Boks need fresh faces
10 Aug 2010
MARK KEOHANE, in his Business Day column, believes Peter de Villiers should have rewarded Currie Cup form.
Western Province and the Sharks continue to provide national coach Peter de Villiers with a blueprint that emphasises playing the game at pace, offloading in the tackle and using both the ball and the width of the pitch.
Any neutral, having observed the demolition jobs in Kimberley and Durban, would declare the South African game in a healthy state. It was the same when the Bulls and the Stormers thrilled with their skill, intensity and pace in the Super 14 final.
At national level, however, it has looked dire, although there was little acknowledgement of this from De Villiers and his selectors in confirming the squad for the three home Tri-Nations Tests. De Villiers stuck with those who flopped in New Zealand and Australia. Much of it is understandable; some of it confusing.
Why hang onto players who at best are fringe players to the match 22? Why not use the next three weeks to introduce a couple of the form Currie Cup players to the Bok culture?
There was no reward for the standout youthful performers in the first five weeks of the Currie Cup, but there was a recall for Paris-based Frans Steyn, despite the fact that he has not played for two months, is in pre-season training and is battling an injury.
Steyn ordinarily should always be the first-choice fullback for South Africa, but these are not ordinary times for Steyn or De Villiers, who picked Steyn to play against Wales in Cardiff in the season’s first Test, but publicly slammed the player for lacking the necessary match fitness.
Since then Steyn has not played a game because of the French off-season and only recently returned to Paris for pre-season training. Don’t be surprised if Steyn withdraws because he is in no state to play against New Zealand and Australia.
If Steyn does not make it to Johannesburg this week, then De Villiers must invest in the attacking skills of Gio Aplon at fullback and Juan de Jongh at outside centre. The duo has played twice for Western Province since returning from Australasia and they are running hot. De Jongh, comfortable at 12 or 13, offers you more than Wynand Olivier.
Francois Hougaard must start at scrumhalf, although De Villiers’ love affair with Ricky Januarie knows no end and the continued selection is an act of defiance from the battling Bok coach. JP Pietersen’s physicality is also necessary on the wing, so you could be looking at four changes to the backline that played against Australia in Brisbane.
Among the forwards the loose-trio mix will have to change, and a place will have to be found for a flanker who specialises in playing to the ball. The best available loose-trio would be Francois Louw as the openside specialist, Juan Smith to add grunt as a ball carrier and Schalk Burger to play at No 8, with Pierre Spies to provide cover in the match 22.
Burger, the only loose forward who performed overseas, has played No 8 for the Boks before, and done so effectively. He is far more confrontational in contact than Spies and he has the ball-handling skills to match his physicality.
There won’t be any tampering to the tight five, mainly because of injury and suspension. There is no Bakkies Botha or Andries Bekker and Bismarck du Plessis played for just the first time in three months at the weekend, and he was understandably off the pace against the Lions.
The omission of Pat Lambie will be a talking point, but the more he plays the more obvious it is he will be on the end-of-year tour. He is a fantastic talent and he has now excelled playing at fullback, inside centre and flyhalf.
Fullback looks like his best position although his performance at flyhalf will have the selectors thinking that maybe they have found Morne Steyn a World Cup partner.
Sharks hooker Craig Burden is another who is excelling. Burden, converted from wing to hooker three years ago, is the form hooker in South Africa and his athleticism among hookers in this country is unmatched.
Others who have sparkled in recent weeks include Sharks lock Alastair Hargreaves, WP No 8 Duane Vermeulen and Bulls wing Gerhard van den Heever.
The Currie Cup continues to produce outstanding rugby and features wonderful talent. De Villiers has chosen to ignore the talent, but it would be crazy of him to ignore the playing blueprint that shows our players are capable of playing the game at pace.
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310 Comments
10 Aug 2010, 11:44 am
On the money.
10 Aug 2010, 11:46 am
There are too many players selected on the basis of what they can do and not on what they have been doing. Rewarding form is the best way to keep all the top players on there toes. Experience is all well and good how you are playing now is more important than how you played in times past.
10 Aug 2010, 11:53 am
ja we need to give the old workhorses a break and invest in some new talent
10 Aug 2010, 11:56 am
Keo there is a fine balance.
If we select on form only then we will be handing out more Bok caps than Straeuli as the form of any player fluctuates.
Not to mention good form in a local domestic competition is hardly a yardstick most of the time.
Yes selections can be more risky but considering a likely team for the All Blacks there will be enough risk balanced with some conservatism and experience.
Frans might be in the mix, Fourie’s suspension gives De Jongh the opp to play 13, JPP is back, Bismarck is back, Juan is back, Gio offers and option, Hougaard at 9…
2 or 3 youthful additions, return of some stalwarts – and this team is a different story all-together.
10 Aug 2010, 12:03 pm
HERE ARE SOME FRESH FACES ANY ONE OF THEM ARE GOOD ENOUGH TO PLAY FOR THE BOKS. MAYBE NOT AS A UNIT, (YOU NEVER KNOW), BUT INDIVIDUALS IN RESPECTIVE POSITIONS.
15.RIAN VILJOEN (GRIQUAS)
14.GIO APLON (WP)
13.JUAN DE JONGH(WP)
12.ANDRIES STAUSS (SHARKS)
11.GERHARD VAN DEN HEEVER (BULLS)
10.PATRICK LAMBIE (SHARKS)
9.JANO VERMAAK (LIONS)
8.WILLEM ALBERTS (SHARKS)
7.FRANCIOUS LOUW (BULLS)
6.HENDRO SCHOLTZ (CHEETAHS)
5.FLIP VAN DER MERWE (BULLS)
4.ALISTER HARGREAVES (SHARKS)
3.WP NELL (CHEETAHS)
2.GRAIG BURDEN (SHARKS)
1.BROCK HARRIS (WP)
16.TIAAN LIEBENBERG (WP)
17.PAT CILLIERS (SHARKS)
18.BAREND PIETERSE (CHEETAHS)
19.JAQUE BOTES (SHARKS)
20.FRANCIOUS HOUGAART (BULLS)
21.MEYER BOSMAN (CHEETAHS)
22.LWAZI MVOVO (SHARKS)
10 Aug 2010, 12:04 pm
I seem to remember that amongst Keos pearls of wisdom, in the past, was that the CC is not the place to select Boks from.
10 Aug 2010, 12:05 pm
lambie is a talent but as backup flyhalf to morne at the world cup?
a bit too early to be throwing that kind of talk around after just one game in that position surely keo?
frans steyn also spakled vs wp in the wet at 10…..once.
otherwise, just another article wanting wholesale changes when the players that are there are part and parcel of the earlier wholesale changes.
and by the way, a s14 and possible test-level player shining vs watered down teams in a cc is not an indication of a future superstar.
ffs.
10 Aug 2010, 12:06 pm
@David(David)-6: @PissAnt(PissAnt)-4:
you okes talk as much kuk as i do it seems.
10 Aug 2010, 12:09 pm
@rangerman(rangerman)-7: hiyas ranger
man you gotta love the arrogance from these stormers supporters
now the bulls are **** and they everything
they forget a month or so ago bulls with their full team , and in fact without bakkies slaughtered a full stormers team
as for lambie now as bok flyhalf backup , thats just crazy talk,so i agree with you
10 Aug 2010, 12:13 pm
@sharks_lover(sharks_lover)-9: howdy man.
hit and run from me as i am off to a meeting.
have a good one man!
10 Aug 2010, 12:13 pm
@rangerman(rangerman)-8:
Well, at least we understand each other.
10 Aug 2010, 12:13 pm
please leave our young sharks talent out the bok setup Keo
they get stuffed up and stuffed around and the sharks end up losing them
we all know what the bok setup did to steyn and ruan
10 Aug 2010, 12:14 pm
Keo sure knows how to sell to the fickle massess
CC is no good measure for potential test rugby players, especially these early matches
One week its consistency in selection
Next week its about form players
One week Super Rugby is the de facto standard
Next week CC is an accepted standard
The only consistency is the slating of PdV
10 Aug 2010, 12:15 pm
@sharks_lover(sharks_lover)-12:
Yeah, gave them inflated ideas about their own importance.
10 Aug 2010, 12:17 pm
@David(David)-14: hiyas dave lol
its amazing how short memories some in here have
btw it seems the sharks have lost deysel for around 6 to 8 weeks
damn knee injury
10 Aug 2010, 12:20 pm
Money money , who’s running the coaching in the bok team , the senior players. That’s what i think , same thing that happen in cricket and look where is out cricket at the moment. Same thing happening in rugby i ask ? They could have given youngster sins we can’t take the 3N this year. But the coaching stuff already decided we going to play what we have and basta with the rest.
10 Aug 2010, 12:22 pm
@Sharkie10(Sharkie10)-5: Vermeulan much better at 8, likewse Deysel at 6 and Fondse at 4.
10 Aug 2010, 12:24 pm
@sharks_lover(sharks_lover)-15:
That was careless of them, where did they losse him?
Seriously though, Sharkie, you still have a fair choice with Alberts, Keegan and Botes, although I don’t know what backups you’ve got if Keegan gets one of his brainfarts.
10 Aug 2010, 12:25 pm
@stormer in a teacup(stormer in a teacup)-2: Spot on, sir!!!!!
10 Aug 2010, 12:26 pm
lol number8 cant handle the sharks players in the mans team
stormers players always better huh??
10 Aug 2010, 12:30 pm
@David(David)-18: trust me wp will **** their pants if sharks had alberts and deysel as a combo
we all know what they did to stormers a little while ago when they played together
well i agree though they still have good players to choose from , and also micheal rhodes will be back by next week
so yes depth is there , and if ya havent noticed mate , daniel aint having brain **** , he is one of the most form and consistent players in the currie cup
10 Aug 2010, 12:32 pm
@PissAnt(PissAnt)-4: @rangerman(rangerman)-7:
Exactly gentlemen
Case in point was Sarel Pretorius this wknd vs Province,he has been the best 9 in watered-down CC,yet on this wknd against quality opposition he bombed.His decision making was terrible,missed crucial tackles etc etc was outplayed by Duvenage etc
Now that oke must front vs AB’s in front of 90 000 people?
GTFOH!!!
10 Aug 2010, 12:33 pm
Do not look at CC form – look at S14 form!
10 Aug 2010, 12:37 pm
@mshiniwami(mshiniwami)-22: mshini hiyas bro ^5
btw just wanted to mention to you , i hope you remember me telling you mvovo was the better player
again i aint saying vulidlu does not have talent , mvovo just a far better player with huge BMT
10 Aug 2010, 12:38 pm
@mshiniwami(mshiniwami)-22:
Shouldn’t that be GTFOOH?
10 Aug 2010, 12:38 pm
@sharks_lover(sharks_lover)-24: sorry had to rub it in as i hadnt seen ya in ages
10 Aug 2010, 12:39 pm
@sharks_lover(sharks_lover)-20: I included Deysel didnt i? Also your team full of Sharks and if i do recall, the form team in the cc happens to be WP. Hargreaves is useless.
10 Aug 2010, 12:45 pm
@sharks_lover(sharks_lover)-24:
Fair enough,I conceede.Mvovo has shown huge form this year especially in CC.Not ready to annoint his Bok class as for me he needs to replicate form in S14 to get into that category but he has impressed..APLENTY
Vulindlu should be starting for Sharks at 13 at very least on bench.Playing Terblanche at 13 is ridiculous & doesnt teach/add value to Sharks.He was outplayed by Murray on the weekend as well.
10 Aug 2010, 12:47 pm
@mshiniwami(mshiniwami)-28: back in for a moment.
the old man must go. he can coach or something.
stefan, respect but time has come.
10 Aug 2010, 12:48 pm
outplayed by murray?? lol … lol lol lol … is that even possible
10 Aug 2010, 12:53 pm
No way Keo. You DO NOT pick Boks on CC form. Coaches have made that mistake too often. Even for the EOYT, look rather at players that performed in the S14 and continued those performances into the CC.
10 Aug 2010, 12:55 pm
@mshiniwami(mshiniwami)-28: Mshini even though i agree stefan only to me had a really bad game the past weekend
and i hope vulindlu starts comming through , he big and strong , then there is mapoe??? well we should hear soon
as for murray must agree he played well
and as for Mvovo , Man he got huge talent and big Kahooners
and i agree he and lambie should not be messed up now in a bok setup , they need ore experience
10 Aug 2010, 12:56 pm
more
10 Aug 2010, 12:57 pm
mshini you seen deysel is out 6-8 weeks??
10 Aug 2010, 12:58 pm
If we are looking for a hooker that can fit into this new fast paced game are we looking to play then recall Schalk Brits from England.
He got the second or third most voted for player of year in the Premiership.
10 Aug 2010, 13:05 pm
@sharks_lover(sharks_lover)-34:
Yeah I heard about “Wolscooter” Deysel.Sad,wont be fully fit really till next year so there goes opportunity to blood him at Test level even more.
But Keegan has been in awesome form,with Alberts fit and firing as well adding Kanko we are well served in loose trio
10 Aug 2010, 13:10 pm
Let me get this straight. 2 years ago, Pdivvie, said we should play at pace and we should invest in such a gameplan. All about said no, he doesn’t know what we talking about (and I am collecting all the comments from the main bloggers of this site from 2 years ago). Everybody said we should follow the pragmatic approach and stick to our strengths.
So now Pdivvie needs to take players who never bought into a gameplan to play the situation?? Give me a break.
Since when is Craig Burden and the rest of these wannabes ever been good enough for Super 14. Now everybody wants DPdivvie to take these inexperienced players and by into a gameplan everybody said he shouldn’t implement.
Give me a break!!
10 Aug 2010, 13:11 pm
@Jonck(Jonck)-23:
WO is prove that even that is not a good idea sometimes.
10 Aug 2010, 13:12 pm
@skols(skols)-35:
And Ernst Joubert at 8.
10 Aug 2010, 13:14 pm
@sharks_lover(sharks_lover)-9:
Shark Lover, like a shark you have a feeble memory. The Bulls didn’t beat the Stormes in the Super 14 final. Craig Joubert did with his blatantly cr*p refereeing.
10 Aug 2010, 13:16 pm
I think the following should happen. Fire **** Muir and Gary Gold, get Alistair Coetzee and Matt Proudfoot in, with the vision that Alistair will take over after next year’s World Cup. For the short term, the following team is our best bet IMO:
15.) Joe Petersen (Get the boy back)
14.) Juan de Jongh
13.) Jacque Fourie
12.) Jean de Villiers
11.) Bryan Habana
10.) Peter Grant
9.) Francois Hougaard
8.) Duane Vermeuelen
7.) Francois Louw
6.) Schalk Burger
5.) Victor Matfield
4.) Bakkies Botha
3.) BJ Botha
2.) John Smit
1.) Beast Mtawaria
16.) CJ van der Linde
17.) Tiaan Liebenberg
18.) Andries Bekker
19.) Pierre Spies
20.) Ruan Pienaar
21.) Morne Steyn
22.) Franst Steyn
10 Aug 2010, 13:17 pm
BWHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA WHAT A JOKE
ALWAYS THE REF ,, FFS THE BULLS CLEANED THE FLOOR WTIH THE STORMERS
DUDE GROW A PAIR AND ADMIT IT WHEN UR TEAM LOST
eish ur a disgrace to the real stormers supporters
10 Aug 2010, 13:19 pm
@RugbyStudent(RugbyStudent)-37:
Some of these “experts” always amaze me.
Expose them and let’s see how they duck and dive.
10 Aug 2010, 13:20 pm
@RugbyStudent(RugbyStudent)-41: I’m a huge Stormers fan (and obviously you are too), but there’s just way too many Stormers in that team.
10 Aug 2010, 13:20 pm
@nama1(nama1)-43:
Its gonna take a while, but I’ve got a few already.
10 Aug 2010, 13:21 pm
@halfgk(halfgk)-44:
Well that’s just my team. Pick yours and lets see if we can argue the same points.
10 Aug 2010, 13:21 pm
@RugbyStudent(RugbyStudent)-41: lol @ youre team
so it has to be 85% stormers players ?? like the sharks loose trio slaughtered that same loose trio you have in youre team
morne steyn outclassed Pgrant totally and the list goes on
10 Aug 2010, 13:24 pm
From 2 years ago from KEO himself:
Hopefully Saturday’s Springbok performance puts to bed the taboo the word structure has become when discussing South Africa’s approach to international rugby in 2008.
Structure and balance combined for sensibility and a sensational result against an Australian team whose bodies were in Johannesburg but whose minds were definitely in Brisbane preparing for the Tri Nations climax against the All Blacks.
Hats off to Springbok coach Peter de Villiers for being prepared to accommodate a game plan more familiar to his players and equal applause to Bok captain Victor Matfield and halfbacks Fourie du Preez and Butch James whose tactical kicking ensured the first 40 minutes was territorially played in Australia’s half.
The Bok forwards, poor in Durban, fronted in Johannesburg and as good as they were the Australians were the opposite, and if Australia got their tactics right in the Durban victory they got everything wrong at Coca Cola Park. The Boks, this time, won the mind game as much as they did the physical confrontations. They showed that if you keep it simple and prioritise the basics then expansiveness comes easier against tired and ragged defences.
The Boks were strong in the scrum, but it was the collective effort of loose-forwards Schalk Burger, Juan Smith and Pierre Spies that determined how much Du Preez could dictate from scrumhalf. A week ago Du Preez was getting the ball with one foot going backwards. On Saturday he had the space to take two steps forward and determine whether to pass, probe with a kick or break. James was equally effective with so much front foot ball and Spies, at No 8, looked reborn with the hard yards being done in the engine room.
Structure is only boring if there is no belief in expansiveness within the framework of structure. De Villiers, as coach, is a disciple of offloading in the tackle, playing with width and allowing his players the freedom in decision-making, but where the Boks have stumbled this season is when they’ve tried to do this in their own half, without any foundation on the scoreboard and because of confusion to the definition of a structured framework. It is no risk to run from your tryline when you are 20 points to the good, but it becomes a 50/50 call when the match is still in the balance. It also becomes suicidal as Australia discovered in Johannesburg.
The Springboks on Saturday won the tight phase and breakdown battle first, with imposing physicality and calm minds, and then they thrilled the 54 000 crowd in very much the same way we have seen so many Bok teams do in recent years. They were more intelligent in their approach to the breakdown. They committed what was necessary in numbers and you saw no unnecessary diving over the top and clearing out for the sake of clearing out. There was as much intelligence to how they played as there was desperation and it was a victory in keeping with some of the more memorable in recent times.
Think of Carel du Plessis’s 1997 61-22 win against the Wallabies in Pretoria or Nick Mallett’s 52-10 win against France in Paris or a number of the wins under Jake White en-route to the 2007 World Cup. Those wins, like Saturday’s were achieved through playing sensible rugby, that if played with enough precision, power and dominance, usually gets described as sensational rugby.
Traditional Bok rugby is not boorish or about Boers. It is not reserved for whites only and it should not have such a stigma. Traditional South African rugby (for those still opposed to the term Bok) is when South African forwards impose their superior strength on the opposition, half backs with strong kicking games play percentage rugby and from 20 or 30 metres out skilled backs are played into a position to strike and wingers get to walk the ball over the tryline.
And once the platform is there then by all means play it off the cuff.
Bok coach De Villiers has been his own worst enemy by knocking previous Bok performances and his claim earlier in the week that the Boks have tried to copy the Australians since 1992 was one of the more outrageous. Fortunately, his on-field response, through a wise and complete game plan, was more articulate than the ramblings in the media.
This was a fine Bok victory, but anyone who thinks a new age game plan has finally arrived has incredibly short memories. Anyone with a recall of the last 10 years of Bok rugby’s finest performances will put this one in that bracket, just as they would have put last weekend’s defeat among the worst.
Peter de Villiers got it right on Saturday because he allowed his players to read from a script engrained in their heads and once they were comfortable with that they were also capable of implementing the kind of rugby De Villiers has spoken of all year.
There must be context to the win because against a sensible and determined Springbok team the Australians cowered like the yellow bellies we have known them to be in South Africa in the last decade. But there must also be celebration … for the Bok players and their embattled coach and his equally battered lieutenants.
10 Aug 2010, 13:27 pm
@Sharkie10(Sharkie10)-5: Its been a long time since Scholtz and Pieterse were fresh faces.
10 Aug 2010, 13:28 pm
Also from two years ago:
Peter de Villiers has denied a more structured approach allowed the Springboks to thrash Australia on Saturday.
The Boks scored eight tries in all, but the game was won in the first half thanks to a more structured attack and some fine tactical kicking for territory. As an advocate of a looser style that favours decision-making and very little structure, the Bok coach was asked whether more structure contributed to this victory.
“I think it’s not fair to say that,” he said.
The Bok coach followed this up by maintaining his side are still off the pace. His attitude remained consistent after he told the press earlier in the week he wasn’t concerned with winning or losing, but how the Boks played the game.
“We are only at 60-70% off where we want to be. There are a few technical things we will have to look at like how we could have stood up more in the tackle. I think our kicking and chasing could have been better – we could have put them under more pressure.
“But I’m happy that we took our opportunities. Last week we created a lot of chances but didn’t finish. Credit must go to the guys for believing in themselves and using those opportunities this week.”
There’s been a lot of criticism of the coach and his new style by the media and the public. De Villiers was booed after the loss at Kings Park, but at Ellis Park the crowd responded warmly to what was the biggest thrashing of an Australia side in history.
“Those critics, if they could only be patriotic and get behind their team instead of stomping on the people who gave them hours of joy last year and this year. We didn’t go out there to prove them wrong. We always believed in ourselves.”
As for the differing responses of the crowd, De Villiers referred to another biblical figure who suffered similar persecution.
“The same people who threw sticks and stones at ***** were the same people who changed their attitude when he became known as the son of God. But I’m not saying I’m God.”
By Jon Cardinelli, at Ellis Park, Johannesburg
10 Aug 2010, 13:28 pm
@stormer in a teacup(stormer in a teacup)-49: have to agree
i know you might say ya i am saying this because im a sharks supporter
but i dont think there is 2 harder men in SA rugby then deysel and alberts
**** as a combo they are destructive
10 Aug 2010, 13:35 pm
Kinda agree with you Keo, no better time than now to give some young talemnt a chance.
Next year is no time to do any blooding and if our core get injured we have no experienced backup. Even 5 to 10 tests given this eyar to youngsters would allow them to handle a WC better if needed.
Rest some of our core and condition them as Noakes says. ” montsh full rest and then recondition – PLEASE GOD!!! We will make a fantastic defense of our title if we rest and condition Smit, Vistor, Spies, Burger, Habana, Fourie for next year. Don;t do it and we are quarter finalists.
10 Aug 2010, 13:39 pm
@Mike H(Mike H)-52:
I just hope everybody will be patient and knowledgeable to know that rugby ebs and flows. So this year its New Zealand, if we recondition, next year will be ours.
10 Aug 2010, 13:39 pm
@sharks_lover(sharks_lover)-51:
Hard they definetley are but both are injury proned so maybe not hard and durable !!! they make it quite easy to plan to play against,both are crash ball experts, both only know one way and that’s ball under the arm…… vok voort !!!(not saying this is not required) both are not greyhounds……… stretch the ball and you basically deem them ineffective, I think in order for the Sharks to be really effective they should only ever play one at any given time !!
Having said that I think alberts gives you more than deysel, with a bit of work and some speed training Alberts can become a Bok !!
imho !!
10 Aug 2010, 13:51 pm
@Mike H(Mike H)-52: A Bok jersey should not be handed out just because a player makes a bit of an impression. Thats making the Boke jersey cheap. I’d rather have the rest of the current squad given an opportunity to start and resting players like:
Smit,
Matfield
Schalk
Spies
Morne
Habanna
Wynand
Give these players time to rest untill the play-off stages of the CC. Then put them on a conditioning programme and do the fine-tuning during the EOYT.
JMO
10 Aug 2010, 13:52 pm
I think that some players definitely deserve a chance in the Bok jersey. Jano Vermaak is one. Then I watched Riaan Viljoen over the weekend, something about him reminds me of Carel du Plessis. As a fullback he looks solid and he is always in position, safe hands and he is one of those players that doesn’t look rushed.
Mvovo also looked good, not sure how he will make the step up to test rugby, but he has safe hands as well, some vision and the ability to finish. To top it all, he’s got a solid pair of legs.
Despite all our talk about SA players being big and physical, the matches against the Aussies and the ABs made these claims look like absolute rubbish. We were bullied off the ball and whenever we had ball in hand we couldn’t make any progress.
As regards Spies, if he had better hands, I would have put him back on the wing to strike fear in the hearts of the opposition, but he doesn’t seem able to catch a ball.
10 Aug 2010, 13:57 pm
@UnbeataBULL(UnbeataBULL)-55:
If we rest Morne we need to find another replacement 10. Lambie is still too green there and the only other choice, which I’d go for, is JLP.
10 Aug 2010, 13:57 pm
hi there
10 Aug 2010, 13:58 pm
Step 1. Rest Habana. Play the other Habana aka Vd Heever!!!
10 Aug 2010, 14:01 pm
@UnbeataBULL(UnbeataBULL)-55: agree. rest everybody. Did someone say Web Ellis?
10 Aug 2010, 14:01 pm
Guppie lover is a twat. Sharks 3rd best team in sa and he goes on as if they had won the s14.
10 Aug 2010, 14:03 pm
@Number 8(Number 8)-61: the CC is not won until the fat lady sings
10 Aug 2010, 14:04 pm
Habana has typecast himself into the role as the world’s intercept king.
It used to be that he was simply the world’s fastest winger…those days are gone.
10 Aug 2010, 14:05 pm
@Number 8(Number 8)-61:
Sharks envy. You poor doodums.
10 Aug 2010, 14:06 pm
@shooter(shooter)-62: Facts based on results of s14.
10 Aug 2010, 14:07 pm
@Number 8(Number 8)-61: ur the twat here and where did i go on like they won the super 14?? , ur a moron twatwaffel
i merely said 2 certail players the hardest in the game in SA
i remember injuries stuffed the sharks up in the start of the super 14, and won the last 8 out of 9 games they played , which included the whipping of the stormers??????
as for guppy ?? better that then a broke back dude like you
10 Aug 2010, 14:08 pm
@Great White Shark(Predawn)-64: Envy what? Lots to admire down in Cape Town.
10 Aug 2010, 14:08 pm
@David(David)-57: Or Frans Steyn…not 1st choice, but hey….he doesn’t need any rest…He’s on vacation!
10 Aug 2010, 14:09 pm
@shooter(shooter)-62: exactly shooter
some of the stormers peeps are talking like they have won the CC
they aint won jack **** for maNY MANY YEARS
they writing off the bulls with big mouths
me thinks they will regret it come the final stages
10 Aug 2010, 14:09 pm
@sharks_lover(sharks_lover)-66: I would also be as bitter as you if i supported the guppies. Shame.
10 Aug 2010, 14:10 pm
A claim of alleged misconduct against Springbok Coach Peter de Villiers has been dismissed by SANZAR Judicial Officer Jannie Lubbe.
The misconduct charge related to comments made by the Springbok Coach on Australia’s Fox Sports ‘Rugby Club’ programme on 21 July 2010, in which De Villiers said: “I’ve got my own observations about the last two Tests, and maybe I can’t say it in public, but we do have a World Cup in New Zealand next year and maybe it was the right thing for them to win the games so they can attract more people to the games next year.”
Mr Lubbe heard the case on Friday 6 August 2010 and after considering the evidence decided that, on balance of probability, Mr de Villiers had not breached the SANZAR code of conduct.
Mr Lubbe stated that during his interview with Fox Sports, Mr De Villiers never mentioned or referred to referees or match-fixing.
“I’m satisfied with the outcome,” said De Villiers.
10 Aug 2010, 14:10 pm
@sharks_lover(sharks_lover)-69: You hope!!!
10 Aug 2010, 14:11 pm
@Number 8(Number 8)-67:
The chicks definitely.
10 Aug 2010, 14:12 pm
@Great White Shark(Predawn)-63: only lately. he used to score everytime he didn’t look at the camers ? ha, joke. no he is good. but he needs to do start doing something i-dont-know what- different. o n the other hand. Bring in VD Heever whoohooooooooooo!
and some centers that start seeing the ball from the scrum.
@Number 8(Number 8)-65: it is based on every competition ever with a final.
10 Aug 2010, 14:12 pm
come final stages bulls will have all there players back , then we can compare apples with apples
see number8 twat , you should learn to be more humble . south africa is not just about broke back mountain
you need to learn to give credit where its due
something you guys cant seem to give the bulls that whipped ur asses just like the sharks did
10 Aug 2010, 14:13 pm
@Number 8(Number 8)-70: ur the bitter one dude
10 Aug 2010, 14:14 pm
@shooter(shooter)-74: vd heever is a good player , only problem i see with his is poor defence , but that can be worked on
10 Aug 2010, 14:14 pm
@sharks_lover(sharks_lover)-76: Not a chance. Love the way my team is playing.
10 Aug 2010, 14:14 pm
same as de jong , kids a great talent with big heart
10 Aug 2010, 14:15 pm
@shooter(shooter)-74:
He married that stukkie and his brain turned to mush. Cape Town has made him soft and silly.
10 Aug 2010, 14:16 pm
@sharks_lover(sharks_lover)-69: in thge total truth of it. CC currently only have 5 possible semi finalists. last year proved that anything can happen. I think Sharks got knocked out, and they was de form team.
OFS can win it like a heavyweight with 36-1-30- 5
10 Aug 2010, 14:16 pm
It amazes me how Springbok coaches mess selections up so often.
We have depth that the world drools over yet we let incompetence and racism rule with Govt intervention. How much the world must look at us and shake their heads and mumble to themselves(because they are professional), what a screwed up place it is. Unlike PDV, who shows the lack there of.
South Africa is a sad place. The golden years of the 60′s could easily be re-reached but most unlikely, thanks to our Govt.
It boggles me how Jon, Mat, Brian(who needs a send off to sevens to learn how to play rugby. Since the soccer WC he has been behaving similar to soccer players. How do you chip and chase and deliberately run into a player, easy if you are looking for a penalty, but there goes a try for the taking.It aint soccer Brian, use your brain),spies and a few other senor players.
Actually i think many of our backline players should be sent to sevens to learn how to sidestep and read the gaps before the WC2011. What a huge difference that would make. Its a thought i have had for a yr now and think its a good idea. On the sevens circuit send backline players on a periodic rotation basis. A great boost for our dismal sevens and a recap on the grass root development for backline play.
Our selectors Gary, **** Peter, well dismal really. Maybe a new entrant so all 3 play from the same song sheet. This suposed Stomers/ Bulls confused way of play to a test is total bollocks, If true. They should be playing as a team not individuals. That will have us exit the WC in the Quarterfinals next your. Looks like some players need to pull their heads out from their arses and note where the sun really shines from!
10 Aug 2010, 14:17 pm
@sharks_lover(sharks_lover)-79:
I hear good things about this kid.
10 Aug 2010, 14:17 pm
@Number 8(Number 8)-78: and my teams not playing well?? lol ur a joke
no bitterness here
as i said , watch out for the bulls saturday, i hope ur team is as arrogant as you and think bulls is an easy game
and no i think wp should win they have far less players out
but like i said , bulls at full strength will be to much for the WP
10 Aug 2010, 14:18 pm
Hey Midget, Burden played centre not wing
10 Aug 2010, 14:20 pm
@Yetirat(Yetirat)-71: Teflon P-Divvy
10 Aug 2010, 14:22 pm
Midget is a matter of personal opinion. He’s as as strong as a mule and a pretty effective try scoring machine.
Some of our fat scrummies could take a few pointers from him on that…
10 Aug 2010, 14:22 pm
@Great White Shark(Predawn)-83: DE Jong?? yes predawn , i think that kids a serious talent , just like i believe lambie and mvovo are
its like a chat me and mshiniwami had about 15 months ago
i told him and i think it was xhosakid that mvov was a better player then vulindlu , and i was told no ways vulindlu is the man
but who is the star ?? mvovo
he has what vulindlu does not have , that BMT
same as lambie , huge BMT , this is wht even under pressure he is amaizingly calm
de jong is a bit older though , and i dont think they should rush lambie or mvovo into any bok setup right now
give them chance to develope fully
10 Aug 2010, 14:22 pm
Oh and onother thing, CC rugby is far off the pace of S14…. and even further off from International!!
To compare the likes of any player like Burden, Lambie to international players because of what the achieve against a team like the Lions is laughable to say the least!
10 Aug 2010, 14:22 pm
@Number 8(Number 8)-70: At least they’ve won the CC came very close to winning the S14 – they had us beaten – and winning the World cup with the Bulls this decade. What did the Stormer do? Diddly squat! So keep that big mouth shut!
@sharks_lover(sharks_lover)-75: Imagine how big his mouth would have been if – by some miracle – they actually won something? I guess winning the varsity cup is good enough for him to run his mouth!
10 Aug 2010, 14:25 pm
predawn agreed , burden is brilliant , but watch young kyle cooper
there is one strong little **** , and a genuine hooker
10 Aug 2010, 14:28 pm
@UnbeataBULL(UnbeataBULL)-90: lol
so true, and look i aint writing off the stormers , they playing great rugby and also maturing as a team
but see they dont see any good in other teams its only theres
hell i hope they write off the sharks and bulls , i know how rude the awakening will be
10 Aug 2010, 14:29 pm
KEO
this squad selection reveals 1 fact as large as the Texas prairie my man……clearly the inmates are running the Asylum.
Zero accountability, zero responsibility,
a FAT BOYS CLOSED CLUB…..
You are losing your hard nosed approach KEO….getting soft?
10 Aug 2010, 14:29 pm
I agree. Keep Lambie and Mvovo faaaaar away from the circus masquerading as the Springbok team and their even funnier ringmaster masquerading as a real South African international coach.
Those two kids need to get through the Currie Cup and then next year’s Super 15.
10 Aug 2010, 14:29 pm
@Great White Shark(Predawn)-87: I am calling the author a midget, not Burden actually rate him
10 Aug 2010, 14:30 pm
@sharks_lover(sharks_lover)-88:
De Jongh played Varsity Cup only a year or two back…
Nothing about age, but aptitude, if the guy is good enough even as a 19 year old get him involved.
10 Aug 2010, 14:31 pm
@Tisme(Tisme)-89: as much as i think the 2 players you mention are future super stars i have to agree with you
lambie is a future bok , and should be left to mature into first class rugby
same with mvovo
you cannot ever just throw away experience
10 Aug 2010, 14:32 pm
Lambie moved between 15, 12 and 10 with ease and impressed in Super rugby already which gives you an idea of his ability to handle pressure. No reason to hold him back if he is good enough.
10 Aug 2010, 14:32 pm
@Tisme(Tisme)-95:
Oh sorry.
10 Aug 2010, 14:35 pm
@PissAnt(PissAnt)-96: I dont agree. See what the 2003 WC did to Derick Hougaards confidence? We shouldn’t let Lambie go the same path. He’s a future bok…either FH or at 12, but give him at least 3 years to find his feet at this level.
10 Aug 2010, 14:36 pm
@PissAnt(PissAnt)-96: hiyas morne , normally i would agree with ya
and i agree de jong a special talen
my fear here is that lambie will just get stuffed around at the boks
under a better coaching system i guess i wouldnt have a problem with it
maybe im being a bit selfish for the sharks
but i have seen how the sharks players take the most flack in here and around , and funnily enough they the ones being messed around the most
yes i know lambie was shifted around at the sharks too due to injuries , but in his young career he was 10 and 15 and school levels etc
he is just amaizingly calm for someone so young , and has a great rugby brain, but de jong atleast played super 14 last year already
10 Aug 2010, 14:37 pm
Fact !!!!!!!!!!
Charl McLeod has the fastest service in SA by far……..unless anyone can think of anyone faster (maybe its credit to the sharks FWD’s)
10 Aug 2010, 14:37 pm
@PissAnt(PissAnt)-98: Thats the point, where do you play him in the international arena?
Another Ruan or Russel maybe, Jack of all master of none, let Lambie settle in a position and not be the band-aid for every position!
10 Aug 2010, 14:37 pm
@PissAnt(PissAnt)-4: here is a big reason the boks have struggled , you yourself explained to keo
to me thwe other big player not there that is extremely important to the boks is FDup
10 Aug 2010, 14:38 pm
@UnbeataBULL(UnbeataBULL)-100:
If you are good enough to make it now, you are good enough.
If his attitude and aptitude is that of international quality then age is not an issue.
Players who are mentally fragile and fail at test level is not so much age related imo at all, if you are mentally fragile you will stay mentally fragile.
10 Aug 2010, 14:38 pm
Keep Lambie away from the rot. Going down on an already sinking ship would not be the ideal start to his young career.
10 Aug 2010, 14:38 pm
just on F Steyn…..what the hell are they trying to do with this oke?
Frans….stay in Paris my man….you are being set up to fail…..
These palookas got themselves in the hole….let them navigate there way out…….dont sell your soul to these idiots…..you cant be close to 100% fit…..stay there boet.Come back on eoyt
10 Aug 2010, 14:39 pm
@Gonzo Journalism(Gonzo Journalism)-102: Hougardt is faster!
10 Aug 2010, 14:39 pm
@Gonzo Journalism(Gonzo Journalism)-102: Please look up the word fact in the dictionary.
10 Aug 2010, 14:40 pm
@Great White Shark(Predawn)-106: agree
10 Aug 2010, 14:40 pm
@sharks_lover(sharks_lover)-101: @Tisme(Tisme)-103:
That will be the most important question – if they use him where and why?
If that is not clear cut then yes I would agree with you, dont select him.
10 Aug 2010, 14:41 pm
and yes…..Lambie is too good a talent to be thrown to these 3 stooges….far better off with Plum …
10 Aug 2010, 14:42 pm
@Tisme(Tisme)-108: sorry i dont agree , and i am a hougaard fan , big heart player , but i think at scrummy having watching him play there as reserve for the boks and the bulls last week , his service was not great and he tends to want to do to much on his own
he needs more training there from fourie
at wing?? damn fine player and actually has been to me anyhows better then vd heever
10 Aug 2010, 14:42 pm
Jake White pulled a teenager Frans Steyn in 8 months out from the World Cup – the guy became a Superstar.
If we need Lambie as back-up to 10 or 15 I see no reason to pull him in.
I think he is good, and mature enough.
10 Aug 2010, 14:42 pm
Lambie can become a legend….same as De Jongh…..Lambie needs to decide and stick to 1 position…..please Plum dont fark the kid around.
10 Aug 2010, 14:43 pm
@grant10(grant10)-112: well well for once we agree lol hiyas grant
@PissAnt(PissAnt)-111: agreed
ur opinion having seen lambie in 3 positions , where would you play him??
10 Aug 2010, 14:43 pm
@UnbeataBULL(UnbeataBULL)-109:
Really now !!!!
10 Aug 2010, 14:44 pm
@grant10(grant10)-107:
I wonder if he wasn’t somehow pressurised into coming back by the senior players. If I was him I’d have not even taken any calls from South Africa except from ma n pa Steyn.
10 Aug 2010, 14:44 pm
@grant10(grant10)-115: lambie is such a level headed kid he will play anywhere the coach needs him
he has said his preferred position is 10 , but he also loves 15
then again we saw him shine at 12?? wtf
10 Aug 2010, 14:44 pm
watch the wp 12 ….paul Bosch……special.
10 Aug 2010, 14:46 pm
Debatable i reckon,
but what is true is that Ricky J is slowest
10 Aug 2010, 14:47 pm
@Tisme(Tisme)-89: quite right, which is why it is equally laughable for anyone to use Hougaard’s performances for the Bulls in the Currie Cup as a sort of measure of his aptitude for Test rugby! On the eoyt last year he was VERY poor, got charged down twice trying to box-kick!
Yet he is seen as ‘boon’ for the Boks! Wtf?
This is the same muddled logic that was used to punt both francois steyn & ruan into the Bok team
“they are too naturally talented to be left out of any Springbok team” what hogwash.
10 Aug 2010, 14:47 pm
@PissAnt(PissAnt)-114: morne i see plumtree is a bit down with deysel getting injured
he feels alberts and deysel together with lets say kanko , prolly the most destrudctive loose trio
raw power from deysel and alberts
lol before deysel got injured the no 7 flank of the lions tried to takle deysel head on
mistake he went turbo reversing on his ***
10 Aug 2010, 14:48 pm
@Great White Shark(Predawn)-118: ja….best he keeps far away from the 3 stooges…..now they kakking themselves and call him?
Cheap sods….@sharks_lover(sharks_lover)-119: That Lambie is a helleva player….helleva player i tell you….
For me he is a 10…..the time on the ball and his maturity and seemingly wise head is something to behold. Please SL….you okes must not create another Ruan or Frans here….PLEEEEZZZZZZZEEEEEEEEEE
10 Aug 2010, 14:48 pm
@sharks_lover(sharks_lover)-116:
Flyhalf.
10 Aug 2010, 14:48 pm
Craig Burden is not a good number 2.
Yes he has enthusiasim, yes he is athletic, yes he runs well ( hope so he used to play wing ), but we don’t ask that of a hooker.
We need someone who scrums well, throws straight in the lineout and is good in the tight.
On Saturday v the Lions Burden must have caught the ball in the flyhalf channel at least half a dozen times. If I were the coach I would rather my number 10 be running the game not my number 2.
I am a big sharks fan but Burden is a typical sharks show pony trying to across the try line in durban so he can get l*id after the game
10 Aug 2010, 14:49 pm
@grant10(grant10)-120: wp have some fine backline players comming through
10 Aug 2010, 14:49 pm
Grant 10 #120 – agree 100%, the guy is good
10 Aug 2010, 14:50 pm
PdV is an idiot and wouldn’t know a decent game plan if it was slapping him across the face.
10 Aug 2010, 14:51 pm
Ideally you would want Lambie to mature at 12 outside a good flyhalf like they did with Carter initially, but I think his future is at 10.
10 Aug 2010, 14:51 pm
@PissAnt(PissAnt)-125: @grant10(grant10)-124: aGREED he is a 10 and no doubt the sharks will play him 10/12
there is enough cover at 15 for the sharks
but yes the kids got all the skills to play 10
does however need to work harder on the kicking game
10 Aug 2010, 14:53 pm
@PissAnt(PissAnt)-130: again amen , as i said in the post just above to you / 10/12
there he can mature alongside a potgieter thats coming to the sharks
10 Aug 2010, 14:54 pm
lambie is a play maker , he needs to be clos to the action
10 Aug 2010, 14:57 pm
@sharks_lover(sharks_lover)-131: ja….he must do the hard practice annd sharpen up the boot…..
but again…..i beg you okes….do not fark the kid around…..these gems come around rarely…..nurture this talent…..for the sake of all of us…
10 Aug 2010, 14:58 pm
@PissAnt(PissAnt)-114: PissAnt, I agree with you. If you old enough and good enough with BMT why the heck not? Play him I say, only don’t mess him about in all 3 positions. Lambie should be taken on the eoyt and not to sit on the bench but to play him.
Frans Steyn went to the world cup as a 19 year old and he played in that world cup and won himself a gold medal.
Mvovo is almost 25 and should get a chance before he is too old.
10 Aug 2010, 14:58 pm
I have liked the look of Skeate of the Sharks, He and Bekker were planned as the next Springbok lock pairing. Where has Skeate been playing?
I also believe that there needs to be at least 8 new players in the springbok set up. De Villiers since he has come back from England is not good enough.
10 Aug 2010, 14:59 pm
@swynboer(swynboer)-136: Toulon
10 Aug 2010, 15:00 pm
@grant10(grant10)-134: Agree Grant, We at Sharks must not mess him about in all 3 positions but ALSO the Bok coach if he selects him must not mess him about. Steyn and Ruan got more messed about at the Boks than at the Sharks. It was the Bok coach who wanted Sharks to play Ruan at FH not Plum.
10 Aug 2010, 15:02 pm
@Puma(Puma)-138: agree….i always said plum had the toughest of jobs of all because of the ruan, frans and plod debacles….
Sharks must put there foot down with this kid…..i reckon he will be the next bok 10 given time…..
10 Aug 2010, 15:02 pm
@swynboer(swynboer)-136: Think in France. So pleased he is at the Sharks now
Cause think he is from the Cape originally.
10 Aug 2010, 15:02 pm
@swynboer(swynboer)-136:
I dont think Skeate and Bekker would make a good pairing, as they both # 5 locks
10 Aug 2010, 15:03 pm
@grant10(grant10)-139: He is a great talent Grant. I liked him at FB then when he played inside centre thought damn this kid is great there too. Now only seen him once at FH but thought he had a great game, just needs to up his kicking at posts but he will he is a good kicker.
10 Aug 2010, 15:13 pm
@Puma(Puma)-142:
The thing is that he lacks pace and size, however he has a calm natural approach to his game…….will mature into a good playmaker at 10
10 Aug 2010, 15:18 pm
@UnbeataBULL(UnbeataBULL)-100: 2003WC did nothing to Derrick Houggard, Joost and Brian Lima certainly did something, though….
10 Aug 2010, 15:19 pm
@Puma(Puma)-142:
Lambie needs to be groomed for 10 at the Boks. If JdeJ is to take over at 13 when Jaques leaves after the WC, then a Lambie/JdeJ centre combo might be a bit fragile.
10 Aug 2010, 15:21 pm
Agree with Keo’s loose forward trio and having Speis as cover. Juan and Sculk are the flankers we kiwis fear the most and your fetcher Louw is surely keeping 7 warm for Henric Brussow. In terms of individual performances against the All Blacks only, Brussow showed he is in the same class as our captain at the breakdown, and Juan and Sculk never take a backward step.
Speis has dissapointed against the All Blacks, should go with guys who are proven.
I agree with Keo’s last sentance the Springboks must play the game at pace, but im not sure about rewarding Currie Cup form, the players are already there, have done the job in the past but are injured or on the comeback now. key players like Bizmark, JPP, FDP, Brussow, are IMO incumbant players who when slottted back around the current players in the right positions…should be given there opportunity to defend Bok record against the best team.
Now im quite a patriotic man and ive never done this before (cringe) but here is the Bok team i want to see start at the next world cup. keo praises the All Blacks one minute for having a settled and experienced team who ‘know each other’ then wants fresh faces from Currie Cup. Give this mob a go next year at pace and see how they go…
15 Frans
14 JP
13 JF
12 JDV
11 Habana (like Rocco will find form again)
10 Morne
9 FDP
8 Sculk
7 Brussow
6 Juan
5 A Bekker – best ball skills for a tite forward in SA
4 Victor (c)
3 Beast (can he scrum?) not Smit
2 Bizmark
1 Stencamp – really impresive in trinations – always noticed
Reserves – You can decide that
Obviosly Bakkies and Smit would be in there if i were selecting the incumbant team i spoke of above but i feel by next year their counterparts will be playing far better rugby.
Test rugby is another level and guys should be judged on there form at this level by the national selectors more so than the grade 2 below (no offence).
10 Aug 2010, 15:21 pm
@Gonzo Journalism(Gonzo Journalism)-143: Only 19 the pace will get better with age. Size well that don’t seem to be a problem right now even when he played FB. Think he will play 10 in the future. For now though size and pace just not a worry for him he is producing the goods everyweek.
So many youngsters coming through with great talent. Lambie, Jantjies, De Jongh and Mvovo though Mvovo is almost 25. Still young though. All are Bok material.
10 Aug 2010, 15:23 pm
@David(David)-145: put f steyn at 12….problem solved.
10 Aug 2010, 15:24 pm
@David(David)-145: He will be David, He should go on the eoyt though. So far he has played well in all 3 positions. FB, 12 and 10. Remember he played FB in the S14 when the Sharks were down and out and we had to win that game. We did with a youngster that had never played S14. He was superb then and still is now. Now that is real talent.
10 Aug 2010, 15:25 pm
@grant10(grant10)-148: Agree.
10 Aug 2010, 15:30 pm
I would also love to see Willem Alberts and Duanne Vermeulen included into the squad. They are both absolutely brutal in defence and on attack. They are both extremely talented players who should be rewarded with the highest hounours.
Steggman and Deysel are are currently injured but both should be include when fit.
I also like the look of Juandre Kruger, the more I see of him the better he gets. Alistair Hargreaves has also impressed of late and has filled out substantially, he should also be utilized to give Victor a well deserved break.
Sarel Pretorius, Charl McCleod and Jano Vermark are also much better than January and I have no idea what they still have to do to impress the selectors.
I also think that a guy like, Meyer Bosman, is so versitle and talented that he could be used in almost any position in the backline except for scrumhalf.
Jaco Taute is also one for the future and should be selected a.s.a.p.
10 Aug 2010, 15:32 pm
@Puma(Puma)-147:
Yeah I agree mate, I believe in 2015 we will have a backline booming with talent
Lets just hope we can get the right coaches, administration and structures to guide them onwards and upwards
Not like our current outfit there outdated playing philosophies….so much so that I believe these youngsters
Get better coaching at CC level then they would in our national squad
10 Aug 2010, 15:34 pm
As a post WC combo, I’d like to see:
9 Hoffman
10 Lambie
12 Frans
13 de Jongh.
I’m not yet certain of the back 3.
10 Aug 2010, 15:37 pm
MOST EXPERIENCED TEAM.
15.STEFAN TERBLANCHE
14.JP PIETERSON
13.JAQUE FOURIE
12.JEAN DE VILLIERS
11.BRYAN HABANA
10.BUTCH JAMES
9.FRANCIOUS HOUGAART( DU PREEZ & RUAN INJURED…RICKY SUCKS!!)
8.PIERE SPIES
7.JUAN SMITH
6.SCHALCK BURGER
5.ANDRIES BEKKER( BAKKIES SUSPENDED AND OVER THE WALL)
4.VICTOR MATFIELD
3.BJ BOTHA
2.JOHN SMIT
1.CJ VAN DER LINDE
16.BISMARK DU PLESSIS
17.TANDAI MTWARIRA
18.STEVEN SYKES
19.RYAN KANKOWSKI
20.JANO VERMAAK
21.MORNE STEYN
22.FRANCE STEYN
THE IDEAL 30 MAN SQUAD TO TAKE US FORWARD IS:
15.FRANCE STEYN (BRILIANT ATTACKING AND GOAL KICKING)
14.GIO APPLON (PACE, POWER, DEFENCE, BIG BOOT, HE GOT IT ALL)
13.JAQUE FOURIE (SOLID, WILL NEVER LET THE TEAM DOWN)
12.JEAN DEVILIERS (NOT A WING, GREAT COMBO WITH JAQUE)
11.BRYAN HABANA (OUT OF FORM, BUT SURPRISE ELEMENT)
10.BUTCH JAMES(EXPERIENCED,ALL ROUND BETTER PLAYER THAN MORNE)
9.JANO VERMAAK( MORE MATURE SH THAN HOUGAART AT THIS STAGE)
8.RYAN KANKOWSKI( IN BETTER FORM THAN SPIES AT THE MOMENT)
7.JUAN SMITH (EXPERIECED,HARD AND GREAT LEADERSHIP)
6.SCHALCK BURGER (HE’S BACK TO THE OLD SCHALCK,NEVER SAY DIE)
5.ANDRIES BEKKER (TOWER OF A MAN, WORKS HARD ALL ROUND)
4.VICTOR MATFIELD (NEED TO REST. STILL BEST LINE OUT JUMPER)
3.BJ BOTHA (HARD WORKING PROP AND POWERFUL AT SCRUM TIME)
2.JOHN SMIT (NEED TO REST, NEED TO PROVE EVERYONE WRONG)
1.TANDAI MTWARIRA (THE BEAST!!, MAKES HIS PHYSICALITY COUNT)
16.CRAIG BURDEN ( NEED SPEED AND POWER? HE’S UR MAN)
17.JANNIE DU PLESSIS( STRONG AND RELIABLE PROP)
18.FLIP VAN DER MERWE( SOLID YOUNG PLAYER)
19.FRANCIOUS LOUW( BALL WINNER,IMPRESSED IN HIS COUPLE TESTS)
20.FRANCIOUS HOUGAART (LOOKS GOOD AT 9)
21.MORNE STEYN (GAME WINNER IN THE LAST 20 OR 30 MIN)
22.JP PIETERSON (BACK IN FORM, BRILLIANT ON ATTACK)
23.CJ VAN DER LINDE
24.TIAAN LIEBENBERG
25.DANIE ROSSOW
26.JEAN DEYSEL
27.PATRICK LAMBIE
28.WYNAND OLIVIER
29.JUAN DE JONGH
30.GERHARD VAN DEN HEEVER
10 Aug 2010, 15:37 pm
@David(David)-153: David good choice that. Excuse me being doff, who is Hoffman?
10 Aug 2010, 15:38 pm
@David(David)-153:
Wings :Shadow, Mapoe
Fulback : Not certain
10 Aug 2010, 15:40 pm
@Puma(Puma)-155:
10 Aug 2010, 15:42 pm
@Gonzo Journalism(Gonzo Journalism)-152: Agree Gonzo, Think the players are better coached at CC and S14 and that is probably where a big of the problem lay with the Boks.
Yip think we going to have some really exciting players come 2015 let us hope we have far better coaches.
10 Aug 2010, 15:45 pm
@sharks_lover(sharks_lover)-157: Howzit brudda, Was going to answer your post 154 but have to go out right now.
Will catch up later.
10 Aug 2010, 15:45 pm
Lambie’s career would be best served if the sharks allowed him to settle in one position… no matter what…
but when it’s expedient to do so, they will pick him where it suits them… and the bok coach – whoever it is – will then do the same thing…
i fear the die has already been cast…
which is a great pity…
10 Aug 2010, 15:48 pm
@Puma(Puma)-158:
Players spend a hell of a lot more time at their unions and franchises than at the Boks.
It goes without saying they will be ‘better coached’ – they have more time to be coached.
10 Aug 2010, 15:49 pm
@Puma(Puma)-155:
He’s my latest favourite WP player.
Seriously, though, he was the replacement for Duvenhage, who’s also been used as a 15 replacement. He’s a genuine and intelligent playmaker with great vision and timing. WP/Stormers are still pissing around wondering what to do with him.
10 Aug 2010, 15:49 pm
@David(David)-153:
@Gonzo Journalism(Gonzo Journalism)-156:
Wings: Aplon and Mvovo…
Full back: Fransie… (when he’s not doing duty for the Stormers
)
No 12: Bosch…
10 Aug 2010, 15:50 pm
What needs to happen (in a perfect world) is that unions and franchises need to work together with the national management team to many extents – specifically player management and conditioning.
At national level, I believe little ‘coaching’ actually needs to take place.
Over there, a collective strategy and game plan needs to be refined.
10 Aug 2010, 15:50 pm
AGREED, PLAY LAMBIE AT 10
JUST WAIT AND YOU WILL SEE THIS YOUNG MAN IS GOING TO BE ONE OF OUR BEST FLYHALVES IN THE SAME LEAGUE AS A DAN CARTER, LARKHAM, ANDREW MERTHENS, HENRY HONIBALL. JUST LET HIM GROW INTO THIS ONE POSITION. BRILIANT YOUNG TALENT!!!
10 Aug 2010, 15:52 pm
sharks backline super 15
15 ludick
14 jpp
13 mapoe
12 lambie
11 mvovo
10 potgieter
09 mcleod
reserve backs
cockott
swannie/meyer bosman
adi
backup ndugane, stefan, vulindlu, strauss,
10 Aug 2010, 15:52 pm
@Sharkie10(Sharkie10)-154:
I’ve still to see Frans attacking brilliance from 15. He just seems to want to run into the opposition players as quickly as possible.
10 Aug 2010, 15:53 pm
@grant10(grant10)-148: Please, put Frans Steyn at 15 unless you want to play crashball the whole blooming time.
I can’t believe you want him at 12 when you have excellent distributors like Lambie et al. I even believe that you made mention of the special skills of Paul Bosch. Tim Whitehead is another great prospect at 12 from your valley.
The problem with our rugby is that we are a defense first nation. To hell with fly halves and centres who can distribute and put players into space – if they can’t tackle, they are not good enough.
This means that Naas Botha, Joel Stransky, Michael Du Plessis, Danie Gerber, etc would never make your teams. They were not the deadliest tacklers in the game, but the way the dictated play and read the game meant that they did not have to be.
Geez, we still have a long way to go in this country
10 Aug 2010, 15:57 pm
@ufo(ufo)-160:
The ghost’s of
Ruan Pienaar
Frans Steyn
Brent Russell
……..
10 Aug 2010, 15:58 pm
Anycase I am out, ciao
10 Aug 2010, 16:00 pm
With regard to modern day attack
I do believe that the modern day backline play is not in engaged in the same attacking frame were in the old days all the wing had to do was have enough pace to burn the other wing,
with defenses structures these days its almost like you have to have a backline full of # 12’s where each attacker has to break through an array of defenders and cover defenders and be able to offload
10 Aug 2010, 16:03 pm
thing is… we’re all just as guilty as the coaches…
we have our favourites and select them in ‘our’ teams because they are our favourites… we make room for them… even out of position if need be… just to have them in our team… even if it means leaving a better-suited player out of the team…
of course playing our favourites is more important to us… because we all know better…
sound familiar guys…?
yip… we are all guilty of it…
yet we cut the coaches no slack at all…
hmmmm… pot/kettle…
10 Aug 2010, 16:33 pm
@ufo(ufo)-172:
Yeah, the only difference is we don’t get paid to do it.
10 Aug 2010, 16:35 pm
@Great White Shark(Predawn)-80:
That “stukkie” as you put it is a world class lady, and Habana is much better for marrying Janine.
10 Aug 2010, 16:40 pm
We’re going to hurt them Ausies when they come over!
And the All Blacks need to be brought back to earth, and we need to stop that unbeaten record of theirs…..which is sitting pretty at 15 if i’m right!
10 Aug 2010, 16:42 pm
@logie_Jumpbuck(logie_Jumpbuck)-175:
No, I think it’s closer to 12.
10 Aug 2010, 16:44 pm
@David(David)-173:
and therein lies the rub…!!
10 Aug 2010, 16:45 pm
@ufo(ufo)-172: Aint that the truth mate!!
10 Aug 2010, 16:47 pm
some news
Plod missed a heavy training session today….was walking the sidelines….not sure if injured.
10 Aug 2010, 16:49 pm
@David(David)-176: still, that’s only 5 away from the world record held by mallet and hart’s teams. if we don’t stop them, who will? france?
10 Aug 2010, 16:50 pm
@grant10(grant10)-179: Howzit Grant, hope you are well…
Jeez bud, I am away for two weeks, I come back here and see that you are STILL on about Smit?
How’s the medication supplies because he aint going anywhere soon
10 Aug 2010, 16:50 pm
@grant10(grant10)-179: i don’t know what is worse, playing js out of form or bismark straight back from injury and getting him injured in the process with chillie as back-up.
10 Aug 2010, 16:54 pm
@grant10(grant10)-179: I think he just told Pdv that he is not interested in the physical stuff and that he’ll walk on the pitch during the game if he wants to. He is training, just his brand of it.
10 Aug 2010, 16:54 pm
@stormersboy(stormersboy)-178:
well… one version of it anyway…
10 Aug 2010, 16:55 pm
@willievz(willievz)-181: taking double doses my man…..
Prozac seems to be the cure…..mixed with a bit of Windhoek Lager….makes the pain go away.
Welcome back by the way…
10 Aug 2010, 16:56 pm
@logie_Jumpbuck(logie_Jumpbuck)-182: start with Chilli….
He will do a better job than plod
10 Aug 2010, 16:56 pm
@rossoneri(rossoneri)-183: ja
check superrugby site….
hectic physical session…
But dont worry….apparently Plods aura was training…
10 Aug 2010, 16:57 pm
@logie_Jumpbuck(logie_Jumpbuck)-182: It’s not even up for discussion. John will be playing on 21 August 2010 no question. No one has the guts to drop him.
10 Aug 2010, 16:57 pm
@logie_Jumpbuck(logie_Jumpbuck)-182: dont play Bissy yet….or F Steyn….
Let the veterans who got us in the kak get us out…..
10 Aug 2010, 16:58 pm
@grant10(grant10)-187: That’s what I mean. His aura and leadership was training hard!
10 Aug 2010, 16:58 pm
@rossoneri(rossoneri)-188: PLODS JUST LUCKY I AM NOT IN CHARGE.
hE WOULD BE WASHING HIS CAR ON THE 21 ST aUGUST.
10 Aug 2010, 16:59 pm
@rossoneri(rossoneri)-190: ja
the fittest aura in the universe.
Just a pity someone forgot to inform the aussies and kiwis.
10 Aug 2010, 17:00 pm
@grant10(grant10)-191:
10 Aug 2010, 17:00 pm
Good article, Keo (besides your assessment of “sparkling” Hargreaves). The root of the problem in SA rugby is Div the clown & his Three Stooges management crew. They bumble along from game to game with abysmal selections, no gameplan & no clue. EOYT last year was the start of the nosedive. And they stick with the same old tired squad – with a fringe group of no-hopers who are always mysteriously in contention for selection – Ricky, Hargreaves, Maku, Meisiekind, Heini Adams, Earl Rose, Chiliboy, etc. Currie Cup form totally ignored.
But the irritating thing as that Div & co never take responsibility for their screw-ups – it’s always the ref, the citing committee, the All Black conspiracy to sell World Cup tickets, etc. We may as well face the fact that the World Cup is toast for us. We have an embarrassment of rugby riches but no hope of success because of the gang of buffoons who run the show. Best we can hope for is someone like H. Meyer to inject some sanity after 2011 – but of course, by that time we’ll be in a rebuilding phase & probably screwed anyway – what a waste!
10 Aug 2010, 17:02 pm
is it possible to censor grants rants if plod, smit, captain fantastic are mentioned cos we all know what he’s going to regurgitate over and over
10 Aug 2010, 17:03 pm
@grant10(grant10)-192: They forgot that they are supposed to fear him! His aura muscles are build rocks. WHY DON’T THEY FEAR HIM!
10 Aug 2010, 17:04 pm
@grant10(grant10)-187: lololololololol that was very funny!
10 Aug 2010, 17:05 pm
@Papoose(papaown)-195: no….its not….so get over yourself…..
10 Aug 2010, 17:06 pm
@rossoneri(rossoneri)-196: they dont fear hiom because he cant catch them….
Klaar…
Now papoosy is going to wet his pants so i better leave it here
10 Aug 2010, 17:08 pm
@grant10(grant10)-199: Hahahahahahahahahahahahahaha. Bye Grant. Have a great afternoon.
10 Aug 2010, 17:11 pm
@stormersboy(stormersboy)-197: LOL
10 Aug 2010, 17:12 pm
@rossoneri(rossoneri)-200: cheers
10 Aug 2010, 17:12 pm
now that g10 and rossi have started their mutual masturbation session, can the rest of us get on with talking rugby?
10 Aug 2010, 17:20 pm
Guys selectors should watch for future:
Props: Coenie Oosthuizen, WP. Nel, Brok Harris, Wicus Blaauw and Werner Kruger.
Hookers: Gary Botha (I know he’s made it before), Tiaan Liebenberg, Deon Fourie, Craig Burden and Adriaan Strauss.
Locks: Anton van Zyl, Juandre Kruger, Adriaan Fondse, George Earle (He has been brilliant), Ross Skeate and Frikkie Spies.
Flanks: Pieter Louw, Keegan Daniel, Deon Steggmann, Derick Kuun (also as hooker) and Derrick Minnie.
8thmen: Duane Vermeulen, Warren Whitely, Willem Alberts and Jan-Gerrit van Velze.
Scrumhalves: !!!SAREL PRETORIOUS!!! , Jano Vermaak, Tewis de Bruyn, Rory Kockott, Charl McLeod and Michael Bondesio.
Fly-halves: Jaques-Louis Potgieter, Willem de Waal, Naas Olivier and Elton Jantjies (For the DISTANT future)
Wings: !!!GERHARD VAN DEN HEEVER!!!, Bjorn Basson and Michael Killian.
Centeres: Paul Bosch, Stefan Watermeyer, Doppies La Grange and Barry Geel.
Fullbacks: !!!RIAAN VILJOEN!!!, Jaco Taute, Louis Ludik and Hennie Daniller
10 Aug 2010, 17:27 pm
@grant10(grant10)-187: another G10 classic!!!!
hahahahahaha
10 Aug 2010, 17:27 pm
Lambie and burden? getting way ahead of ourselves
But u quite like the keo loosetrio
if Bismarck and stem and hougaard plays there’s already a difference
if ref pings mccaw as he should, then we see how good these self proclaimed world beaters are
10 Aug 2010, 17:27 pm
@charo(charo)-203: do you eat with that filthy mouth…..
bloody old goat…
10 Aug 2010, 17:29 pm
@ufo(ufo)-172:
We don’t have any pressure on us to be politically correct in our “selections”, so some actually get it right.
10 Aug 2010, 17:38 pm
Must say looks like sharks assembling some great depth in their backline fir next year, I assume pienaar is leaving for ireland with all the flyhalves they buying with JL and now Bosman.
9. Kockett
10. JL
11. Mapoe
12. Bosman
13. Mlovu
14. JP
15. Terreblanche
Jacobs, lambie, swanepoel
If they can hang onto pienaar could be their year next year but would be nice to see mostert partnering sykes – need to power up at lock
10 Aug 2010, 17:51 pm
@cab(cab)-209:
Pienaar has already been released to Ulster, but I agree about their backline depth.
10 Aug 2010, 17:55 pm
@grant10(grant10)-202: I see Juan Smith and Kanko also did not partake in training. It is absolutely clear to me what is happening here and I hope I am wrong, but it seems like we are looking at Juan Smith as our supposed saviour- desperate times these, and desperate men do desperate things.
Let me start by saying I have the greatest admiration and appreciation for the abilities of a fit Juan Smith and would pick him without a question if he is fit, healthy and on form.
But that is just it.
He is not fit, healthy or in form. How do I know it?
Apparently he underwent a scan and some tests yesterday and was passed fit to play. Bullshit, I say. If he was fit, after a protracted layoff and knowing Juan’s get-up and go attitude, and given the current perceived Bok predicament, he would have been right up there out in front training. But that’s just corroboration of what I have seen on the field in the CC so far. While everyone was jumping on the bandwagon clamouring for his Bok call-up, I have been a lone voice cautioning against rushing him back.
It is/was/and will be blatantly obviously if he is submitted to a strenous physical routine with full contact with Plod’s famous GPS on, that he is seriously below par. I could see it with the naked eye, and the stats on Verusco have borne it out. And then there is the concussion. It is wishful thinking that a guy with a history of almost chronic concussion will recover fully in a week from a solid tonk to the noggin like the one he took. And all of this has dented his confidence. He is nowhere near taking full contact either. He is almost falling before making contact to make sure he falls correctly so as not to injure himself further. And we want to unleash the AB’s on him.
But carry on, I’m just a biased prick with an unhealthy appreciation of my favourite flankers (Potties) virtues. That’s why I’m doing it. That version is so much more palatable than the truth to a rugby public baying for a test win. It is not because I almost buried my son due to playing with concussion. It can never be anything as removed as that. Well I’ll be no part of it. Carry on.
I could still have understood if we still had a shot at retaining the Trinations, or if Potties wasn’t in the form of his life having been nominated CC 7 of the week by Rugby365. But **** if it is Potties that is the problem, pick someone else like Alberts or Vermeulen who are both fitter and stronger than Juan at the moment and can play there. Hell, play Spies or Kanko at 7 if you must. I don’t give a ****! Just stop this f**kin madness boys. It is a man’s life we are playing with- a son’s father or a daughter’s dad, I don’t know, but for God’s sake, have some sense!
10 Aug 2010, 18:26 pm
@catleya(catleya)-211:
10 Aug 2010, 18:35 pm
@Agile T*t-Tyrant(Anairetes agilis)-212: Is that smiley genuine or veiled sarcasm?
10 Aug 2010, 18:35 pm
@catleya(catleya)-211: Good post – too soon for Juan and nothing wrong with Slangkos…
10 Aug 2010, 18:43 pm
@catleya(catleya)-213:
What’s the difference between genuine sarcasm and veiled sarcasm
10 Aug 2010, 18:51 pm
@Agile T*t-Tyrant(Anairetes agilis)-215: I said nothing about genuine sarcasm. I meant a genuine smile, so I guess you should take it as your answer.
10 Aug 2010, 18:58 pm
Was Smith diagnosed with concussion?
Medically he is forced to sit out for a couple of weeks so I doubt it.
10 Aug 2010, 19:03 pm
@PissAnt(PissAnt)-217:
Mind you I think it is two or 4 weeks compulsory, and given he has missed one game already and the Boks game is only on the 21st he seems covered.
10 Aug 2010, 19:04 pm
@catleya(catleya)-211: agree mate…..no reason to play Juan….in fact it borders on criminal.
Same as F Steyn…..the okes been on bloody holiday!!
Madness….but then its what i have become accustomed to expect with the 3 stooges
10 Aug 2010, 19:06 pm
David 210
oh right, strange move, he’s obviously not interested in rwc2011 but yeah sharks looking good
thought juan had been playing currie cup but can’t play him if he’s had no match fitness – otherwise play potgieter, louw and burger.
Hopefully Bismarck gets dome game time this wend and is ready for abs.
10 Aug 2010, 19:08 pm
@grant10(grant10)-219:
I have it on good authority that Frans Steyn with his agent actually acted like a bunch of ***** which is why he was not considered following the Wales test which was just a PR exercise given the bad publicity that preceeded it and that his current inclusion is to see whether he has had a change of heart.
10 Aug 2010, 19:10 pm
@Heavens Game(Heavens Game)-214: It is about now I have to make the call to resign from Keo. I don’t know whether I have it in me not to come back and say I told you so after what’s coming next. Sorry guys, it’s been great but I’m done!
10 Aug 2010, 19:17 pm
@PissAnt(PissAnt)-221: ja…its obvious that there is no love lost between him and PDV.
F Steyn should leave it rather….stay in Paris.
Regime change quarter final of WC 2011….be can play then….hopefully under a decent management structure.
10 Aug 2010, 19:17 pm
@catleya(catleya)-222:
I know I have not been online much…
What did I miss…???
10 Aug 2010, 19:18 pm
@catleya(catleya)-222: no bud…..we need the decent okes here….seriously….i am as frustrated as you are with the Circus…..but i promise you change will come….
10 Aug 2010, 19:19 pm
@grant10(grant10)-223:
And not 12 months ago he praised PDV publicly…
10 Aug 2010, 19:22 pm
@catleya(catleya)-216:
I was just pulling your leg man—————->
10 Aug 2010, 19:24 pm
Anycase, I am out, evening all.
10 Aug 2010, 19:25 pm
@PissAnt(PissAnt)-226: ja….strange and sad…
I reckon F Steyn wants to play at 12…
10 Aug 2010, 19:25 pm
@PissAnt(PissAnt)-228: cheers
10 Aug 2010, 19:26 pm
Before I go, word is Fourie du Preez also joined the squad today – no doubt just to add some support as he is definitely out for 2010.
10 Aug 2010, 19:26 pm
Oh and lighten the **** up dudes, Bok rugby will be back!
Ciao
10 Aug 2010, 19:28 pm
@PissAnt(PissAnt)-232: ja
2012 not far off…
10 Aug 2010, 19:28 pm
@PissAnt(PissAnt)-232:
10 Aug 2010, 19:30 pm
@grant10(grant10)-233:
Haha, funny man.
Boks will end in the top 3 in the RWC next year (and that means they might actually win it…)
10 Aug 2010, 19:31 pm
@grant10(grant10)-233:
BTW lets meet for a beer in the supporters tent this Saturday prior to the Bulls game – will catch you later on to organise if you are keen.
10 Aug 2010, 19:32 pm
@PissAnt(PissAnt)-235: no bud….
quarters its home time…..
Ireland will beat us….too much old legs…..seriously….i love the boks….but its all over rover…too many structural weaknesses….and a lack of decisive and innovative Management.
10 Aug 2010, 19:33 pm
@grant10(grant10)-229: He’s a better 12. Would open up some lekker space for his 13, and scare the fk out of Nonu like before.
He’s a carthorse at 15. Lest we forget, the AB’s & Aussies don’t kick it down a fullback’s throat.
10 Aug 2010, 19:33 pm
@PissAnt(PissAnt)-236: sounds cool but will have to see what the business okes have lined up…..thanks
10 Aug 2010, 19:34 pm
@SodaJoe(SodaJoe)-238: i would play him at 12 Soda….
10 Aug 2010, 19:34 pm
@grant10(grant10)-237:
Heard the same **** in 2006, no worries.
Let me know on Saturday, I will be at the game.
10 Aug 2010, 19:34 pm
@PissAnt(PissAnt)-224: me
10 Aug 2010, 19:35 pm
@grant10(grant10)-237: Bud you would depress yourself in a room full of horny blondes with lots of cold beer.
10 Aug 2010, 19:36 pm
@grant10(grant10)-240: Aye.
10 Aug 2010, 19:36 pm
@SodaJoe(SodaJoe)-243: not if my pharmacist was there!!
10 Aug 2010, 19:37 pm
@PissAnt(PissAnt)-241: cool
10 Aug 2010, 19:38 pm
Ok what am I missing with Joe Pietersen. Fast, Can kick a mile – on and off the ground. Can tackle, can catch and field the high ball. Can play wing. Seems similar in size to Mils and some maturity will fill him out.
And no other decent fullbacks.
Maybe we have enough blonde okes in the team with Schalk, Meisiekind, Potgieter?
10 Aug 2010, 19:40 pm
@SodaJoe(SodaJoe)-247:
Yeah it is a ***** for the citing commissioner to differentiate between all the blondes so we have a quota on them, SANZAR enforced!
(Plus he is in France already)
10 Aug 2010, 19:41 pm
@SodaJoe(SodaJoe)-247: Aplon?
10 Aug 2010, 19:45 pm
@PissAnt(PissAnt)-248: Is he? Wow who’s left? And who left?
10 Aug 2010, 19:46 pm
@Heavens Game(Heavens Game)-249: Good wing. I would have him start at 14 before JPP.
10 Aug 2010, 19:51 pm
@SodaJoe(SodaJoe)-251: He is better 15 than Pietersen as per this years S14.
JPP is still the man – he is performing well for the Sharks at the moment.
In fact I wouldn’t mind a back 3 of 11 Habana 14 JPP 15 Aplon
10 Aug 2010, 20:16 pm
You must be JOKING man!
>> Sharks hooker Craig Burden is another who is excelling. Burden, converted from wing to hooker three years ago, is the form hooker in South Africa and his athleticism among hookers in this country is unmatched.
Others who have sparkled in recent weeks include Sharks lock Alastair Hargreaves, WP No 8 Duane Vermeulen and Bulls wing Gerhard van den Heever.
>>
What the FFFFF about Tian Liebenberg and Deon Fourie??? Deon Fourie has been playing his head off for the last year and no-one seems to be taking any notice. Ok Burden is playing well but what about the above?
Alistair Hargreaves – perhaps but so far I havent seen him doing anything spectacular.
ANTON VAN ZYL ring a friggin bell??? Now there is someone who plays well week in and out for gods sake.
Gerhard van den Heever??????=???????????????????????????????
I guess Lwazi Mvovo has just sucked then? Mvovo is FAR and I repeat FAR more impressive than van den Heever. Ive yet to see some real magic from van den Heever. Running fast and being able to catch the last pass as you jog over the tryline one would expect as the very basics a wing need.
Jeesh – does anyone have a head on their shoulders around here?
FFS i repeat FFS!!
10 Aug 2010, 22:00 pm
Fracois Hougaard is not ready to be the General of No.9 play yet for the boks. It would be another story if he had A good solid season of S14 behind his back. Please Sa why would you want a Matt Burgess when you can play a Will Gineau. My tip use the province no9 Dewald Duvenhager.
10 Aug 2010, 22:02 pm
Patrick Lambie should be on the the bench nio questions asked. The boks should really mix it up. We need the depth for next year.
10 Aug 2010, 22:05 pm
This is the last great no-risk window of opportunity before the RWC to test new talent. The 3N is already a lost campaign. The remaining tests are as meaningless as any test ever can be.
The Grand Slam opportunity is no place to fool about as it is a once a career chance for all the players and a chance for the coaches to earn redemption after 2009′s ridiculous failure of an EOYT. Next year’s 3N will be a momentum-building RWC run-up and then there’s the RWC itself — one slip-up and you’re history.
So, now’s the chance.
10 Aug 2010, 22:06 pm
…..and we all know what the Aussies did to us on our away leg. We should never be caught so off guard again to them. We got the ammunition to bury them let’s just use it.
10 Aug 2010, 22:07 pm
@Wezwp(Wezwp)-254:
I’d prefer Hoffman, but agree about Hougaard as you may have seen in my previous posts.
As for Lambie, let him settle at 10 in the CC and then include him on the EOYT.
10 Aug 2010, 22:08 pm
I get what you saying tackler we should keep our men fit. But just because of rustiness we cant just bury them in conton wool. They need to be managed correctly.
10 Aug 2010, 22:09 pm
@TheTackler(TheTackler)-256:
Rubbish. The Grand Slam is fools gold and a mythical and artificial distraction at the end of a long season.
10 Aug 2010, 22:12 pm
“Managed correctly” really means NOT playing them unless they are absolutely indispensable. Especially now that there’s no silverware at stake any more.
10 Aug 2010, 22:13 pm
@David(David)-260: Any grand slam is a once-a-career opportunity.
10 Aug 2010, 22:16 pm
@TheTackler(TheTackler)-256: Now what is it exactly.
Either one should win all your tests or one should experiment as these tests now have no meaning.
10 Aug 2010, 22:18 pm
Come on Tackler let’s get some psychological advantage before the world cup. The next tri nations or possibly at the eoyt is when we rest them.
10 Aug 2010, 22:22 pm
Still loads of rugby before 2011 RWC, loads
10 Aug 2010, 22:22 pm
@TheTackler(TheTackler)-262:
It might be, but it’s an anachronism based on greed, in the modern era. We’ve already missed winning one under Jake, so it’s not quite that unique for the senior players. I realise the ABs see it as important when it’s organised, but the NH teams don’t treat their EOYT with the same respect or priority.
10 Aug 2010, 22:24 pm
I do not think any team at the moment has depth, 15 quality players but that is it
We have seen an injured Australia lose against England
An injured French team lose against SA
An injured SA team lose against Aus and KIwi
An Injured Kiwi team in 2009 losing 3 times against SA
10 Aug 2010, 22:29 pm
@JL1(JL1)-267:
The difference between us and the ABs, I think, is that they’re developing genuine depth, whilst we’re just exploring it.
10 Aug 2010, 22:38 pm
@David(David)-268: I do not think so
Everytime we all lose players to injury and to other countries we all battle to fill the gaps
Current AB team has over 700 caps and are also a Dads Army like SA
10 Aug 2010, 22:53 pm
@JL1(JL1)-269:
OK, but look at their depth in the backs. McCallister, Cruden, Kahui, Toeava, Dagg, Sivivatu, Ranger. These guys have already played for the ABs and proved themselves.
10 Aug 2010, 23:19 pm
@Wezwp(Wezwp)-264: The 2009 shambles of an EOYT was exactly what lost the Boks all their 3N momentum — and the slide to perdition has simply continued. Another EOYT fiasco in 2010 — following directly on the utter mess of their 3N campaign — would turn their loss of momentum into a full-blown crash-and-burn nosedive. Impact with the ground will be in the pool play stage of RWC2011 in NZ.
And, all the while, the ABs are building rather nicely, aren’t they?
11 Aug 2010, 00:00 am
“The Boks need fresh new faces”
Interesting,,
Read: “The Boks need fresh new *******’ faces”
The Boks’ current players reservoir is good enough to beat anyone on this planet with another full Test team at ready, the root cause is the quota system that rewarded PdV, Januarie, the Beast and other free loaders with a windfall for having drak skins
11 Aug 2010, 00:04 am
@TheTackler(TheTackler)-271: There is no connection whatsoever between the 2009 EOYT and the 2010 Tri-Nations – apart from the fact that the three stooges oversaw both fiascos. The 2009 EOYT was completely forgotten thanks to the resounding success enjoyed by many of the same players in the 2010 Super 14. The truly amazing thing is that the three stooges couldn’t put together a decent team from the two best teams of the Super 14: the Bulls and the Stormers. That takes real talent.
You are right about one thing though: NOW is the time to experiment. But the three stooges have absolutely no idea.
11 Aug 2010, 00:10 am
@kaksioek(kaksioek)-273:
“There is no connection whatsoever between the 2009 EOYT and the 2010 Tri-Nations”
Interesting, please explain that bold statement
11 Aug 2010, 00:21 am
At currie Cup and S14 levels, the SA coaches dont have to put up with opposing players that are trained to run obstruction. Big difference.
It was so refreshing watching the ITM cup last weeknd, and seeing kiwi players NOT falling over the ruck, going off their feet and running obstruction. They can actualy play a half decent game without having to cheat. They should try sometime.
11 Aug 2010, 00:22 am
@kaksioek(kaksioek)-273: the three stooges couldn’t put together a decent team from the two best teams of the Super 14: the Bulls and the Stormers. That takes real talent.
Classic.
Says it all.
11 Aug 2010, 00:42 am
@Hondo(Hondo)-272: Nothing wrong with Beast. There is no real quota system here otherwise Lwazi Mvovo and Lionel Mapoe would be playing. Its all just div favouritism now stop flogging that dead horse
11 Aug 2010, 01:24 am
with all the BS & the need to “proclaim” future talents on this site,the following are going to be the next Pienaar,F.Steyn,Spies etc-All hype,little results
Lambie
Hoffman
Koster
L.Cronje
The following will be successes due to ACTUAL results,mental toughness,BMT:
Mapoe
De Jongh
F.Hougaard
Flo
11 Aug 2010, 01:26 am
@mshiniwami(mshiniwami)-278: You forget Mvovo mate and Lambie will be there. Dont be dumb.
11 Aug 2010, 01:34 am
David
Hardly would class “proven” with likes of Cruden,Dagg,Toeava,Ranger.They are no different to Aplon,Hougaard,De Jongh,Basson.
Sivivatu & Kahui,yes but will Kahui ever finish a season??has been injured/MAJOR ones each of last 3 seasons.Has been best thing to hit SH rugby at centre for last 4/5yrs without showing ANYTHING.Instead Conrad Smith has continually overshadowed&proved his value.Sivi will not make starting lineup.
11 Aug 2010, 01:46 am
Slumtown
Mvovo is talented & my view on him has changed but still reserve my judgement on Bok status.likes of Habana,JP,Basson,Hougaard,Mapoe,Aplon-I would all rank above him at this point.Mjekevu will also be in the conversation in months to come but Mvovo would be ahead of him right now.
Lambie has played 1 game at 10 & 2 games at 12 now people are proclaiming him the next Bok saviour? All too premature for me thank you.He has shown his best form at 15 & is an option there in future.But needs to develop further at provincial & Superrugby.Believe he us more suited to 10 role due to his calmness & playmaking ability(the little shown
so far).At 15 he is safe but lacks pace to be a threat on attack enough,at 12 his size as well as he isn’t nippy enough(ala Gits) taking into consideration-size.
He will be a fine 10 with time,can do a solid job at 15.
Relax with the proclaimation of intelligence bud,its a blog.
11 Aug 2010, 02:33 am
@kaksioek(kaksioek)-273: The S14 is a second-tier competition. Test rugby — even tests against the UK nations — is a large step up. A very good S14 player can often fade into obscurity at this higher level — WO, Gaffie, Bekker, Wendell Sailor, Stephen Donald…
11 Aug 2010, 02:47 am
tackler
Can hardly put Bekker into that category
But u can ADD Toeava,Thompson,Ross,Tu’ali’i,Flavell etc
11 Aug 2010, 03:13 am
Bekker’s test performances have been decidedly mediocre so far.
11 Aug 2010, 04:56 am
@TheTackler(TheTackler)-282:
Spies…
11 Aug 2010, 05:55 am
256. TheTackler(TheTackler) yes thank-you. Nothing to loose play the laaitjies and f u ck the old boys club.
Lambie, SPretorius, Alberts, Mvovo, De Jongh, Hougaard, Mapoe
Liebenberg,
11 Aug 2010, 07:20 am
@Agile T*t-Tyrant(Anairetes agilis)-174:
That’s a matter of opinion ma’am.
I assume you are a lady going on the tone of your email…
11 Aug 2010, 07:34 am
@Great White Shark(Predawn)-287:
No, I’m just a gentleman around the ladies. Need some tips?
11 Aug 2010, 07:41 am
@Agile T*t-Tyrant(Anairetes agilis)-288:
That’s another matter of opinion…
11 Aug 2010, 07:51 am
I love the way you guys have been harping on about franz steyn and he has been injured for 2 months!! why didnt anyone mentioned that 3-5 weeks ago!! crictizing P Div on something that he couldnt change!! journalists just trying to get attention, and now you saying chuck in new faces, and if he loses, bang, fire him!!! anyways i hope JZ gets his way so we can muzzle the whole lot of you journalists looking for attention!! oh and P div vindicated, all i heard was conspiracy theory this and that wha wha wha wha wha! then he gets cleared and after having read the exact words its doesnt sound so bad, wow you guys need to check your ethics cause the images you are portraying reak of other agendas!!
11 Aug 2010, 07:54 am
I’m surprised keo has a column in Business Day. Like the Boks, he’s running on reputation. Barring one or two off form or tired players, these are the same guys who whipped the same Oz and NZ players in TN 2009 and the S14. So what’s changed?
1. I reckon the tactics, player conditoning, skilling & rotation have been very poor. No new players have been introduced with any consistency.
2. The referee’s “interpretation” of the rules is vastly different.
3. SA admin and match officials are hopeless. The disciplinary and citing system is inconsistent and has been manipulated to cripple and disrupt the Boks and our admin is powerless against the cunning of Paddy O’ Brain and his cohorts. My latest example is Woodcock against Oz. Penalty, no yeallow or citing. Botha was cited and banned for just the same.
There is no sign of change on any of these points. Simply feeding new players into the mincer won’t change the result. So don’t take Bok rugby too seriously. Watch the game with a few beers and have a giggle; or turn off.
11 Aug 2010, 08:41 am
@Slumtown(Slumtown)-253: Good post Slummies.
11 Aug 2010, 08:48 am
The bbc guy’s are offline think i’ll spend my KEO$’S here. Did you guy’s ever consider that the all black’s are just to good for us. Sometimes people don’t get that it’s a team game.
11 Aug 2010, 08:52 am
@mshiniwami(mshiniwami)-278:
Hey !
wasnt I peddling that same tune recently and you were admonishing me for it ?
Not sure about F.Louw tho.
11 Aug 2010, 08:58 am
It always interests me how the player debate hots up when the Springboks are struggling. I remember the supersport messageboard, and then sarugby how worked up everyone used to get about the inclusion/exclusion of Luke Watson vs. Schalk Burger, Ettiene Botha vs. Jean De Villiers, Adi Jacobs vs. Jacque Fourie….
In my capacity as Sharks & Boks supporter, I dont think Mvovo, Lambie, Burden or Hargreaves should be included, nor do I think Liebenberg, Fourie, Aplon or Van Zyl should be included – I think we need to find the route back to what worked for us less than a year ago !
The answer, I believe is this;
15 – F. Steyn, 14 – Pietersen, 13 – J. Fourie, 12 – De Villiers, 11 – Habana, 10 – M. Steyn, 9 – F. Du Preez, 8 – P. Spies, 7 – J. Smith, 6. H. Brussouw, 5 – Matfield, 4 – Botha, 3 – ?, 2 – Du Plessis, 1 – ?
The reason I mark 3 and 1 as ? is I believe there are many in form props available currently, and this is probably the point that deserves the most discussion.
To get into a silly, provincially biased (very in some cases) little argument here isn’t going to do any good – and is a waste of time. The team above is in my opinion still the best we have. De Villiers has departed from that formula (in his defense, Du Plessis, Du Preez and Brussouw all injured) and hence he is seeing his backside.
And mshiniwami – are you praying for Lambie’s disappearance, or is that your honest opinion ? I know you dont appreciate the Sharks much and so that may be your wish rather than your belief, however I have bad news for you.
Lambie has been around for a while. He was a star at U19 level, then at U21 level, and played brilliantly for the baby Boks. The Springboks have had other players like this – John Smit and Jean De Villiers come to mind. His kicking percentages are around mid 80 % – and is currently South Africa’s next best option at 10 next to Morne Steyn.
If I were the Sharks, I would offer him a 4 Million a year contract right now to try and keep him there as long as possible, because out of the whole team – he is the biggest threat to any Sharks opposition currently. He is a genuine Natal boy – and his daddy’s house is wall papered with Sharks regalia – so, not much chance of him leaving due to loyalty issues.
So – if I were a WP, Bulls or Cheetahs supporter I would probably also be hoping that Lambie is just a flash in the pan.
11 Aug 2010, 09:35 am
@KevinRack(KevinRack)-286: Nothing to loose play? Actually, loose play is a very skilled part of the game.
(You’re not dumb enough to have meant “nothing to LOSE” — with one O — are you?)
11 Aug 2010, 09:41 am
@husky(husky)-291: “My latest example is Woodcock against Oz. Penalty, no yeallow(sic) or citing. Botha was cited and banned for just the same.”
You DO know, of course, that the ref in question was a South African? And that the citing commissioner was a South African too?
11 Aug 2010, 09:46 am
@Dusky(Dusky)-295:
Bakkies suspended. Bekker injured, Juan on leave, JPP was injured, and Frans and JdeV off the pace. I doubt whether anyone would disagree with your team, the problem has been finding replacements until they’re all match fit again.
11 Aug 2010, 10:04 am
@Dusky(Dusky)-295: for what it’s worth, Mshiniwami is one of the few knowledgeable & fair SHARKS supporters! Provincialism is the last thing i would attribute to his posts on this blog.
11 Aug 2010, 10:15 am
@Dusky(Dusky)-295:
For the record,I am a Sharks fan have been my whole life.Born & raised in KZN.So dont play the provincialism card on me mate.
But I have also been through the ups & downs as a supporter of the Sharks.Have seen all this before thus making me all too aprehensive.Before Lambie,it was the “mercurial” talents of Pienaar,Frans Steyn,Brent Russell etc set to light the world alight & send Sharks rugby & Bok rugby into the promise land.And all we have to show for it is ONE Currie Cup & a host of disgruntled fat lipped/no BMT players with no mental toughness and little results wise.
So excuse me for being apprehensive at annointing Lambie & the like the next best thing since sliced bread.
Let em play a couple of season first at a high consistent level,then we can start speaking in hyperboles.
11 Aug 2010, 10:19 am
@Dusky(Dusky)-295:
And I dont give a sh*t whether he has Sharks regalia all over his wall etc,showing results on the field is what matters
And I have been watching Pat Lambie since his Std9 at Michealhouse.I have relatives that went to school during his era & played alongside him at age group level.
11 Aug 2010, 10:26 am
@mshiniwami(mshiniwami)-300: Good post. I also would love for Lambie to be the next big thing as it would greatly benefit SA rugby, but like the much vaunted Gerhard Van der Heever I think we need to let these guys settle and prove themselves over a couple of seasons.
11 Aug 2010, 10:52 am
I always like to read the “team of the week” type of articles that Rugby365 post. The latest one is a “best of the rest” type of team, those players not selected in PDV’s current squad, but showing great CC form:
“The old saying that ‘if you good enough, you’re old enough’ still holds water if James O’Connor and Israel Dagg are anything to go by.
For that reason, we – at rugby365.com – present our Uncapped (Bok) XV:
Starting from the back, Hennie Daniller has been as trusty as any South Africa fullback as the last line of defence this season and the strength of his left boot helps him to pip Louis Ludik – who has just returned to action – for the No.15 jersey.
The wings select themselves – both ‘The Shadow’, Gerhard van den Heever, and Lwazi Mvovo have been struck with a try-scoring disease this season. Michael Killian is unlucky to miss out, but our pair just have that extra ability to create something from nothing.
Jaco Taute reverts to outside centre, where he played for the ‘Baby Boks’, and links up with fellow SA Under-20 star Pat Lambie in the midfield. The versatile 19-year-old Shark will play alongside Jacques-Louis Potgieter in next year’s Super 15, which is why we decided that Lambie should be the one to shift across to inside centre, where – of course – he has played this year, too.
South African rugby’s cup overfloweth with scrumhalf talent currently and the man from Kimberley who always punches above his weight, Sarel Pretorius, has the edge over the Lions’ nuggety No.9, Jano Vermaak, who could – and should – also win a Bok blazer in the future.
Duane Vermeulen, at No.8, is a man amongst men and isn’t adverse to the physical stuff. Jacques Botes and Deon Stegmann offer two fetchers capable of playing a tight game when it’s called for, while Willem Alberts deserves an honourable mention. The loose trio form a tough unit who wouldn’t be afraid to bleed for the cause.
Leader of the unbeaten Western Province side and the new line-out king in SA, Anton van Zyl, is our skipper. Mr. Reliable Steven Sykes is his second row partner. (Although Sykes was named on the bench for the third Lions Test last year, he was not called onto the field and is therefore still eligible for our team.)
Coenie Oosthuizen and Werner Kruger are mobile front-rankers and also powerful scrummagers, and they hold off some tough competition from the likes of Wicus Blaauw, Brok Harris, WP Nel and Pat Cilliers to fill our propping positions.
Deon Fourie – despite being the back-up at WP to Tiaan Liebenberg (a Bok against the Baa-baas in 2007) is our bolter at hooker and he will tear around the park tackling anything that moves for the first 60 minutes before Craig Burden gets called on to do much of the same in his helter-skelter style!
The bench is all about making an impact, with Burden and Keegan Daniel masters at roaring around the park late in the game. Lambie’s ability to switch to flyhalf means that Bulls form man Stefan Watermeyer provides midfield cover, with no flyhalf warming the pine.
rugby36.com’s Uncapped XV: 15 Hennie Daniller, 14 Gerhard van den Heever, 13 Jaco Taute, 12 Patrick Lambie, 11 Lwazi Mvovo, 10 Jacques-Louis Potgieter, 9 Sarel Pretorius, 8 Duane Vermeulen, 7 Jacques Botes, 6 Deon Stegmann, 5 Anton van Zyl (captain), 4 Steven Sykes, 3 Werner Kruger, 2 Deon Fourie, 1 Coenie Oosthuizen.
Replacements: 16 Craig Burden, 17 Wicus Blaauw, 18 Adriaan Fondse, 19 Keegan Daniel, 20 Jano Vermaak, 21 Stefan Watermeyer, 22 Louis Ludik.
11 Aug 2010, 14:45 pm
We are too quick to hand out Springbok colours.
Very often, a player comes out of nowhere, has a spectacular S14 or Currie Cup and is suddenly a Springbok. Some then go on to be “good” or “great” Springboks, the rest fail. Why?
The reality is that we need to adopt a policy of developing players over a period of seasons to be Boks. Instead of after 5 or 7 good S14 games, giving out Bok colours, it would be better if players are expected to work their way through the ranks.
That means, we do not select for S14 unless the player has a solid year in the Currie Cup under their belt. For Bok selection at least 2 years in S14.
The point is that a player must establish a record of consistent improvement over a period of time rather than having a few good games.
In addition to this, there needs to be much more effort placed in to developing these players by processes such as mentoring and elite clinics, as well as a more formalised Emerging Bok set-up.
If this sort of approach would be adopted, the Boks would become unbeatable within a few years.
We are spoilt for talent in SA. We must learn from those who are not, such as Australia. They cannot afford a failure rate like we have. (Failure being meteoric rise to Bok colours and equally meteric decent into oblivion!) They invest an enormous amount in their players, and it works!
The last aspect of this is to ensure that we have sufficient numbers in each position. Take No6 FETCHER for example. We did not develope our depth properly, where’s Stegmann or Deysel, they should have been on tour with the Boks in Nov. They have paid their dues and worked their way up through the system. The situation we find ourselves in whereby we are using a No7 to be a fetcher is a symptom of mismanagement.
12 Aug 2010, 07:14 am
The Springbok team will be these guys once Bismarck and others return:
1. Steenkamp\Smit
2. Bismark
3. Smit\BJ
4. Bakkies
5. Victor
6. Brussouw
7. Smith
8. Spies
9. Pienaar
10. Morne
11. Habana
12. Wynand
13. Jaques
14. JP
15. Frans
This is really wrong. A better team could be picked from the players that are left out.
12 Aug 2010, 07:20 am
These left overs would trip the tired fat old men.
1. Beast
2. Liebenberg
3. Kruger
4. Pieterse
5. Bekker
6. Louw
7. Deysel
8. Schalk
9. Hougaard
10. Butch
11. Van Der Heever
12. Jean
13. De Jongh
14. Aplon
15. Lambie
12 Aug 2010, 15:31 pm
@mshiniwami(mshiniwami)-281: Mshini – simply reacting to your ott statement All hype,little results… You can say what you want but Pat Lambie is producing results aplenty. He looked good and calm and comfortable like a pro playing Super 14, He did damage on the Junior Boks WC attempt (one of the few I may add), and he is now jumping positions and playing all well in the Currie Cup. I dont think he´s anybodies saviour at all but with the current lack of danger options at fullback and dearth of flyhalves we can WELL do with his services. I would be inclined to play him at 15 at the present and use him as a sub for 10 perhaps until he proves himself more. But what ive seen so far has impressed me a lot.
So to say all hype little results is really a dumb statement hence my reaction – figure of speech not proclamation of intelligence. Apologies if it came out the wrong way.
Just been so many jackassed and hairbrained ideas on here of late and lack of insight into just who is playing good rugby I get a bit irate. We have the talent, we have the ability. For us to have taken a back seat as World Champs and lost so badly in the Tri Nations is a friggin disgrace. There should be no reason we´re losing right now. not by those margins. And unfortunately the signs were there on the BIL tour last year laready i´m afraid. EOYT just confirmed it. We got it right for the Tri Nations and then reverted back to dumb Souf Efrikkens again. The All Blacks play smart and thats where their strength lies. They dont have faster players or stronger or bigger or anything. They just play amazingly as a team, basic skills are solid and they have amazing rugby sense. One just has to look at the likes of Cory Jane, Mils, McCaw and Dan Carter. So if you ask me our weak link has always been the coaching staff at Bok level. I´d be inclined to let Heyneke Meyer and Alistair Coetzee pair up as head coaches. I would LOVE to see what the can achieve along with one kiwi in the mix.
If we can produce this type of rugby at Super 14 level i cannot see why we cant at National level – youtube.com/watch?v=2MVWJBtcApY from 0.40seconds onwards. Simply brilliant except for one forward pass in there.
12 Aug 2010, 19:48 pm
Interesting battle
15 P Lambie
14 F Steyn
13 J Fourie
12 J de Villiers
11 G van der Heever
10 M Steyn
09 F du Preez
08 P Spies
07 S Burger
06 H Brussow
05 V Matfield
04 B Botha
03 Smit
02 B du Plessis
01 CJ
vs
15 G Aplon
14 JP Pieterson
13 A Jacobs
12 J de Jongh
11 B Habana
10 E Jantjies
09 R January
08 A Johnson
07 S Tsibylika
06 K Floors
05 ?
04 ?
03 H Shimange
02 B Maku
01 Beast
14 Aug 2010, 14:37 pm
@Luster Johannsen(Luster Johannsen)-308: White vs Non-white BS…. dividing a team against racial lines shows what’s going on in your head..
14 Aug 2010, 14:40 pm
@Bell(Bell)-309: They do it in New Zealand, it’s called the NZ Maoris, everyone seems to love that racist side.
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