Jones speaks out
25 Nov 2009
Eddie Jones explains why he thinks the Wallabies are struggling under head coach Robbie Deans.
In an interview with Sky Sports Radio, Jones said Deans is forcing a game plan that doesn’t gel well with the Wallabies because it is a ‘New Zealand style of rugby’.
‘I think we’ve lost that instinctive way we play, and we stand wide and we’re lateral and we play like a New Zealand side,’ said the former Wallabies coach. ‘Robbie has a way of coaching, and I think he’s a very successful coach, but I don’t think his style of attack suits the Australian players and that’s something he’s going to learn over the next period of time.
‘You’ve got to learn instinct. Whilst some players are born naturally with it – the Giteaus and the Carters – the others, you’ve got to coach into it and it’s the structure you put around them to allow them to play.’
Jones also thought Deans’ attacking game plan was not ideal in the modern game.
‘It’s about the way the game is at the moment. Most sides play rugby league defence, that’s quite obvious, and you can’t play an old-style rugby union attack where you stand deep and you stand wide and you expect to beat them on the outside.’
While critical of Deans’ coaching methods, Jones believes with a few adjustments, Deans can still become a success with the Wallabies.
‘I think Deans is a very good coach. He does need to change his methods a little bit, the Australian players are different to New Zealand players. New Zealand players have generally been the best in world rugby because they have been physically stronger and faster than anyone else,’ he said.
‘Australian sides traditionally, while physically we go OK, our point of difference has been that we’ve been tactically and strategically a little better than other teams. I think at the moment we’ve lost that a little bit.
‘I think Robbie can learn that. Some good things have happened and there’s no reason to change the coach but I think he does need some help.’
70 Comments
25 Nov 2009, 07:22 am
The wise man talks. I see Brendon Venter is doing a better sob at Saracens than him.
25 Nov 2009, 07:27 am
Would be great if the Boks brought him in again as a technical adviser. He’s not the greatest man-manager which, as a head coach, is an essential characteristic but his technical knowledge is excellent. Our backline play improved immeasurably when he came on board.
25 Nov 2009, 07:44 am
@WestAussieBok: 100% – Jones got the best out of the Bok backline in recent time – still think it might of been because FS was at first centre
25 Nov 2009, 07:45 am
yeah, this aussie team has somehow lost the ‘feel’ of an Aussie team…i agree with E J …
Bok back line play has been a bit sterile at times, with Muir off to DOR of Lions \there is a gap soon i reckon.
25 Nov 2009, 07:48 am
On way down 123 steps to Clifton beach with my dog this morning, i almost got taken out by about 10 Stormers who were sprinting up the stairs!!
Early season training, guys look in great shape and so friendly as well…..JD Moller at the back LOL…
Duvenhage flying in front with Peter Grant in pursuit….jeez,now i know how it feels to have the Stormers team charging down on you!!
25 Nov 2009, 07:49 am
eddie jones can go to hell, him & his gatgabba jake white are always making comments about other coaches, well here is the ******* reality check boys, deans, pdv, gatland, henry, lievremont, kidney, johnson etc all have international coaching jobs while you two are scrounging around in japan & being mercenaries “consulting”! Eddie likes to act like he is a mr know-it-all!
25 Nov 2009, 07:50 am
@grant10: Just make sure they dont slip on any dog **** ….. Dont want to be the cause of unwarranted injuries Grant – LOL
25 Nov 2009, 07:53 am
@stew: LOL….no….packets at the ready….dog trained…only does the deed on the beach!!
F.Louw kakked himself…i reckon he is scared of dogs!
25 Nov 2009, 07:55 am
@grant10: LOL – cause he has been bitten before !!!!!
25 Nov 2009, 07:56 am
@grant10: What dog do you have Grant?
25 Nov 2009, 08:11 am
too true but eddie should offer him insights and help him with the places he may be lacking share his knowledge if deans want to listen
25 Nov 2009, 08:12 am
@grant10:
No wonder they are always complaining of player fatigue.
25 Nov 2009, 08:18 am
@Sharksgirl: Golden Retriever. My girlfriends dog….i live a stones throw from Clifton 2 nd beach….so spend a half hour in the morning with him there….
Later in day have to walk the 1.5km to Glen Beach because beaches packed and no doga allowed…Glen beach less hectic…
25 Nov 2009, 08:19 am
@Dawn: LOL…well the dog assisted F Louw….he upped the ante and sprinted past the dog!!
Bangbroek!
25 Nov 2009, 08:24 am
@grant10: Beautiful! You right Bangbroek – How could Low be scared of a Retriever! One of the more placid dogs, if far too intelligent for me! I like the dozy dogs, they need less entertainment fits in more with my fitness levels
Although if I lived close to a beach it would be different for me!
I have a boerbull cross Bull Mastiff, she looks more like the Mastiff and she is huge (smaller than a Boerbull) when we go for walks every one gives us a wide berth, but they are more in danger of being slobbered to death than being bitten
25 Nov 2009, 08:29 am
Good to see the Stormers being so early prepared , Kitch Christie said in 95 that we will win the WC because we the fittest team , it was true. The morning of the opening game Francious Pienaar took the team for the traditional run in Walmer Estate where they were based (Holiday Inn) , I was standing in the street watching them run up the hill in awe. They were super fit !!
PS – ok I admit I was in awe because it was the boks and totally unexpected to see my hero’s run in the street in front of my doorstep but still looking back I remember now how fit they were
25 Nov 2009, 08:34 am
@Sharksgirl: Yes….Retriever is helleva clever….and ultra placid….this mutt of my girlfriends is well trained and being close to the beach in great shape as he is run and exercised a lot. IHe and i have our moments, but all in all i enjoy his company as i work from a home office. The blonde has a hectic job in politics so its the dog and i mostly from about 7 30 am to 18hoo….
I enjoy the Bull Mastiffs, Boerboels and Rottweilers, a couple of fantastic Boerboels on the beach, massive but friendly….and slow, so cant catch the Retriever!!
Not really a ‘pet’person but have to admit the Retriever has got under my skin…
25 Nov 2009, 08:52 am
@sparticus: ja….the conditioning is superb….JD Moller a prop but no fat ,etc….times have changed
25 Nov 2009, 08:58 am
Giteau’s always been a weak goal-kicker.
He should be playing 12 and not 10.
Far more potent carving through defenses than being the link man.
Deans is turning a cold shoulder to senior players.
George Smith is the latest who seems to be on the skids in favour of young Pocock.
Tuqiri, Waugh… and Mortlock also seems to be on his way out.
25 Nov 2009, 08:59 am
@sparticus:
As fit as January and JPietersen?
25 Nov 2009, 09:05 am
I can list up to 50 players in the Stormers extended squad.
It’s going to be tough for them to wittle it down to 30-36 players.
Especially in the backs.
Habana, Naqelevuki, Koster, Aplon, Juries, Engelbrecht…
Newman, Bosch, Fourie, De Jongh, Welsh, Des Fountain…
Who makes the cut?
Who doesn’t?
25 Nov 2009, 09:12 am
6. Transformation
Chill out man – these guys are two of the most successful coaches in world rugby!
Give them their due mate, a least they can speak from experience. What about you, same old, same old!
25 Nov 2009, 09:12 am
@puff: Yes I hope that they don’t end up discarding the players they’ve just bought to be drafted by the other teams…
25 Nov 2009, 09:37 am
I think Eddie is fudging the lines a bit here… His points about modern rugby may be valid but I don’t think that is the problem with the Dean’s Wallabies…
IMO… the problem is with the psyche of Austrailan rugby… Dean’s is used to coaching guys who love rugby and know from school level that if they’re not good enough or there’re plenty of guys to take their place. Therefore there are fewer primadonnas in NZ rugby.
In Australia on the other hand (Darren) rugby players mostly come from privileged backgrounds where there are fewer players from school level and the coaches don’t necessarily have anyone to replace a petulant player or a player that doesn’t listen or a player who is not that good… so the Aussie coaches have to work with, in and around that culture… but they come from the same culture and therefore it “works” for them…
Now Deans comes along and insists on discipline and not being afraid to drop a player who does not fall in line… The players know there is no one else at national level and therefore don’t take the playing for the jersey concept as seriously as the ABs and the Boks… Both country’s players will pretty much do and put up with ANYTHING to earn the jersey… The Aussie players won’t… They operate from a perspective of entitlement… the ABs and Boks operate from perspective of if they don’t put it all on the line EVERY TIME and produce the goods EVERY TIME there are players ready and willing to step up into their jerseys…
in short there is more desperation (for want of a better word) in SA and NZ to play in the jersey than there is in Aus…
25 Nov 2009, 09:40 am
@ufo:
the same thing has happened with the Force and John Mitchell..
25 Nov 2009, 09:41 am
Moller, Blaauw, Harris, Kritzinger, De Neully Rice, Whitehead, Smith, Smith
Liebenberg, Fourie, Shimange, Ferreira
Fondse, Steenkamp, Bekker, Van Zyl, Lobberts, Muller, Earle
Burger, Myburgh, Britz
Louw, Jordaan
Vermeulen, Louw
Januarie, Duvenhage, Conradie, Hoffman
De Waal, Grant, Cronje
Habana, Naqelevuki, Engelbrecht
Newman, Bosch
Fourie, De Jongh, Welsh, Des Fountain
Koster, Aplon, Juries
Jantjes, Pieterson, Groepes, Bax
25 Nov 2009, 09:47 am
@Sharksgirl:
Retrievers and Spaniels are responsible for biting more people than any other breeds…
amazing… but true…
25 Nov 2009, 09:50 am
@ufo: Spaniels i understand….but Retrievers??
WOW!
25 Nov 2009, 09:55 am
@Hondo: Dont think the guys today are as fit as the 95 Boks.
25 Nov 2009, 09:56 am
@ufo: :Shock: I really didn’t know that! Gosh I know that Spaniels have bad reputations, but retrievers look so placid!
25 Nov 2009, 10:03 am
@grant10:
Hey Grant… It’s a numbers game… It’s only because they are two of the most popular breeds on the planet…
25 Nov 2009, 10:11 am
let me rephrase that…
They ARE the two most popular breeds on the planet…
25 Nov 2009, 10:14 am
@ufo:
What’s with all the weeny dog talk.
ALSATIANS OR NOTHING !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
25 Nov 2009, 10:14 am
@ufo: ja….thought so….mine is very placid….great with kids …but up for the battles with the odd dog on the beach….but mostly handbags…snarl, show teeth, etc….
A bit like the Bok scrum…plenty of gnashing of teeth but no real substance.
25 Nov 2009, 10:16 am
BUT …
if I have to settle for a dinky dog, it will be a SCOTTIE !!!!!
25 Nov 2009, 10:17 am
@Dawn: Grumpy dogs those Elsatians….
Camps Bay and Clifton all these bloody designer dogs!!
Strange looking creatures, French Bulldogs….!! Afghans….they look better manicured than the ladies walking them….and better fed too!!
25 Nov 2009, 10:18 am
@grant10:
My Alsatian will be called KILLER.
25 Nov 2009, 10:20 am
@Dawn: Scotties!! Ultra grumpy!! And not scared of any other dog….ask me…i know all these breeds,walk the beaches for hours!!
Bull terriers seriously scary….i been chased by them all….
Great Danes are majestic, but my favorite is a really fit Bulldog….magic fellow…dig him
25 Nov 2009, 10:21 am
@Dawn: LOL….i reckon you an Alsatian type lady….all tough exterior….
But a poodle deep down in that heart!!
25 Nov 2009, 10:28 am
@Dawn:
Don’t use that word with the breeders… They’re called German Shepherds…
Rather like the when-we’s saying Rhodesia and not Zimbabwe…
@grant10: Even the most placid dog get’s irritated after the kids has poked it’s eye’s for the millionth time…
You don’t get bad dogs… only bad people/owners…
25 Nov 2009, 10:28 am
Poodle? Naaaah.
Marshmallow? Yes.
25 Nov 2009, 10:29 am
@ufo:
Woof.
25 Nov 2009, 10:30 am
@grant10: My favorite breed of dog is a Bulldog!
25 Nov 2009, 10:31 am
@Dawn: LOL….knew it!!
25 Nov 2009, 10:34 am
@Sharksgirl: Ja….Justrugby had a great big Bulldog….when we played England the dog , who was called Gin , was banned from the lounge….hilarious.
Stupid dog chased me one day, cant remember why, i had to jump on back of bakkie and wait for Justrugby to calm him down,
Poor bugger died, Justrugby was a broken man!!
25 Nov 2009, 10:34 am
@Dawn:
grrrrr…..
25 Nov 2009, 10:40 am
@ufo:
Behave!
25 Nov 2009, 10:42 am
@grant10: Poor Gin! I can understand JR! Must have felt bad for banning him during the matches, as well he should
25 Nov 2009, 10:49 am
@Sharksgirl:
LOL….I am still a broken man !!! When we played England in a 5 day test the bugger was banned from coming inside for 5 days !!!
I remember the day he chased Grant10 well……..was hilarious………Gin was a softy, would never harm a fly !!!!
25 Nov 2009, 10:51 am
@Dawn:
dinkie dog indeed scotties are fierce hunting dogs…
25 Nov 2009, 10:55 am
I am watching a rerun of Superugby as I type, all about our front row woes, Bullet Dalton is a guest giving his opinion….intruiging stuff !!
25 Nov 2009, 13:31 pm
I never liked Eddie Jones as a coach, and he fluked a lot of wins (I guess that’s why he and Jake White were such buddies ((thats when JW was despised by supporters as opposed to admired which seems more the case nowdays)).
But I agree with Jones on this – Deans is playing fantasy rugby and trying to turn the Wallabies into All Blacks part 2 (and its never going to happen)
25 Nov 2009, 13:34 pm
@justrugby: Pray, enlighten us more ..
25 Nov 2009, 13:40 pm
I reckon the Oz are playing a good style of rugby and they are unlucky that the Boks are ahead of them with experience/caps and graft /skill winning them games.
Deans is right to weed out the older players, they do like a whinge and under the old squad at Brumbies they shafted any coach they didnt like. Fair enough if you are getting the results but not anymore.
Oz have a good front row, good locks, good loosies. Missing a scrummie altho Genia is getting there. Need a solid 10 to kick and unleash Gits.. the rest all look ok as well with Ashley-Cooper looking world class. Dont rate quade though.
Now that was nice and balanced by a Bok supporter !!
25 Nov 2009, 13:40 pm
@bananas:
Bullet reckons definetely BJ at 3 and PDEV must decide between his captain and his best hooker(Bismark), make the decision and move on !!
25 Nov 2009, 14:19 pm
If Jones was coaching the Aussies and Deans the AB then I think the rugby world would be a different ball game.
25 Nov 2009, 14:51 pm
@bananas:
Good locks but not exceptional.
Far sight better than the current AB crop in the second row though.
25 Nov 2009, 15:35 pm
@ufo:
I am sorry but you are wrong about your dog bite statistics. I have been doing a lot of research on the topic as I own a Neapolitan Mastiff and the Chilean Government have proposed to ban Neos and 11 other “dangerous” breeds. Pitbulls and Rottweilers are by far the worst offenders internationally. In the USA more than 50% of attacks that result in serious injuries or death are perpetrated by Pitbulls.
My Neo is not very friendly but definitely not a menace! I walk him twice a day with a muzzle and on a leash – just in case …..
25 Nov 2009, 15:56 pm
@Chile Dog:
hey bud… it’s strange how you make assumptions based upon assumptions…
you haven’t read my post properly and you couldn’t have been doing too much research… and owning a breed like you do and taking it out in public… muzzled too… demonstrates your need for people to know you own such a dangerous breed… so you would want your stats to prove this…
if you’re narrowing it down to ‘dangerous breeds’ you could be spot on and I’ll take your word for it… I’m talking about ALL breeds…
dangerous breeds normally inflict far more damage when they do bite… and make more news… but more people are bitten by the non-dangerous breeds simply because there are more non-dangerous dogs out there…
statistically more spaniels and retrievers bite people in pure numbers because millions of them are owned around the world… so although they may not make the headlines… mom and dad still have to take baby or child along to the doc for tetanus shots…
that’s why it IS so surprising… everyone expects Pitbulls and Rotty and Neopolitans etc to head the list… of course they do as far as damage concerned but they do not bite more people… fact!!
Check it out with the Kennel Union of Southern Africa… KUSA… you see I did do my research based on unemotional fact… I’d rather take the offical dog NGO’s statistics as fact than yours…
but hey… of course you’re welcome to use whichever facts support your theory.
25 Nov 2009, 16:16 pm
@ufo:
Here are the dog bite statistics of the United States between 1996 and 2007:
Dog Bite statistics by breed
Thought you would all find this interesting–the numbers represent five colums, Column 1 is Breed Attacks doing Bodily Harm, #2 is Child Victims, #3 is Adult Victims, #4 is Deaths and #5 is Maimings. (The # sign meant there were additional comments, I left the web address for this info down below if you want to read more, it is 7 pages worth of info) Additionally, this info is specific to dogs that were family pets.
Akita 48 32 14 1 39
Cane Corso 4 1 2 1 3
Doberman 11 7 4 3 7 #
Doge de Bordeaux 2 1 0 0 1
Fila Brasiero 1 1 0 0 1
Great Dane 24 5 4 2 9
Mastiff 16 11 4 4 9
Tosa 1 1 0 0 1
Pit bull terrier 1110 495 397 104 608 #
Rottweiler 409 231 109 58 223 #
Golden retriever 6 6 0 1 4
Cocker spaniel 1 1 0 0 1
German shepherd 63 42 17 7 38
Total: 2209 1142 658 264 1323
As you can see Pit bull terriers account for most of the dog bites in the USA. I took their statistics because they have the biggest documented dog population in the world and they follow up on all kinds of bites.
It is interesting that German Shepherds account for so many bites and Neapolitan Matiffs for none.
These are the statistics used by the group I belong to to prove to the government the insanity of including Neos with Pit Bulls and Rottweilers and excluding German Shepherds from their list of dangerous dogs.
By the way Neapolitan Mastiffs are used as therapy dogs so they can’t be vicious and in no country in the world do they account for more bites than Beagles do.
25 Nov 2009, 16:21 pm
@Chile Dog:
This in only an extraxt of a list that is 7 pages in length.
25 Nov 2009, 16:22 pm
@Chile Dog:
extract
25 Nov 2009, 16:25 pm
@justrugby:
did he happen to admit, again, how he never came close to scoring that winning try in ’98 ?
25 Nov 2009, 16:30 pm
@Chile Dog:
you missing the point chile… those are stats in which significant and serious damage is done… but more ‘less severe’ (for want of a better word) bites are inflicted than maiming and death causing attacks…
your total of 2209 attacks doing bodily harm between 1996 and 2007 (12 years of stats) is put into perspective (with this debate) by the stat that some 4,7 million people are bitten by dogs in the USA alone (forget the rest of world…) EVERY year…
the most common quoted stats are of dangerous breeds or of fatal or ‘maiming’ attacks… simply because they make the headlines… but more people (mostly kids) are bitten by the “non-dangerous” breeds and spaniels and retrievers head the list… contact KUSA or the AKC (American Kennel Club) and ask them… don’t take my word for it…
25 Nov 2009, 16:34 pm
@WakaNathan: Yip…..he said it was absolutely legit
25 Nov 2009, 16:42 pm
@ufo:
I don’t want to get involved in an ongoing dispute with you but the figures I quote are all of the bites that are reported. I can also bore you with statistics from Europe. If one excludes Rottweillers, Pit Bulls and Wolf-hybrids most of the statistics are evenly spread amongs dog breeds. The strange thing is some breeds have an undeserved bad reputation (Dogue de Burdeos, Doberman etc.) , much like our beloved Springbok team!
It is true that any dog can be dangerous under the wrong circumstances. Look at this:
“The most horrifying example of the lack of breed predictability is the October 2000 death of a 6-week-old baby, which was killed by her family’s Pomeranian dog. The average weight of a Pomeranian is about 4 pounds, and they are not thought of as a dangerous breed. Note, however, that they were bred to be watchdogs! The baby’s uncle left the infant and the dog on a bed while the uncle prepared her bottle in the kitchen. Upon his return, the dog was mauling the baby, who died shortly afterwards. (“Baby Girl Killed by Family Dog,” Los Angeles Times, Monday, October 9, 2000, Home Edition, Metro Section, Page B-5.)”
And now let’s agree to disagree. I have agreed with most of your rugby comments the last couple of months following this blog.
25 Nov 2009, 16:52 pm
@Chile Dog:
cool chile… I know where you’re coming from and do know about dangerous breeds of dogs too…
but a quick google will reveal that 4,7 people are bitten by dogs in the US every year… which makes over 56,4-million people bitten in the 12 years of stats you’ve covered numbering in their thousands… as the ‘dangerous dog’ attacks are reported… that leaves some 56-million people bitten by non-dangerous dogs…
but you’re right… let’s rather chat rugby…
25 Nov 2009, 17:09 pm
Typical Eddie Moaner-Jones to undermine others from his previous roles or ones he has had an association with. Did the same to Connolly at Queensland, Fisher at Brumbies and McKenzie at Wallabies. He’s like a mutant strain of swine flu, no matter how many innoculations you take, he’s still in there spreading his anti-virus.
25 Nov 2009, 22:56 pm
Have a read of ‘Eddie Jones (Rugby Union)’ in Wikipedia – “His win-loss ratio is the lowest of any Wallabies coach”.
I know that Eddie found favour with the SA fans and has been credited with helping them win the WC, but the stats (if correct) suggest that he doesn’t know any more about coaching Aussies than RD does. Add his single super 12 title vs RD’s cupboard full, and whilst his points sound ‘reasonable’, is there really any reason to think that he knows better than RD? RD is obviously doing some rebuilding and working to get his team sorted for the future. Like the AB’s, it is also obvious that the current set of rules do not fit well to their more natural running game, so like the AB’s they are learning how to adapt to rules that are more suited to the NH teams.
I still believe that over the next couple of years we will see a much improved Wallabies team, with a new generation ready to give them several years at or near the top of the sport.
26 Nov 2009, 10:52 am
Oh Eddie, you’ll probably be in k@k for this again!
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