‘Not filling 15 may bite Boks’
30 Jun 2010
Without Frans Steyn and Fourie du Preez, the Springboks have lost key components to their Tri-Nations title defence.
Peter de Villiers explained Steyn’s omission from the 28-man squad due to the Racing Metro-based back being off pace and that the standard of European club competitions wasn’t as fast as Super Rugby, but still picked three players (BJ Botha, CJ van der Linde and Butch James) who played there last season.
The June Tests also haven’t been used well in trying to find the scrumhalf and fullback’s respective replacements. Steyn started against Wales but since, Zane Kirchner, Gio Aplon and even Ruan Pienaar have run at 15, showing the confusion over the position.
Steyn was also the difference the last time the Boks met the All Blacks, his three long-range penalties a feat no other player in the world can achieve.
Eddie Jones says it’s no coincidence that the six Tests that Steyn started at fullback last year, the Boks won.
‘Frans is one of the most gifted players in the world, and to leave him out when he’s available, you must think you’re going pretty well,’ Jones told keo.co.za.
‘At fullback, he’s a big guy who can kick the ball as long as anyone, is reasonably safe under the high ball and he has something about him. Kirchner still hasn’t proved that he’s a Test player although he’s played very well in the Super 14, and he tends to have that habit of making two or three iffy mistakes a game. Aplon is a very good little player but he’s probably a better winger than fullback at Test level.
‘There’s a potential hole there that they haven’t filled and not picking Steyn may come back and bite them. He also kicks goals regularly from over 50m.’
The loss of Du Preez is not by choice, but his exclusion due to injury will hurt the Boks even more. Even though the law interpretations have changed since last year’s competition, Du Preez’s boot, brain and all-round brilliance will be missed.
‘They’ll be massive losses,’ Jones said of Steyn and Du Preez. ‘South Africa haven’t faced good enough quality opposition to realise how much they’re gonna miss them, particularly Fourie.
‘One of the things that stood out in the Super 14 was that the Bulls were the best attacking team in the competition – they scored the most tries per game – but having said that, they were also the side that kicked the most. It’s a simplistic way of looking at it but it’s quite true: their kicking was so accurate, it gave them field position to score tries.
‘The architect of most of those kicks was undoubtedly Fourie and to not have him playing for South Africa when games get tight, with long kicks or high kicks that are contestable, they’re really going to feel it. The other part of Fourie is that his tactical nous is second to none in the world and they’ve lost huge intellectual capital, which again will hard to replace in big Tests.’
Finding Du Preez’s replacement during June also hasn’t been executed well, with Ricky Januarie seemingly having a monopoly on the No 9 jersey. De Villiers gave Pienaar just 16 minutes throughout four Tests in his favoured position of scrumhalf, with Januarie playing 304 out of a possible 320.
‘Ruan’s shown his hand by signing for Ulster that his confidence has been dented, there’s no doubt about that. If he was confident about where he was, he wouldn’t go to Ulster because he’s a proud South African who wants to play for the Boks,’ said Jones.
Jones still rates Pienaar as a flyhalf, but the player has shown his desire to play scrumhalf and Jones says he must only be played in one position by his coaches.
‘It’s interesting to look at his performances at flyhalf, he was good there in the first Test against the Lions. He missed some kicks but still played reasonably well in the second – people tend to forget that. Every time he’s played at 10 for South Africa he’s played well,’ he said, including the Boks’ opening Tri-Nations fixture against the All Blacks in Bloemfontein.
‘He’s past the stage where he’s a young kid and he really needs to become a specialist. You find guys who are shifted around, as they get older, they tend to become bits and pieces players. The only thing they’re good for is limited overs cricket or 20/20, but not for Tests anymore.
‘He’s a tough and talented kid who plays hard for his country, but he needs to find his position.’
By Grant Ball
380 Comments
Pages: « 1 2 3 4 5 6 [7] 8 » Show All
30 Jun 2010, 15:48 pm
@willievz(willievz)-296:
Well didn’t you just answer that (if that is the case)?
There is more to this than rugby reasons.
So exactly whose responsibility is it to sort that out?
Who needs to come to the party?
Luke Watson was readied to be dragged out for a public stoning wrt his attitude towards the Boks and Bok rugby.
If his attitude is the problem, I suggest Frans fixes it.
30 Jun 2010, 15:48 pm
Anycase gents got to run.
Ciao.
30 Jun 2010, 15:49 pm
@willievz(willievz)-298: Exactly good point . Like JP Pietersen who is always perfect.
30 Jun 2010, 15:50 pm
@willievz(willievz)-296: i am with you there. If Ricky is playing himself fit Frans could also have done the same. I think there are deeper issues as well.
Frans needs to do what he has to to get PDV on his side again. Unfortunately there are rugby reasons that is keeping him out as well.
That being said, we will not lose the TN because of him not being there.
30 Jun 2010, 15:50 pm
@PissAnt(PissAnt)-294: The fluidity is a good thing in terms of backline player development I would think… (Most fluid backline being the ABs.) Also the encouragement to try new things is also a plus for the development of a young player like Steyn – put it this way – he is learning how to see the game in a whole new way over there.
Some, not all, T14 games were pretty intense last season. The crowd support for many of the clubs is fantastic.
30 Jun 2010, 15:51 pm
did I read that some nutjob wrote that “Earl Rose deserves a chance at fullback”?
based on what?
…that the rest are s14 material only?
surely this can’t be for real?
earl rose, at best…is an amateur rugby player who should not be earning a paypacket based on his showings.
30 Jun 2010, 15:52 pm
@gecko(gecko)-300: Neither of those two flankers played in a test on the ’93 tour.
But those were shocking selections.
30 Jun 2010, 15:53 pm
@PissAnt(PissAnt)-294:
He kinda killed it when selecting overseas players for 2010 tri-nations?????
He is the national coach – not god….yes he has a lot of say, but in the end he is still responsible for put the best team on the field (restrictions taken into cosnsideration) – even if he does not select overseas players – knowing that potential greats are playing overseas -s taying in touch with these players to see if they are ready to head home?? maybe not a requirement, but would definitely make my list of differences between a good and great coach!
PS – don’t get me wrong here, I think P Div has performed very well, and has caused a lot of people (present company included) to eat hiumble pie!!!!
30 Jun 2010, 15:54 pm
@moedeloos(moedeloos)-293: It is relative…
However there is no doubting the higher intensity of S14.
The T14 is a very good comp – I enjoy it whether watching on the box or live. I have watched more than a couple in France myself…
30 Jun 2010, 15:55 pm
@Brigadier Van Zyl(Brigadier Van Zyl)-306: I’m the one who said that. And I said it would be a controvershal thing to say. But he has been badly and unfairly treeted. He is truly international class. Forget the Super 14. He only plays well if you have faith in him . Look at the end of year games last year in Europe. he was our best player in at least 2 games. No other backline player IN MY OPINION is as naturally gifted and have so much potential.
30 Jun 2010, 15:56 pm
@willievz(willievz)-307: So was Andries Truscott
30 Jun 2010, 15:56 pm
@J.B. Cowper(J.B. Cowper)-299: not most of the players. Thus far all the players except Fransie.
I agree that there are issues there. But do you expect the coach to grovel to a player when for rugby reasons currently he is not in good form. the same player who took the money over the chance to play for the boks. Carl hayman did the same, you dont see NZ journos moaning about the coach not selecting him.
30 Jun 2010, 15:57 pm
@PissAnt(PissAnt)-297:
No offence, but Fark the kiwis, them doing it is not a pointer to something being OK? Any country with this mentality is stupid by me, but the whole overseas selection policy is a different argument.
Talking about the Kiwis – no problem in getting king carter back ASAP when it was required though?????
30 Jun 2010, 15:59 pm
@PissAnt(PissAnt)-301:
What exactly is the issue?
(a) Is it Steyn leaving in the first place for greener pastures?
If so, I see James, CJ and co getting selected for the Boks despite the PDV stance on foreign players.
(b) Is it Steyn performing in a less demanding league?
If so, I can make the argument that he will be even fresher than his peers, and a few matches at the highest level will allow him to reach optimal match fitness.
(c) Did Steyn publicly state that he is not available for the Boks?
I cannot recall that, only that PDV has not been in touch with him at all since he left. However, I agree that his handling of the situation was appalling.
But there are two sides to the coin.
30 Jun 2010, 16:00 pm
@gecko(gecko)-311: And the other hooker, Harry Roberts?
30 Jun 2010, 16:00 pm
@gecko(gecko)-300: Botha Rossouw, thats the guy… Fark me, I have never seen such a left field pick as that…
30 Jun 2010, 16:13 pm
@willievz(willievz)-315: Yes, but when it came to the test matches, they picked Willie Hills. A prop. Who was Bok prop again 1st few games in 1993.
30 Jun 2010, 16:18 pm
312. Moedeloos -
Yes, coach should not grovel – and the only thing that has not been mentioned is if, as a player, he is bad for team morale – in which case it doesn’t matter who you are, you shouldn’t be there.
Personally I think it is straight-up ego clash … I was overjoyed when he opened up the selection to the full pool of players at our disposal – but with Frans he’s got an issue – and to answer your question: should Frans have to grovel?
PDV has said the agent is the issue … maybe, but whatever it is, they both need to sort it out pronto because his talent is only one of a kind and we need it, specifically for World Cup in NZ, where the AB’s will be on fire to win; his talent is freakish and too big to throw away – the size of Dan Carter’s in fact.
30 Jun 2010, 16:25 pm
@J.B. Cowper(J.B. Cowper)-318: i agree with everything you say except the last line.
You cannot compare Carter to Steyn. If you compared FDP i would agree. For all the good Frans does, he does stupid things on the field as well. I think the media blows up the talent, freak, prodigy line up too much when it comes to Fransie.
That said, I would pick him as the best 15 we have at our disposal. I dont mind him not playing the TN. We will not lose because of him.
30 Jun 2010, 16:25 pm
@Heavens Game(Heavens Game)-316: What about Philip Schutte? And Deon Lotter. Or, tour wise, FA Meiring, Jannie Claasens, Lance Sherrell.
30 Jun 2010, 16:33 pm
@gecko(gecko)-317: We played Heinrich Rogers, Uli Schmidt and Lood Muller.
Johan Styger came off the bench against NZ and played a stormer.
30 Jun 2010, 16:37 pm
@willievz(willievz)-321: Willie – not on the 1992 Year End tour. Lood Muller wasn’t picked, and Uli didn’t tour. That is where Truscott/Roberts where the hookers, but didn’t play the tests.
30 Jun 2010, 16:42 pm
Eddie Jones is dead right. What are we doing to ourselves? This is delusional.
PDV is not up to the job of Head Coach. Period.
30 Jun 2010, 16:43 pm
@willievz(willievz)-321: Btw, Johan Styger a successful dentist in Surrey.
30 Jun 2010, 16:49 pm
#319. Moedeloos – That is my whole point – he has got the talent of Carter, just different but it hasn’t been fully harnessed or remotely developed. That’s the point.
At fly-half he is a DISASTER waiting to happen. That is where he has made his ****-ups.
At centre he’s pretty good – but it is such a limited niche position in relative terms to FH or FB or SH.
Francois Steyn burst onto the Springbok scene about 4-5 years ago in a December tour to northern hemisphere and played fullback for the whole tour. At fullback he had THE TIME TO MAKE HIS PLAY AND THAT IS WHY IT IS HIS BEST POSITION. He was ELECTRIC and the answer to our problems.
In typical Springbok management ****-around mentality it took several years, in fact until the Lions tour last year to get back into that position – while they experimented everywhere but the obvious.
But he is a born fullback – uncanny positional play and anticipation, like rock under the high ball, courageous, physical, can run beautiful lines and that MOTHER BOOT which is good for clearance of +50 metres a hit, not to mention the gravy – those drop goals. And he can do the one thing Percy and Andre and Ian Robertson couldn’t do and the first requirment of every fullback – he can TACKLE. His big-match temperament in test matches for long-distance kicking is immaculate – and he proved it to PDV in Auckland last year with 3/3 from north of halfway, in Auckland at sea level with a wet ball in a TEST MATCH against the All Blacks and because of that we won the game and the Tri-nations. Also you will recall that in the win in House of Pain the year before it was him, cool as ice, who converted the winning points in injury time.
And then genius drops him and the cocking around starts all over again … and we’re back to square one.
Once again – he is not as good as Carter (yet) and he’s a totally different type of player to him, obviously – but his POTENTIAL is freakish and he could be if he had a coach with vision to develop it … which we haven’t got, quite the contrary, and that is the point I am trying to make – IT IS NOT WHAT HE IS, WHICH IS AMAZING, BUT WHAT HE COULD BE …. and nobody else in the squad has got that type or level of potential.
30 Jun 2010, 16:51 pm
@J.B. Cowper(J.B. Cowper)-325: Actually, he played wing the first test, with Bevin Fortuin at fullback.
30 Jun 2010, 16:57 pm
@J.B. Cowper(J.B. Cowper)-325:
absolutely the post of the day….by a country ile….i echo those sentiments 100 %…..
well said young man!
30 Jun 2010, 16:57 pm
country mile
30 Jun 2010, 16:57 pm
@gecko(gecko)-322: Yes you are right. Didn’t Willie Hills play 2 the tests, with Keith Andrews the 3?
30 Jun 2010, 17:00 pm
@willievz(willievz)-329: Andrews only played against England. Styger & Rodgers against France, Styger & Andrews vs England.
30 Jun 2010, 17:01 pm
@gecko(gecko)-324: Why I didn’t google this in the first place I don’t know…
Test 177 – France vs. SA
Fra (0) 15 vs SA (13) 20, Lyon, 1992/10/17
France: tries Penaud (2); conv Penaud?; pen Penaud?.
South Africa: Tries Danie Gerber, James Small; conv Naas Botha (2); pen Botha; drop goal Botha.
SA team: Hugh Reece-Edwards, Jacques Olivier, Pieter Muller, Danie Gerber, James Small, Naas Botha (c), Garth Wright; Johan Styger, Willie Hills, Heinrich Rogers, Wahl Bartmann, Adri Geldenhuys, Adolf Malan, Adriaan Richter, Tiaan Strauss.
Test 178 – France vs. SA
Fra (6) 29 vs SA (6) 16, Paris, 1992/10/24
France: tries Roumat, Penaud; conv Lacroix (2); pen Lacroix (5).
South Africa: try Danie Gerber; conv Naas Botha; pen Botha (3).
SA team: Hugh Reece-Edwards, Jacques Olivier, Pieter Muller, Danie Gerber, James Small, Naas Botha (c), Garth Wright; Johan Styger, Willie Hills, Heinrich Rogers, Wahl Bartmann, Adri Geldenhuys, Adolf Malan, Adriaan Richter, Tiaan Strauss.
Test 179 – England vs. SA
Eng (11) 33 vs SA (16) 16, Twickenham, 1992/11/14
England: tries Underwood, Guscott, Morris, Carling; conv Webb (2); pen Webb (3).
South Africa: try Tiaan Strauss; conv Naas Botha; pen Botha (2); drop goal Botha.
SA team: Theo van Rensburg, Jacques Olivier, Pieter Muller, Danie Gerber, James Small, Naas Botha (c), Garth Wright; Johan Styger, Willie Hills, Keith Andrews, Tiaan Strauss, Drikus Hattingh, Adolf Malan, FC Smit, Adriaan Richter.
30 Jun 2010, 17:02 pm
@willievz(willievz)-331: Bit sad I know this in my head isn’t it.
30 Jun 2010, 17:02 pm
That FC Smit selection against England was also very random.
I remember the drop goal of Naas at Twickenham – poor ball from Wright, Naas dribbling back with his back facing the opposition, then kicking an extraordinary 3-pointer.
30 Jun 2010, 17:03 pm
@gecko(gecko)-332: You clearly live for the game
30 Jun 2010, 17:03 pm
@J.B. Cowper(J.B. Cowper)-325: good post. would be relevant if he thinks his best position is 15. he thinks he is a 12.
what do you do?
lets see how it unfolds. Like i said earlier. The truth will surface in the future. And hopefully we can be man-enough to admit if we backed the wrong horse.
30 Jun 2010, 17:05 pm
FC Smit/Brian Baenhoff – can’t think of one without the other.
30 Jun 2010, 17:08 pm
#327 and #330 Thanks Grant and Gecko (an interesting point but actually right wing is second best position) …
The other thing Steyn does at FB – if the other side kick for posts on penalty and miss, he gathers, and SPRINTS to the edge of the 25yd line and then hoofs the thing right back into their 25 – in the words of Tackler, my new found friend, the guy is like “a nuclear weapon” …
and hasn’t even made our top 28 … what a farce.
30 Jun 2010, 17:09 pm
Sorry – to follow #337 – and finds touch as well ….
30 Jun 2010, 17:09 pm
@gecko(gecko)-320: Nico Wegner from Maties…
30 Jun 2010, 17:11 pm
@J.B. Cowper(J.B. Cowper)-337: The guy needs rest. PLaying non-stop since Jan ’09. Best he has his break now, and come back EOYT or next year having had some rest. He had a deal with Snor to have a break and has to be back at Racing mid TN.
30 Jun 2010, 17:12 pm
@willievz(willievz)-339: I’m from WP, that selection was fine. haha
30 Jun 2010, 17:14 pm
#340 – Gecko – rest I can go with all the way – “dropped”, or even worse, “discarded” I can’t …
30 Jun 2010, 17:16 pm
@J.B. Cowper(J.B. Cowper)-342: No where Snor said he was dropped (he had a deal only to play Wales, then not again), or discarded. Or rested for that matter.
30 Jun 2010, 17:17 pm
I’m off. Summer in Wales, time for a post-work surf.
@Willie – die ander kant van die coin: players that should have had Bok colours: Ettienne Botha and Simon Berridge to name but two.
30 Jun 2010, 17:27 pm
@gecko(gecko)-343: interesting. why is there no media coverage if this was the case.
or did we all fall victim to the tripe and agendas of the so-called journos on this site? (sad face)
30 Jun 2010, 17:37 pm
@gecko(gecko)-344: Jeremy Thomson.
30 Jun 2010, 18:11 pm
Naas… what a legend!
30 Jun 2010, 18:17 pm
@willievz(willievz)-346: Toured with the Boks. Played mid-week games.
30 Jun 2010, 18:18 pm
@J.B. Cowper(J.B. Cowper)-325: Steyn is a good 15, but you have it wrong. 13 is where he could achieve greatness.
To be a fearless tackler is not the main pre-requisite of a FB, rather positional ability, calmness under pressure and ability to clear the ball. Ability to conter-attack in a flash is a characteristic of great fullbacks. I really believe Aplon has all of these attributes and he is no defensive slouch either.
12 is where Steyn can come into his own. Firstly he seems to prefer it there. He has good defensive skills. His big boot is a huge bonus and can take pressure off M Steyn. Look at the kicking armoury of 9, 10, 12 – FdP, MS, FS… farksake – those would be a siege gun or siege relieving combination – options abound.
His ability to make passes out of a tackle are really slightly freakish, however he did have a tendency to be selfish. As player who has played flyhalf he has good distribution skills (at least as good as any 12 in world rugby at the moment with the exception of Jauzion who is probably the benchmark 12 in World rugby at present).
He has good vision for taking the gap and does run decent lines. At 12 he has that split second of extra time that he does not have at 10 – which makes all the difference at elite level.
The real skill he has to develop is being aware in “D” – not just for himself but for the whole backline. He needs to be able to marshall the “D”. At the moment for the Boks, this role is taken by Mossie.
All in all to me he could be a bigger version of Tim Horan, with a slight tinge of Walter Little – however with a bigger boot. He is quite a similar player to Michael Du Plessis (who also could play 10) but with more ability…
He also is getting great exposure in a different Rugby Culture where he is learning some new tricks of the trade and a different way of playing the game. He also has played a WC final at 12.
All this before he has reached his mid 20′s….
30 Jun 2010, 18:19 pm
@gecko(gecko)-348: Craig Jamieson.
Pages: « 1 2 3 4 5 6 [7] 8 » Show All
Have your say
You must be logged in to post a comment.