No excuses for tired Boks
26 Nov 2009
Nine Springboks can’t use fatigue as an excuse for a sub-par performance against Ireland at Croke Park on Saturday.
The senior Boks have looked jaded on the tour, where they couldn’t handle the physicality of the French – which they knew was coming as it was all the Tricolores talked about in the build-up – and they also laboured to an unimpressive win over Italy.
They are coming off the back of arguably their toughest season, with a physically- and mentally-draining Lions series, as well as a six-match Tri-Nations, in addition to Super 14 and Currie Cup duty. Now they face a fired up Ireland who have the most to gain, with an Irish victory sure to evoke reaction that this was ‘proof’ that the Lions deserved to win the series in South Africa (what every northern hemisphere pundit believes).
Despite the above facts, nine of the Boks on tour will still run out for the Barbarians against the All Blacks at Twickenham next Saturday, raising questions whether they really are that concerned about fatigue. Bismarck du Plessis, Beast Mtawarira, Victor Matfield, Schalk Burger and Danie Rossouw are in the pack, while backs Jaque Fourie, Morne Steyn, Bryan Habana and Fourie du Preez have been selected.
There is no doubt the leading Boks require rest, and here the Bok management should have stepped in. Many Boks were always going to be approached by the Baa Baas, and Peter de Villiers should have planned ahead and said these are the players available, and these aren’t. De Villiers acknowledged individuals such as Matfield have played too much rugby this year, but they’re still allowed a final fling in December.
Admittedly Matfield, Mtawarira, Du Plessis, Steyn, and Fourie will be making their debuts for the club, and their inclusions are understandable as you wouldn’t want to deny them the chance the play for the Baa Baas. But what will Botha and Du Preez – who also played in last year’s fixture – gain from it?
Along with Matfield, Du Preez and Botha are in the most need of rest, with the latter pair also battling injury concerns earlier this week. Du Plessis and Burger couldn’t face Italy, but are now set to play for the Baa Baas.
The Boks are essentially victims of their own success, as their brilliant year has meant the Baa Baas gain the most in terms of marketing by having these quality players in the fixture. Being selected for the team is an honour, and although the build-up in the week will be relaxed, it won’t do any of the players any good from a rugby perspective.
Tim Noakes stated that 2010 will be the year the Boks’ results plunge due to fatigue, and another 80 minutes on the field is pointless when they should be lounging on a beach somewhere far away from London. It may be termed a ‘friendly’ or exhibition match, but last year’s encounter against Australia at Wembley showed it was anything but.
All this does is grant what is likely to be a second-string All Blacks team a chance to prove a point to coach Graham Henry. They’ll have an opportunity to get stuck into the leading Boks, and to possibly dent a players’ confidence, or worse injure them.
The Boks didn’t train on Monday ahead of the Ireland clash, in a similar fashion to the way the workload tapered off on last year’s tour. That ended with a physically dominant 42-6 annihilation of England, and Bok supporters will hope they have enough in the tank to turn out a similar performance once more. If nine of them have the gas to turn out at Twickenham a week later, they don’t have any excuses in Dublin.
By Grant Ball
111 Comments
26 Nov 2009, 10:32 am
energetic dragons
26 Nov 2009, 10:33 am
These tired Dragons will crush the arrogant Irish
26 Nov 2009, 10:34 am
I really don’t know what to make of your article.
One thing is certain though, these Bokke are tired and they need rest, anyone who knows anything about competitive sport will tell you that much.
Your point about PDV stepping in; PDV leaves it up to the players to decide for themselves, these are grown men not little mommy’s boys who need approval from their parents.
“They’ll have an opportunity to get stuck into the leading Boks, and to possibly dent a players’ confidence, or worse injure them.”
Do you honestly believe that our players are that fragile?
In any case the babaas game is not meant as an all out competitive, must win fixture so I really don’t see what your problem is.
26 Nov 2009, 10:45 am
There is a wonderful Afrikaans saying:
Geld wat stom is, maak reg wat krom is. Or should it be – geld wat stom is, maak reg wat beseer is….
I can remember chatting to an ex Bok who told me that 7 years ago he got R70,000 once off for the Babaas game. Must be at least R100k now…. For one game???
26 Nov 2009, 10:48 am
Didn’t we have this story earlier in the week.
26 Nov 2009, 10:49 am
Funny – an article about how the Boks have “no excuses” for fatigue, and yet then goes on to give a long list citing “toughest season”, “physically, mentally draining”, “in addition to S14 and TriN” (as if other teams dont play for their clubs or 6N/TriN), “leading Boks require rest” and this absolute doozy “2010 will see results plunge thru fatigue”. Well, excuses already in place for next season now….
Has noone else been playing but the Boks ? who have been their opposition throughout this hectic season ? How come everyone else is SO fresh compared to them ?
Dont see any of them turning down the BaaBaas either.
The whinging hasnt stopped since the loss to France. All of a sudden the fatigue word has become standardised. Wouldnt want to give the victorious opposition too much credit now, would we.
Fact is, the Boks should dispense with Ireland rather comfortably without having to fall back on lame excuses like that. Lets not forget that some of the Lions squad departed late for SA because they had been involved with their clubs until the last day of their season, and we didnt hear ‘fatigue’ from them.
26 Nov 2009, 10:49 am
Ja I am with Jozi here Grant, can’t really see the point of the article.
A 3rd of the team is useless due to fatigue but 2/3rds cant use the excuse?
You will need all 22 players switched on and fit to win test matches.
So no real point there.
Quoting Noakes?
We all know that.
So are you actually saying a loss against Ireland cannot be blamed on fatigue?
Playing the Boks for the Baa-baa’s is stupid or that we will fail in 2010?
26 Nov 2009, 10:52 am
If they’re too “fatigued” to play pro rugby at test level, they could always kick it all in and go and become librarians or something. Surely?
After all, they’re only facing the Irish. In world rugby terms, that’s barely two laps of your local municipal pool, not exactly a swim across the English Channel.
Bleedin’ softies!
26 Nov 2009, 10:52 am
“Tim Noakes stated that 2010 will be the year the Boks’ results plunge due to fatigue,…”
I hope you guys remember it then.
What am I saying. We all know that you would stick it into PdV if the Boks start to lose next year. You are already blaming him for the players’ participation in the Baabaa match.
26 Nov 2009, 10:52 am
@WakaNathan: Fair comment. Agreed….
26 Nov 2009, 10:53 am
Didn’t we have this story earlier this MONTH?
26 Nov 2009, 10:58 am
Hey, Kiwis, Richie McCaw is using it as a ‘non-excuse’ excuse ahead of the French game. So quit with the ‘whinging’ rubbish.
26 Nov 2009, 11:04 am
@Jozi: Josi, Agree totally. These players are exhausted. If you play that amount of rugby or any sport continuously for a year, your body just can never handle it. Wont ever get the best results just flogging a dead horse.
Why they accepted the Baa Baas game is just plain stupid. If any of those players pick up a serious injury in that game, it will be for nothing. No amount of money is worth it.
26 Nov 2009, 11:07 am
@Dawn: I wouldn’t be surprised at all. If these guys could share their secrets with the rest of the world on how to recycle material, we wouldn’t need all these GO GREEN conferences.
26 Nov 2009, 11:10 am
@Puma: Yip and I’m sure PDV would have told them as much but the choice is obviously theirs in the end. I hope it doesn’t back fire.
26 Nov 2009, 11:11 am
@Jozi:
I wish they’d stop re-hashing it.
Fodder for our Kiwi brothers!
26 Nov 2009, 11:12 am
Whenever Jerry Collins was sent off for some rest and reconditioning, he’d hop off to one of his local working-class footie clubs in Wainuiomata in Wellington (either rugby union or league) and turn out semi-anonymously for their 2nd team, just to make sure he kept his eye in. That guy just loved playing footie. Anytime, anywhere. And Jerry would never go into any game half-cocked — he’s always deliver the full quid.
26 Nov 2009, 11:13 am
@nama1: Hello mate, It is the players I think that accept that invitation to play in the Baa Baas game. PdV would never have stood in their way if they wanted to play. So if they get injured I for one will never blame PdV. He could have said no but think he wont stand in the way of those players that will want to play for the Baa Baas. I think it is just plain daft of those players that accepted to play.
26 Nov 2009, 11:16 am
@Jozi: Yip, I hope it does not backfire either with some serious injuries. The Ireland game is a step too far already for some of these players. They are exhausted. Then to accept to play in that Baa Baas games is plain stupid.
26 Nov 2009, 11:19 am
@TheTackler:
Apparently he was the unnamed player in the sax scandal not so long ago.
They caught him playing snakes and ladders with 2 ladies.
I speak under correction, it could have been monopoly.
So yeah, active bloke, both on and off the field.
26 Nov 2009, 11:20 am
@Dawn: You talking about Waka, he doesn’t need much to get him all excited. The mere presence of saffas on these boards is enough to get him going
At least he seems to have tapered off the Bakkies thing for now.
BaXXies!
26 Nov 2009, 11:23 am
@TheTackler: Where is he now? How old is he again. Maybe he should have actually rested
26 Nov 2009, 11:25 am
personally I don’t think the flatness of the Boks has anything to do with fatigue… I think it’s had more to do with complacency and being secure in their comfort zones…
26 Nov 2009, 11:29 am
this article doesn’t follow reason.
so, players shouldn’t complain about fatigue if they agree to play for baa-baa’s?
but 7 of them have never had the chance to play for this unique club before.
so, are they supposed to turn it down despite the odds of never getting the opportunity again.
rubbish.
26 Nov 2009, 11:31 am
Jerry’s making big money on his twilight travel trip in Europe. His AB career is over, so now he’s earning great fat gobs of Euro kaching-and-bling before he calls it quits forever. That’s buiding up his retirement fund so he can retire in comfort for the rest of hislife before he even hits 40. Not altogether a bad pension plan for a simple hard-working man from Wainui, I’d say?
26 Nov 2009, 11:32 am
@Jozi:
I consider them my comrades, even though they use words like “PEN*S” and “HALF-COCKED” here.
Rude!
26 Nov 2009, 11:36 am
@TheTackler:
how do you turn out semi-anonymously?
a false name?
a moustache and suglasses?
a dodgy russian accent?
what the arsing ***** are you talking about?
26 Nov 2009, 11:37 am
I go into work every day and have work fatigue, profeessor Noakes can I have an extended time off as it will assist in my performance in the long run. What a load of rubbish. They are professional rugby players and as such are used to the weekly riggers of the game. Playing for the baa baas is still one of the few delights and honours left in an over killed calendar of the same boring stuff.
This article makes no sense. If I enjoy what I do and want to do it how can it be over kill. However if I am tired and need a rest I will clearly say no.
26 Nov 2009, 11:40 am
@gunther:
but he gave the game away when he knelt and p’d on the field at half-time…
26 Nov 2009, 11:43 am
So another thread on fatigue and tired springboks,i tell what must be getting tired and fatigued is these damn excuses,same ole same ole. You lost over 2 weeks ago but still going on about fatigue. lol funny **** this is
26 Nov 2009, 11:45 am
@gunther: You’re on the roneoed team sheet listed in the lock’s #5 jersey as “Colly Jeremiah”.
26 Nov 2009, 11:47 am
@TheTackler:
I lived in Wainui for 33 years,Jerry is not from Wainui,he played for the Wainui team maybe for 2 seasons at the most as did Jonah Lomu,both of them were not from Wainui.
26 Nov 2009, 11:49 am
@Hurricane:
So the imposter got his facts wrong.
Whats new.
26 Nov 2009, 11:54 am
@Puma: #18
Hallo Puma.
Exactly. I agree 100% with you.
What percentage of their money do the agents get? Do you have any idea?
I think SARPA should have a look at the agents of rugby players and see what role they play in “convincing” their players to take part in meaningless matches like this.
Too little is known about the role that agents play.
Unfortunately Keo’s journalists are not known for investigative journalism.
26 Nov 2009, 11:54 am
@TheTackler:
sounds like you so enamoured with the true blue battler made good, you should marry him.
Jerry was a legend, but gone are the days when you play in some duffer side only to get injured.
26 Nov 2009, 11:55 am
Hmmm…
None of the players have blamed their performances on fatigue (that I know of), the media did.
Your saying they ARE tired and give reasons why.
Your saying they have no excuse to be
….
What’s the point of this article again?
26 Nov 2009, 11:57 am
Most people do their hobbies automatically.
Not tackler. He does his manually.
26 Nov 2009, 11:58 am
@pedspin:
does your work involve intense activity and physical punishment?
do you run the risk of serious injury when you go to the office?
are you generally considered to be past your sell by date at the age of 35 in your profession?
unless you are a hooker with a clientele that is heavily into bondage I would suggest not….
that said it is an honour to be asked to represent the babas and it would be churlish to deny anyone the opportunity…especially for the first time..
26 Nov 2009, 11:59 am
I don’t think I have ever seen the AB supporters on this website so vocal. Those three consecutive wins earlier this year must still be festering…
26 Nov 2009, 12:00 pm
@nama1:
the norm is 20% although it varies on deal to deal depending on the structure and size of the deal and if there are different agents / parties invloved…
26 Nov 2009, 12:00 pm
“No excuses for tired Boks”
Eh noone sees the complete contradiction here…?….
26 Nov 2009, 12:01 pm
@Breakdown Boy:
yep beaten by the better team we were. Now can you guys say that?? Or is no one a better team?
26 Nov 2009, 12:03 pm
This Russell (or is that Jock) Hobbs snackwich is a winner.
26 Nov 2009, 12:03 pm
@ufo:
lol and he will retire at 40 with globs of €uro kaching and bling
which will last him until he is 45…
in the words of george best
I spent most of my money on booze and prossies…
the rest I just squandered…
26 Nov 2009, 12:04 pm
@pedspin: The point is if your opposition enjoy what they are doing as well and have expended less energy in recent games they have more in the tank when it comes to facing you. Its not only about your condition , but your condition relative to your opponents.
26 Nov 2009, 12:09 pm
@gunther: You got me Gunther :>
Time for a profession change.
The point I am trying to make is yes there is a lot of rugby and I am sure it does have an impact on the players bodies but until there is a paradigm shift worldwide (unlikely as the media, adminstrators and players all like the abudance of cash) then it is time for these excuses – lets face it when they are winning we don’t hear these excuses – to come to an end.
I for one am bored with the commercialism and overkill of rugby at present. Bring back proper tours. Play the A/B once every 3 years. Just watching the Leicester and Saracens game it was clear how much that meant for those players. I am sure it will not go unnoticed the attendance as well. Much better than some of those Blom tests etc.
To me in a game of skop and return skop, followed by up and under the Baa Baas are a breath of fresh air and it is good to see so many “tired” players keen.
26 Nov 2009, 12:10 pm
@bananaboy: Gloabl claendar?
26 Nov 2009, 12:18 pm
Fatigue is real. All the SH sides are feeling the effects. For goodness sake, Aus have drawn to Ireland and lost to Scotland this year. Fair dues to those teams, but the Aussies have looked half the team they are capable of being. And then there’s the Kiwis. Struggled against England. REALLY struggled against Italy and the French will be sniffing blood.
But there are so many contradictions in this article, you could be Malema’s spin doctor Grant.
26 Nov 2009, 12:20 pm
@pedspin:
you know what they say….
spare the whip and spoil the hooker…
I agree with you cricket is going the same way too.. even the indians are getting cricket fatigue…what next…
by the way if age is catching up with you may I suggest softer lighting?
26 Nov 2009, 12:21 pm
@TheTackler: Fair enough. Hes done well since a garbage removal days. Good for him
26 Nov 2009, 12:27 pm
@gunther:
Thanks Gunther.
So an agent with say 4 Boks in the Baabaa team stands to earn R80 000 if all four of his players are paid R100 000 for the match. And he isn’t even moeg.
Any idea who the agents of the nine Boks are. Obviously Bernie is Brian’s agent.
26 Nov 2009, 12:34 pm
obviously these guys just wanna line their pockets with xmas bonuses from the baabaas game…money talks
fatigue my as*
26 Nov 2009, 12:40 pm
@TheTackler:
Jerry, hard as nails…one of the greats of world rugby, not just for what he did on it…he showed us all that it is just a game. remember him running out for some amateur club side in France a while back.
26 Nov 2009, 12:55 pm
nama
its not really about naming and shaming individual agents! the money inthe context of what these players earn including endorsements and image rights is not really a big deal… sure its a nice earner and pays for the christmas presents but for the players its more about the pissup and the prestige of playing for the babas… and the lap dances of course…
where you realy have to look at agents greed is pushing a kid like frans steyn into a 3 year overseas deal…really the wrong call for somebody at that stage of his career…
26 Nov 2009, 12:59 pm
nama
its not really about naming and shaming individual agents! the money in the context of what these players earn is not really a big deal… sure its a nice earner and pays for the christmas presents but for the players its more about the boozing and the prestige of playing for the baabaas… and the lap dances of course…
where you realy have to look at agents greed is pushing a kid like frans steyn into a 3 year overseas deal…really the wrong call for somebody at that stage of his career…
26 Nov 2009, 13:02 pm
@Jozi:
did someone mention ‘armbands’ ?!
……………………*deep breath*…………………
.
……………………BOO !
@SimiJan:
How so ?
on last years EOYT, King McCaw played every single match for the ABs and then rocked on up for the BaaBaa’s without word of complaint. Remember that superb loose-fwd trio of McCaw, Burger and who ? Jerry ? Anyways, I think that was 5 Tests he played, which is 4 more than FdP and co had played when “fatigue” popped up after Toulouse. McCaw will play 5 out of 6 of these NH tour matches, 1-3 more than any of the Boks will.
The thing I like most about McCaw is his old-school values; no complaints, gets on with it, never disses his opposition or opposite, plays like a fken maniac in the toughest position in rugby and turns up the next Saturday ready to do it again. He never whinges about or at the ref, shows utmost respect. He respects the jersey too much to defame it with any righteous bile either.
And whats he most looking fwd to after the BaaBaas final whistle ? Finishing off his gliding pilots licence ! how cool is that.
26 Nov 2009, 13:02 pm
I personally think the win over Italy was impressive because you don’t simply beat those guys 50 nil anymore. We did better than NZ didn’t we.
26 Nov 2009, 13:04 pm
@Wezwp:
Yes, your 1sts did do marginally better against Italia than the AB 2nds did. This is true.
The AB 2nds still won tho.
26 Nov 2009, 13:09 pm
@gunther: I will have to try the soft lighting….
I agree there is a fair amount of horse trading amongst the agents but surely in the Frans Steyn case it has to be a combination of personal greed, making the cash before you get a life threatening injury and rumour has it his dad (a bit like Habana’s) has more than a strong enfluence.
Rugby like everything else in life is about cash and the French league is now the richest in the world it seems.
Rugby will eventually become like football, where the richest have the best teams and attract the best players. International rugby will be about prestige or increasing your commerciallity eg Beckham etc
26 Nov 2009, 13:09 pm
The majority of New Zealand’s first team played in that win over Italy. I would hardly call that a 2nd team. Guildford imo is also a 1st team player. Waka could you please give me 2nd string players that started that game.
26 Nov 2009, 13:09 pm
@WakaNathan:
3-0 (thats all I have to do to hush a new zealander)
26 Nov 2009, 13:12 pm
@TheTackler:
Not strictly correct.
Jerry played almost his entire career ‘half-crocked’. He was the absolute schoolboy star aged 17/18. I think he even Captained his club aged 18, which was unheard of. After playing for NZ Age-group teams and seemingly destined for the top, he smashed his ankle to smithereens in an accident. Surgeons said he wouldnt play again, too many loose bits floatin about. Anyways, he had nearly 2 seasons off, trained thru and has apparently played thru tremendous pain for years.
Not as much as his opponent have tho.
Loved Jerry and we miss him. If only he was another 2-3 inches taller and was a lineout option then he would have been the perfect 6, he was 1 mean mo fo.
26 Nov 2009, 13:14 pm
@Kobus Kitty:
When the ***** is growling at the door while Im eating, I usually open the door and swing it out by its tail like a hammer-throw.
26 Nov 2009, 13:16 pm
@WakaNathan:
And what do you do to the sheep?
26 Nov 2009, 13:19 pm
I always puke on the kitty when plastered.
26 Nov 2009, 13:20 pm
Im waiting Waka……..who were the NZ 2nd team players that started against Italy?
26 Nov 2009, 13:20 pm
isn’t this lovely.
we have most of the regular kiwi bloggers here today.
well, not quite…still missing chaz, aidoc, nzmaori, poppa69, cappie feathertail and a few others.
makes the blog much more interesting…nice to read some hero worshipping for a change rather than the normal saffa comments running down the bok players
26 Nov 2009, 13:20 pm
@Wezwp: “We did better than NZ didn’t we.”
Yes and no. Yes – you scored more and won by more (difference 8 points). No – you conceded a try.
Last time the ABs conceded a try in a Test match in Europe was in that night in Cardiff 2 years ago, if my memory serves me right, that’s 2 consecutive clean tours, if they manage to fend off Frogs this weekend.
Not bad, isn’t it?
And yes, Boks have been doing very well this year, by the way. Great year.
26 Nov 2009, 13:21 pm
@Wezwp:
Youre kidding, right ?
The team was Captained by Soaiolo for starters. He’s been 2nd-team all year, confirmed as much by missing out on a bench place vs France. Sad but true, but he’s been a great warrior in Black.
Otherwise; Flynn, Crockett, Boric, Delaney (debut), Ellison (debut), Smith (debut), Messam, Latimer and Ellis are all, most definitely 2nd XV squad members.
Only Tialata, Donnelly (by default), Sivivatu and Jane could be considered 1st XV members of the starting XV vs Italia.
26 Nov 2009, 13:22 pm
@charo:
Poppa69 is around.
26 Nov 2009, 13:22 pm
The springBoks are like Brazil in soccer, they concede 2 goals but score 6.
26 Nov 2009, 13:23 pm
@WakaNathan:
ok mate now leave it out… we all know ritchie is a legend.. just do his flies up when you are finished with him ok?
26 Nov 2009, 13:23 pm
@Kobus Kitty:
there is no virgin-wool left in NZ. We’ve now turned on the possums, but their nails are viciously sharp (almost as sharp as Mrs Wakas)
26 Nov 2009, 13:24 pm
@WakaNathan:
Dan Carter and McCaw are your only unique players. The rest of your players kind of blend in with one another thanks to your rotation policy.
26 Nov 2009, 13:26 pm
Im sure the original bok 2nd team with wicus, joe pieterson,wynand, adi(because jean is first choice) sarel pretorius, peter grantetc wouldv klapped the italians.
26 Nov 2009, 13:28 pm
@charo:
Morning, Chip.
Popped in to see how your cyber-feifdom is going, making sure noone is failing to adhere to the Gospel according to Chip ?
Everyone has paid their Bok-worship tax ?
Better ensure the monocle is afixed in place and armbands straightened ?
aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaAAAAAAAAAAA TEN TION
Colonel Chip, your men are ready for inspection !
26 Nov 2009, 13:30 pm
The most entertaining game for me during the european autumn internationals were without a doubt the Aussies against Ireland and Scotland.
26 Nov 2009, 13:30 pm
@Wezwp:
2nd Choice is Olivier. Adi at 12 is out of position and is a quota.
26 Nov 2009, 13:31 pm
@Wezwp:
Oh no doubt seeing Giteau miss that final conversion was enjoyable.
26 Nov 2009, 13:32 pm
kia ora Waka! whatever that means, my cuz in Auckland just mailed me something.
26 Nov 2009, 13:33 pm
@Vetkoek: #48
Yes, they are just as fatigue. But you did not hear the Aus use that as an excuse for the loss.
That is what we as South Africans should learn if/when we lose.
26 Nov 2009, 13:35 pm
Ja mr kitty i thoroughly enjoyed the scottish performance. Its about bloody time they beat one of the top teams.
26 Nov 2009, 13:38 pm
Wynand is just as bad, that tuilagi of Leicester did give him major problems and doesnt Wynand know about passing. He also played kak in the 3rd british lions game.
26 Nov 2009, 13:51 pm
@WakaNathan:
geez waka, you are friggen funny mate.
ever thought about changing careers?
there’s a shortage of stand-up comedians in london i hear.
26 Nov 2009, 13:52 pm
@Wezwp:
HEAR HEAR !!!
Loved seeing the Aussies go DOWN, esp against my forefathers the Mighty Jocks (theyre BACK y’know, Andy Irvine has even beem coaxed out of retirement).
@Wezwp:
kia ora to you too bro (ie gidday, how are ya, ca va ?).
I nb how you went rather quiet on the ’2nd XV’ issue when I listed them, incl all those debutants. Presumably that met your stringent criteria then ?
26 Nov 2009, 14:01 pm
Hope your precious all blacks can pull it off against the french and restore some southern hemisphere pride. Im sorry to say that the Boks and aussies didnt contribute to much in redeeming us from all the embarrassment.
26 Nov 2009, 14:08 pm
I have no doubt in my mind thay the all blacks will annihilate the French this weekend and i have to admit i lost a little faith in the beloved Boks.
26 Nov 2009, 14:14 pm
Players who should always start for the boks: smit(with bismark coming on 2nd half), victor,bakkies, juan, ratel, spies(with burger in the mix somewhere), fdp, morne, habana, jdv, fourie, jpp(we seriously need a replacement for this guy), fs .
26 Nov 2009, 14:43 pm
Bit of a nothing article really.
You have one of the top sports scientists in the world telling us our players have played too much rugby and are buggered. And then you have Grant, a writer, saying the players have no excuses?
Put it this way, the BaaBaas game is not going to be the reason our guys have played too much rugby this year. And I can guarantee that a lot of our payers playing that match will not play a full game if the usual BaaBaas squad size is used.
26 Nov 2009, 14:55 pm
@charo:
Ever thought of upskilling yourself ?
You could be a builder. We call them ‘chippies’ where I come from.
or you could open a takeaway bar, selling chicken, fish and chips. Here in UK, they call them ‘chippies’.
Which do you prefer ?
26 Nov 2009, 14:59 pm
@Wezwp:
I dont share your enthusiasm.
France in France, esp at Marseille where they have a phenomenal record, is a big ask. Id be delighted with a 1-pt win but I suspect French will take it by 5/6pts.
The ABs wont blame it on ‘fatigue’ tho, they’ll acknowledge that the opposition were simply, better.
Lets not forget France turned up in NZ at the end of their season, with Top 14 French club finals overlapping. And that the Lions also had the club finals overlapping their departure for SA. Now imagine how it would have gone down if they had blamed ‘fatigue’ after that 1st Test loss ?
26 Nov 2009, 15:04 pm
@Yetirat:
Blame the National rugby administrators, theyre the ones that are slowly cooking the goose without any regard for the players health.
Fact remains that all Test players are overplayed, and everyone is only cottoning on to it now with injuries to Engl props. Typical, kneejerk policy making. And how the ABs were mocked for their ‘cotton wooling’ of players pre RWC and, yet, they were both right and wrong, its a tricky balancing act to keep players match-hardened but also not exposing them to unnecessary wear’n'tear.
26 Nov 2009, 15:15 pm
@gunther: #54
I think his father probably had more to do with that than his agent.
26 Nov 2009, 15:20 pm
@WakaNathan:
Someone in charge has to recognise and address the problem now, there can be no more ignoring it.
Jake White was criticised for withholding his 1st choice Boks in the Tri-Nations leading up to the RWC. He did that based on advice from Tim Noakes and that seemed to work out just fine for everybody.
That high-performance training camp that the NZ’ers tried which resulted in their 1st choice players being released halfway through the S14 was diabolical though. I guess to an average Joe like me, there is nothing “high-performance” about plain old rest & relaxation. Surely that was where they went wrong?
26 Nov 2009, 15:27 pm
@Yetirat:
Jake White didnt withhold players on medical advice, unless you mean psychologically. He withdrew them – but only after the fullstrength ABs had filled their stadiums in SA – because he didnt want to inflict another psychologically-damaging defeat in NZ prior to the RWC. And he did it at the last minute, and then arrived in NZ and immediately branding the ABs as cheats.
Remember, JW never coached a winning team in NZ.
As for player-management being down to the administrators, well theyre exactly the ones committing them to more and more games a season, not the other way around.
26 Nov 2009, 15:41 pm
@WakaNathan:
I think you’ll find within the Jake White Autobiography that the reasons for withholding/withdrawing those players can be attributed almost 100% to discussions Jake had with Tim Noakes.
I suppose the players, as the great peasants of France once did, need to rise up and start showing some clout through their own Players Union (or whatever it’s called), as that to me is the only alternative route to change with any real strength behind it.
Perhaps they need to start adding a few caveats in their contracts to allow less game time per year but with prospect of a longer and healthier playing career.
26 Nov 2009, 16:02 pm
@nama1: \
in cahoots…
26 Nov 2009, 16:18 pm
@Yetirat:
With respect, thats BS. JW was happy enough to complete his home leg of the TriN where the environment was 100% positive for his team, and hope they registered victories for that pyschological boost going in to the RWC. They lost to the ABs at home so that went out the window. He then pulled the Boks 1st XV and devised a plan to focus referees attention on the ABs supposed illegal tactics as a way of undermining his main rival. That is why he sent Johan Muller down as Bok Capt who only stepped off the plane before pointing at McCaw in the press conference and labelling him “a cheat”. Completely premeditated by JW.
What Jake wrote and what he did are 2 different things. He wanted to retain most of the glory for himself, much like his close mate Woodward, and was happy to re-jiggle the story to serve that purpose and that purpose only.
26 Nov 2009, 22:16 pm
@WakaNathan: And McCaw is using his “cop out” clause next year to sit out the first half of the S14. So he can afford to do this “without complaints”.
Not every player gets to tell his coach when and where he will be playing…
26 Nov 2009, 22:26 pm
@WakaNathan: I think you are, with respect, talking BS.
Jake on SEVERAL occasions was on the verge of victory in NZ, with defeat being snatched from the jaws of victory in the dying seconds. There was no reason not to believe that the Boks could not win in NZ. They could have done so on many occasions, but got unlucky.
Also, the loss in SA in 2007 in Durban needs to be looked at in context of teh game – you were 11 points down with 5 minutes to go, and Jake started experimenting with Frans Steyn at flyhalf (with an eyey on the RWC). Steyn stuffed it up six love, and did not play flyhalf for the boks in RWC again. The entire plan was focussed on one thing only – Bill.
Remember Jake had not removed his Boks from the S14 like Henry – and he was always a firm believer in conditioing. so when else was he supposed to do it? So how come if Henry rests his players, he was being calculating, but if Jake did, he was being chicken.
The “psychological aspect” of losing in NZ was secondary and could easily have been written off as “home ground advantage” which would be nullified in France.
Jake also recognised that depth was immportant to the RWC (just like Henry and his rotation policy), and need to know who he could count on. So sending teh bok 2nd string to NZ suite dhim wel in that way. They didn;t go too badly, losing by far in the end, but being pretty close (if not ahead?) up until the closing stages.
The best thing of all is that you just cannot argue that his planning was bad, and it achieved what it was meant to achieve.
26 Nov 2009, 22:27 pm
@WakaNathan: Oh and PS, did you watch the Lions matches? EACH of those was the equivalent of about three normal test matches- they were FREAKING BRUTAL…
I can understand the Boks being tired.
27 Nov 2009, 01:18 am
Pet ******* grinding a barrel-organ produce a more varied and better output than that old pseud from UCT, forever rabbiting on about “burnout” — a concept he invented way back in the olden days when anyone could pretty well dive off the nearest rocks and gather a few decent sized crayfish for dinner.
27 Nov 2009, 01:28 am
@TheTackler:
Talking about rabbiting on……when last did you take a look in the mirror?
27 Nov 2009, 01:35 am
@TheTackler: talking to yourself again ou tackle-doos!
27 Nov 2009, 07:26 am
@TheTackler: Oh shut up. That “pseud” as you choose to call him klapped your *** not so long ago in an intellectual debate right here on Keo, so much so that you were depressed and ashamed and stopped blogging for a good few weeks or have you forgotten Bwahahahaha….
Tickles you’re a sad joke. How’s the plumbing business coming along by the way?
27 Nov 2009, 09:21 am
wanker nathan, you are tickles are funny fowls. Talking about RWC 2007, you know all about the Bok plans, JW talking rubbish (I mean what does he know about the team he coached compared to the great wanker nathan!) etc. Maybe tell us a little about the AB plan. How well did it work? Where did the AB’s finish in the RWC that year?
Tell us a little about how your AB 2nd team had to be rescued from a scrum drubbing in Italy by the supposedly neutral IRB referee chief one PoB with whom you just occassionally change places to service the great god mccaw, holder of how many RWC medals etc (well none actually but he tried his best).
27 Nov 2009, 15:51 pm
@husky:
Our 2nds beat Italy.
Which Test nation didnt your 2nd team beat ?
27 Nov 2009, 19:01 pm
@TheTackler: “… than that old pseud from UCT, forever rabbiting on about “burnout” — a concept he invented way back in the olden days … blah blah”
I think you’re confusing him with GH and his “conditioning” concept/program.
@husky: “…the great god mccaw, holder of how many RWC medals etc (well none actually but he tried his best)”
He’s a really good player btw … imagine how successful he’d have been and how many RWC medals he’d have in a decent team with a decent coach.
28 Nov 2009, 04:40 am
They wont use fatigue as an excuse.
By the way who is roped in to sing the national anthem?
28 Nov 2009, 06:24 am
@WakaNathan:
Ha ha, who gives a toss about 2nd treams really?? Our first team beat your first team…….. thats right 3 times this year! Your first team lost at home to the French 2nd team and yeah our first team lost to the French first team away. So whats the up shot?? Waka is a dooooooooooooos!
28 Nov 2009, 06:26 am
@wallabie.:
I heard Scotland were fatigued last week? What does that say about the wobblies?
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