‘I want to be the best’
6 Jul 2010
Dan Carter talks to SA Rugby magazine about his Super 14 struggles, why the All Blacks will pose a serious threat in the Tri-Nations, and his ideal halfback partner.
How’s that Achilles injury?
I’m over it. It was tough being out of the game for five-and-half months, but I believe everything happens for a reason and, in a way, it was good for me. The injury gave me a break from rugby, my first in seven years.
Why did you leave for Perpignan when you were playing so well in New Zealand?
I felt like I would get stale if I played another season for the Crusaders and All Blacks. It’s not good to say, but I needed a fresh challenge. In 2008, Perpignan gave me an opportunity to experience something new and I took the chance to get out of my comfort zone.
Considering you suffered the injury in France, do you regret the move?
Injuries can happen anywhere and at any time. I could’ve torn my Achilles tendon playing for the Crusaders, so no, I don’t regret it. I still enjoyed my stay at Perpignan while I was off the field. The French have a great culture and lifestyle, so it was a good decision.
Has the limelight off the field been a big distraction for you?
At first it was, but it’s my eighth season as a professional so it doesn’t now. I make sure what happens off the field, stays off the field. I want people to take me as a rugby player first and everything else comes second.
How does the European Cup compare to Super Rugby?
It’s tough to judge. The Super 14 is exciting for the spectators with all the tries, but there are so many rivalries in Europe, especially when the European Cup gets to the semi-final stage. The teams play with so much passion, it’s a fantastic competition.
Were you disappointed with your form in this year’s Super 14?
The media criticised me but it was a challenge slotting into a backline where the average age is 23. I was happy with my progress in the earlier rounds but things regressed after the bye [in round seven]. I picked up a hip injury, so that was frustrating as I struggled to regain my form. I’ll play much better as the season goes on.
Many pundits feel your goal-kicking percentage slump is the biggest concern.
It’s something I’m working on and I want to be the best. By striving to be the best goal-kicker, you will get the reward at some stage. Things will get better.
All Blacks coach Graham Henry came out in support of you by saying you are still his first- choice flyhalf. Does that take any pressure off you?
It does a little, but I enjoy having competition for the No 10 jersey. It motivates me. I never take my place in the team for granted and will keep doing the hard work on the field.
There’s a perception that after you, there are no quality New Zealand flyhalves. What’s your take on that?
I disagree. I think Stephen Donald established himself at flyhalf when I was in France and he deserved a place in the team. Although he did suffer a decline in form towards the end of the Super 14, he showed his true potential in the earlier rounds. The future looks good for New Zealand rugby with Stephen Brett [Blues] and Aaron Cruden [Hurricanes] also coming through the ranks.
Who’s your ideal halfback partner at Test level?
I’ve formed a good combination with Jimmy Cowan. He’s a physical type of player and he provides great service. I’ve also formed a good combination with Andy Ellis at the Crusaders. But there’s a lot of competition for the All Blacks No 9 jersey with Brendon Leonard and Piri Weepu on the scene.
Who’s your ideal All Blacks centre pair?
I think Luke McAlister and Ma’a Nonu. The inside centre has to have a good boot and distribution skills but must also be a great ball-carrier. I think Luke fits in well as he’s a big guy and has the skills. Ma’a has good vision and is a major threat with ball in hand.
Do you think the form of New Zealand’s Super 14 teams will have a bearing on the All Blacks?
The New Zealand franchises did have a disappointing Super 14 but I don’t think you can link that to the All Blacks. When you put on that black jersey, it’s something special. You feel like a player on a whole different level. I’m confident the All Blacks will come good this season.
Who do you feel is the best flyhalf in the world on current form?
Matt Giteau. He played extremely well last season and he’s continuing that form at the Brumbies. He’s one talented footballer. Morné Steyn is also one to look out for this season.
What did you think of Steyn’s emergence in the Springbok team last year?
He did very well considering it was his debut season and he made some vital kicks in the Lions tour and Tri-Nations. He leads the team with his boot, but he also showed in the Super 14 that he’s more than just a kicker.
What about Ruan Pienaar at flyhalf?
That’s a tough one. He’s such a natural footballer in any position, whether it’s scrumhalf, flyhalf or fullback. But he could make a great flyhalf. He has the skills, the running game and the boot.
Do you think Butch James could still make an impact for the Boks?
I haven’t seen that much of him recently. But if he’s still that fierce competitor he was when he was at the Sharks, then he can. I remember we were always worried about his physicality before every game.
The Boks won all three Tests against the All Blacks in last year’s Tri-Nations. Did that break the All Blacks’ psychological hold over the Springboks?
The Boks always had challenging times against the All Blacks in the past, so going down 3-0 was tough for us. I guess they can take some confidence out of that, but we weren’t playing well as a team and we had a lot of injuries. We will learn from last season’s mistakes and come out stronger this year.
What’s your take on the new law interpretations?
They’ve helped a great deal with the flow of the game and have made rugby a better spectacle with all the tries. The attacking teams now have some benefits with ball in hand which wasn’t the case last year.
Have the South Africans overtaken the Kiwi teams in terms of attacking flair?
The Australian teams and some of the South African sides adjusted fantastically well during the Super 14. The Kiwi teams were admittedly slow in adapting but I’m sure the All Blacks will thrive under the new law interpretations.
Last year, the Boks played a conservative, yet effective, kick-chase game. How do you think they will play this season?
They did kick a lot last season. But with defence triumphing attack last year, no one wanted to play in their own half and kicked for territory. With the new law interpretations, I think the Boks, like most teams, will keep more ball in hand and kick less.
What did you think of the rotation of the All Blacks coaching duties?
The first change worked very well [when Henry took the forwards and forwards coach Steve Hansen moved to the backline attack]. They’ve reverted to their original positions now, but we will still benefit from it. The coaches work so closely together and they all have input, so it doesn’t really matter who’s in charge of what.
How do you feel about Argentina forming part of the Tri-Nations in 2012?
It’s a great way to freshen up the tournament. Argentina have played very well at Test level and their third-place finish at the last World Cup proves they are a quality side. If they can get their players back from Europe, they will be able to field a great team. Their inclusion will also help make their rugby stronger.
Do you think travelling to South America will be an issue?
Some people are arguing that, but I don’t think it should be. Travelling to other countries is part of the game. I’m sure Sanzar will come up with a suitable solution.
How do you rate the All Blacks’ chances at next year’s World Cup?
We are definitely backing ourselves. We have the team foundation set, we just need to continue building a complete squad. Playing at home will be a big advantage for us, but we have to be consistent. One bad game and you’re out. But from a neutral perspective, I believe it will be a great rugby event.
Will the New Zealand public’s expectation have an effect on the team?
There’s always pressure when it comes to the All Blacks. I guess there will be bigger expectations as we will be in our own backyard. But we can handle it. The players don’t get affected by outside factors.
What do you make of Carl Hayman’s decision not to return to New Zealand for the World Cup?
We would’ve liked to have had him back because he’s a quality tighthead prop. But he obviously had his reasons for staying in Europe and we have to respect that.
Do you think there will be another player exodus to Europe after the World Cup?
There could be. There are guys who will be coming to the end of their careers after the World Cup and some players will want a new challenge. We just have to wait and see how big the demand will be.
Can New Zealand rugby survive another exodus of players?
I’m sure we can. There’s a lot of young talent coming through our Super 14 teams’ ranks. By then, many of the younger players, like Cruden, would have experienced two seasons of Super Rugby, so there will be plenty of depth.
What are your plans for after the World Cup?
I’d love to play my rugby here in New Zealand but it all depends on whether I’m still enjoying it. I had a great time in France and wouldn’t mind going back there. But I will keep my options open for now.
By Gareth Duncan
– This article first appeared in the July issue of SA Rugby magazine.
181 Comments
6 Jul 2010, 12:22 pm
Carter Dragon
6 Jul 2010, 12:23 pm
Beale fined for ‘urinating’
2010-07-06 07:47
Brisbane – Wallabies back Kurtley Beale has been fined A$5 000 ($4 200) by the Australian Rugby Union for urinating outside a Brisbane nightclub.
Beale said in a statement Tuesday he had drunk too much alcohol before the incident which happened after Australia’s Test win over Ireland on June 26.
He apologised to those people he had “let down.”
Australian Rugby Union high performance manager David Nucifora said Beale remained in line for selection in the Wallabies squad for this month’s Tri-Nations series. Nucifora said such behaviour could not be excused.
6 Jul 2010, 12:41 pm
Carter better jack it up, because he’s been riding on his reputation for years. Not the player he used to be in 2005 and 2006.
6 Jul 2010, 12:43 pm
Always thought he could have been an even better 12 than a 10.
6 Jul 2010, 12:51 pm
You WAS the best Dan, for a few years, but who knows now?
He is a great athlete, great sportsman and one of the very few ABs that I like
6 Jul 2010, 12:53 pm
@willievz(willievz)-4: Stupid thing to say. He’s the worlds no1 flyhalf, and the benchmark for any no10, wanting to improve their game. Its like saying:”Perhaps Schalk Burger should play on the wing…. he’s strong enough…” Idiot!
6 Jul 2010, 12:57 pm
Morne Steyn is the best flyhalf in the world at present!!
There I said it!!
So now that I got that out of the way let’s see what Tacitus’ first post will be.
6 Jul 2010, 13:03 pm
@UnbeataBULL(UnbeataBULL)-6: You obviously never saw him play as a 12. But you obviously did not read my post – I said he could have been ‘even better’ as a 12, even though he is (IMO) the world’s best 10.
I would like to think that am entitled to my opinion without verbal abuse from people hiding behind nics like you?
What have I ever done to you?
To call someone stupid and an idiot on a public blog like this is very unprofessional and is a reflection of your character.
6 Jul 2010, 13:05 pm
@wpw(wpw)-7: Morne has the best form at the mo, but what makes a flyhalf the BEST? That is questionable. I would still have Carter in SH team, with Morne as his understudy.
6 Jul 2010, 13:08 pm
@willievz(willievz)-8: Dont post stupid *****, then I wont call you an idiot. Problem solved. You are entitled to your opinion, but so am I, and I am of the opinion that you’re an idiot!
6 Jul 2010, 13:12 pm
@UnbeataBULL(UnbeataBULL)-10: Eish, lyk my jou ma het jou met ‘n stukkie suurdeeg uit ‘n drein gelok.
But I guess arguing with you will just lead into a cul-de-sac.
6 Jul 2010, 13:12 pm
“All Blacks coach Graham Henry came out in support of you by saying you are still his first- choice flyhalf. Does that take any pressure off you?”
and the very next question……..
“There’s a perception that after you, there are no quality New Zealand flyhalves. What’s your take on that?”
Gareth, you should have asked them the other way around mate!
6 Jul 2010, 13:17 pm
Just love these back-to-back questions:-
Have the South Africans overtaken the Kiwi teams in terms of attacking flair?
Last year, the Boks played a conservative, yet effective, kick-chase game. How do you think they will play this season?
6 Jul 2010, 13:22 pm
@willievz(willievz)-11: En dan ‘n “yo mamma” reply…. Red nou ‘n nasie……
A wize man once said…never mind. I’m not going to explain it three times.
Lets get back to the topic. I can, however not understand how he rates MG over MS. MG is not even the best 10 in OZ..
6 Jul 2010, 13:23 pm
“”There’s a perception that after you, there are no quality New Zealand flyhalves. What’s your take on that?
I disagree. I think Stephen Donald established himself at flyhalf when I was in France and he deserved a place in the team.”"
Yeah Right Danny Boy……………………..Up the that point is was a half decent interview.
6 Jul 2010, 13:24 pm
@willievz(willievz)-11: Eish – n brandbal daar met die suurdeeg storie.
@UnbeataBULL(UnbeataBULL)-10: Kom aan ouens -speel lekker saam.
Ons is almal Bokke ondersteuners die week
6 Jul 2010, 13:29 pm
When on form,he has no equal in 10 position.Showed glimpses in Test vs Wales.his double try tally was phenominal.Has the complete skills set..
But with Ricky on his *** on Sat & Carter not in top top form with an AB pack still a little green in combinations…might be a different story
6 Jul 2010, 13:35 pm
Dan and Johnny will define this generation of 10’s – the same is not true of Mat or Morné.
6 Jul 2010, 13:37 pm
@Black Panther(Black Panther)-13:
Yeah but BP even you have to admit the efficiency of the NZ S14 teams with new interpretations that promote that attacking multi-phase flair play-they have been below avg.
I think NZ at present doesnt have quality loosies which is affecting continuity at breakdown.The likes of Messam,Latimer,Bourke,Waldrom,Soakai,L.Braid,Whitelock etc while having lots of potential didnt cover themselves in glory.
Only NZ loosies that played great rugby are Victor Vito & to lesser extent Kaino in S14.McCaw was ok,his blindside expirement was not well thought out….
6 Jul 2010, 13:50 pm
@willievz(willievz)-4: You know, I’ve posted on this very issue on this blog before and i happen to agree with you wholehartedly. With and extra second or so to make decisions and his great vision and running game NZ may have been that extra 1 – 2% better with him there and someone like say, Luke McAlister at 10.
I’m glad I’m not the only one with that opinion.
6 Jul 2010, 14:01 pm
@THEBokFan(bokfan1)-16: **** ****. This weekend will give us a clear indication as to what still needs to be done in terms of WC11 preparation. Go die Bokke!
6 Jul 2010, 14:09 pm
@willievz(willievz)-4: #4 Spot on. Carter is more of a natural 12 than 10, in the way that Michael du Plessis was. Having said that, he has been one of the best flyhalves of the decade, but his glory days are clearly behind him. Teams that are able to pressurise him can shut him down. Without a world class scrumhalf along side him his job is harder still.
6 Jul 2010, 14:16 pm
@mshiniwami(mshiniwami)-19:
Perhaps. But somehow justifying “attacking flair” and “kick and chase” do not appear as obvious bedfellows.
6 Jul 2010, 14:18 pm
@stormersboy(stormersboy)-20: He was superlative next to Spencer when NZ played the latter at 10. Pity that the combination never developed, mainly because Carlos was in the twilight of his international career.
Carter at 12 was particularly good at deciding which offensive ball to distribute wide or to pass inside to a supporting loose forward. Decision-making needs to be more abrupt at 12 than 10, and Carter excelled in that regard.
Because of this time constraint on attack, the player that can make offensive decisions in the least amount of time will be of more use to a team when he plays 12 rather than 10.
Of course there are facets of offensive play that differ substanitally from 10 to 12, especially when attacking the gain line. However, that improves with experience in playing in a certain position under a specific gameplan.
I expect that Carter will play 12 when he reaches retirement age, guiding the young first 5/8 on his inside.
6 Jul 2010, 14:36 pm
@willievz(willievz)-24: Yip. Agree with you on all counts. Many people forget that it was 12 where he made his all black debut…
6 Jul 2010, 14:39 pm
@Kerneels(Kerneels)-18:
Wilkinson was good in 2001 and 2002k, but very shaky throughout 2003, that’s it. Nothing since then, how does that define a generation? Carter was good in 2005 and 2006, but nothing since then. Defining a generation is what Du Preez and Matfield have done, many years as the best in the world, kind of like Larkham. That’s defining a generation, not one or two season wonders. But it’s common for people to over emphasise Wilkinson and Carter because of their reputation built up from very little. Wilkinson in particular never was anything special to begin with. Carter WAS something special, but that was so long ago it should be a blurb amongst bigger topics. Morne, so far, is the premier 10 in the world, not based on reputation, but performances. You have no argument against discernable fact.
6 Jul 2010, 14:48 pm
@Alucard(Alucard)-26: yep, ‘defining a generation’ is laying it on a bit thick. must say though i’d jump at the opportunity to have either of those 2 in my team
6 Jul 2010, 14:51 pm
Don’t know who I would start in my team between Larkham, Carter or Wilkinson at their best.
Probably Carter.
6 Jul 2010, 15:02 pm
@willievz(willievz)-28: nice headache to have as a coach
6 Jul 2010, 15:06 pm
@willievz(willievz)-28:
Yip ,Wilko can kick and Larkham can get the backline away, Carter seems to have nailed both
6 Jul 2010, 15:06 pm
would anyone want to venture a guess as to why we dont produce flyhalves in the gerald bosch mould anymore?
6 Jul 2010, 15:07 pm
@mamma_lou(mamma_lou)-29: Imagine that!!
Scary thing is, there would be place for all 3.
Wilko at 10, Carter at 12 and Larkham at 15.
6 Jul 2010, 15:08 pm
@willievz(willievz)-28: Wilkinson – strong, good distributor, good kicker, good defender, very strong mentally.
6 Jul 2010, 15:09 pm
@mamma_lou(mamma_lou)-31: I would say one-dimensional coaching by school coaches is the primary reason.
Having said that, there are quite a number of youngsters with potential coming through…
6 Jul 2010, 15:10 pm
@stormer in a teacup(stormer in a teacup)-33: Fair and persuasive comment there…
6 Jul 2010, 15:12 pm
@Alucard(Alucard)-26: “Defining a generation is what Du Preez and Matfield have done, many years as the best in the world” – good stuff. Sort of makes a mockery of the IRB “Player of the Year” Award. Both have never been Players of the Year according to the IRB… Now thats a laugh – Shane Williams anyone? Reechie “Suarez” McCaw, anyone? (Not to mention he was given the award in the same year Brussouw made him his biyatch !)
6 Jul 2010, 15:12 pm
@UnbeataBULL(UnbeataBULL)-21: Watse vloek woorde was daai? Skryf hulle weer met punte of spasies tussen die letters
6 Jul 2010, 15:13 pm
@Alucard(Alucard)-26:
Hold it mate…Matfield yes but premature on Du Preez
Du Preez wasnt even starting 9 for Boks in 2004-Conradie was mainly
in 2005-Rise of Januarie & rush defence.Du preez also shared time with Ricky then,wasnt best in world
2006-was an abomination of a yr for all,plus Du Preez shared time with Januarie that yr as well
2007-His first yr as the world’s best 9,was amazing in WC
2008-Didnt have a good yr,struggled with ELV’s-not impressive at all.Januarie played better in 3N than he did.
2009-Had his second outstanding yr
So by all accounts,he has been good in 2007,2009-So how does that define his greatness/of a generation etc???
Matfield is another case altogether.He has been the best lineout exponent since around 2003.Since about 2005 he has had no peer as a 5 lock in lineout/kickoff play.Closest competitor is perenially injured Ali Williams.
6 Jul 2010, 15:13 pm
@willievz(willievz)-32: they could swap roles in game like having jonny at 10 on defense and larkham on attack
6 Jul 2010, 15:18 pm
@Heavens Game(Heavens Game)-36: agreement there. when we heard richie won it last year the place went quiet and then we started laughing. for my money fdp was mvp at w/c 2007 too
6 Jul 2010, 15:19 pm
@willievz(willievz)-32: I’d go with Larkham as he has something extra on attack that the others haven’t got. But then you’d have to have a young Mortlock on wing to do the kicking duties or someone like Neil Jenkins. Or, of course Carter at 12..
6 Jul 2010, 15:22 pm
@mshiniwami(mshiniwami)-38: sacrilege!!!!! How can you doubt the dominance of a “pure genius”, the best rugby player on the planet??!!!!
6 Jul 2010, 15:29 pm
Gareth Duncan. Was the interview done via telephone?
6 Jul 2010, 15:31 pm
@willievz(willievz)-24: I’m afraid I’m also of the opinion that you’re being dof. Even if he could have been a better 12, I’d rather have the best player in the world playing 10 as it is a much more valuable position. Spencer nowhere near Carter.
6 Jul 2010, 15:31 pm
centre combination has to be walter little and frank bunce
6 Jul 2010, 15:32 pm
@stormersboy(stormersboy)-41:
Just put Burke at 15.
@Transformation(Transformation)-42:
Iqiniso!!!
Next this we’ll hear is Spies is the best 8 of the generation blah blah blah
6 Jul 2010, 15:34 pm
@mamma_lou(mamma_lou)-45: Tim Horan and Bunce!
6 Jul 2010, 15:34 pm
@Ratel Brussow(Morne Steyn is under-rated)-44: At least you do it with greater style
I agree that Carter owns Spencer, but as a combination they were potent.
I try to look at what a player can value a specific team given a specific gameplan. Others tend to pick the players first and then decide on a gameplan accommodating the strengths of the individuals.
6 Jul 2010, 15:34 pm
@mamma_lou(mamma_lou)-45:
-Tough decision between Bunce and Horan
-As a patnership Little/Horan were the sh*t as well.
But Bunce and Horan were freaks.Broke the line AT WILL.
Bunce was an ALL BLACK at 34/5….Freak
6 Jul 2010, 15:35 pm
@Alucard(Alucard)-26: @mshiniwami(mshiniwami)-38: Wilkinson was the best flyhalf of the noughties. Besides the obvious, that he has a WC to his name and Carter doesn’t, he has the ability to drop goals, something that Carter has mostly not done. Carter was probably the better running flyhalf.
6 Jul 2010, 15:36 pm
@Ratel Brussow(Morne Steyn is under-rated)-50: Wilkinson did have a stronger pack which aided his decision-making.
It is a very close call between the two.
6 Jul 2010, 15:37 pm
@Ratel Brussow(Morne Steyn is under-rated)-44: saw spencer under pressure once catch the ball with his back to the goal line. he kicked the ball over his right shoulder into the hands of the wing who dotted down. not many people can do that
6 Jul 2010, 15:39 pm
@willievz(willievz)-48: Spencer played too loose for test rugby and lost NZ the home match vs England and hence probably the WC. The most important position in the backline imo is 10 (certainly more so than 12), so why make the worlds best 10 into the worlds best 12? That’s dof.
6 Jul 2010, 15:43 pm
@mamma_lou(mamma_lou)-52: Sure, he had the razzle-dazzle, best S12 10 of all time, but at test level, in the close situations he didn’t have the steadying influence. Also his goal kicking sucked, which is a prerequisite in this league, if it weren’t Larkham would be the best 10 of the 00s, he at least did dropkick his side to victory in a WC!!!!
6 Jul 2010, 15:44 pm
@willievz(willievz)-48:
Carter & Spencer as a combo was few and far inbetween.
Carter became an AB in 2002,he was a 12 and Merthens was at 10 that yr.Mauger also shared 12 duty
in 2003-Spencer started at 10 with Mauger at 12,Mauger got injured,Carter played a few games at 12.But Mauger was incumbent 12 at WC & 3N
in 2004-Spencer played some games at 10 along with Carter at 12 where they were abysmal,then Merthens played 10.
That was last of Spencer as an AB in 2004
So not too sure about Spencer/Carter observation as great combo.dont think they played more than 10 games together
6 Jul 2010, 15:45 pm
@mshiniwami(mshiniwami)-49: yeah the other 2 was brilliant 2, but i prefer little/bunce.
6 Jul 2010, 15:47 pm
@mamma_lou(mamma_lou)-52:
Yeah saw that,He was playing for Northampton
He had the most amazing skillset in the game,could do things no one can or will ever do.
But that was also the problem.
Test rugby is how great players are judged.
And test rugby is not for PARTY-TRICKS
6 Jul 2010, 15:49 pm
@mshiniwami(mshiniwami)-49:
Horan was a Rugby God, perhaps the best 12 ever.
But I simply didnt rate J.Little much higher than ‘good’.
Hard to go past a combo of Bunce and Little let alone B.Osborne and BJ.Robertson.
6 Jul 2010, 15:51 pm
@Ratel Brussow(Morne Steyn is under-rated)-54: its always a tradeoff.
6 Jul 2010, 15:52 pm
@Ratel Brussow(Morne Steyn is under-rated)-54:
Larkham was the best 10 of his generation IMHO.Had everything bar kicking for posts.Plus his flat-line/attacking adv. line playing style revolutionalised the game.No one had done it perfection before.He mastered it.Best passer of the ball by a COUNTRY MILE
He didnt have to kick for posts.Burke was a 85% goal kicker at 15.
6 Jul 2010, 15:57 pm
@Black Panther(Black Panther)-58:
Horan is still the benchmark.agreed.
Bunce-physically the most dominating centre(13) ever.
Saw Little/Bunce..as a patnership they are hard to beat.
Never saw Osborne/Robertson…Either I wasnt born yet or black folk hadnt “managed to get exposure” to such priveleges…
6 Jul 2010, 15:59 pm
@Ratel Brussow(Morne Steyn is under-rated)-53: Many people will disagree with you regarding the importance of the 12 vis-a-vis the 10, especially because you have less time to make offensive decisions at 12.
The 12 is also arguably more important on defense, especially at the breakdown when he is often the first supporting player on first phase defense. Sure, Carter might have struggled here.
However, one can argue that on offense, it makes more sense to play your best decision-maker at 12 rather than 10 since he would less time to make decisions. You don’t want to leave quick decisions at 12 to a player with less vision and anticipation.
NZ rugby is suffering despite them having one of the best attacking 10s in the world. IMO it is partly because their incumbent 12s cannot make great decisions when put under pressure by probing defensive lines. Their attacking ball loses significant pace when it reaches the outside backs.
6 Jul 2010, 16:00 pm
@mshiniwami(mshiniwami)-55: True, it is a pity they could not play together more.
6 Jul 2010, 16:12 pm
@willievz(willievz)-62: So you are saying 12 is more important than 10?
6 Jul 2010, 16:15 pm
@Ratel Brussow(Morne Steyn is under-rated)-64: Depends on the gameplan. As a combination, the 10 and 12 is extremely important.
6 Jul 2010, 16:15 pm
@willievz(willievz)-62: i disagree. 10 is the decision maker hence the move of carter from 12 to 10 and similar allthough unsuccessful move for guitea
6 Jul 2010, 16:16 pm
@mamma_lou(mamma_lou)-40: Yeah, Reechie “Suarez” McCaw is a bit of a laugh when it comes to talking about revenge
6 Jul 2010, 16:24 pm
@mamma_lou(mamma_lou)-31:
Thank god for that.
6 Jul 2010, 16:25 pm
@mamma_lou(mamma_lou)-66: If you employ a kick-chase gameplan a-la the Boks in 2009, yes your 10 has a greater role in decision making.
But a great decision making 10 helps absolutely zilch if your 12 does not have creative acumen. The decisions of the 10 are usually limited to kicking or passing, while the 12 (also needing to make these decisions) need to collide with defense more often to allow a free flowing phase.
Defensively, the 12 also carries a higher burden.
6 Jul 2010, 16:37 pm
@willievz(willievz)-69: the first receiver is in the best position to make decisions and therefore needs to have a good skillset to execute them
6 Jul 2010, 16:42 pm
@mshiniwami(mshiniwami)-38:
Du Preez was the premier Bok 9 since 2004. Conradie was good in 2004 and 2005, and Januarie had his moments, but Du Preez was the best in SA, and always a key figure in the Bok team since Jake took over, but it was only in 2007 that many of his critics took note of his abilities. These were the sheep that follow whatever common opinion is held amongst the lower end of spectrum. The same people who wanted Juan out of the team. It took a WC trophy to open their eyes, but Du Preez was peerless as far back as 2004, no other Bok 9 has replicated those performances. take the near loss to NZ in 04, it’s classic Du Preez.
6 Jul 2010, 16:44 pm
@mamma_lou(mamma_lou)-70: I agree there. However, the point I want to highlight is that the 10 does not necessarily make the most important decision on attack. The 12 has a lot less time to make decisions and depending on the field position and number of phase, more decisions.
Also, whether or not the 10 will actually make the most important decisions depend on the quality of players around him and the specific gameplan as I mentioned.
For instance, when FDP is fit, he is the primary decision-maker of both the Bulls and the Boks.
6 Jul 2010, 16:54 pm
@willievz(willievz)-72:
That’s the whole point, isn’t it? The role of 10, 12 and 13, is entirely dependent on the individual skills of those players and the combinations. Carter is always a threat because he can break the line at any point, whilst Wilko wasn’t. BOD, who started out at 12, does a similar job at 13, by providing space for his 12 through his running lines off the ball, that constantly need to monitored.
6 Jul 2010, 16:55 pm
Agreed, the 10-12 combination is very important. Your 10 and 12 with the 13 is where your attacks happen. And that’s what New Zealand have prided themselves on, quality centres with great decision making fly halves. The best 10-12 combination for Nz in the 2000′s has to be Carter-Mauger. It’s no coincidence that Carter’s fall was coupled with the disbanding of this duo. A mistake that I feel really dented NZ’s WC hopes in 07. In 05 and 06 they were lethal to the point of savagery.
WILLIEVZ, that isn’t totally wrong, but the 10 calls the shots outright, the whole complexion of your game hinges on his decisions, the rest are subordinate in that they merely carry out his plan. Whilst Carter has fallen off the wagon, he still has great decision making, and this was the saving grace for the ABs last year, against Wales and australia, his decision making snuffed out the opposition. A great example of what I’m taking about.
About McCaw, Brussow has been notching up better stats in Super rugby for several consecutive years and totally dominated McCaw in every way last year, in fact, Brussow dominated every opponent he faced. Even in the French test where he had no support, made his present strongly felt. How McCaw got the POTY award is a total farce. I also loved how JPP bitched Williams up on the EOYT 08. Put him on his *** several times and literally ripped the ball off him other times. I can’t recall a wing match-up being so one-sided in all my life, LOL. The award doesn’t mean anything to me anymore and has no credibility at all.
6 Jul 2010, 16:55 pm
agreed about 9. but i think 10 makes strategic decisions eg. he decides what team does, gary owen, field position, run etc. 12 then makes decisions based on the initial decisiom by 10. on defence his decisions will be based on the people around him in the context of the system the team employs.
6 Jul 2010, 16:58 pm
@Alucard(Alucard)-74: agreed
6 Jul 2010, 17:01 pm
@Alucard(Alucard)-74: Brussow was my player of 2009.
We are going to miss his influence.
6 Jul 2010, 17:05 pm
Bullshyte, don’t need a good 12 to win a game, Bulls are an excellent example of that.
6 Jul 2010, 17:06 pm
@willievz(willievz)-69: When last did the Boks have a “creative” 12…? And please don’t say JdV…
6 Jul 2010, 17:26 pm
@Heavens Game(Heavens Game)-79:
That would be Frans. He was a breath of fresh air and offer far more than intercepts. We really need him back there, it is hands down his best position and offers so much balance to the Boks. Every team that has a great 10-12 kicking combination has been dominant, and couple that with his unparalled ability to breach the gainline and do the unexpected, he is a missing link in this Bok squad. Many made rave reviews about de Jongh, but he has looked rather devoid of ideas on attack and is not nearly as solid defensively as Frans, Jean or Olivier, so I’m not happy that he has the inside lane to the 12 jersey. If de Villiers is serious about retaining the WC title, then he needs to humble his stupid pride and get our best players in their best positions, how Joe Petersen and Mapoe slipped through the net truly beggars belief! and de Jongh only qualifies as a reserve 13. It’s all messed up, and just over a year before the World Cup!!
6 Jul 2010, 17:29 pm
@willievz(willievz)-77:
True, but we have the depth on the loose forwards to field a highly formidable combination, so I don’t feel overly concerned. What does concern me is that he may have fallen out of WC selection because of this injury. de Villiers only selected him because he was under pressure to do so, and even then tried several times to replace him with Roussouw.
6 Jul 2010, 18:00 pm
News 24 reckons that, according to the practice lineup, Olivier will start at 12, with Jean on the wing and Kirchener at 15.
6 Jul 2010, 18:02 pm
@Heavens Game(Heavens Game)-79: Probably Hennie Le Roux.
6 Jul 2010, 18:06 pm
@willievz(willievz)-83:
That’s true, but Adi also played there recently.
6 Jul 2010, 18:21 pm
1997 tri-nations Test at Eden Park on now on ESPNClassic channel 231, henry honiball playing 12…
9. Joost
10. De Beer
12. Honiball
13. Montgomery
6 Jul 2010, 18:22 pm
@David(David)-84: I guess another question would be whether or not a creative 12 would suit the SA strengths…
SA backlines are simply not used to creative 12s on attack, hence the one-dimensional (and sometimes highly effective strategy considering limited time to make decisions) of crashballing the offensive ball up.
6 Jul 2010, 18:30 pm
@Alucard(Alucard)-80: Interesting and valid perspective on Frans Steyn in many ways. Am not so sure about the pigenholing of JdJ. On the contrary I believe at the moment (F Steyn, notwithstanding) that he is the best centre partner for Mossie – to me they have a definite yin and yang (forgive the esoteric moffie description) similar to Du Plessis and Gerber.
@willievz(willievz)-83: Good example… Like JdJ is a good 12 and not 13, Le Roux was a very good 12 and not a 10. Not to say that either are bad in their initial positions. But sometimes in rugger, as in life, you do find yourself in a position where you perform better than in another position that you prefer (Hope that makes sense – far too friggin philosophical).
6 Jul 2010, 18:34 pm
@Transformation(Transformation)-85: Looking at your comment got me thinking:
Post ’95 “MVP” Bok backline:
9 FdP
10 Lem
11 Habanero
12 Hennie Le Roux
13 Mossie
14 Small
15 Rolls Royce
Blow me down if anyone says that is a ***** backline…
6 Jul 2010, 18:39 pm
@Heavens Game(Heavens Game)-88: So I cant say sh.yte – now since when is shy.te an offensive word…
6 Jul 2010, 18:39 pm
joost was to good to leave out
love or hate him@Heavens Game(Heavens Game)-88:
6 Jul 2010, 18:43 pm
@sharks_lover(sharks_lover)-90: Close but have to go with FdP, personal taste as a “coach” of this backline – nobody snorts tik on my watch
6 Jul 2010, 18:46 pm
@Heavens Game(Heavens Game)-91: The closer I look at that team the more I realise how M Steyn would come very close to usurping Lem (Heresy, but there you have it…)
6 Jul 2010, 18:49 pm
@Heavens Game(Heavens Game)-92: And despite Chester’s heroics, Habanero is my no 1. at 11. Another close call is Small and JPP – but this backline needs one nutter…
6 Jul 2010, 18:58 pm
put Paulse at 14.way better than Small,plus most capped winger in SA history,3rd highest try scorer in Bok history.At his peak there was no better balanced runner in SA & later was cornerstone of outside in/umbrella defense.
6 Jul 2010, 19:05 pm
@Heavens Game(Heavens Game)-91: hahhaha @ nobody snorts tik on my watch…you’re crazy hg
6 Jul 2010, 19:07 pm
@mshiniwami(mshiniwami)-94: He’s too “small”…
6 Jul 2010, 19:09 pm
@willievz(willievz)-86:
I suppose it’s a matter to adapting to the available players. As Carter said, a Luke Nonu combo would be his choice, but in Lukes absence the ABs resorted to crashball 12. It’s not as if the Boks have never had creative centres, think Whip, du Plessis and le Roux, it’s just we haven’t produced one in recent years. Since Jake, we now look at 12 as a defensive stop and crashball on attack. I think that PdeV is trying to change that, but he needs the players.
6 Jul 2010, 19:09 pm
small was 5 times the player paulse was
6 Jul 2010, 19:12 pm
@Heavens Game(Heavens Game)-88:
I see that the best 15 in the world today, is not included.
6 Jul 2010, 19:12 pm
@mshiniwami(mshiniwami)-94: And what other winger can say they made Lomu their biyatch! I honestly think Lomu had this slight fear of Small… You know that feeling when you meet a sociopath for the 1st time – pretty much like when you meet any garden variety hooker (rugby). James Small – a hooker’s psyche trapped in the Wing position…
6 Jul 2010, 19:13 pm
@David(David)-99: Kearney, unfortunately is not a Saffer, but I still would go with Juba, nevertheless
6 Jul 2010, 19:14 pm
Chesters support play and work rate was amazing. By far the most intelligent wing we’ve had in a long time.
6 Jul 2010, 19:18 pm
good luck for 2night Holland!!! … mr jan van riebeeck must be smiling from the heaven …. cape town owes you guys one
6 Jul 2010, 19:21 pm
@David(David)-102: Chester is a legend, no doubt, but even legends struggle to make the grade for this backline….
6 Jul 2010, 19:23 pm
@Heavens Game(Heavens Game)-100:
Michael du Plessis was a bit like that. He used to scream at a player he was attacking, on both attack and defence.
6 Jul 2010, 19:26 pm
My loosie trio post 95:
Simple choice:
Teich, Ruben, Venter
Locks:
Simple choice:
Matfield, Bakkies
Front Row:
Os, Barney, Balie (Now that should have some disagreement, the others are straightforward)
6 Jul 2010, 19:30 pm
@David(David)-105: lol, he was honestly mad, by all accounts, that bugger – but with Gerber – yin and yang!
Talking about Gerber, there is no side past or present, Bok or not, that would not make room for him at 13… full stop.
6 Jul 2010, 19:33 pm
All time Boks :
Joubert
Carel Dup
Danie G
Manietjies Roux
Ray Mordt
Naas
Joost
Wynand C
Kruger
Venter
Matfield
Bakkies/Andrews
Os
Uli
Balie
6 Jul 2010, 19:34 pm
oops forgot about oom Frik
6 Jul 2010, 19:35 pm
@Heavens Game(Heavens Game)-107:
A friend of mine was his lecturer at Tygerberg Dental School. He reckoned that he was under enormous pressure to pass Michael so that he would stay at Maties, even though he was as thick as a plank academically. Hans just hoped he’d never go into private practice!
6 Jul 2010, 19:36 pm
No place for Aplon, de Jongh
2010-07-06 17:40Email | Print
Gio Aplon (Gallo Images)
Adnaan Mohamed
Auckland – Two of South Africa’s most exciting young backline talents Gio Aplon and Juan de Jongh will not be in the Springbok starting line-up in the Tri-Nations Test match against New Zealand at Eden Park on Saturday.
Zane Kirchner, Jean de Villiers, Jaque Fourie, Wynand Olivier, Bryan Habana, Morné Steyn, Ricky Januarie, Pierre Spies, Francois Louw, Schalk Burger, Victor Matfield, Bakkies Botha, Jannie du Plessis, John Smit (captain) and Gurthrö Steenkamp.
I like this side!!! bar january
6 Jul 2010, 19:38 pm
Here is my Legend backline:
9. Edwards
10. Lem
11. Lomu
12. Horan
13. Gerber
14. Kirwan
15. Blanco
Beat that backline. On a roll tonight (Lack of the boot the only weakness and maybe a bit flimsy on “D”, but any other backline could almost just give up on trying to prevent this side from scoring)
6 Jul 2010, 19:41 pm
@makethecirclesbigger(makethecirclesbigger)-111:
He also reckoned that Butch and Pienaar would be on the bench, which means Ruan is covering 9, not 10. I wonder where Hougaard is in PdeVs plans?
6 Jul 2010, 19:42 pm
@David(David)-110: Your mate not go by the nick ET ?
sheez, some of us already distrust dentists intensely… heebeejeebees…
6 Jul 2010, 19:42 pm
@Heavens Game(Heavens Game)-112:
Barry John in place of Lem. Then everything’s covered.
6 Jul 2010, 19:43 pm
@makethecirclesbigger(makethecirclesbigger)-111: I said it before to SL who psted that earlier: f.cksakes if that is the Bok backline…
6 Jul 2010, 19:48 pm
I’d play JDV in place of WO and play Aplon on the wing
Zane
Aplon
Mossie
JDV
Habana
Steyn January
6 Jul 2010, 19:49 pm
@David(David)-115: Lem would eat BJ for breakfast, whether BJ tries to give a sidestep, twinkle toes dash, or whether Lem decides to take the ball up… BJ will not stop my Lem from releasing a pass out of the tackle to:
1. Lomu or Kirwan off the blindside wing
2. Horan off the shoulder
3. None of the above…BJ just crumples on the turf after coming left against Honiballs knobbly knees
This backline is the patented HG first phase strikeforce !
6 Jul 2010, 19:50 pm
@makethecirclesbigger(makethecirclesbigger)-117: aye
6 Jul 2010, 19:52 pm
@makethecirclesbigger(makethecirclesbigger)-117:
I think PdeVs worried about stopping Joe. Besides, he wants the most experienced players on the park for the first game, same as GH.
6 Jul 2010, 19:52 pm
@makethecirclesbigger(makethecirclesbigger)-117: Eish… Don’t know.
6 Jul 2010, 19:53 pm
@Heavens Game(Heavens Game)-118:
Nah, pure class versus an artisan.
6 Jul 2010, 20:02 pm
@David(David)-122: In a backline full of ego’s Lem is the perfect fit – the ultimate selfless playmaker…
Now this is my backline – it reflect the HG character – perfect…
6 Jul 2010, 20:07 pm
@Heavens Game(Heavens Game)-123:
If perfect means a thug at 10 and 15, then I see what you mean about your character.
6 Jul 2010, 20:08 pm
Sorry, that should have been 10 and wing.
6 Jul 2010, 20:08 pm
@Heavens Game(Heavens Game)-112: legend indeed
6 Jul 2010, 20:17 pm
@David(David)-97:
de Villiers is a proven flop with regards to attacking play, the entire core of his understanding of backline play is flawed. You could give him the greatest backline in history and he’d still screw it up. Muir and Div don’t have the slightest clue. It’s interesting to note that under Jake we averaged over 20 points in every game bar a few results and had far more sting on attack. Under de Villiers we are far more one dimensional, but with a weaker defence. All we have now is Du Preez’s boot and our lineout, granted our breakdown superiority has improved markedly since the addition of Brussow, but that has more to do with the players wising up at Super rugby level. I don’t buy this nonsense that de Villiers is moving us into a better direction. The team Jake left behind was better than the team it has become. Poor player management, selection, tactics and coaching has robbed the Boks of the potential it should have achieved. Mark my words, we will not defend our title, we won’t even reach the final. I see another ’99 happening, but with a greater implosion as the one dimensional Boks are shown up with greater consistency as the WC approaches.
6 Jul 2010, 20:19 pm
@David(David)-125: Both wings are gentlemen off the field and try scoring machines on… Farklol Lem would have a chuckle at that descriptin of himself
…Lem a thug… lolll
@mamma_lou(mamma_lou)-126: Thank you kind sir. Care to put together an opposing backline…?
6 Jul 2010, 20:26 pm
@David(David)-120:
Sometimes you have to sacrifice a game for the bigger picture. Like I said, it’s now three years de Villiers has had to develop this squad, and if he had ear marked talented players and brought them into the system from the start we wouldn’t be in the position we are in. But now we are going to need to gamble to blood some players, like in 2006, only difference is de Villiers has had the right players available from the start of his tenure, and most pick themselves. Joe Petersen has been begging for a cap since early last year, Flip should have been blooded this year, Mapoe should have been in last EOYT, we’ve had far too many 9s knocking on the door… all of which have been shunned. If you listed the players that de Villiers has wasted his and our time with you’ll see that it’s most of his selections. So much wasted time, and it’s going to cost us big in the end. Too pig headed to do the right thing and put the Boks before his own ego. Where is JL Potgieter? Why did we wait so long for BJ Botha? Why stuff Smit around at tighthead? Why not back Ruan? why this resistance in selecting specialist players in their best positions? Far more important that getting one over New Zealand, we need to establish the strongest core group of players this year, and then carefully manage them from now until the WC, easing the work load on the spine of the team. It didn’t have to be this way, but this is the way it is because of de Villiers, now he has to deal with it, or continue bumbling along.
6 Jul 2010, 20:29 pm
@David(David)
@Heavens Game(Heavens Game)-114:
Hey! there are many medical students esp. UOFS and UP that were carried like that when they long toured the Antipodes, even Chris Pope of UCT.
6 Jul 2010, 20:30 pm
Lem was a hard man and a grafter, but a drastically overrated player. Kind of like Martin Johnson, who mean far more to England than anyone else, so to Lem was far more to us than everyone else. Compare him to the likes of Mehrtens, Larkham et al and he doesn’t come off too well at all. Not to say that he was rubbish, just that a balanced perspective is required.
6 Jul 2010, 20:32 pm
@makethecirclesbigger(makethecirclesbigger)-117:
I know it’s a gamble playing Aplon, but if we had a coaching team that could get the most out of our attacking players, I’d select him in a heartbeat. His ability to scyth through opponents is unbelievable! That’s x-factor, funny how non of the players Div rates has it LOL.
6 Jul 2010, 20:32 pm
I stole some time and risked speeding tickets to get here on time(75 in a 50 zone) in a freaking heatwave in the North East.
Later today it could reach 100 deg. F in Central Park NYC.
6 Jul 2010, 20:50 pm
@mshiniwami(mshiniwami)-19: think it’s their tight five that’s the issue, they’re getting out-muscled up front at S14 level and can’t clear out rucks properly.
6 Jul 2010, 20:56 pm
@mshiniwami(mshiniwami)-94:
Agree entirely.
You have clarity in opinion. A rarity in these parts.
6 Jul 2010, 21:04 pm
Busy watching the SWC, so I’ll comment later. At least the Dutch are winning.
6 Jul 2010, 23:14 pm
Thank goodness the cheats are out. The dirtiest team in the WC, and what a hack job that game against SA was. Bafana were reffed out of the game. And Ghana are a better side than both Holland and Urugay, but at least we are down to three good teams. Justice was done with that second goal, how does it feel boys? LMAO!!!! What goes around… comes around, and bites you in the rear. Have a nice flight muchacha’s
6 Jul 2010, 23:43 pm
The women and beer must have been great in France because Carter hardly played any rugby there…
7 Jul 2010, 03:43 am
Dan is the best
7 Jul 2010, 03:45 am
Morne is a little girl
7 Jul 2010, 04:08 am
Dan, you can’t be the best. Morne Steyn has that position stitched up my friend.
The fact that he rates Giteau just shows how much Carter knows… Giteau kills anything in the backline with his selfish play.
7 Jul 2010, 04:08 am
I see the two trolls are out and about today. Must have left the door open in little hobbit lands luny bin
7 Jul 2010, 04:15 am
@Kobus Kitty(Kobus Kitty)-141: I saw Morne run one time
7 Jul 2010, 04:18 am
@Waster(Waster)-143:
Past two Crusaders players to score under the polls……….
7 Jul 2010, 04:20 am
@whatever(whatever)-144: Yeah, would never have got through in chiefs or bay plenty land
7 Jul 2010, 04:20 am
@Kobus Kitty(Kobus Kitty)-141:
You mean 1 year old Morne is the best now??
You must be joking,Dan has been around the best in the world for a long time now.Of course he hsant been the best in the world all those years but you cant put Morne in the same class until he gets a few consistent years of internationals. Thats the way i see it.
By the way Carter knows a lot more about rugby than you do. If Carter rates Giteau and you dont,guess who 99.9% of the world would listen to,wouldnt be some farmer in South Africa
7 Jul 2010, 04:21 am
I saw the AB’s attempt a drop kick once…….think it was in the 2007 WC QF……… ahh no, just kidding they ran the ball……. and ? Well we all know don’t we?
7 Jul 2010, 04:22 am
@whatever(whatever)-147: Ha ha yeah wasn’t it a north harbour player?
7 Jul 2010, 04:22 am
@Waster(Waster)-145:
remind me of the Bulls v Chiefs score again?
Take your pick, this year or last year
7 Jul 2010, 04:25 am
@whatever(whatever)-149: Can’t remember, bulls cheated from memory, suzy was there
7 Jul 2010, 04:25 am
@Hurricane(Hurricane)-146:
Howzit mr Hurricane? Hey, all jokes aside, Carter is still one of the worlds top 10′s but I can’t agree on Matt G. I think he has been playing shite recently……..
7 Jul 2010, 04:26 am
@whatever(whatever)-147:
Yeah our 3rd choice #10 attempted that wasnt it? as both our main #10s were injured. Oh well its all in the past now like 2008 tri nations
7 Jul 2010, 04:27 am
@whatever(whatever)-151: Yeah cooper is surely better
7 Jul 2010, 04:29 am
@whatever(whatever)-151:
I am good thanks dude
Yeah Giteau hasnt been playing good but he still is a player that can change a game so should always been rated or not taken lightly when playing against him
7 Jul 2010, 04:29 am
@Waster(Waster)-150:
7 Jul 2010, 04:33 am
@Waster(Waster)-150:
Yep and Whatever knows as well. He has Suzy on quick dial on his cell phone.
7 Jul 2010, 04:42 am
Suzy and the Grootvis Jonah
7 Jul 2010, 04:51 am
I pity the All Blacks come Saturday.
Steyn vs Carter
Bok Supremacy vs All Black mediocrity
7 Jul 2010, 04:54 am
@Hurricane(Hurricane)-154:
Yeah, true. I guess his kicking will come good again as well?
7 Jul 2010, 04:56 am
Don’t care what anyone says, Sat is 50/50…anyone’s game. All the bravado, grootbek, trolling aside, it should be pretty even and hopefully a great game.
7 Jul 2010, 04:57 am
@Groot Gees(Groot Gees)-158:
Cool,if NZ get beaten on Saturday,i will be here the next day and still support my team.
If SA get beaten will you show face on here or be hiding under your computer desk blaming the ref?
7 Jul 2010, 05:02 am
@Hurricane(Hurricane)-161:
Hehe, I think the trolls are out big time at the moment………you based in Wellington? Going to the game next Sat?
7 Jul 2010, 05:02 am
I have been a staunch supporter of SA rugby all my life and if the Blacks pull one over us I’ll be the first one to congratulate you my fine chap.
7 Jul 2010, 05:03 am
@whatever(whatever)-160:
Exactly mate,anyone of those teams can win on Saturday,and i know you will be supporting your new home NZ,your secret is safe with me mate
7 Jul 2010, 05:06 am
@whatever(whatever)-162:
I have been living in Christchurch for the past 7 years.Born in Wellington and lived there right up to 2003. So i wont be going to the game next Sat,it will be a cracker.
@Groot Gees(Groot Gees)-163:
Why thank you.
But if NZ lose i will be blaming the ref
7 Jul 2010, 05:07 am
@Hurricane(Hurricane)-161:
Can you feel it? The Tri-nations is on your doorstep.Indulge boet.
7 Jul 2010, 05:07 am
@Hurricane(Hurricane)-164:
Dude, I’m going to the game with my partner, who is a Kiwi, could make for an interesting evening depending on who wins….
7 Jul 2010, 05:08 am
@Groot Gees(Groot Gees)-163:
Good man!
7 Jul 2010, 05:11 am
@Hurricane(Hurricane)-161:
Not in the spirit of this fine game.
7 Jul 2010, 05:27 am
@Groot Gees(Groot Gees)-166:
lol
@whatever(whatever)-167:
Yep,it will be interesting
7 Jul 2010, 05:49 am
@whatever(whatever)-167: Man partner?
7 Jul 2010, 06:00 am
@Waster(Waster)-171:
hehe…….yeah right!
7 Jul 2010, 06:04 am
North harbour going to be better this year with Boric as captain, still won’t beat bay of plenty tho
7 Jul 2010, 06:28 am
@Hurricane(Hurricane)-146:
Currently the best in the world. Do you understand what currently means? Should I slap that thick forehead of yours to get it working?
Now you listen to me, rugby players in the professional era are inherently thick. They may be good athletes but their brain capacity is nowhere near a graduate like myself. They would not be able to understand the game of rugby on such a deep level like I and many other South African fans would. We are done here. This is not a popularity contest.
7 Jul 2010, 07:25 am
@THEBokFan(bokfan1)-37: Wetie hoekom hulle dit censor nie. Het gese H o o r, h o o r…
7 Jul 2010, 10:07 am
@David(David)-97: I don’t think it is fair to say that the rugby conveyor belt does not produce domestic 12s of quality. My opinion is that we do, but their creativity gets stifled within a specific game plan once they hit a certain age group. They get moulded and intertwined within a specific offensive and defensive system that (in the case of some franchises) are implemented top-down.
Pieter Muller was an example of an outstanding creative player who became nothing else than a bulldozer in midfield. But that was because our second phase required him to suck in two or three fringe defenders to open up space on third and fourth phase.
Same with JDV actually…
7 Jul 2010, 10:28 am
@willievz(willievz)-176:
I agree, in fact I was going to add something similar after last nights game was finished, but ended up too plastered to post anything.
I’ne noticed in your past posts you describe the role of the 12 on defence as being the first to the breakdown. This has been the Boks approach since JW with de Wet Barry and continued through JdV and Olivier. This has had the effect of creating a stereotype 12, who’s valued more for his size and defensive capabilities than for his creativity. Once you focus a player on a particular aspect of his role you also change his psychological approach to the game in general. The Wobblies and ABs have generally preferred a creative 12 and by doing so, encourage that aspect of his play. In the Boks, and most SA teams, we do the opposite.
7 Jul 2010, 11:48 am
@David(David)-177:
South Africa does not possess the coaching personnel to play an expansive game. That is simple fact, we have the players, but the coaches CAN’T do it. Do you remember what happened when de Villiers and Muir tried? Or when Coetzee tried? Or Viljoen? But throw two Aussies in the mix and the Sharks and Bulls changed. Granted Roussouw has done a great job for the Bulls, but is unproven at test level. Coaching is the issue, it’s always been the issue. What Jake did was use what was available to him, remember, he never chose his coaching team, and was never allowed to choose his best XV, he stated so. He took the Boks back to their traditional strengths and, to date, built the most versatile and potent Bok squad on attack over the last eleven years, and with the best defence of the modern era. That’s nothing to be sniffed at, given that the current coach has a far larger, probably twice as large, pool of quality players. And another crux to your argument is that Jake unearthed the best attacking centre pairing the Boks have had in the last 14 or so years. Whilst de Villiers bumbles around in the dark getting it mostly wrong.
7 Jul 2010, 14:45 pm
@David(David)-177: On that point – being creative on attack and being a rock on defense are per se not mutually exclusive.
JDV is a good example – he is a naturally gifted distributor, offloader and creative genius, but he plays under specific instructions. The reason is primarily to ensure the first phase breakdown does not occur out of reach of our (usually) slower and heavier pack. But after second phase (the phase in which the 12 is usually not involved in), meaning on third and subsequent phases, we have lacked serious variation in our offensive game since the late 1990s. The 12 appears to crashball it up repeatedly when joining the play instead of passing to inside strike runners, for instance.
Particularly alarming was their distribution of the ball when in contact – it was usually knocked forward in an attempt to get it away to supporting players, or supporting players just simply ran the wrong line and thumbled the ball themselves. There were a definite lack of continuity in phase play and ruck ball presentation.
Eddie Jones played a big role in rectifying the abovementioned concern before RWC 2007.
I agree with Alucard’s post that the national coaching methods employed have significantly curtailed the potency of our 12s regarding decision making. I would like to add to that though – the problem is not necessarily a macro-one on the highest level, but rather at grassroots and primary school level.
The one-dimensional coaching styles that trickle down from franchise level to primary school level have obvious implications for the development of player vision and anticipation on the park. And in most cases, especially in non-urban areas and away from quality coaching infrastructure, the school rugby coaches are simply not equipped to teach kids the basics of the game. The result is that the young boerseuns simply use their brute force to punch holes in defense.
In contrast, the backline players in Aus and NZ get taught a basket of skills rather than a positional skills set, hence their versatility and, in addition, their willingness to migrate from position to position if required (think Giteau vs Ruan Pienaar, for instance).
7 Jul 2010, 23:18 pm
@Kobus Kitty(Kobus Kitty)-174:
Out of everyone here your the person i would love to meet and punch the living daylights out of . Your the idiot that was saying your a farmer and yet all of a sudden your more intelligent than all rugby players.
Show me where and how you come up with Morne is the best in the world? Show me the figures and facts. Everyone has there favourite players as i know you have a picture on Morne on your bedroom ceiling and that alone does not make him the best,get it through your thick farming numbskull of a pea brain.
9 Jul 2010, 05:42 am
@whatever
Well at least half the staduim in NZ hasn’t left the game just after half time like they did on loftus.
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