Marks ‘removed’, not axed
11 Mar 2010
André Watson says referee Paul Marks has not been sacked.
According to the Australian media, Marks was fired with immediate effect by Sanzar following their review of his performance in the Sharks’ 25-21 defeat to the Waratahs.
Marks made a controversial call towards the end of the game where he did not award the Durban franchise a penalty try when Tahs fullback Kurtley Beale obstructed a clear scoring opportunity. If the try was scored, the Sharks would have been in a strong position to win the match.
However, Saru head of referees and member of the Sanzar referee panel Watson has confirmed with keo.co.za that this information is false.
‘I’ve read this news in the papers but the truth is he has not been fired or suspended,’ said Watson. ‘He has, however, been removed from the Sanzar panel of referees until further notice following the review of his performance last weekend.
‘He has been sent to a remedial process where he will be able to learn from his mistakes. Should we feel he has learned from his errors, Sanzar might allow him back on the panel. But I don’t think he will ref another game in the Super 14 this season.’
More rumours suggested South African referee Pro Legoete was also suspended. Watson denied this as well.
‘Let me get this straight, Pro has just helped out this season. He has reffed one and a half games, where he stood in for Jonathan Kaplan [second half - Sharks vs Cheetahs] and Stuart Dickinson [Cheetahs vs Highlanders],’ said Watson.
‘Pro hasn’t been appointed for any other Super 14 games this season, but he will be considered in future seasons.
‘It’s ridiculous that people think we [Sanzar] would suspend Pro after one and a half games. Marks is another story. He has reffed more than 10 Super Rugby games.’
By Gareth Duncan
160 Comments
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11 Mar 2010, 11:27 am
@Storm outta hell: Both. He firstly won’t care anymore about what your interpretation is, and then things could turn nasty and he starts blowing against you intentionally thinking you’re trying to undermine him.
Players need to realise the only interpretation on the field that matters is the refs. Yeah sure, afterwards the refs could be taken to task for it, but by then its already too late.
11 Mar 2010, 11:28 am
@rossoneri: # 94
Skop called it Karma!
i just wander whose in charge of this Karma thingamajig called KARMA……. i mean surely something/someone must balance the books regarding who was done in and who’s turn it is next to be done in… and of course who should get a “lifeline” cause he was done in previously…
Helse organisasie en beheer wat daar toegepas moet word!
but anyway… i’m out.
all the best…
have a great day. Go BIG… you only live once…..
11 Mar 2010, 11:29 am
@Vetkoek: Sean and Gregan were in the refs ear, but also knew when to take a decision, and how to play the ref. John Smit is currently just shouting at the ref and arguing with him. His way of relating of communicating with the ref has certainly slipped.
11 Mar 2010, 11:29 am
@Vetkoek: Fair enough. And I forgot to say I don’t mind John questioningt he refs, but perhaps if he questioned every 3rd decision and not every decision they’d listen more.
11 Mar 2010, 11:31 am
@Richie_7: I hear you…it’s already a cauldron out there,so having a Captain in your face everytime you blow the whistle will fray the nerves…I can just picture Watson saying that’s no excuse..!
11 Mar 2010, 11:41 am
Regarding Marks – good riddance to bad rubbish.
11 Mar 2010, 11:49 am
watson
thinks he
can
explain
everything
11 Mar 2010, 12:33 pm
@rossoneri:
how is that racism? being a below average CC ref and then to be thrown the S14 whistle regardless of the circumstances.
and i will hate the black man and i will hate the white man… cause just as pathetic as pr is willie roos and jc fortuin… oops there its is, i hate the colored as well…
i hate everybody..
11 Mar 2010, 12:39 pm
@crikey mate did you see that shark: Everything is rascist to this one-eyed ratbaastud.
11 Mar 2010, 12:41 pm
@crikey mate did you see that shark: Like I said. If it makes you feel better to compare Pro after half a match to the likes of W Roos. Go ahead.
11 Mar 2010, 12:42 pm
@Storm outta hell: Looking for chommies? I told you. I have nothing to say to Jake White arse whipes. If you cannot handle me on your own say so. Don;t jump threads looking for back up for your fragile spine.
11 Mar 2010, 12:44 pm
@rossoneri:
i also have watched a few CC games and pro was no pro there, just as useless as JC and willy…
but i hate those damn whites blacks and coloureds though…
11 Mar 2010, 12:45 pm
@rossoneri: Go yodle a YOU,YOU..!!
11 Mar 2010, 12:56 pm
@crikey mate did you see that shark: You are at liberty to may special attention to Pro, and blame him for the Sharks loses and hate whomever you please. Like I said. It appears to make you feel better. But I didn’t hear you call Roos a transformation ref? Nooooo. That lable you saved with a purpose for Pro.
@Storm outta hell: Still can’t find back up you whus? Shame. I’ll go out and enjoy lunch whilst you try and assemble a lynch mob.
11 Mar 2010, 12:57 pm
@rossoneri: Wow, you are an angry person aren’t you?
11 Mar 2010, 12:59 pm
at least the ref’s pannel have taken Marks to task. I agree it should’ve been a penalty try, but at the end of the day the Sharks missed their opportunities and discipline was poor.
Beale may have had an upward action (it wasn’t downwards as some are saying), but it was a slap nonetheless and a outstretched slap shows no intention of trying to recover the ball.
11 Mar 2010, 13:02 pm
Great thing is Paul Marks is down to be linesman for the Sharks/Brumbies match!
11 Mar 2010, 13:03 pm
@CharlieBrown: Heheheheh – I love it1 Finally the smug @ssholes are being kept honest. Steve Wally is next, heed my words…..
11 Mar 2010, 13:23 pm
Lekker !
Actually, something I thought of. The Sharks have had Brown, Kaplan (before he had to go off to attend to his previous evening’s Durban Chicken Vindaloo issue), Pro ‘eish…ek kannie rukby verstaanie’ Legoete and Paul ‘it was an intercept’ Marks.
Other than Kaplan, thats 4 very poor referees. Who is reffing us next Steve ‘another dop pleash’ Walsh ?
11 Mar 2010, 14:05 pm
@Dusky: Brumbies vs Sharks in Canberra
Referee: Garratt Williamson (New Zealand)
Assistant referees: Paul Marks (Australia), Simon Moore (Australia)
Television match official: Matt Goddard (Australia)
Garratt, who the f@ck is Garratt?
11 Mar 2010, 14:08 pm
Reffing is ruining our beautiful game. Bring back short arm ELVs, lessens the influence of the ref. Maybe Full arm penalties should be awarded to attacking team in the 22. Need to rationalise penalties. Small offences should be short arms.
11 Mar 2010, 15:25 pm
Wow! A bit of a over-reaction on Marks. Sure he made mistakes but to bench him for the rest of the season is ridiculous. Suspension of 2 or 3 games at least, but the whole season? If I read what everyone wants here there will be no more refs by the end of the season. And who would then have ruined our beautiful games? Now can we also start suspending players for a complete season if they get a yellow or red card?
11 Mar 2010, 15:25 pm
@Ratel Brussow (MSIUR): I promise, if I were the Sharks CEO, I would notify SANZAR that if I get another ‘rub of the green’ loss, the Sharks will not play another match in this years Super 14 – and they can sue the union all they like. It will get enough news coverage that this issue finally gets addressed.
I see the panel that decided that Paul Marks would not continue in this years Super 14, compiled of Andre Watson, Lyndon Bray and Tappe Henning all believed the correct action was a penalty try.
So – that ends the speculation. The Sharks were robbed.
11 Mar 2010, 15:30 pm
@Ratel Brussow (MSIUR):
He’s an inexperienced Kiwi referee – he’s only reffed one Super 14 match so far, Saturday will be only his second Super 14 game.
11 Mar 2010, 15:33 pm
@WP Till I Die:
He’s from Wellington, by the way…don’t worry, your boys are not playing the Hurricanes
11 Mar 2010, 15:49 pm
@WP Till I Die: He better be super biased in the Sharks favour, or he will be gone as well. I think Plumtree is on the warpath now, his job is on the line.
11 Mar 2010, 16:20 pm
@Dusky: The Sharks stand a better chance of winning a game by not turning up at the stadium than they do by turning up.
11 Mar 2010, 21:04 pm
Now how bout some action on Steve Walsh? his display was disgraceful!
12 Mar 2010, 00:33 am
Die_Valk :
March 11th, 2010 at 9:08 am
“Funny how the convict commentators only mention the ref when he dares to make a call against them.”
I sat up last night and watched a 2000 Tri nations game. The SA commentators were probably the most biased and bitter commentators I’ve ever heard. Even my SA mates watching had a laugh at how bad they were. Don’t even try to bring commentators into it when your boys deliver the sort of rubbish like that. Commentators will always support their local teams, and it would be dissapointing to think that they didn’t.
If we really want to talk about some bad reffs lets focus on some of the **** that goes around in europe – I can think of an Englishman and an Irishman who are probably the two worst reffs I’ve ever seen. And don’t even start about Jonker and Kaplan. Have SA teams ever lost against foreign opposition when those two have been reffing?
How about you just get the chip off your shoulder and worry about the rugby – not about the refereeing because South Africa produces just as much rubbish as every other nation.
P.S. – I love the convict comments – don’t you live in a third world country?? I’ve seen more crime in a week in SA than I’ve ever seen in this “convict” country. Fair banter though.
12 Mar 2010, 01:07 am
At least a convict has actually been convicted, hey? Not running around loose on the streets, making mayhem.
12 Mar 2010, 01:19 am
@TheTackler: Good point.
Can’t wait to see the mayhem when the Soccer (football) kicks off later this year.
12 Mar 2010, 01:27 am
@jeest:
There wont be any mayhem.
At least you won’t see it on TV.
12 Mar 2010, 01:36 am
@Robzim: As long as it’s not on TV thats fine then.
12 Mar 2010, 01:49 am
@jeest:
I never said it would be fine, I only said you won’t see it on TV.
I also said there won’t be any maythem (the maythen that you said you cannot wait to see)
Draw your own conclusions.
It is not that hard.
12 Mar 2010, 01:57 am
@Robzim: I understood the original comment Rob
12 Mar 2010, 02:01 am
@jeest:
Ag, OK man, that’s cool.
I trust it will be ok during the wc.
We have enough **** in this country already and cannot afford to stuff that up as well.
12 Mar 2010, 02:04 am
@Robzim: So who’s your tips for the weekend mate? Hopefully we wont see another Tahs/Sharks type game
12 Mar 2010, 02:14 am
@jeest:
Yeah, hopefully not.
Unfortunately I do not have any hot tips. It is tough to predict at this stage.
Maybe the Sharks will win – they have lost 7 games in a row now (including the last 3 during 2009) and on paper they have quite a good team and have to start winning some or other time – so maybe they will surprise the Brumbies.
The Stormers/Canes game could also go down the wire – the Stormers are notorious for losing after a great performance, so I wont be surprised if the Canes beat them at Newlands.
I also think the Crusaders will beat the Chiefs away from home but that will not really be a surprise.
Stormers/Canes will probably be the pick of the weekends games.
12 Mar 2010, 02:23 am
@Robzim: You could be right there – Brumbies have been ordinary to date. Elsom and Giteau not really performing and Mortlock looks old and tired. Having said that – Mortlock didn’t look to good in 06 but bounced back to his best in time for the WC.
Lions are probably a chance. even though they look pretty bad they are playing a team that has been horrendous in 3 games this year.
Stormers should be a good game. Have a friend who is a CT boy so apparently I’m watching that one.
12 Mar 2010, 02:26 am
@jeest:
Where are u based?
12 Mar 2010, 02:28 am
London / Brisbane – depends on what time of year it is. Brisbane at the moment. You?
12 Mar 2010, 02:34 am
@jeest:
Cape Town.
Spent about 6 weeks in Aus last year for work. Have quite a number of family members down there (mainly Sydney and Fremantle) and visit the country quite often. Great place.
I am off now – blogged and prepared a submission at the same time.
See u later.
12 Mar 2010, 08:38 am
This is another example of excessive power of referees, this time the SANZAR referee panel shaming one of its own.
I’m not saying Paul Marks was right not to award a penalty try. I’m saying referees are expected to do more than one human being can do on a rugby field, with its multidimensionality and multiple laws.
Match officiating power must be spread to include other minds, with greater checks and balances.
Teams must be allowed two or three appeals per game. TV refereeing technology and practice have advanced sufficiently to allow this. Most of the errors in this game, and many others, would have been reversed. An overhead camera would assist the process further, for offsides and forward passes. Then the shaming on referees would not be necessary.
Imagine how Paul Marks feels. Imagine now that you were him.
12 Mar 2010, 09:23 am
@WOLFMAN21: 127: I was trying to think of some clever comeback, but I must admit that you are probably right. But at present I guess Sharks supporters live in hope from one week to the next.
A Sharks win over the Brumbies will certainly help other SA teams as well, so, here’s to a Sharks win !
GO SHARKS !
12 Mar 2010, 09:29 am
@sglazer: Problem with referring decisions is that for Bismarks apparent forward pass, the referee had already killed the scoring opportunity by stopping play.
In cases like Beale’s ‘attempted intercept’ it would have been interesting to get another referees opinion.
Apparently Andre Watson, Tappe Henning and Lyndon Bray all agreed that there should have been a penalty try but I still feel that Paul Marks (although he had a terrible game in general) didn’t really do the ‘wrong’ thing in the penalty try call. In cases like that, the on field referee needs to make a call, and in that specific case you can argue what was right and what was wrong for hours. Tough one for Marks.
But – whats done is done. Its over now, and focus should shift on to the next game.
Just one request: Can the Sharks stop getting the ‘rub of the green’ please ? A little bit of luck in the opposing direction would be nice. We are probably already out of the playoffs, so a bit of good fortune would be great.
12 Mar 2010, 09:41 am
@sglazer:
mate, he must feel bad cause he had a terrible game (13 forward passes missed not just the penalty try)…
in life you screw up, you take the consequences, its awesome that they are eventually applying to some pathetic refs..
in sa willie roos, pro and jc fortuin can do with a bit of ‘help’ and whistlessnes…
marks was pathetic and i hope he feels ridden with shame and humiliation… still doesnt help the sharks, but you have to pay if you screw up…
12 Mar 2010, 09:42 am
shame on brother marks SHAME!!!
12 Mar 2010, 09:52 am
@crikey mate did you see that shark: I tell you this new guy that is refereeing the Brumbies/Sharks game tomorrow must be slightly nervous.
Watch him give the Sharks a penalty try from the kickoff….just in case he screws up later in the game.
Its good referees realise there is recourse for their actions.
12 Mar 2010, 10:13 am
Steve Walsh had a worse game than Paul Marks. So, this is another case of inconsistent officiating, this time by the referees panel.
And it’s all very well Andre Watson et al sitting on their high horses, with even more power now as referees overseers, with their egos bloating even more, but each one of them had awful games themselves, in the case of Andre, many awful ones.
This all goes to the same point: the game of rugby requires the spreading of officiating power beyond just one person. Too many results are inaccurate, probably as much as 30% of results.
We are expecting too much of referees. Sanctioning is stupid.
12 Mar 2010, 10:43 am
@sglazer: I know the option of having two referees on the field is being tested at schoolboy level.
I once heard that a on-field referee sees about 20% of the game. So – its logical that they will make mistakes.
Maybe, Paul Marks didn’t ‘see’ the ‘attempted intercept’ from Beale, or maybe Steve Walsh didn’t ‘see’ the 3 Bulls players scrapping for the ball off their feet at the ruck, nor did he ‘see’ the knock on just before that ruck formed. Habana scored a try after that ruck which robbed a certain team of the Super 14 trophy.
Funny though that Walsh didn’t ‘see’ because video footage shows him standing right next to the ruck – about a meter or two away looking straight at what was happening.
I wonder how many swigs of the good ol elixir he took at half time ?
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