, 13:30 pm
@Ratel Brussow (MSIUR):
We are actually rebuilding and not some lame excuse streauli used to keep himself in the gravy train.
23 Nov 2009, 13:31 pm
@Puma:
Lowering ourselves as low as the boks.
23 Nov 2009, 13:33 pm
@Ratel Brussow (MSIUR):
that loss to the scots in games is not too long ago for the boks.
How long ago was the loss to leicester and saracens?
23 Nov 2009, 13:34 pm
@wallabie.: Rebuilding what? Cause from my angle its a house of cards that keep collapsing every time a breeze blows.
23 Nov 2009, 13:36 pm
@wallabie.: Not as recent as the TEST MATCH loss to SCOTLAND. Haha, you are an embarrassment to Southern Hemisphere rugby. Come on pull up your socks, you’re discrediting all of us.
23 Nov 2009, 13:38 pm
@wallabie.: Boks lost to France who are playing great rugga Walla.
Thought Gits would get that conversion and it missed by miles.
Just had to feel happy for my Scot mates that went to the game. The faces of all the Scottish supporters in the stand was brilliant. They probably thought they lost it too when Oz got that try in extra time. Then the missed conversion just saw all of them in the stands going crazy. For them it will be like winning a world cup.
I know well. I had four Scottish mates here in 2002 and told them that Boks would slaughter them and they beat us that day. Have never lived it down
They will remind me of that forever.
Ag, it goes like that really. Oz will be up for this game against Wales this week but think Wales are playing some good rugby, it wont be easy. Nor will be the game for the Boks against Ireland. Going to be tough. Think we do miss the 4 players that are missing.
23 Nov 2009, 13:41 pm
@wallabie.: Walla those games against Sarries and Tigers. That was not the Springboks. That was SUPPOSED to be our 2nd best side but it was not. About 10 players never got selected to tour that should have. Not sure why they selected some of those players that went. Crazy. Here we called them the Dirt Tracker team not the Boks. So I really don’t count those games. That was not SpringBoks playing.
23 Nov 2009, 13:43 pm
i am a proud saffa today.
proud of my scots kin and proud of my bokke.
23 Nov 2009, 13:43 pm
@wallabie.: Keeping on about Leicester and Saracens is clutching at straws. We are talking TEST rugby, not midweek games by second.thrid stringers! But, If we have lost to NZ 4 times, SA twice, once to Scotland and drew against Ireland, I to would probably be clutching at straws…. Only two wins against teams in the top four this year!
The boks have played 11 games against teams in the top four this year (I think I can say that the B & I Lions are ranked above you guys this year). Only one game agianst a team outside the top 4 and still we ahve a better record!
But, like u said, it may all change soon…
23 Nov 2009, 13:44 pm
@wallabie.:
Don’t start a brawl.
We ain’t gloating.
23 Nov 2009, 13:47 pm
the wallabies are pretty poor at the moment and i just dont see them getting all that much better before 2011.
i am not wishing anything bad on them but just saying it like i see it.
when you take into account the fact that some of their stars are on their last legs and may not make 2011, it paints a pretty poor outlook for them.
23 Nov 2009, 13:47 pm
@Dawn: Scotland Obray!
23 Nov 2009, 13:54 pm
@rangerman:
You can say that again
23 Nov 2009, 13:59 pm
@Dawn: Scotland Obray!
23 Nov 2009, 14:00 pm
The ozzies really devalued the Tri-Nations victory for boks. What a bunch of plonkers, loosing to Scotland!
23 Nov 2009, 14:01 pm
@wallabie.:
You got a point there.
Scotland is bad enough, but LEICESTER and SARACENS ???!!??????
W T F
As for Scotland, well it had been 27 long years since they beat Australia. Altho its been only 7yrs since they beat the Boks. Who were lucky to escape Murrayfield 12mths ago with that proud record still intact.
23 Nov 2009, 14:04 pm
@rangerman:
I can’t HHHEEEEEEEAAAARRRR you!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
23 Nov 2009, 14:05 pm
cmon kiwis and wallabie supporters…….be honest now……you were our ******* this year.
we may have been diabolical for many years, but in 2009 we are clearly head and shoulders above the rest of the world.
the ab’s and wallabies?
eh, not so much
23 Nov 2009, 14:10 pm
@WakaNathan: It really hurts knowing that the boks where and is better than NZ and Aus this year, doesn’t it?
23 Nov 2009, 14:14 pm
@fsjakes:
Altho, its a struggle to remember how bad it must feel to lose to the team that lost to Scotland.
23 Nov 2009, 14:16 pm
@WakaNathan: Not as bad as not being able to beat the side that lost to the team that lost to scotland…
23 Nov 2009, 14:18 pm
haha, just like it must be horrible to think that we beat the team (argies) who beat the team that beat the kiwis out of wc2007 (the frogs) TWICE
suck it up. 2009 will forever be the year of the bok.
you know it, we know it.
the irb know it.
23 Nov 2009, 14:44 pm
@WakaNathan:
atleast NZ and Aus know what it feels like to beat France this year.
23 Nov 2009, 15:34 pm
@rangerman: Head and shoulders above Frogs, too? cmon, 0-3 in last 3 Tests.
So, speaking about the *******, Frogs own you.
23 Nov 2009, 16:11 pm
@WakaNathan: True, but THAT is about IT…
23 Nov 2009, 16:25 pm
@Nils: silly nils.
france beat nz IN nz, when nz were fresh as daisies.
we lost in france, by 7 points, at the end of a very long season.
if you want to stick to your line of reasoning, fine. what it really means is that france and south africa are better than nz.
but if you took off the goggles for a bit you might actually be able to admit that beating nz 4 out of the last 6 tests means the boks have the wood over the all blacks for a change.
i guess it is the churlishness of nz supporters that truly turns me off them. the national sport of denial is actually what leads to the schadenfreude displayed by fans of other nations when nz crash out of another world cup.
me? i respect nz and am just enjoying the boks being unequivocally better than them at the moment.
23 Nov 2009, 16:35 pm
@rangerman: Cmon. Nobody argues that SA played better than NZ this year. Not me.
I do not recall myself calling Boks as ABs ******* when they were owned in recent years. Silly thing of respect, I guess. I can understand that finally it’s your time to party, and who can deny that. Just let’s not a bit overcelebrate.
Speaking of Frogs win in NZ, “fresh as daisies” means rusty as hell. I know it. You know it. No disrespect to the Frogs, they finally send good team down there and reaped the rewards while hosts were rusty.
“at the end of a very long season”, yes, you are right. The problem is, Boks are not the only ones. And if ABs who have had even more long season and more enduring tour (compare 5 Tests + BaaBaas to 3 Tests) do beat the Frogs on Saturday, I’m afraid, your argument will fly out of the window.
Again (to make things more relaxed) no argument, Boks were better than ABs this year. You know it, I know it.
I may change soon again.
23 Nov 2009, 16:37 pm
Pass me a Cuban cigar while I buy my bonny Scotsmen a whiskey.
23 Nov 2009, 16:38 pm
@Dawn: wearing a kilt?
23 Nov 2009, 16:39 pm
@Big Hit:
They better be wearing kilts.
The lot of them.
23 Nov 2009, 16:47 pm
@rangerman: “if you want to stick to your line of reasoning, fine. what it really means is that france and south africa are better than nz.”
Just one more remark for a friendly banter. Ok, SA-NZ 3-0, SA-Fra 0-1, Fra-Aus 0-1, Aus-NZ 0-4. Full circle.
Just kidding, do not feel offended.
23 Nov 2009, 16:54 pm
@Dawn:
one man’s kilt is another man’s skirt…
23 Nov 2009, 17:00 pm
@gunther:
Try telling that to my bonny front row.
23 Nov 2009, 17:01 pm
@Nils: you are right nils.
i apologise to all the level headed nz fans.
i guess i just got a little mad when the GH triumvirate had nothing to say other than “the boks are boring and the rules must change”
and then some kiwi fans gave us the same disrespect shown by the BIL’s media contingent.
its all banter anyway man, no offence intended.
the same line of reasoning does not apply with wind up merchants like waka/blackpanther you understand i am sure
23 Nov 2009, 17:03 pm
@fsjakes:
Apparently another round of fixtures tells us that THAT is not IT, yet.
The ABs have not, for example, lost to Australia in 2009. Nor have they lost to Ireland.
In this or any other year in existence.
The fact remains that despite your churlish attempts to windowbox an entire season within a wrapping barely big enough for discarded chewing-gum, the 2009 season has not yet been complete. Much like the Boks performance throughout the year, their 1st-Half glories have been followed by a rather ordinary, nay shambolic, inglorious-bas’**** of a 2nd-Half whilst the chasing pack accelerate passed and on in to the horizon.
23 Nov 2009, 17:20 pm
And that is why I know that you hurt more than me!
We can go back and forth and you can say whatever you want. The boks and the AB’s are both great rugby nations. But in 2009, whether we loose to Ireland and u beat Fransce or not, we were the better team this year. I’m not saying the AB’s are bad or pathetic or that the Boks are a finished product. I’m just saying we had a good year, a better year than NZ and Aus.
So, just get over yourself.
23 Nov 2009, 17:24 pm
@rangerman: I can assure you that I am equally pissed off about tinkering with the rules of the game and whingeing about “boring rugby” whoever says it and whoever it is directed against.
23 Nov 2009, 17:26 pm
@Nils: I have to thank u for your level headedness and respect u have shown to SA rugby and supporters. It’s be cause of people like u that I will always support the Blacks when they play other teams. But, I have to say that its hard to do with other NZ supporters always trying to stir things up on this site.
23 Nov 2009, 17:28 pm
@fsjakes: Well, we all have them. I am biased, too, make no mistake, and hope we’ll put things right next year.
23 Nov 2009, 17:30 pm
Funny thing is, I have a feeling you will.
23 Nov 2009, 17:35 pm
@fsjakes: It remains to be seen. One thing for me is sure, ABs will not as bad as they were. Whether Boks will remain as good as they are, we’ll see.
23 Nov 2009, 17:50 pm
@Nils: I think alot depends on next year’s S14. The Boks tend to do well in years when one or two of their S14 teams are very competitave. I also think that alot depends on whether PdV will stop with his experimentations of Smit and Pienaar. And ofcourse, injuries. I think we are a due a season of injuries. It’s already strarted.
I agree, the Blacks wount be as bad. I hope Conrad Smith stays injury free. I rate him, the backline looks good with him there. Delany is also a better 2nd choice than Donald. So yes, you guys will def be better next year.
I am struggling to see where Aus is going to improve. Will be good to see a three horse race for 3N for a change. Always one team that hits a downer.
23 Nov 2009, 17:51 pm
@fsjakes:
Yep, that Tackler sure is a nuisance.
He’s a Safa, dont you know.
23 Nov 2009, 17:57 pm
@WakaNathan: WakaNathan, please answer these two questions:
If you reduce the impressive season (B&I Lions and 3N) the Boks had to “a wrapping barely big enough for discarded chewing-gum”, was there ever a season in which the All Blacks achieved more?
Secondly, if you describe the Bok’s performance this year as “ordinary, nay shambolic, inglorious-bas’****”, how would you describe the AB’s performances sofar?
Thirdly, do subscribe to the generalised NZ view that the 3N doesn’t mean anything, nor does the World Cup? That the only cup that really matters in the Bledisloe Cup?
23 Nov 2009, 17:58 pm
Sorry, the third one came up as I typed.
23 Nov 2009, 18:13 pm
@fsjakes:
They think winning the WC can also be wrapped in a chewing gum wrapper !!
I think you right, they only view the Bledsiloe Cup as relevant……
by the way that has got to be the silliest and ugliest looking trophy in world rugby !!!
23 Nov 2009, 18:20 pm
@fsjakes: Why do you think it is “generalised NZ view”?
IMHO, WC and 3N mean very very much down there. That’s why WC failures hurt and 3N records are source of a huge pride.
I suppose, it is just different from a view, that WC is THE ONLY thing that matters and sod everything else. It is convenient weapon aimed at one particular team. You know, which one.
Such banner you can see here now and then, especially when it concerns England, for example: +/- ***** for 3.9 years and usually punching above their weight in the remaining 0.1 (ok, I am exaggerating a bit here but you understand the point). And for all this ***** is one description “building for xxxx WC”. For me, let’s call ***** a *****, not “building for”.
23 Nov 2009, 18:23 pm
@fsjakes:
1. The Boks are leaping from the rafters after winning 1 x TriN in 2009.
The Blacks had just come off 4 x consecutive TriNs.
Prior to the TriN, the Boks played the Lions whilst NZ played France. Its too hard to say which pre-TriN Series was the hardest given that the Boks beat the Lions but couldnt beat France. Atleast NZ beat France in the 2nd/Final Test.
In the year that the ABs beat the Lions 3-0 whilst scoring 100pts, they also took the TriN (2005). They also ended the season ranked World no1. So, yes, to answer your Ques – the ABs have had a season when they achieved more than the Boks in 2009.
2. The ABs season has been a poor one by their standards. But there is more to a sandwich than just the ham and cheese in the middle, you still have 2 slices of bread with which to contend.
I would say that if NZ draw with France in NZ 1-1; beat France in France (?); have their line, uncrossed, for 2 consecutive NH tours; and end it as World no1, then it would be graded no more than a ‘B – could do better’.
But the NZ graph denoting Results/Performance has shown an increasing yield throught the 2009 season whereas others may have 1 too many spikes with which to *pop* their bubble.
3. I suscribe to the notion that every game matters. However, can you answer me this:-
Ques – did you suscribe to the view, prior to winning the 2009 TriN, that only the RWC mattered ?
The Answer is relevant to both my Ques and yours.
23 Nov 2009, 18:28 pm
@WakaNathan: Maybe…but if the Boks win the 2011 world cup the AB’s will never catch up
23 Nov 2009, 18:29 pm
@Nils: No, I don’t really. I’m just taking a jab at WakaNathan.
23 Nov 2009, 18:34 pm
@fsjakes: Waka has a valid point. For many blokes here for a long time it was only WC who mattered – which, by a pure coincidence
was already in their trophy cabinet. Now 3N trophy matters very much, too – and again, after locking it safely.
23 Nov 2009, 18:35 pm
@Nils: As you can see from his posts today, unlike you, he just can’t be a man and own up that the Boks had a good season and is a good team.
23 Nov 2009, 18:41 pm
@fsjakes: …and the Bulls had a GREAT season and thrashed the best New Zealand had on offer…
23 Nov 2009, 18:41 pm
@fsjakes: Who knows? As for me, this year was the best for South Africa in recent memory surpassing even 1998, while 2004 is nothing comparing to this. 3-0 vs NZ in one year is a sign of a very very good team.
23 Nov 2009, 18:44 pm
@Storm outta hell: Yes and no. Yes – great season, no – thrashed Crusaders? No, you thrashed Chiefs and hardly more than 2-3 chieftains would make best possible ABs squad, I guess.
Do not get me wrong, Bulls were great. They would never do such a shameful thumping of Saders though. Beat them – yes, thump them – never.
23 Nov 2009, 18:45 pm
@WakaNathan: On your first answer, rugby is to complicated to compare your our B & I Lions win with ours. Different teams, coaches, conditions, etc. You missed my point though, I would never reduce a great All Black seoson, like 2005, to the insult you reduced the Boks season too. Be man, and say well-done for 2009!
On your second answer, you actually didn’t answer my questio, You described the Bok’s performances this year as “ordinary, nay shambolic, inglorious-bas’****”. So, give me three discriptive words on how you would describe the AB’s performances this year?
Lastly, I agree with you that every test matters. When it comes to the 3N the AB’s have been the best and most consistend. Now, be a man, and say: “Well-done Bokke on a great 2009.”
23 Nov 2009, 18:48 pm
@fsjakes:
and where exactly did I say that ?
23 Nov 2009, 18:51 pm
@Nils: Ya,yah…but “saders never made it to the finals…so therefore Chiefs were the best team fielded by New Zealand
23 Nov 2009, 18:54 pm
@Storm outta hell: Check mate!!
23 Nov 2009, 18:56 pm
@fsjakes:
1. you seem to keep repeating that I have said ‘Boks arent a good team’ and that I have “insulted” them.
Where ?
I merely pointed out that:-
(a) Boks were excellent in 1stH of matches throughout the Year, yet were not in 2ndH of matches.
The anology is with their season – better at the start than at the end (1stH / 2ndH)
2. I did answer your Ques, you want 3 words ? – “could” “do” and “better”.
au contraire, you didnt ask my Ques @
3. Before TriN’09, did you suscribe to the view, prior to winning the 2009 TriN, that only the RWC mattered ?
because on a fairly vague poll conducted over the entire Keo history, the vast majority inexplicably answered ‘Yes’. Now, I wonder why that was….
23 Nov 2009, 18:58 pm
@WakaNathan: What?
23 Nov 2009, 19:00 pm
@Storm outta hell:
I do recall that of the 4 teams that made it to the S14 Finals, that the sole SA contender was the Bulls. And that they won. Superbly too.
However, there were 3 Kiwi teams still in contention. And this in the same year that Safas b*tched and complained that they deserved 1 more team.
23 Nov 2009, 19:02 pm
@WakaNathan: You are arguing aournd the main issue. So, I will ask it to you simply:
Do you think that the Boks had a good a season and achieved more that the AB’s in 2009?
23 Nov 2009, 19:07 pm
@WakaNathan: Dude…real thinking Saffers have long realised that we don’t deserve another team…in fact one team less would strengthen SA rugga…that is once again joining the Lions and Cheetahs whom are basically bonus point teams propping up the log…but the bleeding hearts just won’t let go…you gotta live here to appreciate the circus…yet despite the handicaps the Boks are still performing…try and put yourself in our shoes and imagine leaving M’caw at home ’cause a player of colour plays ahead of him because of his race….you ain’t got a clue
23 Nov 2009, 19:14 pm
@Storm outta hell: I think all the guys in the 1st team deserve their places.
I am not referring to the dirt tracker experiments, most of whom are a joke.
23 Nov 2009, 19:15 pm
@fsjakes:
Im not arguing around the issue, Ive answered specific ques’s precisely. You on the other hand refuse to answer Ques’s at your own discretion.
The Boks beat the Lions 2-1, after previously losing 1-2.
The Boks won the TriN, after 3-consecutive TriN Wooden Spoons.
So in terms of achievements, by the Boks standards, they have had an exceptional Year. Especially if the Year started on June 13th and ended on September 12th.
Perhaps that is the Sth African equivalent of Chinese New Year ?
In comparison
ABs drew 1-1 with France
ABs came 2nd in TriN after 4 consecutive titles.
Are unbeaten in NH, not conceding 1 Try.
Could end 2009 as World no1.
So, youre right, by AB standards that is pretty p*ss poor.
Have we answered your Ques’s yet ? and when will you answer mine ?
23 Nov 2009, 19:23 pm
@Kronung: The guys have done well…but how many times did Ricky have to f-up till he was dropped….selections have cost us dearly…both black and white….had we played our in form CC players we should not have lost a match on this EOYT….I find that unacceptable….now Waka brands us losers and he’s absolutely right…but we are handicapped by selections whilst GH is free to pick his best combinations…all in the name of transformation.
23 Nov 2009, 19:25 pm
@fsjakes: To add to that question.
Do you think that your victory over France (although you played them in NZ, had two games against them and a third coming) and our inability to beat France this year in a once-off test, makes NZ the better team this year?
I agree that SA’s season is much like their performances during games. They won most their games in the first half and took their foot of the pedal. Much like the season, they won the major games that made their season a success already and now aren’t playing to their full potentail.
Would you agree that the same goes for NZ? Flashes of brilliance and good play throughout the game that coincides with moments of mere mediocrity? Moments with great wins, but mostly below-par performances (that incledes Wales and England).
I did answer your question. Read my post again. Like you I believe that every match is important.
23 Nov 2009, 19:25 pm
fsjakes, you are wasting your time with waka – the cop out champion of keo.
what you should rather do is peruse the sports sections of nzherald and read the columns.
it will give you a better idea of the mindset of the average all black supporter.
nowhere else in the world will you read such fawning over a sports team – cringeworthiness of note.
23 Nov 2009, 19:26 pm
@Storm outta hell:
Firstly, if you believed that SA didnt deserve 1 or more 2 teams than their equal-SANZAR partners, then you appear to be in the Keo-minority.
G10 will roll out a list of gripes starting with something along the line of ‘kissing cousins’. Whatever.
Secondly, I dont go along with this woe-betide-us-poor-Quota-enforced-Safas mentality. Fact remains that SA has 4-5 senior registered players to every 1 Kiwi. Furthermore, not everyone agrees that Quotas (if indeed they do exist) is a hindrance. In fact, it seems to me that without those same Quotas, SA Rugby have for entire generations hindered an incredibly deep pool of previously-untapped talent. On this tour alone, I have seen Earl Rose play 2 strong games despite 1-2 years of disgraceful ‘token’ calls, whereas I have seen other accepted ‘future Bok stars’ wilt in the face of UK Club teams without firing so much as a pop-gun. And I wonder if Ashley Johnson would have previously been exposed to enough top rugby that would allow him to prove he has genuine talent for the top level.
23 Nov 2009, 19:29 pm
@fsjakes:
Answer me this then:-
Who is the better team – Boks or France ?
23 Nov 2009, 19:29 pm
@WakaNathan: There was a time when AB’s looked at the trophy cabinet to judge their year, nothing else.
Statistical gymnastics are just that, a lifeline to supporters in denial.
All that counts is who is buying the Brasso at the moment……
23 Nov 2009, 19:35 pm
@WakaNathan: Who is polishing the silverware this year? France or South Africa or Kiwi’s for that matter.
Or are you suggesting that to be the best you can never lose?
23 Nov 2009, 19:36 pm
@WakaNathan: WakaNathan, I am not arguing that the AB’s are a bad team or that their achievements are not great. Even better than that of South Africa, especially in the professionlan era.
But, why do you find it so difficult to just say “Well-done” and leave it. Why do you always have to have an “my dad is bigger than your dad” aittitude?
Id you want to be truely honest, the Blacks haven’t exaclty set the stage a light on their Europene tour. Their voctories over Wales and England wasn’t exactly fantastic. They did not play flawless rugby and ran them off their feet. And, you haven’t played France in France yet.
I don’t undetstand. I ask you a question and you answer it “I believe every match in important”. You ask me a similar question and I say: “I agree with you, every match is important”. Yet, in my case I’m not answering your question according to you.
Stop trying to be so super intellectual. Just be real and give credit where it is due (without a hint of sarcasm).
23 Nov 2009, 19:38 pm
@WakaNathan: Oh Boy…our best FB in the Super 14 doesn’t make the squad(Stefan Terreblanche)…Ricky Januarie gets picked at SH but comes off the bench(as late as possible) for the Stormers….and did you see the try the Italians scored cutting thru’ a hapless Adi Jacobs on Saturday….I could go on for hours…but the fact of the matter is we have far better players at home…do yourself a favour and watch the CC…and get educated…we beat u with a handicapped team…that’s what makes us so good…!!!
23 Nov 2009, 19:39 pm
@Kronung:
Is that your final answer ?
Doh !
you havent given 1 yet…….
who is better, France or Boks ?
23 Nov 2009, 19:41 pm
@WakaNathan: Right now France are fresher…but woe betide them when the fans trash their National anthen on a cold day in Kimberley…revenge will be swift and sweet..!!
23 Nov 2009, 19:42 pm
@fsjakes:
You keep avoiding the Ques’s, repeatedly. Which is what you accused me of doing.
1. did you suscribe to ‘only RWCs matter’ last year ?
2. who is currently the better team, France or Boks ?
23 Nov 2009, 19:42 pm
@WakaNathan: We played a once-off test against France in France. They won that test fair and square. They were the better team on the day.
The arguement in your question is stupid. It silly.
We played the AB’s three times: 3 – 0
Australia 3 times: 2 – 1
Lions 3 times: 2 – 1
To now argue that because we lost to France in a once-off test and you (if all goes right) would have beaten France 2 – 1, therefore the AB’s has a better season.
You honestly can’t be that bad a looser or so incapable of just letting another team be the best for once in a while.
23 Nov 2009, 19:43 pm
@Storm outta hell:
I didnt ask “who is fresher ?”
I said “who is better ?”.
fresher ? we’re not buying fruit’n'veg here y’know. They are simple Ques’s.
23 Nov 2009, 19:45 pm
@WakaNathan: This is silly, I haven’t met a more one-eyed person who is full of himself than you.
Please go read the threat again. I answered both questions.
23 Nov 2009, 19:46 pm
@WakaNathan: Ag Siestog!! I understand.
Must agree your approach is stupid though.
23 Nov 2009, 19:47 pm
@WakaNathan: Oh you ***…let’s see how fresh yr AB’s are against France at the end of seeing their collective asses against the Boks in the 3N’s
23 Nov 2009, 19:51 pm
Pain is a terrible thing.
23 Nov 2009, 19:51 pm
I have stated before that I believe the current quality of AB’s are not good enough do dominate the game as before and the lack of quality in depth is alarming. They have no decent scrum half, nor a replacement for Carter and no decent replacement for Mccaw as skipper.
They have a poor lock combimation, for the first time in many a year no world class No8.
They will still be good enough to beat most NH sides (france game will be interesting) but any AB supporter should be really concerned !!!! This lack of depth of world class players is not something NZ are used to.
The Air New Zealand competition produced poor rugby, poor crowds and generally a poor advertisment for the game.
Be intersting to see how NZ react, however i predict come 2011 that the AB’s will still only have one WC win !!
23 Nov 2009, 19:51 pm
@fsjakes:
How convenient, then, that you were unhappy with my windowboxing the Boks season 1 minute, and yet refusing to acknowledge Frances superiority because it is limited solely to “better team ON THE DAY”.
My, those double-standards do tend to creep in dont they.
The Boks have lost the last 3 matches to France, home and away. And yet youre so incapable of acknowledging a superior team – exactly what youve accused me of doing – that you need to qualify and limit it as ‘on the day’.
Best get your own story completely right before you question mine.
23 Nov 2009, 19:55 pm
@Storm outta hell:
Stefan didn’t make the side because he’s retiring next year and isn’t exactly an investment for 2011. Adi is currently an experiment at 12.
The dirtrackers were picked from our 3rd tier options intentionally. If you wait, the S14 next year will be the real proving ground for the WC possibles, not this years CC.
23 Nov 2009, 19:55 pm
@WakaNathan: Fresh is relative…we at the end of a long hard season…the NH punks are at the peak of their conditioning….lets leave the grocery store outta this…
23 Nov 2009, 19:58 pm
@justrugby:
We might have no able replacements for Tom, **** and Harry. But atleast those replacements didnt lose back-to-back games against Engl Club teams.
Take 2 players out of this Bok team – JdV and Frans scored 14pts between them in the 3pt-victory at Hamilton – and the good Ship Springbok looks far less ominous and struggling in chopping waters. Just as the ABs did earlier in the year without Dan Carter, a long list of injuries and a lengthy number of unavail star players.
2010 should be a fascinating season indeed. Lets see whether this overseas Bok players remain ‘un’ available.
23 Nov 2009, 20:02 pm
@David: Sure…but he was the in-form FB in the super 14…and logically you gotta play your best to beat the best…therefore we still playing with an achilles heel…and if it was not for injuries and suspensions during the B&L tour we’d probably still be stuttering along with a really bad bunch of selections
23 Nov 2009, 20:03 pm
@Storm outta hell:
Why do you say ‘we at the end of a long season’ ?
at the end of TriN’09, The Wallabies/ABs/Boks played exactly the same no of matches.
Subsequently, the Boks have 3 Test matches on NH tour. The Wallabies have 4. And the ABs have 5 plus BaaBaa’s.
Doesnt that make the Boks season the shortest ?
And, therefore, freshest ?
23 Nov 2009, 20:03 pm
@WakaNathan: Your arguement is once again completely illogical. We are talking about the 2009 seoson.
Yes, we have lost the past three times we played France. The previous two times were under a different coach a FEW years ago! How on earth can that have ANY relevance on the Boks achievements in 2009.
If we use your logic, which is: France beat SA in one game and you ask me: “Who is the best, SA or France?” I must then reply France or my story isn’t straight and I subscribe to double standards.
Answer this: Who is the best team: SA or NZ?
23 Nov 2009, 20:04 pm
@WakaNathan:
Half of those midweek guys were never considered replacements. They were players who PdeV wanted to get a better look at, because their provincial coaches gave them little game time.
If we wanted to take a complete backup side on tour there would have been far different choices.
23 Nov 2009, 20:09 pm
@David:
David, every squad of 35ish has players that the selectors ‘want to get a better look at’. The ABs have picked many NPC-level players who havent shone/played in S14. Theyve previously picked players like Toeava aged 18 as a ‘Special Project’. So have the Aussies, they have even plucked guys below at local clubs directly in to the Wallabies. Stop making out SA/Boks is some special case applying different methods, theyre not.
23 Nov 2009, 20:11 pm
@Storm outta hell:
A lot depends on the purpose of the tour from the coaches side.
Jake took weakened teams on tour but was eventually justified when we won the WC. Why not give PdeV the same latitude? If players like Bakkies, FdP etc. had been rested at home we would have seen far more of the best CC players included.
23 Nov 2009, 20:11 pm
@WakaNathan: That may be so…but the Bulls/Boks played in super 14 semi-finals and finals and Currie Cup semi-finals and finals and won both of them whilst the cream of the AB’s were putting their feet up
23 Nov 2009, 20:13 pm
@WakaNathan:
Yip, the differnce is that with the Boks we have been “band aiding ” for years and have become used to it, and we do it with great success.
This is unchartered waters for the AB’s and I don’t think they will react as well……… will be interesting though !!
23 Nov 2009, 20:15 pm
@WakaNathan:
If you consider the number of players they selected, then that is a different approach to the ones you mentioned. As far as I’m concerned, the midweek matches weren’t genuine Springbok sides, unless you want to be pedantic about it.
23 Nov 2009, 20:16 pm
@David: Agreed…but that’s my point exactly….our known talent should have been rested and the stand-out CC players should have been selected ie smokin’ Joe Pieterson
23 Nov 2009, 20:26 pm
@Storm outta hell:
I agree, but they weren’t rested and how would that have fitted in with your claim that we should play our best? The chances are we would have lost against France, possibly Italy, and Ireland. Then what would this blog have looked like?
The squad against France was the best of the experienced players available, and for whatever reason we lost. Thank God it wasn’t the WC QF.
23 Nov 2009, 20:34 pm
@WakaNathan: You WakaNathan, I am man enough to say that NZ is a great rugby nation. They have achieved much in world rugby, especially in 3N rugby. They have been the best team in the world since the start of professionalism. I am sure that they will continue to be a force to be reconed with and a team we can learn from.
I bet you, you won’t be able to JUST compliment the Boks on a great 2009 seoson (because they deserve it), without having to point to their weaknesses or any of their losses or try and boost the AB’s.
So, lets just stop this arguement. Because, until you are man enough to JUST compliment a fellow supporter of another team, your opinions, comments, arguements, views, etc means absolutely nothing!
23 Nov 2009, 20:47 pm
@David: Point made…but had we played the best of the CC ie combination WP/Cheetah scrum we would not have been embarassed by Tigers/Sarrascens/France…and we’d certainly give the Irish a go…too much talent was left behind…and it shows
23 Nov 2009, 20:56 pm
some breaking news….News conference at Loftus tomorrow….the new D O R will be announced , Heyneke Meyer.
23 Nov 2009, 20:59 pm
Next years super 14 will be a massive battle for fringe Bok WC spots…
23 Nov 2009, 21:00 pm
@grant10: Was it ever going to be anyone else?
23 Nov 2009, 21:02 pm
@Storm outta hell:
To be honest, I doubt whether any of the CC players would have made a difference against France. None of the props have any experience at test level.
Anyway, I’m off.
23 Nov 2009, 21:04 pm
@fsjakes: it is interesting …the new structures that is…
WP…Rassie…A Coetsee Head coach
Bulls…H M …F Ludeks head coach
Lions….D M …Hans Van Dyk…head coach…
Sharks and Cheetahs still the ‘old’ structure….
23 Nov 2009, 21:07 pm
@grant10: True, doesn’t Strauli kind of fullfil that role for Sharks?
I don’t think the Cheetahs have the money to have D O R.
23 Nov 2009, 21:08 pm
@grant10:
Hi Boet …….think Straueli is DOR at Sharks ??
23 Nov 2009, 21:12 pm
@justrugby: Hi boet
Not sure…i do know he oversees the recruitment and structures…so you probably right…..
Did you cruise home Sunday or was it close??
23 Nov 2009, 21:14 pm
@grant10: Who do you rate for S14 next year?
I think Bulls will once again be up there. Probably not as strong as this year.
I think Sharks is going to struggle. They haven’t looked at improving their attacking play. It’s going to bite them again next year.
Stormers is finally going to have the season they’ve been promising.
Cheethas will do better than before. Their squad has more depth, Naka in his third year. Might surprise a few people.
I can’t see the Lions do anything.
23 Nov 2009, 21:15 pm
@grant10:
Quite close, had to pull out all the stops on last 9 !!!
23 Nov 2009, 21:17 pm
@fsjakes: Bulls a gap year next year. They have earned it.
23 Nov 2009, 21:20 pm
@fsjakes:
warned you…don’t bother debating with the cop-out king.
waka will twist every argument so that he doesn’t have to admit that the all blacks were the boks ******* this season.
funny as hell to read and watch
23 Nov 2009, 21:23 pm
@fsjakes: Bulls have a dream draw….and will buy a bit still….great structures….need a tighthead….talk of Hayman going to Bulls….Gary Botha, Jaco VD Westhuise…..clever buys….Fatigue there biggest enemy….must be favorites….
Stormers…need a class 10….BJ and / or CJ would of helped….but they in with a shout….maybe top 4…
Lions….need some acquisitions…talk of J Smit perhaps going to 2 and captaining Lions…read We Talk Rugby….interesting. D Muir will sign a few players…of that i am sure….may just be the dark horses….but realistically a year too soon.
Cheetahs…will huff and puff and shock here and there but they struggle for some reason against the overseas teams??
Sharks….well Ludick and Alberts training with Sharks….as is G Mostert…..
They have the money, may also buy to reinforce the backs….but for me there achilles heel will be there front row….Smit and Jannie Du Plessis weak ….and Bissy is guaranteed the 2 spot…..Sharks are suspect….
Stormers and Bulls best bets i reckon….Bulls to retain it!
23 Nov 2009, 21:23 pm
@charo:
LOL………..he does appear to be the a master of evasion !!
23 Nov 2009, 21:25 pm
@justrugby: who was pushing you….junior?
23 Nov 2009, 21:26 pm
kiwis will never admit to F all!!
Why bother??
3 nil
23 Nov 2009, 21:27 pm
@charo: The guy is chop sometimes, but when ot really counts, just dissapears. Anyway, he knows we owned them and that we know he knows…
23 Nov 2009, 21:27 pm
@Kronung: Yep…Stormers to top the log and take the Currie Cup
23 Nov 2009, 21:28 pm
@Storm outta hell: Ummmm…WP to bring the CC back home
23 Nov 2009, 21:29 pm
@grant10:
Nah………..he had a shocker !!!
23 Nov 2009, 21:30 pm
@justrugby: Sat nites kill the Juniors!!
Well done…decent prizes??
23 Nov 2009, 21:30 pm
@fsjakes:
like i said, go read nzherald dot co dot nz.
it will open your eyes.
nz public are fed amazing propaganda every day about the all blacks.
sad, really, when a nation has bugger all else to look up to
23 Nov 2009, 21:32 pm
@justrugby:
yeah and meant to be some sort of investment guru.
would you trust your last $ with him?
23 Nov 2009, 21:33 pm
@grant10: Nope…the days of the Bulls winning by one or two points are over….Habana going to haunt ‘em…WP dominance in scrums emerging…it’s a new era
23 Nov 2009, 21:35 pm
@grant10:
No…….just blazer (ala the masters ) and trophy which will be handed out at our year end function on Frid night !!
23 Nov 2009, 21:36 pm
@Storm outta hell: from your lips to the rugby Gods ears!!
Hope so….
But those Bulls are clever…and with H Meyer back….?
Lets put it this way….if i had to bet my last R10….Bulls would get my vote….
but not my support….unless against the kiwi and aussie teams of course
23 Nov 2009, 21:36 pm
@charo:
That explains a lot !!
23 Nov 2009, 21:37 pm
@justrugby: still awesome…..cool my man!
23 Nov 2009, 21:38 pm
Bulls had some lucky breaks and Morne.
Won’t work two years in a row.
23 Nov 2009, 21:40 pm
@justrugby:
matchplay or individual medal/stableford?
23 Nov 2009, 21:42 pm
@Kronung: i thought they were very dominant actually….but thats next years debate…lets see squads first i reckon….
23 Nov 2009, 21:44 pm
@charo:
Individual Stableford !!!
23 Nov 2009, 21:46 pm
@grant10: More so in the run up than at the beginning.
Young Crusaders to come good I believe.
Of course the one or two floor-crossers can make a difference so as you say lets wait and see. Till next year then……
23 Nov 2009, 21:49 pm
gonna spend some time with the blonde…cheers gents…
Justrugby you biscuit!!
Outta here
23 Nov 2009, 21:53 pm
@justrugby:
to me that is more difficult to win than matchplay.
last year i won a foursomes matchplay cup (36 holes) at our club. we had one or two bad holes but you can put that behind you because a bad score is only a hole.
in medal(mainly) or stableford you carry the bad holes right to the end.
23 Nov 2009, 21:55 pm
@charo:
We have 3 cometitions throughout the year…….One is the winner of our annual tour, we go on a tour to George /Knysna every year (my son won this for the 2nd time ), we have a league format , each month on our monthly outing all scores are accumalated and carried forward and addeed to the next month and then the individual who has the most points for the year is crowned the league champ. Then we play our club champs over 27 holes.
All competitions are played on the individual stableford format.
All winners receive trophies,etc at our year end function which takes place this friday
23 Nov 2009, 21:57 pm
@charo:
Well done boet……mtchpaly is a fantastic format……….mind games come into play big time , I really enjoy it !!
23 Nov 2009, 22:03 pm
I think I also wanna be a DOR where I can I sign up. Must be the most cushy job on the planet DOR. Not fussy anywhere will do, Boland SWD Border any old rugby team even False Bay Rugby Club. Think I’m gonna give them a call in the morning. I also wanna be a DOR. year sounds just groovy.
23 Nov 2009, 22:05 pm
@skopskiet:
LOl… I’m sure you will do a great job !!
23 Nov 2009, 22:14 pm
@skopskiet:HA HA HA.. these DOR gigs come with performance contracts skop, can you handle that?
23 Nov 2009, 22:21 pm
@justrugby:
yes and foursomes matchplay even more complicated – rule is never say sorry to your partner and don’t expect a “sorry” back
23 Nov 2009, 22:22 pm
@justrugby:
sounds like a really organised golf society.
tours are the biz
23 Nov 2009, 22:24 pm
@Transformation:
skoppie is bullet proof – he can handle anything or anybody.
23 Nov 2009, 22:29 pm
DOR is a piece of cake man, where can I sign up, any old rugby club or franchise will do, hell I’ll even take the Bok DOR job, in fact I’d be just perfect for it, guide poor P. Div through all those rattle snake nests like a cake walk through the tulips.
23 Nov 2009, 22:29 pm
@charo: wassup charo? Man your nic, does it not have a derogatory connotation to indian people in this country?
So skoppie is die man van staal…
23 Nov 2009, 22:36 pm
@skopskiet: do you thinl you can stand up to those bulle balies when they forward a motion to relieve pdv of his duties prior to the 2011?
23 Nov 2009, 22:37 pm
howdy Charo matey how’s deepest darkest Africa treating you, sounds Ok to me. Golf on wednesdays and saturdays and all those groovy easy going people. Good thing I’m not over there cause you probably never get me back here again. Sommer land up eloping with a beautiful exquisite dark eyed beauty n disappear without a trace.
So much for my DOR aspirations huh?
23 Nov 2009, 22:41 pm
@Transformation:
actually i was asked that when i first appeared yonks ago.
truth is, i have hinnian mates who refer to me as witou and me to them as charo – durbs is a bit like that – people are relaxed with giving each other racial nicknames as long as you are comfortable with it.
i suppose if an indian oke came onto keo he might be upset initially but i figured not too many indians are into rugby anyway.
to me it identifies which team i support
23 Nov 2009, 22:42 pm
those bulletkie bal balletlies piece of putty in my hands man no sweat whatsoever, they crumble beneath the weight of my superior rationality. Ol Pdv would be safe as houses under my care. So where I sign up, c.mon Regan I’m officially putting my name in the hat for Bok DOR. just up my alley that cushy piece of cake job.
23 Nov 2009, 22:47 pm
@skopskiet:
skoppie, the people here are lovely and the ladies beautiful.
but, hell, are there frustrations.
i’m actually pretty pissed off at the moment (trying not to show it) because of the awful service delivery one has to put up with.
went to multichoice last week to get a pvr.
firstly they disconnected my existing decoder before the pvr was installed. next, they eventually install the pver 3 days late and now the f’cking thing doesn’t work!!!
talk about pulling one’s hair out.
but hey, if things worked perfectly here, they wouldn’t need expats like me.
look on the bright side of life.
23 Nov 2009, 23:01 pm
yeah Charo mate life wr never meant to be perfect if it were you can rest assured none of us would be here. Life is all about opposites every good there gotta be a bad. This is the way of life good n bad, hot n cold, rich n poor, pleasure n pain, light n dark, love n hate. Without all the opposites what would life on this planet be. Without gravity we all spin off into space. Right?
23 Nov 2009, 23:08 pm
@skopskiet:
the main saving grace is the ghanaian people that surround me – very caring and sympathetic.
problem is they experience more difficulties on a daily basis than i as an expat experience in a month.
they are great for bringing me back to earth.
23 Nov 2009, 23:17 pm
skoppie,
how is the property market in your end of the peninsular?
am thinking about taking early retirement and moving back there.
my preference is kommetjie – want to get a small boat and get into crayfishing again
23 Nov 2009, 23:19 pm
yes its always refreshing and sobering to see others with so much humility and forbearance in spite of their daily difficulties they have to bear and they somehow manage to smile through it all while we curse at the first sign of hardship. Wonder how many of us appreciate our lot really. Could be a whole lot worse.
23 Nov 2009, 23:26 pm
sounds good Charo prices been down for awhile I would reckon now not a bad time to invest though one can’t know for sure how future going to turn out. Still a buyers market out here Kommetjie is nice and quiet I guess anything between 1.5 bar up to maybe 5 bar going levels. Grant would be better equipped to inform you about the market trend but prices been under pressure for awhile so maybe now is good time to invest I reckon. You look around could even probably get a good bargain maybe some folks are desperate to sell.
23 Nov 2009, 23:30 pm
@charo:
I have worked in war torn countries for three years now and I can tell you, the have nots suddenly forget what a conscience is when they see dollar signs. We’re there to help them but they could not give a continental..money talks and the UN is just an obstacle to any get rich quick scheme.
Ghana like many other African countries could be so wealthy if their government ran the country correctly. I have vokol sympathy.
23 Nov 2009, 23:40 pm
@skopskiet:
cheers skoppie – looking at about 2 bar for a smallish cottage.
@Predawn:
graft and power are the driving forces in africa – but the ordinary people are left with nothing.
but things are changing. when i first started in west africa in the late 90′s, the people here didn’t question the ruling party – they blindly believed all the slogans.
now, they are more sceptical and question more.
a bit like good old rsa
23 Nov 2009, 23:44 pm
ok I keep an eye out for something round there. I got a daughter staying in Kommetjie she may know something or someone in the know.
23 Nov 2009, 23:57 pm
no rush skoppie, am stuck here so can’t do a lot about buying another property until i’m in the area.
might make a visit first half of next year to get a feel for the area.
am sure it’s grown since my days of surfing outers.
24 Nov 2009, 01:06 am
@Ratel Brussow (MSIUR): All Blacks have never lost to the Scots or the Irish I really wonder how the Boks or Wallabies felt when they lost those respective games to these countries shameful, it wont be long I guess when an All Black will suffer this lost boy I would hate to be that All Black.
24 Nov 2009, 01:41 am
@charo:
you really do speak the most incredible amount of poop. Atleast FSJakes is trying to debate issues, you seem to struggle putting sentences together without including some teenage angst drivvel. I dunno, maybe you are.
@fsjakes:
The point was not about whether NZ should bow to whom but, of much more interest, the willingness with which to apply double-standards to suit your own purposes.
Last year all we heard was that the TriN ‘didnt matte’r because it was only what a team did at the RWC that mattered. How coincidental that this fitted perfectly with the Boks achievements at the time and diminished those of the TriN Champion and glossed over the TriN Wooden Spoon.
We also heard that World Rankings meant nothing. That was because ‘only Silverware counted’ with reference, again, back to RWC. Again, how coincidental that this suited the Boks status at the time and diminished those of the World no1.
Well suddenly in 2009 ALOT more interest and respect when the Boks take the TriN and then, momentarily, hold the no1 spot.
And yet then the all-conquering Boks hit a speedbump in the NH and suddenly, the goal posts are shifting again to suit your own purposes, the application of those same double-standards. The stubborn refusal to acknowledge the loss to France as anything other than ‘better on the day’ on 1 hand but desperate for the ABs to be recognised as the Boks inferiors on the other.
If youd actually been paying attention prior to today, you would already have seen my repeated praise of the Boks performance before and after every SA vs NZ match (ignore Charo, he’s an imbecile). Furthermore I have already advocated that France are potentially the best team in 2009 whether or not they have the silverware and/or the ranking to prove it. Certainly if they beat ABs in Marseille that would be enough for me.
But as has been proven here time and time again, this never seems to be enough for those not willing to see the woods for the trees on a landscape where the goalposts are always, always, shifting. Funnily enough, the outcome is always the same too.
24 Nov 2009, 01:46 am
@grant10:
So, G10, do you admit that France are currently the Boks superiors ?
24 Nov 2009, 02:16 am
@WakaNathan: Agapanthus. All that matters is we beat you 3 x this year.
I could give a fk about anything else.
And then we start again in 2010.
You are wrong about Charo. Good bloke.
24 Nov 2009, 03:13 am
@WakaNathan:
So wakadoos, do you agree the AB’s are this season Boks *******?
24 Nov 2009, 03:49 am
WAKA and FSJAKES….i’ll settle your argument for you. A team is judged as being the best because of sheer consistency. This year the most consistent team in terms of wins is South Africa….fullstop. Tiger Woods is the best golfer because of consistency, even if he loses a few random tournaments in Timbuktu, that doesn’t make the lucky amateur that beat him a better player. Rodger Federer is the best even if some no-name teenager may have his number a couple of games a year….CONSISTENCY IN WINNING AGAINST THE BEST…NZ have not had that this year and therefore have had a **** season regardless of if they think a few poor wins over england and italy paper over the cracks. We played the BEST of the grand slam teams and won, beat NZ 3-0, BEAT AUS 2-1…thats what the record books will say for 2009. Not, “failed to beat france in a one off while it took NZ 2 attempts to do it in their own backyard”
WAKA is desperate, and let him be…i would be if i had to support the drivel i saw from NZ this year. We should let go of our defensive attitude guys, it reeks of insecurity…this has been our year, so when guys like WAKA try play it down just laugh in their face and agree with them coz deep down they know what the score is.
24 Nov 2009, 03:52 am
@WakaNathan: Head to Head France have been more superior to The Boks this year (1-0)….and so using that logic i’m sure you’ll happily agree that the boks have been FAR superior to NZ….3-0
24 Nov 2009, 14:20 pm
@SodaJoe:
Fair enough. But I dont think thats ‘all that counts’, slightly disengenuous, Bok fans are prouder than that.
What I do find is this revolving policy of what really counts.
Last year when ABs beat Boks 2-1, all that ‘counted’ was the RWC.
The TriN didnt count. Apparently. But this year, it counts.
Last year and before, a World no1 Ranking didnt count. This year it counts.
Now the no1 Ranking goes, and all of a sudden its 3-0 ‘that counts’.
Im often accused of not giving the Boks any deserved credit. Which is wrong, I have after every single TriN match. But why I find that accusation so extraordinary, is that the afforementioned shifting-goalposts just confirms that it is Bok fans who simply cant bring themselves to give credit to the opposition.
24 Nov 2009, 14:22 pm
@SodaJoe:
Im pleased for you and Charo. But I tend to show as much respect as I am shown. Which in his case is Zero.
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