‘Teams want best refs’
10 Mar 2010
Jonathan Kaplan says the coaches and players have opposed the system of selecting neutral referees.
A nerve has been struck with regards to the selection of referees. After the Waratahs’ win over the Sharks last Saturday, there was an outcry of Australian match official Paul Marks.
Firstly, Marks did not award the Sharks – the away team – a penalty try when fullback Kurtley Beale deliberately knocked-on a pass that would’ve given Ryan Kankowski a clear run for the winning score. The Sharks then kicked for the corner but Marks penalised them for obstruction at the resulting lineout.
Sharks head coach John Plumtree has asked Sanzar to review Marks’ performance while the Australian media has quoted skipper John Smit saying his team ‘didn’t get the rub of the green from the referee’.
Kaplan, however, believes this situation has been blown out of context.
‘I think this whole situation has been taken in the wrong way by the Australian media. I don’t believe Smit and Plumtree had a problem with the fact that Marks was an Australian referee. I think their criticism was made in general circumstances,’ Kaplan told keo.co.za.
‘The thing is that the coaches and players have asked for referees to be selected on merit and not on a neutral basis. They want the best referees for the Super Rugby games and we gave them this.’
Kaplan added that referees are also due bad performances.
‘If a neutral referee had to make those decisions in the Sharks’ game, there would be no criticism of not having neutral referees. Then the argument would have been that the ref made poor decisions,’ he said.
‘But just like players and coaches have poor games on the field, the referees also make bad calls sometimes.’
After four weeks of the new law interpretations, Kaplan said he is in favour of them.
‘With these various tweaks in the application of the law, attacking rugby has flourished. In the past, the defending teams were favoured too much. But things have balanced out. Instead of the constant kick-chase method being used, teams are encouraged to keep the ball in hand.’
Kaplan did, however, add that it will take more time for these law interpretations to be established.
‘This system is a product still in process. It’s still too short to say that everything is perfect now, it will take more time for players, coaches and referees to get this is into their system. Every week, referees are communicating with teams after matches to discuss various decisions and situations, so everything will get better.’
With the World Cup coming up, a question of which laws will be implemented comes to mind. But Kaplan believes this will be sorted out soon.
‘Remember, the laws haven’t changed. It’s just the matter of interpretation,’ he said. ‘I still speak the same rugby language whether I’m reffing a Six Nations match or Super 14 game.
‘Obviously some things will need to be refined. I believe scrums and the engagement will be some of the areas reviewed. There are far too many penalties being awarded at the scrum in the Super 14.’
By Gareth Duncan
258 Comments
10 Mar 2010, 08:23 am
Anzac Spirit
10 Mar 2010, 08:40 am
thats why the Bulls have 4 SA refs this weekend, gees, conspiracy or what…seems theyve had a SA ref EVERY week…
10 Mar 2010, 08:48 am
Is there actually a good referee any where in the world at the moment?!?! It would be interesting if there where half as many stats kept on refs as there are on players. I saw Steve Walsh refing a match recently, I think it may have been Brumbies vs Lions. Just by reading his body language, you could see very clearly that when he penalised the Lions, a strong stern warning was lashed out and he was making a very big point come across that he was the boss. Thats good, but when ever he penalised the Brumbies, he looked like it was a shame, that he actually had to penalise them and he gave a very much more friendly matey kind of impression. Terrible. All players want and fans want from referees is consistency and impartiality.
I would actually prefer to play with a ref who is rubbish, but rubbish to both sides, rather then someone like Steve Walsh, who I actually think is quite a talented ref, but unfortunately has a huge ego and something against all teams non Australasian.
10 Mar 2010, 08:50 am
Anzac Day is a national day of remembrance in Australia and New Zealand, and is commemorated by both countries on 25 April every year to honour members of the Australian and New Zealand Army Corps (ANZAC) who fought at Gallipoli in Turkey during World War I. It now more broadly commemorates all those who d served in military operations for their countries………and now on the rugby fields !!!!!
10 Mar 2010, 08:56 am
@HongKongSlong:
i don’t think there is as much bias as we’d all like to think. a team that consistently offends will end up losing the refs patience, likewise the dominant/more disciplined team will get the rub of the green.
there does however seem to be a certain level of incompetence and inconsistency across the board – most notably among the newer aussie refs less used to this level of competition.
we’re trained to only see the inconsistencies against our own teams, because fans are more biased than the refs they accuse.
there are panels that review refs performances and one must trust that these are allowed to function and function correctly. if refs are consistently inconsistent then they will hopefully be ‘benched’ and come semi’s time only those consistent refs will be selected.
10 Mar 2010, 08:58 am
Funny how a ref always has a bad day when he’s blowing for his home team..?
10 Mar 2010, 08:59 am
@Storm outta hell:
wayne barnes wasn’t blowing a game involving england
10 Mar 2010, 08:59 am
@Gonzo Journalism: What d’ya call a sheep tied to a post down under..?…a Playstation
10 Mar 2010, 08:59 am
@HongKongSlong: In the Brumbies v. Lions game – did you see Steve Walsh wink at the Brumbies front row knowingly soon after he has sent Buys to the sin bin!
Steve Walsh was a **** referee when he was sober. Steve Walsh was a **** referee when he was drunk. Steve Walsh the reformed alcoholic is a **** referee
10 Mar 2010, 09:00 am
@munkiboi: What about Walsh’s Wink..?
10 Mar 2010, 09:02 am
Steve Walsh does tend to buddy-buddy with one team, and quite obviously so. It’s hard to watch. I’d say Mark Lawrence and Jonathan Kaplan are probably the pick of international refs at the moment, with that little Welshman Owens near the bottom of the pile.
10 Mar 2010, 09:02 am
@poppa69: there are 4 SA refs on the elite merit panel, 3 kiwis and 1 convict. The problem is with the crappy reserve convict refs like your cousin Marks.
10 Mar 2010, 09:04 am
Week-in week-out, year-in year-out, decade-in decade-out, the same problem exists: referees have too much power and are in the limelight, usually more so than any of the players on the field. How dumb can we be in allowing this continue.
Changes have been made for the better, with the introduction and expansion of the use of the TV referee. But these changes are too slow in coming. The IRB is depending on the referees to make the changes. They’re not about to give up their power, even though they themselves are at sufferance of it. Their Ego’s won’t let go that easily.
The IRB’s Executive Committee has to take charge, make some empowered decisions, and issue directives.
The solutions are easy. They’re not rocket science:
1. Give each side two or three appeals per game.
2. Add another referee on the field. One person cannot possibly see everything being expected of the current referees. Synergy of minds is a powerful things.
3. Give linesmen the power to rule on offsides.
4. Add aerial cameras at all venues, to assist with the appeals.
If you insist on moving at a snail’s pace, IRB, then start with the first and fourth changes. On their own they will produce significant positive changes in the reliability of results.
10 Mar 2010, 09:06 am
… and as the champions, the Bulls get the best refs. My team will get the crapry reserve refs. This must change.
10 Mar 2010, 09:07 am
I wonder if there are now any doubts after the Sharks debacle last weekend? You cannot change your humanity! While I don’t think that refs cheat purposefully, in their sub-conscious they must prefer the home team to do well.
10 Mar 2010, 09:11 am
@RedLion: Your team must play better before they start making demands
10 Mar 2010, 09:12 am
@poppa69:
You always seem to be trying to deny the Bulls their deserved wins and top of the table status
I suppose ANZAC refs and injuries are the only way to stop them.
10 Mar 2010, 09:12 am
Bulls awards after the Waratahs game
**************************************************************
Gary Botha was named Bumble Bee by the Vodacom Bulls management for his efforts against the Waratahs in the Vodacom Super 14 match at Loftus Versfeld a week ago.
This award is made by management to the player who showed extraordinary effort during the match.
Botha battled with flu the whole week leading up to the game, still played 65 minutes and made a crucial turnover on the Bulls line as the Waratahs attacked furiously just before the half time whistle.
He also contributed to a good scrumming effort by the pack and a 100% line-out performance by the Bulls.
The Bulls has a week off after the 48-38 win and management only met on Monday to review the match.
Other winners were:
Bison (most cleans): Deon Stegmann (14 in 32 min), Derick Kuün (21 in 52 min).
Sniper (most tackles): Wynand Oliver 18
Hitman (biggest tackle): Danie Rossouw
Ant (best back): Morné Steyn
Workhorse (highest work rate): Derick Kuün
10 Mar 2010, 09:13 am
@Storm outta hell:
what wink? someone makes a joke now everyone thinks its fact?
repeat a rumour often enough its still not fact.
if there is eveidence someone needs to stick it on youtube for us all to see.
if its true, walsh’s ref career is finished.
10 Mar 2010, 09:17 am
Why is Plum and Smith asking for a review on Marks perfomance, Keo has already told us that Kanko would have pulled a hamstring on the unopposed to joke to the try line
10 Mar 2010, 09:18 am
@munkiboi: ******, after Walsh showed Buys the yellow. Then he winked at the convict front row … fact. Go and watch the video for yourself.
10 Mar 2010, 09:21 am
Isn’t it funny how Steve Walsh lost his job a referee for New Zealand, because he was a disgrace and then got snapped up by the aussies! He wouldn’t have been hired anywhere else in the world.
10 Mar 2010, 09:21 am
@munkiboi: If you saw the wink you would agree that it was a conspiring gesture made at the Brumbies front row after sending off Buys…a diabolical scene from someone who’s supposed to remain neutral…methinks Walsh is a few braincells short from all the years of reffing rugby in an alchoholic stupor..!
10 Mar 2010, 09:25 am
@XhosaKid:
10 Mar 2010, 09:25 am
@katman: Kaplan is not so fair. He clearly has it in for the Cheetahs. He ripped them off at the CC Final and would have done the same in the Sharks match in Durban in this years S14.
10 Mar 2010, 09:30 am
@Storm outta hell: You know why the ANZAC fans don’t take their woman to the game………..because they eat all the grass on the pitch!!!!!
10 Mar 2010, 09:33 am
@Gonzo Journalism:
10 Mar 2010, 09:34 am
Storm, in future someone should just slip a bottle of Johnny into Walshy the liquor-pig’s changeroom!
10 Mar 2010, 09:34 am
@Storm outta hell:
Definition of a taxidermist = a person that stuffs animals
Definition of a taxidermist down under = just a normal bloke
10 Mar 2010, 09:34 am
@rossoneri: I like Kaplan, but he has been a bogey ref for the Cheetahs of late.
In the final, when Mapoe clearly caught the ball fairly in the air, and poor Hougie went tumbling to the ground he penalised Mapoe for playing the man in the air… it was a critical decision, a strong attacking position turned in to a penalty kick allowing the Bulls to clear.
Don’t claim it was the cause of the Cheetahs losing, but such calls at critical times, turns the momentum of matches.
10 Mar 2010, 09:34 am
@munkiboi:
THE WINK IS A FACT – not a rumour!!!!!!!!
go and see for yourself..
www[dot]sharksworld[dot]co[dot]za/2010/03/08/you-know-how-to-whistle-dont-you-steve-you-just-put-your-lips-together-and-blow/
cut and past the link and replace the [dot] with a .
10 Mar 2010, 09:36 am
The only way to sort these refs out is to make them wear an shock collar that gives them a burst of serious voltage everytime a television official judges them to have made a bad call…
Our pal marks would have ended the tahs game looking like jack Nicholson in one flew over the cuckoo’s nest ..
10 Mar 2010, 09:36 am
interesting regarding walsh. cant see how it can be justified if its true.
any comments from kiwi or oz posters on this one??
10 Mar 2010, 09:40 am
@Cheetah 4 Eva:
Congrats…
Your team played really well this weekend…
Sorry about Brussow, but hope they can keep up their intensity…
10 Mar 2010, 09:42 am
Truth is that Football refs get linched by angry mods in Latan America for less then that!!!!
there if a ref F’s up……he has a mules head nailed to his front door in the morning
OH !!!!! if only !!!!!
10 Mar 2010, 09:42 am
@munkiboi: did you view the link?
10 Mar 2010, 09:44 am
@Gonzo Journalism: Walsh will probably think the mule’s head is his girlfriend.!
10 Mar 2010, 09:46 am
@Cheetah 4 Eva: @30, No, that wasn’t Kaplan, it was that stupid Aussie ref that Andre Watson was giving a trial to, he blew Mapoe for having jump so high he farted at poor Houggie’s face, at Loftus nogal, Mapoe was wrong, He shouldn’t humiliated a “future bok” like that..
However, as a stormers fan, I’m glad the blokes at Griquas sorted out Willie Doos for, I never knew klippies and coke was that effective
10 Mar 2010, 09:47 am
@brains_trust:
checked the article. would prefer to see it on video.
10 Mar 2010, 09:50 am
@brains_trust: That article doesn’t show much. Divorce a still image from its context and you can communicate what you like.
@Gonzo Journalism: It is a bit embarasing that you are calling for refs to be murdered if they make a mistake. It is only rugby, get some perspective.
10 Mar 2010, 09:50 am
@munkiboi: Gotta see it to believe it…it’s a Shame..!!
10 Mar 2010, 09:50 am
@Storm outta hell: LOL…..we should start an underground commentating set of each game played down under, just tune into 73.27 FM for real uncensored commentary…..after all hearing SS commentators is as boring as watching two bricks mate!!!!
10 Mar 2010, 09:53 am
@WOLFMAN21: PS it is only figurative speech………dry your eye and get a sense of humor!!!
10 Mar 2010, 09:54 am
wonder what o’brien thinks of steve’s wink?
hope this goes further and the plonker gets expelled once and for all
10 Mar 2010, 09:57 am
@Blouste: Cheers Blouste, it will be great, if the Cheetahs can keep the intensity, and actually win two games in a row…
I know I have been a bit circumspect of the Stormers , but they have upped their game a tad…
Hope the Bulls keep their form, and win handsomely this weekend.
Jip Brussow is a blow, but I reckon, as long as Juan stays fit, they will be ok… I reckon Floors will be a good replacement
10 Mar 2010, 10:01 am
@Cheetah 4 Eva: That number 8 of yours, Viljoen has looked very good.
10 Mar 2010, 10:02 am
@Cheetah 4 Eva: Yeah…nothin’ wrong with your loose trio…gonna be a huge match up between Juan and Schalk next week..hopefully no injuries there ’cause the guys will really be laying their bodies on the line..!
10 Mar 2010, 10:03 am
@Cheetah 4 Eva:
Yes, losing Brussow should’nt pose any real problems for the Cheetahs…
Still say ,they must just get the right mindset…( and keep it
)
Hope they do well though…
10 Mar 2010, 10:04 am
@Cheetah 4 Eva: # 45..
eish .. het jul nie iemand anders as Kabamba nie…
Hendro beseer?
10 Mar 2010, 10:17 am
@Staal: Hi Staal, hy het haarsingskudding gehad, maar ek **** hy het vir die Voda span gespeel, so hy is seker reg.
As hy begin, en dan later karamba kabamba opbring, kan dit help…
Daar is ook ‘n paar jong manne wat goed deurkom, Wesley Wilkens wat vir Maties gespeel het, en daai Johan wessells wat laas jaar in Brussow se plek in die CC gespeel het..
10 Mar 2010, 10:18 am
I think it’s the first time there has been some good chat between the different supporters….cheetah4eva and blouste. Great to see not all supporters are totally blind and are able to support the other SA teams.
10 Mar 2010, 10:20 am
@Cheetah 4 Eva: Yes, and the Habana forward pass from Fourie du Preez that resulted in try.
10 Mar 2010, 10:23 am
seeing as its open season on sheep jokes, think I’ll return serve…
what do you call a SA who sleeps with a different lady every night?
A Mortician!!
Whats the number one selling Perfume in SA on Valentines Day?
Embalming Fluid…
10 Mar 2010, 10:25 am
@cheetah jou lekker ding:
We should support all the SA teams, except when they play the mighty BULLS
…
But some of the poor performances by SA teams are just as frustrating for me as I reckon it is for their supporters…
SA teams make it a lot easier for themselves if they all deny the NZ and Aussie teams log points on a regular basis…
10 Mar 2010, 10:25 am
@cheetah jou lekker ding: Like I said on a thread last week..I play superbru with my head but watch the match with my heart so strongly support all local sides…makes the local derbies quite interesting too..
10 Mar 2010, 10:26 am
@poppa69:
Quick to jump onboard hey…
10 Mar 2010, 10:27 am
@poppa69: Not funny…most Saffas don’t even know what a Mort…??…is
10 Mar 2010, 10:28 am
all the teams want the best refs?
but then what will poor little marks do with his weekends?
10 Mar 2010, 10:31 am
@Blouste: That’s it….during the local derbies there will not ever be any sympathy for another local team, but when they are playing the dude’s from down-under, there is nothing more annoying than another saffa enjoying a local loss.
10 Mar 2010, 10:32 am
@Storm outta hell: really, with your murder rate they should all know what a morgue and mortician is…
10 Mar 2010, 10:35 am
@poppa69:
I went with a Sharks win last weekend and despite that you still could’nt overtake me on superbru…
10 Mar 2010, 10:37 am
@poppa69:
Q) Why can’t you circumcise a South African?
A) Because there is no end to the pricks.
10 Mar 2010, 10:37 am
@poppa69: Stop being so morbid…everyone knows sheepshagger jokes are far funnier and far more realistic…like they just touched a nerve
10 Mar 2010, 10:39 am
@Storm outta hell: How do (insert nation here) find sheep in long grass?
Delightful.
10 Mar 2010, 10:41 am
@WOLFMAN21:
10 Mar 2010, 10:43 am
@cane: he he, no end to them pricks
10 Mar 2010, 10:44 am
@Blouste: hahaha yeah I know, just lulling you into a false sense of security
@Storm outta hell: geees, so its only SA’s that are allowed to make jokes?? Ive heard all the sheep jokes before and theyre not funny either..
as for more realistic?
Fact: A SA was caught sleeping with Dead Bodies, A NZ has never been caught sleeping with sheep (much more careful see)..
guess I know what struck a nerve, but a dead body wouldnt flinch once you hit its nerve either…
10 Mar 2010, 10:45 am
What do you call a Saffa in a suit?
The Defendant.
10 Mar 2010, 10:46 am
@poppa69: You do know a lot about the reactions of a dead body…and based on your previous statement about your expertises at not getting caught sleeping with sheep, it does make me wonder what you get up in your spare time!
10 Mar 2010, 10:46 am
An ventriloquist visiting New Zealand walks into a small town and sees a local sitting on his porch patting his dog. He figures he’ll have a little fun.
Ventriloquist: “G’day Mate! Good looking dog, mate. Mind if I speak to him?”
New Zealander: “The dog doesn’t talk, stupid.”
Ventriloquist: “Hey dog, how’s it going old mate?”
Dog: “Doin’ alright.”
New Zealander: (extreme look of shock)
Ventriloquist: “Is this Kiwi your owner?”, pointing at New Zealander.
Dog: “Yep”
Ventriloquist: “How does he treat you?”
Dog: “Real good. He walks me twice a day, feeds me great food, and takes me to the lake once a week to play.”
New Zealander: (look of disbelief)
Ventriloquist: “Mind if I talk to your horse?”
New Zealander: “Uh, the horse doesn’t talk either…I think.”
Ventriloquist: “Hey horse, how’s it going?”
Horse: “Cool.”
New Zealander: (extreme look of shock)
Ventriloquist: “Is this your owner?” (pointing at New Zealander)
Horse: “Yep”
Ventriloquist: “How’s he treat you?”
Horse: “Pretty good, thanks for asking. He rides me regularly, brushes me down often, and keeps me in the barn to protect me from the elements.”
New Zealander: (total look of amazement)
Ventriloquist: “Mind if I talk to your sheep?”
New Zealander: “The sheep’s a liar.
10 Mar 2010, 10:46 am
Who do all the Miss SA’s marry foreigners?
because the locals are all dead roots
10 Mar 2010, 10:47 am
@cane: What does a judge say to a Kiwi rugby player in a suit?
Guilty as charged.
10 Mar 2010, 10:49 am
@katman: That is so funny
10 Mar 2010, 10:50 am
@cane: A defendant……LOL
thats actualy funny, i like it
10 Mar 2010, 10:51 am
isnt it funny, Saffas make all these jokes about every other nationality that visits here, and they are supposed to just laugh along with the Saffas…
make a joke about Saffas and they cant handle it..
not a good look guys, rather sad in fact, and does give credence to the old bully stereotype…
10 Mar 2010, 10:51 am
@katman:
10 Mar 2010, 10:52 am
What do you say to a kiwi with a good looking girl on his arm
nice tattoo !!!!
10 Mar 2010, 10:52 am
@poppa69:
Are you dead serious Popps !
The Saffas are engaging in Necrophilia.(they will have to look it up).
It surprises me not.
But it does disgust me nonetheless.
10 Mar 2010, 10:53 am
I also took up the whistle every now and again and have met Kaplan, Watson, Lawrence etc personally. They are great guys and have excellent rugby brains. Freek Burger was the person in charge of referees when I was still in it, and his philosophy was that you ref the law as it is written. He was against any attempts by the powers that be to make rugby more attractive by altering interpretations of laws. The fact is that, however much you alter the interpretations, attractive rugby is the responsibility of the players; not the referees or the laws. If negatively inclined teams find ways to curb attacking teams within the laws, then it is the responsibility of the latter to find ingenious ways of countering that – within the laws. This is how the game evolves and this is how you create players who think for themselves on a rugby field.
The IRB is putting the cart before the horses by continually altering interpretations because the law is not applied as it is written. I have posted before about the tackle law where team A’s player is tackled and his teammates clean out the ensuing ruck. The ball lies under the feet of one of the supporting players of team A who stands with his hands on the pile of players who were involved in the tackle and the cleanout – he is not bound to them. All of team B’s players have got to their feet and are spread out over the breadth of the field to defend.
According to the laws, this ball may be played by anyone because there is no phase and there are no offside lines. It is not a tackle because the definition for a tackle is a player who is brought to ground and is held by an opposition player. It is not a ruck because the definition of a ruck is two players, one from each side, bound over the ball while on their feet with the ball on the ground. Not one of these phases with the mandatory offside lines are relevant here.
Isaac Ross was sinbinned against the Boks in last year’s 3N by Nigel Owens for playing the ball in this situation and it was deemed a professional foul. He was well within his rights to play the ball. It happens every Saturday and is done by every referee – there is no ruck, but they apply the ruck laws and offside lines regardless. The result is phase play, bashing up and a focus on defence. It neutralises the space on the field for backs to do their thing because forwards are not committing to the “ruck” because the ruck laws are not implemented. Imagine what would happen if the ruck was reffed properly; i.e. you have to have players from both teams bound over the ball with the ball on the ground. The team with the fastest, strongest and fittest forwards will then have the upper hand. It will make the ruck a contest and the team with the higher number of players at the ruck will win the contest. This will create more space on the field because there will be fewer people present in the backline.
My point: apply the law as it is written and the rest will sort itself out.
My conspiracy theory is that the rest of the world do not want us to apply these laws in the right way as it will be to our advantage with our mobile, strong forwards and our gifted loose forwards who are as fast and as skilled as backline players. Australian rugby is under threat from other sports codes, we know that, and for this reason they want to make the game more of a spectacle and they are doing it by subtly making the great game of rugby conform more and more to rugby league – a style that suits them and not us.
Applying the laws as they are written will also highlight poor referees as it makes the grey areas of interpretation less of an issue and knowledge of the laws become the focus – a standard that can be measured
10 Mar 2010, 10:54 am
@poppa69: Hey..I like a good joke just like the next guy…just find sheepshagger jokes funnier than dead guy one’s…
10 Mar 2010, 10:55 am
@cane: dead serious Cane…
10 Mar 2010, 10:57 am
A NZ man finally makes his fortune and is having his dream house bulit. As he talks to the architect on how he wants the house built he says, ‘See that tree there, don’t cut it down because under that tree I made love for the first time.’
The architect says he understands the sentimental value of the tree and he will design the house so that the tree isn’t harmed.
Then the man says, ‘And you see that tree over there, I don’t want it cut either, because her mother stood there and watched as we made love.’
The architect could hardly believe his ears,’That’s incredible, what did her mother say?’
To which the man replies,’Baaaaaa.”
10 Mar 2010, 10:59 am
I bet those Okes over on Wugby Talk don’t tell sheepshagger jokes.
Actually………….I bet they don’t joke at all.
10 Mar 2010, 10:59 am
New-Zealand…
Where men are men, and sheep are nerveous…
10 Mar 2010, 11:00 am
SANZAR need to revert back to ‘neutral referees” as soon as possible. The current situation is creating the perception that “hometown referees” are favouring home sides. This perception is damaging both the image of Super rugby and the credibility of SANZAR referees. Unfortunately referees, players, coaches and the media are fuelling this ever growing fire.
Officiating a rugby match is not an exact science and therefore some measure of understanding needs to be given towards referees. The referee needs to make split second decisions on rules that can be interpreted in any number of ways and therefore one can understand that you will not always agree with every call a referee makes. One can also understand that a good referee is a referee that finds the balance between blowing to the letter of the law and allowing some leniency in order to let the game flow. But, CONSISTENCY is what every player, coach and spectator can and should expect from referees.
Let’s look at Paul Marks’ penalty against the Sharks in the second last line-out of the match. Yes, if you look at the line-out closely, one can agree with Marks’ interpretation that the Jannie du Plessis was obstructing. But, if Paul Marks was consistent he should have penalised the Waratahs for the exact same offence one minute later. In fact, if Marks was consistent he should’ve penalised both teams on numerous occasions throughout the match. So, why did Marks award that penalty at that particular moment? His inconsistency has created the perception of an Aussie ref helping out an Aussie side on the brink of being beaten. This is the same for all SANZAR referees.
In this case the players aren’t helping. Phil Waugh has been complaining about referees in South Africa for the past two weeks, saying that they are taking away the contest in the game, not giving them the rub of the green, etc. On Saturday he however states that the referee had a fantastic game and got everything spot-on. The truth however is that Paul Marks wasn’t much better or any worse than any of the referees that officiated their games in South Africa. The only difference is that on Saturday the Waratahs won and the 50/50 decisions went their way. Phil Waughs’ critique of South African referees and subsequent praise of Australian referees are just adding fuel to the fire. The same applies to the way the Sharks have been handling themselves in press conferences.
The same goes for the media on both sides of the Atlantic. Match reports from SA suggest the Sharks were cheated, those from Australia that Marks got it spot on. The question I have is whether the same decision by a NZ referee would have sparked the same emotional response from players, coaches and spectators? The current situation is damaging the image of Super 14 rugby and the integrity of our referees and need to be addressed as soon as possible.
10 Mar 2010, 11:00 am
@poppa69: In the interest of a cultural exchange, perhaps you can hook up a couple of dead sheep and invite some of the bloggers on this over for a “good time”? After the spit roast, you can have another spit roast.
10 Mar 2010, 11:02 am
A NZ man and his dog are shipwrecked onto a deserted island. After a few days he decides to reconnoiter the island. He discovers that the only other inhabitants are sheep. He recalls how his farm buddies would brag how they would screw sheep for kicks and he says to himself: ‘I’ll never be that desperate.’
Sooooo, a few days later he can’t get those sheep out of his mind, and soon he’s sneaking up on the flock. Just as he is about to pounce on a really cute one, the dog grabs his leg and won’t let go. He snaps to, and thanks the dog for keeping him from making a fool of himself. This same scene happens every night for a month and the guy is really getting pissed at the dog.
Suddenly one day, the man spies a liferaft bobbing in the surf. In the raft is a beautiful young girl, half dead but alive. He takes her back to his hut revives her and nurses her to health. After a few days the girl is feeling fine, and that evening a rush of gratitude sweeps over her….
She confronts the man: ‘I owe you my life. I’m yours forever. I’ll do anything you want’
‘Anything?’
‘Anything!!’
‘OK, hold that dog for ten minutes!!!’
10 Mar 2010, 11:02 am
A SA walks into a bar with the biggest grin on his face, asks the bartender to line him up six shots of tequila because hes celebrating..
he then proceeds to down all six shots one after the other…
Bartender says to him, what are you celebrating?
SA says “my first *******..”
Bartender says “lekker, here let me give you another shot on the house..”
SA says “no no no no, if 6 wont get rid of the taste, I dont think 7 will either”
10 Mar 2010, 11:02 am
Idiots.
10 Mar 2010, 11:03 am
Further to my post 83 above.
My post was/is total ****.(as usual).
Superbull and Groot are over there (Rugby-Talk), and they can be seriously funny.
10 Mar 2010, 11:03 am
@poppa69:
Necrophilia and crime is not restricted to one country only.
10 Mar 2010, 11:04 am
@WOLFMAN21: nothing like sloppy seconds huh wolfman, is that what youre after???
10 Mar 2010, 11:04 am
@poppa69: This is Africa mate…not for sissies…it runs red with blood…and yeah we got more than our fair share of depraved maniacs..hell,some of them are running the country,but don’t try and deprive us of a good sheepshaggin’ joke
it makes us rugby loving public’s day..!!
10 Mar 2010, 11:04 am
Wolfman
A self-basting spit roast ?
10 Mar 2010, 11:05 am
Morning Dawn…
10 Mar 2010, 11:05 am
@poppa69: I would have turned down your invitation, I’m not into that sort of thing!
10 Mar 2010, 11:06 am
@cane:
Then go there and hose yourself, why don’t you.
Go post some of your jokes there.
10 Mar 2010, 11:07 am
@poppa69:
And you can join him.
RT is waiting.
10 Mar 2010, 11:07 am
when the sharks say they want the best refs the mean Pro Legoete, Paul Marks & Keith Brown.
The question is, which other SA team in this year’s competition has had any of these refs handle their games except the sharks?
10 Mar 2010, 11:08 am
Since when has this become a xenophobia site?
10 Mar 2010, 11:08 am
@Dawn:
You got out on the wrong side of the bed again this morning?
10 Mar 2010, 11:09 am
cheetahs: pro handled highlanders game…verdict?
10 Mar 2010, 11:09 am
They will now have a name for the 5-6 play-off at the world cup….will call it the Bledisloe-cup
10 Mar 2010, 11:10 am
@Dawn: geees Dawn, defender of all things SA… if someones going to degrade my country Im going to return serve…
the amount of kiwi/aus bashing on this site is pathetic, it only proves that hatred is still very much part of the SA psyche…
10 Mar 2010, 11:10 am
@Dawn:
Suddenly all of the Saffas are experts on necrophilia.
10 Mar 2010, 11:10 am
Some of my best friends have Ozzie and Kiwi friends
10 Mar 2010, 11:11 am
@Blouste:
What’s your beef.
I never spoke to you.
Unless you appreciate the implication that SA is the necrophiliac capital of the world.
10 Mar 2010, 11:12 am
@poppa69:
Come now.
It’s just some lite hearted bantering…nothing serious…
10 Mar 2010, 11:12 am
@Dawn: but you laugh at people claiming NZs the sheep rooting capital.. lovely double standard there..
10 Mar 2010, 11:13 am
@Dawn:
Read my post 107….same applies…
10 Mar 2010, 11:13 am
@cane: Is he related to Godzillia – or is that Godzilla. Think I have got it all wrong.
10 Mar 2010, 11:14 am
@Dawn: Chill dude!!!!
10 Mar 2010, 11:15 am
@poppa69: Hey buddy – the world makes jokes about sheep and the Kiwis. Calm down! Its a joke not the truth.
10 Mar 2010, 11:17 am
@cheetah jou lekker ding:
Dawn is a lady…
10 Mar 2010, 11:18 am
@Blouste: Really!!!
10 Mar 2010, 11:19 am
@poppa69:
“hatred is still very much part of the SA psyche…”
Yes.
It is.
We are a bunch of murderous, hate-filled thugs.
Happy?
10 Mar 2010, 11:19 am
@Bill Reyts:
lol……………….that’s the spirit.
10 Mar 2010, 11:19 am
We have a lot of jokes in South Africa at the moment. The biggest is Julius Malema and we laugh at him.
10 Mar 2010, 11:20 am
@poppa69:
I don’t find sheep rooting jokes at all funny.
Don’t assume things and paint everyone with the same brush.
10 Mar 2010, 11:20 am
@cane:
10 Mar 2010, 11:20 am
@Bill Reyts:
There is such a fine line between Malema being a joke or just a realy sad person…
10 Mar 2010, 11:20 am
@Bill Reyts: Or is it?
In all seriousness, every nation has stereotypical jokes aimed against them which aren’t true. One of those which has stuck is that the Welsh/Aussies/Kiwis have been known to fornicate with sheep. Clearly this is note true of all Welsh/Aussies/Kiwis, but it is still fun to joke about.
This one about SA being the necrophiliac capital of the world is new, but I doubt it will stick!
10 Mar 2010, 11:21 am
A NZ man walks down the street with 2 sheep on a leash…
Another NZ man passes him and says: “Good day mate, gonna shear them…”
To which the first man replies: “No way mate, get your own…”
10 Mar 2010, 11:21 am
@Blouste: or a really scary and dangerous person!
10 Mar 2010, 11:22 am
@Dawn: yep, easy to stereotype isnt it, I see you may have finally understood my point..
10 Mar 2010, 11:23 am
@WOLFMAN21: Mate you preaching to the converted. I laugh at jokes cause that what they are.
10 Mar 2010, 11:25 am
@poppa69: On a serious matter. What is the 69 next to your nic mate?
10 Mar 2010, 11:25 am
@poppa69:
I have no need to “understand your point”.
We not all dumb twats here.
I have never ever posted those stupid jokes here but you have.
And you revel in it.
10 Mar 2010, 11:26 am
@WOLFMAN21: He is mince mate! A joke – in a corner and like jack horner.
10 Mar 2010, 11:27 am
@Dawn:
10 Mar 2010, 11:28 am
@Dawn: Not only are we a bunch of murderous, hate-filled thugs, we also deal in blood diamonds and collect our meals of the back of a UN truck
Ayoba-Yoba-Yo !!!!
10 Mar 2010, 11:29 am
@Dawn: ok, so if I understand correctly, SA’s are allowed to post jokes but Kiwis arent? should we few international visitors not be able to laugh at our hosts? the way they laugh at us?
no, we’re supposed to sit here and laugh at all the extremely unfunny jokes about us, yet when we post one or two back its taboo?
10 Mar 2010, 11:30 am
@Gonzo Journalism: Seriooooooooouuuuuuuuuuuusssssssssss.
10 Mar 2010, 11:30 am
Poppa
Sloppy seconds indeed
I think you have the wrong window open…
10 Mar 2010, 11:30 am
@fsjakes: I agree with you. It’s the perception as much as anything. If there are no obvious links to any side then it will be harder to criticize the ref for bias, just incompetance in not applying the rules consistantly. And consistancy is what we all want after all.
10 Mar 2010, 11:31 am
@poppa69: You can do what you like mate – don’t let anyone stop you. This is the land of the free – ooops that is America I think.
10 Mar 2010, 11:31 am
And anyway……………
My Uncle Louie, a farmer from Whakatane,
likes to shag sheep on the edge of a cliff,
facing the ocean.
They push back harder that way.
10 Mar 2010, 11:33 am
Does anyone know what happened with the “white card” system that they experimented with at Stellenbosch (I think two years ago – not quite sure).
By the way, I’m sorry that I missed most of the responses to my “anti-bulls sentiment” post, but was pleasantly surprised at most of them, and I have to agree with the “it’s the fans, not the team” reasoning, even though I am one of them.
BOD, I haven’t been to RT, but doubt if they’ll support the Canes against any local team. From what I recall of GBS and the rest of the okes, they are fiercely loyal to the Bulls side, but first and foremost to SA and the Boks.
It’s only week 4 of the tourney, but most of our teams are looking better than previous years – and that makes me a happy man.
If (a) the Cheetahs can build on their win (b) the Lions keep improving (c) ditto for Stormers and (d) the Sharks get rid of the poison (two brothers come to mind) and (e) the Bulls keep their heads low and stay focused, this may be a great year for SA rugby.
Imagine getting 4 from 4 this weekend! Realistically, I’m rooting for 3/4 – Unfortunately, I don’t see the Lions beating a non-jetlagged Waratahs side – BUT: I’m pretty sure the Sharks will finally get their act together.
10 Mar 2010, 11:33 am
@cane: I read that in the “bedroom tips” section of the Kiwi FHM.
10 Mar 2010, 11:33 am
@Gertjie die Brandweer Ertjie: Yes it was affirmative action enough so they called it off.
10 Mar 2010, 11:34 am
@poppa69:
I would say yes, but men seem to enjoy telling each other kuk jokes.
10 Mar 2010, 11:34 am
was = wasn’t
10 Mar 2010, 11:35 am
My 2c…
I don’t believe than ANY refs are actually intentionally biased… and I’m sure none would admit to it…
the “best ref” thing can work… but it relies on the best refs being used… and that doesn’t always seem to happen…
not only must the best refs be used… but they must be seen to be used…
in other words… if the SANZAR refs association wants this to work… they MUST be seen to be observing, analysing and rating the refs so that the players (and supporters) know they are getting the best refs…
to pretend that every ref is perfect and never makes mistakes is unrealistic… but to show that refs do make mistakes and their mistakes are recognised and addressed… the public needs to see those mistake being acknowledged, dealt with and (eventually) erradicated…
the conundrum is that refs want to be seen as unbaised and doing a good job… but will not accept any criticism for doing a bad job…
the one will happen without the other… good/bad… light/dark… yinn/yang…
the sad consequence is that the really good refs will never be recognised as such either…
10 Mar 2010, 11:36 am
@cane:
10 Mar 2010, 11:37 am
@Dawn: Do you find anything at all funny Dawn?
10 Mar 2010, 11:39 am
One of the funniest sheepshagging routines ever was by Billy Connolly (tho he was referring to Scots doing it)
10 Mar 2010, 11:40 am
@Dawn: Yea and women enjoy watching Oprah….no-one’s perfect
10 Mar 2010, 11:42 am
@Dawn: like you Dawn Im passionate about my country, and when you have to wade through the jokes and the implications of colluding with the aussies etc on a daily basis on almost every thread…
well, it wears one down after a while, so I respond in kind by generalising about SA’s…
10 Mar 2010, 11:44 am
@ufo: Agreed…but that scaly Phil Waygh heaped a tremendous amount of pressure on weasily Barnes that the ref cracked…and that’s not good for rugby…even the ‘Tahs fans were booing their own team
because they knew they did not deserve to win..!
10 Mar 2010, 11:45 am
@poppa69: We still think you great!
10 Mar 2010, 11:46 am
My wife wants to know why the ref shaves his legs…does it make him go faster..?
10 Mar 2010, 11:46 am
@Atreides:
Good grief! Another sweeping generalisaton!
I find lotsa things funny.
I draw the line at men ******** sheep and corpses.
Is that wrong?
Should I be laughing?
10 Mar 2010, 11:47 am
@Storm outta hell: Shave or shear? Its an Ozzie she is talking about isn’t it?
10 Mar 2010, 11:49 am
Dawn,
Okay then, we Kiwi’s apoligise for the Necrophilia stuff.
Okay.
But we still believe Cape Town and Pretoria are the ***** and Gomorrah of the Rugby world.
10 Mar 2010, 11:50 am
@Bill Reyts: No,the ref in the Stormer/Highlander game…she also pointed out that he had cellulite…I guess that’s what wives do..?
10 Mar 2010, 11:50 am
yanks have polish jokes
poms have irish jokes
saffas have van der merwe jokes
what jokes do kiwis and ozzies have to laugh at themselves?
10 Mar 2010, 11:52 am
@Bill Reyts: as do I Bill, SA has always fascinated me… and its great that you guys are so strong in the rugby at the moment, it helps us lift our game too…
If I didnt I wouldnt continue to blog here…
10 Mar 2010, 11:53 am
@charo: The Ozzies have their Rugby team!
10 Mar 2010, 11:54 am
@poppa69: It is just good banter mate – that is all! No harm intended.
10 Mar 2010, 11:54 am
@Storm outta hell:
and that’s an example of when the association needs to be seen to be taking action… it’s no good just saying we’re using the best refs if the pubilc has no means of determining the who the best refs are…
SANZAR (and the IRB) should have a rating system similar to the team rating system so that consistently good reffing is recognised and rewarded by moving up the ratings and bad reffing sees a ref move down the ratings…
then at least everyone knows where they stand…
at the moment it is all left to (very emotional and subjective) opinion… and that will never allow fair and objective comment…
10 Mar 2010, 11:55 am
I just had a post “moderated”.
I used the term S-od-om and Gomorrah.
Biblical quotes are now barred!
I am sure the good folk in Cape Town and Pretoria would not have taken overdue offence at my “moderated post”.
10 Mar 2010, 11:57 am
@cane: Prediction with your team this weekend?
10 Mar 2010, 11:58 am
I got them by 7!
10 Mar 2010, 11:59 am
@ufo: Yeah…but you may then get a situation where the top teams/matches are reffed by the top refs(which is what you want) and the more lowly teams will all be complaining that they were done in by a ***** ref..!
10 Mar 2010, 12:00 pm
For anyone who might want to know I heard the trick is to put the Sheeps back legs in your wellys(gum boots) that way they can’t get away
10 Mar 2010, 12:00 pm
@Storm outta hell: Give an example
10 Mar 2010, 12:01 pm
@Storm outta hell: It’s for when the aussies passed him around at the after-party,…they prefer smooth legs…
10 Mar 2010, 12:02 pm
@SAinNZ: And spray-paint crosses on the ones that kick…..
10 Mar 2010, 12:03 pm
The IRB can change the laws all they like to make it more enjoyable, but when referees cannot be held accountable (“we protect our own”), it’s worth buggerall.
Rugby has mostly been innocent of match fixing – as opposed to Cricket, where coaches get eliminated when all does not go to plan (Woolmer, natural causes my ***!). No rugby team would throw a game, at least none that I know of. But a referee can VERY easily affect the outcome of a game, and until the IRB stops protecting the referees from scrutiny/criticism, this won’t change.
On de udder hand, refs are gatvol for the fans that continually bad-mouth them for certain calls. The appeal system will allow them to avoid this to a certain extent… nothing wrong with a quick on-field apology to the captain if the appeal is succesful.
Let’s make the “bad ref” excuse obsolete ASAP.
10 Mar 2010, 12:07 pm
@Gertjie die Brandweer Ertjie: Hear hear…check the ref’s bank accounts when they’ve had an absolute shocker…and cellphone no’s for bookie connections..
10 Mar 2010, 12:07 pm
@Bill Reyts:
We will lose.
We will lose all our games in the Republic of Necrophiliacs / Eye Gougers.
We have a very tough away schedule this year. I just hope that we can fluke the odd game here and there, and win all our home games.
We are a long shot for the semi’s.
Best chances among the NZ Teams, Chiefies and Cruix.
Storm Boys and Bullies looking good for SA.
Brumbies will be thereabouts.
10 Mar 2010, 12:07 pm
Storm, you are going to cause my wife to prevent me from watching rugby with that comment…refs shaving their legs and winking at hairy tight forwards; what is the game coming to?
10 Mar 2010, 12:09 pm
@GI POT:
10 Mar 2010, 12:10 pm
@cane: You dead meat mate! pardon the pun
Chief or Saders this weekend?
10 Mar 2010, 12:12 pm
@cane: @Bill Reyts: some very hard games to tip this weekend, Canes/Stormers, Brumbies/Sharks, Saders/Chiefs these 3 could go either way..
10 Mar 2010, 12:12 pm
@Gertjie – what do you measure a ref’s performance against if so much is left to interpretation? At the risk of sounding like a stuck record, you have to ref the game as the laws are written and not try and make something of the game that it was not intended to be. This is rugby and we have to play the game according to the laws. The ref’s interpretations will always be there, but at the moment they are not taken to task for their wrong application of the written law
10 Mar 2010, 12:12 pm
@cane: You got a much better looking team this week…gonna be a bruising battle..1
10 Mar 2010, 12:12 pm
@Storm outta hell: @ 162
incentive then for both to improve their performances…
10 Mar 2010, 12:13 pm
@poppa69: When in doubt go home team. Works sometimes!
10 Mar 2010, 12:14 pm
@Storm outta hell: Now you wife will ban you mate. ‘Better looking team’ What is coming of this world!!!
10 Mar 2010, 12:18 pm
Lotsa male shaved legs around town this week.
All with star trek helmets on their heads, dressed in lycra, riding bikes.
So. All you hunksa testosterone.
Who uses the wife’s moisturiser?
Confess.
10 Mar 2010, 12:19 pm
@Bill Reyts:
Women watch rugby to ogle men.
No other reason.
10 Mar 2010, 12:20 pm
@GI POT:
Don’t get me started on TMO’s.
10 Mar 2010, 12:20 pm
@Bill Reyts: Must be Conrad Smith
10 Mar 2010, 12:21 pm
@SAinNZ: That Wellington boots one is the funniest one I have read this Millenium!!!
10 Mar 2010, 12:21 pm
@Dawn: I use Dove soap – does that count?
10 Mar 2010, 12:21 pm
Fellows, please stop with the dead jokes. Now I will not mention any names but some ladies take offense when accused called dead in bed.
10 Mar 2010, 12:22 pm
@Bill Reyts: I will be tipping Crusaders, think Carter will direct his team much better then the Duck…
Think brumbies will be a lot better then last week but also think Sharks are knocking on the door for a win, they had the intensity last week, got to click for them soon.. toss of the coin..
Stormers/ Canes… again, toss of the coin, may just go with your advice and take the home team
10 Mar 2010, 12:22 pm
@Dawn: I have my own.
10 Mar 2010, 12:22 pm
@Dawn: Oh!
10 Mar 2010, 12:23 pm
@Storm outta hell:
10 Mar 2010, 12:24 pm
@Dawn: Geez, they still can’t get it right with all the replays at their disposal. They are complicating the process of decision making so much that they can’t see the wood for the trees anymore…
10 Mar 2010, 12:25 pm
@RedLion: My wife fits that bill mate! Does that make me a whats that long name Cane uses?
Very good mate – sharp as the Kiwi shears that comment mate! Enjoyed it too.
10 Mar 2010, 12:26 pm
@WOLFMAN21:
Good man!
10 Mar 2010, 12:30 pm
@poppa69: Saders – too close to call this one.
10 Mar 2010, 12:30 pm
Real men don’t do moisturizer, unless you count getting it in the face when taking that first leak in the morning
10 Mar 2010, 12:33 pm
@Bill Reyts: ‘Saders will win this one…Carter back to old form..!
10 Mar 2010, 12:34 pm
@Storm outta hell: My superbru not looking good! You sure!
10 Mar 2010, 12:38 pm
@GI POT:
Ooooh yes they do.
10 Mar 2010, 12:39 pm
@Atreides:
After careful consideration …
I find Top Gear very funny.
10 Mar 2010, 12:40 pm
Canes have been average at best this season. They beat the blues in a very wierd match, which the blues threw away. Then they beat the Force and the Lions at home, all good teams will do that this season without much fuss. The first time they faced a committed team, they lost by a fairly large margin, There not the same team as they have been in years gone by. Expect the Stormers to take them out this week end.
10 Mar 2010, 12:41 pm
@Bill Reyts: I dropped from 4th to 28th after last weeks bad calls…had Sharks,Chiefs,Blues and ‘Canes to win…not gonna make the same mistakes again
10 Mar 2010, 12:41 pm
@Dawn: Reverse gear doesn’t always work anyway! Top Gear is often better than the bottom gears anyway.
10 Mar 2010, 12:42 pm
Screw Kaplan, that guy is so intent on proving that he isnt biased that he actually favours foreign teams.
The Sharks have been hard done by this year by 3 of the most inept, useless refs i have ever had the dispeasure of watching.
Brown the clown, kiwi ref reffing a chiefs game.
Pro – easily the most incompetent ref in the comp.
Marks – an aussie ref reffing an ausie side in sydney.(give me a fu&king break).
10 Mar 2010, 12:43 pm
@Bill Reyts:
I better laugh at that … huh.
10 Mar 2010, 12:43 pm
@Storm outta hell: Same but had Tahs instead of Sharks.
10 Mar 2010, 12:45 pm
@Dawn:
10 Mar 2010, 12:48 pm
@John Galt: Marks easily won man of the match..!
@Bill Reyts: ‘Tahs have not impressed me,and I had a feeling Sharkies would lift their game with Ruan at 9
10 Mar 2010, 13:18 pm
A woman went to her doctor for advice. She told him that her husband had developed a penchant for anal ***, and she was not sure that it was such a good idea.
‘Do you enjoy it?’ The doctor asked.
‘Actually, yes, I do.
”Does it hurt you?’ he asked.
‘No. I rather like it.’
‘Well, then,’ the doctor continued, ‘there’s no reason that you shouldn’t practice anal ***, if that’s what you like, so long as you take care not to get pregnant.’
The woman was mystified.
‘What? You can get pregnant from anal ***?’
‘Of course you can, ‘ the doctor replied. ‘Where do you think people like Julius Malema come from?’
10 Mar 2010, 13:22 pm
@Blouste: Hahah…he’s a piece of cr@p..
Next week’s log should read:
1.Bulls
2.Stormers
3.Crusaders
4.Chiefs
10 Mar 2010, 13:22 pm
@John Galt: before Kaplan got the case of the runs @ Kings Park he was blowing the Cheetahs out of the Tank, the Sharks would’ve won that game by a mile & Kaplan’s influence on the scoreline would have been as telling as Mark Lawrence’s last saturday.
10 Mar 2010, 13:26 pm
@Storm outta hell:
That would be very nice…
10 Mar 2010, 13:32 pm
Where have all the Sharks fans gone?
10 Mar 2010, 13:35 pm
@WP Till I Die:
Down….
Under…
10 Mar 2010, 13:35 pm
@WP Till I Die:
Actually they are meeting up with grant10 for a bar fight somewhere…
10 Mar 2010, 13:38 pm
The Sydney Morning Herald’s Super 14 Power Rankings after Round 4:
1. BULLS: Nice work! The Bulls had the week off and stayed on top of the ladder courtesy of losses by the Chiefs and Hurricanes. (Last week: 2)
2. STORMERS: The best defensive team in the competition. The Stormers have conceded 46 points less than their nearest rivals, the Crusaders. (Last week: 7)
3. CRUSADERS: They are getting better. Toughed it out against the Blues to keep their title tilt on course. (Last week: 5)
4. CHIEFS: That was a bad loss. Looked like scoring 80 against the Reds before shutting up shop too early. (Last week: 1)
5. HURRICANES: The top of the table beckoned and the Hurricanes folded. Crunch game against the Bulls this weekend. (Last week: 3)
6. BRUMBIES: Should have got the bonus point against the Lions but didn’t. Will need four tries against the Sharks. (Last week: 6)
7. REDS: Did their best to lose against the Chiefs in the final five minutes but held on. Fabulous win! (Last week:
8. BLUES: Tried hard, but outclassed against the Crusaders. Perhaps that’s their level this season. (Last week: 4)
9. WARATAHS: Could have won by 30 yet should have lost the game against the Sharks. The Tahs can thank referee Paul Marks for their win. (Last week: 10)
10. CHEETAHS: Belter of a result against the Canes but at a terrible price; Heinrich Brussow gone for the year. (Last week: 11)
11. HIGHLANDERS: The Stormers kept them to the first doughnut of the season. The loss was not disappointing, but its manner was. (Last week: 9)
12. SHARKS: Had some justifiable grievances against Paul Marks but should at least acknowledge they were not flash themselves. (Last week: 12)
13. LIONS: Showed some fight against the Brumbies but one always sensed they were not going to win. (Last week: 14)
14. FORCE: Fresh from the bye and chasing their first win, but there is no love lost between them and the Reds. (Last week: 13)
10 Mar 2010, 13:40 pm
@WP Till I Die:
here’s one
10 Mar 2010, 13:41 pm
Bulls against Hurricanes this weekend…?
Surely not…
10 Mar 2010, 13:48 pm
@charo:
I see you, Thick-Skinned One.
@Blouste:
Yeah, saw that too. What can you say, it’s the Sydney Morning Herald
10 Mar 2010, 13:51 pm
@WP Till I Die:
Well yes…
10 Mar 2010, 13:53 pm
@WP Till I Die:
well when you’ve been supporting natal/banana boys/sharks for as long as i have, you get used to it.
that’s why i didn’t mock the stormers or bulls when they were down.
80′s were pretty bad for us – a loooong depression
10 Mar 2010, 13:56 pm
@charo:
The ’00s have not been too brilliant for WP/The Stormers either…
10 Mar 2010, 13:58 pm
@John Galt:
Aagh shame man!!
Marks was completely right to not award the try and was 100% correct to call the penalty in the line out.
The players assisting the jum,per got infront of the jumper when he came to ground…OBSTRUCTION!!
Beale did not deliberately pat the ball down he is innocent..he was trying for an intercept.
Whay noone is calling kaplans games shockers when he gave the bulls bonuses.
I have a white hanky for you to cry in, but one problem, I have lent it to many other saffas in your situation.
10 Mar 2010, 13:59 pm
@wallabie.:
And it doesn’t help that the Bulls have had SA referees in all their matches so far
10 Mar 2010, 14:02 pm
If ou Tac is around ,here is an extrct from a question answer thread by Jaco Pretrius on the Bulls blog….
On the G.van den Heever issue…
tienie asked: Sterkte met die besering ,hoop jy is gou weer in die 13 trui..
net een vraag..julle **** dit seker baie..wie is die vinnigste in die bulls,vodacom ,en onder 21 /19 spanne…
sal bakkies nog die jaar speel?
Jaco answered: Gerhard vd Hever is verseker die vinnigste by die Bulls… in my opinie heel moontlik die vinnigste in SA Rugby ook. Bakkies werk hard aan sy rehabilitasie en behoort oor so 3 weke weer te begin hardloop.
10 Mar 2010, 14:03 pm
extrct = extract
10 Mar 2010, 14:09 pm
The team is: Zane Kirchner, Gerhard vd Heever, Stephan Dippenaar, Wynand Olivier, Francois Hougaard, Morné Steyn, Fourie du Preez, Pierre Spies, Dewald Potgieter, Derick Kuün, Victor Matfield (c), Danie Rossouw, Werner Kruger, Gary Botha, Gurthrö Steenkamp. Replacements: Bandise Maku, Rossouw de Klerk, Flip van der Merwe, Deon Stegmann, Jacques-Louis Potgieter, Jaco van der Westhuyzen, Pedrie Wannenburg.
10 Mar 2010, 14:10 pm
@WP Till I Die: EP has been living a nightmare since the 80′s if my facts are correct
10 Mar 2010, 14:12 pm
Beale was going for the intercept..
Snigger…that’s what marks said in the tahs presidents box after the game…
10 Mar 2010, 14:12 pm
@Transformation:
Which is why I respect all true Eastern Province fans!
Speaking of which, when are you in Cape Town? Remember you said something about you attending the Jazz Festival?
10 Mar 2010, 14:13 pm
@Staal:
Would have kept Flip in the starting line-up, with Danie coming on as impact player…
Your take on it ?
10 Mar 2010, 14:13 pm
@WP Till I Die:
I know.
I have moved on when Kaplan reffed **** in the bulls and brumbies game.
Refs get it wrong but it will be percieved as bias if a local ref a super game.
10 Mar 2010, 14:16 pm
@wallabie.:
Yip, sometimes you get decisions against you and sometimes the decisions go for you.
In my opinion it all ends up to be balanced out. Referees are human after all, and not robots.
The last thing we want is NFL-style stop-start refereeing.
I do however think that an appeal system – one was trialled in our Varsity Cup last year – has some merit. You give each captain in a match two appeals they can use for that match.
It worked pretty well in the Varsity Cup, and does not cause undue delays.
10 Mar 2010, 14:18 pm
@Blouste: Pakslae for the first 50 then let him rest for next weekend. Flippie is in monster form but we need to settle the game plan early … Pakslae will help in doing that… imo..
Both are actually in very good form.. imo… behalwe dat Pakslae nooit weer 8′ste man moet speel nie.
10 Mar 2010, 14:21 pm
@WP Till I Die: the plan is that i arrive in cape town on the morning of the 1st of april. Those plans are still on!
10 Mar 2010, 14:22 pm
@Staal:
No ,you’re right, both are on exellent form…
And yes, please don’t play Danie at 8 again, rather use D.Potgieter.
Strangely he did well there in Europe, suppose the different type of game and less heavier fields, as well as the new intrepretations does’nt suite him so well now…(to play at
10 Mar 2010, 14:29 pm
@WP Till I Die:
That was used as well in the now defunct aus provincial games.
SANZAR did not like it for some reason.
a couple of regulations I would like to see come into being is for scrum resets.
Allow one reset and then after that the clock is stopped until we get a scrum where the ball comes out of the scrum…the clock is restarted as soon as the scrumhalf gets their hands on the ball.
The other place for this is taking penalty goals…stop the clock and restart it at kick off if the kicker gets the goal.
How much of our money is wasted when you go to a game and 30 minutes of it is used up watching place kiscks and scrum resets.
10 Mar 2010, 14:31 pm
@WP Till I Die:
I wont blame th ref as we do get the rub of the green and then dont…it happens have to live with it.
If many a biased supporter just has to look where they get their bonuses they will see it evens itself out.
10 Mar 2010, 14:31 pm
@wallabie.: specially those kicks.. they take ages….
10 Mar 2010, 14:44 pm
@wallabie.:
Agreed.
10 Mar 2010, 15:24 pm
I agree about the scrum resets and the kicks at goal. It also seems like, every time the ref stops play, there is someone on the ground receiving medical attention.
It seems farcical. In soccer, when you receive medical treatment, you leave the field, and can only return to the field from the sideline.
10 Mar 2010, 15:46 pm
The root cause imo is that it’s a pro game now played by professional players, no longer the Varsity grads while the referee cannot control more than 50% of what goes on the field, read: teams by design cheat to gain advantage while the only one referee is powerless.
Adding 2nd referee is called for BUT, that will increase the down time of the broadcast which is exactly what the pro game sponsors DO NOT WANT!
The short term fix will be a zero tolerance at the breakdown, scrums and rucks, meaning, players sent off often like in ice Hocky, thus makes the game more manageable and players accountable.
10 Mar 2010, 16:04 pm
@sweeper: 241
Soccer is farcical.
10 Mar 2010, 16:05 pm
I’ll tell you one thing… In club rugby, those place kicks that take ages? They’re welcomed with open arms because they provide time for the forwards to breathe
10 Mar 2010, 19:39 pm
“Teams want best refs”
-Full Quote: “Teams want best refs, but will have to put up with the current crop of hickdeads for time being”
10 Mar 2010, 20:44 pm
Read: “teams want SA (non-quota) refs because the Aussie and Kiwi and SA quota refs SUCK and dont know the laws of the game.”
10 Mar 2010, 20:44 pm
Or choose not to apply them…
10 Mar 2010, 20:46 pm
@wallabie.: @237 You cant restart it at kickoff, because if he misses, the ball is in play. Maybe restart it as he kicks?
10 Mar 2010, 20:51 pm
@Blouste: AGREED
10 Mar 2010, 22:37 pm
@wallabie.: wouldn’t that mean games go on for 90 minutes?
10 Mar 2010, 23:53 pm
I would hate to think refs are bias, i tend to think they are more likely to be swayed by home crowds such as at loftus and and Christchurch. I think they can be bias towards good players as well such as McCaw. For example if a winger is trying to counter ruck hell be penalised but if its a guy who is good at it he’ll be let go.
I would like to think that bias refs are are thing of the past – im talking about the bias priks who use to ref All Black Spingbok games in the republic 30 years ago. Yeah you might call them great but they favoured you guys blatently. In todays game that is not the case – like cricket umpires, some refs tend to have brain explosions from time to time.
You saffas have been complaining about the ref alot lately, i think the sharks deserve the critisim themselves without lookin to the ref as a scapegoat. They are awful this year. There performances at home looked like they will still on holiday!
11 Mar 2010, 00:03 am
Super 14
Referee Paul Marks sacked after New South Wales controversy: reports
March 11, 2010
Referee Paul Marks has paid a high price for his controversial decision not to award the Sharks a penalty try in their Super 14 loss to NSW last Saturday night.
The Australian newspaper reports that Marks has been sacked indefinitely, with SANZAR referees boss Lyndon Bray conceding a penalty try against Waratah Kurtley Beale should have been awarded to the visiting South African side.
The decision to stand down Marks comes after Sharks coach John Plumtree and his players voiced their dismay at the officiating after their 25-21 loss to the Waratahs, their fourth successive loss of 2010.
AAP
11 Mar 2010, 00:09 am
@NZMaori: ag whatever man.
funny how you kiwis always talk about refs 30 yrs ago but scream blue murder when we complain about the present.
marks has been punished, and not by a saffa.
nuff said.
11 Mar 2010, 00:40 am
Yes but but, there was no guarantee the Ryann Kankowski would have caught the ball..and how is this different from when one of the All Black players punched the ball out of the arms of a Bok at the Las Vegas Sevens after he crossed the try line..and not penalized at all, and knocking SA out of the cup..
11 Mar 2010, 00:55 am
Rugby law Book:
“B. Penalty Try
A penalty try shall be awarded between the posts if but for foul play by the defending team
* a try would PROBABLY have been scored, or
* it would probably have been scored in a more favorable position than that where the ball was grounded.”
But what makes a knock on foul play even if deliberate??
“LAW 17. KNOCK-ON OR THROW-FORWARD
A knock-on occurs when the ball travels forward towards the direction of the opponents’ dead-ball line after:-
* a player loses possession of it, or
* a player propels or strikes it with his hand or arm, or
* it strikes a player’s hand or arm and touches the ground or another player before it is recovered by the player.
A throw-forward occurs when a player carrying the ball throws or passes it in the direction of his opponents’ dead-ball line. A throw-in from touch is not a throw-forward. If the ball is not thrown or passed forward but it bounces forward after hitting a player or the ground, it is not a throw-forward.
Note:-
(i)
A pass, throw or knock-on should not be adjudged an infringement unless it is clearly so under the Law. If there is any doubt, play should be allowed to proceed.
(1)
The knock-on or throw-forward must not be intentional.
Penalty:- Free kick at the place of infringement or in accord with
Law 14 Penalty (e). A penalty try may be awarded.”
Yup Marks cannot read the Rugby Law Book. Voertsek!
11 Mar 2010, 01:20 am
He must be a Marksist
12 Mar 2010, 02:41 am
@NZMaori: @251 Funny your comments about the SA ref’s – we were cheated out of a series win in NZ a few times by dubious decisions as well.
So perhaps you should take your self righteous attitude and stuff it where the sun dont shine, because your nation was just as guilty of it. It worked both ways, and all of the incidents left bad taste in both parties mouths, and sullied the game not true?
And OPEN YOUR EYES – you must want to look before you can see- because its bad for the game, and we care most of all for the game, not the result. How much more blatant/inept can the last weeks reffing be? FFS! Hell!
Re the Lions/Brumbies game:
Is it good for the game that either:
- the ref does not know the laws on double movement on the line, or
- chooses not to apply them?
Is it good for the game that either:
-the ref’s ego is so big that he chooses to apply laws that have no basis in the game to penalise team because he is frustrated, or
– he is so biased that he chooses to ignore his own commands at the scrums (“its out, use it”) and award a penalty try for nothing?
Re the Sharks /Tahs game:
Is it good that the ref either:
- does not know the laws on penalty tries, or
- knows them but chooses not to appply them -in direct contravention of his own rulings?
Either way you look at it, how is this good for the game? Surely you cannot support this kind of behaviour if you have any sense appreciation for the game?
12 Mar 2010, 02:43 am
This is not an “us and them” ***** session in good nature – this is a reflection on the SHAMEFUL state of our game (either way you look at it).
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