Learning from past lashings
28 Jul 2010
JON CARDINELLI says that for the Boks to move forward, they have to look back at the successes and failures of 2006.
The Springboks have three weeks to reflect on what was their worst Australasian tour in four years. Only the three heavy defeats of 2006 (the 49-0 thrashing in Brisbane, the 35-17 hiding in Wellington and the 20-18 disappointment in Sydney) rank higher in the Tri-Nations’ Hall of Shame. Peter de Villiers said he doesn’t know where they went so wrong, a frightening admission one year out from a World Cup.
But talk of replacing De Villiers is pointless. The player-driven system is no secret, but the reality is De Villiers and his assistants are contracted until the end of the 2011 World Cup. If Saru fires them now, they’ll be paying them win bonuses even if the Boks defend their title under a new set of coaches.
Springbok rugby needs to make do with what it’s got, and if De Villiers, Gary Gold and Dick Muir are going to spend these three weeks wisely, they’ll be doing some research. Former Bok assistant coach Allister Coetzee has already compared the two campaigns, and suggested all is not lost. The big question is, will De Villiers take heed of history?
Jake White’s Boks finished last in the 2006 Tri-Nations and went on to lose two out of three on their end-of-year tour. The Sanzar tournament was lost on the away leg, but the Boks saved some face with two late wins. White then took a number of youngsters to Ireland and England, leaving several senior statesmen in South Africa to rest ahead of the 2007 Super 14.
The Boks lost 32-16 in Dublin and blew a half-time lead in the first Test at Twickenham to lose 23-21. They broke the Twickenham curse a week later when Andre Pretorius kicked four drop goals in the 25-14 win, a victory that began South Africa’s dominance over England in the build up to the 2007 World Cup.
While that was important, the value of playing youngsters and leaving the senior guys at home to rest was evident. Frans Steyn emerged as an important figure on the tour, and in 2007, the Sharks and Bulls contested the Super 14 final. South Africa rode the momentum into the World Cup.
De Villiers needs to keep this in mind when planning for the remaining games of the Tri-Nations and the subsequent Grand Slam tour. Playing his best available players and preventing the embarrassment of losing at home is imperative. It will also ensure they prevent a 3-0 drubbing at the hands of either the All Blacks or Australia, which would be a massive psychological blow before a World Cup year.
Following the conclusion of this tournament, De Villiers must decide on who to rest and who to take to the United Kingdom and Europe. Fourie du Preez and Andries Bekker have already been ruled out with injury, and the latter blow may suggest Victor Matfield should tour. But judging by the amount of rugby the 33-year-old has endured this year, and the adverse effect it’s had on his performance, it would be best to give him time to recuperate.
Persisting with the youngsters and alternative combinations should be the objective on the Grand Slam tour. The World Cup is the priority, and if defending their title means risking a few defeats on the Grand Slam tour, then so be it.
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368 Comments
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28 Jul 2010, 18:48 pm
@theOracle(theOracle)-148: whats your take on jantjies
28 Jul 2010, 18:50 pm
@theOracle(theOracle)-148: Aplon is a wing, and should start at wing ahead of JPP.
Frans is too slow to be a fullback under current laws imo, and should play at 12 where he is lethal on defence, scary on attack (but maybe a bit too crash bang bif).
28 Jul 2010, 18:51 pm
@Mustard(Mustard)-137: ruan on his own, kicked 4 box kicks and the 5th found touch in the wallabie 22
28 Jul 2010, 18:52 pm
@SodaJoe(SodaJoe)-149: I like Hougaard’s cameo at the end… he is my kind of scrummy… I scrummies that are aggressive around the ruck… they keep the defending team guessing and not sure how to organise their defense…
28 Jul 2010, 18:53 pm
@Transformation(Transformation)-153: i take your word for it…it just seemed to me that we kicked less against the Aus than we did in previous weeks
28 Jul 2010, 18:55 pm
@SodaJoe(SodaJoe)-152: so then who would be your fullback?
28 Jul 2010, 18:58 pm
@theOracle(theOracle)-148: talking about steppers, did you see james o’connor make the springboks look like dimwits in this own 22! Wow…
28 Jul 2010, 18:59 pm
@Mustard(Mustard)-151: I haven’t seen him in a long time… the last few years he has been very average and not as confident as he was when he burst onto the scene (can you remember his man of the match performance against the Ozzies in 2001/2002?(can’t remember the exact year)…
when he was at the Lions, he combined well with Andre and their combined kicking (not necessarily place kicking) game was the best back then… now he has become mechanical unfortunately
and I’m not sure he will improve this after his longterm injury…
28 Jul 2010, 19:03 pm
@Transformation(Transformation)-157: I saw that…the boy also has bulked up tremendously and that has added to his artillery… I could not believe the hand-off he gave to one of our vaste vyf (i think it was between Burger and Matfield)… after I saw that I had a sinking feeling that the Boks were in for spanking of note..
28 Jul 2010, 19:03 pm
@theOracle(theOracle)-158: yes i remember that game…hes not the same player unfortunately…but im interested to see how he goes in the super15 next year…could surprise us
28 Jul 2010, 19:04 pm
guys outa here…supper
Cheers
28 Jul 2010, 19:09 pm
@SodaJoe(SodaJoe)-152: I agree… we need an elusive, Izzy Dagg kind of player from the back, someone who can create a gap out of nothing… (as some experts here like to say: “in test rugby there is no space given to play”)
I haven’t see enough of Lambie but Aplon for me can do the job… but most fear that although his defence is good, he will be easily despatched by attacking players if he is the last line of defence..
28 Jul 2010, 19:10 pm
i also reckon F Steyn at 12….
28 Jul 2010, 19:22 pm
@grant10(grant10)-163:
Frans is out of the equation until after next years S15. It’ll be interesting to see where PdeV sees de Jongh fitting in long term , at 12 or 13.
28 Jul 2010, 19:26 pm
@theOracle(theOracle)-150: We did indeed. From my point of view the real golden years were with Christie and Mallett. Christie we cannot have back but letting Mallett go was as stupd a thing as they could do. I wonder where our rugby would be if he had stayed on.
Problem is that in modern times you need accedemies to focus on your best players. In our country we do not do that we use accademies to correct the demographics of sport which is not the rigth way to go if you want to remain a winning nation and promote excellence. The demographics of sport must be corrected at school level not at accademy level. But hey who am I to say. Look at strong rugby schools and look at how many players they contribute to the provincial sides. Then lok at our SA Craven week side and askyoruself whethe those ar the best players or not. We haev allowe dto get ruled by politics and as usual politics does nothing else than screw evything up. It did at the time of the broeders and it is doing it now.
28 Jul 2010, 19:27 pm
@David(David)-164:
Forgot, the EOYT is falls into the international test window, so his club must release him.
28 Jul 2010, 19:27 pm
@David(David)-164: I have only seen him at 12, and he was the most dangerous 12 in S14 with ball in hand, and also handles defensive duties adequately.
28 Jul 2010, 19:28 pm
If they weren’t so kak bang Bok’s would have plenty back line go forward, its this pathetic conservative penchant that puts us in this predicament, there is no such shortage of game breakers in the back line.
Viljoen, Aplon, Joe Pietersen, Kirchner, Lambie
JPP, Aplon, Basson, Van Der Heever, Basson
Fourie, Mapoe, J. de Jongh, Habana, Ebherson
J. de Jongh, JdV, F, Steyn, M, Steyn, JL Potgieter
Habana, Mvovo, Nokwe, Hougaard
Pienaar, JL Potgieter, P. Grant, Lambie, M. Steyn
Pretorius, Hougaard, Duvenhage, Pienaar
28 Jul 2010, 19:30 pm
@Objective 101(Objective 101)-165:
One of the things most fans ignore, is that not all talented youngsters see professional rugby as a career. I reckon that’s something we miss when wondering what happened to them.
28 Jul 2010, 19:32 pm
@skopskiet(yliad)-168: Yep nobody talks about Joe Pietersen a player of incredible talent albeit his size. He will not make the Boks and now with Janties back he will not even make the WP starting 15 unless he starts playing at no 10 which for me could be a real treat.
Pietersen coudl be a special no 10 can kick has incredible natural vision and has a great side step.
28 Jul 2010, 19:33 pm
@David(David)-164: ja….pity.
Juan de jongh a more natural 13 imo….but a damn fine player…far better than WO..imo
28 Jul 2010, 19:34 pm
@SodaJoe(SodaJoe)-167:
He also made some well timed offloads against the Aussies, which is vital for a 12. It’ll be interesting to see how he develops as he only started playing 12 in this years S14.
@skopskiet(yliad)-168:
You’re right, we kill the attacking flair in our players.
28 Jul 2010, 19:35 pm
@Objective 101(Objective 101)-170: joe is in france for 2 years
28 Jul 2010, 19:40 pm
@Objective 101(Objective 101)-170:
I agree with you. Also the guy was showing a lot more maturity in his decision making at 15 during the S14, which is vital in a flyhalf. A pity he’s gone.
28 Jul 2010, 19:43 pm
With all the out of position selections I can’t help but wonder how Fourie du Preez would have done as a flyhalf… Why has nobody tried to convert him?
I’m not saying I would but if PdV can play JdV at wing then its not too far fetched.
28 Jul 2010, 19:45 pm
This is the story of a strong international brand being destroyed by misadministration, mismanagement, and miscoaching.
A seven-year cycle is apparent: the 2003 World Cup and the 2011 World Cup.
28 Jul 2010, 19:46 pm
Its not only in the backs where we l;ack vision.
Its the forwards as well.
We seem intent on discarding the fetcher….back to the dark era of Jake…..
Without Bissy we have no one capable of ripping at the breakdown…..when they dropped flo i just sighed in disbelief…..and i cannot understand why Steggmann was not over there.
We seem so afraid to embrace the youthful players who are in form……very, very frustrating times
28 Jul 2010, 20:10 pm
@grant10(grant10)-177:
There is no dark era of Jake, He had a bad 2006 season due to an extensive injury list. he learnt from it & got the results.
What is Peter’s excuse? Why was JdV playing on the wing? Why was Ricky & Olivier kept in the starting XV after disimal performances?
The diffrence between Jake & Peter is that Jake knew what went wrong & fixed it. Since Peter has been coach there are comics in the front and back of every newspaper.
28 Jul 2010, 20:12 pm
@JohnX(John_Psycho)-178: jake was not any better…..imo.
His lack of a fetcher cost us throughout his reign….
a wc win with a dream sequence of games doesent blind me to his dumb philosophy.
28 Jul 2010, 20:16 pm
@JohnX(John_Psycho)-178:
What injury list did Jake have in 2006, than is worst than PdeVs current one?
28 Jul 2010, 20:21 pm
@David(David)-180: not sure about injuries… but he did choose to send a 2nd string team on the away leg of the 3N and on the EOYT.
28 Jul 2010, 20:28 pm
@wooden spoon(wooden spoon)-181:
Yes he did, to rest his senior players. In the end, he was lucky to avoid WC injuries apart from JdeV.
28 Jul 2010, 20:33 pm
Jake never fixed nothing, some you people are delusional
Jake lost as follows
24 Jun 2006 SAF v FRA 26-36 Newlands – Loss
5 Jul 2006 SAF v AUS 0-49 Brisbane – Loss
22 Jul 2006 SAF v NZL 17-35 Wellington – Loss
05 Aug 2006 SAF v AUS 18-20 Sydney – Loss
26 Aug 2006 SAF v NZL 26-45 Loftus – Loss
02 Sep 2006 SAF v NZL 21-20 Rustenburg – Win (1pt)
09 Sep 2006 SAF v AUS 24-16 Ellis Park – Win
11 Nov 2006 SAF v IRE 15-32 Lansdowne Rd – Loss
18 Nov 2006 SAF v ENG 21-23 Twickenham – Loss
25 Nov 2006 SAF v ENG 25-14 Twickenham – Win
16 Jun 2007 SAF v AUS 22-19 Newlands – Win (2 x FS long range drop goals)
23 Jun 2007 SAF v NZL 21-26 Kings Park Durban – Loss
07 Jul 2007 SAF v AUS 17-25 Sydney – Loss
14 Jul 2007 SAF v NZL 6-33 Christchurch – Loss
This is a string of losses interspersed with a few wins (4 wins against 10 losses – from 14 games) over a period of 12 months that should make any international coach blush with embarrassment. Yet these idiots that think Jake White knew what he was doing remain bamboozled by their own dumb schmuck delusions.
Only thing White did right was realize he had no clue about winning rugby whatsoever so he employed somebody who did in EJ and that is what saved his credibility, along with a world cup draw that resulted in his side never meeting any team ranked higher than Argentina at 6 IRB ranking.
Bok’s entered WC 2007 ranked 4th behind NZ, Aus and France and emerged at rank 1 after beating 13th rank Fiji, 6th rank Argentina and 7th rank England.
Jake White had possibly the worst rate of wins / loss percentage of any Bok coach if you consider 4 wins from 14 games over a period June 06 to July 07 against teams that actually mattered or were rated higher than rank 6 in the world.
Idiots that still think this fool represents a rugby strategy that worked are pretty much clueless, Jake White was more at sea than PdV could ever be until he got Eddy Jones to bale him out the spiral of lost causes he found himself facing in July 07 after the 3N that year.
28 Jul 2010, 20:36 pm
@grant10(grant10)-179:
I have to disagree. Jake took over the laughing stock of the world & transformed them into World Champions in four years.
Peter took over World Champions & in S03 is transforming them into the laughing stock.
If the ball is there fetch it!
Jake didn’t pick that dream sequence, they played who was infront of them. Sa beat England 36 – NIL, Aussies lost to England so the Aussies had their chance to come up against the Boks just like New Zealand did.
I have no doubt that Jake & The Boks at the RWC’07 would have beaten team in their path.
28 Jul 2010, 20:36 pm
i see Ulster have confirmed Ruan Pienaar will officially be an Ulster player w.e.f. 1 sept 2010.
Well done sharks and boks……
28 Jul 2010, 20:37 pm
@JohnX(John_Psycho)-184: okay
we will have to agree to disagree
28 Jul 2010, 20:39 pm
@JohnX(John_Psycho)-184: see skops 183…..not so wonderful stats ?
28 Jul 2010, 20:40 pm
@skopskiet(yliad)-183: you cut and paste that from 2008, or perhaps 2005? It’s years later skop and you are still saying the same thing. You must really be loving all this renewed Jake White talk
Your post doesn’t explain how Jake White guided the Boks to the 3N crown in 2004 and how we finished 2nd in the 2005 3N to a single bonus point. Neither does it explain why the IRB considered Jake White good enough to be coach of the year 2004.
Fact is skop, you may not like JW personally, but he was miles ahead of Streauli, Viljoen, Du Plessis, Markgraaf, etc. Let’s just be grateful he restored some much needed pride in the Bok. He was the right man for the time.
Not any more though.
28 Jul 2010, 20:42 pm
4 wins from 14 games that mattered through 06-07 = a grand win % of 29%
Factor in the one sided world cup draw of
Samoa – rank 12
England B – rank 7
USA – rank 16
Tonga – rank 14
Fiji – rank 13
Argentina – rank 6
England A – rank 7
and suddenly you get to fool yourselves that this coach had some clue about what he was doing, meanwhile it was his mentor Jones that held his hand through his hour of need else he would have folded.
Bet you much as you like that if not for E. Jones Jake would have played Olivier when JdV went down injured and not F. Steyn. It was Jones that gave him the courage to make decisions he could not make alone, and change the game plan that pulled him out from that 4 wins from 14 games spiral against proper opposition backdrop to his WC campaign
28 Jul 2010, 20:44 pm
At the risk of “sour grapes” accusations …..
The ABs lost against France because of their own stupidity. They refused to set for a drop goal because the captain really believed that Barnes could not continue to ignore France’s players being offside. But he did and the ABs lost (defeated themselves).
France then considered that they had “won” their WC and capitulated to a very so-so England (an England that had already played the Boks).
So to the final…..
28 Jul 2010, 20:44 pm
Think of all the losses to NZ in our own back yard… 16-52 at Loftus just the year before (in 2003).
In fact, Jake’s first game in charge against the All Blacks, we lost 23-21 late on in Christchurch… Very next game we thumped them at Ellis Park 40-26, our first win against NZ in 4 YEARS!
Can’t argue that JW restored pride and a sense that we should beat the All Blacks at HOME 9 times out of 10 – something we take for granted now.
28 Jul 2010, 20:46 pm
all i hope and pray is pdv finds the courage to walk his own path…..
its going to take ballas
although i reckon some deals are probably beibg struck as we speak
28 Jul 2010, 20:48 pm
@grant10(grant10)-187:
Horrible stats no doubt!
28 Jul 2010, 20:48 pm
I don’t buy this “we fluked a RWC thanks to the draw” bulls hit.
We beat who we had to.
Not our fault NZ lost in the 1/4s to France (who were beaten by Argentina TWICE and who we beat convincingly).
Not our fault France lost to England in the 1/2s (who we utterly thrashed in the pool and beat in the final).
Not our fault Aus lost in the 1/4s to England (see above).
Stop finding reasons to “hate” Jake White
28 Jul 2010, 20:54 pm
@wooden spoon(wooden spoon)-194: i do agree that we can only play who is in front of us….
but lets face it , it was an awesome sequence of games….a bloody dream come true! [ thank you rugby Gods !]
I dont hate JW….i do however dislike his rugby philosophy….we are poles apart.
As such i would rather he does not coach Boks again….even if he would want to make LW captain.
28 Jul 2010, 20:56 pm
we not talking 04 and 05 when he still baffled the world into thinking he had a clue, sure he was better than Streauli, any idiot could have been better than that fool.
We talking 06-07 where Jake White could not buy a win against top rank sides if they were stacked up on a plate, he simply didn’t have a clue and that is precisely why he called E.Jones to bale him out his forlorn clueless stupor.
He may have been better than Streauli, perhaps, though Streauli met proper opposition in 03 in 1st rank England and 2nd rank NZ, not low rank sides like Jake did in 07.
He was not better than Du Plessis though, who actually setup the blue print for Mallet to inherit his visionary team. Du Plessis created the Teichman team with Honiball, Fleck, Montgomery, Roussouw, Joubert etc in the backline
Mallet simply rode on Du Plessis creation and fine tuned it to win a string of successful games till his own big head got the better of him too.
Same as Heyneke Meyer came last in the S12 for the first few years running till he managed to turn his Bulls philosophy around. Du Plessis would have done same with Bok’s if given the chance.
28 Jul 2010, 21:02 pm
@skopskiet(yliad)-189:
a list of our 1st choice players were injured during the 2006 season. No coach would have been able to do better under the circumstances.
28 Jul 2010, 21:05 pm
Colin Bryden
A Test too far for Smit?
2010-07-28 08:38Email | Print
Sport24 columnist Colin Bryden (File)
Colin Bryden
There’s definitely a place for sentiment in sport, especially when there’s a feel-good factor likely to moisten a cheek or two.
It’s not always in the best interest of teams, though.
Makhaya Ntini was always going to play in the first Test against England last season. Cricket South Africa had already announced it was going to make a big occasion of it because it was his 100th Test.
So, despite poor domestic form, he was picked. Sadly he didn’t make much of an impact, making the celebrations and presentations somewhat hollow. He played in the next Test, too, and then was dropped. By then, South Africa were 1-0 down in a four-match series.
Watching Tri-Nations rugby over the past three weekends has caused me to wonder whether the Springboks are on the right track, a year out from the 2011 Rugby World Cup.
Then someone mentioned that John Smit will be playing in his 100th Test on what should be an extra-special occasion, the first rugby international to be played at the magnificent stadium which hosted the Soccer World Cup final recently, against the All Blacks, too.
Smit has been one of the undoubted greats of the game but we have to start wondering whether he will still be up to it in a year’s time. We also have to wonder whether the World Cup master plan is starting to unravel.
It seemed a great idea a year ago to keep the stars of the 2007 World Cup together for a second crack at glory but now it looks a shaky strategy. It’s also a bit late to start building a new team.
As we saw with the football, where the defending champions Italy brought an ageing squad to South Africa and failed to get beyond the first round, four years is a long time in sport.
The Springbok scene seems confused and one wonders who is going to fix it.
It makes me at least mildly nostalgic for the days when Danie Craven ruled South African rugby. He might have become an old dictator but he was a rugby man through and through. If there was a crisis in the team he was quite capable of taking off his jacket and sorting it out himself.
I look around sport today and don’t see too many people in administrative leadership positions who have played at the highest level.
It’s certainly not necessary to have been an international sportsman in order to be a capable administrator, but it does help when it is necessary to make decisions affecting the national team.
Who in the current South African rugby set-up, I wonder, is qualified to make an objective, technical assessment of the job that Peter de Villiers and his coaching staff are doing?
Colin Bryden is a former cricket correspondent of the Sunday Times and current editor of the Mutual & Federal South African Cricket Annual
28 Jul 2010, 21:10 pm
@grant10(grant10)-198: in my opinion….if you want sentimentality…..go see a chick flick.
But then again i reckon Plod has been superfulous for at least a year now.
should have retired in a blaze of glory post last years B and I lions tour…..but no !
Then an even greater farewell after the tri nations….but no.
Now a disatrous EOYT and a terrible start to the tri nations 2010 tarnishing the reputation week after week…..
Come on Plod….call it my man….you done.
28 Jul 2010, 21:15 pm
It looks like the boks are playing more and more like the Lions in the S14, could there be a link?
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