Smit to feel Bismarck’s heat
29 Jul 2010
GRANT BALL writes that Bismarck du Plessis’ imminent return to rugby heaps further pressure on John Smit.
Smit has rightfully been criticised by former players, coaches and the media for his performances over this international season, especially on the Springboks’ Australasian tour. On his return to South Africa this week, that pressure would have increased with news that Du Plessis – the Boks’ first-choice hooker last year – is back in training and taking contact after being out for three months.
Du Plessis won’t feature for the Sharks this weekend, but is set for a return to the 22 next weekend when they play the Lions. It will take some time for him to regain his best form and fitness after a serious neck injury, but what has been clear regarding Smit is that his form spirals without having Du Plessis pushing him, although he won’t have that luxury now.
Du Plessis’ return to the playing field will be two weeks before the Boks’ first home Test in the Tri–Nations, and while it would be unrealistic to expect him to force his way into that squad in such a short time, Smit will know that further laboured individual and team performances will have his critics salivating.
Smit will start at Soccer City, as part of the fanfare in the build-up has revolved around it being his 100th Test. Peter de Villiers has also stated his intentions and placed his faith in Smit until the end of the World Cup, handing him a contract until then.
If Du Plessis recovers fully from the injury and rediscovers any sort of form similar to last year, there’s no question that he offers more playing value than Smit. However, in the Boks’ current player-driven system, Smit’s leadership takes on even more importance, although even those attributes have waned with his and the team’s form on the decline.
Against the top nations like New Zealand, Australia and France at a World Cup, the Boks won’t be able to carry passengers and they require the best players on the field – not selecting a captain and then basing the rest of the side around that.
Du Plessis’ unrivalled physicality and mobility that sees him act as an extra loose forward – which will gain even more importance under the new law interpretations – was the initial reason why Smit was moved to tighthead in 2008. With Smit being so off the pace in the Tri–Nations at hooker, the remaining question is whether he’ll continue to be used there through until the World Cup.
After being so selfless for the Boks throughout his career, Smit needs to make the decision on which position he’ll play. He believes he offers the most to the team at hooker, but he’s been hampered by putting on extra weight for the tighthead switch. What’s clear with Du Plessis set to return is that Smit needs to be better conditioned and he must display a level of form that will silence his detractors ahead of the World Cup.
Accommodating Smit and Du Plessis in the same team has been a problem for the Sharks and Boks since 2008, and it’s set to continue with Du Plessis’ return next week.
Follow SA Rugby mag on Twitter
210 Comments
29 Jul 2010, 15:11 pm
Hooker dragons
29 Jul 2010, 15:18 pm
cue entry of grant10 from back left stage…….
cue spotlights…….
29 Jul 2010, 15:28 pm
the title is ****-erotic
29 Jul 2010, 15:29 pm
@charo(charo)-2:
Sharks: 15 Louis Ludik, 14 JP Pietersen, 13 Stefan Terblanche (captain), 12 Patrick Lambie, 11 Lwazi Mvovo, 10 Steve Meyer, 9 Charl McLeod, 8 Ryan Kankowski, 7 Keegan Daniel, 6 Jacques Botes, 5 Ross Skeate, 4 Steven Sykes, 3 Wiehahn Herbst, 2 Craig Burden, 1 Patric Cilliers.
Replacements: 16 Kyle Cooper, 17 Tendai Mtawarira, 18 Eugene van Staden, 19 Willem Alberts, 20 Jean Deysel, 21 Ruan Pineaar, 22 Andries Strauss
29 Jul 2010, 15:35 pm
plod to feel bissie’s heat
hehehe
29 Jul 2010, 15:38 pm
Probably the best thing about all of this is that Smit will inadvertently get rested the year before the RWC with Bismark starting for the Sharks and an end to Smit’s stint at prop.
29 Jul 2010, 15:39 pm
@sharks_lover(sharks_lover)-4: resting Beast or is he not match fit?
29 Jul 2010, 15:43 pm
@Big Hit(Big Hit)-7: hiyas BH
yes he is fit but plum felt he wanted to stick to the combo that had been playing so well together the past few weeks
also take into account the boks leave after 2 weeks and then the team is without them again
plum wants continuity thus he has stuck to the team unless injured
29 Jul 2010, 15:44 pm
@Transformation(Transformation)-5: eish this darkie misbehaving again
good day old chap
29 Jul 2010, 15:45 pm
grantie is going to wet his speedo when he reads this…
Looks like transie has already wet his
29 Jul 2010, 15:52 pm
Bismarck sails again.
29 Jul 2010, 15:53 pm
@sharks_lover(sharks_lover)-8: fair call sl. It’ll be interesting to see what kind of form BDP is in, Sharks looking good for the CC assault, finally seem to be getting some depth in the backline albeit Terblanche at 13 isn’t ideal.
29 Jul 2010, 15:53 pm
Will Bismarck be sunk by Smit’s torpedo?
29 Jul 2010, 15:54 pm
@sharks_lover(sharks_lover)-9: hahaha hiyas bro ^5
@gunther(gunther)-10: i don’t wear speedos mhlathi wembuzi!
29 Jul 2010, 15:58 pm
which genius @ saru, thought it apt to negotiate the extra club side fixtures if pdv was talking like this before they left?
However, Smit stressed that a European
tour, which includes Tests against France,
Italy and Ireland and two midweek matches
against Leicester and Saracens, fourth and
first in the Premiership respectively, were to
be negotiated before they could reflect
positively on the season.
‘Yes, we’ve had a good season, but three
Tests remain. It’s a big challenge that lies
ahead and we start against a tough French
team, ’ the Springbok captain said.
‘There are also games against club sides that
have players from all over the world. That
amounts to five big challenges. ’
Springbok coach Peter de Villiers has
predictably opted to rest the majority of his
key players for Friday ’s fixture against
Leicester, but he conceded that the short
break would do little to refresh his battle
weary troops
.
‘We allowed the players to play in the Currie
Cup and we could see how it contributed to
the quality of the play. But we now play
against France and Ireland, and they are
going to take the game to us, ’ he said.
‘It’s not difficult to maintain the standards
that we set, but the players are
psychologically tired. We ’ll have to think
about how to overcome that.’
29 Jul 2010, 16:02 pm
I bet Bismarck is a real play buoy.
29 Jul 2010, 16:03 pm
Both hookers are a luxury to have, and offer different capital to the squad.
Smit is a scrummaging hooker. Bismarck is a physical mobile hooker.
When both are on form, it does not really matter who you pick. However, this selection has definite implications for the selection of loose trio.
If Smit plays, you need two deck players in your trio to compensate for his lack of mobility – one at 6 and the other preferrably at 8.
If Bismarck plays, you can get away with playing a single forager in the loosies, and have the option of playing a taller or bulkier nr8 that can serve as an additional line-out option or who can assist in cleaning at rucks and mauls.
Unfortunately, our loosie combos are a real worry to me.
The SA rugby public’s fascination with a Burger, Smith and Spies loose trio is a far greater concern than who to pick between Smit and Bismarck.
I wish our coaches would also reconsider the balance of the loosies, not only in terms of personnel, but in terms of the hooker selection that shapes the effectiveness of your backrow.
29 Jul 2010, 16:05 pm
you can slice it
you can dice it
you can spin it
you can do whatever you want to
but i tell you all right now
as nite follows day
as tuesdays follow Mondays….
Its all over rover….goodnite nurse.
All the aura…all the leadership….***** for sweet fanny aams when the big bad Kiwi, Frenchie, Aussie.Irishman and Argie come a knocking at the door.
Plod….do the right thing.
iF ITS NOT ABOUT YOU AND YOUR OWN EGO…..
SLIP QUIETLY INTOO THE NIGHT.
oR BE SHOWN UP AS A CANCER ???
29 Jul 2010, 16:06 pm
@willievz(willievz)-17: Our loosies should, as a combination, be Smith, Brussouw and Vermeulen. While Brussouw is injured Stegman or Flo.
29 Jul 2010, 16:07 pm
@gecko(gecko)-19: Who would you play as hooker with that combo?
29 Jul 2010, 16:08 pm
@gecko(gecko)-19: I should have added – for the gameplan the Boks wants to play.
29 Jul 2010, 16:09 pm
transie
Mhlati Wembuzi = boardshorts?
29 Jul 2010, 16:09 pm
“they require the best players on the field – not selecting a captain and then basing the rest of the side around that.”
Smit wasn`t the best hooker at the last world cup either(Bissie and Gary Botha were even then), but he was still chosen by White (who would still select him now I`m sure) and Pienaar wasn`t the best in his position either but was chosen on his captaincy skills. So I think this comment holds no ground if you look at history. You need a strong leader when suddenly you`re losing to Fiji in a quarter final, or holding your line in pouring rain against the French in a semi. Choose your captain first when it comes to world cup, no doubt.
29 Jul 2010, 16:09 pm
@willievz(willievz)-20: Hell Willie, tough one. As everyone I have a lot of time for Smit, but last year Du Plessis was the best hooker in world rugby. So Du Plessis.
29 Jul 2010, 16:10 pm
@willievz(willievz)-17:
Whats wrong with the Burger , Smith , Spies combo ?
The only combo id have instead would be Brussouw , Schalk , Vermuelen. Smith,Spies,Burger is a near perfect combo feared around the world.
29 Jul 2010, 16:11 pm
@wp_boytjie(wp_boytjie)-25: That combo lacks an out and out fetcher – in the current game you need one. No doubt.
29 Jul 2010, 16:16 pm
@grant10(grant10)-18:
Enjoyed the intro..had week day infomercial all over it.
29 Jul 2010, 16:16 pm
@gecko(gecko)-26: Brussouw
29 Jul 2010, 16:17 pm
@gecko(gecko)-24: Going with your combo, Bismarck is the more logical choice to me.
People often wrongly credit our breakdown success in 2009 solely to Heinrich. While he was certainly my choice as world player of 2009, he was significantly assisted by Bismark in terms of slowing opposition ruck ball.
Remember that an opensider cannot participate at every single ruck. Usually, he is occupied at the first phase collision point, and will only be freed up when the third phase occurs.
As a hooker, Bismarck was usually not engaged in the first phase collsion as he had to make his way from the set piece and ridding himself from the neck of the opposition hooker at the scrum. But he did play a crucial role in slowing down opposition ball on the second phase breakdown.
As phase play progress, it is easier for both the opensider and the hooker to be engaged at similar collision points, but if you do not succeed in stifling opposition momentum on the third phase, you are in for a tough afternoon.
By only playing Heinrich as a forager or deck player you are, in theory at least, still in for a tough time.
The Bulls appear to be stern believers in this logic too, opting for a mobile hooker to accommodate a non-foraging nr8.
29 Jul 2010, 16:17 pm
Play Smit at 3 again
29 Jul 2010, 16:17 pm
@willievz(willievz)-20:
Agree 100%…it all depends on what the match day strategy is…..
29 Jul 2010, 16:18 pm
@wp_boytjie(wp_boytjie)-28: I have answering to your ‘Smith,Spies,Burger is a near perfect combo feared around the world.’ comment.
29 Jul 2010, 16:18 pm
for me….
Bakkies [ with a sane head of course ]
juan smith
bissy
Add the mongril and tough steel.
Brussow….adds the out and out fetcher….
BJ / CJ adds the stablity at scrum time.
We want to play passenger like spies….we better have a Bissy…thats for damn sure.
Plod is quite simply superfulous.
Matfield a more than capable leader…..
It is absolute hogwash, sentimental, candy floss bulldust of the highest order that we so destabilise our team for the so called captaicy aura.
Its costing us gents….and will continue to do so.
Ask the kiwis on this site who they rate the most as SA hooker?
Ask them…..
29 Jul 2010, 16:19 pm
@wp_boytjie(wp_boytjie)-25: Very unbalanced combo with no forager. You will struggle to slow down opposition ruck ball.
29 Jul 2010, 16:19 pm
@Mike H(Mike H)-30: are you farken be fark ????????
29 Jul 2010, 16:20 pm
@AJ(AJ)-23: what do you then when the strong leader is plodding around the field blowing hard in the 1st 10min, huh?
When the captains starts throwing duds nullifying out lineout, what then?
When the captain cant keep up with a rejuvinated keven mealamu, what then?
You get pumped by 30 pts for 3 consecutive games china
29 Jul 2010, 16:21 pm
bingo…
29 Jul 2010, 16:21 pm
35. grant10(grant10) :
AHAHAHHAHAH
29 Jul 2010, 16:21 pm
@gecko(gecko)-26:
I wouldn’t mind seeing a Stegmann (6), Kanko (7), Vermeulen (8) combo to see how they go.
29 Jul 2010, 16:23 pm
@charo(charo)-2:
ok, will somebody switch the spotlights off now….
29 Jul 2010, 16:23 pm
@Yetirat(Yetirat)-39: Maybe in a SA A team. But not the Bok team. While he is fit, Juan Smith is a must.
29 Jul 2010, 16:23 pm
38. Mike H(Mike H) :
Play Bissie or even Chillie the rest of the year and try get Smit into shape for the WC.
I heard Bissie doesn;t scrum well though and some blame him for or back pedalling scrum last year.
29 Jul 2010, 16:23 pm
see the bloody accomodation selection tactics again??
See how the dof saffas think?
Smit a kak useless turbo reversing 3….
then shown up as an over the hill slow poor 2…
Bok scrum the only positive of the whole tour.
Mikes solution….
Lets accomodate Plod by destabilising the 1 and nly positive to come out the tour.
My mind boggles….i need to reach for a tablet….or better still…take a walk.
This idiocy kills me i tell you.
outta here
29 Jul 2010, 16:24 pm
@charo(charo)-40: yeah somebody needs to pull the plug
29 Jul 2010, 16:24 pm
@gecko(gecko)-32: They are not perfect , but I dont believe in chucking away expierienced veterans left right and center when results dont go our way.
Brussouw , Smith , Spies With Schalk on bench
Brussouw ,Burger , Spies with Flo on bench.
Spies needs to start performing. Too much talent there not to be performing.
29 Jul 2010, 16:25 pm
43. grant10(grant10) :
I was kidding mate – but i’d liek to see the scrum with Bissie there and another 3 to test the theory
29 Jul 2010, 16:26 pm
@Yetirat(Yetirat)-39: why kanko at 7 when we have specialsits like Juan Smith, Schalk Burger,Deysel?
Damn….i will walk an extra km for that kak suggestion.
And i thought you were 1 of the brighter okes.
29 Jul 2010, 16:26 pm
no doubt about it…bissy is the business! plod will move to prop again…mark my words
29 Jul 2010, 16:27 pm
47. grant10(grant10) :
Go walk already!!
29 Jul 2010, 16:27 pm
heard that smittie and lukie had kissed and made up.
apparently butchie was the matchmaker.
can smittie stay now please grant10?
29 Jul 2010, 16:28 pm
48. OUToftheBOKS(OUToftheBOKS) :
It is a possibility mate
29 Jul 2010, 16:28 pm
@Mike H(Mike H)-46: well tell that to my heart surgeon …that almost killed me you fool!
29 Jul 2010, 16:29 pm
50. charo(charo) :
rofl
29 Jul 2010, 16:29 pm
the title of this thread should be:
The infactuation with Plod has to stop!
29 Jul 2010, 16:30 pm
Hahaha
So now we get pumped and it’s ALL smit’s fault…
Wow that was easy!
I wonder if we can pin aids and unemployment on him as well:)
And global warming.
The cognescenti have spoken…
29 Jul 2010, 16:30 pm
@OUToftheBOKS(OUToftheBOKS)-48: I think you are right…
29 Jul 2010, 16:30 pm
@charo(charo)-50: plod can kiss and ,ake up as much as he likes….
may make him a better kisser….but he will stay an over the hill plodder of note and an albatross around the boks and sharks neck.
Plod can fetch the beers while Luke leads boks…..as it should be.
29 Jul 2010, 16:31 pm
52. grant10(grant10) :
Your too easy to wind up.
But I feel the same way when people insult JW too much as well
I’m a massive Smit fan but he needs time off so if they rest him now I have no problems with that.
Come Wc we will need him.
29 Jul 2010, 16:32 pm
@OUToftheBOKS(OUToftheBOKS)-48: yep, maybe Steenkamp will be tried at 3 with Smit at loosehead like the S14
29 Jul 2010, 16:33 pm
57. grant10(grant10) :
The Stormers were pretty **** under Luke while the Sharks have been one of the best SA franchises for years. They struggled this year and the Stormers did well (without Luke)
Luke is a trouble is a arrogant little kid. My brother wnet to school with him and he’s just trouble
29 Jul 2010, 16:34 pm
if smit moves to 1…..in place of guthro…it will be the biggest sin in the history of SA Rugby.
A move to 3 cant happen….he already complained that he feared for his safety.
Maybe a move to wing in place of habana….who seldom gets the ball or makes his tackles there anymore anyway.
Damn this sickness of having to accomodate Plod has hurt Sharks badly….now going to take the boks down….
And it is so farkenunneccessary.
Crazy….we still amateurs at heart.
now really outta here
29 Jul 2010, 16:35 pm
55. gunther(gunther) :
Indeed mate got to love it.
Grant10, aka Harry Viljoen – tree in the wind boy, calls me a fool but really needs a mirror
29 Jul 2010, 16:36 pm
@willievz(willievz)-56:
After watching Potgieter for a while now, I think he could easily fill the 6 roll. His general play and skill set is that of the classic tearaway and polishing his ground skills wouldn’t be too difficult with some playing time. Wickus made the transition easily enough. If he did, I reckon he be the perfect all round 6 in the McCaw mould.
29 Jul 2010, 16:38 pm
this is going to be a fun thread.
now we just need dawn, katman and ranger to join.
29 Jul 2010, 16:38 pm
61. grant10(grant10) :
Grant10 is the only professional around here as you can tell from his post
I’m sure you’ll be sending in your CV after WC2011.
29 Jul 2010, 16:39 pm
@gunther(gunther)-55: yes, if you want to wear Plod blinkers!
mhlathi wembuzi!
29 Jul 2010, 16:40 pm
@grant10(grant10)-61: a team needs its captain, Steenkamp to 3 might be the answer
29 Jul 2010, 16:41 pm
Mike H
Everybody who disagrees with grantie is a fool!
It’s a fools paradise…
29 Jul 2010, 16:41 pm
64. charo(charo) :
Exactly what Keo wants – these Smit blogs just rack up the hits.
You either love him or hate him. Seems very little inbetween
Most capped Rugby in rugby history and is treated like **** by his own fans.
Old Monty will know the feeling, luckily Jake could see through the moronic supporters hatred for the pretty boy.
29 Jul 2010, 16:45 pm
@Big Hit(Big Hit)-59:
@grant10(grant10)-61:
Think that is what might happen. Correct me if I’m wrong: somewhere during the season, the Sharks fronted up with Plod, Bissie and Jannie? They KILLED the opposition (my memory is as good as a goldfish…so sh i ts…cant remember how often they played together).
Guthro is in good form, yes, but would you rather sacrafice bissy or guthro to have plod. thus, i think guthro and bissie are competing for a spot, because, although i hate to admit it…we need captain plod.
Loosies then: Juan smith, Heinz BRUSOU and Schalla at 8, with spies for impact.
BOOM
29 Jul 2010, 16:45 pm
And Grant10 – MAllet even admitted fropping Teichmann was his worst mistake
29 Jul 2010, 16:46 pm
@Mike H(Mike H)-69: most capped my arse mike, all i’m saying is that smit is not fit NOW!
What happens @ the world cup or before it nobody knows. But for tri-nation 2010 smit shouldn’t be playing PERIOD!
29 Jul 2010, 16:46 pm
72. Transformation(Transformation) :
I do agree
29 Jul 2010, 16:47 pm
don’t shout me down…..but what about Watson at 8? Skillful and great hands…in fact the opposite of Spies who really is a wing.
29 Jul 2010, 16:47 pm
@OUToftheBOKS(OUToftheBOKS)-70: and yes, that might get guthro to 3…and this might work…Plod, bissie and guthro…bj and cj overated anyway…they were SOSed back, but have not impressed me AT ALL!!! Even if you dont like jannie, he was far better than B and C….J!
29 Jul 2010, 16:47 pm
71. Mike H(Mike H) :
Dropping Teichmann I mean
29 Jul 2010, 16:48 pm
The reality is that JS moved to tighthead because Bismark was the better hooker, we had a problem at T/H and we needed to retain his leadership skills. Unfortunately JS is no Keith Woods, who was also drawing a pension as well as his Ireland salary, and 2 is asking a bit much of him in todays high speed game at his age.
29 Jul 2010, 16:49 pm
@David(David)-63: To be honest David, I had a similar thought until quite recently, but have given up on that idea.
Potgieter is too talented in his allround game and too limited in his fetching game at this moment to specialise there.
For me, he is better at assisting the turnover than going for it outright. Slowing down ruck ball is becoming a very specialist trade, if it isn’t already.
At nr8, Potgieter has much greater freedom to express his natural game and to serve as a linking player between the forwards and backs. Modern opensiders are too engaged in the rucks and collisions to serve as a linking player.
Even as a blindsider, he would have slightly more freedom to gel together a collision point with the close channels (think the angle he ran in Cardiff).
I know you will argue that McCaw is the perfect exception to what I’ve just outlined, but he is a phenomenal player who can multitask on offense without compromising his primary responsibilities at the ruck.
29 Jul 2010, 16:49 pm
@Mike H(Mike H)-69:
True no appreciation for the achievements of yesterday. I have faith this group will bounce back. Too much expierience , too much class.
29 Jul 2010, 16:49 pm
@Transformation(Transformation)-72: he’s fit enough for prop, people just expect more of a hooker these days
29 Jul 2010, 16:50 pm
77. David(David) :
The more I think about Smit at 1 the more I like it.
Hard to leave Bissie out and a props playing careers is probably the longest on the pitch
Tell you Victor needs to shape up as well. Everyone is slating Smit but Victor has been **** this 3 nations as well. Missing kick-offs is a shocker
29 Jul 2010, 16:51 pm
74. XV(XV) :
You and Grant10 need a room mate
just kidding but ye Grant will love you for that comment. That makes 2 Watson supporters on this blog 
29 Jul 2010, 16:53 pm
I still think Smit needs a good rest this year. Moved to prop or not.
Victor and Habana also do.
29 Jul 2010, 16:53 pm
AND PLEASE GIVE MAPOE A CHANCE! that guy is seriously talented! Get him fit, injury free, and he WILL be the best wing in world ruggas…thats what me thinks.
29 Jul 2010, 16:53 pm
@David(David)-77: A scrummaging hooker can still play in the modern game, but not for more than 60 minutes.
This alone should be an alarming signal regarding the captaincy issue.
29 Jul 2010, 16:54 pm
@Mike H(Mike H)-81:
Smit Bissie Guthro (can he move to 3…versatile enough?)!
BOOM
Problem solved.
Next…
29 Jul 2010, 16:55 pm
@XV(XV)-74: I think Watson is a better 8 than Spies but imo there are better 8s than both for SA. Alberts, Van Niekerk, Potgieter and possibly Vermuelen might be better bets.
29 Jul 2010, 16:56 pm
@Mike H(Mike H)-82: Mike I know he has his detractors but he really is a great 8. Just a pity that the side show circus muddies the water……
29 Jul 2010, 16:57 pm
@willievz(willievz)-85:
I think bissy is stronger than plod anyway…be it plod built as a fatty prop, but bissy has the mongrel…we need that…and I think he is grown up enough not to make too silly stupid angry lash outs (remember when he just came on the scene for the boks against coneight (cant spell that dialect those fools talk)…he m o e red that ou stupid!
29 Jul 2010, 16:59 pm
@grant10(grant10)-47:
Eish take it easy bru.
Just trying to think outside the box a little. This is the problem everyone is so touchy about their favourites, anything out of the ordinary is rediculed straight away.
I would only try that combo against lesser opposition or in a Springbok “A” team as mentioned by Gecko. I think it has lots of potential.
It is about combinations Grantie. I put Kanko there because he brings the pace to that loose trio and I believe he can manage at 7 with the right support. I don’t want Smith or Burger because then what pace do I have in my back 3? You see now?
With Steggies we have one of the best un-injured fetchers in the country, Duane gives you abbrasiveness, ball carrying abilty and ruck work and Kanko gives you ball carrying ability and out and out pace.
All about combinations my good man.
29 Jul 2010, 16:59 pm
@willievz(willievz)-78:
I think Pottie could be almost as good, especially with his link and support game, which McCaw is excelling at now.
Glad you saw what I was getting at regarding McCaw.
BTW. Your unanswered comment yesterday about my preference for a creative 12. It’s true to a point, but for me it’s the 12/13 combo of a big straight runner and a distributor, regardless of which number. BOD made Roberts because of his running lines that opened gaps for him, and remember BOD started at 12, only moving to 13 to make place for D’Arcy, Conrad is the perfect foil for Nanu.
29 Jul 2010, 17:00 pm
@Big Hit(Big Hit)-87: Big Hit. I have always been a fan of Van Niekerk. Alberts and Potgieter also show a lot of promise. I remember watching a clip of Watson cross kick for his wing to collect and score. Not many number 8′s can do that. But there again I also think that Pienaar should be our flyhalf…….The trouble in SA is that there are so many good players that the trick is in the selection!
29 Jul 2010, 17:00 pm
88. XV(XV) :
Ye with so many things mate.
I do think Luke has matured in the last year or so.
I do like Van Niekerk, I’d love to see him in S15 again.
I really rate Spies but it seems when we struggle he really is nowhere to be seen which makes us struggle more. I used to rate his defense but it hasn’t been what it used to be. Picking atatckers up and driving them back. 2008 he was fantastic.
Maybe even though he is one of the younger core members he needs a rest.
29 Jul 2010, 17:00 pm
@Big Hit(Big Hit)-80: excuse me Big Hit, but you are talking rubbish! Smit is fronting @ 2 NOW, i don’t care if he is fit enought to stop an outsurance truck! He is not fit for a Test hooker.
what part of that is ambiguous? If in England the standard is for you Test hookers to only make the fitness levels of Props to play test rugby, that’s you sh*t really… This is SH rugby against the top 2 nations in the world, the supreme manne!
Get it straight
29 Jul 2010, 17:02 pm
@willievz(willievz)-85:
Good point.
29 Jul 2010, 17:05 pm
Anybody that realistically believes that JS should be starting is lying to himself…..the worst lie of all !!!!!
Get over the sentimentality that is clouding your judgement.
In case you have not noticed we are getting hammered with the legendary captain on the field and he is /has been the worst contributor in the last 3 games.
JS should do the right thing and that is to call it a day after the 3N.
This we need him to take us to the WC is sentimental bull sh it and will in fact cost us the WC !!!
29 Jul 2010, 17:06 pm
94. Transformation(Transformation) :
Transsie chill on the agression man. It’s a Thursday afternoon, take a chill pill. Everyone agree’s he is out of shape for Hoomer right now. Even Thompson seems to be fitter – I actually think Thopson played really well for the English in Aus.
Big Hit you have become a real old one of the Saffa boys
I remember a few years back when you were quite a aggressive critic of SA rugby and it was blatently obvious you were a NH man.
29 Jul 2010, 17:07 pm
@David(David)-91: I have no doubt that Pottie could be as good, if not become better.
But just think about the mental aspect – it would be a massive injustice to a fantastic player when asking him to specialise in a trade that is possibly his worst attribute at current.
I would not risk it.
But what do you think about my suggestion regarding the stepping and accelerating 12 as a prospective boon to the SA game?
29 Jul 2010, 17:09 pm
@XV(XV)-92:
that is because watson has the mind of a flyhalf playing in the body of a ……
…of a……
…of a…..
bugger, really battling now
29 Jul 2010, 17:09 pm
96. justrugby(justrugby) :
You need JS at the WC, not taking him will cost you a WC.
and to say that JS is the reason we have been losing is also ridiculous, it has contributed but there are a lot of players that need rest and conditioning and some that need to raise their game and some that are selection mistakes (not including JS being selected)
At a WC you need level heads, JS is the only one that can do that right now for SA. Victor at test level just doesn’t match Smit as a captain
Happy for them to rest Smit after Soweto for the rest of the year.
29 Jul 2010, 17:14 pm
The WC games will nto be as fast as the 3 nations even with the new rules and there will be a lot more set-pieces etc.
The pressure the occasion and the fear of making mistakes will make the games very different to what we see now.
I wouldn;t use a 3 natiosn to judge a WC.
WC’s are won on defense, experience and territory and goal kicking (including drop kicks)
We have those, just make sure they are conditioned as best position come the time
29 Jul 2010, 17:15 pm
This whole we want to be pretty like the AB’s will not win us a WC.
29 Jul 2010, 17:16 pm
@Mike H(Mike H)-97: i’m quite chilled actually… 008 is just a big blinkered Smit sycophant.
i saw a thread where big hit was thrashing the whole notion of sh teams touring in november & calling their clean up of the home unions the ‘grand slam’
he was quite vociferous then.
29 Jul 2010, 17:16 pm
We all know what a disaster it was getting sentimental and handing Makhaya Ntini his 100th cap. He wasn’t up to and we lost the test…
There is no room for sentimentality in sport.
29 Jul 2010, 17:17 pm
103. Transformation(Transformation) :
HAHAHA
Anyway I’m off to play some golf, laters
29 Jul 2010, 17:19 pm
104. fish out of water(fish out of water) :
I still would have given Ntini his 100th cap. Winning a arbitary game is not everything when a guy has been a loyal servant for 10 years or more.
29 Jul 2010, 17:19 pm
@willievz(willievz)-98:
I agree, it seems to be a forgotten skill. You know, I hear JWs adage that defence wins WCs often stated here, as if it was some form of divine directive. The reality is that defence (bad) can lose WCs, which is a different perspective. When you look at the two Aussie WC wins, sure they had a superb defence, but they also had a great attack. We seem to select our centres more for their size as defenders, as if knocking the the ball carrier into another dimension is the sole criteria. It’s a cop out. The Aussies relied on their defensive organisation and technique to do the job, not the physical strength of the player.
29 Jul 2010, 17:19 pm
@Mike H(Mike H)-100:
John has been shocking in the 3N ………..it is a slap in the face to other leaders to say that JS is the only one that can lead the Boks, what a load of bollocks !!!
By accommodating JS you are either going to be keeping Bissy out or Guthro out (god forbid they use him as a 3), this means the best in their positions won’t be playing, something you can ill afford at a WC, no player can be “accommodated” at a WC !!
JS has 2 WC’s which he has played in……… very few make it to a 3rd and the way he is physically I cannot see him making it !!
29 Jul 2010, 17:20 pm
John is just tired mentally and physically AND he’s out of shape. He has plenty of heart, but when you only succeed in 66% of the tackles you attempt there is definitely a problem.
In the 2nd test against NZ he made 4 tackles and missed 5! To put that in perspective Gurthro managed 10 and missed 1!
29 Jul 2010, 17:22 pm
@Yetirat(Yetirat)-90:
Sggies isn’t unjured, he’s out for at least 6 weeks.
29 Jul 2010, 17:22 pm
@Transformation(Transformation)-94: we agree on Smit’s fitness for hooker, I was just pointing out he can have a place in the team.
I think it is fair to say we don’t expect as much dynamism at 2 and do generally look upon a hooker as a prop who can throw but perhaps that’s changing. Steve Thompson was fat all last season and was limited to the bench, it was only when he was back up to speed that he was granted a start at 2. Most people didn’t want him near the team, he was judged as too old etc but MJ saw he still had the talent and I think he’ll be up there with Bismarck as the world’s best hooker by the end of the year. It pays to keep faith in the talent even if it is the wrong side of 30.
@Mike H(Mike H)-97: lol yeah I recall, I think time on keo has mellowed my outlook
29 Jul 2010, 17:22 pm
Sorry, Steggies.
29 Jul 2010, 17:25 pm
WC Best possible 22 imo (squad of 30)
1 John Smit
2 Bismark du Plessis
3 Guthro Steenkamp (think he can do 3 as well?)
4 Bakkies Botha (he will get over his klein mannetjie sindroom)
5 Victor Mattfield
6 Heinrich Brussouw
7 Juan Smith
8 Schalk Burger
9 Fourie du Preez
10 Morne Steyn
11 Brian Habanna
12 Jean de Villiers
13 Jacque Fourie
14 JP Peterson
15 Frans Steyn
16 Jannie du Plessis
17 CJ van der Linde
18 Danie Russouw
19 Pierre Spies
20 Ruan Pienaar
21 Butch James
22 Gio Aplon
Bissie and John are the hookers (if bissie gets injured, john can move…but think bissie can finish 99% of games)
CJ can cover both sides, and if bissie off: guthro to 1
Pakslae covers lock (and 8 if needs) and pierre loosies, schalla can move around also
Ruan can do 9, 15, 10
Butch can do 10, 13
Gio can do 11/14/15. If centre goes, frans can move in.
REST of squad:
BJ Botha
Chilliboy Ralepelle
Andries Bekker
Dewald Potgieter/Francois Louw/Deon Stegman (wild card #1 slot)
Francois Houghard
Juan de Jongh
Lionel Mapoe
Zane Kirchner/Wynand Olivier (wild card #2 slot)
29 Jul 2010, 17:26 pm
I reckon give Smit a first half run at Soccer City, then replace him with Chilli for the rest of the 3N.
29 Jul 2010, 17:28 pm
@David(David)-107: agree david, also agree with your point about the best centre combination being that of a distributor and a carrier paired together. Not sure why SA coaches don’t note the success other nations have with this approach and follow suit. They seem to want to pick players to crash over the opposition and if that doesn’t work they’re rendered useless.
29 Jul 2010, 17:29 pm
108. justrugby(justrugby) :
Real MAdrid tried to have the best in all positions and they sucked ever since.
it’s not necessarily about the best in the position. You tell me who would lead the Boks to the WC2011 better than SMit?
Ok off to golf.
29 Jul 2010, 17:29 pm
@OUToftheBOKS(OUToftheBOKS)-113:
sorry…meant butch can do 10, 12
29 Jul 2010, 17:30 pm
@David(David)-114: sentimental 100th Test cap like Percy who was playing utter kak at the time and teh team got nilled @ Newlands. When will we ever learn?!
29 Jul 2010, 17:34 pm
@Big Hit(Big Hit)-115:
JdeV had his attacking flair curbed by JW, in my opinion. The previous combo of de Wet and Joubert was similar to Nonu and Conrad, so we have tried it successfully. It’s just that when it comes to the crunch our provincial selectors go for size. The current Sharks line up for Saturday shows the Kiwi influence with Lambie at 12. PdeV seems to be a proponent of a skillfull distributor at 12 or 13 and Muir was a superb distributing centre in his day, so all is not lost.
29 Jul 2010, 17:34 pm
Big Hit and Mike H solutions…..
Fark me,, this is actually scary….
Take the best loosehead [ guthro ] and play him at tighthead.
Take the kak fat hooker [ smit ] and play him at loosehead.
Fark me Mary!!!!!
Now see the normal okes reaction….
Take the best Lossehead and play him at loosehead.
Take the best hooker and play him at hooker.
take the best tihjthead and play him at tighthead.
Bobs your aunt.
29 Jul 2010, 17:35 pm
@Transformation(Transformation)-118:exactly….i was there….he couild not even run!!!
29 Jul 2010, 17:35 pm
@Transformation(Transformation)-118:
Why not, give him his 40 minutes and 100th cap, we’ve thrown the 3N anyway. It’s the least we can do.
29 Jul 2010, 17:38 pm
@Mike H(Mike H)-106: well that says it all…
you a farken amateur poser my man.
Alex Fergusonand Mourinho would choke themselves before such gross sentimentality.
I say it again….most saffas still think like amateurs.
29 Jul 2010, 17:39 pm
@David(David)-122: stuff thst David….that cap is not a right.
He does not deserve it….he has made buggerall attempt to get in shape.
29 Jul 2010, 17:40 pm
@grant10(grant10)-120:
Smit has served us well. I think it’s a bit much to refer to him as a “kak fat hooker”. At least show some respect for what he’s done for the Boks.
29 Jul 2010, 17:40 pm
@grant10(grant10)-120:
…that should be the case.
Bissie and Guthro are the best in their positions.
Smit was kuk at 3, and from what i recall at the sharks, he was not too bad at 1 (when him, bissie and jannie did very well).
What I think about guthro: class enough to be as good at 3 as at 1.
Perfect world: bissie at 2 and guthro at 1. But although I believe also smit is not the best in ANY position…this way the as my team above, we limit the damages of not playing best players…and again, hate to admit it, but i believe we cant drop smit now as captain (1.5 years too late for that). Or will you rather play Guthro, bissie, jannie/Bj? I really think guthro is good enough to mix it up both sides
29 Jul 2010, 17:44 pm
@David(David)-107: Very good point David. I mentioned in the last few weeks that we lost the games against NZ partly because of bad offense, and not only poor defense.
By running skew / diagonal lines in the backlines, our centres and wings collided with defense on their wrong shoulders, preventing them to place or syphon clean ball back to supporting players. The result was that our support arrived from the side or players holding on. The problem with support arriving on the side is not only that it is illegal and punishable, but if left unpunished, those defenders are with their backs to the ball and unbalanced for the next defensive move. The worst case scenario, however, was quick turnover ball, where the AB outside backs exposed us in the wider channels.
The difference between their back play and ours were remarkable. Our centres and 10 merely pass the ball, while the ABs distribute the ball, creating space and therefore attacking options for the next receiver.
On defense, however, we made crucial mistakes too, especially by allocating too many numbers at collision points in later phases. The players who were supposed to guard the fringes also were sucked in, and in many cases, these include a center (particularly a problem if a center guards the blindside, which means a forward will be in the backline on defense covering the openside regardless if the center is sucked in or not).
Because players were sucked in, an overlap became the norm on the AB ball, further compounded by our wings shooting up for the intercept and to try and cramp the space of the players looking to utilise that overlap.
Centres have vision on defense and is in a perfect position to decide whether or not to get involved in a collision or whether to guard the fringes. This is why I always cry out for a defensive organiser in the forwards (ideally the
and a defensive organiser in the backline (the centres).
So to cut a long story short, did the bigger centre(s) do the job?
29 Jul 2010, 17:46 pm
@David(David)-125: like the respect he showed Luke??
Stuff that…..
29 Jul 2010, 17:47 pm
@willievz(willievz)-127: “next defensive move” should read next supporting or assisting move.
29 Jul 2010, 17:47 pm
@OUToftheBOKS(OUToftheBOKS)-126: guthro will be killed at 3…
Smit was
Heinke vd merwe was
Os would not even contemplate trying 3….its insane my man…insane.
29 Jul 2010, 17:48 pm
anyway….drinks with mates
cheers
and for the love of the angels catch a wake up and smell the coffee Plod.
29 Jul 2010, 17:49 pm
@grant10(grant10)-123: guys like mikeh will stop supporting boks once plod retires…they’re so sentimental….
29 Jul 2010, 17:51 pm
@grant10(grant10)-130:
Im not too jacked up when it comes to prop play…dont think anyone is except if you are actually a big ol guy that spent time there!
But agree…best players will have to play in position, BUT we need smit. Cant lose Bissie or Guthro…only other option then is to play smittie at 3 again…he didnt do that badly there last year, did he…not worse than EOYT other props (clubs made us look kuk then)….so, for me, it is a decision where the effect of accommodation plod will lead to least damages! unfortunately. they should have made someone else captain last year allready…
29 Jul 2010, 17:52 pm
@grant10(grant10)-131:
Have a good one!
29 Jul 2010, 17:52 pm
@willievz(willievz)-127:
Yup, I was also tearing my hair out at the way we just aimlessly shovelled the ball down the backline.
On another point. The one player I was sad to see leave SA was Ernst Joubert. He’s big and fast while also being an intelligent player, the perfect replacement for Juan or even at 8.
29 Jul 2010, 17:53 pm
@Mike H(Mike H)-106: An arbitrary game perhaps but a test that in hindsight we could of and should of won in Ntini didn’t leak over 100 runs per wicket.
Pick on form and form alone – and I will say again sentimentality has no place sports.
If Smit isn’t good enough – which at the moment he isn’t – he should not play.
29 Jul 2010, 17:53 pm
Prove me wrong….
But I can almost guarantee you…
that no matter what you say…
I’m convinced that ending your sentences with ‘…’ …
And writing in one line paragraphs…
Is a sign of…
neurosis…
29 Jul 2010, 17:56 pm
@RedMan(RedMan)-137:
29 Jul 2010, 17:59 pm
@David(David)-135: He is one of my favourites too, unlucky not to have a Bok blazer in his cupboard.
29 Jul 2010, 18:05 pm
@willievz(willievz)-139:
He seems to be doing incredibly well at Sarries. I just wonder whether Johan Rupert will be good to his promise of giving young Saffas experience that they can bring back home?
29 Jul 2010, 18:06 pm
But back to the topic:
We need to ask ourselves one fundamental question:
How crucial is Smit for the team?
Considering that most of the players in the Bok outfit are already an experienced bunch and do not need a father to change their nappies, I think they will be fine without him.
However, I do appreciate that the concerns are really regarding external liaison and media relations. Captaining the Boks is a completely different animal than captaining another country. But someone needs to it when he is no longer there.
Perhaps I am just silly but I think his importance to the overall cause is overstated.
But I would still pick him if fit, on playing abilities.
29 Jul 2010, 18:11 pm
@willievz(willievz)-141: i quite enjoy your pragmatism dude…
29 Jul 2010, 18:29 pm
Well it will take some time before Bismark hits top form i would think after this injury. Three home wins and the media would back off a bit….until the end if year tour….that’s when the heat will really be on Smit because then you will have both players available for selection.
29 Jul 2010, 18:34 pm
@willievz(willievz)-141: if i recall correctly i think it was smit who once said…captaining SA is more than just flipping a coin and talking to the referees once in a while. I agree with you….id also pick him if fully fit…and right now its looking like a big if
29 Jul 2010, 18:43 pm
This is starting to piss me off a little bit. Bismarck is not THAT good a hooker. If you take away his physical presence, he is a pretty useless hooker.
You Bismarck fanatics say his scrummaging is too good to pass up. But he was in the team last year and scrumming was our biggest concern? And if you wanna blame the props, then you’re still proving my point. If the scrum is gonna suck with or without him, then why not have a more skilled hooker?
Enter Gary Botha. By a looooong way the best hooker in the country. He has every single base covered. He’s got good leadership, brains, temprement and amazing talent. In terms of play, he can tick all the boxes. He is good at the rucks, at the scrums, throwing in the line out, in open play and his defence is absolutely superb.
Bismarck is seemingly incapable of throwing the ball in straight which reall annoys me but also, I am sick and tired of dirty players. If Bismarck isn’t off the field with a red or yellow, he’s either banned or injured. The Boks need someone more stable and reliable and that is Gary Botha.
Still, I think it’s disgusting that we’re even still discussing John Smit’s involvment in the team. He is absolutely useless, full stop. He is an over rated captain as well. He doesn’t even deserve to be playing for the Sharks. Every part of his game is poor. The one thing he was good at was throwing in the line out but now even that’s for ****.
1. Gary Botha
2. Schalk Brits
3. Tiaan Liebenberg
4. Bismarck du Plessis
And John Smit is MUCH further down the list
29 Jul 2010, 18:51 pm
Glad to see Bismarck back.
For my money he and John are two completely different hookers and given what I saw in Bismarck’s absence no other hooker has the same impact he has.
Reference to Liebenberg and Strauss specifically.
29 Jul 2010, 18:53 pm
A choice of Bismarck and Smit at hooker is like ’08 with McCain and Obama. Two pretty kak choices
29 Jul 2010, 19:01 pm
@rugbywriter(rugbywriter)-147:
Are you in the States?
29 Jul 2010, 19:02 pm
@David(David)-148: Nah I just really love politics. Are you?
29 Jul 2010, 19:59 pm
The Boks management seem intent on playing over the hill players.
Which means in 14 months they will be even further over the hill.
Grant’s 120 is the sensible approach: pick your best tighthead and play him at tighthead; pick your best hooker, play him at hooker ….. go all the way through the team picking the best player at that position.
29 Jul 2010, 20:04 pm
@willievz(willievz)-141: If he is so important why have we been creamed the last 3 games?
Personally I think we have bigger issues than John Smit at hooker.
Like no game-plan, slow back line, missing tackles and kicking aimlessly, and choosing players out of position.
29 Jul 2010, 20:08 pm
@rugbywriter(rugbywriter)-145: I agree. Bismark is not a great scrummager, can hardly throw the ball in straight and is second only to Bakkies Botha in terms of incredible dofness.
Gary Botha is currently our best hooker in all aspects.
Gary Botha
Tian Libenberg
Willie Wepenaar
John Smit
Adriaan Strauss
Bismarck
Maku
Chili
29 Jul 2010, 20:14 pm
talking kak again,
Gary Botha just another overrated poefta Bully bumkin useless show pony like Pierrie Spiesie and Meisiekind Olivier
No place and no need for another has been show pony schmuck dummy d!ckhead to come f’ck up the rest of the works.
These are the hookers needed for Bok’s causes to evolve
Liebenberg
Burden
Chili
Deon Fourie
Bismark
Brits
Strauss
Gary Botha and John Smit are a dead end breed get shot of them before they get shot of you.
29 Jul 2010, 20:14 pm
This from News24:
The Springboks returned from Australia this week to newspaper stories alleging there was a split between De Villiers and assistant coaches Gary Gold and **** Muir over the team’s style of play.
Gold, however, said there was no truth in them.
“We believe we are all on the same page. We sit down every Sunday night after a game and decide, with the very senior players, on the way forward for the next game, and we always emerge with a united front,” Gold said.
And here I was thinking that we had a backroom staff of tactical experts pouring over video clips of other teams months in advance, and together with the 3 coaches discussing weeks in advance of a particular game the strategy, tactics and game plans for each other teams’ strengths and weaknesses…
And here is confirmation that they all get together in a big huddle a week before the game and debate how they are going to play!
This smacks of amateurism.
29 Jul 2010, 20:17 pm
@skopskiet(yliad)-153: Everyone has an opinion just like everyone has an ar sehole. But your opinion is really that of an ar sehole:
Burden
Chili
Deon Fourie
Bismark
Brits
For goodness sake. Pathetic.
And to get it out of the way: sodashmoe f’kadilly wannkwat wantnot a dilly.
29 Jul 2010, 20:17 pm
@wooden spoon(wooden spoon)-154: Hello Spooner. Back in Brummiedom.
29 Jul 2010, 20:20 pm
@wooden spoon(wooden spoon)-154:
‘And here is confirmation that they all get together in a big huddle a week before the game and debate how they are going to play!
This smacks of amateurism.’
Not sure whether it indicates amateurism but that’s how Woodward, Robinson and the senior England players (MJ, Dawson, Tindall, Greenwood and Wilko) managed things back in ’02/’03
29 Jul 2010, 20:21 pm
@skopskiet(yliad)-153: You forget the legendary Derek Kuun as well.
29 Jul 2010, 20:24 pm
@Big Hit(Big Hit)-157: where is the tactical analysis? Who is watching clips of the opposition to pick up trends and new patters to exploit? Who is working on game plays?
But more importantly, who is telling this to the players? Because if the players are telling themselves how to play, then no-one is doing the above (given they are too busy training and playing).
@SodaJoe(SodaJoe)-156: Hi Joe
Yep, I make an appearance now and again, but not as much as I used to. Things have changed here.
29 Jul 2010, 20:25 pm
@skopskiet(yliad)-153: agree on Spies, Olivier and Botha, based on current form and past test form they look like S14 level players, Spies might have some value as an impact player or perhaps wing but he’s falling short of the mark required from a test 8.
Liebenberg should perhaps have been given a run out at hooker to see if he’s up to it, he was impressive in the S14.
29 Jul 2010, 20:27 pm
@wooden spoon(wooden spoon)-159: judging by his website blog contributions Gold does think about tactics. No idea about PDV and Muir but I’m sure they’re not sitting around twiddling their thumbs.
29 Jul 2010, 20:29 pm
Best Bok team if all available:
15 Steyn
14 JP Pietersen
13 Fourie
12 De Villiers
11 Habana
10 Steyn
9 Du Preez
8 Van Niekerk
7 Smith
6 Brussow
5 Bekker
4 Rossouw
3 Botha
2 Du Plessis
1 Steenkamp
29 Jul 2010, 20:30 pm
Sodashmoe let me tell you something for free
Gary Botha and John Smit are the 2 worst candidates you can possibly pick to take to the world cup
If you haven’t woken to reality yet you dumb schmuck fools will go down in a heap of overrated trash
Can see the dismal dumb delinquent saffa brains freeze into stagnation just like they were in 07 before E.Jones breathed some life into them dreary f’ck’d up deluded brains.
Can’t believe these twat idiots can’t see sh’t for trees.
Burden, Liebenberg, Chili, Bismark, Fourie that is the way to go, the other way is suicide and up the stuffed up creek without a paddle.
29 Jul 2010, 20:30 pm
@Big Hit(Big Hit)-161: before anything else Jake White was employed by the Boks solely as a technical/video analyst.
Who is doing this job now?
29 Jul 2010, 20:33 pm
Gary Botha is just like Gaffie Du Toit and Wynand Olivier.
Not cut out for international rugby.
29 Jul 2010, 20:33 pm
Thank you BH its always the rational objectivity that comes from afar to save these deluded saffas from their own ingrained stupidity.
29 Jul 2010, 20:36 pm
@skopskiet(yliad)-166: so who was the brains behind the idea of playing Kankowski at 7 against Pocock?
Or did that come to someone as a bright idea mid thumb twiddle?
29 Jul 2010, 20:38 pm
what tactical rationale was disseminated by the coaching staff for the loose forward trio of Spies, Kanko and Burger? Any idiot can tell you it wouldn’t work, purely because similar combos have tried and failed in the past.
Don’t even get me started on carthorse JDV on the wing. Tactical genius whoever came up with that one.
29 Jul 2010, 20:41 pm
Anyway, I’m out.
29 Jul 2010, 20:51 pm
the tactical rationale that played Kankowski, Spies and Burger together is the same idiotic saffa rationale that dumb is clever and big is better, and fast is furious and Achilles got no arrows in his heels so nothing to fear.
They played Spies, Kanko and Burger in Cape Town 08, guess what happened then? – 19-0 – thats what, so they tried it again because they thought the speed of Kanko and Spies would counter the quality and combined pack breakdown attack of Elsom, Pocock and Brown.
We missing Brussow big time, and today a fast open side is paramount, Burger is a big ball carrier, never was a 6, should never have been played at 6, You can all thank the genius of one Jake White for bamboozling and confusing your brains to ever think he was.
As to the other 2 Kanko and Spies, two poefta show pony prima donnas of the utmost caliber you have yet to meet on a rugby field, these two are the most over hyped overrated flash in the pan flash Gordon’s you ever going to find anywhere in world rugby, they both should be rated about 6th or 7th on the list of effective loose forwards in international rugby, or in this country, show ponies supreme, sooner we drop these two off the radar the sooner we start coming out this delusional spiral to nowhere.
29 Jul 2010, 20:52 pm
I never said anything about Spies. I agree that he and Olivier suck. Not Gary Botha though. Gary Botha is an outstanding hooker. Seriousl, name one short coming in his game
29 Jul 2010, 20:57 pm
My team if ALL available
1. CJ
2. Gary Botha
3. BJ
4. Bekker
5. Victor
6. Brussow
7. Burger
8. Rossouw
9. du Preez
10. Steyn
11. Hougaard (If Habana doesn’t regain his form)
12. Jean
13. Fourie
14. van den Heever/Aplon
15. Steyn
16. Schalk Brits
17. WP. Nel
18. Juan (Rossouw covering lock)
19. Flo
20. Sarel Pretorious
21. Butch
22. Habana(If not starting)/Viljoen
29 Jul 2010, 20:57 pm
And to think these idiotic fools said to themselves, we got Spies and Kanko vying for the No.8 berth, the two bestest fastest big breek prima donnas of all time, so Joe van Niekerk and Luke Watson don’t feature in our thinking.
Since we dropped Van Niekerk and Watson from the trio in 08 we gone steadily in reverse, from a win in Dunedin with those two performing to 3 losses in Perth, Cape Town and Durban in 08, and then the rest is history with only Brussow the difference between the same dumb schmuck delinquent nonentity of a loose forward challenge in 09, thank God schalk gouged Fitzgeralds eyes else we’d never have known anything else, to again nothing nienta, nada, niks, fokol, zilch, in 2010 with Burger, Louw, Spies, Kankowski.
29 Jul 2010, 20:58 pm
@rugbywriter(rugbywriter)-171:
think the fact that he couldn’t even make an impression at harlequins pretty much sums him up
29 Jul 2010, 21:02 pm
Gary Botha is another Spies, Meisiekind mediocrity waiting to unleash its nonentity on the world stage.
Go ahead play him in the Bok team and watch them disintegrate worse than with J. Smit at the helm.
Play Gary Botha, Spies, Olivier in the world cup team and kiss any chance of success goodbye right here right now. Go ahead you reckon you got vision to spare then kiss your bokkie teams dream hope to sleep right now. Play GB and go agterend voort to nowhere in one hell of a hurry.
29 Jul 2010, 21:07 pm
@skopskiet(yliad)-175: Jeez Bru. Exagerate much? Saying it would be worse with Botha at hooker? Come on man. Did Gary Botha try f’ck your wife?
29 Jul 2010, 21:19 pm
habana is a quota ..he’s been k@kker the whole year than meisiekind..he is lucky PDV is of the same colour .. bring back Markgraaf!!! …
29 Jul 2010, 21:19 pm
@SodaJoe(SodaJoe)-158:
the gold medal lamp post licker
@skopskiet(yliad)-175:
hi skoppie, hope life is treating you well in the fairest southern peninsular.
one week left before i take some home leave – can’t wait – starting to get ratty with some of my staff
29 Jul 2010, 21:20 pm
Problem with most rugby doose in this country is they can’t see sh’t for trees, they simply dumb schmuck deluded like idiots with brainless capacities. These are those that believe idiots such as Gary Botha or Pierre Spies or Meisiekind Olivier or even Morne Steyn and Victor Matfield and Fourie du Preez and Frans Steyn are God’s gift to SA rugby.
They firmly believe in their bones that without these neanderthal’s in the team we are doomed to extinction, while it is precisely the other way around. Its get shot of the neanderthal’s and then you stand a chance, cling to the dismal delinquent incapacitated dead end thinking that the neanderthal represents and then go down clutching at your neanderthal conviction.
I’m telling you that by playing glory boys Spies, Botha and Olivier you going down, but if you simply unable to realize that much then play these neanderthal’s and don’t come crying when your hero’s get shown up for the poefta prima donna’s they actually are. Like Spies and Olivier have already done ad infinitum.
29 Jul 2010, 21:23 pm
Bismarck all is forgiven, please come back and save us
and retire John Smit
29 Jul 2010, 21:24 pm
sounds good Charo, you coming this direction at all?
29 Jul 2010, 21:27 pm
@rugbywriter(rugbywriter)-172:
Bismarck is by far the best hooker in the country
Gary Botha what a joke
Its time to get rid of Schalk Burger
I like the rest of your team
but your reserves suck
29 Jul 2010, 21:33 pm
FOURIE DU PREEZ:
SA Rugby Player of the Year nominee, 2007; SA Rugby Player of the Year, 2006; SA Rugby Young Player of the Year nominee, 2003 & 2004; Vodacom Super 14 Player of the Tournament, 2007; SA Rugby Player of the Year, 2009.
29 Jul 2010, 21:36 pm
@skopskiet(yliad)-181:
not this time mate – want to spend some quality time with my missus and my mates and basically chill.
also have admin issues to attend to – taxman and renew drivers license.
anyway, quiet tonight – keep well and maintain the pressure on the bullyboys
30 Jul 2010, 05:19 am
@SodaJoe(SodaJoe)-152
That list needs a bit of shuffling ie move Gary Down one or two notches and Wepener (albeit he is lost to RSa rugby a few more… then add Deon Fourie, Derek Kuhn and basically even Skipper Bardenhorst before Chilliboy Ralepelle features!
30 Jul 2010, 05:25 am
@wooden spoon(wooden spoon)-154:
“And here I was thinking that we had a backroom staff of tactical experts pouring over video clips of other teams months in advance, and together with the 3 coaches discussing weeks in advance of a particular game the strategy, tactics and game plans for each other teams’ strengths and weaknesses…”
Nope mate… the Boks technical analysts amount to the old logistics manager… no ****!
In 5 mins on TheRugbyClub’s ‘Kafes chalkboard’ Rod has summed up the Bok’s ‘gameplan’ and how to beat them every week and been 100% correct!
30 Jul 2010, 07:01 am
@money_man(money_man)-186:
Yeah, real amateurish compared to Graham Henry waving around a piece of paper with his game plan scribbled on it.
A general discussion on a Sunday evening of what went wrong and what needs to change for the next weeks game isn’t that unusual. Then it’s off to church to pray for divine assistance.
30 Jul 2010, 07:04 am
@David(David)-187:
It’s going to take more than a few prayers to some ‘furfie in the sky’ to save the Boks with this current ‘brains trust’ at the helm…
30 Jul 2010, 07:21 am
The coach will arrogantly hang on to Smit out of principle.
30 Jul 2010, 07:30 am
@Great White Shark(Predawn)-189:
There is a simple solution… boot Snor, Muir and Gold… make Smit the (man manager) get Proudfoot and Rossouw in… and start to assemble a tech analyst, conditioning coach, mind coach into the fold!
30 Jul 2010, 07:38 am
Smit just needs to go on a conditioning program instead of the EOYT. We can’t go to the wc without smit as capt if we want to win
30 Jul 2010, 07:39 am
@money_man(money_man)-190:
Leave Proudfoot where he is.
30 Jul 2010, 07:43 am
@Boksarenumber5(Boksarenumber1)-182: Bismarck by far the best hooker in the country?
Please explain what it is that makes him the best hooker in the country.
Is it the way he can’t go 5 minutes without getting a card? Is it the way he can’t throw the ball straight? Is it the way he stands up in the scrums and concedes penalties? Or is it the way he doesn’t know the rules of rugby? Or is it because he is a walking knock-on?
“Physical Presence” can’t be an excuse anymore for Bismarck to keep making the team.
30 Jul 2010, 07:47 am
@rugbywriter(rugbywriter)-193:
To answer your question from last night, no I live in SA but find US politics fascinating.
30 Jul 2010, 07:48 am
Bismarck is certainly a heck of a lot stronger than Smit. If he ever manages to work on his handling skills and stops infringing he might get a starting place..in The Sharks team.
30 Jul 2010, 07:51 am
Good morning all,
IMo….
Bissie isn’t the best 2 in SA..
he’s the best in the World!
30 Jul 2010, 07:59 am
@Staal(Staal)-196:
And with that statement…..i totally agree.
30 Jul 2010, 08:02 am
@grant10(grant10)-197:
I’d take Mealamu over Bissie any day, and he’s the ABs second choice.
30 Jul 2010, 08:05 am
@Staal(Staal)-196:
Enough said…! These fools rating Gary Botha…Blou Bloed…thats quite sad…even mentioning Derek Kuun as an option makes me sick!
Rugbywriter…did you at all watch any international games last year? Can’t throw in straight? Can’t scrum? Yeah right…and Gary Botha can srcum??? Remember 2006/2007? Gary was second choice then. Pierre got “sick” from the roids, and enter Bismark (JW didnt select 3 hookers in the squad as customary. Then Bismark outclassed Botha COMPLETELY and went to second…Gary to third. And Gary realised this….that he just isn’t that good….and packed his bags for some dosh up north. Now he thinks he can try again…Bismark has shown loyalty to the Boks. He had numerous overseas offers, but stayed loyal. Even with both him and John at the Sharks, he sucked it up, and just played his game. And ousted John. He has had an angry management issue, but that, I believe, he has also outgrown. He is one of the players that demands respect within the entire Bok squad, and definately brings more to the party than his physicallity.
30 Jul 2010, 08:06 am
@David(David)-198:
o my word! Now that’s someone that can’t throw into the line outs…but he is not k a k around the fringes though! Little etertjie!
30 Jul 2010, 08:12 am
@OUToftheBOKS(OUToftheBOKS)-200:
He’s a similar type of player to Bismark but with more finesse and brains.
30 Jul 2010, 08:21 am
@David(David)-201:
I’ve never rated him on throwing in (Mealamu)…but I would not be able to throw into the line out either if I saw mattfield and baxxies in front of me…kry sommer die horries…but everytime he freaken starts looking up and down and around when he approaches/sneaks up to the ruck, I start sweating…FREAKEN oke scavages and attacks about 30cm above the ground with VERY low centre af gravity…remember once he picked up about 15m from the bok try line and just ran through everything infront of him (and that was about 5-6years ago. every game since then, i stress when his approaching the breakdown and appears that he is going to do the same “pee-dee”
30 Jul 2010, 08:26 am
@OUToftheBOKS(OUToftheBOKS)-202:
You’re quite right about his lineout throwing, but as you say, trying to avoid Matfield and our other jumpers is always going to screw up the oppositions throw ins.
30 Jul 2010, 08:55 am
@OUToftheBOKS
2006 was 4 years ago. You can not use something that happened then to decide who the best player is now. In 2006 John was still a good player!
Did YOU happen to watch any rugby last year? Go back and watch the Lions series and keep count of how many times Bissie didn’t throw straight. Then watch the tri nations and keep count of his penalties.
I tell you what, if Bissie worked on his throwing and went 5 games without giving away a penalty, I wouldn’t mind seeing him in the team. Also is handling is atrocious. Never have I seen so many knock-ons by an individual.
And really he doesn’t know the rules of rugby. He just flies into the rucks wrecklessly, he tackles high and doesn’t scrum correctly.
This is 2010 not 2006. Give Gary Botha the Springbok jersey and then see if you still want your ***** Bismarck du Plessis. When you’re done sucking his ****, maybe you should watch some rugby
30 Jul 2010, 09:46 am
@rugbywriter(rugbywriter)-204:
Calm down boy, insults will not bring you anywhere in life…throwing comments around about f ing someone else wife and now this sucking **** etc…pathetic little man. Rugbywriter…
Are you one of those die hard bulls…im i wrong? as posted by someone earlier…spies, meisiekind and gary botha…same boat.
Doesnt seem that we were watching the same games then…lions series: he was one of the stand out players, IMO. And tri nations: agree that he might have conceded some penalties…but then again…how many penalties did McCaw concede in the games we played now? Do you not agree he probably made us look like boys, although conceding penalties? wasnt he one of the best players on the park, although conceding those penalties? Did any of bissie’s penalties cost us any games last year? How many valuable steals did Bismark make during the Tri nations last year?
Gary Botha is an opportunist. thinks he can go away and earn the dosh, and then he deserves to come back and be a bok…come on man! Sure, he is a good player, but has not conviced me that he is better than Bismark, or Liebenberg for that matter.
Your insults wont work here, unlike with your own wife. Twit
30 Jul 2010, 15:18 pm
hi all
a few good comments, i personally will take this team to the 2011 wc
Coach: Heynek Meyer
Assistant Coaches: Alister Coetzee , Plumptree , OS Du Rand as scrum coach, Vlok Cilliers – kiking coach, eddie jones and jake white as technical
Team
1.Steenkamp
2.Bissie
3.CJ
4.Roussouw
5.Matfield
6.Brussouw
7.Potgieter
8.Spies
9.FDP
10.M . Steyn
11.G V.D Heever
12.J de Jong
13.J Fourie
14.G Aplon
15.F Steyn
16.Beast
17.J Smit
18.Bekker
19.F Louw
20.F Houghaard
21.J L Potgieter
22.J De Villiers
23.BJ
24.G Botha
25.D Potgieter
26.Kanko
27.B James
28.Habana
29.S Burger
30.Meisiekind ( Someone to carry FDP bags)
30 Jul 2010, 20:24 pm
@David(David)-198: I wouldn’t, Mealamu can excel in an open game, BDP can shine whether it’s a tight tear up or an open running affair. In my opinion he’s the world’s premier hooker.
30 Jul 2010, 20:28 pm
@Big Hit(Big Hit)-207: Well said
Bismarck is the man
30 Jul 2010, 21:19 pm
204. RUGBYWRITER(RUGBYWRITER) :
July 30th, 2010 at 8:55 am
@OUToftheBOKS
Geez that is a bleak assessment of Bismarc. Personally i think has been the best hooker of recent times in the world. Are you a bulls fan?
30 Jul 2010, 21:32 pm
@rugbywriter(rugbywriter)-204: Saw Gary play in London, he was average, small, limited in scrumming and not better than Bismarck
Have your say
You must be logged in to post a comment.