Baa Baas match ‘not ideal’
3 Dec 2009
Saru couldn’t withdraw the nine Springboks selected for the Barbarians as they had already made an agreement with the club in April.
Peter de Villiers tried to justify the Boks’ minimal preparation time of two days in French conditions before the Toulouse Test as he wanted to make the tour a ‘two and a half week one instead of four weeks’. De Villiers hasn’t had his wish granted as still more than half of the Boks who started against Ireland will spend a week longer up north for the fixture at Twickenham on Saturday.
Saru acting MD Andy Marinos was initially unwilling to speak about the Boks’ involvement in the exhibition match against the All Blacks as the topic of the Boks’ ‘fatigue’ has been a big talking point in recent weeks.
‘We’ve all heard Jake White’s views, so haven’t you guys spoken enough about this issue? But anyways, in April SA Rugby had a request from the Barbarians to have our players released. We spoke to the provincial unions as last year one party was willing to release and the other not, and this year we both agreed to let our players play,’ Marinos told keo.co.za.
Players such as Schalk Burger and Bismarck du Plessis weren’t available for the Boks’ Test against Italy due to injury, but will line-up for the Baa Baas two weeks later. Fourie du Preez – usually a target for all opposition facing him – was also doubtful for the Ireland match, but Marinos played down these worries as he doesn’t believe the risk of injuries at Twickenham will be as great.
Those who watched Schalk Burger clattering into defenders in last year’s Wembley encounter or seeing two Australian props being stretchered off would disagree.
‘We couldn’t withdraw certain players as the Barbarians had selected their team and based a model around those players, so we couldn’t do that to them,’ said Marinos. ‘Im confident our medical team did all the work at the end of the tour and they would’ve pulled guys who they were worried about.
‘In hindsight, given the year we’ve had, it’s not ideal – the players have to spend another week on tour and run the risk of injury. But we must take the match in context. The week’s build-up is not as tough, and Baa Baas matches aren’t the same intensity as Tests.’
On Monday De Villiers called for more rest as the players were physically and mentally drained after the year, but Victor Matfield, Danie Rossouw, Beast Mtawarira, Bryan Habana, Morne Steyn, Jaque Fourie, Du Preez, Du Plessis and Burger will get one more hit-out.
Looking ahead to 2010, Marinos said the priority shouldn’t be the players’ franchises, but the Boks.
‘Do you rest the players for the Super 14, or for the Boks? The media want them to play Super Rugby, but that’s skewed, the Boks must get the most of them. When the Boks are strong and successful, it benefits all of South African rugby. We’ve done advanced planning for 2010, and told all our stakeholders those plans.
‘We’ve got an invitation to open the new Aviva Stadium [against Ireland] and a fixture against the Baa Baas, but we need those as we look to unearth talent before the World Cup. We know we have to manage the players. They can’t miss huge blocks like the All Blacks did in 2007, but they have to be managed by their Super 14 teams.’
By Grant Ball
429 Comments
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3 Dec 2009, 06:08 am
player management so poor
3 Dec 2009, 06:20 am
the beginning of the end for the all conquering boks… Next years 3Ns will not be afforded the luxury of 3 hard tests against a competitive side (the lions) to prepare… the EOYT did nothing to unearth the next generation of test player for SA… I see on other threads everyone wants the same team available for 2011, this is SA’s mistake in my opinion… much like the AB’s in 1991, who sent the majority of the 87 side… teams need to continually evolve to stay on top, something which I believe we arent seeing with the current SA side..
3 Dec 2009, 06:31 am
With the WC 2011 I see AB’s and Boks taking it easy and resting players for S14 and Trinations. Good news for the Aussies, they might stand a chance now.
Agreed Poppa69 time to cull the Old Boois club.
3 Dec 2009, 06:56 am
yeah evolution is the by word. Problem is we have the very proponents of evolution digging their heels in sh’t scared as hell to actually evolve hanging on for dear life to that which they trump up as sacred. Nothing short of cowardice in fact.
3 Dec 2009, 07:08 am
Yip…agree Poppa…we need to see more changes and blooding of a few new and exciting players otherwise we run the risk of falling into the traps of the english world cup winning team and the AB’s first winners…
3 Dec 2009, 07:17 am
it seems like jake white is a thorn in andy marinos’ @ss too! The man already thinks he is DOR of south african rugby, installed by the fawning journalists in this country.
Well andy, last year when jake went over your heads and spoke privately to the springboks to play in “his” baa baas team you should’ve started the “forward planning” then! You knew the 2009 schedule well in advance, so you can’t claim that you to be suprised by the levels of fatigue and injuries.
3 Dec 2009, 07:29 am
Pretty pathetic actually, so dumb founded chicken to evolve so they stagnate and make holy cows out of dead beat hero’s. Put these holy g.damn cows to pasture already how much longer they going to hang on for dear life to a bunch of fawning prima donna’s.
De Villiers made the big mistake of riding on a dead beat ox wagon who’s only possible extended legacy was downhill. Should have rung the changes long ago, one can only hope and pray it hasn’t been left too late now.
3 Dec 2009, 07:31 am
@skopskiet: Really starts with the coach though doesn’t it? Everyone had high hopes of Div shaking things up, but when all fell apart in his first season he reverted back to the old tried and tested inherited from his predecessor. Question is: Will Div evolve in 2010?
3 Dec 2009, 07:31 am
Sentmentality
Players out of position
The 2 true cancers in SA rugby.
3 Dec 2009, 07:35 am
@kwas: PDV will only eveolve if he is brave enough to take charge 100%. The ‘Boys Club ‘ mentality has to be stopped. The Bok jersey has to be played for again, not a given!
Complacency and player power has gone to far.
Consulting players whether they would mind being rested???
Screw that! PDV gonna have to stand up and be counted….
At the end of the day he is accountable and gonna have to take the bullet….
PDV….time to do the hard yards….
3 Dec 2009, 07:45 am
We have a championship team, stop moaning! Tight forwards can play until their mid-thirties, and the concerned players are tight forwards.
I think older backs are more of a problem like some Aussies in 95. Most of our backs will still be under 30 come 2011
3 Dec 2009, 07:47 am
I don’t know whether De Villiers is or was master of his own destiny. He chose the pragmatic route to hang with the senior class of 2007. I’m not sure who or which coach would have done different taking over a Wc champ team. So he was almost damned either way he went. He chose the consistent route without disrupting much and seems as a result had to forego his high hopes of evolution.
Now if I’m him I sweep clean and start from scratch. Right from the beginning. Seems to me his open style approach was hijacked by the player coaches and got bogged down in the swamp of ou doos mediocrity. Between Muir and Gold and Smit and Matfield its difficult to know who is really the one with any kind of clear sighted vision. Maybe none of them.
Only way to tackle this issue is sweep clean with an empty black board and start again from the top or the bottom whichever way you like to build your pyramid. Robbie Deans and Graham Henry and Marc Lievremont already got a good head start on him. Now he’s going to have to rattle some chains and bust loose and try catch up again.
3 Dec 2009, 07:51 am
Goeie dag al jul negatiewe fillistyne…
Good morning all you negative phillistines….
Hoe lyk dinge….. sien ou Bakkies is toe wragtag beseer… eish ons droom as ons dink die ou manne gaan 2011 haal..
3 Dec 2009, 08:05 am
Ja ons droom nog steeds. Watter boom gaan goeie vrugte oplewer as dit nie betyds ge ‘prune’ is?
Nee wat dis nou tyd, al is dit klaar bietjie laat, om nuwe vars lugsame bloed by te voeg en daai amper doeie karkass weer aan die lewe te probeer red.
3 Dec 2009, 08:06 am
Why the hell don’t they just send them all to Shady Pines and let people play who really want to play.
3 Dec 2009, 08:09 am
I’m tired of reading about them being tired.
We all blooming tired.
We don’t earn a quarter of what they get.
3 Dec 2009, 08:14 am
yeah shady pines golf club where they can write their memoirs and get their manicure’s and designer hairdo’s done while relaxing on the porch overlooking the lake before they go out and stretch their legs on the back 9 and sundowner’s.
Get the young virile and hungry lions out on the rugby field these ou dose are sat pap moeg.
3 Dec 2009, 08:18 am
@Dawn: Totally with you!
3 Dec 2009, 08:25 am
So many players in S14 and CC who play with guts week in and week out and never see the luxury of Bok jersey.
Then they bugger off to the NH where they are appreciated.
Don’t get me started!
3 Dec 2009, 08:29 am
And every December we are bombarded by KEO and his minions with articles about how exhausted players are.
THEY KNOW THESE TOURS ARE COMING!
3 Dec 2009, 09:03 am
I think that those who say players and schedules need to be better managed have a point…HOWEVER why does it always seem to be a Springbok excuse?? When was the last time you heard the AB’s, Wallabies or other top sides complaining of fatigue? These guys get paid a ton of cash to play a match a week…so harden the f**k up!!!
3 Dec 2009, 09:08 am
@grant10: An example of the above is JPP. In my opinion he is A) Immensely talented B) Lazy as hell. He knows he’s the incumbent, and feels entitled to the jersey, and I’m getting tired of his lackadaisical approach. My previous example of how JdV could have set up a match winning try against Ireland in the dying minutes serves as an example. HE makes the break with JPP on his outside….who then slows to a canter, allowing JdV to run away and into a 2 man tackle. Why wasn’t he on his shoulder waiting for the offload? Cos he couldn’e be arsed to sprint! Laziness or apathy has NO place on a rugby field or in a Bok jersey.
3 Dec 2009, 09:22 am
SARU has no right to ask franchises to rest players, its as simple as that.
The players are contracted to the franchises, not to SA Rugby. If SA Rugby wants to call the shots on players, they need to contract them. You can’t have it both ways.
You can’t expect franchises to fall on the proverbial sword by resting their best players because their livelihood depends on results & match attendances. Both are directly linked to the players in the team.
This leaves SA Rugby with two choices:
1. Rest boks during lesser tours and matches, which is obviously not ideal.
2. Players have contracts with SA Rugby instead of the franchises, in which case the power to rest players will rest with SARU instead of the franchises.
3 Dec 2009, 09:35 am
I doubt whether it’s the players who are complaining repeatedly I think it’s the media who are busy regurgitating the same **** over and over again.
If I’m a player and I get asked. “Are you feeling tired?” I will answer the question honestly. I don’t have the power to determine how the journalist wants to report the matter and how many times he chooses to use that quote on his numerous articles.
I don’t think our guys are whinging as much as these keo poepols try to make out, which is giving everyone the wrong impression but I would assume that all the SH teams’ players are pretty knackered at the moment.
It’s been a long season for everyone and player management is key, SARU are correct in what they’re trying to do.
3 Dec 2009, 09:42 am
@Atreides: the reason why it is always the excuse for only the springboks is that in south africa we only pay lip service to player management! Nothing will be done to rest these players i assure you…what is the equivalent in new zealand? The announcement was made a couple of days back that McCaw won’t be playing the 1st 3 rounds of S14, no moaning from the Crusaders, their sponsors or anyone, because the BIG picture is All Black success, not parochial interests of unions.
3 Dec 2009, 09:53 am
@iamthebear: tht sounds much better
SARU just needs to get the balls to contract the players
i mean Richie McCaw is coming back during 2nd half of Super 14
now thts player management
3 Dec 2009, 09:55 am
Baa Humbug
3 Dec 2009, 09:58 am
@Dawn:
Well said
3 Dec 2009, 10:14 am
This whole article works on my gat.
3 Dec 2009, 10:23 am
@Papoose: richie is only missing the 1st 3 games, not the whole 1st half of s14
3 Dec 2009, 10:36 am
@Transformation:
I’m still waiting for that mail?
I want to grind that idiot to the ground the next time he shows his face here … but I need proof!
3 Dec 2009, 10:56 am
Player management seems to be a thorn in the flesh of only SA rugby. I’ve done a quick calculation. During a season the MINIMUM matches your top SA players will play are 37.
10 x tests;
13 x Super rugby;
14 x CC.
This excludes of course semi-finals and finals in the case of Super rugby and CC. The maximum amount a player will play if his team reaches the final of both competitions will be 41.
Keep in mind that your Bok players usually don’t play in the first round of the CC because they are busy with the 3Nations at that time. If you deduct the 7 matches played in the CC during that time it means your top Bok players will only play a maximum of 34. Tim Noakes, the man who keeps harping on about players fatigue every year, proposes that players should not play more than 26-28 matches in a year.
From the above analysis, it seems that if coaches let them play only 60minutes here and there or use them as subs in the last 30minutes through the course of the CC and Super rugby, there is no need to rest them when the Boks play.
3 Dec 2009, 11:15 am
@nama1: @Transformation: While I do think NZ are ahead in terms of managing players generally, lets take 34 matches played in a season, and imagine they’re playing 80 minutes in every single match.
You’re looking at 45 hours of match rugby. In a year.
Out of 5840 waking hours per year.
Sorry…but as I said before….harden the f**k up!
3 Dec 2009, 11:25 am
I went to my boss this morning telling him I’m physically and mentally drained too. He laughed and said you sound like the whinging Boks.
3 Dec 2009, 11:27 am
Have never heard a nation whinge as much as the Boks. The AB’s played the same if not more games but continue to deliver. Often read how some supporters are continuously telling other countries supporters to stop whinging. Well it all starts on this site. Bunch of whinging girls.
3 Dec 2009, 11:28 am
harden the f**k up says the keyboard warrior as he reaches for another pie…
3 Dec 2009, 11:29 am
@Blindspot:
I tried it too.
He told me to get lost!
3 Dec 2009, 11:30 am
As far as I know, players get their salary in various tiers. They get a set salary based on a contract. They get match fees for each match played and they get win bonuses. OBVIOUSLY if you start asking players if they want to play in other Internationals they will say yes. They will say yes because they are thinking of money, holidays, holiday houses, flash cars and in some cases retirement.
Don’t forget the bulk of these players have abstained from going abroad to make more money there in order to be part of the Bok setup, so you can bet your bottom dollar when they have a chance to make more money in their South African setup they will blady well take it!
They need to be TOLD they are not playing – simple as that!
3 Dec 2009, 11:33 am
@Blindspot: It’s a self-fulfilling prophecy, I’m telling you.
Noakes keeps telling them they’re exhausted and fatigued and worn out. So do the coaches. And the managers. And sports journalists. And fans.
Pretty soon they’re trudging around like zombies because all they’re focused on is how tired they are. If you keep hearing something, you will begin to believe it. It’s all about mind-set and attitude. They need to stop pampering them and entertaining this nonsense.
3 Dec 2009, 11:33 am
@nama1: #32
Also keep in mind that there are usually only 5 teams that really compete for a place in the semi’s of the CC, which means that the CC coach can rest the Boks when they play against the weaker teams.
In Super rugby there are also usually 2/3 teams every year that serves as whipping boys for the other teams. If he is rest in two matches against these teams, it means that your top Bok only have as much as 29 matches in which he have to play. Using him as a super sub or taking him of after 50-60 minutes in some matches in CC and Super rugby will ensure that he is not “fatigue” when he plays for the Boks.
3 Dec 2009, 11:33 am
@Dawn:
I’m not surprised…
3 Dec 2009, 11:35 am
@gunther: Pfft. What do you know about me? About as much as I do about you, so do’t go making assumptions. Last time I checked, you go on holiday when your work is finished. Unlike the Boks did this year.
3 Dec 2009, 11:37 am
@Atreides: Fark mate – I gym seven times a week and still perform better than they do! What is the hype – it is a job and if they can’t cope – show them their signed performance contract and throw it at them. Good grief this team really acts like spoilt 15 year old girls. Change their jobs if they can’t cope.
3 Dec 2009, 11:38 am
@Atreides:hey “keyboard warrior” (peace to Gunther) are you aware of the kind of physical attrition that happens in professional rugby? 5840 hours of pie munching cannot be equated to super rugby & test match rugby
@Dawn: so you want me to be an accomplice in the “grinding” you’re going to be involved in?
3 Dec 2009, 11:41 am
@Blindspot: Exactly. How many AB players have been whining about being tired? How many of their managers? Or coaches? None. All McCaw says is that he’s looking forward to taking a break, ONCE THE JOB IS DONE. Thos edismal performances against France and Ireland….am I wrong in saying they got paid a full match fee?
And last time I checked they won all their EOYT matches. Because they have mental fortitude, and aren’t sitting around feeling sorry for themselves because noo-noo’s tired and wants a holiday.
3 Dec 2009, 11:42 am
@gunther:
Why you so fed up like you got your head in a bag of angry squirrels.
Moeilik.
Don’t pick a fight you can’t finish.
3 Dec 2009, 11:42 am
@Atreides: #33
I am with you on this. I also don’t buy into this “fatigue” excuse.
I was just trying to show that our players in fact don’t play the amount of rugby some would have us believe. Two weeks ago in an article on this site FdP was used as an example of a player who was overplayed. Yet the amount of minutes he spent on the field of play amounted to about 23 matches. So Tim Noakes must be very wrong if he says that the body can only handle between 26-28 matches per year.
I’m actually waiting for him to reduce that number to something like 22 matches per year. Watch this space.
3 Dec 2009, 11:43 am
@Blindspot: Have you counted the numerous training sessions they do? I doubt your gym sessions would be as intense as the Bok’s anyhew. I dearly hope you were being sarcastic…
3 Dec 2009, 11:44 am
@Atreides: They are such girls mate! They sit and read Keo all day and get inspiration from their wonderful journalists! No wonder the AB’s are the worlds best team and don’t come with but who has the World Cup! Champions perform continuously. Look at Woods – maybe the wrong example at the moment
3 Dec 2009, 11:45 am
@Transformation: Dude I have no doubt that it is an immense task physically. What I’m saying is that all the teams play and train just as hard. It’s their job, what they get paid to do, If they can’t take the pace, then step aside for those who can, and if that’s how we want to view it, then as fans we can’t complain if they flag at the end.
And I haven’t eaten a pie in 10 years.
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