Keo.co.za tour diary – Week 3
The uninspiring home of Guinness, respecting tradition and weather to make your teeth chatter.
Dublin threatens your emotional well-being. Every day began much the same, with depressingly low temperatures exacerbated by soul-destroying winds and rain that was never quite strong enough to drive you from the street, but often severe enough to sting any exposed skin. And the subzero weather on game day made winter in Bloemfontein seem like a lark on Clifton 4th. The locals tell me that in January people rarely go out at night. Not for the faint-hearted.
The worst thing about the Dublin weather is that it never lasts. Bad weather is succeeded by sunshine which lasts just long enough for you to consider changing your perception of the city’s climate. As soon as that decision’s made, it’s clouded over again, the wind’s picked up and rain is inevitably on the way. It’s little wonder the locals seek refuge in the more consistent climes of bars and pubs.
Like the walkways of London and Toulouse, the city’s streets are constantly congested, the bustle of the famous Grafton Street sure to claim you if you’re not paying attention. Rain or shine, performers and singers entertain passers-by with popular renditions of English and native Gaelic songs, and the traditional Irish music is prominent.
Dublin city centre is not a big place, which made Saffa spotting easier than usual. By Friday, you couldn’t go anywhere without seeing a green and gold jersey or hearing an Afrikaans phrase. Traipsing around town, you’re also likely to see a few Irish players going about there business, Tommy Bowe and Tomas O’Leary just a couple who were spotted.
South Africa has its fair share of adverts featuring famous sportsmen. You’ll all remember the “Schalk Burger Burger” ad for Steers, and will have seen the hilarious Bic shaving ads with the Beast. In Ireland, they don’t recruit the national stars unless it’s really important. ‘Get behind Ireland’s dairy farmers, I do,’ advises Paul O’Connell before chugging a glass of milk.
Peter de Villiers said he was sick and tired of all the physicality talk in the build up to the Ireland game. Nobody asked him if the Irish were physical afterward, but everyone asked the hosts about the Boks’ belligerent approach. No 8 Jamie Heaslip, who’ll give as good as he gets on the pitch, had this for an answer: ‘Well they’ll never be accused of being ladyboys, now will they?’
Dublin’s an old city with plenty of cultural sites to explore. Fans of writers James Joyce and William Butler Yeats may opt to pay homage at the respective museums and exhibits, while those at the other end of the culture scale will take a leisurely stroll out to the Guinness Storehouse. I wish I could say the latter visit was amazing, but you can only get so excited about brewery processes. One thing is for certain, however – Guinness tastes a whole lot better when you’re in Ireland.
Croke Park crammed in 75 000 people for Saturday’s game, and the majority of the crowd managed to respect tradition. Throughout most stadiums in Europe, you can hear a pin drop when a kicker – from the home or local side – lines up a shot at goal. It’s something South African fans will never get used to. On this tour alone, these moments have been marred by loutish cries of ‘Bokke!’ and ‘Miss, miss!’ At the Stade Velodrome in Marseille, the crowd sat in awed silence in order to appreciate the haka. When the All Blacks perform their traditional war dance in South Africa, it’s usually drowned out by cries of ‘Ole, ole, ole!’ I suppose you have to allow for freedom of speech, but those who come to the respective rugby grounds to appreciate these traditions are ultimately the ones who lose out.
By Jon Cardinelli, in Dublin
November 29th, 2009 at 3:49 pm
The O’Connell milk ad is an embarrasment o.k but I don’t care if he continues performing like yesterday…
Great game although the weather was a joke….
I hope we can front up when we head down under next season as ultimately we won’t be a genuine world force until we do….
However I do have to query the Saffer tactics. In 4 seasons I’ve seen Rob Kearney drop about 2 balls. Yet FDP and Morne Steyn refused to stop pumping balls into him and ultimately playing into our hands, quite literally….
WPOTY award was a disgrace. I mean how BOD and FDP were overlooked is beyond me…..
November 29th, 2009 at 3:57 pm
I’m so glad you didn’t enjoy Dublin which (hopefully) means you won’t be back. The inane drivvel you wrote about Ireland, Irish media, Irish rugby and specific Irish players got shoved in your face yesterday. Go home to the land of xenophobia and wallow in your precious cocoon. Thankfully most of your fellow-countrymen (and women) are a little less negative than you.
November 29th, 2009 at 4:07 pm
@RichardP: thank you richard.we will do just that,heading home to cape town for the world cup draw in sunny cape town.at least we dont have to worry about drunk danny boys on our streets contributing to our high crime rate although i would say ireland resembling jozie a bit with their cash in transist robberies nowadays or shopkeepers getting knifed to death.nice utopia you got going there.
November 29th, 2009 at 4:12 pm
all those making fun of the boks losing a midwek game tacklers would love to se this to bad he is not around
During their 1938 tour to South Africa, the British Lions played two matches against Rhodesia. The first, taking place on July 20 saw the British win 25 to 11, three days later the British won again, 45 to 11. Both matches were played in Salisbury and Bulawayo. In late July 1949, two matches were played against New Zealand. Rhodesia won the first 10 to 8, whilst the second game was a draw 3 all.
November 29th, 2009 at 4:12 pm
ja the mighty all blacks lost to zimababwe
November 29th, 2009 at 4:14 pm
@RichardP:
let’s face it…dublin is loserville central. exactly like edinburgh really.
nice place to visit, have a laugh, meet people who aren’t to serious about anything(they are way to unsuccessful in anything to be)…and then buggeroff home.
did anything of any significance EVER happen in Ireland before?
Oh yeah.
You Paddies won the Eurovision song contest 3 times in a row.
like I said.
Loserville central.
Oh, You have beaten the Boks 3 times in a row on home soil.
Not quite the 100 years of dominace that we have over Ireland on home soil is it?
and as for the xenophobia comment.
what sort of brain dead fckwit are you?
how long have the catholics and protestants been nuking each other now?
oh…there is a ceasefire you say?
Like i said, way to unsuccessful at anything to be taken seriously.
November 29th, 2009 at 4:18 pm
Lets just hope the Boks go get some rest and relaxation and the so called brains trust really think long and hard about different game plans going forward because the kick and chase approach aint going to win us the World Cup in 2011.
November 29th, 2009 at 4:22 pm
did anyone see what i just posted its gold people?
November 29th, 2009 at 4:25 pm
choose to ignore it if u want but to all those like tackles who make fun of the boks losing a midweek game i just game u weapon x
November 29th, 2009 at 4:38 pm
How pathetic are these ‘journos’.
The Boks lose and suddenly Dublin is an “uninspiring…depressingly….soul destroying….”
I suppoose its consistent with lifee after Toulouse when they were “fatigued”, and after Italy they were “refreshed”.
It would have been a tropical paradise if theyd won I suppose.
November 29th, 2009 at 4:38 pm
try and eat some black pudding your feel great and an ulster fry
cant wait to hear what tacklers sau bout abs losing to zimabwe
November 29th, 2009 at 4:44 pm
Some of the comments on here are “ininspiring… depressing… soul destroying.”
Dublin is all of those things at this time of year. All the Saffas I came across this week were in great form despite the awful weather. No need for everyone to get so upset.
November 29th, 2009 at 4:47 pm
@klippies101: he is here in the form of wankernathan
November 29th, 2009 at 4:47 pm
The South African team refused to line up to clap the Irish team off the field; after the irish team had done so for the South Africans. A typical display of arrogant rudeness from the SA team. O’Connell wasn’t impressed.
November 29th, 2009 at 5:01 pm
ireland is one of my fav places on earth doesnt matter if the boks win or lose
oh ja the all blacks lost to zimabwe once
November 29th, 2009 at 5:01 pm
r u sure valkyrie
November 29th, 2009 at 5:01 pm
sounds about as miserable as cape town in winter.
November 29th, 2009 at 5:02 pm
what do u mean drexel
November 29th, 2009 at 5:06 pm
dublin is considerd the party capitol of europe due to the fact it’s so cold and depressing that you only wanna drink yourself to a standstill.the stinking liffy river running through the city doesn’t help also.the irish,exporters of racism to the deep south of america,australia and new zealand are not that friendly as they want the world to believe and refer to foreigners as non-nationals.catholics hate protestants with a passion because they still can’t get over the beating they took at the hands of king william of orange and oliver cromwell and then they have the gall to mention south africa’s xenophobia issues
November 29th, 2009 at 5:13 pm
@Drexel: win a world cup first and we might start respecting you.just joking.at the end of the game all of the chaps congratulated one another,some even hugged or embraced,swopped jerseys and left the field afterwards,so don’t try to stir unnecessary **** mate.they might not have clapped but the respect between the players for one another were there for everybody to see unless irish idiots like you wants to see someting else.
November 29th, 2009 at 5:42 pm
belfast reminds me of durbs the old buildings in city centre
November 29th, 2009 at 5:52 pm
@Brigadier Van Zyl:
Thats funny mate if Dublin is loserville then they have a funny way of showing it, when was the las time you won there? 10 years I think. Ireland is one of the most succesful conutries in Europe considering are tiny population. What’s SA famous for, Racism and Murder. I think you win in the Loserville awards mate lol.
November 29th, 2009 at 6:09 pm
@jockstrap: what about your racism you commit against the irish traveller community which you hide away from the international community then i am not even talking about the catholoic/protestant divide. reading this kinda **** makes me happy that cromwell and king billy fukked up you losers.long live oliver cromwell and king billy!
November 29th, 2009 at 6:10 pm
In recent times Ireland has benefitted from a massive transfer of EU funds without which the Irish “miracle” would not have taken place. Using EU funds, Ireland was able to “buy” FDI from companies such as Microsoft.
November 29th, 2009 at 6:14 pm
@jockstrap: your economy is so screwed that i would not be bragging about it.maybe try getting out of the recession first before posting ****.
November 29th, 2009 at 6:16 pm
Have Irish bloggers read Noel Ignatief’s book about the Irish experience in the US called “How the Irish became white”? ANSWER: by actively subjugating African-Americans and also supporting the continuation of slavery.
November 29th, 2009 at 6:18 pm
@radiohead: that miracle has turned into a nightmare mate.these blokes don’t have a clue how to get out of the recession and with the head leprechaun cowen in charge they don’t have a hope in hell.back to munching on potatoes for them!
November 29th, 2009 at 6:19 pm
@radiohead:
And had to give away fishing rights in Irish waters worth billions of euro per year. Nobody mentions things like that. If you think money was given to Ireland as charity they you’re mistaken.
Actually Irish people have to go to South Africa and build houses for poor people as well as give charity to countries around the world.
November 29th, 2009 at 6:20 pm
@jockstrap:
You left out AIDS and the killing of White people. At next years world cup there’s going to be some crime.
November 29th, 2009 at 6:20 pm
Northern Ireland also benefitted from the example of south africa’s peaceful political settlement and not the other way around.
November 29th, 2009 at 6:24 pm
For a long time the Irish were considered the “blacks” of Europe because they were so poor. And if the Irish are going around the world handing out charity well, so should they, given that the EU did the same for them. And, what about HIV/AIDS? It’s simply a disease for which there is no known cure.
November 29th, 2009 at 6:26 pm
the irish were the biggest exporters of racism.in countries that had or are still having a racist problem,countries like the us and australia, they played a massive role in stoking the fires of hatred and racism.they also played a leading role in organisations like the ku klux klan.
November 29th, 2009 at 6:28 pm
Fishing rights? Why did the Irish not exploit these resources themselves, ala South Africa iro its minerals and precious metals sector?
November 29th, 2009 at 6:28 pm
What the hell happened to the rugby debate on this site?
November 29th, 2009 at 6:29 pm
@phalanx: you must be very happy that you not part of that i guess.thierry henry actually did you a favour then?
November 29th, 2009 at 6:32 pm
we are the billy boys,we are the the billy boys…*** you celtic.just love that great gers anthem!
November 29th, 2009 at 6:32 pm
Killing white people? Granted, some or even most farm murders are probably politically motivated but all South Africans experience crime.
November 29th, 2009 at 6:52 pm
I’m Irish and quite like South Africans……
Am I still allowed here….?….
Bet my daddy’s bigger than all yours though……
November 29th, 2009 at 6:57 pm
my second favourite gers anthem is… ‘*** off home the famine is over’.
November 29th, 2009 at 7:04 pm
my beloved chelsea are murdering the gunners!where are you ,you gooner fans?
November 29th, 2009 at 7:11 pm
The comments on here are ridiculous- Ireland is a beautiful country with some of the most fantastice people I´ve ever met, and South Africa is the same – each place have their faults but to have an argument like is showing ignorance from both sides… Anyone who knows Ireland or South Africa properly will tell you that both countries are great and a lot of natural wonders…
November 29th, 2009 at 7:19 pm
OMG – The comments following this article are vile. Not much about rugby here.
November 29th, 2009 at 7:28 pm
Very well done to Ireland!! Well deserved win on the day and reaping the rewards for a well balanced side that has been working hard for some years now. Enjoy it while it lasts, time at the top is limited.(The top in theory for the year). You will have to back it up away from home against the SH. Think it’s about time that the NH play grand slams as a matter of course. SA, Aus and NZ. Will truly prove ability. Should be easier (in theory of course) because the weather will always be better for NH. SH sides have to play up to four sides in (normally foul) weather.
November 29th, 2009 at 7:37 pm
The comments on this thread are truly embarrassing. It’s a game, people, and what I’ve always liked about rugby is that, no matter how hard the game is on the field, afterwards everyone are friends again. Well done, Ireland. Boks, come back, have a rest and then look at the videos. The world has worked us out, and we have to stop the pointless kicking. It’s not going to win us games again.
November 29th, 2009 at 7:44 pm
@upandunder: Thats a good idea.
I think the only NH side to have attempted a Grandslam was England pre 2003 WC. But I stand to be corrected, I don’t think they played the Boks on the same tour that they beat Aus, NZ. Maybe this “great” Ireland side could attempt this next year. A tour startng in Aus – play Brumbies midweek, then play Australia at Suncorp. Across to NZ and play Crusaders midweek, then AB’s at Dunedin. They can pop in to SA on the way back an play the Springboks at Loftus. If they’re really good they could play the Bulls midweek to acclimatise.
Imagine that – isnt that an equivalent to a Bok/AB/Aus Grandslam tour up North.
November 29th, 2009 at 7:45 pm
@Heavens Game: Well said, some times its embarrassing to be a biltong eater!
My Brother-in law is Irish, and we had a great time watching the game. Cost me a fortune in beer…his house for the Baa baas….revenge will be sweet. I wont drink water all week so I build up a thirst! Still cant get the bugger to embrace rare steak and biltong…
November 29th, 2009 at 7:48 pm
@Heavens Game: Some time a Lions vs Trinations team was touted as a sort of north south series. Imagine how good that would be…also imagine the hate mail here about who should be in what position..
November 29th, 2009 at 7:51 pm
@muffy: Yeah the Baabaas will be good, but the Bok guys are buggered at the moment. Maybe playing with some of their adversaries will spur them on to a 4th win over the ABs.
I might be lucky enough to be there. I was at the Baabaas vs Aus game. Disappointed that they lost – but Francois Steyn was flyhalf that day and seemed to be under instruction from Jake White – the coach to drop kick everything.
I dont think JW or Frans Steyn will coach/play for the Baabaas again after that debacle.
The Baabaas side that day was probably the best side I have seen on paper. The young Aus team played out of their skins though.
November 29th, 2009 at 7:55 pm
Ryan Vrede – you often are criticized for the quality of your prose.
Often unfairly.
But your comments on one of the world’s classic cities, and certainly one renowned throughout the civilized world as one that is as fun as it gets from party to discourse is embarrassing.
The comments reflect more about you than Dublin, or Ireland.
Uncouth ill-mannered dofness.
It’s no wonder the gutter trash keep coming back. You set the tone.
November 29th, 2009 at 7:56 pm
@SodaJoe: Sorry Ryan. JC – who should know better. Pathetic.
November 29th, 2009 at 7:57 pm
Lions vs Trinations would be good.
A coach voting system could be used. Each Nations Coach could select 3 players for a positons (from all of the teams).
Players with most votes would have the position.
The coach who wins the Tri-nations would cosch the team for that year.
That should get away from the bitching about positions
November 29th, 2009 at 8:06 pm
Wouldnt rate the NH chances much! Toughest choice…McCaw Brussow Pocock and Smith…now there is a debate that will rage! I thought Pocock was top flanker on show this weekend. But the other guys can be the best on any other day too. SH has the top 4 flankers in the world
re the BBs Aus game, When I saw that first drop goal attempt I nearly dropped my beer, where in the history of Baa baas do you attempt a drop goal absolute disgrace to the tradition of BBs and rugby.
November 29th, 2009 at 8:07 pm
@ Valkyrie and others..
Why all this hate folks?As a irish person i have to say that saffer rugby fans are the best ones ive ever been out drinking with.. good fun, can hold their drink and have top accents to boot!
of course dublin is miserable in late november..its the middle of winter..what did you expect!!nearly all nh countries are cold and **** late nov!! and i was in cape town in sh winter before.. it wasnt much better!
thought it was a great win yesterday and im pleased with irelands emergence as a force.. i do think SA deserve IRB team of the year with our coach getting coach of the year.. pretty fair if you ask me..
the only robbery was that bod or FDP didnt get player of the year..
November 29th, 2009 at 8:10 pm
In Cape town you have to be there last week…that’s when the weather is great:)
November 29th, 2009 at 8:10 pm
p.s Valkyrie
The KKK were not formed by irish people. they hated the irish because they loathed catholics.. get your history right before making absurd false history facts
November 29th, 2009 at 8:12 pm
Muffy
Sounds good!! My uncle lives there..emigrated there in the 60’s. he loves it. i should really take him up on his offer to visit there in january!
November 29th, 2009 at 8:16 pm
@muffy: Would be an interesting thought experiment, all 3 coaches getting together and voting for those players – Henry = McCaw, PdV = Brossouw, Deans = Pocock, bt who would each of these coaches pick as their 2nd best player, I suspect Deans and PdV would pick McCaw. This would make him the majority pick. Anyway nice to speculate on something fans would want – A proper “World Series” Event, instead of the S15 **** coming to everyone next year
November 29th, 2009 at 8:18 pm
@Kennedy111: kenedy good day mate
best to ignore some mate as they only here with tripple agenda’s never mind double
they racist delux that firstly think they know everything and 2ndly try to make others out to be racist whilst they the ones that always bring the race subject onto a rugby site
ur honesty is refreshing and good to see a good sportsman on here
cheers mate congrats on ur team they played good footy and showed heart
November 29th, 2009 at 8:19 pm
@Kennedy111: Spot on, my Irish brother in Rugby. Don’t like BOD and PoC as much as you probably dislike Schalk and Bakkies, though.
November 29th, 2009 at 8:29 pm
@Kennedy111: Bud. Valkyrie is pure and utter racist gutter trash. No reflection on you, your rugby team or your country(men). Or normal South Africans. Who in the main actually love Ireland & the Irish.
He is a troll in the cyber and literal sense.
Ignore him.
Well done to your team yesterday.
November 29th, 2009 at 8:29 pm
Valkyrie is blindly ignorant
November 29th, 2009 at 8:34 pm
@ Heavens game and Shark lover
Cheers lads..good posts..its always a select few that can irk all on these blogs..
re bakkies and burger.. i actually really like them.. i wish they were irish : ) superb rugby players who know how to get in your face.. my kind of rugby players!I think every irish rugby fan feels the same!
I was at croke park yesterday(freezing my nuts off)and sitting in front of us were some saffer fans with a home made banner stating “If you want a good facial massage just ask Schalk!”
haha! i thought it was hilarious and it was met with good spirt by all.
im still in shock tho with the player of the year award.. Mccaw is an awesome player but FDP and BOD were the stand out choices.. its also a crime that Brussow wasn’t even nonimated!!
November 29th, 2009 at 8:34 pm
@Heavens Game: Nice idea.
15. F. Steyn
14. Sivivatu
13. Conrad Smith
12. Barnes
11. Habana
10. Carter
9. FdP
8. Spies
7. Brussow (very hard – McCaw & Pocock are excellent – but I am South African)
6. Juan Smith
5. Matfield
4. Bakkies
3. Benn
2. Smit (c)
1. Ben
November 29th, 2009 at 8:36 pm
Cheers sodajoe…
November 29th, 2009 at 8:37 pm
JC’s arrticle reminds me of the WWF… load of hot air for the ignorant. Ireland won (well done Ireland)… but we will be back … Bokke fans – when we see what it means to the teams that beat us we should take pride in the fact that we are seen as hard to beat and refine our skills to get back to doing what we historically do best – WIN !!
November 29th, 2009 at 8:41 pm
@SodaJoe: The Bench
Beast
Biz
McCaw
1 x lock – no one exceptional really.
Giteau
Mils
Genia
November 29th, 2009 at 8:46 pm
@SodaJoe: Cool team, but in the tradition of rugby debate I would differ on Brussouw (McCaw – Captain), Smith (Elsom), Smit (Bismarck) but all hard choices.
I would put Smit on the Bench – he would be a great reserve and he adds more to a team than play on field. Sometimes I wish the Springboks didnt have to choose between Bismarck and Smit. But in a Bok situation it seems best to have Smit at hooker with Bismarck on the bench (Although Bismarck is a massive player, Smit has X factor leadership – glue that holds the Boks together on field.)
He is in the mould of past great captains like De Villiers, Du Plessis, Pienaar, Teichmann who were not the stars of their respective sides.
November 29th, 2009 at 8:52 pm
@Kennedy111: The shock of IRB player of the year award is nothing compared to when Shane Williams recieved the award.
I think overall the awards were fair. Kidney has made a huge difference with the Irish team (remember they did struggle against Georgia and did not reach the knockout of the World Cup). From that debacle to 6 Nations champs is very good.
He also seems to have a good team around him – the best managers always pick good people to support them.
November 29th, 2009 at 8:52 pm
@Heavens Game: Elsom is a very close debate, I agree.
I think Biz has been poor this year, but better than anyone from NZ or Australia. Smit better.
I think Brussow outplayed Richie in Tri-Nations.
November 29th, 2009 at 8:52 pm
@SodaJoe: Now you are asking for a fight:) Not a bad team but….
No Bakkies….rather play with 14 men. No other 4 stands out at the moment.
Wycliff Palu in 8 on current form.
we will leave the 7 discussion alone, as that is geographically biased for everyone.
Hooker I would have Andrew Hore, very underrated IMO and an excellent ball thief
6 is also up for discussion…
November 29th, 2009 at 8:56 pm
@SodaJoe:
No man, u not serious.
McCaw offers much more than Brussouw. Not even worth a debate.
He should also be the captain.
JS will not make the Wallabie or Kiwi team on merit as a hooker.
On his only appearance as hooker this season the Irishman Flannery outshoned him in all aspects of play.
Rocky Elsom is also much better than Juan Smit who is not any more the player he used to be.
Your team should be called the Soda Joe Barbarians
November 29th, 2009 at 8:56 pm
@muffy: Muffdiver. LOL. Thought it might start a debate!
Spies outplayed all 8’s in both S14 & 3N, behind backpedaling packs, still potentially the most dangerous 8 in the game alongside Parisse.
7 is open debate – I agree.
Hore was diabolical in 3N – pure rubbish – how Henry thinks he is better than De Melmanche is beyond me.
November 29th, 2009 at 8:58 pm
@Robzim: Robbie.
Aus & NZ hookers very poor, would not make the Bok side.
The Diamond outplayed Richie head to head. S14 & 3N.
Elsom vs Juan – I agree – Rocky can have it. I like him.
November 29th, 2009 at 9:05 pm
@Robzim: @SodaJoe: At least this forum has turned in to a rugger debate. The trash that was spouted earlier was disgusting
November 29th, 2009 at 9:06 pm
@SodaJoe:
Joe, u must remember that Richie came back from injury and only hit form later in the season.
Yesterday against the French he was back to his brilliant best – Brussow was never at that level – he only fetches, while Ricky does a lot of other things as well.
Anyway, I am glad the international season is over – it was getting bad for us.
Looking forward to the Super 14. (Habana, Fourie , Stormers etc….)
November 29th, 2009 at 9:06 pm
@SodaJoe: “Rocky can have it. I like him.”
LOL Very magnanimous of you
Am I the only one that rates Hore…I always get the raised eybrow with that… Also Ashley Cooper in 15…not a goal kicker, but always there sorting out whatever mess the Aussies have got themselves into.
The problem I have with Spies is exactly as you said “still potentially the most dangerous 8 in the game” when he reaches his potential, then he can play. I would rather put…wait for it .. Juan Smith at 8 and Rocky at 6 or visa versa.
November 29th, 2009 at 9:08 pm
@SodaJoe: Oh well, Smit could start – good to have 2 great Captains on the field at the same time, but Bismarck would be an impressive impact player.
I wonder who Deans or Henry would pick if they had the choice? Bismarck or Smit
November 29th, 2009 at 9:09 pm
@Robzim: You have a point. Richie was incredible linking yesterday, brilliant.
Brussow is not bad at link play though. But he is pretty single-minded on the pill I agree.
But watching Daniel laugh and smile as he tore France to shreds was terrific.
I also think the Aussie team showed great team spirit with their moustaches, it’s small things that build a team.
Gits is a brilliant 12 imo. Deans has some thinking, but swapping Barnes & Giteau around might well work.
November 29th, 2009 at 9:11 pm
@Robzim: Its Super 15 now – I think most Saffers will be pleasantly disgusted at the format of this competition – very obviously to the benefit of Aus who now will have a domestic comp that counts.
Prepare for the demise of the Currie Cup
November 29th, 2009 at 9:11 pm
@muffy: I like A-C too, but Steyn is better. And can kick a rugby ball 60m, off the ground.
November 29th, 2009 at 9:11 pm
@Heavens Game: Henry would pick Smit, Deans would pick Biz.
November 29th, 2009 at 9:12 pm
@muffy: Pierre Spies behind a dominant pack will be unstoppable.
November 29th, 2009 at 9:14 pm
@SodaJoe: So, if all coaches of Tri-nations have an equal say, who would PdV pick?
Biz? That would mean he would be first choice.
November 29th, 2009 at 9:16 pm
@SodaJoe:
Yip, I am a huge fan of Giteau but Daniel C proved his credentials yesterday. He was just amazing.
We need to come up with a few new ideas. The kick and chase will not be enough to win another wc. Rob Kearny showed yesterday how to deal with that. The other teams would have taken notice.
The Irish hooker Flannery and Conrad Smith of NZ were the two other players who impressed me a lot yesterday.
November 29th, 2009 at 9:16 pm
@Heavens Game: I hope not. Didn’t yesterday and our scrum was great. But he has been in 2 minds since RWC, so I don’t have too much faith.
November 29th, 2009 at 9:19 pm
@Robzim: Flannery was in heaps of trouble before we took BJ off.
Smith is the most underrated player in NZ (maybe that last name is a curse – Juan Smith is perhaps equally underrated).
Kearney – exactly – fearless and very hard to stop at pace.
My sense is by 2011 we are going to see backline players get much much bigger.
Sexton is also a very large lad, great game too. Fkr.
November 29th, 2009 at 9:21 pm
@muffy: Again, I wonder who Henry or Deans would pick at 8 if they had a choice of all Tri Nations players. I think they would both jump at including Spies.
Spies, Elsom, McCaw – that is an awesome backrow.
What would a Lions backrow be? Wait, we know – Croft, Ginger and Heaslip.
Which would you rather have?
November 29th, 2009 at 9:23 pm
@SodaJoe: Its a difficult choice, similar to Skinstad/Teichmann.
Maybe a lesson can be learned from where that choice took the Springboks.
November 29th, 2009 at 9:24 pm
@Heavens Game: That’s a helluva back row. Honestly.
Croft, Ferris, Ryan Jones for me. Heaslip off the bench. very big very fast. Perhaps weak against Richie on the ground.
November 29th, 2009 at 9:24 pm
Hi chaps.
Rumours doing the rounds that Bissy may be a Lion soon….watch this space.
Also Lions apparently gonna surprise with some saffa abroad signings as well as a couple of overseas players…..
I reckon Muir was hard at it while in Europe…..
Soda….how cool was it seeing a Bok scrum going forward again?
Pity we lost the plot 2 nd half….imagine Spies off the back of that dominant scrum…
November 29th, 2009 at 9:25 pm
Biz to play, Macaw to captain..probably the best trade off.
Frans has more talent too, but hot and cold, rather the security of A-C, never does anything wrong. (bet he was the teachers pet while Frans was in detention at school)
Amazing that there is no mention of George smith yet…has he past it? Not if the wales game was anything to go by.
Lock? we will have to clone Vic and have 2 of them
November 29th, 2009 at 9:29 pm
@grant10: Howzit boet. You calming down now?
Our scrum looked great. Thought BJ was fine all round too, although I know Bushy feels otherwise.
Spies behind a powerful pack would be devastating.
Lions will have to do a lot of work, in almost every position.
Lets wait & see.
November 29th, 2009 at 9:34 pm
@grant10: I dont think Bismarck would leave the Sharks.
It would be surprising if Muitr managed to entice guys away from GP or Top 14 teams.
Why?
1. Money (I don’t think the Lions could afford it)
2. Crowds (Take a look at Rugbydump for videos of the Top 14). The French put the Super 14 to shame and with the lack of crowds in the Currie Cup they are beginning to put that to shame too.
Also you will find a lot of ex-Lions playing in the GP – just look at Saracens. Why in their right minds would they move back to the Lions – what has changed? **** Muir as coach? I dont think the likes of Ernst Joubert or Schalk Britz would move back for Muir.
Britz has been rated the best buy of any Premiership club by Will Greenwood on Sky.
Brad Barrit would not move back – he is in the England high performance squad.
Sowerby wouldn’t.
I ahev seen a player called Sam Gerber playing very well in the Top 14 – he wont move back.
November 29th, 2009 at 9:35 pm
@SodaJoe: I am cool….Bushy must have been watching some other match in a paralell universe…..all i know is for 50 minutes, without Bakkies, i saw a bok scrum in total command….and i was thrilled.
Why PDV went an d undermined our 1 area of domination only he knows…..
I tell you Soda, in hindsight with that go forward scrum ball, i would of played Kanko…..with his pace he could of picked and flew….as opposed top pick and drive….if you get my drift…..
Smit must stay at 2 ….no question.
CJ at 1 also appeared strong….the benefit of this tour for me is that we have taken steps to fix up a huge part of our weakness…..
I am starting to come round to skops sentiment on the 9 and 10 axis being a problem area….with that platform they should of done better yesterday.
November 29th, 2009 at 9:38 pm
@Heavens Game: dont know detail….suggest you pop in at the we talk rugby site….those okes are in the know….no bullshit there….and always have inside info.
Bissy, Burden and Smitty at 2 in the tank???
November 29th, 2009 at 9:39 pm
@muffy: Bakkies + Matfield = Lock Combination. Both together are greater than the sum of their parts. Same as Jones + Brooke and Eales + McCall
November 29th, 2009 at 9:40 pm
@ Heavens game
It was an appalling decision to award shane williams player of the year last time around.. this years decison also discredits the whole meaning/accuracy of the award..
Yeah kidney has done very well.. especially in getting gert smal as our forwards coach : )
I read alot of these blog comments with interest. i think SA are in great shape for 2011. Your defense is world class(just look at yesterday) and i thought you guys were awesome in the tri nations and in the first/second lions tests. i think players like spies, brussow and M steyn have alot more to offer(which worries me as an opposition fan!)
also i don’t care what anyone says but SA were tired yesterday.. after the S14, lions tests, tri nations, currie cup and other autumn international games..its bound to take its toll.. they are only human after all..
November 29th, 2009 at 9:42 pm
@grant10: Bud, having differences of opinion is healthy, out and out slanging matches online was not cool. But heat of the moment stuff.
We have to keep a dominant scrum. CJ wa great for the lttle time he was on at 1 (I always thought he was better at 1).
I would have moved Brussow to 8 (where he often packs for Cheaters) and Burger to 6 and Desyel vs Potgieter (who truthfully has looked awfully average this tour).
I have no issues with 9 & 10, they need to watch video and see that they lack variation, they have the talent to change gameplan, and Smit is not that dof – he needs to change calls too. We have a terrific backline. (although JPP seems to go to sleep sometimes).
November 29th, 2009 at 9:48 pm
Why not have a 6,7,8 combo of Brussow,McCaw and Spies. Best of both worlds. Would give McCaw a bit more room to run with the ball.
Backs:
FDP
Carter
Sivi
Nono (Had a great game against France)
Fourie
Habana
Mils
November 29th, 2009 at 9:50 pm
@SodaJoe: Ja….Bushy got up my nose…couldnt believe that anyone could be critical of BJ after virtually single handed ….without Bakkies….turning around the fortunes of a Bok scrum…..the 20 min against Italy was proof….then the 50 yesterday just unreal….for anyone to slag off Bj was…in my opinion….just crazy…..and ja….it pissed me off badly.
PDV really must up his hame when it comes to substitutions….BJ was actually an attacking edge for Boks…after he left it was nothing more than parity.
MS and FDP are talented….but need to lift it…..i know fatigue a factor…..
2010 gonna be a very interesing year….PDV on rugby 365 says he wont let this team become an england post 2003 and that new blood required…winds of change.
November 29th, 2009 at 9:50 pm
@Kennedy111: Yes, they were tired but Ireland deserved to win. As a Springbok fan I am just grateful for the performances of the team this year. They have won in the games that really mattered – a clean sweep against the AB’s and they won the BI Lions series.
Although it would have been good to win against IRelnd, sometimes a loss puts things in perspective and valuable lessons can be learned. It seems the Bok mgt do learn from their mistakes, from the subs against the BI Lions to the front row, to the overseas player issue. Hopefully these guys all get time for rest now.
Ireland, however were good value. It seems that Kidney is a really good coach and man. He has a good support team – Smal and others and the players respect him. Wasnt he coach of Munster?
November 29th, 2009 at 9:57 pm
@CenturionShark (aka LondonShark): Not balanced.
Fetcher/openside = McCaw, Blindside = Elsom.
Sometimes Aus play two fetchers, with hybrid roles, and SA (Before Brussouw) always used to play two blindsides with hybrid roles.
Not the same as two excellent specialists – my opinion, though
November 29th, 2009 at 10:04 pm
@ Heavens game
Agree with you 100%. A loss can sometimes forcefully remove the constant one dimensional game plan of a team that has won alot of games. maybe SA will inject more back play next time rather than the kick and chase…
I thought we deserved to win yesterday too.. and if we are to believe that we are a world class side than we need to beat world class teams like SA and the AB’s on a regular basis(which includes beating the AB’s even once as we have not done so yet in our history – shocking fact)
Yeah kidney was coach of munster.. was extremely succesful.. winning the european cup twice, getting to 4 finals and reaching the knockout stages of the competition every year since 1999.
Are you guys happy with PDV?My south african cousins seem indifferent to him when i asked them…
November 29th, 2009 at 10:15 pm
@Kennedy111: The PdV question has loads of emotional baggage and has been the focus of much debate. You mat start a sh*testorm here!!
My personal opinion is that he has done a good job this year. He is a good coach and seems to learn from mistakes.
His experience at top level coaching is minimal compared to Henry, McGeechan, even Gatland. For a second year of coaching a top tier team he has done pretty well. He was coach of the SA U21’s before this job but has not coached a Top tier Currie CUp or Super 14 team like Robbie Deans.
He seem to be unfairly judged on his public comments because English is not his 1st language, but I would blame that on SARU management. Now those are a bunch of snakes.
In SA the coach and captain take inordinate amount of flak but the Suits of SARU seem to get away with all their bad decisions. eg. Super 15 next year.
November 29th, 2009 at 10:51 pm
Fair enough Heavens Game.. il quickly retreat before i start an overworked debate : )
I think he has been a great coach. You guys broke my heart during the lions test series..and looking at it at a micro level he was brazen enough to bring on M Steyn in the second test, who (as we all know too well!)went on to knock over the series wining penalty.
Good chatting to you guys
November 29th, 2009 at 11:00 pm
As much as I like FDP, him and Steyn looked like a right old pair of one trick ponies yesterday.
I watched the Oz v Wales game and I don’t think they kicked half the amount of up-and-unders we do. A bit of creativity at flyhalf goes a long way….
November 29th, 2009 at 11:34 pm
@Valkyrie:
Im wondering. Is this behaviour regarded as normal when youre just out of your teens ?
When I was that age, we call those types ‘try-hards’. The modern vernacular ‘wannabe’ skirts around the same territory but doesnt quite hit the nail on the head as well as Try-Hard.
November 29th, 2009 at 11:40 pm
@SodaJoe:
Well said that man.
Dublin ?!
Ive been there a number of times but canne’er remember the place.
What JC could have taken the opportunity was to visit the Dublin Writers museum and not only absorb the richly layered history of Irish culture but also to PICK UP A FEW TIPS !!!
I supposed he dissed Edinburgh when the Boks lost there a few years back too…..
Not everywhere can be as exciting as Hamilton and Bloemfontein y’know !
November 30th, 2009 at 12:24 am
@Heavens Game:
Good points, depends on the opposition though.
The Boks missed Juan Smith big time! He gave us that balance. Not to mention Spies.
November 30th, 2009 at 12:57 am
@CenturionShark (aka LondonShark):
I agree. Boks missed Juan more than anyone. I always was bemused how much Bok fans went on about Burger being the Messiah (when he’s not, he’s just a naughty boy !) but I always thought he was more brawn, less brain. Whereas Juan Smith ia the real deal. Smart, physical, makes right decisions.
He’ll be back. But some of those key Bok fixtures certainly are starting to creak and groan…
November 30th, 2009 at 4:46 am
“Traipsing around town, you’re also likely to see a few Irish players going about there business…”
There should be their.
November 30th, 2009 at 5:02 am
This article is a joke surely… as an irish man i can’t even dis SA properly in return while using this medium… after all a third of your population are illiterate. No wonder they made a balls of their line out calls lol!
November 30th, 2009 at 6:12 am
I have a question for those that my deem themselves to be objective.
Given the end of year your results for the Spring Boks, which regardless of how you may want to look at it are just not good enough. A full strength tri nations winning Bok side lost to France and Ireland. No one would have thought that feasible given all that’s gone on this year.
Now taking into account EOYT results and last years 3N results are SA really the best team in the world candidates or more Tournament Winners? I don’t contest the World Champions title based on having the WC, but Wales are the WCs of 7s and no one can say they are the best side in the World.
For Bok fans, how do you reconcile the losses with the world titles?
December 1st, 2009 at 3:30 pm
Nice article JC, if a bit melodramatic about the weather. Dubs is actually quite mild.
I will agree with you on the point of there should be silence when there is a kick happening, BUT I will not agree on the point of the Haka. It should be sung over, drowned out and scorned by opposition crowds.
Why should we sit in respectful silence for an opposition team that show no respect for our team? Nooit china