One eighty for brilliant Bulls
15 Mar 2010
The Bulls’ defeat to the Hurricanes two years ago was the nadir of a disastrous title defence. Now this is a side unrecognisable from that diabolical unit.
The Bulls, fielding 11 Springboks in their run-on 15, took 50 from the Hurricanes in that match. It completed a series of six defeats on the bounce. In that run of losses, the Reds and Chiefs put 40 points past them, while they also lost to the Force. In fact, they had won just two of their 10 games up to and including the Canes match, with one of those victories coming against the tournament’s perennial whipping boys, the Lions.
The defending champions, so prolific a year earlier, were in crisis. They blamed the ELVs, which had been introduced in an attempt to encourage a more fluent, entertaining spectacle. They intimated that referees were against them and gradually became cold and bitter towards the sectors of the media who criticised them.
Privately their senior players pined for their mentor and former coach Heyneke Meyer. Comparisons between Meyer and his successor, Frans Ludeke, were unfavourable to the latter. Tactically and from a man-management perspective, Ludeke paled in comparison to his predecessor.
Then there was the absence of their talismanic captain Victor Matfield, who had been lured to Toulon. The appeal of a new challenge and being paid a vault to scrap in the French D2, was enough for Matfield to bid the Bulls adieu. He wouldn’t have predicted the dramatic capitulation that followed his departure.
Fourie du Preez was a reluctant captain. The role wasn’t a fit with him at all, despite the fact that he is widely acknowledged as one of the brightest rugby minds on the planet and a capable leader of men. Still, where some shine with the responsibility of leadership, others, like Du Preez feel shackled.
There was little to no willingness amongst the players and coaching staff to take responsibility for the dire situation they found themselves in. That was until a post-Hurricanes team talk, where senior players spoke openly about the issues that vexed them, the opinions of the younger players were taken into account and the coaching staff admitted their errors and limitations.
There was a collective commitment to improve, and they have done so in emphatic fashion.
Since that game the Bulls have won 17 of 20 matches (they haven’t been beaten at Loftus in 14 matches), and captured another Super Rugby title to go with their 2007 triumph. The turnaround is phenomenal and the Canes will be acutely aware that where they faced a fatally wounded beast on April 12 2008, they now front up to one of formidable prowess.
A shift in attitude and mindset and improved tactics are among the reasons for their resurgence, and to overlook the return of Matfield, a galvanising force and astute leader, would be foolish.
The emergence of and subsequent acclimatisation of gifted youngsters like Dewald Potgieter, Deon Stegmann and Francois Hougaard, and more recently Gerhard van den Heever and Flip van der Merwe has injected quality and freshness into the squad, and inadvertently served to be a catalyst for the senior players in those positions to raise the standard of their performance, thereby raising the collective standard. Meyer’s recruitment in the capacity of director of rugby was also a masterstroke, and should ensure sustained success.
But most of all it’s been the utter refusal to believe that they’ve touched the ceiling of their potential, or indeed that their potential has a ceiling, that has, to date, shielded the Bulls from complacency and made them the one of the finest teams on the planet.
The Bulls will face one of the toughest tests of the campaign in the Canes. But a victory will be particularly sweet as the match represents the point in which they went from chumps to champs.
By Ryan Vrede
170 Comments
15 Mar 2010, 07:24 am
Niiiiiiiice…. drum roll please…
Brrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrummmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm tish.
Pumping for the next Bok Captain.
15 Mar 2010, 07:30 am
Hmmmmm.
i was there and must say…
Bulls.. imo… will not be in the final if they keep on playing like they did last weekend…..
hope i am wrong….
15 Mar 2010, 07:45 am
Where is TAC? He was pissing and moaning for this on the Fourie’ thread and now it is here… he has gone missing.
Ain’t no pleasing a rampaging bull.
15 Mar 2010, 08:04 am
ryan, can you save us the “the best team/rugby mind on the planet” hyperbole. There is no way fourie du preez is the best rugby mind on the planet, the same du preez that couldn’t adapt to the elvs…what kind of limited mind is that?
15 Mar 2010, 08:12 am
@Transformation: i rest my case…..
15 Mar 2010, 08:36 am
There can be no doubt about du preez’s rugby vision, just open our eyes
15 Mar 2010, 08:37 am
your eyes, oeps
15 Mar 2010, 08:37 am
@Staal: tl tl tl
15 Mar 2010, 08:41 am
@RugbyRulz:
Here I am, bud. This now makes it 2 Bulls threads (including the game thread) vs. 6 Stormers threads. And you believe I should be happy with that?
It should in fact be the other way around, with the Bulls having more threads than anyone else, given that they are the defending champs, that they are unbeaten, and that they are top of the log with a game in hand.
If I don’t keep these Stormers groupies honest, then who will?
15 Mar 2010, 08:42 am
@Transformation:
Yup. One of the least astute bloggers on this site, as I pointed out last week.
15 Mar 2010, 08:47 am
@Tacitus: Fair enough, my bully boy buddy.
Thing is Tac… there ain’t much wrong with the Bulls. Defense could do with a polish but other than that, they are playing very well. Deserve their log standing and imho are red hot favourites to win the S14.
Wouldn’t dream of dissing them, they don’t deserve it.
15 Mar 2010, 08:50 am
@Transformation: #4 I am now convinced you were born with 1 brain cell…… that got so lonely it grew a tumour!
Now ask yourself this “Why do people not take me seriously?”
15 Mar 2010, 08:50 am
@Transformation:
wind up merchant.
unfortunately the, the bulls actually won the s14 last under the ELV’s. And DuPreez played just about every game. Then he went on to lead the springbok charge against the Lions and tri nations teams.
And then,even more amazingly, he didn’t have to nominate himself for world player of the year.
tactically and technically, there is no match for him as a scrumhalf so far.
15 Mar 2010, 08:51 am
Stormers have done Bulls a favour by first crushing the Highlanders and then the ‘Canes on route to Loftus
15 Mar 2010, 08:51 am
Well done in avoiding that “clinical” cliche!
15 Mar 2010, 08:52 am
Anyway back to rugby…
2 weeks ago it was Goast vd Heever that leaked tries….. this week it was Hougaardt thats defence was found wanting! We seriously have to rectify this aspect of the game!!
15 Mar 2010, 08:53 am
…but then, he is an Afrikaaner from Pretoria, so the Transformation brigade will always find fault or reason in anything and everything.Even if it does not exist.
15 Mar 2010, 08:53 am
tac, your incontinence pads leaking like the bulls defence this morning?
you’re certainly grumpy like an old woman with a wet panty.
have you ever thought that the reason there are more stormers articles is because they generate the most comments. money talks.
now go and stare at your pierre spies poster for an hour and come back in a better mood please.
15 Mar 2010, 08:53 am
@Tacitus: its quality not quantity you should be looking at Tackie.
15 Mar 2010, 08:53 am
thats = whose
15 Mar 2010, 08:54 am
@Storm outta hell:
bulls did the same favour with regards to the Brumbies.A 50 point wallopping.
what happened there then?
15 Mar 2010, 08:56 am
Interesting stat for you Bulletjies.
Only the Cheetahs, Force, Highlanders and Lions have a worse defensive record in the Super 14 2010 than the Bulls.
AND the Highlanders, Lions and Chiefs have all played 5 games! whilst the Bulls and Force have played 4.
Me thinks its going to bite the Bulletjies at some stage. Their defence is pathetic.
15 Mar 2010, 08:56 am
Ruff when they start chucking peanuts.
15 Mar 2010, 08:56 am
@the peanut gallery:
15 Mar 2010, 08:56 am
@Storm outta hell: ya. the mighty h’landers managed to put 35 past the bully beefs with the altitude disadvantage.
me-thinks some tackling practice is needed in snortoria.
15 Mar 2010, 08:56 am
@Transformation:
You also called Jaque Fourie useless for the Stormers, so that pretty much makes you and your opinion worthless.
15 Mar 2010, 08:56 am
@Oubaas2009: Correction, not the Cheetahs, its the Chiefs.
15 Mar 2010, 08:57 am
@RugbyRulz: he should chew his food better like mummy taught him. ;(
15 Mar 2010, 08:58 am
@Brigadier Van Zyl: Started with January…’nuff said..!!
15 Mar 2010, 09:02 am
@Kobus Kitty: ja I’d agree that Transie gets a little carried away at times. Its all pretty simple(and transparent) really; designed chiefly to stir.
15 Mar 2010, 09:05 am
wannenburg was uberpish
15 Mar 2010, 09:10 am
Bulls leak 34.75 points/ match so far this season.
Only the Force (39.50/match) and Lions (45.60/match) have a worse record.
The average amongst all teams is 27.67/match.
Stormers lead with only conceding 10.2/match. Next best are the Crusaders with 20.6/match.
15 Mar 2010, 09:15 am
@Oubaas2009: I do agree that is a area of concern….. but no matter how bad your defence is …..it is much more important to score more than the opponent
15 Mar 2010, 09:16 am
@Tacitus: Cry me a river.
15 Mar 2010, 09:25 am
@Transformation</a
Your negativity towards du Preez is so pathetic it's almost funny…
Anyway, how good was G. van den Heever's 90 odd meters try !!!
15 Mar 2010, 09:25 am
Not only does the Bulls get minder threads as die ander spanne nie, they are being written by n groot stormers supporter. How much does he mean wat hy skryf.
15 Mar 2010, 09:28 am
@Tacitus:
Tacitus, you’ve been quite vocal about how the other Saffa sides roll over to Aussie and Kiwi sides conceding bonus points.
Yet your boys conceded a bonus point to the lowly Highlanders on Saturday.
You’ve conceded, on average, 34 points a match…care to comment?
15 Mar 2010, 09:28 am
@the chosen one:
Boet, I promise you that Ryan Vrede’s bloed is blou. He’s a bigtime Bulls supporter.
15 Mar 2010, 09:31 am
@Oubaas2009: And its 24 to 15 Bulls over Stormers in the try stakes with a one game less played by the Bulls. So it is more like about 30 versus 15. What’s happened to the Stormers attack? They used to outscore the Bulls! Some cause for real concern there too, or is this my bias again?
Our defensive problems originate in overexuberant attacking- easy to fix by reigning it in a little, but you okes have lost your attacking edge. Now that is not so easy to rectify.
For a team that lost against the Brumbies and got lucky vs the Tahs you guys certainly have a lot to say.
15 Mar 2010, 09:32 am
The Bulls need to work on their defence. When coming up against a side that they can’t just blow away (Stormers and Saders) they certainly cannot leak the soft tries they have done to this point.
Still, it is theirs to loose.
15 Mar 2010, 09:35 am
One question. Is it easier to implement a good defensive strategy in a week or two or to turn your team from a defensive team to a attacking team in a week or two?
15 Mar 2010, 09:35 am
@Tacitus: as if you are the most incisive blogger here, hahaha. If you were as sharp as you purport to be you would’ve picked up that the whole “astute” thing was satirical…but why do i bother, the bulle are the best hehehe
15 Mar 2010, 09:35 am
sure going to be interesting when the Bulls meet a team that can defend AND score tries
15 Mar 2010, 09:36 am
@WP Till I Die:
37: I can only refer you to the log, my friend. Why care if the opposition gets a measly bonus point when we get 5 points from it?
I expect our tacking to improve significantly on tour, when we will switch the attacking mindset for a more conservative, defensive one.
My hope is that we will be on 30 log points out of a possible maximum of 30 after the Force game in Perth. We will then have 3 tour matches left, which will require a different kind of approach.
15 Mar 2010, 09:38 am
The Bulls have conceded two bonus points to the opposition (one to an Australian side, one to a Kiwi side).
The Stormers have conceded no bonus points…
Please, Tacitus, I would like your comment on this, since you have been quite vocal about other SA teams ******** the Bulls by conceding bonus points to the Antipodeans…
15 Mar 2010, 09:38 am
@Blouste: ffs you blue bulls fans are tender this morning! Just because Tac moans it doesn’t mean you all have to b*tch after him like a choir…your team won, handsomely! Be happy, let’s banter..
yoh…
15 Mar 2010, 09:39 am
@WP Till I Die:
45: I already have.
15 Mar 2010, 09:39 am
@fuzzy:
Like who ?
15 Mar 2010, 09:40 am
I know what song I’m gonna be singing along to loudly this weekend:
Jaay,
in jou Cheetah Truii,
laat my so lekker kry,
as jy verby die doellyn gly…
15 Mar 2010, 09:42 am
@WP Till I Die:
come now, use the brain please.
….the perrenial cellar dwellars conceding 5 pointers at home is always an issue.
nothing to compare with a table topping side conceding a bonus point to a side playing catch up rugby for 65 minutes.
bloody hell dude.
bulls where leading 5 tries to 1 after 30 mintes.
I fell a sleep after that, i imagine the bulls players do as well and then throw in all the subs and you’ve got a game of touch rugby going on.
15 Mar 2010, 09:42 am
@WP Till I Die: You conceded four points to a probable semi final contending team (Brumbies). We conceded our bonus points to the Highlanders (Who cares about them) and the Tahs. I do not think they are a semi final contender (that is up for discussion) but they were infront for a large part of the game so it is not as if we gifted it to them.
15 Mar 2010, 09:44 am
@Tacitus:
Either way, the last match (Stormers v Bulls at Newlands) is likely to be a cracker.
15 Mar 2010, 09:44 am
us bulls fans don’t like “banter”
we take our rugby dead seriously.
that’s why we’re champions and everyone else is kak.
15 Mar 2010, 09:45 am
Ok… cheers all..
i’m giving this blog a miss for a while…
Go BIG you only live once… and may the BEST
team win the S14 ……
15 Mar 2010, 09:45 am
@WP Till I Die:
bulls will rest their players and still get a draw. that’s my prediciton.
15 Mar 2010, 09:45 am
@WP Till I Die:
The Stormers have given the Brumbies FOUR points in just one game : shock:
15 Mar 2010, 09:45 am
@Staal:
Gaan jy weer jou geyser verf?
15 Mar 2010, 09:46 am
come on ryan….”the bulls’ defensive frailities are a worry for ludeke” explore the possibilities, stephan dippenaar, francois hougaard, “white wing” van den heever all have been putrid in defence. If this was joe petersien, dejong & aplon or mapoe, nokwe & uys, jon cardinelli & gareth duncan would’ve written 10 articles on it already!
15 Mar 2010, 09:47 am
@Blouste:
We all know that we were robbed of a try in that match
Except we Stormer fans did not b!tch and moan about referees, unlike our Sharkie cousins…
15 Mar 2010, 09:48 am
The pace when vd Heever swerved inside then outside again was astounding to behold.
There really wasn’t anything on on the outside, the cover defender was racing across to close the gap. All logic said he should have gone inside once again – which would have been brought him back into traffic again.
Instead, the youngster pinned his ears back swerved to his right and took on the cover defense on the outside with nothing except pure pace.
And he went around them like they were standing still. Beautiful stuff.
15 Mar 2010, 09:48 am
@Transformation:
I’m confused – is he called “Shadow”, “Ghost”, “Hurdles” or “Rebel”?
15 Mar 2010, 09:49 am
@Blouste: Hi Blouste…I see you took a slide down the leaderboard by not backing the Stormpies…shame on you…I’ve got them by 11 against the Cheetahs
15 Mar 2010, 09:49 am
@Tacitus:
It was a beautiful try.
Nobody disputes the kid’s got speed.
But can he tackle???
15 Mar 2010, 09:52 am
@WP Till I Die:
Actually, you’d be suprised at the number of ignoramuses on this site who dispute exactly that – his pace.
15 Mar 2010, 09:52 am
According to ruggastats, Hougaard missed 6 tackles. That’s poor.
15 Mar 2010, 09:53 am
I think it’s the first time in almost three years that South Africa has two teams at the top of the Super 14 log.
Congratulations, Bulls and Stormers.
15 Mar 2010, 09:54 am
@Tacitus: Awesome try and awesome pace…I don’t think Habs would have pulled it off in the same situation
15 Mar 2010, 09:54 am
@Tacitus:
Ignorami?
15 Mar 2010, 09:55 am
I think the Stormers believe/hope that the Bulls will not be able to tackle in a matter of 9 weeks is a good thing. Let them hang on to what they have. Just remember that Bakkies, Akona and Pretorius are waiting in the wings. I dont know if Pretorius and Akona are better, but they know the Bulls’ patterns.
15 Mar 2010, 09:56 am
@catleya: 39. Lets get one thing straight here. I have and never will claim to be a Stormers supporter.
All I am saying is that the Bulls let in 35 points a match this season compared to the Stormers 10/match. Make of that as you will.
If I were a Bull, it would make me think that the like of Hougaard who missed 6 tackles against the Highlanders has something to work on.
15 Mar 2010, 09:59 am
@Storm outta hell:
Yip ,a BIG slide. Really thought that match would have been closer…
I think the Stormers have now officially impressed me…
As far as superbru is concerned , I am now where the Lions are… in a rebuilding phase…
15 Mar 2010, 09:59 am
@Horings:
far superior defensively and more astute players.
also, with bakkies coming back, flip starts off the wood,wannenburg moves to the stands and makes the forwards replacement dynamic really nasty looking.
16,prop,
17.kuun
18.roussow
19.flip
20.hougaard
21.jean louis potgieter
22.waco jaco
15 Mar 2010, 10:00 am
The worry for everyone in the competition, but more importantly for the Bulls, is that they (the Bulls) have not played well for 80 minutes yet.
When they do play well for 80, the Bulls will almost be unstopable.
The Bulls have to ask themselves though, why can they only play well for 40-50 minutes per game? Is it a mental thing? Can they no switch on at the begining of a game? Or why do they struggle to focus when they are ahead?
15 Mar 2010, 10:01 am
@Blouste: Yep…I took a tumble too ’cause I thought the Sharkies might take it.. rebuilding,but this weekend holds it’s own challenges
15 Mar 2010, 10:01 am
@WP Till I Die:
“Ignorami”? Possible. Forgive my ignorance, if that is indeed the correct term.
15 Mar 2010, 10:03 am
@Tacitus: Yup Tac, pluraly so.
15 Mar 2010, 10:04 am
@WOLFMAN21:
Let them retain areas to improve on. This will help them to peak at the right time.
Some critics jump on the “Bulls are peaking too soon” band wagon. Well, this ain’t peaking, gentlemen. This is building up to your full potential.
Watch us come the end of the tournament.
Meanwhile, we’ll take the 20 points out of 20 we’ve gotten while still moving up on the improvement curve.
15 Mar 2010, 10:05 am
@WOLFMAN21: One could say the same thing about the Stormers…or the Boks for that matter
15 Mar 2010, 10:06 am
I also have a nice laugh when the Aussie scribes lament the “perfect” draw the Bulls have this year. Well, we’ve earned this draw, what with last year winning the competition on the difficult draw and all.
15 Mar 2010, 10:06 am
@Storm outta hell:
I think the Stormers have peaked. In fact, one might say they’re already playing above their potential…
15 Mar 2010, 10:09 am
@Storm outta hell: It was certainly true of the Boks in the Lions series last year, and the Stormers do certainly go through phases were they appear to lack cohesion, but the Bulls go through phases were they bleed points. That is the worry. They concede 10-20 points and then decide to start playing.
@Tacitus: I would agree with that. The have won four games, while playing good rugby combined with really bad rugby. They can, and will improve, especially when they have their full squad.
I am just worried that a defensive malaise might have set in which they cannot break out of.
15 Mar 2010, 10:10 am
@Brigadier Van Zyl: I do agree. Akona really impressed me last year and was better than Habana.
The chances these youngsters got will really help us come CC time. My backline for the first part of the CC:
9. Hougaard (He needs game time there)
10. Brummer (He did impress me a bit last year)
11. vd Heever
12. J-L Potgieter
13. Pretorius
14. Akona
15. Kirchner
I will give Dippenaar a couple of chances at 13, while playing Pretorius at 12 and J-L at 10. I am not sure if Kirchner will play for the Boks, but we do have Jaco to assist there.
15 Mar 2010, 10:10 am
@Tacitus: Hardly dude…the best is yet to come
15 Mar 2010, 10:13 am
Tac the only Banana skin teams for the bulls are the Red teams. Crusaders, Red and Chiefs. I don’t see any of them being a problem. Bulls are a notch above all and should win the S14 in a canter.
15 Mar 2010, 10:13 am
@WOLFMAN21:
Ja, I won’t pretend that I’m happy with their defense. I think the main thing is this attacking mindset we have at the moment. A lot of tries are scored against us because we try to push the attacking envelope a bit too far.
But if you look at the log, you can’t really argue that it hasn’t served its purpose perfectly.
To quote Ludeke, the Bulls are trying to get maximum points from the new law intepretations while they still can, before everyone has cottoned on to it.
Once the playing field levels, I think we’ll see a reversion to a more conservative approach. But with the option of shifting into attacking mode if the circumstances require it. We’ve proved we can do it now.
That’s my hope, at least.
15 Mar 2010, 10:15 am
well done to the Bulls…
looking really awesome and THE team to beat… playing great great rugby…
need to tighten up on defence before they go overseas though…
15 Mar 2010, 10:16 am
@Tacitus: I disagree I think they are playing solid rugby just dont think they have a team capable of beating the Bulle. Bulls best or second best in their position in the comp. Matfield, Bakkies, Spies, FDP, Morne, Wynand.
Goats Skulk, Mossie and Habanero.
See the difference in quality. Also the Bulls with Gary back can scrum so there only weakness is gone.
Look forward to play the brokeback goats its gonna be a good game.
15 Mar 2010, 10:19 am
@Tacitus: By levelling the playing fields are you refferring to the altitude advantage the Bulls enjoy at Loftus..?
15 Mar 2010, 10:19 am
@Tacitus: Yep, this is true, and players like Ndungane and Pretorius will improve the defence when they return. We are doing fantastically well, so perhaps it is nitpicking.
The worry is that when it comes to the latter parts of the tournament, and they have must win games. They can’t afford to give the other team a 15 point headstart, or leak tries as they have done.
I will be happy with a 20-15 win this weekend to be honest, as long as it is controlled.
Then, it must be said, we are top of the league with 4 bonus points and playing some sexy rugby, so I am not complaining too much!
15 Mar 2010, 10:21 am
@RugbyRulz: The Reds might spring a surprise. They play really attacking and creative rugby, and could cut the Bulls to pieces on attack. The only question would be can they get enough ball and stop the Bulls from scoring when they have the ball.
15 Mar 2010, 10:22 am
Reds and Blues will be tough. I think we can take the Chiefs and Force.
15 Mar 2010, 10:29 am
@Tacitus: #60 did you see israel dagg smoke stephan dippenaar for his first try? Even Blades said he got smoked. Dagg used to play 7′s for the all blacks so he can move.
15 Mar 2010, 10:30 am
@WOLFMAN21: Trick for the Reds is, having enough CLUB rugby guys to fill the breach. Don’t know how they do it… just keep plugging the holes, every time someone gets injured.
Reds will be a bogey for many teams.
15 Mar 2010, 10:31 am
@Transformation: I reckon Dagg should be the AB 15. I know Mils is the 15, but Dagg looked good last season, this season he is getting better by the yard.
15 Mar 2010, 10:34 am
@RugbyRulz: Just the way the system in Aus works. A team like the Force have struggled to plug all their injuries this year. Ioane at 13 looked good on the weekend for the Reds. You just need to limit their possession, because they will score tries.
15 Mar 2010, 10:34 am
@Transformation: Did not smoke him just could not catch him from behind. Van der Heever now that was smoked
15 Mar 2010, 10:34 am
@RugbyRulz: I’d have Corey Jane as the All Black 15.
15 Mar 2010, 10:37 am
@WOLFMAN21: Yep…but he may be out for a while,and may not be as good when he comes back.. it’s happened before…
15 Mar 2010, 10:38 am
@WP Till I Die: the official nic is “Hurdles”
15 Mar 2010, 10:43 am
@Airwell:watch the try again, at one point they were neck & neck then izzy put on the jets & i was curtains for dippenaar
@RugbyRulz: i partly agree with you, but Mils was sublime on the eoyt! Then there’s also Corey Jane & then Izzy Dagg comes in to the reckoning…imo
15 Mar 2010, 10:45 am
tacticus mentioned last week that there is no way in hell the the canes would lose all 3 matches in SA
does he still feel the same way?
15 Mar 2010, 10:49 am
@st.a.t.w: He’s so biased that he probably prayed for the Stormers to lose…shame…he can’t stand it when they win…
15 Mar 2010, 10:49 am
@Transformation: I like Izzy, he looks a natural and can kick points too. Think little things like multi-talented will be the way of the future.
Plenty of 15′s can kick clearance but how many kick points. Izzy does, so does the Percy clone (sorry can’t remember his name). Don’t think the Percy clone is a patch on Percy or Izzy though.
15 Mar 2010, 10:49 am
Transformation. Why do you delight in dagg supposedly ‘smoking’ a South African player. Are you a kiwi?
15 Mar 2010, 10:52 am
I expected the Canes to come out firing against the Stormers. They didn’t. My expectation for the Bulls/Canes game has not changed.
15 Mar 2010, 10:56 am
Tac 104. We are Rugby lovers and give praise where it is due. I am an Ozzie, but surely it is ok to give the opposition credit when they have a great game. Honestly don’t know how he didn’t get MOM.
15 Mar 2010, 11:01 am
Israel Dagg is the next Christian Cullen by all impressions. And sorry to disagree ms Rulz but Percy clone Smokin Joe Pietersen is way way better prospect than uncle Percy would ever have been, much more talented and complete footballer all the way round. Take Percy at same stage of their respective careers and there’s simply no comparison.
Young Joe is a complete comprehensive full back in every sense of the word, just needs to brush up on place kicking, but every other dimension he leaves uncle Percival in the shade both on attack and on defence.
15 Mar 2010, 11:02 am
@RugbyRulz: Joe Pieterson..he’s a lot better than Percy was at the same stage of his career imo…
15 Mar 2010, 11:06 am
Pieterson, that is his name. Fair enough guys, you all know him and Percy far better than me.
15 Mar 2010, 11:06 am
@skopskiet: Yeah..Dagg is one player who has made the transition from 7′s to 15′s in a very comfortable manner…he struggled against the Stormer’s defence tho’…and dropped his head after Habana’s try
15 Mar 2010, 11:08 am
@Storm outta hell: seems we have some concencus going here, don’t happen all that often but occasionally it does.
15 Mar 2010, 11:08 am
BOK BAROMETER: (Does not include any of the 19 contracted Springboks in an effort to look for more depth in SA rugby)
15 Joe Pietersen (Stormers) – His goal-kicking was very good and when it came to putting his side on the front foot he was superb.
14 Francois Hougaard (Bulls) – Another two tries for arguably the best finisher in the competition. Versatility is one of his strengths, though his defence wasn’t at its usual high standard. (Contracted Bok – JP Pietersen)
13 Juan de Jongh (Stormers) – His decision making is improving every week. His defence remains tough. (Contracted Bok – Jaque Fourie)
12 Meyer Bosman (Cheetahs) – He’s the best passer, a solid defender and the fulcrum around which the Cheetahs back-line revolves. (Contracted Boks – Adi Jacobs, Wynand Olivier)
11 Jongi Nokwe (Cheetahs) – He’s grown so much as a player through upping his work rate and looking for attacking opportunities. (Contracted Bok – Bryan Habana)
10 Peter Grant (Stormers) – Produced his best display of the season against the Hurricanes. He’s ruthless on defence and appears to be settling down as a fly-half. (Contracted Boks – Morne Steyn, Ruan Pienaar)
9 Dewaldt Duvenage (Stormers) – Rapid, snappy service and a controlled kicking ability gave his side good forward momentum. For a small man, he puts himself about on defence. (Contracted Bok – Fourie du Preez)
8 Duane Vermeulen (Stormers) – Was omnipresent in the loose, controlled the ball off the back of the scrum well, and took a few line-outs. (Contracted Bok – Pierre Spies)
7 Francois Louw (Stormers) – In the battle for the ball on the deck, few match his strength and instinctive positional play, and his defence remains brutally effective. (Contracted Bok – Juan Smith)
6 Deon Stegmann (Bulls) – Still better than anyone else even though he’s currently coming off the bench for the Bulls. (Contracted Boks – Heinrich Brüssow, Schalk Burger)
5 Anton van Zyl (Stormers) – He operated as a No4 lock at the weekend but his preferred position is in the No5 slot. Excellent work on the tight loose and a menace on the opposition’s line-out ball. (Contracted Boks – Victor Matfield, Andries Bekker)
4 Flip van der Merwe (Bulls) – He’s blossomed this season, which is good news, given Bakkies Botha’s constant injuries. (Contracted Boks – Bakkies Botha, Danie Rossouw)
3 Werner Kruger (Bulls) – Brilliant around the park and solid in the set piece. A Bok cap is just around the corner. (Contracted Bok – John Smit)
2 Tiaan Liebenberg (Stormers) – Marauding runs, shuddering defence and good set-piece work. (Contracted Bok – Bismarck du Plessis)
1 Gurthro Steenkamp (Bulls) – His loose play is his greatest asset but he’s rediscovered the art of scrumming, though he pulled up with a hamstring strain. (Contracted Bok – Tendai Mtawarira)
Reserves: 16 Adriaan Strauss (Cheetahs), 17 Wicus Blaauw (Stormers), 18 Steven Sykes (Sharks), 19 Jacques Botes (Sharks), 20 Sarel Pretorius (Cheetahs), 21 Lionel Mapoe (Cheetahs), 22 Gerhard van den Heever (Bulls).
15 Mar 2010, 11:09 am
@RugbyRulz:
There’s a difference between giving credit where it’s due, and the obvious delight in which Transformation made that comment.
As for the actual comparison: If Dag is indeed faster than Dippenaar then he is quicker than Habana as well, seeing as Dippenaar is quicker than Habana.
15 Mar 2010, 11:11 am
with Jane concussed Dagg should get the Ab full back spot, he could develop into the next Cullen, with a boot to boot. Better than Mills on current form and looking all the business for the future if they use him properly.
15 Mar 2010, 11:13 am
@Tacitus:
“I expected the Canes to come out firing against the Stormers. They didn’t.”
I don’t think you expected the canes to fire against the stormers, I think it’s more along the line of ‘hoping’ they would fire.
15 Mar 2010, 11:13 am
I am taking my hat of to this great rugby team…they are amazing to watch. Now, if only my beloved Lions can take a page from their book.
15 Mar 2010, 11:14 am
@Tacitus: I don’t know if he is faster, he certainly knows how to step, hit a gap and better yet… make something from nothing. He really is a talented player. I’d like this one to be an Aussie.
15 Mar 2010, 11:14 am
@WP Till I Die: That’s a great looking team…would like to see them go up against the contracted players…good depth for SA rugby
15 Mar 2010, 11:14 am
Israel “Mossad” Dagg was great on Saturday…future AB if you ask me.
15 Mar 2010, 11:16 am
@WP Till I Die:
So it appears:
15: Joe Pietersen
14: JP Pietersen, Francois Hougaard, Lionel Mapoe
13: Jacque Fourie, Juan de Jongh
12: Adi Jacobs, Wynand Olivier, Meyer Bosman
11: Bryan Habana, Jongi Nokwe, Gerhard van den Heever
10: Morne Steyn, Ruan Pienaar, Peter Grant
9: Fourie du Preez, Dewaldt Duvenage, Sarel Pretorius
8. Pierre Spies, Duanne Vermeulen
7: Juan Smith, Francois Louw
6: Schalk Burger, Heinrich Brussow, Deon Stegmann, Jacques Botes
5: Victor Matfield, Andries Bekker, Anton van Zyl
4: Bakkies Botha, Danie Rossouw, Flip van der Merwe, Steven Sykes
3: John Smit, Werner Kruger, Wicus Blaauw
2: Bismarck du Plessis, Tiaan Liebenberg, Adriaan Strauss
1: Beast Mtawarira, Gurthro Steenkamp
15 Mar 2010, 11:16 am
I don’t think jane will still be concussed for the tri nations sireli didn’t hit him that hard…
15 Mar 2010, 11:18 am
Dagg is quick make no mistake. Behind Van den Heever possibly the 2nd quickest on that field Saturday. Dippenaar was tracking him in one of his solo runs and wasn’t making any impression at all. While the Highlanders no 11 was holding pace with Van den Heever while tracking him to the corner, (but wasn’t making any gain on him either)
Between Dippenaar, Van den Heever, Dagg and Lander’s no.11 with Spies thrown in as the back marker some serious gas on the field.
Its not always fastest in a straight line thats most effective on a rugby field. Habana might get dropped by all those above but still has better finishing instinct than all of them combined perhaps.
15 Mar 2010, 11:18 am
@st.a.t.w:
Really? A mind reader now, are we?
15 Mar 2010, 11:21 am
@skopskiet:
I reckon that Vainikolo has some pace too.
In truth, I don’t know just how fast Dippenaar is. All I know is he is slower than vd Heever, but quicker than Habana.
And that was when they were all at the Bulls. Habana may have slowed down even more between last year and this year.
15 Mar 2010, 11:21 am
Dagg still better bet than Jane, concussion or not. And don’t minimalize a hit like that onto a players psyche. Kanko still hasn’t recovered from his ordeal of 2 years back and probably never will deep down.
15 Mar 2010, 11:22 am
@Tacitus:
regarding your comment last week that the canes won’t lose all their matches in SA
There is a slight chance that still might be correct
15 Mar 2010, 11:22 am
@st.a.t.w:
Indeed.
15 Mar 2010, 11:25 am
@skopskiet: It must be said the Vanikolo was tracking van den Heever after he had already run 50 metres, and but in a lot of effort stepping past the defence a number of times.
There are some seriously quick players in rugby at the moment, and agree that Habana’s strength is his ability to finish opportunities.
15 Mar 2010, 11:26 am
@Tacitus:
no need to read minds you’re making it fairly obvious
15 Mar 2010, 11:29 am
@st.a.t.w:
In truth, I was in two minds before the game.
The Canes need to lose as many as possible on their SA tour, since they will win most games when they’re back in NZ.
However, to prevent guys like yourself from yapping on forums like this, it wouldn’t have been completely tragic if the Stormers had slipped up.
In the greater scheme of things, though, the result was the most beneficial to my Bulls. Only difference is, I’ll have to wait till a bit later in the tournament for you guys to crawl back into your holes again.
15 Mar 2010, 11:31 am
@WOLFMAN21:
Look, vd Heever was cruising in to score the try at that point. If Vainikolo had any hope of cathing him, he would have gone for an ankle tap attempt.
The angle made them look closer than they were. At that point, all Vainikolo could hope for was to cut him off from scoring closer to the poles. Which was in vain as Steyn converted from the corner in any case.
15 Mar 2010, 11:34 am
@WP Till I Die:
Perhaps an extended 45-player squad to start looking at for the Tri-Nations?
Joe Pietersen, Zane Kirchner, JP Pietersen, Francois Hougaard, Lionel Mapoe, Bryan Habana, Jongi Nokwe, Gerhard van den Heever, Jacque Fourie, Juan de Jongh, Adi Jacobs, Wynand Olivier, Meyer Bosman, Morne Steyn, Ruan Pienaar, Peter Grant, Fourie Du Preez, Dewaldt Duvenage, Sarel Pretorius, Rory Kockett, Pierre Spies, Duanne Vermeuelen, Ryan Kankowski, Juan Smith, Francois Louw, Dewaldt Potgieter, Schalk Burger, Deon Stegmann, Sarel Botes, Victor Matfield, Andries Bekker, Anton van Zyl, Bakkies Botha, Danie Rossouw, Flip van der Merwe, Steven Sykes, John Smit, Werner Kruger, Wicus Blaauw, Bismarck du Plessis, Tiaan Liebenberg, Adriaan Strauss, Beast Mtawarira, Gurthro Steenkamp, Heinke van der Merwe.
15 Mar 2010, 11:35 am
yes Tacitus
Young Van den Heever is great prospect but lightweight in an international setting. In a loose S14 encounter he can show his speed and utilize the space brilliantly to his teams advantage, much like Spies does in a loose game. But in a tight dour international affair thats when you need some manly muscle to step up and be counted and I still think that young Gerhard is a little bit away from there yet.
Others like Habana, and even De Jongh and Mapoe are much more physical and exacting in a defensive role also more direct in attack, and perhaps that is what should be cultivated at international level rather than simply raw straight line pace.
15 Mar 2010, 11:40 am
@Tacitus: @Tacitus:
i bet you sit and watch the stormers every week hoping and praying for them to lose
sad actually.
15 Mar 2010, 11:47 am
@st.a.t.w:
You’ve got that wrong. What I do hope week after week is that I won’t have to scroll past 6 Stormers threads to get to one Bulls article.
Now that they’re winning consistently, that will probably become 12 Stormers articles for every one Bulls piece.
15 Mar 2010, 11:49 am
@skopskiet:
Habana good on defense? Must be a different Habana than the one who couldn’t stick to a defensive line while he was at the Bulls.
15 Mar 2010, 11:50 am
@Tacitus:
so you’re hoping they would lose so that there could be more bulls threads
15 Mar 2010, 11:53 am
Vainikolo had to turn around as his team was on attack and them try give chase from opposite wing position. It was quite an astonishing run by both of them because in spite of Van den Heever’s 10 or so mts head start on him Vainikolo was only about 4 mts behind at the line after 80 mts of flat out sprint. In a dead start 100 mts dash you cannot determine from that episode who would be faster, possibly they’d both finish within .02 of a sec of each other, i.e. within 2 mts of each other.
15 Mar 2010, 11:53 am
@st.a.t.w:
I think the remainder of the season is going to be interesting.
15 Mar 2010, 11:56 am
@Tacitus: Ah…we’ve found something we can agree on
15 Mar 2010, 11:57 am
@skopskiet: One thing is for sure, they are both damn quick!
15 Mar 2010, 11:59 am
@skopskiet:
That’s quite a deductive leap from you based on the limited information we have available, don’t you think.
One was running straight, but had to come from behind, the other was ducking and weaving between defenders and running diagonally across the field for the first 40m or so.
One was carrying a ball, the other wasn’t
One was going as fast as he could yet was still unsuccessful, the other was going only as fast as was needed to get a comfortable run in to the tryline.
In the end, vd Heever scored without a hand being laid on him by the chasing pack. Was he going at his fasest towards the end? We certainly know the defenders were trying their utmost, to no avail.
15 Mar 2010, 12:00 pm
Habana tends to drift inside looking for work on the inner channels and sometimes loses his cover defending position that way, but 1 on 1 Habana is definitely far more secure defensively than young Van den Heever is and far more physical in the tackle area also. Habana is like De Jongh, small of stature but pure packs of solid dynamite 1 on 1. A little like in the Heindrich Brussow mold. Unlike young Gerhard who is a little bit of a willow of the whisp if he had to encounter a lumbering Sereli Nakalavuki like poor Jane had to do.
15 Mar 2010, 12:05 pm
@skopskiet: To be fair there is quite a large difference in the amount of hours Habana and van den Heever have spent in the gym building up that frame of theirs. Give van den Heever a couple of seasons and then we can begin comparing.
15 Mar 2010, 12:06 pm
@skopskiet: I liken Habana to the little English pocket rocket Robinson. Both are hard men to bring down and bulldogs, one on one.
15 Mar 2010, 12:08 pm
@WOLFMAN21: This kids got pace and in time may well be the real deal. I like the look of his finishing and in time his tackling will improve. He will be nurtured at the bully kindergarden.
15 Mar 2010, 12:09 pm
This S14 has unearthed some nice talent in all countries. Really looking forward to this years Tri Nations; it is going to be a cracker.
15 Mar 2010, 12:12 pm
@Tacitus:
I know you dislike Habana since he became a Stormer, but lets not make lies.
Habana easily beat Dagg last week, while playing soccer next to the touchline. While Dagg outpaced Dippenaar on the weekend. Conclussion, Habana is faster than Dagg, Dippenaar and more than likely VdH – who almost got caught by a no-name islander. On top of all that, no back works harder off the ball than Habana.
I don’t rate Dippenaar at all, he is the obvious weakness on defense.
@RugbyRulz:
He let the Bulls score at least twice due to his cowardice under the highball, pay attention and you might notice these things.
15 Mar 2010, 12:14 pm
@RugbyRulz: The thing that I really like about him is his footwork, and his ability to evade tacklers.
This is not something we often see in South African wingers, many of whom specialise in straight line speed, finishing opportunites and dominating a contact situation. It is rare to have a winger who can create chances for himself. Him and Mapoe look to be good at this.
15 Mar 2010, 12:46 pm
@Kobus Kitty:#148 tell him kobus, izzy smoke dippenaar finish & klaar & there’s nothing that suggests one is a kiwi in acknowledging that…when digby ioane smokes players i cheer & applaud because i love rugby, not just the blue bulls or only afrikaner[stereotypical south african] players!!
@Tacitus: rugbyrulz has answered you, no need to add anything…
15 Mar 2010, 13:03 pm
@skopskiet: @Tacitus: Let’s keep perspective gentlemen. Watch the try again, v/d Heever had only to beat 3 defenders and 2 of those were forwards. Vanikolo at first did not chase hard because he figured his teammates would be able to stop “hurdles” only after realising that his teammates were all forward players (no. 3 & 7 if not mistaken) did he put up a chase.
So.. the jury is still out on “hurdles” TAC.
15 Mar 2010, 13:08 pm
@Transformation:
I re-watched that try and Morne Steyn was keeping up with Dagg on the inside. Don’t think he or Dippenaar are that fast at all. Decent journeyman pace.
@theOracle:
He stepped Vanikolo right in the beginning of his run.
15 Mar 2010, 13:37 pm
@Kobus Kitty: Oh dear KK, you really are retching.
From Lions to Bulls and now on the Stormer gravy train. They say women are fickle.
15 Mar 2010, 13:42 pm
@Kobus Kitty: izzy blitzed that boy man…morne, come now?
15 Mar 2010, 13:58 pm
@Blouste: 35
I have not watch the match or see that try yet, but the distance covered by v/d Heever has now increased from 70-80m according to some newspaper reports to 90 odd meters.
By the end of the week it will probably be 110 meters.
15 Mar 2010, 14:13 pm
@nama1: I have watched it a couple of times and saying he ran 90 metres is stretching the truth.
He actually started his run from row Z in the stand behind his tryline, stepped the security guard, beat the ball boy for pace, and then beat 19 Highlanders to score under the posts while jumping over the rugby posts, getting the conversion out of the way before scoring the try.
15 Mar 2010, 14:29 pm
@nama1: With all the zigging and zagging, hurdling over players, it could have been 110m. It was flash.
15 Mar 2010, 14:47 pm
@WOLFMAN21:@RugbyRulz:
15 Mar 2010, 14:49 pm
@WOLFMAN21:
he even caught the conversion which Morne slotted, this from standing at the half way line…
15 Mar 2010, 14:55 pm
@Transformation:
I have watched the footage more than once, while you obviously have not. Morne Steyn was right next to him on the inside.
It wasn’t mind boggling pace. You watch Habana vs Australia in Perth 2005, both of his tries he was running at incredible speed.
@RugbyRulz:
How about ‘dem Aussie teams in the top 4? Oh wait….
At least some of us have a train to get on.
15 Mar 2010, 15:01 pm
@Kobus Kitty: no one remember the penalty that was not called before the try was scored? and was it 4 Saffa refs?
payback from Kaplan?
15 Mar 2010, 15:04 pm
@poppa69: Do you actually watch rugby to enjoy it, or are you to busy trying to conjure up alleged errors by the ref?
15 Mar 2010, 15:11 pm
@Kobus Kitty: The Aussie teams are certainly not in the top 4 and don’t think any will win this year. I can live with 3 teams doing ok. 3 Middle order batsmen will do fine come the business end of the year.
15 Mar 2010, 15:14 pm
@poppa69: 161 Don’t go near the refs please, they’re sacrosanct. If you read what Stephen Jones has to say (and other Journos) about Plonker then the entire SA reffing board would come tumbling down.
Plonker = Jonker
15 Mar 2010, 15:17 pm
@WOLFMAN21: alleged
just having a laugh, and of course I watch rugby to enjoy it…I watched every game this last weekend…
15 Mar 2010, 15:48 pm
@poppa69: It was a pretty good weekend of rugby. I find it fair more interesting focusing on the players rather than the ref!
I can’t stand it when people blame it on the ref, and moan about “ANZAC conspiracies”. John Smit would have been better suited focusing on his scrumming last week, rather than moaning about the ref.
15 Mar 2010, 16:36 pm
I reserve judgement re: Bulls and Stormers until they’ve returned from their respective tours…
15 Mar 2010, 16:42 pm
@brains_trust: 167. Yup. They both have very similar starts to the S14 that the Sharks had last few years. Only for the Sharks to run out of steam in the business end of the tournament.
The Bulls have done it. The Stormers – for all the talk and promise – when was the last time they were in a S14 semifinal?
15 Mar 2010, 16:44 pm
@brains_trust: Good call my son, but the thing is a team needs around 42 points to Q for the semis. We already have 20 after 4. So we have 50% of the points after 30% of the competition.
The maths point to another home semi I am afraid kid.
16 Mar 2010, 00:49 am
@RugbyRulz:
I suppose you think Stuart Dickinson and Paul Marks are better? South Africa has the top refs, almost everyone openly admits that.
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