Swallow your pride, Pete
29 Jul 2010
JON CARDINELLI says the Bok coach won’t find a better fullback than Frans Steyn between now and the 2011 World Cup.
The Springbok coaches, selectors and Saru bigwigs will meet to discuss the Frans Steyn issue next week. I have to wonder, what is there to discuss? The Boks can no longer afford to ignore his talents and, as Steyn’s stated on numerous occasions, he’s keen to rejoin the side.
Steyn started the one-off Test against Wales in June. He’s since been cast back into the international wilderness. What was De Villiers’s reason? Steyn was off the pace because he’d played all of one season in northern hemisphere club competitions for Racing Metro.
Meanwhile, De Villiers has failed to find a good option at fullback. Zane Kirchner was ordinary on the 2009 end-of-year tour to Europe, and while he’s produced some determined showings in the 2010 Tri-Nations, it’s clear he’ll never be a factor at Test level.
At 23, Steyn has won a World Cup, a series against the British & Irish Lions, a Tri-Nations crown and a Currie Cup. He’s played 37 times for South Africa, starting 20 Tests. In the matches he’s started, the Boks have won 17 and lost only three. Included in those starting wins are the last six 2007 World Cup Tests, four 2009 Tri-Nations games and the first two Lions fixtures.
You can’t compare Steyn to Kirchner or any other South African fullback option. He has the all-round game the Boks require. His powerful boot has become so vital to the Boks’ line-kicking game, and he’s able to kick those record-breaking penalties from within his own half. As seen by his recent exploits in France, he’s also capable of nailing some outrageous drop-goals from 60m out.
Jake White deployed Steyn at centre in the 2007 World Cup in order to extract value from his formidable stature, but the man also provides a useful running option from the back. While Kirchner lacks attacking incision, Gio Aplon is renowned for those gliding runs from the deep. In comparing Aplon and Steyn, you have to ask whether Aplon’s primary threat trumps Steyn’s all-round value. And can you ignore the fact that despite his age, Steyn has won the big Tests for South Africa and has an overall win ratio of 75%? Obviously not.
Conrad Jantjes recently began his comeback to rugby, and after speaking to him, I don’t think the Boks should expect him to be Test ready until 2011. He suffered a broken leg in May 2009 and is still not completely over his injury. He spoke about this year’s Currie Cup as part of his rehabilitation, and it may be some time before he can go flat out.
Perhaps a strong showing in the 2011 Super 15 will bring Jantjes back into Bok contention, but for the moment, it wouldn’t be fair to consider him and option.
If De Villiers needs to make a rugby decision, he should bring Steyn back for the home leg of the Tri-Nations and pick him for the Grand Slam tour. Steyn’s spent a year in northern conditions and his knowledge thereof will be an asset.
But the relationship between the Bok coach and Steyn has been on the rocks since the player announced his move to France last year. There’s been little communication between the two, and although De Villiers released a statement this May claiming they’d resolved their differences, his claim that Steyn was off the pace and his refusal to pick Steyn for more than one Test speaks volumes.
Three consecutive Tri-Nations defeats, however, could lead to that pride being placed on the shelf. De Villiers is desperate to save face in this tournament, which is now New Zealand’s to lose. He must reinstate South Africa’s best fullback option, and invest in him for next year’s World Cup.
So come on Pete, stop wasting time. Give the kid a call, and show the faith in him that you showed in 2008 and 2009. Think 17 wins from 20 starts. You won’t be disappointed.
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210 Comments
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29 Jul 2010, 11:44 am
Francois Steyn is also a good tackler!
Because of his bulk he always get over the advantage line. I remember that very good in from last year British Lions and 3Nations games!
I personally think Kirchner , Joe Petersen and Aplon is good S14 players, but they are not exceptional.
I do not think Joe Petersen is yet there.
Jantjies was very ordinary before his injury and I do not think he will make again a starting bok side – I’ll rather play Aplon.
Op die stadium is ons probleem ons voorspelers wat nie as span saam speel nie (en natuurlik ons onfikse vettie op nr.2)
29 Jul 2010, 11:46 am
@mshiniwami(mshiniwami)-43:I thnk the sooner plod is sent packing the better. He was neva amongst the top 2 @ 2 even @ his peak. My WC 2′s would be Bissie and Tiaan. L.
29 Jul 2010, 11:47 am
Cardinelli’s right. Frans Steyn’s the best 15 by far. Just don’t pick the kid at centre — he’s totally allergic to passing.
29 Jul 2010, 11:48 am
Swallow your pride, Pete.
And while you’re at it…
Hold your tongue.
And better yet…
Fall on your sword.
29 Jul 2010, 11:48 am
I think there are two many chiefs and two many lame and lazies in the Boks team at the moment.
1. Beast
2. Tiaan Liebenburg – We need that lunatic Bismark back desperately
3. Who cares, it’s a prop
4. Vermeulen – The way the game is going with no kicking and hardly any line outs why not stick in two ferocious loose forwards? They can both jump or be thrown in the air by the fat props if need be. Will give the props something to do.
5. Juan Smith - Captain ”Hear Hear”
6. Schalk Burger – He just keeps going, has to be there.
7. Keegan Daniel because he cares – We miss Brussouw.
8. Jean Deysel ? Spies for the last 30mins.
9. Ruan Pienaar – Duvenage – jeez we miss the bald oke from Snortoria.
10. Butch - needs to start running straight / Morne Steyn (Morne might need a break and it’s so much fun to watch Butch hurt okes.)
11. Francois Hougaard (The oke was the best wing of the Super 14 by a mile and Habana is the shittest wing in the world at the moment)
12. Juan De Jong – Devilliers for last 20 mins – For farks sake no more Bon Jovi
13. Jacque Fourie
14. Gerhard Van Den Heever (Mean lighty and we have no one else) Whens JP back?
15. Patrick Lambie ( the kid is the future)or Habana when reconditioned. Maybe play Frans on his good day. Seems to have 1 good 3 bad. It’s just a cycle I will pick it for Snor if he wants.
29 Jul 2010, 11:49 am
Still there, Pete.
Oh well, do us a favour then please.
Drop Spies, Januarie and Olivier.
29 Jul 2010, 11:50 am
I really rated Pienaar but he shies away from contact
Hougaard or SPretorius
Shame about smokin Joe petersen he is both a great kicker and attacker probably one of our better all round fullbacks
29 Jul 2010, 11:51 am
1. Mtawarira
2. Smit
3. Botha
4. Rossouw
5. Matfield
6. Burger
7. Smith
8. Potgieter
9. Hougaard
10. Steyn
11. Habana
12. De Villiers
13. De Jongh
14. Aplon
15. Steyn
16. Du Plessis
17. Van Der Linde
18. Van Der Merwe
19. Louw
20. Pienaar
21. James
22. Pieterson
29 Jul 2010, 11:54 am
43 – spot on. That IS certainly the team you would want starting the games that matter at WC time. This year has been interesting though in that it has exposed the inherent weakness of the “tactical” gameplan of kick and chase, mauling, playing to lineouts, kicking penalties if that top 15 is not there.
Consider exactly who was there last year – very close to the side mentioned above. The REAL issue is that what we have seen on tour this year is very much a potential foretaste of what is to come once many of the star players are gone for good and this brings us to the question of rugby styles. Put simply – a team playing that “tactical” gameplan CAN only function when all the top guys are there. If, however, one moves to a style focussing on ball in hand and speed then a rehaul of the squad would be required and suddenly the the balance changes. You would then need to include the Peter Grants, the de Jonghs. You would absolutely have to have a foraging loosie at all times and a 9 who clears very quickly.
I actually believe we have the players to do that and surprise the world. In fact we SHOULD be developing that “second squad” if you like which plays the “open” game right now while the opportunity exists. I believe that is the real irritation felt amongst Bok supporters right now. Deep down we know we’re missing an opportunity to rebuild.
Our true problem is that we still lack the confidence and self-belief as regards the running game. Our management and players just don’t believe we can take the ABs and Aussies on at their own style and beat them (with possibly **** Muir excepted if you believe the media reports) Until we get over that and back ourselves it’ll be a long haul for bok supporters.
29 Jul 2010, 11:55 am
cheers okes
29 Jul 2010, 11:57 am
puff – You seriously want to leave out Fourie?
9. RP/Hougaard
10. M Steyn
11. Habana
12. JDV
13. Fourie
14. JPP
15. F Steyn
Ahh just looking at that backline makes me feel better.
29 Jul 2010, 11:59 am
The loose forward combo I’d like to see:
6. Brussow
7. Smith
8. Burger
And coming in at a close second:
6. Burger
7. Smith
8. Van Niekerk
29 Jul 2010, 12:00 pm
@puff(puff)-58:
Good side
-Hougaard hasnt played 9 in over 12 months though
-Bring back JPP at 14,play Aplon at 15 (Frans wont be back anytime soon)
-Guthro to stay at 1-has been best SA fwd,best 1 in 3N IMO.Beast off bench-great impact
29 Jul 2010, 12:01 pm
@race of tan(race of tan)-61:
Don’t look at me, mate.
I didn’t spear-tackle an opponent and cop four weeks on the sideline.
The team I highlighted include players who are available to play the ABs at soccer city.
29 Jul 2010, 12:04 pm
PUFF – Ahh yes i forgot ek se!!!
Where on earth is Adi Jacobs?
12. Adi
13. JDV
Would be are best option IMO!!
29 Jul 2010, 12:04 pm
@puff(puff)-62:
Puff…your still on about Big Joe??
The loss in muscle mass,lack of conditioning & fact that there are a few 8′s in SA who are at least in same class at present doesnt bode well for Joe.Plus Welsh test didnt do him no favours.
Needs to come back home to compete for a place in RWC2011
29 Jul 2010, 12:04 pm
PUFF – Inverse funtion:-
12. JDV
13. Adi
29 Jul 2010, 12:04 pm
But since you asked:
1. Mtawarira/Steenkamp
2. Smit
3. Botha
4. Botha
5. Matfield
6. Brussow
7. Smith
8. Burger
9. Du Preez
10. Steyn
11. Habana
12. De Villiers
13. Fourie
14. Pieterson
15. Steyn
16. Du Plessis
17. Van Der Linde
18. Rossouw/Bekker
19. Van Niekerk
20. Pienaar/Hougaard
21. James
22. De Jongh
29 Jul 2010, 12:07 pm
@mshiniwami(mshiniwami)-66:
Would choose Van Niekerk over Spies.
But:
6. Brussow
7. Smith
8. Burger
Would be my first-choice trio.
Burger’s linking and passing game has improved exponentially.
Will need to bring on an 8 with more pace some time in the second half though – this is where Spies would be really effective. But so would Kanko and Van Niekerk.
29 Jul 2010, 12:12 pm
puff – Your loosies are on the money. J Smith would be a good stand in captian when Matfield is rested.
Your team #68 Is probably going to be the Boks RWC2011 team unless Snor has a meltdown, excellent lineup!!
29 Jul 2010, 12:12 pm
@puff(puff)-68:
Smit is a waste of time – Bissy, Tiaan or Gary way better and make Matfield captain.
Botha (4) a waste of time and a walking yellow.
29 Jul 2010, 12:13 pm
Slate – think you are onto something there…Habana to fullback ala Muliaina
29 Jul 2010, 12:13 pm
@puff(puff)-68:
Good side, as long as Smit and Matfield are off at 50/60 mins and the bench is used correctly.
Only issue for me is there isn’t a great deal of pace in that back 3. For wet fields on the EOYT that will be fine though.
29 Jul 2010, 12:16 pm
BILL_REYTS – I still reckong puffs team #68 shold be the blu print Snor needs to work from and decide who needs to be rested for eg:-
Smit
Matfield
And bring in the next in line players accordingley.
White always knew who his first choice 22 players were and he stuck to them vehemently.
Snor needs to follow suit now, and PUFFS team #68 is the bu print he shold be working from and make the changes from that it!!
29 Jul 2010, 12:19 pm
The reason Steyn is precious to the boks is because of his kicking ability. Nothing else in his game (maybe tackling) warrants greatness. That said he IS great for us. Have you noticed how our Australasian counterparts have been kicking the ball straight up-field daring us to counter and we’ve had no answer. Well with Frans there he would just take a drop. The fear of 3 points would put an end to this tactic. So untill we have a springbok side that can actually counter-attack with real venom, Frans Steyn remains a key cog in our ‘attack’.
This said, I don’t think Kirchner has played badly (one of our better backs) and we should give him the rest of the 3N. After all we need a replacement in case Steyn gets injured. Bring back Steyn for the EOYT.
29 Jul 2010, 12:20 pm
@puff(puff)-69:
Fair enough..Spies is rubbish at present
BUT
Do you honestly see Burger as an 8?
29 Jul 2010, 12:20 pm
@race of tan(race of tan)-74:
I actually like his team too. The sooner we realise that Smit is finished the better. Can’t keep a passenger captain on the field anymore. He has been given his chance and is not performing. His leadership has been sorely lacking and by watching the games you would have noticed that Matfield was more of the leader than Smit was as he was panting after twenty minutes. Bakkies must take his package and go play in France. He has no place in this team. Enforcer – he doesn’t understand the role so get rid of him.
29 Jul 2010, 12:21 pm
@mshiniwami(mshiniwami)-76:
No Vermeulen or Alberts. Vermeulen is quicker than most think, so the speed excuse don’t work here. Had the quickest loose trio last week and what happened – they were nowhere.
29 Jul 2010, 12:22 pm
We can argue all day but I guarentee you Spies will start and Smit will be there too.
29 Jul 2010, 12:24 pm
I personally think out best loose trio would be:
Brussow
Smith
Vermuelen
I know Schalk is a great, but he’s not the best at either 6,7 or 8. So play him off the bench to cover all 3. Kanko and Spies aren’t up to this level unless as impact players.
29 Jul 2010, 12:25 pm
Bill Reyts – I actually haven’t been watching the games just highlights on youtube. I thought Gary Botha did enuff in S14 to get a nod at test level and D Roussouw is playing very well at this stage of his career. However when Bakkies is on form is he still the best we have plus he needs gametime. But yes probably Smit needs to be rested or start playing limited game time so PDV can blood another Hooker, we have about 3 now, plus when Bissie the psycho returns he will be the front runner anyway.
29 Jul 2010, 12:27 pm
@race of tan(race of tan)-70:
Still not sure about BJ Botha.
Have yet to see him truly dominate at test level.
Plus I’ve never really seen him being effective in the loose or at ruck time.
Van Der Linde hasn’t had a decent test in the longest time.
Mshini is correct. My hopes re Big Joe is probably wishful thinking on my part.
Jury’s also out on whether James still has what it takes at the top level.
He was awesome at the last World Cup.
But in 2008 he was woeful for the Boks.
Olivier is NOT the answer at 12.
Kirchner isn’t the answer at 15.
I was a Ricky supporter for the longest time, but I am finally convinced that his time is over.
However, I do not agree that the same can be said for John Smit.
And as for those calling him Plod on this site…
29 Jul 2010, 12:27 pm
If we can’t get Frans then I’ll go with Riaan Viljoen. He runs beautifully from the back and his boot is nearly as big as Fransie’s
29 Jul 2010, 12:28 pm
@Ratel Brussow(Morne Steyn is under-rated)-80:
Really good trio that! Bench option also a good one. Spies and Kanko only good for impact in the last 20 mins.
29 Jul 2010, 12:28 pm
@Bill Reyts(Gumboots)-71:
Calling John Smit and Bakkies Botha a waste of time.
You know your rugby.
NOT
29 Jul 2010, 12:28 pm
JC why are who harping on fullback when its the lack of a genuine fetcher in the side that is clearly the major problem and is killing our momentum and defense?
29 Jul 2010, 12:29 pm
@Yetirat(Yetirat)-73:
Fair comments.
29 Jul 2010, 12:34 pm
@Ratel Brussow(Morne Steyn is under-rated)-80:
Vermeulen needs to get the selfishness out of his game.
Reminds me of a young Juan Smith.
But he will evolve.
A similar comment can be made about Jean Deysel.
I’d play Vermeulen ahead of Spies.
29 Jul 2010, 12:35 pm
@puff(puff)-85:
Read my comments Puff – Smit puffs after twenty minutes and his leadership is sorely lacking because of his fitness. He was never the best 2 and you know that. He was in the team for his captaincy. His captaincy now is non existant.
Regarding Bakkies. He is a thug and I will never want him near my team every again. Brain dead and a serial offender.
Bakkies is an embarrassment to rugby and anyone who promotes that knows there rugby – NOT
29 Jul 2010, 12:36 pm
there – their – eish
29 Jul 2010, 12:38 pm
@puff(puff)-87:
Sorry, should have mentioned I was referring to the 6/7/8 combo rather than the 11/14/15 combo.
29 Jul 2010, 12:40 pm
Best team at present possibly this (experimental) with subs:
1 Beast
2 Liebenberg/ Deon Fourie
3 BJ Botha/ Werner Kruger
4 Franco v d Merwe
5 Matfield (captain)/ Becker
6 Brussouw
7 Juan Smith/ Duane Vermeulen
8 Pierre Spies (thought he played well in that last test and got really `physical for a change)
9 Fourie Du Preez/ Sarel Pretorius
10 Morne Steyn/ Ruan Pienaar
11 Habana (if form picks up)
12 Juan de Jongh
13 Jacques Fourie/ Francois Houghaard
14 between JP Pietersen/ Aplon and Mvovo or Mapoe
15 Patrick Lambie or Riaan Viljoen – possibly Steyn
29 Jul 2010, 12:40 pm
Has anyone else noticed how quiet Tacitus has been since the Cheetahs’ dramatic win over the Bulls?
29 Jul 2010, 12:41 pm
@Bill Reyts(Gumboots)-89:
“Bakkies is an embarrassment to rugby and anyone who promotes that knows there rugby – NOT”
you
are beginning
to confuse
yourself
even
with a
their
eish
29 Jul 2010, 12:43 pm
@Porra the Fat and Clever Speedster(Porra)-94:
Yes Miss Piggy!
29 Jul 2010, 12:43 pm
Aplogies forgot about Bismarck cos of his injury so 2 should read Bismrack/ Liebenberg
AS you can see plenty of fast and ball stealing forwards to kill them at the breakdown – all possible fetchers of the ball -
Beast/ Bismarck/ Liebenberg/ Franco vd Merwe/ Brussouw/ Vermeulen.
I´d like to see them counter that. If there was space id inlcude guys like Gurthro, Danie Rossouw, Willem Aberts and maybe even old Ashley Johnson.
29 Jul 2010, 12:44 pm
@Yetirat(Yetirat)-93:
let
this fat
porra
tell you
even with
two losses
in a row
the bulls team
is awesome
29 Jul 2010, 12:46 pm
@Ratel Brussow(Morne Steyn is under-rated)-80: Spot on mate
29 Jul 2010, 12:46 pm
@Porra the Fat and Clever Speedster(Porra)-97:
Three after Saturday!
29 Jul 2010, 12:48 pm
@pokkel(pokkel)-83: Hes definitely up there
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