‘Kings something special’
4 Aug 2010
Alan Solomons has hit back at criticism around the racial make-up of the Eastern Province Kings team.
On Monday, Simon Borchardt argued that the Kings should walk the talk when it comes to transformation, even though they are currently top of the Currie Cup First Division with wins over Boland, a Griffons side boosted by Free State players, and Border.
The make-up of the side for the last match against Boland consisted of four black players, but director of rugby Solomons brushed this off.
‘Mpho Mbiyozo was injured and for the first time this season less than a third of the side was black,’ Solomons told keo.co.za. ‘But that’s not what this team’s all about. There’s no numbers game and everyone is picked on merit. There is a relaxed atmosphere at training and guys speak English, Afrikaans and Xhosa. The black guys feel at home more than they do elsewhere.
‘I’ve selected a leadership group of six players, and only De Wet Barry isn’t from the Eastern Cape,’ added Solomons in mentioning Tiger Mangweni, Mzwandile Stick, Darron Nell, Rory Duncan, and Mbiyozo. ‘De Wet’s committed himself to the region, an example of that is him learning to speak Xhosa.
‘You can see from all the players’ body language how happy they are to be back home. My motto is bring them home and keep them home. They want to be part of something special.’
Solomons also noted how the complexion of the side changes from week to week according to availability, with this Saturday’s clash against the Valke consisting of eight players of colour (six of whom will start). He also added that the assistant coach is David Maidza and the CEO is Anele Pamba, while the majority of the back-room staff, from the physios to the manager, are also black.
Solomons has only been working full-time at the union for two months, and already the signs of progress are there. He believes the franchise will be ready for Super Rugby in a year and a half’s time.
‘As far as I’m concerned, we’ve been given unequivocal backing and a guarantee from Saru that we’ll be playing Super Rugby in 2013. We’re putting structures in place and I feel we’ll be ready a year by 2012. It’s got to happen now.
‘Although not every South African has links with the Eastern Cape, we should all be working together to support the union, not criticise it.
‘I’d love it if every black player who’s been developed in this region came back, because they get lost at some other unions. Without a Super Rugby franchise in the Eastern Cape they’ve had no aspirational pathway and their aspirations have been ignored. It’s going to be tough, but we’ve started a process.
‘We’re doing our best with the professional team, but it’s also about under-pinning that with high performance teams. We’ve begun working with the schools, age-group sides and universities in the region, which hasn’t been the case in the past as there’s essentially been no professional rugby here, and therefore none of the professional structures.’
Included in this process is building stronger relationships with the schools so that players don’t leave the region before they’ve finished their Matric, as is currently the case.
‘We’re undertaking a road trip to the top 27 schools in the region with guys like Danie Gerber and Robbie Kempson.
‘At times we might go sideways or a little backwards, but ultimately we’re moving forward. People in the region have seen what’s happening and interest is rising. We must also remember that we had the most representative rugby crowd for the Kings’ match against the Lions last year, which shows the interest and hunger for sport across all racial groups.’
By Grant Ball
546 Comments
4 Aug 2010, 08:50 am
Hmmmmm
4 Aug 2010, 08:52 am
Copy and paste article or just edited?
4 Aug 2010, 08:54 am
The whole article with inverted commas?
4 Aug 2010, 08:54 am
Hoop hulle koop January asap
4 Aug 2010, 08:55 am
BTW the Kings will easily runaway with the Lame Lions
4 Aug 2010, 08:55 am
@Mighty Horua(Mighty Horua)-3: Even the title
4 Aug 2010, 08:56 am
@Disa(Disa)-4:Wynand Olivier and Spies
4 Aug 2010, 08:56 am
Great job Alan, keep it up, you have far more supporters for a Kings franchise than might seem apparent reading these blogs.
4 Aug 2010, 08:57 am
strike with the forces of king solomon!
4 Aug 2010, 08:57 am
@David(David)-8: Dont think anyone opposes the idea except some Lions and Cheetah fans
4 Aug 2010, 08:58 am
Solly’s been a bit of a fraud all his life, really. All sizzle; no steak. He virtually ruined Northants by pretending he knew a bit about coaching when he didn’t.
4 Aug 2010, 08:58 am
Um, no they’re not
4 Aug 2010, 09:00 am
For Grant, John Smits Twitter this morning “And to those concerned, not 2 worry I’m psyched for the next 3 games & training hard with the boys to get it right”
4 Aug 2010, 09:00 am
This is good to hear. They cant be any worse than the Lions.
4 Aug 2010, 09:01 am
Sorry Solly, you talk the talk but in the years I have kept an interest in the region and their rugby every single guy has basically only talked a good game.
Unfortunately I think the success or future success of this team is not in your hands, if it was, I would have believed what you said – years of following this show however has shown me that the calls that matter are made by administrators and not rugby people like yourself and the players.
And ultimately a union or franchise can only be as strong as its administration and I don’t have much faith in yours.
4 Aug 2010, 09:02 am
After the Sharks performance this year, it would be best if they link with Kings and play all the games in PE.
4 Aug 2010, 09:03 am
@Disa(Disa)-13: Dont worry about Grant he’s a stubborn douchebag the majority of the time.
4 Aug 2010, 09:04 am
All of Wp’s surplus talented youngsters can go to the Kings.
4 Aug 2010, 09:04 am
@Disa(Disa)-10:
If whatever happens, happens under a merit system there will be no complaints.
4 Aug 2010, 09:07 am
simon borchardt can go jump off a cliff, we don’t need his backing or his snide articles. I say f*ck him! EP Kings on the Rise!
Your kind Simon will not stop or deter us! You can try though!
4 Aug 2010, 09:08 am
The Kings are for the people. To redress the failure and inequality of the old regime!
4 Aug 2010, 09:10 am
@PissAnt(PissAnt)-15:
Which of the administrators do you feel are the problem?
4 Aug 2010, 09:12 am
@PissAnt(PissAnt)-15: please elaborate on these administrators you don’t believe in and why you don’t. You might enlighten a person like myself.
4 Aug 2010, 09:12 am
@Transformation(Transformation)-23: Cheeky
4 Aug 2010, 09:17 am
@JUSM(JUSM)-9: Let bygones be bygones and so on and so on…!
4 Aug 2010, 09:18 am
Its a good long term investment for our rugby but its going to hell in the short term.
4 Aug 2010, 09:18 am
@Mighty Horua(Mighty Horua)-7: When these players start to hate winning trophies, they will consider a move to – what will be the laughing stock of the S16 in 2013.
Schalk and Jacques could consider it though…seeing that they’re not that used to winning trophies!
4 Aug 2010, 09:20 am
@Transformation(Transformation)-23:
So far Cheeky has actually impressed me!
But get in contact with someone at the union, or even Solly himself.
Ask him how only a few weeks back, one of his players was basically fired by an administrator mentioned in this article, told he was not welcome anymore only because the player wanted more time to consider an offer from the union to extend his contract – specifically from what I can imagine seeing if the Kings stands a chance of making it to the CC premier division which will affect his future directly (if they did or did not).
All this done without even the knowledge of the coach…
4 Aug 2010, 09:20 am
@UnbeataBULL(UnbeataBULL)-27: S.A players returning from overseas might consider the Kings an option.
4 Aug 2010, 09:20 am
I for one think that this is great. Where can i get a supporters jersey. I’m in.
@PissAnt(PissAnt)-15: All administrators are ars3holes. It comes with the territory. by nature they are either people who can talk and not do OR could do and now can’t talk. Very Very rarely are do they possess both skills. Its that age old thing in sport. those who have the time to manage a sports club don’t have the skill and those that have the skill don’t have the time (early career).
As Al Sol Mentioned there is no professional structure, which is what the problem is.
On the field I have been very impressed with their game, attitude and commitment. Name still sucks, but so do most of them “The lions” GGGGGRRRRRRRRRRR!
4 Aug 2010, 09:23 am
@UnbeataBULL(UnbeataBULL)-27: Onthou julle was ook eens die laughing stock van die S12/14, dinge verander binne een seisoen
4 Aug 2010, 09:24 am
@Observer(tbannaz)-30:
I like Solly and I like what he is doing, but as the story with the Spears went from 2005 already the success of this team has been hampered and sabotaged by administrators and I don’t see this change much, unfortunately.
4 Aug 2010, 09:25 am
@PissAnt(PissAnt)-28: sure thanks, i’m in the Transkei this week, will make some inquiries when i get back next week.
4 Aug 2010, 09:25 am
@iori Yagami(iori Yagami)-29: The Kings will have to dig deep if want to buy players of quality. I dont know how deep their pockets are, but yeah, you’re right. Pleyers returning from various parts of the worlds have already made their money, so they might be a good option. However, if they return, will they still be able to compete on S14/15/16 level?
Time will tell!
4 Aug 2010, 09:27 am
@UnbeataBULL(UnbeataBULL)-27: the Lions and Cheetahs are already the laughing stock of the S14. Just to take you a few years back when the Bulls were the a.rse of the laughing stock!! BWT both are 3N and WC winners!
4 Aug 2010, 09:29 am
Aaaaag snot man.
4 Aug 2010, 09:29 am
@UnbeataBULL(UnbeataBULL)-34: They could just buy quality from the WP craven week, Maties, UCT. Just like Bulls
4 Aug 2010, 09:31 am
@Mighty Horua(Mighty Horua)-37:
There is no reason for this region to become hugely successful. But throughout the years they seem to be their own worst enemy.
I really hope this time is different.
4 Aug 2010, 09:32 am
@UnbeataBULL(UnbeataBULL)-34: Ja true about the money. Ja not sure how competitive they will be. They can offer great experience to the younger players coming through.
4 Aug 2010, 09:32 am
@Disa(Disa)-31: Yeah, you’re right. I just hope that their sponsors will be willing to pay the big bucks for
1: Player development at grassroot level
2: Buying quality players to be competative untill their player development structure starts to pay divident.
With political involvement at the Kings, I’m not convinced that they money from the sposors will be utilized in the best interrest of the franchise.
Just my honest opinion…
4 Aug 2010, 09:36 am
@PissAnt(PissAnt)-38: me too
4 Aug 2010, 09:39 am
@Transformation(Transformation)-20:
Quit making a fool of yourself as per normal have some self respect!
Solly… most South Africans would probably give the region some more kudos once they can show they can string together a competitive CC or even VC side, build some decent structures, get a few sponsors and stop pissing away funds through maladministration and corruption.
It’s not too much to ask, and it’s not going to be a quick route… good luck!
4 Aug 2010, 09:40 am
bleck white bleck white bleck white
blah blah blah
solly for you (you talka da shite outta your bunghole)
“the black guys feel at home more than they do elsewhere”
why?
is the EC the only place black people are at home?
gtfoh.
4 Aug 2010, 09:42 am
I’m glad to see the Kings progressing and getting good results in the B division of the Currie Cup. However, I would really like to see Border, EP and SWD merged into one combined union and regularly competing in the CC 1st division. A combined union in the 1st division would attract more support and therefore more sponsorship funding. Funds would also be spread over a much smaller player base, therefore allowing more money to be invested in fewer, better players. With this in place, a focus on keeping the best school players in the Eastern Cape region until Matric, and then keeping the very best of them in a good academy and junior set-up after matric would be the next priority. This could be in conjunction with NMMU in the Varsity Cup – a 5 year plan to see NMMU competing with the likes of UCT and Stellenbosch. Consolidation of three small, barely viable unions into one leaner, stronger union would be a massive plus for SA rugby. I do hear those here who question the track record of administrators in the region in terms of management and integrity, but perhaps a combination of carefully choosing the right leadership and appointing an independent auditor for the first 5 years to monitor financial management might help.
4 Aug 2010, 09:43 am
@Mighty Horua(Mighty Horua)-37: Then you just need a good coaching clinic, and the trophies will start coming in….
4 Aug 2010, 09:43 am
@UnbeataBULL(UnbeataBULL)-40: last year was the first year this union had an unqualified audit in something like 14 years, they have the PE chamber of commerce palying an overseeing role on administration. Theyy have made quite a vast improvement from the previous inept administration!
People like Danie Gerber were skeptical at first and as Solly says they’re in the mix now.
It won’t be perfect but it is a step in the right direction. It seems to me a lot of people are quite comfortable or are happy to have this province struggling or in a constant quagmire. But sorry boys we’re on the Rise.
4 Aug 2010, 09:46 am
@UnbeataBULL(UnbeataBULL)-40: I got my reservations as well for the same reasons you stated above, no doubt there is some huge talent in the Eastern Cape though.
Lets hope for the best as it will only make SA rugby stronger, not weaker
4 Aug 2010, 09:46 am
@money_man(money_man)-42: f*ck off money_man, you and all of those you sail with. You’ve got nothing on me squire, i want fokkol from you
4 Aug 2010, 09:47 am
@Transformation(Transformation)-20: In the past two years I have written three SA Rugby magazine editorials urging Saru to include the Kings in Super Rugby. On Monday, I merely pointed out some facts – that last Saturday, the EP Kings had just four black players in their starting XV and that their coach, president and franchise CEO are white. I’m glad to hear that six black players will be in their XV this weekend, that the CEO of the EPRFU is black and that there are plans in place to develop a black head coach (although I’m amazed that 16 years after democracy we are still talking about developing black coaches).
4 Aug 2010, 09:50 am
It has come to light that the “protection of information” act will be invoked for the first season of the kings participation in superrugby.
local spokesman Comfortable Blackman said today “dont expect to see results in the first season of superrugby. what is this fixation with results? we are doing this to protect the people”.
Meanwhile, in other news, keo has apologised to PdV for laying into him after Bob Dwyer said “the All Blacks are the biggest cheats in rugby”
and Bob is no clown.
4 Aug 2010, 09:50 am
@Simon(Simon)-49:
“(although I’m amazed that 16 years after democracy we are still talking about developing black coaches).”
Exactly, every single RSA national rugby team is headed by a coach of colour.
4 Aug 2010, 09:51 am
@Transformation(Transformation)-46: That can only be good for SA rugby! I must be honest, I am not too up to date with the management of the Kings’ finances. If that can be managed properly, there is NO reason why the franchise can not be successful.
I just feel that they’re pushing the S16 thing too quickly. I will be the 1st to swollow my words if the make it to the Top halve of the log.
Good luck to them!
4 Aug 2010, 09:52 am
@bok2007(bok2007)-25: ghetto superstar
lol that’s pretty funny actually
4 Aug 2010, 09:53 am
@Transformation(Transformation)-46: The PE chamber of commerce?
isnt that a bit like the book of italian war heroes?
p.s. oversight is only as good as the people involved (are they black btw?)
4 Aug 2010, 09:57 am
ok, ok.
i dont want to sound like i hate the idea of a strong EP.
because i dont. i loved the EP team when they played premier division cc. all heart.
domkrag et al.
so good luck kings!
whoop whoop!
4 Aug 2010, 10:00 am
The Kings are all talk about being a Black Union but when they have to pick a team to perform they dont play the players of colour! Think last year of the game against the British Lions, they had only 4 players of colour! So when the chips are on the table you will rather choose the best and forger about the politics.
Rather just say that this is a union that will have a black management.
A team with a mix of all nationality’s will be a stronger unit than a team of only one kind.
If the all black where indeed al black they would be not much better than Tonga.
4 Aug 2010, 10:04 am
@Mighty Horua(Mighty Horua)-35: We’re not talking intl. rugby here.
You’ve just made my point. The Lions and Cheetahs are already the laughing stock. Now you want SA to hold the bottom 3 positions?
I hope they manage to get it right, but I dont see it happening in 3 years!
4 Aug 2010, 10:09 am
@Simon(Simon)-49: You didn’t know about Pamba? He has been there over a year now. You wrote your snide “quota” article last Monday calling it “facts”, when you never even knew what the story behind the sellection was, or that the CEO was black.
How pathetic are you! Your are supposed to be a “rugby journalist” and you do not even know the story about a team playing in your own country!
Next time, get off your arse and get the correct information. GO FIND OUT before you write k@k.
4 Aug 2010, 10:10 am
Again with this subject. The day SA Rugby solves this will be the day PdV wins us our 5th World Cup.
4 Aug 2010, 10:17 am
@Simon(Simon)-49: what the hell man! When solly says the guy is the assistant coach, where do you read that David Maidza is being developed? Ffs transform your thinking!
4 Aug 2010, 10:19 am
@rossoneri(rossoneri)-58: Dude, that was uncalled for!If you dont like what you read, get off the farking site. No-one is forcing you to read what is written here!!!
4 Aug 2010, 10:21 am
@rossoneri(rossoneri)-58: The CEO I was referring to was the CEO of the Kings franchise, Stephan Pretorius. And I said that only four black players were in the EP XV last weekend, which is true.
4 Aug 2010, 10:22 am
@PissAnt(PissAnt)-15: You should have faith in the administration, how else can the admin prove itself than getting its first clean audit in 10 years, it took the current admin less than 14months to get that right, what more can/should they do!!!!!!
4 Aug 2010, 10:26 am
@XhosaKid(XhosaKid)-63:
My mail to you keeps bouncing. Do you have a cell?
4 Aug 2010, 10:27 am
@rossoneri(rossoneri)-58: a team in your own country?
is this a team you support or not?
4 Aug 2010, 10:27 am
@XhosaKid(XhosaKid)-63: uSimon bayasinyela kodwa, the best thing is to ignore him. What was the point of the bean counting article?
4 Aug 2010, 10:29 am
@Transformation(Transformation)-33: Gcuwa?, was there two weeks ago
4 Aug 2010, 10:29 am
@XhosaKid(XhosaKid)-63:
I actually had a lot of faith in all of them, until they (or one guy at least) started interfering in rugby matters which had nothing to do with him.
As good as Solly is for the union, if this is how they are going to do things his hands will be cut off.
4 Aug 2010, 10:30 am
@Transformation(Transformation)-60: I swear. He didn’t even bother to contact them when he wrote that **** last Monday, today he is told David is the assistant coach, his racist mind translates that as “development”.
4 Aug 2010, 10:30 am
@Transformation(Transformation)-66: ask our government pal. they are the ones who will punish the kings if their EE isnt up to scratch.
they talk the talk now they must walk the walk transie. dont ignore the point just because you dont like it.
4 Aug 2010, 10:33 am
anyhoo, i have the feeling this thread may degenerate into a anc-for-all so i am off.
have a pleasant day all and go the kings!
4 Aug 2010, 10:33 am
@UnbeataBULL(UnbeataBULL)-61: So you are happy for Simon to write lies. BLATANT LIES! And not be questioned about them?
And please, the fact that you are calling me dude means you have no idea who I am.
4 Aug 2010, 10:34 am
“Cheeky Watson upset with Kings story on keo.co.za. Said he was classified black by ANC in apartheid era.”
Haaaahaaaahaaaahaaaaaa!!!
4 Aug 2010, 10:34 am
@rangerman(rangerman)-71: Good. I am tired of your negative **** anyway.
I am seriously starting to think that ET’s views about people in Natal has some merit.
4 Aug 2010, 10:35 am
@Great White Shark(Predawn)-73: Typical response from Durban Shark scum.
4 Aug 2010, 10:35 am
@XhosaKid(XhosaKid)-67: yeah…
4 Aug 2010, 10:35 am
@rossoneri(rossoneri)-72:
Read Simons Post 62. Dude. He never lied about a thing.
4 Aug 2010, 10:36 am
@rossoneri(rossoneri)-58:
..otherwise known as a sociopath. What an insane rant.
4 Aug 2010, 10:37 am
Yeah I am gone too, this thread is going South quickly
4 Aug 2010, 10:37 am
@rossoneri(rossoneri)-75:
*Meeeeeeeeooooooooooooow*
4 Aug 2010, 10:37 am
@rangerman(rangerman)-70: K@k. No government. Certainly not ours will endorsed a racially sellected team EVER! Think to why the Moari’s could not play against the Boks, just last year.
The idea was to develop black talent as the other unions are not doing enough.
Ask yourself how long Stick was at the Sharks and what they did for his career?
4 Aug 2010, 10:38 am
@rossoneri(rossoneri)-72: AND neither do I care! DUDE!
All I know is that you’re on a website where YOU choose to be on. And instead of adding constructive critisism, you make snotty remarks and accusations.
4 Aug 2010, 10:38 am
Me too…hmph!
4 Aug 2010, 10:39 am
@John Galt(John Galt)-77: By saying “oh the kings said they must transform, but I’m counting only 4 black guys on the pitch. Ahaa. Wonder why? Oooooh they must walk the way.”
This week. He bothered to farking find out why! Instead of speculating his own ****, and writing it here.
4 Aug 2010, 10:41 am
@UnbeataBULL(UnbeataBULL)-82: Have you read your snide comments? Pot calling kettle black. And the only person I am going at is Simon. It’s part of his job to take it.
Are you his PR guy?
4 Aug 2010, 10:44 am
@rossoneri(rossoneri)-85: Pot calling kettle black? Why issit always colour with you okes?
Im outta here!
4 Aug 2010, 10:50 am
Last time I checked. Developing talent be it black or white was the responsibility of all the unions under SARU. NOT JUST THE KINGS!
What has transpired is that SARU does their best to deter the KINGS, and the rest of the unions appear to get away with not doing enough.
The tragedy is on this site there is a POll saying “should the Kings play more black players”.
WTF?
Shouldn’t it say, should all the unions not do more? Is the intention of SARU to saddle player development only at one union whom they give virtually no support to? Is that the plan of the President’s Counsel? Make EP the black player haven and get them out of the Bulls, Sharks, Lions, Cheetah’s and Stormers?
How farked up is this thinking? And how ridiculous.
4 Aug 2010, 10:50 am
@John Galt(John Galt)-77: the Southern Kings and the EPRFU are different entities! Cheeky is the President of EPRFU; Anele Pamba is the CEO of EPRFU
the Southern Kings is an amalgamation of Border, EPRFU & SWD and their CEO is stephan pretorius!
The 4 players simon is crowing about are EP Kings/EPRFU players. Border have their own pool of players, SWD have their own pool of players when you combine those and other players the union might purchase to bolster their squad, then team might look different. But we know that is not what Simon was looking for, so again f*ck him and his misinformed bean counting article.
4 Aug 2010, 10:51 am
@UnbeataBULL(UnbeataBULL)-86: Peace. And I am not an oke.
4 Aug 2010, 10:51 am
“We must also remember that we had the most representative rugby crowd for the Kings’ match against the Lions last year, which shows the interest and hunger for sport across all racial groups.”
thats quite a *BOLD* statement
4 Aug 2010, 10:54 am
@Transformation(Transformation)-88: Agreed. Simon’s farked up agenda is clear as mud.
Simons ought to walk the walk and go get the truth (like a real journalist does) instead of inventing versions to suit his agendas.
4 Aug 2010, 10:55 am
@Papoose(papaown)-90: I was there. And there was no need to take the match to the townships to make it happen.
4 Aug 2010, 10:56 am
how do i make a comment bold??
bold
4 Aug 2010, 10:59 am
I see Keo’s own 3 ‘race-cardteers’ have arrived to bring down the tone of the site.
All it needs now is for skopskiet, and a few others and their own ‘Clifton beach Joe Slovo’ G10 to arrive and there’ll be another cracking brain-less ‘rebel without a cause’ toi-toi session.
Off with the rest to ‘real’ rugby discussions!
4 Aug 2010, 11:02 am
@Papoose(papaown)-93: you put the words in between these your words omit all the dots when you do it though…
4 Aug 2010, 11:03 am
@Papoose(papaown)-93:
Like this.
4 Aug 2010, 11:03 am
@WP Till I Die(WP-Forever)-96:
Oops.
4 Aug 2010, 11:04 am
@money_man(money_man)-94: doos, the article is about RACE!!!!! Simon asked why there were only 4 black players.
4 Aug 2010, 11:04 am
@WP Till I Die(WP-Forever)-96:
Maybe it works now.
4 Aug 2010, 11:04 am
who gives a rats *** where the players are from anyhows??
its a professional game and players can play for whom they want
if some choose to play for EP good luck to them, same if players wanna play elsewhere and not for EP thats their choice
4 Aug 2010, 11:05 am
@WP Till I Die(WP-Forever)-97: hahaha i tried too but couldn’t…
4 Aug 2010, 11:05 am
@rossoneri(rossoneri)-89: What is you then?
4 Aug 2010, 11:05 am
This long, but **** IT!!!, its the truth and this is what scares the so called “big” unions.
Finding the Solution to the Kings/Spears Saga
It is fact that Rugby and Cricket have mirrored each other since inception, that is going back to the early century in Kimberly, when both rugby and the cricket Currie Cup began. One would argue that to a certain extent they still do, the only difference now is that CSA was brave and progressive enough to realize that in order to sustain a competitive and fair championship, hard decision had to be made and they were made. A quick glance at what first class cricket was like will reveal the following:
1. 11 “Provinces” contested the Championship
2. NTVL, Easterns , TVL , NW, Griquas , FS, Boland, EP, WP, Border, Natal
Clearly that was not sustainable, there was no way that Border or EP were going to compete with NTVL, TVL or WP on their own, yet both these “provinces” had over 100 years of history, tradition and pride but economic migration dictated that more often than not, they would lose players to the bigger provinces. Also taking into account transformation goals and the fact that the highest concentration of black/coloured players and cricket playing schools are situated in that part of the country, it became inevitable that the bigger provinces would do their grocery shopping down there, therefore rendering both EP and Border cricket to where their rugby is, currently.
In the early 2000’s, CSA went the professional route, they solicited a professional solution based on facts rather than gnashing of emotion which was unavoidable taking into account that 5 or 6 “provinces” were to become obsolete or relegated to amateur cricket, had CSA decided on the vote instead of the professional route, it would have been a stalemate, non of the “provinces” presidents would have voted themselves out, despite being fully aware that the likes of Boland, Border, NW, Easterns will never , or at least, not for the next 50 years be able to challenge the economically bigger provinces, sanity and logic had to prevail and it did.
At the time, Easterns Cricket for an example had over 20 clubs that were affiliated with the union, the actual Easterns squad had Darryl Cullinan , Andre Nel and Ray Jennings for a coach, more importantly Easterns had just won the Supersport Series the previous year, they protested at the time that NTVL should be the ones who must merge with them, NTVL hadn’t won the Cup in over 100 years of competition, the rest is history, the Titans ( Easterns and NTVL) is now one of the leading franchise, they have won the Cup two years in a row, Centurion and Willlowmore Park are the homegrounds.
Back to CSA, after receiving a professional report they had requested from the countries leading accounting firm and consultants, the hard decision was made, it was not pretty, as peoples livelihoods were at stake, the Supersport Series was reduced to 6 franchises,
1. Cobras ( WP plus Boland)
2. Warriors ( EP and Border)
3. Eagles ( FS)
4. Lions ( TVL)
5. Titans ( Easterns and NTVL)
6. Dolphins ( Natal)
7 years later, the Warriors ( EP and Border) is now also one of the leading franchise in the league, egos that were swallowed half a decade ago are now bearing fruits, the fights over whether St Georges or Buffalo Park would be the home ground are a thing of the past, the Warriors happily won the MTN 40 at Buffalo Park beating Dolphins ( Natal) and they have also made it to the Pro20 final having disposed of Cobras (WP + Boland), guess, what, they won it as well and they are boasting a team of Prince( EP), Kallis ( WP), Mark Boucher ( Border), Wayne Parnell ( EP), Tsotsobe ( EP) Ntini
( Border), Johan Botha ( TVL), that’s 7 Proteas of which 5 are born and bread in the Eastern Cape, not only that, 22 out of the 26 contracted players are from the Eastern Cape. This means that young/ school boys in the region who have chosen cricket as a career do not have to leave the province to join historical bigger province. A good example is Colin Ingram,( will be a Protea by end of the year),Colin Ackerman, a talented school boy from Grey PE, doesn’t have to move to Natal or Bloem to fulfill his career, if he fails in his endeavor to became a professional cricketer, which he wont considering his talent, he can consider going drinking beer at Rhodes University or at UPE, that is if he doesn’t fancy Fort Hare.
Now that the cricket lesson is over, one hopes that the readers were able to draw similarities and parallels with rugby. Currently the Currie Cup Premier division is contested by 8 teams of which only 5 teams realistically plan to win it in any given year.
What is stopping SARU from adopting the same franchise system that CSA adopted for cricket, its simple and it makes sense, one just has to look at the logs from previous years
2009 Absa Currie Cup
Sharks
Western Province
Blue Bulls
Free State Cheetahs
GWK Griquas
Golden Lions
Platinum Leopards
Boland Cavaliers
Leopards and Boland simply have no reason to exist in the Premier division,no any of the minnows who might be promoted to the Premier Division, they are cannon fodder, what SARU has to do is to adopt a franchise system mirroring cricket, this will mean
1. Bulls = Titans
2. Lions = Lions ( Like freaken bastaards!!)
3. Cheetahs = Eagles
4. WP = Cobras
5. Sharks = Dolphins
6. Kings/Warriors
This will reduce the number of games players have to play and will also increase the intensity of the competition. Taking lessons from the cricket franchise system, the provinces will continue to exist just like they do in cricket but on an amateur basis, a franchise system will enable best players to play against each other every weekend and this will also encourage players that are based overseas to come back and ply their trade with one of the franchises.
The Fight for the Kings/Spears:
With the new stadium in PE and the Eastern Cape Province being as big as it is, financial viability is guaranteed. EC boast a good crop of top class schools, Grey PE, Framesby, Dan Pienaar, Brandwag, Graeme College, St Andrews, Kingswood, Dale , Selborne, Queens even the lesser known schools like Adelaide Gym ( Os Du Randt), Grens, Cambridge, Hudson Park and Union in Cradock and likes of Thubalethu and Ndzondelelo.
EC is also blessed with great farming communities, Cradock, Graff Reinett, Elliotdale, Maclean, Humansdorp , Barkly East etc etc, these farming communities which are mainly Afrikaans and more importantly, they are proud rugby people, who wont mind taking the bakkie for a spin in the city once a week to watch top class rugby. This situation (existence of franchise in the EC) will now stop these farming parents from sending their boys across the Orange River; Deon Stegmann would have stayed at his farm and attended Union or St Andrews instead of going to Bloem. Whilst this ensures sustainability, one need to take cognizance that we are now in a professional era, players will come from everywhere seeking better fortunes, hence the Kings/Spears will not be restricted or limited to players in the region, some will be poached by the Bulls(Robin Peterson, Monde Zondeki, Ashwell Prince, Boucher all at some stage or the other left for greener pastures) and others from outside the province will come in ( Jacques Kallis, Arno Jacobs).
Top class players who are currently based overseas like Joe Van Niekerk, Wickus Van Heerden, BJ Botha, Butch James and many others may help to form the core of the team in early stages of development and players who find themselves on the fringes in other provinces might consider a move to PE, after all it’s called “The Friendly City”.
What is important to take into account is that, without a guaranteed franchise in the region, it is folly to expect that EP and Border will amount to anything, just like in cricket; these unions will never amount to much alone. It’s a simple fact of economic migration, for an example or as a hypothesis, as of this year the Kings/Spears would have the following home grown boys in their team.
1. Pat Barnard
2. Bandise Maku
3. ??
4. Steven Sykes
5. Rory Duncan
6. Luke Watson/Keegan Daniels/Mpho Mbiyozo
7. Dewaldt Potgieter
8. Ryan Kankowski
9. Rory Kockott
10. Lionel Cronje
11. Jongi Nokwe/ Lwazi Mvovo
12. Gcobani Bobo, Tim Whitehead
13. Riaan Swanepoel
14. Fabian Juries, Bjorn Basson
15. Tiger Bax
Head Coach Alan Solomons, Rassie Erasmus, Allastair Coetzee
Forwards Coach: Rob Kempson, Mark Andrews
Backline Coach: Hennie Le Roux
This team is a hypothetical team as some of these players could be drafted by other franchises, just like the Kings/Spears would have also drafted other players but one thing is certain, the region has enough schools and players to sustain its future.
It’s simply SARU must embrace professionalism and return the CC to strength versus strength, cricket has proved that it’s possible, the only team that would feel hard done by this arrangement is the Griquas.
It’s a win win situation, well, unless you are a Griquas fan, The question what is stopping SARU from going this route?……
4 Aug 2010, 11:05 am
@WP Till I Die(WP-Forever)-99:
And how about this?
4 Aug 2010, 11:06 am
@David(David)-64: My inbox was full, will clean it up again..
4 Aug 2010, 11:06 am
@Transformation(Transformation)-101:
You need to use either “strong” or “b” it seems. “bold” no longer works.
4 Aug 2010, 11:08 am
@Transformation(Transformation)-98: Thank you Transformation. Money man is obviously dence if he missed that from the beginning.
It’s like seeing a naked guy at a board meeting and everyone must pretend that he is clothed. And if you don’t you are critisized and told that you are spoiling the site.
Emperor’s new clothing all over again.
4 Aug 2010, 11:08 am
Wait, let’s see if I can be really cool:
This text is bold.
This text is big.
This text is emphasized.
This text is italic.
This text is small.
This text is strong.
And does it work if I try to subscript and if I try to superscript ?
4 Aug 2010, 11:09 am
@Transformation(Transformation)-98: is he not allowed to ask??
i mean its always asked of the other unions
why so defensive???
4 Aug 2010, 11:09 am
@WP Till I Die(WP-Forever)-108:
OK, subscript and superscript does not work.
4 Aug 2010, 11:10 am
@sharks_lover(sharks_lover)-100: quite correct sharkie. In comparison though, if you had to quantify it – put a percentage, how many players born and bred in the KZN are ever bought/contracted by other provinces at craven week and again the percentage of those who leave after they’ve made their professional debuts?
4 Aug 2010, 11:10 am
@rossoneri(rossoneri)-92: Class is in session….
4 Aug 2010, 11:11 am
also xhosa kid dont name the sharks players in you little histeria
i mean we read day in and day out they are show ponies
actually does it mean show ponies come from the eastern cape??
4 Aug 2010, 11:13 am
@Transformation(Transformation)-111: there are plenty of natal players bought transie
but if they can not manage ec rugby properly maybe they can be a force again
4 Aug 2010, 11:14 am
fact is most natal players stay home as they have a strong union to stay with
4 Aug 2010, 11:15 am
and yes EC do breed some wonderful players , will never argue with that
4 Aug 2010, 11:16 am
@sharks_lover(sharks_lover)-113: I know it hurts that your schools cant produce players, if the cricket franchizing system were to be adopted for rugby, the Sharks would be reduced to what Dolphins are, a facken rubble!!, without a single springbok!!!
4 Aug 2010, 11:17 am
@Transformation(Transformation)-98:
With that in mind Trans-entitlement-aramis you should read the mindless babbling from your Rossen-rag-athos objectively… impossible.
Fortunately you rebels without a cause are confined to this site.
Bonjour Les Trois (Paume’) Mousquetaires!
4 Aug 2010, 11:20 am
haven’t read all posts… really busy…
but saw the header… and have to say…
i can’t understand the constant negativity by so many people towards the Kings and constant criticism and apparent wish not to see it ever get off the ground…
just how will the Kings getting going and succeeding hurt any rugby supporters or rugby unions…?? to me it appears that the criticism is churlish and uncalled for… and, sadly, a lot of it seems to be based in racism… (even though this assertion will be denied and derided…)
FFS… even if people don’t support it… do they have to so actively act and speak against it…? again… how can the Kings be a bad thing for SA rugby and SA…?
well done Alan Solomons… go for it bud…
also good to see Rory Duncan in the mix there… one of the classiest gentlemen in sa rugby and a good leader
4 Aug 2010, 11:26 am
@money_man(money_man)-118: Have you bothered to read my posts objectively and Trans does not speak for me. I do.
What’s the matter. Too woman for you to handle.
If you wanna run, do it. I know your type.
4 Aug 2010, 11:31 am
@ufo(ufo)-119: Thank you UFO.
I am starting to wonder why all the other unions sports press even Saru so scared about.
The region loves the game and would like to participate, grow and play it. Is that so wrong!
Everyone is acting like spoilt kids that won’t allow one boy to play with them.
I would have thought that the whole country would have stood beind the Kings to lend them support. But Nooooo. It’s too much to ask apparently.
4 Aug 2010, 11:31 am
@rossoneri(rossoneri)-120: Too woman to handle? By that, do you mean overweight?
4 Aug 2010, 11:33 am
@UnbeataBULL(UnbeataBULL)-122: “Character”, but you are a bull supporter so I did not anticipate that your comprehension levels would even be adequate never mind accurate.
4 Aug 2010, 11:34 am
@XhosaKid(XhosaKid)-103:
What are the chances of that happening, because the same people that run rugby, are the ones that ousted Brian van Rooyen to delay the Spears/Kings’ entry into superrugby.
FYI- Johan Botha is from PE, he was captain of the Grey PE side in standard nine and ten.
4 Aug 2010, 11:36 am
@rossoneri(rossoneri)-121: In other words, do the work FOR them…. no skattebol, that NOT how it works. Its enough that PDivvy’s work is done FOR him. The rest of the country will not make the Kings successful. They will have to do it for themselves.
What a nice change that’d be….
4 Aug 2010, 11:36 am
@mxhosa(mxhosa)-124: I agree. The structures at SARU and President’s counsel level are very sinister and negative. They are the Kings biggest obstacle, because they simply do not want it to work.
4 Aug 2010, 11:37 am
@rossoneri(rossoneri)-123: So its overweight, isn’t it? C’mon…. be honest!
4 Aug 2010, 11:38 am
@rossoneri(rossoneri)-121:
you’re welcome rosso… yeah, just calling it as i see it…
but you are absolutely on the button with “Everyone is acting like spoilt kids that won’t allow one boy to play with them.”
people are displaying a distinct lack of emotional intelligence and emotional maturity…
4 Aug 2010, 11:39 am
@XhosaKid(XhosaKid)-103:
Good post. In fact PA and myself have bounced this around for a couple of years, now. In fact, this is rapidly becoming a reality as the S15 and later S16 in 2013 become the norm. Instead of the CC, the 6 Franchises can run a competition within the S15/16 on an extra home/away basis.
We also envisage the franchises running the existing minor unions as a group for the CC and ensuring that players are equally distributed to ensure strength.
4 Aug 2010, 11:44 am
@XhosaKid(XhosaKid)-117: please dude go wash ur mouth , the **** you spew is kinda silly
4 Aug 2010, 11:44 am
@rossoneri(rossoneri)-121: easy, just look at what the Chevrolet Warriors have done to cricket compared to when Border and EP cricket was like when they operated individually.
4 Aug 2010, 11:44 am
@ufo(ufo)-128: What exactly should people then do to be-as you put it- emotionally intellegent and mature…
No snotty comeback please….just you honest opinion as to what you would like to see from ppl towards the Kings. Be specific.
4 Aug 2010, 11:49 am
@mxhosa(mxhosa)-124: and @rossoneri(rossoneri)-126: ZERO, ZILTCH!!!!, thats why Gerald Majola didnt put it to a vote, otherwise non of the union Presidents would have voted themselves out of a livelyhood.
4 Aug 2010, 11:49 am
@XhosaKid(XhosaKid)-103:
just read your post… perhaps the most lucid, forward-looking post on the subject… really well done bud…
just one small criticism… if i may…??
keep Solly as head coach and leave Rassie, Alister ALONE…!! heck… they’re just getting WP/Stormers right… we can’t lose ‘em now…
4 Aug 2010, 11:51 am
@David(David)-129: Ditchley? Did you get an answer…..
I am about but multi tasking on skype!!
(It’s a hard life) !!
4 Aug 2010, 11:52 am
@ufo(ufo)-134: IF I MAY????? Good god, are you guys MARRIED to on-another?
4 Aug 2010, 11:53 am
@sharks_lover(sharks_lover)-130: Very mature….
4 Aug 2010, 11:57 am
@XhosaKid(XhosaKid)-137: just as your response was
take the chip off that shoulder mate, must ne getting kinda heavy
4 Aug 2010, 12:00 pm
some in here seriously still stuck in the dark ages
cry all you want its a professional era
most of those mentioned in here dont give a rats *** about EP or where ever and are happy where they are
do some really think rassie cares to go back to EP?? or alistair coetzee?? i think not
4 Aug 2010, 12:04 pm
@sharks_lover(sharks_lover)-139: did you read my post on 103, if so, do you care to engage maturely, without any insults or am I asking a lot.
Just for the record, I no longer have a “chip on my shoulder”, these days, I’m walking around with a “Sapele Mahogany” log on my shoulders
4 Aug 2010, 12:10 pm
@XhosaKid(XhosaKid)-117: here is you own immature **** dude
dont act innocent when you start something , not good for the image you know??
as for cricket , you want me to to give the answer you would like to hear or the truth full answer??
4 Aug 2010, 12:10 pm
IRB: Wessels made grave error
Johannesburg – International Rugby Board referees boss Paddy O’Brien has revealed that South African assistant referee Cobus Wessels made a “grave mistake” that led to him being removed as touch judge for this weekend’s Tri-Nations Test between Australia and New Zealand.
Wessels was further removed from the referees panel for the Tri-Nations by the IRB boss in a decision which was accepted by SANZAR.
In a rare break of protocol, O’Brien explained to NZPA that Wessels had made a massive mistake in recommending a yellow card for Australian winger Drew Mitchell in last weekend’s Test match between the Wallabies and All Blacks in Melbourne.
Wessels flagged an off the ball incident where he said Mitchell had not used arms to tackle All Black captain Richie McCaw and later received a second yellow for unsportsmanlike behaviour, reducing the Wallabies to 14 men for the last 38 minutes of the game.
Scrutiny of match footage not shown on the night revealed that ruling to be well wide of the mark, according to IRB referees boss Paddy O’Brien.
New Zealander O’Brien told NZPA the alleged tackle by Mitchell on All Blacks captain Richie McCaw was at the minor end of the scale and Wessels had paid the price for his over-reaction.
“If anything, it’s lucky to be a penalty,” O’Brien said.”McCaw offloads as he’s about to collide with Drew Mitchell, who puts his hands out and pushes him away. So there’s no way it’s a yellow card offence.
“As a result of that, with the second yellow, Australia went without a player for almost 40 minutes and that just shouldn’t have happened.”
O’Brien said Wessels also called an All Blacks lineout throw not straight late in the Test when it was clearly down the middle.
“Assistant referees, we encourage them to intervene in the game but they’ve got to get it right. There were two decisions made which we felt weren’t up to the standard required.
“Cobus has been very understanding, he admits that he got it wrong and we’re not going to hang him out to dry. He’s got to go away and think about that, referee the Currie Cup and hopefully learn a lesson from it.”
Wessels, who will be the television match official on Saturday, will be replaced on the touch line by New Zealander Keith Brown.
However South African fans will continue to question why O’Brien was not more harsh on the Irish refereeing trio of Alain Rolland, George Clancy and Allan Lewis for their mistakes in the Tri-Nations Tests involving the Springboks but so vociferous to censure Wessels. Rolland and Lewis were sternly defended by O’Brien when the Springboks complained and Rolland was even awarded the Tri-Nations Test in Pretoria between the Springboks and Wallabies.
Meanwhile, O’Brien also defended the refereeing trend this season that has seen a proliferation of yellow and red cards, causing consternation from some teams and supporters.
O’Brien said attention should fall on the actions of the players, not the officials.
“We make no apologies for it. We’re very tough on dangerous tackles, especially tip tackles,” he said.
“This is the shop window of rugby so we can’t have third grade players running around in club rugby tipping someone in the air and putting them down with legs above the horizontal.
“And there’s no excuses for the headbutting and the other things that have happened.”
However, O’Brien may have conceded that lock Danie Rossouw was unlucky in his yellow card and suggested officials overstepped on occasion.
“There are concerns that there have been a couple of yellows where the referees have been over-zealous. The game is still a contact sport so we just want the referees to be accurate when it comes to what is foul play and what is hard rugby.”
4 Aug 2010, 12:12 pm
Mpho Mbiyozo now this dude is merit! Great fetching and great link play
We should be rewarding merit! The top 5 teams from the top competition in SA should play Super rugby and rotate!
The pressure should be on all players and coaches to perform at all levels and all teams!
Complacency breeds medioricty
4 Aug 2010, 12:13 pm
O’brien is a low life piece of ****
he is not consistent in judging his panel of referries
4 Aug 2010, 12:13 pm
@UnbeataBULL(UnbeataBULL)-132:
“No snotty comeback please…” not even to a snotty question…?
simple bud…
let the Kings get on with it and encourage and support the process as part of the larger picture…
look how Australia facilitated and ameliorated the process of establishing the Force and the Rebels… why can’t we have a similar professional and mature process here…? why the constant back-stabbing and broken promises and constant criticism…?
and before anyone says why should the Kings be handed a franchise… well… why not…? every other franchise was ‘handed’ a Super rugby franchise… to begin with…
not quite true… WP were relegated and had to win back their place in the CC the next year… truth be told… WP/Stormers are the only franchise that ‘earned’ their spot…
4 Aug 2010, 12:16 pm
@KevinRack(KevinRack)-143: Kings should be allowed into the super 15 and thus all of south africa will be represented there.
super 16 it will be
4 Aug 2010, 12:16 pm
@UnbeataBULL(UnbeataBULL)-136:
that surely moves the debate foreward nicely…
you see, still no snotty response… even though that cries out for one…
4 Aug 2010, 12:17 pm
@Transformation(Transformation)-95: WHAT?
4 Aug 2010, 12:18 pm
the kings are a long way off to even beat the lions , so a play off religation match wont work
it will only cause for more negativity in the EC
yes they will be battering rams to start off with , but as they grow and gain expeirience they will slowly catch up
4 Aug 2010, 12:21 pm
146
sharks_lover(sharks_lover) representation is the wrong mindset, the best teams must play !
If Griquas for example come in the top 5 we should reward well run and well managed what do say
4 Aug 2010, 12:21 pm
@sharks_lover(sharks_lover)-144: he really is
i remember on Boots and all a few weeks back they asked, which referee has given the most yellow cards to the boks
answer any1?
4 Aug 2010, 12:22 pm
@Papoose(papaown)-151: 1 TOOL named Paddy O’Brian
4 Aug 2010, 12:23 pm
Teams missed the word
4 Aug 2010, 12:24 pm
@carol(carol)-135:
Not yet, probably later today.
4 Aug 2010, 12:25 pm
**** paddystuwalsh
4 Aug 2010, 12:28 pm
@KevinRack(KevinRack)-150: unfortunately south africans for the most have the wrong mind set
the top 5 are already playing
the kwas are represented in their region though , and to be fair this is not the case with the eastern cape
so to me the only way to solve this is bring them in and grow them as a region
i for one would have hoped for them to play in the currie cup as a region to build them , but cleary that wont happen
4 Aug 2010, 12:28 pm
@ufo(ufo)-147: I’m just pullin you chain, mate!
You make some good points. I would’ve loved to see a relagation system in the CC whereby the the top 5 franchises in SA compete in the S15.
4 Aug 2010, 12:28 pm
@KevinRack(KevinRack)-150:
I pointed this out the other day. The Griquas are already part of the Cheetahs franchis.
4 Aug 2010, 12:28 pm
Interesting …..
Cheetahs secure star trio
2010-08-04 11:55Email | Print
Robert Ebersohn (Gallo)
Johannesburg – The Free State Cheetahs have managed a small coup in retaining the services of three of their brightest young talents for another year.
Cheetahs coach Naka Drotske confirmed to SuperSport.com that he had secured the services of the star siblings Robert and Sias Ebersohn as well as try-scoring front ranker Coenie Oosthuizen for another year.
Former SA Sevens star Robert Ebersohn had a massive offer with the Sharks, but chose rather to stay in Bloemfontein for another year before deciding on his future.
However, the Cheetahs will lose another player in Meyer Bosman, who will be moving to the Sharks to link up with his former flyhalf Jacques-Louis Potgieter, who recently signed from the Blue Bulls.
Bosman’s agent Stephan Weyers confirmed that he has signed for the coastal union and would be moving there from the end of the season.
Drotske was happy to have secured the services of the young trio, who have all performed well in the Currie Cup this year.
“We’re very glad that they have signed and made the decision to stay at the Cheetahs,” Drotske told SuperSport.com.
However he was not perturbed with the fact that they couldn’t get the trio to commit for more than one year.
“That is the way things go at the moment, young players don’t want to commit for too long with their futures. We are targeted a lot by other unions and it is nice that they will stay. That is the law of the market at the moment.”
Drotske admitted that Bosman’s move was a loss for the Cheetahs, but that he wished him well.
“Meyer has been open with us all through the negotiations and we wish him well. We will now start to look for a replacement as we have been concentrating to try and keep him in the province.”
4 Aug 2010, 12:30 pm
Who was the official that got is so wrong with Danies yellow as admitted by Paddy that managed to escape punishment unlike another official a bit Reitz
4 Aug 2010, 12:33 pm
And so the cra p continues !!
IRB: Wessels made grave error
2010-08-04 10:31Email | Print
Paddy O’Brien (File)
Brenden Nel
Johannesburg – International Rugby Board referees boss Paddy O’Brien has revealed that South African assistant referee Cobus Wessels made a “grave mistake” that led to him being removed as touch judge for this weekend’s Tri-Nations Test between Australia and New Zealand.
Wessels was further removed from the referees panel for the Tri-Nations by the IRB boss in a decision which was accepted by SANZAR.
In a rare break of protocol, O’Brien explained to NZPA that Wessels had made a massive mistake in recommending a yellow card for Australian winger Drew Mitchell in last weekend’s Test match between the Wallabies and All Blacks in Melbourne.
Wessels flagged an off the ball incident where he said Mitchell had not used arms to tackle All Black captain Richie McCaw and later received a second yellow for unsportsmanlike behaviour, reducing the Wallabies to 14 men for the last 38 minutes of the game.
Scrutiny of match footage not shown on the night revealed that ruling to be well wide of the mark, according to IRB referees boss Paddy O’Brien.
New Zealander O’Brien told NZPA the alleged tackle by Mitchell on All Blacks captain Richie McCaw was at the minor end of the scale and Wessels had paid the price for his over-reaction.
“If anything, it’s lucky to be a penalty,” O’Brien said.”McCaw offloads as he’s about to collide with Drew Mitchell, who puts his hands out and pushes him away. So there’s no way it’s a yellow card offence.
“As a result of that, with the second yellow, Australia went without a player for almost 40 minutes and that just shouldn’t have happened.”
O’Brien said Wessels also called an All Blacks lineout throw not straight late in the Test when it was clearly down the middle.
“Assistant referees, we encourage them to intervene in the game but they’ve got to get it right. There were two decisions made which we felt weren’t up to the standard required.
“Cobus has been very understanding, he admits that he got it wrong and we’re not going to hang him out to dry. He’s got to go away and think about that, referee the Currie Cup and hopefully learn a lesson from it.”
Wessels, who will be the television match official on Saturday, will be replaced on the touch line by New Zealander Keith Brown.
However South African fans will continue to question why O’Brien was not more harsh on the Irish refereeing trio of Alain Rolland, George Clancy and Allan Lewis for their mistakes in the Tri-Nations Tests involving the Springboks but so vociferous to censure Wessels. Rolland and Lewis were sternly defended by O’Brien when the Springboks complained and Rolland was even awarded the Tri-Nations Test in Pretoria between the Springboks and Wallabies.
Meanwhile, O’Brien also defended the refereeing trend this season that has seen a proliferation of yellow and red cards, causing consternation from some teams and supporters.
O’Brien said attention should fall on the actions of the players, not the officials.
“We make no apologies for it. We’re very tough on dangerous tackles, especially tip tackles,” he said.
“This is the shop window of rugby so we can’t have third grade players running around in club rugby tipping someone in the air and putting them down with legs above the horizontal.
“And there’s no excuses for the headbutting and the other things that have happened.”
However, O’Brien may have conceded that lock Danie Rossouw was unlucky in his yellow card and suggested officials overstepped on occasion.
“There are concerns that there have been a couple of yellows where the referees have been over-zealous. The game is still a contact sport so we just want the referees to be accurate when it comes to what is foul play and what is hard rugby.”
4 Aug 2010, 12:33 pm
@KevinRack(KevinRack)-160: its actually very infuriating the whole thing
4 Aug 2010, 12:34 pm
@sharks_lover(sharks_lover)-156:
It’s a bit of a chicken/egg situation, isn’t it. Until there’s an EC/SWD franchise, the region will still continue lose players and not attract quality ones, and to have the Kings in the CC premier division means relegating EP, Border and SWD to the wilderness, unless they agree to merge into a single union and compete as a union/franchise at CC and S15 level, like the Sharks.
4 Aug 2010, 12:35 pm
@justrugby(justrugby)-161: ummm dude
i posted that like 10 minutes ago
4 Aug 2010, 12:37 pm
@TheTackler(TheTackler)-11: you’re wrong about Solomons being a poor coach but I suspect you already know this.
4 Aug 2010, 12:40 pm
@Papoose(papaown)-164:
Sorry boet…..have not read the thread, just thought it would be of interest !!!
4 Aug 2010, 12:41 pm
@David(David)-163: Agreed Dave, been saying it for as few years now.
ut they dont want to, each one wants to be the boss and main cat
play Vodacom cup forever or change i think,
I reckon play Vodacom cup as individuals and Currie cup and Super 15 as a region
In that way they will be stringer and more competitive
They shouting now that they onto of the 1st division , but trust me the lions will give EP a hiding of note
So how can the Lions for dropped for a weaker team??
No i say , amalgamate , and play together in the Currie cup and gain experience
With time they will lift their standard big time i think
4 Aug 2010, 12:41 pm
@UnbeataBULL(UnbeataBULL)-125: Jy is regtig a domkop.
What tournament did the Bulls, or the Stormers, or the Cheetah’s or the Sharks and Lions qualify for to get Super rugby status? It was handed to them on a silver platter. A HAND OUT! If you will.
The Kings are given all sorts of hurdles to climb, and they are taking it one step at a time and earning it. Firsty by giving it’s home players, a home base, and NOT STEALING THEM like the other unions do. ie a Sharks academy that can’t develop S H I T.
Kings are not asking for the equal hand out, that the other unions got, which if I am correct came with cash!
Just a chance to participate.Is it so much to ask.
4 Aug 2010, 12:42 pm
@David(David)-163: also SWD falls under the Stormers as far as i know
unless this all changes
4 Aug 2010, 12:48 pm
rossoneri(rossoneri) you are correct in away all the teams must compete to play S14 equally if you are kak the next well managed team should be rewarded to the next level
4 Aug 2010, 12:51 pm
@KevinRack(KevinRack)-170: The relegation concept Saru is not prepared to consider. I think it’s great, but that would mean the Lions must make room, and that Saru, Lions and all the cash “from the richest union” is not prepared to make way for.
4 Aug 2010, 12:54 pm
@sharks_lover(sharks_lover)-169:
It hasn’t for a while. They pulled, complaining that they were being shafted. They weren’t wrong either.
4 Aug 2010, 12:56 pm
@sharks_lover(sharks_lover)-167: Shark lover, if the Kings got Super franchise status, and the money from promised sponsership started to roll in, together with the funding that comes from being at Super rugby level, it would mean attracking more players? Right.
It would mean the Craven week stars stay, and the one’s that left currently at other unions might be persuaded to come back.
ala Melbourne Rebels and Force. (more money and better players resulted in the Force of 2009 being unbeaten by their fellow Aussie Super rugby counterparts.)
Right now, Lions might still beat this team, but with better resources can you be so convinced. The Lions have all the resources, and yet cannot make it translate on the pitch.
4 Aug 2010, 12:56 pm
@David(David)-158: What is amazing about SArugby, why cant they see that, there is absolutely no need to have 8 teams in the CC Cup, I haven’t looked at the CC log but I can bet my last rand, that the bottom two teams are the same minnows that were promoted last year.
Logic suggest we go the cricket route,
1. WP ( Cobras)
2. Bulls( Titans)
3. Cheetahs ( Eagles)
4. Lions ( Lions)
5. Sharks ( Dolphins)
6. Kings/Spears ( Warriors)
What is interesting though is, the “big” unions would all still keep their franchises, so why cant they vote this format in, what is it that they are scared off?, this format would reduce the CC from 112 games ( 8teams * 14games) to 72 (6teams * 12 games), this will give more time for players to full recover for both EOYT and Superrugby.
Grant, Keo, JC, Ryan, Simon, can you be good journalist and find out why this logical format cant be adopted?
4 Aug 2010, 12:58 pm
@rossoneri(rossoneri)-171:
A relegation system would be a disaster, especially in the proposal drafted by SARU, which they reneged on anyway. The SANZAR agreement stipulates that the top 150 players in the country must be included. With the relegation system, this would mean that the relegated sides top players would be drafted, weakening them further. Then there’s the problem of who do the drafted players represent in a playoff, their original relegated side or their current one?
4 Aug 2010, 12:59 pm
@XhosaKid(XhosaKid)-174: Are you suggesting that the keo journo’s must actually do research and ask questions?
4 Aug 2010, 13:00 pm
@rossoneri(rossoneri)-171:
i’m with you on this… play-off matches would weigh heavily against the top team of the ‘lower league’ thus rendering finishing in last place in the ‘higher league’ pretty meaningless…
if the bottom sa s15 team was simply relegated… there would suddenly be a helluva lot more motivation within the lion’s set-up to put things right and make sound rugby and financial decisions…
it could be great for sa rugby overall because finishing last will have a major impact on the any franchise… so all would have to up their game on and off-field…
“teams you have x-number of games in the season to prove yourselves… after that… it’s into the boardroom… where one of you WILL be fired…!!”
4 Aug 2010, 13:01 pm
@David(David)-175: I hear you. so are you saying the only way is to add another franchise?
4 Aug 2010, 13:01 pm
@sharks_lover(sharks_lover)-167: Without a franchise in the region its pointless to merge them, they will still be piss poor and be cannon fodder.
4 Aug 2010, 13:02 pm
@ufo(ufo)-177: The great thing is players and coaching staff will realize that losing will affect their pay cheques!
4 Aug 2010, 13:06 pm
@XhosaKid(XhosaKid)-179:
Too true.
4 Aug 2010, 13:06 pm
@XhosaKid(XhosaKid)-174:
The problem the Kings have had is not due to racism, but power. As you pointed out with cricket, there’s no way the smaller unions are going to vote to dissolve themselves. Rember there are 16 unions in total, so the chances of getting a majority are pretty remote. For me, the only remedy is to continue with the regional franchises as the defacto major teams and allow the smaller unions to either financially die or merge.
4 Aug 2010, 13:06 pm
@rossoneri(rossoneri)-180:
exactly…
@David(David)-175:
i don’t agree with that… WP did not fall apart when relegated from S10… they pulled their fingers out their backsides and got their act together
4 Aug 2010, 13:07 pm
@rossoneri(rossoneri)-168: Normally, I dont talk to fat chicks, but I will entertain you comment for a while.
The NTvl, Tvl, Natal, Free State and Western Province unions were the 5 unions with the financial backing to compete in the Superrugby tourny to begin with. Which teams, in your expert opinion deserved those spots more? The EP Elephants, that was the whipping boys of old? The Griekwas, that was only competative when they and WP were the only 2 registered franchises?
Nee wat, dikkes! Call me a domkop all you want, but that will not get you a Superrugby franchise. Fortunately SANZAR couldn’t give a fhurk about the political situation in SA. Therefor they wont be Bullied into anything the ANC demaaaand.
Go eat a Big Mac, and leave the boys to play…..
4 Aug 2010, 13:11 pm
@rossoneri(rossoneri)-178:
Either that or rearrange the makeup of the existing franchises. SARU totally screwed up by allowing the unions the right to choose their own franchise partners, and then handed over the responsibility to accountants to select the best bid when the 5th Franchise became available. The S14 is owned by SARU and they have every right to determine what the regions are and which unions form part of them. That’s how NZ handled it.
4 Aug 2010, 13:13 pm
@rossoneri(rossoneri)-173: Lekker gatoorkop!!! So what you’re saying is give us the spot, and then we will become a good franchise, instead of working hard for a spot??
I am all for a relagation concept. This does not automatcally means that the Bottom SA team needs to be replaced. Use the top5 performing teams from the CC in the S14. You’ll probably wont be happy with that either, ‘cos that’ll mean that you will again, have to work for a spot every year, and not automatically qualify every 2nd year, yeah?
4 Aug 2010, 13:20 pm
@ufo(ufo)-183:
@UnbeataBULL(UnbeataBULL)-184:
The current competition is a regional one, not a reward for the top CC unions. The fact that the 5 major unions are part of seperate franchises is due to the fact that, apart from the Lions and Bulls, they are in different geographic areas, plus there’s no way they want to merge with another major union in a franchise. Logically, the Bulls and Lions should play as a single franchise, but politics prevent this.
What has happened is that the major unions have effectively made the regional franchise an extension of the union.
4 Aug 2010, 13:21 pm
@David(David)-182: Exactly, the narrow minded journalist and your average punter think “politics” is/are about race but they actually are about Power and Finance.
If, I as the president of Griffons ( The Purple Cheetahs!!),am asked to vote for my union to merge with Free State and Griffons to therefore become amateur or obsolete, there is no way on earth I would do that.
Note for Simon et al., its Afrikaans against Afrikaans, not a black or white thing, please Simon et al, lets raise the level of our argument, please.
4 Aug 2010, 13:22 pm
@UnbeataBULL(UnbeataBULL)-184:
@UnbeataBULL(UnbeataBULL)-186:
Wow, I agree with a Bulls fan, on all counts (Not with the insults though bullyboy). We so used to changing things that don’t suit us in SA that the goalposts move when we want them to. All in the name of transformation. Nothing wrong with levelling the playing field though, but there has to be a line. You want a top franchise, build it!
4 Aug 2010, 13:23 pm
reward for the top CC unions.
Reward not punish
4 Aug 2010, 13:24 pm
@XhosaKid(XhosaKid)-188:
When are you going to clear your damn mailbox!
4 Aug 2010, 13:27 pm
Xhosa you are preaching to the converted buddy.
Some of us has been on this for a long time so we fully agree with you.
As for the media, race sells buddy, logic does not.
4 Aug 2010, 13:29 pm
@UnbeataBULL(UnbeataBULL)-184:
Clearly I’ve gotten under your skin.
1 Your presume things about my appearance ON A VIRTUAL MEDIUM. (HILARIOUS)
2 You have not disputed that franchise status was handed to your Bulls. Free! Mahala! Gratis, for nothing and they got cash with it in the bargain. When did your Bulls play set matches to earn them a spot and please remind yourself of their appauling history in Super rugby until 2007.
3 Your contention that Kings rugby is all political. Is growing the game of rugby in SA not part of SARU’s brief?
I am not going to convince you, as you have decided in your biased mind that people in this region of the country MUST NEVER get a chance to play the game and gain the benefits of being competitive at a higher level.
Imagine if the rest of the country made that call about the Bulls in the season they lost all their matches in super rugby.
But I get it. You have your prejudices and you are sticking with them.
For the record, the Kings are climbing the mountain one step at a time, they are top of their log at the moment. Watch this space.
4 Aug 2010, 13:29 pm
And as for the unions and power mongers…
It is even more simple, scare the living **** out of supporters on how they will lose their history and identity and any suggestion is shot down before it is even considered or evaluated as to its sustainability.
4 Aug 2010, 13:32 pm
@PissAnt(PissAnt)-194: Thought you and Ranger were running away from the discussion? What changed your mind?
4 Aug 2010, 13:33 pm
@rossoneri(rossoneri)-195:
To my surprise some rugby was actually discussed inbetween too!
4 Aug 2010, 13:34 pm
@JockBok(JockBok)-189: I don’t think anyone is wanting things for free, just an equal opportunaty.
It’s like saying to your two kids, I’ll pay for my son to go to varsity, give him the opportunaty, but my daughter will have to get a job and pay her own way and earn it.
4 Aug 2010, 13:35 pm
@XhosaKid(XhosaKid)-174:
If the Kings are gonna be included in the expended super 16 in 2013 as reports have suggested, then we should have a 6 CC as early as 2012.
with the following franchises:
1. Stormers (WP + Boland)
2. Bulls (Blue Bulls + Valke)
3. Cheetahs (FS, Griquas, Griffons)
4. Sharks
5. Cats (Lions, Leopards, Pumas)
6. Kings (EP, Border, SWD)
The chances of this happening are zilch!
4 Aug 2010, 13:36 pm
@PissAnt(PissAnt)-196: You are too quick to judge sometimes, and don’t read between the lines.
People are entitled to their anger esspecially if it’s bourne out of inaccuracy and misinformation.
4 Aug 2010, 13:36 pm
let the Lions transform ..they have Soweto closeby etc … I just want to see the Kings play winning rugby ..
4 Aug 2010, 13:40 pm
@PissAnt(PissAnt)-196: You should realize too that when I read an article about a so called sports journalist who went to watch a game and all he can report on is that he counted 15 players on the field of the winning side and out of the 15 he did a security police move and counted a further 4 that was black and 11 white. It’s gonna piss me off.
It should have pissed you off too as that, in my view is not an article about rugby at all.
4 Aug 2010, 13:41 pm
Maybe a S14 wooden spoon relegation
4 Aug 2010, 13:41 pm
@David(David)-187:
Here’s Bulls/Lions team for you:
15 Zane Kirchner
14 Gerhard vd Heever
13 Wylon Murray
12 Wynand Olivier
11 Francois Hougaard
10 Morne Steyn
09 Fourie Du Preez
8 Pierre Spies
7 Dewald Potgieter
6 Deon Stegmann
5 Victor Matfield
4 Bakkies Botha
3 Werner Kruger
2 Chilliboy Ralepelle
1 Gurthro Steenkamp
16 Gary Botha
17 Ross Geldenhuys
18 Danie Rossouw
19 Jaundre Kruger
20 Wikus van Heerden
21 Burton Francis
22 Jaco Taute
4 Aug 2010, 13:41 pm
@mxhosa(mxhosa)-198: Thats it,but as you said, there is Zero chances of that happening!!
@David(David)-191: Done!!
4 Aug 2010, 13:43 pm
@mxhosa(mxhosa)-198:
Don’t confuse the CC, which is for the unions, with the regional franchises, that only exist for the S15.
With the new format next year, the logic for the current CC will come under scrutiny, as the SA Franchise games will start to duplicate the CC ones.
4 Aug 2010, 13:44 pm
screw tribes
screw race caregorisation
thats the evil…..we should all resist any attempt to remotely allow ‘racial grouping ‘ to ever be a point of contention.
Its what divides us…..we are all just Saffas…..if someone calle me by a race grouping i get so the moer in!
I have refused ….since i finally ‘got it ‘ in 1988, to ever put a race category on any form, etc….i only put SA….
The evil is the ‘tribes ”
Believe me!
4 Aug 2010, 13:44 pm
chilli wont even get gametime @ the kings
4 Aug 2010, 13:45 pm
@rossoneri(rossoneri)-193: I’m not presuming anything! You admitted to being alot of woman..
Nobody said.. read carefully… NOBODY SAID that the Kings should not be afforded the opportunity. All I’m saying, is you have to wehk for it. Not given on a silver platter.
You’ve not answered my question regading what the Kings did to sezzef the chance to play Superrugby. If they’re in the Top5 at CC Premier division….BY ALL MEANS!!!
You guys dont want that, cos then Supperugby will not be taken to the people…. They will still have to travel to Cape Town, Durbs or Pretoria to watch a decent game of ruggas!
4 Aug 2010, 13:48 pm
i mean….how is this keo poll …..!
Disgrace….absolute shocking that we still dvide ourselves constantly….pathetic.
4 Aug 2010, 13:49 pm
@mxhosa(mxhosa)-203:
4 Aug 2010, 13:52 pm
i agree grant … must be lions supporters getting edgy by a few EP wins … very good win over boland. Boland was tipped to replace the Lions in next years CC (by Keo) – how that is possible i don’t know cause the Pumas & leopards will end in the bottom 2
4 Aug 2010, 13:52 pm
@UnbeataBULL(UnbeataBULL)-208: Are you serious. If the Kings win in the division they are currently in, they get promoted to CC. Last year they were in the final to get promoted, and lost.
That aside. The Kings I am certain realize that they have to be competitive. Hence the huge improvement in their game in the last two years.
But since you say they must “earn it” and not get the silver platter that the other Super team got. What is the SARU requirements?
Top 5 of CC Prem Div? Is that it, or is that your personal yard stick? Where in the constitution of SARU does it say that if the Bulls or Lions or Sharks don’t make top 5 CC Prem Div, they get kicked out? And if this is the requirement, then what happens with Griqwas and Cheetah’s.
Believe me chap, if there is a list of requirements, Kings would be working on the check list. BUT there is none, and NOT even your precious Bulls had to comply with one.
4 Aug 2010, 13:52 pm
@KevinRack(KevinRack)-202: NO WAY!!! That will again mean Automatic qualification every 2nd year for the country’s worst team (WHOEVER THAT MIGHT BE)
Relagation at CC level puts every1 on level playing ground, and ONLY the top5 teams in the country will compete.
4 Aug 2010, 13:54 pm
@XhosaKid(XhosaKid)-204:
Still bouncing. Try mailing me at david at crm2 dot co dot za with your cell number.
4 Aug 2010, 13:56 pm
@grant10(grant10)-209: The poll is an absolute disgrace.
I get that Simon must have been pissed that the Kings beat Boland, but to write rubbish about how he saw 4 black players and not deal with the rugby that was actually played is poor. This is a rugby site for crying out loud! Can we get a report on the rugby.
Which players stood out? Game plan?
4 Aug 2010, 13:56 pm
@UnbeataBULL(UnbeataBULL)-213:
Don’t be an idiot. The Franchises are not the same as the CC teams. What happens if the Cheetahs are relegated from the CC, does that mean the Griquas and Griffons players also lose out?
4 Aug 2010, 13:57 pm
@UnbeataBULL(UnbeataBULL)-213: How do you, with your CC Prem Div relegation plan solve the Griqwas Cheetah’s situation.
4 Aug 2010, 13:58 pm
@David(David)-216: Thanks David.
4 Aug 2010, 13:59 pm
@rossoneri(rossoneri)-215:
That would mean that Simon would have to have some actual rugby knowledge, if he’s to report on it. Besides, he’d have a problem identifying the 4 players as you guys all look alike.
4 Aug 2010, 14:00 pm
@David(David)-219:
Very true. My Goodness it’s so tragic though.
4 Aug 2010, 14:02 pm
@rossoneri(rossoneri)-215: the mere fact that these wallys talk in terms of race categories speaks volumes for there lack of evolvement…..some okes will just never ‘get it’…..
Anyway….i trust you are well….come visit again soon….
Have to run
outta here
4 Aug 2010, 14:02 pm
@rossoneri(rossoneri)-199:
Now what ever gave you the idea my post was in reference to you?
Secondly, I always try my best not to judge people.
Lastly, I have debated and supported the issues wrt to this region for years, in just about every single article ever posted on this issue it turns into a shouting match, I simply did not feel like following another one, thats all.
4 Aug 2010, 14:03 pm
@David(David)-214: crm2 @??, will also mail you my cell
4 Aug 2010, 14:03 pm
@grant10(grant10)-221: I am. I must visit again and this time meet everyone.
4 Aug 2010, 14:03 pm
@David(David)-205:
I’m not confused, am just saying that the franchise system would be ideal… however, the self serving union presidents would be reluctant to agree to that.
4 Aug 2010, 14:04 pm
@rossoneri(rossoneri)-224: ja
we will do the firemans Arms special…..
cheers now
4 Aug 2010, 14:04 pm
@rossoneri(rossoneri)-220:
At times I don’t know whether to laugh or cry.
4 Aug 2010, 14:04 pm
@PissAnt(PissAnt)-222: Fair enough.
I gotta run too.
4 Aug 2010, 14:05 pm
@David(David)-219: LOL!!!!
4 Aug 2010, 14:05 pm
@David(David)-227:
4 Aug 2010, 14:09 pm
How does relegation work in England football
4 Aug 2010, 14:11 pm
@David(David)-216: Yes
4 Aug 2010, 14:11 pm
@PissAnt(PissAnt)-222: What should happen is simply, it encumbered upon the “reasonable” blogger to steer the ship away from gutter posters, what then happens, the gutter boys simply cant keep up without insults, its a handicap they have,you see?,then they simply stop posting and the thread stays on point.
The majority of us are here to talk rugby with fellow rugby supporters, Keo and Co are just providing us the platform.We general have kak regard for their “journalistic” work
4 Aug 2010, 14:11 pm
@mxhosa(mxhosa)-225:
As I said, I think it will happen by default. If you look at next years S15 format, every home franchise plays home and away games against each other first, which will be a virtual duplication of the CC matches between the unions. When you consider that the Cheetahs is the only franchise that regularly include players from another premier CC Union (Griquas), the CC itself becomes a bit illogical in it’s present form. I would make the S15 rounds a seperate local competition and exclude their players from the normal CC, which would also level the playing fields to an extent.
4 Aug 2010, 14:15 pm
@rossoneri(rossoneri)-228: It will help you shed some kilo’s…
Ok, ok…. I’ll stop now….
N’joy
4 Aug 2010, 14:15 pm
@XhosaKid(XhosaKid)-223:
No,
david@crm2 dot co dot za
4 Aug 2010, 14:17 pm
@grant10(grant10)-206:
never a truer word spoken… every war ever fought it because one tribe wanted what another tribe has…
4 Aug 2010, 14:20 pm
@XhosaKid(XhosaKid)-233:
This is true, was seriously not in the mood today for another race tyrade though.
4 Aug 2010, 14:22 pm
@ufo(ufo)-237: Remember one thing:
War is not about who’s righ….its about who’s left….
4 Aug 2010, 14:23 pm
@PissAnt(PissAnt)-222:
Rosso…
PA certainly has been a consistent voice of reason wrt the ECape rugby issue…
4 Aug 2010, 14:26 pm
@ufo(ufo)-240: I know and he explained why he left.
4 Aug 2010, 14:34 pm
hey rosso are you worried with the lack of white players in the bafana bafana? why no cuotas for them?. you know, representative teams and all this things.
4 Aug 2010, 14:39 pm
@go bokke from spain(go bokke from spain)-242:
And only one Basque in the Spanish team, so you don’t support them you said.
4 Aug 2010, 14:46 pm
hey hey david one moment. i alwais supported germany IN FOOTBALL.since child, since wc 82 in spain, rossi pertini remember? nothing to do with the presence of basque players
4 Aug 2010, 14:48 pm
@PissAnt(PissAnt)-222: i concur with this post, you’ve been the most consistent and most lucid blogger on this topic for years now. But as a lot of people and myslef have said before, the mere mention of EP rugby solicits insults and vitriol. I used to engage it before but i stopped.
Even when Simon posted the article on monday i replied once and left it there, cos for a person in his position to go to a Kings vs Boland match and only come back to pen an article about how many blacks played for the Kings clearly indicated what kind of person we’re dealing with.
He never bothered to look into the structure of EPRFU/Kings ie who the coaches are, the squad, injuries etc. When Boland were moered he got on his laptop and just vented his spleen! That irks me to no end!
It’s people like him that reinforce my stance that i will never support any of the current saffa s14 franchises!
4 Aug 2010, 14:48 pm
Solly, you’ll always have some twat scratching where it doesn’t itch. Unfortunately this particular twat has a forum from which he can spout his nonsensical dribble.
Either way, ignore the idiot.
4 Aug 2010, 14:51 pm
in the 1982 football wc we had basque players in spanish team like arconada, lopez ufarte, zamora, satrustegui, alexanco, perico alonso(xabi alonsos father) and i didnt mind. i was fan of rumennigge, hrubesch, kaltz, schumacher ok?
4 Aug 2010, 14:58 pm
@grant10(grant10)-209: I agree with you Grant. This is utter bullshit. The worst part of it is that racial divide is now preached by rugby journo’s and not politicians. Rubbish.
People should come to the Eastern Cape and come and see the immense talent we have at junior level and you will realize the vision behind the Kings’ promotion to the top level.
Oh, Unbeatabull, you guys have benefited greatly from players born and bred in the Eastern Cape. The latest one being Dewald Potgieter.
The Kings will be the saviour of SA Rugby, you just watch because the Eastern Cape play an exciting brand of rugby
4 Aug 2010, 14:59 pm
@Transformation(Transformation)-245: And those franchises thank you wholeheartedly!
4 Aug 2010, 15:02 pm
@Transformation(Transformation)-245:
As I said before Trans, race sells.
4 Aug 2010, 15:06 pm
@GI POT(GI POT)-248: You’re missing the GI POT completely!
Nobody is disputing that. What I am saying is that mismanagement of funds sunk the Eastern Cape franchise. That, and the fact that its a ****** place to stay in. NOW, all of a sudden, the franchise should just be promoted to the best provincial tournament in the world? What did the Kings do to deserve that spot?
If they can get their act together, perform well in the CC PREMIER division, then only can one justify another Superrugby spot. The fact that this is historically a disadvantaged area sits well with government, my friend…NOT SANZAR. Thank God South African politicians are not in charge of Southern Hemisphere rugby!
4 Aug 2010, 15:07 pm
@grant10(grant10)-206:
before you get your speedo in a knot, who does your company admin?
ever looked at dept of labour, dept of trade documents?
unfortunately one cannot avoid race classification in good old sa.
in fact, it seems more important to the anc than it did to the nats
4 Aug 2010, 15:09 pm
@go bokke from spain(go bokke from spain)-242: I’m not worried about the numbers in the Kings team, but Simon was and felt the need to count them and write an article about it.
@David(David)-243: The Basque is Andres Ienesta I think, and he is one of the many reason’s why I love the Spanish team so much. Tendulkar step aside. The real little genius is Andres!
4 Aug 2010, 15:14 pm
@UnbeataBULL(UnbeataBULL)-251: you do a disservice to all bulls fans like Blouste, Gunther etc who are decent individuals, wind your neck in, you’re neither funny or informed…
4 Aug 2010, 15:15 pm
nor..
4 Aug 2010, 15:18 pm
@UnbeataBULL(UnbeataBULL)-251: You just keep on harping ne.
How about answering the question around you sollution.
You say CC prem div 5th place ought to settle the issue on super rugby status.
1 Where does Saru’s constitution say this, (you made it up obviously)
2 What about the Cheetah’s and the Griqwas? – ( you never bothered to answer)
3 What about the Bulls and other current SA super teams who got super status HANDED TO THEM ON A PLATTER?
If you decide to answer, ( and I’m not holding my breath as this is my 3rd request for a lucid answer), I’m curious as to your response.
4 Aug 2010, 15:19 pm
@rossoneri(rossoneri)-253: @go bokke from spain(go bokke from spain)-242: I’m not worried about the numbers in the Kings team, but Simon was and felt the need to count them and write an article about it.
So instead of ignoring the article and munch down a Big Mac, she thought that Simon actually gave a fhurk about her opinion, and verbally abused the guy. Somehow, I dont think that you’ve succeeded. What you DID succeed in, was showing us that you’re a spoilt little brat, that gets her way everytime she throws a tantrum.
Maybe I’m wrong… If so, please provide me with some insight as to your reasoning behind that outburst….
4 Aug 2010, 15:22 pm
@UnbeataBULL(UnbeataBULL)-257: Loss maar. Do yourself a favour and read post 254. Take the advice. It was freely given and you really ought to heed it.
I’m done. One cannot have a conversation with someone of your ilk.
4 Aug 2010, 15:24 pm
@rossoneri(rossoneri)-256:
1: I gave my opinion as to what is fair. SARU is run by politicians. Thus, fairness is irrelevant.
2: Their problem, not everybody will be satisfied.
3: They were the strongest teams in SA. Do a little research.
Bottom line is…. Southern Hemisphere rugby is not run by the ANC, and the Kings will not be handed a spot on a silver platter. Get used to it!
4 Aug 2010, 15:27 pm
rosso, andres is from albacete in the south of spain. but let me tell you that i cant understand your opinion. why so worried about peoples colour?. if the 15 springboks are white, who cares? they are southafricans so, ¿whats the problem?. the 11 players of bafana bafana are black, any problem? are they the best players of the country? yes, so VAMOOOOOOS
in the spanish team you love theres no cuotas about race, origin, sexual tendency or religion
4 Aug 2010, 15:30 pm
@rossoneri(rossoneri)-258: You’re hungry, aren’t you?
4 Aug 2010, 15:34 pm
@go bokke from spain(go bokke from spain)-260: Are you drunk?
The issue I had was that the Kings played a game where they beat Bolland. The journalist Simon then writes an article, NOT about the victory, or the game, or the outstanding players, BUT tells us that on match day he sat there and counted out of 15 players there was 4 black ones.
My issue is who the hell cares! What about the rugby! This “rugby” journalist couldn’t come up with anythinng other than “there was 4 black players.” ?
You vamoooooos.
The soccer in this country has never prejudiced a player based on race. Never! Rugby did. Check out who are the coaches of the PSL TEAMS.
Europeans mostly, and the others mainly white! They are sellecting the players and they seem to think the soccer team out there is the best team avaiable on merit.
So address colour questions to Neil Tovey at Amazulu, or Ruud Kroll, or Gavin Hunt to name a few, as you appear colour and race obsessed not me!
4 Aug 2010, 15:48 pm
@rossoneri(rossoneri)-262: Spanish are the most racist maggots there is!
4 Aug 2010, 15:49 pm
honestly what is the arseing point of this article.
I think all genuine rugby fans in this country want to see the kings play.
Unless of course…
Well exactly…
4 Aug 2010, 15:50 pm
@rossoneri(rossoneri)-262: I counted the number of black players in the team because the Kings are telling everyone that their inclusion in Super Rugby will be a boost for transformation. If it’s not going to be a boost for transformation, then Saru may want to reconsider fighting so hard for them.
4 Aug 2010, 15:50 pm
@Mighty Horua(Mighty Horua)-263: I’m not one to generalize, but we might be dealing with one of those here by the name of @go bokke from spain(go bokke from spain).
4 Aug 2010, 15:52 pm
im not drunk but you are UN CAPULLO DE LA OSTIA
and a sissyboy. alwais crying “no black enough” buaaa “why no black president?” buaaa “why no black coach?” buaaaa.like your friends transformer and mishani. you talk **** about hondo or kobus kitty but you are here the firt racist. we are in 21 century and CUOTAS ARE RACISM. the last year played in the french top14 about 50 southafrican players. all whites, you boludo. are the french teams racist or their dirigents? the best players of south african rugby ARE WHITE
deal with it
4 Aug 2010, 15:56 pm
@rossoneri(rossoneri)-262: Thats because a rugby game between the Kings and Boland is not newsworthy…..
4 Aug 2010, 15:57 pm
@UnbeataBULL(UnbeataBULL)-251: Wake up and smell the burning toast, buddy. Very little of what happens in our rugby has to do with merit. Yes, in a “perfect” world, the Kings would not “deserve” a place in the S15 competition if your idea of “perfection” is based on performance.
We do not live in a perfect country because we have an imperfect history. People like you want to brush the past under the rug and forget about it and say, “Let us start afresh.” That is a cop out of note. Certain things will have to be redressed – whether you like it or not. It is a fact of nature that things, when they change, tend to go to the other extreme of the scale before a balance is reached, and, it is also true that the correction of the imbalance is often more severe than the initial imbalance. Be that as it may, we will see a balance achieved in this country.
I agree with you that the problems of Eastern Cape rugby are their own doing and they cannot blame Apartheid for it. However, the powers that be are putting the right structures in place and the management of the union’s affairs are far more transparent. Therefore, give them a go because the issue of the area being the cradle of racially integrated rugby is not going to disappear. This makes the article above even more ludicrous because it is not about black rugby, but integrated rugby
4 Aug 2010, 15:59 pm
racist? because i hate cuotas? ahh, i understand mightyhorua is a kiwi very happy with them. what a pity south africa
4 Aug 2010, 15:59 pm
@Simon(Simon)-265: You cannot be that dence.
Transformation is an aspect Simon an aspect that should be considered for all franchises, and since when has Saru fought for them?
The fact remains is that the Eastern Cape region is not represented at all at higher level rugby and Saru has not helped. That means a boost to all rugby players from the EC, black white pink orange whatever!
Did you actually bother to watch the match at all with some form of insight, or where you just there to nit pick issues to tarnish the Kings. It must have pissed you off greatly when they won. You couldn’t harp on their game, so you went into your racist comfort zone and counted the black boys and counted the white ones.
Boy would we have appreciated a lucid account of the game, the better players, the tactics etc. the stuff real sports writers give you.
No! We got back biting gutter trash designed to crush the efforts of a team and an area trying to improve their game.
4 Aug 2010, 16:01 pm
@go bokke from spain(go bokke from spain)-270: Stay in Spain. In this country we have white coaches that sellect black players and black coaches who sellect white players. Obviously this is upsetting you. Stay where you are. Our country is better off without you.
4 Aug 2010, 16:05 pm
i love Bryan Gary Habana (what a player) Bryan in the all blacks would have 60 tries. JPP Petersen one of my fovorites. The Beast . I loved Breyton i remember Eddy Andrews, Bolla all good players picked on merit. ¿But chiliboy? january of 2010? no way
4 Aug 2010, 16:06 pm
@go bokke from spain(go bokke from spain)-267: If you rate the contributions of Kobus Kitty and Hondo, it says far more about you than anything you could possibly say.
Hahahahahahahahaha. Ooooooh.
Thanks for clearing it all up. I have just nicely placed you in the mental sand box next to Kobus Kitty and Hondo. I will let the rest of the folks on Keo know.
Happy blogging and fasten your seatbelt.
4 Aug 2010, 16:07 pm
@Simon(Simon)-265: Are you serious? Transformation in your book is the mirror image of Aparheid, is it not? The point is that, with a professional team in the area, players like Tiger Mangweni, the Ndungane’s, Mvovo, Deon Keyser, Ricardo Laubscher, Wayne Van Heerden, ? Plaatjies, Gcobani Bobo, et al would have had the opportunity to ply their trade in the Eastern Cape. That would also mean that other provinces, like the Bulls and Sharks, would have to develop their own players of colour in stead of just offering EC talent contracts and thus disguise their own lack of transformation.
4 Aug 2010, 16:09 pm
@Simon(Simon)-265:
that an extremely limited, short-term take on things… perhaps a longer-term, more open-minded view would best serve you here… having a team and franchise to attract and keep local players would definitely benefit transformation and rugby…
but you know that…
personally i would have enjoyed a rugby article on how the players performed… what style the team employed… do we see solly’s thumb print on them… what were their strengths and weaknesses… how guys like rory duncan and others who have been out of the loop featured etc etc…
but you’ve definitely taken the low-hits-first-road option here… but then that shouldn’t really surprise us i guess…
pity you waste a talent such as yours on dredging the bottom of the barrel and then turning the barrel over and looking for the nasty goggas that crawl around in the dark and dirt beneath it… and when you don’t find them… you still tell everyone they’re there…
4 Aug 2010, 16:09 pm
@XhosaKid(XhosaKid)@PissAnt(PissAnt)-192:
” Xhosa you are preaching to the converted buddy.”
If this is a “buddy “I wonder what the real rugby enemy looks like.
You will not find more deliberate clumsiness, planned disinformation based on huge lack, and disregard, of the real situation and abominable arrogance all written to forment confusion than you will read from this particular poster and I will use his own words to reveal and expose that.
4 Aug 2010, 16:10 pm
@Simon(Simon)-265:
You opened a can of worms here, then made it worse with your poll.
The are many paths to transformation and having a Super Franchise representing the region containing the largest population of black rugby players and supporters is just one of them. Transforming rugby means spreading and strengthening its popularity amongst not only players but supporters as well. The one breeds the other. Besides, having an anchor franchise that can slow the drain of top players and attract others back, is a form of transformation in itself. Especially in an area that was traditionally the home of non racial rugby and the original SARU.
4 Aug 2010, 16:10 pm
@Simon(Simon)-265: YOU SAID:
“265. Simon(Simon) :
August 4th, 2010 at 3:50 pm
@rossoneri(rossoneri)-262: I counted the number of black players in the team because the Kings are telling everyone that their inclusion in Super Rugby will be a boost for transformation. If it’s not going to be a boost for transformation, then Saru may want to reconsider fighting so hard for them.”
I am just considering your post again Simon. Is it your agenda to prevent Saru from fighting for the Kings to gain Super rugby status?
Are you trying to get Saru to reconsider any assistance? Is that what your hateful Poll and article was really all about?
4 Aug 2010, 16:11 pm
@rossoneri(rossoneri)-272: My sentiment exactly.
@go bokke from spain(go bokke from spain)-273: Don’t you have a few casa’s their Spain – there are some more of you ilk we would like to send that way?
Oh, and by the way, your estimation that Eddie Andrews was a merit selection at provincial and national level proves to me that you are clutching at straws, my dear.
4 Aug 2010, 16:13 pm
Why give these 2nd rate BEE partners any voice. Let them actually get in to the CCup. They don’t deserve the inches.
4 Aug 2010, 16:16 pm
@David(David)-278: non racial rugby – I like that – because that is what this is all about.
@ufo(ufo)-276: Careful – don’t use concepts and language that is beyond the comprehension of the one addressed
4 Aug 2010, 16:17 pm
hey simon…?
this may well have been sung about you… but i’ll just say… this is for you…
I knew a man who lived in fear.
It was huge, it was angry it was drawing near.
Behind his house, a secret place
was the shadow of the demon he could never face.
He built a wall of steel and flame
And men with guns to keep it tame.
Then standing back he made it plain
that the nightmare would never ever rise again.
But the fear the fire and the guns remained.
It doesn’t matter now. It’s over anyhow.
He tells the world that it’s sleeping.
But as the night came round I heard it slowly sound.
It wasn’t roaring, it was weeping.
And then one day the neighbors came.
They were curious to know about the smoke and flame.
They stood around outside the wall,
but of course there was nothing to be heard at all.
‘My friends,’ he said, ‘we’ve reached our goal,
the threat is under firm control.
As long as peace and order reign,
I’ll be damned if I can see a reason to explain,
why the fear and the fire and the guns remained.’
It doesn’t matter now. It’s over anyhow.
He tells the world that it’s sleeping.
But as the night came round I heard it slowly sound.
It wasn’t roaring, it was weeping.
Is there a light, can you feel the light shine?
I think I’ve find a way through…
I know things have changed but the fear remained in me
till I touched the light in you.
Say it’s over now, it doesn’t matter now.
He tells the world that it’s sleeping.
But as the night came round I heard it slowly sound.
It wasn’t roaring, it was weeping…
4 Aug 2010, 16:18 pm
may be but i think your country would be better without people like you. i am fan of Real Sociedad of San Sebastian a football team. 15 years ago one of my fovorites players was Jonni Cuyami an africanspanish or africanbasque player. he played in the B team and he couldnt reach the first team. very sad for me, i rated him
no im not racist, thank you. but you are
4 Aug 2010, 16:18 pm
@goyougoodthing2(goyougoodthing2)-281: But the Bulls are in the Currie Cup! You know the Bulls are 25% black-owned, dont you?
4 Aug 2010, 16:23 pm
@Taahirah(Taahirah)-285:
You just schooled him.
4 Aug 2010, 16:26 pm
Rosso, i dont rate hondo or kobus kitty CABEZON!!! but for me your are like them, obsessed with the colour, the race. have you seen usa basketball team, where are the hispanos? the whites? in usa basketball team plays the best ¿bests? (you know my english is relly poor)
you are like a wall
4 Aug 2010, 16:26 pm
@Taahirah(Taahirah)-285: What has that got to do with a 1st Div, second rate team grabbing headlines?
Win the 1st Div, graduate, play the Bulls and the All Blacks if you must, beat them all and then you deserve column inches. Until then it’s just an unwarranted use of space.
Give it to the Griquas, their sponsors deserve the news and their team’s progress has been great.
This is just political nonsense.
4 Aug 2010, 16:27 pm
Oh my word and now we are quoting Bright Blue songs.
I think it is time to put this thread to sleep.
And send Simon to the border.
4 Aug 2010, 16:28 pm
@rossoneri(rossoneri)-286: Wind your neck in and READ what I said.
4 Aug 2010, 16:30 pm
@gunther(gunther)-289: Lightening the mood up a bit Gunther?
4 Aug 2010, 16:30 pm
@gunther(gunther)-289: Tree aan troep!
4 Aug 2010, 16:32 pm
@gunther(gunther)-289:
point being… call it anything you like… it still is what it still is…
4 Aug 2010, 16:34 pm
@XhosaKid(XhosaKid)
Post #277 has been strangely messed up.
Be careful and very wary of the so-called “buddy”.
PA @192
” Xhosa you are preaching to the converted buddy.”
Does a “buddy ” say this, let alone a converted one?
Post #15
” Sorry Solly, you talk the talk but in the years I have kept an interest in the region and their rugby every single guy has basically only talked a good game.”
” And ultimately a union or franchise can only be as strong as its administration and I don’t have much faith in yours. ”
Note how absolute and categorical it is?
Note particularly “every single guy” (which turns out to be one) and “don’t have much faith in yours.”(which turns out to be SARU and not EP)
These type of persons are absolute , catergorical, paternalistic, patronising and demonstrate repeatedly a white-is-right mentality.
They truly do not know the EC as they claim and have never seen nor will see Spring Roses, Union, St.Cyprians RFCs etc. or even the famed KWARU play the game in the most trying conditions known to a rugby player, but they want to pontificate to you and me about rugby, how deluded.
4 Aug 2010, 16:34 pm
Why do you think that this team is being pushed forward? Is it really for black development or is it a way to grab the power and money.
Take it, make hay while the sun shines and destroy it. Everything is about greed in SA.
4 Aug 2010, 16:34 pm
In the line of lightening things up, and this sort of thing just has me laughing, is one of the headlines in IOL today. The story is about the prime minister of Italy Silvio Berlusconi who supposedly used to have *** parties at his villa with a bunch pf prossies, and the headline (genuinely) is:
wait for it..
“Berlusconi fingered in four in a bed romp”
I’m still chuckling about it….
4 Aug 2010, 16:35 pm
@goyougoodthing2(goyougoodthing2)-290:
What are you so pissed about?
That the Kings small achievements towards bigger things are being discussed and that some of us are appauled at the trash written and the poll posted?
Are you threatened?
I cannot take you seriously on a rugby front, as you said franchise status must be awarded to the Griqwas WHO ARE ALREADY CATERED FOR BY THE CHEETAH’S.
But you didn;t know that ne? Like you didn’t know the Bulls have some black ownership and 66% of its fan base are black too.
If you did, you would not have made that ignorant comment about the BEE partnerships now would you.
4 Aug 2010, 16:35 pm
@goyougoodthing2(goyougoodthing2)-288: You brought up BEE partners. Surely the comment should be taken at face value, the Bulls have the most black ownership of any of the unions. Unless ofcourse “BEE partners” was meant to be hurtful? Surely not?
4 Aug 2010, 16:38 pm
@Taahirah(Taahirah)-298: I think he is still trying to get his left foot out of his mouth and he planted both feet squarely in there earlier.
4 Aug 2010, 16:41 pm
@rossoneri(rossoneri)-297: and @Taahirah(Taahirah)-298:
I think anyone with half a brain understands what I mean. The politics in the EC is known, the guys that run it have huge ulterior motives as anyone in rugby knows.
I don’t have a problem with a winning team, I have a problem with merit versus column inches. These guys are a tin pot team right now who wouldn’t beat the Lions. Seriously, you think they deserve a franchise?
You think by discounting test tickets to R100 as opposed to R450 you are telling the same story about filling seats? You think the government cares about this or do you think they see TV rights money!!!
Seeing this through the racial lens as a lot of people do always hides the truth and it’s such an easy card to play when things don’t go your way.
FFS wake up, if you really like rugby so much, look at the EC administration first and you may see the problem. Good luck to the players, I seriously hope they do well.
4 Aug 2010, 16:44 pm
The mood certainly needs lightening…
Let me get this right….
Simon is an aparteid spy…
Gobokke from Spain is actually Cape Spanish…
UFO has a special branch file as long as my Johnson from attending Bright Blue concerts.
A sports journalist in a safari suit
A Cape Spanish with a droopy tache
And a blue jean pant revolutionary…
It sounds like a bad joke…
4 Aug 2010, 16:45 pm
@XhosaKid(XhosaKid)
Look at this duplicitous post below:
@PissAnt(PissAnt)-38:
” There is no reason for this region to become hugely successful. But throughout the years they seem to be their own worst enemy. ”
This is the same “buddy” absolutely and catergorically saying the the region will, in fact, FAIL. That is the correct meaning of that statement, or is it duplicitously clumsy to deliberately cause confusion?
And they say they know everything about rugby and you and I and Rosso and Transie know little or nothing?
4 Aug 2010, 16:46 pm
@goyougoodthing2(goyougoodthing2)-300: two questions:
1. Who are the guys that are running the EC who have ulterior
motives and what are their motives.
2. The Melbourne Rebels are about to start their first ever
Super rugby season in 2012. What is their performance
history? Would the Lions beat them? And what was the match
and game performance history of the Force before they were
awarded Super rugby status?
I am waiting with bated breath for your reply.
4 Aug 2010, 16:47 pm
@gunther(gunther)-301:
4 Aug 2010, 16:48 pm
@rossoneri(rossoneri)-297:
Be careful he is from KWAZULU- NTL and you know my feeling about those delinquent colonialists of the last outpost.
Have I ever been wrong about those I have fingered?
4 Aug 2010, 16:49 pm
@gunther(gunther)-301:
you shouldn’t be bragging about the length of your, obviously very long, johnson on a rugby site…
4 Aug 2010, 16:50 pm
You guys all need to relax.
4 Aug 2010, 16:50 pm
@ET(ET)-302: It may not fail, but then again it just might. The region hasn’t exactly shone a light on the world in the past though.
Simple economics says different regions do different things. Money in SA is in JHB, lifestyle seems to be Cape Town, and a humid, muggy half cash half lifestyle seems to be Durban.
Absolutely demanding the the EC succeeds is like saying Charlize Theron would have been just as successful in Benoni and Hollywood. Nonsense, the movies and the guys with cash are in Hollywood and I don’t see them moving to Benoni to find another Chalize Theron or Charleen Wittstock.
What makes me angry is people who assume it’s a right to succedd just because.
Succeed because you are good enough, not because people feel sorry for you.
4 Aug 2010, 16:50 pm
@ET(ET)-305: as long as it wasn’t Silvio as per my post 296 it should be fine……
4 Aug 2010, 16:51 pm
@ET(ET)-305: They are a different crop for sure.
4 Aug 2010, 16:51 pm
@goyougoodthing2(goyougoodthing2)-300: h. I get it now. “BEE Partners” has been attributed a whole new meaning. By you. Its kinda like having your own secret language. Cool!
4 Aug 2010, 16:52 pm
@ET(ET)-305: ‘Have I ever been wrong about those I have fingered?’
what a superb question
4 Aug 2010, 16:53 pm
@David(David)-22:
The real answer is NONE even though he fingers ALL but ends up with an ‘iffy’ claim(not substantiated at all) of one eventually which is so peripheral and marginal to the discussion. Shades of white-is-right and that’s not Jake.
4 Aug 2010, 16:54 pm
@rossoneri(rossoneri)-303:
1. Cheeky Watson.
2. No of course not. The rebels should not have got a franchise and neither should anyone else. There isn’t enough talent already, wherever you throw a franchise. Melbourne is sport MENTAL though, they watch anything that moves and they have CASH. Trading one example of a bad decision based on greed for another doesn’t make sense. I don’t agree with either. On merit, who deserves a Super franchise? The guys who up to this year couldn’t make the semis of the 1st Div or the 5th team in SA, the Griquas, who have small budgets, limited resources and yet beat the big guys often.
4 Aug 2010, 16:54 pm
@Big Hit(Big Hit)-312:
Stick your neck out and substantiate depending on how you answer.
Don’t run away now.
4 Aug 2010, 16:54 pm
@Taahirah(Taahirah)-311:
4 Aug 2010, 16:55 pm
You people are so stupid you actually deserve Malema as president.
4 Aug 2010, 16:57 pm
@WP Till I Die(WP-Forever)-307:
Fence sitting again?
It is better to fence sit in the shadows because it is more shady there when the heat is on.
4 Aug 2010, 16:57 pm
Quite right biggie.
Personally I have never regretted fingering anyone.
4 Aug 2010, 16:58 pm
@goyougoodthing2(goyougoodthing2)-317: Now you’re just being mean.
And here I was hoping you’d teach me your supersecret language. 
4 Aug 2010, 17:00 pm
@gunther(gunther)-319: Me neither. Well there was this one time with Shaun in the shower. But we were wrestling! I dont know how that got in there!
4 Aug 2010, 17:00 pm
@ET(ET)-315: it was the sexual double entendre of your terminology I was admiring ET, perhaps I should spare my toilet humour for the younger bloggers in future.
4 Aug 2010, 17:01 pm
¿gunther whats “droopy tache”?
4 Aug 2010, 17:01 pm
@goyougoodthing2(goyougoodthing2)-314:
What is Cheeky’s agenda with developing the Kings in the EC, pray tell.
Griqwas are already taken care of with the Cheetahs. What is your response to the Force? When they received a super rugby franchise they did not even have a rugby union or team. They started from nothing, got the franchise the sponsorship and the players. In 2009 they beat every other Aussie team in Super rugby, and have been the Crusaders, 7 time champions bogey team.
So what CC matches OR some equavalent did they play to EARN super rugby status, and while you at it.
S12 status if you recall was just handed over to the current SA sides without them lifting a finger for it!
4 Aug 2010, 17:01 pm
@Taahirah(Taahirah)-320: LOL. I must admit the BEE thing was my foot in mouth for the day. I meant politics. Agendas make me cross. I want the players to do well, I just don’t trust those dodgy politicians, they are all up to no good.
4 Aug 2010, 17:02 pm
Taahirah
You sound like that Australian rugby league player..
4 Aug 2010, 17:02 pm
@stormersboy(stormersboy)-309:
Too one track-minded for me, you dirty sexist.
Be careful of getting too close to HG.He knows you are from the WC and will dumb you like an ugly wart(see nothing sexual there).
@Big Hit(Big Hit)-312:
Are you too onto this sexist bend now? How disturbing.
4 Aug 2010, 17:02 pm
@goyougoodthing2(goyougoodthing2)-317: Oh and please enlighten us on who the “you people” are?
4 Aug 2010, 17:05 pm
Right. I must go.
I still want a reply goyougoodthing2.
4 Aug 2010, 17:06 pm
@Big Hit(Big Hit)-322:
I realised after my reply but As Mr. G says if you make the correct choice nothing is not pleasureable about it(I’m on that trend here ).
4 Aug 2010, 17:06 pm
@rossoneri(rossoneri)-324: I’m not getting dragged into a debate about people in here, it’s not a forum to do that for many reasons. If you know the territory you may know the game.
As far as the Force, well as said, it’s irrelevant. They didn’t deserve it either. They have done well. Richard Branson did well with 50 quid. Most teens would have snorted the money and be dead already. Just because one franchise does okay, does that mean it’s a recipe for all. Of course not.
Don’t be silly and play the game in front of you, not the game that happened 4 years ago.
If you are worried about previously disadvantaged then it’s only fair that the San get a Super Rugby team. They were driven off their land but the tribes from the north who now mistakenly claim this as their own (ALL of them brown and white).
Fair is fair, who says they won’t do well, the Force have as you have stated. We can move the great white elephant Moses Mabidha Stadium to Namibia and let them play.
4 Aug 2010, 17:08 pm
@rossoneri(rossoneri)-328: You people are people who drag race into things, the white is right brigade like ET.
4 Aug 2010, 17:12 pm
Goyougoodthing
Personally I hope Julius becomes president.
I have already prepared a tender for a lapdancing club for the exclusive use igovernment.
The whisky will be Scottish
The cigars Cuban
The girls ukranian
The blow Colombian.
We are going to call it All Bar Bum.
My brotherfromanothermother Tony Yengeni already has dome investors lined up.
All struggle heroes get a 15% discount except Madiba who rocks for free and Grantie who pays full price.
4 Aug 2010, 17:16 pm
@gunther(gunther)-333: The only problem I see is that eventually Your Club will become Julius’ Club although you will have to pay for the Booze and cigars and girls still and you won’t be allowed in. Only Julius, Tony and Kim Ill will be members. Maybe Mugabe if he can asuage the rumours of VD.
4 Aug 2010, 17:17 pm
the spears/kings what the hell ever debate will never end.
I propose playoffs from the end of this very CC season.
Bottom ranked Superrugby side plays the Spears home and away.
And I say bottom ranked Superrugby side and not bottom ranked CC side….for obvious reason that most of the boks are away.
Playoff games at full strengh though.
Win…and you’re in.
And you’re not in until you do win the playoff.
conditions….no mass recruiting from outside the union for an intial 3-5 year period.
remember that the Spears are supposed to represent the “people of the eastern cape”…and that has been the marketing ploy all along and the Spears should be held to this.
Gaawd…can you imagine the hoohaa from the Stofiles if the spears selected a white boys only 15.
man o man
…that would be worth a chuckle.
4 Aug 2010, 17:17 pm
@goyougoodthing2(goyougoodthing2)-332:
Truth hurts does it not, now that you are trying so hard to appear to be humane and human and encountering some mocking in this process of reaching out to the barbarians of Africa as we were fingered.
BTW I reached out to you with the winner of the Durban July on Saturday at 8/1(Bold Silvano) and you did not offer me my 10%.
4 Aug 2010, 17:20 pm
@gunther(gunther)-333:
Since you know who I may know(Natal) I feel offended that I don’t get 25% discount.
4 Aug 2010, 17:22 pm
@gunther(gunther)-333:
Since too many of the girls are likely to be blondes G10 should be triple charged to discourage him from frequenting the place.
4 Aug 2010, 17:23 pm
@ET(ET)-336: I don’t play the ponies ET, should have listened, would gladly have paid.
As for barbarians of Africa, well it’s all about timing really. If you look at traditional law in Africa for example, as opposed to Medievil Europe, being hung, drawn and quartered in front of 1000s of people on the whim of a King is more barbaric than a king metting out justice based on the perspective of the tribal majority. Even a guilty verdict’s punishment was more human than the Europeans.
Barbarianism is the the problem, neither is the people of Africa but it is the landed gentry, the ruling class, as it has been here and in Europe. Europe has just had a little more time and more revolutions than us and therefore they are a little (and I mean little) wiser.
It’s not a colour thing, it’s histrionics. In rugby as in life. It’s clear what is happening here happened with Oliver Cromwell in England and also Napoleon in France.
It’s a mess, it will come right, things do, but not oevernight. Just wish people would see it for what it is and not throw the race thing at it when it suits.
4 Aug 2010, 17:24 pm
Goodthing
Julius will be president so he also rocks for free.
Tony is a shareholder.
Kim Ill doesn’t want to join because black men make him feel inadequate.
Bob is banned until he gets his leaky **** sorted out…
4 Aug 2010, 17:32 pm
ET
On that basis you too will rock for free.
Grantie will subsidise your bar tab…
4 Aug 2010, 17:35 pm
@goyougoodthing2(goyougoodthing2)-339:
You are too serious of late.
Life still goes on even if your Sharks have not won a Cup for some time and the ‘Boks are self-destructing again and as usual.
Don’t worry the ‘Boks will win, at least one of the next three, I promise you. I will contact Divvie about that to ensure it.
4 Aug 2010, 17:38 pm
@gunther(gunther)-341:
Man I knew you are a kind guy( must be genetic) but I did not expect such royal treatment.
At this rate I will be back in SA sooner that I anticipated.
Long live the CLUB.
4 Aug 2010, 17:42 pm
ET
Don’t get our club confused with Granties FAT BOYS CLUB which is the *** biker bar next door…
4 Aug 2010, 17:54 pm
@gunther(gunther)-344:
Defintely will not get it confused as I have my priorities straight as reflected in my expression of the enjoyment of fingering earlier.
How covenient for G10 as he can attend any or both depending on his moood or moodiness with all concerned.
Got to go(just about lunchtime on a ‘Klein Saterdag)and thanks for the fun.
4 Aug 2010, 18:20 pm
Good luck to them, solomons is a good coach and if the region takes off it will revolutionize sa rugby, in 10 years could be the main feeder of SA talent
4 Aug 2010, 19:06 pm
Jeez am I glad I popped into Keo today for a really good dose of stoopid from some of the pontificating, high horse riding, justice crusader, peace patroller, working class warrior idjits…
4 Aug 2010, 19:08 pm
Question: How many Liberals does it take to change a light bulb?
Answer: It takes ten, nine to deny that darkness exists and one to hire a Conservative (realist) to change it.
4 Aug 2010, 19:09 pm
Question: What is a Liberal’s primary “feeling?”
Answer: Envy
4 Aug 2010, 19:10 pm
Heavens Game
You are an imperialist running dog.
A colonial agent.
We shall drive your kind into the sea.
4 Aug 2010, 19:11 pm
bladdy hell how lame are some of these political comments – the PC brigade, I’d rather chew my arse off then share a cup of cammomile tea with these grrenpeace lame ducks.
4 Aug 2010, 19:11 pm
If all liberals in SA were on a boat in the middle of the ocean and it sank, who would be saved? …. SA!
4 Aug 2010, 19:13 pm
@gunther(gunther)-350: Can I whistle some bright blue / manfred mann on the way in…?
4 Aug 2010, 19:14 pm
If Helen Zille has her face lifted one more time she’ll have a beard!
4 Aug 2010, 19:15 pm
SA Rugby needs the kings like Helen Zille needs a Halloween mask
4 Aug 2010, 19:17 pm
Question – How many liberals does it take to screw in a light bulb?
Answer – One liberal and twenty eight delegates representing all the social, economic, and ethnic communities
4 Aug 2010, 19:18 pm
Liberals my ***, bunch of happy claspy zealots who think principles are a Russian currency
4 Aug 2010, 19:19 pm
Q: What’s the difference between Elvis and a clever Liberal?
A: Elvis has been sighted.
4 Aug 2010, 19:20 pm
Kings are a good thing, hopefully the crooks and corruption are kept in line, cos it’s a very impoverished area which could really be improved,
4 Aug 2010, 19:21 pm
Manfred has no struggle credentials..
Bright Blue might just get you off with a mild soaking.
I must run I have an investor meeting with Mr Yengeni.
Remember we are watching you.
4 Aug 2010, 19:23 pm
A liberal is man who will give away everything he doesn’t own
4 Aug 2010, 19:25 pm
@cab(cab)-359: Yeah right, the Kings will really improve an impoverished area. Maybe they will blind people with eternal hope…
4 Aug 2010, 19:25 pm
Just had a seafood pizza with a liberal dose of garlic……
4 Aug 2010, 19:27 pm
I am reliably informed that Comrade Zille sports the Brazilian.
At best another facelift will give her a moustache.
4 Aug 2010, 19:27 pm
@gunther(gunther)-360: Just remember the typical liberal’s story before doing your deal:
“I sit on a man’s back, choking him and making him carry me, and yet assure myself and others that I am very sorry for him and wish to ease his lot by all possible means – except by getting off his back.”
Liberals have it good…
4 Aug 2010, 19:28 pm
@gunther(gunther)-364: No dead badger?
4 Aug 2010, 19:30 pm
HG
I don’t subscribe to that, if the govt or SARU really cared they could manage the EC franchise to ensure the money generated was spent on the community and not skimmed off by management.
There us huge talent in that region.
However they need to come in as 6th sa franchise
4 Aug 2010, 19:32 pm
@cab(cab)-367: What, and make the S15 the S18… Pop goes the CC…
4 Aug 2010, 19:33 pm
@gunther(gunther)-360: And before I forget: “We who are liberal and progressive know that the poor are our equals in every sense except that of being equal to us.”
4 Aug 2010, 19:35 pm
Problem is the lefties got no brains and the conservatives got no heart
4 Aug 2010, 19:35 pm
@stormersboy(stormersboy)-363: A liberal dose of garlic is a profound suspension of judgement…
As in:
“There are two kinds of liberalism. A liberalism which is always, subterraneously authoritative and paternalistic, on the side of one’s good conscience. And then there is a liberalism which is more ethical than political; one would have to find another name for this. Something like a profound suspension of judgment.”
4 Aug 2010, 19:37 pm
@cab(cab)-370: Conservatives have real heart and liberals are definitely blessed with a hefty dose of stoopid…
4 Aug 2010, 19:39 pm
Last quote for now particularly relevant to those high horse riders:
“Liberalism is totalitarianism with a human face”
4 Aug 2010, 19:42 pm
Consevatives have no heart, they typically only interested in themselves, not in a fairer overall society
4 Aug 2010, 19:43 pm
@Heavens Game(Heavens Game)-371: I’m neither a liberal or a conservative. I’m an egoist.
4 Aug 2010, 19:44 pm
@Heavens Game(Heavens Game)-349: Politics has no left and right anymore. Other than extremists on both sides every one else is in the middle to ensure maximum votes.
4 Aug 2010, 19:45 pm
Liberalism is in fact totally against totalitarianism.
Its only south Africans who totally misunderstood the actual meaning of the word
4 Aug 2010, 19:47 pm
@Heavens Game(Heavens Game)-369: Actually you are wrong:
The poor are poor usually because they are weaker and more stupid than the rich. Except some poor people, they are poor because they are nice people and nice people don’t do well in the bully’s playground.
The poor have less talent, less opportunity, less ambition, less drive, less intelligence it seems no motivation to change any of the above.
4 Aug 2010, 19:48 pm
@stormersboy(stormersboy)-375: Dude I am all for equal rights, as long as I am the boss.
4 Aug 2010, 19:50 pm
@goyougoodthing2(goyougoodthing2)-376: Politics and society certainly has many “do-gooder”, “high-horse” riding moralistic, flip flopping fools – they are called liberals. Yes, nothing to do with left or right – rather a need to control through preaching the right moralistic way – always their way, of course…
4 Aug 2010, 19:54 pm
@goyougoodthing2(goyougoodthing2)-378: You have elements of truth there – natural selection and all that…
My “We” was not including me as a liberal… Me, I love liberals – great comedy and a decent dose of suspended reality…
4 Aug 2010, 19:54 pm
@Heavens Game(Heavens Game)-380: Somewhere society has invented the idea that, at some point, all was right and we have lost the plot.
It’s never been right. Kids only started going to school 100 years ago, girls later than that. Teen pregnancy – always been the way of it. Slavery, lack of food and medication was the norm.
The idea that things have gone to pot need a wake up call. I’d like a time machine and take them back 100 years for a root canal and see how they like it. Or see how Mr Selebi would like being shipped off the Australia for theft, in the hold of a ship, shackled for 8 months.
Child labour, always been around. Oppression of the stupid, always been around. Not sure what all the fuss is about.
Leaders everywhere have always been corrupt, out for themselves. What’s new?
Problem is: people are stupid.
4 Aug 2010, 19:54 pm
@cab(cab)-377: Yeah, liberals are totalitarian about that, definitely…
4 Aug 2010, 19:56 pm
Nope do-gooders either genuinely do good or they are all talk. Those that get on their high horse typically do so rwgardless of their poltical beliefs, likewise for flip floppers. While it’s true conservatives like to maintain the status quo if they percieve a benefit for themselves, they quie happy to change their principles otherwise, as exceptonally evidence by the amazing inability to ever find a south african who voted fir apartheid
4 Aug 2010, 19:57 pm
@goyougoodthing2(goyougoodthing2)-382: I refer you to my opening comment today:
“Jeez am I glad I popped into Keo today for a really good dose of stoopid from some of the pontificating, high horse riding, justice crusader, peace patroller, working class warrior idjits…”
4 Aug 2010, 19:58 pm
@stormersboy(stormersboy)-375: Egoist is always good in front of many mirrors…
4 Aug 2010, 19:58 pm
@Heavens Game(Heavens Game)-381: Yes natural selection… after 4.5 billion years of natural selection, people suddenly think they know better.
Successful people having to subsidise the non-successful can only weaken our species.
I blame the British and their nanny state politics, it’s made the whole world want to be Vicky Pollard.
4 Aug 2010, 20:00 pm
If u don’t bieve me look up the definitions of liberalism and totalitarianism, but it should be reasonably cleary from the words themselves.
4 Aug 2010, 20:01 pm
@Heavens Game(Heavens Game)-385: I know what you are getting at, but you see here is my thing:
I don’t really give a flying about what any one thinks or does. People are about as stupid as they want to be and I am not going to change that, or apologise for the fact that I think they are stupid.
Feckthefeckingfeccers.
4 Aug 2010, 20:03 pm
@Heavens Game(Heavens Game)-386: Most people are egoists. They just don’t realise it. Even when they’re behaving altruisticly, they’re doing it because it makes them feel better, not anyone else.
Once you get that construct, everything else becomes clearer, and your action isn’t clouded by doubt over your motives.
4 Aug 2010, 20:04 pm
@cab(cab)-384: Do gooders in my experience are like religious folk:
They are extremely excited to share their views with you but never keen to hear yours.
4 Aug 2010, 20:05 pm
“amazing inability to ever find a south african who voted fir apartheid” – same as you didn’t find many germans who supported nazism after WW2 and japanese who didn’t support imperial japan – difference is they got on with economic realities… Highly industrious and made a plan… they made many plans and implemented them…
Africa is generally about non-implementation and finding something to blame for non-accomplishment… (Successful World Cup was a good sign for SA)…
4 Aug 2010, 20:05 pm
@stormersboy(stormersboy)-390: ID, Ego and Super Ego, or ‘Me’ and the ‘Authentic Self’ if you are into enlightenment.
Everything is selfish.
4 Aug 2010, 20:06 pm
LoL
WTF has natural selection to do with human thoughts?
Why should successful ppl not subsidise the unsuccessful or unlucky?
4 Aug 2010, 20:08 pm
Anyway I’m off to play some online gaming. All about me after all…….
4 Aug 2010, 20:09 pm
@Heavens Game(Heavens Game)-392: To be fair, not supporting Imperialist Japan did have some consequences, the result ironically being the exact same thing as a Kamakazi Pilot.
Non-implementation is not the sole preserve of Africa. They blame everyone else for their woes while sitting on their arrses the same as the poor poms, the rednecks the marginalised.
Only here it unfortunately makes up a rather large size of the populace. Shaka proved the only way to get them to do anything was with a big stick, but since 1994 we are not allowed to use them
4 Aug 2010, 20:12 pm
@cab(cab)-394: Why should I subsidise the poor? The only thing we are given in life is a life, the rest is up to you.
I never signed any contract saying my success must make me guilty and therefore I must give away vast chunks of it to people who can’t tie their own shoelaces.
All this euality and we are all equal nonsense is just a smokescreen, a political way to get votes. The truth is, we are not all equal, and most of that comes down to attitude, not ability.
4 Aug 2010, 20:13 pm
@stormersboy(stormersboy)-390: In economics its called rational choice (rational choice theory) – maximizing individual happiness or more technically expected probability x utility…
…some musings from a janitor…
4 Aug 2010, 20:14 pm
@goyougoodthing2(goyougoodthing2)-396: LOL… here we go.
4 Aug 2010, 20:15 pm
Goodthing,
in my experience do gooders just get on with doing good and ain’t too bothered about sharing their views.
but I think it’s good to share ideas, surely this us the hallmark of understanding and human progress, don’t mean ppl need to agree, just to listen.
4 Aug 2010, 20:17 pm
@Heavens Game(Heavens Game)-398: I know. That’s precisely what I was referring to. R.C.T. Makes perfect sense to me. Now if I could only get the great unwashed to agree….
4 Aug 2010, 20:18 pm
@stormersboy(stormersboy)-395: Try some COD MW2 – incredible online
Have just finished BFBC 2 – great sound. Will start online when time and banshee permit – egotism runs away
4 Aug 2010, 20:19 pm
@stormersboy(stormersboy)-401: Simply put, its the realism of the invisible hand in life
4 Aug 2010, 20:20 pm
@cab(cab)-400: “do gooders just get on with doing good and ain’t too bothered about sharing their views.” – classic
4 Aug 2010, 20:21 pm
@cab(cab)-400: There are a few genuine good people out there I guess. They are usually asking rich not-so-nice people for money to do their good, ironically.
Others do good to feel better, or to enforce a point of view.
I say: do whatever makes you feel good, as long as it doesn’t make another feel bad.
I’d legalise everything and tax it. yYou can give that money to the poor and stupid. I;m not into drugs but if that’s your thing go for it. Not into 5 dollar hoes either but if 2 people want to change for a 100 and a bumping of uglies is their jollies, who cares.
4 Aug 2010, 20:21 pm
hmmm so if everyone is an egotist what the fk happened when folk like Nelson M and mama T hit the scene?
If ppl only cared for themselves why would they stand in the way of a truck to protect there most dear?
4 Aug 2010, 20:22 pm
@stormersboy(stormersboy)-401: @Heavens Game(Heavens Game)-402:
Of course am an FPS man…
Too long to finish RTSs and dont like RPGs
4 Aug 2010, 20:24 pm
@cab(cab)-406: See 398. Musings of a janitor – it can be explained by maximum happiness
4 Aug 2010, 20:25 pm
@cab(cab)-406: Pardon but if you remember Mr Nelson was about to blow several people up before he went to jail. He had a life changing experience in there, and thank goodness he did.
There are exceptions to the rule, but in general people generally live down to my lowest expectations, until they do something even more stupid.
4 Aug 2010, 20:27 pm
Anyway, if you believe half the things people like me write on blogs like this, or believe we believe half the things we write then you need your head read.
How do I really feel… probably just about the same as everyone else.
4 Aug 2010, 20:29 pm
@Heavens Game(Heavens Game)-402: I’m currently playing rainbow six. COD rocks though. I play that when my mates and I take over his Internet Cafe for the evening for some LAN. Good fun but we can only do it occasionally. Not good for the domestic bliss to do it too often, which in turn negatively affects me and in turn conflicts with my epicurian tendancies…….
FPS’ers all the way. COD, MOH, and RB6. Don’t have time for strategy. Want to just plug in and go…..
Speaking of, see ya’ll….
@cab(cab)-406: I would most certainly step in fron of a truck to protect my own. I’d feel terrible if I didn’t…..
4 Aug 2010, 20:31 pm
@stormersboy(stormersboy)-411: cheers… RB6 Las Vegas is good…
4 Aug 2010, 20:31 pm
409 goodthing, yip that is a very interesting moral point, but I presume that you are then a total pacifist and dint believe any war or fight to be deserved, cos if there was one fight that was deserved it was that one
4 Aug 2010, 20:33 pm
@goyougoodthing2(goyougoodthing2)-409: “There are exceptions to the rule, but in general people generally live down to my lowest expectations, until they do something even more stupid” – why does a certain Van Zyl and Dolf show come to mind…
4 Aug 2010, 20:38 pm
@cab(cab)-413: Last post, will sum it up:
You are right, I am a pacifist, I don’t believe in war or corporal punishment or any of that stuff.
The reason is: I believe that I am right about all things and have the answers. If I were to run a place I’d totally take out the ‘wrong and the useless’. Of course, that would be my judgement of wrong and useless.
So, in order to feel better, I’d rather suggest no war is a good war and none are worth fighting. Are there some people that don’t deserve the life they have for the misery they have inflicted on others: sure but who am I to judge?
Dualism of life buddy, nothing is simple.
I do believe we are all responsible for our own happiness and the only thing that really irritates me are people that don’t. The blame others, the government, the state, their peers, their colour, creed, addictions, relationships, parents, sisters wives and husbands for the life they have. It is there creation. If I have no tolerance it is for people who are not responsible for their own lives. I feel zero attachment or moral obligation to them at all.
4 Aug 2010, 20:52 pm
Well let’s see how much of a pacifist you are when someone wants to enslave and exterminate you and yours cis of your tanned skin or ethnicity.
Very few like that, I respect them but I could not do that
4 Aug 2010, 20:59 pm
@cab(cab)-416: Read: dualist: I’d take the b;stards down as quick as look at them.
4 Aug 2010, 21:04 pm
Lol sounds like what you call duality is better called hypocracy.
4 Aug 2010, 21:13 pm
Everything, bar one or two, from 346 forwards to this point are the musings of the apologists of the most delusional social evil of their time bar none. They just took until they could no more.
Typical weaklings all who while away their time with sterile excuses for their undeserved seeming contentment and apparent happiness.
4 Aug 2010, 21:18 pm
@ET(ET)-419: Apartheid wasn’t my fault, I was too young ET
In 20 years you won’t find anyone who admits to having voted ANC either.
The 3rd Revolution will sort it out.
4 Aug 2010, 21:18 pm
I think there very few apologists, most don’t believe they did anything wrong and the few that do have not apologised for anything. In fact, they prefer not to speak about it.
4 Aug 2010, 21:19 pm
@cab(cab)-418: Like I said man, who knows what I think. This is a rugby blog, I don’t really care.
Have a good one.
Boks not to lose again this weekend. Yeah!
4 Aug 2010, 21:20 pm
418, lol, cheers, yeah let’s hope they win.
4 Aug 2010, 21:23 pm
@cab(cab)-421: How far back must people apologise anyway? Not seeing the ANC apologising to the San either.
All us folk, black and white should then leave this land and move north again, leaving it all to them. Or is that to inconvenient for most.
4 Aug 2010, 21:32 pm
@goyougoodthing2(goyougoodthing2)-420:
I guess you would like me to believe that your parents and those before them and thus you through them nver ever benefited from that social evil in many ways. Then explain how the gold all became owned by the Oppenheimer’s or the coal by those that owned those mines or any other resource of the country for that matter, none of which now evn belongs to the country any more.
I would sooner believe Eugene De Kock(Vlakplaas)then when he claims; ” I was one of the few policemen, perhaps the only, who wasn’t a racist”
Chew on that.
4 Aug 2010, 21:32 pm
424, just my observation, Ive never seen apologies, ppl just look to justify it, most of them just seem to complain and so any govt criticism is merely donned off as racist, and it probably is 90% of the time
4 Aug 2010, 21:36 pm
Wow, it’s so nice to be young and arrogant enough to believe that you actually understand life to the extent that you can lecture others. Professional cynicism is a veneer that covers Wildes definition of being “a man who knows the price of everything and the value of nothing”.
4 Aug 2010, 21:39 pm
@cab(cab)-421:
Does not at all solve the imperious messy problem that their christianity or any religion for that matter created. They all just wash or wring their hands while they still control the economy and continue taking.
It will all come to a shocking end sometime with a sorry tale to tell for those concerned and affected.
4 Aug 2010, 21:43 pm
@David(David)-427:
Who is this post addressed to?
4 Aug 2010, 21:48 pm
@ET(ET)-428:
Wise up. The Barney Barnatos and Oppenheimers did no more than identify and exploit an opportunity. The same as the present crop of black businessmen. The difference being that they actually created something. The fact that the way they did it was based on the exploitation of black labour and horrific conditions isn’t that relevent, as the present crop are more than happy to enrich themselves from their predecessors. Blood diamonds are still blood diamonds.
4 Aug 2010, 21:49 pm
@ET(ET)-429:
HG and GYGT.
4 Aug 2010, 21:50 pm
Lol what’s their Christianity got to do with it?
I’m all for a happy clappy bashing when they force it on others, but I don’t understand what that has to do with anything.
4 Aug 2010, 21:56 pm
An excellent point by David at 430, which IMO is what liberalism means.
4 Aug 2010, 22:02 pm
@David(David)-430:
Well firstly young is relative and arrogant I can afford because I played zero role in that social evil whatever so my conscience is clear.
And where do I absolve Blacks in general and the ANC specifically. So stop beating that false sounding drum as all exploiters are despicable humans(some countries thrived on this and delude their poor people in the process). Their is nothing for the British to be proud of in their colonies, mostly.
The problem clearly lies in the word exploit and do you absolve that( that which is not yours does not belong to you)? And what something did they create when it is beyond the reach of 90% of the population as is reflected by the overwhelming poverty of the majority.
4 Aug 2010, 22:04 pm
@cab(cab)-433:
Thanks Cab. I consider myself a true liberal, in the political sense. Not a white liberal.
4 Aug 2010, 22:05 pm
I must say I’m all for liberal government but I don’t personally believe in a system of unfettered capitalism in which either the barnatos or their black counterparts can get so rich while there is so much poverty. I font have much time for that, but it seems govt planning or big govt often leads to an accumulation of power and then corruption and eventually totalitarianism control. It’s a damn wierd world.
4 Aug 2010, 22:12 pm
ET agree to a large extent about imperialism, but on the other hand they brought alot of technology and infraatructure to SA. It remains a far wealthier country than the rest of Africa. Are you saying that a rural chiefdom lifestyle is preferable? No problem with that other than you being a western educated doctor in the US?
4 Aug 2010, 22:12 pm
@David(David)-431:
I thought #430 was your answer to me and I responded with #434 in response to #430 hence my reference to young is relative. But 434 is factual and thus relevant also to the now discussion.
BTW you were wrong yesterday or before about hindsight(Monday quaterbacking here) and JS, as I certainly called it against JS in 2008 already just before or after the TN(2008) squad was released. In fact I coined the term “2007 WC Champion Seniors” and named them as Smit, Matfield, FdP, Juan Smith, Bakkies, James, Monty, Burger and more. That is clearly foresight and not at all hindsight.
4 Aug 2010, 22:16 pm
@ET(ET)-434:
First, I wasn’t directing that post at you, and second I didn’t mention the ANC or black people generally. As for exploitation, I believe that exploitation of a resource that others have ignored or are unaware of is fair game. Exploitation of people isn’t. Colonialism is a popular target, and rightly so, but Africa ignores it’s own form of colonisation in the form of tribal expansionism and subjucation.
4 Aug 2010, 22:19 pm
@ET(ET)-438:
I thought I directed that “hindsight” remark to Grant10.
4 Aug 2010, 22:20 pm
Oh, a bit of Brit bashing going on….perhaps not a good time!!
@David(David)-439:
4 Aug 2010, 22:21 pm
@David(David)-427: My answer to that is lol
4 Aug 2010, 22:22 pm
I am getting this picture of ET charging accross the bushveld with an assegaai in one hand and his stethoscope in the other.
4 Aug 2010, 22:23 pm
@David(David)-439: And how do you “exploit” a resource, “wise” one?
4 Aug 2010, 22:23 pm
@Heavens Game(Heavens Game)-442:
Who cares.
4 Aug 2010, 22:26 pm
@Heavens Game(Heavens Game)-444:
Oh, put a sock in it.
4 Aug 2010, 22:27 pm
@cab(cab)-437:
False thinking that if you are saying we now have to give up all our natural resources forever.
Besides all that technology and infrastucture were built for the benefit of the managers(lords,ladies earls,governors) because of their inherent laziness and pomp and brattishness.
The technology and infrastructure they brought even today is beyond the benefit of the majority of the poor as witnessed by the very many who could not afford to attend the FWC at those marvelous stadiums.
BTW I have said before the Liberals are not my enemy but may confuse simple social issues that need to be dealt with honestly for the benefit of al (eg. like one effing tablet to be given to a mother about to give birth as this will reduce by up to 70% the possibility of the baby being HIV positive).
4 Aug 2010, 22:27 pm
@cab(cab)-443:
Dr Mzilikazi, I presume?
4 Aug 2010, 22:28 pm
Chief Drinksalot from the Zulu village iKissToomany just outside Durban.
4 Aug 2010, 22:29 pm
@David(David)-440:
Yes that is true it was directed at G10 but you wrote “no one ” had the foresight. Small matter.
4 Aug 2010, 22:30 pm
@ET(ET)-434: I wouldn’t say the Brits are too proud of their ANZAC colonies – look at how those little devious farkers turned out.
Hong Kong was a bit of a balls up, and as for Canada…
I suppose its the African colonies you’re spouting on about – those damn french, spanish, italians and portuguese always outdid them there.
I just can’t explain why the uncolonised rest of Africa did not develop to expectations…sorry!
4 Aug 2010, 22:33 pm
@ET(ET)-447: You should know by now that there is a nice cream to apply which also does a good job on HIV prophylaxis
4 Aug 2010, 22:37 pm
@David(David)-435: The principle feature of a liberal is sanctimoniousness.
By loudly denouncing all bad things – war and hunger and racism – liberals testify to their own terrific goodness.
More important, they promote themselves to membership in a self-selecting elite of those who care deeply about such things.
It’s a kind of natural aristocracy, and the “wonderful” thing about this aristocracy is that you don’t have to be brave, smart, strong or even lucky to join it, you just have to be a flip flopping liberal.
4 Aug 2010, 22:40 pm
@David(David)-439:
Yes I admitted to the error earlier and I thought that “wise up” of #430 was provocative for you so I felt I was compelled to answer and in the way I answered.
But you did refer to black business men and I despise them as much as any exploiter because they are so inclined too.
Exploitation of a resource is only acceptable if it is for the benefit of all. Exploitation of people(eg. workers, a common clonial weakness) is never acceptable(I am not saying you say so).
Alls well that ends well.
That #431 put things in perspective.
4 Aug 2010, 22:40 pm
@ET(ET)-447:
The AIDS issue is a complex one that has nothing to do with liberal thinking. AVRs need to be taken every day for the rest of a persons life. I’ve lost 2 friends who made the mistake of missing their daily dose for a few days.
The point about capitalism is that it’s driven by selfishness. The exploitation of SAs mineral resources happened because people recognised there was a market for them and risked time and money in prospecting. More people lost than gained.
4 Aug 2010, 22:42 pm
Brits given Africa plenty and took their share too, seems there are exploitative folk the world over, my point is that govt should be limited and directed at preventing this, the politicis should be ppl interested in public service and insuring fairness for those in most need – certainly under no circumstance at all to enrich themselves or their wealthy choms. This may be idealistic but it’s better than being blasé and cyncical and to start playing by their devious rules.
4 Aug 2010, 22:43 pm
@Heavens Game(Heavens Game)-451: The only thing the French, Spanish, Italians and Portuguese outdid the British on in Africa, was exploiting the locals and raping their respective economies. I’m not excusing colonialism, but it happened and the British installed infrastructure generally meant they left the colonised country in a better state than it is now.
4 Aug 2010, 22:46 pm
@David(David)-455: Some addenda:
1. Whats an AVR – an anti video recorder? I thought ARV’s or antiretrovirals are used in the treatment of HIV…
2. “The point about capitalism is that it’s driven by selfishness” – replace selfishness with self-interest and then you just about have it right.
4 Aug 2010, 22:46 pm
@Heavens Game(Heavens Game)-453:
Jeez, you really talk c r a p.
4 Aug 2010, 22:47 pm
@JockBok(JockBok)-457: Thankyou – you may have the right answer…
4 Aug 2010, 22:47 pm
@Heavens Game(Heavens Game)-451:
” I just can’t explain why the uncolonised rest of Africa did not develop to expectations…sorry ”
The answer is simple. They had more pressing problems of starvation and death to deal with and that is bsides not having the financial resources.
But I know you are being devious and provocative which I will ignore.
And stop going on about SH rugby so arrogantly as it is not our right to always win and it has hardly really occurred in the history of the game.
Got to put in my swimming mile for the day and rain threatens.
4 Aug 2010, 22:49 pm
Look up the definition for liberalism in the Oxford English dictionary and you will find no mention of the word sanctimonious.
That meaning is one which you have imported on the word. What’s more is that I am not one who believes in all this he who casts the first stone and all that smoothing over and blurring injustice. If something is wrong it’s a damn good think ppl act out against it imo.
If the liberals were the few that had any sort of conscience in old sa, good on them, it’s the others who should be ashamed and herein lies the nub of it.
4 Aug 2010, 22:50 pm
@ET(ET)-461: @ET(ET)-461:
You wouldn’t want to get wet.
4 Aug 2010, 22:50 pm
@Heavens Game(Heavens Game)-460: That’s quite alright. Always happy to help.
I’m sitting in a former French shithole at the moment (Togo) and the difference over the border in Ghana is night and day.
4 Aug 2010, 22:51 pm
@ET(ET)-454: “Exploitation of a resource is only acceptable if it is for the benefit of all” – could you please explain for a thick janitor like me…
…Because the extent of using a resource is determined by the need or demand of people for that resource. If peoples have a demand for that resource then how can it not be for the benefit of the many… And if the resource is used sustainably then how can it be “exploited”?
4 Aug 2010, 22:51 pm
@David(David)-455:
Defintely no connection.
As I wrote it I was hoping no one would think I was linking Aids to liberalism hence the brackets. That was just an example of an issue that I was giving. Sorry for that.
4 Aug 2010, 22:53 pm
@Heavens Game(Heavens Game)-465:
No I want you to remain a THICK janitor otherwise you become more of a nuisance.
You have corrupted enough already.
4 Aug 2010, 22:54 pm
@cab(cab)-462:
Yup, the whites who opposed apartheid were called liberals and communists. I have no problem with owning up to being a liberal, if that’s the criteria.
4 Aug 2010, 22:54 pm
@JockBok(JockBok)-464: Yup, can believe it…
Ghana is an interesting case study in development studies / economics – at independence it was about similar to S Korea in develpment, and as a country it had more natural resources…
A different trajectory of two nations…?
4 Aug 2010, 22:55 pm
@ET(ET)-467: Corrupted enough – WTF…?
4 Aug 2010, 22:56 pm
@David(David)-463:
I am in Florida for this last week before the Fall semester and the lightning is a HUGE threat to my life here in the water far more so than a demented HG, although I can see him charging me with a bread knife.
4 Aug 2010, 22:57 pm
@ET(ET)-466:
Cheers ET,go and enjoy your swim before it rains.
BTW, are you a Huffington Post follower?
4 Aug 2010, 22:58 pm
@ET(ET)-461: Yeah and that starvation and death is always somebody elses fault, hey…
4 Aug 2010, 23:01 pm
468 yip that’s right, pinko liberal commies, lol, the most uncommunist bunch out there, I’m more of a commie but not so much the pinko variety tho I do like a cup of tea and crumpet.
Are you joining your wife in Uk or staying home?
4 Aug 2010, 23:02 pm
@JockBok(JockBok)-464: I forgot to mention – sarcasm is a biyatch, just in case the tone of my comment about non-british colonies was misread
4 Aug 2010, 23:03 pm
@cab(cab)-474:
I’m staying home. Someones got to feed the cats. Crumpet is also good without tea, although a bit more energetic.
4 Aug 2010, 23:04 pm
@David(David)-468: there is a difference between a stoopid, commie loving, flip-flopping liberal and a libertarian…
Next time you have sight of a dictionary, look them up…
4 Aug 2010, 23:06 pm
@JockBok(JockBok)-457:
Don’t forget the Belgians. They literally raped their colonies.
4 Aug 2010, 23:10 pm
@Heavens Game(Heavens Game)-477:
I know what a libertarian is. Please, don’t demote me to your own intellectual level.
4 Aug 2010, 23:10 pm
@Heavens Game(Heavens Game)-469: I should also say, maybe it’s a bit unfair comparing todays countries to the end of colonialism 40 or 50 years ago, but I’m pretty sure the respective colonial powers influenced to a large degree the way the country was governed after independence.
Hence, Togo the toilet, and Ghana the vibrant economy next door.
Apologies for slow replies, do you know how many times I have now tried to send this very message??? Still, only 6 days left and I’m out of here for good….
4 Aug 2010, 23:10 pm
@David(David)-459:
Don’t get involved with this guy he is beyond crazy and is deliberately illogical as a means of confusing any issue.
I am truly gone now.
4 Aug 2010, 23:11 pm
David
great animals cats apart from when they **** in the house – toxic stuff. Pity you not over, the summers pretty good but the last few days been a bit iffy.
4 Aug 2010, 23:11 pm
“First there was racism. Then liberals created institutional racism and coded racism. You can only hear it with a dog whistle.”
4 Aug 2010, 23:12 pm
@JockBok(JockBok)-480: Project end…?
4 Aug 2010, 23:14 pm
@David(David)-479: Was this all “intellectual” for you…
4 Aug 2010, 23:15 pm
No first there was racism, then SA conservative whites created state-sanctioned and enforced racism, which took racism to a whole new level.
4 Aug 2010, 23:15 pm
@David(David)-478: Yes, the Congo in particular. But according to Allister Sparks, the Dutch were the worst out of the lot of them. Cape Town was a heck of a place to be if you weren’t white, burning out eyes for looking at white ladies for example, but nothing compared to Indonesia back in the day. ‘The Mind of South Afric’a I think the book’s called. Goes into a bit more detail than was required iirc.
4 Aug 2010, 23:17 pm
@cab(cab)-486: If I were you, I would just “Forget about it” (Al Pacino – Donnie Brasco)…
4 Aug 2010, 23:17 pm
487, jock, yip the best book on sa I’ve ever read
4 Aug 2010, 23:19 pm
@Heavens Game(Heavens Game)-484: Yes thank goodness. 14 months down the line and I’ll be back home in time for WP whipping the Bullyboys next weekend
4 Aug 2010, 23:19 pm
@JockBok(JockBok)-480: Um, S Korea was a colony…
4 Aug 2010, 23:20 pm
@cab(cab)-482:
Yeah, so my wife tells me. She had me traipseing (sp?) around the shops looking for summer clothes before she left, then phoned me about how cold it was when she arrived.
Are you back in the UK now?
@ET(ET)-481:
No, he isn’t crazy, just a p r i c k.
4 Aug 2010, 23:23 pm
@ET(ET)-481: You truly are a black pot being duplicitous with the kettle, ne?
4 Aug 2010, 23:25 pm
488 HG
what? The quote or apartheid? I’m actually pretty chilled about it these days, relatively speaking – but yeah it does tug me as a little all too easy for some.
4 Aug 2010, 23:25 pm
@JockBok(JockBok)-490: Good thing and hopefully you have some decent tax-free wonga in the bank to make it all worthwhile – unless you were there purely out of altruism…
4 Aug 2010, 23:26 pm
@cab(cab)-494: If you saw the movie you would understand – a double meaning…
4 Aug 2010, 23:28 pm
@JockBok(JockBok)-487:
The Belgians treated the Congo as a slave state. In fact Leopold actually tried to make it his personal possession.
As for Indonesia, I’m a product of the Dutch colonisation, my father being half Dutch and half Indonesian Malay. Strangely, my great, great grandmother, Princess Mai, was exiled to the Cape as a political prisoner. I say strangely, because I was born in England and had no knowledge of the history.
4 Aug 2010, 23:28 pm
Outtahere, ….a wailing cry rising in crescendo from upstairs can be heard… Banshee!!!
4 Aug 2010, 23:29 pm
492 David
yeah bit of a cold snap, yeah back in Uk, summers always good in nh where u really appreciate the seasons. Are u in jbg or back down to cape town?
4 Aug 2010, 23:32 pm
@Heavens Game(Heavens Game)-491: Was it, of who? Japan I think. But I was rattling on about Africa really. What are you rattling on about S Korea for?
@cab(cab)-489: Yes indeed Cab, me too. I’ve read it through a couple of times and often pick it up for a chapter or two.
4 Aug 2010, 23:32 pm
@cab(cab)-499:
Still in Jhb. Haven’t lived in Cape Town for 20 years now, and still miss it desperately.
4 Aug 2010, 23:37 pm
@David(David)-497: Wow, very interesting David.
I saw a history channel documentary about a month or so ago about the Belgian Congo. It was a couple of hours long and was absolutely horrendous. Leopold never even stepped foot in the place but made a fortune from it. Really disgusting stuff.
@Heavens Game(Heavens Game)-495:Nope, I’m there for the cash and am waiting on SARS to refund me a bucketload thanks very much
Not sure where I’m off to next, unless anyone on here has a need for a super duper top notch site manager/agent on the civils/construction side. All offers greatfully accepted anywhere in SA
4 Aug 2010, 23:38 pm
David
yeah u should move down to CT, was listening to jinx the other evening about going to watch the sunset and entered a sort of dreamlike state which was interrupted by the the thought of grant in his speedo.
Night
4 Aug 2010, 23:42 pm
@cab(cab)-503:
Yeah, I was also envious when he made that comment last night. Cheers Cab, and goodnight.
4 Aug 2010, 23:45 pm
@JockBok(JockBok)-502:
It was probably the worst violation of a population in colonial africas history. Today, it would be classified as genocide.
4 Aug 2010, 23:49 pm
Anyway, good night guys, whoever’s left.
5 Aug 2010, 00:04 am
@David(David)-506: Lol, yeah goodnight David. I’m onlyhere cos it’s taking about 10 mins to send a message. The amount of typing I’ve done only to lose it in cyber space is enough to try the patience of a saint
5 Aug 2010, 00:52 am
hi jock,
good luck with your break and job hunting (although am sure you will be in demand).
as info, the comparison with ghana after independence was malaysia – both countries were granted independence from uk in the same year – only difference was ghana was given a bit more cash to get started.
unfortunately, ghana was left in the dust.
much to the concern of many of my local friends who were confused by this apparent contradiction (seriously).
until a few expats explained a concept known as “work ethic” – unfortunately a previously unknown value to the populace who had, until this stage, relied almost entirely on gathering bananas or cocoa beans – you know, really tough intellectually demanding tasks.
the rest is history
5 Aug 2010, 07:42 am
@goyougoodthing2(goyougoodthing2)-379: All people are equal; some are just more equal than others…
5 Aug 2010, 08:02 am
@David(David)-505:
@David(David)-505:
South Africa has its own genocide.
Worse Than War
The UCA Report on Murder in South Africa reveals that according to the official statistics, in the 44 years from 1950 to 1993, there was an average of 7036 murders per year. This covered the turbulent strife of the apartheid years of warfare, conflict, terrorism, riots and repression.
However, in the first eight years (of peace) of the new democratic dispensation, under the ANC, an average of 24 206 murders were committed each year – officially!. However, if the Interpol statistics are accepted, then the murder rate in South Africa during the ANC years has averaged 47 882 per year.
Nice…
5 Aug 2010, 08:28 am
@Great White Shark(Predawn)-510: Where did you get that info from? Really shocking……
5 Aug 2010, 08:36 am
I know bru. Can’t recall the site unfortunately.
I can’t even go on leave to South Africa until I have gotten clearance from the United Nations Department of Safety and Security, because the Security Phase for South Africa is so high.
5 Aug 2010, 08:47 am
@Great White Shark(Predawn)-512: Seriously? That’s hectic.
I worked for a British company in SA about 10 years ago. I was one of two or three locals, and the rest were expats from around the world, places like Hong Kong, Bahrain etc. (Poms working in the offshore havens). Well, these guys arrived with their pounds and totally went to town, BMW M3′s, etc. No sooner had they bought half this stuff than they were getting highjacked, robbed etc. The parent company also send out a memo restricting us from travel to JHB central except in emergencies etc. It was quite hectic.
The last straw was when the regional head was house-jacked with his wife and kids in Morningside, noboddy badly hurt but severly traumatised. The next week the company pulled the plug on SA. Sad, crime killing busines…..
5 Aug 2010, 08:57 am
@Great White Shark(Predawn)-510:
That is utter propaganda – I have trawled the Internet and I can find that exact post – replicated a number of times – and all of it on your typical Afropessimist, rightwing, or ultraconservative Christian websites that talk of white genocide and how much SA sucks.
However there is absolutely NO source documents existing? I would love to know who the author of this “UCA report” is? What the hell is UCA? The University for the Creative Arts? The Uniting Church in Australia? The University of Cadiz? The University of Central Arkansas? The University of Central Asia?
Please do enlighten me – because from where I stand all I can see is a naive fool who’s had the wool pulled over his eyes and has accepted a sensationalist post without checking its veracity, blindly accepting it as the truth and, even worse, has now disseminated it.
Never, ever, accept anything as the truth. Question everything. Otherwise you’re just being taken for a ride.
5 Aug 2010, 09:00 am
@Great White Shark(Predawn)-510:
I think you might find that the figures for 1950 to 1993 were much higher. It’s just that the SAP weren’t particularly interested in opening dockets for township crime.
I’m not justifying the figures since, just saying that I find the comparison rather suspicious.
5 Aug 2010, 09:03 am
@David(David)-515:
Especially if you go and conduct some Internet research and see on what sort of websites that exact post is being replicated, without any source being credited.
Very convenient.
The people who run these sort of right-wing websites have become very adept at propaganda and fear-mongering, Joseph Goebbels would have been proud…
5 Aug 2010, 09:04 am
@WP Till I Die(WP-Forever)-514:
Good post.
5 Aug 2010, 09:05 am
@David(David)-515: I think you’ll find that much of the police force are still very reluctant to open dockets on pretty much anything……
5 Aug 2010, 09:08 am
Errm… what was so wrong with colonialism?
Where would Africa, for example, be today without it?
The benefits FAR outweigh any negatives.
Thank god the British colonised SA and established our amazing infrastructure and industry.
The challenge is whether SA can maintain it. Almost every other African country hasn’t been able to.
5 Aug 2010, 09:13 am
@stormersboy(stormersboy)-518:
Yeah. Seriously, though, prior to the ’90s the police were more interested in ensuring the safety of the white areas with the townships left mainly to their own devices. To a great extent it was similar to the SWC. A little known fact is that the police worked with the township criminals, because they were more valuable to them as political informers than in prison.
5 Aug 2010, 09:18 am
@David(David)-520:
However – the currently proposed media tribunal and the onslaught by the ANC against the media, is one of the biggest threats to individual freedom and democracy we’ve faced in this country since 1994.
5 Aug 2010, 09:19 am
@Remember when Teichman was dropped before ‘99 RWC?(Paper Tiger with Nuclear Teeth)-519: ‘Thank god the British colonised SA and established our amazing infrastructure and industry.’
agree, I’m not sure about the other European colonisers (South America doesn’t look in great shape) but Britain put a little bit back in for the future of nations they colonised, probably not altruistically but as long as the benefit accrued then it has to be viewed as a positive thing.
5 Aug 2010, 09:21 am
@David(David)-520: Sure, no doubt. I read a report a few years ago about crime and demographics and the people worst affected by crime in this country, adjusted for population percentage, is still Black people by far. So yes, crime is a massive problem, and needs urgent adressing, but it affects everyone, not just certain population groups.
As an aside, my wife is a psychologist and has worked with people in the Police services. The conditions and restrictions that these guys have to work under is attrocious. No wonder things are so inefficient….
5 Aug 2010, 09:29 am
@WP Till I Die(WP-Forever)-521:
I totally agree. It didn’t help that one of their justifications was the publicity given to internal leaks from their own party.
@stormersboy(stormersboy)-523:
It does need addressing, I agree. One of the problems is, in the past, police efforts were concentrated on the white areas whereas now, they’re far too widely stretched for their numbers. Politics has also ensured that an enormous amount of experience has left.
5 Aug 2010, 09:36 am
@Big Hit(Big Hit)-522:
Colonisation was rather like the curates egg and depends on your standpoint. The USA is where it is because of the European immigrants, although the indiginous Americans might have a more jaundiced view on the subject. Under Mussolini the trains ran on time and Hitler took Germany out of the post WWI depression. Thankfully history is just that, and we can only influence the present and future.
5 Aug 2010, 09:42 am
@David(David)-525: I don’t think it’s fair to relate Britain’s colonisation with that of the fascist policies of Hitler and Mussolini. The natives of the time (for the most part) certainly wouldn’t have welcomed intruders but when assessing the influence of colonisation at this point surely you have to take the long term perspective, and it’s hard to argue that it wasn’t positive for the development of the colonised nations.
5 Aug 2010, 09:52 am
@Big Hit(Big Hit)-526:
What I was attempting to do was to give examples of how “improvements” can also have a downside. Not compare colonisation to Hitler and Mussolini. Although as you mention some colinist were more brutal that others. Neither Mzilikazi, when he was building his N’debele nation, nor Shaka, the Zulu one, worried about the cost to the people they were conquering.
5 Aug 2010, 09:53 am
Jeez, my spelling typos are embarrassing.
5 Aug 2010, 09:56 am
@David(David)-527: understood, I agree, perspective is everything as you say.
5 Aug 2010, 10:00 am
@David(David)-527: Exactly. Judgements are always difficult when viewed through the cultural norms and standards of a different time.
If you look at the Greeks, when they conquered a city it was expected that the men would all be killed and the women and children taken as slaves. Yet we view them as great cultural innovators (which they were), yet at the same time they were capable of immense cruelty (viewed by todays standards). So there was good and bad about most conquests (colonisation was most certainly that), but depending on the opinion or agenda of the person, it can be seen both ways. The truth tends to lie somewhere in-between. Both progress and oppression invariably resulted, in vaying degrees depending on the circumstance.
5 Aug 2010, 10:51 am
@stormersboy(stormersboy)-511: don’t believe anything Predawn writes on this site, especially if it is not about rugby, he is a confirmed liar and twists facts to make his often negative points about south africa. Look, he can’t even gat himself to give you the website where he got that (mis)information.
5 Aug 2010, 11:50 am
hehehe…
very revealing that those labelled “liberals” and “do-gooders” attract so much vitriole… says way more about those spewing the vitriole than it does about the alleged “liberals” and “do-gooders”…
rather a do-gooder any day… than a do-nothing…
but then again… maybe standing in their safe and isolated comfort-zones on the outskirts shouting the odds and cursing the do-gooders makes them feel better about themselves…
sheesh dawg… issues…!!
5 Aug 2010, 12:04 pm
Gee, I thought this was supposed to be a rugby blog. If I want crime analysis or revisionist history, I can go elsewhere for that.
5 Aug 2010, 13:28 pm
@WP Till I Die(WP-Forever)-514:
Well something has shakenly disturbed you from that demanding balancing act called fence-sitting. Whatever it is or was your response to post #510 is worth that effort.
If you are to fence-sit it is far, far better do do so on the fence of just TRUTH(it’s really shady there) and to hell with keeping your nose clean.
5 Aug 2010, 13:48 pm
@ET(ET)-534:
How was your swim last night? Any lightning?
5 Aug 2010, 14:22 pm
@David(David)-535:
Wonderfully refreshing.
I’m quite good at dodging the lightning bullet wrt timing and for that I assiduously consult the radar component of the weather channel.
About 35 mins. after my activity the thunderstorm was flashing up the sky.
You do know tha Florida is the ‘lightning capital’ of the world and it kills many people every year.
Where is G10 he is so quiet?
5 Aug 2010, 14:30 pm
@ET(ET)-536:
I thought the highveld had that honour. G10s busy on the Hoskins thread.
5 Aug 2010, 14:46 pm
@David(David)-537:
Highveld? Not by a long mile and you know how dramatically these Americans can present any claim they think ranks as ‘world’s’ highest, best,longest etc.etc.
You coming from CT to JHB makes it look bad there on the Highveld but that’s really childsplay here.
In fact, they will with drama tell you about a city/town called Lakeland which is the “world’s lightning capital” and I am about 70 miles from that.
All Florida is danger area wrt lightning and I am very wary as I still want to live in my home in CT again.
I have just seen the G10 post.
It seems your wife being on vacation in England has afforded you lots of free time for the rugby, pity no SA games these last few weeks after the overseas leg of shame.
I recall you missing out on seeing a game because of wife’s car problem at the time. Wise move to sort that out promptly for her.
5 Aug 2010, 14:51 pm
@ET(ET)-538:
You’ve got a good memory. Yes, she had a flat battery out at Cedarwoods just as the game was about to start. I rushed out there, got her started and dived into the nearest pub to watch!
5 Aug 2010, 15:17 pm
@ufo(ufo)-532: excellent post my man…
5 Aug 2010, 16:21 pm
Mick 533,
yep fair comment, but occasionally there’s an article about the Kings which invokes a political reaction and from there on a discussion of history which normally ends up with a fight
5 Aug 2010, 17:36 pm
@Great White Shark(Predawn)-510: SWART GEVAAR IS TRULY COMING.
5 Aug 2010, 18:28 pm
F all this racial talk (article.) Have we learnt nothing? Are we that stupid as a nation?
5 Aug 2010, 18:31 pm
Alan Solomons is a Joke
That idiot should not be allowed back into main stream rugby
5 Aug 2010, 18:33 pm
@Boksarenumber4(Boksarenumber1)-544:
Make up your mind with your Nic. Are we 1 or 4?
5 Aug 2010, 19:02 pm
@David(David)-545:
We are 4
4
4
4
4
4
4
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