Deans in no danger of axe
23 Nov 2009
Australian Rugby Union chief executive John O’Neill says that coach Robbie Deans’s job is safe despite a season of poor results.
The Wallabies were woeful in their 9-8 defeat to Scotland at Murrayfield on Saturday, and Deans has an ordinary record of just 14 victories and a draw from 27 Tests since taking over last year. Under his leadership they have won just two of their last 10 Tests, including winning just one match in the Tri-Nations.
O’Neill said he was ‘devastated’ by the loss, but he refuted the suggestion that Deans, who is contracted until after the 2011 World Cup, was in danger of losing his job.
‘We have every confidence in Robbie Deans being the right coach for us,’ O’Neill told the Sydney Morning Herald.
O’Neill explained that there would be a review of the season with Deans and leading officials from the ARU after their year-end tour, but stressed that it wouldn’t be an attack on the coach.
‘The results are clearly disappointing and not acceptable,” O’Neill said. ‘We have two more games to go on the tour and rest assured we will be reviewing every aspect of this tour. [High Performance manager] David Nucifora, myself, Robbie Deans and the ARU board will have a good, hard look at what is going wrong.
‘It will be an objective, balanced assessment of the pros and cons of this entire season. It will take in all of the Test matches starting from June and finish off with this tour. ‘It is crucial that we are really confrontational with every aspect of “Team Wallaby”.’
Defeat in the midweek fixture against Cardiff on Tuesday is sure to heap additional pressure on Deans. However, he has named a young but competent side to face the Blues.
Australia - 15 James O’Connor, 14 Lachie Turner, 13 Ryan Cross, 12 Tyrone Smith, 11 Kurtley Beale, 10 Matt Toomua, 9 Luke Burgess, 8 Richard Brown, 7 Matt Hodgson, 6 Mitchell Chapman, 5 Dean Mumm (c), 4 Dave Dennis, 3 Sekope Kepu, 2 Tatafu Polota-Nau, 1 Pek Cowan.
Subs: 16 Salesi Ma’afu, 17 Matt Dunning, 18 Mark Chisholm, 19 George Smith, 20 Richard Kingi, 21 Quade Cooper, 22 Luke Morahan.
189 Comments
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23 Nov 2009, 16:54 pm
@Dawn:
one man’s kilt is another man’s skirt…
23 Nov 2009, 17:00 pm
@gunther:
Try telling that to my bonny front row.
23 Nov 2009, 17:01 pm
@Nils: you are right nils.
i apologise to all the level headed nz fans.
i guess i just got a little mad when the GH triumvirate had nothing to say other than “the boks are boring and the rules must change”
and then some kiwi fans gave us the same disrespect shown by the BIL’s media contingent.
its all banter anyway man, no offence intended.
the same line of reasoning does not apply with wind up merchants like waka/blackpanther you understand i am sure
23 Nov 2009, 17:03 pm
@fsjakes:
Apparently another round of fixtures tells us that THAT is not IT, yet.
The ABs have not, for example, lost to Australia in 2009. Nor have they lost to Ireland.
In this or any other year in existence.
The fact remains that despite your churlish attempts to windowbox an entire season within a wrapping barely big enough for discarded chewing-gum, the 2009 season has not yet been complete. Much like the Boks performance throughout the year, their 1st-Half glories have been followed by a rather ordinary, nay shambolic, inglorious-bas’**** of a 2nd-Half whilst the chasing pack accelerate passed and on in to the horizon.
23 Nov 2009, 17:20 pm
And that is why I know that you hurt more than me!
We can go back and forth and you can say whatever you want. The boks and the AB’s are both great rugby nations. But in 2009, whether we loose to Ireland and u beat Fransce or not, we were the better team this year. I’m not saying the AB’s are bad or pathetic or that the Boks are a finished product. I’m just saying we had a good year, a better year than NZ and Aus.
So, just get over yourself.
23 Nov 2009, 17:24 pm
@rangerman: I can assure you that I am equally pissed off about tinkering with the rules of the game and whingeing about “boring rugby” whoever says it and whoever it is directed against.
23 Nov 2009, 17:26 pm
@Nils: I have to thank u for your level headedness and respect u have shown to SA rugby and supporters. It’s be cause of people like u that I will always support the Blacks when they play other teams. But, I have to say that its hard to do with other NZ supporters always trying to stir things up on this site.
23 Nov 2009, 17:28 pm
@fsjakes: Well, we all have them. I am biased, too, make no mistake, and hope we’ll put things right next year.
23 Nov 2009, 17:30 pm
Funny thing is, I have a feeling you will.
23 Nov 2009, 17:35 pm
@fsjakes: It remains to be seen. One thing for me is sure, ABs will not as bad as they were. Whether Boks will remain as good as they are, we’ll see.
23 Nov 2009, 17:50 pm
@Nils: I think alot depends on next year’s S14. The Boks tend to do well in years when one or two of their S14 teams are very competitave. I also think that alot depends on whether PdV will stop with his experimentations of Smit and Pienaar. And ofcourse, injuries. I think we are a due a season of injuries. It’s already strarted.
I agree, the Blacks wount be as bad. I hope Conrad Smith stays injury free. I rate him, the backline looks good with him there. Delany is also a better 2nd choice than Donald. So yes, you guys will def be better next year.
I am struggling to see where Aus is going to improve. Will be good to see a three horse race for 3N for a change. Always one team that hits a downer.
23 Nov 2009, 17:51 pm
@fsjakes:
Yep, that Tackler sure is a nuisance.
He’s a Safa, dont you know.
23 Nov 2009, 17:57 pm
@WakaNathan: WakaNathan, please answer these two questions:
If you reduce the impressive season (B&I Lions and 3N) the Boks had to “a wrapping barely big enough for discarded chewing-gum”, was there ever a season in which the All Blacks achieved more?
Secondly, if you describe the Bok’s performance this year as “ordinary, nay shambolic, inglorious-bas’****”, how would you describe the AB’s performances sofar?
Thirdly, do subscribe to the generalised NZ view that the 3N doesn’t mean anything, nor does the World Cup? That the only cup that really matters in the Bledisloe Cup?
23 Nov 2009, 17:58 pm
Sorry, the third one came up as I typed.
23 Nov 2009, 18:13 pm
@fsjakes:
They think winning the WC can also be wrapped in a chewing gum wrapper !!
I think you right, they only view the Bledsiloe Cup as relevant……
by the way that has got to be the silliest and ugliest looking trophy in world rugby !!!
23 Nov 2009, 18:20 pm
@fsjakes: Why do you think it is “generalised NZ view”?
IMHO, WC and 3N mean very very much down there. That’s why WC failures hurt and 3N records are source of a huge pride.
I suppose, it is just different from a view, that WC is THE ONLY thing that matters and sod everything else. It is convenient weapon aimed at one particular team. You know, which one.
Such banner you can see here now and then, especially when it concerns England, for example: +/- ***** for 3.9 years and usually punching above their weight in the remaining 0.1 (ok, I am exaggerating a bit here but you understand the point). And for all this ***** is one description “building for xxxx WC”. For me, let’s call ***** a *****, not “building for”.
23 Nov 2009, 18:23 pm
@fsjakes:
1. The Boks are leaping from the rafters after winning 1 x TriN in 2009.
The Blacks had just come off 4 x consecutive TriNs.
Prior to the TriN, the Boks played the Lions whilst NZ played France. Its too hard to say which pre-TriN Series was the hardest given that the Boks beat the Lions but couldnt beat France. Atleast NZ beat France in the 2nd/Final Test.
In the year that the ABs beat the Lions 3-0 whilst scoring 100pts, they also took the TriN (2005). They also ended the season ranked World no1. So, yes, to answer your Ques – the ABs have had a season when they achieved more than the Boks in 2009.
2. The ABs season has been a poor one by their standards. But there is more to a sandwich than just the ham and cheese in the middle, you still have 2 slices of bread with which to contend.
I would say that if NZ draw with France in NZ 1-1; beat France in France (?); have their line, uncrossed, for 2 consecutive NH tours; and end it as World no1, then it would be graded no more than a ‘B – could do better’.
But the NZ graph denoting Results/Performance has shown an increasing yield throught the 2009 season whereas others may have 1 too many spikes with which to *pop* their bubble.
3. I suscribe to the notion that every game matters. However, can you answer me this:-
Ques – did you suscribe to the view, prior to winning the 2009 TriN, that only the RWC mattered ?
The Answer is relevant to both my Ques and yours.
23 Nov 2009, 18:28 pm
@WakaNathan: Maybe…but if the Boks win the 2011 world cup the AB’s will never catch up
23 Nov 2009, 18:29 pm
@Nils: No, I don’t really. I’m just taking a jab at WakaNathan.
23 Nov 2009, 18:34 pm
@fsjakes: Waka has a valid point. For many blokes here for a long time it was only WC who mattered – which, by a pure coincidence
was already in their trophy cabinet. Now 3N trophy matters very much, too – and again, after locking it safely.
23 Nov 2009, 18:35 pm
@Nils: As you can see from his posts today, unlike you, he just can’t be a man and own up that the Boks had a good season and is a good team.
23 Nov 2009, 18:41 pm
@fsjakes: …and the Bulls had a GREAT season and thrashed the best New Zealand had on offer…
23 Nov 2009, 18:41 pm
@fsjakes: Who knows? As for me, this year was the best for South Africa in recent memory surpassing even 1998, while 2004 is nothing comparing to this. 3-0 vs NZ in one year is a sign of a very very good team.
23 Nov 2009, 18:44 pm
@Storm outta hell: Yes and no. Yes – great season, no – thrashed Crusaders? No, you thrashed Chiefs and hardly more than 2-3 chieftains would make best possible ABs squad, I guess.
Do not get me wrong, Bulls were great. They would never do such a shameful thumping of Saders though. Beat them – yes, thump them – never.
23 Nov 2009, 18:45 pm
@WakaNathan: On your first answer, rugby is to complicated to compare your our B & I Lions win with ours. Different teams, coaches, conditions, etc. You missed my point though, I would never reduce a great All Black seoson, like 2005, to the insult you reduced the Boks season too. Be man, and say well-done for 2009!
On your second answer, you actually didn’t answer my questio, You described the Bok’s performances this year as “ordinary, nay shambolic, inglorious-bas’****”. So, give me three discriptive words on how you would describe the AB’s performances this year?
Lastly, I agree with you that every test matters. When it comes to the 3N the AB’s have been the best and most consistend. Now, be a man, and say: “Well-done Bokke on a great 2009.”
23 Nov 2009, 18:48 pm
@fsjakes:
and where exactly did I say that ?
23 Nov 2009, 18:51 pm
@Nils: Ya,yah…but “saders never made it to the finals…so therefore Chiefs were the best team fielded by New Zealand
23 Nov 2009, 18:54 pm
@Storm outta hell: Check mate!!
23 Nov 2009, 18:56 pm
@fsjakes:
1. you seem to keep repeating that I have said ‘Boks arent a good team’ and that I have “insulted” them.
Where ?
I merely pointed out that:-
(a) Boks were excellent in 1stH of matches throughout the Year, yet were not in 2ndH of matches.
The anology is with their season – better at the start than at the end (1stH / 2ndH)
2. I did answer your Ques, you want 3 words ? – “could” “do” and “better”.
au contraire, you didnt ask my Ques @
3. Before TriN’09, did you suscribe to the view, prior to winning the 2009 TriN, that only the RWC mattered ?
because on a fairly vague poll conducted over the entire Keo history, the vast majority inexplicably answered ‘Yes’. Now, I wonder why that was….
23 Nov 2009, 18:58 pm
@WakaNathan: What?
23 Nov 2009, 19:00 pm
@Storm outta hell:
I do recall that of the 4 teams that made it to the S14 Finals, that the sole SA contender was the Bulls. And that they won. Superbly too.
However, there were 3 Kiwi teams still in contention. And this in the same year that Safas b*tched and complained that they deserved 1 more team.
23 Nov 2009, 19:02 pm
@WakaNathan: You are arguing aournd the main issue. So, I will ask it to you simply:
Do you think that the Boks had a good a season and achieved more that the AB’s in 2009?
23 Nov 2009, 19:07 pm
@WakaNathan: Dude…real thinking Saffers have long realised that we don’t deserve another team…in fact one team less would strengthen SA rugga…that is once again joining the Lions and Cheetahs whom are basically bonus point teams propping up the log…but the bleeding hearts just won’t let go…you gotta live here to appreciate the circus…yet despite the handicaps the Boks are still performing…try and put yourself in our shoes and imagine leaving M’caw at home ’cause a player of colour plays ahead of him because of his race….you ain’t got a clue
23 Nov 2009, 19:14 pm
@Storm outta hell: I think all the guys in the 1st team deserve their places.
I am not referring to the dirt tracker experiments, most of whom are a joke.
23 Nov 2009, 19:15 pm
@fsjakes:
Im not arguing around the issue, Ive answered specific ques’s precisely. You on the other hand refuse to answer Ques’s at your own discretion.
The Boks beat the Lions 2-1, after previously losing 1-2.
The Boks won the TriN, after 3-consecutive TriN Wooden Spoons.
So in terms of achievements, by the Boks standards, they have had an exceptional Year. Especially if the Year started on June 13th and ended on September 12th.
Perhaps that is the Sth African equivalent of Chinese New Year ?
In comparison
ABs drew 1-1 with France
ABs came 2nd in TriN after 4 consecutive titles.
Are unbeaten in NH, not conceding 1 Try.
Could end 2009 as World no1.
So, youre right, by AB standards that is pretty p*ss poor.
Have we answered your Ques’s yet ? and when will you answer mine ?
23 Nov 2009, 19:23 pm
@Kronung: The guys have done well…but how many times did Ricky have to f-up till he was dropped….selections have cost us dearly…both black and white….had we played our in form CC players we should not have lost a match on this EOYT….I find that unacceptable….now Waka brands us losers and he’s absolutely right…but we are handicapped by selections whilst GH is free to pick his best combinations…all in the name of transformation.
23 Nov 2009, 19:25 pm
@fsjakes: To add to that question.
Do you think that your victory over France (although you played them in NZ, had two games against them and a third coming) and our inability to beat France this year in a once-off test, makes NZ the better team this year?
I agree that SA’s season is much like their performances during games. They won most their games in the first half and took their foot of the pedal. Much like the season, they won the major games that made their season a success already and now aren’t playing to their full potentail.
Would you agree that the same goes for NZ? Flashes of brilliance and good play throughout the game that coincides with moments of mere mediocrity? Moments with great wins, but mostly below-par performances (that incledes Wales and England).
I did answer your question. Read my post again. Like you I believe that every match is important.
23 Nov 2009, 19:25 pm
fsjakes, you are wasting your time with waka – the cop out champion of keo.
what you should rather do is peruse the sports sections of nzherald and read the columns.
it will give you a better idea of the mindset of the average all black supporter.
nowhere else in the world will you read such fawning over a sports team – cringeworthiness of note.
23 Nov 2009, 19:26 pm
@Storm outta hell:
Firstly, if you believed that SA didnt deserve 1 or more 2 teams than their equal-SANZAR partners, then you appear to be in the Keo-minority.
G10 will roll out a list of gripes starting with something along the line of ‘kissing cousins’. Whatever.
Secondly, I dont go along with this woe-betide-us-poor-Quota-enforced-Safas mentality. Fact remains that SA has 4-5 senior registered players to every 1 Kiwi. Furthermore, not everyone agrees that Quotas (if indeed they do exist) is a hindrance. In fact, it seems to me that without those same Quotas, SA Rugby have for entire generations hindered an incredibly deep pool of previously-untapped talent. On this tour alone, I have seen Earl Rose play 2 strong games despite 1-2 years of disgraceful ‘token’ calls, whereas I have seen other accepted ‘future Bok stars’ wilt in the face of UK Club teams without firing so much as a pop-gun. And I wonder if Ashley Johnson would have previously been exposed to enough top rugby that would allow him to prove he has genuine talent for the top level.
23 Nov 2009, 19:29 pm
@fsjakes:
Answer me this then:-
Who is the better team – Boks or France ?
23 Nov 2009, 19:29 pm
@WakaNathan: There was a time when AB’s looked at the trophy cabinet to judge their year, nothing else.
Statistical gymnastics are just that, a lifeline to supporters in denial.
All that counts is who is buying the Brasso at the moment……
23 Nov 2009, 19:35 pm
@WakaNathan: Who is polishing the silverware this year? France or South Africa or Kiwi’s for that matter.
Or are you suggesting that to be the best you can never lose?
23 Nov 2009, 19:36 pm
@WakaNathan: WakaNathan, I am not arguing that the AB’s are a bad team or that their achievements are not great. Even better than that of South Africa, especially in the professionlan era.
But, why do you find it so difficult to just say “Well-done” and leave it. Why do you always have to have an “my dad is bigger than your dad” aittitude?
Id you want to be truely honest, the Blacks haven’t exaclty set the stage a light on their Europene tour. Their voctories over Wales and England wasn’t exactly fantastic. They did not play flawless rugby and ran them off their feet. And, you haven’t played France in France yet.
I don’t undetstand. I ask you a question and you answer it “I believe every match in important”. You ask me a similar question and I say: “I agree with you, every match is important”. Yet, in my case I’m not answering your question according to you.
Stop trying to be so super intellectual. Just be real and give credit where it is due (without a hint of sarcasm).
23 Nov 2009, 19:38 pm
@WakaNathan: Oh Boy…our best FB in the Super 14 doesn’t make the squad(Stefan Terreblanche)…Ricky Januarie gets picked at SH but comes off the bench(as late as possible) for the Stormers….and did you see the try the Italians scored cutting thru’ a hapless Adi Jacobs on Saturday….I could go on for hours…but the fact of the matter is we have far better players at home…do yourself a favour and watch the CC…and get educated…we beat u with a handicapped team…that’s what makes us so good…!!!
23 Nov 2009, 19:39 pm
@Kronung:
Is that your final answer ?
Doh !
you havent given 1 yet…….
who is better, France or Boks ?
23 Nov 2009, 19:41 pm
@WakaNathan: Right now France are fresher…but woe betide them when the fans trash their National anthen on a cold day in Kimberley…revenge will be swift and sweet..!!
23 Nov 2009, 19:42 pm
@fsjakes:
You keep avoiding the Ques’s, repeatedly. Which is what you accused me of doing.
1. did you suscribe to ‘only RWCs matter’ last year ?
2. who is currently the better team, France or Boks ?
23 Nov 2009, 19:42 pm
@WakaNathan: We played a once-off test against France in France. They won that test fair and square. They were the better team on the day.
The arguement in your question is stupid. It silly.
We played the AB’s three times: 3 – 0
Australia 3 times: 2 – 1
Lions 3 times: 2 – 1
To now argue that because we lost to France in a once-off test and you (if all goes right) would have beaten France 2 – 1, therefore the AB’s has a better season.
You honestly can’t be that bad a looser or so incapable of just letting another team be the best for once in a while.
23 Nov 2009, 19:43 pm
@Storm outta hell:
I didnt ask “who is fresher ?”
I said “who is better ?”.
fresher ? we’re not buying fruit’n'veg here y’know. They are simple Ques’s.
23 Nov 2009, 19:45 pm
@WakaNathan: This is silly, I haven’t met a more one-eyed person who is full of himself than you.
Please go read the threat again. I answered both questions.
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