Kissing Newlands goodbye
8 Feb 2010
Western Province rugby must move to Cape Town Stadium in Green Point.
While the WPRFU has insisted they will be staying at Newlands post-2010, Saturday’s fixture between Boland and the Stormers could force them to reconsider.
It was impossible for the 40 000 people who attended the pre-season game not to draw comparisons between the new stadium and WP’s home ground on the other side of Table Mountain. Quite simply, the one is modern, light and uplifting, while the other is old-fashioned, dark and depressing.
After the match, Stormers coach Allister Coetzee praised Cape Town Stadium’s excellent facilities and said he felt like they were playing overseas, while referee Mark Lawrence said the pitch was the best he’d ever experienced.
Those fans who I chatted to were also extremely impressed with the venue, from the five-star toilets to the concourse level that allows you to walk around the entire stadium in a few minutes to the translucent roof that covers every seat to the excellent sound system.
Parking wasn’t a problem as fans could leave their cars at the Cape Town Convention Centre and take a shuttle to the stadium a couple of kilometres away, while those who wanted to braai after the game could do so on the surrounding sports fields.
Traditionalists will baulk at the prospect of Newlands being consigned to history, but they need to put sentiment aside and get with the times. Just because Newlands has been the home of WP rugby for over a hundred years doesn’t mean WP should have to play there for another hundred.
Imagine if the Wellington Rugby Union had listened to traditionalists and decided to stay put at the old Athletic Park rather than move to Westpac Stadium – a modern, world-class venue that is closer to the city centre. Imagine if the Welsh Rugby Union had listened to traditionalists and renovated the old Cardiff Arms Park rather than build the Millennium Stadium, which is now regarded as the best rugby ground in the world.
Newlands is inevitably going to suffer the same fate as those other rugby relics, and it’s time WP administrators accept this. They need to start preparing for the future, and the future of WP rugby – whether they like it or not – is in Green Point.
By Simon Borchardt
Photo © Rory Ross/HSM Images
167 Comments
8 Feb 2010, 10:12 am
Simon this has been the most thoughtless article surrounding the issue I have ever read.
It is an emotional reasoning to a situation that has massive financial implications.
Let’s consider the following.
CPT Stadium has two entry points, along the road either entering from CPT CBD or Green Point area.
You park about 5km away from the stadium and take a bus ride to the stadium (do they charge for this?)
The CPT stadium only seats about 15K people more than Newlands??? Have I got that about right?
Most importantly, Newlands is wholly owned by WPRFU which effectively means it is wholly owned by the clubs of WPRFU.
Sure selling this off will give them a great capital boost from the sales, but at what recurrent cost for renting the CPT stadium and competing with other codes like soccer (of which CPT has two teams in the SPL)?
Your reason for WP Rugby moving from what I read is because the CPT stadium is prettier???
8 Feb 2010, 10:14 am
Glad I’m not a WP supporter. But as a Bulls supporter, I guess I’m in favour of the move. From what I’ve read, it is not a rugby stadium so much as a soccer stadium.
And the fact that the crowd is so far from the action means that the atmosphere will be so much more accommodating for visiting teams. I expect my Bulls will find it far easier to play there than at the “highly atmospheric” Newlands.
So go ahead, move, by all means.
8 Feb 2010, 10:16 am
@PissAnt: In my view, watching rugby at the Cape Town Stadium is a better experience than watching rugby at Newlands. Of course there will be financial implications, but surely WP can sort something out with Sail StadeFrance (who obviously want WP to move). WP should at least be seriously considering it.
8 Feb 2010, 10:16 am
@PissAnt:
No, apparently after the World Cup the 68000 capacity will be reduced to 55000 or something along those lines – if I heard the CEO guy correctly on Boots and All the other night. So no real advantage over Newlands in terms of capacity.
Basically, Simon is willing to throw away 100 years of tradition – for which he feels squat in any case – just so that he can sit in a more comfortable press box.
8 Feb 2010, 10:17 am
@Tacitus: Funnily enough, the crowd at Green Point isn’t far away from the action (and every seat has a decent view of the field).
8 Feb 2010, 10:20 am
@Simon:
So are the front rows as close to the field as at Newlands then? Because on TV, it looked like there was a significant strip of grass behind the dead ball line, and extensive open space next to the touchlines as well.
8 Feb 2010, 10:20 am
@Simon:
Did you sit in the press box or the stands?
@Tacitus:
Forgot about that, some of the seating there for the SWC is only temp and they will building more hospitality suites.
I have been to the stadium, it is beautiful but in my view, let soccer have it and get the odd open air concert there to boost funds.
I enjoy the rugby at Newlands personally thanks.
8 Feb 2010, 10:23 am
@PissAnt: I sat in various ‘fans’ seats around the stadium before the game and the press box during the game.
8 Feb 2010, 10:23 am
@Tacitus:
The one touch line (main pavilion) is a bit further from the grass as there is a astro-turf like surface for players to warm-up sit.
Each and every seat in the staduim is no more than 196 meters from the action (or something like that) which is apparently the studied, best distance to follow sport from.
There are also no pillars in the stadium for a full 360 view from every angle and seat.
Engineering wise it is a beautiful stadium. But rugby in a bowl does not have the same effect for me.
8 Feb 2010, 10:25 am
@Simon:
One big screen wasn’t working and that is the smallest scoreboard I have ever seen.
There’s no music at injury time.
Newlands for me any day.
8 Feb 2010, 10:26 am
First WP then The Sharks, death of the famous RSA rugby ‘in your face’ rectangular stadiums.
8 Feb 2010, 10:26 am
@Tacitus:
We sat in the fourth row, and we were pretty close to the action, Tac.
The front row people were very close to the players come lineout time.
8 Feb 2010, 10:26 am
@PissAnt:
It’s the exact same issue as the new Port Elizabeth stadium. Built at a cost of billions, without proper post world cup feasibility analysis. So now that they have incurred the costs they use it as a form of blackmail to force other sporting codes to help them pay for it.
Hence the Spears/Kings argument, and the heavy push to move WP out of Newlands. In my view, if soccer can’t pay for it, then that’s their problem. They should rather have upgraded existing stadia – as they did to Loftus – than waste money on unnecessary new ones.
Look, if WP sell Newlands, they’ll probably make hundreds of millions and instantly become the riches union in the country. But do they really want to lose their home and rely on a rented venue in future?
8 Feb 2010, 10:26 am
I’ve been to a few grounds but Newlands take the cake by a mile, cant buy tradition
8 Feb 2010, 10:27 am
@Simon:
You never sat where I was.
Goodness did we bake in the sun.
8 Feb 2010, 10:28 am
Nevertheless …………..
THAT STADIUM IS KWAAI.
8 Feb 2010, 10:29 am
@Simon:
I would agree that the press boxes in Newlands are not ideal, and is better in the new stadium, obviously the facilities will be spectacular too since its brand new.
But the bowl effect in rugby really does not work for me.
Apart from the financial implications to consider the access to the stadium concerns me.
I will be very wary to park my car in the center of CPT on Friday nights and Saturday afternoons and evenings and catch a bus to the stadium (apart from the fact that I hate busses and public transport in general).
There are no real benefit as to supporter numbers coming through the gates either.
The only real ‘gain’ from all this is that we now play rugby in a prettier stadium.
If you think of what is gained, and what is lost with a move like this, it makes little sense to me personally.
Rather spend a few million over the next 10 years to upgrade facilities at Newlands then a few million every year renting a ‘new’ stadium which is effectively pissing money into the water (renting).
Looking at the pro’s and con’s – does not make sense.
8 Feb 2010, 10:29 am
@Dawn:
The scoreboard doesn’t have the teams, the time elapsed, etc etc.
Just … the score.
8 Feb 2010, 10:30 am
Simon – I must disagree with you on this one mate. Tradition – is everything in rugby, as with a few other sporting codes too. Just go ask any golfer if the US Masters should move from Augusta; or if Wimbledon should move from Wimbledon??
Newlands is also wholly-owned by the WPRFU – and is our traditional home for over 120 years. It is perfect for the needs of rugby – and, by being wholly-owned, free from the ‘influence’ of whatever political entity who may be running the city council at the time. Why should rugby have to bail soccer out – when upgrading Newlands for the SWC was an option – and much, much cheaper than the multi-billion Rand white elephant in Green Point.
Anyways – rugby people will decide. And rugby people have chosen to stay at Newlands. What happens to the GP stadium is of no concern to rugby.
8 Feb 2010, 10:30 am
@PissAnt:
There were considerable queues for the busses but they moved quickly though.
And the busses were the old ones. Would’ve thought there’d be the new ones.
8 Feb 2010, 10:32 am
@Nick Armstrong:
The stadium was built for 2010 soccer.
Not rugby.
We were part of the guinea pig process.
8 Feb 2010, 10:32 am
@Tacitus:
The problem you guys in PE and the Sharks boys sit with is they still rent their stadiums from the local municipality, Newlands or WP rugby does not.
So they can be ‘forced’ to move (by not renewing rental agreements or contracts) whereas WP rugby cannot be bullied in this sense.
Clubs (thank God) decided they are not moving.
And I agree, you cannot sell 100 years for something that just looks and feels prettier…
Rugby is not about pretty…
8 Feb 2010, 10:33 am
@Simon:
Yo Simon.
How do I get shares in HAM.
8 Feb 2010, 10:33 am
@Dawn: Those problems will be sorted out before the World Cup, according to Morne du Plessis (chairman of Sail Stade France)
8 Feb 2010, 10:35 am
@Dawn:
Looking that some games will end at 21:00 only, it might mean you have to catch a bus at 21:30 or 22:00 just to get to your car, in the CBD of Cape Town…
Although our city is pretty safe I am sorry, I am not comfortable with that.
8 Feb 2010, 10:36 am
Hou dop…
Cut and Paste this……..
(Sail / Vodacom ….. Johan Rupert)
(CT / Greenpoint Stadium ….. Johan Rupert)
They will “outbid” Newlands for the tests….. nou dop!
It’s gonna happen……
Mark my words…
Let’s talk in 5 years.
8 Feb 2010, 10:36 am
@PissAnt:
Just to clarify: I don’t have any problems, I just sit back and enjoy the circus. My team have scored big time out of the world cup – they got their stadium, which they own, upgraded in a package deal. Now there’s an extra roof on the East Stand.
Great stuff. What the other unions do, well, that’s their problem. I’m glad to hear WP are sticking to their guns. Seems like the Sharks are in trouble, though.
8 Feb 2010, 10:36 am
Gee jou hart vir Nuweland
8 Feb 2010, 10:38 am
nou – hou
8 Feb 2010, 10:38 am
@PissAnt:
Cape Town CBD is pretty safe, PissAnt, especially if there will be same, continued police presence we saw on Saturday at every future game.
8 Feb 2010, 10:40 am
@WP Till I Die:
Can’t guarantee that SAP presence though.
8 Feb 2010, 10:41 am
@Staal: Exactly. It’s like how Sydney Tests are played at the Olympic Stadium and not the Sydney Football Stadium.
8 Feb 2010, 10:41 am
@Staal:
Tests are afforded to home unions, not locations or enterprises.
Therefore tests are given the WPRFU – where they decide to play the tests of course is up to them.
@WP Till I Die:
I drive through CBD daily, I know our city is relatively safe, but with the influx of traffic (people in this case moving from cars to bus drop off and pick up points) so to will you see an increase in crime – simple statistics game.
BTW, police presence is something quite different from the batton wielding security guys we see lots of in CPT.
8 Feb 2010, 10:42 am
@Dawn:
Yip. Not the SAP.
But the SAPS, yes.
(SAP is so 1980s, kind of like Shaun Langenhoven’s thinking)
8 Feb 2010, 10:43 am
@PissAnt:
Yeesh
Leaving stadium on Saturday was like being in Apocalyse Now.
Helicopters clattering overhead every 30 seconds.
8 Feb 2010, 10:44 am
@PissAnt:
Pissant it’s more than just the sentimental aspect, it the whole experience factor, having the resturants, pubs in the V&A, Greenpoint area , the ease of accessibilty to and out of the stadium (although some work still needs to be done), makes it a more “attractive” package.
Getting to and out of Newlands has become a rather unpleasant experience.
We have a world class facilty, why not embarce it ?
The only reason of staying at Newlands would be the tradition and sentimetal aspect, it will bbe sad to move, but I really believe it is time to move on !!
8 Feb 2010, 10:45 am
@Dawn:
Hehe…
Expectedly too, like you said everything is tested for the SWC.
My concern is, once that is done, will we see the same being applied?
8 Feb 2010, 10:45 am
embarce =embrace
8 Feb 2010, 10:46 am
I remember a case study from economics some years ago where the whole fallacy of building new stadia and supposed corresponding economic growth was exposed.
It came from the US, where politicians campaigned to build a new baseball stadium in some city. They loudly proclaimed all the supposed advantages: All the ticket sales, stalls, sporting activity and music concerts etc. would generate huge income for the city, and more than pay off the hundreds of millions of dollars it cost to build the thing.
But, as it turned out, there was no net increase in the city’s economic activity. All it did, was transfer consumer spending from existing activities in the city to the new one. So what the city gained from the new stadium, it lost in expenditure on older stadia and the restaurants, pubs and other business that were now being visited less frequently by people who were visiting the new stadium.
So the bottomline was nil total gain for the city, but they still sat with the hundreds of millions of debt incurred to erect the new stadium. So in short, a net loss was incurred, at taxpayer’s expense, or whoever funded the whole deal.
A lot of excitement over hot air, in the end. The city as a whole lost out. Now multiply that across the entire South Africa, and you get the net effect of the world cup.
The Newlands/Greenpoint issue is just a micro-level example of the larger scale fiasco.
8 Feb 2010, 10:46 am
@PissAnt:
I suppose I’m biased, since it’s the very same streets I patrol when I do reservist shifts.
I just think it could work out nicely if you have a properly policed pedestrian walkway all the way from the stadium to the train station, the train station is then kept open till late at night with night trains (properly policed ones) running.
People can then leave their cars at home, jump on trains which will have a nice vibe with lots of rugby supporters on it. Plus you cut the whole drink-driving angle out (to an extent)…
8 Feb 2010, 10:46 am
@PissAnt: Don’t wanna argue this,
You can “Cut and Paste” my comments – let’s talk in 5 years.
If i was wrong – you can tell me i was stupid.
If you were wrong…
i’ll just say “I told you so”
Hou dop..
Tradition counts for NOTHING when sieriaaaaas money is involved…..
Why keep on driving my 1963 Datsun bakkie when i can buy a Landcruiser 200 Series?????
It’s ganna happen…. hou dop!
8 Feb 2010, 10:47 am
@justrugby:
When last did you walk around Newlands and Clarement adjacent to Newlands?
There are plenty of Pubs and Restaurants in the area, including a moer of a mall too.
Parking has never been a problem – or rather, it is a relative problem of which the new stadium also has access problem relative to the stadium themselves.
The only reason to stay at Newlands is not only tradition or sentiment, as I mentioned earlier, Newlands is wholly owned by WPRFU, renting the new stadium is a waste of money compared to something you already own outright.
8 Feb 2010, 10:51 am
@Staal:
Well unless I am wrong which I do not think I am, then tell me I am wrong.
Tests are afforded to home unions, not private enterprises. That is the way SA Rugby works.
What could well happen is that SA Rugby makes it impossible for WPRFU to host a test, from the securities aspect unions has to pay SA Rugby in order to host a test, but then, why do that?
As mentioned, there is very little to choose between the two in the first place.
Unions hardly make millions from hosting tests these days.
8 Feb 2010, 10:52 am
@WP Till I Die:
Sorreeeeeeee
8 Feb 2010, 10:52 am
@PissAnt: i posted something regarding the finances of Wp/Stomers last week…
do you know that the Stormers bugdget was not approved by Vodacom / Sail…. do you maybe know why?
8 Feb 2010, 10:53 am
@WP Till I Die:
If we sort out public access and transport, then perhaps yes.
But then for my money, WPRFU needs to purchase a majority stake in the new stadium (from the sale of Newlands) for this to be financially viable.
I am not sentimental about Newlands in the least, but it makes little sense to me at this point in time.
8 Feb 2010, 10:53 am
@PissAnt:
To be honest, WPRFU has been selling off assets for a few years now…
I understand your point, but there is also the potential of a massive capital injection once you sell Newlands (for which there have been numerous offers).
Cape Town Stadium requires WPRFU to come to the party for it to be commercially viable, and Council realises this, so the WPRFU are in a pretty decent position to negotiate any eventual move to CT Stadium.
They might be able to secure very advantageous rental rates.
8 Feb 2010, 10:53 am
Eish …. now i am debating the point!
8 Feb 2010, 10:54 am
If you rent a stadium, are you allowed to paint your emblem on the seats (like the Bulls daisy at Loftus), erect a massive bronze statue of your team mascot (like the Bronze Bull in front of Loftus) and generally tailor the stadium to project the image of it being the “home” of your team?
Or do you just rock up on matchday – much like the visiting team – get kitted up and run out onto the field, ready to do battle on a neutral feeling ground?
8 Feb 2010, 10:55 am
@Staal:
Missed your post so I have no idea but can easily find out.
What I can tell you and which is no secret, is that WP Rugby has been in financial **** for a couple of years now only surviving for my money and what I noticed by selling off assets.
8 Feb 2010, 10:55 am
@justrugby:
What about Newlands then?
Leave it to go to rack and ruin?
8 Feb 2010, 10:55 am
@PissAnt: @WP Till I Die:
Actually, scratch that. Any financially beneficial move to CT Stadium by WPRFU would require some form of financial management acumen from the WPRFU administration.
Which, in my humble opinion, is utterly lacking.
8 Feb 2010, 10:56 am
@WP Till I Die:
Who ownes the stadia?
The council or Morne DuP’s company?
8 Feb 2010, 10:56 am
@PissAnt:
How are they buying Habana, Fourie and others then?
8 Feb 2010, 10:57 am
@Dawn:
WPRFU would make a **** load of money selling Newlands…
8 Feb 2010, 10:58 am
@Tacitus:
WP rugby has been selling fixed assets for years now.
8 Feb 2010, 10:59 am
@PissAnt:
The stadium is owned by the City of Cape Town. SAIL/Stade de France are the operators…
8 Feb 2010, 11:00 am
@Tacitus:
One would guess that they wangle budgets, but as far as pure organisational profits go from my understanding WP are not making much of that, if any at all.
2 Years ago they actually made a loss if memory serves…
8 Feb 2010, 11:00 am
@PissAnt:
That question I take as a sign of direspect , I have been going to Newlands since 1975, and our offices were in Protea road claremont !!!!
I am fully aware of this but in no way is it comparable to V&A or Greenpoint from a restaurant, pub perspevtive , not close !!!!
Parking have neever been a problem ????
WPRFU could make a fortune by selling that ground, hey if the likes of Arsenal, who probably have a richer history than Province can move from Highbury to the Emirates, Liverpool will be moving from Anfield one of these days, why not Province to a fantastic venue ??
8 Feb 2010, 11:01 am
@WP Till I Die:
So SAIL etc is leasing it from the Council in effect?
8 Feb 2010, 11:02 am
@WP Till I Die: Sail and “friens” financed it. So it “belongs” to the City of Cape town….. but they skuld a helluva lot of money on it to “Sail & friends”
8 Feb 2010, 11:02 am
@PissAnt:
Sail/Stade de France were awarded the service contract to operate the stadium during FIFA 2010 – the City of Cape Town pays them to manage the stadium up to and during the World Cup, after which the consortium will lease the stadium from the City for at least 10 years.
8 Feb 2010, 11:04 am
@PissAnt: @PissAnt:
Yes, they did make a loss.
And yes, SAIL/Stade de France is leasing it from the Council for a minimum of 10 years after the SWC, and a maximum of 30 years.
8 Feb 2010, 11:05 am
@justrugby:
Oh okay sorry then Toppie!!!
Parking in and around any stadium is not the most pleasant experience, my point is quite simple, although not great, WPRFU managed and still manages this effectively.
Parking at the new stadium has its own challenges, hence I said the problems faced is relative.
I am well aware WP will make lots of money selling Newlands, and it will be a massive cash injection.
But that comes at a price of selling an asset, and continuing in future to rent facilities which to me is a short term fix financially – not long term viable.
Arsenal, Wales and all the teams and clubs mentioned have moved from one thing they ‘owned’ to another thing they ‘own’ not so?
Massive difference.
Convince me that of the financial viability of a move like this and I would join in the choir, until then, does not make sense to me.
8 Feb 2010, 11:06 am
India 221/6
8 Feb 2010, 11:07 am
@justrugby: I totally agree with you, Pissant is being emotional about this rather pragmatic. If Liverpool can move out of Anfield, leaving behind “The Kop” after 100 years why cant Newlands, Lansdowne Road is gone, the Irish now have Aviva Stadium, Kings Park is no longer Kings Park is ABSA Stadium, Ellis Park is no longer Ellis Park.
Its simply, Greenpoint Stadium will simply outbid Newlands, remember money talks, you know what walks
8 Feb 2010, 11:08 am
@XhosaKid: “you know what walks” LMAO!
8 Feb 2010, 11:08 am
It must be said, that is one FINE looking stadium ! if it had a backdrop of Table that it would be nigh perfect. Is there anything near the new stadium yet, ie bars, restaurants etc ? plans to ?
8 Feb 2010, 11:09 am
@XhosaKid:
See #64.
8 Feb 2010, 11:10 am
@PissAnt:
Cool, let’s see how this pans out, I like most love Newlands, the history the tradition, but after taste of the new , I want more
222/7
8 Feb 2010, 11:10 am
@XhosaKid:
Name changes not the same as moving lock stock and barrel.
8 Feb 2010, 11:11 am
@Black Panther:
It does have a Table Mountain backdrop.
Everywhere here has a Table Mountain backdrop.
8 Feb 2010, 11:12 am
@justrugby:
If WPRFU decide to build or buy a New Newlands, buddy I am all for it.
This is not the case currently.
8 Feb 2010, 11:12 am
@Black Panther:
Bars and restaurants aplenty.
Hotels by the dozen.
Come visit.
I will give you a tour.
8 Feb 2010, 11:12 am
@justrugby:
Dale Steyn is on FIRE!
8 Feb 2010, 11:13 am
@justrugby:
Would you agree … just avoid the red area in summer?
8 Feb 2010, 11:15 am
can you imaging playing rugga in Green Point when a Cape storm is pumping off the ocean @ 100km per hour.
I’ve watched rugby @ Newlands since I was a child, there is no place like it. The carnival atmostphere on match day is the best.
WP will not move.
Rupert and SAIL can get into soccer IMO.
8 Feb 2010, 11:15 am
Well, if the Moses Mabhida stadium (Durban) compared to Absa stadium is anything to go by, these new stadiums realy makes the old seem very small and downright ugly. The new Durban stadium is right opposite the Tank, and there is simply no comparison between the two, I’m hoping the Sharks will make a move to the new stadium next year, it’s a beautifull venue. I’m guessing the same is true with the Cape Town stadium, hard not to make an emotional decision.
8 Feb 2010, 11:16 am
that the move will happen is enevitable….its only a matter of time.
This is big money and business
not tiddlywinks
Just never going to sit in the sun again!
8 Feb 2010, 11:16 am
@Dawn:
How was that sun !!!!, it’s called the red area for a reason
I look like a cooked crayfish !!
8 Feb 2010, 11:17 am
Whaaaaaaat… sun in CT? Can’t be!
8 Feb 2010, 11:17 am
@FireStraeuli:
I think the Durbs stadium is the pick of the bunch !!
8 Feb 2010, 11:18 am
@justrugby:
As do I – I resemble a high-season Pommie tourist.
8 Feb 2010, 11:18 am
226/8 – steyn picks up 5
8 Feb 2010, 11:19 am
@WP Till I Die:
8 Feb 2010, 11:20 am
If i have my facst correct the ground the Newlands occupies is not theirs, they merely have a leasehold on it.
8 Feb 2010, 11:22 am
@brains_trust:
Your are doing your nic no justice
8 Feb 2010, 11:22 am
@justrugby: and just look at what moving to the Emirates has done to Arsenal’s bottom line.??
8 Feb 2010, 11:22 am
@grant10: @justrugby: @WP Till I Die:
Listen people.
I still look comparatively normal.
Must be the cullart genes!
8 Feb 2010, 11:22 am
@justrugby: I was there this weekend, only saw it from the outside though, but it is a magnificent piece of artistry.
I looked at the poor old Shark tank, and it looked like a street child compared to the new stadium…simply beautifull!
It even has a sky car running along the massive oval beam over the stadium, sadly it was out of order, but what a view it will be.
8 Feb 2010, 11:24 am
@FireStraeuli:
And an income generator , I believe they charge for trips over the arch ??
8 Feb 2010, 11:25 am
@Staal:
Die mense het gebrand ****.
8 Feb 2010, 11:25 am
@FireStraeuli:
Economically, probably the stupidest move in the world and the reason the Sharks wont move is this.
Should the sharks make the move, they will be out of pocket to the tune of 40 million a year because of the lack of corporate suites at the new stadium.
The Sharks actually have the Durban municipality over a barrell on this one as they still have quite a few years left on a their lease. To make the Sharks move, the municipality would have to fork out roughly R500 mil to make up in loss of revenue gained from the suites.
Unfortunately, Mike Sutcliffe and the rest of the clowns at the Durban Municipality have splurged on such trivial things as changing all the street names and as such are woefully short of that amount of cash.
Besides that, the MM stadium will be super shite to actually watch rugby at because of the distance between the seats and the playing surface.
In short, the Sharks are going nowhere.
8 Feb 2010, 11:26 am
@XhosaKid:
Exactly, and the fans love it !!..Higbury a great but distant memory !!
8 Feb 2010, 11:26 am
@fuzzy:
Nope – the ground the stadium is built on was bought by Western Province Rugby and Football Union in 1888 already…and under South African law in terms of inaedificatio any buildings erected on land becomes the property of the person owning the land.
The stadium is definitely owned by WPRFU.
8 Feb 2010, 11:26 am
228/9 steyn 6
8 Feb 2010, 11:27 am
@justrugby: They charge for everything there, R80 for a trip over the arch, R70 for a guided tour through the stadium and R20 to go and stand on the pitch….
Dont even wanna know what a wc ticket will cost. I’ll have to start saving now if I want to see a game there.
8 Feb 2010, 11:28 am
@Dawn: sentiments, Dawn, sentiments…
Pissant @64, selling Newlans will enable WPRFU, to have enough cash to buy a considerable stake of the Greenpoint Stadium if not an outright majority shareholding, and in time they can own the stadium.
8 Feb 2010, 11:29 am
@grant10:
Watching the game with you is hysterical!
Picture this. Schalk goes off after 20 mins in the first half.
Halfway through the second half, Grant turns to everyone and says “Where’s Schalk!”
Missed everything!
8 Feb 2010, 11:31 am
@Dawn: LOL
I only watch the scrums!
8 Feb 2010, 11:31 am
@XhosaKid:
Like I said, if buying or building a ‘new’ Newlands is what it comes down to, and it makes financial sense to do it, then go for it…
8 Feb 2010, 11:31 am
@John Galt: Oh well, maybe I’ll just have to go and watch a psl game to see what it looks like there.
Yeah they have been going bos on the name changes thing, typical lack of planning and foresight…so the new stadium will be the official new white elephant of South Africa.
Sad actualy, I must say though, the Shark tank does give a great view of the game, and you are right on the field there.
8 Feb 2010, 11:32 am
@Dawn:
Blame it on the sun and not the Windhoeks !!
8 Feb 2010, 11:32 am
@XhosaKid:
Aaagh I’m a sentimental old sap.
Valentine’s Day bunny.
8 Feb 2010, 11:33 am
India is trying to force a “follow on” to spin us out when we bat last!
8 Feb 2010, 11:33 am
Emirates – the boxes alone create more revenue than all the seats revenues combined, which in turn is more than Highbury ever generated. Sport needs Corporate money to sustain and grow, whether you like that or not.
Green Point is the logical next step for Province, whether they did a venue share with the Soccer teams is the pertinent question. As to ownership – the Government doesn’t want an asset like this – hence selling it to WPRFU/Soccer bodies over time makes perfect sense! Leasing company would love to have WP there for all the right reasons!
Newlands – sure it’s been the home of Province rugby since time began, our hearts say stay. But our heads say move! Our kids will only ever love Green Point and that as they say is that, times they are a changing and whilst Newlands backed to capacity is a sight to behold – even Loftus makes it look a little old school! Westpac, Aussie Stadium, Emirates, etc… these are quality stadiums, Green Point is where it’s at – cut the strings of sentimentality and get moving!
8 Feb 2010, 11:34 am
@John Galt: BTW, seems you’ve been privy to some serious inside info, I’m guessing you should do the article on the Durban stadium’s why’s and why not’s.
Any info on why rumours has been doing the rounds of unhappieness at the Sharks?…LOL
8 Feb 2010, 11:37 am
233 all out – steyn 7
8 Feb 2010, 11:38 am
233/10
8 Feb 2010, 11:39 am
@justrugby:
Yip, it’s Dale Steyn’s best-ever performance – 7/51.
8 Feb 2010, 11:39 am
@FireStraeuli:
Look, all is not lost i dont think, the stadium is beautiful and there will still be plenty of use for it as it is in one of SAs major cities(think also of non sport activities eg concerts etc.)
Also, apparently Durban wants to eventually host bigger athletic comps eg commonwealth games etc and it certainly has the fascilities to do so now.
The problem is how its going to be funded between these events as the maintanence on such a stadium must be huge, let alone servicing the finance.
8 Feb 2010, 11:46 am
@John Galt: If I’m not mistaken Durban has put in a bid to host the olympics, not sure which one and what’s happening with it.
Just wished the stadium would have made a good rugby venue, but if the seats are too far from the action, no thank you.
8 Feb 2010, 11:49 am
@Tacitus: Very well put Tacitus. There is a long and checkered list of cities and countries regretting all the expenditure down the line. They should have upgraded Newlands instead.
A note about Loftus: A good mate of mine who’s an ex bok and WP stalwart once remarked to me when I spoke of the old “The springboks have never won at Carisbrook” voodoo, that he couldn’t understand what the fuss was about. The town is basically a university town, with a bunch of students. “if you want an intimidating stadium, go and play at Loftus” he told me,…”they are drinking brandy and cokes and hurling abuse at the bus…..and that’s just the women….”
He he he made me laugh. I agree that the unions must own the stadium and “make it their own”. Bulls statues and all……
8 Feb 2010, 11:49 am
@Staal: LOL!!! Good decision by Smith, another hour of play and our bowlers can then go and relax and be fit again tomorrow, in fact ,in total they have only bowled just over 60 odd overs, so they are still in good shape.
8 Feb 2010, 11:51 am
@stormersboy: HAHAHAHAHA, yeah, ‘and that’s just the woman’….give them anada chance
8 Feb 2010, 12:01 pm
I posted this earlier, but its also relevant here.
I only managed to see the second half on TV. The stadium looked impressive, giving a feeling light and air. Regarding the atmosphere, it just did not come across on TV, I thought it was very subdued and was very surprised to read that the atmosphere was so great. A 40 000 crowd at Newlands comes across as having much more atmosphere – to this tv viewer at least.
As many of you were at the game, what are your feelings on the vibe of a 40 000 crowd here as opposed to the same crowd at Newlands.
8 Feb 2010, 12:07 pm
@SuperStirrer:
Put it this way.
There was a lack of “atmosfeer”.
8 Feb 2010, 12:18 pm
@SuperStirrer: It was a very good atmosphere considering it was a meaningless warm-up game.
8 Feb 2010, 12:30 pm
I’m with Pissant on this… WP/Stormers should stay at Newlands.
And I don’t think it has anything to do with sentiment or emotions. So everyone had a great experience on Saturday… great stuff. But that does not mean all of a sudden that Newlands is not a great experience… Who cares if football teams in Europe want to go to new grounds… that doesn’t mean WPRFU must follow suit.
There is a lot to be said for tradition in rugby that makes perfect business sense. For example, Frans Ludeke said post the CC semi that the noise and crowd and vibe at Newlands really got to him and the Bulls and that he’d never experienced anything like it before. Having that sort of support counts for a lot and lifts the team to better performances… which is better for business.
Just because something is modern and new doesn’t necessarily make it better for business.
Having said that… the Grand stand is around 50 years old and in need of renovation/rebuilding… WP are bound to use Cape Town Stadium when that happens…
To those who say to stay is emotional and sentimental … I put it to you that your responses are emotional and sentimental based on a wonderful afternoon’s entertainment…
If you really look at it in cold hard business terms… this is what you get…
A lot of pressure is being put on the Union to move because without WP rugby that CT Stadium is unlikely to be a financial success. It makes perfect business sense to dismiss all approaches outright… wait four or five years till Morne’s group are desperate and then negotiate a very good deal from a position of strength… Then WP can dictate the terms of any move and THAT is what makes business sense… possibly relieving SAIL of the lease in the process…
8 Feb 2010, 12:31 pm
@Simon:
Are you arguing with me on purpose aspris.
8 Feb 2010, 12:32 pm
@Nick Armstrong: Aha, simon’s *** lover makes an appearance again.
8 Feb 2010, 13:00 pm
I’ve been going to Newlands from when I was a kid. I try to watch as many S14 and Currie Cup games as I can manage. I love Newlands, but in the long run I can’t help but feel that the move to the CT stadium is almost inevitable.
Neewlands is old and run down and there is no easy way of fixing it.
Maybe the Stormers should move to CT stadium and then WP can stay at Newlands, but then again having two stadia is probably not financially viable.
8 Feb 2010, 13:14 pm
Question. How many deaththreats has Simon Borchardt received since posting this article?
Wish the okes at the Golden Lions would think in the same direction! People do not like going to Ellis Park. Even some okes I know from Krugersdorp are sceptical these days. And they are what you might refer to as “rof”.
8 Feb 2010, 13:54 pm
@Kiddo: Lions should move to Soccer City.
8 Feb 2010, 13:59 pm
@Kiddo: Ask the Fifa delegation, wearing bullet proof vests and everything when visiting Jo’burg…even the Bok-N(aa)i-Pan’ers will think twice before going to Coke park.
8 Feb 2010, 14:02 pm
From IOL
Beautiful stadium … pity about the traffic
By Clayton Barnes
Stadium operator Sail/Stade de France and the City of Cape Town say they will go back to the drawing board to devise a comprehensive traffic management plan for the third World Cup test event next month.
This comes after traffic ground to a halt around the Cape Town Stadium precinct on Saturday, causing thousands of spectators to miss the curtain-raiser match between the SA Legends and the International 10s.
The match was followed by the main game between the Vodacom Stormers and Boland.
Motorists with tickets for VIP parking waited up to an hour to get into the main parkade because sniffer dogs checked every vehicle entering the stadium precinct for explosives and narcotics.
“This is a joke,” said one spectator. “It takes each car 50 minutes to get in and we are only 40 000 spectators. What about 68 000 for the World Cup?”
Sail/Stade de France executive director Morne du Plessis said a comprehensive traffic management plan would be crucial for the next test event, a religious gathering of about 60 000 people on March 22.
“Traffic was the biggest challenge,” he said. “The European seating arrangement (a particular method of seat numbering) is also a bit complicated, but people will get used to it.”
Four people were arrested for being drunk during Saturday’s events.
Three City of Cape Town units were involved in the policing operation.
The metro police arrested one person for driving under the influence of alcohol and issued 20 traffic fines amounting to R5 300.
A 27-year-old man was also fined R200 in terms of a city by-law for allegedly setting off a firecracker in the stadium after the match.
The city’s traffic services arrested one person for reckless and negligent driving and issued 97 traffic and parking fines.
The city’s law enforcement unit issued 63 fines totalling R46 750 for parking offences and illegal trading.
It also confiscated goods worth R50 000 from illegal traders.
Two warnings were issued for contravening city by-laws.
Stadium paramedics were also kept busy.
A man in his mid-60s collapsed and died after suffering complete cardiac arrest soon after entering the stadium, while another spectator was treated for chest pains at the stadium medical centre.
Dr Wayne Smith, head of the stadium’s 2010 medical emergency team, said several attempts to resuscitate the man at the stadium failed.
He was then taken to the nearby Somerset Hospital, where he was declared dead.
8 Feb 2010, 14:43 pm
i was one of the traditionalists, but after seeing the game at the stadium i think they should move.
8 Feb 2010, 15:02 pm
If a decision is made to stick with Newlands a lot of money needs to be spent on maintenance and repairs. As well as upgrading facilities.. (Ask any of the ladies who have to queue for 20 minutes to go to the loo)
The actual structure of the Railway Stand looks decidedly dicey these days with some nasty looking cracks in the concrete showing… Sooner or later the stands will become a danger.
Perhaps a sharing of games could be done with the big matches and tests going to Green Point.. The Railway Stand could then be re-developed in to a smaller stand with offices to help offset costs and the Stadium used for CC and Vodacom Cup type games.. Even bring back a bit of Club Rugby again to Newlands…
8 Feb 2010, 17:10 pm
Newlands is the home , soul of rugby , maybe share the two venues !
8 Feb 2010, 17:43 pm
As much as I love Newlands, the ridiculous comments comparing access at Cape Town stadium to Newlands is laughable.
There is no comparison. By the WC and beyond, new IRT stations and buses, will move spectators easily. The entire area is ideal for large events, close to hotels, restaurants etc.
Try getting a drink at half time at Newlands during the Tri-Nations….
For all the sentiment of Newlands, the first rugby match in RSA was played in Green Point, the oldest rugby club in RSA is adjacent to the stadium.
Do you guys really think the city is going to approve any major upgrades to a residential stadium stuck in the 60′s?
8 Feb 2010, 17:47 pm
SAIL own 25% of the WP Rugby, so surely they have an interest in the success of the union and rugby in the province.
Stade de France hosted numerous world cup matches at the Stade de France in Paris, and certainly bring some more experience to the table.
8 Feb 2010, 17:53 pm
I say move. Just wait till I get a chance to go to Newlands.
Call the new stadium Newlands Cape Town Stadium and sell the old one.
Arsenal moved to the Emirates from Highbury and actually developed the old stadium into flats.
You can buy a flat which was actually part of the old stadium.
That way the heritage is kept and there’s money to made.
That real estate is worth enough to pay off our debts and to sign Dan Carter on a life long contract!
8 Feb 2010, 17:54 pm
Huge difference between the new stadia in Cape Town and Durban.
Durban has an athletics track, while CT stadium is designed for rugby with the larger field, and curved bowl which is ideal for viewing rugby.
8 Feb 2010, 18:44 pm
Get over it Kaapies and move to Greenpoint. Bye bye Newlands.
8 Feb 2010, 18:58 pm
Newlands is old, she is reaching the end of her life, usually 50 years for a stadium, and it will only be a matter of time before something will need to be torn down and rebuilt … WP cannot afford that.
Let’s face it folks pretty soon the top test matches between the All Blacks and the Convicts will only be played at the biggest stadiums, namely Loftus and the Coke Tin because of higher capacity, more VIP suites, the altitude advantage and more knowledgeable and intimidating rugby fans.
The Shark tank and Newlands will host the year end tours and the Argies 4N matches. So please stay at the tank and Newlands, I do not mind at all.
8 Feb 2010, 20:19 pm
I was left cold by the green point stadium, you are miles from the action, also how often is newlands sold out, maybe in a “good ” season but otherwise ?
rather upgrade newlands and use green point while that happens.
8 Feb 2010, 20:19 pm
If it will mean that Ready D and bands like the Klopse will feature more strongly then Im for this.
Im with Simon on this.
Im not sure why Im discussing it here with you guys – Ill talk to Tobie Titus and the boyz directly.
Uitgesawt.
8 Feb 2010, 20:30 pm
ALso i Hope the sharks never leave Kings park for that white elephant, moses mabhida, both the soccer and rugby stadiums in dbn were built at more or less the same time, one ” had ” to be demolished the other is maybe the best place to watch rugby, the pitch of the stands gives such a unique view, you can see the play happening and afterward the vibe is amazing how much money could be saved by just upgrading kings park, also these stadia are new lets see how good they look in 10 years time
8 Feb 2010, 21:18 pm
I would leave WP and the Stompies at Newlands with some serious modernization.
I would, however, have the Boks play their Cape Town games at the Green Point Stadium.
I would also do the same with Durban.
The only real emotional tie that people have to these stadia is based upon their respective provincial histories.
Apart from Ellis Park, I would say that the Boks have no stadium to which they belong. Besides, Ellis (Coke) Park doesn’t have a provincial team that play there.
8 Feb 2010, 21:25 pm
Won’t work. Cape Town Stadium doesn’t have standing room. Nowhere for the papsak dronkies to vloek, fight and pass out.
8 Feb 2010, 21:44 pm
there is no comparison… Newlands is the worst stadium in the country, its very unprofessional,dirty and the springboks hate the ground… Ive lived in Cape Town all my life and it seems the stormers, province and the Springboks play better away than they do at home… a percentage of cape town cannot let go of the past and move forward and support the all blacks which is a very sad and cowardly thing to do… its time to have a new beginning but not let go of the old tradition but start an Era of stormers/province/springbok rugby that matches the COLLASEUM thats been born in the cape!!! Its Beauty, strength and Power and grace will attract the best players in the world to want to come and train and live here….
If we do not let go of Newlands we will be the laughing stock of the country and the world for not takin the correct decision while a crappy team like Santos and Ajax have a Magnificent stadium!!! The nickname “THE COLLASEUM” will catch on and many blood will be spilt on this holy ground!!
Old newlands ill say goodbye but not completely, half the stadium that faces the mountain should be demolised and be turned into an events/concert/ oprah house and Cape Town will be voted the most beautifal City in world…!!! CAPE TOWN
8 Feb 2010, 21:57 pm
…it would seem obvious really.
internationals at greenpoint, wp/stormers at newlands.
don’t want to diss newlands too much. I watched my first test match there back in ’86 against the Cavaliers. Stood right in front of where Carel Du Plessis dotted down.Was pissing with rain as usual.
8 Feb 2010, 22:04 pm
On the positive side of the balance sheet; Newlands has tradition, position, grace, atmosphere, respect, culture and Forries as assets to be taken seriously. On the other side of the sheet, Newlands is in disrepair, out of date, embarassing ablutions(I’d rather have a No 2 in the bush), poor access, Morne DuPlessis and Ohllsons Brewery sometimes smells worse than my vilest ****. Against all this traditionalist’s best expectations, I’ll have to back WP to move to Green Point sometime soon. Makes perfect sense whichever way I looked at it on saturday afternoon.
8 Feb 2010, 22:05 pm
@stormedwolf:
Coliseum
8 Feb 2010, 22:05 pm
@Brigadier Van Zyl: if it wasn’t pissing with rain Brig, it wouldn’t be Newlands. Don’t be a wet.
8 Feb 2010, 22:08 pm
@katman: they all moved to a room in Braamfontein. Probably not standing much though.
8 Feb 2010, 22:10 pm
@TASSIES:
well, that’s the real issue really.
Is there another rugby stadium in the world that carries Newlands’ history and tradition.
that’s about all it’s got going for it really.
8 Feb 2010, 22:13 pm
Sorry COLISEUM!!!
but either way, I like the way it sounds of blood being spilt by schalk decapitaiting his prey…
O another idea would be to get UCT involved in Newlands… Really annoying watching such talented ikeys players having to play against a brick wall (wind) for 40 minutes every match and with small crowds!! could be a good idea considering American Universities host 40-80 000 students and basketball/american football… would only increase the professionalism, standards and tradition of club rugby!!
8 Feb 2010, 22:15 pm
@Brigadier Van Zyl: well it does have Forries Brig. Unique I’d say. Maybe they should just keep Newlands for that asset alone. Personally drank many girls pretty there. Great talent.
8 Feb 2010, 22:17 pm
@stormedwolf: bad idea. Nothing like playing beneath Jammie Steps, in a howling north wester.
8 Feb 2010, 22:22 pm
TASSIES: from experiance i beg to differ but I wont lie I have enjoyed many a fines evening in the changin rooms and it is good messy fun… A U a U a UCT
8 Feb 2010, 22:23 pm
mmmmmmm, this would be very sad indeed. Spent many Saturdays in the terraces below the main stand. And the anouncer has been around for ever……..but, if it’s time to go then so be it. As long as the Stormers don’t treat it as an away game
8 Feb 2010, 22:25 pm
It really is a no-brainer. The new stadium is miles ahead. And the money made by selling off Newlands for residential and commercial development can pay off all debt, including the money they owe the GLRU for Jaque Fourie.
I think the traditionalists who don’t want to budge have heard horror stories about the whores and drugs and ****** of Green Point and are afraid it might rub off on them over the course of an 80 minute game of rugby.
8 Feb 2010, 22:30 pm
Who gives a toss where the 2nd raters move to they could move to robben island or even better into the ocean who would miss them instead of the stormers they could call themselves the floaters as they are better at floating than storming.
8 Feb 2010, 22:33 pm
@TASSIES:
I still remember when everyone used to hang out in the car park of the old Newland’s Sun before hitting their sportsbar witha boerewors roll.
…that was way back when the Pig and Whistle used to rock…
8 Feb 2010, 22:38 pm
@TASSIES:
Nothing like a “carpark” shout when playing on the field closest to the old zoo……..
8 Feb 2010, 22:39 pm
@blueboy:
You for real?
9 Feb 2010, 00:11 am
I havent read all the entries , hence just commenting on the article: Both stadias have their own pro’s and cons.I think for the time being one or two currie cup and maybe a test could be played there and see how it goes.With regards to the atmosphere etc etc in the new stadium: What if our teams play kak and the stadiums cant gather 15k plus? Less income will be made.The result: the “brand new” stadium falling apart like everything else.
9 Feb 2010, 00:17 am
I can assure you, every single seat at Cape Town stadium has better views than Newlands. It was designed so that each seat is within 190 metres, with excellent sightlines for the human eye.
International teams, football and rugby would die for this stadium.
9 Feb 2010, 04:34 am
Is there relaible public transprt to the venue? All of us that train it in from all over and converge on Newlands stadium dont have the advantge of cars. Is there a train station at the venue. No, so therefore all the other arguments dont count in my opinion.
9 Feb 2010, 16:45 pm
here’s a thought… give Newlands a make over…
if you think there is so many problems with the stadium and it is so out of date (fail to see how, grass is grass), just vamp it up. Move to green point in the mean time while Newlands is getting a make over and move back once it has been completed.
9 Feb 2010, 18:38 pm
All train lines lead to Cape Town. So most areas in Cape Town have access to the stadium. A high capacity IRT shuttle system is under construction to move spectators from Cape Town station.
You simply cannot compare access.
e.g. from Athlone, you have to go via Cape Town station, and the same applies to many other routes and suburbs. The station is in the process of a R450 million makeover, with new glass IRT bus stations outside the stadium and at the Civic Centre.
Even without the stations complete and using GA buses instead, the shuttle system was described by many as painless and even flawless.
9 Feb 2010, 19:04 pm
Where is all the idiots that was laughing at the supposed color change for the Bulls?
Now they are panicking, because they might lose their home.
Shame
9 Feb 2010, 21:06 pm
@Karoolander: “Where is all the idiots” indeed?
10 Feb 2010, 00:05 am
that are classic.
10 Feb 2010, 09:53 am
All train lines lead to Cape Town not Green Point. Try walking form CT station to Green Point.
How can an international stadium have no public transport! Yeah buses and taxis but it should be seamless, this is definetly retarded not having a train line. For gods sakes you could have built one, even a tram line.
Sooo stupid it seams some one with political clout wanted there and once agiain the punter is ignored.
No to transfering Newlands until the train line goes all the way.
10 Feb 2010, 18:45 pm
Once again, the IRT stations and new Volvo buses will provide a high capacity shuttle between the new Civic IRT station under construction and the new Stadium IRT station under construction.
Why is this difficult to understand?
The Golden Arrow bus shuttle, a temporary measure was used, to test the route, with the final test event, testing the new buses, and stations.
The train line will not go all the way, it costs too much and the demand from the CBD to the stadium apart from match days does not support the cost.
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