ABs sitting pretty
30 Nov 2009
The All Blacks have increased their lead at the top of the IRB world rankings.
Richie McCaw’s men will finish the year as the world’s best team following their emphatic 39-12 win against France and the Boks’ 15-10 loss to Ireland.
Ireland jump France into fourth spot as the highest placed European nation. England and Argentina both rise one spot with Wales falling two places after their disappointing 33-12 loss to the Wallabies.
Lower down the rankings, Italy jump Samoa into 11th spot with their 24-11 win against the Pacific Islanders.
IRB world rankings (top 10)
1(1) New Zealand 91.68
2(2) South Africa 88.59
3(3) Australia 85.55
4(5) Ireland 84.58
5(4) France 82.40
6(7) England 80.72
7(8) Argentina 80.55
8(6) Wales 79.89
9(9) Scotland 76.59
10(10) Fiji 75.91
126 Comments
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30 Nov 2009, 15:15 pm
Indisputably number
ONE !
30 Nov 2009, 15:27 pm
Indisputable – any objections ?
30 Nov 2009, 15:33 pm
Well done All Blacks. That was a beautiful game to watch. Corey Jane was brilliant. Conrad Smith just magic, and Carter showed why he is pure class. All round brilliant performance.
@WakaNathan: Well done on predicting that Richie will win IRB player of the year. As for your question on another thread on Friday. I love AC Milan, but I’m a Crusaders supporter first. Red and Blacks.
30 Nov 2009, 15:34 pm
Fair enough! but we did beat the “Indisputable” number ones 3 nil!
30 Nov 2009, 15:35 pm
@rossoneri:
Well of course, there is only ONE ‘rossoneri’.
Cheers. Its been noted you are a very fair man. You’ll need a thick skin to survive around there here parts.
30 Nov 2009, 15:36 pm
When will we ever be the best again.
30 Nov 2009, 15:41 pm
@WakaNathan: Not a man. A woman, and I know all about having a thick skin. This is my fourth nick.
30 Nov 2009, 15:52 pm
@Sonito: Bizarre Rankings system where you beat a side 3 times in a row but they go above you thanks to a money making match (Extra Bledisloe Match)
30 Nov 2009, 15:54 pm
@rossoneri: Well actually if you had thick skin you’d still be on your first nick.
30 Nov 2009, 15:55 pm
@Oxy moron:
too true.
punto
30 Nov 2009, 15:57 pm
@Oxy moron: Not if you are banned 5 times Dude. You can’t use it anymore. First time was a yellow card, all the the other times was straight red cards.
30 Nov 2009, 15:58 pm
On current form I think the rankings are fair enough. None of the NH team can claim to be in the top 3 until they can actually beat the SH teams regularly at home.
30 Nov 2009, 15:58 pm
@rossoneri:
How do you get banned?
30 Nov 2009, 16:08 pm
@rossoneri: ha ha, fair enough. well done.
30 Nov 2009, 16:16 pm
@Sonito: by singing the anthem badly, ras dumisane now has a lifetime ban from keo.
the only other way to get banned on here is to agree with the tackler.
30 Nov 2009, 16:23 pm
Fair enough.
Middle of the year, we were the best – no doubt. AB’s have however stepped up and the Boks stepped back. They deserve to be no 1.
Well done.
30 Nov 2009, 16:25 pm
@Sonito: Getting banned was easy when the RT crowd still thought they dictated to the Moderator in deciding who stays and who goes. Many people were banned for rubbish. Ask Dawn, and Skop. But that was during the “wars”. The blog is a very peaceful place these days. It’s nice to see people stating their views freely and that there is a little more tolerance. Gone are the days when my personal information was investigated by bloggers. It’s good to be back.
30 Nov 2009, 16:46 pm
@rossoneri:
Hectic.
30 Nov 2009, 16:55 pm
@Sonito: “None of the NH team can claim to be in the top 3 until they can actually beat the SH teams regularly at home.”
The only SH team that actually beats the NH teams regularly away from home is New Zealand.
I don’t have a major problem with the rankings though. Ireland have proven they’re the best team in the NH on current form.
You could make an argument that they deserve to be ahead of Australia. Ireland are unbeaten all year (undefeated in 11 games) and won the 6N. Australia got pretty much stuffed in the 3N, with the exception of one game and have lost to Scotland.
But the Irish would have been ahead of Australia if they had beaten them instead of drawing with them at home so there can’t be too many complaints.
30 Nov 2009, 16:55 pm
@Sonito: Yeah it was. It’s nice to see the guys have a go at eachother without it getting as low down filthy as it use to get.
30 Nov 2009, 17:13 pm
@Paddylock:
Not really. The SH teams only lost 1 game last year in the NH tests and lost 3 test this Autumn. France and England are the only teams to beat the SH teams at home.
30 Nov 2009, 17:17 pm
@rossoneri: @17
hearty chuckle.
Id leave if Skop was banned. Then hire him as my Personal Bodyguard. Or guard-dog.
Dawn ? well, we’re still getting to know each other….
30 Nov 2009, 17:31 pm
@Sonito
Yes really. When was the last time South Africa won in Dublin? Or France?
There’s little doubt that the SH (or more particularly NZ, SA and AUS) is stronger than the top three NH sides but Australia can’t tour without losing tests up North. Neither can South Africa. Counting easy wins against Italy is far worse than counting easy wins against Argentina in Argentina.
NZ consistently come up North and beat everyone. South Africa don’t and Australia don’t. They might grab a couple of wins against the weaker sides (and they don’t always play the stronger NH sides because nobody expects them to play six test matches and the games have to be spread about).
France do have a good touring record which is quite amazing really when you consider they play more rugby than anyone else in the world. England’s record in the run up to 2003 was good.
Ireland do have to take a scalp or two in the SH now if they are to prove their progress. They play NZ home and away next year as well as England, France and Australia away before playing the Boks and Argentina at home. It’s certainly a good schedule of preparation for the World Cup.
30 Nov 2009, 18:49 pm
kiwis fully deserves ending top of the pile.what pleasure it was on saturday to watch rugby the way it should be playedwell done graham henry and the kiwi players!
30 Nov 2009, 19:23 pm
All victories will be superficial until the entire world has a concurrent season.
30 Nov 2009, 19:46 pm
Can someone please explain to me how these rankings work as i fail to see how the all blacks can be above the boks after the boks beating the lions and winning the tri nations.
30 Nov 2009, 19:47 pm
@blueboy: lions tests don’t count…
30 Nov 2009, 20:01 pm
@BALLER canREADY: Oh, everyone agrees with me except they can’t bring themselves to admit it. It’s got to remain their in-closet secret! Give them time.
30 Nov 2009, 20:13 pm
True reflection on current form…no problems here.
@Paddylock:
France and Ireland granted, but SA hasn’t lost to England,Wales and those useless Scots away from home in quite a few years now.
30 Nov 2009, 20:14 pm
@Oxy moron:
Good points.
A global season is the stuff of dreams though….
30 Nov 2009, 20:34 pm
2010 will be a watershed year for PDV and the Boks…..i bet the talks in the backrooms must be frantic….some real decisions need to be made now.
In my very ,very humble opinion that Bok set uo too much of a closed shop old boys club. I have nothing against continuity and experience but it has resulted in complacency to a certain extent. I mean how long did it take H Brussow to become a 1 st choice? Despite a stunning impact he was still earmarked to be dropped for France test for Schalk….and it was only an injury that allowed his talents to be displayed in Lions 2 nd test ….after a very good 1 st B Lions test he was dropped like a hot potato for Schalk….
Matfield and Bakkies are untouchable…..Smit has to be on field for 82 minutes …..
FDP and MS are above criticism…..JPP has been playing as if on a double dose of sleeping tablets…..
Beast tasted the axe and resonded magnificently.
Are we not allowing for complacency> How difficult and frustrating must it be for those players who week in and week out put in the big effort knowing that the 40 test veteran can perform poorly but will be there next week anyway?
I certainly do not advocate wholesale change for change sake….that too is suicide. But this disregard for form and acceptance of mediocrity is a cancer. The over reliance and dependence on Smit is and has done the skipper no favours….he now finds himself having to keep a young lion in Bissy out the mix at sharks and Boks for 22 months??? Can he do it? Any realisic option for him as a 3 is now well and truly drivel. BJ ,
30 Nov 2009, 20:38 pm
South Afirca lost 5 games this year New Zealand lost 4. Then taking into account the previous years rankings the Math makes sense.
And to use the logic of SA sweeping Nz, Nz beat the teams that beat SA ie Oz and France. So at worst that’d put them about even.
30 Nov 2009, 20:51 pm
Bj , cj and wp nel are the men for that job. In fact BJ used correctly can be a key part of the boks strategy to retain the WC…he is that good….obviously he has come on a great deal since leaving for Ireland.
Strategy and game plan has been found wanting….this too reflects poorly on the bok management team and skipper, who never remotely looked like a plan b was ever discussed.
Selections were a shocker on this tour…..in fact i cringe at the lack of foresight and disrespect shown to conditions.
Plumtree got a huge role to play in the Bok set up now….will he use Ruan Pienaar at 10?
Whats the deal with Smit and Bissy?
Will PDV walk the talk and begin to exert more authority and his own brand on the Boks….or do the rumours of player power actually hold credence?
Will the boks embrace the overseas saffas….as they should?
The crystal ball….22 months out, says a bok team like this may be best ….
15…F Steyn….Kirchner
14 Mapoe….JPP
13 J FOURIE….J DE JONGH
12 J DE VILLIERS…..M NEWMAN
11 HABANA….
10 M STEYN……P GRANT
9 F DU PREEZ….J VERMAAK
8 SPIES….D POTGIETER
7 J SMITH….D VERMEULEN
6BRUSSOW….L WATSON
5 A BEKKER….V MATFIELD
4 B BOTHA….JUANDRE KRUGER
3 BJ BOTHA…CJ VD LINDE
2 BISSY…T LIEBENBERG…CHILLIBOY
BEAST …HEINKE…
Captain Matfield.
30 Nov 2009, 23:42 pm
this is what it sounds like to be no1.
Go to YouTube and search ‘Changing room after French clash’
Good times !
“Only 1 Brad Thornie…..theres only 1 Brad Thornie….” – could it be the new Christmas no1 ?
30 Nov 2009, 23:44 pm
@Paddylock: Paddy Paddy Paddy, I wouldn’t put any of the NH teams in the same league as to top three, Congrats to the Kiwis by the way, well deserved and once again the team to beat.
The interesting thing about the Wallabies tour is that the statistics were similar for all three games, the only difference was that we converted well against Welsh, not so well against Irish and disgusting against the Scots. The important things is that the team grew and learnt from their mistakes, We had so many players that stood out, Cooper, Genia, Pocock, Mumm and Gits came back at the end. Ireland should feel fortunate to have drawn, the Scots should be proud as punch to have won and good on them but bring your team downunder and play and Suncorp against a full strength Wallabie outfit and then and only then will see where your team really is.
30 Nov 2009, 23:58 pm
@WakaNathan:
Google Rugby World Cup Champions 2007. Also try Tri-Nations Champions 2009. Super 14 Champions 2009 also works well. I hear even the keywords ‘Sevens’ and ‘Lions’ bring up some results.
I await your barrage of stats.
1 Dec 2009, 00:01 am
Yeah come now Paddy, you boys need to string together a few of these years before you can start competing with the big boys from down South
I for one would love to see a powerful Irish team at the next WC; can only add to the occasion.
I’m just not sure they know how win away from home yet.
1 Dec 2009, 00:04 am
@blueboy: Because the Boks lost a few of their points losing in Europe, whilst the AB’s were winning, as someone pointed out, Boks lost 5 this year, AB’s lost 4. It doesnt matter if you win the 3N, its all about overall wins, losses, away from home etc.
Point is, does it really matter? Some are suggesting that Ireland should be ahead of Australia? Why? last time they played, they drew. But the points ranking system takes into account a whole bunch of previous encounters and after all is said & done, its maths. Simple.
Many Bokke supporters are still getting all misty eyed over clouting us 3 zip this year – hey, full ya boots and celebrate because that may not happen for a while, who knows. In a way, we probably needed it, our depth needed to be tested, and you blokes are the best to do that, it was an honesty check.
Enjoy it all, its sport, teams win, lose and sometimes draw.
1 Dec 2009, 00:28 am
The Boks with their first choice team no injuries and playing well are by far the best team in the world at the moment to say otherwise is delusional. Thay have beaten the All Blacks 3 times this year, i know Carter didnt play in the first two games but so what, the boks played at 60% in those 2 games and won. Carter returned in the 3rd game and they still won and they won more comfortably than the 3 points suggests.
It seems the All Black supporters are getting a little ahead of themselves after Saturdays win over France, did they not watch the game? it was down to Frances defensive frailties more than anything the All Blacks done. In fact i have not seen 5 softer tries in ages.
The Boks were not great this year either, but there are too many people claiming they only won the tri nations because the other teams were poor but show me a tri nations which has had such close scorelines in ages.
It is the same every time the Boks go top people start bleating on that it is because of the other teams are poor. nobody is saying that the current Australian and All Black teams are the strongest they hae ever been but the Boks can only beat the teams put in front of them.
Ireland may have been unbeatean this year but they dont play top opposition consistently let alone 3 times each in a competition, the were also a penalty away from losing to wales in the 6 nations. The boks are poor travellers but show me any decent results of NH teams in the summer tours they take part in over the last 5 years.
1 Dec 2009, 00:43 am
In the real world you don’t EVER get to field your best team, with no injuries, in perfect weather, not too ring-rusty but not too worn out, with a ref who makes no errors.
That’s a computer fantasy game, not real rugby.
ALL sides are going to HAVE to cover with injuries, because injuries are GOING to happen. Not if, but when.
They’re going to HAVE to cope with bad weather, read the ref, find their combinations, peak at just the right time etc.
You can only play whoever is in front of you. Anytime, anywhere.
If you’re good enough, you’ll win.
1 Dec 2009, 01:23 am
@KiaKahaNZ: Finally a calm collected post.
Yup.
But for us beating New Zealand 3x makes it a very good year. THE rugby sporting rivalry.
2010 is another year. I am sure we have learned from our mistakes.
1 Dec 2009, 01:27 am
No one can blame Pieter De Villiers for the loss on Saturday.
The SA team on paper were very good, I expected a +8 point win, teh players never rocked up when it counted.
And no-one can tout Victor Matfield as a Bok captain, when his opportunities as captain came his petulance was embarrassing and cost us.
When he arrived on Saturday for the game – he just didn’t “feel like it”. Couldn’t be arsed to jump, defend, or play for the jersey. Smitty for all his limitations at 3 never ever stops playing for the jersey.
1 Dec 2009, 01:34 am
And I am glad I missed the typical full Keo post loss war.
1 Dec 2009, 01:37 am
@Centurionshark Yes, you will see that I don’t dispute that the Tri-Nations sides are still better. My point was simply in response to a previous assertion that seemed to imply that the SH sides come to the North and sweep all before them whereas the NH sides don’t do the same down South. The SH sides don’t sweep all before them in the North. NZ do. SA, Aus and Argentina don’t (and I’m including Argentina because if you include Italy and Scotland then you have to include the team that finished 3rd in the last World Cup). It’s very difficult to win away from home in world rugby. This is why when SA win away in NZ it’s such a big deal.
@Saussie/QldRed I don’t know what you’re taking issue with. I’ve already said that for Ireland to prove their progress they have to go to the SH and take a scalp. At least one. We play NZ and Australia away in 2010. We’ll give it a good go. I don’t disagree with your overall analysis of the Australian tour. Despite Australia’s poor year and not winning two of the four grandslam games I’d be quite happy with the way your team is developing. You’ve fixed your scrum and you are building a very good team. I hope your rugby public and media give the team the time to develop. I know that rugby union has a similar problem to the one we have in Ireland in trying to capture the imagination of the public (it’s the fourth most popular sport in both countries I think, it certainly is here). I would take issue with your analysis of the Ireland game. Yes, we were happy to take the draw in the end. It was Ireland’s first game together in seven months and Australia played well (Pocock was magnificent and as a Leinster fan I know just how brilliant Rocky Elsom is). We gave Australia a seven point head-start but your point about Australia not converting against Ireland ignores the fact that Ireland are the best side in the NH and they are less likely to allow teams to convert against them. I simply said that you could put forward an argument that Ireland deserve to be ahead of Australia in the rankings having won the NH competition and going unbeaten for 11 tests. But the simple fact is that if they had won eleven and not won ten and drawn one (against Australia) then they would be in third.
1 Dec 2009, 01:46 am
@DQuinn25: The Irish team can only play the teams they’re scheduled to play. The 6N competition doesn’t have the same strength as the 3N (5 World Cup wins out of six) but, in fairness, Ireland went to Twickenham straight after England had won the World Cup in 2003 and were indisputably the best team in the world and beat them.
1 Dec 2009, 02:15 am
@Paddylock: Your team is looking very good.
I think you’ve found the pivot for the next 8 years or so. The rest of the back line as we know are very very good.
Like many countries you need a front row, with that you will be very very hard to beat.
I suspect we will see a changing of the NH vs SH guard soon. The competition is getting very strong at club level, which will move the national teams upstream. For all 6 nations.
Good for the sport.
1 Dec 2009, 02:42 am
We’re actually okay at loosehead. Healy is 22 years of age and super around the park and people who know a bit about scrummaging, Ollie le Roux when he was at Leinster for example, say he will develop in to a very solid scrummager with some experience. Horan has a couple of years left in him and Buckley and others are more than adequate.
But at tighthead we have nothing. Absolutely nothing. Poor John Hayes has to play 80 minutes in every game now despite holding the position for a decade. He’s never been the greatest scrummager but has been a great servant.
We could do with a bit of back-up at lock (Casey and Cullen are good but getting on).
All other positions are as well covered as they’ll ever be with a playing base the size of ours.
Sexton will never be a Carter but he’s a winner, hugely competitive with a good kicking game and the ability to move a backline and make a break. Crucially he’s top class on defence and shores up a channel that was exploited by many teams. We have a brilliant head coach who has assembled a very good coaching team.
A WC semi-final is a realistic goal now.
The big difference now is that the Irish players, because of professionalism, are realising that they’re not grossly physically inferior to the South Africans and New Zealanders. We never felt physically inferior to the Australians, they beat us in different ways.
It would be very good for the sport for Ireland to step up along with France and another 6N team on a consistent basis. If you look back on the 2003 World Cup not one team ranked below the side they were playing won a game (with the exception of Aus v NZ and Aus were playing at home). As we all know the number one ranked team won the tournament.
2007 was a little better but it would be great if there were six to eight teams to be truly competitive in the World Cup.
1 Dec 2009, 03:23 am
@ 6 Andre WP
cheer up man,you’re still world cup champions and trin-nations champions-somethings us kiwis want to try and rectify
1 Dec 2009, 05:21 am
“The boks are poor travellers but show me any decent results of NH teams in the summer tours they take part in over the last 5 years.”
When last have the All Blacks lost anything on any EOYT in the last 5 years? They’ve scored TWO grand slams under their belt in that time.
1 Dec 2009, 05:22 am
@TheTackler:
Big deal…….what cups they got?
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