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	<title>Comments on: &#8216;Teams want best refs&#8217;</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.keo.co.za/2010/03/10/teams-want-best-refs/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.keo.co.za/2010/03/10/teams-want-best-refs/</link>
	<description>An independent look at South African rugby</description>
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	<item>
		<title>By: SjamBok</title>
		<link>http://www.keo.co.za/2010/03/10/teams-want-best-refs/#comment-1538566</link>
		<dc:creator>SjamBok</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 12 Mar 2010 00:43:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.keo.co.za/?p=53848#comment-1538566</guid>
		<description>This is not an &quot;us and them&quot; bitch session in good nature - this is a reflection on the SHAMEFUL state of our game (either way you look at it).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is not an &#8220;us and them&#8221; <acronym title="Keep it clean!">*****</acronym> session in good nature &#8211; this is a reflection on the SHAMEFUL state of our game (either way you look at it).</p>
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		<title>By: SjamBok</title>
		<link>http://www.keo.co.za/2010/03/10/teams-want-best-refs/#comment-1538563</link>
		<dc:creator>SjamBok</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 12 Mar 2010 00:41:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.keo.co.za/?p=53848#comment-1538563</guid>
		<description>@&lt;a href=&quot;#comment-1537511&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;NZMaori&lt;/a&gt;: @251  Funny your comments about the SA ref&#039;s - we were cheated out of a series win in NZ a few times by dubious decisions as well.

So perhaps you should take your self righteous attitude and stuff it where the sun dont shine, because your nation was just as guilty of it.   It worked both ways, and all of the incidents left bad taste in both parties mouths, and sullied the game not true? 

And OPEN YOUR EYES - you must want to look before you can see- because its bad for the game,  and we care most of all for the game, not the result. How much more blatant/inept can the last weeks reffing be? FFS! Hell!  

Re the Lions/Brumbies game:
Is it good for the game that either: 
- the ref does not know the laws on double movement on the line, or 
- chooses not to apply them? 

Is it good for the game that either: 
 -the ref&#039;s ego is so big that he  chooses to apply laws that have no basis in the game to penalise  team because he is frustrated, or
 - he is so biased that he chooses to ignore his own commands at the scrums (&quot;its out, use it&quot;) and award a penalty try for nothing?

Re the Sharks /Tahs game: 
Is it good that the ref either:
- does not know the laws on penalty tries, or 
- knows them but chooses not to appply them -in direct contravention of his own rulings? 


Either way you look at it, how is this good for the game? Surely you cannot support this kind of behaviour if you have any sense appreciation for the game?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@<a href="#comment-1537511" rel="nofollow">NZMaori</a>: @251  Funny your comments about the SA ref&#8217;s &#8211; we were cheated out of a series win in NZ a few times by dubious decisions as well.</p>
<p>So perhaps you should take your self righteous attitude and stuff it where the sun dont shine, because your nation was just as guilty of it.   It worked both ways, and all of the incidents left bad taste in both parties mouths, and sullied the game not true? </p>
<p>And OPEN YOUR EYES &#8211; you must want to look before you can see- because its bad for the game,  and we care most of all for the game, not the result. How much more blatant/inept can the last weeks reffing be? FFS! Hell!  </p>
<p>Re the Lions/Brumbies game:<br />
Is it good for the game that either:<br />
- the ref does not know the laws on double movement on the line, or<br />
- chooses not to apply them? </p>
<p>Is it good for the game that either:<br />
 -the ref&#8217;s ego is so big that he  chooses to apply laws that have no basis in the game to penalise  team because he is frustrated, or<br />
 &#8211; he is so biased that he chooses to ignore his own commands at the scrums (&#8220;its out, use it&#8221;) and award a penalty try for nothing?</p>
<p>Re the Sharks /Tahs game:<br />
Is it good that the ref either:<br />
- does not know the laws on penalty tries, or<br />
- knows them but chooses not to appply them -in direct contravention of his own rulings? </p>
<p>Either way you look at it, how is this good for the game? Surely you cannot support this kind of behaviour if you have any sense appreciation for the game?</p>
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		<title>By: TheTackler</title>
		<link>http://www.keo.co.za/2010/03/10/teams-want-best-refs/#comment-1537549</link>
		<dc:creator>TheTackler</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 Mar 2010 23:20:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.keo.co.za/?p=53848#comment-1537549</guid>
		<description>He must be a Marksist</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>He must be a Marksist</p>
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		<title>By: Ray</title>
		<link>http://www.keo.co.za/2010/03/10/teams-want-best-refs/#comment-1537545</link>
		<dc:creator>Ray</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 Mar 2010 22:55:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.keo.co.za/?p=53848#comment-1537545</guid>
		<description>Rugby law Book:

&quot;B. Penalty Try
A penalty try shall be awarded between the posts if but for foul play by the defending team

    * a try would PROBABLY  have been scored, or
    * it would probably have been scored in a more favorable position than that where the ball was grounded.&quot; 

But what makes a knock on foul play even if deliberate??

&quot;LAW 17. KNOCK-ON OR THROW-FORWARD
A knock-on occurs when the ball travels forward towards the direction of the opponents&#039; dead-ball line after:-

    * a player loses possession of it, or

    * a player propels or strikes it with his hand or arm, or

    * it strikes a player&#039;s hand or arm and touches the ground or another player before it is recovered by the player.

A throw-forward occurs when a player carrying the ball throws or passes it in the direction of his opponents&#039; dead-ball line. A throw-in from touch is not a throw-forward. If the ball is not thrown or passed forward but it bounces forward after hitting a player or the ground, it is not a throw-forward.

Note:-

(i)
    A pass, throw or knock-on should not be adjudged an infringement unless it is clearly so under the Law. If there is any doubt, play should be allowed to proceed.

(1)
    The knock-on or throw-forward must not be intentional.

    Penalty:- Free kick at the place of infringement or in accord with 
Law 14 Penalty (e). A penalty try may be awarded.&quot;

Yup Marks cannot read the Rugby Law Book. Voertsek!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Rugby law Book:</p>
<p>&#8220;B. Penalty Try<br />
A penalty try shall be awarded between the posts if but for foul play by the defending team</p>
<p>    * a try would PROBABLY  have been scored, or<br />
    * it would probably have been scored in a more favorable position than that where the ball was grounded.&#8221; </p>
<p>But what makes a knock on foul play even if deliberate??</p>
<p>&#8220;LAW 17. KNOCK-ON OR THROW-FORWARD<br />
A knock-on occurs when the ball travels forward towards the direction of the opponents&#8217; dead-ball line after:-</p>
<p>    * a player loses possession of it, or</p>
<p>    * a player propels or strikes it with his hand or arm, or</p>
<p>    * it strikes a player&#8217;s hand or arm and touches the ground or another player before it is recovered by the player.</p>
<p>A throw-forward occurs when a player carrying the ball throws or passes it in the direction of his opponents&#8217; dead-ball line. A throw-in from touch is not a throw-forward. If the ball is not thrown or passed forward but it bounces forward after hitting a player or the ground, it is not a throw-forward.</p>
<p>Note:-</p>
<p>(i)<br />
    A pass, throw or knock-on should not be adjudged an infringement unless it is clearly so under the Law. If there is any doubt, play should be allowed to proceed.</p>
<p>(1)<br />
    The knock-on or throw-forward must not be intentional.</p>
<p>    Penalty:- Free kick at the place of infringement or in accord with<br />
Law 14 Penalty (e). A penalty try may be awarded.&#8221;</p>
<p>Yup Marks cannot read the Rugby Law Book. Voertsek!</p>
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		<title>By: Ray</title>
		<link>http://www.keo.co.za/2010/03/10/teams-want-best-refs/#comment-1537537</link>
		<dc:creator>Ray</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 Mar 2010 22:40:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.keo.co.za/?p=53848#comment-1537537</guid>
		<description>Yes but but, there was no guarantee the Ryann Kankowski would have caught the ball..and how is this different from when one of the All Black players punched the ball out of the arms of a Bok at the Las Vegas Sevens after he crossed the try line..and not penalized at all, and knocking SA out of the cup..</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yes but but, there was no guarantee the Ryann Kankowski would have caught the ball..and how is this different from when one of the All Black players punched the ball out of the arms of a Bok at the Las Vegas Sevens after he crossed the try line..and not penalized at all, and knocking SA out of the cup..</p>
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		<title>By: rangerman</title>
		<link>http://www.keo.co.za/2010/03/10/teams-want-best-refs/#comment-1537520</link>
		<dc:creator>rangerman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 Mar 2010 22:09:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.keo.co.za/?p=53848#comment-1537520</guid>
		<description>@&lt;a href=&quot;#comment-1537511&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;NZMaori&lt;/a&gt;: ag whatever man.

funny how you kiwis always talk about refs 30 yrs ago but scream blue murder when we complain about the present.

marks has been punished, and not by a saffa.

nuff said.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@<a href="#comment-1537511" rel="nofollow">NZMaori</a>: ag whatever man.</p>
<p>funny how you kiwis always talk about refs 30 yrs ago but scream blue murder when we complain about the present.</p>
<p>marks has been punished, and not by a saffa.</p>
<p>nuff said.</p>
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		<title>By: funkyzoo</title>
		<link>http://www.keo.co.za/2010/03/10/teams-want-best-refs/#comment-1537517</link>
		<dc:creator>funkyzoo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 Mar 2010 22:03:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.keo.co.za/?p=53848#comment-1537517</guid>
		<description>Super 14
Referee Paul Marks sacked after New South Wales controversy: reports


    March 11, 2010 

Referee Paul Marks has paid a high price for his controversial decision not to award the Sharks a penalty try in their Super 14 loss to NSW last Saturday night.
The Australian newspaper reports that Marks has been sacked indefinitely, with SANZAR referees boss Lyndon Bray conceding a penalty try against Waratah Kurtley Beale should have been awarded to the visiting South African side.

The decision to stand down Marks comes after Sharks coach John Plumtree and his players voiced their dismay at the officiating after their 25-21 loss to the Waratahs, their fourth successive loss of 2010.

AAP</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Super 14<br />
Referee Paul Marks sacked after New South Wales controversy: reports</p>
<p>    March 11, 2010 </p>
<p>Referee Paul Marks has paid a high price for his controversial decision not to award the Sharks a penalty try in their Super 14 loss to NSW last Saturday night.<br />
The Australian newspaper reports that Marks has been sacked indefinitely, with SANZAR referees boss Lyndon Bray conceding a penalty try against Waratah Kurtley Beale should have been awarded to the visiting South African side.</p>
<p>The decision to stand down Marks comes after Sharks coach John Plumtree and his players voiced their dismay at the officiating after their 25-21 loss to the Waratahs, their fourth successive loss of 2010.</p>
<p>AAP</p>
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		<title>By: NZMaori</title>
		<link>http://www.keo.co.za/2010/03/10/teams-want-best-refs/#comment-1537511</link>
		<dc:creator>NZMaori</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 Mar 2010 21:53:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.keo.co.za/?p=53848#comment-1537511</guid>
		<description>I would hate to think refs are bias, i tend to think they are more likely to be swayed by home crowds such as at loftus and and Christchurch.  I think they can be bias towards good players as well such as McCaw.  For example if a winger is trying to counter ruck hell be penalised but if its a guy who is good at it he&#039;ll be let go.  

I would like to think that bias refs are are thing of the past - im talking about the bias priks who use to ref All Black Spingbok games in the republic 30 years ago.  Yeah you might call them great but they favoured you guys blatently.  In todays game that is not the case - like cricket umpires, some refs tend to have brain explosions from time to time.  

You saffas have been complaining about the ref alot lately, i think the sharks deserve the critisim themselves without lookin to the ref as a scapegoat.  They are awful this year.  There performances at home looked like they will still on holiday!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I would hate to think refs are bias, i tend to think they are more likely to be swayed by home crowds such as at loftus and and Christchurch.  I think they can be bias towards good players as well such as McCaw.  For example if a winger is trying to counter ruck hell be penalised but if its a guy who is good at it he&#8217;ll be let go.  </p>
<p>I would like to think that bias refs are are thing of the past &#8211; im talking about the bias priks who use to ref All Black Spingbok games in the republic 30 years ago.  Yeah you might call them great but they favoured you guys blatently.  In todays game that is not the case &#8211; like cricket umpires, some refs tend to have brain explosions from time to time.  </p>
<p>You saffas have been complaining about the ref alot lately, i think the sharks deserve the critisim themselves without lookin to the ref as a scapegoat.  They are awful this year.  There performances at home looked like they will still on holiday!</p>
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		<title>By: Big Hit</title>
		<link>http://www.keo.co.za/2010/03/10/teams-want-best-refs/#comment-1537435</link>
		<dc:creator>Big Hit</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 Mar 2010 20:37:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.keo.co.za/?p=53848#comment-1537435</guid>
		<description>@&lt;a href=&quot;#comment-1537098&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;wallabie.&lt;/a&gt;: wouldn&#039;t that mean games go on for 90 minutes?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@<a href="#comment-1537098" rel="nofollow">wallabie.</a>: wouldn&#8217;t that mean games go on for 90 minutes?</p>
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		<title>By: Jacques Snyman Website Design</title>
		<link>http://www.keo.co.za/2010/03/10/teams-want-best-refs/#comment-1537404</link>
		<dc:creator>Jacques Snyman Website Design</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 Mar 2010 18:51:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.keo.co.za/?p=53848#comment-1537404</guid>
		<description>@&lt;a href=&quot;#comment-1537044&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Blouste&lt;/a&gt;: AGREED 8-)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@<a href="#comment-1537044" rel="nofollow">Blouste</a>: AGREED <img src='http://www.keo.co.za/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_cool.gif' alt='8-)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: SjamBok</title>
		<link>http://www.keo.co.za/2010/03/10/teams-want-best-refs/#comment-1537400</link>
		<dc:creator>SjamBok</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 Mar 2010 18:46:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.keo.co.za/?p=53848#comment-1537400</guid>
		<description>@&lt;a href=&quot;#comment-1537098&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;wallabie.&lt;/a&gt;: @237 You cant restart it at kickoff, because if he misses, the ball is in play. Maybe restart it as he kicks?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@<a href="#comment-1537098" rel="nofollow">wallabie.</a>: @237 You cant restart it at kickoff, because if he misses, the ball is in play. Maybe restart it as he kicks?</p>
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		<title>By: SjamBok</title>
		<link>http://www.keo.co.za/2010/03/10/teams-want-best-refs/#comment-1537398</link>
		<dc:creator>SjamBok</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 Mar 2010 18:44:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.keo.co.za/?p=53848#comment-1537398</guid>
		<description>Or choose not to apply them...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Or choose not to apply them&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: SjamBok</title>
		<link>http://www.keo.co.za/2010/03/10/teams-want-best-refs/#comment-1537396</link>
		<dc:creator>SjamBok</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 Mar 2010 18:44:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.keo.co.za/?p=53848#comment-1537396</guid>
		<description>Read: &quot;teams want SA (non-quota) refs because the Aussie and Kiwi and SA quota refs SUCK and dont know the laws of the game.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Read: &#8220;teams want SA (non-quota) refs because the Aussie and Kiwi and SA quota refs SUCK and dont know the laws of the game.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: roobarb2</title>
		<link>http://www.keo.co.za/2010/03/10/teams-want-best-refs/#comment-1537327</link>
		<dc:creator>roobarb2</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 Mar 2010 17:39:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.keo.co.za/?p=53848#comment-1537327</guid>
		<description>&quot;Teams want best refs&quot;

-Full Quote: &quot;Teams want best refs, but will have to put up with the current crop of hickdeads for time being&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Teams want best refs&#8221;</p>
<p>-Full Quote: &#8220;Teams want best refs, but will have to put up with the current crop of hickdeads for time being&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: 4thWiseMan</title>
		<link>http://www.keo.co.za/2010/03/10/teams-want-best-refs/#comment-1537175</link>
		<dc:creator>4thWiseMan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 Mar 2010 14:05:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.keo.co.za/?p=53848#comment-1537175</guid>
		<description>I&#039;ll tell you one thing... In club rugby, those place kicks that take ages? They&#039;re welcomed with open arms because they provide time for the forwards to breathe :lol:</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ll tell you one thing&#8230; In club rugby, those place kicks that take ages? They&#8217;re welcomed with open arms because they provide time for the forwards to breathe <img src='http://www.keo.co.za/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_lol.gif' alt=':lol:' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: 4thWiseMan</title>
		<link>http://www.keo.co.za/2010/03/10/teams-want-best-refs/#comment-1537174</link>
		<dc:creator>4thWiseMan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 Mar 2010 14:04:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.keo.co.za/?p=53848#comment-1537174</guid>
		<description>@&lt;a href=&quot;#comment-1537142&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;sweeper&lt;/a&gt;: 241

Soccer is farcical.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@<a href="#comment-1537142" rel="nofollow">sweeper</a>: 241</p>
<p>Soccer is farcical.</p>
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		<title>By: Hondo</title>
		<link>http://www.keo.co.za/2010/03/10/teams-want-best-refs/#comment-1537156</link>
		<dc:creator>Hondo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 Mar 2010 13:46:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.keo.co.za/?p=53848#comment-1537156</guid>
		<description>The root cause imo is that it&#039;s a pro game now played by professional players, no longer the  Varsity grads while the referee cannot control more than 50% of what goes on the field, read: teams by design cheat to gain advantage while the only one referee is powerless.
Adding 2nd referee is called for BUT, that will increase the down time of the broadcast which is exactly what the pro game sponsors DO NOT WANT!
The short term fix will be a zero tolerance at the breakdown, scrums and rucks, meaning, players sent off often like in ice Hocky, thus makes the game more manageable and players accountable.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The root cause imo is that it&#8217;s a pro game now played by professional players, no longer the  Varsity grads while the referee cannot control more than 50% of what goes on the field, read: teams by design cheat to gain advantage while the only one referee is powerless.<br />
Adding 2nd referee is called for BUT, that will increase the down time of the broadcast which is exactly what the pro game sponsors DO NOT WANT!<br />
The short term fix will be a zero tolerance at the breakdown, scrums and rucks, meaning, players sent off often like in ice Hocky, thus makes the game more manageable and players accountable.</p>
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		<title>By: sweeper</title>
		<link>http://www.keo.co.za/2010/03/10/teams-want-best-refs/#comment-1537142</link>
		<dc:creator>sweeper</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 Mar 2010 13:24:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.keo.co.za/?p=53848#comment-1537142</guid>
		<description>I agree about the scrum resets and the kicks at goal. It also seems like, every time the ref stops play, there is someone on the ground receiving medical attention. 

It seems farcical. In soccer, when you receive medical treatment, you leave the field, and can only return to the field from the sideline.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree about the scrum resets and the kicks at goal. It also seems like, every time the ref stops play, there is someone on the ground receiving medical attention. </p>
<p>It seems farcical. In soccer, when you receive medical treatment, you leave the field, and can only return to the field from the sideline.</p>
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		<title>By: WP Till I Die</title>
		<link>http://www.keo.co.za/2010/03/10/teams-want-best-refs/#comment-1537111</link>
		<dc:creator>WP Till I Die</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 Mar 2010 12:44:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.keo.co.za/?p=53848#comment-1537111</guid>
		<description>@&lt;a href=&quot;#comment-1537098&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;wallabie.&lt;/a&gt;: 

Agreed.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@<a href="#comment-1537098" rel="nofollow">wallabie.</a>: </p>
<p>Agreed.</p>
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	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Staal</title>
		<link>http://www.keo.co.za/2010/03/10/teams-want-best-refs/#comment-1537101</link>
		<dc:creator>Staal</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 Mar 2010 12:31:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.keo.co.za/?p=53848#comment-1537101</guid>
		<description>@&lt;a href=&quot;#comment-1537098&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;wallabie.&lt;/a&gt;: specially those kicks.. they take ages....</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@<a href="#comment-1537098" rel="nofollow">wallabie.</a>: specially those kicks.. they take ages&#8230;.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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