IRB blocks Blacks raid
3 Dec 2009
The International Rugby Board has rejected New Zealand’s appeal to ease eligibility laws to allow players from the Pacific Islands to switch national allegiance.
Essentially New Zealand were hoping that players who have represented Fiji, Samoa and Tonga – all tier 2 nations – would be eligible for All Blacks selection after a 12 month wait.
However, the IRB, at a meeting in Dublin, opposed the move, reinforcing their stance that a player will only represent one country for life.
The interchange between the four nations concerned would primarily have benefited New Zealand, but the likes of Fijian-born Joe Rokocoko and Samoan-born Jerry Collins, both out of favour with the All Blacks selectors, could have pursued an international career with their country of birth.
New Zealand Rugby Union CEO Steve Tew said the IRB had expressed concerns about the legality of the move, which appeared to favour players of some ethnicities over others.
‘The optimists thought we might get it through. The reality is there is a group of northern unions that is very nervous about strengthening the island nations,’ Tew said.
‘There are also people who are rightly nervous about a regulation that could be discriminatory, even if it is a positive discrimination.’
Tew, however, stressed that they would continue to pursue the request through the IRB’s regulations committee.
‘It has been sent back to the regulations committee. There are a number of legal rows around whether or not it is discriminatory to select someone based on their heritage and it needs more work, but I stress we have not lost it,’ he said. ‘It is unlikely to happen before the next World Cup, although you never quite know.’
89 Comments
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3 Dec 2009, 12:43 pm
If the IRB had allowed this, why not change the law and let EVERYONE play for ANY country (highest bidder) as/when they want !! No, the AB’s can’t have it all ways…..unless they also condone half of their team signing on for Japan !!
3 Dec 2009, 12:52 pm
According to every other report (for examples see news24 or rugby365) the request was for players to be allowed to move the other way – from tier 1 to tier 2 – thereby strengthing Pacific Island teams.
3 Dec 2009, 13:31 pm
@gecko: that must NEVER be allowed, otherwise all our older players will go play for a second tier team like australia or england
3 Dec 2009, 13:42 pm
@gecko:
That could kinda work…..
3 Dec 2009, 13:45 pm
How pathetic this article is.
Yesterdays on the very same topic was ‘ABs could face expats’ which, correctly, focussed on the eligibility rule that would allow players who have played for ABs/Aus/Eng/whoever to then play for an ancestral nation.
Now that the IRB voted against it – fearing their own interests being affected – it has suddenly turned in to an anti-NZ angle, which is complete cr@p.
Opportunistic ‘journalism’ at its worst.
3 Dec 2009, 13:47 pm
@gecko: I agree. My understanding was that it was suppose to strengthen Tier 2 teams and not the likes of NZ and Eng. What this was suppose to accomplish was that players like Beast/Mujati/Chavanga can go back to Zim and play for them. As it stands Mujati and Chavange will never play international rugny again.
THis is a Bullsh*t headline designed to generate hits.
3 Dec 2009, 13:49 pm
I think the facts in this article are just not true.
3 Dec 2009, 13:51 pm
@WakaNathan:
IRB voted against it because the NH countries are scared the lslanders are going to thump them in world cups. Wales already always loose to the island sides in the WC.
3 Dec 2009, 13:52 pm
GECKO: exactly!!! Is this how journalists work in South Africa??? The article has been tampered with and falsified. I presume that was done by keo.co.za – and they have just thrown their credibility out of the window.
Anyway, it is pretty obvious what’s going on when you read down to the quote from Steve Tew. And in any event, why would the All Blacks want to pick players from the national teams of Samoa, Fiji, or Tonga!! Exactly who would we be talking about there!! No, it is because some of the NZ players of Island descent (grandparents born in the islands etc) want to contribute to Island rugby by representing them at the end of their careers. After all, at one point the entire Samoan rugby team was born in New Zealand, so its not such a stretch to allow other New Zealanders born of Samoan descent into the Samoan team – the only catch is whether they’ve represented New Zealand or not at any age grade. It seems a bit rough.
What passes for “journalism” on this site is astonishing!
3 Dec 2009, 13:54 pm
Now we need to start the whole ABs cherry picking the Islander players debate ..
Next the NZRU will be ripping the kids of the school bus …ha ha
3 Dec 2009, 13:55 pm
@WakaNathan:
You should be accustomed to this **** by now. These ‘journalists’ are glorified whores at the best of times. Totally agree, **** stirring article by gutter rat journalists.
3 Dec 2009, 13:56 pm
The proposal being that, after a one year sabbatical, players be permitted to switch from tier one to tier two nations & represent them at a national level. The proposal was borne from an idea to help lift tier two Nation’s skills while allowing players to give back to the land of their heritage.
The current All Blacks team includes several players either born in the Islands or who have Pacific heritage through parents or grandparents, but this rule would also benefit national teams on the African continent & across Europe as rugby becomes more global and players cross borders.
The change would particularly have benefited Pacific Island nations (who the IRB are always making noises about wanting to help) such as Fiji, Samoa and Tonga, who would have been able to call on players who might have ended international careers for other nations.
3 Dec 2009, 13:58 pm
@Sonito:
Exactly what I said, and exactly what the previous article on this Vote said.
I think it would be great to strengthen those Tier 2 nations, which is what NZ was supporting. So why has Ryan falling in to the same old same old boring trap of turning it in to a NZ-witch hunt ?
No mention that guys like Dougie Howlett, AB record-tryscorer, could then turn out for Tonga thru ancestral roots, despite being a 2nd-Gen Kiwi ?
3 Dec 2009, 13:58 pm
@jamisz:
Its actually a pretty good idea. It will really help strengthen international rugby and especially SH rugby.
3 Dec 2009, 14:01 pm
@WakaNathan:
It will definately add alot more spice to NZ vs Islander games.
3 Dec 2009, 14:08 pm
I’m all for it….beef up the Islands.
Only good for World Rugby.
3 Dec 2009, 14:11 pm
The “journalist” concerned is “Ryan”. (See the top right corner of this page). Smart guy: he didn’t provide his last name.
I see also that he claimed to *write* this article! I guess that is true in part – the pieces that weren’t plagiarized were falsified by him to fit the version of events he wishes were true. These parts are certainly pure fiction.
Putting aside red-neck agendas, the bigger picture is a sorry one as JAMISZ so rightly points out. The IRB and NH in general bleat on like this Ryan guy does with non-facts about NZ stealing islanders (off buses!). But when a constructive idea is put forward they are the first to shoot it down. They do *nothing* to support Island rugby. They suck all the funds out of the World cup for their first class travel and talk-fests in fancy hotels. Have you seen the IRB head office in Dublin???? Sellin git would finance Island rugby for ever. They put nothing back into grass roots Island rugby. They suck the best Island players into the clubs of Europe – and after 3 years they are suddenly playing for England or Scotland! They have the ignorance and arrogance to claim NZ is not supporting Island rugby, when in fact the Island teams consist in large part of New Zealanders and are based in New Zealand.
3 Dec 2009, 14:14 pm
@Sonito:
It would be sensational if 1 of them could beat them. Not too many people in NZ would complain either.
Remember, the opening match of RWC’11 is NZ vs Tonga. Imagine how much more exciting that would have been if those blind self-serving idiots at IRB had allowed this ruling ?
The ABs have never played in Samoa either, which must be corrected asap. Strangely, the only thing holding Samoan rugby IN Samoa back, is their lack of a Test-size field. The current one in Apia is shorter and narrower than International standards allow. It used to have a tree in-goal. But now they have bigger matters to contemplate than rugby fields, with tsunami-recovery much higher on the To Do list.
3 Dec 2009, 14:23 pm
And it’s a bloody good thing too!
We cant have the kiwi’s raping and pillaging any more human resources than they do now!
Ridiculous! Well done IRB
3 Dec 2009, 14:32 pm
@WP_: I think WP is a bit slow on the up-take…
3 Dec 2009, 14:33 pm
Well I change my tune after reading the comments.
It’s sad that Islanders who have 1 or 2 caps or something similar for the ABs cannot go back and play for the country of their birth.
The ABs selectors often give an islander a cap or two so that they cannot play their homeland, which is wrong. But it happens
3 Dec 2009, 14:34 pm
Thanks for that Henry! haha
3 Dec 2009, 14:36 pm
@WP_: Read most of the above post. Ryan neglected the part that the proposal was only for movement from Tier 1 to Tier 2!!
3 Dec 2009, 14:38 pm
@WP_: I change my tune after reading your 2nd response.
3 Dec 2009, 14:40 pm
(yawn)
Switching bloody allegiance? Name me a few examples for players in current or past Fiji, Samoa, Tonga squad who have any chance to be included in NZ squad.
Even brilliant Cacau with his huge disciplinary problems have no chance whatsoever.
New Zealand is full of Polynesian and Melanesian people to choose from. They all arrived themselves with their parents, not imported in slave ships, as Mr. Ryan would like us to believe (and majority of folks here readily believe in all that ****).
I bet 2 years old Mils Muliaina was Western Samoa rugby played when he arrived in NZ – solely to be poached by the ABs, no doubt. Joe Rokocoko had, of course, long and splendid career in Fiji colours in his 5 years. And on and on.
Except probably Sivivatu – and only because he was a teenager, not milk sucking infant as almost all others – nobody at all had rugby career of any kind started in his home country.
Pillaged and raped PI? Guys here seriously are snorting something of very low quality.
3 Dec 2009, 14:42 pm
Fair enough WP!
Actually I think you’ll find there are very few Islanders – i.e. people born or raised in the Islands – who get a cap or 2 and then can’t play for that Island nation. I’m sure it has happened – I can’t think who though. The vast majority of individuals of Island descent who play in New Zealand are NZ-born and/or raised.
Remember that almost 25% of the New Zealand population is of Island descent…. In the NH they seem to forget that!
3 Dec 2009, 14:47 pm
@HenryFraser: I can name you vice versa example – Isa Nacewa, former Auckland/Blues player (now in Munster, I guess).
He has one Fiji cap – being on the pitch in the WC2003 as a substitute for a minute or so. He never played for Fiji again and IRB repeatedly rejected his pleas to allow him to play for the ABs.
3 Dec 2009, 14:54 pm
Sione Luaki was also poached… Am I wrong…
3 Dec 2009, 14:55 pm
@WP_: “The ABs selectors often give an islander a cap or two so that they cannot play their homeland, which is wrong. But it happens”
Please, could you name examples?
3 Dec 2009, 14:56 pm
Its amazing how myths persist. I suppose a psychologist would say they are perpetuated to detract from the short-comings of their creators. They are often also rooted in racism or some other form of prejudice.
For example: supporters of rugby teams that suck claim NZ steals players from the Islands when they see some Polynesian faces in the All Black team. This is usually a NH thing – Australians don’t tend to do it. Reason: NH rugby teams generally suck, and they are also ignorant to NZ’s cultural mix. It doesn’t explian why many South Africans bleat on like the NH though.
Another example, to be fair, would be NZers perpetually ragging on Aussies for being crass because they are sons and daughters of convicts. I’m not sure what shortcoming we Kiwis are trying to hide from there, but I’m sure its something!!
3 Dec 2009, 14:57 pm
@WP_: OK, that’s 2. Him and Sivivatu.
2 is “often”?
3 Dec 2009, 15:02 pm
@WP_: LMFAO!!!!!!! Is this the time for you to wake up?
3 Dec 2009, 15:04 pm
Ryan I hope your stupidity is a deformity and not a trait that can be passed down generations.
3 Dec 2009, 15:05 pm
@HenryFraser: I do not think you will find that much direct descendants of real convicts from British empire in Australia, as it is full of immigrants from all parts of the world nowdays.
Just the myth lives on.
3 Dec 2009, 15:12 pm
@WP_: WP_ – you are absolutely right. Sione Luaki was poached by New Zealand. Of course, he went to Birdwood Primary School in New Zealand so that must mean he was poached at under the age of 10 (or at a stretch 12, depending on the rules of the school). Those AB talent scounts are incredible – being able to spot talent and poach it at that age! I wonder what sort of contract they offered him…?
Sorry for sounding sarcastic, but it is the same old story usually put out in the NH. Stephen Jones once wrote in the Times newspaper in England that the entire backline of the ABs had been poached from Samoa. Makes you wonder what other nonsense the Times is willing to publish…. Anyway, a lot of immigration to NZ comes from the islands and I guess its natural for some of the Island kids to grow up playing rugby through the NZ school system.
3 Dec 2009, 15:14 pm
@WP_:
“rape and pillage !!!!”
er
DOH !
Engage brain.
before
Opening mouth.
3 Dec 2009, 15:14 pm
29 Nils
For starters…
Soseni Anesi
John Schwalger
Saimone Taumoepeau
Casey Laulala
Kevin Senio
3 Dec 2009, 15:15 pm
@Nils: @25
I dont know why you bother. I stopped caring whether these numbskulls thought that years ago.
And wasnt the ‘Beast eligibility’ story a funny one.
3 Dec 2009, 15:18 pm
@WP_: WP – I think we’re back to 1, unless we’re still counting 8 year-olds. Sivivatu.
There could be 1 or 2 more, its not like I’m obsessed by this silly myth, like most of the NH seems to be!
3 Dec 2009, 15:18 pm
36 Waka
That was light hearted. Lighten up!
By the way, Luaki played for the Pacific Islanders in 2004 against the Boks, Wally’s and ABs.
I know they didnt count as tests but it means he was in line to get picked for the country of his birth does it not
3 Dec 2009, 15:23 pm
Nils, Henry
Ok, so maybe I exaggerated a bit… Forgive me..
3 Dec 2009, 15:24 pm
I think keo.co.za might have it wrong here.
From what I gathered on the whole affair, it was to let players who had represented tier 1 countries the opportunity to play for tier 2 countries after 1 year.
So Jerry Collins could go and play for Samoa but some Samoan couldn’t come and play for the AB’s.
3 Dec 2009, 15:57 pm
@HenryFraser:
hold on a minute.
before throwing any reputation out of the window, they’d have to climb out the window, find it, bring it back inside, THEN throw it out…
3 Dec 2009, 16:07 pm
wow Ryan Vrede… is this the only way you can get anyone to read your articles these days? by out and out slander? guess we know you have no semblance of integrity, or for that matter intelligence..
still, at least people like Kobus kitty and Whatever will love you, they will be able to come on to this blog and prance around the misinformation in your title that you so callously tacked to an article you obviously cut and paste from somewhere else…
I just wonder, have you be sued for Libel yet ???
3 Dec 2009, 17:31 pm
This is a ridiculous article. Where does this anti-NZ sentiment come from? NZRU was attempting to promote this concept to strengthen tier 2 teams such as Samoa, Tonga, Fiji etc. The flaw is that it loosens eligibility rules, edging closer to the problematic rugby league eligibility rules which are too open. Either way, the guy that wrote this article should be ashamed.
3 Dec 2009, 17:34 pm
good thing irb saw through this little nz ruse.
what better way of enticing more island players into nz?
come along chaps so we can have a look at you. we might even pick you for a game or two.
but don’t worry, if it doesn’t work out, you can always go home and continue to play international rugby.
perfect.
3 Dec 2009, 17:42 pm
@WP_: It’s OK, all in boundaries of a banter.
Senio was born in Auckland, NZ, by the way. All others , except Saimone Taumoepeau (who has heard of him in the last 4-5 years?) came as a young kids when their parents emmigrated from their respective islands.
3 Dec 2009, 17:49 pm
Getting exemptions like this always benefit the richer countries, which use it as a loophole. Sure, there may be some older NZ players that will turn out for island nations when their careers are almost over, but it would just as easily make the PI nations even more of a NZ and AUS development team.
Remember Murray Mexted being almost orgasmic at the thought of poacing Caucau to play for NZ?
3 Dec 2009, 17:51 pm
@sinba556: Rubbish. NZ never promotes pacific island rugby, only when it suits themselves. Otherwise they would never has resisted the PI inclusion into the SANZAR tournaments as much as they did.
3 Dec 2009, 17:57 pm
@charo:
there is always one fool.
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