Marks ‘removed’, not axed
11 Mar 2010
André Watson says referee Paul Marks has not been sacked.
According to the Australian media, Marks was fired with immediate effect by Sanzar following their review of his performance in the Sharks’ 25-21 defeat to the Waratahs.
Marks made a controversial call towards the end of the game where he did not award the Durban franchise a penalty try when Tahs fullback Kurtley Beale obstructed a clear scoring opportunity. If the try was scored, the Sharks would have been in a strong position to win the match.
However, Saru head of referees and member of the Sanzar referee panel Watson has confirmed with keo.co.za that this information is false.
‘I’ve read this news in the papers but the truth is he has not been fired or suspended,’ said Watson. ‘He has, however, been removed from the Sanzar panel of referees until further notice following the review of his performance last weekend.
‘He has been sent to a remedial process where he will be able to learn from his mistakes. Should we feel he has learned from his errors, Sanzar might allow him back on the panel. But I don’t think he will ref another game in the Super 14 this season.’
More rumours suggested South African referee Pro Legoete was also suspended. Watson denied this as well.
‘Let me get this straight, Pro has just helped out this season. He has reffed one and a half games, where he stood in for Jonathan Kaplan [second half - Sharks vs Cheetahs] and Stuart Dickinson [Cheetahs vs Highlanders],’ said Watson.
‘Pro hasn’t been appointed for any other Super 14 games this season, but he will be considered in future seasons.
‘It’s ridiculous that people think we [Sanzar] would suspend Pro after one and a half games. Marks is another story. He has reffed more than 10 Super Rugby games.’
By Gareth Duncan
160 Comments
11 Mar 2010, 06:55 am
I am enjoying my revenge vicariously through the SANZAR refereeing panel! Yeah!
11 Mar 2010, 06:55 am
Can’t wait to hear the comments from the Australasian bloggers…
11 Mar 2010, 06:57 am
They also suspended Pro Legoete – the ref that officiated the Cheetahs-Highlanders game and that came on in the second half of the Sharks-Cheetahs game.
I am glad that referees too can suffer the consequences of poor performances.
11 Mar 2010, 07:02 am
He he he
Hey wallabie, do you still think the saffas are paranoid…?
11 Mar 2010, 07:03 am
This is the best news all year. Now if we had this system just before the 2007 Super 14 final….
11 Mar 2010, 07:09 am
GREAT!!!
Freaking clown.
Glad that they are jydged on their performance and are not untouchable.
11 Mar 2010, 07:12 am
Sad to see Pro go…..
a good bit of humour is always a good thing….
11 Mar 2010, 07:14 am
Well I was expecting this to happen. The independent merit panel fires yet another convict.
Wallabie we told you that Aussie refs are *****!
11 Mar 2010, 07:15 am
@Predawn: I really need another look at the replay before I cast judgement as I only saw the game on replay.
If the pass was not going behind Kanko in flight, and if Beale’s obstruction was a definite slapdown as opposed to honestly trying to get an intercept, then agree a penalty try was warranted.
Marks was going to be in **** regardless of what decision he gave at that point, I don’t envy having to make that call.
Plus after seeing the Stormers get awarded a penalty try (and yellow card handed out) against the Brumbies for holding back a player, despite the final pass having gone out of play before the offence occured, I already think ref’s are way too quick to thinking they ‘know’ a try would have been scored in these situations.
11 Mar 2010, 07:16 am
Well, only Walsh to go and then Saffas cant blame the ref anymore, thats not gonna help the conpiracists is it?
still think Plonker should be added to the hit list too, but its different cause hes helped the Bulls huh?…. hmmmmmm
11 Mar 2010, 07:19 am
Good luck in your new career mr marks…
11 Mar 2010, 07:19 am
@DonutDunning: gees Donut, thats the first time the Stormers try has been mentioned on here, dont add a bit of reason to this site mate… seems its only when it goes against them that they complain…
11 Mar 2010, 07:21 am
@Predawn: ..
it’s wind in the sand broer…. relax, it’s history….
11 Mar 2010, 07:22 am
“Sanzar head of referees Lyndon Bray said Marks should have awarded the penalty try.” Are you reading this Keo?
Anyhow, all us fans want is accountability. I am sure it is not the end of his ref career.
So thats one ANZAC ref dow. How many to go?
11 Mar 2010, 07:23 am
He he ha
Plonker may be bad but he is nowhere near marks league ..haven’t seen such a bad red since Bryce Lawrence and George Ayoub..
We’ll keep Steve for entertainment value..
11 Mar 2010, 07:25 am
Good to see that SANZAR are clamping down on under performing refs. I also heard on the Radio this morning that Pro Legoete has also been canned of the S14 list. EVEN BETTER NEWS !!
Now all we need to do is get rid of the winking wanker, Steve Walsh and we will be a ok.
I still firmly believe that you DONT need independent refs, you need competent ones. Thought Bryce Lawrence (a kiwi) blew the Cheetahs Canes game very well.
11 Mar 2010, 07:29 am
Now hopefully he’ll crawl back into the toilet like the cockroach he is.
11 Mar 2010, 07:46 am
Yes yes yes now sanzar also agree,geez donutdunning remember this was also 2 minutes from time in a match winning situation, 99 persent beale went for the knockdown. The only problem I have is that the points are on the board. Noting we can do.sharks are still 0 in 4.
11 Mar 2010, 07:52 am
haha, all the people who thought it “wasnt a penalty try” can get stuffed, keo included.
in fact, keo led the blinkered mob on that one with his poor knowledge of the laws and subjective reporting.
marks didnt just withhold the pen try, he punished the sharks at the next lineout for an absolutely obscure interpretation that, if employed at every lineout, would see lineouts dissapear as a facet of rugby.
oh ja, he missed 3 forward passes in a single movement and then blew the sharks for a forward that wasnt.
he can cool his heels til next season as far as i am concerned.
this reeks of bryce lawrence, sharks vs brumbies 2008.
11 Mar 2010, 08:01 am
Bryce Lawrence would not have given Nonu a yellow card if Kaplan had not intervened. He was going to “have a serious talk to the player” until Kaplan said “at least a yellow card.” It does not matter which side of the fence you’re on, Nonu deserved to at least have been cited for that tackle. Apart from that, Bryce has potential
11 Mar 2010, 08:02 am
What do you have to say now Keo??? So confident were you in your views that you splashed them on BusinessDay only to be proven wrong!!!! So much for you knowledge of the laws of rugby!!!
Sharks were robbed and the refs pannel agrees, eat humble pie and admit you were wrong Keo!!!
11 Mar 2010, 08:07 am
@rangerman: this incompetent ref also allowed play to go on from an illegal lineout which led to Kankows try.
He is like your average Aussie, clueless about rugby.
11 Mar 2010, 08:11 am
Steve Walsh – we are watching you!
11 Mar 2010, 08:15 am
@DonutDunning:
yeah, i think many agreed the stormers were lucky with that one. as were the brumbies with theirs against the lions.
11 Mar 2010, 08:17 am
@DonutDunning:
if the ref awarded a penalty and a yellow, then he thought it was deliberate. ergo penatly try
11 Mar 2010, 08:19 am
I hope Marks enjoys his gold watch.Dickenson,Joubert are only marginally better than Marks
Aussies, suck it up you lying cheating convicts
11 Mar 2010, 08:25 am
Good – Still wont get the Sharks the extra 3 points that we need so desperately!
11 Mar 2010, 08:26 am
Next one must be Marius Jonker!
11 Mar 2010, 08:30 am
@DonutDunning: Mark Lawrence is skating on ice too, with his favourable reffing for the Stormers.
Kaplan must end his hate tirade against the Cheetah’s and his blatant adoration of the Bulls.
Walsh, is another one that must tread lightly this week.
11 Mar 2010, 08:31 am
KEO KRY VIR JOU !!! BWWWWWAAAAAHHHHHHH !!!
11 Mar 2010, 08:34 am
KEO ! Check this out !
You made some good points but when you started to say that ‘what if Kanko had tripped’ and a couple of other ridiculous what if’s …. you could say that about every ‘would have been scored’ penalty try !
Agree on the point of it being unusual that a penalty try be awarded that far out but the Sharks had worked the play to the point of the final pass and it was as likely to be scored as it was a cynical slap down … remember the word ‘down’ ,that always factors as well as the fact that it was one handed.
Me thinks you were trying to stand out and be the one who knows best.
11 Mar 2010, 08:36 am
Why is jonathan kaplan still reffing then?
11 Mar 2010, 08:39 am
wow…!
kudos to SANZAR….!!
but now they’ve admitted the Sharks were wronged… any chance of given the Sharks the log points they would’ve got…??
11 Mar 2010, 08:41 am
Justice! Now who was the guy who had the final say in Bakkies’s British Lions citing ? He should also hit the f*cking road
11 Mar 2010, 08:42 am
To be honest, Marks biggest mistake was yellow carding Beal. I think that was the first mistake, because i think its clear the arm movement was not a slap down and it looked for all money like an intercept attempt. So after getting that call wrong i think he realised it and was in two minds on whether to follow through with the penalty try.
If he had awarded a scrum for Beal knock on then none of this would have transpired.
The line put call was the right one, but the forward passes was a bit beyond belief.
11 Mar 2010, 08:43 am
@ufo: Come on dude, perhaps the Tahs would have scored from the kick off? There would still have been time left in the game, perhaps Pienaar (or was Kockett kicking?) would have missed the conversion, with the Sharks then only being up by one. The Tahs would then only have needed a penalty, or drop goal. There are lots of things which could have happened after this.
11 Mar 2010, 08:44 am
@ufo: No! No points.
11 Mar 2010, 08:45 am
Kaplan should go for remedial lessons while watson is at it.
11 Mar 2010, 08:51 am
so no one else will get the benefit of marks’s amazing reffing?
what a pity.
remedial classes?
11 Mar 2010, 08:53 am
@wallabie.: haha walla!
markis has been removed for being a kuk ref and now you want to talk about kaplan who is regarded as the worlds best ref.
mate, get your head out the aussie tabloid press and spend more time on keo, we will show you the truth
(not keo obviously, he was in your boat)
11 Mar 2010, 08:53 am
@WOLFMAN21:
Thing is the Tahs did nothing in the last few minutes to score anyway…
if they admit the penalty try should have been given… (and penalty tries are always given under the posts so no chance of either kicking missing the conversion…)
they would have won the game…
same in the olympics… runner gets banned for drugs gold goes to silver… there’s no “well if the gold winner hadn’t been there maybe bronze would’ve tried harder and could’ve beaten silver…”
fact is they have admitted the sharks should’ve got the 7 points… therefore they should get the log points too…
11 Mar 2010, 08:57 am
Lesson for Mr Keohane:
You have become cynical and bitter, its clouding your otherwise good rugby knowledge. It started when you couldnt take Mallet to task about what the **** was he doing for 3 years as a director of rugby at WP, no results, then you went into bed with JWWW, then you joined the bandwagon of “no structure” springboks.
I hope you read this and take remedial actions
11 Mar 2010, 08:57 am
@rangerman: Kaplan is openly biased against te Cheetahs Ranger. Openly.
Thank you Mr Watson for correcting the sensational story about axing and suspensions.
11 Mar 2010, 08:58 am
@ufo: ja, they will never change the result of a game and it wasnt really the tahs fault (besides for beale).
i blame the tmo also for awarding a try that no one could see.
but bygones, whats past is past and the sharks must suck it up and move on. we have had many decisions go our way in the past and the side must win games regardless of who is reffing.
the message to refs like markss is clear though:
if you are awarded a job where you have to take the position of judging 30 players, dont show yourself to be lacking in balls in front of a home crowd.
i am sure he will be back and hopefully next time he wont choke when it comes to making the tough decisions.
11 Mar 2010, 08:58 am
@ufo: The Tahs didn’t do anything at the end to score points because they were in their own 22, defending a lead with the Sharks on attack after being given a couple of penalties. The kick off would have stuck the Sharks in their 22, or perhaps the tahs would have stolen the ball from a short kick off.
There is a huge difference between running in the olympics and a rugby game.
11 Mar 2010, 08:59 am
@ufo:
Did the Tahs admit it? I read somewhere their official view is that Beale went for the intercept.
11 Mar 2010, 09:01 am
@rossoneri: no he is not rossoneri. i cite the bulls fans hatred of kaplan after 2005 or 2006 cc final as proof.
and if you believe that marks hasnt been punished PROPER then you are not taking into account the loss of earnings he incurs by not reffing AT ALL for the rest of the s14.
he has basically been sent to the wilderness to eat roots, shoots and any other **** he can dig up whilst keeping his whistle in his pocket.
11 Mar 2010, 09:03 am
Pro is a real joke. I thought I was the only one that feels Kaplan is doing everything in his power to screw my cheaters. Rossi, you support the Stormers?
11 Mar 2010, 09:03 am
Who would like to take bets on Keo responding on this thread??
11 Mar 2010, 09:03 am
I THINK KEO MUST WRIGHT AGAIN AND APOLOGISE AND ADMIT THEY WERE WRONG ITS ONLY FAIR
11 Mar 2010, 09:04 am
@pokkel: He did answer some of the questions posted to him in the past, but I haven’t seen him do it recently.
11 Mar 2010, 09:05 am
@Robzim: ag, beale admitted he didnt go for the intercept.
the replay says it all rob, he knocked the ball down and as the last defender, he was yellow carded for a pro foul but the pen try wasnt awarded because the ref bottled it.
no amount of conjecture can take away the fact that if it was a yellow card, it was a penalty try.
or when was the last time someone who had just come ontot he field was yellow carded for an attempted intercept?
its actually laughable really, i pity marks in fact for showing his lack of character in front of millions of people worldwide.
11 Mar 2010, 09:07 am
The great Os du Randt is on record that he was happy with Pro’s performance (especially wrt the scrums) in the second half during the Cheetahs – Sharks match. Most shark supporters wanted to lynch the poor Pro, it seems.
Vested interests?
11 Mar 2010, 09:08 am
keo is sadly a bit distant these days.
then again, the abuse he took at times on here must have been a bit hard to swallow.
the site is still user friendly and does an ok job of bringing us the news and is certainly a lot more conversation-inducing than any other i have seen.
but keo was so far off base with his article about the laws re penalty try’s that i worry about him.
11 Mar 2010, 09:08 am
Funny how the convict commentators only mention the ref when he dares to make a call against them.
11 Mar 2010, 09:08 am
@rangerman:
yeah ranger… by gones…
though I still think the sharks need to improve their on-filed attitude towwards the refs… if must have an effect if you are a ref and guys continually dis you…
@WOLFMAN21:
we’re both just supposing…
based on that particular game and the sharks getting 7 points… any other result would’ve been unlikely…
my point is… it’s not the games/sports I’m making an example of but the result… normally if a sports body rules that the result was wrong for whatever reason they will change the overall result too…
look I know it’s not gonna happen… just putting it out there…
11 Mar 2010, 09:12 am
@Robzim: and os doesnt have vested interests?
sheesh rob, that was nonsense, sorry.
look, i thought pro was fine but kaplan had been penalising the cheetahs for cynical ruck infringements for basically the whole first half.
when pro came on, the cheetahs got a clean sheet and could repeat the same infringements without fear of sanction.
the truth remains though that if kocky had kicked all his pens, we would have taken the game.
its been bleak to see how close the sharks have come in 3 out of 4 games this season and once again i say, wp musnt rely on beating the sharks at kp to get a semi or home semi.
this side will come good.
11 Mar 2010, 09:12 am
@Robzim:
of course they’re gonna say that… if I don’t admit to a crime or mistake… doesn’t mean I didn’t do it…
thing is Lyndon Bray is Kiwi and he called it deliberate…
11 Mar 2010, 09:13 am
@rangerman:
There was definitely a report in which Beale was quoted saying he went for the intercept. Some other Tah players also confirmed that.A blogger on RT (old Griquas) actually spoke to them himself and they told him so.
I do not know whether they have changed their minds since?
Personally I also think it should have been a penalty try but then again I wanted the Sharks to win.
11 Mar 2010, 09:13 am
@ufo: ja, look the sharks discipline MUST improve.
the du plessis broers must chill and play rugga.
11 Mar 2010, 09:15 am
@Die_Valk: If you rewatch it, they mentioned the ref a number of times with reference to his bad decisions against the Sharks. At the end of the game they stated the Sharks were unlucky due to the lack of a penalty try, the penalty against them at the maul at the end and a number of forward passes which were not blown but should have been or were blown that should not have been.
@ufo: It happens a lot in racing sports and individual sports, but can never happen in team sports. The same issue is raised concerning cricket, when a wicket is taken off a no-ball, or the umpire makes the wrong decision with an LBW. Retrospective reffing can’t work, but I wouldn’t mind the idea of a couple of appeals a game per team. Something like that could work. They have it in cricket, they have it in hockey. Perhaps it would work for rugby?
11 Mar 2010, 09:17 am
@rangerman:
57
My point is that everyone has vested interest – Os as well – that is the irony.
I for example believe that Jonker cheated the WP last year when he awarded 12 penalties in a row th the Cheatah’s but I ended in a hell of a fight with Cheetah for Ever because he believed the opposite.
We are all biased (some just more than the others)
11 Mar 2010, 09:17 am
@Robzim: rob, even if beale said he went for the intercept (one handed nogal) he is talking kuk.
he knew the try was on and he got away with it.
marks didnt.
anyways, must work now, bygones and good luck to your team this weekend, the sharks must now knock over some kiwi and aussie teams and help the other saffa sides out.
on that note, it seems the cheetahs and lions are helping in that regard (lions denied brumbies a bonus pt and cheethas beating the canes). what a pleasure.
11 Mar 2010, 09:18 am
@Robzim:
i am so biased sometimes, i must admit.
i try to be objective when it doesnt involve the boks or sharks
have a good day!
11 Mar 2010, 09:19 am
@rangerman:
#63
Thks Ranger, same to your team.
Eight in a row will be too much to handle
11 Mar 2010, 09:19 am
@poppa69: I met some kiwis who said Walsh has a bad rep for being an egotistcal tool in local NZ games as well, these guys were also fanatic Auckland fans as well……
11 Mar 2010, 09:19 am
@Robzim: The question becomes how do you measure the intentions of the player. He made a play at the ball in an upward motion with one hand. The ball bounced off his hand in an upward direction and went straight into touch.
How do you decide if this was an attempt at an intercept or a slap down?
11 Mar 2010, 09:19 am
@WOLFMAN21:
sure wolfman… cricket though has an established record of that…
this is almost unprecedented in rugby…
anyway… I actually feel for Marks… must be tough on him… I don’t believe he is deliberately biased… he made a call… wrong but not cheating…
hope they help him to improve and get back…
11 Mar 2010, 09:20 am
Well I never. Well done – doesn’t bring the three points to my team though.
11 Mar 2010, 09:26 am
@Gonzo Journalism: I agree with them, have never been a fan of his style of reffing, seems to need to be the one with all the attention, rather then a ref who is not noticeable (which IMO is how they should be)…
11 Mar 2010, 09:27 am
Justice, all though, it doesn’t really help the Sharks now does it.
But at least everyone knows Paul Marks is a plonker.
Lets get on with it.
11 Mar 2010, 09:31 am
@WOLFMAN21:
Yeah, it is tough – I also feel for the ref – few seconds to make a call – on his own in the middle of the field with players from all sides giving him “advice”, the crowd screaming, the cameras on him, Watson watching his every move like a hawk etc.
Terrible job, but at least they do some travelling and see the world
11 Mar 2010, 09:32 am
I’m sorry but there was never an attempt to catch the ball. When one goes for an intercept in that situation and with the ball that far away from you you will not have your feet rooted to the ground with one hand and stiff fingers stretched out.
11 Mar 2010, 09:36 am
@Robzim: Although they don’t travevl much under the new rules – they tend to ref in their own country!
The “advice” from the players has got worse recently, with players constantly shouting at the ref. Not good to see!
11 Mar 2010, 09:39 am
As a Cheetah I’ll admit Pro gave us some dodgy calls, but in my view he balanced Kaplan’s first-half performance out. Sharks need to leave the ref alone and play some rugby. They were unlucky, but when you play badly that’s bound to happen.
11 Mar 2010, 09:41 am
An Aussie ref cheats a South African side! Shock! Horror!
11 Mar 2010, 09:43 am
Cry-baby Bunting
Daddy’s gone a-hunting,
To get a little rabbit-skin
To wrap cry-baby Bunting in…
11 Mar 2010, 09:58 am
Unbelievable
How come nobody gets fired or axed these days always removed or redeployed..
Obviously everybody is taking a leaf out of our government’s organisational dynamics and pr
Comrade marks whilst being a brave and dedicated member of the refs cadre has been redeployed in a position more suited to his abilities…he continues to be a staunch supporter of the warratahs and a hero in the struggle to liberate the super 14 title..
I for one will miss the sound of his whistle..
11 Mar 2010, 10:08 am
@TheTackler: Sounds familiar…..somewhere during the RWC2007…I remember right after the AB’s lost to France
11 Mar 2010, 10:08 am
Bwahahahahaha Gunther!! Very funny! And sadly, very true…
11 Mar 2010, 10:13 am
it was a penalty try considering kanko skated through both wingers and the fullback for his 55 m intercept try earlier on in the match . this time there was no one in front of him and he ahd a 30m run in .even if the covering winger got him what was he gonna do against kanko in full speed and less than 20m to go ?
11 Mar 2010, 10:23 am
not sacked but wont ref again this season… sounds pretty sacked to me salary wise
makes me a bit happier…
helps my sharks foogerall tho..
but peeps, the ‘penalty try’ was just the cherry on top of a pathetic display of reffing…
i counted 13 forward passes not called on replay, just one from the sharks?!
penalties awarded to wrong team, like examples tahs not rolling away (for wich we got severely punished).. so it is unlikely that his performance was just jusdge on the match breaking knock down penalty try, but rather by an all round pathetic whistle blowing affair… i believe…
11 Mar 2010, 10:30 am
@crikey mate did you see that shark: Yip…a
ing performance at this level.. just rewards.
11 Mar 2010, 10:40 am
This is so awesome.
11 Mar 2010, 10:44 am
Yep it seems we get the dodgy calls all the time. Marks, Walssssshhhh, O:Brian and sons have a poor record reffing saffa sides.
Wllasssssssssshhh win rate agains saffa sides is now 87%. He personally is taking on all of south afrcia and winning. He too has the highest number of yellows against saffas just beind O;Brian.
Last years spear tackles were the joke of the century as we got pinged heaps but yet in the same game the oppostion gets off. Shame really as this comp is fianlly delivering excellent rugga.
Funny I turned on Fox sports and caught the first few minutes of an old Bok/aussie game with the likes of Chester playing.
The funny part was the penalty given to Australia when they dived over Jappie killed the ball yet Jaapie got pinged. Haha even the commentators(Bladen) thought that was wrong. Of of cousrse I turned off the tv before I had another stroke.
11 Mar 2010, 10:45 am
i would just like to thank Wallabie, Keo and especially Skopskiet for so valiantly defending their indefensible and at times comically ridiculous argument.
11 Mar 2010, 10:49 am
@KevinRack: Walsh better be next. That kind of percentage vs South Africa doesn’t happen by accident.
11 Mar 2010, 10:53 am
@Eminem: Yeah…how does this punk sleep at night..?…probably innebriated
11 Mar 2010, 10:59 am
I might be throwing a spanner in the works here because this ultimately involves the Sharks and the Boks, but I feel that John Smit should sometimes accept a referee’s decision and not always want 101 explanations. As anybody would know, when you’re constantly being bombarded with questions and you’re already under pressure, sooner or later you begin to become negative towards the person/people askingt he questions. Stay on the right side of the law and you won’t need to ask 101 questions.
Perhaps its a delay tactic to prevent the other team from taking quick taps, or it could be an honest case of the capatain having missed the incident. Either way, play the game and rather question your players for infringing rather than the ref dishing out the penalties. I know John is a likeable guy, and most refs regard him highly, but sooner or later in pressure situations with every decision by the ref being questioned, things will go against the Shaerks/Boks because the ref becomes callous.
11 Mar 2010, 11:01 am
@Eminem: Walsh has no backbone, therefore he will always favour the home team for fear of being booed by the crowd and not getting free drinks from the locals at the pub afterwards. You watch, if his next game is a close affair the home team will win, regardless of who they are.
11 Mar 2010, 11:06 am
hopefully the transformer that reffed the 2nd half of the sharks vs the cheetahs will also never ref again….
sad thing remains, 0/4 for the sharks despite the ref getting the boot oh oh sorry counceling… a few bullet for/from malema could be used here …
11 Mar 2010, 11:07 am
@GI POT: Nope. Sharks played Bulls at home in 2007 and lost. Walsh is ballsy enough to pull stunts right in your face. Wink wink.
11 Mar 2010, 11:08 am
@Richie_7: Callous..?..or crooked..?
11 Mar 2010, 11:08 am
@crikey mate did you see that shark: Pro did the right thing. Kaplan was cheating for the Sharks. That had to be stopped.
11 Mar 2010, 11:10 am
@crikey mate did you see that shark: Anyway. Your comment smacks of racism and apparently you did not read the article. Pro is not a S14 ref. That night Kaplan got ill. Extraordinary circumstances. But yeah go ahead and hate the black man if it makes you feel better.
11 Mar 2010, 11:17 am
Come now lil
The cheaters were all over the place at the breakdown..
Pro saw it differently, not ideal really to have two different refs in one game..
When you get carried away you obscure your very valid points..
11 Mar 2010, 11:19 am
@Richie_7: # 89
Some good points there.
11 Mar 2010, 11:21 am
Perhaps all those who were defending Marks, will actually now go and acquaint themselves with the relevant law (incl. some of the “journos” here on Keo). It’s not a long law- only a few lines, none of which include reference to the many “what if’s” that were supposed defence for Marks. “What if the pass had gone behind Kanko?”. “What if he’d dropped it?” or “What if the Xylons from Beta 9 had chosen that moment in time to invade, landing a search Pod on Kanko as he reached for the final pass?”.
The law talks about a PROBABLE try, which does not take into account the “what if” scenario.
But there are none so blind as those who will not see.
11 Mar 2010, 11:24 am
@Richie_7:
It’s a fair enough comment mate, but he’s probably just modelled himself on some of the other great captains, i.e the Sean Fitpatricks and George Gregans of the world.
Sean was constantly in the refs ear and as frustrating as it was for the opposition fan, it was obviously very effective. He was a great captain.
11 Mar 2010, 11:27 am
@rossoneri: I agree that comment is bang out of order.
11 Mar 2010, 11:27 am
@Storm outta hell: Both. He firstly won’t care anymore about what your interpretation is, and then things could turn nasty and he starts blowing against you intentionally thinking you’re trying to undermine him.
Players need to realise the only interpretation on the field that matters is the refs. Yeah sure, afterwards the refs could be taken to task for it, but by then its already too late.
11 Mar 2010, 11:28 am
@rossoneri: # 94
Skop called it Karma!
i just wander whose in charge of this Karma thingamajig called KARMA……. i mean surely something/someone must balance the books regarding who was done in and who’s turn it is next to be done in… and of course who should get a “lifeline” cause he was done in previously…
Helse organisasie en beheer wat daar toegepas moet word!
but anyway… i’m out.
all the best…
have a great day. Go BIG… you only live once…..
11 Mar 2010, 11:29 am
@Vetkoek: Sean and Gregan were in the refs ear, but also knew when to take a decision, and how to play the ref. John Smit is currently just shouting at the ref and arguing with him. His way of relating of communicating with the ref has certainly slipped.
11 Mar 2010, 11:29 am
@Vetkoek: Fair enough. And I forgot to say I don’t mind John questioningt he refs, but perhaps if he questioned every 3rd decision and not every decision they’d listen more.
11 Mar 2010, 11:31 am
@Richie_7: I hear you…it’s already a cauldron out there,so having a Captain in your face everytime you blow the whistle will fray the nerves…I can just picture Watson saying that’s no excuse..!
11 Mar 2010, 11:41 am
Regarding Marks – good riddance to bad rubbish.
11 Mar 2010, 11:49 am
watson
thinks he
can
explain
everything
11 Mar 2010, 12:33 pm
@rossoneri:
how is that racism? being a below average CC ref and then to be thrown the S14 whistle regardless of the circumstances.
and i will hate the black man and i will hate the white man… cause just as pathetic as pr is willie roos and jc fortuin… oops there its is, i hate the colored as well…
i hate everybody..
11 Mar 2010, 12:39 pm
@crikey mate did you see that shark: Everything is rascist to this one-eyed ratbaastud.
11 Mar 2010, 12:41 pm
@crikey mate did you see that shark: Like I said. If it makes you feel better to compare Pro after half a match to the likes of W Roos. Go ahead.
11 Mar 2010, 12:42 pm
@Storm outta hell: Looking for chommies? I told you. I have nothing to say to Jake White arse whipes. If you cannot handle me on your own say so. Don;t jump threads looking for back up for your fragile spine.
11 Mar 2010, 12:44 pm
@rossoneri:
i also have watched a few CC games and pro was no pro there, just as useless as JC and willy…
but i hate those damn whites blacks and coloureds though…
11 Mar 2010, 12:45 pm
@rossoneri: Go yodle a YOU,YOU..!!
11 Mar 2010, 12:56 pm
@crikey mate did you see that shark: You are at liberty to may special attention to Pro, and blame him for the Sharks loses and hate whomever you please. Like I said. It appears to make you feel better. But I didn’t hear you call Roos a transformation ref? Nooooo. That lable you saved with a purpose for Pro.
@Storm outta hell: Still can’t find back up you whus? Shame. I’ll go out and enjoy lunch whilst you try and assemble a lynch mob.
11 Mar 2010, 12:57 pm
@rossoneri: Wow, you are an angry person aren’t you?
11 Mar 2010, 12:59 pm
at least the ref’s pannel have taken Marks to task. I agree it should’ve been a penalty try, but at the end of the day the Sharks missed their opportunities and discipline was poor.
Beale may have had an upward action (it wasn’t downwards as some are saying), but it was a slap nonetheless and a outstretched slap shows no intention of trying to recover the ball.
11 Mar 2010, 13:02 pm
Great thing is Paul Marks is down to be linesman for the Sharks/Brumbies match!
11 Mar 2010, 13:03 pm
@CharlieBrown: Heheheheh – I love it1 Finally the smug @ssholes are being kept honest. Steve Wally is next, heed my words…..
11 Mar 2010, 13:23 pm
Lekker !
Actually, something I thought of. The Sharks have had Brown, Kaplan (before he had to go off to attend to his previous evening’s Durban Chicken Vindaloo issue), Pro ‘eish…ek kannie rukby verstaanie’ Legoete and Paul ‘it was an intercept’ Marks.
Other than Kaplan, thats 4 very poor referees. Who is reffing us next Steve ‘another dop pleash’ Walsh ?
11 Mar 2010, 14:05 pm
@Dusky: Brumbies vs Sharks in Canberra
Referee: Garratt Williamson (New Zealand)
Assistant referees: Paul Marks (Australia), Simon Moore (Australia)
Television match official: Matt Goddard (Australia)
Garratt, who the f@ck is Garratt?
11 Mar 2010, 14:08 pm
Reffing is ruining our beautiful game. Bring back short arm ELVs, lessens the influence of the ref. Maybe Full arm penalties should be awarded to attacking team in the 22. Need to rationalise penalties. Small offences should be short arms.
11 Mar 2010, 15:25 pm
Wow! A bit of a over-reaction on Marks. Sure he made mistakes but to bench him for the rest of the season is ridiculous. Suspension of 2 or 3 games at least, but the whole season? If I read what everyone wants here there will be no more refs by the end of the season. And who would then have ruined our beautiful games? Now can we also start suspending players for a complete season if they get a yellow or red card?
11 Mar 2010, 15:25 pm
@Ratel Brussow (MSIUR): I promise, if I were the Sharks CEO, I would notify SANZAR that if I get another ‘rub of the green’ loss, the Sharks will not play another match in this years Super 14 – and they can sue the union all they like. It will get enough news coverage that this issue finally gets addressed.
I see the panel that decided that Paul Marks would not continue in this years Super 14, compiled of Andre Watson, Lyndon Bray and Tappe Henning all believed the correct action was a penalty try.
So – that ends the speculation. The Sharks were robbed.
11 Mar 2010, 15:30 pm
@Ratel Brussow (MSIUR):
He’s an inexperienced Kiwi referee – he’s only reffed one Super 14 match so far, Saturday will be only his second Super 14 game.
11 Mar 2010, 15:33 pm
@WP Till I Die:
He’s from Wellington, by the way…don’t worry, your boys are not playing the Hurricanes
11 Mar 2010, 15:49 pm
@WP Till I Die: He better be super biased in the Sharks favour, or he will be gone as well. I think Plumtree is on the warpath now, his job is on the line.
11 Mar 2010, 16:20 pm
@Dusky: The Sharks stand a better chance of winning a game by not turning up at the stadium than they do by turning up.
11 Mar 2010, 21:04 pm
Now how bout some action on Steve Walsh? his display was disgraceful!
12 Mar 2010, 00:33 am
Die_Valk :
March 11th, 2010 at 9:08 am
“Funny how the convict commentators only mention the ref when he dares to make a call against them.”
I sat up last night and watched a 2000 Tri nations game. The SA commentators were probably the most biased and bitter commentators I’ve ever heard. Even my SA mates watching had a laugh at how bad they were. Don’t even try to bring commentators into it when your boys deliver the sort of rubbish like that. Commentators will always support their local teams, and it would be dissapointing to think that they didn’t.
If we really want to talk about some bad reffs lets focus on some of the **** that goes around in europe – I can think of an Englishman and an Irishman who are probably the two worst reffs I’ve ever seen. And don’t even start about Jonker and Kaplan. Have SA teams ever lost against foreign opposition when those two have been reffing?
How about you just get the chip off your shoulder and worry about the rugby – not about the refereeing because South Africa produces just as much rubbish as every other nation.
P.S. – I love the convict comments – don’t you live in a third world country?? I’ve seen more crime in a week in SA than I’ve ever seen in this “convict” country. Fair banter though.
12 Mar 2010, 01:07 am
At least a convict has actually been convicted, hey? Not running around loose on the streets, making mayhem.
12 Mar 2010, 01:19 am
@TheTackler: Good point.
Can’t wait to see the mayhem when the Soccer (football) kicks off later this year.
12 Mar 2010, 01:27 am
@jeest:
There wont be any mayhem.
At least you won’t see it on TV.
12 Mar 2010, 01:36 am
@Robzim: As long as it’s not on TV thats fine then.
12 Mar 2010, 01:49 am
@jeest:
I never said it would be fine, I only said you won’t see it on TV.
I also said there won’t be any maythem (the maythen that you said you cannot wait to see)
Draw your own conclusions.
It is not that hard.
12 Mar 2010, 01:57 am
@Robzim: I understood the original comment Rob
12 Mar 2010, 02:01 am
@jeest:
Ag, OK man, that’s cool.
I trust it will be ok during the wc.
We have enough **** in this country already and cannot afford to stuff that up as well.
12 Mar 2010, 02:04 am
@Robzim: So who’s your tips for the weekend mate? Hopefully we wont see another Tahs/Sharks type game
12 Mar 2010, 02:14 am
@jeest:
Yeah, hopefully not.
Unfortunately I do not have any hot tips. It is tough to predict at this stage.
Maybe the Sharks will win – they have lost 7 games in a row now (including the last 3 during 2009) and on paper they have quite a good team and have to start winning some or other time – so maybe they will surprise the Brumbies.
The Stormers/Canes game could also go down the wire – the Stormers are notorious for losing after a great performance, so I wont be surprised if the Canes beat them at Newlands.
I also think the Crusaders will beat the Chiefs away from home but that will not really be a surprise.
Stormers/Canes will probably be the pick of the weekends games.
12 Mar 2010, 02:23 am
@Robzim: You could be right there – Brumbies have been ordinary to date. Elsom and Giteau not really performing and Mortlock looks old and tired. Having said that – Mortlock didn’t look to good in 06 but bounced back to his best in time for the WC.
Lions are probably a chance. even though they look pretty bad they are playing a team that has been horrendous in 3 games this year.
Stormers should be a good game. Have a friend who is a CT boy so apparently I’m watching that one.
12 Mar 2010, 02:26 am
@jeest:
Where are u based?
12 Mar 2010, 02:28 am
London / Brisbane – depends on what time of year it is. Brisbane at the moment. You?
12 Mar 2010, 02:34 am
@jeest:
Cape Town.
Spent about 6 weeks in Aus last year for work. Have quite a number of family members down there (mainly Sydney and Fremantle) and visit the country quite often. Great place.
I am off now – blogged and prepared a submission at the same time.
See u later.
12 Mar 2010, 08:38 am
This is another example of excessive power of referees, this time the SANZAR referee panel shaming one of its own.
I’m not saying Paul Marks was right not to award a penalty try. I’m saying referees are expected to do more than one human being can do on a rugby field, with its multidimensionality and multiple laws.
Match officiating power must be spread to include other minds, with greater checks and balances.
Teams must be allowed two or three appeals per game. TV refereeing technology and practice have advanced sufficiently to allow this. Most of the errors in this game, and many others, would have been reversed. An overhead camera would assist the process further, for offsides and forward passes. Then the shaming on referees would not be necessary.
Imagine how Paul Marks feels. Imagine now that you were him.
12 Mar 2010, 09:23 am
@WOLFMAN21: 127: I was trying to think of some clever comeback, but I must admit that you are probably right. But at present I guess Sharks supporters live in hope from one week to the next.
A Sharks win over the Brumbies will certainly help other SA teams as well, so, here’s to a Sharks win !
GO SHARKS !
12 Mar 2010, 09:29 am
@sglazer: Problem with referring decisions is that for Bismarks apparent forward pass, the referee had already killed the scoring opportunity by stopping play.
In cases like Beale’s ‘attempted intercept’ it would have been interesting to get another referees opinion.
Apparently Andre Watson, Tappe Henning and Lyndon Bray all agreed that there should have been a penalty try but I still feel that Paul Marks (although he had a terrible game in general) didn’t really do the ‘wrong’ thing in the penalty try call. In cases like that, the on field referee needs to make a call, and in that specific case you can argue what was right and what was wrong for hours. Tough one for Marks.
But – whats done is done. Its over now, and focus should shift on to the next game.
Just one request: Can the Sharks stop getting the ‘rub of the green’ please ? A little bit of luck in the opposing direction would be nice. We are probably already out of the playoffs, so a bit of good fortune would be great.
12 Mar 2010, 09:41 am
@sglazer:
mate, he must feel bad cause he had a terrible game (13 forward passes missed not just the penalty try)…
in life you screw up, you take the consequences, its awesome that they are eventually applying to some pathetic refs..
in sa willie roos, pro and jc fortuin can do with a bit of ‘help’ and whistlessnes…
marks was pathetic and i hope he feels ridden with shame and humiliation… still doesnt help the sharks, but you have to pay if you screw up…
12 Mar 2010, 09:42 am
shame on brother marks SHAME!!!
12 Mar 2010, 09:52 am
@crikey mate did you see that shark: I tell you this new guy that is refereeing the Brumbies/Sharks game tomorrow must be slightly nervous.
Watch him give the Sharks a penalty try from the kickoff….just in case he screws up later in the game.
Its good referees realise there is recourse for their actions.
12 Mar 2010, 10:13 am
Steve Walsh had a worse game than Paul Marks. So, this is another case of inconsistent officiating, this time by the referees panel.
And it’s all very well Andre Watson et al sitting on their high horses, with even more power now as referees overseers, with their egos bloating even more, but each one of them had awful games themselves, in the case of Andre, many awful ones.
This all goes to the same point: the game of rugby requires the spreading of officiating power beyond just one person. Too many results are inaccurate, probably as much as 30% of results.
We are expecting too much of referees. Sanctioning is stupid.
12 Mar 2010, 10:43 am
@sglazer: I know the option of having two referees on the field is being tested at schoolboy level.
I once heard that a on-field referee sees about 20% of the game. So – its logical that they will make mistakes.
Maybe, Paul Marks didn’t ‘see’ the ‘attempted intercept’ from Beale, or maybe Steve Walsh didn’t ‘see’ the 3 Bulls players scrapping for the ball off their feet at the ruck, nor did he ‘see’ the knock on just before that ruck formed. Habana scored a try after that ruck which robbed a certain team of the Super 14 trophy.
Funny though that Walsh didn’t ‘see’ because video footage shows him standing right next to the ruck – about a meter or two away looking straight at what was happening.
I wonder how many swigs of the good ol elixir he took at half time ?
12 Mar 2010, 10:56 am
The referee just asked Phil Waugh if he is getting ‘quick enough ball’. How does that work ?
Ref: ‘Oy there Phil – are those South Africans allowing you to get to the ball mate ?’
Phil: ‘No mate, they are trying to keep it all for themselves’
Ref: ‘Dont worry mate, just like we discussed at that Barby we had last weekend, when you allowed me to play with some of your sheep, I will just penalise them a bit, and stop them from trying to beat your team ok ?’
Phil: ‘Much appreciated mate. You can have whatever sheep Paulie Marks left over after our victory party last Saturday night’
Can the Aussies play ANY sport – ANYTHING without cheating ?
12 Mar 2010, 10:57 am
Still no comment from keo?
Such conviction in his statements on why the ref was right in not awarding the penalty try.
Surely the sanzar panel has it wrong again?
12 Mar 2010, 11:06 am
@Stawm: I see you still havent lost your disdain for the small man….
12 Mar 2010, 11:17 am
Not at all, I find it all amusing really. The way some people speak as if their words are final and true.
I think skopskiet does the same thing – anyone with an opinion different to his own is labelled as a know-all – he doesnt see how he could be wrong.
12 Mar 2010, 11:27 am
@Stawm: The small man has been rather quiet of late.
Rumour has it that he is keeping all his cards up his sleeve until he applies for the SANZAR CEO post, which is being advertised this weekend
12 Mar 2010, 11:48 am
@Bod:
Maybe his application for aussie citizenship is also about to be launched?
12 Mar 2010, 12:35 pm
Watson will play it safe. It’s cosy on the gravy train.
12 Mar 2010, 18:01 pm
@rossoneri: 114 – Hey Rossi… has anyone told you yet that you really say it best when you say nothing at all!! Shut up, Jayzez!! – give it up please.
You don’t have to keep trying to prove yourself the whole time. Everyoe has made their mind up about you long ago – you’re like a huge **** on the pathway… everyone just steps around you. Do yourself a favour & just man up a little.
12 Mar 2010, 22:15 pm
@Dusky:
Makes sense that refs see so little. When they have tunnel vision to focus on aspects of play that are close in, they lose broader vision, and vice versa.
Having more than one referee on the field makes total sense, plus give the linesmen authority to check offsides, and give each team two or three appeals per game. Results will be much more accurate.
It’s so dumb that week-in week-out we have results decided largely by officiating errors. How doff can we be.
Wakey-wakey IRB. We’re waiting for you. You can’t leave it up to the referees panel to decide on these changes. Their egos are loving the over-authority that they have, even though they are getting by it.
12 Mar 2010, 22:16 pm
… even though they are getting hurt by it.
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