Proteas pulverise India
9 Feb 2010
Dale Steyn claimed 10 wickets in the match as South Africa smashed India by an innings and six runs in Nagpur.
The visitors required eight wickets on the fourth day and although their ground fielding was below-par at times after two full days in the field, for the most part the bowlers remained disciplined.
Steyn will rightfully take the plaudits for his first innings demolition job, but importantly for the South Africans Paul Harris played a holding role on a turning wicket. Harris was attacked by the England batsmen at home and didn’t have the answers, but was allowed to settle by the Indians in this Test, and he restored a degree of confidence after being dropped for The Wanderers encounter last month.
The left-arm spinner still struggled with his length, but went at two an over bowling his leg-stump line from over the wicket and also claimed the wickets of Murali Vijay, Sachin Tendulkar – who scored his 46th Test century – and MS Dhoni.
At 209-6, Zaheer Khan and Harbhajan Singh provided some frustration with their 50-run partnerships with Wriddhiman Saha, but once Khan departed after a Jacques Kallis-bouncer, Steyn wrapped up the tail to end with match figures of 10-108.
This was Dhoni’s first Test loss as captain and while no victory in India should be scoffed at, the South Africans will realise the hosts were missing a number of top batsmen in Yuvraj Singh, VVS Laxman, and Rahul Dravid.
Singh and Dravid are likely to be ruled out for the second Test, but Laxman could return and his presence will provide the Indian middle order with greater experience and backbone as South Africa search for the series win that will see them go top of the ICC world rankings.
South Africa (1st innings) – 558-6 declared
Hashim Amla 253, Jacques Kallis 173, AB de Villiers 53, Zaheer Khan 3-96.
India (1st innings) – 233
Virender Sehwag 109, Subramaniam Badrinath 56, Dale Steyn 7-51
India (2nd innings) – 319
Sachin Tendulkar 100, Dale Steyn 3-57, Paul Harris 3-76
South Africa won by an innings and six runs
Click here for full scorecard.
182 Comments
9 Feb 2010, 07:29 am
Two wickets in the first hour…one more and we’re into the tail.
Go boys, make these flat track bullies jump about.
9 Feb 2010, 07:33 am
and tendulkar dropped off parnell as well i heard!!
9 Feb 2010, 07:37 am
Parnell all over ms donut..
9 Feb 2010, 07:46 am
see what happens when you get rid of the ramp model pansy quota coach, suddenly the boykie’s come out blazing firing on all 12 cylinders.
9 Feb 2010, 07:57 am
Ramp model pansy quota coach
Stop talking out your bum you old goat
9 Feb 2010, 07:58 am
@gunther:
Who does he mean? Ramp model?
9 Feb 2010, 07:59 am
@skopskiet:
Imagine what would happen if we got rid of the other quota’s as well…..Duminy and Prince.
9 Feb 2010, 08:00 am
@Connag:
Duminy has to carry the team kit so he can stay.
9 Feb 2010, 08:00 am
@skopskiet: Next in line is Boucher
9 Feb 2010, 08:03 am
is Boucher back at wicketkeeper?
9 Feb 2010, 08:03 am
Boucher you mean the joint player of the series against England?
You appear to as much about cricket as skopskiet…
9 Feb 2010, 08:23 am
@gunther: 11
No G…i heard he was injured and went off the field…i want to know if he is okay?
I am a huge Boucher fan by the way!
9 Feb 2010, 08:26 am
I was replying to the mighty veruca…
9 Feb 2010, 08:35 am
@gunther: okay…
9 Feb 2010, 08:50 am
@grant10:
Boucher’s back is sore – shouldn’t be anything serious, might just need some rest.
Fortunately we are lucky enough to have AB in the squad as well.
9 Feb 2010, 08:59 am
@skopskiet:
As I said in response to your ‘quota’ comment on the other thread…
Of course, the facts tell you Mickey was appointed by the quota CEO, Gerald Majola, because Smiffy wanted someone he could maniupulate.
But then you’ve never been one to be weighed down by facts, hey Skop?
I suggest you aim your ire in the right direction, Skop. His name is Gerald Majola.
I do agree, though, that Arthur was useless.
9 Feb 2010, 08:59 am
Boucher is back keeping today…
And Harris has bowled 17 overs 1/23. Very economical stuff!
All the while the little master heads for 100 number 45. What a genius he is
9 Feb 2010, 09:01 am
@Joe Maher: Gerald seems like quite a dictator. He’s CEO, now he’s named himself chairman of selectors… What next? Player/Coach? President?
9 Feb 2010, 09:02 am
Harris is bowling a foot outside leg stump and the Indians are just kicking him away it’s quite pointless really..
9 Feb 2010, 09:04 am
@gunther: That’s were the rough is mate. If he hits the correct spot it spits and makes it very difficult to play. As Dhoni found in the first innings
9 Feb 2010, 09:15 am
Parnell need to come to the party, too many wide deliveries.
Why does he come around the wicked? All he is doing is bowling in a straight line with no movement. Had he come over he would have an angle to work with.
9 Feb 2010, 09:18 am
Harris is not an attacking spinner.
What SA needs is an attacking spinner, I know some people love to blow his trumpet but he’s very limited in his repertoire.
Thank goodness for Dale Steyn’s spell yesterday but what’s going to happen when our quicks don’t fire?
I wouldn’t bet my house on Harris picking up a fiver. Having said that, I’m happy for him to hold fort, that’s only because we don’t have any alternatives……..I’d be tempted to give Johan Botha a go, he can spin the ball more than Harris.
9 Feb 2010, 09:20 am
@onerb: I think he tryin to get it to straighten off the pitch but I agree over the wicket is always more dangerous from a leftie
9 Feb 2010, 09:22 am
@Jozi: Botha hardly spins it more really, I mean maybe slightly but it eould be reaaly similar.
They both rely on variation in flight, angle on the crease and changes of pace
9 Feb 2010, 09:28 am
It’s good to see steyn developing reverse swing in his action. He didn’t have it 2 years ago.
Now when his pace fades he will still be able to continue. Not like makhaya that only had one stock ball. Once the pace fades so does his value.
Now if you can swing it both ways and use reverse swing from over 40 onwards, that’s why he is Nr 1 in the world, I would say he will stay there for the next year.
9 Feb 2010, 09:32 am
@onerb: He’s got it all. Very exciting. I can see him, Parnell and Morkel being our pace attack for a long time.
9 Feb 2010, 09:43 am
@WP_: Herra relies on being able to dry up the runs and then sledging the batsmen until they make a mistake.
His skill set as an international spinner is disturbingly limited.
I’m no expert on spin bowling but we urgently need a spinner who can ask a few more questions of top class batsmen and Herra is not that spinner…….like I said, I’m happy for him to hold fort but he doesn’t give the ball a lot of rip.
9 Feb 2010, 09:47 am
@Jozi: Agree with what, but he a fighter, it shows in his batting, and he gets vital wickets but he’s not going to bowl sides out on his own unless it’s a raging turner.
I think people have unrealistic expectaions of Harry as a spinner. He does a good job a reckon and until there is a better man for the job (I’m thinking Imran Tahir) we’ll have to stick with him… and back him,,,
9 Feb 2010, 09:49 am
@WP_:
tiger I know thats where the rough is but the tactic is not working time to change it up….
9 Feb 2010, 09:51 am
When a spinner forces you into a defensive run-restricted frame of mind, you tend to go after the other bowlers instead. You take unnecessary risks against THEIR bowling and go out. The economical spinner has succeeded for his team in building up the frustration among the opposing batsmen. It’s all part of a subtle test cricketing mind-game where the spinner is the puppeteer and the batsmen are the puppets.
Roughnecks who think that biff-bash 20/20 or ODIs are still “real cricket” instead of them being just a gaudy pyjama party with stumps will never begin to understand any of the subtleties and nuances of the five-day game.
9 Feb 2010, 09:52 am
@WP_: Botha chucks.
9 Feb 2010, 09:54 am
@TheTackler: As you’ve said before…
So does Shaun Tait by the way
9 Feb 2010, 09:55 am
@gunther: Yeah, but he;s tying them down…
Dunno
9 Feb 2010, 09:55 am
@WP_: Yeah but bowling a foot and half outside leg stump is not going to help our course we need him to be more attacking I reckon. Flight the ball more, try and out-think the Indian duo of Dhoni and Tendulkar.
Those two are too experienced to be lulled into getting themselves out by sweeping across the line to a ball that’s pitching outside leg especially given the match situation.
9 Feb 2010, 09:57 am
even a broken watch is right twice a day…. harro takes a wicket and then seems to injure himself during the celebrations…. I know you don’t take a wcket very often but seriously?
9 Feb 2010, 09:57 am
@gunther: What do you suggest bowling around… But them he doesnt really get enough turn. And if there’s rough then use it.
Hold that…
Harris to Tendulkar OUT!
BOWLED HIM
9 Feb 2010, 09:59 am
@Jozi: Well it just did…
9 Feb 2010, 09:59 am
@TheTackler: Point taken tickles but you can’t be bowling 6/6 deliveries there. The best spinners know how to get the perfect balance between attack and defence…..Herra has now gone into ultra defensive mode.
The wee maestro has now gone to his 45th test hunderd….what a player.
9 Feb 2010, 10:00 am
@gunther: give him credit
9 Feb 2010, 10:00 am
Well miracles do happen now and again… So Harris got lucky?? Lol
9 Feb 2010, 10:02 am
Eish too slow on the keyboard today….well done Herra but that tactic is not going to guarantee success every time.
Now Steyn needs to be brought back to mop up the tail and get his 10 wickets in the match.
9 Feb 2010, 10:08 am
@wpw: No he didnt
9 Feb 2010, 10:10 am
Jozi, as you did mention. You clearly are not an expert on spin bowling
The art of spin bowling is not only to turn the ball by yards (eg. Kumble doesn’t do that either), it’s also the subtle variations in pace and bounce. That is where Harris’s strengths are.
You said something about fivers. Harro has taken fivers against 3 top countries already and is learning all the time, while we all need to accept the truth about Botha…. He’s a chucker.
42.5 9 127 6 v Australia 19 Mar 2009
36.0 13 73 5 v Pakistan 1 Oct 2007
37.0 10 123 5 v England 16 Dec 2009 15.4 5 35 4 v West Indies 26 Dec 2007 20.2 6 46 4 v Pakistan 11 Jan 2007 37.0 3 129 4 v India 2 Jan 2007
9 Feb 2010, 10:12 am
You make your own luck no?
9 Feb 2010, 10:18 am
Damn Harry just got Saha out caught at silly point but NOT given
9 Feb 2010, 10:18 am
Well, Harris bagged TWO top order stumps, including clean bowling Tendulkar (arguably the best batsman in the world).
Not too shabby, I’d say.
And look at the economy! Under 2 an over with both batsmen having their eye well and truly in!
9 Feb 2010, 10:20 am
@TheTackler: Is he your brother or something?
You normally hate South Africans…
9 Feb 2010, 10:23 am
@boerinbeton: And you are?
Yes spin bowling is about variations in this that and the other…..Given Pakistan and West Indies schizophrenic nature, I’m not sure how much one can read into that……
The other two occasions he took fivers it was in particularly high scoring affairs.
I agree with you that Kumble didn’t spin it much neither does Vetorri but they achieve better results.
I’m not knocking Herra, just saying he’s too limited and he’s not the answer to our spin bowling debacle…..not in the long term anyway.
9 Feb 2010, 10:24 am
No one is suggesting that Harro is a top spinner like Warne or Murali, but we should give the boy a break.
After 28 Matches:
Harris has 85 wickets at 33; Vettori had 91 wickets at 34
Considering he is back up to Steyn and Morkel. I think it’s worthwhile investing in him for some more years.
The same is true for Prince. All these arguments about him not being an opener makes little sense considering that G.Kirsten, H. Gibbs, AB de Villiers and N. Mckenzie has opened plenty for SA and none of them started of as openers.
All the talk about Duminy is even worse. There is too much talent. He will return to form. (I would invest more time in his spinning ability as well)
We’re looking good today. If any of those last wicket stands againat England failed, we’d have been close to top of the world by now.
That is exactly where we are. Close….. But not clear leaders yet.
9 Feb 2010, 10:26 am
@WP_: 44 Yes you do.
9 Feb 2010, 10:30 am
@Jozi: I think Tickles is related to Harris or something… It seems he’s the only Saffa he likes
9 Feb 2010, 10:34 am
@WP_: Hehehehe…..I think tickles has developed a school boy crush on Herra, he’s got a preference for men with maw-hawk hairstyles with blonde highlights
9 Feb 2010, 10:34 am
Harris gets another with his leg stump line!
MS Dhoni c de Villiers b Harris 25
210/6
9 Feb 2010, 10:35 am
@Jozi: Oh is that waht is it! haha
Ag, sweet man
9 Feb 2010, 10:35 am
Well, he bagged Dhoni — second innings in a row. Three wickets so far and all top-order batsmen. (I detest a good player being bagged by any number of dumbclucks who simply don’t know a thing about test cricket and even less about the subtle art of the spinner. The pyjama brigade, usually. Tip-and-runners.)
9 Feb 2010, 10:36 am
I’m in danger of being fed a big slice of humble pie…..good on ya Harris.
Steyn needs to come back into the attack now. He won’t get too many opportunities of a 10′fer in India.
9 Feb 2010, 10:39 am
@TheTackler: No Tickles tell us the truth man…….You’re like Tacitus and his obsession with Spies. It goes deeper (deeper being the operative word) than just playing ability.
9 Feb 2010, 10:40 am
@TheTackler: I agree with you on the front that Harris is underrrated.
I’d just like to see the sypathy towards saffas on other front
9 Feb 2010, 10:42 am
@Jozi: haha, he wont reveal he secret crush… haha…
@TheTackler: Come Tickles you like Harry… a lot.. shall we say
9 Feb 2010, 10:47 am
He’s a very good test spinner. World-class.
9 Feb 2010, 10:51 am
@WP_: I’m happy to salute talent. I’m just not into handing out sympathy to anyone, South African or otherwise. Sympathy is for losers.
9 Feb 2010, 11:06 am
@TheTackler: so what do you say about steyn now then you boring old ****?
gaaning aan about harris but steyn has taken 8 wickets..in one day!
you know he made you his bunny tickles
9 Feb 2010, 11:07 am
Do you think Boucher is healthy? I assume we are making use of a back stop cause he is not moving freely?
Maybe it’s time for someone like Kuhn to start joining the tours? Boucher is still world class, but he needs a lighter load. I suggest he should stop playing 20-20 (though that’s where the money is and he might not like that personally) and they should start to rotate him out of some of the one dayers.
Any thoughts?
9 Feb 2010, 11:16 am
@boerinbeton: I’ve also been calling for Kuhn but I nearly lost a limb such was the attack on here from Boucher’s supporters.
Boucher has been a loyal and good servant for us but we need to have a good succession plan in place and Kuhn is my man…..good batsman and good with the gloves…..get him in there a.s.a.p.
9 Feb 2010, 11:22 am
@boerinbeton: soos oom paul op ou kerkplein?
9 Feb 2010, 11:39 am
Op daai einste plein
9 Feb 2010, 11:50 am
I’m a huge Boucher fan too and I understand Indian pitches are difficult to keep on, but surely we should get a bit worried in needing a back stop and conceding 29 byes in a test.
I’m not calling for his head, just suggesting that we at least start looking at the guy next in line.
9 Feb 2010, 11:50 am
Parnell picks up his second wicket…..Harbhajan LBW
9 Feb 2010, 12:07 pm
well the indians are obviously hoping to prevent a loss by a full innings.
i am hoping we wrap them up and do so again in the next game.
what then of our supposed “lucky packet rise to no.1 in the world”?
will biff be replaced as captain?
9 Feb 2010, 12:08 pm
@rangerman: Steyn bowled extraordinarily well in this test. 7 wickets in an innings is very special — not a world record or even a SA record, but a very good show all the same.
The pyjama brigade have no problem with Steyn though. His flash-harry exhibitionism antics please them immensely, just as they lapped up that previous clown — Andre Nel — who had just as much showmanship but only a fraction of Steyn’s skills. So Steyn does not lack for admirers — and no seam bowler generally does. Seam bowling is, after all, by far the simplest of all the bowling styles to execute.
The problem I have is when the pyjama brigade start opining on spin-bowling and it soon becomes clear that they’ve never tried it nor do they understand any of its nuances. To these yahoos, a “good” spinner is one who gets the ball to jump almost a 90 degrees right-angle to the line of delivery once it touches the pitch and instantly head off in the direction of backward point or a short fine leg!
It’s tripe, of course. It needs deflect only a centimentre or so from the delivery path. What looked like a delivery going to the sweet spot of the bat then goes to a thickish edge or, even a snicked thin edge. The batsman then gets the yips and no longer trusts his shot selection. He becomes tentative at first, then he stops moving his feet to reduce one the variables. Then he gets frustrated as being doldrummed and becalmed and will try a big hit to break the evil spell woven by the spinner. The reckless shot eventually undoes him, with either with the tormenting spinner doing the bowling himself, or the bowler at the other end. He’s been “head-cased” by the spinner.
Harris is the master of head-casing. Anil Kumble was another such head-caser. So too is Harbhajan.
9 Feb 2010, 12:15 pm
@TheTackler: Can you apply the same reasoning for your love of Harris to other SA sportsmen e.g rugby players etc.
Just a thought…..use it don’t use it.
9 Feb 2010, 12:27 pm
@TheTackler: sounds like you would make a good “spin doctor” tickles.
our prez is in the market for one. maybe you should apply?
9 Feb 2010, 12:49 pm
Well, Khan went after Harris and smacked a six. And, just when he thought he’d broken the spell, he tried to tonk Kallis in the very next over to test his broken-spell theory. And promptly lost his wicket. Poisoned by Harris, throat slit by Kallis — they work in tandem.
9 Feb 2010, 12:52 pm
@TheTackler: My belief is that you were a spinner at school and possibly at club level. Am I right?
9 Feb 2010, 12:52 pm
1 wicket left and 7 overs remaining!
9 Feb 2010, 12:57 pm
nice, i was just in time for the final wicket….go Dale
9 Feb 2010, 12:59 pm
Surely we will ask for the extra half hour?
9 Feb 2010, 13:02 pm
Brilliant, absolutely brilliant!
Steyn gets his 10 wickets in the match, SA win by an innings and 6 runs!
India have only ever lost three times by an innings at home in India – and all three times against South Africa!
This was a brilliant, classy, masterful performance by SA!
9 Feb 2010, 13:08 pm
Fok ons hulle op ONE TIME!
Ten minste het India dit reggekry om in die 2de innings meer lopies te kry as Amla….maar Amla het nie tweede keer gekolf nie, so wie weet…
9 Feb 2010, 13:17 pm
Wow what a resounding victory.
In view of the happenings in the lead up to this test, I was pessimistic about our chances but well done to the Proteas.
@WP Till I Die: Beating India in India is a fine achievement indeed.
9 Feb 2010, 13:17 pm
And some were calling Amla a quota a few years ago…and Steyn toothless more recently…
9 Feb 2010, 13:24 pm
YESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS
Well done the boys….And Harris back in the groove….
Magic performance….take a bow Corrie Van zyl….could nt of been easy…
9 Feb 2010, 14:30 pm
@grant10:
Take a bow Graeme Smith, Amla, Kallis, Steyn…
9 Feb 2010, 14:42 pm
@Rebels_Shark: 83
Yeah, great performance…very proud….
9 Feb 2010, 14:45 pm
@Rebels_Shark: 83 – Agree 100%
Take a bow, Graeme Smith. Declared at the right time gave his team plenty time to bowl them out twice now they get a rest day too.
Take a huge bow Amla, Steyn and Kallis. All were superb especially Amla and Steyn. Thought they should have shared the MOM. Two brilliant, brilliant performance from them both.
9 Feb 2010, 14:51 pm
@TheTackler: He’s a very good test spinner. World-class.
Could not agree more with that and I don’t very often agree with you !@!
9 Feb 2010, 14:51 pm
@Rebels_Shark: And Harris too.
9 Feb 2010, 14:53 pm
How often would a bowler take 10 for a match and not be Man of ??
9 Feb 2010, 14:58 pm
Superb Proteas. You did us proud. Well done.
Now for Eden Gardens. Do it in Eden manne and we’ll love it even more.
Kallis maybe can give us a 199 in Kolkata (Calcutta);-)
Ashwell must make some runs…and I don’t mean curry diarrhoea either.
9 Feb 2010, 15:01 pm
@Eight Ace:
Depends…in general people tend to equate contributions from players by saying a wicket equals 20 runs and a catch 10…
…which means Steyn’s 10-for is the equivalent of a 200…
9 Feb 2010, 15:02 pm
@Eight Ace:
If 5 wickets is equivalent a batting century
Then 10 wickets is equivalent to a double ton…
but hey…Hashim made 253 Not out.
Hashim a worthy MOM.
9 Feb 2010, 15:04 pm
Both Hash and Steyn deserved the MOM but Hash’s huge innings set us up to put the pressure on. A fair call, I think.
9 Feb 2010, 15:05 pm
Nice for Hashim to get MOM in India. Even Ravi Shastri dug it. Had a nice cool touch. I’m sure the SA Indian community are stoked.
9 Feb 2010, 15:09 pm
@WP Till I Die: I concur with that, but it’s just that to do it in both innings of a match is inspiring – but then again if you are only given one crack at it, the way Hashim was -well, you may be right
9 Feb 2010, 15:10 pm
@Jinx: Howzit Jinx, Yes think the Indian community in SA will feel awesome about Amla.
Just thought that Steyn and Amla should have shared the mom. Both were outstanding. Fanie also said after both should have shared it. Cause what both done for that game was world class.
9 Feb 2010, 15:14 pm
@Puma:
Nah…Hashim pipped Dale by a whisker. My 5 cents.
9 Feb 2010, 15:15 pm
@Jinx: Hi Jinx,
I think you are assuming that all pitches around the world are the same by applying such a basic “20 runs = 1 wicket” theory. Test archives will reflect that the figure may in fact vary between 15 and 25 for a given test match.
9 Feb 2010, 15:17 pm
@Eight Ace:
Sure. Rough ball park figure.
9 Feb 2010, 15:17 pm
well done hash and the proteas!
biff, you just showed all the naysayers where to shove it and your team rallied around you and made us all proud.
what a captain, what a team!
p.s. so much for a lucky packet rise to the top eh?
9 Feb 2010, 15:19 pm
@rangerman:
Lucky packet??? Now where have I heard that term before. (Scratching my head)
9 Feb 2010, 15:20 pm
@Jinx:
take a guess…..
9 Feb 2010, 15:22 pm
@rangerman:
Erm…erm…ah…Fourie Du Preez perhaps? Or is it…er…49-0 perhaps?
9 Feb 2010, 15:23 pm
@Jinx: 96 – Jinx Amla was superb. No problems with him getting mom. A Durbs boy and all
They both were outstanding. Pleased we have them in our team.
Now need to get em in the next test and reclaim our number one spot. Hoping.
9 Feb 2010, 15:25 pm
@Jinx: something about a world cup maybe?
some people just cant believe their eyes when south african teams do well.
they should manage their expectations better.
9 Feb 2010, 15:25 pm
@Puma:
I’m sure he wants to do it all over at Eden Gardens. Good man.
9 Feb 2010, 15:27 pm
@rangerman:
God bless him.
9 Feb 2010, 15:28 pm
@Jinx: There was probably only a whisker in it !!
I remember “Lucky Packets” – never actually realised I had been exposed to such a “game of chance” at such a young age !!
9 Feb 2010, 15:30 pm
@Eight Ace:
9 Feb 2010, 15:32 pm
Must go…take it easy all…
9 Feb 2010, 15:38 pm
@Eight Ace:
Using that same logic, we have contributions in this test as follows:
1. HM Amla 253
2. JH Kallis 203
3. DW Steyn 200
4. PL Harris 90
5. MV Boucher 69
6. AB de Villiers 63
7. WD Parnell 60
8. M Morkel 50
9. JP Duminy 19
10. GC Smith 16
11. AG Prince 10
9 Feb 2010, 15:42 pm
@Jinx: 105 – Hope so Jinx.
109 – Cheers Jinx.
9 Feb 2010, 20:33 pm
“Harris was attacked by the England batsmen at home and didn’t have the answers…”
Here’s another idiot damning Harris with faint praise and omitting what won’t suit a weak argument.
The real facts? In the second test against England, Harris got the only fifer AND he returned the most economical bowling figures of all the Protea bowlers. So much for being “attacked” by the England batsmen!
The only thing attacking Harris are spin-ignorant critics, one of whom is actually paid for writing his tripe on this site.
9 Feb 2010, 23:02 pm
Hey, well done boys. Great stuff!
10 Feb 2010, 07:26 am
Tackler
That was one test match where he did well. What about the other three??
Your defense of Harris is admirable but we all know he will never ever be a world class spinner…
10 Feb 2010, 09:45 am
Getting a fifer is like scoring a century. You don’t score it in every test. But in the first test Harris was by far the most economical bowler but he was underbowled by Smith. In the second test he got a fifer. He was mysteriously dropped for the third. So, now he’s back in. He is given what all spinners need: a good, long spell with the ball. And he bottles up the Indian top order big hitters, frustrating them into rashness. Then he claims three wickets, including the majestic in-form Tendulkar and skipper Dhoni (twice).
That’s world-class bowling, for sure. But you’d need to know a bit about real cricket to appreciate that. Pyjama fans are just too stupid to get it. They’re too ignorant to realise it.
10 Feb 2010, 14:37 pm
Tackler’s love affair with Harris continues…
10 Feb 2010, 17:58 pm
Harris now ranked 9th in the world for test bowlers.
10 Feb 2010, 17:59 pm
Steyn way out in front at no.1 and Morkel at 7.
10 Feb 2010, 18:00 pm
Batsmen
Kallis 4
Smith 5
Amla 10
10 Feb 2010, 18:04 pm
@TheTackler: Tackler, you were a spinner in your youth weren’t you?
10 Feb 2010, 20:21 pm
A great SA and WP slow left arm spinner was Graeme Chevalier. Sadly he only played 1 test vs Bill Lawry’s Oz at Newlands in 1970. SA test isolation killed him in those dark years.
10 Feb 2010, 21:09 pm
Chev was excellent, and so too Denys Hobson. But you’d go far to look past Hugh Tayfield and (especially) Atholl McKinnon. And they all did well when trusted with long spells, not the five or six over short bursts captains routinely give to the quickies.
11 Feb 2010, 00:37 am
Atholl McKinnon died destitute and alone at 51 in 1983. No one knew he was gone. Very sad. You can play for your country etc but there’s no guarantee that people will rally around you in your time of need.
“Toey” Tayfield was before my time but his record is the best of all SA spinners. He would always kiss the badge on his cap before handing it to the umpire at the start of every over. And of course always tapping his right foot toes into the ground before he started his off spinner run up.
Jackie Du Preez, the leggie and Kelly Seymour the right arm orthodox off spinner were bowlers I fondly remember.
11 Feb 2010, 04:55 am
Well done Capt Limelight and the boys. Shove it up those who always whining – on this forum too.
12 Feb 2010, 03:23 am
Harris says the big secret for a bowler against India’s daunting batting line-up is patience.
“They all have big batting egos when it comes to the overseas spin-bowlers. If you can keep them quiet for a while, they will definitely try to take you on,” he said.
“They won’t knock the ball out of the way with their pads for six consecutive overs. They may do it for five overs, but after that they will take the risk. And they all did.”
Harris had an average series against England (rubbish, Altus Momberg!He got the only fifer and never conceded on average more than 4 runs an over) and there was a lot of speculation prior to the first Test that Johan Botha would take his place in the Test team. However, he underlined his value.
But Harris was not out to prove anyone wrong.
“I think I wanted to prove something to myself. As a South African spinner you are always in the spotlight. I took five wickets in an innings in the Centurion Test against England, but people demanded my head two Tests later. I thought it was unfair,” he said.
(There’s the word from the man himself. I concur fully with Harris’s spot-on self-assessment.)
12 Feb 2010, 10:45 am
@TheTackler:
“He got the only fifer and never conceded on average more than 4 runs an over”
Let me direct you to the first innings of the test in Cape Town. Harris bowled 9 overs for 39 runs without taking a wicket. My maths says that’s an ave of 4.33 runs.
Your statement is thus wrong.
12 Feb 2010, 10:47 am
In any case, since when is it OK for a spinner, doing a holding job, to be satisfied if he goes for less than four rpo? Going for less or somewhere around 2 rpo is more like it, I would think.
12 Feb 2010, 11:36 am
He DOES turn in figures of around 2rpo as a rule. Especially if he gets a decently long spell and his skipper doesn’t panic and pull him off too soon. 9 overs in an innings is WAY too short for a spinner. Over 30 is about right. You’ll want to bowl about 15 in just one spell.
12 Feb 2010, 12:14 pm
@TheTackler:
Unfortunately not, Mr Tackler.
I think you will find that he returns figures of around 3rpo as a RULE and that 2rpo is the EXCEPTION in his career so far. In Durban against England for example, he bowled 38 overs and conceded more than 3.8rpo.
His figures against India the other day is what is expected of him more regularly in order for him to keep his place on the long term. And then I’m not refering to the 3 wickets he took but to his rpo.
I get your point on him bowling long spells in order for him to be able to achieve that. But, even when he was allowed to bowl more than 30 overs in an innings, he could turn in an economy rate of around 2rpo on only a few occasions. In Durban against England for example, he bowled 38 overs and conceded more than 3.8rpo.
BTW, on the other thread you said that Stephen Jefferies took ten wickets in an innings in a “test” match. That was for WP against OVS in a CC match.
12 Feb 2010, 12:35 pm
@nama1: Rubbish.
His career econ is 2.73 and he is well below 3 the vast majority of the time
12 Feb 2010, 12:55 pm
Nothing wrong with 2.73 — few bowlers top that.
12 Feb 2010, 12:58 pm
@WP_:
What is rubbish?
If he is well below 3rpo the vast majority of times, it follows that his average will also be well below 3rpo.
I don’t know about you but my definition of “well below 3rpo” would be anything less than 2.5rpo. According to you his career ave is 2.73rpo. That does not fit in with my view of well below 3rpo.
I know you are not one for stats, but I would urge you to look up Harris’ stats innings by innings where you will find that he returns figures of around 3rpo, in other words between 2.8rpo & 3.2rpo the vast majority of time.
12 Feb 2010, 12:59 pm
Not too much wrong with 3.8rpo either. As a “bad day at the office” a 3.8 would be roughly what happens when the handle on the pencil-sharpener starts squeaking. There’s nobody jumping from the 11th floor window.
12 Feb 2010, 13:02 pm
His career avg at 2.7 IS very comfortably below 3rpo. More economical than almost any other bowler in town. And he’s ranked the 9th best test bowler on earth right now. He’s damned good. Admit it.
12 Feb 2010, 13:03 pm
@TheTackler:
I agree that 2.73 is nothing to frown upon.
But when you are being touted as somebody who’s main job in the team is to do a holding job, surely your rpo should be in the region of 2.2rpo.
12 Feb 2010, 13:08 pm
@TheTackler:
I’ve never said that he was not good. I’ve said on the other thread that his performance THIS SEASON, is below par. WP_ took exception to that statement.
12 Feb 2010, 13:10 pm
Dale Steyn the superhero is on 3.54rpo. So Harris’s “holding job” is more than adequate at 2.73 as he’s also regularly claiming vital top-order wickets along the way plus he’s also building frustration in the batsmen which drives them to play fatally-rash shots off his bowling partner at the other end.
It’s a mindgame he plays to perfection.
12 Feb 2010, 13:15 pm
His performance this season? A top-order fifer versus England at Centurion? Three, including Sachin, versus India — all withing the last six innings he’s played? And, throughout the whole season, returning economy unmatched by ANY other Protea bowler?
It’s shaping up as a great season for the spinner, I’d say. One of the best. Good enough to see him break into the world bowling top ten.
12 Feb 2010, 13:19 pm
@TheTackler: 133
I thought you said that if he bowls longer spells, ie more than 30 overs, it would bring down his rpo to around two.
At Centurion he bowled 37 overs at 3.32rpo in the first innings. Another bad day at the office I guess. Granted he also took 5wickets then.
12 Feb 2010, 13:19 pm
I guess in the end it comes down to what a captain wants from his spinner. I’d rather have a guy who is a touch on the expensensive side but takes wickets regularly than have guy who bowls a negative line all day waiting for batsmen to lose their cool.
A guy like Paul Adams or Stuart McGill would make my team anyday over a guy like Harris.
Harris is ok for now but as soon as we find an attacking spinner, we need to ditch him. I don’t think those Indian batsmen will make the same mistakes twice so unless Herra has a few tricks up his sleeve. It’s going to be a long, hot day under the skies of Kolkata.
12 Feb 2010, 13:21 pm
Yoh my spelling and grammar was **** in that post….sorry!
12 Feb 2010, 13:47 pm
132 nama
2.73 is well below 3. Be quiet mini cricketer. Go learn about the game rather
12 Feb 2010, 14:00 pm
TheTackler
Dont bother debating the finer points of the game with nama as he simply does not know what he is talking about.
He’s a know-it-all who is sadly ignorant about a game he couldnt play. After the age of 9 that is
12 Feb 2010, 14:04 pm
@TheTackler: 137
So now you compare Harris’ economy rate to that of Steyn. Come now Tackler, you know they have different tasks within the team.
I can see GS telling Steyn: “Go get me a wicket. Don’t worry too much if they score runs of your bowling. Just get me a wicket” To Harris he would say,”I want you to keep it tight this end. Don’t give them any free hits. Don’t worry if you don’t get a wicket. As long as they don’t score too many runs of your bowling, I’ll be satisfied”
Now how can you compare the economy rate per over of two bowlers such as that.
Let me give you another comparison:
Harris takes a wicket after every 74th ball that he bowls. Steyn on the other hand takes one every 43rd ball. Now if I have Steyn in my team, even if he goes at 5rpo, it would still be OK as long as he can give me a wicket after every 6 overs that he bowls.
12 Feb 2010, 15:28 pm
@nama1: You are such a racist. I’ve been reading on this site for a while without posting.
But you always seem to have praise for the coloured player and distain for the white player, in most cases.
Now you’re having a go at Harris for no apparent reason.
Get a life…
Who are you anyway? You’re probably some loser coloured okie with a cliche coloured name like Ashwell or Kerswell or Vergil.
Take off the tinted glasses!
12 Feb 2010, 17:19 pm
@Younis:
From Rashied to Younis now, I see.
You also have problems reading, it seems.
12 Feb 2010, 17:23 pm
i’m so not younis … must be my cousin or a tjommy van my
12 Feb 2010, 17:26 pm
i’m not a big fan of Harris myself… but the guy is taking wickets …
12 Feb 2010, 17:28 pm
@TheTackler: 134
Also, Paul Adams’ career rpo rate was 2.98. He was always regarded as being a bit on the expensive side for a spinner and rightly so. But he was at least an attacking spinner unlike Harris whose rpo is not much less although he is a “holding” spinner.
Something don’t add up here.
12 Feb 2010, 17:31 pm
60% of P Adams wickets was from long hops
12 Feb 2010, 17:32 pm
jay vergil, i mos do speak the truth my naaier
face the facts you racist coloured. ya vergil ya my tjommy
12 Feb 2010, 17:48 pm
For all you okes who have a problem reading and understanding what I try to say, one last effort from my side.
1. Harris is the best spinner we currently have and should be in the team.
2. His overall test record is decent to good. Not very good or brilliant.
3. As a “holding” spinner he is a bit on the expensive side. His rpo should be nearer to 2rpo than 3rpo.
4. His season so far has been average in comparison with the previous season.
I really find it strange that other people like Kerneels can call his season “mediocre”, Gunther said “Harro is not setting the world alight” but yet when I say that he is having an average/below par season, I’m being accused of all sorts of things.
What gives?
12 Feb 2010, 17:53 pm
strange thing is …. everytime harris gets dropped .. he comes back and has a blinder of a test … he’s not my fav cricketer, but i heard that he is brilliant in sledging aswell…
12 Feb 2010, 18:00 pm
@Younis:
Come now boetie. “Fight club” is over and insulting each other on this forum is not part of the deal.
I don’t think your parents would be proud of you if they read what you just wrote, especially your Po.
12 Feb 2010, 18:24 pm
It’s not an insult vergil. it’s the truth
what’s a po my tjommy
12 Feb 2010, 22:23 pm
@nama1: Quickies tire out faster than spinners and must bowl short spells. And there is a big difference between a bowler’s strike rate (Steyn easily beats Harris) and an economy rate (Harris easily beats Steyn). Harris needs 74 balls for a stump; Gogga needed 66, so Harris needs one-and-a-half overs longer, but he concedes fewer runs per over than Adams, making the comparison much of a muchness.
As for spinners being “holding” or “attacking”, that’s really a mythical distinction invented by spectators and ill-informed commentators. All spinners are attacking spinners. All aim to take as many wickets as they can, either directly using spinning guile or by frustrating the batsman into rash aggression and then giving his wicket away. Murali, Warne and Harbhajan were guilemasters and few batsman would try tonking them, even if they did regularly accumulate the wickets of those who were foolish enough to try.
Most orthodox spinners generally end up with victims who are caught rather than bowled, though. They mistime shots owing to the subtle deception caused by small variations of line, length, flight, speed and turn rather than the majorly huge deceptions of a completely different wrong ‘un delivery such as a doosra or googly or flipper.
Spectators adore these huge deceptions because they understand them very easily. And they adored Gogga because of his very weird bowling action. They don’t, however, “get it” when an orthodox spinner bowls over after over of miserly orthodox deliveries. They are puzzled by the batsmen’s apparent cowardice in not hammering these apparently innocuous deliveries into the crowd at least three times an over. And they’ll bag the bowler for being “ineffective”, even when he bags a fifer.
That’s little more than an awful display of their own cricketing ignorance, really.
There is nobody more misunderstood and undervalued in modern crash-bang-wallop cricket than the orthodox slow bowler.
They are to any team what good brakes are to a car. Tyre-kickers and boy-racers don’t buy a car because it has good brakes; they’ll be obsessed with the speed, the acceleration, the handling, the looks, the fit, the finish and the resale value. But, when things go badly wrong and you have brilliant brakes, you’ll be grateful you had these unspectacular and undervalued components to save your bacon.
13 Feb 2010, 08:46 am
I know that there is a big difference between the ER and SR. I only brought it up because you compared Steyn’s ER with that of Harris and in my view one should not do that because of the different roles they have within the team as far as their bowling is concerned.
It is exactly when this orthodox spinner bowls over after over that I would expect him to have a good ER as it is then his job to tie up one end in order to frustrate the batsman until he makes a mistake. Figures of 30 overs for something like 60-70 runs will then do it for me even if the spinner only took one or two wickets or none at all. But if he goes for something like 90-100 runs, I don’t think that he has done a good job. In Harris’ case he is still not consistent enough tying up one end, in other words not allowing the batsman to score at a rate of around 3rpo from his bowling.
13 Feb 2010, 13:17 pm
He’s at 2.73rpo, not “around 3″. The great Warne is only marginally better at economy at 2.65, but with a great strike rate of 57.4. Murali is even better at ER 2.47 and SR 55.1. Harbhajan Singh is at ER 2.83 and SR 66.1 — meaning that Harris actually boasts a superior ER as well as a superior SR to the feared and universally-respected Turbanator! Dan Vettori has a ER of 2.62 and a SR of 76.7.
The point here is that whichever way you look at Harris’s bowling stats, he’s operating not a long distance away from the very best spinners in all of modern history, and he’s actually doing rather better (albeit marginally) than some of the other modern giants of the test spinner’s art. He’s right up there square in the middle of a group consisting of all the world’s top spinners.
His economy rate is truly world class. Even a legendary spinner only contains batsmen at something between 2.5 and 3 rpo. None manage to choke it all the way right down to 2rpo. And Harris is comfortably in the middle of that sweet 2.5-to-3 band. Can’t fault him there!
And then, he usually grabs a nice 5 wicket haul here and a 3 wicket haul there for himself — and the scorebook only shows the dismissals he got, and not the ones he provoked out of the frustrated batsmen who tonked the bowlers at the other end and paid the price.
That’s genuine world class value. The career numbers never lie.
13 Feb 2010, 13:27 pm
@TheTackler: You’re a bit dumb mate.. ER has significance in Limited overs where as in the 5 dayers it is bullshit. Your average (Wicket per Inninings) is the deciding factor. The game is completely different in respect of bowling rules.. offside and wides. Negative bowling in the 5 dayers can always improve your ER that is why it is penalised with greater severity in the limited overs
13 Feb 2010, 13:28 pm
Pardon — Turbanator has a slightly better SR than Harris, whose numbers almost exactly mirror those of Vettori. And I’ve yet to hear any cricket pundit from anywhere hold the view that Vettori isn’t one of the very best spinners in the modern game or that he should be dropped.
13 Feb 2010, 13:32 pm
@The Almighty Shaun: Meant to say legside.. still caught up in the rugby chat
13 Feb 2010, 13:45 pm
Career ER is HIGHLY significant in test cricket, which is precisely why Wisden keep a record of it. Career ER is irrelevant in ODI cricket, whereas it’s ER-per-each-match that counts.
In an ODI any spinner only gets 10 overs max anyway — nowhere near long enough to do in a batsman’s head properly as one can do in a test.
And you saw how expertly Harris bottled up the Indians at Nagpur, and provoked them into giving their wickets away with rash shots as they were gripped by the fear of being becalmed in the doldrums as their batting strike rates plunged.
He gently did their heads in completely. And so did Steyn, but by the brutal use of an entirely different instrument of mental torture.
The ODI brigade are a brutishly simple lot. Steyn’s blunt instrument isn’t too hard for them to grasp. The nuanced subtleties of test spinning is, however, pitched far above their mental crossbar.
ODI fans are into the cricket equivalent of Iron Maiden; test spin fans appreciate the more subtle stuff — the equivalent of an ostensibly-baffling Edgar Varese tone-poem, possibly.
13 Feb 2010, 15:02 pm
YOu lost the plot mate.. Limited overs is about containing and therewith limiting the oppositions runs… Taking wickets is less important than reducing the runs. In 20/20 ER is a massive factor… But in 5day test cricket???.. Don’t be silly mate.
You qualify your argument by referring to wisden reporting on that bit of stats.. They report on many things.. average age,average caps, average lbw, catches…. and other less significant factors that can be measured…
For all the noise you make on this blog about quotas, etc.. your inability fathom the basics of cricket reduces your credibility even further in raising any rational arguments
13 Feb 2010, 16:01 pm
@TheTackler: 128.
He DOES turn in figures of around 2rpo as a rule.
134
His career avg at 2.7 IS very comfortably below 3rpo.
At least we have now move away from the notion that Harris turn in figures of around 2rpo as a rule and accept that that is the exception hence his career ave of 2.73. Not bad if you compare it to the other recent top spinners in the world as you prove.
Your view that 2.7 is comfortable below 3rpo is probably debatable. I already stated what I regard as such and am not going into it again.
BTW, you should be careful using stats on this forum to prove a point. WP_, our resident cricket expert, does not like it very much and may start calling you a “stats monger” if you continue doing that.
13 Feb 2010, 16:47 pm
Oh shut up Nama you miserable little character
13 Feb 2010, 17:02 pm
@WP_:
Come now WP_, calm down.
Just pour yourself another glass of that cheap red wine you like so much. What’s its name?
.
.
.
.
.
Oh yes…. Tassenberg or is it Oom Tas.
You sound like an oom Tas man to me.
13 Feb 2010, 17:12 pm
Come on you Lions!!!
13 Feb 2010, 19:02 pm
166 nama
I really doubt that I’m the one who drinks th cheap wine in this situation. HAHAHA.
You are amusingly pathetic. Good for you
13 Feb 2010, 19:24 pm
@WP_:
Why don’t you try another descriptive word. “pathetic” is becoming boring or is it the only one you know?
Oom Tas doen dit aan ‘n mens. Laat hak jou vas… hak jou vas…hak jou vas…ha
Your take on the Stormers performance?
13 Feb 2010, 19:58 pm
169 nama
Yes it’s the only one I know.
Stormers were decent. Go Chiefs
13 Feb 2010, 20:00 pm
@WP_:
Sorry to hear that.
13 Feb 2010, 20:09 pm
171 nama
Oh you can hear? Suprising.
13 Feb 2010, 20:18 pm
@WP_:
Good come back.
Yes. And feel, and see, and smell. All my senses are intact. It seems if you have lost some of yours.
Oom Tas does that if you over indulge. You should be careful. Where are we going to get another expert if you lose all of them?
13 Feb 2010, 20:30 pm
Hey dude. Get over your little Oom Tas obsession. It’s borderline disturbing.
I know more about cricket now, than you will ever know in your sad little life, so goodbye
13 Feb 2010, 21:49 pm
@WP_:
As long as you believe it, it will come true….one day.
13 Feb 2010, 21:59 pm
Believe it, novice
13 Feb 2010, 22:13 pm
@The Almighty Shaun: Limited overs is indeed about containing, but if you only have 10 overs, you hardly even have time to get the oil in your sump warmed up.
Spinners in ODIs have a totally different sort of containment role — batsmen can’t use the speed of their deliveries to get the boundaries they seek and are therefore obliged to tonk them quite recklessly. Also, whenever a wicket falls, the new batsman takes time to get his eye in, and this curbs the run rate. So it makes a huge difference to his rpo rate if a spinner comes on at or near the fall of a wicket or whether he’s brought in to curb an eye-in pair of batsman flaying the seamers to the fence. There’s hardly any subtle mind-game playing going on in an ODI as there is in a test.
You can’t truly show your spinner’s bottling-up art in only 10 overs.
But, subtleties aside, you’ve been given factual proof by Wisden of how good a test spinner Harris is — an ER deeply below 3rpo, and up there on both ER and SR with the likes of Vettori and Harbhajan and not all that far off that of Warne and Murali.
Anyone who thinks Harris is an unworthy selection is an ignoramus foolishly reciting the dumb views of other ignoramuses as “proof”.
13 Feb 2010, 22:16 pm
As for the 20/20 tip-and-run miss-and-giggle “sport” — that is to cricket what candy-floss is to a balanced diet.
13 Feb 2010, 22:33 pm
20/20 is not cricket. It’s a circus.
14 Feb 2010, 04:24 am
@WP_: Hear hear! ODIs aren’t real cricket either. They are a bit like cappuchinos made with instant coffee.
14 Feb 2010, 08:05 am
@TheTackler: 177
I’m guessing here but I suppose your last paragraph is aimed at something I said about other bloggers also calling Harris’ season “mediocre”.
Now if only you can direct me to where I said that Harris is an “unworthy selection” or should not be in the team.
15 Feb 2010, 02:48 am
Just as well you didn’t! It has, however, almost become the lyrics of a hit song performed by a choir of SA cricket scribes, including the clowns opining here, to bag Harris and insist on his unsuitability as a test spinner in spite of the record books proving them all wildly wrong.
I think he’s a world-class spinner and a deserved selection, and the numbers prove me right.
The trouble comes in when a bunch of couch yahoos who know diddly-squat about cricket in general and spin-bowling in particular suddenly feel that their dime-a-dozen-dimwit opinions count just as much as that of someone a whole lot better informed.
Dullards really get my dander up.
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