Swallow your pride, Pete
29 Jul 2010
JON CARDINELLI says the Bok coach won’t find a better fullback than Frans Steyn between now and the 2011 World Cup.
The Springbok coaches, selectors and Saru bigwigs will meet to discuss the Frans Steyn issue next week. I have to wonder, what is there to discuss? The Boks can no longer afford to ignore his talents and, as Steyn’s stated on numerous occasions, he’s keen to rejoin the side.
Steyn started the one-off Test against Wales in June. He’s since been cast back into the international wilderness. What was De Villiers’s reason? Steyn was off the pace because he’d played all of one season in northern hemisphere club competitions for Racing Metro.
Meanwhile, De Villiers has failed to find a good option at fullback. Zane Kirchner was ordinary on the 2009 end-of-year tour to Europe, and while he’s produced some determined showings in the 2010 Tri-Nations, it’s clear he’ll never be a factor at Test level.
At 23, Steyn has won a World Cup, a series against the British & Irish Lions, a Tri-Nations crown and a Currie Cup. He’s played 37 times for South Africa, starting 20 Tests. In the matches he’s started, the Boks have won 17 and lost only three. Included in those starting wins are the last six 2007 World Cup Tests, four 2009 Tri-Nations games and the first two Lions fixtures.
You can’t compare Steyn to Kirchner or any other South African fullback option. He has the all-round game the Boks require. His powerful boot has become so vital to the Boks’ line-kicking game, and he’s able to kick those record-breaking penalties from within his own half. As seen by his recent exploits in France, he’s also capable of nailing some outrageous drop-goals from 60m out.
Jake White deployed Steyn at centre in the 2007 World Cup in order to extract value from his formidable stature, but the man also provides a useful running option from the back. While Kirchner lacks attacking incision, Gio Aplon is renowned for those gliding runs from the deep. In comparing Aplon and Steyn, you have to ask whether Aplon’s primary threat trumps Steyn’s all-round value. And can you ignore the fact that despite his age, Steyn has won the big Tests for South Africa and has an overall win ratio of 75%? Obviously not.
Conrad Jantjes recently began his comeback to rugby, and after speaking to him, I don’t think the Boks should expect him to be Test ready until 2011. He suffered a broken leg in May 2009 and is still not completely over his injury. He spoke about this year’s Currie Cup as part of his rehabilitation, and it may be some time before he can go flat out.
Perhaps a strong showing in the 2011 Super 15 will bring Jantjes back into Bok contention, but for the moment, it wouldn’t be fair to consider him and option.
If De Villiers needs to make a rugby decision, he should bring Steyn back for the home leg of the Tri-Nations and pick him for the Grand Slam tour. Steyn’s spent a year in northern conditions and his knowledge thereof will be an asset.
But the relationship between the Bok coach and Steyn has been on the rocks since the player announced his move to France last year. There’s been little communication between the two, and although De Villiers released a statement this May claiming they’d resolved their differences, his claim that Steyn was off the pace and his refusal to pick Steyn for more than one Test speaks volumes.
Three consecutive Tri-Nations defeats, however, could lead to that pride being placed on the shelf. De Villiers is desperate to save face in this tournament, which is now New Zealand’s to lose. He must reinstate South Africa’s best fullback option, and invest in him for next year’s World Cup.
So come on Pete, stop wasting time. Give the kid a call, and show the faith in him that you showed in 2008 and 2009. Think 17 wins from 20 starts. You won’t be disappointed.
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210 Comments
29 Jul 2010, 10:44 am
What about that cute little mini Monty, he looks ok.
Think the Boks could do with a few more Stormers to be honest.
29 Jul 2010, 10:45 am
Add Steyn,Brussow,FDP and Smith back into the mix and it’s a different team.
29 Jul 2010, 10:47 am
@RugbyRulz(RugbyRulz)-1:
Joe P had a good season. Is he Bok material? I’m not sure.
29 Jul 2010, 10:49 am
Stop the co-ordinated media attack on the Boks by fighting back.
Groundhog day 2006.
Thanks Transformation in finding that article written in 2006.
What pisses me is the Fox machine
could not find any new material.
Shame on the Fox rubgy twats including Marto the ****** and their dirty bok comments.
What was the aussie player doing with his elbow in Schalas throat in an off side position?
I can compliment them on showing Mcacaw kicking Januarie with the studs up and his kick on Danie after he was penalised for off side play.
29 Jul 2010, 10:50 am
call him back pdv and we get walloped again, send his arse back to france! I don’t get why some people are fixated with the idea that because steyn is in the team the Boks will suddenly tackle more, clean out rucks, string a few backline moves that involve the wings coming in at angles to deceive the opposition….
29 Jul 2010, 10:51 am
@KevinRack(KevinRack)-4:
If the Boks win 3 from 3 on home soil (which they should), the media will back off.
It won’t make up for the overseas leg, but it will help.
29 Jul 2010, 10:52 am
Add those players, a ‘WC panel’ to assist the current management team, and we shall have a chance.
29 Jul 2010, 10:53 am
Piet Snor keeps proving he is just another political pawn.. Let’s be serious.
29 Jul 2010, 10:55 am
@Transformation(Transformation)-5:
I think we talking long term Transie.
We need him at 15 for the WC. Trust me, we going to need a couple 55m in the wet to beat NZL/Aus etc in NZL.
If we don’t get him back in the mix now, it’s going to be tricky for him to gel in 2011.
29 Jul 2010, 10:56 am
@Transformation(Transformation)-5:
Exactly!!!!
29 Jul 2010, 10:58 am
6. CenturionShark they wont win or back off
You know in 2006 the quality of the reffing was so poor in the Trinations I nearly had a stroke shouting at the the ref and Richies offside play.
I rememebr 2006 very well cos 1 I broke the remote on my head and secondly I promised and would not watch the SANZOO **** again.
My theory: Ireland to get votes for the next hosting of the WC.
29 Jul 2010, 11:00 am
@CenturionShark (aka LondonShark)(londonshark)-3: Thank you for his name, I couldn’t remember it.
@KevinRack(KevinRack)-4: Getting a bit toey with the big game this weekend and no one to cheer for eh?
What did you think of Kafer’s analysis re Schalla?
29 Jul 2010, 11:00 am
Boks are missing
Beast
Bismark
Bakkies
Juan
Brussow
Du preez
De Villiers
JPP
AND
Frans Steyn
Perspective people.In that list is the world best 2,4,7,9,14(defensively at least with JPP)
29 Jul 2010, 11:00 am
@mshiniwami(mshiniwami)-10:
Yeah look, he won’t make a difference if Smit and co carry on as they are, but let’s get the guy back into the Bok mix.
Zane will never let you down, but will also never win you a WC/3N. An international fullback needs to be a gamebreaker (IMO).
29 Jul 2010, 11:03 am
@KevinRack(KevinRack)-11:
LOL, good points. I think the Boks need this wakeup call. Better now than next year I guess.
The best way to shut an Aussie up is to beat them, 53-8 comes to mind.
29 Jul 2010, 11:03 am
Who said that Transformation?? Who said if Steyn comes back on his own the boks will win? Who said they will tackle better And clear out more ricks etc???
The point is He is an improvement on any 1 currently playing in that team at 15 especially with coaches trying to play a kicking game. He has better defence and is a MUCH harder player to stop or slow down as a ball carrier & ha better overall ball skills.
The point is, in all his time playing fullback or centre he was one he’ll of allot better than the current 15 & 13 at test level.
The poin if ur still battling to grasp this is – he is part of the solution not THE Solution.
29 Jul 2010, 11:04 am
McCaw admits to ‘cheating’
2010-07-28 22:30Email | Print
Richie McCaw (Gallo Images)
Hendrik Cronjé
Bloemfontein – Richie McCaw admitted on Wednesday that he had operated outside the laws of the game against the Springboks on several occasions, but said that it’s all part of rugby.
The All Black captain was penalised five times against the Springboks in Wellington according to website ruggastats.com. This infuriated coach Peter de Villiers and a number of his senior players.
Irishman Alain Rolland was the referee who failed to punish McCaw with a yellow card for his transgressions at the breakdown and will again be the referee when the Boks play the Wallabies at Loftus Versfeld on August 28.
“I made a few mistakes. I think the important thing is to know what you will get away with. But I undoubtedly made mistakes,” said McCaw.
He says he will continue playing his way as long as it does not place pressure on the team.
McCaw also admitted prior to Saturday’s Tri-Nations Test against the Wallabies in Melbourne that he was fortunate not to concede more penalties in Wellington.
He said he would be wary of South African referee Craig Joubert in the weekend’s match against Australia.
McCaw and his counterpart from the Wallabies, David Pocock, nevertheless showed that there is still place for fetching flanks in the mould of Heinrich Brüssow in Test rugby irrespective of law changes.
Brüssow looks set to be available to join the Boks on their end-of-season tour to Europe.
McCaw also noted that Pocock had frustrated the Boks a lot at the breakdowns.
“He had a big impact there. The Springboks were also not as accurate as they would have liked to be,” said McCaw.
Pocock was penalised three times according to ruggastats.com.
29 Jul 2010, 11:04 am
RugbyRulz(RugbyRulz)
Kafe should be a coach, he is smart, unbiased and makes the rest look foolish.
I think Ritchie will get some working over this weekend as his former coach knows all the inside stuff.
I need a break from the footy mate, its reducing my lifespan significantly
29 Jul 2010, 11:05 am
@mshiniwami(mshiniwami)-13:
Good points. We always seem to forget how good JPP is for the Boks (he goes up and down with the Sharks but really steps up for Boks).
He holds his defensive line brilliantly (unlike Habana)and is still quick (unlike Habana).
29 Jul 2010, 11:06 am
16. Guns(Guns) that is one of Tranny weak points
29 Jul 2010, 11:07 am
@Transformation(Transformation)-5: I agree 100%.
I think your buddy Rossi touched on the area that needs improvement… Fitness! The boks look as though the conditioning phase was on the ‘lite’ side and the ‘taper’ was given the nod.
29 Jul 2010, 11:08 am
@CenturionShark (aka LondonShark)(londonshark)-3: i think he is. great defense, good under high ball, great tactical kicking and a strong, elusive runner.
29 Jul 2010, 11:09 am
Fitness? Fatigue more like it!
I think the aussies might roll the Abs this weekend.
29 Jul 2010, 11:09 am
@CenturionShark (aka LondonShark)(londonshark)-14:
Fair enough.
But Steyn is NOT a gamebreaker(in its purest form) from the 15 position.He is a traditional SA 15,brave under high ball,big boot & can kick 60m penalties(that is his unique atrribute).
BUT
He is not a running 15,ala Mils Muliaina-who is the best exponent since Cullen/Latham.He rarely takes ball up to line,breaking tackles,offloading etc.He stands up in tackles well & uses his size well when in trouble in physicality at the back.
But using GAMEBREAKER to describe Steyn at 15 is a wee bit far fetched.
29 Jul 2010, 11:10 am
@CenturionShark (aka LondonShark)(londonshark)-9: new zealand are blikseming us without carl hayman, greg somerville, aaron mauger (retired) and a whole host of other influential players, but in south africa all you ever hear is “oh if fransie was there”
“we need fransie”
29 Jul 2010, 11:11 am
@KevinRack(KevinRack)-23: The Wallabies will give it a good shake. Im sure they would prefer playing at the G. Now that is a stadium.
29 Jul 2010, 11:12 am
@Transformation(Transformation)-25:
No no no Transie, like another blogger said. We are just saying he could be part of the solution, not the solution itself.
29 Jul 2010, 11:13 am
@mshiniwami(mshiniwami)-13:
thats a fair call, within boundaries….
Presumably J.Smith is a ‘blindside flanker’ ?!
and JPP at 14 ?!
BaXXies cant be considered, surely. THIS year ?!
eish.
29 Jul 2010, 11:14 am
@mshiniwami(mshiniwami)-24:
Fair enough,. His 60m kicking is for me his “gamebreaker” skill.
But you right, he’s no Cullen in terms of running.
29 Jul 2010, 11:17 am
@CenturionShark (aka LondonShark)(londonshark)-29: Hmmm, the other day a fellow keolite reckoned Frans kicking 1 in 5 drop goals was enough of a reason to have him in a team. Sorry, I don’t believe the ABs or Wallabies would play him at 15.
29 Jul 2010, 11:18 am
@Black Panther(Black Panther)-28:
Yes of course within boundaries.
Smith as a BLINDSIDE(7 in SA,6 in NZ)
JPP-the state of 14 play worldwide isnt high enough to not have him in conversation plus defensively I think there is no better winger than JP.All round ability & when on form,he is in conversation.
Bakkies,this yr has been rough.But only a fool would discard him when on form.The best 4 in the last 4-5 years EASILY.
29 Jul 2010, 11:20 am
@Guns(Guns)-16: you’re asking me who said it? Jon Cardinelli said dumbarse! Read the fc.king article again and tell me what does “17 out of 20″ imply!
29 Jul 2010, 11:21 am
@KevinRack(KevinRack)-20: YOU are a weak point mate
29 Jul 2010, 11:24 am
I am not sure about Steyn. I think his attack is from the back a bit one dimensional ….
I think Aplon is a better option BUT, will the ABs etc. kick at him?
Also, I think they will hesitate to kick at F Steyn if he hoofs it back and puts REAL pressure on the return counter i.e. they have to start from deeper.
I think a significant factor is the Du Preez/ F Steyn kicking abilities – I do not think we realise HOW good and accurate they actually are are – and also that there was MASSIVE pressure on Morne both from the opposition as well as Januarie – as he was the only recognised kicker.
Januaries selection was probably the single biggest blunder this season …. Pienaar should have played there from the start.
IT would have been a VERY different story in my opinion.
YEP, coaches squarely to blame ESPECIALLY PdV WHO PICKS THE TEAM …..
29 Jul 2010, 11:25 am
@RugbyRulz(RugbyRulz)-30:
Yeah look, he works for the Boks. The way the Boks play the game, he’s our perfect 15.
As for Aussie/NZL,I reckon he would make their starting 15′s (but I would play him at 14 for the All Blacks, Mil’s is playing some brilliant rugga!!!).
He’s the only guy who can give a team 6-12 ‘free’ points per game. (his drops are 1 in 10, but his long range place kicking is worth its weight in gold).
29 Jul 2010, 11:25 am
F.Steyn is a great FH, but I’m definately for keeping it local. Joe Pieterson is miles ahead of 1 dimentional Kirchner. Yes he is no F.Steyn. If we look @ the bigger picture we’ll realise that picking overseas players wnt do SA rugby any good coz youngsters wont have reason to turn down lucrative contracts for not so bad provincial contracts which will impact on all levels of local rugby from varsity level to S14.
What will stop these europeans from takin these boys while they still @ high school like the soccer teams do in S. America.
29 Jul 2010, 11:26 am
@RugbyRulz(RugbyRulz)-21: precisley rulz! But, you tell me where are the articles discussing john’s putrid fitness, his poached lineouts – which last year were the team’s primary source of attack.
All we ever get is how evolved spies is cognitively and how much we need fransie
29 Jul 2010, 11:27 am
@Transformation(Transformation)-32:
17/20 = the number of wins compared to the number of games he’s started for the Boks.
29 Jul 2010, 11:29 am
@Mczana(Mczana)-36:
I hope it is a typo error. You mean a great FB not FH! He is a terrible FH – slow and clumsy.
29 Jul 2010, 11:29 am
@CenturionShark (aka LondonShark)(londonshark)-35: As far as Australia, no way would Deans sacrifice a wing for Frans. The only possible option would be if he was utilised as a crash ball runner… ala Mortlock. But still I don’t think he suits our current game.
The ABs wouldnt entertain the thought of running him on the wing. The loss of pace would stifle their options.
So nope I cant see him making either team, possibly the bench and thats about it. I am dead serious… ask BP if he thinks the ABs would select him.
29 Jul 2010, 11:30 am
Laterz folks
29 Jul 2010, 11:31 am
so a gamebreaker is someone who can “brake” the game by running/attacking only…..
ya right…..
tell the AB’s that….
FS broke their spirits with 2 monsters last year…
(above was posted regarding the “running/attacking gamebreaker” theory)
cheers – i’m out.
Pecanwood here i come.
29 Jul 2010, 11:31 am
Bok XV
1.Guthro
2.Smit/Bismark
3.BJ(dont give him ball to run,assist him in cleaning-too small)
4.Bakkies
5.Matfield
6.Brussow
7.Smith
8.Spies
9.Du Preez
10.Steyn
11.Habana
12.Jean
13.Fourie
14.JPP
15.F.Steyn
16.Bismark/Smit
17.Beast
18.Rossouw
19.Burger
20.Januarie/Pretorius/Pienaar
21.De Jongh/Butch
22.Mapoe/Aplon
-That XV can take on anyone.Any day.
29 Jul 2010, 11:31 am
I think Steyn could become a running fullback. His days playing at centre in the world cup proved how great a runner he can be (and some of his performances over in France). For those that forget, youtube “frans steyn tribute”, should be the top link by CombatBok.
29 Jul 2010, 11:33 am
@Bill Reyts(Gumboots)-39:yeah meant FB.
29 Jul 2010, 11:35 am
Will Steyn want to come back. He must be having the time of his life, earning Euros and pomping the French stukkies.
29 Jul 2010, 11:35 am
@The Analyst(The Analyst)-34:
Fair enough about Januarie on some points,but Pienaar arguably kicked MORE and WORSE vs Aussie in Brisbane.Add his misses for poles when we were 10 points down(4 points lost).
He isnt exactly the answer neither.
29 Jul 2010, 11:39 am
JC you seem to have conveniently omitted the well known issue between PDV and Steyn’s agent?
29 Jul 2010, 11:40 am
@CenturionShark (aka LondonShark)(londonshark)-27: okay sure…pdv bring him back
29 Jul 2010, 11:43 am
@Great White Shark(Predawn)-46: I wouldn’t blame him if he didn’t. Personally, I think he was smart enough to see where Bok rugby was heading and didn’t want to be a part of the mess.
29 Jul 2010, 11:44 am
Francois Steyn is also a good tackler!
Because of his bulk he always get over the advantage line. I remember that very good in from last year British Lions and 3Nations games!
I personally think Kirchner , Joe Petersen and Aplon is good S14 players, but they are not exceptional.
I do not think Joe Petersen is yet there.
Jantjies was very ordinary before his injury and I do not think he will make again a starting bok side – I’ll rather play Aplon.
Op die stadium is ons probleem ons voorspelers wat nie as span saam speel nie (en natuurlik ons onfikse vettie op nr.2)
29 Jul 2010, 11:46 am
@mshiniwami(mshiniwami)-43:I thnk the sooner plod is sent packing the better. He was neva amongst the top 2 @ 2 even @ his peak. My WC 2′s would be Bissie and Tiaan. L.
29 Jul 2010, 11:47 am
Cardinelli’s right. Frans Steyn’s the best 15 by far. Just don’t pick the kid at centre — he’s totally allergic to passing.
29 Jul 2010, 11:48 am
Swallow your pride, Pete.
And while you’re at it…
Hold your tongue.
And better yet…
Fall on your sword.
29 Jul 2010, 11:48 am
I think there are two many chiefs and two many lame and lazies in the Boks team at the moment.
1. Beast
2. Tiaan Liebenburg – We need that lunatic Bismark back desperately
3. Who cares, it’s a prop
4. Vermeulen – The way the game is going with no kicking and hardly any line outs why not stick in two ferocious loose forwards? They can both jump or be thrown in the air by the fat props if need be. Will give the props something to do.
5. Juan Smith - Captain ”Hear Hear”
6. Schalk Burger – He just keeps going, has to be there.
7. Keegan Daniel because he cares – We miss Brussouw.
8. Jean Deysel ? Spies for the last 30mins.
9. Ruan Pienaar – Duvenage – jeez we miss the bald oke from Snortoria.
10. Butch - needs to start running straight / Morne Steyn (Morne might need a break and it’s so much fun to watch Butch hurt okes.)
11. Francois Hougaard (The oke was the best wing of the Super 14 by a mile and Habana is the shittest wing in the world at the moment)
12. Juan De Jong – Devilliers for last 20 mins – For farks sake no more Bon Jovi
13. Jacque Fourie
14. Gerhard Van Den Heever (Mean lighty and we have no one else) Whens JP back?
15. Patrick Lambie ( the kid is the future)or Habana when reconditioned. Maybe play Frans on his good day. Seems to have 1 good 3 bad. It’s just a cycle I will pick it for Snor if he wants.
29 Jul 2010, 11:49 am
Still there, Pete.
Oh well, do us a favour then please.
Drop Spies, Januarie and Olivier.
29 Jul 2010, 11:50 am
I really rated Pienaar but he shies away from contact
Hougaard or SPretorius
Shame about smokin Joe petersen he is both a great kicker and attacker probably one of our better all round fullbacks
29 Jul 2010, 11:51 am
1. Mtawarira
2. Smit
3. Botha
4. Rossouw
5. Matfield
6. Burger
7. Smith
8. Potgieter
9. Hougaard
10. Steyn
11. Habana
12. De Villiers
13. De Jongh
14. Aplon
15. Steyn
16. Du Plessis
17. Van Der Linde
18. Van Der Merwe
19. Louw
20. Pienaar
21. James
22. Pieterson
29 Jul 2010, 11:54 am
43 – spot on. That IS certainly the team you would want starting the games that matter at WC time. This year has been interesting though in that it has exposed the inherent weakness of the “tactical” gameplan of kick and chase, mauling, playing to lineouts, kicking penalties if that top 15 is not there.
Consider exactly who was there last year – very close to the side mentioned above. The REAL issue is that what we have seen on tour this year is very much a potential foretaste of what is to come once many of the star players are gone for good and this brings us to the question of rugby styles. Put simply – a team playing that “tactical” gameplan CAN only function when all the top guys are there. If, however, one moves to a style focussing on ball in hand and speed then a rehaul of the squad would be required and suddenly the the balance changes. You would then need to include the Peter Grants, the de Jonghs. You would absolutely have to have a foraging loosie at all times and a 9 who clears very quickly.
I actually believe we have the players to do that and surprise the world. In fact we SHOULD be developing that “second squad” if you like which plays the “open” game right now while the opportunity exists. I believe that is the real irritation felt amongst Bok supporters right now. Deep down we know we’re missing an opportunity to rebuild.
Our true problem is that we still lack the confidence and self-belief as regards the running game. Our management and players just don’t believe we can take the ABs and Aussies on at their own style and beat them (with possibly **** Muir excepted if you believe the media reports) Until we get over that and back ourselves it’ll be a long haul for bok supporters.
29 Jul 2010, 11:55 am
cheers okes
29 Jul 2010, 11:57 am
puff – You seriously want to leave out Fourie?
9. RP/Hougaard
10. M Steyn
11. Habana
12. JDV
13. Fourie
14. JPP
15. F Steyn
Ahh just looking at that backline makes me feel better.
29 Jul 2010, 11:59 am
The loose forward combo I’d like to see:
6. Brussow
7. Smith
8. Burger
And coming in at a close second:
6. Burger
7. Smith
8. Van Niekerk
29 Jul 2010, 12:00 pm
@puff(puff)-58:
Good side
-Hougaard hasnt played 9 in over 12 months though
-Bring back JPP at 14,play Aplon at 15 (Frans wont be back anytime soon)
-Guthro to stay at 1-has been best SA fwd,best 1 in 3N IMO.Beast off bench-great impact
29 Jul 2010, 12:01 pm
@race of tan(race of tan)-61:
Don’t look at me, mate.
I didn’t spear-tackle an opponent and cop four weeks on the sideline.
The team I highlighted include players who are available to play the ABs at soccer city.
29 Jul 2010, 12:04 pm
PUFF – Ahh yes i forgot ek se!!!
Where on earth is Adi Jacobs?
12. Adi
13. JDV
Would be are best option IMO!!
29 Jul 2010, 12:04 pm
@puff(puff)-62:
Puff…your still on about Big Joe??
The loss in muscle mass,lack of conditioning & fact that there are a few 8′s in SA who are at least in same class at present doesnt bode well for Joe.Plus Welsh test didnt do him no favours.
Needs to come back home to compete for a place in RWC2011
29 Jul 2010, 12:04 pm
PUFF – Inverse funtion:-
12. JDV
13. Adi
29 Jul 2010, 12:04 pm
But since you asked:
1. Mtawarira/Steenkamp
2. Smit
3. Botha
4. Botha
5. Matfield
6. Brussow
7. Smith
8. Burger
9. Du Preez
10. Steyn
11. Habana
12. De Villiers
13. Fourie
14. Pieterson
15. Steyn
16. Du Plessis
17. Van Der Linde
18. Rossouw/Bekker
19. Van Niekerk
20. Pienaar/Hougaard
21. James
22. De Jongh
29 Jul 2010, 12:07 pm
@mshiniwami(mshiniwami)-66:
Would choose Van Niekerk over Spies.
But:
6. Brussow
7. Smith
8. Burger
Would be my first-choice trio.
Burger’s linking and passing game has improved exponentially.
Will need to bring on an 8 with more pace some time in the second half though – this is where Spies would be really effective. But so would Kanko and Van Niekerk.
29 Jul 2010, 12:12 pm
puff – Your loosies are on the money. J Smith would be a good stand in captian when Matfield is rested.
Your team #68 Is probably going to be the Boks RWC2011 team unless Snor has a meltdown, excellent lineup!!
29 Jul 2010, 12:12 pm
@puff(puff)-68:
Smit is a waste of time – Bissy, Tiaan or Gary way better and make Matfield captain.
Botha (4) a waste of time and a walking yellow.
29 Jul 2010, 12:13 pm
Slate – think you are onto something there…Habana to fullback ala Muliaina
29 Jul 2010, 12:13 pm
@puff(puff)-68:
Good side, as long as Smit and Matfield are off at 50/60 mins and the bench is used correctly.
Only issue for me is there isn’t a great deal of pace in that back 3. For wet fields on the EOYT that will be fine though.
29 Jul 2010, 12:16 pm
BILL_REYTS – I still reckong puffs team #68 shold be the blu print Snor needs to work from and decide who needs to be rested for eg:-
Smit
Matfield
And bring in the next in line players accordingley.
White always knew who his first choice 22 players were and he stuck to them vehemently.
Snor needs to follow suit now, and PUFFS team #68 is the bu print he shold be working from and make the changes from that it!!
29 Jul 2010, 12:19 pm
The reason Steyn is precious to the boks is because of his kicking ability. Nothing else in his game (maybe tackling) warrants greatness. That said he IS great for us. Have you noticed how our Australasian counterparts have been kicking the ball straight up-field daring us to counter and we’ve had no answer. Well with Frans there he would just take a drop. The fear of 3 points would put an end to this tactic. So untill we have a springbok side that can actually counter-attack with real venom, Frans Steyn remains a key cog in our ‘attack’.
This said, I don’t think Kirchner has played badly (one of our better backs) and we should give him the rest of the 3N. After all we need a replacement in case Steyn gets injured. Bring back Steyn for the EOYT.
29 Jul 2010, 12:20 pm
@puff(puff)-69:
Fair enough..Spies is rubbish at present
BUT
Do you honestly see Burger as an 8?
29 Jul 2010, 12:20 pm
@race of tan(race of tan)-74:
I actually like his team too. The sooner we realise that Smit is finished the better. Can’t keep a passenger captain on the field anymore. He has been given his chance and is not performing. His leadership has been sorely lacking and by watching the games you would have noticed that Matfield was more of the leader than Smit was as he was panting after twenty minutes. Bakkies must take his package and go play in France. He has no place in this team. Enforcer – he doesn’t understand the role so get rid of him.
29 Jul 2010, 12:21 pm
@mshiniwami(mshiniwami)-76:
No Vermeulen or Alberts. Vermeulen is quicker than most think, so the speed excuse don’t work here. Had the quickest loose trio last week and what happened – they were nowhere.
29 Jul 2010, 12:22 pm
We can argue all day but I guarentee you Spies will start and Smit will be there too.
29 Jul 2010, 12:24 pm
I personally think out best loose trio would be:
Brussow
Smith
Vermuelen
I know Schalk is a great, but he’s not the best at either 6,7 or 8. So play him off the bench to cover all 3. Kanko and Spies aren’t up to this level unless as impact players.
29 Jul 2010, 12:25 pm
Bill Reyts – I actually haven’t been watching the games just highlights on youtube. I thought Gary Botha did enuff in S14 to get a nod at test level and D Roussouw is playing very well at this stage of his career. However when Bakkies is on form is he still the best we have plus he needs gametime. But yes probably Smit needs to be rested or start playing limited game time so PDV can blood another Hooker, we have about 3 now, plus when Bissie the psycho returns he will be the front runner anyway.
29 Jul 2010, 12:27 pm
@race of tan(race of tan)-70:
Still not sure about BJ Botha.
Have yet to see him truly dominate at test level.
Plus I’ve never really seen him being effective in the loose or at ruck time.
Van Der Linde hasn’t had a decent test in the longest time.
Mshini is correct. My hopes re Big Joe is probably wishful thinking on my part.
Jury’s also out on whether James still has what it takes at the top level.
He was awesome at the last World Cup.
But in 2008 he was woeful for the Boks.
Olivier is NOT the answer at 12.
Kirchner isn’t the answer at 15.
I was a Ricky supporter for the longest time, but I am finally convinced that his time is over.
However, I do not agree that the same can be said for John Smit.
And as for those calling him Plod on this site…
29 Jul 2010, 12:27 pm
If we can’t get Frans then I’ll go with Riaan Viljoen. He runs beautifully from the back and his boot is nearly as big as Fransie’s
29 Jul 2010, 12:28 pm
@Ratel Brussow(Morne Steyn is under-rated)-80:
Really good trio that! Bench option also a good one. Spies and Kanko only good for impact in the last 20 mins.
29 Jul 2010, 12:28 pm
@Bill Reyts(Gumboots)-71:
Calling John Smit and Bakkies Botha a waste of time.
You know your rugby.
NOT
29 Jul 2010, 12:28 pm
JC why are who harping on fullback when its the lack of a genuine fetcher in the side that is clearly the major problem and is killing our momentum and defense?
29 Jul 2010, 12:29 pm
@Yetirat(Yetirat)-73:
Fair comments.
29 Jul 2010, 12:34 pm
@Ratel Brussow(Morne Steyn is under-rated)-80:
Vermeulen needs to get the selfishness out of his game.
Reminds me of a young Juan Smith.
But he will evolve.
A similar comment can be made about Jean Deysel.
I’d play Vermeulen ahead of Spies.
29 Jul 2010, 12:35 pm
@puff(puff)-85:
Read my comments Puff – Smit puffs after twenty minutes and his leadership is sorely lacking because of his fitness. He was never the best 2 and you know that. He was in the team for his captaincy. His captaincy now is non existant.
Regarding Bakkies. He is a thug and I will never want him near my team every again. Brain dead and a serial offender.
Bakkies is an embarrassment to rugby and anyone who promotes that knows there rugby – NOT
29 Jul 2010, 12:36 pm
there – their – eish
29 Jul 2010, 12:38 pm
@puff(puff)-87:
Sorry, should have mentioned I was referring to the 6/7/8 combo rather than the 11/14/15 combo.
29 Jul 2010, 12:40 pm
Best team at present possibly this (experimental) with subs:
1 Beast
2 Liebenberg/ Deon Fourie
3 BJ Botha/ Werner Kruger
4 Franco v d Merwe
5 Matfield (captain)/ Becker
6 Brussouw
7 Juan Smith/ Duane Vermeulen
8 Pierre Spies (thought he played well in that last test and got really `physical for a change)
9 Fourie Du Preez/ Sarel Pretorius
10 Morne Steyn/ Ruan Pienaar
11 Habana (if form picks up)
12 Juan de Jongh
13 Jacques Fourie/ Francois Houghaard
14 between JP Pietersen/ Aplon and Mvovo or Mapoe
15 Patrick Lambie or Riaan Viljoen – possibly Steyn
29 Jul 2010, 12:40 pm
Has anyone else noticed how quiet Tacitus has been since the Cheetahs’ dramatic win over the Bulls?
29 Jul 2010, 12:41 pm
@Bill Reyts(Gumboots)-89:
“Bakkies is an embarrassment to rugby and anyone who promotes that knows there rugby – NOT”
you
are beginning
to confuse
yourself
even
with a
their
eish
29 Jul 2010, 12:43 pm
@Porra the Fat and Clever Speedster(Porra)-94:
Yes Miss Piggy!
29 Jul 2010, 12:43 pm
Aplogies forgot about Bismarck cos of his injury so 2 should read Bismrack/ Liebenberg
AS you can see plenty of fast and ball stealing forwards to kill them at the breakdown – all possible fetchers of the ball -
Beast/ Bismarck/ Liebenberg/ Franco vd Merwe/ Brussouw/ Vermeulen.
I´d like to see them counter that. If there was space id inlcude guys like Gurthro, Danie Rossouw, Willem Aberts and maybe even old Ashley Johnson.
29 Jul 2010, 12:44 pm
@Yetirat(Yetirat)-93:
let
this fat
porra
tell you
even with
two losses
in a row
the bulls team
is awesome
29 Jul 2010, 12:46 pm
@Ratel Brussow(Morne Steyn is under-rated)-80: Spot on mate
29 Jul 2010, 12:46 pm
@Porra the Fat and Clever Speedster(Porra)-97:
Three after Saturday!
29 Jul 2010, 12:48 pm
@pokkel(pokkel)-83: Hes definitely up there
29 Jul 2010, 12:51 pm
@Bill Reyts(Gumboots)-99:
you
watch it
this
bulls team
plays rugby
that this
fat
and clever
old porra
hasn’t seen
for
a long time
there
are just
a few
things
that have
to click
and the rest
will be
history
29 Jul 2010, 12:52 pm
@Porra the Fat and Clever Speedster(Porra)-101:
Yes Ma’am!
29 Jul 2010, 12:52 pm
@Porra the Fat and Clever Speedster(Porra)-97:
The Currie Cup only awards points for wins not “awesomeness” unfortunately.
29 Jul 2010, 12:53 pm
Does anyone know when Brussow is back. Im not sure if I can watch another SA test until then?
29 Jul 2010, 12:55 pm
There’s only one frankie steyn
There’s only one frankie steyn
There’s only one frankie steyn
There’s only one frankie steyn…
Ps Duane Vermullet at no8?
Do me a favour … he was owned by the bulls loosies in the super 14 final.
The guy is a carthorse.
29 Jul 2010, 12:57 pm
@gunther(gunther)-105:
Really didn’t even notice that!
29 Jul 2010, 12:57 pm
@gunther(gunther)-105: yes, and he is busy shagging men in france
29 Jul 2010, 13:09 pm
Transie
If you say so… I bow to your superior knowledge on the subject.
Billie
Obviously you are a province supporter so you are under the illusion that your loosies dominated that day.
Which makes the result even more perplexing for sure.
29 Jul 2010, 13:22 pm
15 Steyn/Jantjies/Joe Pietersen
14 Vd Heever/JP Pietersen
13 Fourie/De Jongh
12 De Villiers/De Jongh
11 Habana/Aplon
10 Grant/Steyn
9 DuPreez/Vermaak/Hougaard
8 Spies/Burger
7 Smith/Flouw
6 Brussouw/Burger
5 Matfield/Bekker
4 Roussouw/Fondse/Skeat
3 Steenkamp/Beast
2 Smit/Bismarck
1 CJ/BJ/Jannie
My squad won’t happen but worth a shot
29 Jul 2010, 13:29 pm
100% agree Jon,
Bring back Steyn
29 Jul 2010, 13:35 pm
@slate(slate)-55: lol are you even serious??
3. “Who cares, it’s a prop”- Its a tighthead prop…one of the most important positions…cornerstone of the scrum.
And you have Vermeulen and Smith at 4 and 5….No Matfield and Danie???
5 Loosies on the park? And keegan daniel at 7
lol
29 Jul 2010, 13:38 pm
WC 2011
15. Lambie
14. JPP
13. Fourie
12. F Steyn
11. Habana
10. James
09. Du Preez
08. van Niekerk
07. Smith (c)
06. Brussouw
05. Bekker
04. Rossouw
03. BJ
02. Bismarck
01. Beast
This is the 07 WC Backline (Lambie for Percy), the only bok backline that got the upperhand over their opponents in the last 10 years of Sprinkbok rugby. 9 to 15 minus 11 are all good defenders.
Smit won’t go because he won’t leave the boks in Matfields incapable hands, for which I’m grateful, Juan provides the solution, Bekker better than Matfield by far anyway.
29 Jul 2010, 13:42 pm
@Bluewhitegreengold(Bluewhitegreengold)-109: Burger cant play 6
29 Jul 2010, 13:42 pm
Gerhard vd Heever…now there is a player that will never reach the hype surrounding him. The guys scored one good try, and suddenly he is great. Ag please, the guy is a nobody. In 8 years time he will, like Mametsa, play in his 80th CurrieCup match, his 200th Vodacom Cup game, and people will say stuff like “gee, what a loyal servant to Bulls rugby”.
29 Jul 2010, 13:43 pm
Didnt anyone see Lambie play at 12 on the w end. He is the real deal, maybe an awesome 10 in the making if managed correctly
29 Jul 2010, 13:45 pm
@Mustard(Mustard)-111: What seems to be the issue regarding Keegan? Apart from being a bit arrogant. He has already scored 6 tries in 3 games this Currie Cup, he defintely doesnt lack motivation, is a tenacious defender, unlike Spoes. And dont give me the “he is too small” story. The big 915kg Bok pack had their arses whipped recently, so the size matters theory is null and void.
29 Jul 2010, 13:50 pm
Give me 3 loose forwards to go to war with, and I will have Daniel, Botes and Brussouw, 3 of the smallest, but damn, they will never let you down.
29 Jul 2010, 13:50 pm
read no comments….
But for what its worth ….here is mine.
F Steyn would be the first name i put on my Bok teamsheet if he is fit and willing.
At 12 or 15……every day of the week.
29 Jul 2010, 14:03 pm
#118 – I’m up with you Grant and Jon all the way – a no-brainer of spectacular proportions … those are compelling stats in your article
In fact I’d rather have Frans Steyn than P de V. – how’s that for irony and a reality check?
And comparing Aplon under the high ball and long-distance clearance – and all the other things, not least of all his physicality, that Steyn brings to the table, including a BMT (big-match temperament) kicking for posts that Ruan Pienaar will never have … the list of his attributes is endless, and the fact that he might be a self-believing, big-headed prima donna is neither here not there, probably crucial to his performance like Muhammed Ali and Usain Bolt
29 Jul 2010, 14:05 pm
@grant10(grant10)-118: Wow before F dp, Brussow and M Steyn. Can’t agree on that one
29 Jul 2010, 14:08 pm
@Bok fan(Bok fan)-115: he could be a great 10, just a shame he’s at the sharks, where he will be shifted around till he ends up in europe. he must move to another province and soon.
29 Jul 2010, 14:10 pm
118. grant10(grant10) :
Yip I’d agree with you there. I do like him at 12 as well but with JDV around I’d have him at 15 now.
29 Jul 2010, 14:11 pm
@Bok fan(Bok fan)-120: grant thinks M steyn is kak
29 Jul 2010, 14:11 pm
122. Mike H(Mike H) :
Also would like to see De Jong get game time at 12 so would rather not want Steyn and JDV and De Jong fighting for that spot right now.
Come world cup you take your best option.
29 Jul 2010, 14:14 pm
@Transformation(Transformation)-123: 1 dimensional altitude koeksister…..as soon as the Melktert out of reach M S wilts like a overripe avocado pear
29 Jul 2010, 14:15 pm
@Transformation(Transformation)-123: Well theres 2 players I would never go into a test match without. A reliable goal kicker and a genuine fetcher.
29 Jul 2010, 14:17 pm
@toe-jam(toe-jam)-121: Ja that does seem to be the trend in Shark country lately
29 Jul 2010, 14:18 pm
@Mike H(Mike H)-124: Juan is a actually a natural 13 and Im excited to see him finally get a chance there in J Fouries absence
29 Jul 2010, 14:19 pm
@Bok fan(Bok fan)-115:
Easy…has potential but also it was just the Pumas who gave Sharks one hell of a scare.
Secondly it is just CC rugby,diluted comp at present as well.
He is one for the future but proclaimation is premature.
He is at his best at 15,had a solid S14 & u20 tournament there as well.
Jury still out at 10/12 vs quality opposition…the likes of Stefan Watermeyer etc arent.
He’s a solid 15 thats for sure.
29 Jul 2010, 14:20 pm
For the rest of this year my team would be:
1)Steencamp
Vermulen
2)Chillie (Needs to prove he is not a political pawn – give him a real chance to do it.
3)Botha
4)Bakkies – hardly played this year so far (Danie until suspension is over – mayeb give Flip a real go)
5) Bekker (if fit) – Hargreaves (but not a massive Hargeaves fan)
6) Burger/Potties
7) Smith/Louw
9) Pienaar/Hougaard
10) Steyn/James (Steyn still needs more test experience)
11) Aplon
12) De Jong
13) This worries me – I really don’t think we have a lot of 13 depth. Fourie needs rest. (Maybe JDV here)
14)JP Pieterson (needs game time)
15) Kirchner/Steyn
Smith/Burger or JDV captain
29 Jul 2010, 14:21 pm
@grant10(grant10)-125: hahahaha
your analogies keep me in fits of laughter boet!!!!! Keep them up 
29 Jul 2010, 14:23 pm
P divvy this is it:
1. Keep GS with Beast off bench
2. Move JS to management until he loses 10kgs. bring in Gary Botha with Bismarck hovering.
2. BJ with W Kruger waiting
4. Victor but REST HIM SOON and he must wake up. Bekker around in squad asap
5. Danie. But also must wake up
6. Heinrich asap or Louw as fetcher or Stegmann as fetcher BUT ALWAYS PLAY A F8CKIN FETCHER
7. Juan first then Schalk (prob bench)NOT TOGETHER AS FLANKS AS THEY PLAY THE SAME GAME. Seriously
8. Spies – but he must wake up. Kanko 2 and Duane 3.
9. Fdp as soon as he is able to stand upright. Then Pienaar. Send Ricky to gym
10. Get Peter Grant asap and apologise for being such a pr*ck to him. Morne in the picture but ONLY if FdP is there and NEVER with Wynand outside him. tell Butch it was all a terrible mistake and sorry for the inconvenience.
12. Jean. What the f*ck are they doing breaking up possible the best centre pairing sonce readmission? Am i missing something? Jean de jongh covers both centres. Wynand as last resort, maybe.
13. Fourie you legend
14. JPP back fast, Aplon yes in the pic and coming on nicely.
11. Habs given a nice cosy chat …”we promise to get the ball to you a bit more but stay out and defend wide a bit more, only go for intercept 4 times a game..” Keep Bjorn basson and Hougaard in the picture – they are both future legends
15. Apologise profusely to one of the most talented prodigies of his generation, Mr F Steyn, beg forgiveness and ask for his return. Tell Zane to stick around.
And stop talking k*k to the press.
And that’s it.
29 Jul 2010, 14:26 pm
130. Mike H(Mike H) :
Come Wc after a good rest and conditioning focus I’d take:
1 Beast/Steencamp
2 Smit/Bissie (possibly Chillie if he proved himself this year.)
3 Botha/CJ
4 Bakkies/Russouw
5 Victor/Bekker
6 Burger/Potties
7 Smith/Louw (maybe Brussouw rather than Louw if low doesn;t step up this year.
8 Spies/Vermulen
9 Du Preez/Pienaar
10 Steyn/James
11 Habana/Aplon
12 JDV/De Jong
13 Fourie
14 JP Pieterson
15 Steyn
Smit as Captain
The run on team apart from Steyn would all be from JW’s squad.
29 Jul 2010, 14:38 pm
@mshiniwami(mshiniwami)-129: ngiyabonga mfowethu! I guess we’ll always be killing these flare ups of hyperbole about some players. Funny thing is bjorn basson made lambie look ordinary and a carthorse! Yet his foray at 12 is trumpeted as like it’s the 2nd coming of you know who!
I sommer got bored watching that game, capostagno was lauding everything lambie did…even a lousy pass…’oh what a great pass by lambie’ ffs he is a rugby player, he should know how to pass the ball!
29 Jul 2010, 14:41 pm
The reason Peter’s voice is so squeaky is because he has a really narrow throat. Far too narrow to swallow that massive lump of pride.
29 Jul 2010, 14:43 pm
W kruger? W Kruger? OMG,he got his butt kicked in the Freestate game. You Bulls supporters must realise that there is talent around that doesnt wear a mof blou shirt.
That youngster from the Cheaters looked fantastic, Coenie Oosthuizen.
29 Jul 2010, 14:45 pm
Sharks Team for Sat.
15 Ludik
14 JP
13 Stef
12 Lambie
11 Mvovo
10 Meyer
9 Mcleod
8 Kankowski
7 Daniel
6 Botes
5 Skeate
4 Sykes
3 Herbst
2 Burden
1 Cilliers
16 Kyle Cooper, 17 Beast, 18Vn Staden, 19 Alberts, 20 Deysel. 21 Kockott, 22 Strauss.
Not too shabby. Like the fact Alberts and Deysel are being treated with caution, watch out for them early in the second half.
29 Jul 2010, 14:52 pm
@John Galt(John Galt)-137:
loose trio a bit lightweight for the first 60 minutes.
would have preferred more grunt with deysel and alberts and had daniel and botes on later when vrystaat a bit tired.
29 Jul 2010, 14:56 pm
134. Transformation(Transformation) :
’oh what a great pass by lambie’ ffs he is a rugby player, he should know how to pass the ball!
HAHAH classic.
138. charo(charo) :
I have a house in Orlando Florida on Charo Parkway
29 Jul 2010, 14:56 pm
@charo(charo)-138: Dropping Daniel now would be like….like….like dropping Frans Steyn. A DISGRACE.
29 Jul 2010, 14:56 pm
“The Springbok coaches, selectors and Saru bigwigs will meet to discuss the Frans Steyn issue next week. ……..”
WHY………….?
According to Peter de Clown……….these loses are part of an IRB conspiracy to make NZ look good in the lead up to the WC.
So there is no problem to fix.
The problem is out of Your hands……………..It’s Friggen Global Okes.
You canny fix a Global Plot.
Your Team is not frigggen useless.
It only looks like it is.
29 Jul 2010, 14:59 pm
i think the cheetahs were lucky to beat the bulls … i think the bulls got a bit complacent in the second half, also stegmann’s injury played a part …. Sharks by 10+
29 Jul 2010, 15:00 pm
@charo(charo)-138:
Ya, tough one. Deysel and Alberts havent played any rugby for a while now.
Think Daniel and Botes will be ok. Daniel was bloody good against the Bulls.
29 Jul 2010, 15:01 pm
@Transformation(Transformation)-134: boo hoo for you transie.
the bulls fans also got bored i bet.
lambie broke the line beautifully imo.
on more than one occasion, but i agree the hype is getting too much. he is no more than average springbok level at present, much like ricky and chili
29 Jul 2010, 15:02 pm
@Panzer Chief(cane)-141: Peter just can’t understand the favouritism shown to NZ in NZ, he is a straight shooting guy and has to try to rationalise it some way. The rest of us however are used to watching it as the ABs have been getting gifts at home from refs for the past decade. No nation is better at influencing refs via illicit means and putting Paddy O’Kiwi in charge of the IRB reffing was a terrible mistake (albeit one that backfired on the NZIRB with the appointment of the fair-minded Barnsey in Cardiff ’07).
29 Jul 2010, 15:02 pm
I’ll always be a big Francois Steyn fan! Kirchner is absolute rubbish and I never ever suggested him in there, Joe Pietersen deserved a Bok spot far more (even if smaller and I am a bull). But don’t forget Kirchner is the new blue eyed Earl Rose of PDV, and lord knows what it will take for PDV to realize what Keo has just said.
I have to say that I have my doubts over Matfield too and not since the 3N started. On many an occasion I chcuked my ice cold Castle at the TV during the S14 this year, as Matfield was sluggishly jogging to the rucks. Plenty of Bulls friends also expressed their belief in playing the new boys at lock (but then again Matfield was champ in the final against the Stromers. Perhaps he should stop pointing fingers and demanding match fees for poor discipline, and start looking deep inside. Lead from the front Victor!
John Smit has been poorer at hooker this season than Wahl Bartman on LSD could ever be. I would most definately give the Chilli a go (he’s shown some eagerness in the few minutes he has played)…If SA rugby could drop Teichman, they can kick old fatty under the arse too. Poor throwing, poor captaincy, poor hooking (scrumming pretty well) and on the verge of being declared obese!
Play that laaitie with the kak hairstyle at scrummie (Hougaard)… Surely he’s better than January and Pienaar (now there is a waste of time). We should get rid of Ruan Pienaar asap. He should never be allowed to play rugby in SA again. I have serious doubts over his intelligence too.
Pierre Spies has been found out at last. I have been telling the blokes about the rubbish he is. Looks marvelous when there is no work to be done. His physical coordination also looks a bit off. He looks unbalanced when attacking the rucks, almost like his legs are to thin. We need a number 8 with very hairy legs and he must stink of opposition armpits. Not some flashy straight line running mamma’s boy! When the going gets tough the Spies gets nowehere.
Schalk can stay he was the only player who looked even remotely interested last week. And Kankowski should go join Pienaar on the Island we send them too. He is not and will never be Springbok material. Stick with Francois Louw, he is learning and more than eager enough with size.
Props are not too shabby and our scrums are great nowadays.
Wynand Olivier, what can I say: He is swakker than the Jaar Vergadering van die Vroue Federasie. A solid bench player for a Currie Cup team. Stick with de Jongh and give him some game time (considering the WC is next year)…
And that brings us to the biggest f-up of them all… Old Snor. F*ck nows folks this bloke doesn’t have any clue. His actions certianly didn’t sit well with the seniors and he couldn’t motivate two snot nosed street kids to buy ice-cream.
I reckon they should arrange a Springbok day for the boys. Show them tapes of old Joggie Jansen’s tackle, of our proud history, of what Springbok rugby is about! Get them to understand that a 30 point thrashing three weeks in a row simply does not happen to the greatest rugby team that has ever walked the galaxy!
29 Jul 2010, 15:03 pm
@rangerman(rangerman)-144: terrific talent, will be interesting to see if he can make the 12 spot his own as the Boks could use a distributing centre of his ilk in their malfunctioning backline.
29 Jul 2010, 15:04 pm
@Porra the Fat and Clever Speedster(Porra)-101:
FREE STATE
donnered
the
bulls
29 Jul 2010, 15:05 pm
okey, so IF the conspiracy theory stands true that NZ are helped to build up momentum for World Cup, then how, my dear plonkers, do you explain the woopin at the hands of the Wobblies. And what happens to the theory if the Wobblies beat the Blacks on the weekend?
29 Jul 2010, 15:06 pm
@Big Hit(Big Hit)-147: he is indeed biggie.
as is basson actually.
i think we will see lambie in the 10 jersey sometime soon but imo, after watching him live all year he has a very limited boot, much like peter grant.
so maybe center is a better option for him as his kicking game does not need to be as polished there?
29 Jul 2010, 15:06 pm
@Mike H(Mike H)-139:
any other houses for sale there.
i need an address like that
29 Jul 2010, 15:07 pm
We all know that politicians are corrupt criminals
and that business leaders are all totally corrupt as well
So tell me why do we not know that SPORT is corrupt
and that referees are paid pimps?
29 Jul 2010, 15:09 pm
@John Galt(John Galt)-137:
Do you think they will keep Lambie at 12 or is it just a stop gap move? Was Pienaar not released back to the Sharks or was he just not chosen?
29 Jul 2010, 15:09 pm
@Skiballas(Skiballas1)-149: ag, the conspiracy theories are all a load of nonsense.
the refs were simply poor and inconsistent.
and being home games, nz were favoured.
such is the way of the world.
29 Jul 2010, 15:10 pm
@Big Hit(Big Hit)-147:
Absolutely, little too slow for 15 I think but not much.
Hope he stays at 12 for the Sharks. The sharks backline worked beautifully against the bulls 2 weeks ago, due in no small part to his distribution and the guy is great in defence, very good tackler.
Didnt watch the Puma game so not sure what happened there.
29 Jul 2010, 15:12 pm
@Boksarenumber5(Boksarenumber1)-152: Dude, doesnt matter how crooked the ref is, it isnt his job to tackle the opposition.
29 Jul 2010, 15:14 pm
@Bill Reyts(Gumboots)-153: stop gap?
how so bill?
we have swannie (who made pg and jdj kak their broeks in the s14 game).
he was there to ease towards playing at 10 according to plum.
29 Jul 2010, 15:15 pm
@Bill Reyts(Gumboots)-153:
Read my post above, I think with Ludik there, theyll play him at 12 from now.
Will be interesting to see what happens when Swannepoel comes back. I personally think swannie is very limited tho.
The time of the big big crash ball 12 is at an end in SA i think.
Time for the De Jongs and Lambies to stand up. Added bonus is that they both are good defenders as well.
29 Jul 2010, 15:16 pm
@rangerman(rangerman)-144: hahahaha are fuking capostagno ranger? He broke the line, but why should be ‘broke the line beautifully’ hehehe
you sharks fans come across as desperate for you players to be world class, stop talking them up stupidly!
29 Jul 2010, 15:20 pm
they also had to make the wallabies win, so that the NZ games doesn’t look like a conspiracy.
29 Jul 2010, 15:22 pm
@rangerman(rangerman)-150: with jlp, sharks bound lambie must forget pivot! Unless when jlp is with the Boks, which he will be come eoyt & next year’s incoming tour!
29 Jul 2010, 15:29 pm
@rangerman(rangerman)-150: I think selecting a genuinely creative ball player like Lambie at 12 would represent progress on crashing centres like Olivier and De Villiers and provide the Bok backline with more cohesion. If the Boks were short at 10 he could move into the flyhalf position a couple of season down the line like Carter and Wilkinson before him.
@John Galt(John Galt)-155: yeah I only caught the highlights, but there little pop offload out of contact and he spread the play beautifully (sorry trans
) on another occasion, something I’m not used to seeing from SA inside centres.
29 Jul 2010, 15:38 pm
@rangerman(rangerman)-157:
Sorry I was asking about Lambie not about Swannie. I think you misunderstood. I think Lambie is a great prospect at 15. Will have to see if he swims between 10,12 and 15.
Howzit bro!
29 Jul 2010, 15:40 pm
@John Galt(John Galt)-158:
Size is such a myth in this country mate! I know you think I’m trying to be silly, but nothing grates me more than playing guys 15 this week 12 next and then 10. It may be good for the team but not good for the player. Won’t go on about it, you got my point.
29 Jul 2010, 15:41 pm
@Big Hit(Big Hit)-162:
Afternoon BH – a few weeks ago Lambie was the answer at 15, now 12! Maybe 10 next week? What you think?
29 Jul 2010, 15:44 pm
BEST 15 FOR HOME LEG
15 FRANCE STEYN
14 GIO APLON
13 JAQUE FOURIE
12 JEAN DE VILLIERS
11 BRYAN HABANA
10 BUTCH JAMES
9 RUAN PIENAAR
8 RYAN KANKOWSKI
7 JEAN DEYSEL
6 SCHALCK BURGER
5 ANDRIES BEKKER
4 VICTOR MATFIELD
3 CJ VAN DE LINDE
2 BISMARK DU PLISSIS(will be fit by then)
1 TANDAI “BEAST” MTWARIRA
16 JOHN SMIT
17 JANNIE DU PLISSIS
18 DANIE ROSSOW
19 FRANCIOUS LOWE
20 FRANCIOUS HOUGAARDT
21 MORNE STEYN
22 JP PETERSON
GIVE OR TAKE THAT COULD ONE OF THE BETTER MATCH 22′S
MIXTURE OF PHYSICALITY, PACE, POWER, YOUTH AND EXPERIENCE.
MOST WILL NOT AGREE WITH BUTCH AT 10. BUT GIVE HIM A CHANCE HE IS STILL BETTER AND MORE EXPERIENCED THAN MORNE!!! SAY WHAT WANT. BELIEVE IT. BUTCH IS BACK!!!!
29 Jul 2010, 15:47 pm
@rangerman(rangerman)-154:
the refs are corrupt to the hilt
and the Boks are cr@p
29 Jul 2010, 15:47 pm
@Bill Reyts(Gumboots)-165: well the Sharks have cover at 10 now with Meyer and Potgieter and Ludik/Terblanche can play 15 so 12 might make the most sense if his defence is up to it.
SA have Kirchner, F.Steyn, Joe Pieterson, Aplon as possible full-backs but are lacking a 12 (De Jongh will end up at 13 imo) as Olivier doesn’t look up to it and JDV is getting on so perhaps an EOYT spot beckons in that position.
29 Jul 2010, 15:55 pm
@mshiniwami(mshiniwami)-129: Ja not saying now but definitely one for the future
29 Jul 2010, 15:57 pm
Ja , JA , Ja. Province
29 Jul 2010, 16:04 pm
If only the coach could swallow his pride ja. Good article this.
29 Jul 2010, 16:06 pm
@Bill Reyts(Gumboots)-153:
I see Ruan is on the bench. It looks like Lambie is being groomed for 10 by starting at 12. The old Kiwi tactic.
29 Jul 2010, 16:13 pm
Just thinking of what the people in bloem are feeding the boys…look at the current players that hail from the rowwe free state and in contention/close to being in contention for Boks:
Bismarck du Plessis
Adriaan Strauss
Tiaan Liebenberg
Jannie du Plessis
CJ van der Linde
Wian du Preez
Coenie Oosthuizen (watch this boy…he is going to be great)
Flip van der Merwe
Heinrich Brussouw
Deon Stegman
Ruan Pienaar
Frans Steyn
Joe Pietersen
(all Grey boys)
Morne Steyn
(Sand du Plessis)
Juan Smith
(think Bloemfontein Hoerskool)
They breed them well in the States!
29 Jul 2010, 16:14 pm
@David(David)-172:
Why does ruan kick every ball he gets away in hopeless up and unders that go 10 meters?
29 Jul 2010, 16:15 pm
@Sharkie10(Sharkie10)-166: Bekkers out for the season and Matfield clearly needs a long break but most importantly you need a genuine fetcher, you loose trio wont work against the ABs and Aussies
29 Jul 2010, 16:16 pm
@David(David)-172: Got the right temperament
29 Jul 2010, 16:16 pm
@Sharkie10(Sharkie10)-166:
Agree…Butch at 10…Frans can kick for posts.
We will run them stukkend!
Wont Fourie miss out though due to suspension (is he missing just the first game?)
Bissy is the best…the business…but think he shouldnt be thrown in so quickly…that was quite a serious injury.
29 Jul 2010, 16:18 pm
@OUToftheBOKS(OUToftheBOKS)-177:
and bekker out for long time
29 Jul 2010, 16:18 pm
@Boksarenumber5(Boksarenumber1)-174:
Because his forwards are too slow to run any further.
@OUToftheBOKS(OUToftheBOKS)-173:
Are these all Free State born, or just went to Grey for schooling, do you know?
29 Jul 2010, 16:20 pm
@David(David)-179:
lmao good one
29 Jul 2010, 16:22 pm
Bring our FS back please we beg thee!!!
29 Jul 2010, 16:34 pm
@David(David)-179:
I might be wrong, but here is what I think:
Bissie, Jannie, Fransie Steyn: born in Bethlehem (eastern free state)
Tiaan, CJ, Wian: THINK all of them hail from Bloem, and not boarders at Grey
Brussouw, Ruan Pienaar, Morne, Juan Smith: all Bloem boyes born and bread
Flip van der Merwe: Leeudoring Stad (think thats somewhere in Northern Cape)
Adriaan Strauss (Family farms somewhere, but think he was in Grey all of his schooling)
Joe Pietersen is a surfer boy of note…he didnt like the Bloemfontein that much – this I know for a fact. Went to Grey in grade 10 (his from Margate)
And Coenie Oosthuizen…comes from somewhere up north! Like springs or nigel or the likes…
29 Jul 2010, 16:39 pm
@OUToftheBOKS(OUToftheBOKS)-182:
Thanks.
29 Jul 2010, 16:41 pm
@Sharkie10(Sharkie10)-166: why wont add some more shark player’s to the mix while you at it?
surely there is space for lambie,daniel,ludik,mvovo?
by this rate even monty du plonk will wear the green and gold one of these days?
29 Jul 2010, 16:44 pm
@Sharkie10(Sharkie10)-166: why not add some more shark player’s to the mix while you at it?
surely there is space for lambie,daniel,ludik,sykes as the inforcer?
by this rate even monty du plonk will wear the green and gold one of these days if you were the coach,TG?
do yourself a favour next week, watch other teams play too, u’ll be amazed that there is rugby going on if the sharks dont play
29 Jul 2010, 18:17 pm
JC are you deliberately writing on the ignorance or lack of information available to the average rugby supporter or are you just that much of an amateur?
Why not phone Frans, or his agent, and ask him what the real story with his club and club commitments are, and let everyone here know?
29 Jul 2010, 18:23 pm
Frans is a 12, he always was a 12, will continue to be a 12, and will forever be a 12. ALL of his best games have been at 12, then wing, THEN fullback. he is not a complete 15, and does not possess the mentality of a 15. Aside from his booming boot, he doesn’t offer anything else that anyone else couldn’t. Joe Pietersen on the other hand is a fine 15, and easily our best. Unfortunately, we do not possess world class 15′s, not of the ilk of Muiliaina, Dagg, Kearney, etc…
But to play our best and most complete 12 in living memory out of position to mask other deficiencies, as was done last year, is something I don’t agree with.
29 Jul 2010, 18:42 pm
@Alucard(Alucard)-187: based on what ? your opinion ,frans steyn in my opinion is the bestfull back in the world by a country mile, his drop kicks and huge boot are so dangerous -and i beg to differ about him being the best 12 i think jdv is our best 12 maybe even the best 12 in world rugby at the moment or best wing …whatever haha
@toe-jam(toe-jam)-185: why get so defensive about it ,again his opinion ,jean deysel has been great in the last two years and the others have been regulars in the springbok setup- oh just a thought on frans louw ,was once a great great fan ,now realise he isnt hard enough to be a blindside flank -doesnt tackle or run as well as deysel smith alberts so on and is not quick enough to be an open side flank-so what is he ?a blindside flank that is good at fetching not chasing ruks that isnt anything special when it comes to ball carrying ,sad to say ,after the italy game i thought we had a real gem in the making ,now just realise he is to slow realy
29 Jul 2010, 18:56 pm
@Alucard(Alucard)-187:best 12 in the country? Better than 2008 SA Player of the Year Jean de Villiers? Even Jake rated Jean waaaaaaay higher than Frans, substantiate!!!!!
@baw(maxed)-188: best foolback in the world “by a country mile” nogal?! Did you read Alucard’s post?
Mils Muliaina, Israel Dagg, Robe Kearney! Are you clueless about these names
29 Jul 2010, 19:05 pm
@Transformation(Transformation)-189: i dont rate them as much as i rate frans steyn …out of all of them dag is the only one who realy is top class ,well he has potentiall ,then occonor is the next big thing at fb
but fransie is a great fb ,just becuase he doesnt fall into the running fullback that we are all in awe of right now becuase of mills good runs doesnt meen that he isnt a dam good full back ,maybe even the best in the world ,he is so dangerous in the back 3 ,a points machine and huge defensively- i think it is a sad thing not to recognise how important a huge boot is at the back -why jpp never cut it at fb ! the abs are ready to fall apart once carter falls out of the picture ,game over ,check mate they are screwed -we can praise them now but we know they are a 10th the team they are without the boy wonder ,then we will notice mills terrible kicking instead of his great running …well what i think 
29 Jul 2010, 19:07 pm
@baw(maxed)-190: and sorry i know that is realy hard to read
29 Jul 2010, 19:14 pm
@baw(maxed)-190: israel dagg & o’connor are quicker than fransie, they’re more accurate goalkickers than fransie! They’re better thinkers, tactically and skill wise than fransie! How can Fransie be even close to being the best fullback in the world?
29 Jul 2010, 19:31 pm
As much as I like Steyn this is not an issue about the player, but more the type of player that he is and the edge he gives any team.
Either we need to find a guy that brings a similar edge (not necessarily the same qualities) or we need to bring Steyn back.
Kirchner is a good player, but he does not bring that.
Time to give Aplon and extended run in the home leg I reckon to see what he can do.
If he does not cut it, get boy wonder back for the EOYT
29 Jul 2010, 19:45 pm
@PissAnt(PissAnt)-193: he pissant…here’s a blast from the past i saw the other day
you’re a funny guy 
38. PISSANT :
August 24th, 2006 at 5:07 pm
“Pienaar, who slept in his Springbok kit the
night before his first match for the Boks
against the World XV, doubts he will do the
same tomorrow night. ”
And Jake White sleeps in a Luke Watson
Western Province number 6 jersey before
every match.
29 Jul 2010, 19:47 pm
@Transformation(Transformation)-194:
Haha, my god that was long ago…
29 Jul 2010, 19:48 pm
@PissAnt(PissAnt)-195:
Over 5 years on this blog…
**** I am one sad individual…
Must say I enjoyed the reporters of old much more.
29 Jul 2010, 20:10 pm
@baw(maxed)-190: Agree – although I definitely don’t think Frans Steyn is the finished article yet. He is a great distance kicker, potentially an imposing last line of defense (although it still needs a bit of work and bloody-minded attitude), and he is actually pretty good at running back at the defense and usually crosses the gain-line due to his bulk and occasionally takes amazing gaps… And he really has that Xfactor that totally unsettled the All Blacks last year. (Part of the reason why PdV has copped so much flack from the NZ press, I think, is because they think he is a complete fool to have left Frans out!!)
Now if he could only be taught how to draw and pass and be a bit less selfish, we will definitely have a world-class fullback. I am definitely with Cardinelli that he is the best option at fullback for SA at the moment. I really believe that if he gets another season-and-half concentrating on his best position (i.e. fullback) and with good coaching and mentoring he could be one of the best fullbacks in SA history. Just a pity he has won so much so early, it has all come a bit too easy, and I don’t know if he has the stomach or the attitude to grind it out and become the really amazing fullback that he could be….
So -come PdV, please bring him back, I know he has a bit of a childish sulk, but jeepers, he is a good player, and you need to have your best players if you want to beat the AB’s and
Aussies!!!
(Just a little aside – if one could just marry Gio’s incredible attitude, hunger and speed, and Frans’s size, boot and x-factor we would have the most incredible fullback!!!
)
29 Jul 2010, 20:12 pm
@PissAnt(PissAnt)-196: Well I have enjoyed your postings over the years more than the journalists. But I suppose that is the point.
29 Jul 2010, 20:22 pm
This feigning and fawning and gat kruip gat lek crawling all over Frans Steyns overrated @ss is totally unnecessary and uncalled for.
we got plenty enough talented full backs far better at full back play than that self proclaimed rugby god genius.
Viljoen – watch this lad – got more speed and almost the same prolific boot and hardly the groot kop status of Frans Steyn
Joe Pietersen
Aplon
JPP
even Jaque Fourie
or Morne Steyn can play big part at full back.
I’d take Morne out of fly half straight up and play him 15 tomorrow and play a more front foot fly half immediately.
They already missed the boat because both Pienaar and Peter Grant are now gone with the wind, all we left with now is doldrum Steyn and potential JL Potgieter to make into prodigious fly half generals, far too late to read the writing on the wall, it was there for all to see clear as daylight in 2008 now its buried under the ditch. Idiots.
29 Jul 2010, 20:26 pm
@skopskiet(yliad)-199: Thanks for that uplifting post, broe! Surely a bit morbid? Although putting Morne Steyn at fullback isn’t a half bad idea, particularly if PdV is going to continue to ignore Frans for whatever reason. And then Butch or Peter Grant at flyhalf…
29 Jul 2010, 23:21 pm
A lot of people on this blog are missing a very important fact: Forget everything else about Steyn – his massive boot means that opposition teams are reluctant to kick at him because they know they’ll get it back with interest. And this small fact forces them to change their game plan. Once you’ve done that to an opposition, that’s half the game won.
And when he is under pressure he has enough skill and strength to stand up in the tackle until support arrives. Neither one of these are skills you would attribute to someone like Aplon or Kirchner. Jantjies, possibly.
This is a crucial part of fullback play that the current crop don’t posess to any impressive degree.
30 Jul 2010, 01:21 am
Quite frankly the only ‘complete’ 15 from RSA that can also kick for posts and play 10 or wing (other than Frans) has been allowed to escape to France too… namely Joe Pietersen… problem being he is white, blonde haired and blued eyed also!
30 Jul 2010, 06:47 am
Joe Pieterson ? Maybe a player which you can on multiple positions, but defnitely not a replacement for Steyn. Nothing Joe Pieterson can do that Kirchner is not doing equally as well. Agree with Chappy, Steyn with his experience and presence a definite requirement for the boks going to WC next year. No use in trying to built “new” experience 12 months before the WC.
30 Jul 2010, 08:12 am
@BrisbaneBok(BrisbaneBok)-50:
He’s also young. He has time on his side. I’d stay for about three seasons. Come back and wait to see which union offers him the best contract. The Boks are going through the worst time in a deacade and he could never have picked a better time to keep his reputation intact.
30 Jul 2010, 08:20 am
Interestingly, a number of bloggers have pointed out Steyns value is due to the fact that he forces the opposition to think twice before kicking the ball downfield and the threat of a drop or him returning the ball with interest. The only problem with that argument is that both the Wobblies and ABs are now keeping the ball in hand and not kicking it away.
30 Jul 2010, 09:30 am
@slate(slate)-55: Interesting point re the locks, and well worth experimenting with (perhaps not at test level, in case it’s a total **** up). Matfield could be the greatest line out jumper ever in the history of this and every universe, but if line out jumping only makes up 5% of of play, and somebody’s better than him at the other 95%, then that somebody should play. If we had Juan Smith and Danie Rossouw at lock, then we could afford a Pierre Spies show pony type player, who would effectively become a half-back(literally, half-forward half-back), because there’d be 4 other loose forwards to do the dirty work. It might be that locks have been around for so long that everybody just assumes they’re crucial, when they’re actually not, and we’ll never know until somebody tries (cue Pissant or somebody with actual rugby knowledge to explain why this would be a complete *** up).
30 Jul 2010, 09:36 am
@chappy(chappy)-201: Well, if his big boot is the only thing you see in Steyn, then you can just as well go with Daniller who has the biggest in-play kicking boot at this moment, or if you mean the kicking to poles (including drop goals) you can go with Viljoen who’s kicked just as far as Steyn.
Steyn has a bit more to offer than just his kicking, BUT that was what was missing in the game he played for the boks. He didn’t look as sharp in his running. But it was kinda expected in his off-month.
JC, they probably do have to discuss how they’re gonna get him out of his contract, or even some type of agreement.
30 Jul 2010, 14:34 pm
“his claim that Steyn was off the pace ”
This is TOTALLY ridiculous!
OFF WHAT PACE ???
HE is CERTAINLY not off the pace of the current state of the Bok team … he can ONLY improve that!
WAKE UP!
Why did it take 3 losses to realize this?
And how many more will it take before you get him in here?! Get him in now and lift the team … so we can at least defend the 2N with some pride!!!
30 Jul 2010, 14:41 pm
@David(David)-205: That’s only because they are not up against a team that makes that difficult, so they can easily keep the ball and get over the advantage line.
Once they’re up against a stronger more efficient Bok team they will look to try get it up-field, as they won’t be happy being pinned back so much of the time.
1 Aug 2010, 01:37 am
Steyn is obviously very special…and young. He should be in the mix. Graham Henry, Robbie Deans and Martin Johnson would love him in their stable.
But the Boks poor form is NOT due to 15, it’s at 6 and 7 where we are being beaten clearly at the breakdown. Scalk is playing OK, but the open side is a serious weakness.
And Fourie is sorely missed…like a braai without the wors!
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