Boks lack Plan B
The European tour has underlined an old concern pertaining to South Africa’s inability to think outside the box.
The Boks only know how to play one way, but when it doesn’t work for them, they don’t have an alternate plan or means of breaking down the opposition. Brutal physicality will always be the bedrock of South African rugby, but the attacking play is in dire need of a revamp.
They were exposed in Toulouse and again at Croke Park. The French had them under pressure up front early in the fixture, and by half-time it was clear they couldn’t be beaten using typical tactics. In Dublin, the Boks employed the right tactics but their inaccuracy at flyhalf and in the set-pieces let them down badly. What was worrying about that match is that no one decided to change tack.
Marc Lievremont was wise to the bully boy tactics, and the talk in the week preceding that Test was about the Boks’ physicality. It seemed obvious what the Boks would do even before they left South Africa, and surely the Bok coaching staff should have expected this kind of response.
When asked about preparation in the aftermath, however, several Bok players said the French caught them by surprise. Come on. You come to France as the world champions and you have a reputation as the bullies of world rugby. What did you think France were going to do? Give you their lunch money?
Naivety aside, the senior Boks should have realised things weren’t going to work early on in the game and made a decision to change to Plan B. That’s what they should have done if there was a Plan B to change to.
Morne Steyn has had a fantastic year and I’m sure the IRB got it wrong – it wouldn’t be the first time (cough-Richie McCaw-cough) when they nominated Frans Steyn as a Player of the Year nominee. But Morne Steyn has been uncharacteristically shaky on this tour, and one wonders how bad his decision-making would have been had Fourie du Preez not been around to guide him.
Steyn was striking the ball horribly in Udine, but saved his worst performance with the boot for Dublin. He missed a few penalty punts and his tactical kicking left a lot to be desired especially since the Boks were playing with the wind in the first half. John Smit said it best when he pointed to two missed penalty kicks at the end of the half as potentially game-costing. Steyn, who sinks them from 50m on the highveld and at sea-level (ask Western Province) knows he should have done better.
Kicking is Steyn’s strength, but it worried to see him utilising so few of his other talents. By neglecting these, he underused his dangerous runners out wide. Jaque Fourie has been a force since returning to the starting line-up but has not received enough chances. Bryan Habana is living off scraps while JP Pietersen had a very quiet tour.
The Adi Jacobs experiment – what else would you call it – well and truly failed. Jacobs doesn’t have the build or skill set to be the kind of No 12 the Boks need and is more suited to the No 13 position. Jean de Villiers will be back in South Africa in time for the World Cup, but in the interim, the Boks should go with Wynand Olivier who had an outstanding game at Croke Park.
The future of Ruan Pienaar remains a mystery. He was Peter de Villiers’ first-choice flyhalf in June, but seems to have lost all confidence. He’ll undergo corrective surgery to his knee when he gets home, and one hopes he’ll be adequately prepared for the 2010 Super 14.
If he is to be the alternative to Steyn, he has to play flyhalf in the Super 14 and build some confidence. At present, he’s an erratic goal-kicker and perhaps something needs to be done to increase his mental strength. He’s also a fine attacking player who could provide the Boks with variety they need to truly evolve (and perhaps even develop a Plan B). Pienaar’s important, and it’s high time the powers that be stop treating him like a bit player.
One player who impressed during his short stint on tour was BJ Botha. So that’s what the Bok scrum looks like going forward. You could almost forgive the Bok inside backs for giving away possession given they’re so unaccustomed to go-forward ball from the scrum.
Botha’s another who wants to come back to South Africa and could be an important player if the Boks are going to defend their world title. Smit is fine player when he’s scrumming between Beast Mtawarira and Botha, but battled when he went back to tighthead in the dying stages of the Ireland game. Since it’s clear the Boks cant do without his leadership, maybe it’s time they pick a decent tighthead, pick Smit at hooker and leave Bismarck du Plessis on the bench. It’s the obvious sacrifice that needs to be made if the Boks are to retain leadership and scrumming strength.
The sad truth is the Bok management have no intention of moving Smit back to No 2 permanently. It’s truly a shame, as this South African side could explore their attacking capabilities if they were afforded a decent platform from the scrum.
By Jon Cardinelli, in Dublin
November 29th, 2009 at 6:37 am
No surprise, really. Plan B requires brains, not brawn.
November 29th, 2009 at 6:53 am
drop the overrated Bulls in the side, all of them. Fdp, M. Steyn, WO, ZK, VM
Maak die Bulle almal koeie useless bunch of kak sleg kop toe rubbish
November 29th, 2009 at 6:59 am
@TheTackler: Jy is doodreg daar, Oupa.
November 29th, 2009 at 7:07 am
well the boks have enough smarts to beat the abs 3 out of 3 this year and win 2 world cups tackles
but anyway tis exposed they fact that if we dont have a monster boot in steyn we canrt score
we need to stop playing chip and chase and start scoring trys full stop
November 29th, 2009 at 7:12 am
so who has won worlds player of they year was it Richie McCaw if so i dont think he deserved the boks won tri nations should go to one of them
November 29th, 2009 at 7:14 am
@skopskiet: If they are kak sleg, how useless must Province be to lose to them?
November 29th, 2009 at 7:14 am
The world champions reclaim the IRB Team of the Year Award from New Zealand, having previously won the prestigious honour in 2004 and 2007, and for captain John Smit the Award is recognition of a fantastic team ethic.
“It’s been a huge year for us and to top it off with a recognition like this, to secure the top prize is massive.
“It was a huge ambition of many of the guys to beat the British & Irish Lions, it was a goal to be victorious so that was a great highlight for us during the year,” said Smit.
November 29th, 2009 at 7:25 am
the no name brand province were beating the bully bokke after scoring the only try until that kak sleg south sea islander coat hanger tackled somebody and gave MS yet another chance to bale the sorry kak sleg koeie out their kak sleg misery yet again.
Nai those kak sleg kop to dom doos Bulle got sweet f.all idea about playing winning rugby. If it were me I’d drop that bunch of overrated kak sleg hopeless palooka’s like Fdp and Ms so fast, useless idiots can’t do sweet f.all except skop skop skop skop and skop again moer toe doer toe up in the f.ng air time and time and time again. Hopeless kak sleg rubbish idiot useless rugby players, drop the idiots before they cause any more kak sleg useless Blou Bulle damage. F.ng rubbish rugby players the both of them, and Vm, Wo, Zn not much better.
November 29th, 2009 at 7:27 am
@klippies101:
Well done.
That makes Leicester and Saracens even more proud
November 29th, 2009 at 7:36 am
As for JS hang onto Mr Immaculate till you go down clutching your last hopeless straws.
If these people cannot see that its past time for a major overhaul then we going down the f.ng plug hole so damn fast its f.ng scary.
Drop this entire kak sleg team and start again from scratch starting with Mr. Immaculate captain who couldn’t see that his kak sleg skop it in the air kick n chase kak sleg senior player rubbish tactics don’t f.ng work and they kept on keeping on skopping the thing up in the f.ng air all damn game long.
Smit couldn’t find Matfield in line outs. Front row were working for once and kak sleg one dimensional one trick ponies Fdp and Ms were f.ng it up behind the scrum like there’s no f.ng tomorrow.
Thank the living lord that somebody in the Irb got enough common sense not to give Irb player of the year to a kak sleg one dimensional dummy doos prima donna like Fdp, at least somebody up there got some eyes in their heads.
November 29th, 2009 at 7:48 am
If that last paragraph is correct of this arcticle….if the Boks intend reverting Smit to 3…..i will say it loud and clear….next season will be a disaster for the boks….2011 can well and truly be forgotten about….may as well hand over that trophy now already.
BJ Botha was immense, an absolute rock in that scrum…..in fact i will go as far to say that the last 20 min against Italy and the first 50 min against Ireland, without Bakkies, that was the best ever display of a Bok scrum i may ever have seen!
Beast,Smit and BJ are the way to go , the Bok scrum just achieved parity when BJ was subbed, but while he was on the boks had crushing ascendancy.
In such a close game it was insane to sub BJ, a real weapon who could of turned the match in the scrums the last half hour.
I am sterting to share skops frustration with the 9 and 10 axis, the endless kicking played into the hands of the Irish, not sure what the answers are there as Ruan looked decidedly shaky as well…..
Ai, problems…..
But if PDV is stupid enough to persist with Smit at 3 next season, i would be most surprised.
November 29th, 2009 at 7:48 am
New Zealand’s inspirational captain Richie McCaw has been named the International Rugby Board Player of the Year 2009 in association with Emirates Airline.
The 28-year-old was presented with the Award following the France v New Zealand test match in Marseille this evening and becomes the first person to have been awarded Rugby’s most prestigious individual accolade twice, having previously been named IRB Player of the Year in 2006.
since the boks beat the abs 3 out of 3 this year i dont think he should have got it but still well done to the man no point in having sour grapes
November 29th, 2009 at 7:49 am
Previous Winners
2001 – Keith Wood (Ireland)
2002 – Fabien Galthié (France)
2003 – Jonny Wilkinson (England)
2004 – Schalk Burger (South Africa)
2005 – Daniel Carter (New Zealand)
2006 – Richie McCaw (New Zealand)
2007 – Bryan Habana (South Africa)
2008 – Shane Williams (Wales)
November 29th, 2009 at 7:57 am
seriously believed H Brussow was the best on the planet in 2009…
November 29th, 2009 at 8:03 am
Ruan is shaky because he’s playing with next to zero confidence at the moment after nearly all his kicks seem to get attracted to the uprights like a needle to a magnet.
But even with all his wobbly knees shaking in their boots he’s still a better option than that one dimensional deep in the pocket hopelessly out his league skop it in the air one trick pony M. Steyn and his overrated palooka side kick Fdp who don’t know absolutely f.all about getting his backs away. Rubbish half back pairing the both of them. Drop them now. Best rugby player on the planet my sorry prima donna ***.
November 29th, 2009 at 8:06 am
This isn’t about sour grapes but WTC! How can some1 who was outclassed in 3 out of 3 games by some1 not even nominated by IRB, our own Ratel, then win Player of the year. HONESTLY!!
November 29th, 2009 at 8:11 am
@Papoose:
as i have said,an IRB player of the year dosnt deserved to be picked for only 3 games.
November 29th, 2009 at 8:12 am
Skop Ruan needs a whole super 1q4 at 10 …i hope he and the sharks are prepered for it …..
If so he must grasp the opportunity, Justrugby and i were talking about the lack of flair as the game progressed yesterday…..dammit we need someone to unlock those backs…
November 29th, 2009 at 8:22 am
Skop….what is your opinion on the front row?
Personally i was over the moon at the vastly improved scrumming display…all of a sudden front foot ball and the Irish endured 50 minutes of being pounded?
Do you see Smit back as a 3 as viable?
November 29th, 2009 at 8:23 am
@grant10: he is dumb enough. Thats the thing.
guys, under pdv we will continue to slide. He is just not good enough.
November 29th, 2009 at 8:24 am
Richie McCaw is still the class act open side player and leads his side with some maturity and distinction.
Nz gave the poor dismal Frogs a rugby lesson last night almost the same team that gave our overrated bully brekers a snot klap two weeks ago were smashed by 5 well worked AB tries.
Carter and McCaw with Smith Jane and Miliaina and Sivivatu are still a potent rugby force. They come over to the Nh and don’t concede a try and swat all NH opposition in their wake, while us overrated best Irb team of the year sorry sad fatigued blou blommetjie ballad singers get f’d up by Leicester, France, Saracens and Ireland on the trot.
And we still singing ballads about how we fluked a Bil’s tour and skop en hacked our way to a kick n chase glorified 3N win this year. Living on past wet dreams, just like Wc 2007. All these teary eyed drooms mean absolutely stuff all when you can’t go to the Nh and come away victorious like the Ab’s just have.
November 29th, 2009 at 8:29 am
@skopskiet: but skoppie , surely your messiah pdv doesnt have anything to do with the boks selections or gameplan…… Lol
You made your bed ..now f..ukknn go and lie in it and shuddup
November 29th, 2009 at 8:41 am
a seriously tired looking performance.
Most of the Bulls and Sharks lot should have been left at home.
You could already see how knackered their performances where back end of the CC.
For the life of me, I have no idea why we are kicking so much. Morne is a running flyhalf. Why pick Olivier and give him the ball once, was it?And then when Pienaar came on, he kicked some more? A very poor game, surprisingly we didn’t lose by more. Plus side of this entire tour is that our front row would apparently seem sorted?
Jeez, just imagine what Spies could have done off the back of that sort of platform.
I believe that to play a multidimensional game, a side has to have confident players with skill. I believe we have that, i just hope that all the running is not being coached out of them, a seemingly repetitive problem in SA.
November 29th, 2009 at 8:42 am
MS is a one dimensional road to nowhere.
Last year I was screaming at these idiots to pick Peter Grant at pivot and play the successful Honiball mode attack game which we should have adopted, but then you need a scrum half like Adams or Pretorius or Vermaak to knuckle in and get fast efficient service to the backs. Fdp one of the slowest useless scrum halves I’ve ever seen getting momentum ball to backs.
But no we reverted to useless Butch James and Fdp rubbish 2007 style rugby and lost the tournament right there. Since then we haven’t progressed whatsoever. In fact we have regressed further back into this dumb doos kicking chasing idiotic nonsense archaic dinosaur rugby that some f.ng genius like Muir or Smit and Matfield think is the strength of Sa dumb f’ak rugby.
We have regressed to the same robotic **** we were playing through 2006 and 07. We saw some glimpses of hope in 2008 with Ellis Park and Twickenham, but this year 2009 we have ditched all our attack mode rugby and adopted this trash Fdp, MS rubbish one dimensional drek we serve up time and time again.
The only time we were looking like we were vaguely heading in the right direction in the last entire reason was first half in first test against Bil’s when Pienaar was getting some activity in the open game and last week against Saracens first half when Adams was nailing those crisp quick passes and Pienaar, Rose, De Jongh were at least hitting the advantage line at some pace, and we scored 3 tries as a result. When Hougaard came on it was back to dom doos rubbish skop en trek kak, and then we lost.
November 29th, 2009 at 8:43 am
@dr dre:
touche!
Unfortunately the Lunatic will change stance to emphasize a point or “win” a debate depending on whom he is blogging with.
oh…and don’t forget the insults that should follow.
November 29th, 2009 at 8:45 am
@Brigadier Van Zyl:
….and then there is always the way that he insults our own players as well.
“primma donna this-useless arse that”
seriously anti-south-african really.
November 29th, 2009 at 8:53 am
Pdv must get shot of Muir and perhaps Gold too.
Next is Smit, the one that Gavin Rich reckons between him and Matfield and Fdp are the player coaches in the side. Drop those useless idiots and start fresh. Between Smit, Matfield and Fdp, senior f.ng palooka twats not one of them realized through how many minutes of one dimension trash that its simply NOT working! God f.k verdompt how thick must you actually be not to realize this rubbish kak kick n chase sh’t don’t f.ng WORK!
November 29th, 2009 at 8:59 am
Brigadier and Dr Dre you bunch of twits got no clue. . Whatsoever. .
You just witnessed your dumb *** delinquent glorified heroe’s look like a bunch of whimpering wet dream zombies.
What you know about anti South African you dumb f’ak delusional day dreamers. You the twats that are anti progress you dumb doos blou eyed delusional prick’s
November 29th, 2009 at 9:02 am
Like Heyneke Meyer is the answer to your dumb *** delusional prayers. You got no clue in hell poor lost idiots.
November 29th, 2009 at 9:07 am
The trouble is that the Kick and Chase did work very well against the AB’s and Wallabies who were slower to ‘come out’ of the ELV’s than the Boks. It was good coaching!
The AB’s and Wallabies tried to play running rugby and were mostly exposed by clinical, if not exciting, Bok tactics that were excellently executed. Unfortunately for the Boks, the NH sides already knew all about that style of play and hence the Boks had a very close win over the Lions and struggled in the AI’s. The AB’s and Wallabies however have spent the Autumn working out how to combat the Bok tactics, and this has set them up nicely for the NH tour just gone.
Big question now is, have they worked out enough to make the Bok’s pay for a one dimensional game plan in 2010. Let’s see!!
November 29th, 2009 at 9:07 am
skop i have no doubt that PDV gonna work on a new model come 2010….the fact that he will be forced to totate in order to rest some ’senior’ players will hopefully lead to the boks unearthing some decent players ….because frankly i just dont see 2011 as a realitic win option for boks unless we embrace some changes….ands perhaps some strategy calls too.
If Rich is correct then maybe some senior players gonna have to learn the hard way that they not boss of the Boks….and i have said it for a while now…if PDV iallows himself to be lead by the nose and gets intimidated by these so called ’seniors’ then he needs to carry the blame.
November 29th, 2009 at 9:08 am
rotate
November 29th, 2009 at 9:11 am
@grant10: No disrespect here guys but the way the Boks have been playing it wouldnt matter where you played Smit. Your whole season(including the winning of the Tri-nations) has been incredibly one dimensional and quite lucky to a degree. The Boks have not been winning well when winning(majority of points off the boot), they have been hard pressed to cross the try line against majority of the teams they have played( and even those they beat) and to lose to France and Ireland in the fashion they did show cases exactly what this article is about- no plan B,no flair and really (from the coaches point) no idea. It wasnt that long ago that PDV was saying the best of the Boks is yet to come, ‘on the verge of greatness’ and ‘we want to show the (rugby) world we can play fast expansive rugby.
I am personally sorry for the Boks, they started to rise from the ashes through ‘07 and take the WC, commanded and maintained their WC mantle throughout ‘08, but this year the slide began even though winning the 3N’s. The signs were there in the manner of the wins against sides who were not 100%– not really ‘putting’ their opponents to the sword so to speak as you would expect from a side that was heralded with their status and ranking. I believe the Irish played them at their own game, hold and kick and in doing so have basically shattered their bubble and I believe will have severely kicked their self confidence and their belief that their coaching team have any idea of what they are really doing. A crying bloody shame for the Boks. They need to piss PDV off out of the picture and get some one that will really empower and liberate the Boks to their full potential.
November 29th, 2009 at 9:13 am
@skopskiet:
Your arguments might have some validity if you could raise them cogently without resorting to inane rambling gutter-speak. But right now you sound like the village idiot espousing conspiracy theories while wearing a tinfoil hat.
Try arguing your point of view without resorting to insults and immature ranting, brother. Sheez.
November 29th, 2009 at 9:19 am
Off the subject — but can you believe this – Mc Caw is IRB player of the year – U-N-B-E-L-I-E-V-A-B-L-E
November 29th, 2009 at 9:19 am
@captain fantail: I agree to an extent. We were damn fortunate against the B Lions if we were honest ….and lets face it the Kiwis and Aussies are in a rebuild phase and we took advantage of it well…..although the cracks were beginning to show . All through the season our scrum was , at best , shaky, at times abysmal.
Scary thing for me is we fixed that area up beautifully with Cj and Bj back in the picture….but our lack of imagination and flair and reliance on the boot has now raised its head.
PDV is, i believe, allowing his natural instinct for a more expansive game to be stymied by a cartel of senior players. I have said it several times….he needs to stamp his authority….and if it means dropping 1 or 2 of the ringleaders he may have to do so.
Cant lead a rugby team by committee….
November 29th, 2009 at 9:22 am
The Boks simply lack variation in their game. Whether it is because of the players or the coaches is unclear. What is clear is that without some major thinking and bold selections and proper consideration of the Smit succession plan along with some clarity about what to do with the front row and how to stop this mindless kicking which is an insult to players like Fourie and Habana as well as the reason for the Bok demise against a rather unimpressive Ireland and forthcoming losses next year, there is trouble ahead. The sad fact is that there does not need to be.
Anyone who watched the ABs dismantle France can see that this year’s 3N was a momentary blip for the ABs who have been evolving and developing their new crop of players who in a few short months have been melded into a potent force, while the Boks have regressed. Shame given the talent available and which was not selected. Maybe the S14 will help these guys stake their claims. Whether this rather unimaginative coaching team will take notice of some of the talent remains to be seen.
November 29th, 2009 at 9:23 am
@skopskiet: Getting a wee bit emotional are we? The Boks won the tri nations and the Lions series this year – who says their tactics don’t work? they lost an end of season, means nothing game (means nothing series) and you guys take it seriously. Get a life! Oh and why not drop strutting BH from the Bulls too, or do you think he’s different because he’s moving to the Cape? He’s only doing it for the money.
OK, bring on the insults!
November 29th, 2009 at 9:23 am
@skopskiet: Hey Keo – how come this drivel doesn’t get moderated while you have no problem removin
November 29th, 2009 at 9:25 am
@skopskiet: @raven: “removin
November 29th, 2009 at 9:25 am
Agree wholeheartedly with Grant above. For years it has been clear that the Boks need to develop a running style. The ELVs forced them to do it. A real pity they were dropped. It allowed the Boks to revert to this lacklustre and ultimately predictable style of 10 man rugby. What a waste of talent.
November 29th, 2009 at 9:27 am
@raven: Hey-What’s happening? I was moderated yesterday and now before I finished my text get’s uploaded?
November 29th, 2009 at 9:32 am
@grant10: 2008, the team played to PDV game plan, look how the Boks did (****)In 2009, the cartel of senior players told him to go stand in the corner out of the way, and they won everything that was important. I don’t swallow the **** about the “manner” in which games have been won, you make your own luck. Fantail’s pulling your tail and you’re falling for it!
November 29th, 2009 at 9:32 am
A succession plan and any form of change management always raises emotions and causes angst and pain….but this is where PDV stands now….truly this is a Rubicon challenge for him.
He needs to clear his head, together with Gold and Muir do a proper think tank and come up with a road map starting in 2010 Super 14….make it clear to the players what he has in mind, be frank and honest, it is only fair that players know where they stand.
Then implement the plan with a degree of flexibility but also not allowing himself to be distracted and / or bulliedby anyone.
The great coaches rely on there gut….and PDV needs to trust his now.
November 29th, 2009 at 9:32 am
not to knock a player who has saved out gat a number of times this year but after watching morne’s uninspired display @ flyhalf, it was quite a contrast watching giteau & carter carve up defences @ will. Playing against a rookie only in his 2nd test morne didn’t even run @ Sexton aka “Sexo” once, not even one darting run with a sidestep or scissor pass or creative backline moves…our five-eigth combo lack creativity, no positional inter-change like barnes/giteau or cooper/giteau…oh well *sigh*
November 29th, 2009 at 9:39 am
If Pdv got the balls for it then he starts calling the shots and ditches this consensus style consultation between his senior palooka’s and the assistant coaches.
What is clear as daylight is that this kick n chase rubbish has been doomed to get found out sooner or later. The senior contingent apparently orchestrated some kind of revolutionary coup last year and started dictating terms about how they wanted to play traditional dumb *** to our strength up in the air rugby.
Now Pdv either stamps some authority and dictates some terms of his own and calls the strategy and game plan or he would have to give over to someone who can.
He made the mistake of giving far too much power and control to some senior ranked individuals in his armory now he has to take it on the chin and pull all that power back and if it means losing some stalwarts in the process who are simply unable to adapt then too bad, move on, there plenty more able and dedicated soldiers in the ranks ready to step up to the task.
November 29th, 2009 at 9:41 am
@Porto: no one pulls my tail boet….believe me i have my own views….point is we need to undergo some changes, definitley in strategy and perhaps even in personnel….we have fallen behind, make no mistake. We can continue to beat our chests and say 3 nil…..or we can try and improve.
The scrums are the 1 highlight of the tour….as it destroyed the tragic myth that at this level you can approach games with a hooker at 3…..
We know our lineouts are normally a strength….i reckon we got to look at our loose forward combos and the backs need to be more dynamic on attack. A great platform from 1 st phase scrum ball was provided yeaterday but not put to good use.MS boot was poor for 2 games and we saw the reults , Ruan came on and kicked as poorly….
November 29th, 2009 at 9:47 am
McCheat was manshamed by Brussouw. Strange choice. Surely should have been FduP or BOD. The last 2 also at least winning trophees of note.
November 29th, 2009 at 9:47 am
when Beast went off and CJ on the scrum was as dominant…..it was when Bj went off that the scrum took a bit of strain….held its own to be fair to Smit but lost its potency!
I have said a bloody 1000 times….if Smit has to be on the field for a full 80 then move him to 1…not to 3….the proof is there for all to see…..BJ destroyed the Irish scrum….what a glorious sight to behold a Bok scrum as dominant as that…..
Any move of PDV to revert Smit back to 3 will destroy any credibility in my eyes and i truly will start to believe the rumours that the team dynamic is being dictated by a select group of Bok senoir players.
November 29th, 2009 at 9:48 am
Bok’s played far better rugby in 2008 than they did in 2009-
Fan tail is correct 2009 we got lucky catching teams on the rebuild and fluking a Bil’s tour with some big place kicks, but as rugby goes we regressed all the way back to dumb f’ak dom doos dinosaur rugby. Going nowhere fast.
Get shot of some overrated players. Smit, Fdp, Steyn maybe Matfield and Burger and start again. Or change the strategy 180 degrees. Can’t do any worse than we just have.
November 29th, 2009 at 9:51 am
@Brigadier Van Zyl: Man … you called it …. hot air and insults.
Cracks me up – The oke is madder than a nest of pit vipers in a roller coaster.
November 29th, 2009 at 9:52 am
Morne Steyn has been kicking away all of the Boks momentum all year … but it has been masked by his succesful drop kicks and great penalty kicks. When that fails do we only see how limited he really is. Div needs to stick to his original plan of Pienaar and stick with him. Bring back Frans as the backup and the monster boot.
If i had to pick a player of the year … wouldn’t be McCaw or Fourie du Preez. The Irish fullback has been outstanding all year. For the Irish and the British & Irish Lions – those awards go to the big names, not the best players.
November 29th, 2009 at 9:54 am
pdv seems to be k@k bang of doing what robbie deans is doing in australia. Where he recognised the “senior player cabal” of waugh, smith, mortlock, giteau and decided to dismantle it & start anew with young leaders like berrick barnes who are more receptive to new ideas. Eddie moans highlighted the probable cause when he suggested that deans is making australia play like a typical new zealand team & is stifling their innate aussie instinct which would explain why some players are not buying into the new way of doing things…
But deans is working from a different platform from pdv and the player power dynamics seem far more complex & entrenched in the springbok camp. Pdv has to bite the bullet and risk the kind of mutiny that deans had to deal with this year if he is to introduce a Plan B!
November 29th, 2009 at 9:58 am
Thats right the smoke screen of M. Steyn place kicking has masked his mediocrity as a fly half. He’s actually useless as a play maker and Fdp hardly much better. Lose them both.
November 29th, 2009 at 9:59 am
@skopskiet: Skopskiet.
If you think that PDV has the capability to “drop the entire team” and “start over” like you mention in a prev post you are seriously, and i mean seriously, more messed up and madder than a Weskoppies cane rat.
Also, who taught you to insult and talk like you do?
What you need to go is go and volunteer at Eskom to solve the power crisis we have here in SA.
Stick a high voltage cable up your arse and harness that turmoil and anger you have milling around inside that little Skoppie head of yours.
Man …. you could solve Earths power needs. Sjoe, you are a special one hey ….
November 29th, 2009 at 10:01 am
Pdv gotta shake those viper’s from out their nests and call the shots. If Smit Matfield Fdp etc don’t like it too bad ta ta. Time to dictate terms and strategy and stop pandering to a bunch of overrated prima donna’s the entire overrated bunch of them.
November 29th, 2009 at 10:05 am
@kevin w: i totaly agree ,if ruan pienaar plays flyhalf in the super 14(unlikely seeing as they’ve got el mago) then pdv calls back fransie steyn then we;d have a proper backline woth kirchner or morne at the back
ruan and frans showed what they’re capale of playing as a 10 12 combination in the super 14 .and seeing as frans is already playing 12 for racing metro it should be a no brainer really
backline for 2010 whilst resting a few senior players for 2011
FDP /kockott/vermaak
ruan pienaar/ the pearl
habana
frans steyn/meisikind/JDV
jaque fourie/adi
jpp/mapoe
kirchner/joe pietersen/morne
the ruan frans fourie combo could be pretty devasting if allowed to run and with habana and jpp finaly getting some ball we could finally see some tries
November 29th, 2009 at 10:06 am
ruk that bunch of overrated prima donna senior contingent reg thats whats required here, the entire bunch of them. Starting with captain Smit. Start again fix this shambles from the roots up. Drop Smit and Matfield must not get captain because then it goes from bad to worse. Drop the vanguard big bok breker’s and start again from the bottom you got less than two years to ruk it reg its not impossible.
November 29th, 2009 at 10:07 am
Line outs have been horrible in spite of Matfield and Bekker….this tour should have been an oportunity to breed 1 or 2 more secound row. Why taking Hargræves ?? we need secound rowers in the Brad Thorn mould as well…..
November 29th, 2009 at 10:08 am
53. Quite right. PDV would have to risk a mutiny. However the impatience of the SA Rugby public would probably not tolerate a few losses – as Australia has had this year – to allow the system to change to reap the benefits later. One factor is that the Aussies are more patient and realize this. The other is that Deans had already proved himself at the Crusaders so that presumably what he said was taken seriously because of this. In SA as soon as the team lost a few games, the public would be baying for change. They would rather ignore the fact that the wins were tenuous and papered over the problems that were evident to all. The 3N wins were not all convincing and neither were the BIL wins. Similarly when SA had the run of 17 consecutive wins – the writing was on the wall even before the last game at Twickenham where the Boks who had been very average – although successful- were finally exposed by a tenacious England team. A bit like this years autumn tour.
Perhaps SA need a coach like John Mitchell to ring the changes. However who can imagine anyone having the humility to acknowledge that SA might actually learn a lot from having an outsider come in and make the long-overdue necessary changes. SA have a history of faffing around with creative backline players – viz; Brent Russell. And we may yet see this with mismanagement of talents like Joe Petersen. Frustrating. And you don’t have to be a rugby expert to see it. Just watch a game where the Boks do nothing but kick the ball away.
November 29th, 2009 at 10:10 am
Reality is this:
1. Boks did BIL in game 1, were lucky to sneak game 2 underdeservedy after the whistle and after that who cares about game 3.
2. ABs started the season without Carter, McCaw (IRB Man of the year yes really get over it) and 5-7 other first liners. Played badly against France first up but got them in the 2nd. Beat Aus in Auck then travelled to Bloem to play a rested Bok then Durban one week later again without Carter etc (but had McCaw by then) and lost deservedly.
3. Bok had Aus at altitude after ABs and got them, got them agin in Perth which is like a home game, lost in Brissy and then put in their best performance of the year in Hamilton which still needed 3 60m penalties.
4. Won 3N deservedly but then went away to NH where dirt trackers proved there is little depth in SA rugby by losing not one but two games. Poor, tired seniors lost to France and Ireland, lost no. 1 ranking and ended the year with most recognising what I have said all year – that this team is peaking right now with Bakies, as brilliant as he is filthy, and Victor, John etc in their 30s and not likely to be 2011 forces.
All in all a great year till after Hamilton now undone by the reality of the rugby cycle.
Congrats on the achievements of 2009 but please don’t argue about the end of year rankings lest any credibility remaining disappears.
November 29th, 2009 at 10:13 am
Brad Thorn 34 years old, 195 cm and 114 kgs is worth Bekker and Matfield together from yesterday´s game….
Bekker and Matfield are useless if they don´t dominate line outs….why we didn´t take Van Zyl who play like Thorn ??
November 29th, 2009 at 10:17 am
the AB’s were fantastic last night, Carter is miles ahead as the best fly half – even the Ozzies were much better, with Giteau leading – both good performances proved the value of a flyhalf who can do more than jut kick – we have a great backline, we need to use it more
November 29th, 2009 at 10:19 am
I have to agree with Kevin W and Mbaxman… with Ruan, Frans/JdV, Jaque, JP and Habana we can play running rugby, with quick ball from scrums and rucks.
We had good ball from scrums yesterday but Morne and Fourie kicked for territory whole game.
November 29th, 2009 at 10:21 am
The way I see it, it’s simple: More proactive, less reactive. That’s it, simple change in mindset. It might prove too much for PdV but ja…
November 29th, 2009 at 10:22 am
Bekker and Matfield have been very poor yesterday….maybe we should displace Juan Smith secound row…
November 29th, 2009 at 10:24 am
Man, what a dissapointing game. This article has summed it up nicely. The Boks very simply were caught off guard [Yeah the World Champions] in France and Ireland. I dont pretent to have the answers but will put across what I think our problem is. Firstly as mentioned, we didnt have a plan B yesterday. Some people say we were fatigued. John Smit rubbished this as you dont miss opportunities and kicks at goals if you are fatigued. If we are fatigued, why did the AB’s thunped the same French team that convincenly beat us ? Lets face it, we have some good established players in our team, but shouldnt we have been grooming other guys slowly but surely to take over. Lets face it Victor and Bakkies, Jaque and Jean, Fourie, Habana etc are brilliant, but they arent going to be around forever. We need to [or should have been already] grooming players to take over from these guys.
All I can say is man I was so looking forward to yesterdays game, and really thought we had an excellent run on 15 and bench to convincenly beat the French, but was [And am] bitterly dissapointed.
November 29th, 2009 at 10:25 am
@skopskiet:
Could you be any more ridiculous? The Springboks dominated the tri-nations this year.
There is no such thing as “getting lucky” to win five games out of six against the 2nd and 3rd (at the time) rated teams in the world. And what does it mean to “fluke” the British and Irish Lions tour?
Yeah, we had a bad end of year tour, but the point is to NOT panic when things go badly. There needs to be an objective evaluation of this tour, not a mass culling of the current team.
November 29th, 2009 at 10:33 am
@grant10: hi grant…dude you have made this point a countless number of times and hopefully you’ve been vindicated but please tell me how did we use the advantage of front foot ball that we suddenly found ourselves to have? Did our backline run in moves like a team working from a great platform, i don’t think so…the all blacks in contrast displayed backline skills & creativity that the bok backline can’t even dream of.
and grant please answer this for me again, as you say in the first 50 minutes when BJ was there and our scrums were “the greatest you’ve ever seen” how come we ended the first half with only plus/minus 35% possession? How did our great scrum help us in that department? Scrums are important but they are not be-all & end-all of a rugby game if that was the case you’d only need to show up with 8 men on the field and you’d win matches!
November 29th, 2009 at 10:34 am
There is nothing wrong with our halfbacks. Its the gameplan. We don’t have any alternative to kick and chase. The gameplan is the coach’s department.
I don’t advocate removing PdV. He must be given the chance to take the Boks to the world cup. But he had better start earning his money soon. The current Boks have less dimensions to them than the 2007 variety. That is a step backwards.
Woodward and White both risked poor results and unpopularity to build a RWC team. PDV, if he has a strategy, had better start putting it into practice.
At the moment all we seem to have is diminishing returns from our old gameplan. No gameplan lasts forever in rugby. Someone will always find a counter to a successful strategy.
Those who always claimed the senior players were running the show when we won and those who credited the coach seem to have changed sides this tour.
Whatever the true position it is very hard to see any sense of direction being exhibited by those responsible. Over to you PdV. The buck stops with you.
November 29th, 2009 at 10:38 am
brokenhats read 61 Qrest above. That about sums up the reality of the situation. Also Kevin w is quite correct they should never have dropped Pienaar even if he wasn’t getting the long range penalties over should have persisted with his running game and not shot his confidence to ribbons now they have to build it all up again.
Some go forward in the back line is in dire need and Fdp and M. Steyn simply can’t provide it.
For 2010 I try S. Pretorius and Pienaar at half back with De Jongh into mid field and Mapoe out at wing. Viljoen to full back cos F. Steyn not available.
S. Pretorius
Pienaar
Habana
De Jongh
Fourie
Mapoe
Viljoen
Start kicking some running *** again. Drop the one dimensional prima donna individualists from this team.
November 29th, 2009 at 10:42 am
I share your sentiments, Craig. Disappointing, disappointing, disappointing. With the territory and possession we had, to lose like that and take the options we did was thoroughly deflating.
November 29th, 2009 at 10:49 am
And while I’m having my end of year rant I’d just like to thank the Boks for the **** kicking game they forced the world to endure this year, to the point where many rugby supporters began to wonder whether the game had disintegrated to rabble.
Fear not, friends, for last night proved that if teams want to come out with a positive attitude it’s still the game played in heaven.
Next year referees are going to enforce the offside rule much more strictly – if a team wants to kick incessantly then EVERY player in front of the kick will be forced top retreat whilst offside. So if you’re in front of the the flyhalf when he kicks, or halfback when the ridiculous box kick goes up, or fullback when he returns a kick, then start running back to your own goaline untill onside – that’s the rules.
This year the Boks were nothing but kicking, and it was pathetic.
November 29th, 2009 at 10:51 am
@skopskiet: you are the worst kind of a psringbok supporter. those prima donnas aka morne fdp won us the tri nations , lions and super 14 try and remember that for a second.
thers nothing wrong with fdp ,he’s just following the gameplan,he shown he can run the ball when he needs to . our problme lies with morne steyn once his kicks dont land.then he’s out of ideas
November 29th, 2009 at 10:51 am
The all blacks showed how to smash NH sides yesterday, just run the ball at them, they are too slow to keep up with that sort of game. SA played into their hands by kicking all the time.
November 29th, 2009 at 10:56 am
Can any of you knowledgeable bloggers help me understand why we got pumped by France and Ireland and some hick rugby clubs, seeing as how we got most of the Best in the World, namely:
Best Captain in the Whole World: John Smit
Best Hooker in the Whole World: Bissie dP
Best Lineout Lock in the Whole World: Victor M
Best “Enforcer” Lock in the Whole World: Bakkies B
Best Headless-Chicken Flank in the Whole World: Schalk
Best Scrumhalf in the Whole World: Fourie dP
Best Centre in the Whole World: Mossie Fourie
Best Crash-Ball Centre in the Whole World: Wynand Olivier
Best Wing in the Whole World: Bryan Habana
Best Energy-Efficient Wing in the World (does nothing) JPP
Best Physicality in the Whole World (I read it on the Internet so it must be true)
Best Rugby Gene Pool in the Whole World (I read this also)
Best Coach in the World (I made this up)
So why did we lose four out of five games?
If you say the players are tired because they didn’t get their mug of hot milk and a good night’s sleep – then don’t apply for a job at my company becasue I don’t hire apologists and losers who make excuses and settle for second best. I can take a loss, but at least go down fighting!
I watched the Boks then the Wallabies then the All Blacks yesterday.
The wallas and AB’s were streets ahead of us – no, make that continents ahead of us – in all aspects of play. Especially ball in hand attacking play.
Are there really people out there who believe that the Boks looked dull, slow and emasculated because they played a few more games during the year than the wallas and AB’s?
November 29th, 2009 at 11:02 am
Just seen the result now, must say I’m extremely DISAPPOINTED.
I grew up in an era when the Boks wouldn’t have broken into a sweat in despatching the French or Irish home or away. Now we are on a record number of losses to the Irish and French away from home, can’t help thinking the recent Boks have let their great records tumble when a team like NZ continues to trounce NH opposition home and away. Now we have to live with windgat Irish players saying the Boks are overrated (maybe they are, but should they be?), the Lions should have won, blah blah blah.
What a bunch of plonkers the Boks are, to have such an outstanding year, only to take so much away from it right at the end. Pathetic, really.
November 29th, 2009 at 11:07 am
@skopskiet: @grant10:
You guys need three coaches- a Frenchie for passion,a Kiwi for gameplan and a SA for toughness…f’n unbeatable ;_D …and some hot chicks for the massage tables!!
November 29th, 2009 at 11:08 am
Skopdrol.
Please list your Rugby achievements on Keo for the world to see???
You`ve got so much to say.
So when did you represent your country on the world stage and how successful were you?
November 29th, 2009 at 11:09 am
I don’t take to windgat prima donna’s Mbaxis no matter which country they play for. Never have n never will. Rugby is a team sport and if overrated one dimensional individualists can’t do the simple thing like getting their back line moving then I don’t care who thinks the sun shines out their ****’s they just a bunch palooka’s far as I can see. And Fdp and M.steyn fit that bill. The both of them largely instrumental in losing both against Ireland and France. Overrated isn’t even the word. Hopeless more like it. Don’t for a minute detract from my patriotism but it might just detract from yours.
November 29th, 2009 at 11:15 am
Saffas, let not your hearts be troubled.
Any team, that has Victor, Bakkies, Bismark, Brussoux (spelling), Brian Habanna, JP Pieterson, and Morne in it, will soon rise up.
Next year is exactly that. Next year……….no worries.
November 29th, 2009 at 11:15 am
@TD: It`s easy old chap.
Our HEAD coach is like Ray Charles in the Louvre, doesn`t have a f@#king clue!
Lucky packet coach who fell with his quota *** in the butter.
Some on here, notably Skopdrol, will crucify Jake White for us losing a few games, although he won us a RWC, but not a word on their token black coach.
Go figure.
November 29th, 2009 at 11:17 am
@Transformation: Transie….would you rather have a dominant scrum or a retreating scrum?
Imagine we were on the back foot yesterday…like against Italy….we would have been done by 20!
I have never said a scrum wins you matches….what it does is allows toy to be competetive and play off the front foot….the scrum was amazing yesterday…are you denying that?
And the\fact that we were beaten maybe linked to the fact that last 30min we lost our scrum dominance…in such a close game a crucial management error!
Are you advocating a Smit return at 3?
I say the scrum is fixed now….may the good angels never allow boks to revert back to the dark ages of a back pedalling scrum ever again!
This issue is a no brainer…it wont by itself win you games…..but good heavens it is preferable to being humiliated.
The loose forward combo and lack of flair did us yesterday….the scrum at least kept us in the game…the only highlight was the scrum!!
Do you dispute this?
November 29th, 2009 at 11:18 am
When last did we win in France?
When last did we win in Ireland?
When last did NZ lose in France (other than in a RWC…)?
When last did NZ lose in Ireland?
To me, the disappointment of losing to these 2 NH teams is greater than the joy of winning the 3N’s this year. Pity it had to end on such a sour note.
November 29th, 2009 at 11:21 am
@aliboy:
The kick and chase is not exciting rugby!! it was effective against two teams building and that is why the boks won the trinations this year.
It is unusual to have aus and NZ building at the same time but they are.
NZ have it right this time round leading into the next RWC. RSA are looking in trouble for 2010 nevermind 2011.
Matfield is only good for lineouts and even now he is struggling for breath just to get to them. smit, bakkies are gone.
November 29th, 2009 at 11:21 am
@cane: The day a Springbok fan is not troubled by losing to the relative lightweight NH teams is a sad day for South African rugby. This recent trend of losses in the NH to Ire and Fra is very alarming, and disappointing, and must not be accepted!
November 29th, 2009 at 11:23 am
@wallabie.:
Good win by Dingo’s Boys Mr Walla.
Nice way to finish the year.
November 29th, 2009 at 11:28 am
@wooden spoon:
Very True Spooner.
But I for one …..think SA will be as tough in the 3N next year, as they were this year.
November 29th, 2009 at 11:29 am
@wooden spoon:
Hi WS, long time no see.
Our performance was bad, we had nothing more to offer than to kick, chase and defend the whole day.
We also have to give the Irish credit though – they played very well and also have some outstanding players.
Players such as Kearny, Bowe, O’Driscoll, Flannery and Heaslip would walk into the Springbok team.
November 29th, 2009 at 11:30 am
i do hope some ’senior’ boks do some serious introspection as well….if they dont 100% believe that jhave another 2 years left in the tank best they do the honarable thing and spare PDV the kak job of doing it for them.
Some look out on there feet….these 2 losses have taken the gloss off the season for me…amnd left me with doubts for 2010 and 2011….big doubts!
And if Smit reverts to 3 i will have a heart attack!!
November 29th, 2009 at 11:30 am
and you Makwawanajan how many times you represent your country?
Don’t preclude me from seeing what is palpably obvious to the naked eye that Fdp and M. Steyn is an exercise in futility. From one poor performance to the next. Week after week showing they got sweet bug all clue when it comes to getting any kind of momentum through the backline. Yeah I could probably fix this shambles of a bokkie boy non existant game plan and strategy if it were left to me but they probably wouldn’t like it much. Non of the high profile untouchables would have too many ardent laurels to rest their overrated heads on.
November 29th, 2009 at 11:32 am
@Robzim: Hi Rob…what did you think of the boks improved scrumming effort?
November 29th, 2009 at 11:33 am
We need a backline coach that can teach our players to break the line and put teammates in space.
Our running in open play suck balls.
November 29th, 2009 at 11:36 am
@cane: The Boks don’t seem to be able to sustain success as well as the AB’s do.
Maybe it goes to their heads.
Earlier this year there was talk of a ‘golden era’ for the Boks. How premature that talk was… If it was indeed the case the Boks would have trounced the French just like the AB’s did.
When last did the Boks truly dominate world rugby for a sustained period? We might fluke a 3N every 6 or 7 years but we still lose to Wales, Ireland, England and France consistently enough when NZder’s would never dream of it.
Is it a fragile, dumb, mommy’s boy, verkrampte SA rugby mentality or what that allows you to win the 3N convincingly against the world’s best but then be humbled in the NH?
November 29th, 2009 at 11:37 am
@The_Green_Machine_is_a_Mean_Machine:
well said, there’s talent there to be harnessed.
I’m free at the moment and I’ll need to be base in Stellenbosch, near Kanonkop (The hills are good for training!)
November 29th, 2009 at 11:37 am
@grant10:
Morning,
Well, it was there for all to see – quite impressive until they made the changes.
Unfortunately it did not help us on the scoreboard.
For me the two losses also took the gloss off the season.
8/12 for the so called ” best springbok team of all time” does not sound so good?
November 29th, 2009 at 11:40 am
@cane: exactly!it looks like some bloggers are losing their heads here this morning.
November 29th, 2009 at 11:43 am
@Robzim: Hey Rob, yeah it’s been a while, I’ve been too busy snorkelling and kayaking in SE Asia
You’re right about the quality of the Irish players of course, but you know what gets me? These players (and the French) play out of their skins against SA because they know they have a more than good chance of winning, yet show hardly any resistance against NZ. This attitude is shameful to the once proud record of the Boks.
Oh well, the world keeps turning… Bring on the S14!
November 29th, 2009 at 11:44 am
@Robzim: Ja…a pity the backs looked so sterile….WO with a big 3 to 2 overlap on the outside had me pulling my hair out….and MS seems to suffer with the confidence if his boot takes a turn for the worse.
Big difference when kicking at sea level in the cold than at Loftus….
Anyway….2010 will be an exciting challenge….just hope we all got seat belts….the ride gonna be a bumpy one.
November 29th, 2009 at 11:45 am
@The_Green_Machine_is_a_Mean_Machine: #93
Apparently running rugby don’t win test matches, according to some well informed rugby experts on this site. It also is not the SA way. We play a forward dominant game. Just a pity we could not dominate the Irish “lightweight forwards” yesterday.
Proteas 78/5. Jimmy Anderson on fire.
November 29th, 2009 at 11:47 am
@Flametop:
I have to be honest though, our players cannot seem to think quickly on their feet.
I suppose they are all used to run over their opponents in junior rugby where there are a lot of mismatches size-wise
November 29th, 2009 at 11:48 am
@wooden spoon:
Enjoy.
Snorkeling and kayaking are anyway much more enjoyable than watching aerial ping pong as demonstrated by FdP and Morne Steyn
November 29th, 2009 at 11:48 am
Make that 78/6. Anderson 4 for18 from 8 overs.
November 29th, 2009 at 11:49 am
@grant10:
I was at the match yesterday.
With the fog and the cold you would have been lucky to hit the toilet after a few beers.
The ball did not want to travel
November 29th, 2009 at 11:49 am
Oh boy, all the ego’s come out to play. skops; wait by the ‘phone bru- Oregan could call at any moment. Skoppie dead against all the Bulls but squeals for Adams wtf. Gwant10; a question. Would rather have a dominant scrum or lineout?
Me, I’ll take lineout. Did you see the boks pushing the Oirish backwards, there No. 8 gets a poor ball and makes about 20m because the Boks are still pushing. Now that is piss poor coaching. I reckon they spent the week on the scrum and pretty much ignore the lineout.
Sorry muppets – snotskiet in particular. IT IS NOT THE PLaYERS WHO SHOULD TAKE ALL THE BLAME. In football who gets fired when a team does poorly? The players play to a game plan. Sure, they may have some say in the game plan but ultimately it is the coach’s decision and he must detail it, coach it and sell it to the players. The game plan should be continuously analysed and evolved. New game plans must be thought up or old ones re-introduced.
I am not saying PdV should be fired. But he needs way better support in coaching, analysis and admin. SA has the players. Muppets who want to discard at will are being childish. Way more important to develop new players, identify weaknesses, motivate the exisitng ones and ensure a seamless transition. This is hardly happening
November 29th, 2009 at 11:51 am
@The_Green_Machine_is_a_Mean_Machine:
Tip/touch rugby is key at a young age.
It teaches to look for space rather than contact.
I mean I’d play touch against Nonu knowing he can only “tag”
(contact may hurt a retiring body)
It teaches youngsters that it hurts less for the oppo not to lay a hand on you
November 29th, 2009 at 11:52 am
screw the IRb i’m starting my own awards
KEO player of the year -fourie Du preez
Keo Team Of the Year-Springboks
Keo Coach of the year – Peter Helium Snor PDv theDiv DE Villiers
Keo try of the year – Conrad “snake” smith vs Boks
Keo Personality of the year–PDV
Keo Moustache of the year – PDV
Keo outstanding leader /player -richie mccaw
Keo Statement of the year – PDV “Rugby is a contact sport and so is dancing ”
Keo Find of 2009- the breakdown brugal Heinrich Brussow
November 29th, 2009 at 11:53 am
@Flametop: yeah….tough conditions to line them up from halfway, pity F Steyn was playing over the hill somewhere.
November 29th, 2009 at 11:54 am
I’ve said my peice. Adios all.
I just hope the Oirish and Frogs are brave enough to send their full strength teams to our shores itinerary permitting. Can’t stand it when the NH teams send their second string sides in June…
November 29th, 2009 at 11:55 am
@husky: Husky….both thanks?
Silly question….why would BJ Botha screw up the lineout???
November 29th, 2009 at 11:56 am
@nama1:
At least the crowd is having a great time, singing and dancing as if there is no tomorrow.
November 29th, 2009 at 11:58 am
We have the players to run the ball and score tries but what do you expect to happen if you kick all your possession straight back to the opposition.
We only had 30% possession in the game! We were forced to make tons of tackles the whole game which is more tiring than attacking etc. etc. BH, JPP and JF are just living off scraps when we play the full 80 min like that. Its the one dimensional game plan that’s the problem.
So who is responsible for this game plan and the inability to change it as the game progresses? players? coaches? or both?
November 29th, 2009 at 11:59 am
Test
November 29th, 2009 at 12:00 pm
Afternoon all.
November 29th, 2009 at 12:01 pm
We put out a good team yesterday who are capable of playing any type of game so we can’t blame selection on this one.
Subbing BJ was a mistake. Coach should have just told MS and FD to keep the ball in hand.
November 29th, 2009 at 12:04 pm
@Osama – bin OCO: As in Test match, test yourself against the opposition etc.
Was devoid of ideas at the time…
November 29th, 2009 at 12:11 pm
@Test:
I posted a long ‘analysis’ this morning – didn’t appear. Sorry not a comment directed at you.
Old hand here, guess you’re new. Didn’t expect a blogger called test. Just shows, we live in an age here one can’t anything for granted.
November 29th, 2009 at 12:12 pm
@Test:
Think they both had their hands in their pockets as it was
Only had feet on this tour.
November 29th, 2009 at 12:19 pm
@Osama – bin OCO: But why? We know they have more to their games than that. I cant understand why they didnt change things?#%! especially as Morne left his kicking boots at the Hotel…
November 29th, 2009 at 12:20 pm
Boks plan B should be simple… Get rid of dead wood. WO, JF, FDP,Steyns (Both), Rossouw, Matfield, Smit, Bakkies… Time to go… Earl Rose, Luke Watson, JUan De Jongh,Ashley Johnson, Heini Adams.. Your Time has come!!!
November 29th, 2009 at 12:21 pm
@Robzim:
Yeah. The PE crowd always enjoy themselves. Always a goo vibe out there.
92/8 now. What the hell is going on?
First the Boks last night, now the Proteas.
November 29th, 2009 at 12:24 pm
@Osama – bin OCO: Actually been registered for years but havent really posted since 2007 WC. Usually just read comments.
November 29th, 2009 at 12:27 pm
The failed experiment of playing WO and JF has now been totally exposed… Let the Reign of Adi and Juan start immediately… Aplon also need to be brought in as Utility back.. he can play 10-15
November 29th, 2009 at 12:27 pm
@nama1: Its the South African sportsman’s psyche… consistency is not one of our strong points.
November 29th, 2009 at 12:30 pm
@Test:
Boks went with a ‘hard ground’ SH team to compete in the NH. Was never going to cut it. Big heavy players on soft sodden grounds means big tired legs.
We needed mobility and we didn’t have it (thank heaven we didn’t have Spies – can’t catch the ball in the dry and would have ‘died’ within 30 minutes if he had to run (or had an appoplexy))
It was obvious that we didn’t have any back-up to Habs and JPP when chasing. Gave the Oirish time to run at us and gain meters.
Wrong team, wrong game plan. When will the Bok management learn?
We anhilated the NH teams when we had mobile players and held our own in the forwards (held, not dominated).
November 29th, 2009 at 12:32 pm
Ashley Johnson is SA’s first utility foward.. This dude can play at 1,2,3,6,7,8… How dare we ignore him… A prodigious talent.. SChalk Burger is a mouse compared to this tiger
November 29th, 2009 at 12:35 pm
@Langenhoven: a Bit thick are you?
Listen good, ADI JACOBS is injured ffs!
He struggled the whole year with that shoulder injury.
You stupid racist C@#t
November 29th, 2009 at 12:41 pm
127. Namakwalanner…. Adi injured does not detract from the fact that WO is useless.. and that JF is all Hype like Frans Steyn… What about FDP’s hand injury and Schalk Burger brain tumour that keeps him in kak at the breakdown..
And calling me a racist cnt is very rich of you… Did you forget how you were brought up and who you and your parents voted for?? Twat
November 29th, 2009 at 12:41 pm
So with any business, where does the buck stop?
I would guess with the nek-van-die-plek????
That would be Piet Snor right? He is ultimately responsible or not? No wait, this is South AFRICA after all. NEVER the token black in charge.
NEVER his responsibilty. Hell, give the chop a pay rise. And when he F@#k the whole business, a GOLDEN handshake.
These guys surely know how to be successful.
Damn those crazy whiteys hey?
November 29th, 2009 at 12:43 pm
@Langenhoven: Hahaha.
How do you know how i was brought up??
I think you would be very surprised when learning the truth.
November 29th, 2009 at 12:43 pm
127. Namakwalanner… use another nic twat… you are trying to confuse yourself with somebody else
November 29th, 2009 at 12:46 pm
127. Namakwalanner… simple mate.. tell us how you were brought up and what your real name is.. Tell me about the school you went to… Prove me wrong… I challenge you
November 29th, 2009 at 12:46 pm
@Langenhoven: Why? Is this nic taken?
What about Frikkie then? You know the ad?
November 29th, 2009 at 12:51 pm
133. Namakwalanner….How long have you been blogging here…Namakwaland was a very sensible blogger.. You are certainly not him… You are am imposter mate
November 29th, 2009 at 12:51 pm
@grant10: grant please don’t put words in my mouth, i’m not disputing anything. The scrum was obviously sorted, everyone witnessed it, nobody is saying smit must go back to 3.
What i asked you is what did our team achieve from the dominant front foot ball that our scrum provided? Did you see our scrum half clearing quicker, did our centres get good ball to punch holes through the rookie flyhalf’s defence? Did you see any creativity that allowed our wings to join the line @ pace and utilise the abundant first phase ball (like we did in the 2nd test against the b&i lions) our dominant scrum provided?
How many scrums were contested after BJ was subbed for you to even suggest that his removal might’ve influenced the outcome of the game? And out of those how mant did we lose?
November 29th, 2009 at 12:52 pm
@Langenhoven: I won`t divulge my real name on this blog. Kinda defeats the purpose.
I will tell you however how i was brought up.
Protestant Church. Not that i am a believer. Some might call me an atheist. I however detest labels and see myself more of a Humanist. Realist would be more fitting.
When PW Botha appeared on national tv, my father immediately switched it off. Cursing would then ensue.
You might mistakenly think that i was brought up a racist, because i am white. No Sir.
November 29th, 2009 at 12:55 pm
@Langenhoven: I have been reading for about 6 months on this blog. Just too lazy to blog regularly.
However i do know most characters on this blog.
November 29th, 2009 at 12:56 pm
Namakwakaka boom prick you the twit twat doos racist around here or can’t you fathom your *** from your snot filled nose. Calling Pdv a Ray Charles Who or What?
These big breek Gavin Rich player coaches John Smit Victor Matfield and Fourie Du Preez should be the ones drawn and quartered if they are indeed the twats calling the shots on or off the field. What happened to this open secret that these idiots pulled a palace revolt and abandoned our running game for this kick and chase ‘Springbok strength’ trash that they learned under idiot twat fool Jake White.
Fdp, Matfield, Smit, M. Steyn don’t have half a f.ng clue wtf actually to do when it comes down to adapting on the field of play. They so dumb inefficient one dimensional idiotic they should simply get booted right out the overrated doos door.
I been calling it long enough to get fresh blood in well if they don’t do it right now then kiss any idea of any success through 2010 and 2011. The biggest mistake this coach made was tying his entire f.ng ossewa wagon to J. Smits and V. Matfield’s apron strings.
November 29th, 2009 at 12:57 pm
136. Namakwalanner… So your father had a problem with PW… Did he have a problem with the rest of the national party too… You have a problem because PDV lost two games.. Did you have the same problem when he won the 3N’s and the LIons… I have a problem with PDV because he succumbs to **** like you…
November 29th, 2009 at 12:57 pm
@Namakwalanner:
As a BB supporter, give me an honest opinion of WO’s performance yesterday.
November 29th, 2009 at 12:59 pm
137. Namakwalanner… so you finally found the nerve to expose yourself… twat
November 29th, 2009 at 1:02 pm
I swear Morne has been taking kicking lesson from Ruan… or Monty doesn’t like sharing the lime light
November 29th, 2009 at 1:04 pm
@skopskiet: I ask again, WHO is ultimately in charge?
If the so called senior players are running the show and doesn`t give Piet the time of day, then surely he is a bad manager who cannot control his charges???
I do not believe that. He is calling the shots so the buck stop there. If the players are really calling the shots, then Piet should grow a pair and do his job. the one he gets paid handsomely for.
History always remember the Baas. Think WW2 and you think of Hitler and that English Bullfrog.
Think America and the invasion and you think Bush.
November 29th, 2009 at 1:05 pm
@nama1: Good solid performance.
November 29th, 2009 at 1:05 pm
142. SpringbokSarah… Monty’s got woman problems… just like Tiger woods… I see Tiger’s wife moered him witha golf stick
November 29th, 2009 at 1:07 pm
Morne is a one track pony like most BB overrated idiot players are who’s only pony went n bolted out the door . They got sh’t for brains when it comes time to think on the feet or out the box they start howling like prima donna cry baby’s and freeze up solid crying out ‘where’s papa Heyneke to show me the way outa here’?
November 29th, 2009 at 1:08 pm
Anyway, i am off to lunch.
November 29th, 2009 at 1:08 pm
@husky: Husky….your question of whether a dominant scrum or a dominant lineout is better refers…..This sort of question is why the Boks dont dominate…..have you any idea what a loser mentality asks that sort of question??
Why should the Boks only be able to have either? Surely a great pack of forwards has to be able to do these 2 basic facets of rugby very well…..?
You make the scrums and lineouts sound like a mutually exclusive facet of the game?
I just dont understand the question? Are you saying that because we dominated the scrums yesterday as we did for 50 munutes [ without Bakkies by the way ] that it stood to reason that we had to do bad in lineouts?
Or are you saying that Smit cant throw in the lineouts?
Or that Matfield, Rossouw and Bekker are kak lineout jumpers?
This is a mystery to me…..why cant we excel at both lineouts and Scrums? I am truly perplexed by your question?
BJ can be used as an attacking force….he adds value…what PDV should have done is leave Smit at 2…..and if BJ had to be replaced bring on CJ at 3….Bissy should have been replaced by smit if that replacement was neccessary……and Bissy to 2…..
This either strong scrum or lineout question really confuses me?
Believe me the Kiwis with Hayman, A Williams and Chris Kack will cover all the basics and leave nothing to chance….so should we.
November 29th, 2009 at 1:09 pm
@skopskiet: Idiots who kicked WP *** for the last decade.
Suck on that.
November 29th, 2009 at 1:09 pm
Lets get some Protocol sorted out here in the absence of sense from the site administrators…
COPY and PASTE your referral…..
and address me as sir
November 29th, 2009 at 1:11 pm
meant smit should have moved into beasts position if it was really neccessary to substitute Beast
November 29th, 2009 at 1:15 pm
151. grant10… How you broer… how big a difference is there in the skill set between LH and TH.. no trick question
November 29th, 2009 at 1:15 pm
I think everyone should just settle down a bit and think to themselves ” Would Frans Steyn has bagged those two long range shots just before half time or not ?” If so why worry, ultimately ???? We are better than the result showed today and that will be evident next year. It’s just the end of a reeeeaaalllyyy long year !!! PdV should have played kids and blooded them to test rugby – for the same EOYT results.
November 29th, 2009 at 1:16 pm
@Transformation: go check ruans kick that was charge downed and lead to 3 points against boks….check that scrum Transie….
I am not blaming smit….i am saying that had bj stayed on we may have had the opportunity to force a penalty as every Irish put in at scrums was a lottery, like our scrums were against Italy…
I agree that the backline was sterile and devoid of any punch….no doubt about that…..
I am simply stating that it was a shocker not to maintain dominance on the 1 aspect of the game that we had real control.
I also question the loosies combo….but thats a later chat.
November 29th, 2009 at 1:16 pm
@Langenhoven: huh? whatever what they do away from the field is none of my business
November 29th, 2009 at 1:18 pm
Bath got smashed by the way…
November 29th, 2009 at 1:18 pm
people from the dark side always says that..’been reading the blog for a few months without posting’.that’s normally the giveaway pietman.
November 29th, 2009 at 1:19 pm
155. SpringbokSarah… you don’t read tabloids???? Rugby magazine only…lol
November 29th, 2009 at 1:19 pm
All Blacks vs Ireland on 12 June
SA have the crappy tri-nations draw next year too
November 29th, 2009 at 1:20 pm
“they didn’t look they had a plan A, let me tell you”- Naas Botha
November 29th, 2009 at 1:21 pm
@Langenhoven: hi boet….massive…the TH is by far the more tougher role…ask Os…even he refused to play at 3….answered the request….’ is jy mal ‘…
November 29th, 2009 at 1:22 pm
@Langenhoven: please! I got over the whole celeb personal life when I was in grade 4… it’s none of my business…
remember you’re not dealing with your standard 16 year old girl
November 29th, 2009 at 1:23 pm
156. SpringbokSarah… I only watched the game to because the King was playing… I am not a Bath supporter.. Probably more partial to London Irish.. but its political as always
November 29th, 2009 at 1:23 pm
@Valkyrie: don’t read most of the comments
November 29th, 2009 at 1:26 pm
@Langenhoven: you boys can do my team a favour today….you going boet??
November 29th, 2009 at 1:26 pm
first Makwa jammer and now Karoo karma kannieklanie who the hell is who in this zoo?
Buck stops with Pdv no question about it. He must boot Muir straight out the picture and Gary Glitterati too. Next Smit must get off cloud 9 or else sit on his sofa at home and read his million dollar memoirs to himself. Matfield I would almost say can start writing his episodes of self glorified memorabilia too. Times up for these prima donna breker’s. All of them.
Fdp is no world class anything just a skopski overrated very slow distributing fool who stand around at base of scrum crying to the ref about the oppo flanks stealing his ball. Poor f.ng idiot I drop him like a got potato till he learns the primary duty of a scrum half. He’s far too full of himself and far too highly overrated for his own good.
M. Steyn is as one dimensional useless as they come. Take his place kicking dimension away from him and he almost single handedly sinks this team into the mire of dismal debilitating mediocrity all by himself with some help from his overrated BB scrummy side kick who between the two of them cannot get a backline going if you gave them a 15 second head start with opponents with blinkers on they would still kick everything into the heavens and hope for the best.
No Pdv must read the riot act now and stop pandering to these twits. If their ego’s can’t stomach it and that goes for the entire bang shoot. Matfield, Smit, Muir, Gold and Fdp or Burger then let them go all the way back to Toulon or Clermont or to Disney Land for all I care. But Pdv better get this show back on the road and ring some changes and it starts at 3 5 8 9 and 10. Fix those positions up and we get going hopefully once again.
November 29th, 2009 at 1:27 pm
162. SpringbokSarah… Damn, my missus is 43 and she is not over it yet…. Teenagers are normally a bit awkward…lol
November 29th, 2009 at 1:27 pm
@Karoolander: #144
I saw him miss some tackles. He did not give us anything in attack.
I would dare to say that if ADI put up a similar performance as he did yesterday you would not have call it “a good solid performance.”
November 29th, 2009 at 1:28 pm
@Langenhoven: The King was the only one who came close to scoring… apparently he likes team who linger around the bottom of the log
November 29th, 2009 at 1:30 pm
proteas heading for crushing defeat to complete the weekend’s picture of doom and gloom.come on chelsea give me some early festive cheer today!
November 29th, 2009 at 1:31 pm
@Langenhoven: wow now I’m awkward… don’t worry, my mom isn’t either
Mom: Sarah did you hear what Joost did?!
Me: Is he a part of the coaching staff?
Mom: No
Me: then I don’t really care
November 29th, 2009 at 1:32 pm
speaking of being a teenager New Moon was awesome tell your daughters they HAVE TO see it
November 29th, 2009 at 1:33 pm
@grant10:
165. grant10… We need to do ourselves a favour mate… We got lucky and unlucky with a few injuries… Nichlous Bendtner is not playing..Great!!… We lost both our left backs.. Gibbs and Clichy..bad!!..
November 29th, 2009 at 1:33 pm
too many boks in comfort zones….just hope PDV got the guts to do what he needs to….its gonna be a rough ride.
November 29th, 2009 at 1:33 pm
@Valkyrie: but didn’t the Proteas play really well on… Friday?
November 29th, 2009 at 1:34 pm
@Langenhoven: i seldom back Arsenal…but firmly in there camp today!
November 29th, 2009 at 1:34 pm
@grant10: what does he need to do?
November 29th, 2009 at 1:37 pm
@SpringbokSarah:
171. SpringbokSarah… wietjy!!! the young people of Today!! Ai…
November 29th, 2009 at 1:38 pm
@SpringbokSarah: yes,but are busy with hari kiri at st,georges today 119 all out and our cape boy trott trying to knock the total off with his eyes closed at the momment.
November 29th, 2009 at 1:39 pm
@SpringbokSarah: rattle some cages….get some senior boks out of comfort zones…put together a succession plan…new strategy and game plan may need player changes….
never easy….
November 29th, 2009 at 1:40 pm
@Langenhoven: roflmao you shouldn’t complain… do you know how much money you save on magazines?
November 29th, 2009 at 1:41 pm
176. grant10… Its gonna be a great game mate.. our youngster are on fire… pity about the loss last week… we had 90% of the game against Sunderland. They had one chance which they took
November 29th, 2009 at 1:42 pm
@Valkyrie: lol who’s that?
@grant10: don’t hold your breath
November 29th, 2009 at 1:44 pm
@grant10: Yah…absolutely no plan B…after dominating the first half (exept for lineouts)and with very little posession… just came out the second half with no plan at all whilst the Irish(Kidney)had obviousely addressed their faults and we were totally outplayed 2nd half due to lack of ideas and predictability…poor show
November 29th, 2009 at 1:46 pm
@Langenhoven: ja….i was gutted midweek….bloody hell….Besikitas at old Trafford!!
November 29th, 2009 at 1:47 pm
@Storm outta hell: dissapointing hey….really tough to lose the ones that count!!
Anyway….roll on 2010…
November 29th, 2009 at 1:50 pm
@SpringbokSarah: hari kiri or the correct word hara kiri means ritual suicide and normally practised by the japanese.
November 29th, 2009 at 1:54 pm
Guys and young Sarah…I am out.. Promised to do the roast today.. Went out with the lads last night.. Payback with roast.. not so bad
November 29th, 2009 at 1:54 pm
@grant10:
Don’t worry, if Sir A wasn’t perturbed I wouldn’t be either. He was happy with the way his youngsters performed in what was a relatively meaningless match, as far as qualifying is concerned. He’s reckons he’ll be fielding a similar team for the last game where ManU need 1 poit to finish top. The way the other groups are going, I don’t think it really matters whether his team is first or second.
November 29th, 2009 at 1:54 pm
@Valkyrie: good grief why are they committing suicide
November 29th, 2009 at 1:55 pm
@Langenhoven: cheers
November 29th, 2009 at 1:58 pm
If you analyze SA rugby properly and compare it to the Ozzies and AB’s you will note that despite all the athletic ability we lack the ability to break down defences with clever footwork and attacking the gain line at speed. When you look at all the SA sides that played the BIL for example we were outthought and outplayed except for in 2 tests. After winning the BIL series we entered the 3N’s with confidence in a rather defensive game plan. Look at Ireland and SA stats over the last year and you will note that these 2 sides have played the least attacking football with the SA backs for example passing something like 11% of the time in the 3N’s versus the AB forwards passing 3 times as much, never mind the backs. Ireland and SA kicked the most , had the least possession and yet won their games off the back of a strong defensive effort.
As a proud Saffer I have to admit we do not teach our boys to play skillful rugby at a young age, we rely on brute strength and bullying. When we come up against sides that can absorb that and even compete at that we start to panic. The problem though is that in the psyche of our rugby players we have never developed the desire to outthink the opposition as all the glory is shown to those who are the biggest, tallest and fastest rather than the best decision makers and the best support players. A coach once said to me that rugby is not a contact sport , it is meant to be played in space and hence a tackle or ruck is called a “breakdown” i.e. play has stopped. In SA we see the breakdown and dominance in that area as the B all and end all.
Our debate should be how do we get our strong, big lads to play clever rugby as well.
November 29th, 2009 at 2:00 pm
@SpringbokSarah:
Sarah Conner?
November 29th, 2009 at 2:00 pm
@SpringbokSarah: mostly honour.they have have officialy stopped with the ritual and nowadays you can still voluntarily participate in it just like the all blacks at rugby world cups.
November 29th, 2009 at 2:02 pm
@Langenhoven: cheers boet!
November 29th, 2009 at 2:04 pm
@bananaboy:
Spot on. I’ve felt for a while that we should adopt the Kiwi approach with the kids and grade them according to weight and size, rather than age.
November 29th, 2009 at 2:06 pm
i can’t decide today whether to were my chelsea or arsenal replica top…i think i’ll go with chelsea, they have to maintain their 5-point lead on Manure!
November 29th, 2009 at 2:08 pm
@Transformation: LOL….Arsenal all the way!
November 29th, 2009 at 2:10 pm
oh well at least we’re now officially better WC champions that both England and Australia, having claimed the IRB Team of the Year during our WC reign…
November 29th, 2009 at 2:11 pm
@Transformation:
Wear your refs replica outfit. That way you’ll know you’re backing the winner.
November 29th, 2009 at 2:14 pm
@Transformation: Like most Arsenal and Chelsea fans you can’t make up your mind
whereas ManU supporters are faithful through thick and thin.
November 29th, 2009 at 2:14 pm
@Transformation: combine the jerseys and in that way you will always support the winner.
November 29th, 2009 at 2:15 pm
Just get rid of this idiotic ou doos idea that our senior player coaches get to chuck their toys out their cot’s when we trying to inculcate a running game because we want to play to our ‘traditional’ Saffa glory boy ’strengths’, because they not strengths at all. They are god damn WEAKNESSES.!
November 29th, 2009 at 2:16 pm
@AndrewBK: Interesting that the AB’s and Bokke have both won it 3 times now since the inception of the award. Twice under JW by the way
November 29th, 2009 at 2:20 pm
@David: accept when manu is involved where the chap in black always supports red!
November 29th, 2009 at 2:20 pm
BTW. Did anyone see the report in the Sunday Times of PdeVs previous meeting with Paddy O’B last year? Apparently he told him that he’d wanted to meet God ever since he was a little boy, and here he was in the same room with him. You got to love the guy.
November 29th, 2009 at 2:22 pm
@skopskiet: Barney lost the plot(and a lot of respect)when he lost the lineout(skew)and then chucked the ball away…that was the turning point in the match….I won’t be surprised if he retires soon…
November 29th, 2009 at 2:22 pm
@David: LOL…classic
November 29th, 2009 at 2:24 pm
@skopskiet: Let me guess – you’d drop the Bulls players (but not BH as he’s now WP) and you’d replace them with the entire WP team?
November 29th, 2009 at 2:25 pm
@bananaboy: Yep all things pretty equal…when you’re up you’re up…expect the AB’s to take it next year tho’….both Bulls and Boks gonna find the going tough next year
November 29th, 2009 at 2:26 pm
@skopskiet: Skoppie we don’ t have any other strengths to play to at the moment. Players like Earl Rose etc cannot feature without the ball so we have to have the ball winning and retention capabilities. My problem is that if you look at yesterdays game we won the scrums which is heavily reliant on body weight and lower body strength as much as upper body strength but then when we ran into contact we coughed the ball up. Even Brussouw when he had his hands on the ball in a tussle with Wallace lost the possession. You can see that the other teams are getting much stronger in the upper body , just look a Heaslip for example.
This means our traditional playing style is coming under threat in Internationals but we haven’t spent the time in our structures teaching our boys to be patient, run different lines, maintain the support, keep the pill moving, play into space, play the game at pace etc. When we won the scrums yesterday we kept pushing forward when we had 5 meters on either side to attack from , surely we were not thinking of a pushover try from the 10 meter line.
November 29th, 2009 at 2:26 pm
@skopskiet: The Boks must get shot of PdV rather. The entire Bok management haven’t got a clue in my opinion though there’s no-one else in SA who can take over unless we can convince a foreign coach to step in.
November 29th, 2009 at 2:27 pm
@Valkyrie: He knows what’ s best for him.
November 29th, 2009 at 2:28 pm
@David: @bananaboy: ha ha ha i love peter de villiers! The man is a either a ****** or a total genius. When he started he said he can get the springboks to play 40% better & everyone including the “journalist” that wrote this article said he was talking k@k.
He also said he wants these “world cup winning” springboks to “play the situation” and he was ridiculed for a “helter skelter” gameplan.
In yesterday’s performance does anyone see where a 40% improvement can be added? Can we really say that our “world class” halfback combination played what was in front of them ie “morne there’s a rookie “sexton” in front of you can you take the ball up to him & sidestep/fake/dummy him to allow you to pass through? I’m not asking you to play jake white rugby or pdv rugby or “structured” rugby, i’m asking you to bamboozle this 24 yr old with one cap under the belt & get past him & then pass to wynand, is that easy enough?”
Earlier in the year Graham Henry called our skop & jag rugby “boring”, i was vocal in saying where he can stuff his comments and shouted “look @ the scoreboard”, on the evidence of yesterday both australia & new zealand played the most enterprising, exciting rugby! They smashed into the opposition @ the tackle point, the gain parity in the set phases & out-thought the hell out of their opponents! Kudos to them.
Good Lord can you please bless our country with a creative flyhalf, please Nkosi i’m going to die if have to watch & praise dan carter & matt giteau for another season.
November 29th, 2009 at 2:28 pm
Wow that was disappointing to say the least.
Scrums were sensational and now we lost the lineouts? I think this was one big factor, so many of our moves come from lineouts, and we were lucky to get a tap ball.
Then everytime we ran the ball, we looked dangerous, why not more? I agree enough of the %%#$@#@!@# kicking every time. Would rather have conceded a few tries and scored a few than just do the same mindless kicking and chasing when it was not working at all.
Morne is mainly in the team for his kicking, this has been shocking on this tour. Cost us Irish test, maybe French one also.
So who else we got at fly half?
November 29th, 2009 at 2:30 pm
@bananaboy: Just look at the ABs – they constantly offload all the time. Quick ball, passed down the line. Defenders are stretched as the ball is move away from them all the time while ABs are making progress as the ball gets recycled and BAM suddenly they’re on your try line.
The ABs play as an efficient unit while the Boks play as individual glory hunters. Each trying desperately to be heroic but getting nowhere. SA rugby is in dire straits.
November 29th, 2009 at 2:32 pm
@Storm outta hell: i won’t be too upset (or surprised) if the AB’s dominate next year. it will follow history of them peaking before the WC… although the AB’s seriously can’t lose the WC 2011 in their own backyard… can they?
November 29th, 2009 at 2:33 pm
@David: lol…i don’t have a ref’s kit dave…
November 29th, 2009 at 2:33 pm
@bananaboy: lol.he probably doesn’t like the prospect of sir alex’s 10hour chewed bubblegum shoved into his mouth!
November 29th, 2009 at 2:33 pm
Plan ‘B’?
And what about Plan ‘A’?
November 29th, 2009 at 2:34 pm
@Crouching Tiger Hidden Bokke: Heyneke’s back…maybe second time around he’ll get a fair chance…but knowing SARU and our politicos it’ll be Alistair Coetsee…just because y’know
November 29th, 2009 at 2:36 pm
@Transformation: Aus and the ABs seem to be always up for it. The ABs were on fire last night. I think what this tour highlights is the huge chasm between the mentality of Aus/ABs and the Boks.
For the Boks playing rugby is just a job but for the ABs its their life.
When the Boks go on tour they get down and depressed – “oh no not another tour, lets just get this over and done with”. w
With the ABs its the chance to show case their talents and show up these overrated NH teams just how kak they are.
Bet you there was big celebrations and laughter in the ABs changing room as oppossed to the Boks which was probably as quiet as a morgue. Pretty depressing being a Bok supporter right now.
November 29th, 2009 at 2:38 pm
@AndrewBK: are they taking bets on the world cup yet?would be real confident to put a few bucks down that they will commit hari kiri again.
November 29th, 2009 at 2:38 pm
@AndrewBK: Watch France peak in 2011…and knock the AB’s out in the semi’s…PRESSURE
November 29th, 2009 at 2:42 pm
@Valkyrie: @bananaboy: fyi boys, i don’t support either of the teams…my TEAM is playing in El Clasico tonight! La Blaugrana “more than a club” the Catalan Maestros that destroyed Manure in the Champions League Final! Barcelona!!!!
But in the EPL any team that beats ManYoo is fine by me! remember Burnley?
November 29th, 2009 at 2:42 pm
@Crouching Tiger Hidden Bokke: Agree wholeheartedly and for all the athleticism that we have we don’t have a playing culture or style that can beat all-comers as I believe the AB’s do. Even our most skillful players cannot play for 80 minutes at hammer and tongs pace . I’ve watched Ruan play in a game for both the Boks and the Sharks live and noted the amount of times he was taking a breather. Our guys are nowhere near the fitness levels of the AB’s and Ozzies I think and when you play as individuals you get that.
I coach an under 14 side and the other day we went 17-0 up in the first 15 minutes and you thought well we will run riot, but then my boys decided to stand out of the rucks looking for the glory ball and attack the gain line without support and although we camped in the opposition half we only scored 7 more points in the whole game. I bollocked them at training and yesterday we played a far better side away and thumped them 50-7 simply because these boys were told that they will be dropped (irrespective of how good they were or the consequences to the team) if they didn’t adopt a team attitude. They played as a team , committed themselves to getting clean,fast ball and ran into space with support and scored 8 tries against a better side.
November 29th, 2009 at 2:42 pm
@Storm outta hell: Not convinced Meyer has the answers either. He’ll want to play poison bulls rugby. No we need a coach with fresh ideas and a deep understanding of rugby. One who’s not afraid to change the culture of Bok rugby. But I hate to say this the problem is more deep seated than that. It starts at provincial level. None of the provincial sides play enterprising rugby. Its pretty much kick and chase most of the time. That’s the SA way of playing and until this changes there’s likely to be little change amongst the Boks.
I said from the start this EOYT would be the tour from hell and 2010 is going to be the year from hell for SA rugby at S14 and international level.
November 29th, 2009 at 2:45 pm
@Transformation: I support Barca except for when they play Man Utd. There’s only 1 Glorious Club in World Football though.
November 29th, 2009 at 2:48 pm
All right guys I’m off shopping with the wife. Have to keep her happy and here in Holland you only get 1 weekend when the shops are open on a Sunday.
November 29th, 2009 at 2:48 pm
@Crouching Tiger Hidden Bokke: PdV was supposed to be that coach…until his brand of rugby was branded as loosing rugby as opposed to the Bulls brand of winning rugby…
I expect the Stormers to carry on their winning ways next year
November 29th, 2009 at 2:50 pm
@bananaboy: Yep I think you are spot on. ABs have also had a long season but they looked fresh as daisies last night, full of beans! We need fitter, more committed and passionate players who see rugby as their live and not a job that is entry to celebrity fame, commentary jobs and life long endorsements.
Do you think Dan Carter or Ritchie McCaw cares about what advertising campaign they’re going to feature in next? Doubt it very much but they’re flippin concerned about winning. I envy ABs supporters because they go into their matches confident while we go in with dread and most times are proven correct.
The only player I think is truly committed enough is Habana, Bakkies and Juan Smith. They never stop trying. The rest are just there because its a job.
November 29th, 2009 at 2:51 pm
Wow I’m being moderated for using proper english and no swear words?
November 29th, 2009 at 2:52 pm
@bananaboy: Yep I think you are spot on. ABs have also had a long season but they looked fresh as daisies last night, full of beans! We need fitter, more committed and passionate players who see rugby as their live and not a job that is entry to celebrity fame, commentary jobs and life long endorsements.
Do you think Dan Carter or Ritchie McCaw cares about what advertising campaign they’re going to feature in next? Doubt it very much but they’re concerned about winning. I envy ABs supporters because they go into their matches confident while we go in with dread and most times are proven correct.
The only player I think is truly committed enough is Habana, Bakkies and Juan Smith. They never stop trying. The rest are just there because its a job.
November 29th, 2009 at 2:53 pm
@Transformation: if i had to go for a spanish team i would go for them over franco’s boys. can’t wait for the wc draw,as i got tickets, this friday to see if i will have the pleasure to see messi and my favourite national team argentina after bafana play in the opening game at the new cape town stadium.
November 29th, 2009 at 2:53 pm
Frankly I think most of the comments on this blog are uncalled
for and plain and simple trash.
Players dont become useless overnight.The Boks failure has
a lot to do with the planning and preparation and conditioning
of our players.Frankly players like John Smit may carry a lot
of bulk but they look podgy compared to the Aussies and
All Blacks.
Yes the Boks trounced the ABS and Aussies but a lot of that
success hinged around the kicking ability of Steyn and almost
brutal physical forward play.
Now we must remember that the ABS and Aussies were the recipients of that physicality but yet having played almost
the same amount of rugby they appeared to stronger and fitter
and more hungry on their EOYT than the Boks.
This to me indicates better coaching, player management and
fitness levels.
This tour was supposed to be the icing on the cake of one
of the most successful seasons in South African rugby history
but has done much to put a damper on the whole thing.
The coaching staff and selectors much share responsibility
for the tours failure because they are responsible for
bad selections in critical areas.
Both world Cups were won by teams with strong front rows
good lock combinations and loose trios who had mastered
the art of scrumming.
It was clear for all to see once the Bok front row was
exposed by the Cheetahs that front row selection would
play a vital role in the tour’s success,but yet players
were picked who suffered against the Cheetahs.
If it were not that PDV was able to pick European based
players the tour could have been an even greater disaster.
After his outstanding success as a kicker one had to expect
that Steyn as all players would have a dip in form,yet
no reliable second kicker was included in the touring squad.
Steyn missed against the French and even more against the
Irish.
Had he managed only 50% of his kicks both results could
have been different.Much blame was assigned to different
rugby balls.So why were no balls in South Africa made
available for practising purposes.
I am gutted that bad selections, poor player management
and coaching has led to a dismal and of a fantastic season
and find it very difficult to put all blame on the players
as some on this blog do.
November 29th, 2009 at 2:55 pm
Juan Smith could be the answer to cover Bakkies at lock…we have enough back rowers but not enough real tough secound rowers…..not like Hargraeves if you know whant I mean….
November 29th, 2009 at 2:56 pm
@Crouching Tiger Hidden Bokke: that never happened to me ,a model blogger of immaculate standards!
November 29th, 2009 at 3:00 pm
@Storm outta hell: as far as i see it pdv will not take the springboks in a new direction with the core of the “jake white” springboks being dominant in the team, the two concepts are mutually exclusive. How can guys with so much experience need to be spoonfed that they need to switch between the prototype that annihilated aus in perth & the kick & chase low risk rugby?
November 29th, 2009 at 3:07 pm
@Crouching Tiger Hidden Bokke:
You right about changing the culture and approach of Bok rugby. I think that’s what PdeV tried to do but was hijacked by the senior guys who managed to convince him that they were more comfortable playing the way they were used to.
Skop is quite right in his assessment that it’s the established players who’re holding the team to ransom and need to be brought down to earth.
For a start, I’d try playing Morne with a new SH to allow him to start making the decisions. The guy is not as one dimensional as he appears but now needs to stand up and say FU to his Bulls elders. I genuinely believe that it’s time he moved provinces and was allowed the chance to take full responisibilty for his own game.
We have to take our physical approach as a given and start from there. At the moment it’s become an end in itself.
November 29th, 2009 at 3:08 pm
Boks need a real back up to Bakkies……why bringing Hargraeves on tour ??
November 29th, 2009 at 3:08 pm
Load of codswallop.
Stupid strategy, all those up and unders cost us the game.
Players didn’t lack a plan-B, they lacked direction from the side of the park.
Hope the three of them learnt from this exercise.
Well done Irish, it won’t happen often!!!
November 29th, 2009 at 3:19 pm
@Kronung: it happened three times in a row now mate!can’t seem to win in dublin anymore.
November 29th, 2009 at 3:24 pm
Smit must just retire and get it over with Matfield can follow suit. Between these glorified player coaches we basically stagnating in our own juice. I’ve never seen such dire inconsequential rubbish rugby that this team dished up this Eoyt and the pain of it is that its been staring us in the face ever since these Gavin Rich glory hunters declared they pulled a palace revolt during 2008 to revert to our so called ’strengths’.
Anyone thinking Heyneke Meyer would have been the answer is living in doo doo dream land. The whole entire problem is giving these high profile fools far too much say and credibility for their own good. Muir is a joke, Gold hardly much to write home about. Smit and Matfield and Fdp supposedly running the show behind the scenes coughing up and exposing their blatantly poor levels of professional ability time and again.
Its been coming thick and fast, the illusion that we arrived in our own gratuitous glory after fluking a string of kick n chase fictitious victories due to applying one dimensional power play pressure but sure as dem rotten apples must fall from the tree when the oppo reads our open book its as easy as snatching candy from a baby.
I watched yesterday as we led from a dominant platform and slowly but surely wittled our own advantage away by negating every attacking opportunity apart from one and putting boot to f.ng ball time and god forsaken time again. M. Steyn is a dead end option to nowhere and Fdp a compliancy in the problem.
I been saying it long enough already the cancer in our team is believing our own overrated hype and especially believing this dumb *** kicking game is ever going to get us anywhere far. The real problem with our backline rests squarely with Fdp and M. Steyn. Change those two now and watch this entire team swing around.
This my team for 2010
Blaauw / Beast / vd Merwe
Liebenberg / Strauss / Maku
Nel / Buys / BJ
Sykes / Steenkamp / De Villiers
Bekker / Hargreaves / Raubenheimer
Brussow / Potgieter
Deysel / Louw / Smith
Vermeulen / Alberts / Spies
S. Pretorius / Hougaard
Pienaar / M. Steyn / JL Potgieter
Habana / Mapoe
Grant / De Jongh
Fourie / Jacobs / WO
jPP / Joe Pietersen
Viljoen / Kirchner
November 29th, 2009 at 3:40 pm
yes a scrum half like Sarel Pretorius might very well unlock Morne Steyn’s latent potential. Fdp stagnate’s the hell out the game, he takes a goddamn age to clear away from the ruck. The difference between the Ab or Aus back line continuity compared to ours is almost a joke if it weren’t so crying pathetic. Genia supplying Giteau or Adams supplying Pienaar compared to Fdp supplying Steyn is like watching two different games altogether the latter almost as frustrating as watching paint drying on a damp wall. Fdp has been hyped up to be this god of scrum halves to the inevitable destruction of our back line play. He is almost the cancer in the setup and I’d drop him and get a Pretorius or an Adams in fast to set the pattern right, and abolish out of hand kicking unless it is absolutely imperative for field position or defense. Steyn must either learn to shift the ball to the centers at some go forward momentum or give way to Pienaar even at the cost of losing points to some missed penalty kicks.
November 29th, 2009 at 5:24 pm
@skopskiet: keep drinking boet, keep drinking. And keep telling yourself, “I know a lot about rugby”.
November 29th, 2009 at 5:32 pm
One thing that had me seeing red and spitting bile and acid: A few minutes left in the game, JdV breaks down the left wing and gets into some serious space. JPP on his shoulder when he makes the break, he then SLOWS DOWN to a canter, leaving Jean to sprint into space on his own, looking around for the offload while the laziest springbok ever to wear a Bok jersey jogs along 5 metres behind!! JdV Goes to ground and JP half-arsedly joins the ruck – absolutely a massive try opportunity left out there to rot – I mean WTF!!!!???? Anyone else see it the way i did? Or did I miss something? I would have him doing pushups till he PUKED if I was coach, and carrying drinks for the next 5 matches
*&*(*^*&%*^!!!!!!!
November 29th, 2009 at 5:38 pm
So we won the scrum, but lost the test.
November 29th, 2009 at 5:46 pm
yeah thanks to Fdp and M Steyn we coughed up the test on a plate maak die overrated Bulle almal koeie
November 29th, 2009 at 5:56 pm
yeah they all buggered, had it in the 1st half, but the irish too hungry in 2nd half – our boys beaten fair and square – if u dont have the intensity, might as well go sit on the beach, cos not going to win.
November 29th, 2009 at 6:02 pm
@skopskiet: But the skop skop skop game plan is exactly what Div prescribes for the Boks. You saw that yesterday and throughout the 2009 season.
November 29th, 2009 at 6:04 pm
@skopskiet: They did exactly what their overrated overhyped coach told them to do. Make Div the koei.
November 29th, 2009 at 6:28 pm
JC – Another guy that for some reason thinks Pienaar is this attacking god. He sucks at attacking as well! Just because he isn’t good at kicking doesn’t mean he is then automatically a good runner! He is slow and weak! When has he ever beaten a tackle? Matt Giteau is what you call a good running flyhalf. Pienaar is the most over-rated player of all time and doesn’t deserve a place in the squad. Also, why does everyone say that he’s this game maker with a great vision of the game? Where the hell did people get this idea? Pienaar ruins way more games then he contributes to. Get over this guy! He is useless! I’d rather have Bosman at fly-half then this idiot.
November 29th, 2009 at 6:35 pm
@rugbywriter: Bosman at FH? I guess that says more about how useless Pienaar is.
November 29th, 2009 at 7:18 pm
@David: @David:
LMAO
oh the WEE MAESTRO
November 29th, 2009 at 7:35 pm
Nothing wrong with Bok rugby chaps. Can’t win them all. So suck it in and accept that the Boks on the end of year tour are out on their feet. Like a racehorse running too many races, this EOYT has been 5 matches too many for the men in green.
Its not the coaches fault, not the players fault. Its more a strctural problem in SA rugby. Too many matches.
Some of the guys played S14, BI Lions, Currie Cup Final (most matches in Currie Cup) and then the EOYT.
Other nations may play as many games, but the Springbok style – when at its best, an unplayable power game – induces more wear and tear than say, the AB’s or Aus.
I worry about next year – Super 15.
It seems that the men in charge of SARU are not thinking and acting for the Springboks benefit – expanding S15, giving in to O Niell which will be at the expense of Currie Cup. Springboks should also have central contracts so that their recperation can be managed.
Prof Noakes may be right about next year. Prepare for the worst Bok supporters. Performances will not reflect ability, they will be affected by battered bodies.
Reality bites. Its started already on the EOYT.
November 29th, 2009 at 7:36 pm
@Atreides: see u got a real bone to pick with JPP?
November 29th, 2009 at 7:38 pm
@skopskiet: i feel ur passion there mate
however when i see a team sheet like that its easy to see why there needs to be only 1 coach
November 29th, 2009 at 7:42 pm
@rugbywriter: we’re so quick to judge and are very very fickle
Morne Steyn to me, be4 this EOYT, was the number 1 flyhalf in world rugby cos he could dictate how the game shold be played regardless of what you as an opposition wanted to accomplish
i am however aware that with him at flyhalf i doubt the boks could put 50 past England like we did last year with ruan Pienaar at FH. However Pienaar has had some SHOCKERS this year and is a real confidence player
EISH
Now lets nt discard both of them, we just ned to manage them better. lets nt be so fickle
November 29th, 2009 at 7:46 pm
@Heavens Game: all this doom and gloom really got me worried
however ppl shouldnt forget that eg. the Aussies dnt even have a domestic competition so imagine how much less minutes of rugby they played compared to the core of our team, some who played in semi’s finals and currie cup games
we could already see in the currie cup that some of our players we already fatigued
we paly a heavily PHYSICAL game and we ned to acknowledge tht. thats y its so important to take into cognince what Prof Noakes is saying
all we can do is try to shape public perception when the going gets tough next
if PdV didnt win coach of the year this year after all the trophies..lord help us when next yr Prof Noakes predictions come to fruition
November 29th, 2009 at 8:03 pm
@Papoose: I fear we have started to see the effects of player fatigue already. An emergency resolution needs to be made to take our 1st XV Boks out of the round robin part of the S15 (i.e. the part which is exactly the same as the Currie Cup, but with 5 teams). They can then start playing again when the top teams from the SA “conference” plays against teams from the other “conferences”. But I think SARU management have signed something which will force SA to play their best players. It seems that SARU have been very short-sighted.
November 29th, 2009 at 8:33 pm
Oh come on! Just listen to you guys. We have a coach and a team and none of those guys have suddenly become bad or useless, whether intentionally or by chance. This mass hysteria is stupid. So we lost. Big deal. Wtf. And yes, the reasons might be whatever, but there is no reason to act like this.
So we might have to revislay the s14 next nyear, while PdVit our gameplan, or our playing resources or our conditioning or whatever, but it’s not the end of the world. Where to start?
I say give everyone a break. Let them have a rest and let’s regroup next year. What we need to do is develop an expanded squad- one which is adaptable and capable of playing any number of gameplans/styles of play, and we need to come up with a horses for courses approach. Rugby is intended as a sport for all shapes and sizes, not just the oversized freaks of nature amongst us. We have evolved ourselves into a corner with the type of player and the playing style we prefer and have come to the end of a cul de sac.
We need a new approach to conditioning and skills training. And even that should not be contrived. It will happen naturally through evolution within the game. What worked this year won’t necessarily work next year. And the wheel keeps on turning. It’s no big deal. Afterall, it’s just a game, and if I were the coach, I know what I would do.
Just like I reckon PdV knows what he wants to do and where he wants to go with the game. In the end, he will stand or fall by what he chooses to do. That is one thing that has never changed. Untill then we can only live in hope that he gets it right.
November 29th, 2009 at 8:36 pm
Sorru. Par 2 should read “So we might have to revisit our gameplan…”
November 29th, 2009 at 8:49 pm
@catleya: Well said.
It’s always disappointing to lose.
But having watched rugby for many many years this is a highlight year for me.
We clearly have lots of work, and I am sure that that work will be done.
Brussow & Morne Steyn came through.
Francois Steyn an excellent fullback.
FdP runs the team – a travesty not IRB player of the year, but I am sure he doesn’t really care.
Bekker is getting better, but we need another Danie Roussow (Willem Alberts put your hand up).
Smit is a kak 3, very good 2 – but we have at least 3 Tightheads (BJ, WP Nel, Buys).
Loosehead – also good talent (CJ, Wian, Beast).
Ruan will come right, but needs a break and to play 10 for Sharks.
12 is a worry – WO good but still not great test player from a creative side, Jean is Ireland. Adi is not an option.
More looseforwards than we can shake a stick at, but unfortunately I think Ryan Kankowski was terribly exposed.
November 29th, 2009 at 8:56 pm
you’re delusional some of you.
Fdp runs the team wtf, are you practically gone totally nuts?
The quickest way to rectify the one dimensional pathetic non penetrating rugby you just been witnessing throughout 2009 is change the half back pairing. Fdp and M. Steyn the veritable cancer in the system. Seems the bulk of Saffa rugby followers are totally blind to the absolute obvious. Make a one dimensional fool into a god and fall headlong into your own hyped up trap.
November 29th, 2009 at 9:01 pm
Our problem is we have become reactive in our tactical approach as opposed to being proactive and playing “our game”.
To win at all costs has become the most important thing. We were prepared to play an uninspiring unimaginative game based on kicking, high impact and contact for the sake of winning, and have suppressed individual skills, brilliance and collective cohesion. And now the rest of the world has taken the next step up while we are lagging behind.
We keep on talking about attacking space. What space? That’s bullshit. WE NEED TO LEARN TO CREATE SPACE BEFORE WE CAN ATTACK IT. AND THAT IS WHERE OUR PROBLEMS LIE!
WE HAVE HISTORICALLY STIFFLED CREATIVITY IN OUR PLAY.
November 29th, 2009 at 9:02 pm
@catleya: Square, mate. I think with the type of game the Boks play when at their well rested best – they do damage to the opposition, but unfortunately to themselves too. Their “Smashmouth” rugby is awesome to watch and when the Boks overwhelm teams it is a great sight. Unfortunately they have to be rested. The Bok management know the optimum style for the Boks, first established by Christie, rediscovered by White and perpetuated by PdV. All that needs to happen now is player continuity and rest. Like you mentioned I think conditioning and rest are priorities now.
November 29th, 2009 at 9:03 pm
@skopskiet: Skops. If you watch a highlight reel of this years S14 & 3N it will include some phenomenal rugby from the gifted Fourie du Preez. Easily the best scrumhalf in world rugby.
But, I will agree with you, that our game under pressure becomes one-dimensional and predictable and easy to play against if you match us physically.
It was good to see a dominant to stable scrum yesterday.
November 29th, 2009 at 9:04 pm
@Heavens Game: I think both France (in particular) and Ireland proved that it mythical for Boks to overwhelm teams. We are quite easy to match.
November 29th, 2009 at 9:07 pm
Our 15 man game needs to take a leaf from Paul Treu’s book. He has taken the 7’s Boks from a team of also-rans to being world beaters, WITHOUT THE LUXURY OF SIZE AND BRUTE STRENGTH simply because the 7’s game is a different animal. But it is a bold, brave and very imaginative step that is required.
November 29th, 2009 at 9:18 pm
Get shot of the hyped up gods in Sa rugby and you halfway to success. Its exactly these prima donna’s that can’t react to situations. Where was Smit or Matfield or Fdp or Burger yesterday or against France when the sh’t was hitting the fan. Yet its these same overrated palooka’s that read the riot act and throw their toys about wanting to run the game plan their way and promote this pathetic archaic non eventful dinosaur rugby strategy. Get then out of the equation and move forward they are actually stagnating and killing the progress of our rugby beyond what anyone here realize. Get them out they are bad news and destroying any chance of progressive success.
November 29th, 2009 at 9:22 pm
Burger had a great game actually. 100’s of tackles and very sweet positioning for his try (at pace), and some nice line-out work.
Not sure Juan has that jersey in the bag.
Worst game I have ever seen Victor Matfield play.
Fdp only average, which by his standards poor.
November 29th, 2009 at 9:41 pm
We will not win the world cup wih Morne Steyn as flyhalf. He is far to one dimentional and the bok backline is ineffective with him at the helm. He did well behind a powerful pack of forwards and a simple gameplan in the tri nations but I do not think the same tactics will work again next season (i think the end of the year tour showed that) and Steyn does not offer much else.
November 29th, 2009 at 9:53 pm
@SodaJoe: I couldn’t agree more! If we use the powerbase we have established and bring in some specific creative and linking/continuity skills into play in key areas, this team will evolve into a major force. It will take some brave paradigm shifts and for starters there will be no place for luxuries such as quotas at the top echelon. It should not even come into the equasion. We have to play the best players in the correct positions irrespective of colour.
We need to develop the game from grass roots level up, not from the Boks downwards. That approach has proved itself in practice to be flawed. But I know that is a discussion for another day, which has to start at getting more rugby-orientated MALE teachers/mentors into our primary schools to cultivate and coach the basics and a love for the game, and to do that we need to involve big business through an incentive scheme to sponsor governing body coaching/teaching positions.
For now though, we need to take some action. And I believe this 2009 EOYT has been a blessing in disguise in that respect. It has exposed some dead-wood-which-has-to-be-cut-out, some works-in-various-stages-of-progress, and a couple of even-though-still-valuable-carthorses-that-have-to-be-culled-for-the-sake-of-progress, as well as a few rough-diamonds-that-can-be-polished.
And some of the changes will even be unpopular amongst certain sectors of the supporter base, but if we want to succeed they have to be made for the improvement of the team as a whole.
November 29th, 2009 at 9:55 pm
JC at least you got the headline correct. It took 75 minutes for FDP to phucking realise that he had to move the ball down the line. We looked dangerous and nearly sneaked it. Why are our journalists and public so mesmerised by this guy’s one dimensional play. Yes our lineout was pathetic but if FDP utilised the ball he got correctly we would have won the game. He contributed GREATLY to our two test defeats on this tour. No wonder he never got the IRB player of the year award. (The award, imho, should have gone to Brussow who certainly enhanced his reputation. MS will never develop his flyhalf play with FDP playing the way he does. JCs obsession of WO at the obvious expense of AJ is laughable. Olivier did ok in the tackle but he lacks AJs ability to read the play as was evident when he cut back inside with a 3 man overlap. The scrums have certainly sorted itself out, JS must stay at hooker although his throwing in surely had something to do with the lineout fiasco. SB again proved tha 7 is his rightful slot.
November 29th, 2009 at 10:10 pm
Shakes I don’t quite realize how come its only a handful of saffa supporters like you and I being maybe part of that minority handful that realize what a dismal useless self centered and idiotic one dimensional non productive game strategy is when this idiot that everyone practically idolizes as gods gift to Sa rugby is actually the very cause of all the damn malady and disease in the system. Drop the fool and see how quickly this team comes right. Fdp never did much for Sa rugby as much as everyone thinks he’s the best player on the planet he is a one dimensional and self centered opportunist seeker who don’t know squat about getting his back line away ever. All his great plays have been individualist pieces of so called brilliance but its never about getting the backline going its always about Fdp first and foremost and when it don’t work he mopes around the rugby field like a spoiled brat looking to the ref to offer him hand outs when the oppo loose forwards disrupt his slow serving slow reactive ball.
November 29th, 2009 at 10:12 pm
Yes No doubt Boks were tired
It really showed in 2nd half/
Cant understand why BJ was taken off???????
My earlier postings before game about Bekker were correct
I counted him in backline 6 times in first half
He plays far too loose and with Matfield a passenger (very tired) Danie had to play tighter.
Bottom line we missed out kicks (Missed F steyn) and Ireland were better on the day
November 29th, 2009 at 10:15 pm
Our poor kicking did not help either
Fdp and steyne were poor.
Kirshner was steady did what was asked.
Jf and Jdv need more ball IMO
November 29th, 2009 at 10:18 pm
The scrum in last minute in front of posts should have gone right and not left. Defences are stronger to teh left
Poor decision
A pick by Danie right to Fdp with either Jf or Kisrshner coming in could have been the try needed
November 29th, 2009 at 10:19 pm
@skopskiet: Yes, drop FdP for Ricky Januarie. That’ll do. Or for Ruan Pienaar.
Both of these players are better than FdP and Pigs will fly.
With concordes?
November 29th, 2009 at 10:21 pm
@skopskiet:
Skoppie Hi there
I know your feelings about Fdp but he is still a very good 9.
Yes we have a certain style of play and when we have more good ball going forward we tend to benefit by his skills.
So I have to disagree
November 29th, 2009 at 10:23 pm
@skopskiet: Skop, I saw the writing on the wall during the winter tests already. Kick and chase beat the ABs cos Henry insisted on the wrong tactics and playing Rokocoko instead of Jane and Carter missed two matches. Bottom line is that this gameplan is kak and anyone who thinks we will win WC2011 without the ball and always having to make more than twice the tackles of the opposition needs a brain transplant.
November 29th, 2009 at 10:24 pm
Plus skoppie many people at the IRB and other international sides also think he is a great player even though he did not get the award.
And they are not white South africans
November 29th, 2009 at 10:24 pm
Must go – the wife needs attention. Cheers all for some illuminating thoughts
November 29th, 2009 at 10:27 pm
@Shakes:
Yeah some poor tactics
Taking Bj off was dumb.
Bakkies was missed big time
Danie is solid but had to play tight, because we had 3 wings
Fdp and Steyn seemed to be geared for a wet windy game but did not change and run the ball much
and when they kicked it was poor.
JF the best center in the world maybe ?????
November 29th, 2009 at 10:30 pm
@Heavens Game: Emotional rants like this cannot take away from the fact that FDP played kuk on this tour and it has proven what I said even during the 3N WE NEED AN ALTERNATIVE TO FDP. It is different to saying get rid of FDP totally. I’m hoping that PDV sees the light.
November 29th, 2009 at 10:30 pm
Aslo Ireland in 1st half had 60 possession
Why??? We kick away good tight ball and kick away counter attack ball
November 29th, 2009 at 10:33 pm
@Shakes:
Yes we need an option to Fdp when he is a bit off form, and we want to change things a bit
I am not sure who Not Ricky maybe Adams but he is also a bull, Hougard is like Fdp
Maybe Ruan ??????
November 29th, 2009 at 10:34 pm
skopskiet go and look at the latest copy of sarugby magazine with schalk on the cover and read the article on fourie du preez it is titled -pure genius- then you will understand the reluctance to recognise what you are suggesting. This player has been praised & given god-like status ad nauseum
November 29th, 2009 at 10:41 pm
@CoachPete: Hi Coach, I don’t get the 3 wings. Yes BJ should have stayed on. My rtings for FDP vs France and Irish are 3 and 4 repectively. MS’ goalkicking was well below his standards but his overall play is very much dictated by the ball he got from FDP. JF is strong and his running lines are that of a winger. Mind you he is not as solid as what you think in the tackle and misses many.He surely cannot be in the class of BOD, CS, SM etc
November 29th, 2009 at 10:43 pm
@Shakes:
Bekker on the wing. I counted him in back line 1st half 5 times
He plays to loose
November 29th, 2009 at 10:46 pm
@Shakes:
I rate JF very high I see a player who creates opportunitues (skalks try)
I see him making his tackles and coving like crazy.
As an ex center I rate him way up there.
He needs to see more ball and with Fdp MS and WO there in front of him he sees very little.
Ok cheers guys
November 29th, 2009 at 10:51 pm
@CoachPete: I think I said it last week Bekker is a phenomenal athlete and gets around. Not sure I agree and I actually thought he was third best behind Brussow ans SB. So if I read you correctly one of your favourites is being stifled by the best scrumhalf on the planet
November 29th, 2009 at 10:55 pm
these people are all f’ak’d in the head deluded. They seriously think because Jake White says it or because IRB think it that this one dimensional idiot is God’s gift to Sa rugby.
Yes January was head and shoulders superior to Fdp in 2008 but they couldn’t goddamn see it. They should have left January running the show behind the scrum in 2008. Had they played January throughout we would not have lost the tri nations like we did. Even Pienaar at 9 is a better option than this kicking slow serving doos at the base of the scrum.
What these twits can’t see is that it is exactly Fdp that is killing our game. They simply cannot see it but it as exactly the fact that get Fdp out of there and you will witness an entirely new proactive game plan unfold. Leave that twat *** palooka running the show behind the scrum and no way in hell do we progress from this limited dire delinquent game plan we gone and buried ourselves under. Fdp is the root cause of the entire f.ng malady see it for what it is its plain as bloody daylight. Open your infatuated rugbygod infested idolatory eyes.
November 29th, 2009 at 10:59 pm
Does anyone else think Habana’s move to WP could be due to Bulls tactics of kick everything and chase. He looked by far the most dangerous with ball in hand and maybe if the flyhalf or scrumhalf would spread the ball he’d get more chances.
November 29th, 2009 at 11:36 pm
The Springboks must have two distinct “pods.” A SH squad and a NH squad. The SH should be based around the philosophies that won 2009 3N: lineout domination, 80%+ goal-kicking and drop kicks, accurate kick ‘n chase, highly mobile pack with 4-5 “loosies” masquerading as tighties, with the dominant theme: PRESSURE. Put pressure on the other SH (or visiting NH) teams to NEVER make a mistake in their 22. It will be hard for any team, even NZ, to beat SA badly in the South with these tactics. But let this SH squad be SH–only a very few should travel with the NH group. The NH group should have a different focus and incorporate all the best Saffas up there: technical scrummagers, a real tight five (with 3-4 real backups), a running FH, a big SH, and a counterattacking FB. I think this would provide us with continuity, better EOY results, a bifurcated platform on which to build for World Cups, and better-rested Test elites.
SH XV:
Kirchner
Mapoe
Fourie
Grant
Habana
M. Steyn
F du Preez
Spies
Smith
Brussow
Matfield
Botha
Smit
Bismarck
Beast
NH XV:
F. Steyn
JPP
Brent Russell
J d V
Nokwe
Butch James
Januarie
Joe van Niekerk
Jean Deysel
Schalk Burger
Bekker
Roussouw
BJ Botha
Gary Botha
CJ van der Linde
November 29th, 2009 at 11:40 pm
The heirarchy would be Head Coach, with a Head NH Assistant and a Chief SH Assistant. SA players who go abroad to make some cash wouldn’t be lost forever and excommunicated. Rather, they would be in the mix. Depending on where the WC is, we would be ready for anything. We would always have a 8-10 player super-quality “bench” ready no matter what.
November 29th, 2009 at 11:44 pm
SH: Kick-chase, accuracy, fleet-of-foot, lineout domination, defend-to-attack, PRESSURE (on us and them), hard fields for Morne/FdP to exploit, Habana and Mapoe at speed, tried-and-tested formulae.
NH: Scrum domination by CJ/BJ, Bekker fine against fairy boys of the North, Joe = captain, attack-first, Steyn as siege gun, Butch and JdV choregraph the midfield, Russell and Januarie unpredictable, batter them all over the park.
November 29th, 2009 at 11:49 pm
@haribaldi: one season is not tried and tested ? and as the ABs have shown, they have found guys who can now catch a highball… but keep believing it, stick to your one game plan philosophy, hasnt worked in the NH and wont work next year… best you keep your fingers crossed…
November 29th, 2009 at 11:49 pm
@Shakes: It is good that FdP can play that way, but he needs to learn to vary play more.
Now its just predictable.
November 30th, 2009 at 1:16 am
From the NZ Herald by Chris Rattue about SA:
“Ireland carried the Northern Hemisphere flag at the weekend, and their victims, the world champion South Africans, are now officially wounded beasts after a very poor tour.
The Springboks have a static, limited, game plan which is difficult to beat when their players are on song.
There is a telling statistic from the first test against the Lions this year: the Springbok team made a total of 49 passes, whereas the Lions’ halfback Mike Phillips made 76 passes on his own.
The Springboks lead the rugby method which says those who kick the most, and take the fewest risks, win the most.
But their weak spots have been obvious, including when they were scoring a harder-than-expected series win over the Lions, and storming through the Tri-Nations.
They have virtually no Plan B if their Plan A, of letting the opposition make the mistakes and kicking goals, doesn’t work.
Coach Peter de Villiers is a token gesture, so they are largely self-coached by senior players who will not be harshly evaluating their own game or expanding their team’s repertoire.
Captain fantastic John Smit, or is that coach fantastic, is struggling to find his true position.
South African rugby concentration can wander and they have a different mindset from the All Blacks, who rarely drop their bundle in unexpected places.
A tour of defeats is a potential wake-up call, however. Self-rule can work superbly, but it means cracks will turn into chasms.
The question might be whether this type of regime, which always had a limited life expectancy, can hang on long enough to still be effective at the World Cup.
Then again, the tried and trusted way of winning the Webb Ellis Cup is the one at which South Africa excel, especially as they relish taking drop goals and can kick penalties from well inside their own half.”
Sums it up pretty well I reckon.
November 30th, 2009 at 1:35 am
As does this from Ireland’s Sunday Independent:
If rugby wants to end the scourge of teams like South Africa winning without the ball, changes are needed, says Brendan Fanning
‘At the present time there are people interested in rugby who wonder if the ethos will survive the game’s new expansion. The rules of the game have been altered more drastically than at any time before. Rugby could never be the same again.’
Gerald Davies used this quote in his delivery of the annual IRB lecture a couple of weeks ago, and he did so to make the point that rugby has always been a sport that shifted and changed shape and basically never sat still. The lines, he said, were from a book called The Report on Rugby by John Morgan and Geoffrey Nicholson. And it was published in 1959.
His point was that navel-gazing is not new in rugby, that despite all the flux the game would go on. And of course it will. But Davies took to the podium immediately after the audience had watched images of the Lions tour to South Africa last summer, and he could more usefully have drawn from his experiences on that trip to sound an alarm about the game’s current direction.
The first Test in that series illustrated in stark black and white how much the game has changed. Your memory of it will probably be coloured by how the Springboks established a commanding lead, followed by the Lions’ frantic comeback. You might have left King’s Park that day wondering had the South Africans become complacent in the second half and stopped playing. More accurately, they never started.
In the old days, when Gerald Davies was gliding over boggy ground and leaving tacklers on their backsides, coaches would have waved the ball at their players in the dressing room beforehand imploring: ‘It’s all about this today!’ Not anymore they’re not.
The Springboks beat the Lions that day without the ball. It wasn’t that the Lions were so skilled at retaining it, rather the Boks didn’t want it in the first place. In that game they had the ball for 12 minutes. That’s less time than any other team in a Tier 1 game in the World Cup two years ago. It’s less time than any team has had to cope with in the Six Nations for the last five seasons. And, apart from one game, it’s less time than any team has managed in the Tri Nations in the last five seasons. And that one game? Yes, it involved South Africa, though on that occasion they were being devoured by Australia 49-0.
Incredibly in that first Test, Lions scrumhalf Mike Phillips passed the ball 55 per cent more than the entire South African team. And kicking? Well they bogged away 71 per cent of their possession as against the Lions’ 31 per cent. And still they won.
It was under Jake White that they hit on the killer combo: a big kick-and-chase game; a mean defence; and a rock-solid setpiece — indeed the lineout was the sole beacon of creativity in their game. Argentina under Marcello Loffreda went down the same road but didn’t quite have the mechanics right. Their meeting in the semi-final of the World Cup was the most sterile Test match of the professional age. Of course the Boks kept faith with it to win the tournament and it has served them nicely ever since.
It’s important to understand that this trend started before the ELVs. And before the law protocol around the tackle. So while you may consider those developments to be evil incarnate, at least be accurate about why we are where we are. And where we are is here: a game which has passages where the ball is kicked back and forth, over the heads of a bunch of wildebeest who run from one end to the other in search of water. And as soon as the kicking stops and the bell goes to sup, they’re so shagged from the effort that they can’t get their tongues out.
We have arrived at this point because the extension of rugby being a game where first you stopped the other team from playing, became one where first you stopped the other team from playing in their own half. And their backyard, not yours, was the only place from where you would consider attacking. Coaches came to the conclusion that the relationship between risk and reward was too intimidating because they could lose the ball too easily at the tackle. Ian McGeechan maintains this started in the latter stages of the World Cup.
“When teams got to that stage they stopped playing rugby, and the reason they stopped was that referees stopped refereeing the breakdown,” he says. “So it just became a territorial game. I think the game moved on after that, and that the game the following season was a far better game. I remember Syd Millar, quite rightly, was critical of the closing stages of the World Cup because there was no rugby played, but it was because of the breakdown.
“I had a big bee in my bonnet at the time saying we should referee the breakdown first. Teams will not play in their own half. I remember Rod Macqueen (IRB Laws advisory group) saying that the ELVs were trying to make the breakdown a 50 per cent ball. Well, teams in possession in their own half will not play rugby if you’ve only a 50 per cent chance of keeping it.”
The introduction just before the Lions tour of the tackle protocol, where the poacher had all the rights at the breakdown if he was on his feet, has further discouraged players from opening up within sight of their own posts. The idea of facilitating the poacher is fine, but it is reliant on top-quality refereeing. And much of that refereeing has been horrendous.
Once the ELV process ended last season, that was that as far as any further law changes ahead of RWC 2011 in New Zealand. But the current state of affairs will not be allowed to continue. Changes will be made, and they will be done by making a ruling on an existing law.
We live in hope that poachers will be made to prove they are on their feet, for this is the biggest bone of contention. And the best way to do this — perhaps the only way — is to force them to actively step one foot over the tackled player on the ground. So if you want to pilfer the ball, you will have to have one foot either side of your victim.
Not only will this clear up the issue of whether or not the poacher is on his feet and within the law, it will provide the cleanout crew with a target they can hit and move. And everyone would be happy. It would increase the chances of retaining the ball at the tackle without closing the door to the contest altogether. Indeed it would crystallise the situation: if the poacher is on his feet and he isn’t coming away with the ball then it has to be because it’s not being released by the man on the ground. Penalty.
There are other areas that can be looked at — for example marking the ball outside your 22, or forcing players to move towards their own line when the ball is kicked by a teammate over their heads (it would give counter-attacking space to the receiver) — but part of the problem with the ELVs was that there was so much being changed it was hard to establish cause and effect.
So let’s do something with the breakdown, as we know for sure it is key to the current version of rugby where there is too high a price on adventure. Winning without the ball is not something we can afford.
November 30th, 2009 at 5:48 am
Ha ha ha Richie McCaw won player of the year. Dumb *****.
He is the greatest flout of all the rules in Rugby. God, watch the French game and ask youserlf how does that ball get turned over. He comes in form the side, he tackles the fetcher off the ball, etc…does not even get a yellow!
This is funny is so stupid .No wonder rugby will always be a backwater sport.
November 30th, 2009 at 6:07 am
@Heavens Game: What a poor excuse, your nation has big depth,so what happened in 2008 when they were dealt to by the All Blacks? I believe the first sign of weakness was in Brisbane when the Wallabies dealt to them, they barely won the next week against the All Blacks in Hamilton then they are patting themselves on the back with the Tri Nations went back to the Currie Cup where the All Blacks go back to the Air NZ Cup and end of year tour the ABs go undefeated for 3yrs or more but so called World Champions cannot even achieve this not even once. Just admit it your Boks do not have the winning mentality that the All Blacks live by, oh yeah they are waiting for the RWC tournament they realise its too hard for them to be winners every year like the All Blacks achieve on regular a basis.
Boy being a Bok supporter I would not be happy at all.
November 30th, 2009 at 6:13 am
Hi all,
First post for me so here it goes.
After watching the game on Saturday I think it’s pretty obvious that the Boks are tactically stale and one-dimensional. Every time we pushed the ball wide there was space in the outside channel. That’s how Burger got his try and that’s how we made three or four scoring opportunities in the first half. But did we persist with that and exploit it? No. Back to kicking away all our hard won possession. Ireland are by no means a great team, I’d say they are an adequate team and I don’t think the Boks should hide behind the too tired argument. We simply don’t have the nous to play a wide game when required and a kicking game when required.
November 30th, 2009 at 6:18 am
@KevinRack: What rubbish!! Richie is the man who plays real rugby, maybe the Refs is who you should blaming because if they reffed the breakdown properly then we would kick and chase game the Boks play boring…
November 30th, 2009 at 7:05 am
@marvinb:
Remember that the AB’s have the travel advantage over SA for all the Super 14 and Tri-Nations. That’s why they’re fresher at year-end.
November 30th, 2009 at 7:10 am
@marvinb:
And this makes it easier for them to win more consistently.
The Boks have to contend with socio-political and administrative challenges. It’s amazing, a real achievement that they still win as they do.
There are real threats to the Boks, which may lead to their extinction. I think it’s important to be aware of this.
November 30th, 2009 at 7:15 am
@sglazer:
lol
You are joking right?
@sglazer:
lol
No more please
November 30th, 2009 at 7:30 am
@sglazer:
I agree that the political environment in SA is a factor but traveling in the s14 and the 3N as a the reason why SA doesn’t perform in the UK. Harden up.
That is nonsensical. The time zones and distance to UK are far more favorable for SA than either Australia or NZ.
European teams are far better at the ten man game than the expansive style. To beat them you need to have to be able to play a variation as this article suggests. This tour has simply been a disaster for a team as talented as this SA squad. Far less talented Sa squads than this have had better records on the end of the year tour.
In 2005 NZ beat the lions 3-0 ,won the 3N and then travelled to Europe to secure a Grand slam. This was expected of the ABs by their fans. Until SA sets their sights as high and expect nothing less with no excuses, they will continue to struggle to be the dominant force in World Rugby that they deserve to be.
November 30th, 2009 at 7:37 am
@lapoftherugbygods:
here here,good post
November 30th, 2009 at 8:38 am
I believe we need to rest all 15 of our first choice Springboks until at least halfway through the Super 14 Competition!
These guy need a serious break from all rugby for at least 3 months after which they can slowly be reintroduced into their respective teams.
Even if this means us losing our first few games in the competition it would overall serve as a better cause to the long term success of the Springboks, which in my opinion is all important.
This would also expose some of the younger players giving them much needed experience at top level rugby.
November 30th, 2009 at 9:02 am
@lapoftherugbygods:
Well, then Mils Muliana must have it wrong too. Those were his words. NZ have a distinct advantage over SA in the Super 14 and Tri-Nations. Blinding oneself to this makes no sense. It’s delusional.
November 30th, 2009 at 9:09 am
It’s not helpful to the AB’s either. Their results are inflated and when it comes to competition when the playing fields are more level, namely the World Cup, they bomb out again and again.
November 30th, 2009 at 9:21 am
@sglazer: gotta agree… the travel factor was a serious problem for SA in 2008, when they travelled to the cape and lost 19-0 at home… NZ just had to fly over thats all… much easier…
November 30th, 2009 at 9:42 am
@poppa69: Again you are still on a SA web site ? It must be another Bok loss, sadly for us we have had a few recently which is only compounded by your presence on a SOUTH AFRICAN RUGBY WEB SITE …
Why arent you off on Silverfern enjoying a great AB victory over France ?? Sad sack.
November 30th, 2009 at 10:04 am
Hey. Gotta admit the Boks ended it badly this year, but hailing the All Blacks is a joke. None of the SH teams have any right to brag this year.
As for the Boks plan B… problem is, they’ve been using plan B way too much. Like I said elsewhere, plan A should always be the basics. Our team failed the basics, which was their strength earlier this year, with some flair added. Now, they tried to win the games with flair alone!
November 30th, 2009 at 10:43 am
@iceman: I believe this is a good idea, I think the All Blacks should do that for some key All Blacks and the Boks should do the same thing.
November 30th, 2009 at 10:54 am
@sglazer: What garbage, so the All Blacks have had a hundred years of winning rugby mentality and back in the old days went on long tours by ship but still got the great results,1905 invincibles, Grand Slam in the 70s now we have achieve this 3 times, World Cups are a tournament where their is more pressure on the All Blacks to perform because of their winning mentality and record they have compared to the World, the Boks do not have that pressure because they havent really been favourites like the All Blacks coming into a RWC tournament and in the end we choke, so I dont know what you mean inflated scores, 49-nil maybe the inflated score your talking about.
November 30th, 2009 at 10:56 am
@bananas: Dont be like that, we enjoy coming on your own South African web site we have enough (South Africans) living in our country now….. so lets give a bit back and all be one.
November 30th, 2009 at 11:01 am
@SodaJoe: One of the problems of this tour was that young THs playing in SA were not expose to test rugby, so no I disagree with your statement: “but we have at least 3 Tightheads (BJ, WP Nel, Buys)”
BJ is good, always has been, but WP and Buys remain untested and have barely played S14. So basically we are very short of quality THs playing in SA. CJ not much better than JS.
November 30th, 2009 at 11:03 am
@Bouts: Hello earth to Bouts All Blacks undefeated on NH tour the other SH teams have lost games and the next to Samoa the Boks come second so who is the joke the Boks are World Champions played five lost four.
November 30th, 2009 at 12:22 pm
Some emotional responses here. I think the big problem for the boks was that they went to sleep for 40 mins after scoring the try. Up till then I thought Morne had gotten the line going quite well. The coaching staff shoud’ve know from the start that the ‘kicking game’ may not be the right option. Kearney was magnificent for the Lions dealing with the high ball. An approach like the one in Sydney where we caught the Wallabies off gaurd could’ve been the better option. I think PDV will take this onboard and adjust. So far he’s proven to be the most open coach to change when his ideas don’t work – big plus in my point of view!
November 30th, 2009 at 2:04 pm
I believe if you put the Springbok team in the hands of the New Zealand coaching team, they would be unstoppable.
The difference between NZ and SA is that in NZ everyone and I mean EVERYONE has the big picture in mind and works towards making their team the best in the world. In South Africa, everyone has their own agenda. The provincial teams won’t rest their players because results count, screw the national team. Politics play a huge role, transformation is more important than the Boks being the best in world rugby.
SA has a wealth of talent, but it is not managed properly. I support the Boks all the way, but I applaud NZ for their commitment to rugby as a whole.
November 30th, 2009 at 7:11 pm
@marvinb: Well then let’s be advocates for level playing fields and have NZ and Australia spend the same amount of time on the road during the Super 14 and Tri-Nations, year-in-and-year out. We can agree on that I think.
November 30th, 2009 at 7:13 pm
@Bouts:
I really like what you say here Bouts. I agree wholeheartedly. Plan A is the basics with flair added, the strength of that foundation on top of which the flair has the base upon which to express itself. This is power!
November 30th, 2009 at 7:16 pm
@marvinb: I find this a really small-minded and demeaning response. It has no place in the rugby community.
November 30th, 2009 at 7:18 pm
@Nanashi: I agree wholeheartedly, although I feel SA has very good coaching talent too, PDV included just that PDV has been elevated prematurely and expediently for reasons other than rugby alone, which is costing him, the players, Springbok rugby and SA as a whole.
December 1st, 2009 at 12:22 pm
@iceman: no no no….this is exactly what the AB’s did before the last WC and look where it got them!!!!