Baa Baas match ‘not ideal’
3 Dec 2009
Saru couldn’t withdraw the nine Springboks selected for the Barbarians as they had already made an agreement with the club in April.
Peter de Villiers tried to justify the Boks’ minimal preparation time of two days in French conditions before the Toulouse Test as he wanted to make the tour a ‘two and a half week one instead of four weeks’. De Villiers hasn’t had his wish granted as still more than half of the Boks who started against Ireland will spend a week longer up north for the fixture at Twickenham on Saturday.
Saru acting MD Andy Marinos was initially unwilling to speak about the Boks’ involvement in the exhibition match against the All Blacks as the topic of the Boks’ ‘fatigue’ has been a big talking point in recent weeks.
‘We’ve all heard Jake White’s views, so haven’t you guys spoken enough about this issue? But anyways, in April SA Rugby had a request from the Barbarians to have our players released. We spoke to the provincial unions as last year one party was willing to release and the other not, and this year we both agreed to let our players play,’ Marinos told keo.co.za.
Players such as Schalk Burger and Bismarck du Plessis weren’t available for the Boks’ Test against Italy due to injury, but will line-up for the Baa Baas two weeks later. Fourie du Preez – usually a target for all opposition facing him – was also doubtful for the Ireland match, but Marinos played down these worries as he doesn’t believe the risk of injuries at Twickenham will be as great.
Those who watched Schalk Burger clattering into defenders in last year’s Wembley encounter or seeing two Australian props being stretchered off would disagree.
‘We couldn’t withdraw certain players as the Barbarians had selected their team and based a model around those players, so we couldn’t do that to them,’ said Marinos. ‘Im confident our medical team did all the work at the end of the tour and they would’ve pulled guys who they were worried about.
‘In hindsight, given the year we’ve had, it’s not ideal – the players have to spend another week on tour and run the risk of injury. But we must take the match in context. The week’s build-up is not as tough, and Baa Baas matches aren’t the same intensity as Tests.’
On Monday De Villiers called for more rest as the players were physically and mentally drained after the year, but Victor Matfield, Danie Rossouw, Beast Mtawarira, Bryan Habana, Morne Steyn, Jaque Fourie, Du Preez, Du Plessis and Burger will get one more hit-out.
Looking ahead to 2010, Marinos said the priority shouldn’t be the players’ franchises, but the Boks.
‘Do you rest the players for the Super 14, or for the Boks? The media want them to play Super Rugby, but that’s skewed, the Boks must get the most of them. When the Boks are strong and successful, it benefits all of South African rugby. We’ve done advanced planning for 2010, and told all our stakeholders those plans.
‘We’ve got an invitation to open the new Aviva Stadium [against Ireland] and a fixture against the Baa Baas, but we need those as we look to unearth talent before the World Cup. We know we have to manage the players. They can’t miss huge blocks like the All Blacks did in 2007, but they have to be managed by their Super 14 teams.’
By Grant Ball
429 Comments
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3 Dec 2009, 11:45 am
@mozez22: No dead serious. Have you ever watched my training sessions? If not don’t comment.
3 Dec 2009, 11:46 am
@Atreides:
pffft indeed I am sorry you can’t see the irony in somebody sitting on a rugby blog telling telling people who play one of the most physical sports on earth at the very highest level to harden the f**k up…that is QUALITY humour…
now have another pie…
3 Dec 2009, 11:46 am
@Transformation:
No, I just want you to mail me the stuff so I can read it myself.
3 Dec 2009, 11:48 am
@nama1: For sure. Maybe we should just reduce it to 15 games. Shame, we wouldn’t want them to get tired now, would we?
3 Dec 2009, 11:48 am
Oh and Mozez22 – I watch them play week in and week out and sometimes have to wonder if they do train!
3 Dec 2009, 11:49 am
About time some of the real selectors get some real knowledge from the true selectors at Fireman’s.
3 Dec 2009, 11:52 am
@Dawn:
my hamstrings are tight and I have pilates tonight.. don’t test me muthaf*cka…
@Transformation:
pie munching is very dangerous….tennis elbow is an occupational hazard and so (dare I say it) is choking…
3 Dec 2009, 11:52 am
@gunther: See above. And that’s exactly what I’m saying, because these pathetic excuses are making us a laughing stock at the moment.
One of the most physical sports on earth. Maybe. But go spend a week with, say, Israeli special forces, or navy seals, and see what they think of 45 hours of action a year being too much, and leading to fatigue and exhaustion…they’ll give you a teddy bear and a blanky and tuck you in with mommy where your pansy *** belongs.
3 Dec 2009, 11:54 am
@Blindspot: No, but you not the only one who goes to gym around here. have YOU seen the Bok’s gym sessions? if not, don’t comment…
3 Dec 2009, 11:55 am
@55Blindspot: now u getting silly…
3 Dec 2009, 11:56 am
@mozez22: They push big weights around, strong as oxen those guys
3 Dec 2009, 11:57 am
@mozez22: Yes I have seen the gym sessions mate and nothing out of the ordinary. Silly really – shame on you.
3 Dec 2009, 11:59 am
@mozez22: Just because all of us don’t agree with you doesn’t warrant mud slinging. I comment on what you say and don’t need to belittle you.
3 Dec 2009, 12:01 pm
@Atreides: You must see them when they look in the mirros mate. Wink at themselves they so muscular.
3 Dec 2009, 12:01 pm
Mallet is coaching the Baa-baas, correct?
3 Dec 2009, 12:02 pm
This whole “fatigue” thing has perhaps been exaggerated, perhaps by the media. Tim Noakes did have a point, but not all the Bok players can lay claim to being fatigued. Even with the Bulls guys, who would have played more games due to CC and S14 playoffs, an argument can be made against the fatigue.
The drop in performance could have just been a matter of “job done” for the season. I remember JS saying before the season that the Lions tour, then the Tri-Nations, was what they were gunning for. So perhaps after those were in the bag, their minds were on the beach already.
Just a thought…
3 Dec 2009, 12:04 pm
Guys Tim Noakes is no fool. He has qualifications coming out of his ears and has been internationaly recognised by many institutions worldwide. He knows a little bit more about sports fatigue than the rest of us.
The way rugby is going, players are expected to be stronger, faster and more powerful all the time. This has it’s consequences on the human body i.e increased fatigue and increased likelihood of injuries.
It’s too easy to adopt this “Moffie” style of South African thinking where we tell players to man up.
3 Dec 2009, 12:05 pm
@63Blindspot: didn’t bellitle you, just said your comment was silly, that’s all. you don’t even knwo what my views are…
3 Dec 2009, 12:06 pm
@Yetirat: When all the teams start complaining the same way, sure
3 Dec 2009, 12:09 pm
@mozez22: I think it’s a fair assessment actually, and there’s a word for that -unprofessional.
They are representing their country at the highest level, sorry, they don’t get to decide for themselves which matches are important and which aren’t. If they want to wear the jersey they are expected to give 100% every time (like certain players always do, tired or not). I’ll never slate them for losing a match, as long as they give it their all.
3 Dec 2009, 12:10 pm
yeah they are fatigued
in their heads, thats where the main fatigue is taking shape
rest of their metabolism don’t look in such great shape either, so perhaps somebody better be looking at their fitness levels, don’t look all that hot to me.
This EOYT was very poorly managed, should have taken young and hungry players looking to step up instead of these over played and overrated Ou Ballies
They certainly couldn’t have performed any worse and probably a whole lot better.
3 Dec 2009, 12:11 pm
@Atreides:
Israeli special forces?
are you shitting me?
I have never seen an Israeli play rugby…
but you should understand this all these calls for rest are not coming from the players themselves but from people involved in rugby…it is not a question of physical or mental bravery but rather of how much wear and tear the body can bear…
3 Dec 2009, 12:11 pm
@Atreides:
That’s not to say that all bad performances can be put down to fatigue, the players need to take some responsibility too. Fatigue simply needs to be taken into account as contributing factor, not an all-encompassing excuse.
3 Dec 2009, 12:12 pm
@Yetirat: Thanks for that Dr Noakes. You right maybe a soft underbelly. Got to man up a bit.
3 Dec 2009, 12:13 pm
@skopskiet: No Skop – read what some say about how they practice mate. You might be in the firing line. Oh you are normally in the firing line – so it makes no difference.
3 Dec 2009, 12:14 pm
@Blindspot:
so you hang around the boks training sessions do you?
curious…
3 Dec 2009, 12:15 pm
@Yetirat: Dr I’m also fatigued – you think my boss cares! I have to ensure that I perform day in and day out and I don’t get a rest. Come on now – out the kitchen if it is too hot. They are professional – they know exactly when the games are played. Say before a tour if you are too tired to play and withdraw – Fake an injury then.
3 Dec 2009, 12:17 pm
@gunther: Like hell ja.
3 Dec 2009, 12:17 pm
@skopskiet:
PDV got a taste of success and got greedy. He wanted to end an already almighty year of victories with the cherry on the top, and to do that his plan was simple – keep playing the winning team combinations. Unfortunately it backfired. Lesson learnt. Simple as that.
3 Dec 2009, 12:19 pm
@gunther: LMAO @ “don’t test me muthafc*ka” ha ha ha ha….
3 Dec 2009, 12:21 pm
@77Blindspot: Fake an injury, you just said they should man up. Now THAT, would be unprofessional. The problem is it shouldn’t be up to the players to decide when to or not to play. They should have people planning and organising their seasons. The ones being unprofessional are SA Rugby.
3 Dec 2009, 12:23 pm
@gunther: Argh. Don’t be so literal. I’m making a reference to how much physical abuse the human body can endure, as well as how the mental state affects physical performance. The exhausted body is capable of performing at higher than normal levels if the person is mentally strong enough. Back to my original point…you’ll perform below par if it’s constantly drummed into your head that you’re exhausted. Tell me, in that awesome display of running rugby between France and New Zealand, did any of the All Blacks look exhausted to you? Plodding along, walking to rucks etc? But surely they should? They’ve played as much rugby as we have? Is it incomprehensible to you that maybe the Boks are a) not fit enough or b) do’t have the same mental toughness?
3 Dec 2009, 12:24 pm
@Blindspot:
it’s just that you seem to know exactly how hard they train and how often… I was intrigued as to how you gained this insight if not by attending the sessions?
3 Dec 2009, 12:24 pm
this is a merry-go-round that goes on every year, even last year pdv said the players were “tired & not motivated” after the scotland match and the same noises from the keo journalists about “poor management” blah blah blah…let me go look for that thread again, i’m sure i can find it.
3 Dec 2009, 12:26 pm
Either it was greed or stupidity or else a bit of both, and I wonder if he’d have asked John, Victor, Bakkies, FdP and Schalk if they would prefer to stay home and rest and hit the beach with their loved ones or go on a grueling EOYT what their answer would have been.
Such lessons either get learned or they don’t, I suppose in mitigation one could argue that he’s never been exposed to a proper EOYT before, same as Jake wasn’t in 2004 and who also learned some lessons then.
But if these guys would learn that you play form and not pedigree or reputation first, like Robbie Deans and Henry are trying more or less, you usually stay on the crest and don’t fall into the trough. What has happened here is we allowed the crest to overkill and close out, and now all we left with is the white water still churning and a chafed under belly thats gone all raw by the dumping.
Hope they know how to get up again.
3 Dec 2009, 12:27 pm
@gunther: No I get my info from Mozzez22 – he watches them gym.
3 Dec 2009, 12:27 pm
@Transformation:
too much?
@Atreides:
the all blacks played no rugby since the tri nations boks played the currie cup…
3 Dec 2009, 12:27 pm
@Blindspot:
You have to get away from comparing your view of tiredness at work to that of an international rugby player playing at his peak. They are different worlds my friend. The margin between winning and losing international matches is minimal. You’ll hear coaches saying that week in and week out. The slightest disadvantage can tip the scale.
Statements like “Fake an injury” don’t really give your argument much credibility.
3 Dec 2009, 12:28 pm
@Atreides: But the boks were involved in the once-every-12-years Lions series which I think is mentally harder than the ABs’ games against the French.
3 Dec 2009, 12:30 pm
@Blindspot:
I thought maybe you were part of an elite Israeli special forces unit infiltrating bok training sessions in an effort to learn how to “harden the f**k up”….
carefull you don’t trip over jake white in the bushes there smsing the players their backline drills…
3 Dec 2009, 12:32 pm
@Yetirat: Well rather fake an injury than complain you were too tired to perform. Maybe my job is more physical than you think mate. So don’t get too clever – credibility is important to you isn’t it.
3 Dec 2009, 12:32 pm
@Yetirat: I think you have it spot-on thee buddy.
Hopefully PDiv and the rest of the Bok coaches will wake up a bit. There has to be more than 1 game plan, they need to pre-empt the opposition’s reaction a bit more.
One of the articles on here made some good points about:
- A lack of changing the plan during the game when kick n chase is not working (I would expect Smittie to be up to doing that by now!)
- Having a Plan B
- How can they be surprised by the french? Anyone could’ve guessed what the French were gonna do! The game plan should’ve been different.
If you think back to the Tri Nations, how settled, calm, in control, dominant and unstoppable the Boks were, it shows they can do it and the way they unexpectedly ran at the Aussies in the 2nd test over there was brilliant.
So they can do it, but they needed to do better on this EOYT.
Im sure they have realised this.
3 Dec 2009, 12:37 pm
@Dumb Supporter: In 2005 the British Lions toured NZ and were beaten by the All Blacks, who then went on to win the 3N. Like us this year.
But they then finished the year with a Grand Slam win.
3 Dec 2009, 12:39 pm
@Atreides: Oh and the AB’s whitewashed the Lions. Comprehensively.
3 Dec 2009, 12:39 pm
@BokFanForever: a horses-for-coarse approach would be nice, me thinks. But you can’t just mix and match, either. It’s all good and well picking 22 guys who are on form, but they also have to gel as a unit.
3 Dec 2009, 12:40 pm
@gunther:
Blah.
You really think you can scare me with some cheap vloekwoorde.
3 Dec 2009, 12:41 pm
@90gunther: He is Keo and Gavin Rich’s source in the Bok camp…
3 Dec 2009, 12:42 pm
@gunther:
Tight hamstrings can be sorted with a very sharp knife.
3 Dec 2009, 12:45 pm
@Atreides:
did the all blacks play in their domestic tournament?
no..
have another pie…
3 Dec 2009, 12:46 pm
…….They were great in 2005 but the french rolled over what many people called the black machine in 2007.
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