Ireland put the boot in
Jonathan Sexton kicked five penalties to clinch a 15-10 victory for Ireland in Dublin.
The wind wasn’t a factor at Croke Park but the 1 degree-temperature was always going to test a Springbok side that’s endured everything and more in 2009. They responded admirably, delivering a brutal display at scrum time and at the breakdown that gave those South Africans freezing in the cheap seats something to celebrate. Those who had put forth fatigue and the loss of Bakkies Botha as contributors to a Bok downfall must have been disappointed.
Surprisingly, it was at the lineout that the Boks struggled. The influence of Gert Smal, who just two years ago was working with John Smit and Victor Matfield, was patent as the Irish disrupted the Bok feed regularly. If not for the Boks’ dominance in other areas and the visitors’ heroic defence, Ireland may have led at half-time.
The Boks had to wait until the 12th minute for the first scrum, and it was something to behold. BJ Botha smashed opposite number Cian Healy and was well supported by the rest of the Bok pack, who rumbled forward and won several penalties on attacking ball.
Ireland flyhalf Sexton opened the scoring with a ninth-minute penalty, but it was the Boks, who were starved for both territory and possession, that scored the first and only try. From a scrum penalty, the Boks tapped quickly and looked to have butchered an opportunity before sending the ball back to the point of origin. Fourie du Preez, who had another splendid evening with the boot, showcased his invaluable vision by freeing up Jaque Fourie, who held up the pass for an unstoppable Schalk Burger to score. The man the Irish love to boo after the infamous eye-gouging incident hoofed the ball into the crowd after grounding the try.
Morne Steyn missed a few penalty punts to touch, but did some good things during the first half. He converted Burger’s try and slotted a drop goal to extend the visitors’ lead to 10-3 after 24 minutes.
But the scoreline didn’t tell the story. South Africa resisted a couple of Irish surges thanks to the defensive feats of Burger, Danie Rossouw and Wynand Olivier. Heinrich Brussow also obliged with some steals off his own line. Declan Kidney must have been fuming, while the South African coaches would have been breathing a collective sigh of relief.
Sexton narrowed the deficit to 10-6 on the 30-minute mark while the Bok flyhalf fluffed three successive penalty-attempts. Steyn failed to reach the poles twice at the end of the first half, and pushed another shot wide early in the second. On the whole, South Africa were outkicked by Sexton and Ireland’s phenomenal jack-of-all trades, Rob Kearney.
Another true strike by Sexton and errant tactical probe by Steyn, and you could sense a change in momentum. The dense fog that had threatened to settle since kickoff descended, but the crowd ignored the chill and expressed themselves through Gaelic song.
Andries Bekker was fortunate to escape a yellow card in the 51st minute when he dropped his knee onto the shoulder of an Irish player, but Sexton punished the Boks on the scoreboard. At 12-10, Ireland were in the lead.
The Boks defended bravely but continued to lose badly in the possession and territory stakes. Rossouw was caught after fielding a high ball, and it was South Africa’s good fortune that Sexton pushed the ensuing penalty shot wide.
Steyn was substituted for Ruan Pienaar on the hour, and Botha was also pulled from the front row. The first Bok scrum after the substitution saw the visitors shoved backwards, and the next breakdown resulted in a penalty for Ireland. The locals literally began dancing as Sexton bisected the uprights.
The five-point lead was substantial given South Africa’s battle to retain possession in opposition territory. You couldn’t see them mounting an assault on the Irish line in the time remaining, and with the kickers battling to find their radar, they couldn’t close the gap via penalties. Pienaar could do no better when asked to kick for goal, his attempt bouncing off the post.
Cruelly, for the green and gold faithful, the Boks did manage to get painstakingly close in last minute, but a magnificent Irish spot tackle killed the movement and the match.
The result renders the Boks’ tour a miserable failure with the most recent loss coming after defeats to Leicester, France and Saracens. It has been a long year, but none of the senior Boks will look back at November 2009 with any fond memories.
By Jon Cardinelli, in Dublin
November 28th, 2009 at 6:35 pm
Well done Ireland you deserved it,
If anyone wants a laugh i dont no if you guys in SA saw the BBC interview PDV prematch but what a load of rubbish he was spouting ” how the boks are undisputed champions of the world” he should be locked up before any games
November 28th, 2009 at 6:39 pm
Kick and run Boks are up to ****
November 28th, 2009 at 6:39 pm
ja the boks were awefull all they can do is kick and chase it was the most boring display of rugby i have ever seen just awefull another loss this year
November 28th, 2009 at 6:40 pm
Embarrassing performance. They made Ireland look very good today and really need to get their priorities straight next tour. If players are tired they shouldn’t be playing.
November 28th, 2009 at 6:40 pm
@west:
Lol PDV should be locked up permanently
Boks have NO game plan
November 28th, 2009 at 6:41 pm
@Boksarenumber2: yeah teams with such a limited gameplan usually come unstuck after a year of not trying to change it. Teams finally work it out and then they have got nothing else to offer, such a shame when you have quality outwide such as Habana , fourie and you chose to kick kick kick
November 28th, 2009 at 6:41 pm
We kicked away too much ball on Kearney, who was brilliant. Also missed too many kicks at goal. Scrum was dominant with Smit at hooker and average when he moved to prop. In the end, we lost this game through poor kicking.
November 28th, 2009 at 6:43 pm
ja boks need a new game plan
November 28th, 2009 at 6:43 pm
@Boksarenumber2: watch it if you can the women reporter just doesnt no how to answer his riddles , she asked about “how much a loss botha would be” and he came back with a riddle about life and looking forward in your life than looking backwards!!! I think he is getting worse
November 28th, 2009 at 6:44 pm
Ireland victory fair and square, but in the context of the greater picture, it’s no train smash!!
Lots for the coaches and selectors to work with, and after the 2010 S14, CC, and EOYT we will be much the wiser as to our chances for the WC in NZ 2011
November 28th, 2009 at 6:45 pm
Im afraid the writing was on the wall.
November 28th, 2009 at 6:45 pm
The world champs just choked again, when your favorites and lose its a choke isn’t it?
November 28th, 2009 at 6:46 pm
Most useless performance I’ve seen from a bok team in a long time
Get rid of the cancer and start again.
Half back axis is where we got sweet f’all zero idea whatsoever. Been screaming into the ether that this useless kick and chase rubbish going to sink us and so it has every game this tour.
FdP, useless
M. Steyn – useless
drop them both
Smit – hang up your boots now before any more damage ensues
Matfield – barely hangs in
Roussouw – out
But the cancer in our rugby starts at 9 & 10, get shot of these w@nkrs and start again. All the way back to the beginning
New captain
New Scrum half and fly half
Start again or expect more of the same kak boring useless losing rubbish.
November 28th, 2009 at 6:47 pm
Boks missed Koning Adi (Danie Gerber)
November 28th, 2009 at 6:47 pm
France will win because nh rugby is simply stronger. If you go back to my previous comments in October you will find i predicted this.
November 28th, 2009 at 6:47 pm
SKOPSKIET,
Who would you replace Smit, Matfield and FDP with?
Enlighten me.
November 28th, 2009 at 6:48 pm
Pieter gets a b plus for 2009.
November 28th, 2009 at 6:48 pm
Lol, alot of people predictably begining to deride the Boks, but in fairness, they have had a magic year!!
So the Irish won a match at home in really terrible weather…
How many times have Ireland gotten past the QF in any WC, and how many tests have Ireland won against SA overall.
This tour started poorly, and ended average!!!
We al know the reasons, bring on the 2011 season!!
November 28th, 2009 at 6:49 pm
Kick the kicking to the kerb. Boks have no variation in play. They should have taken this one no doubt. But if you only start running the ball in the 78th minute, what do you expect? Once again substitutions were poor – taking off Botha reversed the scrums and killed the momentum. A combination of fatigue and foolishness. Pity
November 28th, 2009 at 6:49 pm
@Wezwp:
So strong they haven’t breached the AB try line in countless games.
November 28th, 2009 at 6:50 pm
Morne Steyn is an overrated one trick pony,with Ruan on the field we had an attacking edge.The scrum is only one facet of the game and we dominated it but we were still clobbered.I’d rather we win with a retreating scrum than lose with a scrum that’s going forwad.Scrum dominance is overrated.
November 28th, 2009 at 6:52 pm
It irritates me that the national coachescan’t make commin sense decisions, i.e. if Frans Steyn played today, he would have been able to land those long penatly goals and we would have won. No brainer….
November 28th, 2009 at 6:52 pm
As a middle-aged Springbok supporter it hurts like hell to see our boys lose to a tiny nation like Ireland. Oh well, the glory days of the Boks of old remains to be cherished.
November 28th, 2009 at 6:52 pm
@Cheetah 4 Eva:
Isn’t that the third victory in a row for Ireland over the Bokke?
November 28th, 2009 at 6:52 pm
What I dont understand is the constant up-and-under tactic – it didnt come close to working and was aptly summed up when Schalk threw his arms up in despair when Pienaar did it…and this was the man who was supposed to come on and get the backline moving. I think we looked quite dangerous with the ball in hand though – thats when it was in hand however and not somewhere up in the farking heavens with mist on it!!
November 28th, 2009 at 6:52 pm
yeah but the irish and french are a cut above the rest. Nz’s defence was breached at home to france this year when they played at home.
November 28th, 2009 at 6:53 pm
would it be wrong of me to complain about the ref at all?
November 28th, 2009 at 6:55 pm
Again, **** Muir earns his money.
Do you think attacking skills practice is something like this:
Player: Coach what have you got planned for attacking practice today?
DM: Well we are going to see if we can improve our hang time of our kicks & practice 30m sprints so we can be near to the ball when it lands.
Player: What no moves, skip passes, inside flips, scissors, angles & stuff like that.
DM: Huh?
November 28th, 2009 at 6:55 pm
I hope the all blacks win to salvage some pride.
November 28th, 2009 at 6:55 pm
ANDREWBK,
Yes, we are not English. Ref never played the game, the Boks did!
November 28th, 2009 at 6:56 pm
Calm down guys. We were awful sure. End of year tour. Rubbish money business. Have some perspective.
November 28th, 2009 at 6:56 pm
ja u really cant blame the ref he doesnt just kick and chase
November 28th, 2009 at 6:56 pm
@NZINCHINA: Yup, 3rd in a row over 5 year, which includes the infamous win in Dublin.
All games have been in Ireland at the end of the SH season though.
Excuse? Yup I will take it.
November 28th, 2009 at 6:57 pm
Come 2011 the southern h. will make their “stem dik”.
November 28th, 2009 at 6:59 pm
irish just wanted it more in the end. boks played a good first half though. seem too tired in the second period.
well done to them. close chapter and move on!
November 28th, 2009 at 6:59 pm
We need a good “kop-dokter”. We are poor when we play away from home. A dangerous thing has happened now. Sides like Ireland and France now believe they are the favourites when playing at home against the Boks. This is going to make future tours even tougher.
November 28th, 2009 at 7:00 pm
proooooooooooooooovvvvvvvviiiiinnnnncccceeee!!!!!!!
November 28th, 2009 at 7:01 pm
@NZINCHINA: Jip it sure is, no denying it!! And apart from the try scored whilst the Boks backs were turned deservedly so!!
So where does it put Ireland?? We all know that the SH nations use the tours for experiments, and sometimes they fail!
Ireland were good today, no doubt!! Rhetorical question, would this Ireland side have won the Tri Nations???
Home field, cold wet, they played well. All I am saying is the Boks have achieved much in 2009… it was a great year!
November 28th, 2009 at 7:01 pm
MAMPARA73,
I would not say that they wanted it more, I would say that they were better coached, played the conditions better, came out with the right tactics, adapted to the game plan better.
All round, they had a much better coaching team.
Man for man, the Boks are superior players in almost every position. Why else are we loosing? Our tactics, selection and game plan was poor – all coaching errors…AGAIN!
November 28th, 2009 at 7:01 pm
Start again get shot of these twats the lot of these overrated kop toe idiots.
M.Steyn gets shown up by a rookie who at least runs it once in awhile.
between FdP and M.Steyn is exactly where the cancer in our rugby is, been saying it awhile already. get rid of those two and see a whole new lease of life.
This kick and chase sh’t was bound to come a cropper and so it has. Pity South African twat *** idiots take a couple ice ages before they realize wtf they doing killing the game stone vrek dead.
Smit – hang up your boots – klaar gelag – ous – go rest on your multitude of laurels
Matfield just about hang in there – just by the skin of yuour finger nails
Burger – passe
Roussouw – passe
CJ – klaar gelag – fini
Future bok team and get going with it now or watch this overrated bunch of palookas go all the way down the drain clutching yesterdays straws.
Vd Merwe, Beast, Blaauw
Liebenberg, Du Plessis, Strauss, Maku
BJ, WP Nel, K.Buys, W. Kruger
Bekker, Steenkamp, Sykes,
Matfield, Hargreaves, Lombard,
Brussow, Potgieter, Watson (c)
Louw, Deysel, Smith, Burger
Vermeulen, Spies, Alberts
S. Pretorius, Hougaardt,
Pienaar, Grant, JL Potgieter,
Habana, Nokwe
M.Steyn, WO, JdV
Fourie, De Jongh,
JPP, Mapoe
F.Steyn, Viljoen, Kirchner
November 28th, 2009 at 7:01 pm
Let these guys wallow in their end of year wins. False sense of their powers.
November 28th, 2009 at 7:01 pm
@AndrewBK: It always smacks of sour grapes but I thought he was pretty one sided on the 50/50 calls. I do think he controlled the game excellently, but did let a lot of Irish things slide & was super critical of the SA players.
Having said that, we did not help ourselves, Bekker & JP probably deserve to be cited after game.
November 28th, 2009 at 7:02 pm
well done ireland!
thouroughly deserved victory against a bok side that seemed to have no direction.
kick and chase all night long and when they kept ball in hand, they looked dangerous finally, but too little too late.
we won the scrums but lost the game. is everyone happy now with props who just scrum but cant make a cover tackle?
i am not.
anyways, when is the nz france game chaps?
November 28th, 2009 at 7:02 pm
I reckon this gives us a good chance to duck below the radar now, take the pressure off and come back when it really counts stronger and better than before. im sure not one of those players wanted to lose and did all they could to win. nobody wants to lose to NH teams, especially not to the whinging Irish. but lose they did and now they have to moe forward
November 28th, 2009 at 7:03 pm
skopskiet you are a chop.
November 28th, 2009 at 7:04 pm
Bet ya this will be the same game plan the bok coaches will use next year.
November 28th, 2009 at 7:05 pm
maybe, but this is the tactic that pumped you wallabie…time and time again.
November 28th, 2009 at 7:06 pm
@BULLET: good point, i’ll restrain myself.
@The Bill: yes also good point…
November 28th, 2009 at 7:06 pm
@Koos van der merwe:
Ruan hasn’t got 2 brain cells in his head
November 28th, 2009 at 7:07 pm
@rangerman:
21.30 kudusmous…
November 28th, 2009 at 7:07 pm
@wallabie.: It scares the living **** out of me, but I agree. It is difficult though, when PDV started we were like headless chickens, then we are kick chase one trick ponies.
We need to find a balance. I think a backline coach with a bit of a backbone or a clue would help. DM’s Sharks in S14 were almost exactly the same. He turned the best SA backline into glorified chasers & defenders…
November 28th, 2009 at 7:08 pm
Ireland was’nt that great, I thought their back-line lacked penetration. If they were more fired up we’d had real problems.
But well done to them, they showed great character and they have a good full back and a great new fly half.
Burger had one of his better games. Brussow was good but he plays better when in tandem with Bismarck. Daniesaurus had an ok game at 8.
I don’t know why we took of BJ Botha. Yes, I know I know, we wanted to fix Smit’s terrible throw ins. But then we should have taken off Smit.
I prefer de Villiers to Meisiekind, but the girl was having a good game. Why make many changes to a team that is doing well? And why do them almost simultaneously. I have yet to see a game where this works. Almost always we play significantly worse.
Kircherner had his best game yet for the Boks. Morne Steyn had his best game in defence.
Matfield was quiet.
All in all we looked tired. But we could have taken this if the coaches did not make rash decisions.
November 28th, 2009 at 7:08 pm
@Boksarenumber2: Why is that how many Morne has?
November 28th, 2009 at 7:10 pm
Mampara your name says what a twat you are just another doos *** SA mampara who can’t see past his blindfold
GET SHOT OF THE HAS BEENS OR SWALLOW LOT MORE PAINFUL POISON ALL THE WAY TO RWC 2011.
DO IT NOW OR SUFFER IN SILENCE.
kick and chase **** rugby strategy from Smit, & co. who was reading the calls on the field, how come Smit didn’t change the game plan that clearly weren’t working.
Get out, get proper rugby brains on the field, and drop FdP and M.Steyn before they disintegrate any last vestige of springbok running rugby absolutely stone cold dead.
November 28th, 2009 at 7:11 pm
@Cheetah 4 Eva:
Apart from beating the AB`s 3 times, it was a rather average year. Even our performance against the Lions was average and could have gone either way (We were undercooked and were a bit lucky). The string of losses at the end of the year makes this year nothing special at all. Time for oldies like Smit to finish. We still have some time before the next world cup.
November 28th, 2009 at 7:12 pm
@allamapstieks: Gotta disagree there. Bismark has not looked for a long time. He brought no go forward tonight.
Not sure why Deysel didn’t get a run, especially just for the blood bin. Our guys were tired, so we should have brought on some freshness with 25 to go. Although I thought our loosies were ok, so not sure who I would have taken off.
November 28th, 2009 at 7:13 pm
skopskiet you REALLY are a chop. chill boet before your hernia arrives.
November 28th, 2009 at 7:13 pm
@rangerman:
Crikey Ranger what a shambles 4 losses out of five games, thank god you beat the Italians.
November 28th, 2009 at 7:16 pm
@Springbokvel:
The Bokke have peaked, we had no second row this year, free ride for the Bokke, next year will be a very different story – Williams / Jack to bolster the locks and Hayman back in the front row.
November 28th, 2009 at 7:17 pm
lol jack? hes past his best.
November 28th, 2009 at 7:18 pm
@Wezwp:
He’ll still win ball, and when we get 50% of the ball we beat you.
November 28th, 2009 at 7:19 pm
Wynand Olivier is rubbish.If he was darker he would’ve been called all sorts of names.Later guys,gotta watch the Aussies & the Welsh.
November 28th, 2009 at 7:19 pm
Anyone could see the leading players were tired today
November 28th, 2009 at 7:20 pm
Ill put out Matfield andbotha and you bring out any of your locks. We needed this tour to bring us down to earth. We play better in the sh anyway. Wc 2011 is ours.
November 28th, 2009 at 7:20 pm
Today we saw the limits of the so-called structured game.
Before 2004 we’d only lost once to Ireland in 98 years. Now we are on our third straight loss in Ireland.
PdV got complacent and just relied on the same old tired game plan. Time to inject something new.
November 28th, 2009 at 7:22 pm
PDV is more of a manager than a head coach
November 28th, 2009 at 7:22 pm
@Koos van der merwe: I agree. He’s now had 27 tests to prove himself. time for him to go back to S14 and CC where he is very good.
November 28th, 2009 at 7:22 pm
Im glad no one is calling for pdv’s head. Maybe racism is truly over in Sa.
November 28th, 2009 at 7:23 pm
SCREW THIS BRING ON THE SUPER 14 !!!!!!!!!!
November 28th, 2009 at 7:23 pm
@NZINCHINA:
As long as the travel is in your favour [s]
November 28th, 2009 at 7:25 pm
@Wezwp:
If people think PDV is not the best head coach in SA, that doesn’t automatically mean they’re racist
November 28th, 2009 at 7:26 pm
@sglazer:
Out of here, enjoy the Sunday papers tomorrow.
November 28th, 2009 at 7:27 pm
YYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS!!
Good game boys, this is probably the best time in Irish Rugby history. Good to see the players hugging it out at the end as well.
November 28th, 2009 at 7:28 pm
@NZINCHINA:
Hee hee. Cheers.
November 28th, 2009 at 7:28 pm
Lol mglazer has any other coach won a tri nations convincingly and beat the lions in a series in the space of six months.
November 28th, 2009 at 7:31 pm
@Wezwp:
He arrived on the scene when a world-beating team had already been forged.
November 28th, 2009 at 7:32 pm
i heard that the Springbok has been awarded Team of the Year by the IRB? Declan Kidney got coach of the year…
November 28th, 2009 at 7:33 pm
With that same world beating team NZ beat them at home mglazer.
November 28th, 2009 at 7:36 pm
@Wezwp:
Brussow wasn’t even in the squad this year, let alone the team
November 28th, 2009 at 7:37 pm
@Wezwp:
Last year PDV started experimenting with that world-beating team. Remember?
November 28th, 2009 at 7:44 pm
all the Boks need is to fire the Racist Quota DecisionIncredibly USELESS Coach PDV has embarrassed SA rugby more than any coach in history.thank God for injuries the Boks were far superior without Adi Jacobs and Kankmowski
November 28th, 2009 at 7:45 pm
Well done Ireland. Worthy winners.
Anyone got live feed for Aus vs Wales
November 28th, 2009 at 7:48 pm
@SodaJoe: check out this website, it’s a great alternative to the usual. you’ll need to install svpod player (or something, just click on the little penguin to install)
http(colon, double forward slash) live(dot)spvod(dot)com/live/200911/spvod17922_1(dot)htm
November 28th, 2009 at 7:50 pm
@bluealligator: I assume you’re joking.
November 28th, 2009 at 7:50 pm
@bluealligator: At least they didn’t score 49 points!
November 28th, 2009 at 7:51 pm
whats with the KEO quiz? we already know the Boks won team of the year
November 28th, 2009 at 7:52 pm
@AndrewBK: Thanks Andrew. Iwill give it a go. I have a feed, so I won’t risk it now.
November 28th, 2009 at 7:55 pm
Congratulations, Ireland. After impressive 3 Nations, the wheels have come off for the Boks, now 3 losses in a row to France and Ireland.
Best in the world? Not anymore.
November 28th, 2009 at 7:59 pm
@Nils: i would say we probably are still the best team in the world, but just not by a very big margin.
November 28th, 2009 at 8:00 pm
@AndrewBK: Very big probably.
You were after 3 Nations. Not in November, please.
November 28th, 2009 at 8:01 pm
@bluealligator: Aha…you must’ve been waiting so long to post that comment this year hey?
November 28th, 2009 at 8:01 pm
hmmmm so ons het verloor en ek het geweet ons gaan verloor , maar ons moet dink aan ons spelers , maak nie saak wie ander se nie maar ons bly die beste as ons spelers nie so moeg is nie , die manne speel van begin jaar tot einde van die jaar so hulle moet moeg wees . Jammer ons kan nie deur die jaar toetse speel nie dan sou ons iets anders gesien het. Ons is die beste maar die manne is moeg en dis maar net so en klaar. Vlg jaar sal dinge weer beter gaan ! bokke bly bo as die afrigter sy kop gebruik
November 28th, 2009 at 8:02 pm
@bluealligator: Its not only the coach. Pdv showed he wants to play a different style but the squad cannot play to that style. We have heavy forwards that lack the upper body strength and backs that are big and can run fast in one direction but lack footwork. This limits us to being strong in the fixed plays and kick and run game. Watch how much work theozzie backs getthrough without the ball ,running all over the show toshift defences.
November 28th, 2009 at 8:05 pm
@mampara73:
26-6
November 28th, 2009 at 8:10 pm
We were beaten because we were predictable.
Again, teams that match us physically always have a great chance to win, particularly very hard forceful running straight at us.
Whichever brain-surgeon decided to take BJ Botha off has rocks in his head.
Worst game I have ever seen Victor Matfield play.
Bekker still lacks physical talents in the tight, and was rubbish in the lineout today.
Morne Up & Unders Up & Unders Up & Unders Up & Unders ….. tackled very well.
Ruan I am in love with the goal posts – those 3 points would have set up a win.
Schalk is a very good 7.
Danie Big Heart – no more miles left, thanks.
Smitty – did Bismarck give you throw in coaching. And sorry you’re still no 3. How much more proof do we want.
Wynand was ok. Fdp ok (by his standards poor). Habs & JPP ok. Zane much better – getting there.
Brussow again our best player.
November 28th, 2009 at 8:11 pm
@SodaJoe: no probs… it’s the Supersport feed btw…
November 28th, 2009 at 8:12 pm
Go Wallabies!!!
November 28th, 2009 at 8:14 pm
@AndrewBK: I will try it for Blacks. When I have a good feed I stick with it. It is FoxSports on mine.
Good game of rugby. Can’t seem to post on the thread though.
November 28th, 2009 at 8:17 pm
At the end of the day it’s a wasted and embarrassing tour that should’ve been used to try and evolve the team for next year’s tri-nations. Instead we ran our veterans into the ground and showed the Aussies and Kiwis we are very beatable. Rugby has never made me angry till this Novemember.
November 28th, 2009 at 8:18 pm
@Nils: yes fair enough, that last 3 games of the season we haven’t been, but who else can you say is the best side in the world?
November 28th, 2009 at 8:18 pm
@SodaJoe: could you, please, name fox sports link if you are watching on pc?
November 28th, 2009 at 8:18 pm
@SodaJoe: ya actually if you’ve got a good feed, it’s best to stick to it… they can be very fickle.
November 28th, 2009 at 8:20 pm
@Nils:
iraqgoals.net/3786-rugby-wales-vs-australia.html
November 28th, 2009 at 8:21 pm
I have no idea where the iraq goals comes from.
November 28th, 2009 at 8:21 pm
@SodaJoe: many thanks!
November 28th, 2009 at 8:22 pm
Ping Pong. But big kick for Hookie. Long one.
Man we missed Francois’ Big Boot today.
November 28th, 2009 at 8:26 pm
6 points a begging for Wales.
November 28th, 2009 at 8:29 pm
Grant at flyhalf and Steyn back at fullback. JDV and Fourie at centre. That should do it.
November 28th, 2009 at 8:31 pm
Cmon Australia!
With such a meagre, no, pathetic resources to be in the top 3 (and usually at least in the top 5) and to win the world cup twice – astonishing. my hat off to them, no matter whether you call them convicts or whatever.
Although Wales are my second favourite rugby team in Europe after France, I hope Australia will win today. And convincingly.
November 28th, 2009 at 8:33 pm
I got it right, why you couldn’t?
Below my thread from yesterday:
61. Hondo :
November 28th, 2009 at 7:44 am
Bakki Botha is out injured, that already changed the UK odds from a 12:10 to 10:13.
Also, Bekker moved to lock in the line up while Hougaard is on the bench, the Boks are now with 4 forwards, 3 backs on the bench.
The Boks are persumed weaker and still have the Beast and Kirshner among the run ons, a certain handicap.
prediction:
Ireland by 3 to 10 points
November 28th, 2009 at 8:33 pm
@sglazer:
When he was appointed, SARU’s official statement was that it was not for rugby reasons alone. Meaning, had it been for rugby reasons alone, Meyer would have been appointed.
I’m not saying PDV is a bad guy, or a bad coach, etc. Just that he is not the best head coach in SA and his first two seasons have shown this.
November 28th, 2009 at 8:34 pm
26-12
November 28th, 2009 at 8:34 pm
We didn’t miss F. Steyn today all we missed was a scrum half and fly half that know wtf to do on a rugby field. The two f.ng useless dumb *** idiot palooka’s we got f’ak’d up the entire game on their own. Fdp and M. Steyn lost this game same way they lost against France.
People are dumb deluded. They cannot see that since we adopted this f’ak’d out idiotic kick the f.ng ball in the air approach starting with the f.ng useless Fdp and continuing on with the equally useless M. Steyn our rugby has deteriorated into the most dismal dumb f’ak hopeless rubbish rugby on the planet. And we wonder why we can’t win against low rated Nh sides. Watch Aus and NZ carve up Wales and France at will while we revert to dumb f’ak dumb doos twat *** idiotic stone age kak rubbish trash rugby brought on by who I’d like to know. Which dumb f’ak idiot started all this structured up in the air kick and chase trash?
Muir, Smit, Fdp, M. Steyn – out
Matfield, Burger hanging in by finger nails.
Start again I’m shouting it loud and clear from the roof tops. Start again or go down like a bunch of no hope idiotic dumb twat fools.
November 28th, 2009 at 8:38 pm
Australia try again, Wales are owned.
Yes.
November 28th, 2009 at 8:38 pm
BOKS CROAK AT CROKE PARK
I swear every time I fall asleep, the Boks are winning but when I wake up and we lost… Italy was the only game that I actually watched
November 28th, 2009 at 8:40 pm
@skopskiet: wouldn’t say no to Dewaldt and Peter
November 28th, 2009 at 8:40 pm
@SodaJoe:
You aren’t gonna win too many Tests with Kirshner and The Beast, that’s a fact
With CJ/Wiam Du Preez and Fran Styen in the line up I would have put the Boks for a 4:1 to win at a 12-23 spread!
November 28th, 2009 at 8:45 pm
@skopskiet:
Bring on Adams, Rose and Burton Francis, right!
January too,,,
And why not?
LOL
November 28th, 2009 at 8:48 pm
Who’d like a happy pill or two?
November 28th, 2009 at 8:50 pm
@skopskiet: who would you prefer at 9/10?
November 28th, 2009 at 8:51 pm
@sglazer: which springbok coach was the best head coach in the country when they were appointed, markgraaf, straeuli, viljoen, white?
November 28th, 2009 at 8:54 pm
@Transformation:
Heyneke Meyer. he was the other coach nominated for the position. PDV was appointed for reasons other than rugby alone. Official statement.
November 28th, 2009 at 8:54 pm
@TheTackler: no need… we won the world cup, lions series and tri-nations. Be positive… and I saw the Proteas did well
November 28th, 2009 at 8:55 pm
@AndrewBK: I said it at the beginning or the year already. We need an alternative at 9. FdP is brilliant, but he needs an understudy. Before January became fat and slow he and FdP actually complemented each other quite nicely.
I say bring in Vermaak. Adams is too old and Kockott is too much of a hothead.
Fly-half is more tricky. Pienaar has had his moments, but he’s not a no. 10
I would love to see Grant being given a chance. He is way under rated.
November 28th, 2009 at 8:57 pm
@skopskiet: sadly, i agree with you on morne steyn.
ruan was dropped for missing kicks and all we got was another louis koen.
November 28th, 2009 at 8:58 pm
@sglazer: That official statement was bad blood between Hoskins and PdV. Hoskins really screwed PdV there. No matter how well he does and how many records he breaks, that one sentence that Hoskins uttered will always be a dark cloud over his career.
November 28th, 2009 at 9:00 pm
@siener: But it was the truth. He cast the tie-breaking vote. And one can see: PDV has been appointed too early in his career. It’s obvious.
November 28th, 2009 at 9:00 pm
@rangerman: Well said. Morne looked well rounded in the S14, but from there on he became more and more one dimensional.
November 28th, 2009 at 9:00 pm
can guarantee you without a doubt that Adams or S. Pretorius alongside Pienaar would be 1000 times improvement on Fdp and M. Steyn.
And Fdp touted is best rugby player in the world. IRB player of the year aware nominee. Ha call another rouse what a f.ng joke. Bod showed Fdp loud and clear who the superior rugby player is today.
Anybody watch how Genia feeds his backline today in Aus routing of Wales while Fdp and M. Steyn f’ak up every front foot ball we get. F.ng pathetic useless players the both of them.
November 28th, 2009 at 9:01 pm
@sglazer: @sglazer: were any of the other coaches i listed the best in the country when they were appointed? And please this time answer the question.
November 28th, 2009 at 9:01 pm
33-12 final score.
November 28th, 2009 at 9:01 pm
@siener: Hoskins cast the tie-breaking vote in favour of PDV. It wasn’t bad blood. It couldn’t have been or he wouldn’t have voted in favour of the man.
November 28th, 2009 at 9:02 pm
@Transformation:
It’s off the point. It has nothing to do with whether PDV is the best head coach in the country now.
November 28th, 2009 at 9:03 pm
Looks like Ruan has been giving Morne kicking lessons
November 28th, 2009 at 9:03 pm
@siener: I reckon the benchmark we should be looking to is our win in Perth. We ran brilliantly and controlled the game (last 15 minutes aside). We did this with Morne at 10, so why can’t we do it again?
I personally think we are seriously lacking a versatile world class 12 (eg Berrick Barnes) and on this tour is showed.
November 28th, 2009 at 9:03 pm
@sglazer: I totally disagree. Too early in his career? His CV is twice as long as White’s was when he was appointed.
The results have also been in PdV’s favour. Records broken all over the place.
PdV’s first two years is so much better than White’s first two that it shouldn’t even be mentioned in the same breath. People have very short memories.
November 28th, 2009 at 9:04 pm
Hey did the Boks really win IRB team of the year!?
November 28th, 2009 at 9:04 pm
@skopskiet: Who’d you replace FdP with?
November 28th, 2009 at 9:04 pm
@siener:
The results are in his favour because a world-beating team was already forged when he arrived on the scene
November 28th, 2009 at 9:05 pm
Morne Steyn really has struggled in the northern hemisphere…
November 28th, 2009 at 9:06 pm
@skopskiet: You’re the most fickle critic I’ve ever come across.
November 28th, 2009 at 9:09 pm
@SpringbokSarah: Yepp
November 28th, 2009 at 9:11 pm
@AndrewBK: hey we’re the shiz!
November 28th, 2009 at 9:11 pm
i think we missed frans steyn so much today it cannot be overestimated.
we were stuck in our own territory for so much of the game and even penalties gave us no relief as we couldnt use them effectively.
anyone who still thinks bj (carthorse) botha or morne (upandunder) steyn are the answer should think again.
anyways, stay well and well done irish!
tjorts!
November 28th, 2009 at 9:11 pm
The reason why our backline play is so **** is because there are no WP players (JDV was not first choice for the match). How on earth can you play a Bok backline without any WP players. It`s just not rugby. Grant and JDV must be starters and Joe Pietersen on the bench as impact player ala Russell.
November 28th, 2009 at 9:11 pm
@sglazer: Sure, he had much more to start with that White had, but it is quite interesting that this “world-beating team” did much better under PdV than they ever did under White.
Today was a very good example of the limitations we had under White. Today’s game in terms of selection and of game plan was the closest we’ve been to what JW would have done (except that JW would never have selected Brussow) and we got the same results as he did.
Like I said earlier: Today PdV fell back on the comfort zone that he inherited from JW and paid the price for it.
November 28th, 2009 at 9:12 pm
@skopskiet: Pienaar can’t kick for **** and Adams was average as hell against the Saracens.
The fact of the matter is. The current crop of players are breaking down and there aren’t any decent players coming through because CC coaches insist on playing every Bok to fuel their greedy desire for success!
I blame the provincial coaches for this travesty of a tour! No new talent is being developed thanks to them! Dark days ahead for the Boks. 2010 will be a nightmare year. Its going to take around 5 years to develop world-class players to replace the present veterans.
November 28th, 2009 at 9:15 pm
@sglazer: a world beating team that entered the world cup @ no4 in the rankings would’ve been forged already even if heyneke meyer had been appointed. The question is what has pdv done with the same team?
November 28th, 2009 at 9:19 pm
@Transformation:
He has largely kept it together. For that he deserves credit. Beyond that, he has blundered.
November 28th, 2009 at 9:21 pm
@siener:
They won the World Cup, which was a defining moment in forging the team as world-beaters. It’s a process that creates the forging.
November 28th, 2009 at 9:23 pm
go to hell crouching dickwit While Adams and Pienaar were running the backline we were all over Saracens you idiot or perhaps your eyes where up your crouching ***.. Soon as Hougaard came on second half and started his Fdp cloning act of kicking every f.ng ball up in the air we got charged down and lost the game. While Adams was feeding that backline it was cooking till the twat *** quota Hougaard came on and stuffed it all up big time. Same as Fdp and M. Steyn been f.ng up every game and every ball they get on the front foot. Fdp the slowest distributor from the base of a scrum I’ve yet to see and M. Steyn the most one dimensional one trial pony deep in the pocket useless flat footed non playing fly half I’ve yet to see maybe as good as Louis Koen or Jannie de Beer. In fact I think Jannie de Beer a whole lot more intuitive than M. Steyn will eves be.
We want to fix our back line drop Fdp and M. Steyn. Play Sarel Pretorius and Pienaar or Grant or even JL Potgieter asap.
November 28th, 2009 at 9:26 pm
Theres a massive overreaction to the result here. People demanding changes everywhere and seemed to have forgotton the year the Boks had.
It was a decent win today for Ireland without playing their best. They butchered a few tries etc but in all deserved the win.
November 28th, 2009 at 9:30 pm
@skopskiet:
How come FdP turned a vilain from a Hero in a space of two months?
He was hailed as the master of winning the Tri Nations and the B&ILs series?
While I think he kicks away far too much, no doubts he merely follows a game plan decided by coach and captain.
he is too assertive but that’s the Bulls’ – formerly Nord Transvl – style srumhalf: Robert Du Preez, Johan Roux and Joost, take it or leave it.
it’s true that Ruan cannot succeed with FdP at No 9
November 28th, 2009 at 9:30 pm
@Transformation:
It may sound critical, but I don’t mean it this way. He has been appointed too early in his career and is therefore out of his depth. Hence he has blundered.
His appointment was expedient, a short-cut, which has cost him and our rugby.
Every time this is done, it’s the same outcome. Yet, it’s tempting to the immature parts of us, rather than using time to mature, which leads to success.
November 28th, 2009 at 9:32 pm
@skopskiet: no need to get worked up… you taught me that
November 28th, 2009 at 9:34 pm
sorry Crouchety shouldn’t really go at you like that but you really suffer from same blind malady that most ignorants Saffa’s do.
Fdp and M. Steyn were both hugely instrumental in our loss today. I been watching how the been getting steadily more and hopeless and one dimensional useless game by game. I fear there’s no going back, only option is drop them both.
Bok’s played like palooka’s without any motion of confidence in their running game. We have regressed all the way back to the same bunch of twat *** one dimensional robots we were in 2007. Much rather lose running the ball than lose kicking it up in the air to no mans land.
November 28th, 2009 at 9:36 pm
Skopskiet, calm down, you weaken your point of view by your ridiculous sarcasm and personal attacks. Rather stick to the facts and we may want to listen to you.
November 28th, 2009 at 9:40 pm
@sglazer: you’re quite right jake hadn’t matured too when he took over the boks, he needed a bit of currie cup & super14 experience, i mean we could’ve avoided the 49-0 debacles and the disaster that was the year 2006…
November 28th, 2009 at 9:41 pm
@skopskiet:
What about Braam van Straten?
November 28th, 2009 at 9:42 pm
Fdp never been my favored player. Always seen him to be extremely limited as a distributing scrum half. I’ve said it a hundred times before that had we stuck with January and Grant last year we would have won the tri nations. The decision to revert to Fdp and Butch James killed our running game last year stood dead.
Fdp is a bit of an idiot and a cry baby to boot. I never been a fan of his one of the biggest prima donna’s in our team. Opportunistic at times with a big boot gets him high accolades but as a decent quick service distributing scrum half he’s one of the worst around.
Adams could teach Fdp a whole lot about decent fast efficient service to the backline thats all you want from a scrum half, none of this individualist prima donna stuff.
November 28th, 2009 at 9:46 pm
Guys, guys – don’t fall into the old SH trap of analysing the game from only one team’s perspective. Ireland played too and, over the 80 minutes, we probably deserved our victory. O’Connell and co today did a bit of a number on the Springboks in the 2nd half. So we see Ireland winning it as opposed to SA losing.
You have a fine team, but with a bit too much reliance at the moment on bullying and kicking – but so what! You have the players to go on: there’s not a whole lot wrong there.
Ireland are maximising our strengths currently and we have some really useful players too – maybe you should look at that a bit.
November 28th, 2009 at 9:46 pm
@Transformation:
You seem to be fixated on the past
November 28th, 2009 at 9:46 pm
@skopskiet: GRANT!
November 28th, 2009 at 9:48 pm
@sglazer: da past has passed… look da future… time travel, world war 3, rugby on the moon
November 28th, 2009 at 9:59 pm
Robert Du Preez, Johann Roux not great. Joost apart from being big was actually a far better running game proponent than Fdp will ever be. Joost and Honiball were lethal together. Would destroy Fdp and M. Steyn every single time on the trot.
Braam van Straaten or Louis Koen most one dimensional fly halves we could produce. At least Braam had some winning instinct while Louis a total useless dead loss. M. Steyn fast following in such one dimensional footsteps.
November 28th, 2009 at 10:07 pm
@skopskiet: You’re one rude little **** you know that?! Where exactly did I start insulting you?! I was merely questioning your reasons for dropping FdP and I get this filth in return from you! You are one massive foul mouthed piece of **** thats for sure!
November 28th, 2009 at 10:15 pm
Unbelievable! A few days ago everyone was saying: “Great team, strongest bench yet, JdV back.”
Well the whole JS to hooker, WO/JF partnership looking ordinary, etc.
Now its PdV’s fault again… Ha ha ha
November 28th, 2009 at 10:15 pm
“but you really suffer from same blind malady that most ignorants Saffa’s do” – who the kak are you to pass judgement on me when you don’t even freakin know me?! Eish you have to be one of the most arrogant little sods around!
You just make stuff up skop. I never defended FdP – he was really poor today. I do think he can really play well sometimes. Just look back to the 3rd ABs test! But I’m not all that convinced by Adams either. In my opinion new talented players are not being developed because greedy provincial coaches want to play the best players with their “win at all costs” kak attitudes. There’s a huge gap between standards developing as a result.
Why Deysel wasn’t used today is beyond me. Rossouw was hondkak as was Kirchner. Zane must never play in a Bok jersey again. He’s worse than Jantjies. Frans Steyn, Deysel and Ashley Johnson should’ve been on the pitch today.
November 28th, 2009 at 10:17 pm
@RaynoG: I’ve had enough of the chances afforded to Olivier and Kirchner. Both must never play for the Boks again. Both utter hondkak! I can’t understand how PdV fails to use a player like Deysel on the bench. He should’ve come on at 60 mins. PdV and Muir are a bit overrated in my book.
November 28th, 2009 at 10:19 pm
@sglazer: as much as you’re fixated on undermining & discrediting the current coach.
November 28th, 2009 at 10:23 pm
@Crouching Tiger Hidden Bokke: 168 – Well said mate. WE should have had Fransie there today also why the heck did Deysel not come on? Why play him against Italy? He gets a feel to play with the team plays well then he never gets to come on today but Potties does and also throws a forwad pass when he came on.
Like I said. SELECTION, SELECTION AND ONCE AGAIN SELECTION will always cost us.
Just like buying a house. You buy it in the wrong locaction you will always lose out. LOCATION AND ALWAYS LOCATION when buying house otherwise you too will lose out when selling.
Same goes for sport. SELECTION is always key.
November 28th, 2009 at 10:25 pm
Anyhow. WELL DONE TO SA for winning team award of the year. Now I just don’t understand why we never got coach of the year award too. If the team wins it then it is natural for the coach to win it too. Really something not right there.
Now really hoping that FdP wins Player of the Year. He deserves it.
November 28th, 2009 at 10:28 pm
Missing our kicking at goal cost us really the most. Had we got those 4 penalties we would have won. Just think 12 points went begging there. Boks should have had 22 and Ireland 15. If we don’t get those over we will never win. That cost us huge today.
November 28th, 2009 at 10:29 pm
We were stupit to let Gert Smal go too. Just shows you what a good forward coach can do. Gary Gold just not at the same standard as Smal.
November 28th, 2009 at 10:30 pm
meant – stupid
November 28th, 2009 at 10:36 pm
@Puma: Our kicking really let us down. Why didn’t we run the ball more? Its really disappointing to see such boring kick and chase rugby being played. When we ran the ball we scored a try. Burger’s try was the perfect start. From there the floodgates should’ve opened. Just look at the ABs playing France – its quick,recycled ball all the time. They’re 3 tries up and look like they’re going to give France one hell of a pumping.
November 28th, 2009 at 10:41 pm
@Crouching Tiger Hidden Bokke:
Yip, so true, the AB’s are sublime, no “tiredness” to be seen.
November 28th, 2009 at 10:43 pm
@Robzim: ABs are going to kill us next year. I’m not going to be watching much rugby next year. A whole world of pain waiting to engulf the Sharks and the Boks.
November 28th, 2009 at 10:47 pm
@Crouching Tiger Hidden Bokke:
Unfortunately I feel the same. Imo the team has peaked and will now start to go down unless the coaching staff (and selectors) can come up with something fresh (ideas and a few players).
Do not hold your breath.
November 28th, 2009 at 10:49 pm
@Transformation:
I’m not. I just think he’s been appointed before the right time, to his and our rugby’s detriment, and he isn’t the best head coach in SA at present.
November 28th, 2009 at 10:51 pm
@Transformation:
I think you’re undermining his predecessor to prop him up
November 28th, 2009 at 10:55 pm
@Robzim: Its so damn depressing.
November 28th, 2009 at 10:58 pm
why the hell did they take BJ Botha off….?
November 28th, 2009 at 11:03 pm
I am convinced at least 2 of that pack today not gonna be at wc 2011….Smit and Matfield…..
seriously, we need to rebuild.
At least we scrummed like demons….until some wally took BJ off!!
November 28th, 2009 at 11:11 pm
@grant10: what was he doing to merit staying on grant?
he wasnt making cover tackles, we werent scrumming in their 22m, we werent benefitting from his lifting in the lineouts, and strangely enough, we looked more dangerous in the last 10mins than in any period barring the first 7mins.
what part of “win the scrums, yet lose the game” did you miss?
November 28th, 2009 at 11:13 pm
@rangerman: ja….you 100% right boet….Smit back to 3…way to go.
And BJ to Stormers….Thanks
November 28th, 2009 at 11:14 pm
@grant10: fark you are amusing grant.
what exactly did “scrumming like demons” do for us grant?
mate, your whole philosophy is in tatters tonight, but if you want to put on a brave face then i will understand.
November 28th, 2009 at 11:16 pm
@rangerman: No…Smit back to 3 is the answer….
BJ and Cj to Stormers…please keep Smit at 3 at Sharks…please boet!!!
November 28th, 2009 at 11:18 pm
@Puma: And there I was thinking that Potties actually did very well when he passed to Ruan, which by the way was the only pass he made in his time on the field. It certainly wasn’t forward, or else the ref would’ve blown it up.
As for him being sent on at that critical stage in stead of Deysel, maybe the answer lies in the fact that Deysel missed his first few tackles against Italy, and though far be it from me to purport to speak on behalf of the coaches, maybe they felt that they could not risk a recurrence at that critical stage of today’s game.
And then again, maybe they just wanted to reward an excellent player and one for whom they see a future in SA Rugby with his first cap, much as they did with Deysel versus Italy. Who knows?
November 28th, 2009 at 11:18 pm
@Crouching Tiger Hidden Bokke:
Zane were one of the better players on the field.
Get another player of color to blame.
November 28th, 2009 at 11:19 pm
Ranger….you are a fool….really…a fool…
I sincerely believe you know f all about rugby.
Anyway, BJ was about 100 times the tighthead smit was and will ever be….
And seriously…if you disagree with me….thats fine….For once Jake and i agree….Smit at 2 or retirement …..or would you rather he go back to boks at 3?
November 28th, 2009 at 11:19 pm
@rugby lover:
oh I forgot AD and Earl is not there so who you gonna blame
November 28th, 2009 at 11:20 pm
@grant10: what are you on about grant?
against a WEAK scrumming nation, the scrum counted for ZERO points for us.
mate, you amuse me no end. after ONE succesful scrum against italy, you cream yourself and reckon you are keo’s gift to rugby analysts, conveniently ignoring ANY successes the bok scrum had with JS at 3.
and now we lost because BJ went off?
*** me, i cant wait to hear more of your amazing analysis grant. let me guess, JS wasnt “keeping his end up” and being “the cornerstone of the scrum” so we lost because obviously BJ is the saviour of the boks.
i mean, the boks won last year and this year with JS at 3, but after a win against mighty italy, i agree, JS must just piss off!
November 28th, 2009 at 11:23 pm
@rangerman: ranger…you bore me boet….really you do….
Go chat with ratel brussow or some other shark 1 eyed supporter….i find you a waste of time.
If you cant acknowledge the huge positive difference in the scrum….you quite simply an imbecile….
November 28th, 2009 at 11:23 pm
@grant10: no need to get all serious now grantie.
i bow down before your superior knowledge, oh seer and all knowing rugby guru.
but i think you spend too much time on the beach in your speedo and too little time actually playing rugby pal.
dont get cute with me mate, argue the points old boy.
November 28th, 2009 at 11:24 pm
and rangerman….Smit to 2 you twit!!! Never said he must piss off wanker!!
November 28th, 2009 at 11:25 pm
@rugby lover: Whats colour got to do with it? Oh sorry I forgot in the new SA we’re not allowed to criticise anyone who isn’t white even if they’re complete hondkak!
November 28th, 2009 at 11:25 pm
@grant10: again grantie, what did the scrum achieve for us tonight?
did you even notice bj in the loose?
me either.
thats because he wasnt present. but ja, he can for like to push in the scrum.
dinosaur.
November 28th, 2009 at 11:26 pm
@rangerman: Sharkie….perhaps i know a little more about this game and played at a level a little higher than you….go play touch doos!
November 28th, 2009 at 11:27 pm
@rangerman: F off. You a little bore man….
Go make jokes somewhere….you know sweet f all about rugby…..f all!
November 28th, 2009 at 11:27 pm
@grant10: hmmm…….
classy.
wanker?
i think its maybe time for bed grant eh?
before you seriously make an arse of yourself.
November 28th, 2009 at 11:27 pm
@rugby lover: Lol that’s bit of a joke seeing as Adi is one of my favourite players along with Habana and JPP.
I called for Adi to be picked last year and was delighted when he made it into the team, Unfortunately he’s not on form at the moment.
So do me favour you great big doos and GROW UP!
November 28th, 2009 at 11:29 pm
@Crouching Tiger Hidden Bokke: I have been watching you’re comments for a while and you always seem to have criticism towards the players of color, maybe its coincidence or maybe you just one of those disgruntled Boors living in Australia. Any way Does not matter ,just an observation.
November 28th, 2009 at 11:31 pm
@Crouching Tiger Hidden Bokke: If that’s the case then I will humbly have to apologize as I must have confused you with someone else.
November 28th, 2009 at 11:32 pm
@grant10: wow!
grant, you are seriously pulling out all the stops mate.
you havent argued a single point i have brought up and simply resorted to insults and bluster.
mate, you seriously need to up your game if you think you are going to rattle me with nonsense and platitudes.
silly man
p.s. breaking news! JS will be TH for the forseeable future after bj, cj and any other j couldnt ensure a win just because they can for like to scrum.
November 28th, 2009 at 11:36 pm
@rugby lover: What are you my stalker?! Nice spelling of boers there.
Always seem to have criticism towards players of colour? If I think a player has played kak I’m gonna say it ok – I dont care what colour they are.
You’re just some jumped little wind-up merchant who is looking for a fight.
I’m not a boer and I’m seriously not disgruntled. I was in SA last week and I’m seriously considering moving back. I loved every minute of it.
I make a few comments about Ndungane not being up to scratch and suddenly I’m a racist? LOOLLLLL!!! That makes me laugh because most of my favourite Bok players aren’t white – Beast, Habs, JPP, Adi – I was also calling for Mapoe to be picked on this tour and for Johnson to be in at no.8. Critcising one black player does not make you a racist.
So like I say piss off and grow up!
November 28th, 2009 at 11:37 pm
@rangerman: Yes please!!! Sharks 3 Smit….bring it on!
Fact is he may retire …..thanks to idiots making the poor oke play out of position.
Personally i have never seen a better Bok scrum in 10 years than BJ…Smit and beast….the 20 min vs Italy and 50 min today…that without bakkies as well….
Seems a retreating scrum equals a good thing in your eyes?
Ag, this is so childish….Ranger…leave my posts alone and i will ignore yours….
You not worth the kak man!
November 28th, 2009 at 11:38 pm
Grants list of names for the ranger so far tonight:
fool, twit, imbecile, doos, little man, wanker, little bore.
wow!
all of this from a guy who reckons schalk is a loser for allegedly being on the beach and smit is a loser for speaking his mind about how the squad saw luke watson in 2008.
fortunately i take these kind of things from where they come.
November 28th, 2009 at 11:38 pm
@rugby lover: Yes I think you have. Think before you act next time and perhaps learn not to be so judgemental in the future – this is will hopefully come in time for you as you mature into an adult.
November 28th, 2009 at 11:39 pm
@Crouching Tiger Hidden Bokke: I would tell you to piss off but it seems you already did.
Some advice, don’t come back guys with you’re mentality will never be happy in SA again.
November 28th, 2009 at 11:40 pm
@rugby lover: What exactly is my mentality?
November 28th, 2009 at 11:42 pm
@grant10: ok, lets agree to ignore each other.
how terribly mature.
but before you ignore my other posts, just remember to go *** yourself pal.
if you want to throw insults around then rather dont address me.
if you are happy to discuss rugby then you will find me here from time to time.
now go sleep it off.
November 28th, 2009 at 11:46 pm
crikey…
November 28th, 2009 at 11:48 pm
thank you pdv and the springbok team for all the great memories of 2009.have a good rest now.
November 28th, 2009 at 11:49 pm
@gunther: hehehe…
little tiff between mates gunther,
nothing serious, just post-bok-loss syndrome.
November 28th, 2009 at 11:52 pm
@Valkyrie: i second that!
November 28th, 2009 at 11:56 pm
@grant10: I agree. What’s the old addage? Something along the lines of “if it aint broke don’t fix it!” BJ should’ve seen the game out. Problem was Smit’s throwing, or so our coaches saw it, so they sent Bissie on. But actually, Smit’s throws weren’t the real problem- it was more Gert Smal’s input and their excellent reading of our line-out calls that got into Smittie’s head.
But let’s be honest here, stick a fresh Vic and Bakkies behind the three musketeers and there isn’t much to worry about. As backup for Vic I wouldn’t look much further than Bekker, and as for Bakkies’ back-up. I believe we could do worse than look at and develop Juan Smith. That way we ensure that both he and Bakkies are spelled and rested to prolong their playing careers.
It might even solve a headache or two for Naka in the S14. He doesn’t have depth at lock and is sitting on some serious loosie talent like Brussow and Kitshoff (and Kabamba) at 6, Frans Viljoen and Francois Uys(and Raubenheimer) at 7 and Ashley Johnson and Hendro Scholtz at 8, and then he hasn’t touched some excellent youngsters putting up their hands.
Add to those mentioned above as Bok tight 5 Wian duP, CJ, Heinke and Coenie Oosthuizen and I reckon we are a lot better off at prop than what we realize, and with Bissie, Adriaan Strauss, Tiaan Liebenberg and a resurgent Gary Botha all vieing for Smitties spot they just might keep him honest.
Which brings us to loosies and 6, where I reckon Brussow and Stegman are in a league of their own as fetchers, if that’s the route we decide to go. At 7 I would look at the likes of Pierre Spies(1st choice for his speed), Duanne Vermeulen and Schalk Burger, and I would look at developing Pottie at 8 with Ashley Johnson and Pieter Louw as back-up. And there are other guys like Willem Alberts and Nick Koster who can show their hands as well, so I reckon that resources wise we have the ammunition.
What we need to do is to reach consensus on the pattern we want to play and then focus our attention at working that plan.
November 29th, 2009 at 12:08 am
@catleya: Ja….i believe 2010 must be about rotation and specialisation.
I can tell you now PDV is going to make some changes and go for some young blood….he is scared this bok teams pack is gonns do an England post 2003….
Personally i feel Smit can only get to 2011 if he stays at 2….he simply is not a 3…read the weekend Argus and Jake whites comments today….an eye opener of note.
BJ,CJ,WP Nel all in the hunt….but BJ was brilliant today, now thats a real tighthead.
Dewalt will have a chance to captain boks in 2011 if Matfield and Smit dont make it….and dont be surprised if Smit retires now!
November 29th, 2009 at 12:23 am
Smit’s won everything there is to win, so I guess he’ll find it hard to keep his motivation up there if he were to say pick up a serious injury. Same applies to Matfield. So anything is possible. Anyway, thanks for the chat. That’s me off to bed.!
November 29th, 2009 at 12:26 am
@catleya: me too…cheers boet
November 29th, 2009 at 12:43 am
@grant10: bj was absolutely brilliant today!hopefully he will be heading home next year because the number3 position is his to lose now imo.smith or bissy at two and this bok scrum looks good come2011.
November 29th, 2009 at 2:36 am
Smitty’s be pushing nothing more than a Zimmer frame by 2011. He’s over the hill now already.
November 29th, 2009 at 2:37 am
@rangerman: Bushy & Grant don’t make me lose faith in this site. You are both great guys, who of all people, should not be slinging it at each other.
With the return of the gutter-trash, I hope you guys can at least stay above it.
If only for the sake of normal, decency.
And common sense.
And mature adult behaviour.
November 29th, 2009 at 2:43 am
Guys,
Money talks!
As Pdv said: “Money buys the whisky”
I got it 4 out of 5 times RIGHT with the bookies, both results AND the spreads!
The Secret? a total non biased observation, let’s drop all the colour preferences, it has no place in sport and thus must be condemned.
I say again, with Fran Styen at 15 and CJ/WdP @ LH the Boks would have won it by a 12-21 margin.
The Beast is detrimental to the tight game, a great source of enthropy and mayhem among the Boks’ forwards.
Kirshner is a giveaway, like another imposter Jantjes, plenty of action but no substance and no useful work.
If you insist on a colour ‘balance’ then you need not look further than Mapoe and Johnson next season, Mapoe can step staright into JP position, Johnson needs to show that he can do more at tackling the ball carrier than merely jumping on the top of the mound but he has the attributes, the physics and the skills, too bad that Floor isn’t 20kg heavier and 10 cm taller.
Raubenheimer, Adams, Maku, Nokwe? even PdV doesn’t rate them, why should we?
November 29th, 2009 at 3:32 am
Wow, this last loss has really put everyone in one helluva bad mood. Okes rauling left right and centre here.
November 29th, 2009 at 3:34 am
Yikes!!!!
Pistols at dawn!!
November 29th, 2009 at 3:36 am
@Hondo: Agree on Kirchner and Jantjes (what a useless fullback lets hope he doesnt return to the mix in 2010)
Johnson has potential but really if youre looking for extra beef at 8 then we need to be speaking of Alberts. For colour sake yes Johnson. But imho Alberts far better – if we´d had a combo of 6 Brussouw, 7 Deysel and 8 Alberts today with Bakkies at 4 it would have been a different thing.
Starting to agree with Skop about all the kicking from FDP and M Steyn as well as occasional stupid boots from other backline players and Kirchner. We just kicked the game away. It was pathetic to watch.
November 29th, 2009 at 3:45 am
My current best team would be:
first choice/ sub
1 Beast/ Wian du Preez
2 Smit/ Bismarck
3 BJ/ WP Nel
4 Bakkies/ Anton van Zyl
5 Mallet/ Becker
6 Brussouw/ Potgieter
7 Smith/ Deysel
8 Spies/ Alberts
9 Fourie du Preez (if he stops kicking)/ Jano Vermaak
10 M Steyn (no choices)/ Peter Grant???
11 Habana/ Nokwe or Chavanga
12 Jean de Villiers/ Wynand Olivier
13 Jacques Fourie/ Juan de Jongh
14 Lionel Mapoe/ JP Pietersen
15 Frans Steyn/ Louis Ludik
Some contentious choices but nothing is set in stone.
You could include a fit Heinke vd Merwe, CJ, Sarel Pretorius, Mvovo perhaps for future, Perhaps Ebersohn but size an issue, Aplon an option to consider – his defence in CC semi was huge, Juries perhaps, and really on current form its ridiculous excluding Stefan Terblanche
November 29th, 2009 at 9:56 am
Hey Rangerman – funny to expose that Gwant10 makes a million posts but is hardly analytical, but there again keow is really a pace for ranters like skoppie, xhosa etc who love to use words like useless, pathetic, hopeless etc about players who are in the world top 10, sure they have bad games. Also very funny to see thatthe kick & chase is John Smit’s idea/ It’s that tik again bru, particularly the cheap stuff. Stay away from tik and keo.
Catleya – nice thinking.
My little take. We lack super coaching. Ireland and ou Gert saw us coming and while we spent the week developing the scrum; we forgot the lineout. I’ll go with Ranger – rather a weakish scrum than hopeless lineout!
We need to realise that the world moves on. Kick and chase worked against NZ and Oz who had some inexperienced players (Oz) and weren’t expecting it (NZ). So their return tactics have sharpened up. Kearney is fantastic under the high ball and we have few real chasers (Kirchner did well). We let him get the ball then tackle, tackle, tackle. Not so clever.
Like Jake’s rush defence SA need to move on. We have many excellent players (despite wot grant, skoppie et al rant about). All they need is coaching. PdV is an excellent motivator but we need a few people as tacticians, analysts, individual coaches (not a woodward tribe though). DM and GG are good but not excellent or that experienced.
November 29th, 2009 at 10:22 am
@rangerman: @grant10: Eish!
hope the heads aren’t too sore this morning. Cricket is on and it’s a lovely day!
What does this tour tell us about the Boks? Not a lot. SA have never been that good at travelling have they? FWIW I would use 2010 to blood the next gen of player, Bekker for Matfield is my bolter for PDV selection shocks next season. Vic is an awesome player but he won’t make 2011 in peak condition so Bekker must play now. Smit may choose to retire which I am fine with, what a player and what a leader but he also won’t make 2011 in my view.
Boks are the team of 2009 and there isn’t a blogger alive who would argue otherwise, this tour changes nothing!
November 29th, 2009 at 1:19 pm
Hope you guys noticed how the South African players ran straight down the tunnel and refused to clap the Irish team off. Pretty petty I would say. Got their asses handed to them and ran away crying.
November 29th, 2009 at 2:16 pm
@Slumtown:
I agree wholesaly
My point is, if someone does insist on players of colour, they need the credentials FIRST
Albert, Vermulen and Spies are in contention but Johnson can come 4th or 5th, all the three 1st choice have history of long injuries so Johonson may get the nod on merit!
He plays the game the way it should
November 29th, 2009 at 2:16 pm
@DDP: How exactly did we get our asses handed to us? Ireland failed to score one try! It was all down to their 16th man – mr moffie Nigel Owens! We were really poor but Ireland got nowhere near to crossing our line. The refereeing yesterday was a disgrace.
November 29th, 2009 at 2:18 pm
@Hondo: Johnson should’ve at least been on the bench. Would’ve been very interested to see him, Deysel and Brussouw playing as a loose trio,
November 29th, 2009 at 2:18 pm
@Slumtown:
So,
Ebersohn’s weight is an issue but Aplon’ weight is adequate?
Wow
November 29th, 2009 at 2:29 pm
@DDP: don’t see ghosts behind every tree now mate.if you are irish enjoy the victory but i have to say you guys are a funny bunch out there in the green isles.i see your rugby experts are talking about the world cup again just like in 2006 when you beat the boks and the aussies and we all now know what the end result was.i just love irish optimism!
November 29th, 2009 at 5:26 pm
@grant10: Pretty garbage responses from you Grant, to a very valid question…you’ve been preaching the gospel of good scrums=won games for months, but I agree with Ranger, BJ was all but invisible. And where does go-forward in the scrum get us when all our scrummie and flyhalf or wings do is box kick or up and under???? Or give it to WO who runs sideways like a crab into touch? Scrum domination is an important part of a well rounded team, but the concept that it is the overiding factor in rugby success died out with the dinosaurs. Last night proved that. We creamed them in the scrums in the first half and what did it get us? A measly 4 point lead, and we couldn’t put a single point on in the second….What about our borng one-dimensional kick an dhunt? What about our lineouts which sucked? Or them smashing us in the rucks and dominating the physical contests? These all contributed to the loss,not ONLY that BJ went off.
November 29th, 2009 at 5:31 pm
One thing that had me seeing red and spitting bile and acid: A few minutes left in the game, JdV breaks down the left wing and gets into some serious pace. JPP on his shoulder when he makes the break, he SLOWS DOWN to a canter, leaving Jean to sprint into space on his own, looking around for the offload while the laziest springbok ever to wear a Bok jersey jogs along 5 metres behind!! JdV Goes to ground and JP half-arsedly joins the ruck – absolutely a massive try opportunity left out there to rot – I mean WTF!!!!???? Anyone else see it the way i did? Or did I miss something?
*&*(*^*&%*^!!!!!!!
November 29th, 2009 at 10:56 pm
@catleya: Nice post- every onelese on this site are acting like a bunch of 12 years olds with hangovers…
November 29th, 2009 at 11:46 pm
@Atreides: Its simple- we need to be good in all aspects of the set pieces – not just one of them – forr securing your own possession. I reckon lineouts is the most important, but scrums do a lot for morale.
But this counts for nothing is you can DO BUGGER ALL with said possession…
And the complete lack of variation in our game plan can either be laid at the feet of the coaches, or Morne Steyn. Lack of variaton makes us easy to defnd against. You need tomake a team expect ioe thing , and produce another.
As soon as Ruaan Pienaar came on, and started varying play down the wings, it kept them guessing and we made good ground. In fact within two phases we nearly had a try by Beast.
But did Pienaar play like that under orders, or because he has a better sense of variation and what is required of an international flyhalf? Did Morne play like that under orders, or because he was too lazy to change play?
I cannot figure it out myself.
November 30th, 2009 at 1:46 am
@grant10:
Is it stupidity or arrogance when one thinks they are higher than the other.
Maybe you played at a higher level but you could have been the useless player in the team that kept letting the team down.
Ranger may have been the player who was excellent that made the local team look professionals.
Have you met Ranger, have you played against Ranger?
If not…then you are childish!!
November 30th, 2009 at 1:50 am
@grant10:
You need to take your medication…right now is a good time!!
November 30th, 2009 at 8:20 am
@Atreides: You need a solid scrum for so many reasons, but agree you also need a player who can contribute in the tight-loose and do the lifting in the lineouts. If BJ can’t do these things as well as he can scrum then he is no good, but one thing is clear for me – PDV cannot in the name of good sense pick Smit as tighthead next year. The difference in the scrums was clear for all to see, a proper tighthead is needed but one who can also do damage with the ball in hand around the fringes and clean out the rucks when required. BJ may not be the answer to our prayers here but JS clearly isn’t!
The Boks also need to play the match situation better than they did on Saturday. Kearney and Bowe are superb under the high ball as a rule so why keep punting it to them? They are not Sivivatu and Rockocoko! It worked in the 3N against the ABs but that doesn’t make it alright for other teams. How many times did the Boks kick away decent possession? When Pienaar replaced Steyn I thought that would signal the end of the negative Blou Bul tactics but it didn’t! Some variation Boks please.