Learning from past lashings
28 Jul 2010
JON CARDINELLI says that for the Boks to move forward, they have to look back at the successes and failures of 2006.
The Springboks have three weeks to reflect on what was their worst Australasian tour in four years. Only the three heavy defeats of 2006 (the 49-0 thrashing in Brisbane, the 35-17 hiding in Wellington and the 20-18 disappointment in Sydney) rank higher in the Tri-Nations’ Hall of Shame. Peter de Villiers said he doesn’t know where they went so wrong, a frightening admission one year out from a World Cup.
But talk of replacing De Villiers is pointless. The player-driven system is no secret, but the reality is De Villiers and his assistants are contracted until the end of the 2011 World Cup. If Saru fires them now, they’ll be paying them win bonuses even if the Boks defend their title under a new set of coaches.
Springbok rugby needs to make do with what it’s got, and if De Villiers, Gary Gold and Dick Muir are going to spend these three weeks wisely, they’ll be doing some research. Former Bok assistant coach Allister Coetzee has already compared the two campaigns, and suggested all is not lost. The big question is, will De Villiers take heed of history?
Jake White’s Boks finished last in the 2006 Tri-Nations and went on to lose two out of three on their end-of-year tour. The Sanzar tournament was lost on the away leg, but the Boks saved some face with two late wins. White then took a number of youngsters to Ireland and England, leaving several senior statesmen in South Africa to rest ahead of the 2007 Super 14.
The Boks lost 32-16 in Dublin and blew a half-time lead in the first Test at Twickenham to lose 23-21. They broke the Twickenham curse a week later when Andre Pretorius kicked four drop goals in the 25-14 win, a victory that began South Africa’s dominance over England in the build up to the 2007 World Cup.
While that was important, the value of playing youngsters and leaving the senior guys at home to rest was evident. Frans Steyn emerged as an important figure on the tour, and in 2007, the Sharks and Bulls contested the Super 14 final. South Africa rode the momentum into the World Cup.
De Villiers needs to keep this in mind when planning for the remaining games of the Tri-Nations and the subsequent Grand Slam tour. Playing his best available players and preventing the embarrassment of losing at home is imperative. It will also ensure they prevent a 3-0 drubbing at the hands of either the All Blacks or Australia, which would be a massive psychological blow before a World Cup year.
Following the conclusion of this tournament, De Villiers must decide on who to rest and who to take to the United Kingdom and Europe. Fourie du Preez and Andries Bekker have already been ruled out with injury, and the latter blow may suggest Victor Matfield should tour. But judging by the amount of rugby the 33-year-old has endured this year, and the adverse effect it’s had on his performance, it would be best to give him time to recuperate.
Persisting with the youngsters and alternative combinations should be the objective on the Grand Slam tour. The World Cup is the priority, and if defending their title means risking a few defeats on the Grand Slam tour, then so be it.
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368 Comments
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28 Jul 2010, 16:09 pm
@fsjakes(fsjakes)-87: I get your point buddy. And I always hear Saffas talk about the Boks improving and becoming no.1
My question is to them, what would the other powerful rugby nations doing in the meantime? the answer is that they are also improving…
so I will accept if the no. 1 spot changes hands every year or so because, unlike what many Bok supporters would like to believe, the other nations have just as good a players as we have… and good coaches too.
and oh by the way, PdV still have to play his home 3N games… so that on par record will swing one way or the other..
28 Jul 2010, 16:10 pm
as long as January never wears the green & gold again, i’m happy ..oh ya and get heyneke meyer!!!!!
28 Jul 2010, 16:11 pm
@Mustard(Mustard)-97: Jake owns an incredible technical knowledge about the game and can certainly add value to any team, but I doubt that he will work well with PDV considering the professional rivalry and visible jealousy amongst them.
The counterargument against what I’ve just said is that Jake and Eddie Jones, who also had a fair amount of media banter between them as national coaches, worked well together.
Personally I think Jake’s time is up, and he deserves to sit on the couch drinking a cold fetched beer.
We need a breeze of fresh air in the Boks, and in particular a proper defense specialist and referee consultant such as Andre Watson.
28 Jul 2010, 16:50 pm
@willievz(willievz)-103: Heineke Meyer is ahead of the rest by quite a margin but he will show SARU the finger if they ask him.
I personally would favour Nick Mallett but he is never going to get involved with the clowns at SARU again. So we have to keep what we’ve got and make do with what has become the norm in SA mediocrity.
28 Jul 2010, 16:53 pm
@Objective 101(Objective 101)-99: i think we cant judge Jdv on his performances so far…he was played out of position…he would still be my first choice 12. Vuki is gone i think
28 Jul 2010, 16:54 pm
@willievz(willievz)-103: ya Jake seems to be a my way on no way type of guy so i would agree with you…in a perfect world with no egos maybe
28 Jul 2010, 16:55 pm
@Objective 101(Objective 101)-104: We do not need to fish in local waters to catch the marlin.
There are plenty of quality foreign rugby gurus that would love to add a Springbok consultancy job to their CV and a WC medal to their collection of bling.
Sometimes, the best results are achieved when someone looks at a conundrum with a fresh pair of eyes and without any emotion. I believe every team should have such a neutral and sober element, and foreign labour provides just that.
28 Jul 2010, 16:56 pm
@Objective 101(Objective 101)-104: Mallet seems very happy with the Italian Job…less pressure and no sideshows….besides the fact of getting players released more often so he could work with them that seems to be the problem of playing in the NH.
28 Jul 2010, 16:59 pm
@Mustard(Mustard)-105: Good riddance. JdV and JdJ are similar players. I will wait and see how the 10-12 with a kicking 12 turns out for Aussies against ABs on saturday.
Our best no 10 Lem played at 12 for a very long time which is where he refined his tacklinhg abilities. FS may be expendable in the current rules set up as one needs a no 10 who brakes the gain line by running past it not kicking past it.
Actually Mallett’s side would be perfect for the current interpretation of the rugby rules.
28 Jul 2010, 17:01 pm
@willievz(willievz)-107: Before going foreign i would look to Meyer and Solomons first…but that said im not a Pdv basher…i think he should be given a chance. But Saru has to speak to Div AGAIN about his media outburst…less said the better…if anything hes giving these journos ammunition against everytime he has a press conference
28 Jul 2010, 17:03 pm
@willievz(willievz)-107: We will never have a foreigner in charge of coaching, as technical assistants sure but not coachng, there is too much fear that the political beans wil be spilt in the open for a forigner to get top dog job. Plus we export coaches so it would seem crazy to pay anothr Parriera a huge sum of money when we an do just as well locally.
We need SARU and the Banana Khompelas of thsi thsi world to go back to politics and leave sport to sports poeple.
28 Jul 2010, 17:07 pm
@Objective 101(Objective 101)-109: The 12 /13 combo is going to be crucial going into next years wc…and i think it will come down to the stormers combo in next years super15…if they play Jdv and Fourie then Div is forced to go with that into wc for continuity sake…if its Jdj and fourie then the same applies
28 Jul 2010, 17:09 pm
@Mustard(Mustard)-112: And we dont really have a kicking 12 besides Meyer Bosman and i think hes out of the loop…maybe thats why Div tried Butch there?? but nevertheless Jdv would be my pick
28 Jul 2010, 17:12 pm
@Mustard(Mustard)-110: Both of them have / had provincial ties, which could be an advantage or disadvantage for a Bok team depending on how you look at it.
It is much easier to coach a team if your players is under the impression that you carry no provincialist mantra.
I am a big believer that the national coach should be free of provincialist ties or a particular local dogma or ideology, even though I would like it to be a local person. However, in the professional era, I agree that this is largely an utopian goal since your best and most experienced local coaches are necessarily involved in a provincial capacity somewhere.
Both those names you mention are quality.
I have always been an advocate of the following idea: The best provincial coaches and former Bok coaches should have a monthly forum discussing the Bok team and its results, and what they would do differently. This intelligence should be syphoned through to the Boks and reviewed by the national coaching staff, who should be aware of the issues raised by people who either know a lot about the game, or who have been part of the national team in some capacity before and who are familiar with the dynamics of international rugby and coaching the Boks.
28 Jul 2010, 17:13 pm
@Objective 101(Objective 101)-111: Yep, I will stick to consultants as well.
28 Jul 2010, 17:24 pm
People seem to forget a number of things about the Boks and like to knock them at any opportunity, i am not South African by the way im Scottish so im not biased in any way to the Boks
2007 they played the defending champs twice who beat France who beat the All Blacks, France lost twice to Argentina and once to England who the Boks easily beat. The one ‘break’ they got was playing Fiji instead of Wales, does anybody really think that the Wales of 2007 would have stood a chance against the Boks?, if you do your delusional. They never played Ireland who were also horrendous in the world cup. Australia lost to England who were **** as well and as others have already pointed out the All Blacks lost to France. By the way the Boks were probably in the second toughest group. Tonga,samoa are very physical sides who play rough and are not afraid to break the rules, England are similar and were the defending champs, the USA were the weakest team they had but were still 35+ points better than both Romania and portugal who the All Blacks got in their group along with Italy and my mighty home team Scotland who have never beaten NZ. All in all the Boks were worthy champs in 2007
people also seem to forget the Boks did not compete in either the 1987 or 1991 world cup, they also had the best record of any international team at that point in time so who knows.
1999 they were 6 points away from a world cup win albeit probably an undeserving win, and then went on to beat the Blacks in the nothing 3/4th place play off
The current team is crippled by bad coaching bad selections player fatigue and a number of guys generally off form, the Boks are with ease the most inconsistent team in the world but it is better they are poor this year rather than next. I always said that last year despite their success they only played to about 60-70% of their potential, the worrying signs were the close scorelines despite the dominance because of poor defending and generally switching off after the game was sown up.
28 Jul 2010, 17:27 pm
@willievz(willievz)-114: Not Solomons please he also has a reputation for underachieving (Gary Gold was with him when teh Stormers promised a lot but never got anywhere).
What we need is someone who can explain to our coach and players how rugby rules are refereed and then a coach with assistants and a top notch analyst who can work out how best to exploit the rules with the players we have playing against a specific team. That takes effort and brain which sadly lack from most of the coaching team. The ABs play so well at the moment because they adapt their game depending on who they play against and how the referee blows the whistle. We are at the stage when it is one way or no way and so far it has been no way. Who is the Boks technical analyst? Cause he sure has not been doing his job properly.
Next time there is an interview with the coach I hope SARU are going to invest in some duct tape. We made ourselves the luaghing stock of world rugby. It took SA about 15 years to build a reputation and one idiot to destroy it in 5 seconds.
28 Jul 2010, 17:27 pm
@dquinn25(dquinn25)-116: Welcome to the discussions DQuinn, hope you have a good time blogging on keo!
28 Jul 2010, 17:28 pm
@willievz(willievz)-114: you have a very good suggestion in your post…but again in an ideal world with no egos and every intention of putting Bok rugby first.
I mean wouldn’t it possibly be the case of too many cooks in the kitchen? A lot of the brains trust would have strong personalities…and any criticism against the coach..even though it may be constructive…could be viewed by the coach as others giving a vote of no confidence…i know this is counter-intuitive but look at the egos we have in Sa rugby. Imagine a room with Pdv, Mallet, Solomons, White, Heyneke, Rassie, ****….id love to be a fly on the wall after a 3-0 drubbing
28 Jul 2010, 17:29 pm
last year graham henry commented that the laws needed to be changed because the kicking was destroying rugby. It’s interesting to note that a lot of bloggers responded by saying henry should ADAPT!
A year later we are led to believe that the all blacks have adapted to the revised law changes & subsequently advanced while the boks have stagnated.
Now the part that i don’t get is when does this adapting & advancing happen, because pdv & gh have had these teams for something like 2 months before the tri-nations started. Have the Boks stagnated in the super14 or in the 2 months they’ve been in camp with pdv?
Saffa super rugby teams seemed to have cottoned on very well to the rule changes and their performances tell that story, now i fail to understand how the same bunch of professional players can in a matter of months be stagnant!
28 Jul 2010, 17:29 pm
@Objective 101(Objective 101)-117: I agree that the Boks need more analysis and input on the specific referee before a game, and more importantly, need to increase our relationship with officials.
What do you think of my suggestions of getting Andre Watson involved with the Boks permanently and taking them through the motions in terms of refereeing in the week before training?
28 Jul 2010, 17:34 pm
@Mustard(Mustard)-119: Not only the risk of too many cooks in the kitchen, but also the risk of coaches rubbing off their provincialist mantra on the national blueprint and favouring their own players and gameplan in their suggestions.
But at least this will get people around a table and we can start to think constructively about the issues at hand without bashing each other and making unprofessional comments as to what could have been.
28 Jul 2010, 17:36 pm
@willievz(willievz)-121: Sorry…week before training should be week before match.
28 Jul 2010, 17:39 pm
@dquinn25(dquinn25)-116: Thats what eats at us Bok supporters…is that we know that we have the team to be consistently good…but we are not.
28 Jul 2010, 17:41 pm
@Transformation(Transformation)-120: I dont think the Boks have a problem with the laws but rather the interpretation of the laws by the NH referees….in the Super14 there were no complaints
28 Jul 2010, 17:44 pm
@Transformation(Transformation)-120: “Have the Boks stagnated in the super14 or in the 2 months they’ve been in camp with pdv?”
I think the results will show that they have not stagnated in the Super 14.
28 Jul 2010, 17:45 pm
@willievz(willievz)-122: Thats where professionalism comes in and putting there own agendas/ambitions aside for the good of Bok Rugby
28 Jul 2010, 17:45 pm
@willievz(willievz)-121: Andre Watson is good, the ABs have regular sessions with current refs, but would you want to get involved afer the coach has called one of your fellow practitioners a cheat?
We keep on finding excuses for PdV stupid outbursts. English is not his first langauge. What a load of bollocks. They guy is paid millions. It sounds much like some politicians who excuse stealing and corruption because english is not their first language.
28 Jul 2010, 17:50 pm
@Objective 101(Objective 101)-128: He should keep quiet as much as possible at the press conferences….or say a lot but mean nothing..but then again that wont work for Divvy…anything will be used against him at this point
28 Jul 2010, 17:53 pm
@Mustard(Mustard)-125: but that is not what is being said if you read some of these articles. Phrases like “the springboks are playing last year’s rugby & the all blacks are playing next year’s rugby” are doing the rounds internationally. That running/expansive rugby is the new trend and the Boks are stuck in a “kick & chase” rut…
28 Jul 2010, 17:53 pm
@Mustard(Mustard)-129: He should not even be there. Point. It is embarassing having to hear him and showing up as the representative of SA Rugby and SA at large.
28 Jul 2010, 17:56 pm
@Transformation(Transformation)-130: Not the bks, the people who devise their game plans. We have brilliant running rugby talent yet they hardly ever touch the ball. It reminds me of when a guy sitting next to Naas on a plane. Naas asked him who are you? He replied your inside centre.
28 Jul 2010, 17:57 pm
Can someone illuminate for me the difference between the current laws governing the Tr-Nations Internationals & the last S14.
I was under the impression that they were the same?
And if they are the same, why did we do so well at that level, yet are so bereft at international level.
28 Jul 2010, 17:58 pm
@Transformation(Transformation)-130: Beating the Boks is not so complicated – match us physically, run us off our feet, protect the ball.
28 Jul 2010, 18:00 pm
@Transformation(Transformation)-130: In my opinion we are very, very slow. We lack pace at almost every position that requires a level of speed. But we are particularly lacking at inside center and fullback.
28 Jul 2010, 18:01 pm
@SodaJoe(SodaJoe)-133: Coaching damn coaching. How welldid the Lions do under Muir? Played 13 lost 13. What do you expect of the Boks with such a coach who has such great understanding of the laws.?
28 Jul 2010, 18:02 pm
@Transformation(Transformation)-130: Div and Smit said they were bemused at some of the refereeing decisions and Matfield also looked particularly frustrated at some of the calls. I think we should make up our minds based on what we saw and not accept everything we read. I mean look at the Aus game for eg. did we really have a kick and chase gameplan?? As i recall i only remember seeing two up an unders through out the game…i could be wrong but thats what i recall. Yes there was a few from Zane but then again thats all he can do he hardly runs it back
28 Jul 2010, 18:05 pm
@Objective 101(Objective 101)-136: Please don’t bring up **** Muir’s tenure at the Lions.
Now that you have. Yes.
Our 3 coaches have no level of ability to compete on an international platform.
It’s all very well that the players coach the team (although that may well be conjecture)but the flaw is that those “coaches” lose form and it’s a house of cards. Neither Smit, Matfield or Habana are playing well at all, and FdP is injured.
Boom.
28 Jul 2010, 18:05 pm
@SodaJoe(SodaJoe)-134: thats the plan
28 Jul 2010, 18:08 pm
@SodaJoe(SodaJoe)-135: Jdv and Jdj at 12. Fullback i have no idea…kirschner not the answer
28 Jul 2010, 18:13 pm
@SodaJoe(SodaJoe)-134: hi soda, longtime no see on the window… So where do these newspaper rugby ‘experts’ get the ideas expressed below?
‘The Springboks just don’t get it. They insist they won’t change their game to take into account the realities of rugby in 2010. So they are deliberately trying to undermine the new interpretations. The hope is, presumably, that the IRB might restore the kick/pressure/penalty game that was so favourable to them.’
28 Jul 2010, 18:14 pm
@SodaJoe(SodaJoe)-138: No qualms but the response we get from SA Rugby is that because JW was kaaaak in one year it is ok for PdV to be as bad if not worse. I that is a logical explanation then I rest my case. What concerned me the most is that despite the fact that what we did did not work we persisted. To err is human but to persevere …
I agree that we should rest all of our older players and put in them in some sort of a physical rehab programme (that is how we won on 2007!!!), plus we must start selecting players on merit. To pick Januarie at 9 because he scord one try last year that won us a match in New Zeland was a joke, to pick him twice was no loger a joke but plain stupidity.
Our best no15 is in france yet for soem stupid reason and personal pride PdV will not pick him and rather excuses his dementure with the outburst that according to him players playing overseas are not that fit anymore. Why pick Butch James and CJ vander Linde? There is no logi cin what is being done. Anyway if we get drilled in SA as well probably will be the case no amount of shielding will keep PdV in his job.
28 Jul 2010, 18:20 pm
@Mustard(Mustard)-137: talking about Zane’s playbook… when was the last time did you see the SA backs run back to support their fullback?!!… almost everytime Zane got the ball he is all by himself at the back with no supporting players (JdV & Habana too tired to run back)…
what I’m trying to say is that Zane’s up and unders were always the safest play under the circumstances mentioned above…(considering that he does not have Aplon’s elusiveness at the tackle point)
If SA learned to run back and support the back three we can counter attack more… you will notice that when Mils ran the ball back he always had 2 or 3 players he could offload to when tackled… that was never the case with SA.
28 Jul 2010, 18:25 pm
@theOracle(theOracle)-143: That is because he starts to run as soon as he catches the ball (and does nto knock on) so that by teh time he gest to the opposition he ha srun where is support is. Kirchner catches the ball (sometimes) looks around then runs or kicks by then the defence is in his face, support or no support.
Just like Januarie he has to look around before he does anything, no instinctive natural play.
28 Jul 2010, 18:25 pm
@Objective 101(Objective 101)-142:
” No qualms but the response we get from SA Rugby is that because JW was kaaaak in one year it is ok for PdV to be as bad if not worse. I that is a logical explanation then I rest my case”
Correction, stats show that Jake only had 1 good year (the latter part of 2007).
28 Jul 2010, 18:28 pm
@theOracle(theOracle)-143: i here your point but Zane does the same at the Bulls…almost as if he is scared to run it back with the fear of being turned over (for the boks and bulls) so his first instinct is to kick….thats what i liked about Frans if there was an opportunity he took it
28 Jul 2010, 18:30 pm
@theOracle(theOracle)-145: He also won a 3N when he took over.
28 Jul 2010, 18:43 pm
@Mustard(Mustard)-146: “almost as if he is scared to run it back with the fear of being turned over (for the boks and bulls) so his first instinct is to kick”
you are correct…that is why I compared him to Aplon. Aplon is such a “dangerous” player because he is the opposite, therefore he have the constant fear of being turned over… and he is hardly ever turned over because most of the time the opposition defence are wary of committing a high tackle on him (which is always a threat when a player of his tiny built runs straight at you)…
Zane, like Frans, always run the risk of being turned over because they are not great “steppers”, they only aim to break the line or around defenders…
talking about “steppers”, that Quade Cooper is one mean stepper, I remember him on Saturday side stepping some defenders from a standing start!! Players like him, Izzy, Mapoe and Aplon play as if they are playing touch rugby sometimes…
28 Jul 2010, 18:48 pm
@Mustard(Mustard)-146: Zane is good defensively, and his positional sense is also good.
Unfortunately he is a carthorse.
Who’s up and under rivals Conrad Janthe’s for aimlessness.
Joe Pieterson
Louis Ludick
And I feel that Frankie Hougaard would make an excellent fullback.
All are fast and can be our Mils, Cullen, etc. Joe P can kick as well.
28 Jul 2010, 18:48 pm
@Objective 101(Objective 101)-147: I know, I can still remember where I was watching it with some buddies.. I was ecstatic when we lifted up the cup… but other than that… it was an ordinary year because we never dominated NZ & AUS…
we also got our bottoms handed to us by Ireland and E-nge-land, E-nge-land, E-nge-land( Sorry…I was just reminiscing about the vocal England supporters at the 2010 SWC)
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