Sauls’ time is up

12 Aug 2010

GRANT BALL says that the move to look for a new SA U20 coach is the correct one.

At Saru’s executive council meeting on Wednesday one of the decisions taken was that the posts of the Baby Bok coach and his assistants would be advertised. The new coaching team will be in charge for the Junior World Championships in 2011, 2012 and 2013.

If Sauls had to re-apply and get the job again, that would mean he would have had six years at the helm. Three years has been too long without any success – just a poor return of three third-places – and it’s time for new blood in the coaching staff.

However, signs are there that Sauls will stay on, as he headed the management team of this year’s SA U18 high performance group in order to provide ‘continuity’ to the SA U20 team. The SA U18 side were lucky to beat England 23-17 last month, out-scored by three tries to one and the Boks had to rely on individual brilliance and goal-kicking rather than a constructive team performance to seal the result.

This after he was also coach of SA U18 last year, who were embarrassed 45-13 by England.

Speaking to numerous Craven Week coaches recently, they believe that the players selected for SA U20 were – with the exception of one or two omissions – the best South Africa can produce. Players who Sauls has worked with over the past three years range from Coenie Oosthuizen, Robert Ebersohn, Lionel Mapoe, Lionel Cronje, Gerhard van den Heever, Dewaldt Duvenage, Francois Hougaard, Wilton Pietersen, Pat Lambie, Wandile Mjekevu, Frik Kirsten, to Nick Koster. All of them have had success in the senior ranks, but Sauls couldn’t produce with players that would be the envy of any other nation.

Sauls’ excuses for SA U20′s repeated failures revolve around their lack of a regular competition, like a Six Nations U20 championship. But why can Australia and New Zealand, most notably the latter, perform without one? The Baby Boks toured France in February, played Eastern Province in one of their warm-ups, and Sauls had many opportunities to mould his side.

After playing in Wales in 2008 and Japan (2009), Sauls’ excuses continued as he said those conditions didn’t favour South Africans. He said Argentina 2010 was the year. But all we had was two losses against Australia and New Zealand, while Sauls’ record against those two countries and England is two wins from six in three years.

After failing to get past the semi-finals for three consecutive years (once losing heavily to England 40-21), Sauls said he was pleased his side could get a bronze in Argentina and that they could beat England for the first time in the U20 format.

That shows Sauls’ level of expectation when the Baby Boks are judging themselves against England. New Zealand have set the benchmark, more importantly by their coaching standards.

Yes the Kiwis have talented players, but they had a largely new-look squad this year with minimal players returning from last year’s (again) victorious unit. New Zealand coach Dave Rennie could not only identify talent but could blend it into a unit.

Consistent problems have come up front (troubles the coaching staff have failed to rectify over three years), while the Baby Boks have been physically out-gunned. Sauls and his supporters lament the opposition being bigger than the Baby Boks, but no one forced Sauls to pick the 1.66m 72kg Branco du Preez at inside centre against the All Blacks in this year’s semi-final, where they lost 36-7.

There was little emphasis on defence – the Baby Boks weren’t even getting dominated at the collisions, they just weren’t tackling.

When asked by this website two years ago what his response is to calls for his axing after a poor showing at the Championships, Sauls said he wasn’t concerned as he had a full-time job with the Blue Bulls. That shows what Saru should do when appointing the next head coach of the Baby Boks.

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125 Comments

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  • 51.WP_: Reply to this comment
    13 Aug 2010, 09:37 am

    @Agile T*t-Tyrant(Anairetes agilis)-40: He’s not a player, he’s a coach you wally

  • 52.Agile T*t-Tyrant: Reply to this comment
    13 Aug 2010, 10:05 am

    @WP_(WP_)-51:

    So?

    :lol:

  • 53.Agile T*t-Tyrant: Reply to this comment
    13 Aug 2010, 10:08 am

    @WP_(WP_)-51:

    Anyway JC, when you have time, just load those stats or post a helpful link please. Thanks.

  • 54.WP_: Reply to this comment
    13 Aug 2010, 11:21 am

    @Agile T*t-Tyrant(Anairetes agilis)-52: He’s terrible. that will never happen. hopefully. :)

    You calling me JC now? haha

  • 55.WP_: Reply to this comment
    13 Aug 2010, 11:31 am

    @Agile T*t-Tyrant(Anairetes agilis)-53: I dont know where you got your stats from but this is what you said:

    “JC told us that Flou made 10 “pilfers” apparently to Stegmann’s 5. Apparently arriving at the BD.

    Now, apparently Stegmann got 2x the T/O of Flou in the tackles (6 vs Flou’s 3.)

    Thus Flou made 13 T/O and Stegmann made 11 T/O.
    Right? Am I?

    Fou played about 1140 minutes, and Stegmann around 780 minutes.”

    According to the Fox Sports Website (which is australian so not biased) these are the stats from the Super 14:

    F Louw:
    Minutes played: 1131
    Tackles made: 165
    Tackles missed: 16
    Pilfers: 16
    Turnovers forced: 5

    Stegmann:
    Minutes played: 811
    Tackles made: 109
    Tackles missed: 12
    Pilfers: 6
    Turnovers forced: 3

    You do the maths as to which was more productive/effective mate!

  • 56.WP_: Reply to this comment
    13 Aug 2010, 11:35 am

    @WP_(WP_)-55: And on attack?

    Louw:

    Runs: 86
    Tackles bust: 18
    Offloads: 10
    Linebreaks: 5

    Stegmann:

    Runs: 34
    Tackles bust: 4
    Offloads: 0
    Linebreaks: 1

  • 57.iceman: Reply to this comment
    13 Aug 2010, 11:50 am

    To me the bigger problem is the selections that are made and the conditioning and fitness levels of the players.

    It always appears to me as if there men are playing against boys with the boys being us.

    Our youth are not being developed as well as the other countries any more and maybe that’s where they should be concentrating efforts. And of cause selecting the very best players in every position regardless of race would also be a great help.

  • 58.Agile T*t-Tyrant: Reply to this comment
    13 Aug 2010, 12:31 pm

    @WP_(WP_)-55:
    @WP_(WP_)-56:

    Provide the link please. (a helpful one)

    First of all, both us know that’s not correct.

    It isn’t what you initially posted a couple of months ago,

    and lastly, 1 linebreak (for example)?!?! You’ve got to be kidding. You telling me you didn’t even watch the games.

    This tells me it’s one of those where they can’t even pin the positions and minutes, or you “edited” it yourself.

    Besides, this doesn’t even agree at all with ruggastats.com or the Bulls’ stats. (So post the damn link)

    109 tackles?!? :lol: Comeon JC.

  • 59.Agile T*t-Tyrant: Reply to this comment
    13 Aug 2010, 12:37 pm

    @WP_(WP_)-56:

    Let’s send an e-mail to ruggastats.com telling them there stats are bullshit and we should all rather use the Aussies’ stats…

    (and the Bulls union too)

  • 60.WP_: Reply to this comment
    13 Aug 2010, 12:38 pm

    @Agile T*t-Tyrant(Anairetes agilis)-58: They are not my stats, there are provided on the Fox Sports website.

    They’re on the Fantasy rugby section: s14fantasy (dot)foxsports (dot) com (dot) au/M/home (dot) mc

    you have to join the game to see them. Go ahead, you’ll see the stats I put up…

    What’s wrong with 109 tackles?

  • 61.WP_: Reply to this comment
    13 Aug 2010, 12:39 pm

    @Agile T*t-Tyrant(Anairetes agilis)-60: Well what are the figures for the season from ruggastats big mouth

  • 62.Agile T*t-Tyrant: Reply to this comment
    13 Aug 2010, 12:42 pm

    @WP_(WP_)-55:

    According to the “amateurs” at ruggastats for example, in defence:

    Stegmann: 123 tackles; 42 assists; missed 10
    Louw: 163 tackles; 29 assists; and missed 17

    just the forced T/O:

    Stegmann: 6
    Louw: 3

  • 63.Agile T*t-Tyrant: Reply to this comment
    13 Aug 2010, 12:43 pm

    @WP_(WP_)-60:

    Ja, I agree: “Fantasy Rugby”… :roll:

  • 64.WP_: Reply to this comment
    13 Aug 2010, 12:44 pm

    @Agile T*t-Tyrant(Anairetes agilis)-63: What defines a turnover?

    Clearly Rugga stats and Fox are diffenrent.

    Remebering, these Fox stats are the ones they put on the tv during the games, not some amateur site :lol:

  • 65.WP_: Reply to this comment
    13 Aug 2010, 12:45 pm

    @Agile T*t-Tyrant(Anairetes agilis)-64: The stats are collected from the official Fox statisticians…

  • 66.WP_: Reply to this comment
    13 Aug 2010, 12:47 pm

    @Agile T*t-Tyrant(Anairetes agilis)-64: gotta run.

  • 67.Agile T*t-Tyrant: Reply to this comment
    13 Aug 2010, 12:48 pm

    @WP_(WP_)-60:

    Tackle efficiency;

    Steg: 93%
    Flou: 91%

    linebreaks, carries, offloads, meters gained, meters per carry

    Steg: 3breaks (8%), 36 carries, 1 OL, 143m, 4meters per carry.
    Louw: 9breaks (9%), 94 carries, 12 OL, 558m, 6meters per carry.

  • 68.Agile T*t-Tyrant: Reply to this comment
    13 Aug 2010, 12:48 pm

    @WP_(WP_)-64:

    JA, like the weights “put on the TV during games”…

  • 69.Agile T*t-Tyrant: Reply to this comment
    13 Aug 2010, 12:50 pm

    @WP_(WP_)-65:

    Leave that Fantasy Rugby bullshit and give us “Statscentre’s” Verusco stats JC.

    Doesn’t paint that great a picture of Francois Louw at all.
    Stegmann the better stealer and the so-called “pilfer” stats are wrong too.

  • 70.Agile T*t-Tyrant: Reply to this comment
    13 Aug 2010, 12:50 pm

    @WP_(WP_)-66:

    Ag, really?

  • 71.Agile T*t-Tyrant: Reply to this comment
    13 Aug 2010, 12:51 pm

    @WP_(WP_)-65:

    Incorrect.

  • 72.Agile T*t-Tyrant: Reply to this comment
    13 Aug 2010, 12:53 pm

    @WP_(WP_)-66:

    Bloody inconvenient…

  • 73.Frankly speaking: Reply to this comment
    13 Aug 2010, 12:56 pm

    If anyone is in need of some comic relief, go to the sharks website->then to the player profiles and scroll down to Lionel Mapoe’s profile…LOL :)

  • 74.WP_: Reply to this comment
    13 Aug 2010, 14:04 pm

    @Agile T*t-Tyrant(Anairetes agilis)-68: Thats BS, you cant just say that my stats are wrong. You stats are wrong.

    Mine are from a much more credible source. Anyway, if we cant even agree on the stats, there’s no point in continuing this discussion. Difference of opinion, but my opinion is backed up by the national selectors on a player that isnt a quota, so its not like im saying Ricky Januarie is better than about another 7 halfbacks in the country. Cheers

  • 75.Agile T*t-Tyrant: Reply to this comment
    13 Aug 2010, 14:15 pm

    @WP_(WP_)-74:

    Kuiken seun, I already told you about the national selectors whether it be a POC or not. Just convenient that it fits you.

    Why don’t you put a poll up that asks:
    “which stats do you think is more credible:
    *Verusco
    *Aussie Fanstasy Rugby”

    Ja….

  • 76.WP_: Reply to this comment
    13 Aug 2010, 18:00 pm

    It’s Fox Sports chop. the official rugby broadcaster in Australia.

    And you bring your kiwi veruca whatever. :lol:

    Still enjoy losing tomorrow and your trophy this year

  • 77.Agile T*t-Tyrant: Reply to this comment
    13 Aug 2010, 18:08 pm

    @WP_(WP_)-76:

    Yeah, I know what you meant boetie.
    (You gave me the link two months ago, remember?)

  • 78.Agile T*t-Tyrant: Reply to this comment
    13 Aug 2010, 18:11 pm

    @WP_(WP_)-76:

    But there still can’t be such vast discrepancies in the rugby stats no matter where they’re from.

    …Unless you edited them yourself.

  • 79.Heavens Game: Reply to this comment
    13 Aug 2010, 18:18 pm

    @Agile T*t-Tyrant(Anairetes agilis)-67: If those are averages per game of total over a season (S14?)then those stats imply Flo is a more productive player…

  • 80.Heavens Game: Reply to this comment
    13 Aug 2010, 18:18 pm

    @Heavens Game(Heavens Game)-79: or total

  • 81.Agile T*t-Tyrant: Reply to this comment
    13 Aug 2010, 18:21 pm

    @Heavens Game(Heavens Game)-79:

    It’s a season total…do you want he breakdown stats to see who was “productive”?

  • 82.Heavens Game: Reply to this comment
    13 Aug 2010, 18:23 pm

    @Agile T*t-Tyrant(Anairetes agilis)-81: Give it – lets see the “productivity” stats

  • 83.Agile T*t-Tyrant: Reply to this comment
    13 Aug 2010, 18:23 pm

    @Heavens Game(Heavens Game)-79:

    Bear in mind Flou was playing at 7. He obviously has the contact stats.

  • 84.Agile T*t-Tyrant: Reply to this comment
    13 Aug 2010, 18:24 pm

    @Heavens Game(Heavens Game)-82:

    Comin’ up….

  • 85.Agile T*t-Tyrant: Reply to this comment
    13 Aug 2010, 18:27 pm

    BD (Attack)

    aoo ; cleans/match ; /minute ; % of teams total ; ave%/min/match of teams:

    Stegmann: 297 21.21 0.384 10.9% 16%
    Flou: 206 13.7 0.184 7.7% 8.2%

    ….on to the others…..

  • 86.Heavens Game: Reply to this comment
    13 Aug 2010, 18:27 pm

    @Agile T*t-Tyrant(Anairetes agilis)-83: Is this S14 from Verusco?

  • 87.Agile T*t-Tyrant: Reply to this comment
    13 Aug 2010, 18:28 pm

    aoo=ooa though (those that count amongst the cleaners to the ruck)

  • 88.Agile T*t-Tyrant: Reply to this comment
    13 Aug 2010, 18:29 pm

    @Heavens Game(Heavens Game)-86:

    Apparently.

    it looks a little cluttered, let me try:

    Stegmann: 297…….21.21…… 0.384…… 10.9%……. 16%
    Flou: 206……… 13.7……… 0.184……. 7.7%…….. 8.2%

  • 89.Agile T*t-Tyrant: Reply to this comment
    13 Aug 2010, 18:34 pm

    Defence

    (using the same key as in 85 just defence)

    Stegmann: 130………… 9.3……….. 0.168……….. 13% ………. 19%
    Flou: 165 ………… 11 …….. 0.144 …….. 16.5% …………17%

    Penalties:

    Penalties ; /match ; /minute:

    A writer try to make a category for penalties/BD and one including tackles and assists, since that’s where most of the penalties were conceded and where the focus was anyway. But that’s a bullshit stat, unless he can remove those conceded in other areas, it might have merit etc.

    Stegmann: 19……… 1.35 …………(19/773) =0.0245
    Flou: 21……… 1.4 ……….(21/1140) = 0.0184

  • 90.Heavens Game: Reply to this comment
    13 Aug 2010, 18:37 pm

    @Agile T*t-Tyrant(Anairetes agilis)-88:

    ……….Louw Francois Stegmann Deon
    Sum of Assist 51% 49%
    Sum of Forced_Turnovers 43% 57%
    Sum of Tackles_made 65% 35%
    Sum of Tackles_Missed 63% 37%
    Sum of Ball_Carries 80% 20%
    Sum of Line_Breaks 89% 11%
    Sum of Offloads 100% 0%
    Sum of Overall_Gainline%66% 34%
    Sum of Metres_Gained 85% 15%
    Sum of Total_Passes 79% 21%
    Sum of Playmaker_Pass 86% 14%
    Sum of Handle_Count 72% 28%
    Sum of Own _Team_OOA_1st3_Attack 52% 48%
    Sum of Own _Team_OOA_1st3_Defence 61% 39%

    These are my “secret” stats of them both with “normalised” figures – i.e. comparing both as a fraction of 1 (easy to compare)

  • 91.Heavens Game: Reply to this comment
    13 Aug 2010, 18:39 pm

    @Heavens Game(Heavens Game)-90: Excuse the “sum as” – copy and paste from a pivot

  • 92.Agile T*t-Tyrant: Reply to this comment
    13 Aug 2010, 18:40 pm

    @Heavens Game(Heavens Game)-79:

    Anyway I don’t see the problem with those- the roles were quite different, and Flou made 6m per carry to Stegmann’s 4.

    And broke the defence 9.5% of his carries to Steggies’ 8.3% Not much in it. Flou had similar handle counts which is directly related to this:

    Passes ; handles ; handling errors ; handling errors per count ; “forced” and unforced errors ; per match ; per minute:

    Stegmann:38 and 101…. 8…….. 0.57…. 0.079…. 7.9%…7… 0.5… 0.009

    Flou:98 and 184…. 21……… 1.4…….. 0.114……11.4%……13….. 0.87 ……. 0.0114

    So Stegmann was actually a neater player that conceded a less amount of errors etc.

  • 93.Agile T*t-Tyrant: Reply to this comment
    13 Aug 2010, 18:43 pm

    @Heavens Game(Heavens Game)-90:

    The normalization doesn’t work. Where are you totals from?

  • 94.Agile T*t-Tyrant: Reply to this comment
    13 Aug 2010, 18:44 pm

    @Heavens Game(Heavens Game)-90:

    Stegmann had more assists and so-called OOA on attack, so how does your stats not reflect this for example?

  • 95.Agile T*t-Tyrant: Reply to this comment
    13 Aug 2010, 18:46 pm

    @Heavens Game(Heavens Game)-91:

    It’s difficult to compare stats taken out of the context of two different teams…..much less amalgamate them and attempt to normalize.

    You need a much more descriptive method, and at the very least something of a spreadsheet….

  • 96.Agile T*t-Tyrant: Reply to this comment
    13 Aug 2010, 18:48 pm

    Otherwise the long-winded way on here is to painstakingly go through each category provided and lay it out post-by-post, so that we can make better sense of it all.

    Anyway, in short, the stats show Flou was only “better” in the ball carrying department.

  • 97.Agile T*t-Tyrant: Reply to this comment
    13 Aug 2010, 18:49 pm

    HG?

  • 98.Heavens Game: Reply to this comment
    13 Aug 2010, 18:51 pm

    @Agile T*t-Tyrant(Anairetes agilis)-88:

    Non-”normalised”

    Louw Francois Stegmann Deon
    Sum of Assist 28 27
    Sum of Forced_Turnovers 3 4
    Sum of Tackles_made 156 85
    Sum of Tackles_Missed 17 10
    Sum of Ball_Carries 84 21
    Sum of Line_Breaks 8 1
    Sum of Offloads 11 0
    Average of Overall_Gainline% 73 66
    Sum of Metres_Gained 495 85
    Sum of Total_Passes 92 24
    Sum of Playmaker_Pass 6 1
    Sum of Handle_Count 170 66
    Sum of Own _Team_OOA_1st3_Attack 191 176
    Sum of Own _Team_OOA_1st3_Defence 151 95

  • 99.Heavens Game: Reply to this comment
    13 Aug 2010, 18:52 pm

    @Agile T*t-Tyrant(Anairetes agilis)-93: Verusco – all stats for all matches of the S14, for all players

  • 100.Agile T*t-Tyrant: Reply to this comment
    13 Aug 2010, 18:55 pm

    @Heavens Game(Heavens Game)-98:

    Hangon a moment- I’ll show you mine…

    These disagree quite widely. I got them from ruggastats.

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