Learning from past lashings
28 Jul 2010
JON CARDINELLI says that for the Boks to move forward, they have to look back at the successes and failures of 2006.
The Springboks have three weeks to reflect on what was their worst Australasian tour in four years. Only the three heavy defeats of 2006 (the 49-0 thrashing in Brisbane, the 35-17 hiding in Wellington and the 20-18 disappointment in Sydney) rank higher in the Tri-Nations’ Hall of Shame. Peter de Villiers said he doesn’t know where they went so wrong, a frightening admission one year out from a World Cup.
But talk of replacing De Villiers is pointless. The player-driven system is no secret, but the reality is De Villiers and his assistants are contracted until the end of the 2011 World Cup. If Saru fires them now, they’ll be paying them win bonuses even if the Boks defend their title under a new set of coaches.
Springbok rugby needs to make do with what it’s got, and if De Villiers, Gary Gold and Dick Muir are going to spend these three weeks wisely, they’ll be doing some research. Former Bok assistant coach Allister Coetzee has already compared the two campaigns, and suggested all is not lost. The big question is, will De Villiers take heed of history?
Jake White’s Boks finished last in the 2006 Tri-Nations and went on to lose two out of three on their end-of-year tour. The Sanzar tournament was lost on the away leg, but the Boks saved some face with two late wins. White then took a number of youngsters to Ireland and England, leaving several senior statesmen in South Africa to rest ahead of the 2007 Super 14.
The Boks lost 32-16 in Dublin and blew a half-time lead in the first Test at Twickenham to lose 23-21. They broke the Twickenham curse a week later when Andre Pretorius kicked four drop goals in the 25-14 win, a victory that began South Africa’s dominance over England in the build up to the 2007 World Cup.
While that was important, the value of playing youngsters and leaving the senior guys at home to rest was evident. Frans Steyn emerged as an important figure on the tour, and in 2007, the Sharks and Bulls contested the Super 14 final. South Africa rode the momentum into the World Cup.
De Villiers needs to keep this in mind when planning for the remaining games of the Tri-Nations and the subsequent Grand Slam tour. Playing his best available players and preventing the embarrassment of losing at home is imperative. It will also ensure they prevent a 3-0 drubbing at the hands of either the All Blacks or Australia, which would be a massive psychological blow before a World Cup year.
Following the conclusion of this tournament, De Villiers must decide on who to rest and who to take to the United Kingdom and Europe. Fourie du Preez and Andries Bekker have already been ruled out with injury, and the latter blow may suggest Victor Matfield should tour. But judging by the amount of rugby the 33-year-old has endured this year, and the adverse effect it’s had on his performance, it would be best to give him time to recuperate.
Persisting with the youngsters and alternative combinations should be the objective on the Grand Slam tour. The World Cup is the priority, and if defending their title means risking a few defeats on the Grand Slam tour, then so be it.
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368 Comments
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28 Jul 2010, 11:12 am
Ag dragons – we will win alal home games.
28 Jul 2010, 11:12 am
alal = all
28 Jul 2010, 11:20 am
Take Juandre Kruger. He knows the condition and the opposition well.
28 Jul 2010, 11:23 am
apparently last year robbie deans and graham henry lost to a springbok team COACHED by players
why do they still have jobs then?
28 Jul 2010, 11:27 am
Our current state indicates that we will NOT achieve the Grand Slam so lets not even contemplate it. Take youngsters with a few oldies thrown in like Bakkies (who has hardly played this year) and Schalk. Schalk could lead the team too.
28 Jul 2010, 11:27 am
Before the Super 14 I thought we would win at least one game and get one bonuspoint from one of the other two games, leaving the fight for the trophy between the Boks and the AB’s. We had to play the tri nations with our best available team and we should stick to that. If players are unfit or over played one would expect the coaching staff not te select them to play, unless an overplayed player is still better than the second choice. Hopefully the next three weeks will give enough time for needed recovery.
The following players need to be rested for the end of year tour and should maybe also not be allowed to play Currie Cup:
1. Guthro
2. John Smit
3. Victor
4. Danie Rossouw
5. Schalk
6. Spies
7. Morney Steyn
8. JdV (debatable, maybe he is not overplayed)
9. Jacques Fourie
10. Habanna
My match 22 for the end of year tour to build depth but also to win most games:
1. CJ/Beast
2. Bismarck (wil he be ready?) (otherwise liebenberg, maybe Chilli if he has good Currie Cup, Gary B also fine)
3. BJ
4. Bekker(Will he be ready? If not who else?)
5. Bakkies (he will be well rested)
6. Flo
7. J Smith (Captain)
8. Duane Vermeulen
9. Hougaard (He needs game time at scrumhalf though, hopefully will get it in the CC)
10. Pienaar
11. JP Peterson
12. Olivier
13. Juan de Jongh (He will be better at 13 than 12)
14. Aplon
15. F Steyn
16. CJ/Beast
17. Reserve Hooker
18. J Deysel
19. Flip Vd Merwe
20. Basson
21. Peter Grant
22. Kockot
28 Jul 2010, 11:34 am
“The player-driven system is no secret”
Really? Please provide me with proof? Or are we talking open secrets again?
28 Jul 2010, 11:35 am
1. CJ/Beast
2. Bismarck / Liebenberg / Chilli (Cant decide?)
3. BJ
4. Bakkies
5. Flip
6. Flo
7. J Smith / Schalk (each could be captain)
8. Duane Vermeulen / Deysel
9. Pienaar
10. Steyn
11. JP
12. De Villiers (leader in the backline)
13. Juan de Jongh
14. Aplon
15. F Steyn
28 Jul 2010, 11:37 am
diewareouboet – I like your for EOYT.
Seems to me that PDV and the regional coaches have absolutely no communicatin whatsoever. None of the top Boks got the rest time they were meant to have during the S14, i just hope to God they are not played at all during the CC otherwise the top Boks iwll begin to break down by next year and the Boks will have a disastrous RWC
28 Jul 2010, 11:41 am
@WP Till I Die(WP-Forever)-7: the whole world is saying it, why can’t you see it?
28 Jul 2010, 11:43 am
@Transformation(Transformation)-10:
Because I don’t trust hearsay, and I like to see things for myself.
Have any of the players in the team come out and openly admitted it?
If so, why all the abuse being hurled at Peter de Villiers if he is in fact not the one coaching the team?
28 Jul 2010, 11:46 am
There is no scientific evidence to believe that the same will happen to us in 2011. Circumstances are different. Do not for one sec believe that we would be ok in looking back at 2006.
28 Jul 2010, 11:47 am
If Comrade de Veeliers would just not talk we are already winning something. It is the war between the brain and the mouth.
Comrade White made the one mistake and the Irish got the laugh in the end.
2006 and 2010. What is the difference. Comrade White was still building the Springboks. Yes. In 2010 Comrade de Veeliers she has the best team from 2007 and 2009. Right.
What is then the problem? No brains and big mouth.
28 Jul 2010, 11:53 am
Jake had a plan to win the WC2007. He knew what kind of players he wanted, how he wanted them to play (based on defence and set-piece supremacy) and brought in people he knew could help acheive this. And he was willing to sacrifice a loss or two to acheive his goal.
I really hope PdV has a similiar plan. What worries me is, to my knowledge, he hasn’t said what his plan is! One thing is for sure we need to sort out our defence, WC’s are won on defence.
28 Jul 2010, 12:08 pm
Grounhog day 2006
More like learn to ignore the media propaganda war been waged on captain and coach by foreign media
It’s WC shenanigans same clown and dirty bok comments as 2006
Hell we even got naaied the same way by the refs as 2006
All we need to do is replace Muir with Jones
It’s time we backed our team and fought back against the Sanzoo clowns in
28 Jul 2010, 12:12 pm
@WP Till I Die(WP-Forever)-11:what abuse? Pdv is just taking jabs as he rightly should after losing 3 in row overseas.
This is what i call abuse
Boks bore Gerber
Danie Gerber would “kick the coach” if he
was part of the current Springbok set-up.
The former Bok centre was one of the
game ’s great attacking players, and can’t
understand the conservative approach of
Jake White ’s side.
“The way things are going it would have
been extremely frustrating for me to play
rugby today. I probably would have
become so frustrated that I would attack or
kick the coach !” Gerber told News24.
“Players are not allowed to make decisions
as individuals and are not given license to
express themselves. There is nothing that
excites me about how rugby is currently
being played. There are too many rolling
mauls in the modern game, which is just
blatant obstruction. The ball carrier
sometimes has the whole pack of forwards
in front of him and there is just no way the
opposition can stop the maul without using
illegal tactics. ”
Gerber also called for the inclusion of Luke
Watson in the Bok squad.
“The bottom line is he is the best fetcher-
flank in the country at the moment. Besides
? that, he is also creative and epitomises what
is lacking in the current Springbok loose-
trio. ”
This entry was posted on Wednesday,
August 16th, 2006
28 Jul 2010, 12:13 pm
@WP Till I Die(WP-Forever)-11: Din’t you know that?
The script goes like this:
“If the Boks win we must credit in no particular sequence:
The Lord Almighty,
The player power,
The good knowledgeable bok assistants,
The match schedule,
The weather,
The playing pitch,
Structures in place(my favourite)which were established after WW2,
the appearance of a fella named Character (also a favourite),
if the Boks lose then it is,
PdV,
PdV’s comments, etc”
28 Jul 2010, 12:19 pm
you dorks, Jake White and the Boks got lucky with the WC in 2007, we didn’t have to face a single top 5 side. now he’s some sort of genius who won it by getting thrashed on the EOYT? the only reason Frans Steyn featured was due to injury, so if JdV didn’t get injured before the WC, that EOYT would have been a total waste.
28 Jul 2010, 12:19 pm
@Transformation(Transformation)-16: Howzit mf’ethu?
28 Jul 2010, 12:23 pm
@theOracle(theOracle)-19: great ntanga, zithini?
28 Jul 2010, 12:23 pm
@KevinRack(KevinRack)-15: I agree!
28 Jul 2010, 12:31 pm
@Transformation(Transformation)-20: akhonto ntanga, umntu uyonqena ukusebenza!
28 Jul 2010, 12:36 pm
Oh my hat.
The newest Twi-hard movie is called ………
“Breaking Dawn”
Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaarrgggggggggghhhh!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
28 Jul 2010, 12:39 pm
I think its a lot similar to 2006, we have alot of firstchoice injuries, tho we probably have more depth now.
Pick a young side for up north. Wont it be funny if Coach De Villiers adds the Grand Slam to his list of achievements too?
28 Jul 2010, 12:42 pm
Can you imagine a pack to the north of:
1. Beast 2. Bismarck 3. BJ 4. Bakkies 5. Danie 6. Brussow 7. Juan 8. Burger
bench: Guthro, Smit, CJ, Matfield, Potgieter
goodnight nurse – we will bliksem all and sundry.
28 Jul 2010, 12:46 pm
@gecko(gecko)-3:
I’m also rating Junadre Kruger. I follwed him very closely at the Saints in Northampton. He was giving O’Connell all sorts of trouble in Ireland against Munster!
Might take a few games to get settled into the Bulls setup, but my next in line combo for the Bok lock duo would definitely be:
Juandre/Flip and Bekker
28 Jul 2010, 12:47 pm
Speaking of past lashings …
About time I organised another session for the Monarchs at the Tudor (pay-by-the-hour) Hotel on Greenmarket Square.
It’s about time they got their come-uppance.
28 Jul 2010, 12:47 pm
heyneke …. help!!!!!!!!!!!!!! … die boskokkerot PDV het geen clue nie!!!!!
28 Jul 2010, 12:48 pm
JC,
Given the article can I assume you suggest Peter do exactly what Jake did, i.e. stick to the core or spine of the team (John, Victor, etc) to go to the world cup and just fill in the gaps in other positions?
28 Jul 2010, 12:51 pm
Selecting the correct players is only half the job…
Tactically we still have a lot of work/changes to do/make.
28 Jul 2010, 12:52 pm
It is also interesting to note, that for all the ‘youngsters’ Jake supposedly took on tour in 2006 to Europe, only Frans Steyn who made his debut there played any significant part in the World Cup the following year…
Pierre Spies who at that stage only had 4 tests under his belt of course missed the event…
So was the EOYT ‘experiment’ in 2006 a case to unearth young talent, or rather preserve the more senior guys?
Which is it you actually suggest PDV does?
28 Jul 2010, 12:52 pm
@theOracle(theOracle)-22: hahaha it’s not so hectic for mna namhlanje
28 Jul 2010, 12:57 pm
@PissAnt(PissAnt)-31:
If you consider that JW identified and decided on who he wanted to take to the next RWC way before the EOYT in 2006, then you have to assume the key priority was rest for the seniors rather than unearthing new talent…
28 Jul 2010, 13:00 pm
@PissAnt(PissAnt)-31: jp pietersen?
28 Jul 2010, 13:02 pm
@quotas_sux(quota_conrad_jantjies_is_jorrie_muller)-28:
Jinne you are dom verby.
28 Jul 2010, 13:02 pm
Fourie du Preez is he out for the whole year i thought twas just a few weeks ???????? and why dont the boks have an iphone app the abs and wallybies have one
28 Jul 2010, 13:02 pm
@Yetirat(Yetirat)-33:
Is there anything that suggests Peter has not done something similar (identify or know who he wants at the RWC)?
His faith in players are about as bad as Jake’s fascination was with the same issue too!
28 Jul 2010, 13:03 pm
Pdivvie’s performance review by SARU
Hoskins: OK Peter, so your team is 3-0 down….please explain why?
PDiv:Well you know, its like this. We did not lift our hind legs high enough, and the big dogs did all the running.
Hoskins: So what you’re saying Peter is that NZ and AUS were just better than the Boks on the day?
PDiv:Well you know, when you stick your finger in the air and it comes back with bird s**t on then you know you’re well loved.
Hoskins: Can you take us through your plans for the 3 remaining home tests, and how you plan to get our team back on track?
PDiv: I love myself, and believe me I have some interesting plans which include Ricki at prop, Earl Rose at flyhalf (he is the tiger woods of rugby) and all our forwards have now been taught how to cheat at the breakdown ‘cos the entire world is against us. Its a racist plot arranged by the Neo Nazi’s to ensure that the 1st black Bok coach fails.
Hoskins: Thank you Peter, I feel much more confident now. By the way, here’s your $5m RWC 2011 bonus payment in advance….there’s no way we will give back the RWC trophy now. On your way out, can you please tell Jake to come in and close the door?
28 Jul 2010, 13:04 pm
@Transformation(Transformation)-34:
Funnily enough he did not tour to Europe that year…
His debut was in the last 3N game in 2006 against Aus (where he played fullback) and his second game only the following year against Samoa
28 Jul 2010, 13:09 pm
TRANSFORMATION – 16
Great post, I hope that Danie Gerber was not cheering on 20 October 2007 when we won the RWC. You too for that matter.
28 Jul 2010, 13:11 pm
@PissAnt(PissAnt)-37:
He’s not been as consistent as Jake was with his selection policy so it’s difficult to say if he has made that identification or not to the same level that Jake had.
PDV from the outset though has not looked as RWC focussed as Jake was when he first took over. Perhaps the B&I Lions tour detracted form some of that focus, I don’t know.
Main difference was that JW was building players up whereas we’re trying to find ways to slow down their decline now.
28 Jul 2010, 13:11 pm
Is it only South Africa who get ‘klapped’ so badly? What worries me is that it happens so often! Why are we so inconsistent? Even the AB’s last year never got hammered the way we did. At least it is a contest!
28 Jul 2010, 13:14 pm
@Yetirat(Yetirat)-41:
He has been pretty consistent in selecting the following players whenever they were available:
Beast, John, Vic, Bakkies, Burger, Juan, Pierre, FDP, Habana.
28 Jul 2010, 13:19 pm
@PissAnt(PissAnt)-43:
Could possibly add Bismarck and JPP to that list too.
28 Jul 2010, 13:19 pm
@BULLET(BULLET)-40: hahaha why now?
hehehe
28 Jul 2010, 13:26 pm
45 – TRANSFORMATION,
I just love it when former players criticise coaches who then go on to win. It’s a big stuff you to the armchair critics who do nothing but complain.
I don’t see people like Gerber coaching?
It’s the same when Keo complains about the standard of ref’s. I have once challenged him to go complete his referee ticket, become an expert and then start hurling abuse. He was naturally non-commital.
What’s funny is that PDV was the Darling of SA rugby last year. When the Boks smashed the French 6 weeks ago, the public were happy. Now its all doom and gloom.
I think that Prof Noakes must be laughing in his Stellenbosch home. Did he not warn the entire country that Smit, Matfield, Burger, Spies, Bakkies, JDV, FDP and Habana need to rest or (and I quote) :”Their form will begin to wane!”
When it happened to JW, he listened (as I am sure DIV will too) and the result was that we won the RWC.
Now you have many a chump who will try tell the world that SA won a RWC in 07 that was easy. Fact is they beat every team that was good enough to win their games and get in front of them. We beat the defending champions twice. The same defending champions who beat Aus. Its not the fault of JW or the Boks that the Kiwi’s were not good enough to make the Semi’s of the 2007 RWC.
In 1999, Aus never beat the AB’s. Nobody called their campaign a farce.
28 Jul 2010, 13:28 pm
In 2003, England never beat the AB’s at the RWC, nobody called their campaign a farce.
28 Jul 2010, 13:31 pm
@PissAnt(PissAnt)-43:
Main problem there though is that those were the same players JW was consistent with in the build up to his RWC, and PDV has not identified any/many of his own new youngsters…
28 Jul 2010, 13:33 pm
@BULLET(BULLET)-46: nobody is saying that the WC 2007 Bok campaign was a farce… however, when you are looking to Jake Whites WC 2007 plans as some sort of infallible blueprint, you have to take into account that the team was never thoroughly tested, and as such it might not be wise to invest such faith in a strategy that was relatively unchallenged.
28 Jul 2010, 13:36 pm
Players that must be rested for the eoyt, must be those that will definitely be in the squad:
Smit
Danie
Victor
Schalk
Morne
Fourie
Habana
I wouldn’t rest Kanko or Spies, they simply wouldn’t make my squad to tour NH.
My side would then be:
Guthro
Bissie
BJ
Bakkies
Hargreaves/?Juan?
Brussow
Smith
Vermuelen
Hougaard
Ruan
JPP
JdV
De Jong
Aplon/Van den Heever/Mvovo/Basson
Steyn
Bench:
Jannie
Gary
Beast
Flip
Deysel
Butch
WO
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