Du Preez: ‘I almost quit’
1 Dec 2009
Fourie du Preez has decided to stay with the Springboks after admitting he had thoughts of retirement earlier this year.
Like Victor Matfield, Bryan Habana and John Smit, Du Preez is one of many stalwarts in the team that remains from the Boks’ victorious campaign at the 2007 World Cup and has been a star player for the world champions in 2009.
The Bok No 9 does, however, admit that he almost considered retiring at the end of this season because of personal reasons, but after a successful year, he now wants to be part of the Boks’ title defence at the 2011 World Cup in New Zealand.
‘At the moment I’m really enjoying my rugby, and the atmosphere that has been created has brought out the best in my game,’ Du Preez told SuperRugby. ‘It was a difficult few months for me earlier this year, and a lot hinged on how things went. But the way I feel now I have a few good years in my. It wasn’t as if things weren’t good at the Boks in the past, but rather a case of whether I can reach my own goals and do better in my game.
‘A lot of us who were in the team that won the 2007 World Cup said we would make decisions after the Lions tour and take it from there,’ Du Preez said. ‘But the success we have had this year makes 2011 the next goal. If the year didn’t go so well, then my international career would be over right now.’
Du Preez has enjoyed a triumphant season with the Boks and Bulls, which has seen him win Tri-Nations, British and Irish Lions, Super 14 and Currie Cup titles in 2009. Many believe he should have received the IRB Player of the Year award, but he lost out to All Blacks skipper Richie McCaw.
These achievements have influenced Du Preez’s decision to stay.
‘I’ve really been happy with this season – it was definitely my best yet,’ said Du Preez. ‘I really gave a lot of thought to retiring at the end of this season. I was planning for a season or two overseas and wanted to get out of Pretoria, out of my comfort zone.
‘But the way things have gone made it difficult to contemplate quitting. The atmosphere that was set by the Springbok management was really wonderful. This Bok management is really some of the best ever and in that aspect I enjoy being part of the Springboks. They made it easier to make the decision.’
Du Preez’s contract at the Bulls expires in October 2010, but it looks certain that the scrumhalf will sign an extension to fulfill his 2011 World Cup ambitions.
433 Comments
1 Dec 2009, 07:50 am
Bly jy is nog met ons Peet…
1 Dec 2009, 08:00 am
The question is, retire and do what? Did this brilliant dragon study anything?
The last time I can remember his box-kick going out on the full was Newlands 2008. Superb accuracy!
1 Dec 2009, 08:02 am
That would be a major blow to the Boks, maybe this is an indication that development of our backup needs to be stepped up and maybe next year is the year to do it, let our main boks just play for their franchises and let the laaities have a go, then bring the boks in for the end of year tour next year and start our momentum from their going into the RWC.
Scary that we are on the brink of losing possibly the greatest scrum half to have played the game.
1 Dec 2009, 08:03 am
Intersting arcticle….dont quite know what to make of it actually…..FDP seems quite a complex character.
1 Dec 2009, 08:05 am
In his book John says it took 3 years for Fourie to open up to him
1 Dec 2009, 08:07 am
@Lions_Soutie: Make no mistake he’s a clever dude and very maticulous so I’m sure he would succeed in anything he did, just one of those people.
My worry is always what happens to these guys when they do leave the set up and retire, they should all be employed as coaches, CEO’s, administrators etc then Rugby would have rugbys best interest at heart and we would be unbeatable.
1 Dec 2009, 08:09 am
@Lions_Soutie: How is Johns book? Is it a decent read? I would assume he doesn’t say too much due to still being involved in the set up.
1 Dec 2009, 08:10 am
Yes, hopefully they use their rugby intellect for the benefit of future generations and dont all go into opening the next Dros:)
1 Dec 2009, 08:15 am
Mr. Prima Donna himself deigned to grant his adoring fans another year of his repetitive box kicking genius while the backline he’s supposed to be feeding whithers and dies a lonely death.
What a feigning immaculate genius springbok rugby has been gratuitously blessed with, I wonder what would have happened if he’d have left, perhaps we’d have developed our running game by now. Oh glory be to the saviour of SA rugby, what would we do without such immaculate unsurpassed brilliance?
1 Dec 2009, 08:16 am
So FDP cops a bit of a bollocking and he considers quitting? This is a guy who clearly is mentally weak.
1 Dec 2009, 08:16 am
Timbo. It is a good light-hearted read. He does mention times were administrators and coaches, players did stuff up but he’ll always try to explain why they probably did it and therefore tries to be balanced about everything. Worth it!
1 Dec 2009, 08:16 am
And a quitter to boot. Kop toe is hardly the word.
1 Dec 2009, 08:19 am
@TheTackler: When did he cop anything?
@skopskiet: I’m sure the dude plays to the coaches strategy hey? He is rated by every pundit in the world – people who know rugby – but not rated by you? Interesting, who should be playing in the no. 9 shirt then?
1 Dec 2009, 08:20 am
Skop, for interest sake, what was your favourite Springbok team since readmission?
From what I’ve read about him you would have severely disliked Bennie Osler’s kicking play in the pre-war days.
1 Dec 2009, 08:20 am
I think some of you guys have missed his actual comment. He was thinking of retiring from International rugby and going overseas to play for a couple of seasons. Not giving up playing entirely.
1 Dec 2009, 08:22 am
@Timbo: You buying Joosts new one? LOL
1 Dec 2009, 08:24 am
Fourie’s hair is looking like Jake White’s after 4 years of stress. Might have to go for the shave cut soon:)
1 Dec 2009, 08:24 am
@skopskiet:
what a bitter little man you are.
Do you know him?
Does he in any way come across as a primma donna?
Nope, Mr.Humble himself.
….and, he saves his best performances for the big games. S14 semi and final, 2nd test Lions loftus, tri-nations home and away.
what a legend.
no better scrumhalf on the planet
1 Dec 2009, 08:25 am
@TheTackler:
Not as mentally week as the All Blacks who constantly choke at World Cups.
Oops walked right into that one!
1 Dec 2009, 08:26 am
it’s fine – most who are akin to a genius are complex!
1 Dec 2009, 08:31 am
I also think that he is one of those talismatic players like Habana is.
When he plays well, teams he plays for play well.
1 Dec 2009, 08:33 am
Bulls and Boks would’ve been fu*#ked to say the least if he quit!!
1 Dec 2009, 08:33 am
@Brigadier Van Zyl: I think people like Skiet forget all the games where he has been instrumental in the Boks and Bulls success.
He almost single handedly ripped the English apart in our pool game in the RWC in a game crucial to our success in the end. Maybe we should bring January should be back.
1 Dec 2009, 08:35 am
John, Bakkies, Victor, Juan, Schalk, FDP, Jean, and Habs are playing legends. If these guys stay fit we’ll have a good chance of winning at 2011
1 Dec 2009, 08:38 am
@Timbo: Exactly, arguably the best 9 ever to play the game, cheating joost couldnt lace fourie’s left boot!!
1 Dec 2009, 08:39 am
@Lions_Soutie: 100%
I can say that on this EOYT we have missed Juan Smith, Pierre Spies and the irratic Frans Steyn. If you look at the ages of these players they won;t be pensioners like most of Englands 2003 team when they defend the cup in 2011.
1 Dec 2009, 08:39 am
FDP obviously toyed with the notion of Euro$s over being treated nicely. Hmmm… said it yesterday… the lad is precious.
1 Dec 2009, 08:41 am
@ShaunMichaels: I have been watching some of the old RWC footage on ESPN, Joost was a good player but lacked a quality pass … big time! I was quite surprised at how slow and wayward some of his delivery from the base of scrums and rucks really were. He still seems a quality player away from home though! LOL
1 Dec 2009, 08:44 am
@Timbo:
he’s just bitter.
for the life of me he is never happy with any of Our players.
it’s not the fact that he highlights players who have bad games but why call them derogatory names and insults as well? Yet when someone like,for instance, Luke Watson insults national coach and captain….this person is considered a legend.
did anyone ever see a non white player attacked with the same venom?
blatantly biggotted and anti-south-african
oh,and so predictable….que the insults and name calling.
1 Dec 2009, 08:45 am
In the full article, Fourie also says that he has no interest in playing rugby into his thirties like George Gregan. He states that he will stop playing as soon as he doesn’t enjoy it anymore.
The impression is that he doesn’t need the money of playing into your twilight years. He plays rugby purely for the enjoyment of it.
1 Dec 2009, 08:45 am
@RugbyRulz: No Rulz, it’s about enjoying the game rather than trapsing around a field for 80 mins every week when you don;t wat to be there, even for a big wage. I know people who have left big paying jobs for lesser more enjoyable ones because the pay cheque doesn’t suit everyones thinking, maybe we should be more supportive of an oke who has this attitude? But if he had gone over seas we would have basted the dude for choosing the Euro, come on man!
1 Dec 2009, 08:48 am
@Timbo: He was an opportunistic player, had no left to right pass at all and to be fair probably would’ve been aa good sarel pretorius today!
1 Dec 2009, 08:50 am
Yes Timbo. The only worry about 2011 is the age of out tight forwards. But managed correctly they’ll be fine. I think Johnson and Eales were almost rested for a year before their grand finales.
I loved those mid-90′s overseas tours. I don’t think the NH had discovered gym yet, we used to hammer them. Joost mesmerised defenses around rucks with his elusive running. Not sure he would have been as effective with modern day ‘league type’ defenses.
1 Dec 2009, 08:50 am
complexity and genius one huge bundle of precious joy. The box kick king.
1 Dec 2009, 08:53 am
@Timbo: I have no complaint to a player moving offshore for $s.
@Tacitus: Many players play on comfortably in a cruise-mode atmosphere (Japan). George and the boys (Randwick crew) are living large.
It is nice to see FDP rates George… or else he wouldn’t have mentioned him
1 Dec 2009, 08:57 am
@Lions_Soutie: The difference between NH and SH is the pitch. SH are quite comfortable playing on hard-as-nails, dustbowls. SH find concrete the norm. The AB’s are the ONLY team that has the benefit of All Seasons in One Day.
IMHO the All Blacks have their weather as their greatest advantage… it prepares them globally better than any other team.
1 Dec 2009, 08:57 am
quitters and legends vs villains and stickers
How hero’s are formed and then discarded, just like Joost.
He won us a few and then he lost us a few. I wonder if we added up all those he won for us vs all those he lost for us how the ledger would ultimately balance up.
One mans genius is another’s mediocriy
1 Dec 2009, 09:01 am
@Brigadier Van Zyl: I want to know what qualifies him to talk so much kak.
1 Dec 2009, 09:01 am
@David: twits who cant read
1 Dec 2009, 09:02 am
@skopskiet:
You’re a strange oke.
1 Dec 2009, 09:03 am
Reading between the lines it would appear that he was probably a bit worried about how Peter De villiers would go! He was probably worried that thing may have gone pear-shaped and he did not want to part of that.
However, it is a very good sign that everybody seems very happy with De Villiers and the rest of the Springbok Management team.
Weldone to all concerned!
1 Dec 2009, 09:09 am
Does anyone else feel that we overplayed a game plan yet again? Didn’t Deans and Henry warn us this was going to happen?
Too much of the game plan surrounds guys like FDP when he is having a bad day the team seems to have a bad day. He is unchallenged and thus the decline in his game. And why on earth does he have to do back flips every time he arrives at a ruck??? How many times didn’t we lose possession this way and Pienaar is no different in fact he doesn’t even know how to pass a ball without running with it first. We need someone new and fresh without the ego’s to challenge these guys.
Glimpses of EOYT 2005 and 2006 is starting to appear again. But what the hell it is nearly S14 time again the heavy weights is at it again.
PS. BTW now that we played club sides over there are france and Ireland going to play some of our sides over here?? We need to get our balls back in provincial rugby after SA A lost it on tour.
1 Dec 2009, 09:14 am
@Lions_Soutie: 24 – Agree LS. If we manage those players they can still play WC 2011.
I also read John’s book and found it to be a great read. Also thought it was light hearted. Enjoyed it.
@Timbo: Yes we did miss Juan and Spies also Bakkies. All three would have made a huge difference in the lineouts too especially Juan.
If Fransie had played we may have won. He can kick well in the wet and actually in any conditions. Remember those 3 monster kicks he got in the Boks last game against NZ? Well if he played Saturday maybe he would have got some of the longer kicks over. Also remember Fransie getting that kick in the world cup was probably about 58m. The one in NZ was 60m. We sure missed having all of those players on Saturday.
1 Dec 2009, 09:16 am
@skopskiet: I read some of your posts a couple of years ago, whats up man? something is eating at your gut.
1 Dec 2009, 09:20 am
Pleased FdP is staying and going to play on. What a loss that would have been had he left SA.
Best scummie in the world.
John said in his book about Fourie du Preez. “If There’s a better rugby brain in the world, I haven’t come across it”
He rated FdP the best 9 he has ever played with.
1 Dec 2009, 09:22 am
@Brigadier Van Zyl:
“id anyone ever see a non white player attacked with the same venom?”
You must be kidding me, right? Do you read this forum and others like it?
@iceman:#41
I thinkk you hit the nail on the head there.
1 Dec 2009, 09:24 am
If only we had more Bryan Habana’s in that backline of ours.
1 Dec 2009, 09:26 am
Looks like Fourie Du Preez is gearing up for q autobiography with Keo being a main sponsor.
1 Dec 2009, 09:27 am
@Wezwp: Why? Already have both wingers and fullback chasing the bombs. You think the centres should chase too?
Just kidding… sort of
1 Dec 2009, 09:27 am
Question… who actually wrote this article? This article appreared on Rugby365′s website yesterday but only came onto Keo today. So I think it’s only right for Keo.co.za to credit the source.
1 Dec 2009, 09:29 am
Wez… It is a shame Habana, Jpp and Kirshner are not utilised more. My god these boys can F I N I S H… why the heck are they constantly being run ragged chasing BS up-n-unders?
It’s got me stuffed.
1 Dec 2009, 09:31 am
@RugbyRulz: It’s because Morne Steyn is a one trick pony.
1 Dec 2009, 09:34 am
@rossoneri:
But that trick brought us the S14, the Currie Cup, the British Lions series and the Tri Nations trophy. Pretty neat trick, wouldn’t you say?
1 Dec 2009, 09:34 am
@Lions_Soutie: I wouldn’t open up to John either. Seems he is just a skinner bek captain who wants to make money off the personal lives of his team.
1 Dec 2009, 09:35 am
@Tacitus: And what happened when the form left the building? So did the wins. Morne just the new Jannie de Beer, and Andre Pretorius. We’ve seen these one dimensional types before.
1 Dec 2009, 09:35 am
@rossoneri: hahaha you baiting me or what?
1 Dec 2009, 09:38 am
The award for the blogger who knows least about rugby goes to Skopskiet. Well done boy, at least you won something.
1 Dec 2009, 09:38 am
@Tacitus: Morne is indeed talented, he needs to expand his skill-set. IMHO Carter has the lot and if Morne is prepared to move out of him comfort zone he may become a very good 10.
1 Dec 2009, 09:38 am
That is a boring old trick im surprised we won so much games with it. You still do need accurate kickers in tight games. What im trying to say is that there has to be a balance between the 2 contrasting styles .
1 Dec 2009, 09:39 am
@RugbyRulz: not baiting. Why are you a Morne Steyn lover?
1 Dec 2009, 09:41 am
@rossoneri:
Err…what’s your point?
When Morne was off form, he didn’t win us the test. When he’s on form again, he will win us tests again.
Where’s the problem there?
Rather, the question should be what percentage of the time is he on form? And so far he is on form far more than he is not.
And if anyone should be criticized, it’s the coaching team who couldn’t come up with any other way of winning a test when Morne wasn’t able to pull the irons out of the fire.
1 Dec 2009, 09:41 am
@rossoneri: Not at all, I do recognise his prodigious goal kicking ability.
1 Dec 2009, 09:42 am
@RugbyRulz: I agree with what you said. Except that Morne is stupid like Frans Steyn.Both of them can only master one thing at a time. Kicking that’s it. The rest of it makes zero sense to them.
Take the 19-0 game in Cape Town in 2008 with the All Blacks. Carter must have missed 4 kicks, but his on field distribution and skill, set his back line on fire and the tries came. Morne, when kicking form is gone. Got **** all. Nada. Niks.
1 Dec 2009, 09:45 am
@Tacitus: You know Tac. You’re right. But if a player is kak dom, and can only do one thing. What must the coaching staff do. I think they must get a flyhalf that can do it all, not a kicker.
It’s like saying my secretary types at amazing speed, but cannot make copies or answer the phone. At the typing contest she was great, but couldn’t arrange an appointment if you begged her.
1 Dec 2009, 09:45 am
@rossoneri: How many World Cups has Dan Carter won?
1 Dec 2009, 09:47 am
@rossoneri:
OK. I’m done here. Pick Ruan Pienaar in your team if great distribution is your primary goal, then.
I keep forgetting why I visit this site so infrequently these days. Thanks for reminding me.
1 Dec 2009, 09:48 am
@rossoneri: Did you ask for a BJ? She may have been WORLD CLASS there
1 Dec 2009, 09:49 am
@Tacitus: During the S14 I recall a Cheetah player, I do not remember his name. Perhaps he could be tested.
1 Dec 2009, 09:49 am
@Oubaas2009: The same number as Naas Botha.
1 Dec 2009, 09:49 am
If he wanted to quit and go to Europe it would only have been for the money. No way that he would have developed as a player any further because his game (if it comes of) is handmade for the conditions over there.
If he wanted to only play because he loves the game he would have gone to Aus or NZ where they could teach him how to tail the ball and not constantly arrive at a loose scrum one minute after a tackle has been made.
1 Dec 2009, 09:50 am
@Oubaas2009: But you would sell your left nut to have Carter as SA’s flyhalf wouldn’t you. As a lover of the sport, (and I’m presuming ofcourse), you cannot be so obtuse as not to appreciate Carter’s game, skill, and style. Pure Brilliance, packaged with intellect.
Don;t hate the player hate the game.
Your Morne kan skop. En as die skop klaar is. Is hy klaar. Punt.
1 Dec 2009, 09:52 am
Leave skoppie alone bra. He has the right to an opinion.
1 Dec 2009, 09:54 am
@Tacitus: Ok Tac. Are you saying that all the Flyhalf needs to do is kick all day? Cos if that is your idea of a complete Flyhalf then yes. Morne is your man. Saturday ought to have had you breaking out in Christmas Carols, and somewhere in your head you would have been whispering how Morne is rocking your world. He did everyting you said he must do. Bet you were real shocked at the result though?
1 Dec 2009, 09:56 am
@RugbyRulz: Rulz it was an analogy, but for the record, I am a woman, so the joke didn’t quite come off.
1 Dec 2009, 09:57 am
@TheTackler: Difference being, Naas never played in a World Cup. Its like saying how many World Cups did Danie Craven win.
I will ask you again. How many World Cups has Dan Carter won?
1 Dec 2009, 10:02 am
@rossoneri: Dan is a fantastic player. One of the best ever. But in terms of turning it on when it really matters? Does he tick that box? Still up for debate until RWC 2011 IMO. That goes for entire All Black Team since 1989!
1 Dec 2009, 10:02 am
@Oubaas2009: Who are you asking? Me tackler, skop? WTF!
Is this answer the obvious question day? Ok I’ll play.
How many has Morne Steyn won? Your ***** of Flyhalfs!
1 Dec 2009, 10:02 am
1987
1 Dec 2009, 10:04 am
@rossoneri: Look in the mirror and say slowly. I am a clever fella.
1 Dec 2009, 10:04 am
@Oubaas2009: Every game the All Blacks play really matter. That is what is wrong with the Boks.
1 Dec 2009, 10:04 am
@rossoneri: My apologies
@Oubaas2009: Apples being what they are… I would have Dan Carter in a losing team before I would have Morne Steyn, Frans Steyn, Pienaar, ANY South African flyhalf present or past.
Seriously you are delusional if you think Morne is a good 10, he is limited, robotic, acutely one dimensional. That does not mean he is a loss. He kicks goals very well, most of the time.
1 Dec 2009, 10:06 am
@Oubaas2009: That is information I already know. You try it. You could use the confidence and the insight in how to use the quote arrows.
1 Dec 2009, 10:08 am
@RugbyRulz: no probs rulz.
1 Dec 2009, 10:09 am
@rossoneri: World Cups are won by defense and that “one trick”
1 Dec 2009, 10:10 am
@rossoneri: Stop your blaspheming
1 Dec 2009, 10:11 am
@RugbyRulz: Shite, well I guess PDV, the selectors, Heineke Meyer, Frans Ludeke and I are all delusional. I never was comparing Dan Carter to Morne Steyn. Dan Carters pedigree is fantastic but fact remains he has the Everest of rugby still to climb after a few attempts at it. I think he would be the first to admit that.
1 Dec 2009, 10:14 am
@JL1: Not always, but what you’ve described is how ugly boring rugby is played.
@JL1: ****. Are you happy now? Feeling better?
1 Dec 2009, 10:15 am
@JL1: Yes it served our Bernie well; he knocked over an absolute pearl. I don’t know who was the more surprised, Bernie, the rest of the Wallabies or the Bokke; I know I had a grin wider than the span on Sydney Harbour Bridge.
There is a place in the game for all facets of play, the goal being the cornerstone of Rugby.
1 Dec 2009, 10:15 am
@Oubaas2009: Naas was at the very peak of his powers in 1987 and 1991. (Almost as good as Grant Fox, in fact.) But both of those RWCs were won by a different flyhalf.
1 Dec 2009, 10:16 am
@Oubaas2009: Dude, 20 years from now, if Dan Carter still does not have a WC medal, he will still be a giant of the game, and will far surpass the likes of Morne, Frans, or Ruan in pedigre, and excellence. Fact.
1 Dec 2009, 10:18 am
@rossoneri: Boring but winning — love it
Yes, much better if you have to swear
1 Dec 2009, 10:18 am
Would you rather have a Bok side with or without FDP? His detractors (there’s seemingly only one of this blog) must be nuts.
1 Dec 2009, 10:19 am
@TheTackler: Fantastic argument.
1 Dec 2009, 10:20 am
@JL1: I’m glad you agree.
1 Dec 2009, 10:21 am
@RugbyRulz: Well it is extremely difficult to get it right, more so than a try, hence a try was the opportunity to actually try and kick the ball over the crossbar
Bernie knew that that 3 points would break the opposition team, look what it did to the ABs IN 95, the Wallabies in 2003, the Pomms in 1999
1 Dec 2009, 10:22 am
@rossoneri: Pedigree. He is a giant of the game. That is a fact you’re right. But a giant without a RWC medal is not a very happy giant. And I’m not your dude, dude.
1 Dec 2009, 10:22 am
@Oubaas2009: I am certain Dan would love the mug on his CV, suffice to say he will currently have to make do with being the best flyhalf, at this point in time.
On a closing note for the day (it is 7:15pm here) I am looking forward to winding down the years end with joyous frivolity. If I do not pop in between now and the next season (S14) I wish you all a wonderful Christmas / holiday season and a prosperous new year.
Cheers all
1 Dec 2009, 10:23 am
Dan Carters has fantastic abilties as a rugby player, no doubt.
He is however vulnerable when placed under pressure. Sides that have the abilities to physically dominate the AB’s and force them bacwards, thereby putting pressure on Carter, he is prone to imploding under the pressure.
This is why the physical sides like SA and France can beat the AB’s.
When the AB’s alllowed to play off the front foot , few better than Carter
1 Dec 2009, 10:23 am
@wooden spoon: The FDP detractors amount to Skopskiet. He’s a real rugby brain.
1 Dec 2009, 10:24 am
@rossoneri: Adding “dude” in your sentences realy does show your upbringing, vocabulary, age and intellect
1 Dec 2009, 10:25 am
@Oubaas2009: You are my DUDE! Get over it.
1 Dec 2009, 10:26 am
I see the WP people , or is that poephols?, on Keo suffer what Kopdokters would call Mental Anguish.
So what is this cause of mental anguish? What triggers this irrational behaviour that, if not treated, may lead to other problems like suicide.
I suspect when any Bulls player come into vision or debate. Their brains react much in the same fashion when a danger signal triggers the fight or flight mechanism.
This is borne out of years ( 8 LOOOOONG years ) of winning sweet blue f@kkel on the domestic and international scene.A sort of desperation creeps up on them, like in this years CC, but alas, HEARTBROKEN again.
You could compare this with issues like domestic violence and the destruction of the soul and self believe of said person.
The good news is that effective remedies is freely available.
But it ultimately start with the person himself. Recognise first that there is a problem and then get help.
No need to thank me for this is a public service.
1 Dec 2009, 10:29 am
@JL1: I must be kicking your ***, if the only thing you could come back with is the word “Dude”. You wanna try rugby again? Just a thought. Keep up boytjie, this isn’t RT where we swap braai tips.
1 Dec 2009, 10:30 am
@RugbyRulz: Sorry I missed you RR. Good to see you back here.
Same to you, have a wonderful Chritmas. It must be your holiday season there in Sydney. Here we are in our holiday season too. Love December in SA. Summer and it is all festival.
Catch up with you during the S14.
1 Dec 2009, 10:33 am
@rossoneri: No this is keo where we swop insults.
keo co za/forum/kindergarten
1 Dec 2009, 10:34 am
@Karoolander: Fine words, Karoo. And that comes from a Sharks supporter.
1 Dec 2009, 10:35 am
@Karoolander: Exactly Karoolander. So what are you wearing today? Two tone shirt and Vernon Koekemoer short demin shorts, or just jumping in the fray as back-up to your braai tip buddy JL1.
1 Dec 2009, 10:36 am
The problem with players like Morne and FdP is that they are over-coach from an early age. Unlike coaches in countries like NZ, coaches in SA don’t want a player to think for himself. No… they must play the game as set out by the coach on a drawing board in some classroom at schoolboy level. Thus they cannot adapt on the field if things don’t work out as planned and they will keep on repeating what they were asked to do by the coach even if it does not work.
A national strategy regarding the coaching of schoolboys is needed. Let kids up to the age of eleven only play sevens at school level. This will broaden the player pool because everybody will be able to take part. It will also enhance the kid’s ability to read the game better which will stand him in good stead when he moves to the 15-man code from age 13 and onwards. At this level the following must be the most important skills to be coached:
1. The emphasis is on the players making decisions, rather than the coach telling them how and why to do it.
2. The coach creates situations where players have to find solutions for themselves.
3. This approach also assists in developing communication skills, leadership and teamwork.
(From NZRU Coaching Toolbox)
This may take a while, given our culture of wanting someone at the top telling us what to do, but the sooner we start the sooner we will reap the results.
1 Dec 2009, 10:36 am
@justrugby: Hello JR. Yes agree there. The last time we beat ABs in Cape Town. Think it was in 2005 game, we did just that. Put a lot of pressure on Carter and his game just fell flat. We won that day.
1 Dec 2009, 10:38 am
@nama1: You agree then that a huge part of the problem lies with the coaching?
1 Dec 2009, 10:39 am
@nama1: But even some members of the public prefer this structured coaching approach. Remember when Pdv said he wants his players to “play the situation”, and “skills development needs to be worked on”, in 2008. The scribes here on keo and some bloggers said it’s the most ridiculous thing they have ever heard.
1 Dec 2009, 10:40 am
penalty kicks should be awarded 1 point, drop goals 2 and tries 6. Then we might see the Springbok’s playing rugby again.
IRB have tried everything from introducing short arm Elv’s to changing rules every season just to try break the boring monotony of this ping pong play without the ball boring game. But try as they might Saffa rugby players always revert to type, its embedded in our genes to play safe and conservative so Jannie de Beer, Naas Botha, Braam Van Straaten, Joel Stransky, Louis Koen, Morne Steyn and De Wet Ras are the type of hero’s we inculcate at fly half. No Carter’s or Larkham’s or even Honiball’s for us. Its all those 3 pointer’s that count as far as we’re concerned, whoever thought that the game of rugby was designed around scoring tries?
1 Dec 2009, 10:41 am
@Karoolander: Yes, but not with the National Coache’s ideas. Lower down, and at Provincial level sure.
1 Dec 2009, 10:42 am
@Puma:
Agree Puma, and a couple of times after that, the secret to beating the AB’s is getting them to turn, not easy but if you can do it you have a good chance to beat them.
The hate going backwards and because they so seldom do, when they are forced back they panic and start making mistakes !!!
1 Dec 2009, 10:42 am
@JL1:
Blasphemy
u ppl r too classic
1 Dec 2009, 10:43 am
@skopskiet: Do you think after everything the IRB have tried before as you’ve stated that it will work?
1 Dec 2009, 10:45 am
Pietman I knew you couldn’t stay away too long the whiff of the snot n trane getjommel lured you back again. Can’t help oneself when there’s a good snot klap in the offing. Welcome home.
1 Dec 2009, 10:45 am
@Papoose: Tell me about it. We have our own middle America right here in Pretoria SA. Pick-up trucks and all.
1 Dec 2009, 10:46 am
@rossoneri: You could also argue that implementing the correct gameplan, you will create a situation that favours you most.You dictate proceedings and force your gameplan on the other team.
We witnessed it the whole year. Our gameplan works for the SH, but not for NH conditions.
1 Dec 2009, 10:47 am
@skopskiet: Who is Pietman? Or more specifically, what is the Pietman’s new nic?
1 Dec 2009, 10:47 am
@rossoneri: You really are the type that I saw in Dublin, all tanked up, throwing name and ready to fight anything, disgraceful South Africans
Shove your head up your arse and fight for fresh breath, if you want to fight
1 Dec 2009, 10:48 am
@justrugby: That is how we played it that day. I remember we made them turn kicking well behind them. It put Carter under a lot of pressure and we won.
Similar to the kick-and-chase this year. (Carter never played in two games) but we did the same putting pressure on them. In the kick-and-chase though the kick must be spot on the penny though and your chasers need to be right on top of it too. Otherwise it wont work.
1 Dec 2009, 10:50 am
@rossoneri: Why not the national coach? Is he above criticism?
At provicial level i believe some of the coaches is way ahead of the national setup.
1 Dec 2009, 10:51 am
@Puma:
The kick and chase game has it’s place against the correct opposition, and like you say it needs to be executed properly.
1 Dec 2009, 10:52 am
@Karoolander: Look. Perhaps you are right. One has to figure out the best plan, with what you have to work with.
Robbie Deans coached the Crusaders and it was amazing what he could do with them and the success he has had. He is trying to get the Aussies into that frame, but it appears that they are struggling sometimes to get his way or gameplan to click on the park, but when they get it right, they are amazing. Take the Boks last year against England, 2008. They struggled all Trinations to get what Pdv was trying to get them to see, and when it clicked. Amazing.
I’ll concede that Pdv and co, may have gotten the plan wrong for Saturday’s game, but please. When you are a player are trying to do one thing all game and it’s not working, are you going to persist or try something else. They must also use their melon’s.
1 Dec 2009, 10:54 am
@Karoolander: Do you think missing Fransie at the back is why maybe it never worked in the wet NH conditions? I know FdP and Morne kicked well in the SH but if we had Fransie at FB it may have worked.
Also some of the penalties we missed were long range. If Fransie was there who knows he may have got them. He did get them in NZ. 3 huge monster kicks and it was wet there too and also cold. Not as cold as Ireland with fog. Fransie also got a monster kick for us in the wc cup too. PdV need to decide which players he needs to go forward for the wc. I think pick about 3 players from overseas and that is it no more. Otherwise the rest will go and play there.
JdV, Fransie should be two of them. BJ is coming home so that wont be a problem.
1 Dec 2009, 10:55 am
@Karoolander: He is not above critisizm, but he is miles ahead of what any of the other coaches are doing at the provincial or school levels. Some of them are still perpetuating the same old traditional rubbish.
1 Dec 2009, 10:55 am
@nama1:
“Let kids up to the age of eleven only play sevens at school level.”
Make that 13 years, in other words at primary school level.
@Karoolander: #110
Coaching at all levels need to be addressed. Not much a coach at national level can do to change the habits of players if they are set in their ways for 10+ years.
1 Dec 2009, 10:56 am
@rossoneri: True, they should change if something ain`t working.
I do not want to offer any excuses for Saterdays lost, but the coaching staff should have seen that something wasn`t right.
They publicly stated that, even after 3 losses, they were still confident and that there was no need to be alarmed.
All i can say is, HUH?
1 Dec 2009, 10:58 am
@justrugby: Yip, Those kicks have to be spot on all the time otherwise it will never work. Chasers wont get there in time. Needed Fransie maybe at FB on Saturday. He can play in any conditions.
1 Dec 2009, 10:58 am
@Puma: So Fransie, must compensate for Morne’s failings? And who must be dropped. Zane, who had a good game, or are you suggesting Fransie at Flyhalf.
1 Dec 2009, 10:59 am
@Karoolander:Absolutely.
1 Dec 2009, 10:59 am
Actually the problem with Morne Steyn is where he’s playing his domestic rugby. He could actually develop into quite a handy running pivot. The whole problem with Morne’s game is its been honed by Brigadier van Zyl and Fourie du Preez so he just picked up where Liefling left off and continued in the same one dimensional mode.
Everybody thinks this Blou Bul kak is the way the Bok’s should be plying their trade. Even head coach De Villiers gone and sold his soul to such ingrained non eventful trash. And lo and behold Fdp and Morne Steyn single handedly sink Sa’s Bok hopes on Eoyt both against France and again vs Ireland.
Morne must break away from Fdp, those two are simply no good for each other. Fdp is ruining Morne’s natural instinct and Fdp is not producing anything new, in fact between the two of them we regressing into the same dismal trash that Pdv was supposed to be moving away from. When last did our backline produce anything. Twickenham 2008 or thereabouts.
2009 has become a steady decline back into the morass of one trick pony predictability with hardly a light at the end of the tunnel, until either Fdp or Morne Steyn get taken out the equation, and my bet would be the former. Change the scrum half and watch an entire new lease of life envelope the proactive potential in this team. Its Fdp that is the stifling influence, not that its his fault at all, its just that he don’t know any different or any better.
1 Dec 2009, 11:01 am
@Puma: When FDP or Morne is not on song then we lose
John Smit should have changed tactics – not the first time he was found short when it cam to changing tactics, and the selectors should all be shot
This tour should have been made up of WP and Cheetah players, not Bulls and Sharks, many debates were actually settled on this tour
1 Dec 2009, 11:03 am
@JL1: This from the two tone wearing RT braai blogger moonlighting at Keo for a semblance of decent inteligent convo. Don;t worry. I know why you keep posting at me. You need something to prick your brain and make you feel alive. It’s okay. Really it is.
1 Dec 2009, 11:04 am
@JL1: Wow. It’s working. I agree with half of your post there.
1 Dec 2009, 11:04 am
@skopskiet: Not true
Morne is coached by Vlok and Pieter Rossouw, both ran the ball when they were playing. Vlok is his big mentor and coach, he stated. It is all about tactics and gameplans
1 Dec 2009, 11:05 am
@rossoneri: No hater, I am suggesting Fransie would have made the big kicks for the chasers. Zane can never do that. He played well on Saturday but can not kick like Fransie. Not ever. Actually he is not as good as Fransie at FB. Not at this stage.
Also Fransie would have got those long range kicks over the posts. If we got our penalties we would have won.
1 Dec 2009, 11:05 am
@Puma: I agree. We also seem to be forgetting that our players is not used to playing in those freezing k@k conditions.
I suspect a case of brain freeze.
I also played rugby and once was subject to a similar scenario.
We played one Saturday very early. The sun was just beginning to break. The field was frosted over and we played barefoot.
We were unbeaten that year, but lost that day to a very inferior team. We just couldn`t get going in that freeze.
Although this was just schoolboy rugby, i think it is relevant. Not an excuse though, because our team is professionals, but still…
1 Dec 2009, 11:05 am
@skopskiet: Skopskiet, you should attend the next course at Jake White’s Winning Ways. Clearly you know very little about a game you seem to love.
1 Dec 2009, 11:08 am
@Puma: Kanko v Spies seems settled
Smit at tighthead in the NH conditions seem settled
Bakkies need a replacement and it is not Bekker
Bekker and Matfield are better centers than Adi – they also play there more often than Adi
1 Dec 2009, 11:09 am
@Puma: So you are confirming that for you Zane must go, and Frans must get sellected, and Morne who actually played ****, must be protected? So Zane must get punished for Morne playing kak?
1 Dec 2009, 11:10 am
@Oubaas2009: I would rather shove a knive in my eyeballs than listen to anything Jake White has to say.
1 Dec 2009, 11:11 am
@Karoolander: We have played in cold before in NZ and England. I think maybe never in fog like that. Could hardly see what was happening due to the fog. That could have also been the problem.
Our lineouts were a mess. We should have known Gert knew our calls and should have changed it. Also why not use one of our other languages we have many. Too many saffas now playing for other countries or coaching. We should have been ready for the lineouts knowing Gert had worked with many of those players. Then I also think we missed Juan at the back a lot also Spies but especially Bakkies.
Fransie at the back in those conditions would have been better too.
1 Dec 2009, 11:13 am
@Puma: Agree yes.
We should be more forward thinking. We tend to push our luck a bit too far. Not respecting the enemy enough?
1 Dec 2009, 11:14 am
@JL1: Skyes should be groomed really he is a 4 and played well. Should have played with the Dirt Trackers. I would have had Sykes on for Bakkies.
1 Dec 2009, 11:14 am
@skopskiet: I have received the answer. Should have known. Fun and games Skop. It’s irresistable.
1 Dec 2009, 11:16 am
@rossoneri: Fantastic, give it a try then.
1 Dec 2009, 11:16 am
@rossoneri: Hater, Zane is a good player and will get better but for the wet conditions. Fransie is far, far better there. He actually was better than Zane playing for the Boks this whole year.
Zane is a good player at FB and will get better. Very good under the high ball but he is not Fransie. He can not kick. We lost something with out having that as a weapon on Saturday.
Okay have to go out for a bit.
1 Dec 2009, 11:18 am
@Karoolander: So you’re back. Makes sense.
1 Dec 2009, 11:19 am
To make any assumptions on what would have happened if Frans Steyn played is very dangerous.
He is one of the most erratic performers in SA rugby – depending on his mood or mindset he can be either sublime or terrible.
Zane was good and solid on Saturday. Conrad Jantjes will also be back next year so I guess Fransie will have to play his rugby in France for a while.
1 Dec 2009, 11:21 am
@Puma: You are avoiding answering my question. Are you saying keep Morne who played **** and get Frans to help Morne, and drop Zane who did his job? = Punish Zane for Morne’s failings.
1 Dec 2009, 11:21 am
Oubaas and JL1
You may think I know little. Well let me tell you I watched Jake White F.up so bad in 2006 and 2007 before Eddy Jones ruk’d him reg. I watched Mallet f.up with De Beer instead of Honibal and Skinstadt instead of Teichmann. And I been watching Pdv sell his principles down the river to John Smit and the senior bloekombome and get done a treat by Ireland and France simply because in this country we just don’t know the meaning of the word ADAPT.
Now I say a lot of things on here to get some of you thinking outside of the narrow confines of your preconceived ideas about what works and what don’t.
Fdp is talented and skillful in certain dimensions and not others. His service to his fly half and back line is pretty dismal and poor. He’s an opportunist individualist but not a composite team player. And much of the poor decision making behind the scrum is down to his narrow set of vision. The game plan that Smit and Matfield and Fdp are working to has been found out long ago already. Kick and chase is passe worked against Bil’s and a burgeoning building Ab team finding its feet.
Our running game has been left in the back shed collecting dust since Pa fell off the bus. Fdp don’t know how to unlock the backline and neither does M. Steyn. And I can tell you categorically for free that Jake White and his Winning Ways don’t have even half a g.dam clue else he would have gotten it right the 4 years he was in charge.
1 Dec 2009, 11:22 am
@rossoneri: Pardon?
What are you reffering to?
1 Dec 2009, 11:23 am
@Karoolander: #129
Did you expect them to throw in the towel after the losses?
A win on Saturday would have salvage the tour. It would have given the Boks and PdV an win record of 66% in tests. After a 100% record on the EOYT last year, even you would have then had to admit that it was a good record. Unfortunately he was let down by the players who could not think for themselves.
You keep on blaming the coaching staff without any reference to the players. Is it because it was mostly BB players that stuffed up on Saturday? Don’t you want to be seen as blaming your own?
It seems to me that you are just like Julius Malema.
1 Dec 2009, 11:29 am
@Robzim: Rob Zane was good but if we had Fransie we could have used him for those long range kicks. He got all of them over in cold NZ remember?
On All Out Rugby they too said Fransie should still have been playing at FB. Select your best always.
Zane is good and never let the team down. Just don’t have that huge boot Fransie has. We missed it on Saturday HUGE.
1 Dec 2009, 11:30 am
@Karoolander: Hahahahahahahaha!
1 Dec 2009, 11:33 am
@rossoneri: 152 – Hater/Litith/Optimus now Rossoneri. I can hardly keep up with all your nic changes.
Morne had a off day he won us just about everything this year. So no I would not get rid of him rather have a extra kicker in the team. Especially one that can kick 60m THAT now is something (Like McCaw said after we beat them in NZ)any team in the world would want in their team.
Not dissing Zane he is a good player but does not have the strength or kicking abilities of Fransie.
1 Dec 2009, 11:34 am
@nama1: You are reaching.
I bet my house that if it was Jake White at the Helm, you and others would sing a different tune.
Let my explain. Let take good old SA as an example. Who would you blame for the lawless behaviour of it`s citizens? That would be the police right? Ja i know it`s not just the one side of the coin, but this is just a quick example in the interest of time.
Do you blame the lowly constables that does`nt give a F… or do you blame their superiors? The guys in charge who drive multi million Masipa Benzes.
I still believe that to get satisfactory results you need to start at the top.
Remember that the players doesn`t select themselves.If the coaches feel intimidated by the players, then maybe they are not the right guys for the job.
We can argue over Div, but surely not over Gary Glitter and ****?
No wait, who appointed them?
1 Dec 2009, 11:34 am
” Many believe he should have received the IRB Player of the Year award, but he lost out to All Blacks skipper Richie McCaw”.
That should read……….”Many in SA believe…..”
Come on Garth.
1 Dec 2009, 11:37 am
@skopskiet: #153
It is all about winning
Jake took soem guys and stuck with them and in 2006 his team had many injured players
PDV has not unearthed any talent yet
1 Dec 2009, 11:38 am
@rossoneri: Did i tell a joke?
1 Dec 2009, 11:39 am
Come now everyone. Boks won just about everything this year. We lost to France, Oz, and Ireland (Don’t count the lost test against the Lions as we had 10 changes there) Now we all getting angry with our team.
All Blacks lost 4 games this year. 3 times to us and once to France. Their public does not diss them. Remember they lost in the 1/4 final of the wc and their supporters were there at the airport with big banners saying “We still love you” Now we can learn from that. Support your team win or lose. We won far more than we lost this year. This was a great year for Bok rugby. If we had lost when we were fit and ready in the middle of the season then there would have been need to worry not now. The players are tired and many injured. They will all be back next year. Look after them rest them proper and we will have them for another two years still.
1 Dec 2009, 11:41 am
@Puma: So your answer is yes then. Punish Zane for Morne’s ****-ups.
1 Dec 2009, 11:41 am
@skopskiet:
So the prodigal sons are returning to Keo?
1 Dec 2009, 11:43 am
@skopskiet: FdP is not perfect by any stretch of the imagination. He is either on song or totally off the mark. He frustrated me many a time.
What you say does have some merit. I believe he still needs to develop his allround game.
He did however reach incredible heights in his career.But i will not write him off just yet.
1 Dec 2009, 11:45 am
@Puma: So your answer is yes then. Zane must be punished for Morne’s failings and Frans who is suspect and inconsistent at best, must be tried at FB, to cover for Morne.
You have faith in Frans to replace an in form Zane, but not enough faith in his “great kicking”, for him to replace an out of form Morne at Flyhalf.
1 Dec 2009, 11:45 am
@Puma: you are arguably the most biased blogger on this site, closely followed by Tacitus and your posts are mind numbing to say the least. What is Francois Steyn’s kicking average beyond halfway line? What is Francois Steyn’s touch finding average over the whole year?
I can tell you now that Zane’s far much more accurate than Francois. I am not knocking Francois, he is an incredible player and a mean tackler but your unrelenting and blind bias is ridiculous, the kid had one good game in. Last week it was Jean Deysel, the week before it was Ryan Kankowski, it seems like every Sharks player to you is the BEST in the world, well sir you are wrong.
1 Dec 2009, 11:46 am
@cane: It would seem so. Buckle up.
1 Dec 2009, 11:46 am
bizarre debate this…. morne was anything but one-dimensionsal at the bulls this year… the bulls backline coach is an advocate of attacking rugby…also when came to the bulls steyn was not really a kicking fly-half in fact it was identified as a weakness in his game… same with liefling, I watched that guy play craven week and he was an outstanding attacking prospect…
the problem at the moment is not that a player sare one dimensional it is that they are slow to adapt… look at the match vs australia at perth we carved them to pieces… but that is because we went into the match with that objective…the players need to learn to be more flexible in their approach…
the problem on saturday was not so much the gameplan as the execution of it…
1 Dec 2009, 11:47 am
@Karoolander: You are it. Pay attention.
1 Dec 2009, 11:52 am
@Fudge Mabeta:
Good day Fudge.
1 Dec 2009, 11:52 am
@rossoneri:
I think Skoppies assertion that Karoolander is Pietman, is incorrect.
Piet would never denigrate WP.
1 Dec 2009, 11:54 am
@cane:
That’s what you think.
He spent most of the final days of the CC denigrating WP.
1 Dec 2009, 11:56 am
@cane: Hahahahahahha. Ofcourse he would. Ask Dawn. You’re a funny guy Cane.
1 Dec 2009, 11:56 am
@JL1: #161
“PDV has not unearthed any talent yet”
Heinrich Brussow?
Beast?
Morne Steyn?
Zane?
They all started playing international rugby the past two years. Under his watch. you don’t regard them as talents?
1 Dec 2009, 11:57 am
@cane: Correct Sir.
There is no Pietman or Piet or anything close in my ID book.
Guess the egg is on their faces AGAIN. Sigh….
1 Dec 2009, 11:58 am
frans steyn was pretty consistent at full back the entire season actually…I wonder what stats there are that give credence to the notion that kirchener is “more accurate” than steyn… more accurate at what I wonder…
1 Dec 2009, 11:59 am
@skopskiet:
I don’t understand how you can talk about FDP’s “narrow set of vision and poor decision making”?
The man has created so many tries for us using exactly those attributes. His countless tries and the tries he’s setup through blindside breaks, it was his vision that allowed him to spot those gaps? His quick decision on penalities where’s he’s spotted a gap and kicked the ball straight into space for Habana to pick up and score before the oppostion even had time to blink?
His try count alone and that of tries he has personally setup would surely put an end to any speculation on his vision or decision making?
I agree he is going way overboard with these box kicks, but as you said PDV sold his soul long ago and FDP although capable of playing in many different ways, is playing to a gameplan he’s been instructed to play to.
1 Dec 2009, 11:59 am
@Fudge Mabeta: No never ever said that Kanko had a good game on this eoyt. Deysel came on after half time in the Italy game and he had a great game. I am thinking about South Africa now not Sharks. Some play for Sharks but I also like many of the Bulls players. Brussow too brilliant and he is a Cheetah. Stop talking silly now. I am talking about South African players not which franchise they come from. I want the best playing.
Fransie was great in the wc playing inside centre and then after messed about. Yes messed about by the Sharks too. Then the Boks. Playing from the bench different postions. Finally playing FB where he should have played all along. He played very well there for the Boks.
Zane has not let the team down. Zane played well. He just does not have that huge boot of Fransie. It was a great weapon for us to have. If you cant see that well so be it.
Fransie no longer a Shark mate. He plays for Metro so wont be a Bok either. Zane will the the Bok FB next year too. He will get better but will never be able to kick for goal. We had that something extra there with Fransie.
If Fransie played Saturday we may have won. Some of those penalties were just too far for Morne. Fransie has the boot for those. Remember 60m in NZ? Brilliant. I would have wanted him in the team the Bok team even if he played for WP/Bulls/Cheetahs/Lions or Metro. Select the best always.
1 Dec 2009, 12:00 pm
@skopskiet: Cheer up sport.
1 Dec 2009, 12:00 pm
@Karoolander: nice try, but this post exposed you.
159. Karoolander :
December 1st, 2009 at 11:34 am
@nama1: You are reaching.
I bet my house that if it was Jake White at the Helm, you and others would sing a different tune.
Let my explain. Let take good old SA as an example. Who would you blame for the lawless behaviour of it`s citizens? That would be the police right? Ja i know it`s not just the one side of the coin, but this is just a quick example in the interest of time.
Do you blame the lowly constables that does`nt give a F… or do you blame their superiors? The guys in charge who drive multi million Masipa Benzes.
I still believe that to get satisfactory results you need to start at the top.
Remember that the players doesn`t select themselves.If the coaches feel intimidated by the players, then maybe they are not the right guys for the job.
We can argue over Div, but surely not over Gary Glitter and ****?
No wait, who appointed them?
1 Dec 2009, 12:02 pm
@Puma: I bet you were one of those guys in 2008 who were crying for Fransie to be a Flyhalf.
1 Dec 2009, 12:02 pm
It seems that Pietman is quite the Legend around these part of the woods….
1 Dec 2009, 12:03 pm
@cane: He swapped allegiance to the winning Bulls, I wonder who he will support if the Bulls start losing
1 Dec 2009, 12:03 pm
@cane: Howzit Cane, You are very right my friend. Piet is now where near internet this week. In a tiny little place in the wilderness this week with no phones or internet. He told us on his post on the otherside he wont be able to post for a while now as that is where he will be for this week maybe next.
So you spot on that is not Piet.
1 Dec 2009, 12:03 pm
@skopskiet: 5 for a try, 3 for a conversion, 2 for a droppie or a penalty.
1 Dec 2009, 12:03 pm
@rossoneri: Huh?
What, are you Piet Byleveld?
What the f… are you on about?
1 Dec 2009, 12:04 pm
now = no
1 Dec 2009, 12:06 pm
@gunther: Passing the ball. Fransie ball hogger par excellance. In just that skill alone, Zane beats him.
1 Dec 2009, 12:08 pm
@Dawn: hello dawn
1 Dec 2009, 12:08 pm
@Karoolander: Another exposing post. Praat maar afrikaans and se maar al die vuilbek goed wat jy vrek om the se.
1 Dec 2009, 12:08 pm
Sorry Keonites if i got your hopes up for nothing today.
I say again, i am not PIETMAN.
That desperation i was talkig about earlier seems to surface.
1 Dec 2009, 12:09 pm
@TheTackler: no. 6 for a try, 3 for a conversion and penalty, and 1 for a drop.
1 Dec 2009, 12:10 pm
@rossoneri: So what , you got a hard on for this Pietman character?
1 Dec 2009, 12:10 pm
People, people, people!!
They were just TOO COLD!
I got cold just WATCHING!!
@Fudge Mabeta:
Fudge … don’t you agree it was just too cold at Croke.
1 Dec 2009, 12:11 pm
Here;s what i cant understand from the Blou Bul patroon detractors.
When they were winning the 3N this year, they were praised for total rugby with FdP and Steyn at flyhalf and coached by Pieter Rossouw, that was heralded as the best thing since slaptjips.
Now apparently the blou buls play a dom doos patroon, with these selfsame halfbacks.
well which is it?
The only way to decrease teh kicking is to reduce penalties both in value (1 point) and in frequency (let anything go at scrum and breakdown removing the subjectivity)
1 Dec 2009, 12:12 pm
@Sharksgirl:184
He apparently left WP because of Luke’s presence there. I guess next year he’ll be a WP supporter again.
Don’t think Karoolander is him though. Isn’t he from the Westcoast?
1 Dec 2009, 12:12 pm
3N = S14
1 Dec 2009, 12:13 pm
See it is easy to spot a keonite that got owned on this blog.
Example, Namakwalander disappear and later surfaces as Nama1.
You guys leave very good evidence for tracking and exposing.
1 Dec 2009, 12:13 pm
even i know Pietman is a dOOs…
1 Dec 2009, 12:14 pm
@Fudge Mabeta: Amen.
1 Dec 2009, 12:16 pm
Skopskiet they just messing around with you so take it with a pinch of salt.
1 Dec 2009, 12:17 pm
@TheTackler:
good idea, that would set the cat amongst the pigeons, they got to do something, these free bee three pointers are killing the game stone dead. Ping Pong gaining Grounds is what its all about.
@Puma:
Probably not ou Piet but Karoolander is one of the prodigal sons nevertheless.
We got to get away from this idea that we missing this one or that one if they not available. Rugby is a TEAM sport not an individualist glory hunting exercise. If F.Steyn or JdV or BJ Botha ain’t around there should be someone here to take their place. This hankering for particular individuals to bale us out our misery with their specific set of perfected skills is bunkum.
We got plenty talent where the FdP’s and the F.Steyns or J.Smits and V.Matfields came from. Plenty of it oozing out the system. Our problem here is we just love to create hero’s and villains.. its a serious flaw in the make up of our lack of composure under pressure.
Pienaar shgould never have been destroyed in confidence the way he has. There are some far better distributing scrum halves around other than FdP who would have had this backline pumping with go forward momentum long time back if we weren’t so stuck on individual ‘Brilliance’.
Its rubbish, the issue is when M.Steyn can’t pull off miracle 50 or 60 mt. hail Mary penalties then we all of a sudden go to pieces. If this stupid kicking game weren’t made into the holy grail that it is, pienaar would still be running the backline probably and we might be seeing a whole lot more tries being scored.
PdV must get back on the bus he set out on, he has to ditch this ou doos idiotic strategy that the senior bloekombome mutineed about. If we cannot develop the game past this kick and chase singular dimensionality then we heading for no mans land.
1 Dec 2009, 12:19 pm
Eish.
Ok/ lets clear up the confusion.
I was previously Puppet Obama.
See now?
1 Dec 2009, 12:20 pm
@rossoneri: NO Grant10 was and yes he got me thinking Fransie could be. Seeing Fransie play there once was enough for me, went back to what I had thought and many others. He is a FB a natural FB. Can also play very well at inside centre too.
Well he is at Metro now so we wont have him playing for Boks so all this wishing he was there from me will have to be put on hold. He wont get selected while playing overseas.
1 Dec 2009, 12:21 pm
@nama1: Hell I cannot remember Nama1 I just remember losing all respect for him, when he changed allegiance so easily. Maybe I am just too stubborn by half, but I don’t believe in fairweather fans.
1 Dec 2009, 12:22 pm
There’s nothing like peaches and cream to make a man forget the eoyt.
1 Dec 2009, 12:25 pm
The Lions are gathering folks, gathering. We have even included those would be deserters Ludik and Alberts.
Roar! Read and weep.
Auto & General Super 14 Lions Squad Assembles
The 2010 Auto & General Super 14 Lions training squad reassembled on Monday, 2 November 2009. After a positive and encouraging address from GLRU President, Kevin de Klerk and newly appointed Director of Rugby, **** Muir, the squad began their first gym session.
The training squad selected for the 2010 Vodacom Super 14 is as follows:
Forwards:
JC Janse van Rensburg
Kevin Buys
Wayne Swart
Lawrence Sephaka
Ross Geldenhuys
Charl de Plessis
Hans van Dyk
Derek Harwood
Nico Luus
Wouter Moore
Franco van der Merwe
Jannes Labuschagne
Jacques Lombaard
Jeffrey Taljaard
Willem Alberts
Cobus Grobbelaar
Jonathan Mokuena
Derick Minnie
Johan van Deventer
Robert Kruger
Danie Crous
Thuliphatu Marole
Warren Whiteley
Justin Wheeler
Stephan Kruger
Mina Nassif
Backs:
Alex Kock
Chris Jonck
Herkie Kruger
Ruan Boshoff
Divan Kotze
Jody Rose
Allistair Siegelaar
Dusty Noble
Michael Killian
Henno Mentz
Johan Jackson
Wigan Pekeur
Jannie Boshoff
Justin St Jerry
Pieter Engelbrecht
Alwyn Hollenbach
Doppies la Grange
Rouan Cloete
Shandre Frolick
Warren van Rooyen
Walter Venter
Marius Delport
Deon van Rensburg
Burton Francis
Three players from the Leopards, and two from the Pumas will also be joining the squad, but they will only arrive on Monday, 16 November 2009, due to a two week break after their last match.
The players joining the Auto & General Super 14 Lions are:
Leopards:
Draad Luide
Ryno Landman
Thabo Mamojela
Pumas:
Marius Coetzer
Hannes Franklin
The two Lions Springbok players who are currently with the Boks, Earl Rose and Heinke van der Merwe, will join the squad in December.
Todd Clever has been released to play for the USA in their World Cup qualifying matches and will join the Auto & General Super 14 Lions on the 4th January 2010.
The players’ currently injured/in rehabilitation will join the squad as soon as they are declared fit and ready.
Louis Ludik – 3 months
Jano Vermaak – 2/3 months
Earl Lewis – Rehabilitation for 2/3 weeks
Gert Muller – Rehabilitation for 6/8 weeks
Tonderai Chavhanga – Rehabilitation for 3/4 weeks
Johan Snyman – 3/4 months
Whilst **** Muir, Director of Rugby, is overseas with the Springbok team, Johan Ackermann, Hans Coetzee and Dr. Gerhard Jordaan will act as care taker coaches.
1 Dec 2009, 12:25 pm
Its OK wez not much gets my bones rattled or the skin off my nose except when blind men run our rugby into the ground. Like J.Smit and V.Matfield allowed it to happen on Saturday. They allowed Fdp and M.Steyn to practically ruin an entire team effort by killing the game at the first base offload. Ball didn’t reach the centers about 80% of the time.
Blou BHul patroon is deadsville, get a handle around it, its going nowhere very fast.
1 Dec 2009, 12:28 pm
@Karoolander: #199
Sorry Karoo, you’re wrong.
Go to the archives, read some of his posts and compare us.
Maybe Namakwalander is now this new guy Namakwalanner.
1 Dec 2009, 12:29 pm
ag what a load of kak.
they’ll be playing the powder puff WP stuff and we go exactly the way we were headed before JW came on the scene.
1 Dec 2009, 12:34 pm
@RedLion: They my 2nd team so hoping Lions can do well next year. Have a feeling 2010 could be good for them.
Actually we need all our franchise teams to be strong. Better for Springbok rugby.
Good Luck to the Lions for next year.
1 Dec 2009, 12:35 pm
@nama1: Hehe. CONFUSION seems to be the order today.
No Namakwalanner became Karoolander. That is me. It was made clear though. They complained about the Namakwalanner nic so i had no objection changing.
Only post a total of maybe 5 under that nic.
So what happened to the original Namakwalander?
Cause i can swear that you are the same reading through your posts.
1 Dec 2009, 12:37 pm
which powder puff WP stuff you referring, the stuff that killed off the Blou Bulle twice in the CC and then almost in the semi’s for M.Steyn to save their one dimensional asses once again, just like he saved the Bok’s vs Lions and the Boks again vs AB’s
Rely on this kak all you like, going nowhere in a hurry as France and Ireland just showed them.
Last time we looked like something was happening in our game was Ellis Park and Twickenham 2008 with a couple glimpses in first half first test BiL’s tour and first half Perth this year. Rest of the time we on the back foot kicking penalties to save face and ***.
Time to switch codes and go for broke or go down like a whimpering bunch of kicking drones.
1 Dec 2009, 12:39 pm
@skopskiet: Sorry Skop.
Killed off the Blou Bulle twice in CC?
I counted just one.
Bulls klapped WP 3-1 this year.
1 Dec 2009, 12:41 pm
203 – Skop, I agree with Kobus and G.Wright on ‘All Out Rugby’ they both said we must select the best. If that means selecting some of our overseas players we have to do it.
I would say limit it to 3. Otherwise we will have all our best heading north next year.
It happened this eoyt but a bit too late. If we had selected BJ, JdV and also Frans from the start. Well who knows how it would have ended.
Our Dirt Trackers should have been our 2nd best selected. It was not we missed the boat there. Don’t care what the coaches say. Saying now they can see how those could play and know what the left behind at home. How do we know that Vermeualen, Mapoe, WP.Nel many others that I rate would have handled those conditions? They are superb here but we should have sent them over to play in the Dirt Trackers and had look how they could play against some strong teams and in the wet and cold.
Anyhow. I have to go out now. Cheers all.
1 Dec 2009, 12:42 pm
WP aint won sweet FA in ages, the same as the Lions, they run and attack beautiful and come stone last.
CC counts for nothing, the S14 is the competition, besides neither WP or the Lions have any CC silverware of late and there;s a reason for that.
Rassie Erasmus is constantly fighting a battle to make showponies into grafters – he may just have got it rightt this year – but its not WP natural way.
They;re the artists, they win f-all, but great artists.
1 Dec 2009, 12:42 pm
Has anyone actually considered why the kick and chase was the wrong tactic for the NH, apart from the fact that it didn’t work?
The heavier NH grounds ensures that the chasers are nowhere near as fast as they are on the harder grounds, which means that they’ll be a touch slower in reaching the catcher. More importantly, though, is that for it to succeed, our forwards need to get to the breakdown fast enough to support the tackler. Now, that’s asking a lot from a pack that’s already exhausted at the EOY, especially when they’re being asked to chase the ball again and again.
I’m not claiming that’s the sole reason for the loss, but I’m pretty certain that’s why the tactic was far less effective.
Once we’d broken their line and scored the first try, we should have continued to attack them out wide whilst the doubt about their defence was still in their minds. Instead of capitalising on the psychological advantage our backs had created we sat back and gave them the possession to compose themselves and launch counter attacks.
JS might be a brilliant captain regarding rallying his troops, but I get the feeling that his overall tactical awareness is lacking.
1 Dec 2009, 12:43 pm
@Karoolander: 213
We may agree on most points regarding the Boks/management of rugby but I can assure you, I’m not him.
Hint: His use of the queens language.
1 Dec 2009, 12:45 pm
@nama1: Ok then.
You are not him and i am neither.
1 Dec 2009, 12:47 pm
the kick n chase, was not the original successful gameplan, it is used whenever the Boks want an easy way out, when they dont want to bust a gut at teh collisions or feel they are losing these. In which case, they should rather stay on the beacj and get some tightforwards in who are willing to play this game.
If you dont win the breakdown collisions, you can kiss your arse goodbye regardless if you have a winning scrum, fetcher or running halfbacks.
1 Dec 2009, 12:54 pm
@cab: yeah absolutely correct.
I thought Burger was nowhere Juan was badly missed. Smitty has to be retire now and Smith should take the over the captaincy.
Meanwhile Matfield longed for his stable partner Bakkies and that monster Alberts would have been a better bet at 8 than old Danie who rightly started ahead of that show pony CanCowsSki.
Just a few random thoughts.
1 Dec 2009, 12:54 pm
Rugby is a total onslaught sport, you most certainly don’t need degrees in roocket science to understand it, all you got to do is open your eyes and take note. One dimensional drone rugby where individuals go bashing headlong into opposition rewards nothing, like White found out through 2006 and 07. When he was shown the trick is work the spaces not the collisions thats when we started reaping some results.
Kick and chase is effective in minimal doses, not 90% of the game plan. What was so palpably obvious to me Saturday was how easy it was to score against Ireland, piss easy piece of old tacky cake, yet we made such a f’ng mountain out of their little mole hill and proceeded to stuff it up wholesale by playing right into their hands.
FdP and M.Steyn systematically killed that game stone cold dead within 30 minutes of the first half. I watched in dumb struck amazement how they simply did not have a g’damn clue about wtf to actually do about proceedings and then waited till 75th minute to suddenly kick the game into life.
What utter dumb doos idiocy is this. Not a g’damn hope of a clue in their dead beat heads as to how to win the game when its as easy as old piss pie. All they had to do from first kick off was hold onto ball keep it in hand and play the back line and we would have walked that test like a piece of candy from a baby.
Front row was cooking, line outs were disrupted, keep the damn ball in play and run. Not a frigin hope in hell would Ireland have stood half a chance. FdP and M.Steyn systematically handed that test win to BOD and co. On a Gilt Edged Plate!
1 Dec 2009, 12:59 pm
@RedLion:
Mina Nassif
the egyptian bodybulder
the moving pyramid
the sphynx in boots..
what language will the lineout calls be in?
is there an afrikaans egyptian phrasebook?
I thought he had just asked to train with the squad…now he is in it…. jeepers its enough to make a fella reach for his old boots and dust them off…maybe if i ask to train with the squad they will pick me…
somebody turn the lights off at ellis park…
1 Dec 2009, 12:59 pm
it is a very simmple game, and neither do you need artistic genius to appreciate it – its about physical domination.
dominate the main aspect of play, the collisions, and you win more often than not.
1 Dec 2009, 13:03 pm
@nama1: #175
Brussouw was in only because of an injury to Schalla, Morne in because Pienaars injury, Beast on form and Kirchner because Percy left
1 Dec 2009, 13:03 pm
we won the collisions and the tight scrums but kicked all possession away. what was left for us to do was tackle twice for every time they tackled us. Which dumb *** delinquent rugby idiot kicks his possession away. Only Jake White and John Smit rugby fundi losing ways protagonists. Idiocy of the highest degree.
Piss *** piece of pie tacky we would have CREAMED Ireland with simply one instruction only. DONT KICK THE BALL!! If that simple non rocket scientific deduction was made in the first 10 minutes there would have only been ONE team in this game and it would certainly not have been Ireland. That is for 100% sure.
1 Dec 2009, 13:08 pm
@skopskiet:
Good have done with old Harry Viljoen as coach with his classic “You are not allowed to kick the ball under any circumstances” instructions to his bok team of old.
1 Dec 2009, 13:08 pm
@gunther:
I hope you’ve been keeping your old boots nicely dubbined?
1 Dec 2009, 13:11 pm
@skopskiet: here is something for you interest skop…
Peter’s expansive delusion
This entry was posted on Monday, August 25th, 2008
Peter de Villiers needs to revisit the statistics before continuing his criticism of the Springboks under former coach Jake White.
De Villiers has consistently criticised the conservative approach of the Springboks under by his predecessor and has made a point of telling the rugby world that he wants to move as a far as possible away from that approach and develop a team who play an expansive brand of rugby.
White and his coaching staff acknowledged their limitations in the backline and never made a secret of the fact that they were playing to their strengths in the forwards. Yet when comparing De Villiers and White’s try-scoring records after five Tri-Nations Tests, De Villiers’ criticism is exposed as lacking substance.
White’s conservative Springboks registered 13 tries in four Tri-Nations Tests in 2004 (his first year in charge). De Villiers’ expansive Springboks have scored five in five – two of which came against an Australia side who were in third gear, confident they had done enough to secure the victory at Kings Park on Saturday.
Yet De Villiers continues posture like the divinely appointed saviour of South African rugby. He did admit that God tells him who to select after all. It seems that in his mind he will lead South Africa into rugby’s promised land, where pounding up through the phases is punishable by death and an extravagant tackle offload is rewarded with eternal life.
De Viliers’ philosophy shuns rigid structure – a feature of White’s preferred style – for a more instinctive approach where the players are encouraged to “play what’s in front of them” and break down defensive lines through tackle offloads. Forwards are expected have the handling skills and spatial awareness of backs, sacrificing their fundamental tasks – ruck cleaning being the most notable – in pursuit of tries and an entertaining brand of rugby.
White’s approach feature patient phase-play, territorial dominance gained primarily through the boots of Percy Montgomery and Fourie du Preez, dominance at the tackle point and placed a massive emphasis on bossing the set phases.
It was mind-numbingly boring at times but few would argue that it was effective. A world cup trophy bears testament to this.
What De Villiers fails to grasp is that his talented group of players find a sense of security in structure. It plays to their conservative mindset and takes the pressure off them to make their own decisions thereby lessening their fear of failure. Springbok rugby is crying out for a pragmatic coach who acknowledges the strengths of his squad and seeks to maximise those.
Sadly, because Saru chose to overlook rugby credentials as a criteria when selecting their coach, that man is in pre-season preparing his charges to face teams like Gloucester and Wasps when he should be drilling the Springboks for a Test against Australia.
By Ryan Vrede
This entry was posted on Monday, August 25th, 2008
1 Dec 2009, 13:11 pm
but thats exactly why the boks did not want to keep the ball in play – they were getting done at the breakdown, which is precisely why it was being hoisted.
if brute force is applied effectively there is not a damn thing the oppo can do, which is what england of 2002/3 showed to remarkable effect and what every BB team under burrman van syl showed with a power pack and a kicking 10.
If that pack is able to dominate the setpiences, even more dominant, and if they able to affect turnovers, even more so, and if they have a backline able to run in tries even more so.
But the fundamental is to play to your strengths, and ours in SA is big men. YOu want to play a midget oriented artisitic showpiece go for it, then wonder what happens to WP and Lions every S14.
1 Dec 2009, 13:20 pm
@Yetirat:LOL! Fourie and Morne would have had a nervous break down on Saturday if Harry was around with his rugga plan. It seemed the only thing they wanted to do is kick, kick, kick.
1 Dec 2009, 13:20 pm
@cab:
C’mon Cab. You’re confusing kicking away possession with retaining it. What’s the point of dominating the rucks and mauls in order to gain possession, if you immediately kick it away? The whole point of gaining possession is to use it, not waste it.
1 Dec 2009, 13:25 pm
@JL1: #226
Didn’t HB toured with the Boks last year? Made a little cameo appearance in one of the test matches if I remember correctly or are my mind playing games with me?
“Beast on form”…your claim would have make sense then if PdV DID NOT select him.
“Kirchner because Percy left”… you wanted him to select Zane ahead of Percy or what? Of course Zane only got selected after Percy left. How is that prove that PdV cannot identify talent?
1 Dec 2009, 13:25 pm
Tries scored this year
Walabies 29 in 14 tests
All Blacks 25 in 14 Tests
Springboks 21 in 12 Tests
Tries conceded
Walabies 15 in 14 tests
All Blacks 11 in 14 Tests
Springboks 20 in 12 Tests
1 Dec 2009, 13:27 pm
@Transformation: And there you have it. From the Jake White agenda driven Ryan Vrede’s pen. Pdv is trying to make the rugga attractive and attacking, but the players “want the pressure off them”, as they do not want to make decisions on the pitch.
1 Dec 2009, 13:27 pm
Talking nonsense no one is advocating playing midget twinkle toe rugby and no one is advocating not contesting the breakdown. The simple deduction is as simple as old pie. I am telling you without even a shadow of a doubt that had Fdp and M. Steyn distributed the ball to the back line we would have walked this test in our sleep. Not even a second thought about it. This hoisting the ball in the air is the very thing that killed us. Nothing else. Not collisions or line outs or place kicks missed. The single and only reason we lost on Saturday is because we did not vary our play and we kicked 90% possession AWAY!
This is how basically simple it is. Fdp read the play WRONG! this genius of a rugby tactical brain behind the scrum got it emphatically WRONG and so did his fly half. This kicking the ball AWAY Is what resulted in our loss. Nothing whatsoever else. Not breakdowns or anything else except playing WITHOUT THE BALL ****.
Stop looking for dom doos reasons for our poor tactics the kick and chase game is a NO NO in certain conditions and in fact if we don’t start getting away from it expect one hell of a lot more losses rather than wins.
1 Dec 2009, 13:28 pm
@David:
the point with the hoist is to play in the oppos danger zone with the penalty laws as they are, they dont want to be turned over or penalised or lose breakdown in their own half, i hate it also, but it becomes overly used when the Boks are being beaten at the collisions.
watch the 2nd half when the Boks intensity dropped off and virtually every time the boks took the vball in the irish banged them back and/or stole outmuscled the ball. the ball they did win was going backward. the scrums were won, but thats not an ideal backline attackling platform like multiphase ruck play where gaps appear and defenses are less structured.
The Boks main strength is their intensity at the breakdown colliusion point, they normally blast oppo packs off the park, but it catches up with them in the 2nd half – and this was expounded by the EOY tour where they were buhhered.
1 Dec 2009, 13:30 pm
@nama1: But why did it take suspensions and injuries before he was selected…that is a concern, the same applied to Steyn, surely someone should step up and say, we got our initial selection wrong..
1 Dec 2009, 13:37 pm
@cab:
Did you read my previous post regarding our forwards having to chase to the breakdown in heavy NH conditions? There’s no way they could consistently support the tackler/chaser with the required intensity.
1 Dec 2009, 13:40 pm
@skopskiet:
i disagree, the reason we lost the test was losing the breakdown collisions in the 2nd half.
but you are welcome to see it your own way, does not make it right. yours is also just an opinion like mine.
what i want to know tho uis where is the evidence to support your opinion?
i mean FDP and the bull patroon has resulted in the hoghest honrours.
in fact, the evidence points in completely the opposite direction to your claims that are made with such absolute certgainty, where everyone is fools not to see it.
just who is the dom doos and close-minded ppl here?
1 Dec 2009, 13:43 pm
@rossoneri:
Yeah it’s a tricky one.
I kind of agree with both Cab and Skopskiet.
We did play into Irelands’ hands by handing them possession with all those kicks, worst of all when it became clear they were not working as an attacking method and we continued, but when we do swing the ball out wide our forwards seem incapable of maintaining possession through proper ruck work anyway. So then the decision comes to “shall we hand over possession 20 meters up field or chance it with our backs and see if they break the line or stand the chance of losing possession 5m over the advantage line?
1 Dec 2009, 13:44 pm
@David:
i think you are right that the NH conditions are very different and we should adopt our game plan and vary it alot more especially with the outside backs we have. However, i believe the over abundane of kick n chase is a symptom of when our pack starts to lose the collisions and not getting the correct kind of ball to attack off.
1 Dec 2009, 13:45 pm
@JL1:
In a squad system, there’s a very definate pecking order. Steyn wasn’t even in the squad prior to the S14, and if it wasn’t for Ruans wayward goal kicking, he’d still be the reserve 10. Once we’d decided on the kick and chase approach a reliable goal kicker became a vital part of the game plan.
1 Dec 2009, 13:48 pm
@cab: Ignore him CAB, he thinks he is a rugby analyst that knows better than anyone else. I think it is the opposite. What I want to know from you is, what is happening in the collisions? We saw it against France and now again against Ireland. The refs when reffing up north don’t seem to stop the tacklers (defending team) rolling over the ball carrier and totally killing or stealing the ball whilst lying on it. In fact we saw many penalties against SA for going off our feet while in possession, but I can’t seem to remember Ireland getting pinged for it in defense. This is why I think the “dumb dooses” were kicking up and unders, they were losing the lineouts and getting penalised at the tackle point. Ultimately frustrating them, very little oppertunity to do anything else. In fact look at the last ruck where we got penalised. Dodgy?
1 Dec 2009, 13:50 pm
@Ratel Brussow (MSIUR):
skop makes good points, but its these wholesale changes said with absolute certainty i;ve never understood. and the basic trend whenever we lose is to blame the old war horses. i mean ****, have these guys not done reasonasbly well?
1 Dec 2009, 13:51 pm
@David: #244
Tri-nations the strategy was fine-kick and chase
NH tour they should have given the ball air and ran them ragged
he pecking order means nothing
THe SA A team should be the feeder, where are those players
Makhu was the pecking order 2nd second choice, also nowhere
This tour had no plan behind what they wanted to achieve other than now knowing Kankaksi made his name gat and is not a test level player and Adi Jacobs is also not good enough
1 Dec 2009, 13:54 pm
so, where are we at today gentlemen?
1 Dec 2009, 13:55 pm
@Ratel Brussow (MSIUR):
your guess on the collisions is as good as mine, but i think its a case of committment, metnal and physical, and am not sure the Boks were nearly as primed in this respect as they were for the BIL Series and the 3N. Coach De Villiers targetted the 3N and AB and Perth game in particular, and it showed imo. I dont know if its possible to maintain that level of intensity, esp in a year like this one, and so i would say to pick an alternative side for the EOY tour with alternative tactics which will also keep all the SA punters happy at seeing new hungry talent come thru and we can see results.
1 Dec 2009, 13:55 pm
How easy did Schalk score from a simple one two three ball down the back line draw the opposition pass into space easy as pie try. Simple as old tack nothing to it. Yet we proceeded to stuff it up into the air like nobody’s business thereafter. The kicking and hoisting and chase game is WRONG and was explicitly Wrong for Saturday plus it was palpably obvious just how WRONG it was after just 10 minutes on the field. Yet we couldn’t switch. Not between all these highly experienced World cup winning brilliant strategists could even one of Smit or Matfield or Du Preez or Burger fathom we losing this game by playing this dumb *** rubbish. SWITCH IT!
You seriously don’t need to be a brain surgeon to see that much. Idiocy of the utmost. Was watching these fools persist time and again with the same ridiculous nonsense. Set piece after set piece or even when winning it in the loose, boom up in the air it goes again straight into Kearney’s or Bowe’s or Bod’s grateful hands. Stupidity personified dom doos pathetic strategy that simply DONT WORK. not even at the best of times let alone up there in their own freezing back yard. STUPIDITY thats all it is nothing else. Don’t deserve to win when you simply that pathetically THICK.
1 Dec 2009, 13:56 pm
@cab:
I agree with you, there. Against Ireland after the first try, we then tired out our forwards with the constant chasing. My fear is, that by playing for mistakes by our opponents as a game plan, our backs lose their attacking instincts and rhythmn. Something that Jake battled with. What starts out as an attacking defence becomes a fear of attack.
When a team is so aware of capitalising on their opponents mistakes as a tactic, it’s only natural that they’d also develop an acute fear of making them themselves.
1 Dec 2009, 13:58 pm
@cab: cab don’t be daft mate, how is it a “dangerzone” when rob kearney is gobbling up everything and running @ us @ full pace & offloading to BoD who also breaks a few tackles and gets over the advantage line?
australia did the same thing to wales over the weekend. Do yourself a favour, go and watch new zealand’s second try scored by mils muliaina. he collects the ball from an up an under, runs it, off-loads to snakey who sends it wide to sivi who motors past the defensive line, fakes a kick pulls the ball to himself, fakes another kick (all of this done @ breakneck speed) & draws the cover defense then offloads to mills who is clear cut to home!
1 Dec 2009, 14:03 pm
nobody call me any names today please.
i am in a fine mood.
1 Dec 2009, 14:05 pm
@Transformation:
when i say dangerzone i am roughly talking about the field which is territorially divided into zones where teams do not want to see possesion turned or penalised.
the quality of the fullback has nothing to do with that and yes kearney is one of the best, he’s not dissimilar to andre joubert actually with that booming left torpedo.
comparing nz to us, is crazy, we have nz taped and love nothing better when mils runs it back – what we can do tho is watch how nz seem to cut thru these NH teams, which does involved their offload game which pdv also encouraged, but additonally the kiwis are winning their collisions, easily. i dont know if its mental or physical but they dominate upfront on these tours.
1 Dec 2009, 14:07 pm
@JL1: 239
All coaches, in all sports, have a pecking order. I’m sure if you go to PdV right now, he will be able to show you on his laptop who he regards as the best player in every position, who is 2nd, 3rd, 4th etc.
Now if he regarded Schalk as his best no.6 with HB the 2nd best, it only make sense that HB will only get a chance when Schalk is injured or suspended. It is than up to HB to prove to PdV that he must actually be first choice no.6 and not Schalk (like he did). The same would apply to Morne Steyn vs Ruan Pienaar.
Btw, did you regard HB as better than Scalk at the beginning of the season?
Hindsight can be a ***** sometimes.
1 Dec 2009, 14:07 pm
@Transformation: running rugby.
we dont have the flyhalf for it imo.
and yes, yes bulls fans, he has been great. thanks for all the penalties morne, but when you start missing them boykie, it is time for someone else.
ruan seems to evoke too much emotion from everyone (imo still the top flyhalf in south africa) so lets try JL Potgieter or……..uhm……earl rose?
1 Dec 2009, 14:08 pm
@rangerman:
ar*ehole.
1 Dec 2009, 14:08 pm
in fact, the kiwis well and truly bliksem the other packs.
perhaps the kiwis are the only team we get up for?
1 Dec 2009, 14:10 pm
Interestingly, according to Rugby Statsguru, Fourie du Preez only kicked the ball 8 times, and passed it 56 times. Clearly, most of his passes went to the loose forwards rather than the backline.
1 Dec 2009, 14:10 pm
when was the last time the springboks have strung more than 10 phases in a match? Pdv and his players have been sprouting that we’re world leaders with this kick & chase game plan, did they think the rest of the world wasn’t going to sit up & analyse it so as to negate it?
It is stupidity to continuosly kick & chase for more than 40 minutes of a game when the opposition is not conceeding any penalties from your kicking.
1 Dec 2009, 14:11 pm
very astute analysis by many of you above.
David, i think the “tiring the forwards out on heavy NH fields” is spot on.
but like so many bloggers, i can only wonder why our coaching staff didnt spot this as a possibility when all we have heard about before the test was “fatigue”?
and why didnt our captain or senior players respond with a changed gameplan when they could see it wasnt working (kick and chase, interminably…)?
1 Dec 2009, 14:11 pm
**** man certain things are just simply patently obvious like Fdp and M. Steyn f.ng up our chances on Saturday by reading the strategy totally wrong and kicking everything away.
Talk you highfalutin theories around breakdown dominance and refereeing interpretations all you like you clever strategists simply can’t see what is fundamentally clear as daylight in front of your eyes.
We lost that game already in first half when we KICKED every g.dam ball up in the air. God all f.ng mighty how emphatically thick can anyone be not to see the simply obvious in front of their eyes. Had Du Preez and Steyn passed the ball down the back line just like they did the one and only time we scored a try we would have piss easy walked that test. It was begging to get taken by the scruff of the neck and run them ragged. They would never have gotten their tails up nor would they have known wtf hit them if we simply kept the ball in hand and run at them from the start. They would have folded like a bunch of pansies on D day.
Rugby is not about clever strategies its about simple ones and also about using a certain amount of intuitive reckoning and not depending on stuck in the mud old hat dom doos out of date ridiculously passe open book strategies that oppo just love to take when we dishing it for free on a silver platter for them to lap up in their stride.
1 Dec 2009, 14:11 pm
the kick n chase is a shite tactic and needs to be cut down.
1 Dec 2009, 14:13 pm
@David:
1 Dec 2009, 14:13 pm
**** man yourself, talk about what is in front of your all-seeing eyes. I dont even know what you are talking about. there is nothing hyfalutin about the evidence which points to the most successful ever season for the Bulls and Boks which included M Steyn and FDP at halfback.
If these guys are so bad why did all their teams do so well?
answers that one, and we can talk about ****.
1 Dec 2009, 14:14 pm
@rangerman: @rangerman: I had a great weekend. All the teams I cheered for won. I am so relieved that Liverpool are in 5th. Gotta get into CL footie next year.
1 Dec 2009, 14:14 pm
What we need to sort out is that when we decide to run the ball that we get the ball to the backline players who are equipped to run with the ball.
Virtually everytime we ran it on Sat there was a prop, or a lock or a loosie standing in the backline resulting in movements being broken down.
We need to get this right !!!
The AB’s and Aus look more lethal when they run the ball because they allow the bacline players to run with it !!! We need to address this shortcoming , why is our backline littered with forwards ??
1 Dec 2009, 14:15 pm
@rangerman: hey you white quota of a mzingeli! I know you want smit @ 3, so go ahead and play him @ tighthead there by the sharks!
And if you play him there for the boks, we will be on auto-reverse i tell you and you can kiss the world cup goodbye
1 Dec 2009, 14:15 pm
@rangerman:
Howzit Sexy.
1 Dec 2009, 14:16 pm
@Transformation: we strung almost 10 phases together…in the last two minutes of the ireland test
1 Dec 2009, 14:16 pm
@rangerman:
Sorry, just couldn’t resist it.
1 Dec 2009, 14:17 pm
@rangerman:
Scottie?
1 Dec 2009, 14:19 pm
Skop.
I am very much enjoying your use of the “dom doos” phrase.
Carry on.
1 Dec 2009, 14:19 pm
@rossoneri: my dad and i were chatting on the phone on sun and he nearly caused temporary deafness by screaming ‘POOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL!!!!!!!!! into my ear as they scored their second
but my sporting weekend was so shite i have no words for it.
at least i still have my health.
@Transformation:
i am NOT going down that road today you blerry stirrer lmao! (whisper….JS is THE GREATEST!!)
@Dawn: hello gorgeous!
1 Dec 2009, 14:20 pm
@Dawn: obray!
1 Dec 2009, 14:20 pm
i mean FDP and Steyn go and steamroller the S14, then they take the Boks to wins over the BIL and a 3N landslide, then they get the bulls into the CC final.
you right we must all be FOOLS.
i dont think i have heard such horsemanure in ages.
1 Dec 2009, 14:21 pm
@David: hehe, well i have been called worse……….
1 Dec 2009, 14:21 pm
@rangerman: Nooit! That was 5 only. Nowhere near 10.LOL!
1 Dec 2009, 14:22 pm
@cab:
Just clock on the block next to Skop’s name to answer him
1 Dec 2009, 14:24 pm
@rangerman: I was so relieved. We need a serious form injection at Merseyside. Ngog is ****. I can’t even stand looking at him. I am praying for Torres to be fit soon.
1 Dec 2009, 14:24 pm
@cab: FdP is all class cab.
no doubt there.
morne is a very good player but he excels within a very structured gameplan and is possibly not the key to unlocking our backline potential.
i guess he could just have had a bad tour and by no means do i advocate discarding him. i just think that on balance, he must surely be a candidate for bench duty if consistency is applied considering how ruan was dealt with?
1 Dec 2009, 14:26 pm
@Transformation: Does Ranger have a bromance with Smit at 3?
1 Dec 2009, 14:26 pm
@rossoneri: “i cant even stand looking at him”
i am very dissapointed actually. another season that started with hype and ends with nokkol!
kinda like the sharks i suppose.
1 Dec 2009, 14:26 pm
@rossoneri:
Your problem has been and will continue to be Benitez !!!
1 Dec 2009, 14:27 pm
Open your eyes its their in clear vivid colour on your TV screen Fdp and M. Steyn kicking all our hard won front foot ball AWAY up in the air for Kearney Bowe O’Driscoll and Co. to lap up in their stride and come prancing back down the field at us. Time and time and time and time again and again and again. How many times you got to see it before it SINKS in! Twenty, thirty, forty, fifty, one hundred times, how many times before anyone realizes this dumb doos idiotic strategy Don’t Work! Or you need to get a replay on the big screen to notice?
Fdp, Smit, Matfield and M. Steyn coughed that game by NOT reacting to circumstances. I don’t care how many times they were successful with the passe strategy in the Sh with such open book idiocy but it was and remains very palpably obvious how it DONT work against France or Ireland or I seriously doubt would work against New Zealand or Australia again in a hurry. So somebody better switch strategies pronto or go down telling me how well it worked for Bulls or Bok’s before.
1 Dec 2009, 14:27 pm
in fact, they should make all you kenners bok coaches, what a royal f-up that would be.
the only good part, would be the post-match interviews explaining the losses: can you imagine the stream of artistic horseshit that would fullfil the role of excuses: syndicates, biased refs, player bashing, Jake White.
Mad.
1 Dec 2009, 14:27 pm
@Dawn: How does one make smily faces? I wanna join your tutorial.
1 Dec 2009, 14:28 pm
@cab: It would be great television!
1 Dec 2009, 14:29 pm
@rossoneri: i think he still has a part to play there Lil’ lady.
i also think that people are just too quick to make knee jerk quick fixes that can have results way beyond what was expected.
ag, i have to leave now.
i hope you all have a good day.
tjorts!
1 Dec 2009, 14:30 pm
@justrugby: We can’t afford to fire him! What to do?
1 Dec 2009, 14:30 pm
I have a sneaky feeling that PdeV will be ringing a few changes next year under the cover of “managing” his senior Boks. I don’t believe that he’s dropped his original vision of a more creative and skillful Bok side, it’s just that he couldn’t very well drop them wholesale after he realised that they couldn’t, or wouldn’t adapt.
Morne needs to get out from under FdPs shadow for a bit, and take the role of backline general and decision maker. Something that’s rather difficult to expect in his first season as a Bok. So look out for a few players who were surprisingly excluded from the EOYT being selected in the opening internationals next year.
1 Dec 2009, 14:32 pm
@rossoneri:
LOL…….that is a problem !!!
1 Dec 2009, 14:34 pm
@rangerman: Bye!
1 Dec 2009, 14:37 pm
@cab: i’m clearly on exactly what you refer to as the dangerzone, but it is only dangerous when the kicks are precise & accurate, not just skop & hope…
I just feel pdv is letting us down by abandoning the pursuit of that complete gameplan. I don’t think it is possible for a team to be multi-dimensional without compromising their core strengths!
It just seems some players are comfortable with being spoon fed and are scared of taking responsiblity. I’m sure if wynand had spread the one ball wide when we had a 3-man overlap we would’ve scored a try but clearly he didn’t look on his outside otherwise he would’ve never cut in the way he did!
1 Dec 2009, 14:43 pm
@Transformation:
It’s the “safety first” mindset that has to be broken. Unfortunately that can only come with confidence, which means a period of mistakes and possible losses. The ABs lost the 3N, but have come out of it a stronger and more confident team, the same with the Wobblies. PdeV hasn’t really had theat luxury, with the B&IL tour forcing him to cut down on his experimental period.
1 Dec 2009, 14:44 pm
@Transformation:
The Greatest will have a plan, i suspect it is not unlike that which David alludes to above, but he’s gotta be careful now cos the knives are out, if he picks a young team that get snotted in the 3n, he be staring down the barrel and all his supporters will also ditch him faster than you can say SWITCH.
when the boks lose, everything is hauled out. some been calling for the snr players to be dropped for years and they just keep racking up more and more honours.
1 Dec 2009, 14:45 pm
yeah what would have actually been clear is that had they adopted just some of the suggestion this kenner can see, no 49-0 drubbings or losses to Ireland or France. Like I said, you don’t need to be a strategic genius in rugby all you got to do is open your eyes and react to the circumstances. Its as easy as pie, nothing to it.
Selections and strategies, on a rugby field, nothing could be easier than this, and they make it into rocket science and lose.
Gut instinct is everything, kop toe quandaries mean sweet f’all. When push comes to shove its he who reacts best to the predicament, he’s the one that comes out smiling at the end. Keep your mind open and free, you may just get surprised yet.
1 Dec 2009, 14:47 pm
@rossoneri:
My favourite?
Type : evil : (no spaces in between)
1 Dec 2009, 14:49 pm
Am off to harrass Wakawaka.
1 Dec 2009, 14:49 pm
Bok rugby need more of the Davids and the open minded free thinkers around, these JW deluded debilitators always reacting to past tense insecurities and not taking the opportunities presented they the ones that cannot adapt, and ultimately die. Just like we died against France and Ireland, stuck in our illusions of kick and chase mastery. Kak useless non proactive approach and fundamentally resulted in some dismal losses.
Pro action not reaction, the secret to success, be a leader not a follower. Therein lies the answer to true success.
1 Dec 2009, 14:50 pm
@grant10: @4
G10, to add further flames to the ‘will Smit retire ?’ fire, I am due to attend a corporate dinner/fundraising gig tonight in London titled ‘John Smit – Leader of the Pack’.
Uusal guff comes with the Invite – ‘celebration dinner to mark Smit becoming Most Capped Test Captain in rugby history’. General special guests will attend (we have 1, as yet unidentified, sitting at our table) Carter/McCaw/Bakkies/Victor/Hernandez/Spies together with some unknowns Noon/Healey and what looks like to be a curtainraiser in the form of a Knee-in-the-Back competition between Simon Shaw and Danny Grewcock because I cant think of too many other reasons why they would otherwise be attending.
Perhaps its also a good occasion to make a big announcement….?
1 Dec 2009, 14:52 pm
@WakaNathan:
Good grief.
Who invited you?
1 Dec 2009, 14:55 pm
@rossoneri:yeah ranger is a major bromance with JSmit, but it pisses the living daylights out of Grant10, because he is in love with BJ Botha so he wants the 3 spot for his own bromantic squeeze
@rangerman: cheers mzingeli
1 Dec 2009, 14:55 pm
these new age wisselaars, wissel every which way the wind blows, there is zero consistency, they call for a new team at the drop of a hat, and what happens the snr players just keep developing into a better and better team.
if there was one single thing white showed was the benefit of consistent team selection, and now we want to go back to the hairbrained tactics of no-kicking and handing out caps like smarties to every CC player in christendom.
1 Dec 2009, 14:56 pm
@cab:
I reckon pdeV is far to shrewd to be openly nailed. If I read him correctly, he’ll “manage” his senior players, not drop them whilst keeping them on his side as advisors. I doubt whether he’ll get much opposition as the senior players won’t be asked to change their approach, just assist in developing the new players.
By doing it this way, he can subtly break their influence by introducing a new mindset amongst the newer players without the senior guys risking their personal reputations on the field.
1 Dec 2009, 14:57 pm
@Dawn:
You’ll nb its for VIPs, Dawn.
what, you didnt get yours ?
1 Dec 2009, 14:58 pm
@David:
i think thats the way to go, but he needs to keep them their as an insurance policy, because i dont have as much faith as some in the supposed depth of SA rugby.
1 Dec 2009, 15:01 pm
@cab: Ja. Jake made brilliant sellections like Jaco van der Westhuizen to play flyhalf and get an arse whipping of 49 – 0 in Australia. The genius of the man!
1 Dec 2009, 15:02 pm
yeah new age wisselaars certainly would not cop it 49-0. New age wisselaars like Carel Du Plessis who developed a new strategy of total running rugby around players that could gain mastery over the entire field of play not just the aerial bombardment and collisions, who handed his brainchild over to Nick Mallet and went onto be the most successful run of winning games in our history.
You really don’t have a real clue as to who is new age and who is as ancient as the hills, you think dom doos delinquents are conservative strategists meanwhile they the ones with absolute rocks in their heads who couldn’t adapt f’all till they got an Arsetralian to show them exactly how.
Catch a wake up, it ain’t difficult, like I said, easy as simple pie, simply open them clouded shrouded dom doos eyes.
1 Dec 2009, 15:03 pm
@rossoneri:
tell me something, ou rugby genius, how many ppl in SA you know of that could’ve taken SA to where they were to a RWC in 4 years and whose team only has an average age of 27.
for all this so-called limitiations of these team, never can i remember a bok squad with so much worldclass superstars, not even in mallets team.
1 Dec 2009, 15:04 pm
@WakaNathan: Are you gonna punch him in the face?
1 Dec 2009, 15:05 pm
carel du plessis,…lol..now i;ve heard it all, i think he had the worst record of them all…there’s artistry for you, no wonder half of them are starving…gotta put bread on the table and not operate in neverneverland with the fairies.
1 Dec 2009, 15:05 pm
Guys the boks got beat by ireland so what, after what the players have achieved this year, they beat the lions and won the tri-nations the bulls boks helped the team to win the super14 again they were voted irb team of the year i think we can cut the players a little bit slack and just enjoy what they have done for SA rugby this year.I think personally the boks were a tired looking team and it showed in their general play which was lethargic.So all you bok fans out there give the guys a break and look forward to next season with anticipatition.
1 Dec 2009, 15:06 pm
@cab: Pdv can. And I don’t even have bromance with him, like you do with Jake.
1 Dec 2009, 15:06 pm
@WakaNathan:
Those tables don’t come cheap. It’s a charity event for Bobbi Bear, right?
About £2,000 a seat, I imagine.
John Smit, Dan Carter, Richie McCaw, Bakkies Botha, Victor Matfield, Juan Smith, Juan Martin Hernandez, Danny Grewcock, and Pierre Spies.
Jamie Noon, Austin Healey and Simon Shaw there for the champagne reception.
Hmmm, a charity event fighting for the rights of sexually abused children.
1 Dec 2009, 15:07 pm
@rossoneri:
wtf is bromance?
1 Dec 2009, 15:08 pm
@cab:
I don’t either. I just feel the problem is in our backs not having the confidence to break free of their defensive shackles, rather than in the forwards. I’m not advocating a wholesale rearrangement of the team and dropping of senior players. Just a period and gradual integration of players who don’t have the entrenched influence of the Jake White approach.
I don’t think we should fool ourselves that the ABs and Wobblies were probably at their weakest for years, due to player losses and injuries and to use the 3N and S14 as a yardstick of our own strength would be deluding ourselves.
1 Dec 2009, 15:09 pm
@cab:
Bromance is a portmanteau of “Brother” and “Romance”.
1 Dec 2009, 15:10 pm
@David:
the only thing is you seem to have bought into this theory of these snr players being overtly influence by White, i dont believe they are, in fact i believe matfield is a very fractious character, and smit is certainly his own man.
but this is why i think alot of you okes are older and more ou doos-like with your set theories, pdv also thinks they robots.
1 Dec 2009, 15:11 pm
@WakaNathan:
carefull susie is doing the catering ….
1 Dec 2009, 15:11 pm
Du Preez: “I almost quit.”
Don’t worry, Fourie, I’ve tried to quit many times…but every time I start up again after a few weeks…
Join the club!
1 Dec 2009, 15:11 pm
@cab: When one man admires another man he has a bromance with the one he admires.
If the admiration is both ways, the two men are bromatically involved.
It’s not homosexual.
1 Dec 2009, 15:12 pm
@cab: When one man admires another man he has a bromance with the one he admires.
If the admiration is both ways, the two men are bromatically involved.
1 Dec 2009, 15:12 pm
Morne Steyn should play for the Cheetahs or The Lions or even WP to strengthen his game. He will find it hard to develop other flyhalf skills at the Bulls. He needs to spread his wings and get out of his rugby comfort zone in Pretoria.
Both Ruan Pienaar and Morne need to re-think the flyhalf headspace.
Learn from Matt Giteau and Dan the Man chaps. Hardloop en maak kak op die opposisie.
1 Dec 2009, 15:13 pm
@WP Till I Die:
What a lag.
1 Dec 2009, 15:14 pm
@nama1: #255
Schalla is an international loose forward, Brussouw is international
Brussouw is abrilliant fetcher and Schalla more of a ball carrier/fetcher/defender
Brussouw is slowly getting more into his repertoire, I even saw him kick the other day.
Both these players need to work on their allround capabilities.
1 Dec 2009, 15:14 pm
@Dom Doos: Why did you choose that nick?
1 Dec 2009, 15:14 pm
@rossoneri:
so what is the collective noun for the worship of madiba?
are u godsdientelik-inclined?
almost certainly, its you guys with all these heros who acuse others of having them.
1 Dec 2009, 15:15 pm
@rossoneri: @311
and why on Earth would I do that ?!
I still have a photo of him holding my 1 yr old son (and an AB ball), from 5-6yrs ago, in NZ. He laughed when I said to my son “the next thing he could be lifting is the RWC”. True story.
Lovely chap. When he intro’ed rest of Sharks squad he made a hilarious chirp about AJ Venter not being too bright. The squad was in stitches.
1 Dec 2009, 15:17 pm
@WP Till I Die: @315
thats the one.
1 Dec 2009, 15:20 pm
@cab:
I agree that both Victor and Smit are strong individuals, but they also won the WC and no doubt believe that their tactics are the correct ones for themselves. If you look at the “structured” play, it revolves around the forwards with the backs playing no more than a supporting role.
It’s that balance and focus that I believe needs to change if we’re to progress further. Our pack is about as good as it could be, apart from our set scrums, it’s now time to work on integrating the backs into the game as more than an appendage to the forwards.
1 Dec 2009, 15:21 pm
@WakaNathan:
Hmmm, being held at the Honourable Artillery Company. Wonder whether there will be some explosive announcements tonight?
1 Dec 2009, 15:21 pm
@rossoneri: Still here guttermouth?
1 Dec 2009, 15:21 pm
@rossoneri:
Because I’ve been kicking up and unders all day and have not once got the riff-raff street jollers in life to buckle to my Dom Doos tactics.
1 Dec 2009, 15:23 pm
@WP Till I Die:
hence my speculation @ 301.
Im so excited, Im going to get Smitty to autograph my shirt-sleeve. Just at about armband height would seem appropriate.
1 Dec 2009, 15:23 pm
@cab:
Madibatheism?
1 Dec 2009, 15:23 pm
@WakaNathan: I would hate to be in the same room as you, cannot believe you got a ticket
1 Dec 2009, 15:24 pm
@David:
yes thats more interesting, i see it a slightly different way, which is that the pack should continue to hone itself and focus on its strenghts and upping collision intensity in numners.,,but the so-called plan b should be a more helter skelter approach where the backs take over and laat hom val waar dit wil. the problem if one wissels and does not focus on executing one thing very well, is that the other suffers.
but i agree if we are getitng beat in the collisions, then it should be opened up – there is npothing to lose = apart from 49 points.
1 Dec 2009, 15:25 pm
@WP Till I Die:
lol – this whole thread is surreal – they want to drop FdP.
ja nee, brilliant!
first it was the fetcher, then the scrums, now the halfbacks.
wisselaar central – the root cause, the consitency is the collisions.
1 Dec 2009, 15:27 pm
@WakaNathan:
Well, enjoy your £2,000 in-aid-of-charity three-course meal in the company of legends.
1 Dec 2009, 15:29 pm
@cab: #338 It is, but why can’t the refs control it better
Every man and his dog came in from the side, and falling over the ball is also not being controlled. I sat at the game and I could see each and everyone of the mistakes. Nigel Owens is hopeless,he was 3 or 4 times in the players way.
FDP had a few shocking passes in the dying minutes, I have to admit
1 Dec 2009, 15:29 pm
@cab:
A typical Saffa, knee-jerk response.
1 Dec 2009, 15:30 pm
@WakaNathan:
he has a contract to play for the sharks next year… I doubt very much he is retiring tonight…
1 Dec 2009, 15:30 pm
@WP Till I Die: £1500 per table of 10, Waka is bullshitting again
1 Dec 2009, 15:30 pm
@WP Till I Die: @339
cheers, I’ll pass that on to Smitty.
1 Dec 2009, 15:31 pm
@cab:
I’m not advocating a “helter skelter” approach, just a better and more aggressive use of the possession by the backs. Our try against Ireland was certainly not the result of a wild tossing the ball around.
Anyway, must pop out for a bit.
1 Dec 2009, 15:33 pm
thick as two planks thats all I can say about these dom doos delinquents don’t have eyes in their heads. Wonder in fact if they even got heads on their shoulders or just dom doos thick headed rocks upstairs.
1 Dec 2009, 15:33 pm
@JL1:
Hey d*ck wad.
2 tables, 2 prices. 1 with Legend in primo position; 1 without & situated in the dunny.
As for me BSing, I think you’ll find I didnt provide those details.
1 Dec 2009, 15:33 pm
@cab: Agreed CAB about the collisions but they also have to have the ability to think on their feet. Did anyone by the way see that last play where Danie was blown up for bridging ( technically correct as he was leaning on the player on the ground) however one of the Irish players came through the ruck flying right over the top without even attempting to bind which I thought would have been more of a penalty offence at the time.
Refs sometimes blow for bridging and other times tend to let it go if you have enough numbers to the breakdown so it becomes a technicality but the guy who went over the top went through like guided missile even worse than Bakkies incident against the Lions.
1 Dec 2009, 15:34 pm
@WakaNathan: Sorry. I was living out a fantasy of what I’d do.
@cab: Why? Do you have a bromance with him too?
1 Dec 2009, 15:35 pm
@WP Till I Die:
three courses and cheese surely?
maybe there is also a fish course?
and petits fours….
1 Dec 2009, 15:35 pm
@WakaNathan: Pity some of us on this site didnt know sooner you were going. There are a few guys who would love to have a chat face to face with you.
I would love to see one of your baby temper tantrums in real life and which of the kiwi-mafia wipes the snot off your nose when you are finished crying
Tell you what – wear a shirt that reads “I am Wakanathan” on the night and see if you make it thru the evening.
1 Dec 2009, 15:36 pm
@rossoneri:
do you have to use such a lame word?
cant u call it sakkie dekok or something with a bit more zest.
1 Dec 2009, 15:36 pm
@gunther:
There must be a fish course, if it’s being prepared by the superlative Suzie!
1 Dec 2009, 15:37 pm
@JL1: Look whose talking.
1 Dec 2009, 15:38 pm
Hey guys, what’s up with the vitriol aimed at WakaNathan? He’s proved himself to be a rugby lover.
1 Dec 2009, 15:39 pm
@cab: You used “helter skelter” talk about overused!
1 Dec 2009, 15:40 pm
@WP Till I Die: Yes I agree.
And JL1 is a $%%^$%^%%$#$#@#%$%$%^%$#$%^^&&&!
1 Dec 2009, 15:42 pm
@WakaNathan:
I’d be pissed of if I paid all that money and my “legend” was grewacock…. mind you pierre spies is no great conversationist…
1 Dec 2009, 15:42 pm
@whatever: Bwhahahahahaha!!! Love it, he has not got the guts
1 Dec 2009, 15:43 pm
@whatever:
What a coincidence. Whenever your name appears, I always think of snot too.
1 Dec 2009, 15:43 pm
@WP Till I Die:
parktown prawns…
1 Dec 2009, 15:43 pm
@rossoneri: Stick to rugby, focus now, do not go for the bait. You can do it, make us proud talk some rugby
1 Dec 2009, 15:45 pm
@gunther:
Retirement speculation probably centred around his Bok status, not playing in general. Not the 1st time it has been mentioned on Keo this year either.
1 Dec 2009, 15:48 pm
And let’s face it, announcing his retirement now will renew interest in his book (which is already selling very well!).
1 Dec 2009, 15:48 pm
@WakaNathan:
Have my LBD sorted.
I am coming to the do with you.
1 Dec 2009, 15:52 pm
What the hell is going on here. It feels like an episode of Oprah’s book club.
1 Dec 2009, 15:55 pm
@JL1: That’s what I said to you earlier. Try to come up with your own posts. I know it’s hard. But try. Forget rugby. You are not so sharp there. Stick to braai tips.
1 Dec 2009, 15:55 pm
@Wezwp:
Me and Wakawaka are going to a John Smit do.
1 Dec 2009, 15:55 pm
WHEN WILL THE IRB AWARDS BE AWARDED?
1 Dec 2009, 15:56 pm
@JL1:
What’s the best recipe for potato salad to go with braai.
1 Dec 2009, 15:57 pm
@Wezwp:
Done already
We are team of the year, Richie McCaw is player of the year.
Anything else?
1 Dec 2009, 15:58 pm
Who’s player of the year, Fdp get it ?
1 Dec 2009, 16:00 pm
@WakaNathan: I will look you up tonight, loud mouth
1 Dec 2009, 16:00 pm
Bokke dont deserve any award for bad sportmanship behaviour in the 3rd b & irish lions game.
1 Dec 2009, 16:02 pm
What are you going to wear?
1 Dec 2009, 16:03 pm
@Dawn: #370 It has to be Maris piper potatoes, lots of eggs, bacon, garlic chives and salt and pepper and real mayonaise. Delicious
1 Dec 2009, 16:04 pm
@Wezwp: No. Where have you been hiding? Richie McCaw got it.
1 Dec 2009, 16:04 pm
@rossoneri: Not trying to be sharp, you support a team as much as I do and we can talk, otherwise you are what you seem, nothing but hot air
1 Dec 2009, 16:05 pm
@JL1: Ja. Talk food. Stick to the things you best at.
1 Dec 2009, 16:07 pm
How about Provita’s, sardines, olives, cheddar, cream cheese, pepper, salad leaves and olive oil for lunch.
1 Dec 2009, 16:08 pm
Dawn mos loves her calamari chip rolls.
1 Dec 2009, 16:09 pm
avo on toast and i’m as happy as larry
1 Dec 2009, 16:11 pm
saturday’s match reminded me of the 19-0 loss to the All Blacks @ newlands last year where the fourie du preez & butch were were also kicking nonsense.
The brisbane game where the aussies unsettled du preez and he got flustered & started throwing his hands up with young james o’connor collecting the ball to score
And most of the 2008 s14 season for the where he was moaning about the elvs..
I think RubgyRulz got it spot on when she referred to him as “precious”, the boys is soft.
we saw this kicking malaise with the Fdp-wannabe francois hougaard against saracens & still the warning lights were ignored by coach john smit & co. After Heini, Ruan, Meisiekind & juan de jongh had ran that sarries defence ragged and leading 18-5, then came in the tactically unaware “dom doos” FH with the skop & jag and our backline was taken back to making tackles only…
1 Dec 2009, 16:12 pm
@rossoneri:
LBD!
1 Dec 2009, 16:14 pm
@Dawn:
Im a litle confused. Coming in a LBD ? Are you bringing the cigars or am I ?
1 Dec 2009, 16:14 pm
@WP Till I Die:
Babes
When is that fly friend of yours getting married.
1 Dec 2009, 16:15 pm
@WakaNathan:
LBD is a Little Black Dress.
And the cigars are your forte.
1 Dec 2009, 16:17 pm
I care not about Saturday.
Whole of last week I called a Bok loss.
No-one listened!
1 Dec 2009, 16:17 pm
@charo: eish my larnie – Im with you! Nothing beats avo on toast, a bit of black pepper
1 Dec 2009, 16:18 pm
@Dawn:
come on Dawn, youre sharper (and grubbier) than that.
“LBD…..coming……gars…..”
=
Bill & Mon.
1 Dec 2009, 16:20 pm
@Wezwp: @ 381
@Dawn:
now thats a recipe I would like to acquaint myself with
1 Dec 2009, 16:20 pm
@WakaNathan:
I’m sorry. I know not whereof you speak?
Bill Nighy?
(Maybe I’m not that grubby)
1 Dec 2009, 16:23 pm
@WP Till I Die:
smittie will have another book to write before he retires
@WakaNathan:
if he stops playing for the boks he will stop altogether…
1 Dec 2009, 16:25 pm
@Dawn:
Bill Cinton. Monica Lewinsky.
LBD. Something for the drycleaning. And a nice moist Cohiba.
1 Dec 2009, 16:26 pm
@WakaNathan:
How rude.
1 Dec 2009, 16:27 pm
@gunther:
You probably have a point there. Altho concentrating fully on Sharks getting some silverware in his last season would be a great way of repaying his most loyal fans, like Puma, should he then retire. I think most players would like to bow out with their 1st club, no ?
1 Dec 2009, 16:27 pm
@WakaNathan:
I will have you know I am beyond reproach.
I did not sleep with that man, neither did I inhale.
1 Dec 2009, 16:29 pm
@Dawn:
You may care to go over those cigar jokes we had a few weeks back with SodaJoe (and maybe WPTID ?). I would hate to think you missed out on the grubby jokes of your Keo journey.
1 Dec 2009, 16:30 pm
@Dawn:
I preferred Obamas response to ‘did you inhale(smoke weed’. He said
“I thought that was the whole point”.
1 Dec 2009, 16:31 pm
@WakaNathan:
Didn’t see those.
1 Dec 2009, 16:32 pm
Hey baby!! i miss you so much. Mwah to the most beautiful girl.
1 Dec 2009, 16:36 pm
@JL1: @373
Im surprised you are going. Someone told me there was a ‘No DHs Policy’.
1 Dec 2009, 16:36 pm
@WakaNathan:
I deny whatever was said about me.
1 Dec 2009, 16:37 pm
@Wezwp:
Are you sober.
1 Dec 2009, 16:39 pm
@Wezwp:
I think you had the wrong window open, mate.
Didn’t realise you mixed keo with sororitys!uts.com?
1 Dec 2009, 16:40 pm
Yes i am. Just upbeat about the upcoming s14. The chances of the stormers reaching the semi finals has to be 25/1. We going to seriously need to put together a string of results to do it.
1 Dec 2009, 16:43 pm
mmmmmmmmm……sorority§luts.com …tempting.
1 Dec 2009, 16:44 pm
@WP Till I Die:
Did you see my kweshchin.
When is your very fly friend getting married?
1 Dec 2009, 16:44 pm
@Tacitus: Tact – daai mannetjie het OORGENOEG geld by sy ouers gekry…. OORGENOEG!. Hy hoefie n dag in se lewe verder te werkie.
hy was die laaste erkende senior bok om sy kontrak met sarfu te teken … vir hom het dit glad nie oor die geld gegaan nie…. nogal respek vir hom!
1 Dec 2009, 16:46 pm
@Wezwp:
Get a few slasher movies.
They all get hacked to death anyway.
1 Dec 2009, 16:46 pm
@Staal:
Wat skree jy.
1 Dec 2009, 16:48 pm
@WP Till I Die:
Why have you forsaken me?
You don’t respond?
1 Dec 2009, 16:52 pm
@Wezwp:
Actually … I love those movies.
I can’t WAIT for the insane killer to start hacking those screaming blonde banshees to death.
1 Dec 2009, 16:53 pm
@Dawn: you don’t know?
Sheriff told him to stop talking to you because you’re his woman. You didn’t see that thread?
1 Dec 2009, 16:55 pm
@Transformation:
Whose woman?
Please send it to me.
Didn’t see it.
1 Dec 2009, 17:04 pm
that you are sheriff’s chick…will look for it
1 Dec 2009, 19:17 pm
This sounds like an episode out of the Bold & the Beautiful. That’s how pathetic it is. How old is this guy. What was he going to do … open a sports pub with Richard Bands and have a guest appearance by Steve Hofmeyr every second week?
1 Dec 2009, 19:19 pm
Good grief the one senior I actually want to see
1 Dec 2009, 19:39 pm
@kevin w:
the guy is loaded I he doesn’t need to work another day in his life f he doesn’t want to…I doubt very much that a sports pub with richard bands (who would drink all the profits) is on his list of priorities…
1 Dec 2009, 20:03 pm
@gunther: yes gunther … all his South African Ronts are going to be very valuable in 10or 20 years.
Many people are loaded and properly loaded … they still work. So Du Preez can cry me a river to be honest. We have enough kak ex players on supersport already.
1 Dec 2009, 20:35 pm
@JL1: #325
Then there is no reason to degrade the coach if he prefers the one instead of the other.
1 Dec 2009, 21:05 pm
@kevin w:
sure bru whatever you clearly don’t understand he is wealthy away from rugby….he is not looking for sympathy more than anything else it is an endorsement of the current set up…but anyway…
1 Dec 2009, 21:06 pm
sure bru whatever you clearly don’t understand he is wealthy away from rugby….he is not looking for sympathy at allmore than anything else it is more praise for the current set up…
but anyway…you are very clever..
1 Dec 2009, 22:29 pm
Just a pity that the SA coaching regime no nothing about coaching, they have created such a nice atmosphere in the SA camp that they have forgotten how to win.
1 Dec 2009, 23:47 pm
Well, well that was quite a good read tonight!!
Have been thinking about my blogger awards 2009 (sounds like Sheriff, I know)…
Soda Joe is still probably the funniest blogger but old Gunther is snapping at his heels lately!!
Astute Rugby Brain Award goes to………
2 Dec 2009, 03:38 am
talking of awards n’all…….
There were a few Awardees on show tonight @ John Smits dinner here in London. Fundraiser for Sth African kids (in partic victims of sexual abuse).
Some hilarious moments from the speakers. Q & A with McCaw & Matfield 1st.
Victor was quite quick with a quip, seemed very natural and at ease. Safas at our table were chuckling at the Blue Bulls jokes (McCaw said the fan who paints himself blue, big gut, horns on his hat was “Victors Dad…or sister”). McCaw was fairly diplomatic, complimenting Smit on his refereeing abilities.
Smit himself is just a natural speaker, funny, very eloquent, relaxed. Went thru his 1st XV selected from players he’d played with. No surprises with most Boks & Sharks. His 1 curveball was a Fijian winger from Clermont days (Nalaga ?). He had to answer a few hairy Ques’s from the audience like “who’s the biggest in the shower *wink wink*”. Apparently some (anon) “fitness trainer….stopped doing pressups when he was 3″. G10, you’ll be interested to hear his response to the ‘retirement’ Ques was noticeably vague and purposefully fudged. Most tellingly he finished by saying he had “unfinished business with the Sharks” that he’d like to rectify, which was interesting. Lots of jokes about Bissy being the ladies man on tour. 1 audience Ques was “who is dirtiest ?”. He answered “too many cameras to be dirty these days…….but Bakkies and Schalk were the toughest”. Lots of ref’s to Bakkies etc (eg “I used to be 7ft tall before I starting hooking in front of Bakkies”.
All’n'all, a very impressive individual.
Did the tour of the room. McCaw was the busiest chap there, more chicas queueing for photos/autographs than guys. Otherwise the biggest draw was Bakkies & Matfield. Habana, most disappointing, very unfriendly.
You’ll be pleased to know that after a quick snap with Bakkies (and that guy IS huuuuuuuge ! taller than Matfield, surely) I whispered sweet nothings in his ear…..
“keep clearing those rucks, Bakkies”.
“I will, mate, dont you worry !”
.
.
BaXXies !
2 Dec 2009, 03:51 am
Thanks for the low down Waka so where was JL1.
2 Dec 2009, 04:16 am
@skopskiet:
He was keeping low. My old mate, Bakkies, told me he heard there “might be some trouble” and that if I sensed any dark forces just to shout “JUSTICE4″ and he would “come running…in from the side, head 1st”.
2 Dec 2009, 04:47 am
Okey dokey good old Baxxies, I just somehow knew he’d come through for you.
2 Dec 2009, 05:55 am
@WakaNathan:
Now that you’ve seen Bakkies up close, you can probably understand why young Isaac Ross asked Henry for a few games off.
2 Dec 2009, 09:54 am
@WakaNathan: Awesome, sounds like a blast! Wish I’d been there…thanks for the report!
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