Smit starts at hooker
26 Nov 2009
John Smit will revert to his strongest position this Saturday while the uncapped Dewald Potgieter has been named on the bench.
Smit played down the shift when probed on the matter. On a tour marred by poor scrumming and front-row injuries, the Springboks have lost Gurthro Steenkamp, Chiliboy Ralepelle, Jannie du Plessis and most recently Adriaan Strauss. Bismarck du Plessis has had a rib concern, while CJ van der Linde has just recovered from a hamstring ailment.
The string of injuries sees Smit reverting to the position where many experts, including former team-mate Os du Randt, feel he’s best.
‘It’s been awhile since I’ve played hooker – I think my last start was in the Super 14. Hopefully it’s just like riding a bicycle,’ Smit told keo.co.za.
‘It’s going to be an epic Test. They’re the Six Nations champions and we’ve enjoyed a good year, so it’s going to be tough.’
Peter de Villiers has also selected BJ Botha at tighthead and Beast Mtawarira at loosehead after this front-row combination impressed in the closing stages of the Italy Test. De Villiers, however, refused to say whether this combination would be retained in future matches.
‘We now have a lot of options and can opt for a horse for courses approach,’ the Bok coach said. ‘The front row we’ve selected is perfect for how we want to play against Ireland.’
Botha (Ulster), Van der Linde (Leinster) and Jean de Villiers (Munster) all play their club rugby in Ireland, and are included despite the policy that frowns on the selection of overseas-based players.
Peter de Villiers said this stance was relaxed given the number of injuries and the fact that the trio were playing in Ireland.
‘We will always look inside our own country first. If we can’t find someone good enough, only then will we look outside.
‘We are fortunate that Jean was here and thought it would be stupid to fly a replacement out from South Africa. He knows the system and it’s not even three months since he last played for South Africa.’
Other changes to the pack see Danie Rossouw shifted to No 8 in place of Ryan Kankowski while Schalk Burger returns from a rib injury. Bakkies Botha is still battling a back injury but is named in the starting side.
De Villiers said the change at No 8 is down to injury and not because of the physicality Rossouw can bring to the contest.
‘Kanko got a bump against Italy and we’ve decided to manage him,’ said De Villiers, even though Kankowski trained with the Boks on Thursday. ‘It’s going to be a tough Super 14 so we have to think of the player as well.’
Wynand Olivier is preferred in the centres with Jean de Villiers warming the bench. De Villiers was a late replacement for injured centre Adi Jacobs.
Springboks – 15 Zane Kirchner, 14 JP Pietersen, 13 Jaque Fourie, 12 Wynand Olivier, 11 Bryan Habana, 10 Morne Steyn, 9 Fourie du Preez, 8 Danie Rossouw, 7 Schalk Burger, 6 Heinrich Brussow, 5 Victor Matfield, 4 Bakkies Botha, 3 BJ Botha, 2 John Smit (c), 1 Beast Mtawarira.
Subs: 16 Bismarck du Plessis, 17 CJ van der Linde, 18 Andries Bekker, 19 Jean Deysel, 20 Dewald Potgieter, 21 Ruan Pienaar, 22 Jean de Villiers.
By Jon Cardinelli, in Dublin
409 Comments
26 Nov 2009, 15:02 pm
pdv shows again he isn’t stubborn.
26 Nov 2009, 15:02 pm
Good news – pack looks quite strong.
26 Nov 2009, 15:02 pm
At least Smit is back to hooker, and Jean Dragons is on the bench
26 Nov 2009, 15:03 pm
Poor Ratel will have to play both 6 and 7, untill Deysel comes on to help him!
26 Nov 2009, 15:04 pm
Huh?
26 Nov 2009, 15:04 pm
good team though, I see no reason for Potgieter to be on the bench instead on kanko. And i’m not a big fan of Dannie the cart horse at 8, but from all accounts the weather is going to suit the cart horse. I have a feeling the 2 back backup might be a little thin. we might see Bekker playing at 13 before the end of the game… ahem i mean intentionally.
26 Nov 2009, 15:04 pm
5-2 split kind of sells the gameplan
26 Nov 2009, 15:05 pm
Excellent team.
Finally sanity prevails. What makes this team so great is its bench.
For the first time this year, we have a bench that can actually STRENGTHEN the team in the last 20 minutes.
Imagine if you can bring on Bismark, Jean Deysel, and Jean de Villiers as impact players, rather than having to bring on Ricky january, Chilliboy Rallapele and Adi Jacobs.
Of course, the quota brigade won’t be happy with this team, but it is absolutely the best one available.
What a strong forward bench, in particular.
26 Nov 2009, 15:05 pm
Good team
26 Nov 2009, 15:06 pm
@Observer:
For one, Potgieter doesn’t cough the ball up each time he is tackled.
26 Nov 2009, 15:06 pm
Was always going to be a tight game, they may have to try and keep the ball a lot more than they have been due to the strong winds that are apparently predicted. So go with the big pack, just make sure they hit the breakdowns better than they have been doing…
26 Nov 2009, 15:06 pm
huge amount of respect to PdV
as i’ve always contended grant10..in Pdv we trust
26 Nov 2009, 15:07 pm
@Tacitus: Good point!!
26 Nov 2009, 15:09 pm
@Tacitus: u dont even deserve a informed response
transformation,please dont fall for it
26 Nov 2009, 15:09 pm
What a great bench!! much better!
26 Nov 2009, 15:10 pm
Weaknesses are Zane Kirchner, CJ vd Linde and Andries Bekker.
The rest of the 22 are very solid. Definitely the best team available.
26 Nov 2009, 15:10 pm
G10 will be happy.
The Smit story wont finish here tho. For my money, Bismarck has been the best no2 in the World this year.
Maybe this is Smits personal choice for his retirement match ?
Cant believe how much the Boks, and fans here, rate Roussow. He’s a plodder no less. Surely this was the perfect opportunity to get Potgeiter or Deysel in there, testing them at the coalface. Shuffle the loosies to put Burger at 8 and Potgeiter in to the mix, he looks excellent.
Still cant see the Paddys getting past this Bok team, esp knowing its their final match before hitting the beach. Boks by 9.
26 Nov 2009, 15:10 pm
gotto feel for a player like Kanko though
26 Nov 2009, 15:11 pm
@Tacitus: Hhahaahah GOOD ONE
A great team from 1-22. I like Danie at 8, he will do the Business on Saturday.
26 Nov 2009, 15:11 pm
@Tacitus: Bulls would give there left horn to have CJ in there squad!
26 Nov 2009, 15:13 pm
:@ #4 & #8
Why can’t you guys just be positive about the team with remarks like this. I, and I believe many others, would not prefer WO in the team ahead of JdV. The coach had other ideas. Let’s respect them without all this negativity that you portray here.
26 Nov 2009, 15:13 pm
@Papoose: yes…i am thrilled with team
26 Nov 2009, 15:13 pm
@Papoose:
Why? He had his chance and he played like ****.
26 Nov 2009, 15:14 pm
Interesting front row permutations.
Bismark and CJ will probably come on for Beast and BJ, with Smit shifting to tighthead.
Potentially the best front row options the Springboks have going into the next world cup.
With Strauss, Du Preez, Nel, Blaauw and Van Der Merwe entering the mix more frequently thereafter.
26 Nov 2009, 15:15 pm
@WakaNathan: i am ecstatic….and you may be close to the mark with the smit retirement hint….wouldnt surprise me in the least.
26 Nov 2009, 15:15 pm
Let’s see how Wynand Olivier does.
I think this tour hasn’t been great for Kanko and he may well lose his regular place in the mix to the likes of Deysel or Potgieter.
The problem is, if WO doesn’t step up, who do the Boks replace him with?
Bosman?
Ebershon?
De Jongh?
26 Nov 2009, 15:15 pm
@nama1:
with=without
26 Nov 2009, 15:17 pm
Great team, best available.
Watch us take the Paddy scrum for a walk, and humiliate the second best lock pair in world rugby at lineout time.
26 Nov 2009, 15:18 pm
@Observer: Danie was our WC rugby final winner, maybe you forgot that he made the most important tackle of the whole world cup! So dont’t dis Danie, he’s a hero.
26 Nov 2009, 15:18 pm
@Tacitus: A few too many Bulls players in the backline hey …
Otherwise … all good.
26 Nov 2009, 15:19 pm
@WakaNathan: Waka, Rossouw is an excellent player in those conditions plus he is a great option at the back of the lineout. Means the Paddy;s are going to have to shuffle their lineout around a lot to get decent ball.
26 Nov 2009, 15:19 pm
@nama1: That’s because underneath it all Tacitus is a big fat, KKK, white robe wearing racist who cannot just be happy that SA (the whole of SA, even the one’s Tac wants to whip and burn crosses at), have a great solid team representing them for the fixture against Ireland. He is like those plantation masters back in the day who feel incomplete unless he has used the N – word.
26 Nov 2009, 15:19 pm
Weather report 28/11/09: Cold to very cold day for Ireland with a strong north westerly smack from the springboks, there is a 80% chance that Ireland might not even come close with isolated instances where they will be a thread, 8 inces of irish **** is expected on the field that might make traveling difficult
26 Nov 2009, 15:20 pm
Best of luck boks….and Schalk….the bullet proof vest….dont forget…..
Fark me 82000 at Croke Park….Schalk is as brave as Luke facing down the Loftus faithful!!
26 Nov 2009, 15:21 pm
@grant10:
Sticks out like dogs b*ll*x.
and if it is his retirement match……and you can quote me on this……..(and I’ll ignore that horrendous JUSTICE4 righteous preaching humiliation just this once)…..so if it IS his last match…….then
I really hope he goes out with a win. He deserves it.
and he should. Because he’s no TH-prop (albeit better than you care to admit). And because by shifting him back to no2, replacing the best no2 on the Planet, then that would potentially cause real problems for selections going fwd (and admit that pushing Smit to TH was a mistake in the 1st place).
26 Nov 2009, 15:22 pm
@Breakdown Boy: #29
Danie’s heroics in the WC two years ago will mean nothing come Saturday. Why do you guys keep bringing that up?
26 Nov 2009, 15:23 pm
@puff:
If by stepping up you mean stop his opposite number EVERY time with rock solid defense, you won’t be disappointed.
Not even O’ Driscoll will get past him. He is our top defending centre.
If you mean dazzle us with intercepts and solo tries, then probably not. He will carry the ball up strongly many times in the game. Probably get over the advantage line each time, or take two defenders down with him. He might get his arms through the tackle a number of times.
And maybe even hit a clean gap once or twice in the game. Whether they result in tries or not, depends on the situation. In a tight game, they probably won’t.
That’s more than you can ask from a centre at this level of the game.
Wynand will do what he does best. In a tight, physical game, he is the guy you want at number 12. He is no twinkle toes, but he does his job solidly.
26 Nov 2009, 15:23 pm
I hate that “more to follow…” part cos of :
1 – they might have gotten the team wrong yet again
2 – listen to the k@k remarks again regarding PDV! how he succumed to pressure and ****! mark my words!
26 Nov 2009, 15:23 pm
Mtawarira
Smit
Botha
Botha
Matfield
Brussow
Smith
Spies
Van Der Merwe
Du Plessis
Van Der Linde
Rossouw
Bekker
Burger
Deysel
Potgieter
I can live with these forwards being in the Bok mix leading up to and during the RWC 2011.
Any other country, this list of fourteen players would be a virtual shoo-in.
But not sunny SA.
26 Nov 2009, 15:24 pm
Deysel is like the fat chick who you keep telling your friends is hot. When they finally meet her it’s a bitter disappointment.
Deysel is real big and looks like he should make a real impact. Once on the field he’s about as useful as a tub of butter. He loses the ball in the tackle and falls down at the first sign of making contact. They may as well have included Francois Hougaard as a forwards reserve because I think he’s more difficult to pin down.
26 Nov 2009, 15:26 pm
this is the best bok squad that has been fielded on tour.
I still would have preferred Bismarck and Deysel to start, with Schalk only coming on as a replacement for this particular match.
26 Nov 2009, 15:27 pm
if the irish beat this bok team, then they doing bladdy well.
26 Nov 2009, 15:29 pm
@WakaNathan: Ja…well lets see….but the sharks going to be an interesting place ….Plumtree will need to juggle carefully.
Just read on Bob Skinstads blogg that both CJ and BJ will come home if Provincial and Bok contracts are negotiated….interesting times…
26 Nov 2009, 15:29 pm
My team for 2011 RWC – What you peeps think?
1.BJ Botha
2.Smit
3.Beast
4.Bakkies
5.Matfield
6.Brussouw
7.Burger
8.Vermeulen
9.Du Preez
10.Steyn
11.Spies
12.Jean Div
13.Fourie
14.Nick Koster
15.Steyn
16.Bismark
17.CJ
18.Bekker
19.Deysel
20.Potgieter
21.Juan de Jongh
22.Ruaan Pienaar
26 Nov 2009, 15:31 pm
@ratel: Harsh….
26 Nov 2009, 15:31 pm
@rossoneri: dude forget Tacticus
dont give him the platform he’s looking for
26 Nov 2009, 15:32 pm
@dr dre: your props the wrong way round
26 Nov 2009, 15:32 pm
@ratel:
Couldn’t agree more with you.
Its all borne from the South African obsession with size in its rugby players. Deysel is totally overrated.
26 Nov 2009, 15:33 pm
@dr dre: If you don’t know the differnce between 1 an 3, you should not post teams for everyone to consider.
26 Nov 2009, 15:34 pm
John should take up hooker till the end of the world cup, sub him for Bussi each game at the 65min mark and then use the opportunity to bleed new leaders, like FDP, Smith, Bekker, Spies, Schalk? It won’t help if Matfield is interm captain as he will most likely leave come 2012.
But John should stay till the end of 2011 if we have any chance of the retaining the WC!
26 Nov 2009, 15:34 pm
@grant10:
are you sure?
Grantie, in your estimation what is the difference between the LH and TH prop in terms of what they are supposed to do and how?
26 Nov 2009, 15:34 pm
@Beertjie: ya .. sorry, typo.
what you think tho?
26 Nov 2009, 15:36 pm
@grant10: Grant, what is Bob’s blog called ?@Cyborg: Although I agree with you to a certain extent ( I prefer Vermeulen ), I think he had quite a good spell in the short time he was on the field against Italy.
26 Nov 2009, 15:36 pm
@dr dre: I saw 1 and 3 mixed up and Nick Koster and then i lost interest. Now it is too much trouble to go back to the previous page.
26 Nov 2009, 15:37 pm
@ratel: I agree, but he aint big, he is lean and muscular, that’s the problem, you need big, like Juan Smith big or D Vermeulen big. I really think Vermeulen deserved to be on this tour, he is a corbon copy of Juan Smith!
26 Nov 2009, 15:39 pm
@Beertjie: Nick Koster and Spies would make fantastic wings, both big lads and express pace.
Koster will play wing for Strmrs 2010 and Spies should be hurried back to wing to get in some gametime.
Spies is too dumb for 8th man and too clumsy … would be a great move.
Imagine fielding 5 loosies ?????
26 Nov 2009, 15:39 pm
Well done DIV! Correct selections all round!
Love the team, looking forward to having Jean off the bench for the last half an hour or so! Danie to have a big game at 8. JS at home at 2.
Great side
26 Nov 2009, 15:41 pm
@dr dre: That looks like a ‘whites only’ team boet and OMG Nick Koster are you severly mentally disabled? He has played maybe 2-3 games at wing his whole life? And you also booted two of the best wingers in rugby today for two loosies?
Sorry boet you must be making a joke.
26 Nov 2009, 15:41 pm
Hey Grant…?
What’s that smell?
The sweet smell of vindication….!! Enjoy…!!
Good team! Still would’ve preferred Jean to start but I got no complaints at all…
Kudos to Peter De Villiers… YDM!!!
26 Nov 2009, 15:41 pm
all you d!ckheads dissing John Smit – go fark yourselves. John is NOT going to retire, he is going to stay until the 2011 WC and after he’s captained us to another vitory he will hang up his boots.
I can’t believe how fickle you bunch are and that the best captian in the world doesn’t command more respect from you muppits.
! and BTW – GREAT TEAM for SAT !!
26 Nov 2009, 15:42 pm
@Tacitus: Wait for it, big leagues now.
26 Nov 2009, 15:43 pm
@ufo: Its not kudos to Helium at all, from the start he could have gotten it right.
Not hard, most of the bloggers here and public would have identified the right way to go with players and selections.
PDV is allowed to make mistake after mistake … yea, he learns from them, but better not to make them in the first place.
26 Nov 2009, 15:44 pm
Well u can’t get much stronger than this. This team don’t smash Ireland to smithereens then something seriously wrong in State of Denmark.
26 Nov 2009, 15:44 pm
@Tacitus: #37
We’ve seen him doing it in his previous 26 test matches. You don’t need to convince us. As long as you believe it, all is well.
What about the BB providing 5/7 back line players in the run on team? What has the world come to?
26 Nov 2009, 15:45 pm
I must say well done PDV for starting with Wynand and having JDV on the bench. Rugby is a team sport and it sends the wrong signals to the squad if outside players like JDV jump straight into the starting 15.
well done PDV – good selections all round!!.
26 Nov 2009, 15:46 pm
@dr dre: I’ll rather play Hagana and JPP on the wings. It is a pitty that Mapoe did not tour. Hopefully by 2011 he played himself into the squad.
Spies is fine at 8.
A big consideration is the 8 players on the bench that they want to implement with a compulsary frontrow. This could bring players like Kuun and Ashley Johnson into play, because the can play in the frontrow and are good looseforwards. This then effectively give you six other option for the bench. Then you can pick all your loosies
26 Nov 2009, 15:47 pm
Lekker lekker , nou gaan sluit die jaar of op ‘n hoe noot. Go Bokke !!
26 Nov 2009, 15:47 pm
@brains_trust: 100% correct. Smit is a better scrumming hooker than Bismarck, anyway.
26 Nov 2009, 15:47 pm
i tip Olivier to play his heart out and surprise a few.
Hopefully Steyn attacks the adv line a bit more with ball in hand and he and FdP do not hoist everything straight into the air.
26 Nov 2009, 15:47 pm
Eish I like that bench…rock solid!
26 Nov 2009, 15:48 pm
@Breakdown Boy: Spies was a wing and could do very well there again.
Koster is big and fast and lets watch him at wing next year.
IMO
26 Nov 2009, 15:48 pm
@cab: on Bobs Blog…so take his word for it….he is on tour with the players…
Tightheads the anchor….most physical of the scrumming positions….needs 1 st and foremost to keep his end up….and the scrum solidity normally copmes from that spot….
Massive difference in scrum technique and strength required….Os says he wouldnt of tried 3 because he felt he wasnt strong enough.
26 Nov 2009, 15:49 pm
great side, should beat any side in the world. front row looks very solid with j s back at hooker.back line could be even better than it is but good to see some players get rewarded for having a good season. dont know much about their no 10 so hopefully we do a ciprianni on him and ruin his career while we re at it. my only worry is that the boys are tired but i think they ll be up for this one.
ps: how can the media call this test tri nation champs vs six nations champs. bit unfair i think seen as though the boks have had a bone smashing season. lets play that comp at the end of the six nations when our boys are fresh.
go bokke forever
26 Nov 2009, 15:49 pm
Its a pity Pdv hasnt shown as much continuity of selection with Kankowski as he did when Spies first came back after his ‘lung disease’.
Spies couldnt catch a cold let alone hold onto the pill for months yet he was chosen week after week and has slowly turned into the premier no 8 in SA.
Come back to SA and actually get some game time kankow, show the S15 what real eighth man play is all about.
26 Nov 2009, 15:49 pm
@Beertjie: hah .. I like it.
JPP is uninspiring and not involved enough at all. Habana makes the guy look very very ordinary.
Imagine Koster and Spies as wings though. mmmm
26 Nov 2009, 15:50 pm
@CharlesM: superrugby…follow links
26 Nov 2009, 15:50 pm
Grant10 will be surprised/happy that Smit is starting at 2.
26 Nov 2009, 15:50 pm
@dr dre: #62
Your use of that cheesy nickname for PdV says it all…
Thing is bud… that’s my comment and my opinion… and I’ll repeat it too…
Kudos to Peter De Villiers….! YDM!! You De Man!!
Doc… Springbok coaches prior to PdV had a trait of being stubborn and the more the pressure the more stubborn they became…
But you’re right… PdV has made massive mistakes…
It was a mistake to beat the Lions, and Win the 3N, and wipe the ABs 3 zip… serious mistakes that he mustn’t be allowed to get away with…
26 Nov 2009, 15:51 pm
I started at hooker once.
Didn’t last long.
26 Nov 2009, 15:52 pm
@brains_trust: #65
“…it sends the wrong signals to the squad if outside players like JDV jump straight into the starting 15.”
It apparently did not sent out that signal just two weeks ago.
26 Nov 2009, 15:52 pm
@grant10:
ah i see, its about keeping his end up.
and this must be why Smit is NEVER EVER a TH…hmmm.
quite technical.
Anyway, bladdy strong bok side, if Ireland win here they doing bladdy well.
26 Nov 2009, 15:52 pm
@ufo: LOL….Ja…i had a massive side bet with a mate that Smit would not see out season at 3…hence my Death Row chirp earlier….if PDV didnt do the deal i was down a small fortune!!LOL
26 Nov 2009, 15:53 pm
@brains_trust: no one is dissing Smit!
26 Nov 2009, 15:54 pm
@ufo: I dont have a problem with your opinion at all …
All good dude. Your completely confused and delusional .. but … 100% !
26 Nov 2009, 15:54 pm
And could you please actually make a tackle and not be bounced off Schalk.
I’ve never seen so much intent yet so little effect from one person as i did from Burger during the France test.
26 Nov 2009, 15:55 pm
@grant10:
what you talkin about you said he’d be retired by now…
26 Nov 2009, 15:55 pm
@Dawn:
can I lure you out of retirement…???
farking smilies…
26 Nov 2009, 15:55 pm
@nama1: who jumped straight into the test 15 on the week of the test?
26 Nov 2009, 15:57 pm
@Dawn: You thought it was for weeing out of only?
26 Nov 2009, 15:57 pm
@cab: And i stand by that assertion….the scrum always looked capable of imploding…..
But its an old debate….
26 Nov 2009, 15:58 pm
@dr dre:
cool Doc…
it’s always always good…
26 Nov 2009, 15:58 pm
@ufo: hehe .. all good.
26 Nov 2009, 15:59 pm
@John Galt:
If I had to guess, I’d say it’s because Spies doesn’t sport a David Hasselhoff hairstyle and a Rory Kockott attitude.
Or it could be that he saw more potential in Spies than in the Hoff.
Either of those would seem like a reasonable explanation.
If you don’t buy either, go with Jake White’s view which is that Kankowski doesn’t have the upper body strength necessary for test rugby. Now you may or may not like Jake White (I don’t, particularly), but he seemed to be proven right when the French were ripping balls out of Kanko’s understrength arms at will.
26 Nov 2009, 15:59 pm
@cab: If he had stayed at 3 i stand by that too….
And lets not rule out the possibility as yet….a super 14 to get through ….and although i wish him well….Bissy may have other ideas?
26 Nov 2009, 16:00 pm
@grant10:
90 regso, stand by it, dont wiggle out like before when decrying Smit and then he comes back with yet another worldclass performance.
26 Nov 2009, 16:01 pm
@grant10: Thanks Grant@nama1: I think you’re wrong. 3 injured guys in the front row came back home – yet CJ did not start against France. Strauss and du Preez only started the week after that.
26 Nov 2009, 16:01 pm
After the Tri-Nations there were many on this site calling for Juan Smith’s head… I wonder how many have noticed that he is one of the key players for the Boks and that our pack has been going downhill without him…
26 Nov 2009, 16:01 pm
@grant10:
How classic is this given what we both agreed on and spoke about yesterday..???
‘We now have a lot of options and can opt for a horse for courses approach,’ the Bok coach said. ‘The front row we’ve selected is perfect for how we want to play against Ireland.’
26 Nov 2009, 16:01 pm
who knows what happens to scrum on sat, let us see, i think that greenhorn healey is pretty useful and is superb in the tightloose too.
26 Nov 2009, 16:02 pm
@grant10: Smit must play TH in the S14. More experience and exposure.
26 Nov 2009, 16:02 pm
@John Galt:
That was Ras Dumisane’s fault.
26 Nov 2009, 16:04 pm
JacoKanko don’t belong in a test side proved it number of times already. Spies vs Jvn I take J.vn everytime too.
Smit at 2 only place for him to be. 3 is one bridge over the horizon
26 Nov 2009, 16:04 pm
@panniepeet: Under-valued player, he brings a hard edge. Mind you Deysel also brings that edge, but lacks Juan’s lineout presence. With Danie at 8, we don’t really need another lineout forward though!!
26 Nov 2009, 16:05 pm
@grant10: #82
Enjoy your well gotten gains… Good dinner and wine for the Missus is a must!!
26 Nov 2009, 16:06 pm
@Ratel Brussow (MSIUR): Absolutely under-valued – does all the donkey work very cleverly… Others like Danie try hard but, not nearly as good as Juan
26 Nov 2009, 16:09 pm
@brains_trust: #88
My mistake. CJ and Strauss started from the bench. Sorry. I misread your post.
26 Nov 2009, 16:09 pm
@cab: seems the only 1 wiggling here is you Cab?
26 Nov 2009, 16:09 pm
no francois steyn!!! Dankie our pdv….
26 Nov 2009, 16:09 pm
@panniepeet: Watch Deysel clean rucks though, up there with Juan and Bakkies. 3rd best in country, above Danie at cleaning. BJ also good at cleaning. Really believe Deysel deserved a chance to start. He has done everything the hard way this tour and grabbed every opportunity. Hope he gets at least 20 mins.
26 Nov 2009, 16:09 pm
see Dennis Leamy is ruled out…
26 Nov 2009, 16:09 pm
Hey guys, just a few intereting stats i copied out of an article in the guardian on the current state of rugby. Its hardcase it just shows how kick dominated rugby is now!! The two top teams in each hemisphere are the ones that hardly pass the ball!!
“South Africa have not complained. they have been the most successful side this year, beating the Lions and then winning the Tri-Nations. Yet in the first Test against the Lions they made 49 passes as a team: the visiting scrum-half, Mike Phillips, gave 76 passes. In the Tri-Nations the Springboks won two matches with only 39% of possession and in one of them, against New Zealand, they made 43 passes in all and their two centres touched the ball eight times compared with their opponents’ 43. The All Blacks’ front row made three times as many passes as South Africa’s three-quarters and full-back combined while in the Six Nations Ireland were bottom in the number of passes made and the rate of passing. The moral is low risk, great reward.”
26 Nov 2009, 16:11 pm
@Yetirat: Thats what a lot of us been saying for months now.
Yes, perhaps PDV read the site!LOL
26 Nov 2009, 16:12 pm
didn’t see the other thread… below the “fold”…
26 Nov 2009, 16:12 pm
Unbelievable how some “experts” is running Kankowski into the ground. Was he the only underperformer in the France test? Schalk Burger went flying after two attempted tackles, but not a word about it. What about Potties brilliant performances againts the English club sides? Didn’t even know he was actually on the field. Overrated player! How can he’s selection be justified? And Danie Rossouw had one good pass in the game against Italy, no word about him knocking on. Pure bias from bloggers on this site. Kankowski was performing brilliant when the Sharks dominated and he had go forward ball. That’s when he could be dangerous. But to be retrieving the whole time, there’s no chance of making an impact as a loosie – except if your name starts with an H.
26 Nov 2009, 16:12 pm
@Ratel Brussow (MSIUR): LOL…okay boet
26 Nov 2009, 16:15 pm
@Black and blue:
simple solution…
Kankowski should change his name to Hyan…!!
26 Nov 2009, 16:16 pm
@Black and blue: Agree 100%. If your name is Schalk or Potgieter you can do no wrong. Kanko needs to work on his tight game. He will improve and be back. Starting trio should have been:
Ratel, Deysel, Danie with Kanko on bench for when it opens up and Schalk if you want 2 loosies?? Pottie doesn’t deserve his cap. He’s a quota selection.
26 Nov 2009, 16:18 pm
@ufo: ja….for sure….thanks spaceman
26 Nov 2009, 16:20 pm
@panniepeet: agree…Juan Smith at blindside flank a must….banker in the lineout and brings a hard edge…with Bakkies the 2 are essential.
26 Nov 2009, 16:20 pm
@dr dre: you counting habs as a bull?
26 Nov 2009, 16:21 pm
@grant10:
lol, if u say so grant.
26 Nov 2009, 16:23 pm
@Tacitus:
Please, Spies was thrown around like a toddler in a playground when he came back from his injury.
He could barely hang on to a damn thing.
Added to this, Spies apparently has the mental strength of a 12 year old girl, which certainly doesnt help his team mates when the chips are down during a test match.
And why have the strength of 10 men in your arms when you have the strenght of french football player in your legs. Cos all you ever see with Spies is him falling over.
26 Nov 2009, 16:23 pm
the best hooker in the world, and quite probably the most destructive player in the tightloose, is now sitting on the bench.
lets hope we dont win the scrums and lose the match.
or even worse lose the scrums and lose the match.
26 Nov 2009, 16:27 pm
@cab: are you suggesting Smit be dropped then?
26 Nov 2009, 16:28 pm
No specialist 8?????????????????????????
Retread Rossouw at 8 backed up by two flanks with 1 cap between them.
Fark me!!!!
26 Nov 2009, 16:30 pm
@grant10: Given everyone is fit and on form, I would start Smit at 3 and move him to hooker later if needed. Might seem madness but reasons are:
1. JS normally lags off at 60 minutes. JS will not play whole match at 2, so he has to move to 3 at some point. I would rather have him playing TH when he is in good shape and can scrum better.
2. Insurance. If JS is moved to 3 at end of game and suddenly our scrum comes under pressure we would be powerless to change (no subs, like when Carstens came on!!). With a strong scrumming TH on bench we can always bting him on earlier.
3. Bismarck at his best is awesome in the loose. Most games this is very important so play majority with him starting. If a team is known for its scrumming attack maybe not.
For these reasons and for the simple reason that there are no other THs playing in SA, I would want JS to play TH domestically and improve. We know he is a quality hooker and won’t let us down.
26 Nov 2009, 16:30 pm
@kevin w: Dewalt Potgieter played at 8 often for Bulls…and a damn fine 8 too!
26 Nov 2009, 16:30 pm
hey lets all put provincial bias aside, some things are just obvious:
1. kankowski has found his ceiling as a very good currie cup / s14 player, but no more
2. john smit may not be the best hooker in the world, but he is not too far off
3. the impact john smit has as a captain is massive
4. in the modern squad game of rugby, there is space for the best hooker in the world (Bis) and the best captain in the world, it just strengthen the squad to have an 80 min mix as per the requirements on the day
26 Nov 2009, 16:31 pm
@grant10: What idiot would suggest that?
26 Nov 2009, 16:32 pm
@Ratel Brussow (MSIUR): suits me Ratel….Stormers look forward to Smit at 3….far more scared of him as a 2…that i assure you.
26 Nov 2009, 16:32 pm
@John Galt:
Glad you got that off your chest.
Now get your boy to hold onto the ball in contact, and maybe he’ll get another shot at a Bok cap in future.
26 Nov 2009, 16:32 pm
Agreed John Galt. Spies got how many chances after missing tackles, knocking on, and not being able to pic up from the bass of the scrum. His work rate improved tremendously but the basic skills of a top-class 8 are still lacking. Kankowski needs to up his work rate, I suspect he’ll never wear the Green and Gold again.
Ratel: 100% with you on this one. Kankowski is the big scapegoat, which is really unfair. Give him a chance when our scrum issues are sorted out. Brussow is such a brilliant player!!!
26 Nov 2009, 16:32 pm
@grant10: I’ve watched Dewald Potgieter play since he was about 16 – he is no saviour at 8 in an international test against the 6 Nations Champs!
He might be one day, but he won’t be on Saturday – there is a little thing called experience.
26 Nov 2009, 16:33 pm
@grant10: In wet heavy fields? Rag doll approaching.
26 Nov 2009, 16:33 pm
@Ratel Brussow (MSIUR): Seems cab not happy….i am trying to get clarity on his position
26 Nov 2009, 16:33 pm
Kanko is a fine selection for our hard NH fields, but against France, Ireland and England in their NH – is a definite no-no.
The reason why Rossouw played well at 8 vs Italy and has been the pick of the forwards on the 2006 EOY tour is that he suits these conditions.
26 Nov 2009, 16:35 pm
@grant10: Boks before domestic always.
26 Nov 2009, 16:35 pm
@grant10:
you know my position, i support the ou doose, always have.
26 Nov 2009, 16:37 pm
@Tacitus:
Always a pleasure shooting the breeze Tac.
Unfortunately i must be offski.
26 Nov 2009, 16:37 pm
Ou doose?
26 Nov 2009, 16:38 pm
the pack we are selecting on sat is not the most mobile by any stretch, but its a good choice for the NH conditions, they a pack of grizzled vertans tho matfield is prob unlikely to contribute much in the tightloose – he ususally gets thru a helluva lot of tackles if not directing play.
26 Nov 2009, 16:38 pm
@cab: sorry talent doesn’t wear a raincoat … same was said about many players like Brent Russell and Butch James. NH doesn’t suit their game.
Kanko was the polyfilla for Spies against the fired up French – Rossouw played against Italy. Fairytales aside – they still kak as an international standard.
26 Nov 2009, 16:38 pm
@Black and blue: i been saying all year…the loosies are being unfairly criticised …they are playing behind a weak scrum…very tough….
I agree with a lot what you saying
26 Nov 2009, 16:39 pm
@kevin w: okay…i have watched him only this year…impresses me….as does Deysel….
26 Nov 2009, 16:40 pm
@kevin w:
they’re backs, largely irrelevant in the NH imo, the forwards its an attitude thing as mich as size and kanko is a greyhound not a ploughhorse.
26 Nov 2009, 16:41 pm
@cab: agree…100%…squad was chosen poorly initially…and certainly not with a view to conditions
26 Nov 2009, 16:41 pm
@Ratel Brussow (MSIUR): good man…wish all were like that!
26 Nov 2009, 16:42 pm
its muddy, dirty and farken ugly up north – we need the players to fit – CJ, BJ, Daniesaurus, Bakkies, Deysel, Bismarck, etc – the more the merrier. Its not so much as rugby, as opposed to mud wrestling…
26 Nov 2009, 16:42 pm
@cab: But seriously…do you agree with his switch or would you have kept him at 3?
I am sincerely interested…
26 Nov 2009, 16:44 pm
@cab: fair point, i’ll wait and see … but i am a firm believer of talent opposed to conditions – forwards or backs.
26 Nov 2009, 16:44 pm
‘Kanko got a bump against Italy and we’ve decided to manage him,’ said De Villiers, even though Kankowski trained with the Boks on Thursday. ‘It’s going to be a tough Super 14 so we have to think of the player as well.’
“MANAGE”, what a nice way of saying dropped.
26 Nov 2009, 16:46 pm
Barney has got more chance seeing out 80 at hooker than at 3 which is much more demanding…his lineout throwing is a huge bonus… quite frankly if bismark is upset I don’t care ….
grant have you booked us in at nobu yet…don’t forget to make sure that they have the 95 Dom in stock….
26 Nov 2009, 16:47 pm
@grant10:
I think its a very difficult decision, but probably the correct one from a rugby purity viewpoint, where our best scrumming TH has been selected.
the interesting thing tho is that the irish this year are not renowkned for their scrum, so of all the games to do it, its a strange one.
I thought they were very brave and even silly to select Smit at 3 to begin with, but in retrospect I believe it was alot smarter decision then i gave them credit for. Bismarck is just so important and Smit binds it together – but that was when foreign-based player could not be selected and no local SA TH’s were putting their hands up either – if they now changing policy and CJ and CJ become available that changes the whole dynamic.
26 Nov 2009, 16:48 pm
Danie will be outplayed by Heaslip – he is probaly in the pub already after hearing the announcement that he is up against a veteran retread no 8.
Schalk will have to move to 8 and then either of the replacement loosies will improve their cap quota by 100% while Kanko is saved for the Super 14. Laughable!!
26 Nov 2009, 16:48 pm
@cab:
The Paddies play a loose game for a NH side – need some runners too against them to keep em’in check.
26 Nov 2009, 16:50 pm
Grant: We are really blessed with some excellent loosies but there’s no way in hell they can shine with our pack being driven back. Maybe BJ, and Smit back at 2 could change this.
Just think it would be detrimental to our cause to try and ignore Bismarck’s contrubution this year. Heinrich wasn’t the only one stealing balls, Du Plessis did the same – especially in the Tri Nations.
Why is Teichmann still rated so highly? He was a classic 8, like Morne du Plessis. Potties and Danie do not bring that sort of skill to the table.
26 Nov 2009, 16:53 pm
@Black and blue: Last paragraph is spot on! Although Potgieter may be there one day, but not Saturday – it’s a gamble.
26 Nov 2009, 16:54 pm
We have Pote Human first choice and Teichmann being saved for the Currie Cup … it’s classic!
26 Nov 2009, 16:57 pm
@Black and blue:
the loosies on tour have been part of the problem…
26 Nov 2009, 16:57 pm
@kevin w:
lol
26 Nov 2009, 16:57 pm
@gunther: Done boet!
26 Nov 2009, 16:59 pm
the best loosetrio on this tour imo is:
6. Brussow 7. Deysel 8. Burger
26 Nov 2009, 17:00 pm
Well done PDV! Great side from what you have to work with.
My confidence just rose.
26 Nov 2009, 17:02 pm
@cab: cool….ja…i complained bitterley in the beginning and my objections were based on Os initial view.
At least we know if push comes to shove smit can do a hospital job there….Gunthers post hits nail on head for me….
26 Nov 2009, 17:02 pm
@cab: and Kankowski on the bench.
Perhaps Snor will introduce Bekker at 8 – boy has got pace nd vision of a loosie and any opposition lineout will be cr@pping themselves with Vic, Bakkies and Bekker lurking!
26 Nov 2009, 17:03 pm
CAB: What has Burger done on this tour?? He was bumped off twice against France and that’s it. I rate him highly as a player, but he’s no 8.
26 Nov 2009, 17:04 pm
@Black and blue: interesting perspective….i have felt for Spies and Kanko this year…it hasnt been easy behind that scrum
26 Nov 2009, 17:08 pm
ya Brussow Deysel Burger would be the way to go Saturday. Not Roussouw. I reckon we got the whole mix wrong from start.
Against France should have played it tight and against Irish loosened up. Not other way round.
Also once Bj tires then Cj has to come on not switch Smit to 3. That would be a mistake. When Bis comes on then Smit will have to go to 1 and Cj to 3.
Pdv reckoned he didn’t need depth at 8 because he’s got Spies and Kanko to call on. Now he finds Watson or Jvn or Vermeulen would have all been far better bets than either those two especially in Nh conditions. Shows how quickly prejudicial blindness can bite you in the ***.
26 Nov 2009, 17:11 pm
@skopskiet: 100% Skop….my thinking exactly….rather Smit to loosehead….not neccessary to play him at 3 in this set up and bench.
26 Nov 2009, 17:11 pm
That impact was felt at especially 9 and 10 (especially the France game). Both these chaps were outstanding most of the year, but were really having bad days. Morne’s game against Italy (and France) was close to being a shocker.
26 Nov 2009, 17:13 pm
@Black and blue:
yeah, Burger had the worst game i have seen in a long time against france, but he’s been off for too long, he was not match-sharp and his lack of timing showed, he still is a class player, i think he’s an ideal 8, esp for NH conditions of away games in NZ.
26 Nov 2009, 17:14 pm
oh sherbert, there’s no hougaard too! Yippie!!!!!
26 Nov 2009, 17:15 pm
Very good side!
WO at 12 was the best option. Jean will get a run. Loosies also good. Rossouw at 8 will ensure solid line out ball, and he is the ideal player in a tight, forward orientated game. Best possible frontrow.
To all the guys predicting John’s retirement; he will be the Bok captain in the next WC! Live with it!
26 Nov 2009, 17:31 pm
i want the boks to moer these paddys, these are the same okes that said in july that they need to release their most hardened criminals and slap a kit on them & put them on the field with only one instruction – “**** up brian habana”. Let’s see now what they have to say!
They wrote that pdv is “defensive, arrogant & paranoid”!!!!!!
26 Nov 2009, 17:34 pm
@skopskiet:
I disagree. The best way to disrupt the Irish backs is by destroying their forwards. Although not a favourite of mine, I reckon Danie’s power at 8 and lineout skill is our best choice in the conditions anticipated. Schalk was always suspect picking up at the back and in these conditions it’s not going to improve.
26 Nov 2009, 17:36 pm
@Transformation:
apparently SA has the highest number of psychopathic serial killers per capita anywhere in the world, its not even a close run thing. are you think a jail exchange program?
26 Nov 2009, 17:37 pm
don’t get what all the drama around Roussow is?
He had an excellent game last weekend.
Deysel is way overrated and Potgieter is by far the more dynamic player.
Kankoski is a little unlucky in my opinion and I do not believe that he has had as bad a tour as many are making out.
1st prize would still be to have Spies availible though.
could be worse, imagine having watson or even vermulean debuting.
26 Nov 2009, 17:49 pm
Just want to mention what my thoughts are regarding our centres. I feel that JdV is our best 12, and JF our best 13. I think most will agree with that. WO, in my opinion, is a better 13 than 12. He likes to go on his own, and imo not the best distributer of the ball. I think that he should be back-up for Fourie.
Now for 12. Many people will disagree with me on this one, but I would love to see Ruan Pienaar settling in this position. When Francois Steyn was moved to 12 in 2007, I said that he should play at 15, and Pienaar at 12. Ruan is solid on defence, a great distributer of the ball, and he can kick. He should be back-up for Jean.
My 1st 15 and the players that should be on standby:
15) F.Steyn – Z.Kirchner
P.Spies – D.Potgieter
14) JP.Pieterson – Lionel Mapoe
13) J.Fourie – W.Olivier
12) J.de Villiers – R.Pienaar
11) B.Habana – J.Nokwe
10) M.Steyn – W.De Waal
9) F.du Preez – H. Adams
7) J.Smith – J.Deysel
6) H.Brussouw – S.Burger
5) V.Matfield – A.Bekker
4) B.Botha – D.Rossouw
3) BJ.Botha – WP. Nel
2) J.Smit – B.du Plessis
1) B.Maretariwa – W.du Preez
26 Nov 2009, 17:55 pm
The cynic in me, wanted JDV to jump straight into the starting line up ahead of WO, just so that the Blue Bulls players can start sulking and bitching but more importantly just so that WO can feel how its like to be a black player in SA Rugby.
26 Nov 2009, 18:01 pm
to carry on the debate whether we should open up Springbok selection to those playing overseas.
Check out rugby365.com. Found these stats of the French Top 14. Quite hectic! Most clubs only averaging about 50-60% home grown talent. Premiership must be on par or worse I reckon.
Club percentages of French players:
Albi: 35/46 = 76%
Bayonne: 22/35 = 63%
Biarritz; 22/38 = 58%
Bourgoin: 25/40 = 62,5%
Brive: 14/36 = 39%
Castres: 28/41 = 68%
Clermont: 20/37 = 54%
Montauban: 22/38 = 58%
Montpellier: 31/45 = 69%
Racing-Mètro: 13/38 = 34%
Stade Français: 23/38 = 61%
Perpignan: 28/40 = 70%
Toulon: 15/44 = 34%
Toulouse: 28/39 = 72%
26 Nov 2009, 18:03 pm
@Johan Fourie: Jeepers Johan, the fact that Willem De Waal makes your lists makes me wonder what you have been drinking/smoking/main lining?
26 Nov 2009, 18:03 pm
@Oubaas2009:
all currie cup teams
95% south african with the odd zimbabwean,namibian,american
26 Nov 2009, 18:05 pm
@XhosaKid: and so two wrongs can make a right. That is a mature way of resolving a problem!
Thing is … Wynand would actually accept that Jean is better, and not feel he actually was previously disadvantaged when he wasn’t.
26 Nov 2009, 18:07 pm
@mbaxman93: and don’t forget the Lions. They now have an Egyptian!
26 Nov 2009, 18:08 pm
@Oubaas2009: Consider populations, sports prefernces etc. A stat will always just be a … stat! Interpreted to suit the person putting it ot there.
SA probably has more home grown footballers in their premier league than Englan does. Who has a problem?
26 Nov 2009, 18:16 pm
Good team. Pleased that WO gets in ahead of JdV even if I think JdV is a better player. WO is staying in SA and will be playing rugby here. So that is fair. Just pleased to see JdV as back up there what a relief.
Would have had Burger on the bench and Deysel to start. If Burger gets a yellow and puts pressure on the team we will struggle. Brussow as not as affective with Burger next to him against France. Also think Deysel fetches and will take some load off of Brussow. See Potties on the bench probably there to cover Danie and Deysel to cover Burger.
Pleased that Bakkies made the team and not injured.
Go Bokke.
26 Nov 2009, 18:22 pm
@Johan Fourie: 178 – Johan, Good team that and also your 2nd team should probably have been the Dirt Tracker team to travel. We probably would have won both those club games. Will go as far to say we would have won both those club games. Your test side we probably would have beaten France too.
26 Nov 2009, 18:35 pm
@kevin w: yeah right I’m sure he would…
Anyway, as I had sad, the cynic in me
26 Nov 2009, 18:42 pm
@Oubaas2009: Wie anders het ons op loskakel? Daar is ‘n paar jongmanne wat deurkom, maar is hulle reg vir toets rugby? Moet net nie Peter Grant voorstel nie asb!
26 Nov 2009, 18:52 pm
@Puma: Puma, you are a Shark man. What do you think of Ruan at 12? I know everyone is shunting the poor guy around, and that he said that he preferres to play 9.
26 Nov 2009, 18:55 pm
@XhosaKid: Kill that cynic in you quickly! It is like a cancer! Get rid of it!
26 Nov 2009, 19:06 pm
@Johan Fourie: no Joha. Will never work….he is a 9….and doesent want to play 10….mention 12 Ruan will blow a gaskett!
26 Nov 2009, 19:08 pm
Thank you God.
On Thanksgiving Day we get a great Bok team. Run On & Bench.
26 Nov 2009, 19:12 pm
@SodaJoe: LOL
26 Nov 2009, 19:14 pm
@SodaJoe:
don’t choke on your turkey…
26 Nov 2009, 19:20 pm
I reckon this will be the last game for Wynand in a springbok jumper. Don’t get me wrong i think the kid is talented.Its just that he had countless opportunities but never grabbed it with both hands(excuse the pun). He simply isn’t international rugby material. Its all fine and good hiding behind a strong bulls foward game plan but he can’t expect Matfield and co to do 50% of his work for him. I feel this is the biggest mistake the sprongbok brains trust has made. This is an important game because the winner here gets team of the year. Our chances of winning just took a major dive………i feel for Kanko though, he is an excellent impact player.
26 Nov 2009, 19:23 pm
@gunther: Shunts. Here’s the truth. I dig Thanksgiving – in a totally overblown commercial universe where Halloween is the second biggest retail “holiday”- TG is just a great quiet time. Where I can blog with impunity.
But the bigger thing is this – I truly hate Turkey. Honestly. Overrated.
But I dig a dop.
As you know.
So some good rooi wyn and I am good to go.
And this is a great team, honestly, Boks by 8.
26 Nov 2009, 19:24 pm
@puma: ok good enough Wynand stayed in Sa. It’s only because He never got a decent offer from europe. Jean left because the offer was good and because He is the best. Its no need to make emotional decisions. Jean deserved to play this year out because of his loyalty to wp and the stormers this year.
26 Nov 2009, 19:26 pm
@XhosaKid: ha ha ha ha ha…well to be fair, i think meisiekind has been a quota before, all of the first 20 oh his Tests.
26 Nov 2009, 19:26 pm
Danie at 8. Finally I get what i want
26 Nov 2009, 19:28 pm
@Wezwp: Worth discussing after the game. I think you may just have to eat your words. The Chippendale may have his breakout game.
Ryan is the Ruan Pienaar of looseforwards. Actually that does Ruan an injustice – although being the fastest sideways runner on earth he is not a Springbok quality 8.
26 Nov 2009, 19:29 pm
@grant10: But is he good enough to be in the Bok set-up as a scrummie? He might be our 2nd best 10, but I don’t think he is our 2nd best 9. Look at guys like Adams, Vermaak, Joubert, Hougaard, Rory… Or will he just play of the bench as impact player, or hope that FdP gets injured? I don’t know, I just think 12 will be his best position. Maybe I’m wrong.
26 Nov 2009, 19:31 pm
@Johan Fourie: Boet, gifted as he is I don’t think he is a 12.
I agree that he is a better 10 than 9.
Where he broke my heart was at 15, where he has every attribute, including great genes, to be world class and he buggered it up.
26 Nov 2009, 19:31 pm
@SodaJoe:
and pumpkin pie?
26 Nov 2009, 19:32 pm
@SodaJoe:
its in his head…
26 Nov 2009, 19:33 pm
@gunther: a culinary travesty. Almost the worst food on the planet.
26 Nov 2009, 19:33 pm
@soda Will you please wake me up when Wynand has his breakout game. He’s good but we need jean there. Wo is very overated in my opinion.
26 Nov 2009, 19:36 pm
@Transformation: According to the definition of “quota”, there can be no way that WO could be classified as a “quota” player. There are waaaayyyy to many “white” guys in the Bok side. Should you disagree, feel free to mention it to PdV; he will tune you right!
26 Nov 2009, 19:36 pm
@Wezwp: WEZ – I have had the same opinion, honestly, but I just can’t argue with his S14 and CC form.
And defensively he is pretty much without peer at 12, and I include Frans Steyn there, and Jean obvioulsy very good. WO can moer your underpants off. And I think we need that on Saturday.
26 Nov 2009, 19:36 pm
I dont think many of the bloggers see the value of Juan Smith. That guy is a springbok through and through. What i like about him is his very versatile and does everything for you, even steals opposition line out balls.
26 Nov 2009, 19:37 pm
@SodaJoe: \
once and never again…
26 Nov 2009, 19:37 pm
@gunther: Kills me. The Darryl Cullinan of rugby. Blessed talents.
Ruan is the bunnie of all kicking tees.
26 Nov 2009, 19:39 pm
@SodaJoe: So where do you think this leaves him then? Bench?
26 Nov 2009, 19:40 pm
@SodaJoe:
agreed he is the sort of client a sports psychologist dreams of…
26 Nov 2009, 19:40 pm
@Wezwp: Completely agree. I most underrated Springbok ever. No weaknesses at all. I am glad hes is resting, Schalk should also have been left at home. And Adi – fk up their careers.
Test rugby is so hard you really need to be 100% fit, 95% won’t cut it.
26 Nov 2009, 19:41 pm
Playing injured fks up their careers.
26 Nov 2009, 19:41 pm
@SodaJoe: Well said!
@Wezwp: On that one I have to agree! Juan is a valuable part of our pack. We missed him against France.
26 Nov 2009, 19:41 pm
@Johan Fourie:
it leaves him in pyjamas in a white room clawing the ceiling…
26 Nov 2009, 19:42 pm
@Johan Fourie: Yes.
Morne is our 10 and FdP our 9.
As a bench player he can play 9,10,15. Hard to beat.
26 Nov 2009, 19:42 pm
@soda would you honestly say wynand would fit into the top 5 category in the 2009 s14?……..because i wont, there was way better inside centers. He had a good s14 but it wasnt great. I personally think Zane played a bigger part in the bulls s14 success.
26 Nov 2009, 19:43 pm
@gunther: He’s a guy who needs to go to France after 2011, get a life, get a bird, get some respite, and he will come back a rugby genius.
26 Nov 2009, 19:45 pm
@SodaJoe:
agreed a change of perspective might work wonders..
26 Nov 2009, 19:46 pm
@Wezwp: Disagree again. He was imho the best 12 in the S14. Most of the composite teams had him there too. And that was with JdV playing for the Stormers.
Barnes maybe close (great rugby player).
But Saturday is his time, otherwise I am with you – not a Bok quality. But as I said, I think he’s going to be terrific.
26 Nov 2009, 19:47 pm
I wish Roy would fix the arrow thingies.
26 Nov 2009, 19:48 pm
If you want Pienaar and M. Steyn on the field same time then play M. Steyn at 12 and Pienaar at 10 not the other way around. Otherwise shift M. Steyn to 15.
Wc back line could read something like this
S. Pretorius / Hougaard
Pienaar / M. Steyn
Habana / Mapoe
M. Steyn / De Jongh / WO
De Jongh / J. Fourie
J. Fourie / JPP
Kirchner / Viljoen / F. Steyn
26 Nov 2009, 19:48 pm
I m taking dogs out for a walk, probably see you all later.
26 Nov 2009, 19:48 pm
@Johan Fourie: dont try and accomodate players Johan. …thats the cancer in our rugby
26 Nov 2009, 19:49 pm
@Wezwp: WO had a very good S14. I have to say that his form at the Bulls were far better than with the Boks. Some players find the step up from provincial/S14 to test rugby harder than others, for various reasons. Only time will tell if he will make it at test level. Look at a guy like FdP. He was brilliant at the Bulls, but it took him a good 20 tests before he really settled in at the Boks. At one time Ricky was geniunly better than him. Today he is by far the best in the world. As I say, only time will tell.
26 Nov 2009, 19:54 pm
@Johan Fourie:
I think putting Ruan at 12 is a good idea too but not at test level yet. It did wonders for Wilkinson and Carter’s careers at 10.
26 Nov 2009, 19:54 pm
@Johan Fourie: #189
If I remember correctly some bloggers on this site kept going on about how we now have two “world class” fly halves after the Lion’s tour. That was after RP’s performance in the first test and Morne’s performance as his replacement in the second test. Now suddenly the cupboard looks bare again.
That is what happens if you give someone super hero status after only one or two good performances.
Grant 10
I see on the news that JS says that he thinks it is too early to determine that the experiment (he at TH) is a failure. He foresees that he will play there again and only play hooker on occasions.
26 Nov 2009, 19:55 pm
@grant10: Exactly, that is what I’m trying to say. I think he could be a very good 12, but I dont rate him as one of our 2 best 9′s. If he is willing, and that is vital, he should start at the Sharks at 12, Hernandez at 10, Rory at 9, Jacobs at 13. Not trying to make a place for him in the Bok side, but we are thin at 12. JdV wont be around for long. Ruan is a great player to have on the bench, but it is not good for his career.
26 Nov 2009, 19:55 pm
Peter Grant is a better no.12 in my opinion.
26 Nov 2009, 19:55 pm
@lightie: i tell you here and now Ruan will hve a heart attack….he only wants 9 ….
26 Nov 2009, 19:57 pm
@Johan Fourie: He will never attempt it….he will go overseas boet…believe me on this one.
26 Nov 2009, 19:57 pm
@Wezwp: agree
26 Nov 2009, 19:57 pm
@lightie: Yip. In the modern game, especially in NZ and Aus, 10 and 12 are virtually the same. Look at Carter/McCallister, and Ghitao/Barnes.
26 Nov 2009, 19:58 pm
@nama1: Smit back at 3 and i will have a heart attack!!LOL
26 Nov 2009, 19:58 pm
Ruan has the potential to be the worlds best no9. All this moving around is f@cking his head up. Hes not a utility player just simply a no.9
26 Nov 2009, 20:01 pm
@nama1: Nama….being a Stormers and WP fan i look forward to Smit at 3 next season….against us….
Idiotic to even think he can play there…..BJ and CJ coming hack….Buys and WP Nel walking the talk….writing is so on the wall…
26 Nov 2009, 20:01 pm
@Wezwp: amen!
26 Nov 2009, 20:02 pm
@skopskiet: Why do you prefer Ruan at 10 and Morne at 12? My Bok backline for 2011 will look like this:
15) F.Steyn/Z.Kirchner
14) JP/Mapoe
13) Fourie/Olivier
12) Jean/Pienaar/de Jongh
11) Habana/Nokwe
10) Morne/Pienaar
9) FdP/Hougard
26 Nov 2009, 20:02 pm
@soda Barnes was without a doubt the best no.12 in the s14. WO is not even a midfield general how could you say he was better than Nonu,Barnes, etc
26 Nov 2009, 20:03 pm
I heard that BJ might join the Bulls soon? Is that true?
26 Nov 2009, 20:05 pm
@Wezwp: He was definitly better than Nonu, and by far SA’s best 12.
26 Nov 2009, 20:05 pm
Over and out! Later!
26 Nov 2009, 20:06 pm
If the no12 is no different from the no10, then where does Wynand fit in. He will be a good stop gap replacement on Saturday thats all. Only reason Jean isnt starting is because it will ultimately destroy what he said about selecting overseas players.
26 Nov 2009, 20:07 pm
@Johan Fourie: Bob skinstad says that BJ and CJ are looking for Provincial contracts …and would come home if they could secure Bok and provincial contracts….both available from May 2010…..so may miss Super 14…..
I guess Muir must be frothing at the mouth….CJ hinted at Cape Town….time will tell….
BJ a real Durban Boy…..DHS, etc….so i think he may head to sharks….depends on Smit to a degree i reckon…and how Sharks gonna use him…
26 Nov 2009, 20:08 pm
@Wezwp: imo…..JDV and F Steyn our 2 best 12 s …
26 Nov 2009, 20:09 pm
@Grant10 whatever the outcome we could use them both over here in the republic.
26 Nov 2009, 20:10 pm
@Grant imo Francois is our best fullback.
26 Nov 2009, 20:12 pm
@Wezwp: Like I’ve said, I think WO is a better 13, he needs a JdV on his inside to create play. Not all 12′s can play 10, and visa versa. But it it helps if you can play both positions.
Examples in SA:
Hennie le Roux
Henry Honiball
Michael du Plessis
Meyer Bosman
Peter Grant
Morne Steyn
Just to mention a few.
26 Nov 2009, 20:14 pm
Yeah i think he will be excellent at 13.
26 Nov 2009, 20:15 pm
@Wezwp: yes….but on the heavy NH fields i wouldnt mind having F Steyn,, also the odd long penalty or drop kick can win a test there
26 Nov 2009, 20:15 pm
@Johan Fourie: #228
They must thank their lucky stars they’re not black otherwise they would never have reached 20 test caps.
26 Nov 2009, 20:17 pm
The long penalty yes the long drop kicks no. We all know he only lands 3 out of ten long range drop kicks. Lets leave that to Morné.
26 Nov 2009, 20:20 pm
Who is the most capped black players in Sa with exception of Habana and Paulse.?
26 Nov 2009, 20:21 pm
Big whoop
why’s Jean on the bench?
26 Nov 2009, 20:22 pm
@grant10: fransie is having his hair done by those french lasses & eaning his millions, no need to disturb him…plus we won in perth without him.
26 Nov 2009, 20:22 pm
Because he wasnt loyal to wp Sarah.
26 Nov 2009, 20:23 pm
@nama1: I was merely responding to the statement that WO was a quota. According to the definition that is. I dont care about colour. Best must play, coaches make mistakes.
26 Nov 2009, 20:23 pm
@Wezwp: Ricky, Bolla, Chester I think.
26 Nov 2009, 20:24 pm
Cheers all!
26 Nov 2009, 20:25 pm
@Transformation: Always rated the kid….i know he is an erratic bugger….but hell at 22 he is a legend already……
Cool kid….will come back from France an even better rounded player…Cape Town awaits….
26 Nov 2009, 20:25 pm
@SpringbokSarah: The only reason is because he only joined the team yesterday.
26 Nov 2009, 20:25 pm
@Johan Fourie: cheers
26 Nov 2009, 20:26 pm
@grant10: #247
“and would come home if they could secure Bok and provincial contracts”
If one of their prerequisites for coming back is a Bok contract, they can stay right where they are, thank you.
We’ll nurture these youngsters coming through and in two years time everybody will ask, who the hell are BJ and CJ?
26 Nov 2009, 20:26 pm
@grant10: Agree, apart from the Cape Town thing that is.
26 Nov 2009, 20:29 pm
@nama1: obviously its a financial consideration for them as well?
I know CJ was offered one last year ….not sure about BJ…..
Lets see…personally i want the best back in SA if possible….wish a load would come home to strenthen our super 14 squads….i can tell you the lions are awaiting some negotiations…..a lot can happen prior to Jan 13 when the super 14 squads need to be finalised. Personally i reckon some shocks coming!
26 Nov 2009, 20:33 pm
my philosophy in rugby is always to get the maximum momentum through the back line in a crisp attack mode game plan. Chuck the kicking game for when you seriously desperate on defense only.
Last year I would have played Grant at 10 long before Butch James and I would have stuck with January ahead of Fdp and I’m willing to put my head and maybe even something else on the block that we would have done far better in the 3N perhaps even won it instead of coming stone last.
If you want momentum through the backs you need fast crisp service from base of scrum. Someone like Adams or S. Pretorius to get the ball away to fly half at speed. Then you need a fly half hitting that adv line at pace or running a line like Carter does or Giteau / Larkham used to do. Or crash it up like Henry Honiball did or Jdv does.
The silky slick running fly half ala Carter / Larkham is Pienaar. The crash ball bust it up hard running fly half ala Henry Honiball is Peter Grant. The deep in the pocket kick metronome ala Nasty Botha / Andrew Mehrtens / Mauger / Catt is Morne Steyn.
Morne Steyn got far more guts in the tackle and on the crash ball than Pienaar and he’s got a boot to get out of trouble if required. He’d make a far better harder running and safer option on defense than R. Pienaar, also Pienaar is much quicker off the mark and a far more creative intuitive running back.
It stands to perfect reason for me to get the best of both worlds is have M. Steyn at 12 or 15 and Pienaar it 10. Would work a treat and Pienaar would never have the spectre of goal kicking hanging over his head with Steyn on the field.
Jacque Fourie is a hard running finisher for 13 or 14. Juan De Jongh is creative in the gap smelling genre similar to Gerber and Jacobs and a perfect 13 but could very well develop into a good 12 if honed there but would have to learn to distribute more.
A great back line if played consistently and molded into a well drilled team would be
S. Pretorius / Hougaard
Pienaar
Habana / Mapoe
M. Steyn
De Jongh
Fourie / JPP
F. Steyn / Viljoen / Kirchner
I still would always play Pienaar at 10 and M. Steyn 12 and not the other way round for both attacking and defensive reasons.
26 Nov 2009, 20:43 pm
Skop, agree fully. I also want Ruan at 10 and believe me PDV will stick with him there. End of the day the Boks call you, you farkin answer the call!
26 Nov 2009, 20:43 pm
@skopskiet: Skop…conceptually a Pienaar at 10 and M S at 12 has merit….the fly in the ointment is the players head space…..i assure you that Ruan made it plain to Plumtree it was 9 at Sharks or he wanted out……thats a fact skop…..you can bank that…..
M S has already played at 12 for Bulls….and ….imo….a far better prospect at 12 than Pienaar…..who already has kop issues…..imagine another move for him???
And with the 2 of them at different provinces it makes it even more difficult.
Realistically i just dont see Sharks risking a RP move to 10 after he made his wishes crystal clear.
And would the Bulls be prepared to shunt there idol around to 12? I dont think so.
I know you a huge R P at 10 fan….but Ruans biggest enemy is his own mind Skop….until he can clear the cobwebs he remains a bit of an enigma….
The Saracens 1 st half was a reminder to me of what a talent he is…..but it seems he is headstrong and wants the 9 jersey at all costs, even if it means missing out on the Bok 10 spot.
26 Nov 2009, 20:48 pm
Hiyas Grant, the wise one! Hows your fanclub coming along?
26 Nov 2009, 20:54 pm
@Slappes: Wise and Grant seldom make the same sentence!!
Going to watch the game sat at Firemans with Justrugby…..pop in for a pint or 3??
26 Nov 2009, 20:59 pm
Grant sounds good, just have to sort some biz – will let you know tomorrow. ps you have been making the right calls regarding the boks the WHOLE FARKIN SEASON!
26 Nov 2009, 20:59 pm
Pienaar must simply get his No. 9 fragile head sorted. He’s about the 4th or 5th rated scrum half in the country. If I’m Pdv I tell him Ruan my boy its 10 or F’all so get your head around it. The Saracens game plus the first Lions game were swinging along at close to perfection while Adams or Fdp were providing fast efficient service and Pienaar was able to relish the extra time and space. He’s a natural gifted intuitive running back not a scrum half. S. Pretorius is a scrum half, Adams is a scrum half. Vermaak is a scrum half. Hougaard is a scrum half similar to Fdp who is more like a fly half than scrum half but he’s developed his 9 game for our kicking style. Pienaar is a 10. Could play 15 or 12 but don’t have the balls for it. But he can certainly become a great 10 though only a mediocre 9.
26 Nov 2009, 21:01 pm
@grant10: all ruan needs is to go to the bush & get circumcised. It worked for gcobani bobo!
26 Nov 2009, 21:03 pm
@Slappes: A lot of bloggers been calling for the same changes i have…Soda Joe…Justrugby…Robzim…Skop….
Seems the Cape Town boys got the brains…..Soda must have roots here…LOL
Cool…let me know….will be a jorl….big screens and Bosuns Bitter!!!
Bobs yout aunt!
26 Nov 2009, 21:04 pm
@SodaJoe:
If you mean Ruan’s start in 15 in 3N, I’ve got my own theory why he wasn’t interested to play there. Remember it was taken from Frans his best buddy so Ruan didn,t want his job . To all accounts he even asked himself for not being considered in 15 in the last test in favour for Frans. That’s why Fransie could step in and kicked these missiles . I don’t know if Ruan were equally disinterested in 15 now but we’ll never know as the position was given do Kirchner.
I do agree Ruan should move overaseas though just now not after world cup. In these cirmcunstances he has no much to lose.
26 Nov 2009, 21:04 pm
@Transformation: LOL…
Classic!!!
Fark me …is that the problem…snip that foreskin Ruan…win us the WC again!!!
26 Nov 2009, 21:05 pm
@Johan Fourie: #260
I was referring to your post (228) that states that WO has not step up yet and that it took F. du Preez “a good 20 test matches before he really settled in at the Boks.”
I know that you don’t care about colour. Most on this blog don’t.
26 Nov 2009, 21:06 pm
@skopskiet: aye
26 Nov 2009, 21:07 pm
The odds are 10:11 for Ireland.
I’ll go with it, although Joh Hayes must be licking his lips
26 Nov 2009, 21:08 pm
The way MS gone off the boil…maybe Ruan will be kicking himself! But i have a feeling MS will have a big one Sat…..
I tell you, this is a moer of a Bok lineup….if this was the middle of the season…fark me….Ireland would be dead and buried….
Throw F Steyn, Juan Smith, Spies into that mix….strongest Bok team i have ever seen i reckon….seriously!
26 Nov 2009, 21:11 pm
Ruan must stick at fly half and become the player he’s cut out to be. He’ll get all the backing from coach. M. Steyn would work well with him in tandem at 12.
In no time at all we could develop a back line that could be devastating if we got Morne off fly half where he stifles the momentum and into 12 where he don’t have to think all that much and just run pass tackle or kick in dire circumstances only.
S. Pretorius
Pienaar
Mapoe – Habana
M. Steyn
De Jongh
Fourie – JPP
Kirchner – Viljoen – F. Steyn
That back line would cook with some serious gas. At pace and momentum to spare.
26 Nov 2009, 21:12 pm
@grant10: Bloody hell. Against France his service was **** behind a back-pedaling pack but he took his points and was ok in a kak team overall.
Against Italy he did not come to grips with the Mitre ball, but neither did his counterpart. His service was much better.
Morne Steyn has not let the Boks down, and more than once saved our arse.
Off the boil? Have to disagree. At his best – probably not, but his best is fkn good.
26 Nov 2009, 21:14 pm
@skopskiet: Honestly, the team for Saturday right now is pretty much as good as we have. Juan Smith only guy missing.
26 Nov 2009, 21:17 pm
@SodaJoe: agree…should have put compared to his walk on water season….quite right….i consider myself reprimanded….he certainly has been a revelation….ice in them\ veins.
26 Nov 2009, 21:17 pm
@SodaJoe:
amen to that nobody likes that mitre ball not even the italian kickers..
26 Nov 2009, 21:18 pm
Grant yeah I know the other guys also called it BUT you were going insane! Transformation
uRuan Pienaar!
26 Nov 2009, 21:18 pm
@SodaJoe: Soda…whats your take on the Smit / Bissy dilemma?
26 Nov 2009, 21:20 pm
@SodaJoe:
and Frans at 15………
26 Nov 2009, 21:20 pm
@Slappes: only because it was damn pretty obvious….and hell i hate seeing a Bok scrum go in reverse….wont say turbo reverse because Gunther gets upset with me…LOL
26 Nov 2009, 21:20 pm
@SodaJoe:
and frans steyn!
26 Nov 2009, 21:21 pm
@grant10: LOL.
Brussow & M. Steyn changed PdV’s team to be the best in the world.
Re post 286. With F. Steyn at 15 and Juan Smith at 7 and Spies at 8. That’s our best team.
Fok. Spies behind a power pack, eish – dynamite. Glad he’s resting at home.
26 Nov 2009, 21:22 pm
i would love to see Spies and Brussow behind a dominant bok scrummaging effort….hell man i reckon that will be a sight to behold!!
26 Nov 2009, 21:23 pm
@grant10: I think Biz is jaded. He’s bloody good. He needs a rest.
We have this phobia about losing Smitty, but if deemed essential Smit must play 2, he’s a kak 3.
26 Nov 2009, 21:23 pm
@gunther: @whatever: snap.
26 Nov 2009, 21:23 pm
eish, forgot about Spies. Think Dannie is over the hill now, keeps losing the ball in the tackle…….nice little flick last week-end but thats where it ends for me.
26 Nov 2009, 21:24 pm
Morne Steyn was a revelation – farkin icecold, nerves of steel, lethal boot.
26 Nov 2009, 21:26 pm
You Oke’s still can’t see the writing on the wall Fdp and M. Steyn is not God’s gift to our back line woes, just prolonging the agony. Far too predictable, far too one dimensional. You want a back line that creates some action then get M. Steyn out of 10. Great Bmt great composure under pressure great courage and stern defensive capacity. Top rate goal kicker 2nd to none, but a stifler of our back line momentum, far too one dimensional to ever be really truly great distributing running 10. I wonder why we always go for this safety first conservative option in our rugby thinking, that alone is the real staller in the development in our game.
26 Nov 2009, 21:27 pm
@SodaJoe: huge dilemma at the sharks i tell you….watch this space….kak gonna go down there still…..
26 Nov 2009, 21:27 pm
@SodaJoe:
I was prepared to go with PDv on the Smit change to 3, but it’s obvious he has not dominated. Kinda “holding your own…sometimes” is not good enough for a Bok 3. He now needs to battle it out with Bissie for the no 2 berth.
26 Nov 2009, 21:28 pm
@grant10:
Whats the story Grant?
26 Nov 2009, 21:28 pm
@SodaJoe:
look at our most successful teams
Piennar & Kitch
Teich & Mallet (until mallet screwed the pooch with bob)
Barney and Jake
and now
Barney and PdV…
26 Nov 2009, 21:29 pm
@whatever: I think we have focused on the front 3 improved scrummaging effort last week.
But Danie at 8 and Deysel at 7 were just as important.
Oom Danie is a great Springbok, biggest heart ever. Won us a World Cup. By himself.
Willem Alberts is the next Danie Roussouw, and every Bok team should have one.
26 Nov 2009, 21:30 pm
@skopskiet: Have a look at S14 Bulls Points For, Bulls Points Against. Your argument is totally flawed.
26 Nov 2009, 21:31 pm
Grant you reckon fins gonna fly in the sharktank?
26 Nov 2009, 21:31 pm
@whatever: I agree.
26 Nov 2009, 21:31 pm
skop…only way boks would go into a battle without MS would be if F Steyn was at 15…..RP dont like that responsibility at all….oke looks like he is about to burst into tears at the prospect…cat on a hot tin roof….
I am not sure whether F Steyn is first choice kicker in France? Hope so, because he has the ability to be a Bok front line kicker….till then the conservative nature of the SAffas will rule the roost.
26 Nov 2009, 21:34 pm
@whatever: no…just speculating….Bissy a handfull….and wont take kindly to sharing the 2 duties….Smit surely cant play 3 at sharks and 2 for Boks?
And a fait accompli that BJ and Cj gonna be back….
Last man standing stuff….competetion is good.
26 Nov 2009, 21:34 pm
@gunther: Boet. John Smit is our Greatest Ever Captain. No argument. An all time great rugby player on a global stage.
At hooker.
If deemed indispensable, then play him at 2. That’s Piet Snor’s call. Not 3.
Tighthead we are emerging from our own bums.
WP Nel
Bj Botha
Kevin Buys
CJ V. D Linde
All 4 are significantly better than John. All are Bok material.
26 Nov 2009, 21:34 pm
@SodaJoe:
Yeah, great tackle at the WC, but for a big bloke he is too upright and gets knocked back too often for my liking… he blows hot and cold.
26 Nov 2009, 21:34 pm
@grant10:
test match rugby is conservative…the boks have never been a running team why would we start now..
and if i remember rightly we carved australia to pieces with this “stifled” backline…
26 Nov 2009, 21:34 pm
@Slappes: Boet, Speedy is just wishing on a lucky penny.
26 Nov 2009, 21:35 pm
@Slappes: Sardines,, Tuna…great whites….kak in the aquarium….watch my man….Tsunami of trouble…watch…
26 Nov 2009, 21:36 pm
@whatever: I think he’s always better than good, and gives everything.
Truthfully I think this may be his last tour.
Alberts should have been on this tour.
26 Nov 2009, 21:36 pm
Bring back the post ref no Keo!
26 Nov 2009, 21:36 pm
@gunther: aye.
26 Nov 2009, 21:36 pm
@whatever: It is DRIVING ME CRAZY!
26 Nov 2009, 21:37 pm
@SodaJoe:
Agreed. Then again there were quite a few blokes left behind
26 Nov 2009, 21:37 pm
@grant10: You wish.
26 Nov 2009, 21:38 pm
@whatever:
that is a tough concept for soda to understand…
americans never leave a man behind…
26 Nov 2009, 21:40 pm
S14 or CC rugby is not international rugby. I take a M. Du Plessis, Carter, Larkham, Lynagh, Honiball type fly half over a Grant Fox, Naas Botha, Andrew Mehrtens, Joel Stransky, Jannie De Beer type fly half any day of the week. But thats just me. I prefer watching creative genius probing space than rigid kicking metronome machines.
26 Nov 2009, 21:40 pm
@gunther: Never ever. Only the ones who are too cheap to buy a round.
26 Nov 2009, 21:40 pm
@gunther: ja…i agree…i played 10….skop would of hated my style….kicked the **** out the ball….but we won a few we should of lost
On the other hand i slipped more tackles than Naas Botha…..and still get a nervous tic when i hear the name Gert Smal…
26 Nov 2009, 21:42 pm
@skopskiet:
I would put Lynagh in the latter category!
26 Nov 2009, 21:42 pm
@Sodajoe you mean wishing on his lucky 10yr old speedo lovepants?
26 Nov 2009, 21:42 pm
@skopskiet: Skops, no doubt and you are not alone. You like an exciting fluid backline.
I like to win.
And winning ugly is still winning.
Without opening an unnecessary can of worm, I think we have moved forward, even with Morne to a pretty exciting brand of rugby.
26 Nov 2009, 21:43 pm
this number stuff is hectic….wtf has happened here…
Roy????
26 Nov 2009, 21:44 pm
@grant10:
i watched the sa ireland game where we equalled the unbeaten run record under mallet…honiball was awesome we broke the mould with that one…ruan is no honiball…we need to play to ou strengths and ou strengths are no some bastardised multi-phased australian running game..
26 Nov 2009, 21:44 pm
@Slappes: It is rumoured that Speedy sacrificed his beloved blue & white speedo on the Weber for a front row. I am eternally grateful. Thank you Speedo10.
(He did say that he was unable to burn the green & gold version, this Rubicon was a little too deep).
26 Nov 2009, 21:44 pm
Check the Giteau mess last Sat….again the kicker can win the game…or lose it!
26 Nov 2009, 21:46 pm
@grant10: No one would blame you for having a nervous tic from Gert Smal.
Best shortarm punch in the history of boxing.
26 Nov 2009, 21:46 pm
@grant10:
its the mark of a great team…
one that wins games that it shouldn’t…
26 Nov 2009, 21:46 pm
Roy you lazy ****, fix the site.
26 Nov 2009, 21:47 pm
@gunther: how great was Bob Skinstad in that game G !!!!
My boy Bob….best loosie i ever seen!
Ja, we are by nature risk averse…and like the contact….Honibal was a helleva strange but effective 10!
26 Nov 2009, 21:47 pm
@SodaJoe: i was so desperate after the Italian game i was prepared to sacrifice the blondes dog!!
26 Nov 2009, 21:47 pm
@grant10: aye
26 Nov 2009, 21:48 pm
@SodaJoe:
i met him with his wife a few years back even she had a nervous tic…that guy has got the biggest hands i have ever seen…
along with schalk…
26 Nov 2009, 21:49 pm
@SodaJoe: ja…that kiwi Gary Knight i think…..goodnight nurse
26 Nov 2009, 21:49 pm
@grant10: Honestly – I was up to 3 goats, and it was getting expensive, and the neighbours were looking at me funny.
26 Nov 2009, 21:50 pm
@grant10:
bob the saddest story in rugby for me …. he could have been the greatest ever…and a nicer guy you couldn’t meet…
26 Nov 2009, 21:50 pm
One of our greatest test teams ever had
Joost 9
Honiball 10
P. Roussouw 11
Le Roux – R. Fleck 12
A. Snyman 13
J. Small – B. Paulse 14
A. Joubert 15
All creative running backs and hardly a kicker in sight.
26 Nov 2009, 21:50 pm
@SodaJoe: #306
SA scored 4 tries last Saturday. All by back line players. Did MS play a role in any of them?
At the end of the season people will look back and say the Boks scored so many tries by the backs with MS as pivot forgetting about all the tries in which he absolutely played no role. Apart from last weeks four tries I can think of another three out of the top of my head in which he played no role.
This is in no way an effort to put MS down. We should just keep perspective when we start to use things like points for/against to gauge the role of a FH in it.
26 Nov 2009, 21:51 pm
@SodaJoe:
try renting the goats..
26 Nov 2009, 21:52 pm
@grant10: Seriously boet. You love Bobby, but Ruben Krugerrand, Morne Dup, Schalk V1, we have had so many better players, he needed to not believe his own hype. And he fkd it up all by himself.
I will give him this – he was potentially unbelievable, and his comeback truly inspirational – quite something. If he had those testicles as a youngster – maybe all time best.
26 Nov 2009, 21:53 pm
@gunther: i met him through a mate …he has a holiday house at Onrus…and there kids play together….very quiet and unassuming oke….
It was the Watson debacle so i kept quiet, didnt want to get into a heated debate with someone that size….he was Asst Bok coach then….
26 Nov 2009, 21:54 pm
Sodajoe,
Grants rubicon is clifton beach and he crosses it daily , whilst scaring the living **** out of the sunbathers.
26 Nov 2009, 21:54 pm
@SodaJoe: LOL
@gunther: Absolutely….a genius…damn that Marshall….sod!!
26 Nov 2009, 21:55 pm
@nama1: Boet a rugby team has 15 players on the field.
Morne Steyn is our 10, an imo our best 10.
And the teams he plays in score plenty of tries, and usually win the trophies.
That’s my argument.
26 Nov 2009, 21:55 pm
@SodaJoe:
and andre venter…if you could bottle what it is to b a bok…it would have his picture on it…
26 Nov 2009, 21:55 pm
Lynagh may have been a kicking fly to an extent but a thinking creative genius putting Campese away with a deft cross kick or Horan – Little away with some clever creative running lines. He may have been a clever kicking strategist but certainly wasn’t one dimensional by any stretch of the imagination.
26 Nov 2009, 21:57 pm
@gunther: But how do you give back the burned out carcass?
26 Nov 2009, 21:58 pm
@SodaJoe: seriously soda….in 2007 i wasnt on this site yet….but i swear when he made that comeback i had tears in my eyes….what a player …and the guts to come back after 3 years….great stuff.
I saw all those okes you mention….couldnt lace Bobs boots….he glided, was so talented he made the game look easy….the Barry Richards of rugby….!
26 Nov 2009, 21:58 pm
@SodaJoe:
you need to take out the “all risks” insurance package ….
26 Nov 2009, 22:00 pm
@grant10:
those other guys walked the walk…bob is about what should have been sadly…
26 Nov 2009, 22:01 pm
@gunther: Juan Smith
1. Os
2. Smit
3. Bands
4. Matfield
5. Bakkies
6. Ruben Krugerand
7. Juan Smith
8. Teichmann
9. FdP
10. Honiball
11. Habs
12. Hennie Le Roux
13. Jacque Fourie
14. James Small
15. Jouba
26 Nov 2009, 22:02 pm
@gunther: aye
26 Nov 2009, 22:03 pm
@SodaJoe: But we would have to score plensch tries coz none of dose fkers can kick!
26 Nov 2009, 22:04 pm
@grant10: Stood proud, as a man.
Inspirational. I got on the elliptical machine for a week.
26 Nov 2009, 22:04 pm
@SodaJoe:
that team would have scored more than a few…
26 Nov 2009, 22:07 pm
@gunther: Imagine lining up with Lem & Hennie opposite you. Those okes could bruise you just by looking.
Need a lot of extra magic water I think.
26 Nov 2009, 22:09 pm
@SodaJoe:
Good argument Soda
26 Nov 2009, 22:10 pm
@SodaJoe: Soda….Lions will do some hectic recruiting….expect some big announcements over next month i reckon.
26 Nov 2009, 22:11 pm
richard bands just dissapeared…pity.
26 Nov 2009, 22:12 pm
@whatever: Boet I wish I knew which post you were commenting on?
26 Nov 2009, 22:13 pm
bloody turks nailed my man u boys last nite….blondes ex rubbing it in ….swine.
26 Nov 2009, 22:13 pm
@grant10: Yup. Almost building a team from scratch. Going to be tough. Especially with the geniuses in the back office.
Whatever happened to Bands? Great tighthead prop, and as well know fast fkr too.
26 Nov 2009, 22:14 pm
Roy….whats the deal with the numbers boet?
Someone out there??
Fix it please.
26 Nov 2009, 22:14 pm
@grant10: Start supporting the White Rose. Nothing good ever came from the Red Rose – just mercenaries.
26 Nov 2009, 22:15 pm
@SodaJoe: will never forget a Bands tackle on Mc Caw at loftus….early in game…all over rover…mc caw off…bulls won!
26 Nov 2009, 22:16 pm
@SodaJoe: didnt know who those mercenaries were last nite masquerading as Man U….
26 Nov 2009, 22:16 pm
@grant10: In those days I never worried about #3. These past 2 years have been lousy. ‘Til last Saturday.
26 Nov 2009, 22:17 pm
Okay gents….chers all
Outta here
26 Nov 2009, 22:17 pm
@grant10: Leeds Leeds Leeds. Marching On Together. We are on the road back.
26 Nov 2009, 22:18 pm
@SodaJoe: amen….best news ever…my kingdom for a 3 has been answered….xmas come early….
PDV …thanks…
26 Nov 2009, 22:18 pm
@grant10: Night bud. Good chatting. I am going to read a book.
See you all through the window.
26 Nov 2009, 22:19 pm
@SodaJoe: would love to have Leeds back in the premier….
26 Nov 2009, 22:19 pm
My god how is Pienaar still in the team? Call up Brent Russel who is in spectacular form
26 Nov 2009, 22:21 pm
So you all happy with the team for Saturday?
I would have started with Deysel and Burger on the bench.
Pleased that JdV is back even if he is on the bench. Also pleased to see D. Potgieter making the bench. Deserves to be there too. Just happy to see Bakkies there was worried he may not have made it with that back injury.
Going to be tough. Hope no rain but that wont happen. Looks like rain and plenty wind for the game.
Still Boks will win this one. Boks by 5. If we had started with this team against France think we would have won.
26 Nov 2009, 22:46 pm
watching re-union right now.
they start off by saying all blacks are fatigued despite having a 6 week break before the eoyt.
6 weeks!!!!!
soooo….waka (a.k.a. bullshit bertie 11) is talking ****.
ab’s didn’t have the same workload as the boks before this tour.
the chop has been found out again.
haha
27 Nov 2009, 03:24 am
Hi guys I am really worried about the loose forwards
Brussow (who is a star) is fine but am a worried about Skalk and Danie.
I am concerend about Brussow battling on his own at the breakdown.
Anyone else worried?
27 Nov 2009, 03:26 am
I would have had Dysel and Potgieter with Brussow starting Danie and Skalk on bench
27 Nov 2009, 05:23 am
@CoachPete:
Not really, although Spies would have been the preferred option Danie suits the wet and miserable weather of the NH. Burger just needs to work on his technique in tackling, he is still everywhere though.
Against the french, you had Botha and Matfield off for most of the game, meaning BEKKER and KANKOWSKI were both standing in the backline doing nothing. Basically 6 Bok forwards against 8 Frenchies.
27 Nov 2009, 05:37 am
@charo:
No suprise there. Once a dooooos always a doooos, ne?
27 Nov 2009, 06:27 am
‘Kanko got a bump against Italy and we’ve decided to manage him,’ said De Villiers, even though Kankowski trained with the Boks on Thursday. ‘It’s going to be a tough Super 14 so we have to think of the player as well.’
LOL..what load BS!
Kanko was dropped
27 Nov 2009, 07:30 am
This a very good team with the best balance I’ve seen in a while.
Watch the scrummaging of the Boks this weekend! I predict a huge difference.
27 Nov 2009, 08:24 am
@CoachPete: me as well Coach….that would have been my combo…
27 Nov 2009, 08:29 am
@CoachPete:
@grant10:
I think starting with 2 novices in the loose trio would’ve been asking for trouble. Especially in the conditions where experience will be vital.
27 Nov 2009, 08:35 am
@skopskiet: Before we dim the lights what was their record like ? Nothing on our current squad let me tell you. Also Joost didnt pass, either broke round the side or kicked ahead.
27 Nov 2009, 08:36 am
What has Deysel done to warrant all the hype that want people starting him ahead of Schalk ?? Schalk has maybe not been at his best but the guy has 54 test caps to Deysels 1, we are playing Ireland in a huge crunch match, these games require every bit of experience available.
Schalk is better than Deysel in all aspects plus you have the bonus of the experience.
Good for Deysel that he is on the bench, personally I would have preferred a Vermuelen or a Alberts there as I believe they give you more options.
Deysel did not exactly have a stellar year, yes a few very good games, was poor in the latter part of the CC.
I have no major problem with him on the bench, but people calling for him to start ahead of Schalk are either Shark supporters or just don’t like the Schalk, but from a rugby viewpoint I cannot think of any reasoon that he should start ahead of Schalk.
27 Nov 2009, 08:41 am
@justrugby:
Yip, fair comment. There is a fair amount of Shark blindness shall we say
27 Nov 2009, 08:44 am
@CoachPete: Could be the Boks are using the French approach in using bigger fwds to blast the smaller Irish forwards off the ball. I would not have started Shalk and I hope John gives him a good talking to because every Irish player will be giving him some.
Lets see how we go, Dewald is not a fetcher either but a good mix of both.
27 Nov 2009, 08:46 am
@David: yes…point taken…i would have deliberated long and hard though. Still not convinced Schalk has done enough….but he knows he is under pressure…so lets see.
I would love him to be a success at 7….will assist Stormers as well.
27 Nov 2009, 08:49 am
@justrugby: Hi boet
Fair comment….Schalk will be under pressure to deliver…and may respond as we all know he can….as i said, i would have deliberated long and hard….but the experience factor is a very true reason to select him.
But its delivery time Schalk.
27 Nov 2009, 08:50 am
@justrugby: what time is kick off tomorrow?
27 Nov 2009, 08:56 am
@grant10:
Bigger issue for me on Sat is WO slotting in with Jaque, if there is any misunderstanding in that midfield we will be exposed, both very good players but have not had the chance to gel an understanding….might bite us in the ***.
27 Nov 2009, 08:57 am
Listen to Bob on the radio this morning, looks like it will be a dry afternoon at Croke park, cold but dry !!
27 Nov 2009, 08:59 am
@grant10:
4.30pm
27 Nov 2009, 09:03 am
Smitty can’t prop a scrum for toffee.
27 Nov 2009, 09:08 am
@justrugby: @justrugby: @justrugby: Great….hope its dry! Meet at the arms at 3…30?
That midfield will be tested BOD the man!
@TheTackler: No dispute….facts are facts…
27 Nov 2009, 09:10 am
@grant10:
Cool
27 Nov 2009, 09:16 am
@justrugby: Heard all about Gin yesterday, at least in one thing we are alike I love Bulldogs Banning him from watching when Playing ENgland was just cruel
27 Nov 2009, 09:16 am
@grant10:
We are up against one of the best centre pairings in the world, by brining Jean in I would have started him, he and Jaque have a record for centre partnerships therefore understand each other. This is a vital aspect !!!
It would be harsh on WO who does deserve a run, but in such a critical game , up against a potent centre pairing I personally would have started with JDEV adn JF.
I just hope that WO has the game of his life as this could make or break him !!
27 Nov 2009, 09:17 am
@Sharksgirl:
LOL !!! still heartbroken and miss the oke !!
27 Nov 2009, 09:28 am
@justrugby: I agree with you on this one!
Sorry didn’t mean to bring back painful memories
27 Nov 2009, 09:40 am
All those knocking Kanko are partly correct, he is lacking in the upper strength department, but they are also being very short-sighted.
Kanko is still very young and there is no doubting his abundance of talent. He’s proved this many times over. So give him some time to build his strength and watch him become a truly great player.
He could bulk up very quickly if he goes the ‘juice’ route which is rumoured to be Spies’s method (who knows?), we will have to wait and see.
27 Nov 2009, 09:45 am
@justrugby: Can’t be great for WO starting knowing that the slightest mishap will see the coaching staff bring on Jean DV. Hope he plays out of his skin and doesn’t choose to be conservative to prevtn him being subbed
27 Nov 2009, 11:14 am
Peter De Villiers makes such a idiotic comment…”‘We will always look inside our own country first. If we can’t find someone good enough, only then will we look outside.”…the better players are playing overseas so he will not pick the strongest squad….just plain stupid!!!
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