Saffas thwart hosts
20 Dec 2009
Despite a late onslaught from Friedel de Wet, Kevin Pietersen and Jonathan Trott provided enough earlier resistance as England forced a draw at Centurion.
The South African-born and -schooled pair came together during the first hour at 27-3, but then looked to have taken the sting out of the hosts’ attack. They batted for over a session and a half after South Africa had got the ideal start as Alastair Cook and night watchman James Anderson were dismissed early.
During the middle session, the South African attack looked largely harmless, but Pietersen committed batting suicide as he took a run straight to the fielder and was left stranded on 81. That sparked a period where six wickets fell in the final session and five with the new ball.
De Wet sent a late flurry in the England changing room with his wickets of Trott, Ian Bell and Matt Prior, aided by brilliant catching from AB de Villiers and Mark Boucher, but ultimately it was too little too late. Morne Morkel trapped Graeme Swann LBW, and the hosts had 19 balls to claim the final wicket.
Captain Graeme Smith then allowed emotion to get in the way as he handed centurion Makhaya Ntini the final over the day, when De Wet had taken three wickets in his seven over spell. Graham Onions had little trouble seeing off Ntini, who was wicketless throughout the innings.
It could have been so different for the South Africans as they missed two earlier chances in the middle session. De Wet had Pietersen plum LBW but was no-balled for over-stepping the mark, and JP Duminy fumbled the ball when Trott was stranded after another crazy Pietersen single.
South Africa will be happy that they could possibly have Dale Steyn and Jacques Kallis – who bowled three overs throughout the match – to return to bolster their attack, but will realise this was an opportunity missed.
The South African selectors will also have a big decision to make in deciding what role Ntini has to play in the next Test after De Wet’s success.
South Africa – 1st innings – 418
Jacques Kallis 120, JP Duminy 56, Mark Boucher 49, Graeme Swann 5-110.
England – 1st innings – 356
Graeme Swann 85, Paul Collingwood 50, Andrew Strauss 46, Paul Harris 5-123.
South Africa – 2nd innings – 301-7 declared
Hashim Amla 100, AB de Villiers 64, Mark Boucher 63*, James Anderson 4-73
England – 2nd innings – 228-9
Jonathan Trott 69, Kevin Pietersen 81, Friedel de Wet 4-55
The match was drawn
Click here for full scorecard.
137 Comments
20 Dec 2009, 10:07 am
rain rain go away so we can win.
20 Dec 2009, 10:10 am
See a quite a bit of cloud cover there. Hope the rain stays away. Overcast is fine just please no rain.
Probably suit the bowlers too with the overcast conditions.
Go Proteas.
20 Dec 2009, 10:14 am
Cmon Morkel! Bounce these pasty saffa Poms!
20 Dec 2009, 10:15 am
Ya, heard there were storms there last night…
Overcast and cloudy will be great. If we get a full day in I cant see England batting for all of it
20 Dec 2009, 11:35 am
Playing right now. All 13 players on the field are South African
Please bowl out Trott and KP our Saffa Poms….
20 Dec 2009, 11:55 am
Get these bloody saffas out!
In other news i’ve just seen John Smit at the shops signing books.
Great man, absolute legend. Looking huge and mean too
20 Dec 2009, 12:03 pm
Come on Harro. Your best chance to get a 10 wicket haul a match.
Good morning all.
20 Dec 2009, 12:07 pm
England trying to bat out the day or waiting for rain to save their butts. Batting at less than 2 rpo at the moment. Not the right way to try and avoid defeat, I think.
20 Dec 2009, 12:22 pm
We struggling to bowl them out. Maybe needed Parnell I think. He can vary it up. Wish D. Steyn was not injured too.
Rain will save them I think. Going to be a draw if we don’t get a wicket soon.
20 Dec 2009, 12:23 pm
@WP_: WP, Someone here said they saw John at the gym and he looked super fit. Good to hear that.
20 Dec 2009, 12:26 pm
@Puma:
I had my doubts about this bowling attack taking 20 wickets from day one.
20 Dec 2009, 12:30 pm
@nama1: 11 – Nama, Don’t think we will bowl them out. If we take a quick two wickets now we may have a chance. They looking comfortable out there (Trott and KP) Needed someone like Parnell. Hope he gets selected for the Durban test and that D. Steyn is over his injury and ready to come back into the side too.
20 Dec 2009, 12:36 pm
Trott thinki he’s playing a timeless test.
KP will always give chances, it’s just the way he plays.
With some luck we should be able to bowl them out but it’ll be tough.
Come on harry. big session after lunch
20 Dec 2009, 12:37 pm
@WP_:
Trott grew up watching Jacques Kallis play, so do not blame him for batting like a snail
20 Dec 2009, 12:49 pm
Morkel really disappoints me. All that height and good speed, but he still just don’t seem to get it right. I know some will most probably blame Vinnie Barnes again.
20 Dec 2009, 12:54 pm
Puma,I saw him at the gym with the other Sharks guys,reckon he’s in the best shape of his career..
20 Dec 2009, 13:03 pm
@Winston: Yes, Remember now it was you that told me. Thanks Winston. Good to know that John is keeping in good shape and keeping fit over the festive season.
20 Dec 2009, 13:08 pm
Yeah,thats why I get so shocked when people question his work ethic,he has nothing left to prove yet he still motivates himself to keep going. What a legend.
20 Dec 2009, 13:15 pm
No one is criticising Smits commitment. Go read the SA Rugby Magazine…..every singlejournalist saying Smit MUST go back to 2…..personally i dont care what shape Smit is in, as long as he is not masqueraded as a tighthead for the boks…..if the sharks want to continue down that barren path so be it….
but Smit at 3 for the boks and i ckoke on the turkey!
20 Dec 2009, 13:22 pm
@Winston: 18 – Winston, John is a legend for sure. Our greatest Bok captain ever. He does everything for the team.
20 Dec 2009, 13:31 pm
We will only appreciate his true value to the team when he retires.. Kind of like Jacques Kallis in our cricket side.
20 Dec 2009, 13:38 pm
@Winston: 21 – Agree 100%. Just like we know now what we had in Frans Steyn that we have lost him to France. Sad actually.
20 Dec 2009, 13:52 pm
Lets not even go there.. My heart is broken now that Frans is gone,what a waste,the only man that can kick a ball from 60 metres at sea level over the poles.. Lets hope we get him back sooner rather than later
20 Dec 2009, 14:22 pm
@Winston: 23 – Winston, Agree hope we get Fransie back before the world cup. No-one in world rugby can kick that distance. Will always remember those monster kicks he kicked in that last Tri-Nations test against NZ. Awesome.
20 Dec 2009, 14:30 pm
Looks like this will be a draw. Just can not see us bowling them out let alone Trott and KP the saffa poms
Just hope the test in Durban we get the full 5 days in. Have had plenty rain here the past few weeks.
20 Dec 2009, 15:45 pm
KP has just taken a poo with his clothes on… extraordinary…
20 Dec 2009, 15:51 pm
KP got himself run out there. Must have had a brain explosion…hehe. Not even sure why he ran
20 Dec 2009, 17:34 pm
All these experts who canned de wet must be feeling slightly embraboer right now…probably slightly less than the ones that slated Boucher … overseas commentators are raving about him..
20 Dec 2009, 17:38 pm
@gunther: overseas commentators are raving about him… hmmmm why does that sound familiar?
20 Dec 2009, 17:39 pm
who ?
20 Dec 2009, 17:41 pm
@gunther: A certain loose forward who moved up north
20 Dec 2009, 17:43 pm
Really who has been raving about him?
20 Dec 2009, 17:47 pm
@gunther: UK commentators (in their funny accents)… watch the games
20 Dec 2009, 17:52 pm
I watched their games a mate of mine plays for them… didn’t notice them raving about him even when he was man of the match haven’t read anything in the press about him either other than an off the ball incident.. maybe we have different ideas as to what constitutes raving..
20 Dec 2009, 17:58 pm
Eish. Some heroics, but I fear this will still be a draw.
20 Dec 2009, 17:59 pm
@WP Till I Die:
fat lady warming up…
20 Dec 2009, 17:59 pm
@gunther: oh come on, I think they were playing Edinburgh… or it might have been Saints… 1 of them said
“Luke Watson is brilliant player… such an inspiration… South Africa is really stupid for letting him go”
the other 1: “well there stupidity is Bath’s gain”
20 Dec 2009, 18:02 pm
@SpringbokSarah:
ok if you say so..another wicket come on boys…
20 Dec 2009, 18:04 pm
@gunther: we winning?
20 Dec 2009, 18:05 pm
One more, one more…come on boys!
20 Dec 2009, 18:07 pm
@SpringbokSarah:
we are on the verge of winning only a couple of overs left one wicket to get…I can barely watch..
20 Dec 2009, 18:09 pm
New ball doing the trick here. Get that wicket, please!
20 Dec 2009, 18:12 pm
Victory is calling boys! Take it! It’s yours!
20 Dec 2009, 18:13 pm
@gunther: oh ok
20 Dec 2009, 18:22 pm
What a match.
20 Dec 2009, 18:23 pm
So, who said 5-day cricket is boring?
20 Dec 2009, 18:25 pm
great test match….pity but well done to poms and proteas, last 30 minutes was something else!
20 Dec 2009, 18:28 pm
Once again the poms applaud mediocrity
20 Dec 2009, 18:35 pm
Breaking news: Jean de villiers just scores for Munster 70th min
20 Dec 2009, 20:16 pm
Some tough selection decisions have to be made I reckon.
Sentiment aside….Macky is not the same bowler he was a few years back and Friedel De Wet has bowled quite well with good pace and control.
20 Dec 2009, 20:23 pm
Bouch needs to really step up with the bat in this series….he’s made a good start though. I notice that Heino Kuhn scored a big hundred this weekend.
Morne Morkel is like a toothless pit bull….looks mean and dangerous but when it really matters most he doesn’t always deliver.
Hard luck about the result…..makes the Durbs test all the more interesting.
20 Dec 2009, 20:39 pm
To give a has been Ntini the last over is just pure political.
On the rare occasions when you have 4 quicks like Parnell, Morkel, Steyn and de Wet, you have to use them to be as dominant as the West Indies and Australia have been over the last 20 years. The problem is that there are far too many Afrikaans names for the politicians to stomach. The batsmen like Pietersen and Trott (whom we desperately need) were quite right in seeking their fortunes elsewhere
20 Dec 2009, 20:43 pm
@posts: Pietersen yes.
Trott wouldn’t get near this SA team.
20 Dec 2009, 21:29 pm
Trott is doing a lot better than most of our batsmen. Smith and Prince seem to spend most of the time trying to avoid a double.
AB and Duminy are disappointing, Amla inspires sleep which just leaves Kallis and Boucher as a full stop
20 Dec 2009, 22:02 pm
Giving the last over to Ntini was dof.
You cant expect the poor oke to come bowl a good over after he been fielding getting cold for about an hour.
Stupid captaincy
20 Dec 2009, 22:40 pm
55 wp I agree. It. Was insane not to give De Wet the last over.I felt like throwing a shoe at the tv when I saw Ntini warming up!
21 Dec 2009, 00:32 am
Freidel deserved the last over. Wow, but he bowled well today.
Will be tough selecting the bowlers for the Durban Test if Steyn is fit…
21 Dec 2009, 05:45 am
@ 52 posts
If that cr@p u spewing out makes sense to u then are an idiot. If you understand the game of cricket then you would realise Ntini has not only in the past but in the present been a vital cog in that machine. I myself would like to see dean elger open the batting with smith. But that would mean mark boucher loses his spot and that should not happen.
It annoys me greatly how some here complain about players when they seem to not understand the game and team dynamics. The only player who is under pressure is morkel. Not ntini. He has 390 wickets in a ton of tests you idiot.
ps trott and kp left because they could not cut it. Nothing to do with what kp claims. He was a kak spiner who batted at 8 end of.
21 Dec 2009, 08:23 am
@skunk:
You’ve got to admit, Skunk, that giving Ntini the last over was rich in sentiment, barren in tactical nous.
De Wet was the man to bowl the final over. Any half-decent captain would have arrived at that simple conclusion.
While I agree that Ntini has been a great servant of SA cricket, we need to look at the present – and, sadly, his form is way off where it should be. His problem/challenge is that he’s getting older…and as any ageing cricketer will tell you, holding you place in the face of indifferent form becomes increasingly difficult with each passing year.
What’s tolerated as a blimp at 25 won’t enjoy the same leniency at 34. That’s life.
Boucher, despite a decent (all too infrequent, in my opinion) outing in Pretoria, needs to perform with bat and golves throughout this series to retain his spot. Nothing more, nothing less, the end of the highway of favouritism he has travelled along, in near-untouchable comfort, for the past three or so years.
Perform or piss off. Simple.
21 Dec 2009, 09:14 am
@Joe Maher: Hahahahaha….Ray Jennings is that you?
Too true…..I can’t argue with that.
21 Dec 2009, 09:20 am
i am not a real authority on he cricket….but 2 points….Boucher….to me….is a real star…a street fighter….seems to me some want him dropped??
And our attack lacks bight…..D Steyn and Parnell should play…..and sometimes 2 spinners with J Botha in the mix….perhaps when Kallis can bowl?
21 Dec 2009, 09:58 am
@grant10: He’s not a star but he is a fighter.
In the past Bouch could hide behind Polly’s contributions with the bat but now that Polly is no longer around Bouch needs to step up to the plate and contribute more consistently with the bat.
His glove work is still excellent but his batting is too incosistent.
We’ve got a youngster Heino Kuhn, who is scoring hundreds in the domestic competition and he should be groomed for the role seeing Bouch is not getting younger either.
Like you always say G10 no sentiment, it’s simply a decision in the best interests of the team.
21 Dec 2009, 10:17 am
Really daft to have given that last over to Ntini to bowl. Why?
I know this was his 100th test but we should always put sentimental stuff aside, in a time as crucial as that. Should have been De Wet to bowl that last over. We just may have got that last wicket.
Ntini was never going to take a wicket. De Wet was bowling superb at the time. So very stupid not to have given him the last over to bowl.
21 Dec 2009, 10:36 am
I am absolutely gutted with this result…it actually feels like a loss to me
for a team aiming to regain the number one spot in Test cricket to not bowl out an average England team ranked 7th in the world is ridiculous.
And this typifies the SA mentality when the SA captain comes out and says it is a positive result for them. How the hell can you not take 9 wickets (incl. a nightwatchman) on day 5 on a pitch with that much demons in it…FFS I was half expecting a Catholic priest on the pitch to do an exorcism!!!!
Some of the bowling changes and field placings were poor to say the least…Compare us to the Aussie team and see the difference in attitude. The WI were so close to winning, but the Aussies dug deep and closed out the game. What did we do? We managed to snatch a draw from the jaws of victory!!!
PATHETIC.
21 Dec 2009, 11:32 am
thwart is a funny word
21 Dec 2009, 14:17 pm
Ntini could well be in trouble for the next test. He didnt bowl badly but he was flat. Most of the time he didnt even look like taking a wicket.
Morkel also wasnt great but looked far more dangerous at times and he offers something different to Ntini – more height and bounce which is a great asset
I wouldnt like to be a selector. But I’d say it’ll be very harsh to leave out de Wet after he nearly won the game for us.
Bouch often contributes, the criticsm levelled at him is unfounded. It’s time to just accept that he’ll be in the side until the 2011 world cup at least. After which we can start looking at Kuhn and Smit and the like to take over.
Bouch, just like Kallis, will only be appreciated by some when he leaves.
He is a true legend of our cricket and he is a star. Most other international sides, except maybe India, would die to have a player like him to keep wicket.
Appreciate, and respect, the man for who he is and what he’s done for our cricket, while he’s still playing.
21 Dec 2009, 14:25 pm
@WP_: WP, Mate well said about Bouch. How some people think he is not up to it is just plain rubbish. He is and always has been a fighter in our side. Saved our butts many times too. He is there to keep first and foremost. Then to bat a bit.
Why did Ntini bowl that last over? CRAZY. Jeepers they should have had De Wet bowl that over.
Think maybe cause it was Ntini’s 100th Test. Look he as served SA very, very well for sure. He has slowed down now and not really taking the wickets.
How is D. Steyn? Hope he is ready for the test in Durban. De Wet deserves another chance. Then if Steyn is fit who plays? I would have both and sorry to say this drop Ntini.
Also Parnell would be great for Durbs. Very different pitch there to Centurion and think it would suit Parnell.
21 Dec 2009, 14:31 pm
Those claiming Boucher should go should watch that catch he took to dismiss Matt Prior.
Absolute blinder.
21 Dec 2009, 14:40 pm
Puma
Yeah mate, Steyn should be fit I gather, which is fantastic.
Cant believe Smith brought Makhaya on for the last one. Was a poor decision on all counts.
He says de Wet was tired after bowling 7 overs in a row but hell, he could have definately squeezed another out. Especially if it’s the last over of the match!
Ya, Well I’d say, with Kallis fit to bowl again, that my bowling attack would be Steyn and de Wet, Kallis, Harris and then it’s a toss up between Ntini and Morne. Like I said I thought Morne looked more likely to take wickets in Pretoria. So I’d probably go with him.
Makhaya has been a terrific asset to our bowling line up for about 10 years. But he looked a tired bowler maybe past his best at Centurion.
Hopefully he can prove wrong and get back to his best. Not that he was bad in the first test, not at all, he just was the old Makhaya. He looked like he lacked bite and consistency.
Interesting calls to be made.
Parnell would be a good option in Durban as it usually aides swing down there. But he wont play as he’s been dropped from the squad for the last two tests for some reason
21 Dec 2009, 14:46 pm
“Bouch needs to really step up with the bat in this series”
“He is a true legend of our cricket and he is a star. Most other international sides, except maybe India, would die to have a player like him to keep wicket.”
LOL..fighter, star, maggot, puffed up sh*t house!
Get in Kuhn, he’s much younger and a superior batsmen!
21 Dec 2009, 14:49 pm
@WP_: 69 – WP, Wonder why Parnell has been dropped? He was bowling superb. The Durban test would suit his bowling for sure.
Ntini has served SA very well. Just think he has slowed down now and not taking as many wickets. Test cricket is all about wickets. Have to select the players that will take wickets.
I would with out a doubt play D. Steyn if he is over that injury and De Wet. Steyn brings in some aggession which is good. Need that sometimes. Think both those will play somehow if Parnell is dropped. Pity. Then it will be a toss up between Ntini and Morne. I would go for Morne. We need to win the next test and get one up there. Should have won the test yesterday. Took forever to bowl them out. Somehow think Parnell would have done well yesterday too.
It was those damn Saffa Poms….
we took forever and ever to get them out. Just pleased KP had a brain explosion. Why he ran there I will never know. He got himself run out. Otherwise he may have been in until the end. He was well in by then. Probably lost concentration.
21 Dec 2009, 14:49 pm
horua – who says kuhn is a better batsman anyway?
21 Dec 2009, 14:51 pm
typo there. meant aggression.
21 Dec 2009, 14:56 pm
@WP: Crininfo!!
21 Dec 2009, 14:58 pm
@WP_: 72 – WP, Boucher first job is to keep and batting comes 2nd. He is the best we have.
Some will only know his worth once he is gone. That is for sure.
WP. Cheers mate have to go out. Catch up later.
21 Dec 2009, 15:05 pm
Cricinfo hey Horua?
What cricinfo will tell you mate is that Kuhn has never played a test match and that Bouch has played 125.
So you cannot really compare their first class averages mate. Doesnt work that way.
Puma
Yes KPs run out was hilarious to watch. Total brain ****. Trott just stared at him thinking what the bloody hell is this oke doing.
It was painfull watching those saffas batting out a session and a half though.
But I said it at the time, not with hindsight, that we batted for too long in the 2nd innings. I would have got to 320 or 330 and put them in. What do you reckon
21 Dec 2009, 15:05 pm
AS well as de Wet did yesterday, I would still play Parnell ahead of him for the next Test for the simple reason that Parnell has been in the SA setup far longer and IMO was very unlucky not to play in the first Test. He also has the added advantage of being a lefty, thereby offering some variation and he bowls brilliantly to left-handers and the tail.
I think now that Ntini has reached his milestone, the selectors will take a far more critical look at his performance and to be honest, most would agree that he should not play in the next Test. Dale Steyn can then come back in his place and open the bowling.
As inconsistent as Morkel is, it is clear that he has the respect of the England batsmen, therefore he has to be in the next Test.
Hopefully Kallis can get over his side strain, so he will also be able to bowl 10-15 overs in the day. And together with Harris and Duminy (who was severely under-bowled)they could seriously restrict the England batsmen and put some pressure on them throughout their innings.
If de Wet plays ahead of Parnell, I won’t have too much problems, although, as mentioned earlier, I still think Parnell offers that little bit extra.
21 Dec 2009, 15:08 pm
BTW…Boucher is a legend…What more do people expect him to do??? Jump through hoops while juggling his bat, gloves and a cricket ball?
21 Dec 2009, 15:12 pm
What it does tell is that Mark “Lets get 30 runs every 10 tests to be retained” Boucher had ample opportunity to do his thing! But failed each time (except for the FIGHTER innings)! So here we have a guy thats young and that can score hundreds against good quality provincial bowlers!
21 Dec 2009, 15:13 pm
If Boucher is a legend.. then Gilchrist is a god! People want him to retire!
21 Dec 2009, 15:20 pm
Horua
You dont really sound like you know what you’re talking about kid…
21 Dec 2009, 15:20 pm
@Mighty Horua:
Ofcourse Gilchrist is a God…the undisputed greatest keeper ever…thats a given…Kuhn will get his chance, maybe in the one day games at first. But he will be fazed in slowly, much like Boucher was when Richardson was close to retiring.
Boucher though has a place in SA cricket and after 125 Tests, he will be sorely missed. Just look at how we miss Polly. I will much rather have someone like Boucher, who still has great reflexes and fantastic hands – who also happens to read the match situation well and is a proven match-winner, over someone who has no experience and who has never been tested at this level….but his time will come.
21 Dec 2009, 15:24 pm
We had Polly for almost 20 years and could not win the Aussies! Just drop Bouch and move on!
21 Dec 2009, 15:26 pm
@Mighty Horua:
Because the Aussies had the GREATEST TEST TEAM IN THE HISTORY OF CRICKET!!!!!!!!! No one could beat them. Maybe you should just drop it and move on to another sport like jukskei or something. Maybe then you will understand that nothing beats experience. NOTHING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
21 Dec 2009, 15:30 pm
Friedel de Wets inexperience triumphed over Ntini’s. So please….its about attitude!
21 Dec 2009, 15:35 pm
@Mighty Horua:
OMG…its like talking to a rock….lets see how de Wet does over lets say 100 Tests OK buddy? Oh sorry, he won’t get anywhere near that….FFS grow up and stop acting your age. At least pretend to have an intelligent argument next time.
Now piss off.
21 Dec 2009, 15:49 pm
Settle down boys and girls.
Boucher still has a role to play but we don’t want to be caught with our pants down when he retires so Kuhn needs to be phased into the team a.s.a.p
Boucher needs to perform with the bat as much as he performs with the gloves….our tail is longer and we can certainly do with a wicket keeper who can score hundreds when it matters most.
His record over say the past 2 years with the bat has been sub standard, that’s not to say he hasn’t played some match defining innings like his innings at Headingly or was it Trent Bridge to help win the series against England.
I just think he has at times relied on his “broerskap” with Kallis and Smith to get him through instead of working hard and improving his batting.
21 Dec 2009, 16:37 pm
@WP_: 76 – WP, Mate at the time I thought that England would come out and play positive crici and would try and chase down our score. So thought maybe when we declared with 8 overs maybe we should have declared with 5 and made a few more runs. I was WRONG. We should have declared with about 15 left to give us some time to bowl at them on Saturday evening. They were really exhausted bowling the whole day in the heat. I think now we may have got another wicket on Saturday had we had a few extra overs to bowl. We could have won that test. Even giving Ntini the last over to bowl was crazy. De Wet should have got that over to bowl.
Now need to think about the next test and really hope we get the good weather they had up there. We have had so much rain here so it will be lucky if we get 5 days straight without any rain.
21 Dec 2009, 16:41 pm
@Golden Boy: Agree that Parnell would be suited to play in the Durbs test. If he does not though then De Wet should get another chance. He was superb yesterday.
Like I said above somewhere in one of my posts. Sorry to say this but Ntini has served SA well but has slowed down now. I would play Morne ahead of Ntini. If Steyn is over his injury he has to start no questions. Adds that aggression too which none of the others do.
Should be exciting let us hope for good weather.
21 Dec 2009, 17:16 pm
Agree with your sentiments there Puma. We should have declared earlier. Too late now tho. 3 important tests to go.
Just hope there’s no rain around to ruin it.
21 Dec 2009, 18:43 pm
@Puma: Looks like they want Parnell to get more first-class and domestic experince before he makes his test debut.
21 Dec 2009, 19:17 pm
@WP_: WP, Not sure but that could be. I thought he was ready. Has bowled really well.
Think he is only 20 years old now but age means nothing really.
Look at Frans Steyn in the rugby. He was 19 at the world cup.
Well then if Parnell wont get selected for the Durbs test then think De Wet must be given another chance.
Durbs pitch though would suit Parnells bowling. Pity he still has to wait to get selected.
22 Dec 2009, 09:46 am
When I played cricket it was still played like gentlemen (more or less). Tell me crickec fans, was Broad committing the untimate act of cheating when he went to the third umpire querying the decision that he was out caught? He MUST have known that he had a touch! Collingwood also disappointed me when he agreed to query the decision.
Secondly, in my humble opinion, I think that fielders and especially wickies cheat when they appeal vigorouslywhen they clearly know that the batsman is not out.
Enough negativity! I really like Friedel de Wet – he looks like a real find – time will tell. I also like the new referal system. There are no undue delays and much more accurate decisions seem to be made when dubious ump’s decisions are referred.
I don’t like cricket – I love it!
23 Dec 2009, 08:57 am
Our brothers fought the good fight and as struggle heroes we thwarted the British imperialists to defend our precious land once again. Never will they ever occupy us.
23 Dec 2009, 14:53 pm
83. WP_Reply to this comment :
December 18th, 2009 at 9:48 am
“Prince got injured and his place went to JP.
Who should really have been the one who Prince should have replaced when he came back from injury…
But JP had been playing too well to drop so they decided that Prince should wait it out.
That’s just the way things go sometimes”
In the case of Steyn the situation is not much different.
Steyn got injured and his place went to de Wet.
Who should really be the one who Steyn should replace when he comes back from injury?
23 Dec 2009, 14:57 pm
why is Parnell not in the team??
23 Dec 2009, 16:48 pm
@grant10: He was in the squad for the first test but then they withdrew him.
I think the selectors feel that he’s not ready for the longer form of the game.
If it was my decision, I would at least give him a go and judge from there.
He’s still young though, he’ll have ample time to play for the Proteas…he’s an exciting prospect.
23 Dec 2009, 17:00 pm
@Jozi: Thanks….i dont follow the cricket as intensely as the rugby, but find it strange that an exciting left arm quick who seems to pick up wickets cannot get a spot….anyway, as i said i am not an authority, but do like the look of Parnell….and the variation is always a good thing. I know Durban tends to swing too so Parnells omission seems even stranger.
23 Dec 2009, 17:31 pm
@grant10: I’m not an authority either but I do enjoy skittle sticks as skopskiet calls it.
You’re right, variation is very important and we haven’t really had too many decent left armers in the past.
If Parnell goes back to his province and takes a bag full of wickets, there’s no way they can keep him out for too long.
He’ll play for the Proteas sooner rather than later.
Other left armers who should be given a look in are Lonwabo Tsotsobe and Yussuf Abdullah.
23 Dec 2009, 20:14 pm
Abdullah?? are u joking? fark this fat guy can’t even make the Dolphins side …. Tsosobe isn’t even in the top 30 bowlers in the SS series …. do some research man …. test cricket is different to 1 day cricket ….. Parnell also has a terrible ave (bowling) in 4/5 day cricket …. Ntini is 19th & De Wet is 13th ….
24 Dec 2009, 10:22 am
Ntini needs to be dropped, the bowling line up should be De Wet, Steyn, Morkel, Harris and Kallis..
24 Dec 2009, 11:29 am
@Tbozknows: Hi Tboz, I agree with you. Ntini has served SA cricket really well but he has slowed down now. I would play the players you mentioned above too. Though I do like Parnell and would liked to have seen him start in Durban. Gets good swing and his bowling would suit the Durbs pitch.
Season greetings to you Tboz.
24 Dec 2009, 11:41 am
@wpw_: Ok Einstein….whom do you suggest then, we desparately need a leftie in the side and the guys I’ve mentioned are all young and have the potential to improve.
24 Dec 2009, 16:00 pm
Only sentiment and other extenuating factors will keep Ntini in the side. Not form.
24 Dec 2009, 17:27 pm
Jozi …what about Fourie du Preez :p
25 Dec 2009, 10:42 am
Ntini should be in the team as far as I am concerned. Nothing to do with sentiment or other factors. That was reserved for Shaun Pollock when he bowled at 120 km/h and could not buy a wicket for the last three years as an international cricket player.
Funny how you can change your tune within the space of three days, WP. One set of rules for some players and another set for others is the only conclusion I can come to.:lol:
Ntini is 11th on the all time list of wicket takers in tests. He has reached 300 test wickets in exactly the same amount of test matches as Shaun Pollock (74), quicker than somebody like Courtney Walsh who only reached that target after 80 matches. Pollock reached 400 wickets in his 103rd test. What are the odds that Ntini will reach that target by the end of the series against England which will also coincide with his 103rd test if he is selected for all the matches in the series. He is “only” 32 years old. I think he still has about 2-3 years left in the tank. He could still become only the third fast bowler after Glen Mc Grath and Courtney Walsh to take 500 wickets in his career.
AI would agree that he has not been at his best lately but I think it is largely due to the fact that his role has changed this past few years. Where in the past his primary job was to take wickets without having to care about runs scored of his bowling, he is now charged with the task to stop runs from being scored at one end. That obviously has a big influence on his wicket taking capabilities as you have to bowl in a totally different way.
Ntini is still the best bowler to left handers in the world. Strauss was identified by Greame Smith as the glue that holds the England batting line up together. With Ntini in the mix you always have the chance to get him out early with the new ball if the slip catchers can hold on to the opportunities presented to them.
BTW, I would love to see the stats of catches dropped from Ntini’s bowling throughout his career. I think it must be well over 20 or 30.
Seasons greetings to all.
I hope that you and your family have a great day. If you are on your own, just remember that you are not alone.
25 Dec 2009, 11:31 am
Arthur said there was no question of dropping Makhaya Ntini, who celebrated his 100th Test in last week’s drawn match, if Steyn returns.
“He can play an important holding role, and he comes in at a different angle to the left-handers,” he said.(news 24)
25 Dec 2009, 14:12 pm
the golden rule in cricket is … quit while you’re at the top
Players who left it too late & damaged their records are :
Shaun P
Ntini
Dave Richardson
Andrew Hudson
Cullinun
Players who quit at the right time :
Gary Kirsten
Kepler Wessels
Fanie
Donald
McMillan
Jonty
25 Dec 2009, 14:14 pm
Ntini just hasn’t got the pace or variation to trouble batsmen anymore, his fist class & test record in the last 2 years says it all. Last 3 – 5 years he was SA’s best at the time …. but now he must make way
25 Dec 2009, 17:51 pm
nama
That is pathetic.
Polly bowled at 120 kph and didnt get any wickets during the last 3 years of his career?
That is kak and you know it! Or you should. Polly was always more than a contributor with the ball. Plus you are forgetting quite a large thing: he was a great batsman. You might have forgotten that he averaged 30 with bat during his test career.
Ntini to do a holding role? That’s bullshit from Arthur as usual! Since when does a opening bowler do that? Even polly didnt do that.
If you hadnt noticed, Harris does that role in the side.
Sure, I’m happy for Makhaya to get another chance but I reckon if he doesnt perform it could be his last test.
25 Dec 2009, 21:14 pm
Maybe Parnell can get a chance when he gets his FC bowling average under 40 eh? I’d rather have Quinton Friend as backup – the guy’s on fire! Even Rusty Theron.
25 Dec 2009, 21:53 pm
lets be honest….. Ntini is a icon for black SA kids …. if he doesn’t play we go 500 steps back in the transformation etc process …. only a zulu/xhosa player will replace Ntini
25 Dec 2009, 22:10 pm
Ntini’s test stats over the last 2 years (his so called bad years) is still better than those of Morkel. He took more wickets, has a better bowling average average and a better economy rate.
Therefore, if we judge the players only on bowling performance over that period, Ntini deserves his place in the team ahead of Morkel.
25 Dec 2009, 22:38 pm
Good point rob, but Morkel is the future. And Ntini is in the twilight of his career. So it’s fair enough to look the future
26 Dec 2009, 11:42 am
@WP_: #110
Do me a favour and dig up Polly’s stats for the last three years of his career before you say I talk kak.
Fortunately or unfortunately cricket is one of those games where the stats can back you up (or not).
The way I see it, Harris is used as an ATTACKING spin bowler and he is not in the team to do a holding job. Watch the test that starts today and you will see that. You are still stuck in the time where spinners in SA were used to do a holding job like in the days of Pat Symcox.
If you hadn’t noticed, Polly was used to do a holding job in the latter part of his career. He was an opening bowler also.
Make sure of your facts before posting. People will start to doubt your credibility.
26 Dec 2009, 12:18 pm
#115
If you think that Harris is an attacking bowler. Then I doubt you’re credibility and intelligence, quite frankly.
For the vast majority of Pollock’s career, he played without a spinner in the side. He he had to do a holding role at times. But you cannot just say blindly that he did it for the last 3 years of his test career. That is just plain stupidity.
Plus you cant choose to ignore Polly’s batting. Another reason he was kept in the side.
Ntini will not last as a “holding bowler” as he has always been a wicket taker throughout his career.
27 Dec 2009, 03:56 am
@WP_: WP
All you need to do is to have a look at the field placings set for Harris and compare it to those set for someone like Symcox to see that Harro is more of an attacking spinner than anyone else before him.
I really don’t know what my intelligence has got to do with my observations of what’s going on on the cricket field. You don’t know me and you don’t know what my academic qualifications are. But if it gives you an erection, you can go ahead and question it. I just hope that you are able to use it while you have it. I suppose that somebody at your advance age don’t get it too often.
Polly was always selected for his BOWLING first. His ability to bat was always regarded as a bonus.
If/when Duminy is dropped because he does not make runs, I hope that you will defend him because he can bowl some off-spin.
I doubt it however.
PS: Polly was one of my favourite players and what I am saying is in no way meant as an attack on him.
27 Dec 2009, 04:49 am
@WP_: #110
“Ntini to do a holding role? That’s bullshit from Arthur as usual! Since when does a opening bowler do that? Even polly didnt do that.”
@WP_: #116
“For the vast majority of Pollock’s career, he played without a spinner in the side. He he had to do a holding role at times.”
I don’t know about you, but I’m totally confused.
@WP_: #115
“For the vast majority of Pollock’s career, he played without a spinner in the side.”
Polly played in 108 test between 1995-2008. Can you PLEASE tell me in how many of those tests there was no spinner in the team?
“He he had to do a holding role at times. But you cannot just say blindly that he did it for the last 3 years of his test career. That is just plain stupidity.”
I never said that he had to do a holding job for the last three years of his career, STUPID. I said that he did not TAKE WICKETS for the last three years of his career. Yes, his job throughout his career was to dry up runs at one end. His stats will confirm it. Look it up, as I suggested to you.
As a cricket follower you will remember that Polly had for the most part of his career the best average of any bowler in the history of test cricket in SA. There even was a time where he was one of only four bowlers in the world who had an average of less than 21 runs per wicket. He was in the company of people like his hero, Malcolm Marshall(20.94), Joel Garner(20.97) and Curtley Ambrose(20.99). However, he ended his career with an average of 23.11.
An indication that he did not take wickets in the last few years of his test career.
As I previously said: “Fortunately or unfortunately cricket is one of those games where the stats can back you up (or not).”
I did not see you providing any stats to back up anything you claim.
Yet.
27 Dec 2009, 08:56 am
nama
The fact that you think that Harry is an attacking spinner, tells me all I need to know about your cricket knowledge. LIMITED.
Is copying and pasting what I have said you can do? It’s very boring.
27 Dec 2009, 10:47 am
Ok mate.
This is what you said:
“An indication that he did not take wickets in the last few years of his test career.” (See I can do it too)
Ok, lets look at Polly last year. Because that was when he was at his worst, right? Of course, according to this wally.
His last 6 tests from 15 Dec ’06 to 10 Jan ’08:
Analysis:
4/39 (17.5) , 3/33 (16) , 1/17 (14.5)! , 0/20 (9) , 4/75 (29.1) , 1/24 (15), 1/38 (18) , 3/60 (22) , 2/42 (14) , 2/47 (13), 4/35 (11), 1/50 (17)
That is:
Wickets: 26
Runs: 400
Overs: 196.5
Average: 15.38
SR: 45.42
ANd you said this:
“An indication that he did not take wickets in the last few years of his test career.”
What complete an utter BullSh1t mate!!!
Lets’s compare that to Polly’s career average of 23.11 and career SR of 57.8
Hmmm?
To put it into perpective Makkaya has got 16 wickets in his last 6 tests.
27 Dec 2009, 10:50 am
@WP_: That is Makhaya, my apologies.
27 Dec 2009, 10:55 am
Nama:
“Ntini should be in the team as far as I am concerned. Nothing to do with sentiment or other factors. That was reserved for Shaun Pollock when he bowled at 120 km/h and could not buy a wicket for the last three years as an international cricket player.”
Wow, you look like a real idoit now.
27 Dec 2009, 11:08 am
@nama1: Harris an attacking spinner:
hahaha
His career SR: 69.9
Compared to a real attacking spinners:
Ajantha Mendis : SR: 58.7
SK Warne: SR: 57.4
Murali: SR: 55.1
Harry is a tidy spinner and he does a great job for us. However, he does more of a holding role than an attacking one.
28 Dec 2009, 01:15 am
@WP_: #123
In a SA context, Boetie.
If you look at how Harris is used in comparison to the spinners in the past, it is obvious that Smith believe that he is a wicket taker and not just in the team to do a holding job while the quickies have a rest.
I can still remember Hansie declining Pat Symcox a fielder close to the wicket because his role was to contain the batsman. The Aussie commentators were absolutely dumbstruck by Hansie’s reaction when Symcox asked him for a fielder near the bat.
The three spinners you mention are cricketing freaks that will only appear on the scene once in a generation. I’m not too sure that SA will ever produce a spinner like that given our pitches and our preference for fast bowlers.
But hey, what the hell do I know. You are the expert on this site as far as cricket is concerned.
28 Dec 2009, 01:25 am
nama
And what about Pollock? Wont admit you’re wrong hey? I suspected that.
28 Dec 2009, 02:21 am
@WP_:
year 2004
Matches 11
Wickets 43
Average 29.62
Economy rate 2.71
Strike rate 65.5
year 2005
Matches 7
Wickets 13
Average 30.43
ER 2.50
SR 72.7
year 2006
Matches 8
Wickets 16
Ave 40.10
ER 2.89
SR 83.1
year 2007
Matches 3
Wickets 6
Ave 22.00
ER 2.57
SR 51.3
year 2008
Matches 1
Wickets 2
Ave 17.00
ER 3.03
SR 33.6
So, for the last FIVE years of his career Polly’s stats read:
Matches: 30
Wickets: 80
Ave: 27.83
For a person who averaged less than 21 runs per wicket and also averaged more than 4 wickets per test for the most part of his career, that is a huge drop. Agree?
PS: I count from 2005 because he played his last full season of test matches in 2007.
28 Dec 2009, 02:24 am
Sorry, count from 2004.
28 Dec 2009, 06:15 am
2008
1 MATCH, 2 wickets?
That’s blatantly wrong! He got 5 wickets in his last game, idiot. Which was in 2008!
Get your facts CORRECT at least!
28 Dec 2009, 09:31 am
124 nama
Kepler Wessels has JUST said : ” Smith can rotate his three quicks from one end, while Harris does a holding job at the other”
Has it sunk in yet idiot?
28 Dec 2009, 12:36 pm
We’re into name calling now?
You’re right. I got his wicket stats mixed up with the innigs’ in which he bowled. An honest mistake. Sorry.
@WP_:
year 2004
Matches 11
Wickets 43
Average 29.62
Economy rate 2.71
Strike rate 65.5
year 2005
Matches 7
Wickets 23
Average 30.43
ER 2.50
SR 72.7
year 2006
Matches 8
Wickets 19
Ave 40.10
ER 2.89
SR 83.1
year 2007
Matches 3
Wickets 13
Ave 22.00
ER 2.57
SR 51.3
year 2008
Matches 1
Wickets 5
Ave 17.00
ER 3.03
SR 33.6
So, for the last FIVE years of his career Polly’s stats read:
Matches: 30
Wickets: 103
Ave: 27.83
His averages regarding wickets per match and runs per wicket still took a huge dip. I see that you have conveniently chose to ignore that part. I did not expect anything else.
28 Dec 2009, 12:49 pm
wp is a dooos and should not be taken seriously!he and his mate hondo only brings up statistics when it suits their racist agendas.
28 Dec 2009, 12:59 pm
So it was 103 wickets in the last 30 games? Not 80 like you said earlier! How can I take you seriously if you cant even get you facts right?
So polly’s bowling dropped off slightly towards the end of his career? So what? If you look at YOUR own stats above you will see that this only happened in 2006… The rest of the years mentioned were great.
If you trying to stick up for an out of form Makhaya by dragging out old Polly stats, who was an all rounder anyway. That’s quite sad and pathetic, mate.
Poor memory too I see. You started the name calling…
I fail to see how you can compare an out an out opening bowler (Makkie) and an all rounder (Polly) ?
You cant really, and as I pointed out, he got 26 wickets in his last 6 matches so he DID NOT, as you wrongly say, “could not buy a wicket in his last three years”
You really are full of drivel sometimes. Anyway i’m tired of this discussion. It’s boring…
Lets hope Makhaya gets some wickets in this test cos he hasnt looked like it yet…
And i’m sure Arthur wont be as patient as you mate…
PS : what about post 129? Chose to ignore that did we
28 Dec 2009, 13:03 pm
131
Save your breath you racist bigot. No one cares what your small underdeveloped brain has to offer.
28 Dec 2009, 13:45 pm
@WP_: #132
So you never make mistakes. Good for you. I do sometimes and if I do, I don’t mind apologising for it.
RE #129: That may be what is needed according to the captain at the moment.
There were a few questions I asked of you that you chose to ignore. I’m still waiting on your stats regarding Pollock playing without a spinner in the side for the vast majority of his career. Plus you still cannot explain how you can move from categorically stating that Pollock never did a holding job to Pollock doing a holding job at times within the space of a few posts (110 & 116)
You’re right, I’m tired of this discussion. This is my last contribution re this matter.
28 Dec 2009, 14:05 pm
Good. We’re bigger than childish name calling. Lets move past it.
I could look up those particular stats but as I said i’m tired on this so I wont. Maybe I will at some stage.
One thing I’ll admit, fine, Polly might have done a holding role at some stage. But only when the situation demanding it. And I still believe he always looked for wickets (i.e not just bowling outside off)
But enough of this.
28 Dec 2009, 14:17 pm
Good.
28 Dec 2009, 14:23 pm
Good.
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