Baa Baas match ‘not ideal’
3 Dec 2009
Saru couldn’t withdraw the nine Springboks selected for the Barbarians as they had already made an agreement with the club in April.
Peter de Villiers tried to justify the Boks’ minimal preparation time of two days in French conditions before the Toulouse Test as he wanted to make the tour a ‘two and a half week one instead of four weeks’. De Villiers hasn’t had his wish granted as still more than half of the Boks who started against Ireland will spend a week longer up north for the fixture at Twickenham on Saturday.
Saru acting MD Andy Marinos was initially unwilling to speak about the Boks’ involvement in the exhibition match against the All Blacks as the topic of the Boks’ ‘fatigue’ has been a big talking point in recent weeks.
‘We’ve all heard Jake White’s views, so haven’t you guys spoken enough about this issue? But anyways, in April SA Rugby had a request from the Barbarians to have our players released. We spoke to the provincial unions as last year one party was willing to release and the other not, and this year we both agreed to let our players play,’ Marinos told keo.co.za.
Players such as Schalk Burger and Bismarck du Plessis weren’t available for the Boks’ Test against Italy due to injury, but will line-up for the Baa Baas two weeks later. Fourie du Preez – usually a target for all opposition facing him – was also doubtful for the Ireland match, but Marinos played down these worries as he doesn’t believe the risk of injuries at Twickenham will be as great.
Those who watched Schalk Burger clattering into defenders in last year’s Wembley encounter or seeing two Australian props being stretchered off would disagree.
‘We couldn’t withdraw certain players as the Barbarians had selected their team and based a model around those players, so we couldn’t do that to them,’ said Marinos. ‘Im confident our medical team did all the work at the end of the tour and they would’ve pulled guys who they were worried about.
‘In hindsight, given the year we’ve had, it’s not ideal – the players have to spend another week on tour and run the risk of injury. But we must take the match in context. The week’s build-up is not as tough, and Baa Baas matches aren’t the same intensity as Tests.’
On Monday De Villiers called for more rest as the players were physically and mentally drained after the year, but Victor Matfield, Danie Rossouw, Beast Mtawarira, Bryan Habana, Morne Steyn, Jaque Fourie, Du Preez, Du Plessis and Burger will get one more hit-out.
Looking ahead to 2010, Marinos said the priority shouldn’t be the players’ franchises, but the Boks.
‘Do you rest the players for the Super 14, or for the Boks? The media want them to play Super Rugby, but that’s skewed, the Boks must get the most of them. When the Boks are strong and successful, it benefits all of South African rugby. We’ve done advanced planning for 2010, and told all our stakeholders those plans.
‘We’ve got an invitation to open the new Aviva Stadium [against Ireland] and a fixture against the Baa Baas, but we need those as we look to unearth talent before the World Cup. We know we have to manage the players. They can’t miss huge blocks like the All Blacks did in 2007, but they have to be managed by their Super 14 teams.’
By Grant Ball
429 Comments
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3 Dec 2009, 16:38 pm
@Nick Armstrong: yes, thanks nick for enlightening our lives with your brand of the truth…the blog owes you a great deal…
Simon you have lekker friends boet, with IQs of over 75 to boot…
3 Dec 2009, 16:40 pm
Is Maak Konyn still one of the writers here on this website?
3 Dec 2009, 16:40 pm
@Simon: Afternoon Simon….well I am me and I even interrupted you during your lunch way back in June….so I do exist!
It’s all going on here!! (Again)!!
3 Dec 2009, 16:43 pm
@carol:
Carol
Did he offer you some of his gatsby or chip roll?
3 Dec 2009, 16:43 pm
I find it amazing that the self proclaimed “non PC” brigade always pass their opinion as known facts. So let’s examine these “truths”, which Nick obviously holds to be self evident.
Almost every previous WC winning team failed to keep the same momentum in the following year.
The main squad PdeV took on the EOYT was the same one he’d used all year. The others were an experiment for the midweek games only.
BJ and CJ, as overseas players, were never in consideration except as an emergency. The same rule is applied, even more strictly, by both the NZRU and ARU in order to protect the S14 as the stepping stone to national selection.
JW inherited the bulk of his squad, he didn’t build it from scratch.
Any more truths?
3 Dec 2009, 16:44 pm
Best master of ceremonies I ever heard was Mike Raffone.
3 Dec 2009, 16:45 pm
@Sheriff: Hi Sheriff, I think there was some sort of ‘pickle’ type stuff in his lunch box!! He was not going out blowing the Keo expenses budget!!
3 Dec 2009, 16:45 pm
What is gatsby anyway?
3 Dec 2009, 16:46 pm
@Dantalian:
hahahaha
keep them coming buddy
3 Dec 2009, 16:47 pm
@carol:
A traditional Cape health snack
3 Dec 2009, 16:48 pm
@Nick Armstrong: #151
I don’t think anybody can take your claim of a 75+ IQ serious. Not after your rants here today.
Enjoy your miserable life.
3 Dec 2009, 16:48 pm
@Sheriff: hardly healthy!
3 Dec 2009, 16:48 pm
Not many people know that Dart Vader also had a daughter.
Se a lift technician – Ella Vader.
3 Dec 2009, 16:49 pm
@Sheriff:
I think Simon and co put up with meagre salaries as a trade off for being allowed to pontificate at their leisure.
3 Dec 2009, 16:49 pm
Se a = She is a…
3 Dec 2009, 16:50 pm
Here is another definition:
A Gatsby is a long bread roll / baguette – usually big enough for two, three or even four to share – sliced lengthwise and stuffed with a selection of fillings.
These include:
steak masala (
mutton
chicken
polony
vienna
calamari
fish
hot chips (French fries) (a must-have – otherwise it isn’t a Gatsby)
salad (if you like)
a range of special sauces to soak through the whole thing.
3 Dec 2009, 16:50 pm
@Simon: shut up simon, you gatgabba nick here started all the ****, we don’t hear you reigning him in! Suck it up buddy!
3 Dec 2009, 16:50 pm
@carol:
Great Gatsby – a book by F Scott Fitzgerald, a critique of the decadence in the USA (east Coast) in the 1920s
In terms of food, its alles/lots of goodies in a roll you eat
3 Dec 2009, 16:51 pm
Dart = Darth. Jissus I’m not even drinking.
3 Dec 2009, 16:51 pm
Wow, so Nick is being praised for blogging with his own name. Did not know that was a prerequisite for blogging on keo.co.za and that we were all disobeying the rules. Good for him anyway.
Now please folks, dont get sucked in by Nick and Simon. Ever since Mark started his bromance with Jake, Simon has felt left out. This is his moment to shine, so let him shine.
We all have better things to do/discuss then the mudslinging Nick is trying to get all and sundry involved in with his shock*horror statements.
We all have opinions, people like Nick will not change theirs so debating with him wont help. My suggestion, read his posts, take your pinch of salt and move along. The more attention he gets the longer he’ll linger (for a classic case of whats happening here take the examle of ThamsideBoksomethingorother who stopped blogging after PdV won the B&I Tour and 3N).
3 Dec 2009, 16:52 pm
@David:
Was a tough year for them.
But they’re still standing, despite the hostile breakaway
3 Dec 2009, 16:54 pm
I have an Italian friend who loves the outdoors – Al Fresco.
3 Dec 2009, 16:55 pm
People – my comments re PdV, while not necessarily ‘kosher’, were actually meant to direct focus to his rugby acumen – which is negligible… Fact.
Do we really have to go through a litany of examples here…?? From ommitting Heinrich Brussow from his first squad, to the shambles of his substitutions, to his team selections (JS at no.3??), to his European tour squad selections…the list goes on. And that’s just this year…we won’t even go to 2008…
Then – to juxtaposition that against what Jake White achieved – FACT. Then all of a sudden I’m a ‘racist’ living overseas…??? Huh?
Or – do you REALLY think Bandisa Maku and Chiliboy Ralepelle are better hookers than Adriaan Strauss and Tiaan Liebenberg??? That Ricky Januarie is a better scrum-half than Ruan Pienaar?? That BJ Botha and CJ vd Linde are not the best tight-heads available for SA??? The list goes on…
You see – when the coach makes such GLARINGLY OBVIOUS quota selections – like the selection of Maku and Ralepelle before Strauss and Liebenberg (just one example) – do you guys HONESTLY think no-one is going to sit up and ask: WTF???
Why did Jake have to go in the first place??? That’s all we’re asking?? What team, in any sport, FIRES their WORLD CUP WINNING coach almost immediately after winning…??? Except in SA… Why, people may, quite understandably, ask?? To accommodate “Transformation” – that’s why.
Then when we question this – or criticise this – we are the ‘racists’…??? Go figure. But those who enforce “Transformation” are not ‘racists’ themselves…?? Go figure.
The situation is a ‘laughing stock’ to the outside world… They know the truth and the reasons why.
I have always, always advocated – the best player for the job – with the best coach and management personnel! Irrespective of race. I’m truly proud – and support with all my heart – every player – of every race – that has DESERVED his/her place in the team.
I don’t “hate” anyone. What I won’t do, however – is respect quotas – nor do I respect favouritism, nor cronyism (which is rife in our cricket team, by the way).
Cheers!
3 Dec 2009, 16:56 pm
@Sheriff:
Good luck to them. Personally I find the differences of opinion invigorating rather than threatening. I think it’s called communication.
3 Dec 2009, 16:59 pm
Simon, next time you ask one of your friends to be controversial in order to generate more hits, don’t use this idiot. Don’t you trust your own abilities any more? Come on man, we know you can do it on your own.
If you want people to post under there real names, just make it obligatory when they sign up on this blog. Simple really.
3 Dec 2009, 17:00 pm
there=their
3 Dec 2009, 17:03 pm
@David:
Its the “eendrag maak mag” campaign that made people believe that it is incorrect to disagree
3 Dec 2009, 17:04 pm
Mates – take it easy.
Cheers.
3 Dec 2009, 17:06 pm
Oh, I get it. Nick Armstrong is Mark Keohane. Just read 223.
But then his isn’t blogging under his real name, Simon. Are you lying to us, Simon?
3 Dec 2009, 17:07 pm
@Dantalian: did you know Bruce lee had a brother called UG ?
3 Dec 2009, 17:08 pm
Have I told you about my lumberjack friend – Tim Burr?
3 Dec 2009, 17:08 pm
his=he
3 Dec 2009, 17:09 pm
@poppa69: No I didn’t.
3 Dec 2009, 17:11 pm
@Dantalian: or that blogger Kobus Kitty’s real name is Wayne Kerr
3 Dec 2009, 17:12 pm
Did you guys know that Tupac Shakur had a lesser-known bodybuilding brother, Sixpac?
3 Dec 2009, 17:14 pm
@ David – yes – however – we could still have used these players based overseas.
Secondly -there-in lies the mistake re the EOYT – he should’ve listened to what Prof Noakes has been trying to say ad nauseum – the players need 8 to 10 weeks CONSISTENT rest – especially after a year like this – with the Lions in June…
He should’ve rested the entire Tri-Nations run-on pack amongst other players like Fourie du Preez and Bryan Habana. Then taken players on the fringes, and other Tri-Nations squad members who did not play in all the Tests – eg Andries Bekker and Danie Rossouw.
Thirdly – you also think his combinations of loose-forwards were right, by any chance??? That Danie Rossouw is a flank?? He’s a lock – full stop. Ask the BB management who perfected his use…
Oh yes – and do you remember before Pierre Spies’ injury – PdV was planning on dropping Heinrich Brussow for the Test vs France…??? Go figure that piece of rugby rocket-science out…
As for the “experiments” with “the other players” for the mid-week games – then why not “experiment” with the genuine ‘next best’ – eg Adriaan Strauss at hooker – and not his quota selections…??
Jake did inherit certain players – yes, obviously – yet he inherited a team, a morale, and a game-plan in a shambles. That is my point. He gave that team structure, a game-plan, and a ‘fresh start’. I would’ve thought that was quite apparent…
Again – my point is while he inherited a shambles after RWC 2003 – PdV inherited a champion team after RWC 2007, on the threshold of its prime. Again – I would’ve thought that’s obvious… My error.
3 Dec 2009, 17:15 pm
Who are the boks set to play here? anyone?
3 Dec 2009, 17:20 pm
That 800m champ of ours is also thinking of changing her name to get away from all the negative publicity. She will in future be known as Tess Steckle.
3 Dec 2009, 17:21 pm
@WP Till I Die: No but I know about the overweight “pie eating” brother called cooler box.
3 Dec 2009, 17:22 pm
@Dantalian: lmao
3 Dec 2009, 17:25 pm
@poppa69: and did you know that the australian cricketer David Hookes was the first batsmen to be killed by a bouncer?
3 Dec 2009, 17:25 pm
@genesfut:
Howzit, as follows:
June 12 – France at Newlands
June 19 – Italy (TBC)
June 26 – Italy (TBC)
July 10 – NZ (Auckland)
July 17 – NZ (Wellington)
July 24 – Australia (Brisbane)
August 21 – NZ (Coca-Cola Park)
August 28 – Australia (Loftus)
September 4 – Australia (Bloemfontein)
3 Dec 2009, 17:27 pm
@WP Till I Die: isnt the game vs France being moved ? definitely isnt the same lead in to the 3Ns as the Lions provided…
3 Dec 2009, 17:30 pm
@WP Till I Die: Brisbane again? Another one lost on Aussie soil.
3 Dec 2009, 17:32 pm
@poppa69:
Not sure…
Agreed, Italy’s not the best lead in
3 Dec 2009, 17:36 pm
@Nick Armstrong:
Keo, what you guys always seem to omit is how one-dimensional and uselss the Boks were at times pre-RWC under Jake White. Be honest, before Eddie Jones joined the setup, how confident were you that the Boks were going to win the RWC?
3 Dec 2009, 17:39 pm
@WP Till I Die:
so, once again we get 2×3 games consecutively.
Actually, it happens every year with the new format.
and some kiwis reckon we get a kind draw – wtf???
3 Dec 2009, 17:44 pm
@charo: I agree Charo, you should play one in the republic, one in NZ, one in the republic, then one in Aussie, then back to the republic, then one again in NZ…
sounds a lot fairer to me… I mean, we’ve all seen that the travel must really get you guys fatigued when you travel to the NH
3 Dec 2009, 17:46 pm
@ Yetirat – the Boks were mostly very good, and at times brilliant, for 3 years under JW. Only 2006 was a mess (overall)…
Confident – I won’t say over-confident – and, yes, you are quite correct – the addition of Eddie Jones was a master-stroke. Then – credit to JW for noticing that, realising where and how he could bolster his coaching/ management team – and went and got Eddie.
Had JW kept his post – no doubt – Eddie would stayed with him (I’m assuming here, I don’t know). No one can deny – the 2 of them – with Gert Smal and Alistair Coetzee as the permanent assistant coaches were a fantastic team.
Let me also say – I’m not only criticising PdV here – I think Gary Gold and **** Muir have (finally) been ‘found out’. Gary Gold is useless – where on earth did he come from…?? He was useless at the Stormers/WP – even more so with the Boks…but, somehow, he’s on the team…
3 Dec 2009, 17:48 pm
I say its a great pity that Jake White didn’t have the courage or strength of will or commitment to take on the Bok job after the World Cup 2007. Nobody fired him, he made himself unavailable for selection in other words he resigned. He was playing a cat and mouse game with Saru who asked him if he wanted the job he should apply, everyone of his confidants including Tim Noakes and Mark Keohane urged him not to consider another term as Bok coach for his own health and sanity’s sake.
The pity is had he been brave enough to take it on, and lets say Saru would have given him the nod, then we could have seen whether he was at all the great coach that all his disciples are saying he is now. Its never been proved, because other than negotiating the Springbok team through a series of wins at the 2007 World Cup which if did in tandem with the age of a qualified and experienced ex Australian coach, starting with Samoa, England, Usa, Tonga, Fiji, Argentina, and England again, none of which teams should have posed a threat to ANY Springbok coach anywhere anytime whatsoever, including Pdv, Jake never really produced much else to really get excited about.
His record reads around 45% wins in the Tri nations, less than 50% wins on Eoyt’s, around 20% success against France home and away, 50% success against Ireland both home and away, around 33% success against New Zealand home and away. So whichever way his champion supporters like to saint his great success story, its actually very mediocre in real Sa rugby expectations terms.
So some these pap sak painting ranters really don’t have really too much of a clue as to what they actually ranting about. Why weren’t they ranting like this while we were losing hand over fist and with some huge unheard of losses to some of our rivals at the height of Whites tenure in 2006. Where we these pap sak merit seeking enthusiasts then?
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