Still no clarity for Kings
3 Feb 2010
While Regan Hoskins and Cheeky Watson have met there’s still a question mark on the future of the Southern Kings.
The Melbourne Rebels were awarded the 15th Super Rugby franchise on 11 November. Nearly three months later, the Kings still haven’t been approved by Saru’s board to officially create the franchise in order to gain entry into Super Rugby.
With the Saru presidential elections set for 26 March, the Kings matter is likely to drag on as the presidential candidates are uncertain of their future.
Last month Watson called for all of Saru’s promises to be put in writing to ensure they aren’t duped like the Spears before them, but he hasn’t gained his wish.
‘I’ve personally had talks with Cheeky on the issue,’ Hoskins told keo.co.za, ‘and it’s still a work in progress. They’ve been fruitful talks and we’ve discussed as many options as possible. I don’t want to disclose the details as that might cause dissension.
‘I haven’t put any of our promises in writing. I met with Cheeky after he asked for that and I confirmed all our discussions are bona fide.
‘When we have reached finality on the decisions then we’ll put it in writing.’
Watson was unavailable for comment as he is out of the country for two days.
Meanwhile, Sanzar are mere weeks away from confirming that Argentina will be added to the Tri-Nations to make a four-country competition in 2012. Sanzar’s new broadcasting deal is also set to be finalised.
The major stumbling block to Argentina entering the competition was the availability of their leading players, the majority of who play in France’s Top 14. Last year the French clubs agreed to their release and the only other concern is Argentina’s commercial viability and sustainability.
‘The Argentina matter has been decided on a long time ago,’ said Hoskins, ‘but Sanzar officials just had to meet with the IRB. The IRB said they’ll fund the deficit of Sanzar’s costs for allowing Argentina in, so it’s a case of finalising those costs and scientifically working them out so it’s not a thumb-suck.
‘New Zealand and Australia believed they would incur serious losses for their home matches against Argentina as they wouldn’t get too many full houses. We don’t believe we’ll be as badly affected as them.’
Hoskins also confirmed that Sanzar’s five-year broadcasting deal with News Limited from 2011 is in the final stages of the negotiation process. Reports have suggested the new deal could be worth as much as US$400 million, which would be US$77 million more than the previous deal.
‘[Saru acting MD] Andy Marinos is representing us on that issue and he confirmed to me that putting pen to paper will happen soon.’
By Grant Ball
155 Comments
3 Feb 2010, 13:09 pm
Kings’ future still uncertain
Well now there is a f#%*&@ surprise…
3 Feb 2010, 13:10 pm
I almost felt like comenting here, but then realised what a waste of energy it would be
3 Feb 2010, 13:11 pm
Honestly Hoskins is nothing more than a politician.
Does he honestly expect any half educated person to believe that nothing has been finalised other than the fact that he, or any other tool in charge of SA Rugby will use the Kings as a tool to promote his or her own reputation in the run up to the elections?
How different is this from the **** spewed by politicians in the run up to normal government or provincial elections?
3 Feb 2010, 13:13 pm
Interestingly, I heard the other day that unlike the Spears, the Kings has no formal (signed) resolution from the President’s Council.
Which means in essence, other than name, they do not even exist. They have no foot to stand on and no legal course to take from exclusion.
Also, do not be surprised to see court cases from the Spears again.
3 Feb 2010, 13:40 pm
What Kings???
There is no rugby team called the Southern Kings…
What’s these guys smoking???
3 Feb 2010, 13:54 pm
Pissant you are 100% right.
The Kings have diddly squat. There is no Presidents Council resolution regarding their formation and participation in any Super 14 or Super 15 competition, NONE, NADA, ZIP, FOKOL, let alone any local tournament.
There is no mandate, no constitution, no shareholders agreement just a pretty logo and a ton of cash that has gone towards what?
They are merely a pick up exhibition side rolled out by Hoskins and Co as a decoy, to silence Weeky Chatson, Butana Komphela and the other politicos.
SA Rugby’s Deputy President Mark Alexander and Andy Marinos supposedly led the campaign to get the Kings admission to the Super 15 and in spite of all the hoo ha, the Kings do not even have a shareholders agreement.
The Kings campaign bombed and now the clowns Hoskins Alexander and Marinos (HAM) want to run SA Rugby for the next 4 years.
3 Feb 2010, 13:56 pm
@Rum And Maple:
sheesh…
WTF is wrong with SARU and Hoskins… Sort this out already… it WILL be good for SA Rugby…
Grow some balls and DO something…
on another tack…
“New Zealand and Australia believed they would incur serious losses for their home matches against Argentina as they wouldn’t get too many full houses.”
What is wrong with the Kiwi and Aussie admin people that they believe their supporters wouldn’t watch a rugby side that finished higher than them in the World Cup…????
It is because they don’t wanna see the Argies tank them…?
3 Feb 2010, 13:59 pm
@ufo:
sorry rum and maple… that was just a general comment not aimed at you… slip of the brain when I clicked on your comment…
3 Feb 2010, 14:03 pm
@ufo: No problem, I also feel SARU is ******** around with this issue…again…
The fact that there is nothing on paper yet does not bode well for the Kings… hence my comment.
3 Feb 2010, 14:06 pm
Pissant/Umlungu
The Spears played more games than the Kings and are the rights holders, from SA Rugby nogal, to play Super 14 rugby.
Hoskins (President) Alexander (Deputy President) and Rautenbach (Vice President) have all said they want to run for President of SA Rugby for the next 4 years.
These okes can’t even run a bath, let alone SA Rugby.
Grant & Keo we are 8 weeks away from an election that will destroy SA Rugby or build it up.
Contracts and agreements are being shredded and torn up at SA Rugby or terminated like the boys did at ENRON.
Shine a light on the contenders or non contenders we have a duty here to see that the best person for rugby comes in.
3 Feb 2010, 14:11 pm
@Rum And Maple:
yeah… didn’t know that until PA posted his comment… doesn’t look good and makes my blood boil…
3 Feb 2010, 14:15 pm
@ufo: Deja Vu!!!
3 Feb 2010, 14:16 pm
How many times must I say it?
There’s no reason EP shouldn’t at least beat Griquas. And in fact, they should give the Cheetahs and Lions a good go as well.
Once they get their structures in place, and build a strong PROVINCIAL union, then no one can possibly deny them a spot in Super rugby.
But let’s be brutally honest now… Ag no, of course I cannot.
OK, let’s be ambiguous then: The guys in charge down there are incapable of building a professional union based on sound business principles.
3 Feb 2010, 14:16 pm
I know nobody wants to hear this but the Kings/Spears future is with the “Mighty” Elephants. Instead of playing politics get the EP based team to at least the top of the first division. Next, try to unseat Griekwas as the sixth team and clear of the relegation zone – Then you can make a claim for a franchise. If people in WITBANK can do it, surely PE can do it?
3 Feb 2010, 14:17 pm
@Tacitus: SNAP
3 Feb 2010, 14:22 pm
@Tacitus: @Beertjie: Valid point, and I do agree.
But what is the chances of this happening? Probably as much as the Kings getting a franchise…
The EC Rugby community have been littered with corruption for the whole of the professional era and it’s not going to change soon it seems.
3 Feb 2010, 14:25 pm
@Rum And Maple:
…all over again…!! (as sung by John Fogerty…)
3 Feb 2010, 14:25 pm
@Rum And Maple:
Yeah. How come 50 miners in Welkom can get together and produce a rugby team that outperforms the province with “the largest number of rugby clubs in South Africa?”
3 Feb 2010, 14:27 pm
@Tacitus: Because the miners in Welkom actually care about the game of rugby and the gravy train does not pass through Welkom…
3 Feb 2010, 14:56 pm
oh ffs, here we go with the verkrapte pessimists that supposedly know-it-all. The lions have been k@k for a decade and they contract springbok players with janitor contracts and EP is incompetent?
some unions protect drug sniffers and handle it internally and this is supposed to be professional?
The progress that has been made by the current EP administration is there for all to who have eyes to see. If u’re blinded by prejudice that your own indaba.
3 Feb 2010, 14:59 pm
@Transformation: Progress does not constitude a S14 franchise… the Griquas have made far more progress in the last couple of seasons than the mob in the EC…
3 Feb 2010, 15:07 pm
@Transformation: I’ll be more than happy for the EC to get a franchise. However, over the last couple of years the EP consistantly could not make the top four out of a second division six teams. All i’m saying is, they do not have to win the currie cup to be promoted, they should at least put the structures in place to show they will be competative.
If SARU must drop the Lions because they are useless then fine but to my mind the next area in line is Kimberley.
3 Feb 2010, 15:11 pm
“Honestly Hoskins is nothing more than a politician.”
Well now there is a f#%*&@ surprise…
The same with all RSA sport…
3 Feb 2010, 15:22 pm
So my Kings season ticket is a fake then?
3 Feb 2010, 15:26 pm
Politics is sports and sports is politics or, if you will, sports is politics and politics is sport and there will be no clearer demonstration of this than in this RUGBY matter. Don’t ever, ever again talk to us about this is a rugby site and not a politics site because here lies the big LIE.
In NO other country in the rugby world,let alone the World, will you find this classical example of abnormal sport existing, but in still verkrampte S.A. and you should know what we, the real non-racialists, say about that; NO NORMAL SPORT in an ABNORMAL SOCIETY, even if it means banning rugby, again, and that should be an option on the table here.
Instead of making weak-kneed excuses, as you mostly have done above, for this recalcitrant behaviour let us try to understand this and thus explain this existing attitude.
Why is the present SARU(a really bad name)fearing to grow their code of sport in an area that can really grow the sport? Surely there should be a number of rough diamonds, but diamonds nonetheless, in that supposedly economically? desert region An honest answer to this question will expose them for what they all really are.
Clearly this area, historically known as the Eastern Cape, is numerically dominated by BLACK PEOPLE. Not only are they Black but they mostly all are ANC adherents and supporters and that, more than anything else, is what scares the hell out of the members of the President’s Council who mostly come from the verkrampte unions that dominate this most politically backward of all sport,rugby in South Africa and threatens it present existence again in its present form.
They can run and dodge as much as they want but it is clear with the WC coming up soon, the ANC is going to increasingly make this a big issue and hopefully gain back much lost ground amongst Black people.
3 Feb 2010, 15:31 pm
@elliott2: Nice speech, you Malema???
3 Feb 2010, 15:35 pm
@Rum And Maple:
Must be, he doesn’t use paragraphs, I stopped reading after the first line.
3 Feb 2010, 15:36 pm
Here we are 5 years on and over R100m spent, not on the Eastern Cape, but to expressly exclude them from Super Rugby and to keep them out and still there is no resolution.
There is no resolution as Hoskins was voted in in February 2006 to keep them out and that he has done and put the Eastern Cape region into a comatose state, by deliberatley excluding them from Super Rugby but at what cost to SA Rugby?
One reads above the denigrating comments that the Eastern Cape rugby structures are shot and it is shocking to say the least that this forum is about a sport, our sport of rugby and fair play, yet there is a vocal group that would deliberately want to see the Eastern Cape denied a franchise in Super Rugby.
This matter could be solved inside one week, and could have been solved by Hoskins and Alexander, now we have to wait till post 26th March, after the SA Rugby elections…………any discussion here on this is just chatter, but this saga will bury those who led SA Rugby’s administration over the past 4 years.
NOW.
Here is a story for KEO to focus on rather, that impacts all 450 elite South African rugby players, Springboks included, and that is the shocking disarray that SARPA – the South African Rugby Players Association – finds itself in.
SARPA is required to have an AGM by the end of November each year – NONE has been held for 2009
SARPA’s CEO Piet Heymans is supposed to keep good records of accounting and minutes of ALL meetings in 2009 – NONE has been held.
At the SARPA AGM an election is supposed to be held of the EXCO – None has been held and the CEO has peppered the EXCO with his own appointed ja-broers and this is why:
Some expenditures of SARPA for 2008, as no financial records or minutes exist for 2009.
Office renovation R345,000
New computers R45,000
SA Rugby paid R1.2m for the CEO & his secretary
Travel for the CEO – R567,000
Donation to Eddie Andrews “church” – R50,000
Dis lekker by die see………….
3 Feb 2010, 15:38 pm
@Rebels_Shark: Shoul’d have done the same… he seems to blame the white people for the fact that the black rugby administrators in the EC are corrupt… or something like that.
3 Feb 2010, 15:44 pm
@Rebels_Shark
Simple, but stunningly true especially the ” RSA sport” bit.
It is not an accident that people like Hoskins, PDV, Titus and, such like, others have been advanced by the verkramptes of rugby(and most of them are still os(arse)striches). It is clearly a calculated move by SARU and it is because the names mentioned are not ever THINKERS of whatever they have been involved in. They have all, to a man, been on the distant periphery of the strife for real non-racialism in sport. They have always in their days, prior to 1994, been told what to do and never were in the leader grouping. In short, they are merely plasticine, clay, putty(thus WEAK) in the hands of the controlling verkramptes of present SARU, to be easily moulded into whatever shape the verkramptes want them to be, thus all the clown-like behaviour. There cognitive contributions in this matter will be non-existent, they are rubbish and S.A. can do without them.
3 Feb 2010, 15:58 pm
@Tacitus: Aren’t these guys your real (geographical) team? If they make it into Super Rugby, will you dump your adopted Bulls for them? Shouldn’t be too hard. I mean, you just hopped on board a winning horse. So not too much emotional investment there, hey.
3 Feb 2010, 16:01 pm
Back in the old days EP was amongst the top six teams in SA. After transformation they are consistently amongst the bottom four teams in SA.
The measure of progress will be what happens on the playing field, not in the board rooms. On the rugby field they will be measured if they can contest for a semi-final berth of the Curry Cup.
3 Feb 2010, 16:18 pm
@Rum And Maple: #21 i’m not even demanding a franchise, it’s just that some peophol (i’m not sure which one) posted earlier that the current leadership elected in November 2008 “are incapable of buidling a union based on sound business principles”. That is the biggest load of boll*cks.
Does he have proof?
Those guys have called in the anti-graft & corruption agency to probe disappearance of funds meant for development siphoned by the previous admin.
They have installed trackers on all EP development vehicles to curb misuse.
They have contracted de wet barry and other players from the sharks reserves to bolster the team.
Secured a kit & equipment sponsorship with Puma for the next 2 years.
And there’s more that they have done, for a poeph*l on this blog to talk unsubstantiated gibberish. What succesful union was ever ressurected in one year? The blue bulls were k@k in 2000 not winning even one game and it took them 7 years to get it right…
When did ludeke start @ the lions & after his depature how much progress has happened at that union? Is the GLRU the model of sound business practise?
3 Feb 2010, 16:34 pm
@28 TonyM
Two good, separate and different stories but, note, the same sad result is elicited. Fear and gross corruption come what may but no advancing their code of sport.
Sport such as rugby, and others, is a big business and certain controlling groups will try their damnest to maintain most of those jobs for boeties and broertjies but by law they have to pepper it with black pepper. Thus Sarpa is merely a prop-up body to boost the divisive, corrupt SARU hence SARU rewards them handsomely and no decent books and other legal procedures are honoured as you pointed out and the broad media is no-where to be found. But they dig their own graves with all the facts they leave behind. The gov. will be targetting them for it is all to blatantly revealing.
3 Feb 2010, 16:58 pm
@elliott2:
how does the players association “prop” up and boost saru?
if rugby where corrupt would that make it unusual in south africa or south african sport…
what is your view of the the frequent assertion that there are “too many indians” at sascoc…
3 Feb 2010, 17:29 pm
This is confuseing. If they dont exist on paper and have no structures in place, how can they have contracted players. Surely they should have a team and play some rugby before wanting to join Super 14 or Curry Cup.
If i have this totally wrong, some one explain.
3 Feb 2010, 17:33 pm
@Transformation: Transie you are right to get angry about unsubstantiated opinions which is exactly why the whole argument about how the Sharks front row IS LIKELY TO PERFORM peeves a lot of people off. Its one thing to have an opinion but to try and sprout it off as fact when their is not enough evidence yet is b…s..t . I say give them a chance ie. both the Sharks and the Kings and lets see what develops.
3 Feb 2010, 17:34 pm
This is ridiculous, they complain we are not picking enough players of colour, however when a union, where the majority of them are they don’t wanna help out. The people in rugby are whack.
3 Feb 2010, 17:41 pm
@bananaboy: how much more chances must that turbo reverse front row have?
3 Feb 2010, 17:41 pm
@SpringbokSarah: ah….a voice of reason.
3 Feb 2010, 17:48 pm
@35 gunther
It seems pretty clearly to me that the facts make you uncomfortable, unsettle you, disturb you no end because of how you have benefitted, as a group, from centuries of a culture of corruption which is historically well documented.
Hence your obstructive, as opposed to constructive, line of really silly questions that truly are scraping from the bottom of the barrel or clutching at straws.
Sarpa clearly galvanises the one large grouping within its ranks(you know who they are) to think and act as a pressure and dominating group. For example, at the time of selection of PDV vs. Meyer, Sarpa carried out a secretive player survey to drum up support for the selection of Meyer(there was a large group in SARU that wanted this too) which when the results were known to them, they rushed to the media to say that 76% of the surveyed players wanted Meyer. How do you further think that the 2007 senior players can virtually hold PDV to ransome and dictate who to include and who to banish from the squad, throwing form or merit out of the window.There are other examples despite their secretive modus opperandi. Why do you think SARU gives them a large,yearly stipend(millions) to run their affairs and not legally account for that as they have in 2009? Or are you not believing that he who pays the piper calls the tune? You have your head deeply buried in the sand if you do not believe that verkrampte Afrikaners control and dictate in the corridors of rugby.
As to your 2nd silly question, no it will not be unusual because rugby since time immemorial has been run corruptly in S.A., just think Jannie Le Roux, Louis Luyt and many more of the same mould.
The last question again is racistly obstructive. I do not much pay attention to that body but I will say where their is large money and status you will always find delinquents from any grouping who will react in a corrupt manner, notwithstanding, in the case you destructively quote, their lack of numbers in the sport code or bodies you refer to.
It is fine, you can continue to be apologetic but your time is running out and see what happens to rugby if it does not co-operate to normalise the situation in the code soon.
3 Feb 2010, 18:02 pm
@elliott2: Oh boy! Another granite boulder!!
We are so tired of bloody political diatribes!!
If only half the pea brains that clamour about rugby, actually cared about rugby, then we might take them seriously…
The only reason the clowns like Khombela rant and rave, apart from loving the sound of his own voice is to get control of the golden goose..
Rugby is one of the few sports in SA that are still sucessful, despite the Governments best efforts… Soccer is never tainted with quota requirements. Why because they have fokkol money to interest the money hungry comrades!
Why are their never any cries of the “too little” white soccer players???
3 Feb 2010, 18:05 pm
Um you have answered my three questions without answering them at all .. I predict a bright future for you in politics .. By the way I am all for the eastern cape having a team in the super 14 but they are being denied by self interest rather than race…
3 Feb 2010, 18:13 pm
@bananaboy: since it seems you are wont to mix your fruit with your veggies, i will indulge you a little.
the sharks front row competed in the currie cup with john smit playing at tighthead. a lot has been said about the success/failure of this experiment, grant10, Os durant, Jake White all believe it should not be tried again.
Rangerman, PDV, Ratel, Plumtree are not bothered by the mounting evidence the aussies, french & in the 58th minute the Irish provided that smit is weak at tighthead…
Os Durant can speak with authority on this subject because in the currie cup semi-final he planned the demise of the Springbok laden Sharks frontrow, now if you and every other Sharks fan feel
that front row did not turbo reverse (to use a recently cliched term) then by all means please ignore the doomsayers.
now, can anybody get proof or even a shred of evidence that the current administration of EP rugby have not use “sound business principles” in the year and 2 months they have been in charge?
3 Feb 2010, 18:27 pm
@43 gunther
Cheap, limp easy cop out and a lame backtrack to add, simply to save some face. Your last sentence is without a semblence of any foundation. Thousands more rugby players will be given more and, hopefully fairer, oppotunities to advance their interests in the game. Why do you not try to substantiate your claim of self-interest? You CANNOT. You typically will refuse to see the trees for the woods. Your ability to rationalise is non-existent.
You definitely do not want answers for your questions as they are too shameful,for the likes of you, to even contemplate. Note you do not even attempt to refute any idea, let alone fact because that is not in your interest. Nothing about what you write is constructive. It is just emotional and apologetic. The writing on the wall is getting clearer.
Not interested in politics tho’ will clearly do a better job than most. Am happily involved in science research where shockingly, to you, I am so advanced that I have articles in journals of repute.
3 Feb 2010, 18:29 pm
@43 gunther
Thus your attempts at denigrations are like water on a duck’s back. Or are you now going to blame the editorial boards of those journals?
3 Feb 2010, 18:35 pm
@Cheetah 4 Eva
Sport is politics and politics is sport thanks to your forebears. And now you can,t live with it or take the heat that it has created.
There are so many threads you could comment on but you choose this one and my posts and then lament politics, how desperately ingenious of you, you hypocrite.
Stick to your team and the technicalities of your game as that is the limit of what you can do other than possibly making money.
3 Feb 2010, 19:02 pm
@ Rebels_Shark
You and the buddy you smoke are not only and plainly dumb you f..king blind as well. But that is to be expected from you of in-breeding origins and stock.
You would not recognise a paragraph(so many of them there) from a sentence or a full page of just words. Your language skills are non-existent.
3 Feb 2010, 20:43 pm
@TonyM:
Here is a story for KEO to focus on rather, that impacts all 450 elite South African rugby players, Springboks included, and that is the shocking disarray that SARPA – the South African Rugby Players Association – finds itself in.
lol, do you really expect copy and paste artist like Ryan and JC to actually use their brains and work on a scoop. I bet you 500.00 Keo dollars that will never happen … ever!
3 Feb 2010, 20:49 pm
Reports have suggested the new deal could be worth as much as US$400 million, which would be US$77 million more than the previous deal.
Hmmm, so for something like 40% more rugby they get a puny US$77mil.
3 Feb 2010, 20:59 pm
Man, I would love to buy the Mighty Elephants franchise. Build up a superb Currie Cup base, and strong grass roots support and then enter S15 or whatever it is in +/-5 years.
The s15 ambition is emotional not commercial.
Bordda/EP have enough support to really build a unique culture of rugby support, not another me-too Stormers/Sharks/Bulls type of environment, but something where the community have full emotional and commercial ownership. And where the business of building a rugby franchise is managed realistically rather than over-extended.
The franchise can with work carve out it’s OWN space. Where people love and enjoy the game.
3 Feb 2010, 21:03 pm
@elliott2: haven’t even read what you posted earlier, but based on that last post, you have a serious chip on your shoulder that you obviously can’t convince your peers to appreciate, so you come onto a blog where you can hide behind your insecurities and vent for a day, must be necessary therapy, but do we have to endure it…?
3 Feb 2010, 21:09 pm
on the other side of the coin though, it would be great to see eastern province rugby back in the mix….
3 Feb 2010, 21:14 pm
@SodaJoe: 51 – Howzit Joe, Have not seen you about here for awhile.
You looking forward to the S14 next week?
3 Feb 2010, 21:20 pm
Puma. On a plane in Phienix so have to go. Business is going very fast so having to work pretty ard. Flok.
I am looking forward to the rugby. In truth I don’t have too much confidence in my Lions.
3 Feb 2010, 21:21 pm
Hate typing on bleddy iPhone. I am kak enough on a nomal keyboard.
3 Feb 2010, 21:22 pm
Bye everyone. Before they think I am Al Qaeda.
See you through the window.
3 Feb 2010, 21:23 pm
@SodaJoe: cheers soda….missing you here my man!
3 Feb 2010, 21:24 pm
@SodaJoe: Are you flying back from the UK?
Been to Phoenix once. Stayed there over night waiting for my flight to Denver.
Never mind Joe, This is a new start for your Lions. I feel they will do far better this year than last. My 2nd team the Lions so hoping they do.
3 Feb 2010, 21:25 pm
@SodaJoe: 57 – Cheers Joe, Good to catch up again.
3 Feb 2010, 21:30 pm
@SodaJoe: @SodaJoe: a dream deferred!
That is definitely what i thought i was witnessing the day i bought two tickets for myself & rossoneri for the 14 january 2006 game between the Cheetahs and the Southern Spears. With pdv as the coach, ashley johnson our captain, isma-eel dollie at flyhalf and all sort of other names. i remember being so excited seeing the newly selected “future” Springbok flyhalf Meyer Bosman warm up on the sideline!
Soda what did SARU do to that dream?!
They used millions upon millions of SARugby money to obliterate it? It is 4 years and 17 odd days since that match was played Soda and still the Eastern Cape is begging for a Franchise and you are suggesting we wait another 5 years?
3 Feb 2010, 21:58 pm
@52 BuckT
You who, by your own admission, understand so little yet seemingly can see so much and then extrapolate, please tell all those who read this thread what are the numbers for the up-coming lottery. Not only are you a liar but you clearly do not have the smarts to deal with any of the facts and ideas. You are deficient and thus of no consequence in a debate where the facts are so glaringly painful to observe let alone admit to, that you, by choice, resort to psychological conclusions based on nothing. You deserve a Nobel award for such clairvoyance.
The cliches, coming from the likes of you, are emotional outburts but still meaningless. They are nothing but like water on a duck’s back.
Learn to deal and challenge the facts and the ideas by me and others like TonyM.
3 Feb 2010, 22:26 pm
@elliott2:
I wouldn’t worry about it none Mr.Elliot.
Fact is most South African rugby adherents are rather more interested in what lays beneath the Shroud of Turin than arriving at the truth of any matter.
As you correctly suggest, its minority interest groups that protect their minority standings in their majority shares of a minority sport within a country that is creaking at the seems for majority hope. But little Dicky boy blue won’t have enough fingers or thumbs to stop up all the leaking holes in the minority dike, before too long this dam wall too shall burst.
3 Feb 2010, 22:35 pm
@skopskiet: hehehe
this new skop impostor is also a funny guy…
3 Feb 2010, 22:36 pm
funny is as funny does
hallelujah muchacha
3 Feb 2010, 22:43 pm
@skopskiet
If only they had some small bit of your wisdom and much less of the selfishness that they so worship, then life for them and others could be so more pleasant and pleasurable for all.
Too many of them seems to get an “F” for having a philosophical understanding of the demands of life.
Do they not realise if they are the only one in thousands in a region to have a car then the likyhood of that car being stolen is huge.
‘Dom’, that is the word that mostly befits their description.
3 Feb 2010, 22:50 pm
@elliott2: haha, stolen and chopped up and re-sprayed or chopped up and sold for parts?
3 Feb 2010, 22:50 pm
@Pearl Rose
Hey! Pearly, rest assured this is the real deal, it is Skoppie. He is just warming up for the games to begin in mid Feb.
Too many are already claiming that a S.A. side will win the S14, yet to my way of thinking it is only after the 5th game or so that we will be in a position to begin to separate the men from the boys. So much emotionalism and too little realism. Our rugby stocks are actually dipping seriously and I do not expect us to feature seriously in WC2011 the way things are going.
3 Feb 2010, 22:52 pm
@elliott2: how do you feel about the beast?
should he be kicked out or be hailed as a role model for black kids, proving that the “verkramptes are wrong to hold black people back”?
and what do you think of the merits of a rush defense vs a drift defense?
you are an interesting chap and i would really like to engage you on actual rugby issues if you are up to it?
3 Feb 2010, 22:54 pm
@67 Pearl Rose
Does not matter how it is marketed therafter but it will be stolen. Thus it would be wisdom to get hundreds of cars for more to not be angry.
3 Feb 2010, 22:54 pm
when the dam bursts and black rugby players come pouring out of every crack, south africa will be unstoppable.
as long as merit is then the overriding criterion for selection.
3 Feb 2010, 22:58 pm
touche monsieur
perhaps one can but hope for some little ha’penny or farthing to drop down their well of hopeless lack of veracity where rights and wrongs don’t even vaguely equate one to another.
I guess that’s what dreams are for, to dream the impossible. And it too shall pass, or someday (maybe even soon) become reality.
3 Feb 2010, 23:03 pm
on second thoughts, i am not really up to it tonight.
elliot, i am sure we will chat sometime.
until then, have a fine evening.
3 Feb 2010, 23:05 pm
@ 69 rangerman
Out of the blue you ask me about the beast. Which beast? The ones in Avatar or the genuine ones in Africa.
Do you think I should read your question with any degree of honesty or with much deception and deceit. You know you are fishing but I know it is in the dark. You know you have a history but I know right now you do not know mine. It can take more than just you to play this game, so play on Mr. Sharkie but do not cry if I frustrate you when you come bursting down the door.
About the Beast(note the capital B for a name otherwise you could be accused of being disrespectful), and the question for me it is simple. His sponsors and advisors were being deceitful not to ensure citizenship for him. Even more simply, since he is not a citizen of the R.of S.A. he does not qualify for selection to the national team.
You are clearly here to show how ‘smart’ you think you are.
3 Feb 2010, 23:10 pm
@ rangerman
For every action their is an opposite and equal reaction, most times but not all times.
3 Feb 2010, 23:15 pm
elliot2….you are an interesting fellow….dont think we been formally introduced …so hi there…
3 Feb 2010, 23:26 pm
@grant10: That was not formal….!!
3 Feb 2010, 23:29 pm
Gatkruipers!!
3 Feb 2010, 23:30 pm
@ grant10
It is fine and thanks but I do know you and Robbo as you are good and strong supporters of the same team I fancy.
And I agree with you that the biggest malady presently in S.A. is playing players out of their known, chosen and preferred positions even in C.T., for example De Jong, Grant, Conrad Hoofman, and now Kritzinger the prop. who in the CC of 2008 was developing superbly as a TH but who, unfortunately, got a traing injury in pre-season training for 2009(missing the 2009 S14) and they recently said they would convert him to LH and switch Moller to TH from LH. Does not make any damn sense this stupid policy even for the national team where there are more such examples.
3 Feb 2010, 23:30 pm
@JL1: Care to translate?
3 Feb 2010, 23:32 pm
If it was not for players being tested out of position Larkham would still be a fullback
3 Feb 2010, 23:33 pm
Carol
Just seems that the only thing that many bloggers can taste tonight is old elliots behind
3 Feb 2010, 23:34 pm
@ carol
Are you poking your nose where it does not have to be poked id.est.(i.e.) in South African business? Is that a modern day of example of English arrogance?
Not really interested in the answer as I surely do know it.
3 Feb 2010, 23:35 pm
@JL1: Behave, everyone is chilled tonight and not feeling in a scrappy mood!!
Where are you watching England v Wales?
Don’t tell me you are going to watch paint dry as it is more entertaining!!
3 Feb 2010, 23:37 pm
@elliott2: Pleased to meet you too –
Thats how we polite English people greet ‘newcomers’!!
3 Feb 2010, 23:39 pm
Carol
I tried to get tickets at bthe cinema for the 3D broadcast but sadly all sold out
3 Feb 2010, 23:39 pm
@81 & 82. JL1
Because you are now a loner, deserted by your “makkers”, you try much too hard and come across as a typical Afrikaner disappointee, loaded with rudeness stemming from frustration of not being able to be in the motherland.
3 Feb 2010, 23:41 pm
I am never a newcomer ion my own damn country silly girl.
3 Feb 2010, 23:42 pm
Where is Dawn, she loves a ‘brawl?
3 Feb 2010, 23:42 pm
Elliot or is that doctor?
No frustration and definitely not your typical Afrikaner
3 Feb 2010, 23:43 pm
@JL1: So ‘Invictus’, is that on your cinema ‘To Do’ list?
3 Feb 2010, 23:44 pm
@elliott2: No, new to Keo silly boy!!
3 Feb 2010, 23:46 pm
Carol
Invictus on Friday and I will now book the 3D broadcast for Eng v Ireland
What are you up beside meddling in others business
3 Feb 2010, 23:53 pm
@elliott2: beware JL1 thinks he is the “de la Rey” of the blog.
3 Feb 2010, 23:55 pm
@ 93
Stupid girl you will not ever know that so do not take chances. Keo is S.Acan so nothing is new to a S.Acan either way.
But I am done with you antics.
3 Feb 2010, 23:57 pm
@JL1: Cornwall for the weekend..
Me meddle!!
I am reading Invictus, it is really good read!
3 Feb 2010, 23:57 pm
Pearly you really do not know what de la Rey actually stood for so thanks for the compliment
3 Feb 2010, 23:59 pm
@95 elliott2
While I quite like Britain, you are clearly not my cup of tea. Clearer than that I cannot spell it for oppotunists.
3 Feb 2010, 23:59 pm
@Pearl Rose: Hi, how have I upset Elliot2….
I did not realise Saffa males were so sensivite?
4 Feb 2010, 00:00 am
@JL1: De La Rey hated the English too….
I am on sticky ground here tonight, where is Big Hit when you need him!
4 Feb 2010, 00:01 am
@ Pearl Rose
He, however comes across as a sick joke.
You do know tho’ that WPTID claims to be a descendant of the General of those times.
4 Feb 2010, 00:01 am
Carol you just not her pardon, his cup of tea
4 Feb 2010, 00:06 am
@elliott2: Give Rosie a moment and he will find the original comment and date that WPTID made that comment!!
He is our archivist!!
Cheer up, I am OK really!
4 Feb 2010, 00:08 am
@JL1: Not sure either of us are!!
Think he got out of bed on the wrong side today, or perhaps he is just a Lions Supporter….That must be stressful!
4 Feb 2010, 00:08 am
@JL1: not the old General de la ReY, but the Bok van Blerk version, hence the inverted commas…you are so quick to lap up compliments chill.
4 Feb 2010, 00:11 am
Pearly both versions are the same if you really knew anything about Afrikaners
We do not bite, you do not have to be afraid of us
4 Feb 2010, 00:13 am
@carol: relax Carol elliott is just testing your temeperant, he will soon see you are harmless. Only thing though he should not spell out any secrets to you, you know how you are
4 Feb 2010, 00:17 am
@JL1: firstly you assumed that i did not know who the real de la Rey was and now you figure i do not know afrikaners. What is next, am i n*ger*an too?
4 Feb 2010, 00:17 am
@103
No opportunist is ever “OK” to me. They are all unprincipled oafs. They always tend to bite the hand of those that succoured them.
4 Feb 2010, 00:20 am
@Pearl Rose: Harmless…..I have been described in more interesting ways before!!
But harmless will do!!
4 Feb 2010, 00:21 am
Pearly you are the assuming one
Well are you a Nig?rian?
4 Feb 2010, 00:23 am
So Elliot you still out to insult the lady?
4 Feb 2010, 00:26 am
@elliott2: Are you a Lions supporter?
4 Feb 2010, 00:27 am
@107 Pearl Rose
You surprise me that comment. As the South African of principles that I read you to be, You know that NO opportunist is ever harmless. They always only do harm even if in ignorance. And I know you will understand that.
4 Feb 2010, 00:29 am
@JL1: Make a joke about ‘formal introductions’ …….and whooshhhhhh, Elliot is on me like a heat seeking missile!!
4 Feb 2010, 00:31 am
Carol she does not like you what have you done to her?
4 Feb 2010, 00:32 am
@carol:have you registered for superBru?
@elliott2: relax man, i have too much dirt on carol, so even in the event that her “opportunistic” tendencies pop up i can neutralise her.
4 Feb 2010, 00:32 am
@elliott2:
4 Feb 2010, 00:33 am
@JL1: A mystery to me !!
4 Feb 2010, 00:34 am
Carol
Dirt? Spill the beans
4 Feb 2010, 00:35 am
@112 JL1
Why don’t you fight on your own behalf and not on her behalf, you so chivalrous one. Besides, what lady? All I note is a girl maybe a woman but definitely an opportunist never qualifies for the term lady surely I ask?
4 Feb 2010, 00:37 am
Are we not but all opportunists, Elliot and what is wrong with being an opportunist
4 Feb 2010, 00:38 am
@Pearl Rose: I am doing two 6 Nations ones and two Super 14 Superbrus.
I somehow don’t think I will be able to retain my 6th Position that I gained in the Keo’s Night Owls pool after last years Super 14.
A small triumph for an English female that had never really heard of The Chiefs or The Brumbies before!!
Oh yes the dirt on me, the nation holds it’s breath!! Hahahahah
4 Feb 2010, 00:38 am
@117 Pearl Rose
Hey! I know that,@carol: and that is why I made that specific comment to you and only you because you are to understand its significance.
4 Feb 2010, 00:39 am
@JL1:
I have NO idea!!!
4 Feb 2010, 00:40 am
Elliot you sound like a real drama queen
4 Feb 2010, 00:40 am
@elliott2: elliot, i am deeply offended by your tone.
do you not trust me because i am white?
judging by your posts, you may be punching above your weight anyway. i am sure you are able to hold the floor with your buddies by showing your zeal and shouting people down but i asked you a question and you didnt answer it.
that tealls me you are uncomfortable with the question. this leads me to a whole host of conclusions about your views and the shifting moral ground you find yourself on.
as i said, i am sure we will have the opportunity to engage one another.
i look forward to a rugby post from you at some stage of your keo sojourn.
until then, have a fine evening.
4 Feb 2010, 00:41 am
Anyway I off to Neverland cheers
4 Feb 2010, 00:42 am
@113
Lions! what lions? They are the beasts, kings of the African jungle. They will devour all before them so why should I like them when they will clearly kill me? What a silly question girl.
And don’t even try any other animal because the asnwer will be the same.
4 Feb 2010, 00:42 am
@elliott2: This is great, you are managing to make me sound ‘interesting’!!
No, I was not the ‘other woman’ in John Terry’s life either, but then again you may not be subject to that nonsense in S.A!! Our England football Captain playing ‘Away form Home’!!
4 Feb 2010, 00:43 am
@elliott2: funnily enough, your writing style reminds me of a certain latvian.
again, farewell my undercover brother from another saffa mother
4 Feb 2010, 00:43 am
@JL1: See you JL1 – Have a lekker slaap
4 Feb 2010, 00:49 am
Night All –
Elliot, I am delighted that at last someone does not find me to be ladylike!!
So refreshing!
4 Feb 2010, 00:54 am
@127 rangerman
What do you really expect when you burst, so uncalled, through the door like that with questions out of the blue that I had never made a comment on.
Also I have never yet, on this planet, seen a white person, as you say, and I have surely never seen you yet, so why the reference to colour (a wrong one at that).
Am I compelled to answer your question? Really?
Further again you make assumptions in the complete dark and you lie by saying I never answered your question because I said that he is not a citizen and therefore does not qualify for the national team.
Your fishing and assumptions bothers me not one bit. Go and fish somewhere, anywhere on your Natal coast and not here ny me you superficial one.
Now get further irritated and see whether I care.
4 Feb 2010, 00:55 am
@carol: do you miss Hater?
@elliott2: think of it as form defensive counter-intelligence.
4 Feb 2010, 00:58 am
@131 rangerman
Good on the Latvian. he must have some quality then but I am 150% South African and can you claim the same?
4 Feb 2010, 01:00 am
@135 Pearl Rose
I understand and am with you on that score.
Okay I have had enough fun for this day, got to do some urgent work now.
4 Feb 2010, 01:12 am
@elliott2: cheers elliott, it is about time i turned it myself.
4 Feb 2010, 05:25 am
Evem liberal minded Watson must be pulling clumps of his hair out over the ineptitude of his simian brothers.
Jy wil mos maaitjie naaier…
4 Feb 2010, 14:43 pm
@carol: Don’t take Elliott seriously ( I’m sure you have figured that out for yourself).He’s just typical of a certain type of person who thinks he’s smarter than he really is and then continually proves that he isn’t.
4 Feb 2010, 17:13 pm
@Transformation: Tannie this is a little late but I wanted to respond to your post. The big issue is this. People are confusing the beautiful game and the commercial viability of the sport with S15. S15 is irrelevant to establishing rugby in Port Elizabeth & East London.
What is important is establishing rugby as an entertainment destination first, then moving it upstream as demand and viability takes hold.
I would suggest that the administrators do more than waffle around about S15 franchises and actually do stuff to build the game now – a solid CC team with exciting players who are “draws” in and of themselves – character & personality and “star power” in the region. SARU need to establish a/THE Center of Excellence in PE or East London. Every player of potential from a young age should be given boarding school scholarships to the excellent rugby schools in the region, and then in to the universities. At least 6 competitive club sides need to be nurtured.
PE & East London MUST host a Test match every year so that there is more immediate relationship with the national side. PE & East London must host fringe tours ahead of the larger unions.
Developing a culture of rugby with personality and character all of it’s own is the opportunity.
The faffing around on S15 is counter productive. S15 is not the be all and end all of rugby in the Eastern Cape, and it is the red herring in the net of personal political chicanery.
The Mighty Elephants is a much better name than the Southern Whatevers.
This is a business, it is an opportunity like no other in South African rugby, we seem to be too dof or to self-absorbed in the ever disappearing nature of our belly-buttons in the expanding girths resulting from too much gravy on the train.
Focus on the game. Don’t focus on the tournament.
4 Feb 2010, 18:37 pm
@SodaJoe: thanks for responding soda…you express very noble ideas and thoughts. The current leadership as mentioned has been in-charge for a year & 2 months, and i can tell you in that time they have dedicated more time and energy at reviving the Mighty Elephants, making the brand visible to the public, they got de wet barry in and all sort of other things. It is a work in progress.
Now Soda i would like you to tell me whether the same culture of star-studded rugby you are referring to exists in the free state with the cheetahs or in gauteng with the golden lions?
These regions were HANDED franchises by SARU, were all these things you are talking about in place when this happened? Are they in place now?
Everyone seems to either have their own grandiose ideas of what the Eastern Cape needs or should do or putting up hurdles and flaming hoops for EP to jump over & through!
Point me to a succesful case study of what you are talking about Soda!
4 Feb 2010, 18:55 pm
@Transformation:
The Free State were playing in Currie Cup finals back in 1997, not to mention winning Currie Cups in 2005, 2006 and 2007.
They punch way above their weight. Same as Griquas, who are currently a GIANT on the field compared to the “Mighty” Elephants.
For what reason can EP not beat all of the smaller unions? Griquas is surviving largely on the sponsorship of a single company – Wildeklawer.
In the PE region you have probably 5 times as many corporates as in the entire Free State and Kimberley areas combined.
So why can’t you manage it? And why could the “old guard” manage it, before it as all “transformed?”
4 Feb 2010, 19:12 pm
Transman
Unyaka omtsha oyokozela amathamsanqa xhego!!!
You are wasting your time by trying to reason with these self appointed experts of the need for top rugby in the Eastern Cape. Vested/selfish interests will make it extremely hard for Cheeky’s union to get top rugby. Remember Cheeky is/was a veraaier(umngcatshi) to some of our compatriots. Imagine Cheeky getting credit for bringing top rugby in that part of the world and he has done some excellent work in terms of reguvenating rugby there.
I saw EP during the Vodacom playoffs – very competitive. Nobody is asking for what was never done in the past. Natal was promoted from the B division of the old currie cup and was proven to be an excellent move. Are people asking too much for EP rugby?
Logic will take you nowhere here.
4 Feb 2010, 20:15 pm
@Transformation: Well that’s my idea, if I owned the franchise.
If people have better ideas that move beyond court cases, sniping in the media, and focus on getting some good young players who are athletic, talented, good looking, good with media and good in community relations then be my guest.
De Wet Barry is not that guy.
I don’t think you’re comparing apples to apples, and anyway it is fruitless and moot anyway. The franchises exist, no one is going to take them away – and it’s just posturing to think so.
So let’s do Job 1. Build up a helluva team in Port Elizabeth AND East London.
4 Feb 2010, 20:22 pm
@Peter Mkata: Peter – Natal was promoted as you correctly state. They were not given a free ticket up. And there was tremendous angst when they were “relegated”.
Again, S15 for E Cape is an emotional argument, not a rational commercial argument. And in my opinion just a dof focus on the wrong thing – a tournament vs the game itself.
Flok it. Let the Mighty Elephants get built on a foundation of a terrific rugby culture, and that should not be hard – it’s there already.
Here’s an analogy. For my sins in this and past lives I have supported Leeds United for 40 years. Leeds attendance was teh 5′th highest in the league the year we were relegated to Division 1 (haha – 3′rd Division) and deducted in effect 20 points. Because people love the club and the game, not the League they are in.
That’s what we have to do in E Cape rugby.
4 Feb 2010, 20:30 pm
@SodaJoe: yes….agree…but soda….the other 5 franchises cannot be allowed to do as badly as some have without ramifications….surely a last team gets relegated is not too much to expect?
5 Feb 2010, 00:19 am
@grant10: I have no issue with a promotion relegation match between the bottom SA S15 side and the franchise who lost out.
Cumbersome, as the promotion chasing “team” is not a team, as for a year they will not have played really.
The economics become very very fragile for the relegated franchise.
I doubt this is ever going to happen.
And my argument is that a sustainable business needs to be nurtured, not thrown in to Walmart first go around. Start in Spar and move your way up. Take the knocks and learn the lessons when you can afford it.
5 Feb 2010, 00:21 am
@SodaJoe: spar > walmart
5 Feb 2010, 00:24 am
@SodaJoe: hahaha i know you love leeds united and i admire you for it, i also was partial towards them for obvious reasons…
BUT you lose the plot when you start comparing leeds and the Premiership to the helter skelter, skulduggery & unprofessional way rugby is run in this country!!! YOU are comparing apples with peas…
Case in point, is Newcastle United, they played k@k last year and what happened? They’re in the Championship today, no sentimentality that the Geordies have been in top flight since nineteen-v*etsek, they didn’t get the required points so CHEERS to them! No sentimentality!
This is professional sport i am talking about! Burnley, Wolverhamton Wanderers you’re up! We don’t care how many fans your stadium can take or fanbase you have, you’re up!
Now is south african rugby you do not have that and the so-called Big unions that prop up the bottom of the S14 every year will never agree to it and some here want to tell me about “sound business principles”? Not a chance soda!
Until rugby becomes professional it will always be manipulated by the minority verkrampte who think it is their birth right and they and only they can run it!
Goeie nag!
5 Feb 2010, 00:37 am
@SodaJoe: do you think the economics are favourable for Newcastle United now Soda? Were they favourable for Leeds who got relegated after competing very well in the Champions League?! You have grandiose ideas about what Eastern Cape rugby should be, but South African business follows maximum exposure! As soon as Danny Jordaan and his team secured the World Cup Bid, everybody and their mother wanted to sponsor the PSL where previously teams went for 2 years without sponsors!
5 Feb 2010, 00:54 am
@Transformation: Bud it’s just my opinion, and what my approach would be.
Right now all I see is posturing.
I would certainly not look at the PSL as any commercial role model.
5 Feb 2010, 07:23 am
@SodaJoe: all very well then Soda
as i said earlier this new administration, up until now seems to be moving in the right direction as far as getting the Mighty Elephants to be competitive and on a good financial footing.
I just feel, that with the history of how things are & were done at SARU, expecting the Eastern Cape to jump through flaming hoops to get to Super rugby when there is no precedent for that kind of thing anywhere else is very disingenous.
5 Feb 2010, 07:30 am
@Peter Mkata: ndibulisile ndod’ enkulu! Ndilibele nokubulisa izolo ngenxa yokungxamela ukuphendula ezinkewu. Ndiyathemba unyaka ukuphethe kakuhle ndikunqwenelela amathamsanqa odwa.
6 Apr 2010, 08:55 am
I would love if the Southern Kings gets a big big sponsor and they are able to buy all the oversea players of South Africa and from a team. People Like Brent Barret, F Steyn, B Mujati, BJ Botha, CJ van der linde. The list goes on. Then they will be able to play in the boks team and we will be that much a stronger side for the world cup.
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