Marks ‘removed’, not axed
11 Mar 2010
André Watson says referee Paul Marks has not been sacked.
According to the Australian media, Marks was fired with immediate effect by Sanzar following their review of his performance in the Sharks’ 25-21 defeat to the Waratahs.
Marks made a controversial call towards the end of the game where he did not award the Durban franchise a penalty try when Tahs fullback Kurtley Beale obstructed a clear scoring opportunity. If the try was scored, the Sharks would have been in a strong position to win the match.
However, Saru head of referees and member of the Sanzar referee panel Watson has confirmed with keo.co.za that this information is false.
‘I’ve read this news in the papers but the truth is he has not been fired or suspended,’ said Watson. ‘He has, however, been removed from the Sanzar panel of referees until further notice following the review of his performance last weekend.
‘He has been sent to a remedial process where he will be able to learn from his mistakes. Should we feel he has learned from his errors, Sanzar might allow him back on the panel. But I don’t think he will ref another game in the Super 14 this season.’
More rumours suggested South African referee Pro Legoete was also suspended. Watson denied this as well.
‘Let me get this straight, Pro has just helped out this season. He has reffed one and a half games, where he stood in for Jonathan Kaplan [second half - Sharks vs Cheetahs] and Stuart Dickinson [Cheetahs vs Highlanders],’ said Watson.
‘Pro hasn’t been appointed for any other Super 14 games this season, but he will be considered in future seasons.
‘It’s ridiculous that people think we [Sanzar] would suspend Pro after one and a half games. Marks is another story. He has reffed more than 10 Super Rugby games.’
By Gareth Duncan
160 Comments
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11 Mar 2010, 09:04 am
@pokkel: He did answer some of the questions posted to him in the past, but I haven’t seen him do it recently.
11 Mar 2010, 09:05 am
@Robzim: ag, beale admitted he didnt go for the intercept.
the replay says it all rob, he knocked the ball down and as the last defender, he was yellow carded for a pro foul but the pen try wasnt awarded because the ref bottled it.
no amount of conjecture can take away the fact that if it was a yellow card, it was a penalty try.
or when was the last time someone who had just come ontot he field was yellow carded for an attempted intercept?
its actually laughable really, i pity marks in fact for showing his lack of character in front of millions of people worldwide.
11 Mar 2010, 09:07 am
The great Os du Randt is on record that he was happy with Pro’s performance (especially wrt the scrums) in the second half during the Cheetahs – Sharks match. Most shark supporters wanted to lynch the poor Pro, it seems.
Vested interests?
11 Mar 2010, 09:08 am
keo is sadly a bit distant these days.
then again, the abuse he took at times on here must have been a bit hard to swallow.
the site is still user friendly and does an ok job of bringing us the news and is certainly a lot more conversation-inducing than any other i have seen.
but keo was so far off base with his article about the laws re penalty try’s that i worry about him.
11 Mar 2010, 09:08 am
Funny how the convict commentators only mention the ref when he dares to make a call against them.
11 Mar 2010, 09:08 am
@rangerman:
yeah ranger… by gones…
though I still think the sharks need to improve their on-filed attitude towwards the refs… if must have an effect if you are a ref and guys continually dis you…
@WOLFMAN21:
we’re both just supposing…
based on that particular game and the sharks getting 7 points… any other result would’ve been unlikely…
my point is… it’s not the games/sports I’m making an example of but the result… normally if a sports body rules that the result was wrong for whatever reason they will change the overall result too…
look I know it’s not gonna happen… just putting it out there…
11 Mar 2010, 09:12 am
@Robzim: and os doesnt have vested interests?
sheesh rob, that was nonsense, sorry.
look, i thought pro was fine but kaplan had been penalising the cheetahs for cynical ruck infringements for basically the whole first half.
when pro came on, the cheetahs got a clean sheet and could repeat the same infringements without fear of sanction.
the truth remains though that if kocky had kicked all his pens, we would have taken the game.
its been bleak to see how close the sharks have come in 3 out of 4 games this season and once again i say, wp musnt rely on beating the sharks at kp to get a semi or home semi.
this side will come good.
11 Mar 2010, 09:12 am
@Robzim:
of course they’re gonna say that… if I don’t admit to a crime or mistake… doesn’t mean I didn’t do it…
thing is Lyndon Bray is Kiwi and he called it deliberate…
11 Mar 2010, 09:13 am
@rangerman:
There was definitely a report in which Beale was quoted saying he went for the intercept. Some other Tah players also confirmed that.A blogger on RT (old Griquas) actually spoke to them himself and they told him so.
I do not know whether they have changed their minds since?
Personally I also think it should have been a penalty try but then again I wanted the Sharks to win.
11 Mar 2010, 09:13 am
@ufo: ja, look the sharks discipline MUST improve.
the du plessis broers must chill and play rugga.
11 Mar 2010, 09:15 am
@Die_Valk: If you rewatch it, they mentioned the ref a number of times with reference to his bad decisions against the Sharks. At the end of the game they stated the Sharks were unlucky due to the lack of a penalty try, the penalty against them at the maul at the end and a number of forward passes which were not blown but should have been or were blown that should not have been.
@ufo: It happens a lot in racing sports and individual sports, but can never happen in team sports. The same issue is raised concerning cricket, when a wicket is taken off a no-ball, or the umpire makes the wrong decision with an LBW. Retrospective reffing can’t work, but I wouldn’t mind the idea of a couple of appeals a game per team. Something like that could work. They have it in cricket, they have it in hockey. Perhaps it would work for rugby?
11 Mar 2010, 09:17 am
@rangerman:
57
My point is that everyone has vested interest – Os as well – that is the irony.
I for example believe that Jonker cheated the WP last year when he awarded 12 penalties in a row th the Cheatah’s but I ended in a hell of a fight with Cheetah for Ever because he believed the opposite.
We are all biased (some just more than the others)
11 Mar 2010, 09:17 am
@Robzim: rob, even if beale said he went for the intercept (one handed nogal) he is talking kuk.
he knew the try was on and he got away with it.
marks didnt.
anyways, must work now, bygones and good luck to your team this weekend, the sharks must now knock over some kiwi and aussie teams and help the other saffa sides out.
on that note, it seems the cheetahs and lions are helping in that regard (lions denied brumbies a bonus pt and cheethas beating the canes). what a pleasure.
11 Mar 2010, 09:18 am
@Robzim:
i am so biased sometimes, i must admit.
i try to be objective when it doesnt involve the boks or sharks
have a good day!
11 Mar 2010, 09:19 am
@rangerman:
#63
Thks Ranger, same to your team.
Eight in a row will be too much to handle
11 Mar 2010, 09:19 am
@poppa69: I met some kiwis who said Walsh has a bad rep for being an egotistcal tool in local NZ games as well, these guys were also fanatic Auckland fans as well……
11 Mar 2010, 09:19 am
@Robzim: The question becomes how do you measure the intentions of the player. He made a play at the ball in an upward motion with one hand. The ball bounced off his hand in an upward direction and went straight into touch.
How do you decide if this was an attempt at an intercept or a slap down?
11 Mar 2010, 09:19 am
@WOLFMAN21:
sure wolfman… cricket though has an established record of that…
this is almost unprecedented in rugby…
anyway… I actually feel for Marks… must be tough on him… I don’t believe he is deliberately biased… he made a call… wrong but not cheating…
hope they help him to improve and get back…
11 Mar 2010, 09:20 am
Well I never. Well done – doesn’t bring the three points to my team though.
11 Mar 2010, 09:26 am
@Gonzo Journalism: I agree with them, have never been a fan of his style of reffing, seems to need to be the one with all the attention, rather then a ref who is not noticeable (which IMO is how they should be)…
11 Mar 2010, 09:27 am
Justice, all though, it doesn’t really help the Sharks now does it.
But at least everyone knows Paul Marks is a plonker.
Lets get on with it.
11 Mar 2010, 09:31 am
@WOLFMAN21:
Yeah, it is tough – I also feel for the ref – few seconds to make a call – on his own in the middle of the field with players from all sides giving him “advice”, the crowd screaming, the cameras on him, Watson watching his every move like a hawk etc.
Terrible job, but at least they do some travelling and see the world
11 Mar 2010, 09:32 am
I’m sorry but there was never an attempt to catch the ball. When one goes for an intercept in that situation and with the ball that far away from you you will not have your feet rooted to the ground with one hand and stiff fingers stretched out.
11 Mar 2010, 09:36 am
@Robzim: Although they don’t travevl much under the new rules – they tend to ref in their own country!
The “advice” from the players has got worse recently, with players constantly shouting at the ref. Not good to see!
11 Mar 2010, 09:39 am
As a Cheetah I’ll admit Pro gave us some dodgy calls, but in my view he balanced Kaplan’s first-half performance out. Sharks need to leave the ref alone and play some rugby. They were unlucky, but when you play badly that’s bound to happen.
11 Mar 2010, 09:41 am
An Aussie ref cheats a South African side! Shock! Horror!
11 Mar 2010, 09:43 am
Cry-baby Bunting
Daddy’s gone a-hunting,
To get a little rabbit-skin
To wrap cry-baby Bunting in…
11 Mar 2010, 09:58 am
Unbelievable
How come nobody gets fired or axed these days always removed or redeployed..
Obviously everybody is taking a leaf out of our government’s organisational dynamics and pr
Comrade marks whilst being a brave and dedicated member of the refs cadre has been redeployed in a position more suited to his abilities…he continues to be a staunch supporter of the warratahs and a hero in the struggle to liberate the super 14 title..
I for one will miss the sound of his whistle..
11 Mar 2010, 10:08 am
@TheTackler: Sounds familiar…..somewhere during the RWC2007…I remember right after the AB’s lost to France
11 Mar 2010, 10:08 am
Bwahahahahaha Gunther!! Very funny! And sadly, very true…
11 Mar 2010, 10:13 am
it was a penalty try considering kanko skated through both wingers and the fullback for his 55 m intercept try earlier on in the match . this time there was no one in front of him and he ahd a 30m run in .even if the covering winger got him what was he gonna do against kanko in full speed and less than 20m to go ?
11 Mar 2010, 10:23 am
not sacked but wont ref again this season… sounds pretty sacked to me salary wise
makes me a bit happier…
helps my sharks foogerall tho..
but peeps, the ‘penalty try’ was just the cherry on top of a pathetic display of reffing…
i counted 13 forward passes not called on replay, just one from the sharks?!
penalties awarded to wrong team, like examples tahs not rolling away (for wich we got severely punished).. so it is unlikely that his performance was just jusdge on the match breaking knock down penalty try, but rather by an all round pathetic whistle blowing affair… i believe…
11 Mar 2010, 10:30 am
@crikey mate did you see that shark: Yip…a
ing performance at this level.. just rewards.
11 Mar 2010, 10:40 am
This is so awesome.
11 Mar 2010, 10:44 am
Yep it seems we get the dodgy calls all the time. Marks, Walssssshhhh, O:Brian and sons have a poor record reffing saffa sides.
Wllasssssssssshhh win rate agains saffa sides is now 87%. He personally is taking on all of south afrcia and winning. He too has the highest number of yellows against saffas just beind O;Brian.
Last years spear tackles were the joke of the century as we got pinged heaps but yet in the same game the oppostion gets off. Shame really as this comp is fianlly delivering excellent rugga.
Funny I turned on Fox sports and caught the first few minutes of an old Bok/aussie game with the likes of Chester playing.
The funny part was the penalty given to Australia when they dived over Jappie killed the ball yet Jaapie got pinged. Haha even the commentators(Bladen) thought that was wrong. Of of cousrse I turned off the tv before I had another stroke.
11 Mar 2010, 10:45 am
i would just like to thank Wallabie, Keo and especially Skopskiet for so valiantly defending their indefensible and at times comically ridiculous argument.
11 Mar 2010, 10:49 am
@KevinRack: Walsh better be next. That kind of percentage vs South Africa doesn’t happen by accident.
11 Mar 2010, 10:53 am
@Eminem: Yeah…how does this punk sleep at night..?…probably innebriated
11 Mar 2010, 10:59 am
I might be throwing a spanner in the works here because this ultimately involves the Sharks and the Boks, but I feel that John Smit should sometimes accept a referee’s decision and not always want 101 explanations. As anybody would know, when you’re constantly being bombarded with questions and you’re already under pressure, sooner or later you begin to become negative towards the person/people askingt he questions. Stay on the right side of the law and you won’t need to ask 101 questions.
Perhaps its a delay tactic to prevent the other team from taking quick taps, or it could be an honest case of the capatain having missed the incident. Either way, play the game and rather question your players for infringing rather than the ref dishing out the penalties. I know John is a likeable guy, and most refs regard him highly, but sooner or later in pressure situations with every decision by the ref being questioned, things will go against the Shaerks/Boks because the ref becomes callous.
11 Mar 2010, 11:01 am
@Eminem: Walsh has no backbone, therefore he will always favour the home team for fear of being booed by the crowd and not getting free drinks from the locals at the pub afterwards. You watch, if his next game is a close affair the home team will win, regardless of who they are.
11 Mar 2010, 11:06 am
hopefully the transformer that reffed the 2nd half of the sharks vs the cheetahs will also never ref again….
sad thing remains, 0/4 for the sharks despite the ref getting the boot oh oh sorry counceling… a few bullet for/from malema could be used here …
11 Mar 2010, 11:07 am
@GI POT: Nope. Sharks played Bulls at home in 2007 and lost. Walsh is ballsy enough to pull stunts right in your face. Wink wink.
11 Mar 2010, 11:08 am
@Richie_7: Callous..?..or crooked..?
11 Mar 2010, 11:08 am
@crikey mate did you see that shark: Pro did the right thing. Kaplan was cheating for the Sharks. That had to be stopped.
11 Mar 2010, 11:10 am
@crikey mate did you see that shark: Anyway. Your comment smacks of racism and apparently you did not read the article. Pro is not a S14 ref. That night Kaplan got ill. Extraordinary circumstances. But yeah go ahead and hate the black man if it makes you feel better.
11 Mar 2010, 11:17 am
Come now lil
The cheaters were all over the place at the breakdown..
Pro saw it differently, not ideal really to have two different refs in one game..
When you get carried away you obscure your very valid points..
11 Mar 2010, 11:19 am
@Richie_7: # 89
Some good points there.
11 Mar 2010, 11:21 am
Perhaps all those who were defending Marks, will actually now go and acquaint themselves with the relevant law (incl. some of the “journos” here on Keo). It’s not a long law- only a few lines, none of which include reference to the many “what if’s” that were supposed defence for Marks. “What if the pass had gone behind Kanko?”. “What if he’d dropped it?” or “What if the Xylons from Beta 9 had chosen that moment in time to invade, landing a search Pod on Kanko as he reached for the final pass?”.
The law talks about a PROBABLE try, which does not take into account the “what if” scenario.
But there are none so blind as those who will not see.
11 Mar 2010, 11:24 am
@Richie_7:
It’s a fair enough comment mate, but he’s probably just modelled himself on some of the other great captains, i.e the Sean Fitpatricks and George Gregans of the world.
Sean was constantly in the refs ear and as frustrating as it was for the opposition fan, it was obviously very effective. He was a great captain.
11 Mar 2010, 11:27 am
@rossoneri: I agree that comment is bang out of order.
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