Super 14 Preview: Round 5
12 Mar 2010
Jon Cardinelli and Ryan Vrede analyse the key match-ups and pick the winners at the weekend.
The Reds and Cheetahs continue to prove the naysayers wrong, and it’s small consolation the central franchise aren’t playing this week. You can also back the Reds to come good against the Force on Sunday, because John Mitchell’s side look firm favourites to take the wooden spoon.
It’ll be another mixed bag for South African sides this weekend with the Bulls and Stormers affirming their places in the top 4 while the Lions and Sharks continue to dwell in the Super 14 cellar.
KEO.CO.ZA SUCCESS RATE
Vrede: 19/27 (70%)
JC: 18/27 (67%)
Round 4
Vrede: 4/6
JC: 4/6
Round 3
Vrede: 4/7
JC: 4/7
Round 2
Vrede: 6/7
JC: 5/7
Round 1
Vrede: 5/7
JC: 5/7
CHIEFS vs CRUSADERS, HAMILTON, FRIDAY 08:35
VREDE’S CALL: I sense there will be more hurt in Hickville. The Crusaders cannot match the Chiefs’ flair, but their organisation and tactical intelligence will see them triumph. The Crusaders have the second-best defensive record in the tournament and their ability to stifle their opponents’ momentum at the breakdown has been at the heart of their success from a defensive perspective. The Saders, led by Richie McCaw, will strive to slow the Chiefs’ recycle, and the Reds showed last week that when you do that, a team that prides itself on being the tournament’s great entertainers are reduced to an ordinary looking outfit. Crusaders by 5
JC’S CALL: Dan Carter schooled former protege Stephen Brett last week, and he’ll get the better of Test understudy Stephen Donald on Friday. Andy Ellis’ injury is a big blow, as the Crusaders’ scrumhalf has been key to the Cantabs’ rumble on attack. But don’t write off the youngsters in this Crusaders out wide, or indeed, up front. They’ve played as a team, and as long as McCaw and Carter stay fit, they’ll be difficult to beat. The Chiefs have the broken-field runners to punish an errant approach, but the Crusaders won’t play to their opponent’s strengths. Crusaders by 7
Chiefs – 15 Mils Muliaina (c), 14 Lelia Masaga, 13 Richard Kahui, 12 Callum Bruce, 11 Sitiveni Sivivatu, 10 Stephen Donald, 9 Brendon Leonard, 8 Colin Bourke, 7 Tanerau Latimer, 6 Liam Messam, 5 Craig Clarke, 4 Romana Graham, 3 Nathan White, 2 Aled de Malmanche, 1 Sona Taumalolo.
Subs: 16 Vern Kamo, 17 Toby Smith, 18 Culum Retallick, 19 Luke Braid, 20 Junior Poluleuligaga, 21 Mike Delany, 22 Dwayne Sweeney.
Crusaders – 15 Jared Payne, 14 Sean Maitland, 13 Robbie Fruean, 12 Ryan Crotty, 11 Zac Guildford, 10 Daniel Carter, 9 Kahn Fotuali’i, 8 Kieran Read, 7 George Whitelock, 6 Richie McCaw (c), 5 Isaac Ross, 4 Brad Thorn, 3 Owen Franks, 2 Ti’i Paulo, 1 Wyatt Crockett.
Subs: 16 Corey Flynn, 17 Ben Franks, 18 Sam Whitelock, 19 Thomas Waldrom, 20 Willi Heinz, 21 Adam Whitelock, 22 Colin Slade.
WARATAHS vs LIONS, SYDNEY, FRIDAY 10:40
VREDE’S CALL: I’ve been caned for being less than complimentary about Dick Muir’s mob, but their results have provided ample ammunition and their stubborn refusal to adopt a more measured approach will see them sink in Sydney. After months of working with the squad, Muir still doesn’t know what his best combinations are, and this, combined with tactical naivety and a group of players incapable of making his expansive vision a reality, suggests more pain is on the way. The Tahs have been average to date, but even a fourth gear performance will be enough to down the visiting pussycats. They’ll be patient on defence and feed off the Lions’ errors (which should be plentiful), controlled through the phases, and have enough class in other facets to bank the points. In his post-match assessment last week Muir said ‘victory is around the corner.’ He fails to see that there are no corners when you’re running in a circle and returning to an ineffective game plan time after time. Waratahs by 12
JC’S CALL: The Lions have improved over the last two weeks in that they went from a 12-point loss to the Hurricanes to a 11-point loss to the Brumbies. What’s next? A 10-point loss to the Wobblitahs? Phil Waugh’s charges have been average, kind of like Australia’s version of the Blues. They’ll trouble the Lions at scrum time and bank big points through Berrick Barnes’ boot unless the Lions’ front row produce a disciplined display. If the Wobblitahs are smart, they’ll slow it right down. Everybody should be shooting for five log points against the Lions, but patience is key. The hosts lack patience as well as synergy at the moment, and while they’ll win comfortably, it will be without the bonus point. Waratahs by 10
Waratahs – 15 Sosene Anesi, 14 Lachie Turner, 13 Tom Carter, 12 Berrick Barnes, 11 Drew Mitchell, 10 Daniel Halangahu, 9 Luke Burgess, 8 Wycliff Palu, 7 Phil Waugh (c), 6 Dave Dennis, 5 Kane Douglas, 4 Dean Mumm, 3 Al Baxter, 2 Tatafu Polota-Nau, 1 Benn Robinson.
Subs: 16 Damien Fitzpatrick, 17 Sekope Kepu, 18 Will Caldwell, 19 Ben Mowen, 20 Josh Holmes, 21 Kurtley Beale, 22 Rob Horne.
Lions – 15 Earl Rose, 14 Tonderai Chavhanga, 13 Walter Venter, 12 Doppies la Grange, 11 Wandile Mjekevu, 10 Carlos Spencer, 9 JP Joubert, 8 Todd Clever, 7 Derick Minnie, 6 Cobus Grobbelaar (c), 5 Willem Stoltz, 4 Franco van der Merwe, 3 Kevin Buys, 2 Hannes Franklin, 1 Heinke van der Merwe.
Subs: 16 Charles Emslie, 17 JC Janse van Rensburg, 18 Jacques Lombaard, 19 Robert Kruger, 20 Jano Vermaak, 21 Burton Francis, 22 Wigan Pekeur.
BRUMBIES vs SHARKS, CANBERRA, SATURDAY 10:40
VREDE’S CALL: Hope has been the staple diet of Sharks supporters in recent weeks, but unfortunately for them a close-run defeat against the Tahs only served to create an unrealistic hope of success against the Brumbies. They improved in Sydney, that’s certain, but against a well-rounded unit like the Brumbies, that improvement will prove too small. Where their next try will come from is uncertain because their misfiring pack – which is laden with Springboks – has failed to lay an attacking foundation, and their attempts to remedy that problem will be complicated by the fact that they front up to a formidable set of heavies. Nullifying the hard-running loose trio of Stephen Hoiles, George Smith and Rocky Elsom will be a top priority, as that triumvirate has given the Brumbies the go-forward in winning efforts. Discipline has to be maintained as it has cost the Sharks dearly to date. I can’t see the Sharks snapping their losing streak in Canberra, but their fans will hope I’m wrong. Brumbies by 7
JC’S CALL: The Sharks believe they were robbed last week in Sydney, but they have only themselves to blame. The Waratahs should have piled on the points during the period where the visitors had two men in the sin-bin. The Brumbies, spearheaded by Matt Giteau, won’t miss that opportunity. The Sharks have brought in Andy Goode to kick for the corners and win them territory, but the Durban team has shown very few examples where a sustained build-up has produced points. In Goode and Stefan Terblanche, they have the kickers to win the booting battle, but their pack is out of form and their backline is struggling to trouble defences. The traditional Sharks’ grit will keep them in touch, but they’re missing that little bit extra needed to win the close matches. Brumbies by 5
Brumbies – 15 Adam Ashley-Cooper, 14 Pat McCabe, 13 Stirling Mortlock, 12 Christian Lealiifano, 11 Francis Fainifo, 10 Matt Giteau, 9 Josh Valentine, 8 Stephen Hoiles (c), 7 George Smith, 6 Rocky Elsom, 5 Mark Chisholm, 4 Ben Hand, 3 Salesi Maafu, 2 Stephen Moore, 1 Ben Alexander.
Subs: 16 Huia Edmonds, 17 Guy Shepherdson, 18 Justin Harrison, 19 Mitchell Chapman, 20 Patrick Phibbs, 21 Matt Toomua, 22 Tyrone Smith.
Sharks - 15. Stefan Terblanche, 14. Odwa Ndungane, 13. Adrian Jacobs, 12 Riaan Swanepoel, 11. JP Pietersen, 10, Andy Goode, 9 Ruan Pienaar, 8. Ryan Kankowski, 7. Willem Alberts, 6. Jacques Botes, 5. Johann Muller, 4. Steven Sykes, 3 John Smit (c), 2 Bismarck du Plessis, 1 Beast Mtawarira.
Subs: 16 Craig Burden, 17 Jannie du Plessis, 18 Alistair Hargreaves, 19 Jean Deysel, 20 Keegan Daniel , 21 Rory Kockott, 22 Waylon Murray.
BULLS vs HIGHLANDERS, PRETORIA, SATURDAY 17:05
VREDE’S CALL: Who’d be the Highlanders? They face the most complete side in the tournament at a ground where they haven’t lost in 13 matches, and do so without three key players (Jimmy Cowan, Michael Hobbs and Adam Thomson). It’s futile entering into in-depth analyses of this match. The Landers will be competitive at the set phases but will still take a hammering. Bulls by 30
JC’S CALL: The Landers are over it. The Stormers, firing at 70%, took maximum points off them last week and it’d be an absolute surprise if the rampant Bulls failed to do the same. The slippery slide back to the bottom has begun for Glenn Moore’s men, and playing their last tour fixture at altitude could be what KOs their ambitions of improvement. The Bulls’ lineout will dominate, their loose forwards will thrive, and their halfbacks won’t deviate from a blueprint that’s secured them two Super Rugby titles. Bulls by 20
Bulls – 15 Zane Kirchner, 14 Gerhard vd Heever, 13 Stephan Dippenaar, 12 Wynand Olivier, 11 Francois Hougaard, 10 Morné Steyn, 9 Fourie du Preez, 8 Pierre Spies, 7 Dewald Potgieter, 6 Derick Kuün, 5 Victor Matfield (c), 4 Danie Rossouw, 3 Werner Kruger, 2 Gary Botha, 1 Gurthrö Steenkamp.
Subs: 16 Bandise Maku, 17 Rossouw de Klerk, 18 Flip van der Merwe, 19 Deon Stegmann, 20 Jacques-Louis Potgieter, 21 Jaco van der Westhuyzen, 22 Pedrie Wannenburg.
Highlanders – 15 Israel Dagg, 14 Ben Smith, 13 Kenny Lynn, 12 Jason Shoemark, 11 Fetu’u Vainikolo, 10 Matt Berquist, 9 Sean Romans, 8 Steven Stephano, 7 Alando Soakai, 6 Tim Boys, 5 Tom Donnelly, 4 Josh Bekhuis, 3 Chris King, 2 Jason MacDonald, 1 Jamie Mackintosh.
Subs: 16 Jason Rutledge, 17 Bronson Murray, 18 Hayden Triggs, 19 John Hardie, 20 Scott Cowan, 21 Robbie Robinson, 22 James Paterson.
STORMERS vs HURRICANES, CAPE TOWN, SATURDAY 19:10
VREDE’S CALL: The Canes don’t mind playing at Newlands mostly because they enjoy a level of support from certain sectors of the Cape coloured community. Expect those folks to be in full voice, shouting abuse at the home team while waxing lyrical about the skill of Ma’a Nonu and Conrad Smith. All this while leaning sideways in their seats because of the weight of the chips on their shoulders. For this reason I hope the Stormers beat the Wellington boys. Juvenile perhaps, but seeing them trudge home in despair will give me a deep sense of satisfaction. To make my Saturday a pleasant one, the Stormers will have to resist the urge to get loose in their approach, both with ball in hand and in their tactical kicking as the Canes are masters of exploiting such opportunities. They must build their game plan around patient phase play, tackle point domination on attack, and defence which would them allow them to stem the Canes’ attacking flow. They also have to be more clinical with the chances they create. I trust they’ll achieve this and bank the points, sending those canary yellow-clad Capetonians home hurting. Stormers by 7
JC’S CALL: It was a big call to persist with Sireli Naqelevuki after one decent performance. Gio Aplon is not just a fantastic runner, but his powerful left boot would have been useful in a contest where territory is so important. Piri Weepu is right in saying the physical aspect is paramount, and you don’t want to be absorbing to much punishment on your own side of halfway. This is a big clash for the hosts, who if successful, should head Down Under with five wins from six (their next opponents, the Cheetahs, will battle without Heinrich Brussow). They need to win this match at all costs, and that means the pressure is firmly on goal-kicker Joe Pietersen, who is likely to have a fair number of opportunities. The Stormers have been clinical at the breakdown, their lineout should be a premier platform while the scrum should achieve parity against a Canes pack that’s lacked bite in the initial rounds. You can’t underestimate the Canes, and the Stormers will need to realise that all their dominance will count for nought if they lose concentration in the final quarter. It will be close, but the Stormers will maintain momentum with another win. Stormers by 7
Stormers –15 Joe Pietersen, 14 Sireli Naqelevuki, 13 Jaque Fourie, 12 Juan de Jongh, 11 Bryan Habana, 10 Peter Grant, 9 Dewaldt Duvenage, 8 Duane Vermeulen, 7 Francois Louw, 6 Schalk Burger, 5 Andries Bekker, 4 Anton van Zyl, 3 Brok Harris, 2 Tiaan Liebenberg, 1 Wicus Blaauw.
Subs: 16 Deon Fourie, 17 JC Kritzinger, 18 De Kock Steenkamp, 19 Pieter Louw, 20 Ricky Januarie, 21 Lionel Cronje, 22 Gio Aplon.
Hurricanes – 15 Cory Jane, 14 Tamati Ellison, 13 Conrad Smith, 12 Ma’a Nonu, 11 David Smith, 10 Willie Ripia, 9 Piri Weepu, 8 Rodney So’oialo, 7 Scott Waldrom, 6 Victor Vito, 5 Michael Paterson, 4 Bryn Evans, 3 Neemia Tialata, 2 Andrew Hore, 1 Jacob Ellison.
Subs: 16 Dane Coles, 17 John Schwalger, 18 Jeremy Thrush, 19 Karl Lowe, 20 Tyson Keats, 21 Aaron Cruden, 22 Alapati Leiua.
REDS vs WESTERN FORCE, BRISBANE, SUNDAY 08:30
VREDE’S CALL: A week off wouldn’t have helped the Force’s progress and against the confident Reds, their campaign is set to plunge to new lows. Reds coach Ewen McKenzie has managed to identify, harness and play to the strengths of the players at his disposal while not compromising he fundamental building blocks of the game – forward dominance. They’ll be superior at the set phases, the breakdown and on attack. Defensive lapses have cost them, but if they can eliminate or minimise those, the Force won’t trouble them. Reds by 10
JC’S CALL: The Reds have scored some outstanding tries in this year’s competition and look set to add to their 2010 success with another scalp. The Force have been disappointing across the board, and you can’t really see them upsetting the Reds in Brisbane. Quade Cooper is on fire at the moment, be it on attack or through is quirky attempts at goal. He’ll be the dangerman, as behind a winning pack, he has the ability to embarrass a disorganised defence. Reds by 10
Reds – 15 Peter Hynes, 14 Luke Morahan, 13 Digby Ioane, 12 Anthony Faingaa, 11 Brando Va’aulu, 10 Quade Cooper, 9 Will Genia (c), 8 Leroy Houston, 7 Daniel Braid, 6 Scott Higginbotham, 5 Van Humphries, 4 Rob Simmons, 3 Laurie Weeks, 2 Saia Faingaa, 1 Ben Daley.
Subs: 16 Sean Hardman, 17 Greg Holmes, 18 Adam Byrnes, 19 Jake Schatz, 20 Ben Lucas, 21 Morgan Turinui, 22 Will Chambers.
Western Force - 15 Dane Haylett-Petty, 14 Scott Staniforth, 13 Ryan Cross, 12 James O’Connor, 11 Nick Cummins, 10 David Hill, 9 Brett Sheehan, 8 Richard Stanford, 7 Matt Hodgson, 6 Ben McCalman, 5 Nathan Sharpe (captain), 4 Sam Wykes, 3 Tim Fairbrother, 2 Ryan Tyrrell, 1 Nic Henderson.
Subs: 16 Pek Cowan, 17 Matt Dunning, 18 Tom Hockings, 19 Jono Jenkins, 20 Chris O’Young, 21 Sam Harris, 22 Mitch Inman.
343 Comments
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12 Mar 2010, 04:41 am
“Clinical”?
It’s replaced “we’ll take lots of positives” in the cliche of the season contest.
12 Mar 2010, 05:26 am
The Chifs to win, the Reds to crush the Force.
The Reds are an inspiration…what a diference a good coach makes. We should nicking some kiwi coaches for our franchises!
Bulls and highlanders will be closer than expcected. Highlanders have been a pleasure to watch.
The Stormers?Canes game should be a cracker.
Thought Nonu was suspended.
The contest between Hore and Liebenberg should be great.
I do expect biff and bash here with Walsssssssshhh giving the Stormers yellow cards.
Walsshhhhhh will blow the Stomers off the park unless the crowd focus on abusing him and the captain puts pressure on him with the Journos doing their bit. Otherwise his ratio against Saffas will go up to 88%.
I hate Cheats, Steve P@#s.
12 Mar 2010, 07:14 am
@KevinRack:
a good coach does make a diffirence, but a good 9 and 10 makes the reds play better, this is where i think the Stormers are lacking especially a 10, look grant is a good player i just dont think he is the best option at 10 for the stmrs, he will be better suited at 12.
chiefs 6
tahs 8
brumbies 10
Bulls by plenty
hur 5
reds 10
12 Mar 2010, 07:56 am
Superbul – papsak drinkers?
People are leaving your little cyber laager precisely because of your and your ilk’s “bulle is die beste” pielvleggery on RT.
Strangely I notice that it has become so apparent that there is even a thread raising, and then dismissing same based on a couple of “phone calls” to the pielvleggers in chief.
Bit like asking a couple of Nazis whether the holocaust was a good idea.
Even Ed_the_Lion left that site because the laager turned into bulls-above-all site.
There’s a damning indictment if there ever was one.
Gaan sit en blog met jou blou onderbroek en ‘n brandewyn in die hand en moenie jou vrou moer Vanaand nie.
12 Mar 2010, 14:08 pm
Peter Grant’s boot is fine. The key is lineout-maul time. If Stormers can steal and maul, Canes will rue the day.
12 Mar 2010, 14:24 pm
Form SA team:
15. Steyn (Joe P)
14. Mapoe
13. Fourie
12. Olivier (JdV)
11. Habanero
10. M. Steyn (P. Grant)
9. FduP (Duvenage)
8. Spies (Joe v N)
7. Smith
6. Burger (Deysel)
5. Matfield (c)
4. Bekker
3. BJ Botha
2. Brits (Bismarck)
1. CJ (Gurthro)
12 Mar 2010, 14:44 pm
@haribaldi:
Steyn at 15-form based on what? when he has been playin 12 in France??
Fourie-Form????What form??Dropping an avg of 4/5 passes a game,has made less than 5 line breakers in 4 GAMES!!!!
Burger-last game was his best,BUT Stegmann has been the best openside in S14 let alone SA.And Deysel has been dogsh*t for Sharks-even dropped to bench at present
Joe van Niekerk???-based on French Top 14 displays??? pffft,if that the case then Sowerby should be in reckoning,as well as Michael Claasens,Marius Joubert,Mujati. etc..No chance
CJ-WTF??? guy has been struggling at Leinster even playing majority of games off the wood.Has been a bomb of a signing.
Schalk Brits-???? lmao
Nah Boet that “form XV”…flawed
12 Mar 2010, 18:57 pm
I am deeply concerned about the selection philosophy of the current Stormers coaching staff. It looks like we are going the dour, stampkar rugby way of Jake White. Not surprising in view of Alistair Coetzee’s involvement with White. In the heydays of Cape rugby, Sereli would never have made it at the cost of a brilliant player like Aplon. Similarly Liebenberg would not have been first choice before Deon Fourie after Fourie’s superb game last week. The point is: Sereli and Liebenberg choose to run OVER their opponents and are stopped by the second line of defence (if they get beyond the first). Aplon and Fourie prefer to run round their opponents or beat them with skilful side steps and speed. They normally pass at least more than two opponents at a time and gain lots of meters of ground. As it is we have a world class wing, Brian Habana, who has not received a single ball from a full backline movement in 320 minutes of S14 rugby. Compare that to Brock Harris. He was the receiver in the backline more times than Habana. The ball simply does not pass the first receiver. What Jaque Fourie is currently doing at outside centre can just as well be done by Tiaan Liebenberg. Coetzee’s obsession with brawns rather than brains irritates me endlessly. Just watch on Saturday. The Hurricanes’ flyhalf will with sensible kicking behind Sereli force him to turn around. Something which he is too lazy to do. I smell trouble.
John, can’t Coetzee get back to traditional Cape rugby and stop his stampkar stuff?
12 Mar 2010, 19:00 pm
Sorry, last sentence should be addressed to Rassie and not John. John is too much a believer of White’s beefy rugby.
12 Mar 2010, 19:07 pm
@mettie: Jake White won a world cup with his stampkar rugby..!!
Naquelevuki and Liebenberg take 3 or 4 defenders with them enabling guys like Habana to get the ball in space and do their devastating stuff.
Deon Fourie and Aplon will cause far more damage coming off the bench when the game opens up in the last 20 with fresh legs than playing the full 80.
Leave AC,he knows what he’s doing,suck the life outta them out them up front and then fark them up..
Watch and learn
12 Mar 2010, 19:16 pm
@mshiniwami:
I agree. My form side is:(Injuries excluded)
15. Zane Kirchner (Joe Pieterson)
14. Ryan Kankowski Lionel Mapoe)
13. Francois Dippenaar (Ebersohn)
12. Wynand Olivier (Juan de Jongh)
11. Brian Habana (Gerhard vd heever)
10. Morne Steyn (Naas Olivier)
09. Fourie du Preez (Sarel Pretorius)
08. Pierre Spies (Duanne Vermeulen)
07. Juan Smith (Dewald Potgieter)
06. Deon Stegman (Schalk Burger)
05. Victor Matfield (Andries Bekker)
04. Flippie van der Merwe (Danie Rossouw)
03. Werner Kruger (Brok Harris)
02. Gary Botha (Adriaan Strauss)
01. Gurthro Steenkamp (Wickus Blaauw)
12 Mar 2010, 19:18 pm
@catleya: Too many palefaces..!!
12 Mar 2010, 19:20 pm
@catleya:
I guess there is a just slight possibility that you are a Bulls supporter?
12 Mar 2010, 19:21 pm
Div has win the tri-nations and beat the British Lions WITHOUT stampkar rugby. Sereli has cost his union R10 million last year. That is excluding the poor matches before that. Remember, he couldn’t collect a ball with NOBODY near him in a vital game against Boland. White? Let us rather not go there. Enough to say: The only known world cup winner who couldn’t land a coaching job anywhere in the world. Sorry, I forgot. He is some advisor or director at the Lions. 73-12 against the Tahs and 0 out of 5 tells it all.
12 Mar 2010, 19:27 pm
@Storm outta hell:
That’s what happens when you pick a merit side. Not my fault.
12 Mar 2010, 19:27 pm
Warriors 186 for 2 after the 20.
The last over went for 6 6 6 1 1 6 with Boucher hitting the sixes
12 Mar 2010, 19:29 pm
@Robzim: Bulls and Stormers best in SA- they are logically going to be in the majority in a merit side. Again not my fault, and I don’t think anyone can argue with that.
12 Mar 2010, 19:33 pm
@catleya:
13 Bulls and one Stormer who is also an ex bull
What about giving Joe P, Liebenberg, Schalk, Bekker, F Louw a chance?
12 Mar 2010, 19:56 pm
@Robzim:
Joe, Schalk and Bekker are there looking in as second choices, and Tiaan and Flo both have a problem with their handling imho, which, if they address that, will seee them as my third choices in their respective positions. I am simply trying to be as objective as I can be going purely on form.
Thirteen Bulls yes out of thirty, with 12 as first choice and of which at least 6 are first choice shoe-ins in any Bok side currently, and 8 are current Boks. Can’t argue much against that, and do the following exercise. Look at each position objectively and rank the contenders, then compare their teams’ log position. Most SA teams have played the same opponents currently, so log position is a very good guide as to who is gettin g it right consistently. I think you might not be prepared to accept the facts due to your own provincial bias, which is your prerogative.
12 Mar 2010, 20:01 pm
@catleya: I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again,”Bulls rugby is winning rugby..!!”
12 Mar 2010, 20:06 pm
@catleya:
Yeah, well, as I said the other day on the site, we are all biased (including you).
To say that Tiaan will only be THIRD choice after he has made improvements does not sound very objective to me.
Anyway, team selection is not an exact science and we all have our favourites.
There goes another Lion. 40/3 and it is nearly “tickets” for them.
12 Mar 2010, 20:10 pm
@Storm outta hell: At the moment few people can argue with you and I for one won’t because I am a Bulls supporter, but if anybody wants to be honest with themselves, the team above is as close as damnit to a merit team. Yes, you can argue about the odd position and any change will be a subjective choice, which I am quite happy to debate with anyone.
12 Mar 2010, 20:15 pm
@catleya: Kankowski @ 14
?
12 Mar 2010, 20:34 pm
Bulls are overrated, how do I know this? Well I just do.
Easy to notch up high profile wins at home on the high veld with home grown ref’s sown up inside your back pocket.
Bull’s think they the cats whiskers and the bees knees for now. Watch. They going to get a couple home truths shoved down their over blown noses soon as they travel down the perpendicular corridors of self realisation just as soon as they leave tant sannie se koekie kombuis.
12 Mar 2010, 20:40 pm
@Robzim: I don’t deny being biased. I actually think it is our right to have favourites, which is why I posted it as my merit team. As far as Tiaan goes, he is a personal favourite of mine, but I have to be honest and say the following:
1. The Bulls scrum battled last year and this year they are awesome, turning the tables on the Cheetahs who demolished them last year, and at the very least matching the Tahs and the Brumbies as well, and I believe that Gary has made a huge contribution to that, as well as finding his jumpers and doing his bit in the tightloose- so in short a good classic hooker.
2. Adriaan Strauss is the current Bok number two and whilst he is a youngster he is very much in the Gary Botha mould and more pertinently has been a standout for the Cheetahs so he currently gets my nod as the number two.
3. Tiaan I like, but for me he tends to play a little too loose and hasn’t mquite got the hands to do it. He sometimes also battles with his throws, so from a consistency perspective I have to go with the other two until he changes my mind, but then again, I wouldn’t cry if he made a Bok team right now because he is, in my opinion, a much better investment than John Smit or Bissie- John because he is currently caught in no-man’s land not quite a TH and not quite a hooker, while Bissie, on his day the best hooker in the worls, to me has become a disciplinary liability, which no team can afford, especially not if you have three other players of the quality of Botha, Strauss and Liebenberg. Plus I believe that Bissie isn’t quite the team man and have reason to believe that he is part of the problems haunting the Sharks at the moment.
I am slightly conservative in my approach and I lay a lot of emphaisis on team spirit and teamethics. No guy is bigger than the team or the game, so I’m afraid that’s it.
On top of that, Bandise Maku might not quite be in the other three’s class yet, but he has made great strides at the Bulls this year through hard work and I predict that he will soon be pushing very hard for a stake as well. I have never rated Chilliboy- on form or not, purely because I think he battles to find his jumpers too often, even playing with the best lockpair in the world, and is too injury prone to my liking.
But let’s see who your merit team would be.
12 Mar 2010, 20:45 pm
Bulls damn lucky they met Brumbies and Waratahs at home. Had it been in Canberra and Sydney would have been 2 losses notched firmly in the record books, guaranteed, both those 2 Aussie outfits were within 10 minutes of giving them something to cry about in their own back yard at altitude nogal.
12 Mar 2010, 20:51 pm
@Storm outta hell: Well, at the moment there is no SA 14 that gets me even halfway as exited as he does in a bit of space. He could quite easily become our Rokococo, and what’s more, could become a foil to play from when taking the ball wide under the new rules.
For one thing, he has the speed and the skills to play there, and in all honesty, I DON’T SEE HIM EVER LIFTING SPIES OUT OF THE SADDLE AT 8 under the new law interpretations, but that doesn’t mean I don’t rate him as a player, and I believe he has great value to add out wide, but that’s just me.
At least he might score a couple of penalty tries if he can’t get accross the chalk himself.
12 Mar 2010, 21:01 pm
Merit team
Heinke, Gurthro, Blaauw, Oosthuizen
Liebenberg, Bismark, Fourie
Kruger, BJ, Buys
Flip, Lombard, Sykes
Bekker, Matfield
Burger, Stegmann, Floors
Louw, Smith, Deysel
Vermeulen, Spies, Cheetah’s 8
Pretorius, Duvenhage
Steyn, Grant
Habana, Mapoe
Le Grange, Olivier
De Jongh, Jacobs
Fourie, Van Den Heever, JPP, Kankowski
J. Pietersen, Viljoen, Kirchner
12 Mar 2010, 21:06 pm
@catleya:
#324
My form side is (excluding Northern hemisphere players):
15. Joe Pieterson
14. Lionel Mapoe
13. Juan de Jongh (he is a 13)
12. Wynand Olivier
11. Brian Habana
10. Morne Steyn
09. Fourie du Preez
08. Pierre Spies
07. Juan Smith
06 Schalk Burger
05. Andries Bekker (currently better than Matfield imo)
04. Flippie van der Merwe
03. Werner Kruger
02. Tiaan Liebenbergh
01. Gurthro Steenkamp
“Bubbling under” would be Francois Louw, Matfield, Vermeulen etc.
The team is not that much different to yours (including your second choices) – I only gave the marginal calls to the Stormer players
On Liebenberg our views are quite different though.
12 Mar 2010, 21:07 pm
@skopskiet: @skopskiet: Skoppie, who pissed in your breakfast cereal my man?
Seriously, I don’t think you okes who are perenial Bullsknockers can see far enough beyond your bias to appreciate what Frans Ludeke is achieving with his team. And thanks to your bros in the coaching hierarchy down there, old Slaptjips is busy weaving his magic with our backs, who in all honesty have never look as polished.
If you are referring Mark Lawrence purportedly impeding the defence during FdP’s try, go look again. The defender had no snowballs hope in hell of stopping FdP. It is only the side-on depth perception and the Ausie commentators that gave you that idea. I know. Why? I was there, and it happened right in front of me.
Why not rather keep on taking out Rangerman , sharks_forever and the others from RT coming to scavenge here. I have no axe to grind with you.
12 Mar 2010, 21:23 pm
@Robzim: I have no problem with you giving the Stormers the benefit of the doubt on the marginals. And I really don’t have a problem with Tiaan, I have just tried to be brutally honest. Other than that, none of the guys in our join t squads would let a Bok team down.
@skopskiet: Le Grange is not bad but you can’t mention him in the same breath as Wynand Olivier. And no Potties? But that’s allright, he’ll make you a believer again tomorrow.
And Flo or Plo ahead of Juan Smith? Come on, be serious!
12 Mar 2010, 21:33 pm
Robzim,
After tomorrow night the Bok team will be:
15. Kirchner
14. Hougard
13. Dippenaar
12. Olivier
11. van den Heever
10. Steyn
09. du Preez
08. Spies
07. Potgieter
06. Stegmann
05. Matfield
04. Rossouw
03. Kruger
02. Botha
01. Steenkamp
And no, I’m not predicting a walkover, because I believe that the Landers are going to throw the kitchen sink at us. It’ll rather be for the way in which the Bulls overcome that!
12 Mar 2010, 21:36 pm
@catleya:
Your choice of Kankowski on the wing certainly has some merit.
I am also a fan of Potgieter but have not selected him as he has hardly played this year.
I would always like to have at least one “thinking type” of loose forward in my team – that is why I like players like Potgieter, Luke Watson and Nic Koster (remember him).
12 Mar 2010, 21:39 pm
@catleya:
331
15/15 Lol, that is pushing it a bit.
I would say Bulls by 52 and Stormers by 7 for tomorrow.
The Highlanders suck – even the kitchen sink wont help.
The Canes are a bit of a different story – very dangerous team that can run circles around any team on a good day.
12 Mar 2010, 21:56 pm
Bulls will take care of spirited yet poor Highlanders up at Loftus on highveld piss easy nothing to it. Bulls have a dream draw from heaven.
However their only true test of character and quality will be when they travel, not before then.
When Ludeke inherited this Bull’s outfit from Meyer all the Bulls faithful were crying in their wheatbix thinking they just got done a dirty by Judas himself. Meanwhile Ludeke and Roussow have produced and performed far superior to anything Meyer and Louden did in 07, and that was when the All Blacks were withdrawn out the first half of S14. Bulls would never have won that year if that had not been the case.
This current Bulls side under Ludeke streaks ahead of Meyer’s dynasty of 07.
Still they’re vulnerable when exposed on defence. Lets see how they travel, then start singing their praises to the roof tops.
12 Mar 2010, 22:06 pm
@skopskiet:
A long, roundabout way of saying nothing.
12 Mar 2010, 22:09 pm
@Robzim: @Robzim: 15/15 was a bit tongue in cheek yes and I wanted to stick a smiley in there but couldn’t figure out how to, so I let it slide, hoping the guys would cotton on.
I agree about Potties, which is why I find it so hard to believe that the other bloggers that ought to be able to see what I see in him can’t, or don’t or simply won’t. Watch him tomorrow again- how he protects Morne Steyn by playing flat in front of him, watch his commitment in the tackle, how he gets over the advantage line almost every carry and seldom loses the ball in contact, how he acts as a foil for the other Bulls runners, how he balances his cleaning and fetching with the rest of his game, and above all, reads the game.
I agree about Nic Koster as well- saw him in EL at the Grant Khomo u/16 week years ago- yes, I love my rugby that much, he was a revelation, like Potties was in Bloem at the Craven week. Same kind of player. SA is tru sly blessed with loosie talent, which is why Koster moved to wing I guess. I see the same potential in Kanko as well on the wing.
12 Mar 2010, 22:37 pm
Why is my post 336 being moderated? For Bullishness?
@skopskiet: Everybody saw him as a failure at the Lions, meanwhile he was just another victim of whatever the cancer is that is dragging the Lions down. He was on a hiding to nothing there, and I was one of those who expressed my concern, but he has made a disciple out of me. Ask me what is special about the Bulls this year and I say start with him, and Slaptjips and then you go further.
He has instilled a steely selfbelief in this team which has been re-inforced by winning, which is why they can dig themselves out of holes. The guys on the field know how to win, and they are making it a habit now, by simply outscoring their opponents.
I know they are letting in too many tries and they are working on it, but they have at least succeeded in letting go of their hitherto obsessive defensivemindedness, a legacy of their historic 10 man style, which cost them many games.
They have done a 180 degree turn and are now in the process of becoming a lethal attacking unit, to which they are adding the defence. It is a work in progress, granted, but I think the evidence is there for all to see what they can be once their act is all together. And it is mainly thanks to Ludeke’s vision.
And I guess that frightens the ***** out of the competition.
12 Mar 2010, 22:44 pm
That’s it! Ig and his mates are being ridiculous, which is why I’m off to bed. I don’t have time for their games. They have broken our comms.
12 Mar 2010, 22:49 pm
Maybe I should migrate to RT as well!
12 Mar 2010, 23:11 pm
bye bye, the back slap community await your postings of succor with open grateful arms. They seek numb skull converts as if they are veritable manna from out of heaven itself, or at least like pockets filled with deceitful underhand silver.
Cherio, and don’t forget to leave your coat at the door on your way out hope you won’t be needing it on your wistful journey over yonder?
12 Mar 2010, 23:38 pm
@mshiniwami:
When I say “form” I do not mean “the last game.” I am referring to a body of work over the lsst few months–sustainable class and form. I watch the NH matches. Frans Steyn is in tremendous “boot” form. He would still be our top choice for 15. Fourie–the IRB try-scorer of the year–was outstanding for the Baa-Baas, and his tackling has helped make the Stormers well-nigh impregnable. Burger is back. He understands Test rugby. Plus, new rules and rulings favor a beast like him. Love Stegmann, but he needs to be blooded slowly. Deysel hasn’t been given a good chance; Sharks are ignorant. Joe van Niekerk has been outstanding in Top 14. You’re going to dismiss French rugby? It’s the best in the North right now and Big Joe has been well-rounded. Sowerby is too light for Test rugby. Claasens, Mujati–not up to snuff. CJ hasn’t been top form. Maybe I got that wrong. OK. I got it wrong. Brits has been the best forward in England in 09/10. I like the cut of his jib. Just give me a better TH, and this team will dominate. Don’t like our THs right now.
13 Mar 2010, 09:03 am
@haribaldi:
How’s this for a prospect. Incumbent Locals vs Possible Local vs Probable Overseas trial games! Let’s see-
Incumbent Local 22
15. Kirchner
14. JPP/Jongi Nokwe
13. Mossie
12. Wynand Olivier
11. Habana
10. Morne Steyn/Ruan Pienaar
9. FDP
8. Spies/Kanko
7. Juan Smith
6. Schalla
5. Matfield/Andries Bekker
4. Bakkies Botha/Danie Rossouw
3. John Smit(c)
2. Bissie/Strauss
1. Beast/Wian du Preez
Possible Locals 22
15. Riaan Viljoen
14. Mapoe
13. Juan de Jongh
12. JL Potgieter/Meyer Bosman
11. G vd Heever/Lwazi Mvovo
10. Naas Olivier
9. Francois Hougard/HeiniAdams
8. Duanne Vermeulen
7. Dewald Potgieter (c)
6. Stegmann/Francois Louw
5. Franco van der Merwe
4. Flippie vd Merwe/Steven Sykes
3. Werner Kruger
2. Gary Botha/Bandise Maku
1. Heinke vd Merwe/Coenie Oosthuizen
Probable Overseas 22
15. Frans Steyn
14. Marius Joubert
13. Ronnie Cook
12. Jean de Villiers/Brad Barritt
11. J. Burger
10. Butch James/Derek Hougaard
9. Michael Claasens/Niel de Kock
8. Joe v Niekerk/ Robbie Diack
7. Ernst Joubert/
6. Wikus v Heerden/
5. Ross Skeate/Marco Wentzel
4. Juandre Kruger
3. BJ Botha
2. Schalk Brits/Richard Strauss
1. CJ vd Linde/Daan Human
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