Expect a red hot Cardiff clash
4 Jun 2010
There is no such thing as a ‘nothing’ Test. Saturday’s Bok confrontation with Wales in Cardiff has significance.
The Springboks, in the build-up to the 2007 World Cup, relished every chance they had to play – and beat – England. Even when they thrashed an England side in South Africa missing the core of their regulars the Boks spoke up the meaning of constantly winning against blokes wearing the English white jersey.
Wales have only beaten the Boks once in 100 years, but they’ve come bloody close on a couple of occasions, and the 20-15 Bok win in Cardiff in 2008 could very easily have been a Welsh victory.
Both teams are missing regulars, but it is by no means the best of Wales against a second string Bok team. It is the best available Welsh team and it isn’t that far off the best Bok team, especially now that Fourie du Preez is out for the year.
The Bok tight five is the best that currently can be selected and while I’d always select Schalk Burger and Juan Smith to start at next year’s World Cup, Francois Louw and Dewald Potgieter were the form South African loose-forwards in the Super 14. Joe van Niekerk has been outstanding at flank and No 8 for Toulon for the last two years and there isn’t much to choose between an in-form Van Niekerk and a firing Pierre Spies.
At halfback one of Ricky Januarie or Ruan Pienaar will start for the Boks this season and how they perform against Wales will have a huge bearing on the Boks’ season. The Springboks cannot play the same quality kicking game without Du Preez and his unavailability is a leveller because it forces the Boks to adjust their attack.
Butch James should have played and the intention was always to move Pienaar to halfback in the second half and James to flyhalf. Hypocrisy and greed, in terms of Player Welfare and remuneration, means James has to watch from the stands. It is an opportunity lost.
Jaque Fourie is the best outside centre in South Africa, Francois Steyn is the best selection at fullback and Juan de Jongh has been on the rise all season and would have been in an extended Bok squad, regardless of Jean de Villiers’s availability and that of Bulls centre Wynand Olivier.
Gio Aplon and Francois Hougaard were the most exciting of the wingers in the competition and are fighting it out for one place with JP Pietersen and Lionel Mapoe injured. So when you consider a match 22 of who is fit to play for the Boks in the next two months, the players missing for Cardiff are Bakkies Botha, Burger, Spies, Morne Steyn, Bryan Habana and one of De Villiers or Olivier at inside centre.
This team isn’t as second rate as some have made out, and 10 of those starting in Cardiff would always start.
The preparation for the Boks has not been easy because of the chaos around James’s selection and withdrawal three times in three days. What is important in the context of the Test is the presence of John Smit and Victor Matfield, the two most experienced tight forwards currently playing international rugby.
Wales, since Warren Gatland became coach, have closed the gap on the Boks in every Test, and there is a belief within the Welsh squad that Saturday will be the occasion they actually close it completely and win.
I would not bet my house against it happening. Victory for the Boks will show this side can win without the halfback kicking game of Du Preez and (Morne) Steyn, which as a combination has no equal in rugby.
Defeat will give every one of the chasing pack belief that there is a vulnerability to the Boks when Du Preez isn’t wearing No 9.
I don’t buy the dismissive attitude some have to this Test. I think it is massively significant in terms of the World Cup and because of the nature of the build-up trying to pick a winner would be the equal of picking a lotto number.
You’ll know within the first five minutes who is going to come out on top, but on a Friday afternoon trying to call this one would be like taking a leak in the dark. You may think you know which way it is going, but there can’t be any certainty.
If the Boks win this Test it has to be acknowledged what a good win it is. If they lose, there has to be a similar acknowledgement that the defeat will have an impact on their season and especially their pysche with respect to Wales at next year’s World Cup.
294 Comments
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4 Jun 2010, 17:56 pm
@WOLFMAN21(WOLFMAN21)-199: Agreed on Brussow. He was my player of 2009.
Some fans have forgotten the massive value he brought to the table.
He is also a deceptively efficient ball carrier.
4 Jun 2010, 17:58 pm
@Agile T*t-Tyrant(Stegmannenov)-198: @WOLFMAN21(WOLFMAN21)-199: Was good chatting to you guys.
I am out.
4 Jun 2010, 18:01 pm
@willievz(willievz)-202: Have a good weekend.
4 Jun 2010, 18:04 pm
@WOLFMAN21(WOLFMAN21)-199:
GvdHeever weighs 95Kgs. You want him to tip the 100 mark?
i won’t want him to become to heavy, he might lose that nice light step he has.
Well, first of all, I’d play my most ruthless team so Bismarck above Smit. Captaincy schmaptaincy. Like I said, we have Matfield, FdP, Spies in the forwards as the starters. In the backs we have J Fourie and JdV (all these guys have captained their sides (except Spiesa, but he was Affies captain and is the next Bulls captain so).
I don’t beleive De Jongh is good enough yet, I’d take Hougaard over him just for center, but he’s at 9 backup, and utility. If M Steyn goes down, F Steyn to 10, and J Fourie to 15, JdV to 13 WO in at 12. Hougie can also play wing and center, JdV wing and center.
1 CJ/Steenkamp
2 Bismarck
3 BJ
4 Bakkies
5 Victor
6 Stegmann
7 J Smith
8 Spies
9 FdP
10 M Steyn
11 habs
12 JdV
13 J Fourie
14 GvdH
15 F Steyn.
Unfortunately there’s no space then for Bekker. But it all will depend on game plan (slightly and oppo). Burger won’t make my team if Stegmann, Brussow are fit. And unfortunately then I can’t have Brussow on the bench either. But this is of course general purpose. With 3 props CJ/Steenkamp is at 16.
This basically covers everything.
4 Jun 2010, 18:05 pm
@WOLFMAN21(WOLFMAN21)-199:
you won’t beleive I posted and it flopped. I’ll type it again.
4 Jun 2010, 18:05 pm
oh there it is.
4 Jun 2010, 18:07 pm
Hey, anyone know where I can watch the game in San Diego, CA?
4 Jun 2010, 18:08 pm
@willievz(willievz)-202:
Cheers boet.
4 Jun 2010, 18:09 pm
@SpringbokSarah(SpringbokSarah)-200:
Why? be honest, you’re just concerned for F Louw’s safety aren’t you? Out with. You see, that’s another benefit of playing Stegmann instead- you won’t have to worry about Flo getting hurt.
4 Jun 2010, 18:10 pm
@Agile T*t-Tyrant(Stegmannenov)-206: The spreadsheets make you crazy!
Thats a good looking team – only really differ about Smit. If he isn’t going to be captain though it has to happen soon, giving Matfield the chance to pick up the reigns.
Van den Heever was held up over the line three or 4 times this season, so he might weigh 95kgs, but he isn’t strong enough yet to put the ball down in contact. I hope he is fit for the Currie Cup as his development is coming along very nicely. I forgot to mention Mapoe as another chance on the wing, but I don’t think his Super 14 season was very good and he is injured.
Potgieter to captain the Bulls ahead of Spies?
4 Jun 2010, 18:15 pm
@gregSD(gregSD)-207: Look for a hook up online. The game isn’t being broadcast on a lot of networks apparently, so they might not be showing it in any bars in your area, unless you can catch one with a Supersport connection or BBC.
4 Jun 2010, 18:20 pm
@gregSD(gregSD)-207: look at this address: www dot myp2p dot eu/competition.php?competitionid=&part=sports&discipline=rugby
4 Jun 2010, 18:25 pm
@WOLFMAN21(WOLFMAN21)-210:
Fristly, I think if you approach retirement and want to “holdout” to make a WC, you obviously have to be good enough to continue well after the WC. This, I don’t think is the case with Smit and he should have retired in 2009. Perhaps.
2nd, wrt GvdH being held up- it boils down to lack of experience (it was 3 times). The encouraging thing is that he made all those opportunities by himself. I especially liked the one against the Hurricanes. Also you have to remember that it could also happen purely coincidentally. But he should have dive this way or that way. it doesn’t matter still the leading try-scorer before his ban.
3rd, Spies I think will captain the Bulls before Potties. Spies has a massive influence on that team.
4 Jun 2010, 18:31 pm
@Agile T*t-Tyrant(Stegmannenov)-213: Yep, those tries he didn’t score showed me more about his talent than some of the tries he did score! Those missed chances were, as you point out, self created, and on a couple of them he beat 4 or 5 players with a sweet step, change of pace etc. The talent is there, and he will improve. His defence improved as the tournament went on and his work rate will improve also.
I agree that Spies has a massive impact, but I wonder if he is a talker. I reckon he could be the type of player who has a huge influence on the team, and doesn’t need to be captain to do this, whereas a player like Slagkos (wtf?!) might be what is needed if there are a number of new players. I guess we will wait and see!
4 Jun 2010, 18:38 pm
@WOLFMAN21(WOLFMAN21)-214:
1st on GvdH, it wasn’t only his “sweet step and change of pace”, but his brute force too remember. His defence probably did improve as it wore on…but this is normal for a young kid in a big team, he wants affirmation about every little blerrie thing he does. He got sucker out of his channel in the first 4 games , and I was highly annoyed, until I realized it’s because he doesn’t trust Zane Kirchner enough, and a time or two he went for the intercept in an obvious attempt to impress, which was unnecessary.
RE Spies, he communicates very well with his men, you see it on the field. I don’t know if Potties has got the gift of the gab so tremendously that you’d throw him ahead straight away like that. I think perhaps people perceive Spies as a “good guy” like the latest SARugby where Ryan says that of him. Then people assume that Spies is apussy. not so.
4 Jun 2010, 18:43 pm
@WOLFMAN21(WOLFMAN21)-214:
BTW, I think perhaps Potties is called ‘Slangkos’ because of his light complexion and hair.
We call guys like that “witrot”. We had a guy like that at school. And obviously when you keep snakes you feed them rats, like those white ones you buy from breeders…
I assume this is where Potties got the nick “Slangkos”, or maybe it isn’t even his nic and Victor was simply pulling his leg.
Though the hair I see has fallen in the way quite a bit with Potties having to wear an alice band or wipe it from his eyes, or pri it from the grasp of Johan Muller. Not ideal IMO, but good if you eant to get noticed for the flashy stuff (which is how most people I see tend to rate theor favourites with)
4 Jun 2010, 19:11 pm
Premier Rugby has lodged a formal complaint to the International Rugby Board, over South African Rugby Union statements, as the Butch James saga continues to escalate.
With last year’s Springbok ‘armband protest’ and the IRB’s unhappiness with the Boks’ conduct still fresh in the mind, the possibility of a ban being imposed on John Smit and his team has resurfaced.
The latest complaint against SARU and the Bok camp follows the decision to pull James, who plays his club rugby for Bath in the UK, out of Saturday’s one-off Test against Wales.
Having been recalled to the Bok line-up for the first time in nearly two years, James, unwittingly, now finds himself in the middle of an ugly public spat between his country, his club and Premier Rugby.
Premier Rugby, the umbrella organisation responsible for managing the 12 professional clubs in England, have since won their ‘dispute’ with the South African Rugby Union over the services of the World Cup-winning Bok.
However, on Thursday SARU President Oregan Hoskins and acting MD Andy Marinos expressed their unhappiness with Premier Rugby – which has now resulted in a riposte from the English organisation.
Premier Rugby has confirmed that they will lodge a formal complaint with the IRB.
“Following comments reported to have been made by the South African Rugby Union at the press conference yesterday [Thursday], Premier Rugby will regrettably have to make a formal complaint to the IRB alleging a breach of international regulations by SARU through their actions and statements this week,” the statement said.
“These actions and statements have been repeatedly directed against Bath Rugby and Premier Rugby and seem to have been designed to put unfair pressure on the player and his club, who have acted in accordance with the IRB’s regulations and to deflect attention away from the real causes of the issue.
“June matches in the international calendar are played in the southern hemisphere and the schedule is settled years in advance. Apparently this extra one-off match outside the schedule and in the northern hemisphere was only arranged earlier this year and seems to be primarily a money-making exercise for which SARU is apparently receiving a large fee.
“When arranging a match outside the international window, all Unions should be aware of their regulations concerning player release. On Wednesday, it became clear that SARU had not properly understood these regulations.
“As a result, actions have been taken and statements made by SARU which have been damaging to the interests of the player, his club and Premier Rugby.”
It will be the second time in less than a year that SARU faces a possible IRB disciplinary hearing.
In August last year an IRB disciplinary hearing imposed a fine of £10,000 (ZAR113,000) on SARU, £200 (ZAR2,260) against each of the other players who wore the protest armbands and £1,000 (ZAR11,300) against captain John Smit.
The action arose from the SA national team and management wearing armbands during the third Test against the British & Irish Lions on July 4 – as a protest action, following the upholding of Bakkies Botha’s two-week suspension.
At the time the IRB made it clear that had it not been for the “legal technicalities” (including the fact that the Committee felt it had to take a “necessarily strict interpretation” of certain aspects of Regulation 17), both SARU and the Springbok players and management would have faced much more serious sanctions.
This, according to the IRB, included a more severe fine in the case of SARU and the suspension of the Springbok players and management from the World Cup 2011.
The IRB said at the time that they gave “serious consideration” to bringing an appeal against the level of sanctions imposed against SARU and the Boks.
And they also made it clear that they took into consideration the Schalk Burger eye-gouging case, which saw the Bok flank banned for eight weeks at the time.
4 Jun 2010, 19:22 pm
@Agile T*t-Tyrant(Stegmannenov)-217:
They should have thrown the entire book, nay library, at the righteous arrogant sods.
Justice4 BaXXies ?
Repeat offender of the same injury-inducing technique prior to this match. During this match; victim injured for 6mths. And after this match a few weeks ago; victim injured.
And what did we hear at the time of the Lions Test ?
“he’s not like that”.
The same excuse they used about Burgers gouging. The same excuse used during the RWC for Reckless Play by Burger.
“He’s not like that”.
W R O N G !
4 Jun 2010, 19:22 pm
Nothing but another quota show case IMO
The conviction in the self induced excitement of the article is thin, it means nothing for the Boks and Walse are well hit by injuries.
But it will be fun to watch Pienaar fumbles Januarie passes or balls bounce off Ndungane or dropped passes by De Jungh
4 Jun 2010, 19:38 pm
@Black Panther(Black Panther)-218:
Bakkies doesn’t mind hurting people, as long as it’s done legally, which it was, both times (excessive force is a silly issue to raise in rugby, really).
On Burger, I’m not sure he wanted to harm the man last year. One could argue in the same spirit that Spies was blocking the “victim’s” keeping him from defending himself.
I think Burger went out to hurt some players in the S14 final, I forget the exact time, but he hit Wynand Olivier with a fist basically when “assisting” the tackle on Saturday, and in protest of the ref went out to injure Stegmann at 67:00; his 2nd major source of frustration.
4 Jun 2010, 19:39 pm
@Agile T*t-Tyrant(Stegmannenov)-220:
“victim’s HAND”
4 Jun 2010, 20:51 pm
@agile tyrant’s-tits: #217 oh my goodness!! What is up with this Poms? Didn’t the IRB say Butch can play, so what are these cry-babies looking for?
Are they hoping the Boks will be banned from the RWC? Hahahaha how feebleminded
4 Jun 2010, 21:48 pm
@Transformation(Transformation)-222: haha, probably a lot of countries wet dream at the moment considering the boks form.
what a great commercial idea though. take a couple or ten million off the nzru profit margin, that should finish them off.
4 Jun 2010, 21:53 pm
baabaas lead the oirish 21-10.
good game actually.
4 Jun 2010, 21:55 pm
@Black Panther(Black Panther)-218: haha, dont get all wet in your blackpanty now sonny.
the boks will be there to contest the wc 2011.
no gifts ala 1987 this time boyo.
4 Jun 2010, 21:57 pm
heymans try.
26-13 baabaas.
4 Jun 2010, 22:09 pm
@rangerman: #225 i actually enjoy wakanathan’s posts when he is not wailing like on post 18. I don’t know somehow he just loses it and switch moan-gat mode. How many times is he going to carry on about bakkies when back @ the ranch he has a serial offender like lauaki who clothes lined Habana?
4 Jun 2010, 22:21 pm
@Transformation(Transformation)-227: i think he will whine forever.
and ever.
he doesnt come here for discussion mate, he comes here to vent.
i hope it helps him because it certainly makes me happy to realise that the boks own his thoughts
4 Jun 2010, 22:24 pm
@Agile T*t-Tyrant(Stegmannenov)-215:
“I don’t know if Potties has got the gift of the gab so tremendously that you’d throw him ahead straight away like that.”
All of which is why he captained SA Schools, Blue Bulls, Emerging Boks vs BILS and Boks vs Sarries.
Let’s talk facts guys, not conjecture.
4 Jun 2010, 22:39 pm
baabaas win 29-23.
a great game.
4 Jun 2010, 22:39 pm
sjoe, these irish commentators make the aussies look like the united nations…
4 Jun 2010, 22:51 pm
@gunther(gunther)-231:
they were practically begging for a yellow card and gave the MOM award to an irish player 15 mins before the game ended.
LMAO!
4 Jun 2010, 23:03 pm
@rangerman(rangerman)-232:
lol I expected Seamus/Flaherty/Declan to invade the pitch waving a card, everytime a baa baa made a tackle there a the hopefull query
“was that high bertie?”….
I wonder if blackpanty has any Irish in him?
5 Jun 2010, 01:21 am
Spies is a domkopf compared to Potgieter
If Bulls management make Spies captain ahead of Potgieter then they don’t know wtf they actually doing.
As for Spies vs Joe Van Niekerk, as rugby players go, Joe 100 times the 8th man that Spies will ever be,
typical dom doos saffa sentiment, if its big and fast and thick as two planks then it must be better than Swiss cheese
JvN will play Spies into oblivion every time, and so too D. Vermeulen, can’t blame him for the tight five’s demise against the Bulls, Vermeulen and Flo were the only two performing when the schmuck ref Joubert handed Bulls all the cherry picked momentum and possession on a plate.
5 Jun 2010, 02:35 am
@skopskiet(yliad)-234:
Agreed every time re Big Joe. What a player ! An awesome no8, 1 of the best since Zinny. Spies is big and fast, great in open space. But thats it. Big Joe has wonderful hands and is a mongrel. Just right. He was superb at Carisbrook. A shame injury hit and then the move out of the spotlight to France.
5 Jun 2010, 02:46 am
@Transformation(Transformation)-227:
Im on record here, many times, as saying Lauaki should have had his contract ripped up by the NZRFU. Big useless thick lazy piece of serial-offending sh*t should have been shown the door years ago.
But he’s nowhere the on-field THUG that dear BaXXies is.
You used to be smart. What happened ?
Fickle little man arent you. I suppose thats why BH has his fan club here, always blowing the smoke where it tickles. Make your way to 235, maybe that will keep you happy for 5mins. Cretin.
BaXXies was only recently banned. For a flying-headbutt, his ‘signature move’. And some here were proved rather right in the process…..Furthermore, my post was a response to someone who “brought up” the BaXXies incident. Not I.
5 Jun 2010, 06:46 am
@blackpanther: “you used to be smart, what happened?” i hang around the likes of you, so i’m forced to dumb down.
chap, at any oppotunity you get, you’re flinging vitriol about baxxies UNPROVOKED, you convince yourself that we must have little or no memories when you suggest $hit like “the springboks 1st team lost to the british & irish lions, when you know exactly that pdv made 10 changes to the starting line up with guys like kirchner on debut & a centre combo of wynand olivier & jaque fourie that probably last played together in 2006 if they did!
Big Hit is appreciated here because he is independent of mind & isn’t prone to emotional outbursts like say…..yourself
5 Jun 2010, 08:19 am
@Transformation(Transformation)-237:
‘unprovoked’ ?
Please note that post no 218 follows post no 217.
As for you ‘flinging vitriol’ abut the Lions 3rd Test selection, again, I simply cant understand your problem. 1. it was a Test and 2. The Boks selected their own team, noone else did and 3. they lost.
Where is the conjecture ?
So what youre saying that unless the team is, what YOU consider to be the ’1st XV’, then the records dont count ?
And yet Ive seen you try to claim the BaaBaas victory over the 2nd-string ABs in November as a “4th Springbok victory” because of the high number of Boks. And it wasnt even a Test match.
flinging vitriol indeed.
too much hanging around with that dimwit Rangertwit would do that to anyone. Didnt your Mum tell you how important it is to choose your friends wisely ?
5 Jun 2010, 08:34 am
@Black Panther(Black Panther)-238: don’t let that zulu hating doos lecture you on the virtues of being a decent blogger like big hit who sucks up to saffas here… at first i thought he was a saffa when i got onto this forum.bakkies is pure human garbage and don’t let this zulu hater tells you otherwise.
5 Jun 2010, 08:39 am
Good luck Boks…….do us proud boys !!!!!!!
5 Jun 2010, 08:44 am
rangerman is the cancer on this site and unlike certain bloggers like this zulu hater i shall never suck up to this piece of human garbage who calls himself rangerman.he should take the man out of his nick because he is nothing but a nasty slimy little rodent who thnks he is god’s gift to rugby blogs.
5 Jun 2010, 08:52 am
How freaking mobile is that irish hooker? the Irish scored a great try in the first half, O-gara makes a Kobus Wiese look like Usain Bolt.
5 Jun 2010, 08:58 am
@WOLFMAN21(WOLFMAN21)-211: it’s on the BBC Red Button and BBC Wales (which will probably mean on the BBC website). S4C and Setanta are carrying it too.
5 Jun 2010, 09:15 am
Good morning everybody! It is beautiful to behold the sharing of the lurve on the blog today. Why don’t you guys focus on the game and stop raising to the bait every time? Mud-slinging and taking things personally is not what this place is all about FFS
5 Jun 2010, 09:33 am
I think the Springboks must give the welsh such a thrashing that they’ll never be able to look us in the eye without trembing in their shoes
5 Jun 2010, 09:33 am
@Black Panther(Black Panther)-238: BLACK PANTHER, the story goes that during a match where Bakkies Botha and Rueben Thorne were both involved, Thorne flattened Bakkies. While Bakkies was down and dealing with the flashing stars and the ref busy with the penalty Bakkies shouted..”Ref, ref….whatever you do, don’t send him off!!!”
5 Jun 2010, 10:13 am
Not on Sentanta in AU.FECK
5 Jun 2010, 10:24 am
@scorpion(capestormer)-239:
Actually, Im fairly sure he IS a Safa.
But Im not sure which is more embarrassing….being a Safa but pretending to be a Pom in a desperate bid for ‘neutral credibility’ OR being a Pom that sucks up to Safas and disses all-things NZ for some referred blogger-manlove.
Either way he has compromised himself so severely that its impossible, now, to know when he’s being serious. A shame, because he clearly knows his footy but because of his desperation for attention, lacks credibility with it.
@scorpion(capestormer)-241:
I like you. Stick around.
This belief that some people here ‘rule’ Keo like its their personal fiefdom is all rather sad.
@whistleblower(whistleblower)-246:
HA ! love these tales.
And, of course, you meant Brad Thorn not Reuben Thorne. I presume.
Brad and BaXXies were meant for each other – they are cut from the same cloth (albeit a little more material required for BaXXies).
5 Jun 2010, 10:30 am
@black panther: #238 hahaha you’re mistaking me for rangerman bra, i have never EVER referred to the Barbarians game against the All Blacks as a fourth Tri-nations game but i certainly know people who have.
I can’t now be guilty by virtue of being a saffa
On the b&i lions 3rd Test: when you go around saying it was the 1st team that lost the match i will take you on everytime. Drum it through your head that the team that took to the field @ Ellis Park last year is NOT the Bok 1st team, the regte manne are the ones the nilled you last year! i hope we have that sorted!
5 Jun 2010, 10:33 am
@scorpion(capestormer): #239 dude i have no idea where you’re coming from with your thrash talk but i would suggest you cool it. as for calling me a “zulu hater” you missed the joke, so just stopping making a fool of yourself..
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