Sharks to blame, not ref
8 Mar 2010
Referee Paul Marks did not lose the Sharks the match against the Waratahs in Sydney, writes Keo in his weekly Business Day column.
The Sharks, low on confidence and low on luck but high on ill discipline, were the guilty parties in a fourth successive tournament defeat.
Marks did not stupidly trip a player when there was no danger of a try being scored. That stupidity and subsequent yellow card belonged to Jannie du Plessis. Marks did not cynically dive into a ruck to kill the ball 5m from his tryline. That desperation and subsequent yellow card belonged to Andy Goode.
Calls for a penalty try in the last moment of the match were also based on emotion because Marks, according to the laws, was not within his rights to award one. A penalty try is awarded when the referee is in no doubt a try would have been scored. Invariably penalty tries come from collapsed scrums a metre or five from the tryline or from any professional infringement committed by the defending players very close to their tryline. When Waratahs replacement centre Kurtley Beale went for the intercept, and on seeing he wasn’t going to get it deliberately knocked the ball down, there is no certainty that Ryan Kankowski (waiting to collect the pass) would have scored.
I would like to think Kankowski, one of the fastest loose forwards around, would have scored. So would Kankowski and his coach John Plumtree. But how would the referee have known Kankowski would not have spilled the pass, tripped or pulled a hamstring on his 30m run to the tryline? He couldn’t and that is why the right decision was made not to award the try.
Giving a penalty and the yellow card was good refereeing.
If the Sharks are brutal in their post-match assessment they will know they were not the victims in this match but the guilty parties.
It is the South African way to look to others for blame, but if the Sharks are to find some way back into the Super 14 playoffs the only ones they have to be finding fault with at the moment are themselves. Waratahs captain Phil Waugh is correct when he says the Sharks are too good a team to be zero from four. The Sharks should be in the playoffs with the quality of the squad and coaches. Ruan Pienaar should be playing flyhalf, primarily because it is in the national interest; not a former England international who would look more comfortable in the Vodacom Cup than he does in the Super 14. The selection of Andy Goode has to be questioned, as does the quality of the Sharks back play in the final 20 minutes. It was average.
The Tahs had just returned from SA and if we use the argument that any travelling team is most vulnerable in their first week it explains the Waratahs’ performance, that of the Brumbies, the Chiefs and the Hurricanes in Bloemfontein. It would be hypercritical to use the first-week travel curse as the reason our teams struggle in that first match overseas, but not attribute the same to overseas teams coming here or them returning home when our teams have been there a fortnight or more.
The Brumbies and Tahs players looked lethargic and the Canes appeared to still be in a time zone between Wellington and Johannesburg. The Cheetahs, always good for one big win at home in the competition, were outstanding, but all they did is what they do every year, which is knock one Kiwi or Aussie team over in Bloemfontein.
The Stormers also did nothing out of the ordinary in Cape Town in taking the five points from the Highlanders. It may seem a harsh call on a team that wins 33-0, but if the measurement is title contender then they simply played as you expect of a title contender. They won at home against an ordinary side that invariably struggles on the road. This tournament is about keeping perspective and the one thing its history shows is that the best teams win their home games.
The Bulls are doing this; the Stormers have been better this season than in the past and the Cheetahs never win enough home games to challenge for a position in the top 10.
It doesn’t mean you can’t revel in their Bloemfontein victory, but it has to be seen in the context of the 80 minutes and it should not create false expectation. Neither should the rain in Canberra make you believe the lame Lions will be anything but fodder.
303 Comments
8 Mar 2010, 12:02 pm
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ROAR …®
8 Mar 2010, 12:04 pm
‘Marks did not stupidly trip a player when there was no danger of a try being scored.’
If they were in danger of conceding a try would it be ok to trip some guy?
8 Mar 2010, 12:06 pm
Not so fast Keo, what did the ref give Beale the yellow card if he( the ref) had deemed that there was no try scoring opportunity?, do refs now give yellow cards for knock on’s, deliberate or not, in the middle of the park??
That is bullshyt, Keo, that is bull
8 Mar 2010, 12:06 pm
What = why
8 Mar 2010, 12:07 pm
ummm…you say nothing about Jannie being blown for obstruction when he was perfectly legally bound..?
8 Mar 2010, 12:08 pm
Oh no Keo has just opened a can of ref worms. Watch all the ref blamers come out of the cracks on this one.
8 Mar 2010, 12:09 pm
@XhosaKid: yeah i’m with you here. Yes, the fact is that the Sharks didn’t score enough points so they lost. But the other side of the coin is that the ref’s error in judgement goes against all that we know about the rules in that situation.
If he carded him it must be a penalty try, plain and simple. He deemed the offence to be of a serious enough nature that the reading of the rules leave no other option than to award a penalty try. The rules say possible try, not probable. He was just to scared to do it, because he couldn’t face anyone in his hometown if he did.
8 Mar 2010, 12:10 pm
oh, keo putting the BOOT in!!!
8 Mar 2010, 12:10 pm
2 minded selection this….
Ok – lemme gooi this out there… i had a look at the Sharkies this weekend…
Imo Plum is making a big mistake in either subbing his captain, or not playing him for 80 if he is good enough to start.
Why do they do it?
Is John only fit for x-minutes?
Do they need his captaincy only for x-minutes?
Why sub him when the business end of the game starts with 30 to go? Surely they need his captaincy then the most? It is a fact that John is one of the best bok captains ever…. isn’t he anymore? Is that what you are telling us by taking him off? Is he a brilliant captain off the field with the media and all the external factors – or is he still a brilliant captain in the game situations?
Or are you telling us he’s not good enough, fit enough, or as a captain hasn’t got such an influence on the game – to play 80? Cause you keep on subbing him!
Imo it is totally wrong to take your captain off without him being injured! Surely he is the leader of the pack? Not?
Plum… imo… either play him for 80 or drop him if he is not good enough but this is costing you games! You need his captaincy (if that is why you choose him), or his play (if that is why you choose him) or if you think you need Bissie’s (cause you signed Bissie as the nu 1 hooker at the franchise…
then play Bissie … you can’t have both in every game. You can’t say John will be playing 3 then change by dropping the best 2 in the world (imo) to play John at 2 ….but in the game play John only for x-minutes. (am i explaining my thinking correctly here? – hope so)
70 – 74 min….Sharks had gazillion ball on the try-line and JS was sitting on the side line
…… surely the bok captain would have made the correct choices regarding what to do with possession? Or … again…are you telling us you don’t need his captaincy or play then? 
Plum… you can sugarcoat this anyway you like but John is either good enough or not! Either as a player or as captain – so for whatever reason you decided to choose him… play him for 80min!
That’s my opinion on the state of the Sharks as i see it’s ….
Get the structure of the team in order…..
8 Mar 2010, 12:12 pm
@Hurricane: Ref blamers have been very busy all morning…only solution is to go back to using refs from other countries to ref all games.
8 Mar 2010, 12:13 pm
Have to agree here … lets see the Stormers and Bulls play a few away games.
8 Mar 2010, 12:14 pm
@XhosaKid: He got a yellow because he deserved it. As Keo’s says the so called try would probably not have been scored … according to the ref.
Unfair play
10.2
Intentionally Offending. A player must not intentionally infringe any Law of the Game, or
play unfairly. The player who intentionally offends must be either admonished, or cautioned
that a send off will result if the offence or a similar offence is committed, or sent off.
Sanction: Penalty kick
A penalty try must be awarded if the offence prevents a try that would probably otherwise
have been scored. A player who prevents a try being scored through foul play must either
be cautioned and temporarily suspended or sent off.
8 Mar 2010, 12:15 pm
@Staal: Plum couldn`t get permission from Bismarck so he won`t be able to play Smit for 80 minutes, sorry.
8 Mar 2010, 12:16 pm
@Staal: good point, the same goes for subbing bakkies in the last 20 for the Boks. Surely he is fit enough to play 80?
8 Mar 2010, 12:17 pm
@Staal: John is too fat and tired to play 80 min. They may want him for the whole 80min. But it does not appear to be possible.
Schalk too. Only 60 min en dan is hy klaar.
8 Mar 2010, 12:17 pm
Quote from Beale, “If I hadn’t hit the ball up, it was going to be a try and it would have been a totally different story” If Beale thought so??
8 Mar 2010, 12:18 pm
Its a tough one to call. I said that day that kanko could have dropped the pass, pulled a hammie or even been tackled by a spectator. But surely it can be expected of a reasonable rugby player to have scored?
Sharks dont have anyone to blame but themselves and Doctor Jannie. Him and his brother are petulant little children. Cost the Sharks two games now. Surely Smit would have roped them in by now?
@XhosaKid: I think you do have a point though.
8 Mar 2010, 12:22 pm
@Staal:
Staal makes good points, but he doesn’t go far enough. Someone made the call to bring on subs and move certain players out of position; notably Adi Jacobs to inside centre and Ruan Pienaar to flyhalf. As soon as this happened, the backline lost its shape.
Whoever made that call was responsible for the loss.
Having said that, this was the worst bit of refereeing I’ve seen since 2004′s “Take a moment to speak to your boys”. Forward passes on both sides gone unpunished, half-hearted application of the laws (ie; if the transgression was serious enough to merit a yellow it should have been a penalty try), players on both sides being shushed and worst of all, line-out drives are apparently penalisable. I’m usually quite forgiving of referees, but this was simply abject.
8 Mar 2010, 12:22 pm
@Staal: 9. You make some good points here, unlike other idiots who scream out with no credibility.
8 Mar 2010, 12:23 pm
@Storm outta hell: I’m with you there. Seems the fairest way to go.
8 Mar 2010, 12:25 pm
well, i only caught the last 12 mins of this game.
my skoopa was supposed to pvr it as we headed up to ballito to visit them.
he pvr’ed the first 11 mins of the pre match build up and then pressed a button and wiped the setting.
so……i got to see the last 12 mins and in that time, the sharks were pressing hard.
despite what keo says, the rules are clear, it was a definite penalty try imo. speculating as to wether kanko would have caught the ball is bs and laughable actually.
that said, stefan was clear and should have passed earlier or gone himself.
the sharks APPARENTLY should have closed the game out but again, it seems to be a season that just wont come together.
it happens.
the simple fact is that the sharks seem to be finding form and if we can do the other sa franchises a favour or two, it will not be a complete loss of a season.
my final thought is that sometimes in life you are given a chance to show your metal, yor resolve and ability to stand up to the occasion and make the difficult decisions that prove you are able to shine on the big stage.
marks bottled it. he didnt cheat, he wasnt biased, there was no conspiracy. he gave the yellow card showing that he believed beale had prevented a try (otherwise why such a harsh sentence?) but could not find the guts to make the hard call in front of a partisan home crowd.
he has shown himself to be lacking in character and if it sounds like sour grapes, so be it. i am over the loss and am only giving my opinion, remember, this man may be entrusted with more opportunities to show his lack of spine and dont be surprised if you find yourselves saying the same thing as me.
and with that, i am back to work. i will read all the snide remarks later
8 Mar 2010, 12:26 pm
Looking at it conversely – if the ref had awarded the penalty try there would have been far less of an outcry from Sydney today compared to what is coming out of Durbs today…
That said – the banana boys are lacking a game plan – ten mintes before the end they had so much possesion but you could see they had no idea what to do with it….
Keo, can you shed any light on what is happening in Durban – the boys look unhappy and it doesn’t seem to be a happy camp?
8 Mar 2010, 12:30 pm
12.1 THE OUTCOME OF A KNOCK-ON OR THROW FORWARD
(e) Intentional knock or throw forward. A player must not intentionally knock the ball forward with hand or arm, nor throw forward.
Sanction: Penalty kick. A penalty try must be awarded if the offence prevents a try that would probably otherwise have been scored.
There is the rule in black and white. The probality that try would of been scored is much higher than the probality that it would not of been scored. The law states nothing about field position. And Frankly the probality that he was going to trip or pull a hamstring is extremly low!
8 Mar 2010, 12:30 pm
@RedLion: One would assume or deduce from the definition that “probably” is the operative word,the law doesn’t define or is not restricted to what area of play is the offence committed, it just says were a try would probably have been scored if it wasn’t for the offence.
So if we apply Keo’s reasoning or yours, why did the ref award the penalty try for the Brumbies, how did he know that the Brumbies were not going to knock on when trying to pick up the wet ball from the base of the scrum, or one of their flankers peeling off and unbinding to the scrum, or a Brumby prop sliping a bind at the next reset? all these things could happen but the ref still blow a penalty try. Its obvious, why they do that, it has nothing to do with the distance but a repeated, deliberate offence to prevent a try from being scored
By your reasoning, penalty tries should not exist in the game, Beale knew exactly what he was doing, Marks fcuked up, period, having said that, yes, the sharks are playing kak.
8 Mar 2010, 12:32 pm
@Sonito:
And I thought the refs are supposed to blow the laws to the letter this year.
8 Mar 2010, 12:32 pm
I disagree with this article.
The Sharks are not playing great rugby, but they lost to the Chiefs in a rain soaked game by a point or two, and Pro Legoete cost them the Cheetahs game.
They lost the Crusaders game fair and square, but this refereeing call was the difference between a victory and a loss against the Tahs.
Despite not quite hitting their stride, the Sharks could easily have been 3 out of 4 now, and the Waratahs game could have turned their season around.
Now, because things just keep going wrong when you’re down, they are probably going to have an atrocious tournament.
Meanwhile, Keo gets to have a dig at the Sharks because he has an axe to grind with them for having the audacity to employ his nemesis, a certain Mr. Strauli.
Bury the hatchet, Keo. You destroyed his career just as much as he damaged yours.
8 Mar 2010, 12:34 pm
@Tacitus: 26. Interesting…
8 Mar 2010, 12:35 pm
Sharkies lost.
Period.
Full Stop,
End of story.
All the navel gazing in the world, will not change this simple fact.
Did they deserve victory in Sydney?
Not in your life. Or mine.
8 Mar 2010, 12:35 pm
Worst bit of refereeing I have seen since the Habanna try in the Super 14 against the self same Sharks. The Sharks are playing very poor rugby and these things happen when the team is down. It is not going to change the outcome of the game or stop it from happening again. All teams have had their fair share of poor/local decisions before. When it goes for us, we are happy, when against us the world ends.
8 Mar 2010, 12:37 pm
@Tacitus: @26, I cant believe I’m agreeing with you, I was about to post that Keo seems to have grown cynical if not bitter these days, was wondering why
8 Mar 2010, 12:42 pm
@XhosaKid: 24
The Brumbies would ‘otherwise probably’ not have scored a try from that scrum … but I do not blame the ref for that try even if he was a poor ref. The Brumbies also crawled their way to another try but again it was the Lions fault for not kicking that player while he was down.
btw the Sharks could have won had they taken all their kickable penalty kicks … why a team that has scored only 3 tries in 4 matches did not not take the points on offer is a mystery.
8 Mar 2010, 12:45 pm
‘But how would the referee have known Kankowski would not have spilled the pass, tripped or pulled a hamstring on his 30m run to the try line? He couldn’t and that is why the right decision was made not to award the try.’
I am sorry but you just defeated your own argument,the mere
fact that the referee did not know all the things you mentioned
should have been grounds to award a penalty try.
The referee could only have entertained such thoughts if Kankowski was known to always,trip over his own feet,knock on
balls,tear hamstrings whenever he goes on a run.
If that had been the case he would not be playing for the Sharks.
8 Mar 2010, 12:46 pm
just by the way, was it 30m to the tryline?
i think not.
sonito posted the law and it seems like it is obvious a pen try was called for.
i agree with tac, the sharks season has been a case of “almost but not quite”
i dont blame pro legoman at all. kocky couldnt hit a barn door that day.
but the chiefs game was damn close in atrocious conditions and the cheetahs game was close too.
another season and it would have been 3 from 4. oh well, my glorious sharkies will be back, this much i know.
8 Mar 2010, 12:47 pm
@Tacitus: “the lame Lions will be anything but fodder.”
If Keo’s enemy is Strooli how do you explain his abvious anti-Lion stance? I am just happy that he only had 8 bad words to say about the Lions this week rather than full paragraphs.
8 Mar 2010, 12:48 pm
Keo… At least you have both eyes open. The whiney a$$ bitching going on here by an ‘what about me’ mentality deserves a BIG GIRLS BLOUSE award.
Harden up you lot of women.
8 Mar 2010, 12:48 pm
Keo obviously you are Bulls supporters the lot of you. I’ve been reading articles about you guys since forever and you always seem to praise the bulls every year. Now you just sucking up to them all the time. Yes the bulls are on top of there game and yes they look unstoppable. But what about a few years ago before they consistently performed there you said they were in a building phase yet they still had a number of established springboks but weren’t performing. You always remain optimistic about the bulls, why don’t you have a bit of optimism towards other South African sides like the Stormers this season as well our other sides instead of confining them to bottom of the log finishes every year when clearly they have the potential to do better. If the bulls don’t win the competition this year then you have over rated them already, so why cant you over rate a couple other sides, even though you so far up the bulls ***..
Every game of rugby played is based on a referee’s opinion it is subjective to the way the ref feels on the day. So yes some dodgy decisions may have been made against the sharks but they should still have won if the confidence and skill was there. Too many unforced errors in there own 22 cost them the game, cause they lead to 2 of the tahs tries. So as a shark supporter I’m sucking the ref up, but I wonder if the bulls were in the same position which they have been in super rugby before would this article written by keo read the same????
8 Mar 2010, 12:49 pm
@Brentie1:
that line is the most ridiculous reasoning. sounds like keo should run for ancyl prez.
8 Mar 2010, 12:50 pm
@RedLion:
I didn’t go there because I wanted to limit the length of my post, but Keo’s issues with the Lions are blindingly obvious:
They went for **** instead of retaining (at a handsome consulting fee) Jake White’s Winning Way. Keo’s business partner.
Come on, you know how these guys operate…
8 Mar 2010, 12:51 pm
Keo – to think that Business Day actually pays you to write such a “****” article …
8 Mar 2010, 12:52 pm
“But how would the referee have known Kankowski would not have spilled the pass, tripped or pulled a hamstring on his 30m run to the tryline?
Keo, you’re a joke. So when a ref gives a penalty try for a collapsed scrum how does he know that the 8th man wouldn’t have knocked the ball on? Or maybe little little mole men would have popped up and stolen the ball?
Go read the law book again.
8 Mar 2010, 12:53 pm
Good ol’ Keo trying to stir up some emotion with some controversy.
Nothing new there. I would love to slap him rather than Karl Marx, I mean Paul Marx. Some facts IMO.
1. You can never blame the ref for loosing.
2. Paul Marks was MVP for the Waratahs.
3. Waratahs were shocking.
4. Sharks were slightly less shocking.
Lets get over it now and beat the Brumbies.
8 Mar 2010, 12:53 pm
@PeaceFrog:
Keo usually writes ****. Thank goodness he doesn’t post much on his own website.
8 Mar 2010, 12:54 pm
@RugbyRulz: jaja rulz.
take the high ground all you like.
you and i both know it was a penalty try. read the rules your nic proclaims you to be an exponent of.
whiny *** bitching is one thing, talking about decisions that have a direct impact on a games result is quite another.
and in this case, marks couldnt even claim “i didnt see it” like stuart “temporary blindness” dickensen
8 Mar 2010, 12:54 pm
My son and a few mates attended the Sharks/Tahs game on Saturday night, with a few South African mates. It was an horrible affair. They along with numerous fans booed the spectacle (kick-a-thon).
The only humour from the match was when a Tah fan yellow carded a Sharkie fan for protesting far too vigorously, when Goode was carded. The Sharkie fan then spewed and cried like a banshee; he was immediately RED carded for dissent.
Both Tah and Shark fans hit the Brumby Bar and drowned their sorrow. The match was totally forgettable.
8 Mar 2010, 12:55 pm
@SkimpyShark:
The truth is, Keo’s positive comments about the Bulls are grudging at best, and extracted from him purely because he has no other choice. The Bulls have dominated SA rugby for the last 5 years – since Keo’s website has been in operation.
He would LOVE to trash the Bulls, but so far they have not given him much of an opportunity to do so with any credibility. Go and look at his articles in 2008, when Ludeke just took over. He let rip then.
Now we’ve forced him into submission once more – although he is no doubt just biding his time.
8 Mar 2010, 12:57 pm
@cane:
The team who scores the most points deserves to win. The ref took 7 points away from the Sharks.
I’m not shattered as the Sharks have no chance this year anyway, but the mere fact a yellow card was given means it should have been a penalty try.
But angry little Keo said, maybe Kanko would have pulled a hamstring, or been shot in the nuts by a sniper.
8 Mar 2010, 12:59 pm
or maybe we should just “suck it up” and keep our mouths shut and let poor decisions, mediocre reffing and gutless officiating become the norm?
we can all sink into a mire of mediocrity and forget about constant improvement. bring back the old days i say!
down with cellphones and inflatable tyres!
what a stupid stance actually, i usually know people are uncomfortable discussing something when they try to stifle debate with the “stop whining” angle.
8 Mar 2010, 12:59 pm
never mind whether the guppies should have won or lost.
keo, if you’re going to comment on the ref’s competence or lack thereof, make sure you know the rules. The rule says ‘a try probably would have been scored’ not ‘the ref has no doubt’.
until the ball is grounded correctly, there will always be a bit of doubt.
no, i’m not a sharkie supporter.
eejit.
8 Mar 2010, 13:00 pm
@Staal: Cmon Staal, whats with the bold letters? Its rude on a blog, its like writing in capitals.
In any case, regarding your point, not sure I totally agree with you. The Sharks have Bismark on the bench, why not play him for 20 minute as an impact player. Ideally your captain should stay on the pitch ja, but if you need some fresh legs..
In any case I am not always so convinced that Bismarck is all that great. He is mobile and strong sure, but not completely convinced about him in the scrums, and he also has a tendency to do some downright stupid illegal things sometimes.
8 Mar 2010, 13:01 pm
@Tacitus:
Ludeke never should have gotten the Bulls job. He wasn’t qualified.
It’s turned out ok that’s for sure.
Maybe someone knew something I didn’t.
8 Mar 2010, 13:02 pm
LET ME TELL YOU PEOPLE SOMETHING.
Those sharks were not robbed. If you cry over a geen waarborg, then you are in a very bad place.
If that opportunity had been missed they should have made another one if they were good enough.
I think for Natal the game is over. They should just stick to criket . Leave the rugby for proper rugby players. Let the Spears or Griquas play instead. Some team with a passion to play
8 Mar 2010, 13:02 pm
I didn’t see the game on Saturday so cannot comment too much. My only question is that some say that the Sharks didn’t deserve to win the match, so by deduction the Tahs DID deserve to win it, yet by all the stats and discussion above the Tahs were terrible – defies logic for me that people say the Sharks didn’t deserve to win it.
Any side that loses by 4 points and has 2 rough decisions plus 2 yellow cards couldn’t be that far off deserving to win the match.
8 Mar 2010, 13:02 pm
I would pay money to see Rudolph Straueli disipline Mark Keohane once and for all. About the only thing RS would be good for!
8 Mar 2010, 13:02 pm
@rangerman:
“what a stupid stance actually, i usually know people are uncomfortable discussing something when they try to stifle debate with the “stop whining” angle.”
Well bloody said.
8 Mar 2010, 13:03 pm
@rangerman: #43
No way, no how. You can call it (the entire 12 minutes) as you see fit. I don’t care what you think.
I know from this thread alone, Keo is taking a swipe at the poor sportsmanship on display.
We all roll with the punches, whether we like the deal or not.
I did not think at the time Beale warranted a yellow card. He was trying to intercept the ball. Therefore it is a knock/play forward = scrum.
Go read the Laws of Rugby. It ain’t rocket science.
Footnote: My name purely implies Rugby rules ( I think the game superior to all others)… my nick has absolutely nothing to do with the Laws of Rugby. Hope that clarifies my name for you… I wouldn’t dream of running with semantics
8 Mar 2010, 13:03 pm
@rugbygenius: you use the word “genius”very loosely, I see.
8 Mar 2010, 13:04 pm
@bananaboy: neither team deserved to win it…
to borrow a cricket euphemism
rugby “wasnt” the winner…
8 Mar 2010, 13:04 pm
@bananaboy: # 52
Do yourself a favour… Even if you have absolutely nothing to do… Do not watch it.
IT WAS *****
8 Mar 2010, 13:05 pm
@bananaboy: 52, simply put the lesser of the two evils won the match.
8 Mar 2010, 13:05 pm
@RugbyRulz:
“I did not think at the time Beale warranted a yellow card. He was trying to intercept the ball. Therefore it is a knock/play forward = scrum.”
You are kidding me right????? Not even JDV would have come close to an interception there.
The old ‘I tapped the ball up’ story is kak; its the same as a tap down.
8 Mar 2010, 13:06 pm
@rugbygenius: or Rugbyidiot?
The Sharks are one of the more succesfull SA super 14 teams and now they must be replaced by spears or Griquas?
Pull the other one.
8 Mar 2010, 13:06 pm
@CenturionShark (aka LondonShark): or maybe kanko would have decided the tahs deserved the game and just sat down and rolled a joint whilst singing give peace a chance?
maybe maybe maybe.
on probability, maybe kanko would have sauntered over the line and made the tahs fans boo a little louder and oneil would have had cardiac arrest and called for tries to be worth 2 points?
all the maybes in the world dont add up to carding a defender for a professional foul and then forgetting the rest of the rule.
that said, that is my last word on the matter. i wont convince anyone who doesnt agree and they wont convince me.
heres hoping the sharks can even out the stormers loss to the brumbies by coming righteously right against the only aussie side that seems to be threatening for the title.
oh what glorious karma that would be and yes, we will be dancing in the streets of durban and squealing with joy if that happens
8 Mar 2010, 13:07 pm
@bananaboy: Sir let me tell you. I remember the days of Cabous, Honiball, Gary, Mark and I weep for Natal. This isn’t a natal team. There is no passion. No fire. Andy Goode ? You telling me there is no-one else you would rather have ?
Please sir – I am a genius.
8 Mar 2010, 13:07 pm
@poppa69:
Yeah well said.
8 Mar 2010, 13:08 pm
@rangerman: the way they are playing, I believe the reds are the most potent Aussie team, they are playing some very good rugby…
8 Mar 2010, 13:09 pm
@Sonito: It was only a suggestion. And why not ? At this rate Griquas would give SA a much better chance of actually winning some games.
8 Mar 2010, 13:09 pm
So Keo has a dig at all the RSA teams on display this weekend.
Such a negative little short man complexed tw@t he is.
We should club together and buy him that “SA – The Good News” book.
No doubt he will be looking at any failings at the SWC to spew forth his afro-negativism once again.
Immigrate Keo, please. Whingers like you would fit in Pommy land. A small grey man you are indeed.
8 Mar 2010, 13:09 pm
And we haven’t even touched on was Kanko onside or not for the intercept try.
LMFAO
offside… go read the Laws
hahaha
8 Mar 2010, 13:10 pm
@rangerman:
or maybe kanko would have decided the tahs deserved the game and just sat down and rolled a joint whilst singing give peace a chance?
LOL
8 Mar 2010, 13:11 pm
I love this thread… Keo will be dodging jugs as he leaves his office today.
8 Mar 2010, 13:11 pm
@rugbygenius:
Ha ha ha, I’m with you on Andy Goode. He really does have a ‘punch me’ face.
That’s f*** comb over hair cut of his!!
8 Mar 2010, 13:12 pm
@RugbyRulz: ag i have said my piece rulz.
my swipe at your name was tongue in cheek, i am not prepared to argue semantics with someone who spells rules “rulz”
he did not try intercept the ball and since when is a failed intercept punished with a yellow card instead of a knock on scrum?
pull the other one friendo, that line of reasoning is laughable
8 Mar 2010, 13:13 pm
All jokes aside, that had to be one of the worst games I have seen in years. Geeze I thought it was 2 English teams lacking imports.
8 Mar 2010, 13:16 pm
@RugbyRulz: haha, dont try and deflect attention from a clear penalty try not being awarded by bringing up another incident rulz, it shows you concede the point
but seriously, it sounds like i was fortunate to miss the game though i didnt see it that way at the time.
gotta go, have a good day.
8 Mar 2010, 13:16 pm
Okay refs can make mistakes. For me anyhow that should have been a penalty try. It was not given. Refs make mistakes BUT A TMO SHOULD NEVER. The try just before the halftime that was awarded to the Tahs, was NOT a try. The ball was short of the try line. Watched the replay many times, first thought it was held up by Kanko’s hand/elbow, then looked at the replay again and thought it was not even over the line. Watching (All Out Rugby) They replay that and HIGHLIGHT the try line. The ball was held up by Kanko’s hand and it was just short of the try line. NOW TELL ME how can a TMO get that wrong? He has access to play that over and over and over and over. A ref could get it wrong as it in a split second but a TMO should never get it wrong.
Sorry guys it sounds not sportmanlike, but we were robbed there. Sharks were awful, really awful until the last 20min but we should still have won that game.
What about Walsh when he penalized the Lions and just after doing that winks at the Brumbies? What was that?
Bring back neutral refs. It has to be refs from NH too.
8 Mar 2010, 13:16 pm
@CenturionShark (aka LondonShark):
Best commentator comment of the weekend, that was.
“The only comb-over in the Super 14″
8 Mar 2010, 13:17 pm
perhaps the ref thought Jannie Du Plessis may have tripped Kanko on his way to the tryline
8 Mar 2010, 13:18 pm
@Puma:
What about Louw’s try last week which was CLEARLY a try!
And Walsh winks at all the players. He is just like that!
8 Mar 2010, 13:19 pm
keo old poenanie,
good thing you only a stirrer cause you write a b unch of poofies…
the shark has pulled on the shorttest end of a few ref decisions this year, not that most sharks hang this out as an excuse, b=ut rather look with concern at our lack of try scoring ability…
bit for you to write this bunch of hogwash is very sad on a good rugby forum like this..
if you look at the chiefs ref, then the transformer that blew the 2nd half against the cheetahs and now the w-end’s knobhead, you must be delusional not to be able to spot that they were hard done a few times, and this time like the s14 final a while ago the ref had a direct bearing on the outcome…
we supporters suck it up and move on, but the last thing we need is such knobhead journalism to condone the ref’s behaviour, rather than to call for an inquest into the quality of most referees and holding them acountable to a post match match analysis and a fine system, even a yellow card or so to keep them off the pitch…
keo, ur a knobbie…
8 Mar 2010, 13:19 pm
Whatever happened to Piet van Zyl?
8 Mar 2010, 13:20 pm
keo old poooooenaaaaanie,
good thing you only a stirrer cause you write a b unch of poofies…
the shark has pulled on the shorttest end of a few ref decisions this year, not that most sharks hang this out as an excuse, b=ut rather look with concern at our lack of try scoring ability…
bit for you to write this bunch of hogwash is very sad on a good rugby forum like this..
if you look at the chiefs ref, then the transformer that blew the 2nd half against the cheetahs and now the w-end’s kn@bhead, you must be delusional not to be able to spot that they were hard done a few times, and this time like the s14 final a while ago the ref had a direct bearing on the outcome…
we supporters suck it up and move on, but the last thing we need is such kn@bhead journalism to condone the ref’s behaviour, rather than to call for an inquest into the quality of most referees and holding them acountable to a post match match analysis and a fine system, even a yellow card or so to keep them off the pitch…
keo, ur a kn@bbie…
8 Mar 2010, 13:21 pm
@rangerman: #74
No man I honestly did not then nor do I know think that it warranted a yellow card. Marks in my opinion was rattled by Terblanche whinging about his own incompetence. Marks should have scrummed it and that’s about it.
Cheers Ranger
8 Mar 2010, 13:21 pm
Damn it’s hot here in the sticks.
8 Mar 2010, 13:23 pm
@Richie_7:
soon the ref will be tackled by the shark flasher girls if the carry on like this…
8 Mar 2010, 13:24 pm
Keo didn’t get his All Bran this weekend.
8 Mar 2010, 13:24 pm
@Dawn: # 76
Yes and timely that the cameraman framed Goode’ melon with the slight breeze fluffing it.
8 Mar 2010, 13:25 pm
@Richie_7:
We didn’t keep track of him.
Why you wanna know.
8 Mar 2010, 13:26 pm
Anyhooo folks, have a nice day.
Cheers
8 Mar 2010, 13:28 pm
@Dawn: That is is Dawn, Something has to be done about the bad reffing. Well done to your Stormers by the way. They looking really good.
Good one had a laugh there about Walsh……..hehehehe.
Okay just a quick post. Have a meeting to go to.
Cheers.
8 Mar 2010, 13:29 pm
is = it
8 Mar 2010, 13:34 pm
Sorry, Keo, but your argument makes no sense. By your reasoning, no penalty try would ever be awarded, as the player may lose control over the ball while grounding it.
In the lions match, the ref awarded a penalty try, but the player may have been struck by lightning while crossing the line.
The key word is “probably”. Not definitely. No ref is 100% certain that a try will be scored.
Apologies Keo, read all your columns, but today you are off the mark.
8 Mar 2010, 13:38 pm
@Goodie: That ref was Jonker and what he did was a disgrace. He allowed play for 10 min after the hooter and kept on going giviing the Lions a chance until he just gave them the penalty try. Sies.
Kanko was positioned ahead of the ball. It would have been a forward pass in my opinion anyway.
8 Mar 2010, 13:39 pm
@Puma: How goes the number 1 skinner bek.
8 Mar 2010, 13:46 pm
Want to know how a side can play scintillating rugby the one week and fail miserably the next week when exexuting the same things then listen to what Hickey had to say about his Tahs:
“You can talk about the humidity and the slippery ball, but the fact is we had a number of handling areas and they were errors that we made and they really broke our attacking momentum,” Hickey said.
“What the fans are looking for is skilful football and against the Bulls I think we showed what we’re capable of doing, but we were probably a bit disappointed in our performance on Saturday.
“The other key thing on Saturday was probably our inability to win a kick-off.
“We’d score and then straight away find ourselves on the back foot in our quarter in a defensive situation trying to work out of there.”
The Waratahs spent much of Monday’s training session addressing their re-start woes.
“Technically, we need to get there a little bit quicker, we need to set a little bit earlier and then that takes the pressure off the catcher,” Hickey said.
Star playmaker Berrick Barnes, who on Monday announced he’d signed a contract extension that will keep him at the Waratahs until the end of the expanded 2011 Super 15 season, was unconcerned about the side’s indifferent form.
“This competition has shown that no matter what team you’re playing, you’re going to have to grind out the odd win,” Barnes said.
“No matter what it looked like the other night, it was like playing with a cake of soap out there.
“So what we tried against the Bulls in good conditions probably didn’t work so much in our favour the other night.
8 Mar 2010, 13:47 pm
Keo can write some good sensible articles 98% of the time.
But this article , i mean come on.
If I had to pick a game out of the last 2 years – 2009/2010 , that was f***ked by the ref. This was the game…
Im feeling for the poor sharks , id be furious.
Us Province guys felt the same pain and anger in 2008 with Willie Roos.
8 Mar 2010, 13:47 pm
@bananaboy: Puts things in a different light when folks say the game *****. Just perhaps and I say perhaps the conditions didn’t help too mcuh.
8 Mar 2010, 13:53 pm
@rossoneri:
Fill me in!
Wat het hy geskinner?
8 Mar 2010, 14:03 pm
Hey Dawnertjie! long time no see.
‘ganit?
8 Mar 2010, 14:03 pm
@Dawn:LOL! Vir my. Maar hy was nou gewaarsku. I’m watching him.
8 Mar 2010, 14:05 pm
@roobarb2:
Wie is jy.
8 Mar 2010, 14:06 pm
@rossoneri:
Did I miss something?
8 Mar 2010, 14:12 pm
@Dawn: you are not the real Dawn.
8 Mar 2010, 14:12 pm
Rugby rulz, go watch dat pass again it was stefan and kanko next to him, with only beale with 30 meters to go with the game on the line, 2 on 1, 2 minutes left and beale will risk a try 4 da sharks to intercept,( also knowing that kanko stepped and outpaised mitchell so badly he”s still trying to find kanko. Cmon use cmon sense man. He tried to stop the try, dilliberately, oja and go watch kanko”s earlier try even rod kafger said he wasn’t offside, tahs took the line out quikly kanko was one of the only ones running to the lineout so it looked offside but wasn’t. Anyway doesn’t help crying over spilled milk, let’s try and do something against the brumb.
8 Mar 2010, 14:14 pm
@Dawn: Yes you did! Hurt Locker won all the major Oscars and Avatar won the scraps.
8 Mar 2010, 14:19 pm
Oh and woman made history at the Oscars this year. First woman Director and first woman to win Best Actress and the same Actress taking the Ras for Worst Actor in a year.
8 Mar 2010, 14:20 pm
@RedLion:
Am too.
@Blindspot:
And now Cameron and Bigelow are gonna kiss and make up?
8 Mar 2010, 14:20 pm
quote from the man himself:
“If I hadn’t hit the ball up, it was going to be a try and it would have been a totally different story,” he said.”
sorry Keo, even Beale disagrees with your insightful assessment.
8 Mar 2010, 14:21 pm
“wie is jy?”
outta sight outta mind. onthou jy nog vir bluebarb?
dis nou ek daai.
8 Mar 2010, 14:23 pm
@roobarb2:
Oh my goodness gracious me slat my om met ‘n nat piesang!
When did you change from blue to red!!!!!!!!!
8 Mar 2010, 14:25 pm
@Dawn: You think! I think not. When a woman rules a male drools.
8 Mar 2010, 14:28 pm
dawn, no! we don’t want to here about skinner!!!
no!
8 Mar 2010, 14:29 pm
@Sonito: Like Brussow doing his MC Ligament without nobody near him? Sheit happens, guys, so accept that the ref blew it as he saw it. He is the sole judge and obviously he felt that it could not be concluded that a try would probably have been scored. He obviously felt ha could not make that call and therefor awarded the penalty and yellow card as prescribed in the rules. It has nothing to do with guts or balls, and everything with fairness.
I have neverbeen scared to take KEO on when he is wrong in my opinion, but in this instance I have to concur with him.
8 Mar 2010, 14:29 pm
I hope we Stormers fans did not complain as much about the referee when Francois Louw’s try against the Brumbies was disallowed, which would in all likelihood have won the game for us.
Then again, we’re not averaging one yellow card a game.
8 Mar 2010, 14:32 pm
@catleya: I have neverbeen scared to take KEO on when he is wrong in my opinion, but in this instance I have to concur with him. SCARED – you on the wrong site mate or maybe The Tackler is – but none that I know of.
8 Mar 2010, 14:34 pm
Come to SA Mr. Marks. There’s a few fans who would like to meet you personally.
8 Mar 2010, 14:44 pm
@wpjoulekkading: # 29
Is dit beter so?
8 Mar 2010, 14:44 pm
29 should be 49
8 Mar 2010, 14:45 pm
As is verbrande hout.
Don’t cry over spilt milk.
Never bet your house on the Stormers.
8 Mar 2010, 14:53 pm
@WP Till I Die: wisdom
8 Mar 2010, 14:54 pm
Round 5
Chiefs vs Crusaders in Hamilton
Referee: Mark Lawrence (South Africa)
Assistant referees: Chris Pollock (New Zealand), Matthew Stanish (New Zealand)
Television match official: Ben Skeen (New Zealand)
I worry about this game, since Mark Lawrence does not understand how to blow the new interpretations at the break down.
Waratahs vs Lions in Sydney
Referee: Vinny Munro (New Zealand)
Assistant referees: Ian Smith (Australia), James Leckie (Australia)
Television match official: George Ayoub (Australia)
Should be fine.
Brumbies vs Sharks in Canberra
Referee: Garratt Williamson (New Zealand)
Assistant referees: Paul Marks (Australia), Simon Moore (Australia)
Television match official: Matt Goddard (Australia)
Garratt must not be influenced by the Sharks crying, he must blow fair. If Sharks lose then they lose.
Bulls vs Highlanders in Pretoria
Referee: Jonathan Kaplan (South Africa)
Assistant referees: Pro Legoete (South Africa), Christie du Preez (South Africa)
Television match official: Johann Meuwesen (South Africa)
Kaplan will ensure a massive victory for the Bulls.
Stormers vs Hurricanes at Newlands
Referee: Nathan Pearce (Australia)
Assistant referees: Steve Walsh (Australia), Marc van Zyl (South Africa)
Television match official: Shaun Veldsman (South Africa)
Should be fine.
Reds vs Western Force in Brisbane
Referee: Ian Smith (Australia)
Assistant referees: Paul Marks (Australia), Damian Mitchelmore (Australia)
Television match official: Steve Leszczynski (Australia)
Should be fine.
8 Mar 2010, 14:54 pm
on a lighter note, if anyone wants to see pure comedy, watch the 77th minute (thereabouts, between 77 and 78mins 30 secs) of the stormers landers game.
the landers chappie (i didnt even look who it was as i was laughing so hard) saunters over to lawrence and proceeds to kick him on his insole whilst pretending to do it by mistake.
its so blatant and obviously an attempt at intimidation of the ref but lawrence simply shoves the landers player away
one of the most astounding casual acts of violence i have ever seen perpetrated on a rugby field!
8 Mar 2010, 14:55 pm
dawnertjie, nou krap jy my om! my bloed is nog blou, ek maak net die cirlce bigger.
8 Mar 2010, 14:56 pm
@rangerman: if I was him I would have given Lawrence a left hook.
8 Mar 2010, 14:56 pm
Keo aka the JM of the rugby world, you are a tool.
It is clear what the outcome of the game would have been had it not been for the referee…
There is also no certainty that a try would be scored from a collapsed scrum 2 metres from the line. The 8 th man may also pull a hamstring or knock the ball while trying to ground it.
Your pearls of wisdom fall way short.
Please find another day job, this is clearly not working out for you.
8 Mar 2010, 15:00 pm
The Invictus hamper on offer leaves much to be desired.
Coupla t-shirts, one hoody, two duffel bags.
No DVD, no book.
8 Mar 2010, 15:02 pm
mark lawrence blew the breakdown in blatant favour of the stormers and i haven’t heard a squeek from the highlanders about being cheated or the ref being biased…
8 Mar 2010, 15:06 pm
my my 4 SA officials for the Bulls game, maybe us Anzacs should start talking about conspiracies? add that to the very favourable draw the Bulls have, and it suddenly does look as if something really stinks in the Sanzar setup…
8 Mar 2010, 15:07 pm
@rangerman: lawrence isn’t soft like some refs, he was jumping in the middle of the Ferris/Haskell fight in the Eng/Ire game
8 Mar 2010, 15:08 pm
@catleya:
Rather dumb comments. First of all the law does not prescribe a yellow card for a intentional knock on (see previous qoute for the law). The ref had 3 options,
1) Scrum if he did not believe it was a intentional knock on.
2) Penalty if he thought it was a intentional knock on.
3) Penalty try if he thought a try was going to be scored but for the intentional knock on.
Second of all the probality of a player tearing his hamstring running 30 meters is so F*cking low it is completly ridiculous to even bring it into the equation. The fact that the ref gave a yelow card proves he though he killed a try scoring chance but the ref did not have the guts to make the call.
8 Mar 2010, 15:09 pm
@Dawn: Well its just too bad unsensible blogging isn’t painful, then people wouldn’t do it
8 Mar 2010, 15:10 pm
Why are the Sharks the best lovers in the world..?..They stay on top for 78 minutes and still come second
8 Mar 2010, 15:11 pm
@poppa69: hey pops, what with all the main rugby stadiums in NZ looking so irregular, do they double up to be utilize by the black caps as well or what?
8 Mar 2010, 15:11 pm
@Big Hit:
That’s cos he wanted to get his highlights on TV.
8 Mar 2010, 15:13 pm
@bananaboy: one word: drugs!
8 Mar 2010, 15:14 pm
@Storm outta hell: At least we’re good at something!
8 Mar 2010, 15:14 pm
@Gonzo Journalism:
mate, they do use eden park for both games… I believe the caketin also is used for both as well.. the first T20 vs the aussies was there…the rest Im not too certain on.
but if we build specific stadiums we have no where to put all our sheep…
8 Mar 2010, 15:15 pm
@Transformation: 125 I thought you’d be happy about that.
8 Mar 2010, 15:15 pm
@Transformation:
Are you blind????
A few times the highlanders simply went from the side and kicked the ball out of the rucks!!!?????
This was one game where Mark just could not let us lose!!!
At least 2 times did they get away with us hot on attack and wanting o score……..I see Bulletjies are going fo 4/4 SA refs this weekend….must be good to be a BULL fan and player!
8 Mar 2010, 15:16 pm
Even my Aussie colleague at work thought it should have been a penalty try…hah! Put that in your pipe and smoke it Keo! Oh wait you’re already using it to smoke tik…ag shame!
8 Mar 2010, 15:18 pm
@rangerman: 120 Landers aka Cowan’s merry band of thugs.
8 Mar 2010, 15:19 pm
@poppa69:
It is something I’m not happy with believe me!
Every year the Cheetahs make the semi and finals in the CC…every year they do nothing in the S14 …….SA Refs come to mind?????
Did gaan net te lekker hier vir sommige spanne!
8 Mar 2010, 15:19 pm
@Dawn: mark lawrence’s highlights pale in comparison to andy ellis’ new platinum blonde look! Did you see him on saturday Dawnie? Lmao, even the commentators Nesbo & JP remarked the “ellis is looking more blonde than usual” hehehe
8 Mar 2010, 15:21 pm
@poppa69: You know how it is, normal stadium =’s square field with 4 x grand stands on each side or even oval shaped stands, but looking at Eden park and Carisbrooke, it looks like an architectural disaster….i mind you dont ever go to ABSA stadium in Durban if you suffer from vertigo, you get get quite high up there (in contrast to where the sharks are on the log)
8 Mar 2010, 15:21 pm
Poppa69
Last year in the CC the cheetahs came from behind to beat the WP with a penalty count of 17/2 for the cheetahs…after we scored the bonus point in the first 20min and were far better than them…..but Marius had something to say and before we knew it they were winning with a controversial penalty try!!! That is what I endure my friend!
8 Mar 2010, 15:22 pm
@Transformation:
I couldn’t get past the “comb-over” comment re Andy Goode.
Everything else paled by comparison.
8 Mar 2010, 15:23 pm
@Gonzo Journalism:
Looks like the whole of NZ is one big construction site.
And sod ‘em, they can’t grow a pair to beat Aus in the 50-over game.
So close but no bloody cigar.
8 Mar 2010, 15:24 pm
@Hoops: ah well, not much we as fans can do about it, wil be very interested to see after the game if there are any contentious issues what the reaction is on this site… unfortunately it is the way the learned scholars of Sanzar have decided, it really is a poisoned chalice though..
doesnt matter how fair a ref may be on the day, if he is reffing a team from his own country, there is always going to be perceived bias…
8 Mar 2010, 15:26 pm
@Dawn: we beat them in the first game dawnie? or you did not know that? the series is tied at 1-all, just like the T2o series finished at one all…
in fact, Aussie played the Windies and Pakistan at home and did not lose a onedayer, a T20 or even a test… in four games in NZ, they have lost 2 already… and people still think we collude with the aussies hahaha
8 Mar 2010, 15:26 pm
@Dawn: I see Vettori had a cracker, besides the loss, anything but an Aussie victory in Cricket, man that tastes sour…….what you say Poppa you follow the black caps or what ????
8 Mar 2010, 15:28 pm
@rossoneri:
we dont need kaplan to get a victory against the highlanders, we will do that on our own. Espacially if the landers play like they played against the Stmrs
8 Mar 2010, 15:29 pm
@Hoops:i counted 3 instances where stormers players didn’t attempt to show “daylight” between letting go of the tackled players before pilfering, infact flo & dries just got to their feet and held the ball & lawrence blew “holding on” for all instances…We can’t have some teams getting away with infringing and others pinged…
@KZN King Shark: you thought wrong!
8 Mar 2010, 15:31 pm
“A penalty try is awarded when the referee is in no doubt a try would have been scored.” WRONG!
Law 9: Method of scoring. States:
Penalty Try. If a player would PROBABLY have scored a
try but for foul play by an opponent, a penalty try is
awarded between the goal posts.
The key word here is “PROBABLY”! There is NO DOUBT that Kankow would PROBABLY have scored! Learn your rules keo.co.za.
KEO FAIL!
8 Mar 2010, 15:32 pm
@Gonzo Journalism: Eden park is first and foremost a rugby ground, so there are some very small boundaries when cricket is played there… Our cricket grounds are small though, such as Maclean park in Napier, hence scores are often very big… Rugby grounds are genrally built, then they improvise and use them for cricket..
its why the T20 at the Caketin ended with scores of 214 each side (we won the game in a super over)… Mccallum scored 115 not out, playing bowlers like Tait (150-160km) for 6 runs behind the keeper… was an amazing innings..
@Hoops: Jonker the Plonker, nuff said hoops… the standard everywhere is really appalling, it ruins the game… I feel for the players, who train and forego certain luxuries we take for granted to compete at the highest level, then it is taken out of their control…
like doping at the olympics…
8 Mar 2010, 15:32 pm
Gee! Looked at the scoreboard again and the Tahs still won. Result stands. Accept it, Shark fans… now move on. Try and win at least one game this season.
8 Mar 2010, 15:33 pm
haha guys, ja mark lawrence handled the blatant kiwi thuggery with ease.
after the landers player got shoved away by lawrence, he didnt even turn and apologise but walked off like a guilty man.
another funny moment was bryan habana trying to get up after monstering cowan, cowan held on because he was upset he had been manhandled and habs simply did a one armed pressup on jimmy’s face until jimmy let go.
pvr is quite good as you can pick up a lot.
another pearler was juan smith literally throwing a kiwi loitering offside over the ruck.
obviously there was no comeback from the kiwi but i would also stay out of juans way, he is a beast and playing damn fine rugby.
8 Mar 2010, 15:35 pm
@Gonzo Journalism: yeah, I was at work so didnt see the game, but 70 odd runs of 50 balls, especially as we were 5-85 at one stage chasing 273, to lose by about 12 runs was a fantastic effort… I support them, was fortunate enough to grow up in the golden age of kiwi cricket..
Sir Richard, Martin Crowe, Andrew Jones, Bruce Edgar, Ian Smith etc.. one truly world class bowler and batsman, the rest made for a very formidable team…
8 Mar 2010, 15:36 pm
Dawn, we will hopefully beat them tomorrow to go 2-1 up…
8 Mar 2010, 15:36 pm
@Dawn: ellis played in the game before that one! U were probably still spooning
8 Mar 2010, 15:39 pm
@Mick Dundee: how very mature mate.
if you want us to stop discussing an incident in a rugby game, then what should we talk about? the weather?
no man, dont try and stifle debate. its human nature questioning and seeking to improve that has led to every advance human beings have made.
the simple fact remains that the rules advocate a penalty try and the ref didnt give it.
the sharks should not have put themselves in the situation of needing favourable decisions to win the game but that doesnt make the decision right.
klaar.
8 Mar 2010, 15:40 pm
@Dawn:
Sorry I could not answer immediately about 10 days ago.
I have known for about 3yrs. now that you are a ‘..Stonian as it came out in some talk you had with Saffaguy back then.
Wrt Russel,I know his sister, Nerene better.
To cut a long story shorter Rossoneri simply exposed the greatest whimp for his hypocrisy with his own words from rugby-trashtalkdotcodotor(or=orania).
8 Mar 2010, 15:40 pm
@Hoops: Ive noticed a lot more players are kicking at the ball in the ruck too..
8 Mar 2010, 15:40 pm
@poppa69: Doping at the Olympics, i sometimes wish they would alow that in Rugby, imagine then the whole AB side would look like Dwayne (The Rock) Johnston……..or Pierre Spies
8 Mar 2010, 15:40 pm
@Mick Dundee: 153 yes dad!
8 Mar 2010, 15:41 pm
@RedLion: You’re missing the point here REDLION and it’s all there in your post.
Keo.co.za wrote that “A penalty try is awarded when the referee is in NO DOUBT a try would have been scored.” Key word: NO DOUBT!
As you correctly state: Law 9A1: Methods of Scoring states:
“Penalty Try. If a player would PROBABLY have scored a
try but for foul play by an opponent, a penalty try is
awarded between the goal posts.” Key word: PROBABLY!
The ref does not have to have ABSOLUTELY NO DOUBT the try would have been scored, he simply has to believe the try would PROBABLY have been scored. THERE’S A HUGE DIFFERENCE!
I believe there is NO DOUBT that the try would PROBABLY have been scored!
KEO FAIL!
8 Mar 2010, 15:41 pm
@rangerman: 154 ja Habs and Cowan aren’t the best of buddies after the BaaBaas game.
8 Mar 2010, 15:42 pm
@Transformation: Did you hear us Stormers fan ***** about the Louw try that wasn’t awarded, No!!, but still Marks fcuked up, thats it, lets move on
8 Mar 2010, 15:42 pm
@Philmonk: EPIC FAIL!
8 Mar 2010, 15:44 pm
@poppa69:
Sorreee.
@Gonzo Journalism:
Couldn’t he stick around for 3 runs or whatever it was.
8 Mar 2010, 15:46 pm
@Gonzo Journalism:
imagine it though, ben johnsons on the wings (under 10 secs for a length of the pitch try), Arnie SSwarzenegger would be a normal prop, and any chinese female swimmer would be your scrumhalf..
hell, pack weights would be over two tonnes even hahaha
8 Mar 2010, 15:46 pm
@poppa69: Yeah remember Crowe from 92 world cup (was only 12 then) and then the likes of Mc Millan, Chris Cairns, Ken Ruderford
8 Mar 2010, 15:47 pm
@Dawn: all good Dawnie, just be cheering as on tomorrow, love to see the Aussies lose at cricket…
8 Mar 2010, 15:48 pm
@poppa69: and then the refs would look like WWE wrestling presenters
8 Mar 2010, 15:49 pm
@KZN King Shark: 165 at Keo obviously.
8 Mar 2010, 15:49 pm
@poppa69:
As if.
That Southee is a fine bit of candy, though.
8 Mar 2010, 15:49 pm
@Dawn: I dont know he is a bit soft, never trust a cricketer that wears specs
8 Mar 2010, 15:50 pm
Why are all umpires senior citizens?
8 Mar 2010, 15:51 pm
@Gonzo Journalism:
One of the Zimbo guys also wears specs.
Nearly fell off my couch when the Windies actually WON something on Saturday
8 Mar 2010, 15:52 pm
@Gonzo Journalism: wish I could say I was only 12 then.. best team we ever had was early 80s… never a fan of MacMillan, always thought he was over rated…
John Wright and Bruce edgar opening, martin Crowe at 3, Andrew Jones at 4, jeff Crowe at 5, Jeremy Coney at 6, Richard hadlee at 7, ian Smith at 8, Lance Cairns at 9… current WC chief Martin Sneddon (over rated as a bowler IMO, was always getting smashed), and then the ever reliable Ewen Chatfield at 11…
Chatfield was the most consistent bowler ever, always on the same line and length… was a great foil for the great man Hadlee..
also had the dubious honour of almost being killed by a cricket ball after being hit by a West Indian, cant recall who though…
sorry, trip down memory lane for me
8 Mar 2010, 15:52 pm
@Dawn:
But …….
NO-ONE comes close to that slab of dark chocolate, Chris Gayle.
8 Mar 2010, 15:53 pm
@poppa69:
Courtney Walsh or Curtley Ambrose?
8 Mar 2010, 15:54 pm
@rangerman:
Your spat with RR earlier is illogical and thus pathetic. Keo is stunningly and eminently correct in his interpretation.
Also the crux of the matter with that rule is the ref must be in NO/zero doubt a try would have been scored and from that 30m. distance and the ball not yet in the possession of Kanko NO ONE can be convinced, not even 75% that a try would have resulted.
Worse still, by your own admission, you did not witness this incident, thus what FACTS are you using?.
Conclusion pigheaded emotionalsim and stubbornness on your part. Usual behaviour for you.
Learn to debate(present compelling facts or factors to substatiate) before you put your mouth in it again.
8 Mar 2010, 15:55 pm
Because umpires are usually old people and old people ate used to standing all day waiting for buses.,,
8 Mar 2010, 15:55 pm
@Dawn: Earlier than that I think Dawn, will google..
8 Mar 2010, 15:56 pm
@Dawn:@Dawn: Big square ones like uncle Bob Mugabe !!!!
8 Mar 2010, 15:57 pm
my mistake Dawn, it was an Englishman..
Chatfield scored 13 in a stand of 44 before a short ball from England’s Peter Lever left him in a crumpled heap and it was only the quick thinking of Bernard Thomas, the England physio, that saved his life after he swallowed his tongue.
8 Mar 2010, 15:58 pm
@Gonzo Journalism:
What
8 Mar 2010, 15:58 pm
Missy elliot
You are wrong that is not what the rules say..
Go and read them.
8 Mar 2010, 15:59 pm
Dawn.
Sorry I could not answer immediately about 10 days ago.
I have known for about 3yrs. now that you are a ‘..Stonian as it came out in some talk you had with Saffaguy back then.
Wrt Russel,I know his sister, Nerene, better.
RE: your enquiry earlier, to cut a long story shorter Rossoneri simply exposed the greatest whimp for his hypocrisy with his own words.
ps. My post @159 was awaiting moderation hence my reposting.
8 Mar 2010, 15:59 pm
@Dawn:
It’s a South American fly catcher mev. Dawn. Jammer om so te pla. Just trying to learn the tools of the trade. My other nick was down right silly.
8 Mar 2010, 15:59 pm
@poppa69: Killed by a cricket ball, is that for real???? damb …….then again i suppose if you a pro surfer you wanna go out riding a wave, but a cricket ball, thats just hectic………
8 Mar 2010, 16:00 pm
Greatest kiwi cricketer in recent memory
Mark Greatbatch
8 Mar 2010, 16:01 pm
@Dawn: A zimbo cricketer with big square specs like like his Boss Rob Mugabe !!!!!!
8 Mar 2010, 16:02 pm
@gunther: yeah Greatbatch, that who i was thinking of…….never minded the kiwis in Cricket, always backed them as underdogs
8 Mar 2010, 16:05 pm
@Dawn: 132 he has highlights? I don’t even notice such things
8 Mar 2010, 16:07 pm
Biggie
Dawn always watches the highlights packages..
8 Mar 2010, 16:10 pm
@Gonzo Journalism: post 183 … think it was after that they developed the helmets, remember the big old white ones?
Greatbatch was a fighter, but there were better IMO…
the great Aussie spin bowler Clarrie Grimmet was actually a kiwi, players like Bert Sutcliffe, John reid etc..
8 Mar 2010, 16:11 pm
The crux of the matter is as is printed below:
“Sanction: Penalty kick. A penalty try must be awarded if the offence prevents a try that would probably otherwise have been scored.”
The words “would probably otherwise….” leaves it totally up to the interpretation of the official/s.
He or they need to be thoroughly convinced in their mind/s of that outcome and I have not once seen an official ruling that way from 30 or so mteres out.
Case closed.
Try Afrikaans now.
8 Mar 2010, 16:12 pm
D.K Morrison was alright too…
remember Hadlee saying the greatest cricketer he played with was when he played county cricket in England… Was a SA but cant recall the name, they played together for ten years… had big raps on the guy, said he would have been a superstar in test cricket, but isolation meant he never played tests..
8 Mar 2010, 16:28 pm
@elliott2:
I have actually seen a penalty try awarded from about 40 meters out in a similar incident to kanko’s. It was actually within the last couple of years. Cant remeber if it was 6 nations or super 14.
8 Mar 2010, 16:28 pm
@elliott2: again you attack me without reading properly elliot.
i did witness the incident, i was very logical in my discussion with rulz and we parted ways smiling.
you dont like me, boohoo, let me shed a tear
lets discuss rugby without resorting to insults shall we?
8 Mar 2010, 16:29 pm
ok, hometime, chat laters all.
8 Mar 2010, 16:29 pm
I would like nothing more than to be able to say Keo is wrong and that a penalty try should have been awarded to the Sharks. Honestly, I have been searching for a reasonable argument to substantiate all the media coverage that this incident has gotten, and I simply, and sadly must admit that Keo is correct.
There was no way the ref could have said, even probably that a try would have been scored. With the epic failures we have seen at the Sharks lately, its possible that Kankowski would have taken the pass and cantered in, but, its unfortunately not impossible that he may have stumbled over his own feet or dropped the pass.
So – although Paul Marks made some questionable calls during the game, I hate to say it, and I apologise to my fellow Sharks supporters for letting them down on this, but, he handled the situation with the Beale knock down exactly right.
Sharks need to take the positives from this game, look at what went wrong (two yellow cards for stupid incidents), and move on from there. I personally feel they aren’t far from coming out of this slump, but if they linger on Beale’s deliberate slap down – they aren’t going to go anywhere.
I do still believe that there is a twist coming, and although I dont believe the Sharks can still make the playoffs, I see the Sharks upsetting a couple of home semi-final apple carts come the business end of the season. And then it will be Sharks supporters chance to poke a bit of fun.
For now – say what you like – I stay a Sharks supporter.
8 Mar 2010, 16:31 pm
p.s. “put my mouth in it again”????
i will keep my mouth out of it if you take your foot out of yours, deal?
8 Mar 2010, 16:35 pm
@Sonito: I think I know the try that you speak of, and I think that player was tripped while they were running with the ball in hand with the tryline open in front of them.
It happened in the Heineken Cup if I am not mistaken.
Thats a bit different.
8 Mar 2010, 16:37 pm
With regards to probability, How many times out of ten would Kanko caught that ball and sprinted 30 meters to score?
If any of you muppits think that the probability of him not scoring the try is higher than the probability of him scoring a try then I would like to play poker with you.
Simple statistics 8 OUT 10 times Kanko would of probably scored.
8 Mar 2010, 16:39 pm
@Sonito: 9 times when he’s having a game like that
8 Mar 2010, 16:40 pm
@Dusky:
Well not really, the reasoning that keo is giving is the same. The chasing player could pull a hamstring, be struck by lighting, not able to gather a bouncing rugby ball (much harder than catching a simple pass.
8 Mar 2010, 16:41 pm
@Sonito: You’re right, but 8 out of 10 is 80% chance. Most people would take a 80% chance right ?
However, laws are laws and they are there to be strictly interpreted.
So, if I took a 5 shooter revolver, added one bullet, you stand a 80% chance of getting an open chamber – would you put it to your head and pull the trigger ?
Fact is, you’re right, the probability of Kankowski scoring was higher than not – but, there was still a ‘not’.
Really, you can believe me when I tell you – I am fanatical about the Sharks, but the ref couldn’t have given a penalty try there. Sorry…:-( It hurts me to say it as well. The Sharks lost – end of story.
8 Mar 2010, 16:43 pm
@Big Hit:
Exactly, the bottom line is that the ref did not have the balls to make the call.
Did the Sharks loose because of the call maybe or maybe not who knows the Tahs could of made a comeback like the Chiefs.
8 Mar 2010, 16:46 pm
@Dusky:
Well then there should be no penalty tries awarded in rugby because you can never be 100% sure a try would of been scored.
“However, laws are laws and they are there to be strictly interpreted” you are 100% right and the ref did not interpret the rules correctly because if he did he should not have awarded a yellow card for a knock down.
8 Mar 2010, 16:46 pm
@Sonito: Although I hope Kurtley Beale grows fish hooks from his fingers, and then develops the itchiest bum in history….I just dont see the penalty try….honestly, I wish I could say otherwise. It would make me feel better too.
I do think though that for Waugh to say they had the toughest physical encounter, on their home ground….and to play the Waratahs within 4 points in Sydney says a lot.
I have a feeling we could see the Sharks turn the corner in the next game or two.
8 Mar 2010, 16:48 pm
@rangerman:
My you are touchy of late. Is it because you feel guilty for the absence of some popular bloggers, and widening disrespect since you were exposed many Saturdays ago?
I refer just to the facts(bar 1 minor oversight) of your spat and my take on it and you feel insulted? Clearly you can only object to the word “‘pigheaded’” which qualifies “emotionalism” .
The fact you saw the incident makes you simple more irrational then. Try counter facts to facts in a discussion/debate rather than gutter-like, emotional diatribe.
Yes maybe I need to put MY foot in YOUR mouth so that you can keep your mouth out of it, more regularly.
8 Mar 2010, 16:48 pm
flashback…. Bulls vs Brumbies…Roftus..
Akona dived one the ball in the in-gaol area… certain try…
TMO… “he didn’t have the ball in control”…. stupido….
Andre “ek weet als” Waton explained this useless decision……. die ref het al sy eksamens deurgekom…
8 Mar 2010, 16:49 pm
@Sonito: He actually should not have. Looking at it again, there have been lots of times when intercepts have gone wrong from our side and looked very similar to what Beale did.
Sharks should have got a scrum, or maybe a penalty. Beale should probably not even have been carded.
Stefan could have handled that situation slightly differently though…..slightly better….and it would have been a try for sure
8 Mar 2010, 16:50 pm
i see rangerman is fighting for his right to moan!
WHINE AWAY mzingeli don’t let them shut you up, if keo didn’t think it was an important point he wouldn’t have written about in Business Day! He he.
First it was brown giving the chiefs a dubious try, the kaplan got the runs & pro legoete threw you under the bus & now it’s the incompetent aussie newcomer referee that does you in!
Last year Marks’ colleague ian smith did such a sh*t job calling the cheetahs vs bulls currie cup game that naka drotske wanted to go into the referee’s changeroom after the match and “ask him some questions” but was refused entry!
moan ranger moan!
8 Mar 2010, 16:52 pm
@Staal: Dit wassie Brumbies nie, dit was Hurricanes…..ek onthou…I was at the game, sitting in the corner where Ndungane dived on the ball. It was a certain try.
It was even on the front page of the Pretoria News….and if you added the 4 points to their final log score that year, it inevitably cost the Bulls the home semi-final.
The TMO was bliksem JC Fortuin. Him, and Pro Legota (spelling ?) make equally ‘good’ referees.
8 Mar 2010, 16:54 pm
The penalty, plus the yellow card, to indicate the seriousness of the transgression effected, is the maximum sanction that the official could exact under the circumstances of that incident and he duly did so. He could not red card the player nor award a penalty try under the prevailing rules.
8 Mar 2010, 16:56 pm
@elliott2:
oh shut up you boring old goat
8 Mar 2010, 16:56 pm
@Transformation: This weekends Sharks debacle aside though, you must admit that every team has been on the short end of a blatantly stupid refereeing decision.
As a Sharks supporter I remember such a mess up that is too painful to recall right now…
I guess everyone just wants to see some fairness in the game. Honestly, referees are also human, but sometimes they make really stupid decisions that can, and probably have cost teams matches, and sometimes trophies.
One has to wonder if the Bokke would still have been 2007 World Champs if France weren’t gifted the quarter final against the All Blacks from a blatant forward pass.
8 Mar 2010, 16:57 pm
Mark Keohane and Joel Stransky should be drawn and quartered in front of the Union buildings for unpatriotic behaviour and publically whipped by Julius Malemna.
They are without doubt the two most negative and anti SA critics out there. Leave that to the Aussies, Kiwis and Poms please.
8 Mar 2010, 16:57 pm
@elliott2: I agree. Unfortunately so, but I do agree with you.
Its time the Sharks leave this behind, and play constructive rugby against the Brumbies and win !
8 Mar 2010, 16:58 pm
@Dusky: #213
ok sorry Canes then….
eish – ek was lekker gatvol!
8 Mar 2010, 17:00 pm
@Staal: Me too. You should have heard what people were shouting up to where the TMO was sitting. I think he was security escorted out of Loftus.
8 Mar 2010, 17:03 pm
@Dusky: @216 the best post Ive ever seen on this site.. anytime you are in Sydney, look me up and I will gladly buy you a beer or three
8 Mar 2010, 17:04 pm
@Oubaas2009:
Yeah I laughed hard when Stransky said that “it was not really a spear tackle”.
8 Mar 2010, 17:04 pm
@Dusky:
Good for you as wisdom prevails. For too many others emotionalism rules.
8 Mar 2010, 17:04 pm
@Dusky: # 216
Skop says it is Karma…
8 Mar 2010, 17:04 pm
I actually think this episode will galvanise the Sharks, and would not be surprised at all if they defeat the brumbies next weekend…
8 Mar 2010, 17:06 pm
so the Ab’s must have done someone wrong somewhere… according to Skop.
8 Mar 2010, 17:06 pm
@Sonito: Joel has gone from hero to zero since he became a commentator. I have some real ‘hate’ for him. He is biast against us! I think the Aussies have brain washed him.
8 Mar 2010, 17:08 pm
@Staal: nah, simply law of averages Staal
8 Mar 2010, 17:09 pm
@Oubaas2009:
It would be cool to see Bobby and Joel commentate together, because one is overly biast to SA teams and the other to the International teams.
I hate both of them as commentators.
8 Mar 2010, 17:10 pm
@Staal: Listen boet – you know as well as I do, and we dont have to get into this discussion. After what happened in the 2007 final – Karma owes the Sharks…not the other way around…
8 Mar 2010, 17:11 pm
Sometimes, just sometimes, “you need to forego the popular thing in order to do the right thing” as, for example:
1. the ref. not awarding the penalty try but, instead, giving the penalty
2. the dangerman not keepiong his mouth out of it but, instead, putting his mouth in it again with his emotional diatribe in a stupid spat with the very smart, the ever fair, totally levelheaded and eminently unbiased Rugbyrulz.
8 Mar 2010, 17:14 pm
216 NZ were outgunned by the Frogs plain and simple, ask Jerry Collins he had to cry out of the game as it was too physical, Danny crying on the sidelines tooI It was just time for NZ to go home (with the Aussies) as the big boys went to work.
8 Mar 2010, 17:15 pm
@Sonito: Bobby is not biased in favour of South African teams. He is biased, heavily biased in favour of the Stormers. Its actually funny to listen to his commentary.
8 Mar 2010, 17:15 pm
@Sonito: Joel has a thing against the Sharks that is so overly blatant, its funny !!!
8 Mar 2010, 17:16 pm
@charo:
So says the offensively named one, who really is the OLD goat rotting in darkest Africa because his skills or, more correctly, lack of those cannot carry the day for him anymore in a democratic S.Africa as it did in the apartheid one.
8 Mar 2010, 17:17 pm
@Dusky: #230
n that case is seems that Karma has “left the building” for you oaks…
8 Mar 2010, 17:18 pm
@Big Hit: 232: It was still a forward pass. The only reason I can justify France winning that game was based on how the All Blacks handled the last few minutes.
They were clearly panicked, hacking everything at goal hoping that one drop goal attempt would go over.
The quality team that they are – they should have re-grouped, stayed calm and just agreed to play 5 minutes of good rugby. If they still lost, at least they wouldnt feel like they played the last 5 minutes like a rabbit caught in headlights.
So – yes, based on that, France deserved to win, however…their winning points were still scored from a forward pass. That much is fact.
8 Mar 2010, 17:18 pm
@Big Hit: LOL….. you said that comment @ 5.14 SA Time cause you know the kiwis are in bed already !!!
8 Mar 2010, 17:19 pm
@Big Hit: and here comes the defender of all things Barnesesque… please, the fact they were offside all day, they incurred only 2 penalties with only 30% possession…
crikey, if it was those stats with England playing youd be vehemenantly telling us the injustice of it all..
face it Biggie, the IRB stuffed up appointing an inexperienced ref to one of the biggest games of the year… was very funny witnessing the same french team being controlled under the watchful eye of kaplan in the semi… being rightfully pinged for their infringements..
I await the day when Karma delivers the same to your team in such a situation..
and yes, it wasnt the only reason we lost, but it was an integral part… if you still deny it then I realise you do not have a decent bone in your body..
8 Mar 2010, 17:19 pm
@Staal: 236: It seems that way my brother…it seems that way….*sigh*
8 Mar 2010, 17:20 pm
@elliott2:
hahaha o bigoted one.
so when is your company going to transfer you to some exotic new market?
or are you still cleaning toilets?
8 Mar 2010, 17:21 pm
@poppa69: Yip – the All Blacks were robbed…but, I was disappointed that their class didn’t shine through in the last few minutes.
Instead of just settling down to play All Black rugby for the last few minutes, they panicked….
And when you panic in a fight…you’re gone !
8 Mar 2010, 17:21 pm
Cheers guys… going out to the lapa for a fillet and pap….
eish… lekka!
8 Mar 2010, 17:22 pm
@Staal: Lekker my boet…
8 Mar 2010, 17:25 pm
@Dusky: I agree they did panic, they didnt expect the French to provide such resistance, full credit to Le frogs for that…losing first Carter and then Evans to injury also played a big part, as well as leaving Mauger and Howlett out of the side altogether… selection was a big factor too.. but Biggie just loves it because he knows that his team has never beaten the ABs in a world cup match, and he knows they wouldnt have beaten us in the semi…
8 Mar 2010, 17:26 pm
sharks are hurting after this loss, tough call to make this wknd against the brumbies but i have a feeling the sharks are going to sneak it..kyk net
8 Mar 2010, 17:28 pm
Sorry – got to go..
just seen that Schalla might be in trouble…
cheers
8 Mar 2010, 17:30 pm
LOL Keo is stirring again… he’s loves to stirr things a bit. That’s why we read him…he’s ALWAYS the devil’s advocate! hehehehe PLAYA
8 Mar 2010, 17:31 pm
@charo:
So says the genuinely unsophisticated and uneducated one.
Who needs a company, or a supposed exotic banning, when you already know you are in Paradise and earning at the best university on the continent of Africa which just happens to, doubly, be my Alma Mater also. And it is the wonderful month of March with its little wind and wonderfully warm days.
Now DROOL on you dumb one.
8 Mar 2010, 17:31 pm
@poppa69:
poppa, i think it goes further back than that…a week or two further back when there were press photos of the all blacks frolicking around the pool.
there seemed to be a general impression that this team would take the rwc – they were hot favourites and the best prepared team at the tournament.
hell, even your pm came across to france to lap up the glory.
8 Mar 2010, 17:33 pm
@poppa69: huge pressure next year for the Blacks in their own back yard. If they dont win it, despite what they say, theyl be scared for a very long time. The only real threat to them is the Boks and France, if the boks beat them again at home in the 3nations then theyl believe they could win them at home during the WC
8 Mar 2010, 17:42 pm
@elliott2:
i was at uct in my misspent youth.
the only lecturer that stood out for me was prof francis wilson (economics).
wonder if he is still alive?
instead of being so insular in your little heaven, maybe you should try to get out and earn a real living in the international community.
you might find the competition a little tough without aa/ee though.
8 Mar 2010, 17:45 pm
@Mustard: yep, will definitely give the boks some serious belief, but having won the last few times there I think would have already instilled in the Boks that they can do it… big series the 3Ns this year… I for one would be happy ( perhaps the wrong word), but wouldnt mind them losing this years 3Ns as well… thus handing favouritism to the boks, may be a blessing in disguise.. I truly believe the NZ public wont be as expectant, especially after the last two events..
Charo: to a point I agree with you, but I also believe the players DIDNT think they only needed to rock up to win it…the media all over the world suggested that, so they probably were complacent to a point… but to truly believe they had to just turn up to win, nah, cant buy that argument sorry..
8 Mar 2010, 17:51 pm
@poppa69: If the All Blacks make the final next year, which I believe they will – whoever their opponents are, will be playing for possibly the biggest prize ever in International rugby – to win the World Cup against the All Blacks in the final in New Zealand.
So – there will be pressure on the All Blacks, and huge amounts of inspiration and incentive for whoever their finalist opponents are.
Whoever it is – it will be tough for the All Blacks – despite their home ground advantage.
But – they kind of deserve it. They have been the class side for a long time – they deserve a world cup.
But, the Bokke will be there to make it difficult…for sure
8 Mar 2010, 17:52 pm
@charo:
Stop sucking things from your thumbs and stop fishing.
I have already done research on the continent and am deliberating whether to do so again.
And I am done as there are better things to do.
8 Mar 2010, 17:53 pm
@poppa69:
yes, think the media were a bit slective in those photos to give the impression that the players were just fooling about.
couldn’t imagine graham henry allowing complacency
8 Mar 2010, 18:00 pm
Does anyone know whats up with the pitch at Loftus ? It looks terrible.
8 Mar 2010, 18:11 pm
@Dusky: you may wish to change your belief that they will make the final, I beleive the draw if it goes according to script will see the ABs play the Boks in the semi final..
while I agree there will be huge pressure on the ABs, (there always is anyways, there is a strong legacy to maintain), the expectation of the public will not be as intense as it was in 07 IMO… extremely hopeful rather then expectant..once bitten twice shy is the perfect analogy..
I believe there are only 4 teams this far out who can win the WC, the 3Ns teams and France.. I dont think England have the personnel anymore to be serious contenders…Ireland would be the dark horse IMO
@charo: agree Charo.. But I have to question the cartels wisdom, I seriously think they dropped the ball, choosing players who werent in form and disregarding experienced players proven against the French side… they to me got the makeup of the side horribly wrong that day..
time will tell if they did the right thing retaining henry and letting Deans go…
8 Mar 2010, 18:13 pm
@elliott2:
clearly your research is incomplete if you think the only saffas running around are mercenaries or menial workers.
get your fat arse into some of the subsaharan countries and do some real research you lazy tool
8 Mar 2010, 18:18 pm
The idiot who wrote this can’t see the forest for the trees
8 Mar 2010, 18:19 pm
@charo:
Delusional again, reinforced by more thumb sucking.
8 Mar 2010, 19:15 pm
where is the varsity cup thread?
trying to watch uj vs nmmu but it is too one sided.
where is all this rugby talent in ep?
urban myth i would say
8 Mar 2010, 20:09 pm
@charo: look at this old toppie…what a serial pessimist, you can’t help yourself charo, it is ingrained in your psyche along with other ills that were visited on people in this country! Go and read the thread “greatness beckons for Grey PE” or a similar title, where you will learn that the current administration is effecting change that is being recognised by the high school directors of rugby who have been shipping all the talent from the eastern cape to other provinces. Change is happening in our province and structures are being put in place and they will work. Pessimists like yourself will not derail this change with your inane comments.
Ndiyakonyanya charo! What a pr*ck!
8 Mar 2010, 20:15 pm
it is time for a review system.Captains should be able to
ask for a review of critical decisions (once during each half)
If the TV ref. upholds the field referee’s decision,it stands.
If he overrules the refs decision must be reversed.
8 Mar 2010, 20:26 pm
@Transformation:
hey lightie – getting into a froth?
uj just put 97 points past your local varsity…wtf????
and we are told that there is all this latent talent in ec?
8 Mar 2010, 20:37 pm
@charo: you say you are told, who is telling you? Do yourself a favour before you make poephol of yourself & do an audit of the various rugby academies to see how many boys from EP are in those rugby set-ups. Go and check where former SA Schools captain dewalt potgieter comes from. Where sa u21 player of the year Lionel Cronje comes from.
keep hating sbhanxa, sizobuya ngawe…hahaha
8 Mar 2010, 20:37 pm
Bottom line there are far to many rules which can be (mis) -interpreted by the refs. What on earth was wrong with the old rules of a ball being thrown in square to the hookers to give each side a chance of winning the ball. Now-a-days their is absolutely no reason to have a scrum, let alone all the rules surrounding them
8 Mar 2010, 20:43 pm
@Transformation:
why can’t epru get these boys back?
because epru is a disgrace and riddled with corruption…which is why it has sunk so low in such a short time.
clean up your own backyard and then maybe the good players will stick around.
oh……and stick your xhosa insults right up your jack boyo
8 Mar 2010, 20:48 pm
@posts: lol, are you saying we also need a revised interpretation of the scrum feed laws? I remember being gobsmacked when brendon leornard was pinged twice or thre times [not to sure] by the referee during the tri-nations game in bloemfontein last year
8 Mar 2010, 20:55 pm
@charo: old man, get you reading glasses and comprehend properly this time, i know you’re senile and all that…
Who is the current CEO of ep rugby? How long has he been office? How many scandals have you read about ep rugby during his tenure?
Just answer those questions before prattling on about things you know nothing about!
How corrupt or incompetent is ep rugby compared to the golden lions rugby union?
uguga kakubi mbomb’ akho!
8 Mar 2010, 21:06 pm
@Transformation:
if this new ceo gets the union in order then well and good.
all of sa rugby supporters want to see this happen.
just not holding my breath….that’s all.
and quit the gobbledegook at the end of every post…doesn’t make you look very intelligent.
8 Mar 2010, 21:12 pm
Aha, the waBenzis are afoot
8 Mar 2010, 21:49 pm
only in your convoluted mind would posting isiXhosa come across as unintelligent lmao
I suggested you go and read the article on Grey PE that was posted last week and let go of your parochial ideas…but again i understand you colonial types nithatha kade.
8 Mar 2010, 22:03 pm
@Transformation:
listen lightie, posting in a language that is clearly not understood by the recipient is plainly a schoolyard tactic at trying to be funny.
to me it is churlish and indicates a large degree of immaturity….sorry to say o
8 Mar 2010, 22:04 pm
oh, and since when has grey high been anything else than pretty average in the greater scheme of things?
8 Mar 2010, 22:10 pm
@charo: blah blah blah…i asked you who the ostensibly corrupt CEO of ep rugby is and you haven’t answered, yet you feel entitled to clutch to your prejudiced views, mnxim. Stay over there in Ghana we’re better off without your kind.
8 Mar 2010, 22:16 pm
Apparently my comment is awaiting moderation, so here goes again:
@poppa69:
Hi Poppa,
Not sure where you are based, but did you see the poll in the NZ herald?
It claims 59% of Kiwis expect the ABs to win the next world cup – it seems to me that some people are already building expectations and it’s 18 months out.
8 Mar 2010, 22:20 pm
@Transformation:
you are yabbering away like a frustrated spinster while all the while i am trying to watch the maties/ikeys intervarsity.
having watched the piss poor nmmu get given 97 points, this is a breath of fresh air.
i do not give a toss who the new ep ceo is.
if he starts achieving something i might take a bit of notice.
enough already – ok?
8 Mar 2010, 22:23 pm
haha, transie i see you are flying the flag for the ec even after they just took a BEATING at the hands of a glru feeder
good form man, keep it up. it reminds me of the limpopo mayor this morning saying “responsibility must be shared” for the roads that malemas company built that fell apart lmao! who must share this responsibility?
let me guess, its everyone who steals the players from the ec, not the admin or union there that cant win a vodacom cup game (ok, they beat border by a few points) let alone reach the 1st div of the cc.
elliot, you are truly a halfwit
if you think popularity is my goal, you are sadly misinformed. now take that bee out of yer *** 
8 Mar 2010, 22:26 pm
@Transformation: by the way transie, i will be visiting the wonderful, incomparable kei this weekend.
xolobeni area again, before those aussie ******** rape and pillage it.
it is a light at the end of a long, dark sharks tunnel for me
8 Mar 2010, 22:36 pm
@rangerman:enjoy rangerman!
@rangerman: well if you have read what i have been saying to the senile fool on this thread, not even once have i blamed anyone. The ep rugby problems will be fixed by ep people with this place @ heart.
If some people can support the golden lions who in the past five years only, have managed to not only haemorhage(sp) players but average a no:13 finish in super rugby why can’t i support EP…it is where i am from, can’t change it.
8 Mar 2010, 22:41 pm
@Transformation:
hey, you!
who you calling senile????
what’s your name again?
8 Mar 2010, 22:43 pm
@Transformation: ag charo is a good guy, i am not sure why you guys are slinging punches but he is a credit to sa imo.
if you get so uptight after a few comments about ep, then i must remember what to do next time you start shark bashing
btw, ep are not even close to the lions class mate, they nearly lost to border on the weekend??????????????
a strong ep would be a major bonus for the boks so heres hoping one day they can rise from the ashes.
8 Mar 2010, 22:45 pm
@poppa69: 225 I think you are in La La land my friend. Brumbies are gonna tear us about 3 new ******** on Saturday.
8 Mar 2010, 23:23 pm
@rangerman:what class do the lions possess ranger? a rugby union in GAUTENG to be so ***** is unforgivable…jaque fourie, willem alberts & louis ludik, all had flawed janitor contracts! Such class boet.
Ranger beside EP, liyeyisa lelikhehla!
@charo: what are you going to do with my name? Senility is rogering you…
8 Mar 2010, 23:30 pm
@Transformation:
oh dear, you are really working yourself up into a tizz aren’t you.
sit back, have a cup of tea and calm down.
it is obvious to me that you love to hand it out but ain’t so cool when it comes back.
btw, that last post of mine was a weak attempt at a joke but it went sailing way over your head
8 Mar 2010, 23:38 pm
@charo: I caught it
8 Mar 2010, 23:43 pm
@Big Hit:
well thank goodness – i thought it was too obvious at one stage
8 Mar 2010, 23:57 pm
@charo: there are lot of things that are odius, ahem i meant obvious about you too…but that for another day…
Simathumathu sexhego!
9 Mar 2010, 00:03 am
@Transformation:
well then i guess we are both pretty transparent.
maturity, though, is something acquired over time…..you will get there one day (ask your old man)
9 Mar 2010, 00:06 am
@charo: that courtesy unfortunately you don’t deserve
9 Mar 2010, 00:11 am
@Transformation:
this silly back and forth is going too far.
you are a proud supporter of ep – good for you.
i am a proud supporter of natal/sharks – good for me.
you denigrate natal/sharks on a daily basis – i ignore you.
i denigrate ep rugby – you make a big deal of it and get personal.
see the trend?
9 Mar 2010, 03:57 am
Keo is becoming a spineless Stranksy. Worried about not getting those press perks for criticizing officals.
That was a penalty try do#s. Stop been a like Stranksy *** kisser.
The Sharks were poor and if ever there were 2 teams who deserved to loose then we saw it.
The tahs were to scared to loose and the sharks were too cr@p to win.
Marks was really poor against the sharks. The line out drive was atacked from the side and never through the gate. Watch the games coming up and see the defending sides at the line out(once it is a mall) drving in and around from the side then attacking the ball carrier.
The funniest thing I saw on the weekend was the attacking teams loose forward leaving the line out running behind the defending teams backline passed the startled fullback and then entering the ruck from the side on the opposite side of the field.
9 Mar 2010, 04:07 am
Keo. Man up, if your rugby knowledge is so great than please explain to me why a collapsed scrum would ever be a try if you can never prove the 8th man would not have knocked the ball on or the opposing scrumhalf could not have poached the ball. Don’t hide away from this, i would like to have your expert opinion. You made your name as being a contreversial figure if sa rugby, now prove that you not just trying to further your name again by being contreversial and follow up your comments on the penalty try rules as many people who read your blog are not 100% sure of the rules, yet you claim to be so you owe it to your followers. Please also define a professional foul very close to the try line and how a spilled pass close to the try line would be a worthy penalty try yet a spilled pass 20 meters out would not, even if you had a clear run into the try line. The Sharks if good enough should have won by way more against a poor waratahs side, they didn’t, thats it. But poor reporting like this show people who never played much rugby and are limited on the rules, yet get there name through controversy and that in turn gets them a blog. Please explain as I do no tunderstand your logic, have the balls pal
9 Mar 2010, 04:50 am
Ah! Are you losing your grip again? You could do better than writing such drivel.
9 Mar 2010, 06:16 am
@KevinRack:
#293
Seemed like you pointed out at your own deficiencies?
9 Mar 2010, 09:01 am
Ah. Keo will always be a moron and a pure excuse for a journalist.
Now he tells us the Cheetahs will achieve nothing, because of their history (4 years to be exact), but the Stormers will do great. Based on what? Their 15 year history? Achieving what? Your article is a joke. Biased writing of the top order.
9 Mar 2010, 11:27 am
My 295 was directed at Keo. Where did you find him?
9 Mar 2010, 11:29 am
Mark,
Calls for a penalty try in the last moment of the match were also based on emotion because Marks, according to the laws, was not within his rights to award one. A penalty try is awarded when the referee is in no doubt a try would have been scored.
Wrong.
The key word in the laws of the game is ‘probable’, or that a ‘probable’ try would have been scored if not for unlawful play by the opposition.
There is no reference to distance.
Probably does not mean possible, neither does it mean definate, and given the game situation, it is very probable that a try would have been scored by Kankowski.
9 Mar 2010, 12:38 pm
wow Keo, that’s a funny article.
Knock knock, who is there ??
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